#Not grindeldore bashing i love grindeldore | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

firendgold · 11 months

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Pk now I want to hear tour rant about how Harrydore is bettter than Grindeldore. Bring it 🤣❤️

ohhh, this one's easy. I've been in this fandom on and off since 2006, and seen how Harry, Albus and Gellert were written pre- and post-'Dumbledore closet interview'. cracks knuckles

got to hit you with that readmore though. and it's going to be in two parts. I rambled again. ^^

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(...'rambled' is perhaps an understatement.)

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grindeldore vs harrydore

grindeldore

the tl;dr of the below is the following sentences, and then I'll get into it. My philosophy on gr*ndeld*re extends to all other ships in all other fandoms, especially HP: if it's not an AU and you have to excessively mischaracterize Character A to get them to 'fit' with Character B, then it's not a good ship, canon or not. Albus Dumbledore is quite often mischaracterized in order to 'fit' or 'keep' him with Gellert Grindelwald.

here's my problems with how gr*ndeld*re is most often portrayed:

Inconsistency within canon. JKR is partly mostly to blame for this (because she has contradicted her original 2007 statement in the present day with more interviews in the 2010s and with the Fantastic Beasts movies), but the first problem is: gr*ndeld*re was originally an unrequited ship. The original statement was that Albus was dazzled by Gellert's power, his presence, their similarities, their shared ideals... but That Woman wasn't explicit on whether Gellert ever returned his feelings. But based on her quotes where she says "falling in love can blind you to an extent" and that [Dumbledore] was "terribly, terribly let down" by the result of that whirlwind relationship, I think it's safe to assume that her original idea of Gellert cared far more for seeing his grander plans realized than for the needs and feelings of his 'equal'. And yet... in fandom, they are most often portrayed instead as star-crossed lovers torn apart by 'conflicting ideals'.

The second problem is that in the avalanche of fics and art that have come from The Reveal, the original lesson (/moral...?) behind the reveal of gr*ndeld*re, and how it shaped Albus as an adult, leader, and progressive, just... got lost. Completely lost. The whole point of it was to show that even Albus (supposed 'paragon of goodness' until book 7 showed the fandom that he is a regular human being) can make 'relatable' mistakes like... you know... being friends with a fascist. Being in love with a fascist, even. Thanks to said retcon interviews and the new movies (and even before that tbh) the fandom has since: overexaggerated Albus' new clay feet to the point of bashing him, idolized Grindelwald's red flag traits and ideals to the point where he has become the new "Tom Riddle was just misunderstood!" guy, and twisted that lesson/moral/whatever to mean that actually Albus and Gellert were tragically kept away from each other by an itsy bitsy little difference of opinion. A minor little fight. Casual death of your sick sister. Haven't we all been there?

The fandom diminishing the real reasons why Albus and Gellert eventually clashed, were destined to clash, is bad enough. What's worse is the opposite end. Some Dumbledore-bashing fans go the other way and paint present-day Dumbledore with the same brush as Grindelwald, even going so far as to say he still supports The Greater Good even though his entire character is literally built on being the opposite of the pro-magic, anti-Muggle philosophy. Albus has also been painted in some fics and even meta discussions as someone who 'regrets' his past not because his sister died and his brother is estranged from him, but just because his ex-boyfriend is in prison and he maybe kind of regrets not going full fascist with him. Like... bruh. NO. There are people who ship gr*ndeld*re just because they feel like Grindelwald, the worst dark wizard in the world, the reason why Voldemort is only a minor league little lord in comparison, is an appropriate "punishment" for the character they already dislike and thus misinterpret. (Side note: I'm not sure if I'm in a worse hell watching Albus' character get whitewashed for fascism or demonized so he can be a miserable lonely gay.)

Albus diminishes himself to meet Gellert's needs. An in-universe problem this time instead of a meta/RL one: Albus and Gellert were lovers, yes, but in order to be so, Albus had to actively start neglecting his siblings (since in Aberforth's words he was 'doing all right' taking care of them before Gellert showed up) and leaning more into anti-Muggle sentiment. He put all his energy into what for most of the magical world was a wild goose chase after some fairy-tale items. (Remember, most wixen don't give a shit about the Deathly Hallows, or think they're even real.) He became the person Gellert needed/desired most. Albus became a version of himself that he despised later in his life and after his death.

Relationships often include the members changing, and it's easy for even the most devoted partners to fall out of love if they change and are now too different from one another, or one person changes and the other... doesn't. After Ariana died, Albus chose to become a different person and champion the same people he and his family once despised. He chose to stay away from Gellert, whether he called it cowardice or principles or whatever else. And his choice put him in conflict with Gellert, who at sixteen refused to change course or rethink his ideals even when his choices led to the death of a magical person (the type of person he supposedly prizes above all others). His magical boyfriend's magical sister, even. And we see no sign that Gellert changed, repented, or considered Albus until decades later, at the very end of his life—far too late.

Healthy relationships require give-and-take, sacrificing for your partner in things big and small. For high-stakes relationships like Albus and Gellert's (queer in the 1800s, sweet Merlin), that is even more true. During that steamy summer of 1899, it was Albus who did all the sacrifcing/giving and Gellert who did all the taking. Gellert may have entertained the idea of bringing Ariana along on his quest with Albus (we don't know), but Aberforth was right to say that it would have been torture for her—and no alternate idea was brought up that would prioritize the wellbeing of Albus' siblings while he was away. And in the moment of required reciprocity when Albus was at his lowest, Gellert left him behind and went off to go rule the world. Not even the most diehard shipper can argue against the fact that when Ariana died, Grindelwald left.

This problem is even more personal/biased than the other ones. Albus and Gellert parted ways in 1899. They didn't see each other again until the duel in 1945 (because fuck Fantastic Beasts, the scripts don't even make fucking sense). Albus defeated Gellert, put him in prison, and then went on living for another fifty-two years. And That Woman expects me to believe that Albus never had a relationship with anyone before Gellert, and never even looked at another wizard afterward? In 52 years, he was one-and-done? He never once fell in love with other people, whether or not he fully trusted them/let them in? Be serious. Pull the other one. It's not realistic, and it doesn't speak to the kind of man Albus Dumbledore is. He may not have found a man to check the same boxes Gellert did, but he wouldn't arguably be looking for someone too similar to his old flame. He might not trust them unconditionally or be the Perfect Partner for them (bc whew traumaaa), but there would be other people for Albus in a realistic Magical Britain (even discounting time travel shenanigans). Before the reveal, the most popular people to ship Albus with were Minerva, Alastor, and Elphias Doge; these options are still arguably more valid. Albus Dumbledore loves love, he champions love, and he doesn't think he deserves it after his sins, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't go looking. It's mind-boggling to me that with all the well-deserved disavowing of JKR following her anti-trans hate (and her shameless pandering to the same people calling her a witch poisoning their children's minds decades ago), that some people still treat her words about Albus and Gellert's relationship and its effects on Albus in particular as gospel. I sure don't. (Especially because she said he became "asexual" after His One Gay Experience when like. That's not. What asexuality is??? And ace gay people exist???) Whether you count the FB movies or not, there are still decades of Albus' life that are a mystery, and I refuse to believe he closed his heart and caged his dick for all of them.

IMPORTANT END NOTE: These observations obviously do not apply to all gr*ndeld*re shippers. Some people genuinely do like both characters, characterize them correctly, and still want to see them together for reasons. I'm not going to judge them. I ship a frigging time travel age gap ship, how the fuck could I. And I'm also aware that a lot of fics/art are made to color in between the lines of what we don't know in the fandom, bringing Albus and Gellert together during the mystery years, or making one wizard better for the other to address all the ship baggage. I just can't join them because of how rarely that occurs (and, admittedly, how much I personally can't see it). You would not believe how many fics and discussions I've seen that lionize Grindelwald and treat Dumbledore like an accessory, or completely mischaracterize Albus' motivations, intentions, and actions, and then put him with "the other Big Bad". UGH.

Most of the time, I see gr*ndeld*re the ship hurting Albus the individual. It's very rare to find an iteration where Albus is not bearing the consequences of Gellert's choices, Gellert's actions, Gellert's mistakes and harm done. I think Albus deserves better than to be Gellert's accessory just because he loved him deeply long ago.

okay. whew. that was a lot.

a character limit prevents me from continuing here, so the second half of this versus will go elsewhere, sorry!

#fireandgold #fireandgoldposts #kazuza-art #thanks for the ask!#tried to make it *non*-bashing but... eh I just really don't like most iterations of That Ship #I also put 'relatable' in quotes bc as a POC I simply could never be knowingly connected to a fascist. couldn't be me #it's WORSE bc Albus' mum is implied to be Native American and he just hooks up with wizard HITLER I cannot... I just can't...#granted. I have read really really good grindeldore fics. I just could never ship it/write a fic for them myself. perhaps it's my flaw lol #I tried to censor the name as often as possible so sorry if it ends up in the other tag #time travel harrydore #harrydore #dumbledore meta #potter meta #why not grindelwald #<- that tag is for later #...I have to split this post in half. damn you tumblr ''character limit''

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ggadtomarry · 2 years

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And now for something completely different...

I like Tom Riddle / Voldemort. Such a scary villain.

And since I'm a sucker for villain/hero, I like Tomarry and Tom&Harry.

And the fact that Harry tried to make Voldemort repent on their last duel? His compassion for broken creature Tom in the limbo? Genius. I love everything about their last interaction.

So I was surprised and happy that Tomarry has such a creative fandom (even if avoiding Albus bashing is an Olympic discipline).

And the trope of Harry going back and raising Tom himself? One of my fave tropes! Fantastic.

I think however that many people miss a key detail of Tom Riddle... he's handsome, charismatic, strong, intelligent, a prodigy. Yes, of course.

But he's also an edgelord who self-destroys himself.

During his teenager years he decided to change his name in a title created to inspire fear, and an anagram of his name. He also thought releasing a monster and killing children wouldn't have closed the school he loved being in. He also started researching on how mutilate his soul and 0% didn't care to destroy his body. And he believes or at least he feigns to believe in pureblood system when he knows his father was a Muggle.

I mean. Edgelord. Who often doesn't think about the consequences of his actions even if they are obvious. Who seems unable to grasp reality.

Also, he could have had everything. Power, richness, glory, fame. He was a genius, intelligent, cunning, strong, charismatic. He could have become Minister, a politician, an inventor, a professor, a doctor. Pretty much everything he wanted.

He decided to become a monster who gets defeated by a newborn. Who is feared and loathed by the whole wizard world including his Death Eaters (edgelord) excluding the craziest ones.

Also, his terror of death is so human, for a creature who denies his humanity. Even stranger in a world where souls exist, but much relatable.

What I mean is... would love to read fics that explore his neuroses, his weaknesses, his fatal flaws that make him a tragic villain. This doesn't mean woobifying him (I love his natural incapacity of feeling love or empathy, it makes him more innocent in many ways, I love what he is isn't a complete choice but in part a natural calamity like an hurricane), but exploring how he went wrong and how he could have gone less wrong, if only. Putting his destructive tendencies in something creative, to build something instead of destroying.

So yeah to Tom raised by Harry, hope to see more Tom raised by Grindeldore!

#tomarry #lord voldemort #tom riddle #grindeldore

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trothplighted · 2 years

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You’ve talked more than once about homophobia in the WRITING of the books rather than the characters being homophobic. Can you explain what you mean? Specifically, how is the writing of ootp and dh homophobic towards Sirius and Albus?

Yeah, I can, absolutely.

Obviously, when you have a character who’s either confirmed to be queer or is coded as queer, and the narrative itself goes out of its way to say “this person is morally suspect and unstable, this person isn’t good for children to be around, this person associates with bad and disreputable people, this person might mean well but actually they’re bad”, that’s homophobic writing, and that’s very much where my textual analysis with these two starts. You can definitely have queer characters who are messy and dangerous and bad! Not every queer villain is a bigoted stereotype, not every dead gay is an example of burying the gays.

But the question has to be asked - why are certain writing decisions made? Why does the author make the choice to portray Albus and Sirius the way that she does? And that’s where I begin to see homophobia.

In the same book where Albus is revealed to have a same-sex lover, suddenly he’s also morally grey and he associated with a fascist and he’s accused of having raised Harry like a lamb for slaughter. He’s not just Albus Dumbledore the kind and wise and loving and funny character from before, he’s gay, and he’s also complicated and bad. That is not accidental. That is a conscious choice that JKR made. She purposefully wrote a situation where the only canonically queer heroic character is also a former fascist sympathizer, and handled his complexity in such a way that people are still bashing him fifteen years later. By doing this, by linking his homosexuality with his bad politics and his character flaws, and not giving him any more love interests later on, and by having him spend the rest of his life guilty and hating himself, she’s creating a situation where the story of Albus’s life is “never fall in love if you’re gay because it’ll wreck your family and it’ll destroy the lives of those you love and your lover will be a horrible person”.

That’s homophobic. Plain and simple. Yes, I love Grindeldore and I love Albus and Gellert and I will keep shipping them no matter what, but one of the biggest reasons I’m doing that is because she’s told this story that says people like me who love others of the same gender are doomed to this tragedy. I reject her characterization of Gellert as toxic and evil and manipulative because making him all of those things is in and of itself a homophobic act. No, not every queer villain is a stereotype or a bigoted caricature, but when your only queer relationship is defined by these things? I call bullshit.

Sirius’s character assassination is also in that vein. In book three he’s kind and loving to Harry and offers him a home. In book four, he’s attentive, he’s a good support, he’s communicating with Harry’s other parental figure (Dumbledore), he’s telling Harry to be smart and be careful and not to take risks. He tells the trio that good men are people that don’t treat those beneath them poorly, and he speaks out against blood purity.

And then in book five - the first book written after Wolfstar became a prominent ship and dominated fan discussion of Sirius and the Marauders - he’s shoved into his abusive home, he’s belittled for no reason by Molly, he’s punished for trying to be honest with the kids, he’s shown associating with Mundungus the petty criminal, and there’s an ongoing theme of him not being safe for Harry to be around. Molly accuses him of replacing James with Harry, which is really homophobic to say to a queercoded character, and suddenly he’s no longer being the solid, wise, reasonable adult he was less than a year ago. He starts being racist toward Kreacher out of nowhere, to the point that he’s blamed for being so racist it killed him.

Again, this was Jo’s choice. His character changes for no reason except authorial decision, but as before, why was that decision made? It’s inconsistent with who he was beforehand, and it feels very pointedly about his failure to be good enough for Molly, who’s a cishet housewife. Sure, we’re given some in-universe reasoning, but all the coding in the text says “I’ve decided this man isn’t safe for children because he’s Different and Weird and so I’m going to make him dangerous.”

That’s also homophobia. It doesn’t ultimately matter what the reasons given by other characters for things are - even if we’re accepting them, it’s like with Albus. They come into existence in the book where the coding and queer-friendly interpretation becomes most relevant. She’s associating being a bad person with being homosexual. And there are no truly good heavily queercoded characters! Remus is straightwashed and then flakes out on his family anyway! It matters that this association exists because since nobody who isn’t like this gets to be queer, we’re left with a world where everyone who is is problematic.

That’s why I say that the writing itself is homophobic. There are ways to get around this, but you can’t ignore it, and it’s the thing I find myself angriest at Jo for doing.

#replies #grindeldore #wolfstar

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sofoulandfairaday · 2 years

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what other ships do you ship aside from bellamort?

Almost all the canon ones, to varying degrees: Belladolphus, Lucissa, Drastoria, Hinny, Romione, Grindeldore.

I have only ever written about the first three in fanfiction, however (aside from Bella x Voldemort, of course).

I enjoy reading both Jily and Snily but mostly in one-shots because I cannot bring myself to read multiple-chapter stories for these couples unless they are part of a bigger story.

You see, I tend to enjoy fanfics despite the romantic element, most of the time, and not because of it. I like to read stories about characters and their struggles, especially in the first wizarding war, and not ones that talk about how x and y fell in love. The only exception are probably Bellamort stories, and even then I'm very picky.

I don't ship it as much as I did, but my first OTP was Sirius x Bellatrix (i know, i know). I've also read and liked Severus x Narcissa, Rabastan x Andromeda (but there are no good ones around, unfortunately), and various combinations of those characters (with lots of drama and unrequited pining).

Also, I can read pretty much anything that is plausible and well-written, but I'm very quick to close fanfics if there are elements of them that I dislike. I find character bashing in general to be stupid and lazy writing, no matter which character it is. If you can't write a character, find a way to write him out of the story and leave it at that. Taking your anger out at fictional characters by treating them like Saw does with his victims has always puzzled me.

Also, if the ideas are good but the writing is horrible, I will close the story and read something else (although regrettably). I might stick around longer if the writing is amazing and the ideas are meh, but eventually, I'll get bored.

Something I can't stand is self!insert fanfictions and ones with "y/n" in them. They are usually horribly written and just straight-up porn, which would be fine on its own, except they are so cringy I can't look at them. They give me so much second-hand embarrassment.

Most of the fics I read are in my mother tongue (Italian) anyways. I don't have an account on English fanfic websites, so I mostly go there if I receive a link or if I'm looking for something specific that doesn't exist in the Italian fandom.

#bellamort #belladolphus #lucissa #drastoria #jily #snily #grindeldore #sirius x bellatrix #severus x narcissa #hinny #romione #fanfiction #anti self insert fanfics #anti character bashing #answered #asks

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alastorseye · 3 years

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About Remadora

When I say I really hate the HP fandom, I'm talking about the "fans" that hate everything about the saga, but still having Harry Potter accounts. They change the original story, claim that fanonical facts are canon, and launch hatred and death threats at those who simply like HARRY POTTER JUST THE WAY IT IS. Yes, I'm mostly talking about Marauders fans, which I joined after reading the books because I thought it would be interesting and funny. I suddenly realized how toxic and hateful that fandom was, it's like a cult dedicated to deifying Remus, Sirius, James and Regulus, and it seems that hating Snape, Dumbledore, and Remadora is a requirement to be a part of it.

At the beginning I used to consider Wolfstar as something funny, a bromance, it never bothered me, I mean... every fandom has fanon ships and I respect that, but the way they always hate Remadora and their shippers is something that MUST stop.

"You see!" said a strained voice. Tonks was glaring at Lupin. "She still wants to marry him, even though he's been bitten! She doesn't care!"

"It's different," said Lupin, barely moving his lips and looking suddenly tense. "Bill will not be a full werewolf. The cases are completely -"

"But I don't care either, I don't care!" said Tonks, seizing the front ofLupin's robes and shaking them. "I've told you a million times. . . ." And the meaning of Tonks's Patronus and her mouse-colored hair, and the reason she had come running to find Dumbledore when she had heard a rumor someone had been attacked by Greyback, all suddenly became clear to Harry; it had not been Sirius that Tonks had fallen in love with after all."

"And I've told you a million times," said Lupin, refusing to meet her eyes,staring at the floor, "that I am too old for you, too poor . . . too dangerous. . ."

When I read this part of the HBP I realized that Remadora was my favorite Harry Potter ship. Of course I wasn't aware of the death threats I'd receive later. I've read some "reasons" why some fans hate Remadora.

"Tonks forced him!"

We all know how insecure Remus was. I don't have to explain what's written in Wizarding World (Pottermore). This is the Remus bio:

Well, we can read that Remus was really attracted to Dora.

"Remus, so often melancholy and lonely, was first amused, then impressed, then seriously smitten by the young witch. He had never fallen in love before. If it had happened in peacetime, Remus would have simply taken himself off to a new place and a new job, so that he did not have to endure the pain of watching Tonks fall in love with a handsome, young wizard in the Auror office, which was what he expected to happen. However, this was war; they were both needed in the Order of the Phoenix, and nobody knew what the next day would bring. Remus felt justified in remaining exactly where he was, keeping his feelings to himself but secretly rejoicing every time somebody paired him with Tonks on some overnight mission".

This is so sad and cute, and that's undeniable. I cried when I read it. If someone still thinking that Dora forced Remus to marry her after reading this paragraph... I mean... they're probably talking about another book series.

"The age gap!"

I'm so satisfied to know that some Remadora shippers have explained this. When it's about a kid and an adult... OF COURSE IS HORRENDOUS! Because children are not physically and mentally prepared to have romantic relationships. Wizards are legally adults at 17, REMUS MET TONKS WHEN SHE WAS 21!

I mean, many old people abuses of young people innocence, or something. But we all know that Remus wasn't one of those! He really loved Tonks, and that's canon. I don't know what's doing in the fandom people who denies canon facts.

Remus and Tonks were two physically, mentally, and legally adults loving each other.

"Remus didn't love her!"

He was an introvert, Tonks was an extrovert, she made his life better. And of course, I loved the way he introduced himself when he was trying to prove he wasn't a Death Eater:

"I am Remus John Lupin, werewolf, sometimes known as Moony, one of the four creators of the Marauder's Map, married to Nymphadora, usually known as Tonks, and I taught you how to produce a Patronus, Harry, which takes the form of a stag." (Remus Lupin, DH)

Maybe I'm not the only one who perceive he was proud to be Nymphadora Tonks husband.

"I.. I made a grave mistake in marrying Tonks. I did it against my better judgment and have regretted it very much every since". (Remus Lupin, DH)

This phrase makes more sense after reading Remus bio. He used to think that he was "too poor, too dangerous" for her. He thought he wasn't enough for her. He never imagined that she would love him back. He was a werewolf, and of course he knew he was dangerous, you only need to be emphatic to realize he tried to get away from Tonks because he loved her, he didn't want to hurt his beloved woman!

If you don't believe me, read this again. It's in the chapter 11 of Deathly Hallows:

"Don't you understand what I've done to my wife and my unborn child? I should never have married her, I've made her an outcast!"

So, if Remus was trying to escape it's because he loved them, he thought he spoiled their lives. And of course, no one likes to feel that their influence is bad for someone they love!

"Their relationship came from nowhere! They don't have a development"

Well, the saga's name is HARRY POTTER, not The Love Life of Remus Lupin. The story is about the tragic life of this kid and everything he went through to save the world of a cruel and dark villain. I know many readers are young people in love, and they only want to ship everything, but that's not the main topic here, maybe mother's love would be the topic. Of course Ron and Hermione had a development because they were HARRY'S BEST FRIENDS, and they were always with him, from Philosopher's Stone to Cursed Child. Remus and Tonks are minor characters, and it's funny the fact that this usually comes from Wolfstar shippers, so... is Wolfstar more developed than Remadora?! I mean... they can ship whatever they want, Snape and the Sorting Hat, Dobby and Voldemort, anything, but that does not give them the right to disrespect such a cute, tragic and beautiful canon ship as Remadora.

"They are queercoded! Their relationship is homophobic!"

It's surprising to hear this. It's like... people gets angry just because the author doesn't make queer their favourite characters? I will explain why I don't think Remus and Tonks are "queercoded":

Whether through their dress, their behavior, their language, or other subtle forms of implication, queer characters were written or designed to communicate their unstated queerness to those who were searching for representation.

And this is the definition on the website Pride.com:

"Using LGBTQIA tropes and stereotypes to allude to a character's sexuality without explicitly confirming it in the text."

We all know that Disney used queercoding on characters like Ursula, Scar, Jaffar. And why do we know that? Because DISNEY WANTED TO PORTRAY THEM LIKE THAT, get it? Disney, THE CREATORS MADE THESE CHARACTERS INTENTIONALLY QUEER. How? BASED ON STEREOTYPES.

And going back to Remadora, I was really happy to see by first time a bada*ass woman, with short hair who wasn't portrayed as a lesbian just because the way she looks. This character didn't follow the: "Straight women have long hair and are girly", and "short dyied hair is for lesbians". I'm very very very surprised the fandom follows these stereotypes.

About Remus: I don't know how the phrase "being a werewolf is a metaphor about people with HIV AIDS" means "he's gay". Fenrir Greyback bit him when he was a kid. Many people interpret this as "r4pe". Okay, even thinking that it is the meaning of the "bite", I still cannot understand how being "r4ped" and "infected" makes him queer. Is this (again) a stereotype about people with AIDS and gay?

"JK Rowling created Remadora because she didn't like people shipping Wolfstar!"

It is true that fans love shipping everything, they queerbait and queercode everything. That's great, that's not the problem. The problem is when people starts bashing fans who ship canon straight couples. A very good example is the polemic on Falcon and Bucky relationship, some fans wanted them to be a gay couple, Anthony Mackie said that two men can only be friends, and there is no need to always give them a romantic connotation. People cancelled him, they called him homophobic. Yes, just because a person with authority (on the story they're following") didn't like the fact of queercoding their favourite characters. It's the same about Remadora.

Grindeldore is a very interesting and underrated couple by the way. You can love or hate JK Rowling, but the truth is that Harry Potter story is hers, and even if Remadora was "because she didn't like Wolfstar", she is the author, it was her mind where these characters first appeared, as a big Harry Potter fan I respect and like the original story, that's not a sin. An author has the right to make some changes if some characters were misunderstood by the readers.

(Yes, I wrote this a bit angrily since I've seen too much hate towards Remadora shippers)

#remadora #remus lupin #nymphadora tonks #harrypotter #anti toxic shippers #hp #ronks #harry potter

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calimera62 · 2 years

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I’ve been reading reviews for The Secrets of Dumbledore, and I am surprised to see so many negative reviews about the movie. Of course, a movie is bound to have negative reviews as well as positive ones, but as for now, I mostly saw negative reviews for this movie.

Maybe I didn’t visit the “right” websites, or maybe it’s mostly people from my country who are more critical, or maybe... people expect to see the Fantastic Beasts franchise at the same level as the Harry Potter (movies) franchise and are disappointed to see it’s not the same thing or not as magical as HP. Personally, I don’t think it was a bad movie. Maybe I set my hopes low after the second movie - who wasn’t the worst movie I ever saw but definitely had a lot of flaws in my opinion - but I genuinely enjoyed this movie, and think it was better than Fantastic Beasts 2.

Of course, I ship Grindeldore and was bound to love the movie because of the scenes Albus and Gellert shared but, Grindeldore aside, I think it was an interesting and enjoyable movie! I had a lot of fun seeing it, and I don’t regret having waited four years for it because it was worth it!

Of course, I’m afraid all those bad reviews will put an end to the FB franchise.

But I would really try to understand... yes, Fantastic Beasts 3 has its flaws, but I wish to understand... what is wrong in this movie according to you? (reasons other than JKR and Johnny Depp please)

(otherwise, if you want to talk about the movie’s flaw but spread the positivity, please go ahead!!)

Please, no bashing and be polite. Thanks!

#fantastic beasts 3 #the secrets of dumbledore #fantastic beasts and where to find them #tsod #fantastic beasts spoilers

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k-s-morgan · 3 years

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Hi Kat, what do you think of Dumbledore? IMHO, he's one of the most fascinatingly morally grey characters I've ever read about.

A lot of fanfic writers love to bash him and portray him as an idiotic senile old man who likes to poke his nose in others' business. They conveniently forget that he outwitted the most Slytherin out of all of Slytherin House. Granted, Voldemort was amazingly short-sighted and JK could have written a more terrifyingly cunning Dark Lord.

Well, there was Dumbledore’s Wizard Nazi youth with Grindelwald. Perfectly understandable because Ariana's childhood was completely ruined and he learnt just how Muggles can be dangerous. I don't think he ever forgot this epiphany.

For a long time, I wondered how Dumbledore, knowing perfectly well how the Dursleys were pre-disposed to magic, would think they would welcome Harry with open arms. He must have known that emotional abuse and neglect could make Harry an Obscurial. No blood-protection could have ever saved him from that. It's only Harry's innate stubbornness and his contempt of the Dursleys that saved him from what Ariana went through. This is quite possibly the worst thing Dumbledore could have done, along with sending Tom Riddle back to Wool's during the Blitz. Even though it was Dippet who made the decision, he was heavily influenced by Dumbledore and could have, at the very least, arranged to have Tom live in The Leaky Cauldron.

Many times I wondered why Dumbledore didn't simply threaten the Dursleys to treat Harry better. Thinking about it, I could only come to the conclusion that the power disparity between him and the Dursleys made him uncomfortable. As it comes down to, he is a strong wizard who coerced Muggles to look after a child they didn't want.

Another fascinating thing about him is his fear of power. Dumbledore didn't trust himself to hold power and he extended the same mistrust to many others, making himself rather emotionally detached from even those who sincerely loved and admired him. I think Dumbledore trusted himself to do right by the Wizarding World as a whole but not enough for personal gain. Dumbledore was weak to temptations personally (keeping the Invisibility cloak for nearly 10 years and falling prey to the compulsions on the Gaunt Ring when he saw the Resurrection Stone). So I think the only person Dumbledore truly admired and envied was Harry who was strong-willed inna way Dumbledore and Voldemort could never hope to be.

Related ask: I'm very curious if you have any headcannons about grindelwald and dumbledore's relationship that you'd like to share. I've always been drawn to the grindeldore ship for similar reasons that i like tommary (ex: enemies/lovers, moral angst) and i've always been disappointed that so many tommary shippers resent dumbledore, so I really like to hear you talk about the moral complexities of his character (and to hear that someone other than me can sympathize with him lol)

---------------

Hope you both don't mind that I combined your asks because parts of them concern the same topic!

First, about Grindelwald and Dumbledore. I like the idea of their relationship, but for some reason, I'm not really interested in them, so I don't have any specific headcanons. I do enjoy the idea that they were It for each other and that they could have made it if given another chance, but both had to be more mature and less obsessed with their life goals. I also tend to think that Dumbledore locked himself away for a while after their duel and cried from heartbreak.

As for Dumbledore as a character: I understand what drives him, the decisions he makes, and I have respect for him and his brilliant mind. I can't say I like him a lot, but I also don't dislike him - in my eyes, his worst actions clash with his most vulnerable moments, and so they balance each other out and my attitude is neutral.

@anyariddle, I fully agree with you about Dumbledore being one of the most fascinating morally grey characters. I'm in awe at how excellent his long-term thinking is and how he's capable of calculating everything years, if not decades, ahead; how coldness co-exists with empathy and deep sorrow.

Personally, I have no doubts that Dumbledore left Harry with the Durlseys deliberately to break him down. He heard Minerva's concerns, he must have conducted his own research. He also had Arabella watch Harry for years, and she definitely saw the abuse and reported everything back to him. But this time, unlike how it was with Tom, I believe Dumbledore tried to make sure it's a controlled abuse. If Harry proved to be a sullen boy with dark displays of magic, like Tom was, Dumbledore would have likely removed him from the Dursleys early and tried another approach before it's too late.

But Harry showed the response Dumbledore had been hoping for: he was the perfect material just waiting for someone to show him love and acceptance, eager to give them all his fierce devotion in return. Dumbledore needed someone who'll be ready to sacrifice himself for humanity, someone who never had a home, who'll see Hogwarts and people there as the only light in his life, and who'll cling to it with desperation only lonely and neglected children could show. Dumbledore started early: all the letters he sent to Harry were meant to humiliate the Dursleys and make his first contact with magic pleasant. Harry started to laugh and feel a little bit more powerful; then he got a room, and he quickly linked the letters with something good and welcoming. After getting a home and meeting friends, Harry would die in an instance to protect them.

Every year, Dumbledore tested Harry to see if he'd be ready to sacrifice himself at the end. In CoS, I believe Dumbledore tried to remove the Horcrux from him via the fang, but it didn't work and he realized Harry would indeed have to die. I have no doubts it broke his heart because he was still harboring hope that one day, Harry would live freely and happily.

In regard to Harry, most his decisions were manipulative in nature, and it's horrifying. In regard to the rest of the world, though, it makes sense because if Harry's death helps save many other people, then it's worth it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obscurials came later, in the Fantastic Beasts? I don't really consider these later additions canon - to be honest, there are so many plot-holes there that it drives me mad, and I have no doubts stuff like this wasn't planned from the start, so I don't take it into consideration in my interpretations and analysis. With Blood Magic, it's pretty ineffective as a whole. It doesn't protect Harry outside, and since he spends half of the day (if not longer) there, anyone interested could grab him. Him living at Hogwarts or with one of trusted Order Members would have been far more safe, but in my opinion, Dumbledore wanted a broken child with low self-esteem, and it affected his decisions.

At the same time, I have no doubts Dumbledore hated himself for this. He sacrificed people, but it was never easy for him. He was confident that he was doing the right thing, and this confidence helped him go on, but it tormented him all the same.

And I agree with you that he didn't trust himself with power and this affected some of his choices. He never became the Minister; he was wary of powerful people. This partly explains his mistakes with Tom: instead of helping a traumatized (albeit creepy) child, Dumbledore kept his distance and remained suspicious. He didn't lift a finger to help, not even when he could (and he had to know Tom was the heir of Slytherin after hearing about talking to snakes yet he still left him in he dark). I don't think Dumbledore hated Tom himself from the first sight, but rather he saw a mirror to himself and Grindelwald - someone young, powerful, and eager for public recognition. And it horrified him.

I think after Grindelwald, Dumbledore dedicated himself to protecting the world from this specific threat so thoroughly that he gave up everything for it. He sacrificed others, but he also sacrificed himself. I doubt he even hoped for Harry's forgiveness, but he still got it because that's who Harry is.

#albus dumbledore #personal #harry potter

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purplewitch156 · 3 years

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Omg 😆 thank you so much about the Dumbledore thing! I hate Dumbledore bashing so much! He’s such a great character, it upsets me that this is peoples mindset about him. It certainly manages to kill off any excitement I have for any given story.

He’s a WONDERFUL character. He’s got so much meat to him. The Grindeldore thing? That’s like tragic tomarry and it’s canon! I have always loved Dumbles. <3<3<3<3 When it comes to bashing in general, I just don’t like it, regardless of what character is under the hammer. If bashing is tagged, it’s a hard pass for me.

#dumbledore

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ashes-and-ashes · 4 years

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hiiii jegulus for 001? ❤️

Love you Aly!!

when I started shipping it if I did: It was all because of @jilylicious who broke my heart with this.

my thoughts: I love them! They’re a different dynamic then what I’m used to - I always love to write Jegulus as something impermanent, similar to Grindeldore because you know it doesn’t last. I also love the whole thing with Sirius being James’ closest friend - when he ran he essentially doomed Regulus into taking the Dark Mark right? So a lot of angst for James because he’s torn between his brother and his lover.

What makes me happy about them: I love the whole Slytherin/Gryffindor Quidditch Jock Boyfriend thing!

What makes me sad about them: THEY BOTH DIE!!! And also I think that they both knew that what they had wouldn’t last, because Reg was in line to take the Mark and James was going to join the order.

things done in fanfic that annoys me: When people bash Lily in order to make James end up with Reg. It’s annoying!

things I look for in fanfic: ANGST. I love the whole marauder fam though - James and Reg and the Marauders!

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: I’m a big Jily shipper as well! But I can’t picture Reg with anyone else at the moment...

My happily ever after for them: I think part of the reason why I love this ship is that they don’t have a happily ever after? Like it’s tragic and beautiful and heartbreaking to watch them both try and hold on even as they started to fall apart.

who is the big spoon/little spoon: James is the big spoon. Period.

what is their favorite non-sexual activity: Playing really intense one-on-one Quidditch games!

#jegulus #asks #ask games #ashly #amazing friends #character headcanons

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princesserica84 · 4 years

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If you don't like drarry, why are you reblogging art of it? Or is drarry fine but dramione isn't?

I think I’ve reblogged a few Drarry art pieces but that’s because I thought they were really beautiful or funny or also have Romione in it. I hate Dramione to no end because they bash Ron. Plus I can’t read/ship Ron or Hermione with anyone else anymore. I ship Romione so hard.

Dramione is never fine, at least to me. It sickens me and I want it to die at the bottom of the ocean.

I respect Drarry because they often respect Romione/Ron. I don’t actively ship Drarry but even I can appreciate beautiful art work of them. If you don’t like it then feel free to unfollow me. My opinions won’t be changing. This blog is for me, not you. And like I said, I don’t ship Drarry, but I respect it. Also, I very rarely will reblog Drarry stuff. I really love art work of Teddy and Harry and in a lot of these, Draco is in it. Can’t you just scroll past it when I do? My blog is all Romione with some Grindeldore on the side.

I also answered an ask about that, you can find it here.

#romione + drarry #romione #drarry #anon being stupid #you can seriously fuck off anon #anti dramione #fanart #my answer #princesserica84 #grindeldore #draco malfoy #harry potter #teddy lupin #godfather harry

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acnara · 4 years

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What are your fav harry potter parings? :D

Hmmm fun question! I enjoy most of the canon parings, not gonna lie. I also think I could ship almost anything in HP if it comes with a good fic tbh, but as all time faves? Hm.

Harrymort, for sure, the real deal hands down. I'm warming up to tomarry too, but I have always preferred harrymort (I really like the idea of how strangely linked they become in the series, the horcrux and the blood for the ritual etc. Exploring those things is just my jam... I love how Voldemort just kind of forced a soulmate-like bond between them unwillingly ha!)

Volmione/Tomione is up there too. I really like them what can I say. The intelectual circles around each other in the fics... Chef kiss.

Romione... I have never read any fics just about them (I don't really seek fics from canon couples tbh) but I LOVE them. Big part of why I dislike bashing is that I adore them and the golden trio.

I also really enjoy Dramione, Lunatrix (Thank obsidianpen for that) and Jily.

Honorable mentions go for Gin n' tonic (Ginny/Tom Riddle or LV), Hinny, Linny, Grindeldore, Jily, Bellamort (I KNOW I KNOW) and I read a fic with Voldemort/Ron and... I was very into it sue me XD. Tbh the idea of Ron getting together with ANY 'bad guys' like Pansy or Draco too is very appealing to me. Ron should be more explored just saying.

#i know what you are thinking and... no i dont really ship drarry lmao #i used to mind you #but i was the smallest stepping stone in history until i turned away from drarry to harrymort #i do enjoy draco pinning for harry tho #a lot #just not them getting together i personally don't care for them as a ship ooops #kinda same with scorbus #but as you can see i ship a TON of things lmao #but yes... i also don't ship remus/sirius #dont sue me i just couldn't care less #but i know they are huge in the fandom and good for the shippers that just ain't me XD #answered #noony #thanks for the ask tho!!! now i want to go find some fic to read ha!#well that was a looong answer lmao

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firendgold · 1 year

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Yes to this! This is one thing that's really taken my attention. It's crazy just how much Harry pays attention to Albus in the books. Description wise I mean. None of his other teachers quite get the same treatment, if you know what I mean. Albus is also the only one - to my knowledge - that Harry tends to refer to with his first name when he thinks of him. Again, especially in conjunction with his other teachers. Like, there's a moment in GoF, where Albus bursts in on him and BCJ, alongside McGonagall and Snape, and Albus is the one who gets a first name mention.

Also, I mean, this description!!!

Another thing I can't help but note, is Harry's almost jealousy regarding how much Albus shared with Grindelwald compared to himself. It's obvious just how much Harry is hurting throughout DH. He's grieving in a way I don't think he ever has - Sirius being a close second.

And on top of that, Harry also has to deal with information coming out about Dumbledore which makes him question everything. But what really unsettled him, when it came to it, wasn't Albus' misty past, but rather Albus' feelings for Harry.

He was scared that Dumbledore had never cared for him. He was scared that the reasons Albus had kept secrets from him - about himself - was because Albus didn't trust or care for him. He needed to know if Dumbledore had ever actually loved him. And that always breaks my heart. Because to the reader - and even Hermione - it was so clear that Albus did love him.

And I do think like you, that had Harry time travelled, or vice versa, these two would have been perfect for each other.

I absolutely get you and agree re: Harry and noticing his professors' physical features. Most of them get an introductory description at best, with exceptions going to Snape (for obvious reasons) and Lupin (because he just looks so underfed and just... not-taken-care-of, which probably is extremely noticeable to someone with Harry's upbringing... though that's a whole other tangent). Meanwhile, Albus' hair, eyes, glasses, and posture are remarked upon frequently. Like, frequently frequently.

When I was writing that bullet, in fact, I was thinking of another moment in GoF towards the beginning, when Harry's just arrived at Hogwarts and he's scanning the staff table. Snape gets an entire unflattering paragraph, and then Harry gives us this gem:

Harry, my dear. My beloved. Why. Why are you paying Albus this much attention. Why are you mirroring him.

It's also interesting that you bring up how often Albus gets Full Name Privilege or First Name Privilege in Harry's head, because I'm frequently arguing about the opposite elsewhere (that Albus never, ever calls Harry "Potter" or "Mr. Potter" or even "my boy" in canon, and anyone who says he does has read too much fanfic). For ship purposes, it becomes even more significant that they frequently refer to each other as if they are on equal footing.

I plan on writing a whole post someday about Harry's jealousy of Grindelwald once I can be relied upon not to turn it into a grindeldore bashing fest lmao. On the one hand, it makes sense that Harry is grieving Albus' presence in his life, since Albus was one of the most steadfast people and gave him a lot of support he desperately needed. There's no other character that wore as many hats for Harry as Albus Dumbledore did, whether he intended to or not.

On the other hand—Deathly Hallows is the book where we learn that there is so much about Albus that we and Harry never knew. We get a huge bucket of information about Grindelwald and his relationship with Albus that we never had before. And while Harry is definitely disillusioned about Albus' dark past, while he is certainly frightened of the possibility that Albus never cared about him after all (which is so STUPID, Harry, how could you not see that Albus loved you???), it is wild that what he chooses to focus on in that talk with Hermione is how much Albus shared with Gellert.

Whether he's aware of it or not, Harry often puts himself (at most a seventeen year-old boy) on the same level as both his headmaster/mentor and his headmaster/mentor's evil ex-boyfriend. I don't know, I just find it notable... and hilarious.

#casdeanwin #fireandgold #thanks for the ask!#so much of this reply is just ''YOU. ME. SAME PAGE.'' lmao #but that's a nice feeling esp in this fandom #I'm so sad that I can't go off on a separate tangent about Harry and Albus' Deep Platonic Regard For Each Other #but that's not what this blog is for lmao #time travel harrydore

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potteresque-ire · 5 years

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2019-03-30

This round of JKR bashing is depressing for me to read--and has prompted me to come out of my Tumblr shell--not because of the demands the fans are making; the call for a verbally explicit statement about Dumbledore’s sexuality in canon has been around for more than a decade. What saddens me is how people are speculating on JKR’s motivations, and how it has been done in such a derisive and insulting manner.

(Rambling under the cut...)

Speculating motivations is a futile exercise at best, a Dark practice used for framing minorities and dissidents at worst. And here we are, as collective fans, wielding this thing on someone who hasn’t harmed anyone, who has brought much joy to our lives. I can’t speculate on JKR’s motivations when she talks about Dumbledore or Grindeldore. I can’t say, with any certainty, that she’s saying X for the purpose of A or B. Yes, I’m a fan—I enjoy her works, both the Wizarding World and the Cormoran Strike series. I believe she’s a good person, an ally of our causes, based on what’s she written and the little I know about what she’s done outside her career. And that’s all there is, I admit. My conclusion on her character based on incomplete facts. I said I believe for that reason. But this is how we all function in the world—we believe. This is how we put ourselves out there. We believe none of the people who interact with are axe-murderers (who seem to have better reputation than JKR these days).

We assume people are good. We assume they’re altruistic. We assume they’re growing to become a better person. We assume these things for almost everyone we know nothing about and yet, we can’t seem to extend the same assumption, the same generosity for JKR. If social justice matters so much, how has fandom come to place more trust on people who do little more than reblogging posts on the topic, add a gif or two and a few snarky comments, than a writer who’s spent 15 years on a 3000+ page story (not counting Strike yet) with prejudice as one of its prominent themes, that has inspired real-life social justice efforts like The Harry Potter Alliance? True, the prejudices in HP may not be all relevant to the Muggle world, but the driving force behind the prejudice is the same—as those of us who come from other parts of the Muggle world can attest, those of us who know of prejudice in forms other than those prevalent in Western societies. Why is fandom so keen then, on casting JKR in such a terrible light, on creating and spreading memes that insult her and diminish her accomplishments with little/no basis on reality? From a more self-serving perspective--assuming the underlying cause is to make the HP fandom appear more “woke”--doesn’t it cast a terrible shadow on us too if the false allegations stick? Our fandom still bears the name of her work; photos of many of us in Wizarding gear are still floating on the internet. JKR rose to prominence pre-social media and her ongoing Strike series is a commercial and critical success; she doesn’t need social media “points” but we do. So why has fandom become so bash-happy when it comes to her, so comfortable with doing it for laughs and likes? Why, especially when current fandom culture is so much about critique-proofing fellow writers and artists? Are we especially cruel to JKR because she’s “made it”? Because we’ve paid her? Many fandomers are trying to break into original writing and other artistic endeavors. Does it mean that the moment they “make it” too, the moment their original work goes commercial, instead of celebrating their accomplishments we turn against them, we tell them the support, the nurturing they’ve found in fandom is history? How terrible would that be? What about the creators who already use Patreon for their fanworks? Are they open to abuse too because money has changed hands? Isn’t this a highly capitalistic mindset, when Tumblr decries capitalistic practices every day?

Why can’t we just be kind?

Many of us are still playing in JKR’s sandbox. We’re still making friends, getting kudos and followers with her world as the backdrop. No, the author isn’t dead. Fic writers know this: we can keep our stories the same, word for word, but if we change the pairing, those characters we borrow from canon, our readership drastically changes. Strong writing can significantly boost the popularity of the stories, but the popularity remains largely within a ship. The truth is, the characters JKR created attract the vast majority of our readers. Everything we gain in fandom—friendships, laughter, reviews and kudos and love—JKR has a role in it. The size of the role is debatable, perhaps, but its presence is undeniable.

In light of this then, can we please consider returning a bit of these nice things to her? A bit of love, a bit of appreciation, a bit of understanding. HP has an enormous readership and some will fall out of love with it. That’s expected. But when that happens, can we leave the fandom without also leaving a trail of hate in the community that still loves her? Can we do so without still trying to exert control, still trying to establish dominance over those who still care in the debates and narratives? (“JKR is Something and I’m Right because I started reading HP as a blastomere.”). I’m not saying there shouldn’t be discourse or critiques; there should be. When I entered HP fandom, metas were my favorite things to read. But what I’ve missed in the current discussions is the spirit of kindness, which extends to a respect for the source material and its creator, and I dearly wish for its return. Please, please be kind. Please remember there’s a real-life human behind the fantasy stories, a real-life human who has done good but isn’t perfect. Just because JKR is unlikely to read the posts doesn’t mean the things that have been said are justified. Just because she’s unlikely to see the memes doesn’t mean the jokes made in her expense, which most of us would never say face-to-face to even a stranger, which most of us would never, ever want to hear them said about ourselves, are suddenly benign.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I believe in that.

#pie speaks #j k rowling

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dumbledore-and-grindelwald · 6 years

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I am so happy there are people who like or at least don't bash Cursed Child . Also you have kept your cool despite being a Grindeldore fan and all this hysteria surrounding the next FB movie . I wish you would post more HP meta :) . I also happen to love the same ships as you and it's a pity people don't appreciate dark and twisted dynamics as much as they should . Grindleldore , Snily and Bellamort are the (un) holy trinity .Especially Grindelodre and Bellamort are quite 'atypical' and 'adult'.

Thank you. :) Frankly I post less meta these days because:

1) after my old blog got deleted… I don’t know… I guess that I don’t have as much inspiration so far.

2) I am working, going to the gym and studying on a daily basis so I am kind of tired most of the days.

3) My favorite tags don’t have as much interesting content these days for me to at least have a starting point.

That said, if you have anything specific you’d want me to post my thoughts on, don’t refrain from asking. :)

#asks

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amorremanet · 7 years

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wait so why do you have a problem with "A/B shippers feeling like you're judging them" if the ship you're talking about is keith and shiro aka an underage teenager with an adult???

First off, full disclosure: I could see Keith having a crush on Shiro, but ultimately, I see the whole thing as loving and very intensely devoted on both sides, but still ultimately familial or platonic. I can also see Lance and Keith having crushes on each other, I agree that they have a fun dynamic, and I could see them maybe working out as a romantic couple, but… eh, they’re just not my favorite VLD ship.

I’m also in favor of things like tagging, trigger/content warnings, trying to be more responsible and aware of ourselves as content-creators, and so on — but part of this means that you also have to be okay with the fact that people are going to make things that you don’t like, personally, and may even be triggered by or find abhorrent because people are not always going to be at the same place on the learning curve, people won’t always have the same opinions about what does or doesn’t constitute something, “hurtful” or offensive, and different people get different things out of the same fanworks

(e.g., most people apparently feel heartwarmed and happy when reading domestic fic about their OTPS, and that’s fine…… but for the most part, those fics do nothing for me, at best, and at worst, make me feel like there is just something wrong with me because I understand why other people want that life, but I don’t see myself ever having anything like that, and then I end up feeling like maybe I should just not even bother trying to go be part of LGBTQ spaces — not just in fandom but any and all LGBTQ spaces — because I’m probably ruining everything for everyone else).

There’s value in being open to critically discussing these things, and it’s true that tags/warnings are not always functional (e.g., a lot of people in the past have written non-con fic and tagged it as dub-con, or just not tagged it at all, because of how rape culture has made it so they don’t understand that some situations are not as consensual as they might think) — but this goes all ways. Everyone needs to be self-reflective and open to critical discussion, not just people who ship certain things or like certain tropes. Everyone needs to recognize that they are capable of doing things that hurt other people, and everyone needs to acknowledge that we are all deeply flawed beings and not always right, no matter how much we feel like we might be.

And part of that self-reflection/self-awareness needs to be accepting a degree of personal responsibility, recognizing that not everyone who likes a ship that you don’t is being irresponsible about it, being aware of things that might trigger you and staying away from them (which is never going to be a perfect system, because things like the, “Author Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings” option are vague, tags are imperfect, blacklisting shit doesn’t always work, etc. — but that doesn’t mean that anyone on any side is right while anyone else is wrong; it means that the situation is more complicated than most of us on all sides want to make it, and that nobody is helping anyone by throwing out ad hominem attacks, reductionistic arguments, and worse)

and (this is going to be a BIG point for me in here, and if it seems like I’m harping on it kind of a lot, that’s because I am) not harassing or suicide-baiting people because they ship a thing that you personally dislike or (gasp, shock, horrors) wrote a fanfic about it.

With the preamble out of the way, now it’s time for the really fun part (which will ideally be all that I have to say on the subject because, as you’ll see in here, this touches on a lot of personal shit for me that I’m much happier NOT shoving my face in all over again)

If you don’t agree with my take on things when I’m done, that’s fine. We don’t have to agree as long as we can respect each other while disagreeing — but you know what would be the best for my mental health, in terms of talking about anything, Voltron-wise? Dealing with these arguments as little as possible because I would rather not relapse into active suicidal ideation again.

Want to talk Voltron with me? Cool. All I ask is that you ask me about, for instance, my dumb college AU headcanons — which have, among other things, Hunk/Keith/Lance, Matt/Shiro, Allura/Shay, a lot of Keith & Shiro brother feels, Pidge being 15 and usually some degree of Done with everybody, and Lotor the preening douchebag fratbro — or my “#someone please help takashi shirogane” tag, or how Keith is autistic as Hell and Lance and Hunk have ADHD, not about the latest round of fans being complete assholes to each other.

Anyway, anon is speaking in reference to this post that I made while I was barely awake last night.

cw for discussion of abuse, harassment, suicide-baiting, and suicidal ideation underneath the read more.

1. Those ages are not actually canon.

Yes, they are a fair interpretation of canon, but until they are actually said in the show itself, they’re not fully fledged canon and you can’t expect everyone in the fandom to agree on them OR to know what you’re talking about when you treat them as if they’re canon

Also, not everyone keeps up with every single panel, every single interview, every single thing that TPTB say or post on social media, etc., and no one should ever *NEED* to keep up with absolutely every single piece of anything that is even remotely related to the thing they like in order to be part of the fandom — especially not when statements made by TPTB are often vague and/or self-contradictory, as statements made by TPTB often are (not specifically VLD’s TPTB, but TPTB for every fandom I have ever been in, even when there was just one creator, like JKR)

Like, if you understand that someone isn’t, “less of a fan” of Marvel or DC just because they haven’t read absolutely every story even remotely involving their faves, can’t tell you everything about the weird period where Wolverine’s backstory involved him being not a mutant in the usual sense but an actual facts wolverine who had been turned into a humanoid shape by “genetic engineering” magic, like [the movies, the Teen Titans cartoon or Young Justice or X-Men: Evolution, or whatever] more than the comics, and so on

—then you should damn well understand that someone is not, “less of a fan” for not keeping up on absolutely every single thing that TPTB say in any context ever, and that someone isn’t “wrong” or a “lesser fan” coming to an interpretation of the characters’ respective ages based solely on the show because that is the only thing they watch related to the fandom

Speaking of JKR, though: frankly, I see this age thing as being a very similar situation to how JKR “confirmed” that Dumbledore is gay…… in a special thing at Carnegie Hall, a few months after DH first came out (she made those statements in October 2007. I was a freshman in college, and everyone in the grindeldore comm on LJ absolutely lost our shit over it).

Sure, it spread like wildfire, but a ton of people at the time decided that it didn’t count as canon because it wasn’t in the books (so they were allowed to keep acting like Dumbledore/McGonagall had been canon when it hadn’t been), and someone who is just reading the books without knowing about that interview would not necessarily know that Dumbledore is gay (which is entirely why JKR does not get Good Ally Cookies™ for just going, “lol he’s gay” only after all the books had been published and she’d inked all the future movie deals)

Likewise: someone who only watches the show would have no way of knowing all of the things that have been said or not about the characters’ ages (I am literally only vaguely aware of it because of having friends on all sides of the debate and hearing about different parts of everything from them)

Until the ages that some people assign to Shiro and Keith (and everyone else, besides) are actual facts, in the show canon, treating them as if they are isn’t fair or accurate, and you can’t hold people accountable for it when it’s not in the show and the extra-canonical statements don’t actually agree with each other

and 2. (way more importantly) Because I have seen the receipts on people harassing, suicide-baiting, abusing, etc. people over shipping Keith/Shiro romantically, and aside from the fact that the ages people are using to justify said behavior are not hard-facts, full truth canon, I don’t believe that it is ever right or acceptable to tell other human beings to kill themselves, that they deserve to die, or similar just because they have a different read on canon and/or like a different ship than you do.

Don’t tell me that nobody does that, because I’ve seen the receipts about how they very much have.

To be fair, I have also seen receipts about bad behavior from the Keith/Shiro shippers and I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen.

I’m saying that I’ve seen a lot more of it from the people bashing the Keith/Shiro shippers and I understand why Keith/Shiro shippers might feel uncomfortable or judged or like I’m going to attack them just because I love the Keith and Shiro relationship as much as they do, I just don’t ship it romantically.

I’m also not saying that there aren’t good points on all sides… but all sides ALSO have a lot of points that are, frankly, full of shit.

Don’t tell me that it’s only a vocal minority who does this, because that might be true (in my experience, it almost certainly is), but until the silent majority stands up and tells said “vocal minority” that suicide-baiting people is not okay, then the relative sizes of their contingents does not fucking matter — because the people doing the suicide-baiting are still allowed to continue doing it.

Look. On one hand, I am sensitive to this, because I have personally been harassed, cyberstalked, suicide-baited, and worse in other fandoms — all because I didn’t ship one thing, I did ship others, and I tried to go, “Hey, the way that you guys are treating other fans isn’t cool and you really shouldn’t do that” when some fans treated others like shit for not liking their OTP and wanting to have some kind of space in the fandom where they could like their faves and ship their ships without every single thing being turned into S//terek some other ship

Maybe it’s just me? But as someone who has found themself needing to get put on new anxiety meds and a higher dose of their antidepressants because of people on the Internet refusing to give me peace and telling me to kill myself (or similar) over not shipping their ship and saying that they shouldn’t harass other fans — and then still found myself, at one point, counting out my anxiety meds to figure out if I could overdose on what I had, and only realized how bad this was because my head was too muddled to do the fucking math?

Yeah, you could say that I have a bias in favor of, “Don’t fucking suicide-bait people” and can understand why the behavior of some people who bash Keith/Shiro might make the people who ship it romantically feel like they’d be in danger of bashing or personal attacks from me just because I don’t personally read their relationship as one that is or could be romantic

On the other hand: I’m sensitive to this because I have also done a lot of shit that I’m not proud of while trying to go, “Hey, guys, this pattern or this behavior in the fandom is pretty racist, ableist, misogynistic, abusive, or whatever, otherwise gross; it’s not cool and we should stop enabling it.”

I understand where a lot of the intensity comes from, on the parts of the people who believe that they’re trying to make their fandoms of choice into better and/or safer spaces, more accessible to more people and more fun for more people — and in theory, I support the move to make fandoms safer…… but I can’t support a practice of doing this that repeats so many of the same mistakes that have hurt people before, have hurt me personally before, and/or that I personally did that hurt other people before.

Also? Because I have been there, done that, and gotten approximately twenty-seven t-shirts, I know how easy it is to lose sight of what you think you are doing, how easy it is to lose perspective on what you’re doing, and how easy it is to start doing shit that actively hurts people (and not to any constructive end), while you are nominally trying not to hurt people

So, I’m not unsympathetic to the people who’ve been bashing Keith/Shiro shippers and I don’t think that most of them are bad people — but I still know, from having been on both sides of this, that what I have seen of a lot of their behavior is doing more harm than good (and fun fact, it was the biggest reason why I didn’t watch VLD at all until my goddaughters [who are 12 and 14] watched it, fell in love, and I wanted to know what they were talking about)

TL;DR: I’m concerned about the feelings and comfort of Keith/Shiro shippers, and not making them feel uncomfortable or like they are going to be attacked if I want to venture out into their fan-spaces, because I understand that they have been targeted and hurt before, in ways that I consider to be completely unacceptable because I’ve hurt people in the same ways before and been hurt by similar behaviors

—and if you can understand that someone might not feel comfortable being friends with someone because they romantically ship a couple that you interpret as being an adult and a teenager, despite the fact that this IS NOT hard-facts canon? then you should damn well understand why someone might not feel entirely safe or comfortable being friends with someone who doesn’t romo-ship their OTP, when not romo-shipping their OTP tends to be directly correlated to shit like stalking, harassment, abusive anon comments, and fucking suicide-baiting

—and I really cannot stress enough how much the suicide-baiting point shits me, okay.

Like, I have dealt with suicidal ideation and attempts since I was eight years old. I hate and am deeply ashamed of the fact that I have ever made other people feel as low as I have when I’ve wanted to die. I still struggle a LOT with blaming myself for, “letting other people [online and offline] make me feel like that,” despite knowing that I shouldn’t blame myself and despite the fact that I have told other people NOT to blame themselves for this kind of thing before.

If I’m an irredeemably terrible person for feeling like nobody ever deserves to be suicide-baited over what they ship or don’t ship, and that, even if they don’t tag as responsibly as they could, they deserve to be treated with the bare minimum of interpersonal decency and not attacked until such point as they start actively attacking someone else in the same ways that everyone who sends harassment, suicide-baiting, etc. has done and continues to do?

—then fine, I guess I’ll be an irredeemably terrible person.

I’d rather need to have difficult discussions, try to have them in the most constructive way possible for as many people as possible, accept a flawed system in the hopes of making it better, accept that (unfortunately) there is no such thing as a perfectly safe space for everyone and that trying to make any given space safer is always going to be an incredibly difficult task that involves some degree of compromise and some kind of Choices by all involved, and try my best to treat people with empathy, compassion, and understanding

It’s not an easy solution, it’s not always a particularly comforting way to approach things, and in my experience, it will demand a LOT from anyone who wants to go this route

But I’ve made people feel terrible over things that were not nearly as “pure” or ideologically righteous or important as I thought they were, and I have been suicide-baited more than enough for one lifetime (I’ve been suicide-baited by my own mother more than enough for one lifetime, never mind having it happen in fandom spaces too), and I hope that you’ll understand if I have no desire to go back to either of those places — especially not the one where I make people feel like shit, and especially when I’m trying to be a better person and not do things like that to people

This is rambling and repetitive and has really stopped being a TL;DR summary

I’m sorry, I stand by what I’ve said but I haven’t gotten more than 5 hours of sleep a night in the past three days and it’s doing a number on my attention span

I’m done talking now

Here’s a picture of my family’s dog as a reward for making it this far (unless you’ve decided to flame me while reading, in which case this is still a picture of our dog but it’s not a reward for you, I just can’t stop you from looking at it)

(okay, I couldn’t pick just one picture of our dog, so here she is being lazy and dressed as a lobster for Halloween, respectively)

#tangentially since i brought it up: happy 10th birthday to harry potter & the deathly hallows #but in all seriousness: i would appreciate it if this is all that i need to say on this subject #there's a reason why i generally don't talk about this shit in public anymore #and the reason is that i don't like being in a suicidal headspace #so i'm taking personal responsibility and trying to stop doing things that put me there #like for instance engaging with debates where people have been suicide baited #when man i just want to have sad headcanons & know how i'm supposed to tag them #so that i don't end up unwittingly hurting someone else (and preferably do not get suicide-baited again but in a new fandom)#ask box tag #opinions for ts #wank for ts #fandom shenanigans #mine: fandom blah blah blah #kassie hush #kassie watches netflix voltron #suicide baiting cw #suicidal ideation cw #Anonymous

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