#“you're ableist if you dislike this character” | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

anachronistic-falsehood · 2 months

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Hi Weird Question, but how many followers would you ballpark say you have gotten from posting about qsmp?

I ask this because Ive been on tumblr for a LONG while, I have run multiple fandom blogs and this is the worst follow to notes ratio I have ever gotten for a blog (it is relativity new as well though). I don't want to sound weird and complain about the number of followers I have, but of the 523 posts in my blog, 38 are original posts. I have 236 notes total from those 38. and zero followers. compared to when one of my other blogs was at this size I would have somewhere of a ballpark of 10ish especially with a few posts chilling way above the average of 6 notes

I feel like this could be an issue much like the issue pertaining to people not reblogging stuff, but also I may need to reevaluate the way im interacting with people on this site >_<.

that's kind of a hard question bc i was gaining followers from the trigun fandom very shortly before i started posting about qsmp, so there was a period of overlap, but i guess when i switched to posting primarily about qsmp i would say i've gained approx. 350-400 followers. i typically get anywhere between 100-1000 notes on any qsmp post i make (excluding liveblogging) and i am apparently a more popular blog because i write fanfiction and make analysis posts on occasion which has made me weirdly well known in some places of the fandom and that is terrifying i hate being perceived HELP

ANYWAY i think a better blog to use as an example would be when i had to use a new blog because this one was unfairly flagged for a couple weeks. i used a previously unused sideblog to liveblog and make posts on since posts on my main wouldn't show up in the main tags. i typically got a fair amount of notes, anywhere between 50 to 200 on each post, but i only ended up with maybe 4 or 5 followers on that blog (excluding mutuals i had advised to follow that blog as a backup in case my main went down forever [which it didn't thank fuck]).

honestly?? i assume the lack of following is because a lot of people in this fandom are very wary. qsmpblr likes to hail itself as better than twitter (and it is in some respects for sure, i'm not denying that), but it feels like everyone in this fandom has some kind of Opinion on Something at all times. there's always something to complain about or criticize about anything, whether it be the admins, an event, another cc's character, a cc themself, etc etc. if you follow a person you will be subjected to all of their opinions on every single issue that pops up, even if it's just a dismissal of whatever current discourse is making its way through the tag (and i'm guilty of this myself sometimes, i'm no angel here). there is not a single day that goes by without something negative crossing my dash regarding something that's going on with the smp. doesn't matter what it is, someone will have something to say about some kind of issue no matter what, and that shit gets tiring. sometimes it's better not to follow people lest you find yourself bombarded with opinions. that way you can still scroll your dash without worrying about seeing untagged discourse and infighting and criticism.

#idk that's just. what i think i guess???#i get tired seeing all the negativity on my dash sometimes #sometimes i just wanna scroll without being subjected to #“this character is being mean to my favourite character and i hate that cc is doing that”#“this character doesn't understand this character and the cc ALWAYS plays characters like that i think he's actually an asshole”#“you're ableist if you dislike this character”#it's just. there's always a fucking ISSUE with SOMETHING and it drives me up the wall #to the point where i have almost unfollowed people over it #qsmp

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dreampearls · 3 months

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kinda the curse of having collei as a favorite character means that when i see genuine hate for her more often than not its literally 100% completely justified and even though i feel personally affronted reading their reasonings is just like..... well.......... okay Yeah........................

#this doesnt actually happen often its happened maybe once or twice but when it does happen. im just forced to go Yeah you're right #''i dont give a fuck about dendro amber'' <- fighting the urge to beat you with a stick #but mannnnnnnnnnn youre ultimately not wrong #the game does try to push her as dendro amber to the detriment of her character #because at the end of the day she is a product #i think ive said this before but i actually somewhat hated collei when i first played through the sumeru archon quest #just because she embodied so many misogynistic and ableist writing tropes i despise #and it sucks but this is a 10000% valid reason to not care about or even dislike her as a character

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ablednt · 1 year

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Thinking about how "portraying cures to disabilities/illnesses as being a reward for good behavior, universally desirable, or have more moral and ethical weight than living with disability is ableist" rapidly and aggressively became "if your disabled characters' conditions change in any way for the better you're erasing disabilities and are ableist" and going a little bit insane

Like y'all the curing disabilities trope is about impractical deus ex machina fixes that are utilized just because the reality of being disabled is viewed as a tragedy. Magically making people sighted or hearing, giving paralyzed people the ability to walk and having them ditch their wheelchairs, or benevolently bestowing missing or restoring parts (often wings) with no regard to how it might work in a realistic (for the setting) scenario. That's it.

The way people act like mobility aids are the only valid way to work with disability in fiction is just so irritating. Like did you forget implants, prosthetics, transplants, medications, and surgeries all exist IRL? None of those things make someone abled and disabled people are not all visibly disabled at any point in time.

It's just so limiting to me and I say that as someone who adores mobility aids both IRL and in fiction. Sorry disabled characters can be nuanced i fucking guess

#ask to tag #big /nbh on this #i just keep thinking abt twitter diskhorse i saw once and am going insane #'this character who is missing a whole magical organ and had to utilize a magical implant to literally not die is erasing disability cause #he can do limited amounts of magic afterwards' and 'this character has an aid that lets them see clearly but is still visibly blind when #not using that aid is ableist magic negates disability' in what world tho #LIKE IM NOT SAYING PPL CAN'T DISLIKE STUFF LIKE THIS #you don't have to personally feel seen or represented and you're free to criticize #but the post i saw was being like !!!! call to action!!! if ur abled you need to fckn CANCEL THIS MEDIA its so horribly ableist fuck you #(<- dramatization the post was annoying but mostly normal nonsense) and its like #uhoh looks like somebody forgot that other disabled people than them exist lmao

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flesh-and-silk · 2 years

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I wish all dense people especially here and on TikTok to understand that it's alright to dislike a character's vibes/personality/whatever. What ISN'T alright is to ignore a character's complexity and lore and treat them like an inherently cruel animal or a joke just because they're white/straight/a man/whatever.

When you're all "anti" a character that shows clear and very accurate symptoms of mental illness, you're being dehumanizing of people that struggle with such things.

Also, no, I'm not saying that mental illness can excuse being an asshole. I'm saying that no one's born "evil" and y'all need to understand it is possible to love someone AND hold them accountable for their actions at the same time.

How about not being such an ableist?

Kindly, a disabled person.

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angorwhosebabyisthis · 2 months

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tfw you keep trying to write up a concise Introduction of a Complex and Interesting Concept You Think About a Lot, getting distracted by an infodumping derail about The Breadth of the Subject, and running out of steam and having to start over ashdndmfb

#whosebaby talks #me waving a sign over my head: DISLIKING CHARACTERS IS A HIGHLY NUANCED AND PERSONAL THING #AND EXPLORING THAT AND LEARNING WHAT YOU'RE SENSITIVE TO AND COMPARING NOTES LEADS TO RICH ANALYSIS #disliking a character can be a geiger counter for certain themes and tropes and narrative devices; shitty or otherwise #and it's a highly personalized one between people and that's okay #and your ability to notice and analyze things doesn't end with what personally presses your buttons #in fact it's highly important to learn to recognize that you *won't* always have a visceral reaction to shitty things worth talking about!#and you can learn so so so many things from 'my dislike of something in fiction is not necessarily petty or irrational'#'and being colored by my personal feelings and experiences does not make it useless data; nor mean it should be treated as unimportant'#'and knee-jerk personal emotion not being objective or universal =/= *any* opinion i might have about fiction is subjective'#'especially if it's even slightly informed *by* an emotional reaction'#'my being personally triggered by a rape scene when someone else isn't does not mean it's up for debate whether it's a depiction of rape'#because fuck that shit running into hell #'but the emotional reaction itself *isn't* objective or universal; and is not synonymous with having an opinion'#'and that makes for both a rich tool of storytelling and analysis; and a check on my own potential assholery as well as other people's'#and i think this approach and its process are *critically important*#for addressing and deconstructing misogynistic/racist/ableist/fatphobic/anti-survivor/etc trends #in who fandoms Just So Happen to Dislike En Masse compared to everyone else; and why #i could go on and on and on it's so interesting and imo such an important principle to go by #gnaws on a table edge about it

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cookie-waffle · 1 year

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People disliking botw/totk zelink is not what bothers me. It’s more the REASONS a lot of people have for disliking it.

And weirdly, a lot of it is straight up just fandom sexism and ableism?

-Completely ignoring very important character development and subtext all because "Zelda was mean that one time"

-Hating Zelda simply because they prefer shipping Link with Sidon

- Completely ignoring the fact that Zelda is HEAVILY implied to have depression and Link literally has a mental illness that makes him shut down and appear “robotic”. The devs even straight up confirmed that both of them were struggling with their mental health pre-calamity. Link isn't showing any emotion because he dislikes Zelda. He has an anxiety disorder that exists in the real world that real people have to struggle with. And Zelda didn't slightly raise her voice that ONE time because she's nasty and mean. She was a 16 yr old who was emotionally and physiclaly abused her entire life and was under an unimagineable amount of pressure. But GOD FORBID a female character show any sign of mental illness right? God forbid a woman in a video game has relatistic reactions to things and isn't "breasting boobaly" throughout the duration of the story.

If you dislike the ship because you're aro or because you just prefer them to be platonic, sure, that's perfectly fine. But you don't gotta be sexist or ableist about it.

#zelink #Zelda was literally the ONLY person Link would speak to. That alone pretty kuch makes it canon that they are at least close friends #totk #botw

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bogunicorn · 8 months

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once again annoyed at how fanfic is treated like "content" or a product provided to a community rather than a thing people make in their free time. if at any point your solution to your fandom woes is "strangers who don't even know i exist should write pairings or subject matter that i want to read instead of a popular pairing i don't like that they clearly do like", then you need to find a different problem to have. these strangers making stuff for fun owe you, random stranger, fuck-nothing, even if the thing they like is Popular M/F Ship #459 and the thing you like is a same-sex ship with an unfairly maligned female character.

it does suck when the majority doesn't share your preferences, especially when it feels like you end up sifting through many entries of things you don't like or outright hate to see if there's stuff you like. but that doesn't mean that people writing the thing you dislike are being mean to you, or making your life harder, or actively doing anything wrong. it's just an annoying thing you have to live through. you being uncomfortable, inconvenienced, annoyed, or put upon doesn't necessarily mean another person has done anything to you, especially not harm.

and to the "writing is hard! don't suggest 'write it yourself' as a solution because writing is hard and a skill and suggesting i should write things myself is ableist!" crowd, i say: get fucking for real. no writer is obligated to cater to you because you're a bad writer yourself. you sound like those people on r/choosingbeggars who try to bully illustrators into free commissions because they can't draw very well themselves. grow the fuck up.

#bog post #stay salty #fandom bs #seeing this in bg3 after what feels like a lifetime of DA bullshit #people aren't doing you harm by writing astarion ships instead of the morally superior ships you like #if they want to write about astarion instead of whomever #then leave them alone

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etoilesbienne · 5 months

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the "qbbh deserves it bc consequences" people remind me of when i saw wayyyyy too many people calling the happy pills arc karma for forever like no actually we don't need to insist that this is just punishment stop thinking everything is an irredeemable sin get your christian morality out of my minecraft roleplay

also the idea of severe bodily injury/illness/disability as punishment for sin is a very awful one i wish people would stop contributing to, again looping back to christian morality bullshit

it makes me crazy to be honest LOL like you're so right with the weird ableism punishment angle + that ableist ass take of "oh he's just faking it anyway" like it's definitely worse to pretend a disabled character isn't disabled in order to justify the dislike of them. qsmp fandom really gets on my nerves in its treatment of disability sometimes.

and then like not only what you said but like with purgatory in particular w/ people calling for consequences, everyone on every team had in character consequences and reasonings for all behaviors in purgatory? literally like 90% of characters were hypocrites and awful to each other during purgatory and every character responded in kind?

like people were sitting calling for character consequences. when they'd already faced consequences. they just didnt get it in a way that it happened in their pov. like do you guys want consequences or do you want your fav to get revenge and do nothing else but seek revenge. because it sounds a lot more like the latter. plus the content made for the character receiving that revenge repeatedly is just miserable to watch in my experience. ig "an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind" feels especially relevant in qsmp fandom rn. its so crazily christian punitive it makes me NUTS.

though i am enjoying bbh's current arc i'm having a great time seeing him act this and it far outweighs the fandom's behavior in my enjoyment at least

#asks

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rjalker · 9 months

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Fandoms will see a cannonically, explicitly Queer character who represents multiple of the most stigmatized groups within the Queer community and will go "okay, but what if I erase all of these traits I dislike to make ~them~ more palatable for me?"

And then act shocked when the minorities who are being purposefully erased are angry about this.

Fandom will see a characters who is canonically nonbinary, uses it/its pronouns, is aroace and viscerally disgusted by the thought of being in any kind of relationship, and hates being touched, and go

"Oooh! But ~they~ would be better if ~they~ didn't use those disgusting pronouns! Nonbinary people all use they/them! If you use it/its pronouns you're disgusting. This character uses they/them pronouns now because they're real pronouns!!!! "Ooh and don't you think ~they'd~ be so much better if ~they~ were horny for this brown man I am whitewashing for the sake of shipping with this aroace character, who I am also whitewashing for the sake of shipping.

"Oooooooooh but noo you know what'd be even better? O: if this character was a binary trans woman!!! Or a binary trans man!!!!! Because nonbinary people are gross and not real anyways :)

"Oh this blatantly autistic character explicitly says it hates being touched and only touches people in life or death situations when the literal only other option is letting them die?

"Well silly billy, don't you know that if you don't want to be touched there's something deeply, deeply wrong with you that you need to fix? I'm not being ableist by saying this, though! Really, when you think about it, you're the one who's ableist because you don't want this character's touch aversion to be healed by the power of friendship/sex/romance!!!!"

Fandom will literally see a character whose traits are demonized by all of society and go "okay but hear me out what if I demonize these Queer and disabled traits and remove everything that makes this character who it is so that it's less repulsive to me as someone whose identities are more socially accepted?"

And then insist that they're totally progressive and Queer friendly and welcoming to minorities and such a fun, safe, great fandom to hang out in.

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sagesilentfire · 25 days

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Autistic Toffee, thoughts?

I mean I did make this image:

But yeah, he's super fucking autistic. Like me. Canonically: (warning: references to self-harm and also oversharing my weird experiences as a chronic autism-haver)

Gets social skills enough to be manipulative about it and understand what people will do, does not get them enough to not creep out people who already are looking for an excuse to dislike him.

Like every behavior the creators gave him to make him creepy and evil just read as autistic person trying to mask to me.

Cold and emotionless? Bro has a flat affect and it just clashes with the overemotional rest of the show.

Low empathy? Autistic, and he does have his own kind of empathy, he just, like a lot of autistic people, expresses it weirdly. And seriously, the idea that a) Normative, neurotypical empathy is the only sign of good moral character and b) that Toffee lacks any version of empathy in general because he doesn't seem to care when unjust rulers or bootlicking toadies get their due, is really ableist and can go die now.

Monotone voice? Flat affect, and probably over-correcting on controlling his tone of voice too. Remember he's in Socialization Mode every time we see him, or Dealing With Mewmans Mode, which is even more tense. I bet he can and will emote via voice when alone or with people he trusts. Heck, he does it in Meteora's Lesson, when he's with the other septarians.

Ulterior motives? When you're autistic, you know that everyone has ulterior motives you can't hope to understand, including other autistic people. It's fine.

I actually headcanon he's repressed a lot of his sensory issues. I have a few that are really annoying, but I don't have another option if I want to appear in polite society and have to force myself to live with them even though they make me want to vomit, so I can see him actively choosing to repress emotional reactions to things.

He gets overwhelmed more often than you'd expect. People just don't notice, because his reaction is always to freeze up and go silent – a shutdown, the "flight and/or freeze" part of the autistic experience. This is from my own personal experience: when overwhelmed I'm either yelling and angry (around people I know and trust enough to get mad at without them hurting me) or hiding and silently self-harming (around people I don't know or trust). (When I get overwhelmed in a place I feel comfortable but don't know anyone there, I tend to get weird in public looking for someone to feel less bad with. We don't talk about those times.)

I think he was close to a shutdown during Mewnipendence Day when he saw that stupid play Star put on.

Definitely doing a shutdown after he couldn't rescue Star. Probably exiting the scene as fast as possible to go pull out some scales (fun, risk-free self-harm! warning: only septarians can do this. you will bleed if you don't have a healing factor. be safe and maybe don't self--harm it's bad for you), grit his teeth, and go find a way to rescue Star. And also send an army to take over Butterfly Castle while the wand was out. Star would be alive to learn to live with not being a princess.

Doesn't *always* know what to say. Can convince people to do things easily, but has no idea how to help other people with their emotions. His autistic ass could never be a therapist.

And then there's SAMATFOE Toffee, who has some extra Problems:

Sílthéy and Toffee work together to ensure that Toffee is as immune as possible to emotional leverage. Do anything to them, especially when they're in Business Mode, and Toffee will just sigh, shake their head, and refuse to take the bait. They may have PTSD and Autism, but have you considered: they also have severe emotional repression!

However, when they do crack, it's really bad, and potentially really dangerous. They still freeze and flee, but due to... circumstances, they could be as much of a magical superweapon as the wand, but in a completely uncontrollable way. Unlike the Butterflys, they do not make a habit of flirting with destroying the world, so instead they shove down their feelings and get their ass to therapy.

And then when their therapist advocates for expressing their emotions healthily, they go get a new therapist, probably a cognitive behavioral therapist or something (I'm JOKING, CBT works for people who are not me! It's a perfectly fine method of brain-helping, it's just my default punching bag. I'm more of an Internal Family Systems guy myself).

Rasticore is a big help. He helps them express medium amounts of emotion healthily and without having a complete (magi-nuclear) meltdown. They help him with his own meltdowns, because everyone is autistic in my world except for Mina. Rasticore finds their calm grounding.

#svtfoe #samatfoe #svtfoe rewrite #star vs the forces of evil #queue queue #my posts #about me #(because it's discussing my own symptoms)#toffee of septarsis #self harm #actuallyautistic

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oscconfessions · 2 months

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Small rant so if you like cabby maybe do not read

I genuinely do not like that cabinet and the fact that her fanbase is so toxic sometimes. I understand why she won, but I don't necessarily think she deserved it. Call me biased because I am indeed a TestTube fan, but her character development felt so rushed in my opinion. I do not hate Cabby because "I'm ableist" or "don't understand her" I just DON'T LIKE HER. Do I think TestTube was a bit harsh? Yes. Although, why was anyone surprised??? Was Hatching The Plan NOT confirmation for people that TestTube CARES about somebody?? Cabby isn't an angel, and the fanbase knows it but brushes everything she did as "she didn't mean to" and sometimes it's, really annoying. TestTube had the right to be upset at her, especially when she mentioned Little Shimmers/The Egg, that's just bringing up someone's bad past in an argument. I also don't think TestTube is ableist?? How did we end up at that conclusion?? She didn't like Cabby for her personality and what she did to Fan, not what she looked like? I don't remember if TestTube ever mentioned the files being bad or anything, but even if she did, I'm not entirely sure that was meant as ableism. Is it still bad even if she didn't know? I'm sure it is.

Your opinion on Cabby is yours. I don't care unless you're going to like behead someone for liking TestTube or just disliking Cabby/nm

#confession #/ii #/ii/cabby #cabby neg

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grimeyslimer · 5 months

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Stop misusing the words sexism and misogyny.

People in this fandom who misuse the words misogyny and sexism and label it as literally anything they don't like are the reason it's not taken seriously here. The same can be said for abuse. Abuse is a cycle, and half of y'all who label that are purposely misusing the word because you're either uneducated or you're just being arrogant.

Sexism, in short, is discrimination, stereotyping, and/or prejudice against a certain gender. (usually women), but this can still be directed toward men. Misogyny is extreme hatred toward women to keep women at a lower social status than men, thus maintaining the social roles of patriarchy.

And does that happen in the series? No, it doesn't. At least to my knowledge, there's very few who seem to be misogynistic. DoTC is the only arc where I can clearly remember there being blatant misogyny. And fatphobia. And leafpool's situation, but that seems more like exploitation than misogyny. The series honestly seems more ableist than hateful toward women. Multiple female characters have been given powerful roles. Ex Bluestar,Doestar,Tall Shadow,Wind Runner,Yellowfang,Leafpool, Mothflight, Squirrelstar, and Tawnypelt (briefly leader, I think)

The misogyny honestly comes more from the fandom than anything else. And cats like SF or Maplesahde are not a good example. People have a valid reason for their hatred for them and give valid arguments when they're saying that those characters aren't innocent or victims of something. It's just that you people are too much of an actual asshole to see them, or you can't argue against them. These people provide book evidence yet you still refuse to see it for what it is.

They aren't sexist or misogynist for hating them. Everyone is entitled to disliking or liking whatever cat they want. And by your own logic, you are sexist if you hate another male/female character. Now, one example I will give of sexism is directed toward Ferncloud. saying that she needs to be killed off because all she did in her life was "be a baby machine". There was nothing wrong with her, and she was living perfectly fine. She was happy with her life.

Another example of misogyny is Spottedleaf. But not for the reason you think. Canonically, she is a pedo; it was revealed in Spottedleaf's honest answer, which, to my knowledge, is not retconned. But the point is that people think that because she was preyed on, it's okay, or that it doesn't matter that she liked Firepaw as an apprentice. It's misogynistic because you're watering her down to the point of literal infantilization and justifying her attraction to a barely pubescent child.

That's misogy. Stop misusing these terms if you don't know what they mean, because they just make you look like a fool. If you disagree, then block me. I don't care. Lmao

#warrior cats #wc rant #leafpool #squirrelflight #mapleshade wc #bluestar #spottedleaf #doestar #bumble wc

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shoujomangathoughts · 2 months

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Character Corner - Oushi (A Sign of Affection)

Okay so here's a series I'm introducing (cheesy name and all) for when I'd like to talk about a specific character instead of a series on a whole.

For some background context, I'd seen hype around this manga and then again when the anime was announced and started airing, but at first wasn't in the mood for some saccharine romance. However, I was recently in the mood and gave it a shot, and I enjoyed it (enough to read all the way to the current chapter lol). Anyway, previous to this I knew a few things about the series, one of which was that a certain character (Oushi) had a quite an online hate-train. And now that I've consumed the series up to its current point... I can't say I fully understand.

Now Oushi is definitely a character who is designed to rub the audience the wrong way; he's brash and kind of an ass toward Yuki, but people make it seem like he does such terrible things to her that he's an irredeemable person.

One of the main reasons people dislike him is the fact that he comes off a bit ableist, and while I can't say I fully disagree, I also don't think he's intentionally doing this (later chapters especially make me believe this). Yes he's a bit misguided and the fact that Yuki isn't the fragile, helpless person he seems to believe she is at times is actually something that makes him insecure. In his mind, he's the person who reached out to her by learning sign language and by being relatively close to her throughout the years, which is why when Itsuomi so quickly commits to learning sign he feels threatened (especially true when he drunkenly mutters he doesn't want Itsuomi to come into "their world"). But honestly he never does anything that terrible to Yuki unless I'm forgetting something. When it comes to his view on trying to protect her, there's a more recent chapter that shows he was present when Yuki was humiliated and mocked for her voice sounding "weird" and he saw how hurt she was and noticed that she stopped using her voice after. He directly sees how someone with a disability is put down for it (mind you he says her voice was never strange to him and he seemed to admire her for earnestly trying), which I think is the root of him feeling like he wants to protect her. Throw that in the mix with his growing affection for her and his personality being that of someone who isn't aware of how to express their honest feelings, and you're on the track to get where he currently is.

I actually think because of this he's a good foil to Itsuomi. Itsuomi was raised abroad and has learned the beauty of communication and tasted the triumph of being understood despite language barriers, and between that and his love of language, he's a lot quicker to adapt and be both intrigued and inspired by someone like Yuki. Oushi on the other hand hasn't had this experience and has seen Yuki's disability be used by others as a means to hurt her, hence why they act so differently. Now I'm not saying Oushi's behavior is entirely correct, but to me it's pretty easy to see why he acts how he does. I also think it's worth mentioning that Oushi himself thinks about how he interacts with Yuki and realizes that he hasn't come across well. He's still growing as a person up to the latest chapter and gradually becoming more self aware.

I also think it's important to see how Yuki herself views Oushi. She labels him childish and thinks of him as being somewhat rude (she calls his signing 'thorny'), but she also talks about how nice she thinks he is. In a series that goes over the fact that expressions are vital to understanding someone, she hardly has a bad thing to say about Oushi. Yes she was a bit uncomfortable when he was near once, but at that point she'd suspected his feelings for her and she was in a happy relationship. She even tells him that she was grateful to have someone like him reach out to her because it helped her. She seems to think of him almost like an overbearing brother, he picks on her sure, but I can't think of him doing anything overly cruel or saying anything that really cut her deep.

I'm not sure I totally understand the hate I see for his character to be honest. The biggest reason is that he may be "ableist", but to be honest the way he treats Yuki is the way I think many people would treat someone with a disability because someone who doesn't have an impairment of a sense wouldn't entirely understand the experience of someone who does. He doesn't really make fun of her for it, more so he tries to limit her (and while he says things, he never really stops her or takes any action). As he's watched her make friends, get a boyfriend, and do things like any other college student, I think he's realized the point of view he was looking at her from was a bit misinformed. I don't know, maybe I missed something, but I think some may have missed the point of his character, especially with how heavily he contrasts Itsuomi, who is mostly perfectly adaptable and understanding. I don't know if it's the shipping of Oushi with Yuki that people don't like (for the record, it's not like I want Oushi and Yuki to date), but I think his character works well in the context of the series. Much of his behavior otherwise seems pretty standard of characters who are jealous (and honestly, like many second male leads).

I wrote this pretty quickly so feel free to disagree or let me know if I overlooked something that makes one of my points feel off, but I just wanted to give my thoughts since I saw some discourse about this character. I know it's more of a slice of life series but I really thought going into this series that he'd be quite the villain and I didn't see his character that way at all. Thanks for reading and hopefully the new format is okay! Sometimes I want to talk about a certain character despite not feeling like I have any real conversation to add about a series at large, hence why I made 'character corner'.

#shoujo #manga #anime #a sign of affection #yubisaki to renren #ashioki oushi

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transfemlogan · 1 year

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Think I could ask what you think of Logan’s character and where you think his character arc will go (or at least, where you’d like to see it go in the series)? Honestly I’m just interested in hearing you talk about him

I found this rlly far down my drafts. Somehow. Idk how it got there. But at least I don't have to rewrite the entire beginning 🧡

NOTE: I have Aphasia. It's a language disorder that affects my ability to understand and use language and it affects me both within writing and speaking. This is going to be a little incomprehensible and all over the place, but be nicies to me and feel free to ask for clarification.

This is more of a ramble, than a nice and neat analysis.

Everyone is allowed to add on :3c

ALSO SORRY TO ANYONE TAGGED</3 You're most likely tagged because I was quoting/linking a post by you.

OK. LET'S TALK ABT LOGAN (FT MY BAD SCREENSHOTS):

[ID: a screenshot of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "My True Identity!" He is smiling at the camera and making finger guns. /end ID]

This might be incomprehensible I love logan sanders. So much. Its so hard to put into words i jsut love him OK. He is perfect in every day & also a little nerd. & Beautiful. & handsome. & my babygirl.

I feel like a lot of fans treat him as if he is... like any other glasses wearing character in fiction. Byakuya Togami is the first to pop into my mind, same with Kusuo Saiki from The Disasterous Life of Saiki K, Freddy Riley from Identity V, Charles Offdensen from Metalocalypse, Kyoya Ootori from Ouran Highschool Hostclub, ETC. THERE'S A LOT OF GLASSES GUYS. (Note: these characters do not completely fit each other, but you get the point.)

The trope of "smart, unemotionless, rude/blunt character wears glasses" is something fans will shove Logan into, but the thing is Logan's character takes this trope and completely snaps it in half and throws it in the trash.

Logan is smart. He is blunt and can be the biggest asshole at times. He is """unemotional""" (stated by him).

[ID: a screenshot of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "Dealing With Intrusive Thoughts". The captions reas, "Everything is okay." /end ID]

But he's also compassionate. He is hopeful. He cares so much for the people around him and he holds so much love in his heart.

This post (link) by @intrulogical probably phrases it way better than I ever could + this post (link) by @nesushii

I think that's what makes Logan such a compelling character. He's not someone who needs to "learn how to feel" (which is an idea in fiction I dislike) (it can become a little ableist), he is someone who does feel and know he feels and feels so much all the time, but he can't express it well due to both the environment around him and how he shows his emotions.

A lot of Logan's asshole actions, I think, are less him actively trying to be rude and more him just struggling really bad.

In Moving On, he is "rude" but it's because he realises his actions were Wrong and he's trying to Fix It. He recognises Virgil's panic attack, how this room is affecting Thomas, and realises that he should have listened to Patton. But because of the affects of Patton's room and Logan's tone and phrasing, he comes off as Mean. He becomes defensive as everyone blows him off and it affects how he's trying to help everyone.

In LNTAO, Logan is confused about the entire situation. He doesn't understand why singing or puppets would help Thomas and, as Logic, it is terrifying to not Know when it's his entire job to know. His confusion turns into defensiveness, and because he already struggles to express his emotions in a way that the other sides like/understand, his confusion (& defensiveness) comes off as anger and purposeful ignorance. Which is why the sides and Thomas treat him the way they do— they're assuming he doesn't want to know. Which is entirely untrue!

I know I've talked so much already about how Logan is unintentionally autistic coded (I'm even writing an entire essay about it), but like... HE IS SO AUTISTIC CODED!!

This character that struggles with expressing himself. Who lives in an environment where he feels like he has to exist a certain way, or else he won't be accepted. Who doesn't understand tone or sarcasm or the "big picture". Who struggles with other people viewing him as some sort of unemotionless ""monster"", bexause they don't understand him. Who wants to be heard and understood.

In DWIT, he feels like he's finally doing something right. That he's on the right path. And then it immediately get snatched away in POF and then again in WTIT. And that's such an inherently autistic experience. You feel like you're masking right, you're fitting in, people are accepting and loving you— only to act "too autistic" and the false comfort you wanted is snatched away (a little more complex and nuanced than that, but you know).

He is... So Autistic and it HURTS. (He could also be viewed as neurodivergent in general— I can relate to him outside of autism, with my schizophrenia and speech impediment.)

I also relate to him heavily as a child abuse victim. I've brought it up a few times, but I haven't been able to express entirely what I mean by calling him "child abuse coded" (WHICH IS A PHRASE I KEEP GIGGLING AT).

Logan's entire situation with anger feels so... similar to my own anger issues and trauma. The way he will get so angry and explode only to calm down and realise his actions.

[ID: two screenshots of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "Working Through Intrusive Thoughts". In image one, he is pointing at someone out of frame and looking down at the floor with a confused expression. In image two, he has a hand on his tie and looks upset. /end ID]

Hurting those around you because you're hurting is something I feel like most, if not all, abuse victims struggle with. And especially with child abuse victims, I personally always feel on edge. Like I have to defend my actions 24/7 and I need to express myself perfectly or else no one will understand and I will "get in trouble" and "punished".

It reminds me so much of Logan. After he gets angry and explodes (partially due to the Orange Side, based on how the series is being shown), he immediately is confused and shameful and scared.

Logan is scared and ashamed of his own actions and is trying so hard to fix himself and not be that, not be an angry aggressive person. But it's not as simple and apologising and moving on and it's definitely much harder when those around you will not let you / don't understand fully.

ANYWAY Logan's character means so much to me as an autistic, abused guy. //slaps Logan// this guy can hold SO much trauma!

This post (link) by @orbmanson7 I think puts some of my thoughts into better words about Logan's anger and boundaries and everything (which also helps us segway into talking about his arc)

The thing with Logan's arc is that it's a little more complex than just "Logan wants to be listened to". All of the sides want to be listened to, that's the entire point of them. They all want to help Thomas.

It's not only that Logan wants to be listened to and isn't, it's also that Logan is actively listening to critiques and trying to fix and change. He is hearing and seeing that something he is doing is not helpful and is upsetting people. He wants to fix it and change and improve. But no matter what he does, nothing seems to "fix the issue"— Thomas still will not listen to him.

Logan has to unlearn this idea that he needs to constantly be improving himself, that he has to act a certain way, in order for someone to listen and understand him (AGAIN. WHY I RELATE TO HIM AS A ABUSE VICTIM). AND, the sides need to be actively changing how they are treating him. Because him unlearning this won't immediately fix the issue if the sides aren't working too.

The situation can't be fixed with a simple promise of "we will listen to you, Logan", because they've been doing that the entire series.

[ID: a screenshot of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "Working Through Intrusive Thoughts". He is holding a notebook near his chest and looks dejected. The captions read, "Another day, Logan, I promise." /end ID]

ALSO, this doesn't fall completely on the other sides. Logan still needs to work on letting himself express things and learning how to cope with his strong, intense emotions like his anger. He's lashing out at the other sides and that's not okay. He can't hurt the people he cares about because he's angry and upset (see the ending of POF before Janus reveals his name).

Which... is one of the reasons I really do not want his anger to be "caused by" the orange side. I want this to be something he is experiencing and going through, because if it's "oooh a dark side is controlling him!!" then it won't be a "Logan issue", it'll be a "dark side issue". Which is not what he OR the viewers need.

Logan needs to overcome and cope with his issues without someone inserting themselves into his arc. The more people are thrown into the mix, the more the attention is drawn away from Logan, and I think his arc is something that desperately needs to be told and focused on.

And NO . I am not a fan of "Logan is the Orange Side" theories. There's a million reasons why that's not true if you actually watch and pay attention to the series (it's a very fun AU, but falls apart in context of the actual series). (Plus I don't want him to stop being indigo.......)

I also don't want Logan's arc to end up with him "turning into a dark side" for a MULTITUDE of reasons:

The "dark sides" aren't like... an actual, genuine thing...? It's not something you can ""become"", it's something you are forced into. It is a term created by Roman to describe sides that Thomas views as inherently bad or evil. The only way for Logan to ""become"" a "dark side" is if someone, in an episode, verbally, called Logan a "dark side".

Obviously, Logan can be treated like a "dark" side. In fact, how he is being treated in the series is very similar to how Virgil was treated in seasonn 1 or how Janus is being treated, ETC. BUT I don't want him to be called a "dark side", because I feel like that brings up an entirely new conflict? Now it's not focused on them ignoring Logan, it's focused on "Logic is evil?" "Thomas views Logic as bad?".

I'm struggling really hard to explain, but I feel like it just layers the conflict and I don't want that. I don't want Logan's arc to include the dark sides in any way. I want it to be focused on him.

(HOWEVER, I don't mind the connection between Logan and the dark sides through their similarities and finding comfort each other because of it. In fact, I love it. But I am not sure how to elaborate on that and how I want their relationships to be, so I skipped over it. If someone asks later, I can try to put it in words. In short, less of the "dark sides" affecting Logan, more Logan affecting the "dark sides"? I don't know if that makes sense.)

Also, I don't trust real-life Thomas to write it well! While he is very good at writing conflict, he sucks at resolving conflict (see: Virgil's reveal as a dark side at the end of DWIT and how it's handled in ATHD). Logan becoming a "dark side" already adds more to his already conflict-filled arc, I don't want to then see it be swept under the rug or handled really badly. Logan deserves a good arc. Don't bite off more than you can chew, or whatever, leave his arc alone. Stop it. Please.

I think that's all I wanted to say?

In short: Logan is full of hope and love and compassion and is so, so autistic coded and has so much trauma. I think his arc is more complex than "not being listened to" and he has to unlearn a lot. I don't want his arc to involve the orange side/him being the orange side, or any of the dark sides, because that brings the attention away from him.

#ask #sanders sides #logan sanders #blog tags ->#essays!#IT. COUNTS. OK. EVEN THOUGH ITS RAMBLY.#logan #revys essays!#sure whatever

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hajihiko · 2 years

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listen idk how to tell you this, and please do not take the tone of this ask to be aggressive, but you have got to start questioning yourself a little more. why are all your least favorite characters the most visibly mentally ill? why are you comfortable saying a character will need several years of therapy before they are able to have friendships? i know youre going to reply to this saying like, oh, i hc other characters as mentally ill, or oh, i'm mentally ill myself - i can't possibly be ableist! and then all your followers will be like yeah ur fine we love you, but im begging you. its okay to dislike characters, but its such an obvious pattern that the ones who have visible, uncomfortable mental health problems that make them unpleasant are, mysteriously, the ones you have the least sympathy for. i do not care whether you consider yourself ableist, whether you headcanon more pleasant characters as mentally ill, whether youre mentally ill yourself - you are posting ableist things. someone doesnt need to be cured or fixed before they should be allowed to have meaningful relationships

Okay, I've read this message over a few times and have it under consideration (? I think that's the phrase).

I do think you got some information wrong, I could be mistaken but after looking through my own posts I think you might've misread something. What I *have* said (before I watched the OVA) is that I dont think Hajime and Nagito should specifically date *each other* until they get therapy / work through their problems (although I do think that, thematically, they make sense as eventual love interests). Again, hadn't watched the OVA, so I was basing it on their interactions in game only, the OVA sort of changes directions from how the game left off.

Never said anything about anyone not having meaningful relationships until they get therapy, and have actually said that a good social net (meaningful relationships, friendly or romantic) are integral to healing from traumatic events. Not saying I haven't given off a bad impression maybe or implied something, if so do tell me because it was probably not intentional and might've slipped by me, but I'm speaking from a factual search of my blog. Not something I have ever said, as far as I can see, and not something I believe anyhow.

I actually mention pretty frequently that I think Nagito (I assume this is mostly about him) is an interesting character that I like, but find complex. My least favourite characters are Hiyoko, Mahiru and Teru (sorry fans of those! I dont mean anything by it it's literally just the vibes) that's why I don't really draw them. The OVA endeared Nagito to me, which is why I've been drawing him on a friendship journey lately, so if you're assuming I don't like him that's more incorrect now than ever.

By all means if you wanna talk about this more openly in chat, I'm down (though my timezone tends to clash). I feel you've put some words in my mouth.

#I'm not saying I *havent* said something shitty somewhere but I searched my whole blog and I couldnt find typed examples of what you said #So if I did I'd need a directory for it.#Idk what else to say rly this is kind of vague and despite the disclaimer kind of aggressive #But I'm not dismissing it and am considering it. For what that's worth #I feel like considering just isnt the right word uh. Taking it seriously I guess?#Not an art #Readmore for clogging. Oh shoot should I tag this #Lmk if it needs a tag #Also this is personal grievance not a factual one so I'm not pissed about it but I DO need to express it:#Stop putting words in my mouth. 'I know what you're gonna say' you do not in fact know me that well ok

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archivalofsins · 6 months

Text

Gunsli what are you talking about this time-

Would you believe it if I said it's the use of the word "New". Because it is. Multiple people have pointed to the use of the words,

New and newly born

In Double to go see this is why there have to be more alters because Dissociative Identity Disorder forms in childhood and John is admitting that his existence is new. Not just in comments on my post but privately to me as well. This isn't a dig at that reasoning because I see how people could conclude that when they take those words at face value.

However, it is funny that these words are being taken at face value here but weren't in other instances. Personally, to me this just seems like another obtuse tactic to explain why there must be more alters and it's not just two. However, I've been assuming the worst a lot lately because of my current disposition.

So, I thought I should try to engage with this on some level of good faith. Then after doing so concluded,

"Yeah, it's still objectively a weird thing to assert and seems to mostly be rooted in the fact that people don't want there to be only two in this instance. Plus, I personally doubt if Double or Neoplasm had hard confirmed there were three alters anyone would be highlighting the line to say there were more than that."

Okay, well we can't speak on that because neither the song or voice drama hard confirmed or even alluded to the idea there were more than two alters outside of the use of variations of the word new. We can't speak on that because that didn't happen.

Yeah, I know that I was there but a good deal of people are still behaving as though either of those things did do that or will do it later.

So, I can only assume at this point the issue isn't the fact that Milgram the franchise or story is ableist, but it has garnered an ableist fan base that is projecting their own biases onto the media and blaming it for those existing in the first place. Instead of properly reflecting on themselves because that would take a level of maturity severely lacking in this space.

Something that could explain why Yamanaka keeps saying that he's really excited to have people grow older and look back on their experiences with the franchise and the prisoners' cases. In a very way. While continually poking fun at Es' immaturity within the narrative through multiple characters. What do I know though it's probably not that.

Okay, well what makes it unreasonable or come off like that? Huh? Since you're so smart.

Oh, why thank you let me explain.

Firstly,

As I said this term is used in songs before this one just as the color green is.

Harrow

"Newly born, “HARROW HARROW”. It’s ok to dislike, right? Losing it, losing it, What should I hope for."

So, it's curious to us personally why the use of the word "new" is being highlighted here to support the idea of their being more alters but not in the case above. It just makes it apparent that maybe people aren't positing this idea with the best of intentions but simply to cling onto how they wish the story to go. Which is anyway other than being about an individual with dissociative identity disorder and only two alters. Really interesting...

Kotoko literally uses this exact wording to explain the formation of a new problem or idea. The beginnings of her idea of Justice and hatred of criminals. In the same vein the term could be being used again here to describe a new problem or change of circumstances that has led to an exacerbation of a long-term undiagnosed disorder.

Unless everyone wants to apply the logic, they're using in Mikoto's case to undermine two alter representation here as well and say that Kotoko has a different personality that was born over the course of Harrow that immediately wanted to kill so they did.

Secondly,

How is it ableist?

Well, here's the base definition of ableism,

Of course, what one considers ableism one can vary from person to person.

I personally consider it anything that discriminates against an individual with a disability whether that discrimination is in their favor or not. As both can come from a place of belittlement and superiority.

I.E

"Oh, they didn't know better. You know they have x so things like that are hard for them to understand. As someone who doesn't have those sorts of issues you should be more understanding. Be the bigger person."

"Don't you know they have x- You shouldn't talk to them. They might go off at any time."

Both of these statements are ableist in my opionion because they both belittle or demonize someone based on them having a disability. There are times when the first one may be applicable. However, it is annoying for some individuals with disabilities to have themselves be treated like a child even after they are long past the age of adulthood. There's a good example of this concept in the game Pocket Mirror with the character Harpae.

One may seem helpful and even lenient, but it can be annoying and patronizing to continually assume just because someone has a disability, they are incapable of taking care of themselves or doing wrong. Pocket Mirror immediately comes to mind because it was the first game to teach me that this behavior of over helping just because someone has a disability can also be viewed as dehumanizing and ableist.

Okay well that's grand for you what does it have to do with this instance though?

Well, personally the ableism with this framing to me is that it frames having dissociative identity disorder as this thing where alters can just be born sporadically and immediately go on murder sprees. You know the ableist trope that everyone was bitching about being the case trial one. Just to be using it now to support the idea of there being more than two alters.

It kind of highlights that people don't have an issue with ableism when it directly supports the point they want to make.

Further displaying how performative and disingenuous the audience's interest in these concepts can be.

All to again undermine the idea that Mikoto is,

"I don’t remember a thing, it couldn’t be helped, I’m DOUBLE (MeMe) I was having such a hard time, I was trying so hard."

Along with the very existence of individuals that have dissociative identity disorder that presents with only this number of alters. When I referred to the behavior as copium it was to make light of this situation and move on. Because it was clear to me that people within this space aren't at a point in their lives where they can actively reflect on how they interact with the topics Milgram discusses.

That those behaving in this way aren't doing it based on any reasonable grounds but just trying to engage with the media in a way that they find more interesting to them personally. How that comes off to others or what it says about them is just what it says about them. However, there's no discussion to be had here. There's nothing to really debate about. Will nothing that ultimately sticks to discussing the material as it was presented instead of going into what the majority fan response says about the audience.

Which doesn't really make it that fun to interrogate in my case. I'm here to interrogate Milgram the series not real people's objectively harmful behavior. I don't go looking for 3koto theories for this reason. I don't go on people's posts about it saying well this is why I believe it's not that. Because at the end of the day I'm not hung up on what others want to believe is going on.

I'm not going to change my mind on this simply because of what other people think would be narratively pleasing.

Because that's completely subjective. I don't see this being the case and it would not be narratively pleasing to me. There's no evidence for it and I believe presenting the idea that dissociative identity disorder can only present in one way is harmful. I could disprove it a million times. I could go point by point frame by frame color by color explaining why this behavior is just ridiculous.

However, I do have a life and I want to spend it discussing things the way I like to discuss them. Regardless of how people feel about it. Because when someone else is pissing in a cup right in front of me and tries to sell it to me as lemonade I simply go,

"Okay, that's certainly a thing you did there. Now drink it. You like what you did there so much, right? Drink it."

It's really that simple.

#milgram #mikoto kayano

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