#Joker meta

[psalmsofpsychosis]

going through the batmanverse archives after awhile and— we really need to talk about the way Batman and Joker fight.

There's a form to fighting for offence and defence, your body movements are focused on delivering pain and/or protecting yourself from pain. This involves a sequence of specific positionings and physical orientation, none of which Batman delivers right when it comes to Joker.

It's a bit on the nose at this point to talk about Joker's fighting style when it comes to Batman, what with his knife and the intimate proximity that fighting style creates and all—

But Batman? Batman literally hits like sex. He punches joker's face like he's trying to get past skin and bone and get into his mouth, he fights Joker like he wants to make a dent in him and tear into him, get in him. it's fascinating how in Batmanverse Batman's fights with Joker are a lot like intercourse; upclose and unbearably personal, he's not trying to hurt him as much as he's pushing to get closer and closer to him. He doesn't hit to break through, he hits to break in. And he doesn't get satisfied until he draws blood, what is *in* must come out; he wants to draw the inside out, to see the affect of how he drives Joker over the edge. cum symbolism ensues this brings me to another curious point:

traditionally in the percieved absence of female ejaculation and visible signs of orgasm and conclusion, for a very long time men have been obsessed with making a woman bleed from intercourse. At different points in Batman comics writers have assigned a lot of feminine qualities to Joker, sometimes a bit more than usual, sometimes a bit less, but it's been there consistently through most of his portrayals, so when plotpoints like these

ensue, you start to wonder what is happening here exactly. Very curious indeed.

#*absolutely noone is surprised by the conclusion of this meta* #i think i wrote this meta 4 different times and i'm sure there are more apeshit panels out there #that unintentionally or intentionally drive the point home but like #the blood=cum parallel imageries in the Batjokes-y panels are driving me nuts #it's such consistent symbol throughout the comics by now #but also i'm rereading Batman Europa and uhh. uhhhh #Batjokes #Batjokes meta #Batman #Batman meta #dc joker #Joker meta

[lankylordoflevity]

So something I’ve been absolutely obsessed with lately is Joker’s descriptions of what it would be like for him to kill Batman. More specifically, I’m fascinated by the fact that, in at least a couple of them, there seems to be this common thread of peace throughout. 

Take, for instance, these panels from Batman (2016) #29 where Joker is describing his preferred method of killing Batman at the dinner party with Riddler and Bruce:

Another example of this exists in Batman/Catwoman #9, when Joker is detailing his fantasy about killing Batman to Selina (which, might I add, has some pretty blatantly sexual undertones):

While both of these descriptions are certainly brutal and contain an element of sadistic pleasure from Joker, they also reveal this underlying desire within him to see Batman at peace. In the first example, the peace comes from death at the Joker’s hands, while in the second example, Joker chooses to kill Bruce only after he has finally seen him content with the work he has done in Gotham. 

This concept ties in really nicely to greater discussions about how Joker feels towards Batman and what he wants out of their complicated relationship. In these instances, it seems that Joker’s actions are motivated by care and affection in addition to hate. He wants to see Batman in pain, but he also wants to see him happy, two desires that he consistently demonstrates in his quest to draw out the darker parts of Batman’s psyche. Joker wants Batman to go feel the mental anguish that he has, but he also wants to help him give in and find peace with his mental illness(es), because that was what helped Joker move on and become a stronger person. (These contradictory desires are also shown in Joker’s overarching quest to be the color to Batman’s darkness, usually through extremely violent methods.)

As is the case with most of Joker’s feelings, though, his feelings on the topic of Batman finding peace are self-contradictory. For example, in Batman (2016) #49, when Joker and Catwoman are discussing the upcoming BatCat wedding, Joker clearly expresses that he can’t see Batman happy, because he wouldn’t be Batman, which would mean that Joker wouldn’t have anyone to stop him anymore, and therefore, would be purposeless:

All of this information put together suggests that Joker is pursuing a self-defeating mission by chasing two contradictory goals. This makes sense because Joker is an inherently contradictory character. Everything from his mission-like dedication to his nihilistic philosophy (”fighting for meaninglessness but giving meaning by virtue of the fight,” as he puts it in Endgame) to his love-hate relationship with Batman screams self-contradiction, and it’s likely that he would be conflicted in a similar way when it comes to true desires for Batman’s mental state, too. He wants to make Batman suffer - to force him down the dark hole that he finds himself in - but he also wants to see Batman find the same peace that he found in his own “insanity.” Ultimately, though, he can never have either outcome, because then Batman would no longer be Batman, and therefore, Joker could no longer be the Joker.

Anyway, all of this is to day that Joker, somewhere deep within him, seems to want to give Batman a peaceful ending?? At the very least, it is something he fantasizes about on occasion, and there’s something particularly strinking to me about that. It seems to suggest that sometimes, Joker wants a beautiful, violent finality, but that his commitment to this cycle of violence keeps him from following through on that desire because then his “fun” - and his relationship with Batman - would end. 

#i don't know man #joker is a contradictory mess #anyway #this was my first actual meta #so i hope it was at least okay #joker #the joker #joker meta #batman #bruce wayne #batman meta #batjokes #batjokes meta #selina kyle #catwoman #batcat #comic panels #my incoherent thoughts and ramblings #analysis

[gigachad-joker]

I’ve always found this interaction in Batman Superheavy between amnesia Bruce and our supposed Retired Joker to be so interesting as well as gut wrenching. DC’s choice to show us what both of these men could have been like without the trauma that made them what they are only to throw both of them right back into the bitter, harsh reality of their defined purpose in Gotham, somehow left me feeling like it was a cop out. There was never a happy ending for Joker, even in his ‘retirement’ he was ready to commit suicide and there was never a happy ending for Bruce either because the city would always find a way to make him Batman. No matter what happens to either of them, they can’t survive without the other and will always find ways to come back to each other. Even in his sanity Joker couldn’t stop himself from speaking to Bruce. It’s why I find this scene so confusing, why Joker wouldn’t want Bruce to become Batman again, so much so that he begs him not to. When Jokers actions, the gun, tell us a completely different story. They tell us that he misses Batman, he misses their dance. So why beg for the opposite of what you want?

#gig's comic search #gig’s joker takes #joker #dc joker #dc universe #comic books #the joker #joker comics #joker meme #batman comics #dc batman #Batjokes #joker meta #comics #amnesia bruce #retired joker

[clownfishbites]

OK SO,

I’m guessing Batman/Joker: Switch (2003) is a bit niche since I hadn’t heard of it until really recently. But as the CEO of niche quasi character studies of the Joker from the early 2000s I’ve gotta give this one it’s flowers.

It starts out with an interesting premise that it doesn’t really use, but the opener is this:

So I was super hyped thinking this was gonna be one of those awful medical malpractice character studies that I love, where it examines what happens when you forcibly unravel the Joker personality with deeply unethical therapy.

(I love that concept and trust I’m writing a batjokes fic about something similar.)

But working on that theory, Batman comes to London to find Joker who has been let loose after what seems like a very unethical surgery where someone removed his smile and put it on the back of his neck. He’s not quite himself, getting a bit lost in the lines between himself and Batman, wandering around trying to solve what happened to him and forgetting to eat or take care of himself.

Which is where we get this great moment:

I love it. The second somebody genuinely cares and intervenes on his behalf he assumes it’s Batman.

I really like the way the panels are drawn here, leaning into the surrealism of Joker's wide eye, and the smile in the place it shouldn't be, it's all very Dali. This, in combination with the fairly rare show of vulnerability from Joker, and the totally disconnected nonsense way he speaks in this one, really heightens that feeling of 'oh there's something wrong here', it's weird seeing a broadly sympathetic take on Joker.

But they know each other too well, because upon showing up, forcibly giving him medication is actually one of the first things Batman does.

Batman reclassifies the lines between them, actually helping Joker get back to his baseline self. He doesn't capitalise on the confusion as a means of pacifying Joker or anything, he just rigidly reinforces the status quo- returning Joker to himself and putting them both back in Arkham.

But then we learn the real kicker: Joker asked for the surgery. It's really interesting to see the collage of his behaviour from far away, because this pretty extreme facial self-mutilation for the sake of a wider point, or just for comedy we won't see again for 10ish years, until he gets his face taken off by the Dollmaker before DOTF.

Just to quickly return to the initial vulnerability from Joker this issue teases the reader with. It does strike a fairly sympathetic tone, framing Joker as the victim of some cruel joke for once, removing his smile. But now we know he asked for it, literally. It isn't so much an ‘oh he got what he was coming to him’, but that the sheer amount of pain, psychological, physical pain the Joker experiences every day, due to this lifestyle he has chosen, is all still a direct result of his own choices. One bad day, or whatever backstory he may have had that led him here, we know that it is categorically not the only option. He is truly the architect of his own misery, he very much was the first victim of the Joker, and I find it interesting that this comic forces you to take that perspective. That even a vulnerable, half-starved and mentally confused Joker is this way because he "begged" for it, and is now facing the consequences of his own actions, with the faith that Batman will care enough to save him.

#batjokes #shaking with the effort of not mentioning Batman: cacophony again #because yes this is another comic where another villain banks on Batman being distracted with Joker #yes it’s kinda great #joker meta #batjokes meta

[distort-opia]

The joker has many names in many stories, but how did you (in your opinion or point of view) reveal the "true" origin of the villain and I loved it and I want you to do the same with the "true" name of the joker, please 🙏

Thank you, glad you had fun with my previous Joker-related meta! Oof, Joker's "true" name... That's a very thorny issue.

First of all, there's a canon name for Prime Earth Joker right now, and a canon origin. You guessed it, it's The Killing Joke one. This wasn't really surprising to me when it came out, the TKJ origin has been referenced as canon multiple times at this point; it's only the last name that remained a mystery. But then they revealed his name to be "Jack Oswald White":

Flashpoint Beyond #5

I'm pretty sure we all agree that the only good part of that is "Jack". Don't know why the hell they went for "Oswald" (let Penguin have the monopoly on that goddammit!), but "White" is not that much of a surprise, it's just... a bit boring. Basically, Joker's had "White" attributed to him before in the Arkham games, he used it as an alias.

The fan-favorite (and my own, actually) name for Joker is actually "Jack Napier". It's got a long history... First used in Tim Burton's Batman (1989), it then got adopted by Batman: The Animated Series, The Batman (2004) and multiple other adaptations, like the Black Label Batman: White Knight comic-- which is just the most famous recently, but Joker's been named "Jack Napier" in so many other Elseworld and alternate universe DC comics. However, the name has popped up in comics closer to main continuity too. Joker himself used it as an alias in the New 52, in Red Hood and the Outsiders; but more importantly...

Arkham Asylum: Madness

Tough to say how canon this comic is, but it's heavily implied Joker's surname is "Napier". And since it's been canonized Joker's kid would've been a boy, "Milton" was probably his name (if you follow Falls the Shadow, my Joker-centric fic, you're probably familiar). But most recently, and having the most weight, they showed that the Joker equivalent of one of the Dark Multiverses was named "Jack Napier":

Tales of the Dark Multiverse -- Batman: Hush

So... it's a bit of a mess. It's been made official that his name was "Jack Oswald White" (maybe they want to do something with the initials JOW??), but the name people have been using for him for years is "Jack Napier". More generally though, you'll find that even comics that never give him a last name use "Jack" (like Batman: Gotham Knights #54, or Batman: Three Jokers, or the name of Jokester, the good Joker of Earth-3).

...And alright, I can't help myself. I'll go ahead and rant about a pet theory of mine, since I think Zdarsky intentionally tried to fit this all into an explanation. He tried to do something about Joker being people with different names and even different genders (like Martha Wayne) across worlds. But everything from here on is a spoiler for the main Batman run, so I'll put it all under the cut.

In case you're not familiar with the plot of The Bat-Man of Gotham, basically Bruce got thrown into another Universe in which Batman didn't exist. Here he found a guy called Darwin Halliday or Red Mask, who never became Joker, but wanted to. He'd glimpsed into the Multiverse with a chemical, and as a result created a machine that allowed one to travel the numerous Universes. In their final confrontation, Bruce and Red Mask both get hurled across the Multiverse by the machine, and here's an interesting panel from a world (clearly Burton's Batman movie world) Bruce encounters:

Batman (2016) #135

They have Bruce see his name, and the name "Jack Napier" on panel. Meanwhile, the "sane" Joker Bruce is chasing is named "Darwin Halliday". Then there's freaking "Jack Oswald White" for Prime Earth, an existing alternate called "Jack Napier" in a Dark Multiverse, and don't even get me started on freaking "Alby", another potential Joker name from Detective Comics (2016) #1000.

Bruce however, in Zdarsky's story and not only, only has himself. All the Universes he hops through have "Bruce Wayne" as the connection, even when Bruce isn't Batman (like in Batman Beyond). Is Bruce the only one to be Batman? Of course not, different others have carried the mantle (like Dick Grayson, Jean-Paul Valley, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne, James Gordon etc.). But I'm not trying to refer to worlds in which Bruce Wayne was Batman and then something happened to him and he was succeeded/replaced; I'm trying to refer to worlds in which someone else became Batman from the start. Those are quite rare, but they almost always have a Wayne: Thomas Wayne, or Helena Wayne. Even Owlman, the "evil" counterpart, is Bruce's brother.

Of course, the connection linking the Bruce Waynes is meant to be there so that the "infection" of Zur-en-Arrh can take place across the Multiverse. But then how exactly is Red Mask finding each Universe to jump into, right? How is he connecting mentally to all the Jokers, if the Jokers are different people and not the same as for Bruce? Why is it that whenever a Wayne becomes a Batman, someone becomes a Joker? Well...

Batman (2016) #135

So. Red Mask was following Batman, the one who's existence directly lead to Jack going insane and becoming Joker. Wherever there was a Batman, Red Mask precipitated the creation of a Joker... who wasn't always the same person. Just the person who needed a "push" into becoming it, hence explaining why Joker is different individuals. "Joker" is pretty much the cosmic curse following Batman, his inevitable shadow. (Not only that, depending on the moment Red Mask arrived, he also brought back the existing Jokers from the dead or made them worse.)

Now. Do I like this explanation? Not really, I think it sucks to unravel Joker's character so much and take away all his mystery, all the cool alternate interpretations. Not only that, but this explanation essentially takes away agency from Joker's character and attributes it to freaking... Multiverse shenanigans. However, I did appreciate Zdarsky's effort to give the whole thing some meaning. You don't see that frequently in comics. And in a way, it's so insanely soulmates-as-a-curse for Batman and Joker. They're so tied together it's impossible to unravel them.

#hope this was of some help Anon! #asks #batman #joker #joker meta #my meta

[fantastic-nonsense]

Do you know how accurate this panel is to the Joker's 'true' motives? I'm not very familiar with The Joker's history in the comics since I know him more from animated movies and cartoons. (This is from Three Jokers btw)

Preface: I have not read The Three Jokers. I have no interest in reading The Three Jokers as someone who is generally uninterested in the Joker, hasn't liked a single Bat-related thing Geoff Johns has ever written, and hates the concept of Jason/Babs being given any airtime or consideration whatsoever. Take my analysis with a grain of salt.

Generally speaking: no one likes the crime families. No one. It's partially why no one really blinked an eye when the entire Bertinelli family was murdered and why War Games panned out the way it did. The Joker is not exempt from that equation. Whether it makes sense for the Joker to have a specific vendetta against any of the Gotham crime families is more of a question you have to answer based on which of the Joker's multiple choice backstories you ascribe to, but in general: you can probably say that taking them out would rank somewhere on his to-do list simply because a) they're terrible and no one likes them and b) less power for them means more power for him.

From the perspective of Three Jokers: it's my understanding that one of the Jokers specifically has a Thing about the mob. I would assume, based on my knowledge of the three Jokers who appear in the comic (the Golden Age Joker, the Silver Age Joker, and the Killing Joke Joker) that this would be "The Comedian," the version based on The Killing Joke; that's the Joker whose backstory has him being pressured by mobsters into becoming the Red Hood to rob Ace Chemicals, which led him to becoming Joker in the first place. So if they're talking about that particular Joker in that panel...it's not something that the Joker's ever really focused on, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if for the purposes of the book Geoff Johns zeroed in on The Comedian having a grudge against Gotham's crime families as a way to differentiate that Joker from the other two.

#joker meta #batman meta #dc comics #asks #the joker #batman #the three jokers

[fifiophobia]

Jokers Real Name Explained

(Spoilers for Flashpoint Beyond)

I know I’m a little bit late to this, but in Flashpoint Beyond #5 it was reveled that The Jokers (possible) real name was Jack Oswald White

From what I’ve seen, a lot of fans had mixed to negative reactions to this reveal, with a common complaint being that the name “Jack Oswald White” was a dumb name, or that this reveal takes a major aspect of Jokers character away

This post isn’t going to focus on my opinions of the reveal. Rather I’m going to try and explain the significance and symbolism in his name

———

Jokers first name being Jack makes a lot of sense considering a jack is a type of playing card

Another detail to point out is that a jack card is considered the lowest out of all the face cards (not the lowest in the card deck). Something that makes sense with Joker because he used to be a low class citizen

According to Wikipedia, the name Jack-

“was originally a diminutive of John. Since the late 20th century, Jack has become one of the most common names for boys in many English-speaking countries. Jack is also used to a lesser extent as a female given name, often as a shortened version of Jacqueline”

Being a diminutive of John makes sense because of the name, “John Doe”. John Doe is a name used to refer to people whose true identity is unknown. This makes sense considering how many possible names the Joker could have, and his “multiple choice past”

Also, with Jack being a possible nickname (though usually spelt Jackie) for girls as as well makes sense for Joker too considering he occasionally presents himself in a traditionally feminine manner

Now, I’m still trying to figure out why Jokers potential middle name is Oswald, but I think I have an idea.

The name Oswald usually translates to God, to rule/ruler, or divine power.

This makes sense because the Joker is seen as this chaotic, godlike entity despite being human in the DC universe

Also, he’s been referred as “the clown prince of crime”

(Just a side note: every time I think about Jokers middle name being Oswald, I’m always reminded of Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, a character -who used to be an entertainer- that was pushed to the sideline and forgotten by people until he showed up as a villain in Epic Mickey. Kind of like how the Killing Joke version of Joker used to be a poor “nobody” until he became a villain. The main difference is that Oswald is no longer a villain, and the Joker is still a villain)

Finally, I think the reason his (possible) last name is White is because of two reasons

The color white is usually associated with purity and innocence. Which ironically fits in with his possible origin story of being a failed comedian because he started off as someone with pure intentions of helping his family, but becomes tainted after having a terrible day that ended with him falling into chemicals. (Also, it’s kind of funny that the guy with pure white skin has white as his last name)

White is a lot like the last name Wayne. Both being five lettered last names that start with W and end in E. Thus adding another connection between Joker and Batman

Again, this is just a theory for why the writers picked Jack Oswald White to be Jokers possible name. So if you have any other theories, feel free to add on.

#the joker #joker meta #the joker meta #Batman meta #flashpoint beyond spoilers #flashpoint #flashpoint beyond #Batman #dc comics #joker analysis

[arrowheadedbitch]

Tim, holding a crowbar: Yknow, Joker, there are infinite realities where you're already dead, where you never existed? An infinity of times you were good, or kind, or caring. There's even times you were a symbol of joy for all children, instead of a vicious monster that deserves nothing but the worst.

Joker: . .uh, infinities a pretty big number, you sure it's not like...10 or something?

Tim: Yeah, it is a big number. Have you ever seen infinity of something? Do you think if you ever got the chance to see it you would even be able to comprehend it? I can see infinity stacked on top of infinity an infinite number of times. Could your infinitely small mind ever dream to comprehend something even close to that?

Joker: Do you have a fucking fever or something?

Joker: Do-do I need to call the bat? Are you even supposed to fighting right now??? What is happening, are you even lucid? Am I lucid? Did I take an acid and forget???

Joker: Which one of us has a concussion bc one of us has gotta

#joker #tim drake #red robin #robin #rr #chaotic tim drake #meta!tim #unhinged tim drake #my au #murderer tim drake #murder the joker #do it

[alyakthedorklord]

Punchline

In those fics where Danny kills (or permanently maims/gets rid of) the joker on accident (or any random person who kills the joker honestly) his street name should be “punchline.”

Bc a Punchline is the end of a Joke.

Better if this is a world where ghosts fight for fun and stuff so Danny will also throw down with Grundy and Croc and Red Hood. He’ll fight random goons too, but he goes easy on them. Everyone knows he does. Like a mama cat play fighting with kittens.

“There goes Punchline, throwing hands. He’s down for a brawl but don’t cross The Line. Don’t make him mad. He earned that name, and it wasn’t with those puns.”

(Edit: I have been informed that Punchline is the name of Joker’s second girlfriend or something! We have decided that Danny stole the name the same way Jason stole Red Hood! Can we say power couple?)

#dcxdp #joker dies #ghost brawl #dp x dc prompt #does gotham know hes a ghost? #nope #it’s just Danny the Probable Meta #why’s this guy scary? #Ended the Joke #dead on main

[nelkcats]

King and Joker

The bats were confused when Joker announced he gained a companion. His partner (or sidekick) is strong and has too many powers but looks sad. They tried to ask him if something was wrong but he remained silent. Joker liked to call him "The King", but he insisted that he was only "Phantom". The clown didn't care and continue with the nickname.

"King Phantom" tends to ignore when civilians are evacuated, feign ignorance when someone tries to escape, and has offered the bats bandages and medicine a couple of times. But when The Joker is present he becomes completely desperate and aggressive, as if he is fighting for something.

On the other hand, Joker got a completely new weapon, it was a green sphere that produced lightning but Phantom winced every time he saw him use it. On one occasion Tim swore he heard him whisper "Ellie".

Danny was scared, Ellie was unstable and anything he did could be fatal. When he arrived in Gotham looking for her missing core he didn't expect to find it in the hands of a clown. The clown realized that he had something to bribe him (although he didn't know how important it was) and began to order him around.

Danny hated it, he held back most of the time because he was fighting humans, not revealing many of his powers. And he would have killed the clown a thousand times if it weren't dangerous for Ellie. Joker would never break away from the core by saying it was "good luck", and would lock it in a ghost-proof cell, which is probably where he found it originally. The halfa just wanted his the girl back.

#dp x dc #dc x dp #dpxdc #Joker is not an idiot #he realized the sphere was important for the boy #and started bribing him with it #He found the core on an glowing cell inside a warehouse #and he took it thinking it was radioactive #it was not but it included a powerful meta searching for it #and he took advantage of that #The bats are confused #Phantom acts different depending if the clown is there or no #How Ellie ended on a warehouse in Gotham is up to you #Joker thinks the core is a weapon #he doesn't understand why Phantom wants it #but he is not giving it back #Phantom as Joker sidekick #his new name is The King #but he still preferred Phantom #he gave up with the Joker calling him something different tho #Ellie is healing inside her core #dp x dc prompt #dp x dc crossover #the joker #dani phantom #the king

[psalmsofpsychosis]

What i say: i'm fine

What i mean: i grow an extra head everytime someone says they dont have a single clue why Batman refuses to kill Joker despite 80+ years worth of plot points justifying it, because listen— regardless of each individual Batman story and its infinite intricacies and inconsistencies, on a foundational level Joker cannot die. Batman is a symbol of the superego structure, Joker is the banished and suppressed id structure, together they make an extreme interpretation of the human psyche. They're intertwined complementary narratives, neither one can exist as a concept without the other. The aspirational, idealistic, high flying superego cannot survive without the subconscious, the animal wisdom, the id. Superego represents the mind, the intellectual aspect of humanity, id represents the body, the instinctual and intuitive part of us. Joker as a narrative is a very christian and american depiction of id, but he represents it nonetheless. He's batman's id, society's id, he is a story about a culture that cannot translate and contextualise and integrate id. This is why Batman progressively gets worse in every story where Joker dies, this is why we have Bruce saying “What separates me from them… is a hand on a knife. His hand. […] I’m just what he made me.” this is why in best batman stories Batman and Joker die together, one following the other. on an intuitive level we understand that superego cannot survive without id and vice versa, even if on a cultural level we struggle with the idea. Batman and Joker shape each other in irreversible ways, neither of them make sense without the other.

The haphazard lizard wizard operating my brain: heehee hoohoo here comes the punchline, no joke

#The Joker as a bad id portrayal talk. maybe another time #but guys #guuuuuuuuys #my brave boys babes and beasts. Joker cannot die. Not without massive narrative consequences for Batman. #every story that says otherwise doesn't understand their dynamic sorry i dont make the rules #the joker #dc comics #dc joker #joker meta #batman #batman meta #batjokes #i mean. yeah #batjokes meta

[lankylordoflevity]

Joker finding Kant and Rand hilarious is my new favorite thing in the entire universe. It fits him so much.

#joker #the joker #joker meta

[gigachad-joker]

This scene from Batman Legends of the dark knight Going Sane #65 is not talked about enough. Joker’s need for Batman’s existence goes to his very core, it is the very reason he allows himself to exist in the way he does. Joker’s entire personality is built on his ability to dismiss his actions as characteristics of his maladies. Even more so every new elaborate act that he creates isn’t even for him in the end. We confirm this with Joker saying that, “if there’s no Batman to drive crazy, then why be crazy at all?”. So why commit crime at all?

Without Batman, even knowing that he’s won against Batman, Joker feels sick and is unable to continue being ‘himself’, questioning his identity; “No it’s not me. It’s not me at all.” Which makes us question whether Joker even likes being Joker, whether he is even ‘insane’ at all. The next issue in this comic shows Joker ‘killing’ his identity for a normal civilian life confirming that yes, his obsession with Batman gave him a purpose, but it was so all-encompassing that he's got absolutely nothing else and has made no effort to give himself anything else (His failed relationship with Harley is a good example).

This begs the question of whether Gothams saving lies in Batmans death as it is made clear that Joker wouldn’t want to be The Joker if Batman did not continue to exist. This opens a new conversation on whether Batman is actually helping Gotham or if he is Gothams demise.

#gig’s comic search #rambling because this comic scene made me cry #joker #the joker #dc joker #dc universe #comic books #joker comics #joker meme #batman comics #comics #legend of the dark knight #Batman #batman x joker #Batjokes #joker meta #meta analysis #dc meta

[franollie]

if every DC writer could read DC first: batgirl/joker that’d be great

even in just the last few pages it really nails their dynamic and the meaning of the batgirl mantle. Cass more than anything has a deep seated need to prove herself. shes competitive and babs knows this

THESE PANELS RIGHT HERE!! THIS WAS THE WHOLE POINT!!

“you’re going to make people forget me and thats okay” GOD I WISH

more than anything the batgirl mantle is about needing to prove yourself be it to the men in your life (babs), to the readers (cass), or to the writers (steph)

this is why babsgirl doesn’t really work anymore. babs has proved she’s capable as oracle she doesn’t need the batgirl mantle anymore. batgirl was the first name cass was given and it was someone else’s—thats not inherently a bad thing. it gives her a reason to keep fighting and it suits her natural need of competition.

anyways if you aren’t gonna read Batgirl 2000 at the very least read DC first: batgirl/joker

#cass & babs #cassandra cain #barbara gordon #dc first: batgirl/joker #batgirl meta

[distort-opia]

I always wonder how does joker manage to hold up in a fight with batman, hes usually depicted as a lanky guy, so how does he hold up going against the super buff tall man that bruce is?

That's an excellent question, and one comics have never been very keen on answering. Joker's fighting prowess tends to be what the plot needs it to be, but overall he's indeed been shown as capable of holding his own against Batman... when he actually puts his mind to it. Most of the time he enjoys getting the crap beaten out of him, so there's plenty of instances where Joker doesn't look like a challenging opponent. However, Joker's fought more people than just Batman, and he's been shown to be a good fighter.

With Joker's backstory and past being a mystery for so long, it's tough to say how exactly he came to be a skilled fighter. Now that the The Killing Joke backstory is canon (as per Flashpoint Beyond), one wonders how the broke comedian ended up being able to eventually last against Batman in a fight. My theory on this is rooted in my personal timeline of Joker's past, which is an amalgamation of multiple comics that have dealt with his origin stories. People tend to think "well, if TKJ is canon, then Zero Year or Streets of Gotham can't be true", but I believe all these stories do ultimately fit together. I've got a bigger meta post on the subject of Joker's past here, but the bottom line is-- there's canon support for Joker having lived on the streets and (unwillingly, and then possibly willingly) being part of the mob. After being placed in the foster care system, it's likely he continued being active in gangs and engaged in other criminal activities like robberies.

So, I think Joker learned how to fight in his youth out of necessity. After running away from home, he grew up in a very hostile environment. It wasn't something nearly as structured as Bruce's years of traveling and training with various masters; most likely, Joker had to learn how to fight in order to survive and protect himself. Although it's possible he did have some kind of training, if he grew up in such close proximity to gangs. Maybe that's how he got so good with knives.

It thus makes sense that Joker had a decent fighting background to begin with, and as the years went by he got better and better. I haven't gotten around to making a second part to the meta about Joker's past (yet), but what follows is that, after being placed in foster care, Joker eventually tried to have a normal life. He finished highschool, he went to university and graduated, then got a job at ACE Chemicals. He married Jeannie... and then everything went to shit again. To be honest, I like this because it makes a lot of narrative sense, and tragically so. Unlike Bruce, Joker never had a normal life, or a normal family. He started out as the opposite to Batman, once again-- in poverty, with an abusive and hateful family that he either killed or ran away from. So eventually he tried to have a family of his own. He tried to be happy and stay away from crime, but following his dreams was impossible without money and resources, so he went back to it... and then Jeannie and his unborn child died. No wonder he broke. And after falling into the acid vat and becoming Joker, he also gained what's undoubtedly a very high pain tolerance, and some kind of metahuman durability (because he's survived so many lethal situations it's ridiculous, at this point).

So! If you combine masochism, high pain tolerance, a street fighting background and a complete lack of fear, you get Joker's hand-to-hand combat style. He's got this advantage over his opponents as well; he doesn't get scared, and pain doesn't stop him the way it would most people. He's thus very unpredictable.

It has to be said though, that Joker doesn't like getting his own hands dirty. He has goons, people that do the hard work for him, sidekicks. He uses laughing gas, acid sprays, hand buzzers, he uses guns and other long-distance weaponry a lot. As a character, Joker was never meant to be a match for Batman's bulk and fighting prowess-- the point is exactly that he isn't, and yet still manages to win. At his core, Joker is more of a mastermind, a brilliant manipulator with heaps of charisma; hand-to-hand combat is rarely his method of choice.

#asks #batman #batman meta #joker #joker meta #my meta

[satoshy12]

Underworld Fighter/Bodyguard Danny

It had already been a few years since Danny, for his job, left Amity Park. Working as a bodyguard or fighter in a meta-arcade. His sponsor was Veronica Sinclair, also known as Roulette, as he fought in her arena against other metas or villains for money.

Since she built her new undeground arena, where metahumans can fight for money and similar things, they are forbidden to join normal competitions as it's "unfair" against normal humans.

I mean, it would be unfair to see Superman in a boxing ring against a normal human, but still.

Roulette doesn't need to capture heroes, as the meta fights out of their own free will, and she still earns a lot of money. Even a few politicians and others came to watch the fights. From CEOs, crime bosses, and even once, the Presidents of the World!

As a fighter for Roulette and her bodyguard, Danny has had around 400 fights since the very beginning of the arena and 0 losses.

His boss asked if he could work as a warden in Arkham Asylum for the Mayor of Gotham, as it had an important meeting for one month.

As being told by Veronica, Danny had no problem with it; his sister worked in Arkham, and his daughter Dani wanted to visit her. He could stay for one month, then take his vacation to visit Amity Park. And it's not the first time he worked as Bodyguard for someone else, he did work for few people like Lex Luthor or Pinguin. For Lex he got to a job as he thought against Parasite.

1 Month later

Batman wasn't sure what was happening; no villain had broken out in more than a month. And he didn't hear anything from the Joker.

He learned that because of a new Warden who already left Arkham, no one tried to escape. Someone who one-shot Solomon Grundy K.O. with a punch and put the Joker, Professor Pyg, and Victor Zsasz into a coma with a single uppercut to the stomach?

Gordon seemed to be very happy as he said that, but seem very sad that the Warden had left.

+ Danny smiled at Dani, as they were driving with Jazz to Amity Park. Still he didn't like the talk both were doing about boys. Dani is too young!

But it had been nice to meet Pinguin again, it was a long time he worked for him and Sofia Falcone too. Or Bane from the Arena, he thought he stopped being a Villains like Victor as it's paid well enough in the Arena.

Mr Freeze:" For Nora." he earns in 1 fight the same as he does as thief.

Danny is adult, around 28 years old or older.

#danny fenton #danny phantom #dp #dc #dcau #dc comics #dp x dc #dc x dp #dp + dc #batman #Roulette #DCAU #justice league #underground fighter Danny #Meta Arena #Legal work for Roulette?? #Joker #Solomon Grundy #Proffesor Pyg #Victor Zsasz #James Gordon #Arkham Guard #Arkham Warden Danny #Bodyguard Danny #Dad Danny #dani fenton #Bruce Wayne #Veronica Sinclair #Jazz x Jason #Dani x Jon Kent