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tuiyla · 1 year

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what do you think santana’s coming out would have been like if she hadn’t been outed?

Oh man that's a question and a half. I was legit so thrown off by that. Not in a bad way! Always appreciate Santana questions, always. I just spend so much time being mad about what actually happened and being absolutely appalled by Glee dropping the ball this badly, it's hard to even approach the topic without that in mind. Even while thinking about this I caught myself wanting to curse the canon events out multiple times. But I'll show restraint and pretend, for a few blissful minutes, that season 3 doesn't exist the way it does. This post is going to be more of what I would have liked to see instead of what realistically could have happened because Glee lost out on my willingness to care about their established boundaries when they vomited The Outing scene onto my screen.

In my ideal world, Santana would have been allowed the baby steps she deserved. Sure, she was way deep in the closet in season 2 but by the end we see progress. She's so clearly isn't ready yet and that's fine, in this timeline we're not pressuring her in any way. It's early season 3 and she and Brittany are officially together but only they know it. It's a bit of an open secret in the Glee Club, too, but everyone, and I mean everyone knows better than to think it's any of their business. Around the time of one of the the Troubletones rehearsals Mercedes catches Brittana making out and Santana freaks out, initially. Brittany reassures her that Mercedes is their friend and it's fine and later we get a Sancedes scene. Santana at first tries to deflect but Mercedes lets her know that she isn't there to judge or anything, she just gives the advice that Santana would be happier if she embraced herself and all that usual Glee speech. After the Troubletones WRONGFULLY lose Sectionals and Quinn gets the girls back and Santana sees how ND welcomes them with open arms, she makes a decision.

It feels safer to make a public Glee announcement first. They sing a duet with Brittany and Britt does the talking because Santana is more comfortable letting the song (Melissa Etheridge's Come to My Window, maybe?) speak for her. No one is shocked but they're all supportive, especially the people who matter (*cough* the girls and Klaine *cough*). Will tries to make a speech, blah blah, it's just a wholesome scene. Ideally a Kurtana scene follows because this is my headcanon I do what I want.

Now people who already sort of knew are in the clear but it's limited to the Glee Club and none of them blabber to other students, particularly not in the hallway because they're good people who love and support Santana. Based on Santana's heartbreaking "I haven't even told my parents yet" I'm going to choose to infer that she was thinking about it. She's terrified and needs a Pierce family dinner, together with a supportive Whitney and Pierce Pierce to convince her she's ready for this. We get to see the actual scene, around Christmas time, with Gloria Estefan and Dr. Lopez and it's emotional but cathartic. They're with Santana, no matter what, though her dad does have an ominous line about Alma. Not in a rude way but in a way when a parent fears what might await their kid. Santana staunchly refuses the subject of Abuela and asks her parents not to say anything to anyone.

The school year goes on. Valentine's Day comes around and following some homophobic shenanigans at McKinley and Figgins revealing the same double standard as he did in Heart, somehow, Santana decides to take a stand. She kisses Brittany very publicly in school one day and maybe we do get a slightly altered version of the Heart God Squad storyline. Except she gets to beat up Joe because I said so. All is relatively well. Santana and Brittany are now practically out to the school and Santana shows concern every now and then, but she feels lighter. This timeline actually deals with the fact that she wouldn't suddenly have no fears about being out and jerks exist, but it's easier that she did it on her own terms and not through a political ad.

Regionals rolls around and Dave is outed. I'm sorry David in this timeline your fate is unfortunately still the same. We get the attempt but thankfully Dave survives and recovers. Santana visits him in the hospital, they have a conversation and it makes her realize that life's too short to be terrified of who she is. The final puzzle piece in this portion of her coming out story? Abuela Alma. And so Santana goes to her grandmother, tells her about having had time to reflect and the coming out goes much the same as it did in the only valid IKAG scene. And Alma rejects her much the same, breaking Santana's heart and causing her to lash out at the people who have been supporting her these past few months. After the initial shock of just having been disowned, she picks herself up and thinks about Dave and how she can't let others' opinions of her define her life. Santana's clearly shaken from the experience and it gets brought up time and again but she marches on.

Santana starts college and decides she's going to be upfront from the first moment on. She tells people about her girlfriend, how proud of her she is, how much she loves Brittany. When they break up, the strength fades as Santana already wasn't feeling the whole Louisville vibe. Canon events ensue, and when she moves to New York she gets to truly just be herself and live her sexuality for the first time. That doesn't just mean sleeping around, thought some of that too. When she gets together with Dani and meets her cool queer friends, Santana feels at peace. It took a minute, but she's fine with casually dropping the word lesbian and introducing herself as, well, herself.

I know that last bit wasn't necessary for the coming out journey itself but it's good for my soul to think about. I can't say what I've written is tremendously exciting but imo it's what she damn well deserved. This didn't actually answer your question in that I don't think this is what would have happened; Glee demonstrated that they had no desire to follow through on Santana's story with the care it deserved. But it is what I'd like to think.

#anon #santana asks #glee asks #santana's coming out #no one has asked me this before which feels strange #but thank you for the opportunity anon #gleewrite

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deliciouskoalaphantom · 2 years

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Wedding Photographer Birmingh

Wedding Planning

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You've picked a date. Excellent thing, too, due to the fact that there are literally a thousand things to arrange before the big day. You find your fianc?'s ardor for the event itself seems to have actually cooled. And preparing a wedding event isn't a job developed for one. What to do? Here are ten methods to include him without increasing both of your tension loads: 1) Delegate areas that have a prayer of fascinating him. The worst thing you can do is anticipate him to match your ten to twenty years of womanly wisdom on the relative merits of buttercream vs. fondant. Here are some probable no areas when trapping an unwilling wedding event coordinator: Picking the cake frosting Selecting the favors or favor product packaging Picking the wedding event colours or floral arrangements Then there are the prospective maybes, fraught with less threats: Selecting the professional photographer Selecting the videographer Arranging the practice session dinner Arranging the extensive honeymoon Leasing big, tricky items like outdoor tents These are probable yeses, well worth running by your person: Picking the DJ or the band Establishing and preserving your wedding event website Looking into and picking charities, if you choose to contribute instead of giving out favors Establishing the carriage, limousine or other transportation arrangements

2) If you ask him to assist you choose designs and suppliers, narrow down the options first. It's a jungle of choices out there, enough to offer the most natural-born party coordinator time out. If you desire his viewpoint on photographers, welcomes, flowers or cakes, narrow down the choices to three or 4. He's less most likely to feel overloaded, and more likely to feel like a vital part of the process. Sometimes, it'll feel so great to share the load that you'll be lured to drag him into the buttercream debate in spite of your better instincts. At these times, take a deep breath, count to ten, and call your mom or your maid of honor. 3) Ask him directly for aid. Let him understand how essential his input is to you, and that you can't do it without him. Men like to be needed. Your frank request for help might be enough to pull him out of his convenience zone and onto your team. 4) Try the Art Director/Production Personnel method. If you believe your person wishes to assist, but feels uncomfortable playing "art director," offer him "production staff" jobs. Have him make the payments, pick up the food or design, deal with the rentals, do online window shopping, or reserve the hotels and reception halls. These are all tasks that will take a load off your shoulders, while maximizing time for the visual stuff you probably enjoy and he doesn't. 5) Get a calendar and put all the planning in white and black. Your fianc? probably doesn't have the very first clue in what enters into a wedding event. Get your wedding event coordinator, compose all of it down, and show him. Once he gets over the shock, you'll both probably have the ability to identify areas that interest him. Make lists of the things you've each agreed to do, and cross them off as they get done. At least, he'll be even more encouraging when he sees what you're going through. 6) Weave his family heritage/ethnicity/traditions into the ceremony. He might ask his moms and dads about their wedding event, and find your wedding event as a result enriched. Look through their wedding event album together. Integrate some old-world traditions into your ceremony. 7) Don't bring him in too early. Treat your fianc? as a bit of a pinch player. If he's like most guys, the wedding event won't end up being genuine to him till it draws closer. 8) Discuss something besides the wedding event. Men aren't the only ones who complain about brides-to-be talking of nothing but upcoming nuptials. Often, even sweethearts get overwhelmed by all the wedding event chatter. Invest some time alone talking about anything but the wedding event. See a ridiculous movie, split a hot fudge sundae, or enjoy a basketball video game. Do something spontaneous that reminds you both of why you decided to marry in the first place. 9) Inspect your subtext for concealed significances. Appealing as it might be, ensure you're not utilizing your fianc? as a coin-toss tool (ever noticed how individuals turn coins to discover what they really desire?). When you request his viewpoint, take it seriously. And when you offer him ownership of a job, do not second-guess every action. Picture that your fianc? has informed you he's going to prepare a dream team in his dream football league, and it's going to cost him $20K to take part. Now think of that he's informed you your aid is very essential to him. Ideally he 'd invite your ideas, nevertheless odd it felt for you to venture them. Now envision your fianc? feels kind of like that when it comes to the wedding event. 10) Remember that males end up being wedding event experts by having one. Possibilities are, your sweetheart will open his eyes to the marvel of a wedding event by the time the increased petals are tossed. 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laufire · 3 years

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(CW for mentions of csa)

A lot of Commonly Accepted (Often Through Uncritical Repetition) Wisdom in fandom leaves me baffled, when not straight up ticked off, but one that's been on my mind lately, that never fails to bring a scrunched up expression to my face, is the idea that Bela Talbot's backstory was some last minute add-on to her character.

You might argue that the reveal was rushed since the writers caved in and killed her off against their original plan (or at the very least, earlier than). Or that using abuse is a trite way to raise sympathy for an antagonistic character. You could even say that some of the finer details might’ve not been set in stone until they sat down to write her exist, although that one is dubious. But I’m never really going to buy that Bela’s backstory hadn’t been already planned, likely in big part.

The reason why is Season Three Episode Six, “Red Sky At Morning”, Bela’s second episode, co-written by Eric Kripke himself. As all episodes with Bela were, may I add; which means he had a hand in crafting her story from the beginning, as creator, director, and writer.

There Dean, a character that has been shown as sharp and intuitive (although his success rate ain’t that great when it comes to Bela, admittedly xD), immediately pegs her as someone with Issues TM, asking “how did she get like this”. He even taunts her by referencing her father, showing off his talent to hit where it hurts by asking if he “didn’t give her enough hugs”, ‘cause he’s classy like that. This visibly affects Bela, changing her demeanor in their conversation, from more playful to defensive. Hell, I remember during my first watch in real time this moment, especially paired with the rest of the episode, was when I first thought it was possible she came from an abusive family.

Because, c’mon. This whole episode is about parricide. The monster of the week is a ghost who haunts those that “spilled their own family’s blood”. We get two other examples: a woman whose accidental car crash killed her cousin, and two brothers who killed their father for the inheritance. Clearly, the ghost doesn’t have a narrow criteria when it comes to means or culpability -which makes sense given his particular story: he was tried for treason and his brother, the captain of the ship, issued the sentence.

And just as we find out this information... Bela sees the ghost ship that foretells her death. This, paired with the insinuations about an unsavvory past and her discomfort at the mention of her father, aren’t a wealth of information, but they start to paint a picture. We now know for a fact that Bela caused the death of at least one relative (mom and dad); that she wouldn’t have needed to do it directly (she made a crossroads deal); and that she might’ve had a sympathetic motive (her father sexually abused her and her mother turned a blind eye).

That scene offers some more tidbits of information about her past that seem too in tune with 3x15 to be coincidental, and that absolutely break my heart: Bela’s “You wouldn’t understand. No one did.“ and “I’ll just do what I’ve always done. I’ll deal with it myself”. See, I always thought Bela must’ve told people, when she was a kid. That she reached out for help not just to her mother, but to everyone around her that she thought could’ve help: teachers, maybe even law enforcement; adults that should’ve being worthy of that trust and protected her. Except no one did (and the fact that her family seemed to be not only very rich but influential paints a very bleak picture that surely contributed to her cynic view of the world). So she took matters in her own hands, and sold her soul for ten years of relative safety and freedom from her abusers.

To tie it all up, her final scene in that episode offers some more moments that again, are very in line with her backstory. We see how she treats relationships as transactionals: she pays ten grand to the Winchesters for saving her life, like she paid with her soul. Dean, again, draws attention to her likely messed up past by calling her damaged, and she replies that “takes one to know one”. Terrible childhood, ammirite. The show wasn’t been subtle here: it’s telling us Bela has a terrible past, like the Winchesters do, but of a different kind that has resulted in a different kind of person. So yeah, I think all the facts were hinted at back in 3x06.

We could go even futher back and point out 3x03, Bela’s introduction. One of the very first things she says in the show, during her first face to face with Dean (a character that just condemned his soul to Hell), is “We’re all going to Hell, Dean. Might as well enjoy the ride”. Sure, it could be an incredibly fortuitous coincidence; as a writer, I’ve had those and they’re damn great. But it seems VERY lucky, and more likely to be a case of the kind premeditated, well-placed foreshadowing that Kripke excels at.

So, okay. I’ve established why I think Bela’s backstory wasn’t a spur of the moment decision. But why is there a notable narrative in fandom that it IS?

First thing first, I want to get something out of the way: you don’t have to like it even if it was planned ahead. I understand it’s a very thorny subject, and to make matters worse, it’s inherently tied to her death. You might even be fine with the what, but not with how it was dealt with (although personally, I appreciate that neither the abuse nor her death were shown onscreen. In fact, the worse violence we see Bela on the receiving end of in her run is Dean’s threats and manhandling, which seems like a very purposeful choice ngl. Even Gordon freaking Walker was gentler lmao).

But I do disagree with some extended fandom opinions on the topic, and I guess that’s what the post is about. For one, I don’t see how the show “condemned” or morally judged Bela in this scenario. If anything, they clearly wanted to make her sympathetic, AND they showed Dean as being in the wrong by robbing him of information. Dean’s opinion on Bela couldn’t count for shit, for once, because he didn’t have the full picture; because Bela had deemed him UNWORTHY of the full picture, and thus anything he had to say on her couldn’t be taken at face value (except this is Supernatural, so I guess this was a little too much to ask of some people?). I think saying that just because Bela died and went to Hell as a consequence of her deal, IN THE SAME SEASON the same happened to our co-lead, because the writers deemed her evil and irredeemable is simplistic at best, and the audience projecting their own feelings (or being unable to see past Dean’s) onto the writing.

All that said, to go back to the initial point of all of this xD: WHY does fandom seem to insist on viewing this narrative choice as some cheap last minute addition?

There might not be one explanation that fits all, but I have a few ideas. One is that, if this wasn’t planned for and hinted at from early on, some people might feel as if this “absolves” them of their previous (and disgustingly hateful and misoginistic) reactions to Bela. Others will see this as absolving Dean, and maybe even Sam to a lesser extent, for not helping her and for being callous towards her; if her tragic backstory was this artificial, rushed choice made by Those Writers, then Dean wasn’t responsible for reprehensible attitudes towards someone who deserved his compassion (and it can’t be denied that this fandom loves absolving Dean of responsibility lmao). And a lot people are probably only repeating what they've heard from others as the accepted narrative, especially those that didn't even watch all of s3 if at all (Castiel is my fave too, but seriously, s1-3 are worth it).

It’s like they’re creating this imaginary separation between Bela pre-reveal, and Bela post-reveal, to make the situation easier to themselves. See, Bela pre-reveal was this annoying bitch who inconvenienced and embarrassed our leads (not to mention dared have chemistry with them), and thus deserved to be punished for it; or, if we’re going with more modern fandom sensibilities, she can be made to fit into the shallow #GirlBoss mold, with a side of “Secretly A Lesbian And Therefore Not A Romantic Threat” flavour -the current preferred method to make controversial female characters more palatable.

The reveal throws a wrench into this narrative. “Bitch who deserves her comeuppance” is a hard sell when you’re talking about a character who survived csa. And a shallow #GirlBoss reading doesn’t work if you have to acknowledge that Bela was one of, if not the most tragic characters in the entire run of Supernatural.

She spent over half her life at the mercy of her abuser(s), hurt by those who should’ve loved her and protected her most. The rest of her life was extremely lonely, with seemingly only a cat as company, and a surface-level freedom that hid under the sentence that loomed over her head. She died without a single friend, or a simple show of kindness and compassion, without anyone bothering to fight for her. And then she ended up tortured for who knows how long until she became one of her torturers.

All of that is extremely difficult to digest. And when things are hard to swallow, people do as people do, and they try to simplify them. So, sure. Bela’s reveal wasn’t ever hinted at, it’s completely removed from her character and the person we met, and is not even worth trying to fit into the narrative. Sounds easy.

#talking to the void #my thoughts #spn thoughts #supernatural #bela talbot #bitter lau tag #fandom nonsense #spn 3x15 #spn 3x06 #spn s3

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sweetteaanddragons · 3 years

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Here am I again bc apparently the Silmarillion™️ now lives in my head rent free and I like ur interpretation of the characters (some of ur fics also live in my head rent free) ... Do u think things would improve or go more horribly wrong if Feanor was the youngest Finwean? Like if Miriel was the second wife? Idk if everything is less or more of a disaster bc in one hand I think Fingolfin is a tiny bit more well adjusted than Feanor at least when his mother is the one living (Unless he like Feanor would feel a lil bit threatened by his lil brother genius? Is he being replaced here?) and there’s also the fact that I hope that Feanor would be a little less of a disaster If his mother lived (Unless he convinced himself that he has to be better than everyone if he wants her to stay or something like that) but on the other hand that family is a powder keg waiting to explode no matter what u change

Ps: Is Feanor still Finwe favorite child or does this change bc he’s not the only living reminder of the wife he loved and lost? Bc if he’s still the favorite I don’t think that would help with the feelings of “is dad replacing us?” That could possibly arise in his other children.

If Feanor is still the favorite I suppose there’s a little more protectiveness now that he’s the youngest...

Ps 2: Does Feanor being younger affect the age of his children by much 🤔

Thank you! This one took some thought.

Okay, so the initial change is easy enough. Finwe marries Indis, Indis dies in childbirth . . .

And that brings up the first question.

Which child?

Fingolfin? It’s certainly a possibility, but then we have to consider what’s going to happen without Finrod and Galadriel. (And his other sons, but they’re less impactful.)

Findis or Lalwen? Do they even exist in this AU?

Or Finarfin?

If it’s the last, then we also have to consider what the age gap between all these kids is in this AU and how their feelings about little baby Arafinwe are complicated by this.

We also have to consider how the political situation gets even trickier.

Because Indis wasn’t just the Queen of the Noldor.

She was also a princess of the Vanyar.

Which means that while the Vanyar may not get a direct say in what goes down with a potential remarriage, they are definitely going to have an Opinion on it.

I feel like there is probably at least one frosty offer to foster the children that Finwe immediately turns down.

For the sake of argument, let’s say that Findis is on the cusp of adulthood. She is politely present at the marriage ceremony and stays a very precise, very respectable length of time afterward before going to visit her relatives indefinitely.

Nolofinwe, as the crown prince, stays. He has a lot of feelings about the collapse of his once happy feeling, but he’s well into his adolescence and used to hiding things at court. He mostly reacts by emotionally shutting down and very politely refusing to talk to his father about it. He daydreams about storming the gates of Mandos and demanding his mother back.

Lalwen is just on the verge of adolescence and would prefer to spend as much time in the trees in the gardens as possible. She is torn between wanting to play with her baby brother and wanting to avoid him.

Arafinwe is old enough that he is aware that Miriel is not his mother but young enough that most of what’s going on is flying over his head. He warms up to Miriel almost immediately and then spends a few weeks avoiding her out of a vague idea that if he’s around her too much, she’ll die.

That eventually gets more or less cleared up.

So then Miriel has Feanaro! And Miriel - what?

Is fine?

Dies? (Finwe is pretty sure he’s cursed. Arafinwe figures baby Feanaro is like him and they should stick together. The gossips are going wild.)

Survives but is unwell?

Let’s go with that one.

So the thing is, Feanaro is not Feanaro if he does not have something to throw himself against. In canon, it’s his determination to not be replaced in his father’s affections. Here, it’s his determination that he be considered worth it. Worth all the gossip about marred marriages and what comes of them; worth all the trouble with the Vanyar; worth the fractures between his half-siblings and his father; worth his mother’s illness and pain.

What he has going for him, though, is that his mother is still alive and supporting him. He still loves language and still has Opinions on the language shift, but he’s not as ride-or-die about it as in canon; his mother is still alive, queen, and perfectly capable of insisting on whatever pronunciation of her name that she likes, even weakened.

The thing about his relationship with his siblings is that in this AU, they get to set the tone. They’re the ones establishing that tone when he’s still too young to have an opinion on it.

He has almost no relationship with Findis. She sends very polite notes and very respectable gifts on all appropriate occasions; his mother reciprocates on his behalf until he’s old enough to do it, at which point the gifts get a little half-hearted or pointed, depending on the year.

Nolofinwe is . . . fine, but distant. Feanaro doesn’t understand him at all and doesn’t really care to try.

Nolofinwe is also established as the crown prince, and it doesn’t occur to Feanaro to try to take it from him. Politics are boring, court is infuriating, and his projects are much more interesting. Sure, Feanaro is convinced he’s the smartest person in the room, and he wants to be listened to, but in his father’s court, he mostly is already. He’ll poke at Nolo, sometimes, but he has no interest in trying to usurp him. Of course, if something ever does happen to Atar and Nolo does become king, then the distance between “not willing to fight you for the throne” and “actually willing to treat you as an authority figure I should obey” is going to become apparent very quickly.

As long as Nolo doesn’t tell him to do anything he wasn’t going to do anyway, they’ll be just fine.

Lalwen is fun, but, due to the age gap, is more of an impromptu babysitter than a playmate. As they get older, they’re genuinely affectionate, but it’s complicated by the family mess and made more so by the political one; Lalwen always takes Nolo’s side, and Feanaro has no patience for it.

Arafinwe . . . Arafinwe is a different story.

Arafinwe is a lonely little kid who latches onto his new little half-brother and takes him everywhere and shows him everything in the early days when everyone is still really unsure whether or not Miriel is actually going to die. This closeness remains even after those concerns mostly pass.

What happens from there is . . . I have no idea. Probably not worse of a disaster, but maybe not notably better either.

#long post #headcanon #silmarillion #au

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athenagrantnash · 3 years

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Gunpowder Milkshake review

There are four elements to a film that, when all are achieved, can elevate a film from “good” to “great”; and any film that can achieve at least two of these elements is certainly a good and enjoyable film.

These elements are (in no particular order)*:

Aesthetic

Cast (charm, likeability, acting skill, etc)

Characters

Writing (story, script, dialogue etc.)

*While all four elements are important, writing is in my opinion the most important of the four.

So does Gunpowder Milkshake achieve all of these elements? Let’s discuss. (not a spoiler free review)

1) Aesthetic

I cannot say enough good things about the aesthetic of this film. The lighting, the camerawork, the set design, the costumes, it is all top notch. There is never a moment where what you are looking at isn’t visually engaging.

One of my favorite elements is how much is said about each character based on their costumes.

Karen Gillan’s Sam wears an orange jacket for the majority of the film - a jacket she stole because she didn’t like the clothing provided for her. Early in the film it’s established she doesn’t quite know what kind of assassin she is - she is as undefined as her jacket. But there’s a sportsmanship about her, as she won’t kill the three stooges when they aren’t trying to kill her, and she draws the line at ever letting a child be in danger.

Chloe Coleman’s Emily spends the entire movie in a yellow coat - representing the optimism and joy that comes with childhood innocence, an innocence that at the end is marred by the blood red handprint across the back of her coat.

The clothes worn by Angela Bassett’s Anna May, Carla Gugino’s Madeleine, and Michelle Yeoh’s Florence are all very similar, but specific to each character.

Anna May wears dark blue - signifying depth and power - and she has more layers than anybody else - Madeleine has the sweater/jacket, Florence has the vest, and Anna May has both. And just like her clothing, she has layers. You can sense the power and ferocity, and anger that lies rippling just below the surface, only just barely kept in check.

Florence wears green - signifying serenity - , and her outfit has nothing loose or soft about it. She is exactly as she appears to be - exactly as a tiger stalking its prey appears to be - quiet, contained, serene... deadly. It’s her serenity that keeps Anna May’s ferocity in check, but don’t mistake that for safety.

Madeleine wears pink - signifying kindness - and instead of Florence’s vest or Anna May’s vest/suit jacket combo, she instead wears a soft sweater. She is kind, trusting to her instincts, and protective of Emily. But her kindness is not weakness - just look at her weapon of choice if you disagree.

And while everybody else is wearing bright and/or striking colors, Sam’s orange jacket, Emily’s yellow coat, Anna May’s blue suit, Florence’s green vest, Madeleine’s pink sweater, Scarlet - completely at odds with her name - is wearing colors that are practically nondescript. She has isolated herself from the other Librarians, and that’s shown in a beautifully subtle way through her clothing. And yet, in a further note of subtlety, she is wearing soft oranges, showing her connection to Sam (also in orange) and how that connection is what brings her back from her isolation. Her clothing is loose, but not soft, reflecting a deceptive casualness, which matches her personality perfectly.

I’m not even going to touch on the visual brilliance of the lighting, set design, and camerawork because words literally will not do it justice. You just have to watch and see for yourself.

Additionally, an argument can be made that, since “action” is not its own category, that would fit into this section too - and while it’s literally impossible to top how visually engaging the lighting/set design/camerawork/etc. are, the action is certainly on par with it. The fights are all incredibly fun and creative, and they take advantage of the setting they are placed in, the road blocks or handicaps the characters have to work with, and at no point ever feel stale, repetetive, or boring.

So where does this movie rank in aesthetic? 5/5

2) Cast

There is not a weak link in this entire cast! Karen Gillan, Lena Heady, Angela Bassett, Michelle Yeoh, Carla Gugino, Paul Giamatti - every single one of these actors has proven time and again how much talent, charm, and onscreen charisma they have. Relative newcomer Chloe Coleman legitimately holds her own, even among such a star-studded cast, and is simultaneously sympathetic, charming, likable, and absolutely adorable.

Even bit players like the three stooges that Sam takes out, Emily’s dad, the doctor, and Jim McAlester play their roles to perfection.

As a side note, am I the only one who was a little bit disappointed that McAlester’s first name was Jim? It would have been hilarious if his first name was Kevin, and then we could have drawn our own conclusions about the criminal turn Kevin McCallister’s life took when he truly embraced his childhood propensity for chaos.

So where does this movie rank in cast? 5/5

3) Characters

This is where the movie starts to falter a little bit. Every single character is likable, but a lot of that can be attributed to how excellent the cast is.

Most of the characters are fairly cookie cutter, and while there is nothing about them that is particularly annoying or stereotypical, none of them have enough depth to truly be “great” characters.

The closest any character has to having any sort of depth or complexity is Nathan, who - while he doesn’t hesitate to send an entire army after Sam - sends her a private message and provides the only help he can.

Not that any of the characters are bad - I think my analysis of the lead lady’s clothing proves my opinions on that pretty conclusively - but they could have been better

Additionally, at just under 2 hours there is barely enough time to develop them properly. Florence in particular could have been much further fleshed out in ways that are not solely inferred through the costume design and acting.

The relationships between Emily and Sam, Sam and Scarlet, Scarlet and Anna May, Sam and Madeleine, Anna May and Madeleine, and Madeleine and Emily are done fairly well. I understood each dynamic and how it worked in the larger story that was unfolding. Florence had none of that - to the point that (if not for the inferred analysis based on clothing) I’m still not entirely sure if she or Anna May was the de facto leader of the librarians. If they had added something - either her legitimately having a moment where she takes charge or (even better) establish a rivalry between Florence and Anna May over who is in charge that would have done a lot, but unfortunately as it stands Florence didn’t get the development that Michelle Yeoh deserved.

So where does this movie rank in characters? 3/5

4) Writing

If the movie started to falter a bit when it came to its characters, it faltered even more when it came to the writing. In fact it’s the writing that can be blamed for the characters not given the development they should have gotten, even if these are two different categories.

And yes, it’s an action film, so technically the plot takes second place to the fisticuffs and gunplay - and while I’m not going to hold the genre against the film, even as an action film the script could have been a lot stronger.

Most importantly, the movie should have been at least thirty minutes longer in order to allow more growth and development for each of the characters. One scene that should have been in the movie was one of Emily while she was captured by McAlister. He should have tried to turn her against Sam, not realizing that the revelation that he had killed her dad had already done that. But Emily is smart, and the more he talks the more she realizes she’s directing her anger at the wrong person. Then when Sam turns herself in so that she’ll be safe it solidifies it for her - Sam might have pulled the trigger, but she’s not the heartless killer that she should be angry at.

And that is just one example of how a longer runtime and a few more rewrites could have given the story and characters a lot more depth.

Now onto the white elephant in the room.

“There’s a group of men called the firm” (yes, I’m going there... somebody has to).

I get what the film was going for, but this is the most perfect example of why it needed one or two more rewrites. 1) If it’s a group of men, why is Sam working for them and why is she recognized as the best at what she does? The movie is trying to imply inherent sexism, but because it felt the need to slam us over the head with that line all subtlety was lost.

Sam could have just called it “a group” and then we the audience would see that while men and women work for them, the ones calling the shots are all men. And then to turn around and show how much more prepared, professional, and competent the Librarians are would make this point in a much more subtle and compelling way. There is a lot more power in using that kind of storytelling than in explicitly telling your point to the audience in so many words.

However, while most movies that go this route make all their male characters useless or stupid, Gunpowder Milkshake did manage to not do that. Other than the three stooges, which Nathan chose to send after Sam because he didn’t want her killed, therefore by design are supposed to be useless, all of the people that our mains go up against feel like legitimate threats.

And I’m glad, because as a woman I do not like the recent tendency to turn men into useless idiots and then imply that is the only way the women managed to defeat them. I want women going up against men who are at their best, and still win. And this movie did that.

Additionally, I will say that the whole “group of men” thing is a minor quibble on my part, as it doesn’t fall into the pitfalls most other movies who are making this point fall into. But it is unfortunately an example of why the writing could have been much better.

Add in some awkward dialogue that only worked because of how ridiculously charming and likable everybody in the cast is, and we unfortunately have writing that is sub par and does not live up to the standards set by the other three elements. The aesthetic, the cast, and even the characters deserved better writing.

As a side note: Where do these people get their milkshakes that they manage not to melt even after three hours? Because that’s some circa 3000 level galaxy brain and I want it.

So where does this movie rank in its writing? 2/5

Conclusion:

I said at the top that for a movie to be “great” it has to meet all four elements, but to be "good” it only has to meet two, and Gunpowder Milkshake definitely meets two of the elements.

Where it begins faltering and falls short of being “great” is in the characters and the writing, which is a shame because the brilliance of the cast and the genuinely engaging and breathtaking aesthetic deserved to be in a movie that can be called great.

I would love a sequel to this movie that does flesh out the relationships better, provide more depth to the characters, and allows for the writing to match the quality of the cast/aesthetic.

So what is my total ranking for this film? 3.5/5

It’s good, and I will definitely watch it again and recommend it to people, but it so easily could have been great.

#gunpowder milkshake #karen gillan #lena heady #angela bassett #michelle yeoh #carla gugino #look at that I managed to actually be professional and write a whole interview that didn't include simping over A ngela B assett #y'all should be proud of me

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kitkatopinions · 3 years

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Okay, let’s talk about what I think is the biggest problem with Summer Rose. I don’t think it’s unrealistic for Ruby to react the way she has to Summer Rose and information about her from a character standpoint, but there wasn’t enough emphasis on her throughout the show to make me interested in her and specifically in how Ruby feels about her.

A lot of protagonists have at least one dead parent, and it doesn’t always feature prominently in the story they’re in - instead used as an excuse why the kids can do whatever they want without having to worry about parental figures, or backstory for why they’re the way that they are. But when the parents are treated as more significant, it’s better to make them consistently featured. It makes total sense for Ruby to not talk much or even think much about the mother that she lost when she was between the ages of two to four, but starts to talk about her more and be emotional about it once she gets some down time and during a time of personal crisis, especially as she’s learning new knowledge about what happened to Summer. That makes total sense from a character point of view. But as a viewer, I honestly didn’t care at all about Summer Rose past ‘why is Yang acting like Raven is her mom.’ Her grave was seen during the Red trailer, Yang talked about her in V2, and Ruby talked to her grave to start off V3 (which to me read as an ‘easy way to get exposition and remind everyone of some of the RWBY details’ scene.) And that’s it. That’s very little significance, I was given no reason to think she was going to matter to the storyline at all, I was given no reason to think she was going to matter to Ruby at all. If anything, I thought she might maybe matter to Yang, who clearly remembered her and who the story went out of their way to have talk about her, but then Yang didn’t talk about her mom until six seasons after the scene in volume 2. Which again, makes some semblance of sense from a character point of view, but made me think that Summer was unimportant and made me ambivalent to what was a non-character. We didn’t know anything about Summer past ‘good mom’ and ‘dead,’ for six seasons. We didn’t know anything about how Ruby felt about her mom past ‘talking to her grave one time’ and the knowledge that due to her age when Summer died, Ruby likely only has vague memories of her (if she has memories of her at all.)

Compare that to something like Harry Potter. (Quick disclaimer, as always, I’m not endorsing JKR, just comparing stories.) Time was taken out of the first book to establish not only Harry being an orphan, but Harry’s feelings towards it. Him looking in the Mirror of Erised and seeing not only his parents, but his family told us a lot about Harry’s longing for a family and to belong, and his attachment to the idea of his parents and family clearly connected to him (including through physical features that he’s been put down for having by the Dursley’s.) The first book also establishes connections to his parents through others. Hagrid knew his parents and got him a scrapbook of pictures of them, Snape hated his father, Dumbledore gave Harry his father’s invisibility cloak, and discussed the love spell his mother had made when she died, and told him about Snape and James’ ‘rivalry.’ I don’t remember if there was much connection to Harry’s parents in Chamber of Secrets, but in Prisoner of Azkaban, we start the story with Harry reacting defensively and using accidental magic (tied to emotional outbursts) when a relative starts insulting his parents, and then the whole book centers around the man who was framed for helping Voldemort murder Harry’s parents catching the real traitor, Harry meeting his father’s former best friends, getting yet another relic of his father’s, hearing more of the vague memory of his parents’ death when he’s encountered by the Dementors, thinking he had seen his father save him, etc. And the book tells us that Harry’s light based magical guardian Patronus takes the same form his father’s did. Then, in the fourth book, Harry resolves to face Voldemort head on whether he’ll die or not ‘like his father’ and literally sees the spirits of his parents and is able to talk to them briefly even though they’re dead through the use of a spell. In the Order of the Phoenix, Harry sees memories of his parents through Snape’s pensieve memories and his idealized versions of them (but specifically James) is challenged. He’s greatly bothered by this and seeks out advice and reassurance from his father’s friends. In the sixth book, the Half-Blood Prince, Harry gets a potions book with all kinds of recipes and useful spells written in the margins and starts thinking it might be his father’s, still desperate for a stronger connection to his parents, and at the same time, he’s interacting with a teacher who was fond of and talks about his mother. Consistently throughout the whole of the book series, people talk about James and Lily, we see the impact James and Lily had with other characters, we know how Harry feels about them, we know why Harry feels that way, we see his feelings about his parents start to adjust whenever he learns new information, we see the way their actions affect Harry’s actions.

So when Deathly Hallows rolled around and there were all these big significant moments involving Harry’s parents - visiting their graves, seeing their statue, seeing Snape’s memories, summoning their ghost forms to walk him to what he thinks will be his death - viewers might not be particularly attached to their characters, but we’re still invested, we still care about Harry’s arc with his parents, it’s pay off to a storyline that’s been a central part of the whole book series. Imagine if the only things we had heard about Harry’s parents before reading Deathly Hallows was a scene in book two about how his parents death connected to this wider issue (like the scene in Volume 2 with Yang using Summer’s death as establishing details before talking about Raven,) and a scene at the start of Prisoner of Azkaban where Harry like, talks to the pictures in his scrapbook about how he’s excited to go back to Hogwarts and how things are going with Ron and Hermione (like Ruby’s gravestone talk at the start of volume 3,) and then we still had all the significant moments centered around James and Lily in the seventh book.

It just feels like the emotional depth they’re going for with Summer was a wide swing and a miss because she never mattered to the story before. Summer was a passing plot point, and now that they’re trying to involve her more heavily, it feels boring. It feels like wasting time on something that doesn’t matter all that much when things that have been established as significant were put on the back burner (like Ruby’s relationship with Qrow, a mentor figure and parental figure, or even her relationship with Maria, who took over as a mentor figure when MKEK started to seem to want to diminish and put down Qrow’s character.) For six seasons, the audience had barely knew what Summer could possibly look like, Tai doesn’t talk about Summer, Qrow only mentions her in passing to talk about Ruby’s eyes if I remember correctly, Oz doesn’t talk about her, Yang only talks about her for one scene and that’s only to set up Raven, Ruby only talks about her for one scene and that’s to exposition at the start of a season. The only real reason to think Summer Rose would be significant to the plot at all is the Red Like Roses II song, but lots of the Ruby character songs seem a little disjointed like that. Before volume seven, I was wondering why that song even existed since Summer had so little to do with the plot of the show and specifically Ruby’s character (affected much more by Yang, her dad, her uncle, her team, Ozpin, Penny...)

It’s not a bad thing if they wanted Summer Rose to be important, I actually think it could’ve been good. Ruby feels a little stale at times compared to the friends that have bigger backstories that are gone into more, and her character could use some more interest and some more ties to Salem, so having her struggle with having a dead parent she can barely remember who was probably turned into a monster due to having the exact same power Ruby does is a good concept. But like a lot of things in RWBY, it came too little, too late, and with too little groundwork. Now it feels like they’re trying to cram extra unneeded plot into the story instead of working on what they have, now it feels out of left field, now I’m wondering why I’m suddenly being expected to care about Summer, now I’m wondering why there was so little set up for her importance. I would feel much more emotionally connected to this story plot if it had been featured more prominently. If Ruby had been set up from the start to want to be a Huntress like her mom. If Ruby had talked about Summer to Weiss or Jaune or her team, if she’d had a picture of her mom she put on her wall or something, if she’d talked about how the death affected her early on, if Tai had talked about Summer to Yang more, if maybe Ruby had asked Qrow about Summer when he told them about Oz, “Did Mom know any of this?” if maybe Maria had known Summer or something. I don’t know, I’m not a professional, I just know that they failed to write a story where Summer mattered at all until they suddenly wanted us to feel emotionally distraught over her being turned into a Grimm. Instead, I heard about the Silver Eyed Warriors getting turned into a Grimm and thought ‘maybe Mercury does have Silver Eyes and that’s what’ll happen to his character.’

The emotional depth just isn’t there with Summer in my opinion, and it’s made even worse by the fact that there’s very little we can extrapolate from her character based on her appearance. ‘Ruby, but more subdued,’ and ‘boring,’ are the only two things I can even think about her character design, which is a confusing thing for such a design heavy show that places so much emphasis on individual creativity.

#rwde #anti rwby #rwby bashing #rwby criticism #anti-rwby #anti mkek #contains RWDE content #anti summer rose #not really but better safe than sorry #I am anti JK Rowling btw #I don't support her in any way #just trying to talk about comparisons

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missjackil · 4 years

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Sam Winchester’s Character is Underappreciated

And I am not talking about the show, or the writers, but the fandom. The last couple of days I have seen many fans complaining that Sam isn’t like he was back in Saint Kripke’s days. That he lost his anger, and my personal fav “It’s like they gave his anger to Dean” and all I have to say is that you’ve missed the point entirely.

First I want to point out that Sam and Dean are two different characters. Both are very well thought out by the creators/writers and perfectly executed by Jared and Jensen. These are two brothers with relatively the same upbringing, who have gone through pretty much all the same trauma, but have handled it all differently.

Sam was pretty angry in S1, mostly about dad and wanting to go back to school Dean was angry also, mostly about wanting his family to be together. Sam wasn’t angry at all in s2, a bit in s3 but only angry when it came to Dean not acting like he cared that he was going to die and go to Hell. Sam had some anger in s4, mostly due to drinking demon blood, but we did get to see him angry in a flashback to when Dean was still dead. In s5, Sam SAYS he’s angry all the time, but WE dont see it. Mostly he acts sad and self loathing. Dean however has been angry since the beginning and still is.

If both WInchesters were angry all the time, the show would SUCK and the boys wouldnt be interesting. The show established early on that Sam is the optimist and Dean is the pessimist and has reminded us of this several times and as recently as when their mother died (again) Sam didn’t grieve the same way Dean did because Sam took comfort in the fact he knew Mom was happy, in a great place and with their father. Dean was hurt and angry that she was gone forever now and they had no hope nor chance of bringing her back. Same event, diffrent yet perfectly valid reactions.

Sam and Dean have both been through the most horrible events imaginable and yet they manage to keep it together, by staying together. The fact that they have different reactions to the same things is a big reason why they can keep it together. When one is weak, the other is strong, when one loses hope, the other gives him a reason to have it, when one loses faith, the other holds on to enough for them both. This isn’t lazy writing or favoriting one character over the other, this is where TPTB excell and do their best work. TPTB may fail in other areas but they’ve always managed to nail it with Sam and Dean’s characters.

Sam has evolved over the years into this badass hunter who is also soft and full of empathy and compassion for others. He chokes back most of his emotions in favor of pressing forward, or to show understanding to someone he cares about. Notice how he was with Mary, many times he visibly held back his anger to try and understand her reasoning. He’s choked back many tears so he could stay focused on the task before him, and you all may think its to his or the shows detriment, but its actually a good thing in this case, because when Sam DOES let out his emotions, it’s dramatic, noteworthy, and we know shit is real.

Look at the last couple seasons and to where we are now. Sam, the one who’s been optimistic for 10 years, is losing hope. Unraveling before our eyes and saying he feels like he can’t breathe when he thinks about everyone they’ve lost and all the crap theyve been through. He’s disaplaying his emotions more now because he can’t hold them back for the sake of faith anymore. When Sam has no rfight left, neither will Dean, thus bringing us to The End.

Now, I think it sucks when people shit talk the writers when Sam and Dean dont act the way they want them to. Sorry snowflake, its not your story. It may be you don’t actually like the character as much as you think you do, or prefer the fan fiction versions. I know at least some of y’all spend too muich in fan fiction and have forgotten what the real characters are like, like the ones I saw recently claiming “Sam is always so sumbissive” and I had to ask what show theyre watching, because Sam may not be dominatiing, but hes anything BUT submissive, to anyone. Dean and Lucifer included.

With Dean, Sam has always chosen whether or not what theyre arguing or fighting about is worth fighting about, and often times he just drops it. With Lucifer, he wont ever stop fighting him as long as theyre both alive.

So, in conclusion, if you think Sam’s character has been left by the wayside or that he is “just a shell of what he used to be” put down the fan fic and watch the show again, because you’ve missed out on a wonderfully developed and perfectly executed character, and that’s just a crying shame.

#sam winchester #my favorite character ever #Dean is awsome too #he's no chopped liver #fandom critical #rant

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moontheoretist · 4 years

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"Sometimes my teammates don't tell me things. I was kind of hoping Thor would be the exception." "Yeah, give him time. We don't know what the Maximoff kid showed him." ―Steve Rogers and Tony Stark

I really don’t want to demonize Wanda more than she already is, but when MCU tells us that Wanda is “just a kid” it is wrong statement. This is the exact moment when we get told something by the movie, while what we are shown (or aren’t shown) by it is the exact opposite of the relayed information (and I really don’t want to say it, but Tony is nearly twice as old as Steve, so for him everybody who is past 20 can be “a kid”, especially if they look young). Wanda Maximoff is not a kid, not in Age of Ultron and not when she volunteered for Hydra experiments. Comics which covers the experiments gives us the rough timeline for when it happens. Twins volunteer for the experiments probably after 2012, around the fall of SHIELD, because Baron von Strucker mentions Project Insight in a way which sounds as if it was close to realization. And it is close to realization in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, which according to timeline (no matter how weird, convoluted and full of errors that timeline is*) happens in 2014, while Age of Ultron happens in 2015. Wanda and Pietro say that they lost their parents when they were just 10yo, and considering that their “official”* date of birth is 1988, we can say that Sokovia was an active warzone at least since 1998 or earlier (which fits the timeline of Kosovo War), as it was when Maximoff twins lost their parents. And now using a little math, we can say that when they volunteered for the experiments they were past 20yo, if they volunteered around 2012 they were 24yo, if around 2014 they were 26yo (they could be younger if their age of birth is different, but still around 20yo). And as much as I personally still feel as a dumb kid (I am 26 now), by law and morals I would be judged as an adult, no matter how I personally felt, so yeah. Wanda was an adult when she volunteered for Hydra and later when she's done all those bad things. I just wish she got her own movie in between Age of Ultron and Civil War, because her redemption is very poorly handled by the MCU and most of it supposedly happens off-screen, which doesn’t count as a proper redemption arc.

*I really don’t like relying on wiki timeline and ages of birth and MCU idea of a timeline at all, because they told us in Infinity War that Maria was expecting Tony in 1970, and it would mean that he lost his parents when he was 21, and Iron Man 1 clearly states the opposite, when it says that Stane took SI over for a while when they died, implying that Tony was either too young or not emotionally ready to take it over yet, and took it over when he was 21 instead. So going with 1970 as Tony’s date of birth erases the fact that Stane was in charge of the company. For me personally Tony being born in 1972 makes much more sense just as much as Rhodey being born in 1969 instead of 1968 as MCU says. So anyway, I have no idea from where wiki takes the idea when Wanda was born. Maybe they go with the actress age, but Holywood is actually very well known for casting adult actors as teenagers, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that actually happened, if the movie actually tried to sell to us the idea that Maximoffs are teenagers. It really doesn’t, the only people who sell this idea are Tony, Clint and Steve. Two first are really, really old, they are basically dads, they have zero ability to see age, and Steve is 20+ who slept over 70 years, he sees anybody as kids, including himself to some extent, so... we cannot rely on anything what they say. It is called an unreliable narrator. Character may always state one thing which turns out to be untrue, so Clint mentioning high school in CW is NOT correct information, it is just his assessment (and in the context this comment was not supposed to be taken at face value anyway, I never take it as such).

Edit: On quora there was one very interesting comment which claims that you can use word “kid” in regard to someone in early 20s, and that Captain America often calls himself a “kid from Brooklyn” when he is clearly 20+. And other ppl point out what I already did, that for the older Avengers who are 40+ Wanda is a kid in a sense, she is twice as young as they are, but she is still an adult anyway. (I still cannot from this one person who tried to sell the idea that fashion sense of a character determines their age, because this is so untrue - when we talk about what movie shows or not we talk about full scenes and settings not the clothes, because clothes are just one factor, and they aren’t enough to establish the feel, that’s why we are shown that Peter Parker is a teen by showing him into HS, which we do not see with Maximoffs because their whole story revolves around protesting the injustice in their country after the years of war tearing it apart and taking revenge on the man who supposedly killed their parents (he didn’t), but I cannot stress how much it would help if there was a flashback scene with 10yo Maximoffs seeing their parents die and date being slapped somewhere on it).

Conclusion: Wanda’s age is relative depending on what you want to see, but I personally will always go with her being at least 20yo, because I know people in real life who are older than they actually look and who act younger than they are, who are seen as kids or minors by mistake even though they are in their twenties or late twenties. So for me it makes sense that Wanda could be seen as a kid by older Avengers, but not actually BE a kid in the legal sense.

#wanda maximoff #it's hard to make a character redeem themselves if they do not #get much screentime and quotes to say in movies which aren't actually about them #mcu critical #wanda maximoff critical

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snowdice · 4 years

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Sometimes Labels Shift Timeline

I realized... I don’t actually have a timeline for the Sometimes Labels Shift series on here (which I post wildly out of order). I do sort most of them in the sub-series on AO3, but I should probably put them here too. I’ll also put some comments on them for some more context. (I am not doing the mini series because that’s a lot and I’m lazy right now. Feel free to ask me about them individually though and I might add them later.

Under the cut so I can edit as I inevitably add more.

Sometimes Labels Fail- about mid-October of Virgil’s Sophomore (2nd for the non US folks) Year of High School

Coffee and Cinnamon Rolls- during Sometimes Labels Fail between Chapter 5 and 6

First Week Fics- the first week Virgil is with Logan and Patton (obviously).

Back to School- a little less than two weeks after Labels Fail.

Logan establishes himself as someone willing to help Virgil when needed in particular with school work which is a touchy subject for him.

Logan offers to be in his corner while dealing with other adults for the first time.

The Things We Haven’t Talked About- mid-November of Virgil’s Sophomore Year

We get Virgil mental health care and address his trauma from the school shooting he was involved in.

Useful in establishing both Patton and Logan as people who care about his mental well-being.

Family Game Night/Family Science Night- a couple days after the new year

Mostly just a fun romp, but does establish that Virgil’s noticed he doesn’t get punished for small things such as forgetting to put things away correctly.

Wind Symphony- about a week before Virgil’s spring semester of his sophomore year begins

Established Logan and Patton’s support of Virgil’s interests.

Virgil still fully expects physical punishments at this point

We Need to Put a Bell on Virgil- the weekend before Virgil goes back for the spring semester of his sophomore year

An example of Virgil’s tendency to horde things in case the adults in his life turn on him

He still expects them to turn on him at any moment

Despite his caution with Patton and Logan, he is starting to unconsciously associate them with safety which is why it was so easy for him to fall asleep surrounded by the blankets that kind of smelled like them.

Relax or Else

Lessons From a Book- early spring semester

Virgil is just beginning to get into material in training that he doesn’t already know.

It is the beginning of the end of him believing he’ll be physically harmed by Logan or Patton (though the fear doesn’t completely go away immediately.)

The Importance of Practice- mid spring semester

He has been training with Logan for a couple of months and he’s hitting a road block

Starting to not fear physical punishments as much or at least not for small things

Logan and Patton are working to compliment him more to increase his self-confidence. He feels comfortable enough with them to protest a little when they do

Two Dinner Plates- mid spring semester

Virgil likely doesn’t fear physical punishments as much at this point

Does some work on alleviating Virgil’s fear of being punished suddenly and without cause.

Logan clearly says that he will not punish Virgil by restricting his access to food which is probably the type of punishment that Virgil most dreads.

Logan shares he knew about Virgil’s food stash and doesn’t punish him for it reinforcing that he’s not going to hurt him like that.

Reinforces the trust Virgil built up with Logan even before he started living with them.

This is an important one as its one of the first times it even somewhat got through to Virgil that he might have some level of autonomy in his situation.

Punishments- near the end of the spring semester

Shows Patton and Logan will put forth an effort to discipline him without letting anger cloud their judgement

Establishes clearly that Patton and Logan’s priorities are Virgil’s physical and mental needs and they will care for those things before any punishment is even mentioned.

Confirms that the plan they’d communicated to Virgil about how he would be punished if he misbehaved would be upheld and he would not get cruel surprises.

Establishes the fact that Virgil has the right to communicate with Logan and Patton about things without fear of more punishment and his point of view will be taken into account.

Reestablishes Patton and Logan as people willing to stand up to other adults for him.

Arguments and Other ‘A’ Words- right at the begin of summer break between Virgil’s sophomore and junior year of high school

Directly a result from Punishments. Virgil trusts them enough to push boundaries a bit and assert his opinions. He does not know how to do this in a healthy way however as it’s the first time anything other than silence was allowed from an authority figure. Which leads to a fight.

Reinforces that Virgil won’t get punished harshly for expressing negative emotions.

Logan communicates to Virgil that he can be unhappy with him and still wish to have a relationship with him. Basically love is not conditional and even when Virgil’s throwing fits, it isn’t going away.

Communicates that Virgil’s place with them is permanent even though he still has doubts going forward.

Party Conversations- A couple of days after Arguments and Other ‘A’ Words. It’s the party they were discussing.

Barbeque Stressing- A couple of weeks into June

He meets Roman and Remus for the first time and bonds with Roman.

He’s comfortable enough with Logan and Patton that he wants to seek them out when stressed at the party, but not comfortable enough in their relationship that he doesn’t want to push the issue and insist he stays with them.

The adoption idea is still relatively new and part of him is worried that if he is ‘bad’ or inconveniences them too much that it’ll go away which is why he forces himself to attend the party.

Nachos Are Not a Valid Foundation for Future Planning- Halfway through July

Virgil is processing exactly what being adopted by Logan and Patton would mean for his future.

He is still very worried about messing up or not being enough and them not wanting him anymore.

Virgil’s Birthday- August a couple of weeks before Virgil’s junior (3rd) year of high school begins

Convinces Virgil that they really do want to keep him

Communicates to Virgil that, more than just wanting Virgil to be safe, they also want to make him happy which is actually a pretty big deal to him. It establishes that their desire to adopt him is not out of just pity but genuine affection

Finding Emo- The last week of summer vacation for Virgil

Roman and Virgil meet again and start to really bond. They make plans for later with each other.

Divestment of Childhood- Early October of Virgil’s junior year

The adoption is about to go through

Virgil feels a inadequate and like he doesn’t deserve this

At the same time he’s afraid they’ll change their minds last minute

He’s overwhelmed and runs away, but also subconsciously wants them to chase him and tell him he’s wrong

Pumpkins, Corn, and Caffeine- Late October of Virgil’s junior year

The adoption is getting close to going through and Virgil is tentatively confident it’s going to happen

He’s been thinking of calling them dad and he half does it here

Also Logan and Patton care enough about him to care what would happen if they both died

A Bag of Chips

Dye Job

Virgil’s Culinary Abilities

Not Today

Vengeance is Soft- August of Virgil’s senior year

He will call them dad and he will use this as a manipulation tactic

Cuddles are now weaponized

He has just turned 17 and has become peak little shit

Can and does drive

Distractions

Obligatory Beach Episode

#not writing #labeled universe #sometimes labels shift #blog organization

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tuiyla · 4 years

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A Definitive History of Bubbline

With “Obsidian” coming out in two days, it really is time for a definitive history of Marceline and Bubblegum’s relationship. And by that I mean the tumultuous road that led us to “Obsidian” from a production and fandom point of view. For a list of Bubbline episodes, check out my Bubbline Guide (and part two) - which I need to update, I know I know. For this post, I wanted to highlight how far this pairing has come and what Bubbline means to queer representation in children’s cartoons.

This is less of an analysis and more of an overview with links to more information on specific incidents to keep it (relatively) brief. I say it’s a definitive history but it isn’t an exhaustive one, so do check out the links included to learn more about how we got here. I realize not everyone cares about these kinds of things but I think it’s important to know how hard Adventure Time’s creators had to fight. Bubbline is a pioneer ship in many ways but it doesn’t always get the recognition it deserves.

Initial Concepts

As is the case with much of Adventure Time, the initial concept of who the characters of Bonnibel and Marceline were going to be is very different than what we ended up getting. @gunterfan1992 explores this and other production tidbits in depth in his book so I do recommend checking that out. The short version is that these two were created to be opposites and with a Betty and Veronica type dynamic in mind where they would both be love interest to the protagonist, Finn.

This didn’t quite end up being the case but remnants of this concept are seen in “Go With Me” (March, 2011), the episode with the first on-screen Bubbline interaction. As Marcy helps - and sabotages - Finn in asking Bonnie out, she also becomes a potential love interest for him but she shuts him down immediately. So while Finn’s crush on PB continues, the notion that Marceline would be part of a love triangle is dismissed. Instead, this first Bonnie and Marcy interaction established that the two already know each other and there’s some bitterness in that past.

“What Was Missing” and the Mathematical Controversy

A potential preexisting relationship between the two was further explored in “What Was Missing” (September 2011) just a season later. The episode was written and storyboarded by Rebecca Sugar and eventual showrunner Adam Muto. Sugar was responsible for much of the character depth added to Marceline and later even played, quite aptly, her mother in the Stakes miniseries. It was Sugar who wrote the now beyond iconic “I’m Just Your Problem” based on personal experiences and suggested that Marcy and Bonnie be queer characters with a complicated romantic past.

“What Was Missing” was hugely important in how it hinted at a complex relationship through character interactions, Marceline’s song, and the last scene twist with PB’s shirt. The AT crew were supportive of the idea and sneaked in plenty of queer subtext, but this is where I have to point out that 2011 was a very different time and it’s thanks, in part, to Bubbline that things have changed. Autostraddle’s article from back when covers what is now known as the Mathematical controversy. Audiences picked up on the subtext and Cartoon Network was not having it. The popularity of the ship soared but the execs were not taking to queer implications kindly.

Great Bubbline Drought

So, the ship has sailed but controversy looms over it. “What Was Missing” s subtle by today’s standards but it was enough to keep Marceline and Bubblegum apart for two years on-screen. Each character went through wonderful development in the meantime, as did the show itself, but there’s a certain sense of bitterness to what came to be known as the Great Bubbline Drought. CN got so afraid of the potential backlash that they waited two years to have a new episode featuring the pair, “Sky Witch” (July 2013), by which point Sugar had left AT to work on her own show, Steven Universe. I’m happy that Sugar got to create her own show and push for even more queer representation, but it’s also sad that she never got to write more for the ship she pioneered.

“Sky Witch” still happened, though, and featured even more subtext, from PB’s side this time around. The shirt returned and there was hope as Marcy and Bonnie were seen hanging out together more often (”Red Starved” and “Princess Day”). Another controversy threatened to emerge in August 2014 when Olivia Olson, Marceline’s voice actress said that creator Pendleton Ward had confirmed a pre-show Bubbline romance. It was a messy ordeal with deleted tweets and questions about whether the two could get together again in the series. Fortunately, though, things changed in the three years between 2011 to 2014 and another Bubbline drought didn’t follow.

The Season That Changed Everything

It took another two years after “Sky Witch” but the ball was finally, inevitably, relentlessly rolling. “Varmints” premiered in November 2015 and three episodes later, the Stakes miniseries kicked off. What season 7 meant wasn’t just breadcrumbs and (not so) subtle songs anymore: suddenly, there were too many Bubbline moments to count. “Varmints” served as a follow-up to “What Was Missing” and a final reconciliation, and though Stakes was primarily about Marcy, it also developed her relationship with Bonnie. Afterwards, it became clear that Bubbline was heading somewhere.

It’s worth noting that the cultural context also changed between when “Sky Witch” and “Varmints” aired. In December 2014, The Legend of Korra ended with Korra and Asami beginning their romantic relationship, and Rebecca Sugar was making Steven Universe more and more explicitly queer by the day. Adventure Time started the ball rolling but now it wasn’t alone as a popular Western cable cartoon with queer characters. However, Bubbline was still very much subtext at this point, just with significantly more hope of becoming more.

Late Series Entanglement

But at what point does subtext become plain text? Bubbline fans sure did have fun with that question between Stakes and the finale. Bonnie and Marcy became near inseparable, with most of their major appearances involving one another from this point on. These included the meet the adoptive dad date “Broke His Crown” (March 2016), the Elements miniseries (April 2017) and the nigh on obnoxiously on the nose “Marcy & Hunson” (December 2017). In fact, all but two of Marceline’s major appearances from season 7 on included Bonnie - the exceptions being “Everything Stays” as part of Stakes, and “Ketchup”, which really wasn’t any less gay.

Bubbline moments really did become too many to count, with the vast majority of them having romantic implications. And with queer representation becoming more and more prominent in Western animation, canon Bubbline romance seemed like a question of when rather than if. I’d like to point out here how this was often frustrating, though. After the very rocky start, this relationship was thriving and was really basically confirmed, but that last little push to make it undeniably a part of queer history was still needed.

“Come on!” - The End and Beyond

The almost three years that passed between Stakes and “Come Along With Me” (September 2018) were much more tolerable than the Drought; after all, there was plenty of Bubbline content in the later seasons. The big question as the finale came was whether Adventure Time would fizzle out on its early pioneer of a wlw ship or follow through, once and for all. Almost four years after LoK ended and just before season 1 of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power dropped, Marcy and Bonnie had an emotional moment, kissed on screen, and ended the series together.

The intricacies of why a kiss was needed as a signifier of romance is a discussion for another day. But wouldn’t it have been strange after almost a decade of build-up for them not to seal the deal with a kiss? And to think it almost didn’t happen, as by that point it was so obvious they were together. Again, I direct your attention towards Paul Thomas’s book, he explains how it was storyboard artist Hanna K. Nyström’s call to add this final detail. Because, come on! Sometimes, you need to be as clear as possible, and that’s the case with queer representation in animation.

Since the finale, the comics have been continuing the Bubbline train - which are not technically canon but one can have fun regardless. In any case, the existence of Marcy and Bonnie’s relationship, of their queer identities, is not something that can reasonably be denied. It was a long road, and, make no mistake, an arduous one, but this is the story of a win. A win for storytelling and a win for wlw relationships.

We’ll Build Our Own Forever

So, there you have it, a Bubbline timeline of sorts. In March of 2011 we had the first on-screen interaction and now, in November of 2020, we’re getting a 45-minute-long special with the two of them as the central characters. They’re canonically in love, with King Princess covers of Bubbline songs and more. I tried to contain myself, for once, and not write too much. I think it’s important that people have a general idea of just how monumental all of this is and how, even just 9 years ago, “Obsidian” would have been totally inconceivable.

Some of this might have come as a surprise to you. It’s certainly not been easy to get to where we are now with Bubbline and it’s yet to be seen how open “Obsidian” will be about the relationship. I’ve been talking about Bubbline for years and attempted to chronicle their relationship many times so I’m happy I’ve finally done it from this perspective as well.

Adventure Time: Distant Lands “Obsidian” is streaming on Nov 19 on HBO Max. If you can, stream it so we can show that there’s popular demand for stories like that of an angry vampire and a despotic piece of gum.

#Adventure Time #bubbline #obsidian #marceline abadeer #adventure time distant lands #at #pb #my thoughts #definitive history of bubbline #there you have it folks #princess bubblegum

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purplesurveys · 3 years

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1124

survey by nadine07

Three Names You Are Called:

1. Robyn, by virtually everybody.

2. Byn, by close family members.

3. For some reason I have some friends who call me Bynbyn? even though I never established it as a nickname?? but they use it as an affectionate nickname so ultimately I don’t mind it. It just takes me aback sometimes, lmao.

Three Colors You Are Wearing At the Moment:

1. Red

2. White

3. Pink. Or light purple, depending on how you see it.

The Last Three People To Call You:

1. My mom, though I missed the call because I was at work earlier.

2. I just saw that Ysa, my director, also tried to call me. This story is so fucking stupid...I physically went to the office last Wednesday to pack some groceries, and all day long I had been leaving the door slightly ajar every time I had to go out because I haven’t had my biometrics enrolled yet and I don’t hold the keys to the office (and I was the only one who requested to go there for that day).

Of course, knowing my luck, the door slipped while I was out (I had to very briefly hand a package to a courier), locking me out of the goddamn office with all my shit inside. Even worse, I had a meeting going on with a client – I had speaking parts assigned to me, and I got locked out like 30 seconds before my part would start. I’m guessing Ysa called me during the time I disappeared but I obviously couldn’t have answered the phone. It was infuriating, especially since my manager had to cover for my slides which she didn’t practice for.

I’ll no longer get into how I managed to get back inside since it’s another embarrassing and complicated story altogether, but suffice it to say I was really upset about the whole thing and I still feel uneasy imagining how that meeting could’ve gone down with my disappearance.

3. A courier. They usually call when they’re already arrived where you are, so that they know where exactly to meet up with you.

Three Days You Look Forward To Each Year:

1. My birthday, because it’s kinda cool turning into a different age.

2. Whenever Wrestlemania is scheduled, which is usually late March or early April.

3. ...I don’t have any either favorite days/dates.

Three Jobs You've Had:

1. PR associate.

2. That’s my first job. I’ve had two internships before that, and they were both at PR agencies.

3. -

Three Bands/Singers You Love:

1. Paramore

2. Beyoncé

3. The Japanese House

Three People You've Talked To Today:

1. It’s exactly 7 AM. I could’ve talked to my parents when they headed downstairs earlier but I pretended I was still asleep on the couch so that they couldn’t, hahaha. They’ve since gone out to jog. I don’t think I’ve said a word at all yet this morning, actually.

2. -

3. -

Three Things You Could Grab From Where You're Sitting:

1. My phone.

2. The other end of this table.

3. My vape pen.

The Last Three Things You've Had to Drink:

1. I most recently had a glass of water after I finished my bag of salted egg chips.

2. I finished off the last of my coffee.

3. I also drank soju last night as an impromptu thing because I saw that I still had a peach-flavored one (my favorite) in the fridge.

Three People You Can Always Count On:

1. Angela.

2. Andi.

3. I’m also gonna name Pia even though we aren’t the closest. Girl has been crazy supportive over the last few months.

Three Places You Want to Go:

1. That I haven’t been to yet? Seoul in South Korea.

2. Thailand.

3. Morocco.

The Last Three Places You've Gone:

1. Other than places in the house – the local coffee shop inside my village.

2. The office.

3. The Starbucks beside the office. I had arrived a bit early so I had some time to walk over there and order something.

The Last Three Non-Relatives You've Hung Out With:

1. Angela.

2. Hans.

3. We were 8 in the group the last time we went out lol. But aside from the above, Pia (a different one) was the one who made the most effort to talk to me as well.

Three People To Be Stranded On A Desert Island With:

1. Angela.

2. Kate.

3. Not sure. Maybe Al for some comic relief while we try to survive there?

Three Smells You Love:

1. Cookies being baked.

2. A hotel room.

3. Seafood.

Three People You Look Up To:

1. Angela’s mom.

2. Andi.

3. My manager, Bea. Well she just got promoted, so I guess I’ll call her my director now, hahaha.

Three Places You've Lived:

1. The duplex where I mostly grew up, just a village away from my current one. I got to experience living in either house, as well.

2. Tondo, Manila. With my dad’s family.

3. Sampaloc, Manila. My parents briefly had an apartment and I was there for like a few months as a newborn.

Three Good Teachers You've Had:

1. My music teacher for the entirety of high school.

2. My professor in international relations.

3. My professor in my social history and history of Filipino women electives.

Three Things You're Good At:

1. I gotta say I’m great at parking, hahaha. Backward parking, parallel parking, you name it.

2. Going through my to-do list and finishing off every task by the end of the day.

3. Reflexes, or reacting/responding immediately, especially in games.

The Last Three People You've Kissed:

1. Gabie.

2. -

3. -

The Last Three People You've Dated:

1. Gabie.

2. -

3. -

Three People With Whom You've Shared a Secret:

1. Andi.

2. JM.

3. Jo was the first person I informed about my breakup, and I didn’t even reveal it publicly until like three months after. I didn’t expect to confide in her especially since we aren’t the closest, but I think I was just desperate to tell someone then to finally acknowledge reality.

Three Irresponsible Things You've Done:

1. Vape.

2. Road rage.

3. Leave my laptop in a classroom as I left to go to another class, in another building.

Three Movies You Love:

1. Two for the Road.

2. Revolutionary Road.

3. Room.

The Last Three People You've Gone to the Movies With:

1. Angela.

2. Leigh.

3. Gabie.

The Last Three People You've Ridden in a Car With:

1. Laurice.

2. Kuya Toby.

3. Lui.

Three Facts About Your #1:

1. Can I name my best friends instead? Angela is in her final year of college taking up architecture.

2. She has two shih tzus, Hailey and Kennedy.

3. Her mom is a pediatrician and has her own clinic in their home.

Three Places You've Gone With Your #2:

1. I haven’t been too adventurous with Andi...most recently we’ve gone to a Korean barbecue joint for a one-on-one catch up date.

2. TK.

3. Rita’s house.

Three Things You've Done With Your #3:

1. Kate works for the government.

2. Last time I talked to her, she’s still set on retake a law school exam after not getting admitted to her campus of choice last year.

3. She had a bad habit of dating orgmates.

Three Things You Have in Common With Your #4:

1. Laurice is great at debate.

2. She lives in the south, so I don’t get to see her a lot.

3. She has a cute habit of calling many of our friends by their respective honorifics, even though they’re the same age or even when she’s literally older than some of them.

Three Things That Annoy You:

1. Making the effort to go to a store and seeing they’re closed for the day, even though they didn’t indicate it in their social media accounts.

2. Offices of government agencies and their ever-grumpy staff.

3. Filipinos’ tendency to turn 3 lanes into 6 during a traffic jam.

Three Things That Attract You To The Opposite Sex:

1. Asexual. Pass.

2. -

3. -

Three Material Items You'd Save If You're House Was On Fire:

1. My laptop, since all my work files and a whole ton of memories are in here.

2. My phone, so I can update family and friends.

3. My glasses. Realistically, I wouldn’t care about any of these and would jump up to grab my dogs instead.

Three Careers You've Considered:

1. Journalist.

2. Lawyer.

3. Historian.

Three Things You Wish You Knew About Your Future:

1. Whether marriage or kids will be part of mine.

2. When I’m dying, and what from.

3. Where I’ll end up living, and what kind of housing.

The Last Three Songs You Listened To:

1. Wait On - Hayley Williams

2. Good Grief - Hayley Williams

3. Over Those Hills - Hayley Williams. Stream Flowers for Vases, friends.

Three Things You Consider Lucky:

1. I don’t believe in lucky charms.

2. -

3. -

Three T.V. Show Characters You Wish Were Real:

1. Mr. Peanutbutter from BoJack Horseman.

2. Chandler Bing from Friends.

3. Glenn Rhee from The Walking Dead.

Three Issues You Have Strong Opinions On:

1. Racial equality.

2. Gender equality.

3. Abortion rights.

Three Things You Wish You Could Change About Yourself:

1. That I wasn’t so clumsy at work.

2. That I wasn’t too selfless all the time to just about anyone.

3. That I had a better hold of my finances and keep spending just because I’m still within budget, heheh.

Three People From Your Past You Wish You Could Spend a Day With:

1. My grandpa, who passed away before I could properly grow up and shoot the shit with him over some beer.

2. Nacho.

3. Sofie, so we can properly catch up, just the two of us.

Three Famous People You'd Like to Meet:

1. Beyoncé.

2. Hayley Williams.

3. Leni Robredo.

Three Things You Are Wearing:

1. A t-shirt.

2. A pair of shorts.

3. Underwear.

The Last Three Places You Went That Were More Than 2 Hours Away:

1. Tagaytay.

2. My dad’s family’s home in Laguna.

3. Those are the only places we’ve been to where we had to travel for a while.

The Last Three Reasons You Went to the Hospital:

1. Blood and urine test for my ~mystery illness~ last year.

2. I had to be confined for a couple of days because of low platelet count.

3. ...I was born. I haven’t made many trips to the hospital.

Three Things You Are Addicted To:

1. I’ve never felt comfortable using the term addicted because it’s an actual condition...but if you mean to ask for what I’m hooked to at the moment, I’d go with coffee.

2. And salted egg chips. I literally bought five bags of chips yesterday and I’m already finished with my third.

3. Anything Korean, tbh. Korean food, shows, music, etc...the Korean Wave is very strong over here and I’ve finally been reeled all the way in.

Three Favorite Colors:

1. Baby pink or pastel pink.

2. Mustard yellow.

3. Maroon.

Three Things You Will Do Now That This Is Over:

1. Find another one to take for later.

2. Finish my breakfast, and maybe heat up some leftover pasta because I’m still hungry.

3. Maybe get my embroidering template so I can make some progress today.

#survey #surveys

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aspiestvmusings · 4 years

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ZEP SPOILER PREDICTION?

POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD, SO BEWARE...

BASED ON EPISODE 1x01 - 1x10 + MY PREDICTIONS FOR 1x11 - 1x12

LONG & RANTY POST. NOT SO “POSITIVE” THOUGHTS, SO BEWARE:

So... I’ve had this “feeling” since the Pilot & I kinda got confirmation for my theory in this weeks episode. And if I combine it with the s1 finale (1x12) episode summary, then it could fit, because “Zoey tries to stop something bad from happening” according to the description.

Everyone thinks that that’s related to her dad, but... ever since that spoiler came out, I’ve suspected it’s related to someone & something else (even though it is pretty certain her dad will be gone at the end of ep 1x11 or early 1x12). I think that’s a reference to something Simon related instead.

Zoey’s first “real” interaction with Simon was in the Pilot episode, when she heard him sing “Mad World”. In the latest episode, 1x10 he sang the same song again. And I am predicting that the song MIGHT even be heard the third time during the season...in the finale. (or maybe she’ll just come to realize why she heard him sing that again.. in 1x10)

We’ve seen how Simon has been unable to deal with his grief, to move on, to let go. We’ve seen how it has destroyed him, his relationships... everything. And if we listen to the lyrics (original song by “Tears for Fears”, the extra sad newer version by Gary Jules), and think of Simon’s behaviour (he really is the great pretender”!...as demonstated well in many little scenes in 1x02 & 1x03...for example), I think it’s possible he’s gonna try to go down the same path his dad did. And that’s the “bad thing” Zoey is trying to stop in the s1 finale.

On this note: I can’t believe that Zoey still hasn’t figured out why Simon was put in her path..at this time. She’s not just supposed to help him, he’s supposed to help her. She’s supposed to learn from him and not make the same mistakes (since she’s not figured that out yet, she’s going down the same path as he is). Simon has been avoiding his grief, and it has made him a mess. He’s not talked with anyone about it..really, he’s not talked about it with his loved ones, and it lead to destroying himself, and his relationships.

And guess what Zoey has been doing...ever since we met her? She’s avoiding dealing with “her daddy issues”, and it has made her a mess, and ruined many of her relationships (best friends, relatives...). Until she realizes that she’s not supposed to make the same mistakes, and she’s supposed to learn from him, it’s not good. She’s ignored or forgotten (by the next day) all good advice from her friends and family...on this.. and she can’t take it all on her own..she needs to share the grief with people who care about her... to be able to deal...with it all...

Yet...

*************************************************

This weeks episode (1x10) did what I expected, and I know that the show is trying to claim everything Zoey is doing is affected by her grief...and that’s why she’s a mess, and that’s why... all... but I still can’t believe that (even if it’s the “anger” phase of her grief) she still hasn’t figured out that the lyrics of the songs that people sing tell her how she must help them. And she still, to this day, has not helped Simon with his grief. And according to the rules Mo wrote down...that’s “no good” - she must help the person singing...with the “problem” they have. She might’ve not wanted the power & it might not be fair to have to help people...especially at a time when she’s losing her dad... but they established that she must... in order to make all good.

She can “hear” (thanks to her power) how Simon feels, and yet she hasn’t actively helped him with his grief. And I know the writers are trying to say that it’s because of her own grief (and going through the stages herself), but it has just surprised me how she focuses all her energy on pursuing the engaged (until recently) man...romantically... (obsessively, so), instead of helping him (and instead of focusing on the #1 man in her life..her dad... and I still can’t believe she’s avoided that til now... cause she’s wasted so much precious time... til the very last minute... and she now has so little time left with him...cause she’s been focusing all her energy on trying to repeat her past relationship mistakes... -- and go for the complicated, exhausting for everyone... option,-- ). She’s spent so much energy on obsessing over the engaged (til 4 days ago) man, while claiming she has no time for any romance... (her words & actions don’t match!).

Her heart song to him in 1x08 also said “didn’t I see you crying?”, so she is (deep down) aware that that’s the emotional state she was him in, and yet they have not had a real, proper, discussion on how to deal with the grief! And hearing him sing the same song again in 1x10 should’ve told her that the man is still “stuck”...still... and that means she didn’t really help him...yet. Which means she must try to help him...again...til it works. (and in helping him she’ll help herself... and learn from his mistakes..and not repeat them..)

Also looking forward to the day when Zoey realizes that the thing that bothers her about Simon is what bothers Max about her: She doesn’t like that Max is pursuing her & yet she is pursuing Simon the same way....at a time when she claims she needs to focus on her dad. She doesn’t like that Simon has no clarity (doesn’t return her feelings... doesn’t want to start anything), but she doesn’t understand that she’s doing the same thing herself...to Max - she has no clarity herself. And if she’s allowed to not like how Simon doesn’t give her an answer & be upset that he doesn’t like her back...then it should be OK for Max to not like how she doesn’t give him/her BFF an answer & be upset that she doesn’t seem to like him back.

The moment when she realizes tha parallels..is what I'm looking forward to. For her (and some of the viewers) to realize how the things that bother her about Max’s behaviour are parallel how she herself has behaved. (fans claim “Max is pushing Zoey to love him back & going after her...strong”, but what has she done all season? “Zoey has been pushing Simon to love her back & going after him...strong”) The two storylines are exactly the same. And that’s done on purpose on the show.

She claims she has no time to focus on romance, cause she’s so caught up with her dad & grief, so it’s not the right time to pursue romance, yet she spends much of her screentime actively wishing for & pursuing a romace with Simon. She has the time to go to dinner with him (at a time when I expected her to practically move in with her parents...for the last few weeks), yet she doesn’t take time to actually get her BFF a “congrats on the promotion” gift...when in contrast she gets the “just-broke-up-his-engagement” man a housewarming gift... (she had 4 days to buy that pen/mouse... but she didn’t, but she got the plant for the same night. Same with telling Mo how she’s upset about the Simon news...while not even a mention of Max’s news - move to 6th floor. It’s like they really never were friends...cause she voices no concerns about losing a good programmer & friend...only “worrying” about her office crush...). #WhyAreTheyWritingHerLikeThat #SheCanGoThroghTheAngerPhaseWithoutBeingExtraRude

To me..that shows just how much she really “cares”. And she might be grieving & a mess..but right now...she does not “deserve” Max...as her BFF (even though she needs her BFF...at this time) Until she’s done processing her grief & done some therapy, and focused on herself... she should do as she says, and focus on her dad, her family, herself. Make her words match her actions. (and yes, this latest ep provided that “turn” ..for her...and all the characters... as the sun will shine again...after the storm... but not before another “storm cloud” passes)

Or...in other news: I LOVED!!! how everyone told their truths to Zoey in this episode. She might be grieving & going through the stages of grief (but so are a lot of people around her....and they don’t create conflicts over this), but that doesn’t make it OK how she sometimes behaves. (Just like Simon grieving does not excuse any of his behaviour...where he was emotionally cheating on his fiancee, and kissing other women while still enaged... etc) So... the scenes where everyone told her the harsh truth...were some of my faves in this episode: Mo, her mom, (even Joan...through looks), Simon, and especially Max!) IMO she really needed to hear all of it! (and more)

And this makes me sad that I am saying this, but... I wish Max/Zoey wasn’t the endgame...after all this. But it’s a fact that they are. But Max is a much better person than I am. And unlike me (I see the world in black & white only...and while I know it’s very human & all.. I am not a fan of “messy human feelings” - it’s all just too irrational for my taste), he sees all the colours. And mostly...he loves her..unconditionally, so he’ll “forgive her”. But for me her indecisivness, “1 step forward, 2 steps back” w. Simon (”we’re done, this is over, no more” claims... which she takes back/forgets the very next moment/episode... because... -- she won’t be doing this no more.. but then she finds out his engagement ended...so she’s back obsessing over pursuing him...even though she just made a promise to herself to not do just that --) behaviour, and all that.. cannot be “excused” or “explained” with grief. It hasn’t worked...on screen...for me. But it has allowed some TOP acting from Jane, and Skylar, and John, and Alex...and everyone else. This cast just keeps being amazing!

But no matter how much I’ll “fangirl” over the S1 finale M/Z moments and possible future M/Z endgame... for me it’s not the payoff... anymore (due to how S1 was written) ..it’s gonna be the unfortunate end result. Some people love TV drama, I just aren’t a fan of such messy drama... I’m simply too rational to get irrational behaviour (what writers & people call “very human” & “this is what grief & hurt does to a person”). I get the intent & get the reasons behind it, but it’s too irrational for me to like it. (cheating is cheating, you can’t take back what you’ve said/done...especially if you make the same mistake again...) #hurtpeoplehurtpeople

I’ve expressed some of these every thoughts in my previous tags and online comments... and now I just have confirmation from the ep that they did really take the exact route I did not ever want the show to take (once is a mistake, twice/three times is a pattern...). But nonetheless... M&Z is endgame. So...my only hope & wish is that there will be a S2, so we would see REALLY work on earning back her BFF (Max’s) trust and friendship. She has to work for it IMO. And she must be compleely honest with him...as she promised...and this now includes telling himall about her grief, “the triangle”, her moments with the engaged/just broken up man... That is the one thing that is a must.

(And no, Max isn’t that much hurt because she didn’t ask him to stay or petty cause she doesn’t return the feelings, he’s upset cause no-one even came to say “good luck”, and his best friend didn’t even bother to get him the “good luck gift” - to him it’s like confirmation that they don’t care or appreciate him as a co-worker. It’s like his peer reviews... He’s said why he’s upset. And he’s not upset cause she doesn’t return his feelings, cause through her heart song he knows for a fact that she has romantic feelings for him + he noticed how she checked his body out (Mo’s makeover)...and that “she’s his”. He’s upset that even though she has feelings for him, she avoids them & him. And that she’s pursuing the engaged man, making him her second choice & no one wants to be the “other/second (wo)man””. She claims she can’t do more than friendship right now...cause of everything related to her dad & yet... she is pursuing more than friendship with the other guy... so once again she wasn’t honest with him... and that’s gotta hurt cause they’ve been BFFs forever...)

This latest episode, once again, used parallels...lots of them.

Z: “You should know...what you did yesterday was really rough.”

M: “I was just..taking care of me. It wasnt personal.”

Z: “When I told you aboout my powers, I also told you I was gonna be 100% honest with you, do you remember that? OK, so here’s the truth: I think it is personal. I think youre mad at me. Youre mad at me for not saying what you wanted to hear. And now youre trying to teach me some kind of a lesson.”

M: “Oh, is that what you’re think?”

Z: “That’s what I think. Why else would you take the 6th floor side? You’ve been there wor whoppin 2 days.”

M: “I dont know. Maybe because people actually like me on the 6th Floor. Do you know that Ava has said to me mor ein those 2 days than Joan has in the last 5 years? Oh and it’s also a huge opportunity for me and my career. have you ever thought about that?”

Z: “So you’re just gonna leave behind everybody that helped you get there? Is that the idea?”

M: “See it how you wanna see it.”

Z: “Nobody down here understands why Ava wanted you in the first place. Just FYI.” #ThisWasLowAndTotallyCruelThingsToSay

M: “Maybe it’s becase I’m a good person.”

Z: “...or a very selfish one.”

M: “YOU are calling ME selfish? Look... I have spent far too much time worrying about other peoples happiness more than my own. Especially yours. And I think that its finally time I focus on my own happiness for a change.”

Once again the use dialogue about one relationship to parallel another relationship. If we change the words a bit & apply it in reverse, we get:

M: “You should know...what you did yesterday was really rough.” [their 1x07/1x08 conforntation - her revealing she has feelings for him...but then taking back the words & running to another man... while claiming your focus has to be only on your dad]

Z: “I was just..taking care of me. It wasn’t personal.”

M: “When you told me about your powers, you also told me you were gonna be 100% honest with me do you remember that (Think back... have you really been that?)? OK, so here’s the truth: I think it is personal. I think you’re mad at Simon. You’re mad at Simon for not saying what you wanted to hear. And now youre trying to teach me/him some kind of a lesson.”

Z: “Oh, is that what you’re think?”

M: “That’s what I think. Why else would you avoid your best friend & obsess over an engaged man...while claiming you can’t deal with romance at this time when you should focus all your energy on your dad? You’ve known the new guy for a whopping 2+ months...compared to your best friend of 5 years.”

Z: “I dont know...:”

M: “So you’re just gonna leave behind everybody that helped you get here (ditch your best friend, end your traditional movie nights together, dive into yet another overly complicated-exhausting for everyone-not good relationship with an engaged & grieving man...? You’re avoiding the most important man in our life = your dad, & dealing with your grief, you’re pushing away your best friend, whose always been there for you. And you’re opening up to a stranger instead of your best friend...and saying that’s a positive behaviour. Is that the idea?”

Z: “See it how you wanna see it.”

And Max’s decision in 1x09 & 1x10 was explained by Zoey's speech in 1x09..once again the two storylines are parallels as I already mentioned after last ep:

Z: “I will never be “the other woman”. Nonetheless..I care about you. A lot. We have a chemistry & a bond that’s undeniable. And I guess I was hoping that after the kiss you’d have some clarity... about all of it. Clarity ... you still don’t have. And maybe never will. So... I have to make a change.... instead of just sitting around, and waiting...and hoping for something to happen...So..this is me...saying to you...officially... I can’t, and I won’t do this anymore.

If we change the words a bit & apply that to M/Z, we get why Max made his decision & what he’s really saying to her:

M: “I will never be “the second choice (when youre my first...but clearly I am only 2nd choice for you)”. Nonetheless..I care about you. A lot. We have a chemistry & a bond that’s undeniable. And I guess I was hoping that after the heart song you’d have some clarity... about all of it. Clarity ... you still don’t have. And maybe never will. So... I have to make a change [move to 6th floor, putting distance between us].... instead of just sitting around, and waiting...and hoping for something to happen...that might never happen. So..this is me...saying to you...officially... I can’t, and I won’t do this anymore.”

She is a complete mess & she still doesn’t realize the parallels. How what bothers her about Max’s behaviour (towards her) is exactly what bothers Max about her behaviour. If she feels she “has the right” to be upset with Simon over these things (no clarity, not telling her he likes her back), then she has to realize that her BFF also “has the right” to be upset with her...over the same things. And she keep projecting...her own fears and denial..into others. And I get what the writers wanted to say, but for me personally... it’s made me dislike the character, and the writing, and all, because I don’t really “understand” why she/writers would “excuse” it all with her grief making her “act crazy”. She keeps avoiding her best friend & her dad’s situation.

We know that it’s because with Max she’s got a lot to lose (the connection is deeper, there’s more to lose), while with Simon it feels “easy” and theres nothing to lose, cause they don’t have that deep connection. Just grief bond....which she keeps mixing with something other. And she doesn’t listen to reason from her friends: Mo, Max... and they can’t help her get through this all if she won’t let them in...

And in the next eps...when THE DAY she’s been most scared of..arrives (her dad), shes gonna need her best friend, Max. And he’ll need her, cause he was close to Mitch, too. So they’re both gonna acively grieve. But before that they needed/need to “have hard conversations” and be completely honest with each other. The 1x10 “fight” was the turning point, now they just need time to figure things out...separately (as individuals, not as a duo) and realize...things.

#ZEP #SPOILER #ZEPspoilers #ZOEY'S EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST #ZOEYS EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST #ITS NEVER A GOOD SIGN WHEN THE WRITING MAKES ME DISLIKE THE MAIN CHARACTER ON A TV SHOW #BUT THIS SHOWRUNNER HAS DONE THAT...IN JUST 10 EPISODES.

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bigskydreaming · 5 years

Text

This is a post about Boone aka Shrike.

I am making this post about Boone aka Shrike from Robin: Year One and later stories, solely so that reading this post on mobile will bring up “other posts like this” and show all the other posts I have made about Boone aka Shrike from Robin: Year One and other stories. LOL.

Because I’m back on my ‘people should make Boone aka Shrike and his archrivalry with Dick more of a thing’ bus.

Look, I will maintain until the day I die that Shrike has literally EVERYTHING needed to deliver on the same thematic elements people cite interest in JayDick and Sladin for....with the added bonus of....a Dick/Boone ship wouldn’t be incestuous or rely on a huge predatory age gap.

I mean, granted, it still won’t do anything for people who are into those ships purely BECAUSE of the incest or the huge predatory age gap, but I mean like, I work with what I can work with. Like I’m not even trying to change peoples’ minds there so much as just point out alternatives for anyone who just comes to those ships looking for the specific dynamic that personally I think is more real and evident with Dick and Boone than it ever will be with him and anyone else.

But really, the ONLY thing Boone needs to be serve the same narrative function is like...a higher profile, and more use of the character. I mean, some more infamy and slots in his win column wouldn’t hurt either, but you know. Whatever.

Anyway, point is, so Robin: Year One.

That was the story where Dick got hurt badly by Two-Face when he was still new to being Robin, and Bruce freaked out and fired him for the first time, also making the blunderhead move, in his freak out and new to being a parent thing, of saying it was Dick’s fault the judge had died, when Dick had literally just been trying to save Bruce’s life.

So Dick figures if he can’t be Robin, there’s no point to him being there, since Bruce doesn’t want or need a son (take that stories that act like Dick even at age 10 or 11 wasn’t already secretly hoping to be adopted). So Dick ran away and stayed on the streets where he took down Mr. Freeze all on his own, and in doing so drew the attention of something called The Vengeance Academy.

This was run by a guy named Shrike, who had some of his men snatch Dick off the streets after he caught their eye by taking on Mr. Freeze, and brought to the Vengeance Academy. It was a front for the League of Assassins, a place in Gotham where they trained kids as assassins and vetted their potential for being taken to the League itself for training.

Attendance was not elective, lol, it wasn’t like they asked Dick or any of these kids if they wanted to join, but most of them had nowhere else to go, so like Dick, they stayed and trained and went on missions Shrike assigned them as part of their training.

One of these other kids was named Boone, and he had something of a leadership role among the other kids, and was at times almost friendly with Dick and at other times saw him as a rival because of Dick’s own skills. And when they went out on missions, like, Dick stopped the other kids from killing some guards after they’d knocked them out, which pissed off Boone because it was Dick undermining his position as leader in the other kids’ eyes, especially when Shrike validated Dick’s decision when they returned to the Academy, by saying they should never kill people they aren’t getting paid to kill, as its a waste of their skills.

So like, point being, the two of them had HUGE potential for the kind of dynamic Dick and Jason are often characterized with, where they have mutual respect but are mutually vying for the approval of the same figures.

Anyway, after a few months (R:Y1 was vague on the timelines but was clear about the fact that Dick was at the VA for at least a few months, with captions like ‘weeks passed’ etc)....Dick eventually manages to sneak off long enough to sneak into the Batcave and leave a note for Bruce about the Vengeance Academy, what its up to, where to find it, etc. But Dick still goes back, rather than wait for Bruce himself, because he still doesn’t think Bruce wants him anymore.

Eventually, Shrike happens to get hired to take out Two-Face, and of course happens to assign Boone and Dick as the leads to conduct that assassination. They and the other boys break into Two-Face’s mansion, Dick’s literally holding a gun on Harvey and having flashbacks to Two-Face beating him almost to death and Bruce firing him in the aftermath and everything that’s happened since then....but at the last minute, Dick decides he won’t do it, throws the gun away instead, and as Two-Face’s guards all burst in, the boys all run.

But then back at Vengeance Academy, they of course all tell Shrike what happened, and Shrike just starts beating on Dick, shouting how ungrateful he is, etc, etc, what a waste of time and effort he’s turned out to be....and that’s when Bruce arrives, takes on Shrike’s men, etc.

In the confusion, Shrike slips away, and then at some point, he and Dick end up facing across from each other on a rafter high up by the ceiling...where Shrike figures out that Dick is the one who alerted Batman and starts in on him again, but Dick defends himself....and that’s when Two-Face and his men burst in, having tracked them somehow, and in that ensuing commotion, someone shoots Shrike, he falls from the rafter and ends up impaled on some rebar on the floor or something like that.

Which is where Boone finds him, as he lays there dying, and Boone’s shown being considerably distressed, because he’d been there a lot longer than Dick and had been shown to be significantly attached to Shrike and viewing him as a father figure he was desperate to prove himself to, unlike Dick who was there because he felt he didn’t have a choice or anywhere else to go.

And of course Dick goes back with Bruce, who tells him how much he’s missed him and of course he wants him and is sorry for everything he said and did, they reconcile, Dick becomes Robin again, etc. The very last two pages of the mini end with Dick being introduced to Barbara for the first time by the Commissioner, when she’s on the roof with him while he’s talking with Batman and Robin....but also, Talia comes to survey the remains of Vengeance Academy, since it was League-affiliated...and takes Boone with her back to the League for further training.

Eventually, Boone grows up to take the name Shrike for himself, in honor of his former teacher, and he’s OBSESSED with avenging the original Shrike by killing Nightwing, who he knows is his former classmate, due to Robin then Nightwing’s style of fighting, and his penchant for using escrima sticks.

(Interestingly, Dick only started using escrima sticks as his signature weapon in his first solo Nightwing title, with this stemming from Chuck Dixon’s writing him doing so....and Dixon also wrote R:Y1, which is where he then established that Vengeance Academy is where Dick first learned to use escrima sticks and gained a preference for them. So its always been kinda fascinating to me that Dick’s had his skills with those since literally his very first year as Robin....BUT then never used them as Robin, while Batman’s partner....but after becoming Nightwing and moving to Bludhaven, for whatever reason returned to using those particular weapons and making them his signature).

Anyway, point is, Boone calls Dick Freddy, because that was what he knew him as when they were kids....after he ran away, Dick started using the alias Freddy Lloyd. Lloyd was his mother’s maiden name, and I used to think Freddy was a reference to Alfred, but only recently realized that its actually Dick’s dad’s middle name.

So Shrike was brought back in the Nightwing solo title as a recurring enemy of Dick’s, with varying degrees of effectiveness. In later years, he was kinda made into a joke and not treated as much of a threat, but for awhile there, he was characterized as very much being a threat to Dick, and at a similar level skill wise, thanks to his own extensive League training. He captured Dick in their first encounter in Bludhaven, where he then tried to figure out Dick’s real identity by running his fingerprints and DNA (though Babs was able to intercept his attempt to run those through the system and replace the findings with a fake profile). He also even managed to defeat Dinah, though as much by trickery as straight out and out fighting...but still, Dinah’s one of THE top hand to hand combatants in the DC universe so, not exactly a small feat. He also faced off with Tim and Cass at one point, while they were Batgirl and Robin, and though he defeated Tim relatively easily (this was still fairly early in Tim’s career as Robin though), he ultimately lost to Cass. But again, who doesn’t lose to Cass, y’know?

So I mean, he definitely has skills and is a credible threat. Dick beat him after Dinah and Babs rescued him from Boone that first time, and Boone ended up in Bludhaven’s prison.....but then escaped and was later hired by Blockbuster as one of the assassins gunning for Dick. He and Dick had one more epic fight as one of the final elements of the Blockbuster arc, but by this time Dick was channeling so much rage when he went after Blockbuster at his mansion, where Shrike was lying in wait, that Dick pretty much just kicked Boone’s ass up and down the street and around the corner and left him chained up to a flagpole.

Like, I’m pretty sure that fight is what’s made later writers deem him not as high caliber a fight or threat as he later was referenced as being, but that wasn’t really the point of that fight, lol. How handily Dick kicked his ass there was in context clearly meant to read as just how fucking enraged Dick was at this point, due to Blockbuster’s campaign against him, and how much Dick’s OWN threat level went through the roof when he allowed himself to use that degree of anger while fighting Boone, rather than repress it. It was very much a “you’re only in my league when I’m afraid to go full throttle, when I take the safeties off though its no contest” kinda thing.

But anyway, he didn’t get used much again pre-Flashpoint, and hasn’t made an appearance since, to my knowledge, but using pre-Flashpoint based settings or continuities....Boone’s very much a credible threat to Dick, has a ton of history with him, and a huge ax to grind with their last encounter having him vow that this wasn’t over between them.

And like the thing is, its not just about getting revenge against Dick because he blames him for the original Shrike’s death. Like, its very much a rivalry that stems back to before the first Shrike died. Boone has pretty much always been shown to desperately want, need to be better than Dick, that’s what keeps him coming back and that’s what he really holds against Dick and always has...and its not just their skills, its that Dick’s a hero, that they ultimately came from the same place but Dick’s loved and revered for his skills and choices while Boone has nothing and no one, and insists its because Dick took away the only person Boone ever had....though the reality that both of them are probably perfectly aware of is that Shrike never actually gave a damn for any of the kids he trained, even if he showed favor to Dick and Boone in particular. But Shrike for a time made Boone feel special, made him feel like he had a place and a purpose, and its clear he’s never really found anything like that ever again....and really, he never had it at Vengeance Academy either, but he’s been able to romanticize it in his own mind and memories as being otherwise.

Whereas for Dick....this relationship always had so much more potential than anyone ever truly delved into, but the basic material and hints were always there. My read of them was always that for Dick, Boone kind of embodied the idea of being his own dark mirror....he was an example of what Dick could have been, if he’d embraced VA and Shrike the way Boone had, out of a lack of options, instead of returning with Bruce and giving him another chance, and Bruce taking another chance on Dick.

In a lot of ways, R:Y1 - even though its events only happened because of shit Bruce never should have laid on Dick, driving him away in the first place....looked at through the eyes of a ten year old Dick Grayson who’d in the span of a couple years gone from losing his former circus home and parents, to juvie (Dixon wrote both R:Y1 and the Robin origin that had Dick go to juvie, so that was the specific context for all stories related to Shrike), to Wayne Manor, where he ultimately became Robin....and after not even a full year as Robin.....Dick then ended up on the streets and then spending months training at a facility for orphans and street kids to be made assassins....before ultimately returning to Wayne Manor, Bruce and being Robin.....

Like, its easy to see how to Dick, all of this probably looked almost like Bruce had saved him from worse circumstances and his own worse nature not once, but twice....even if the second time could have been avoided. The point is though, I don’t think Dick ever forgot his time there, his own desperate need for Shrike’s approval (and he did very much want it while he was there....he was hurting, he’d gotten used to having an adult who cared about him again, and with him feeling like Bruce had rejected him and in doing so taken away all the approval he’d given him previously, make no mistake, Dick very much DID desperately want an authority figure’s approval, and his rivalry with Boone WAS a two-way street.

Dick perhaps wanted Boone’s friendship a little more than the other way around, I’d wager, given that Dick’s a more social, friendly person by nature, he wants to get along with people....but VA was a very definitively dog eat dog kind of place and Dick did not seem above reveling in the scraps of approval Shrike threw him at times like the mission he and Boone fought about, even though he knew how much it dug at Boone to see himself knocked down a peg by their teacher with the latter then praising Dick at the same time.

So my point being...I don’t think Dick’s ever forgotten his time at VA, or what he felt like while living there.....how close he came to shooting Two-Face in revenge for all that he blamed Two-Face for costing him....as well as remembering that for awhile, he and Boone very much were a kind of friends, even if they never were like say, he was with the Titans (who he’d yet to meet at this point in the timeline). Like, I’d characterize the two of them as one of those things where they probably wouldn’t have been friends under other circumstances, or even call themselves friends, but it was more they were the only ones who displayed having any kind of connection to each other, at a time and place in their lives where they didn’t really have anyone else.

So all of that added up, yeah, to me, Boone in Dick’s eyes is a kind of regret, and road not taken. He’s what Dick could have been if Dick didn’t have Bruce in his corner...if he, like Boone, hadn’t had anyone BUT Shrike. Dick likely can easily look at Boone and see what his life might have turned out like if he HAD shot Two-Face that night, because I don’t think Dick would ever believe there’s any way Bruce would have taken him back after that....meaning that he really WOULD have had nowhere else to go at that point...and thus easily could have ended up continuing at VA or even going to the League with Boone and Talia.

And because of all of that, my read on Dick’s attitude towards Boone was always that....its a blend of defensive antagonism and also some guilt and romanticized nostalgia. Dick’s defensive in response to Boone’s antagonism, because he isn’t to blame for Shrike’s death and knows it, just as he knows he’s not really worth mourning and didn’t care about either of them....but Dick’s ALSO defensive because every time Boone hurls an accusation at him about how Dick’s not any better than him - not skill wise, but as people - Dick, IMO, ABSOLUTELY AGREES AND BELIEVES THE SAME. The flip side of the coin that is seeing Boone as what he could have been....is that he himself then, is perhaps what BOONE could have been, if Boone had been the one to get the opportunities that Dick had.

And THAT, I think, is the source of the weird almost guilt that Dick has occasionally had in regards to Boone...this belief that he isn’t innately any better than his one-time sorta friend, and that he’s not any innately more deserving of the opportunities he got via Bruce, and that Boone never was afforded. That with someone in his corner, rather than just seeking to exploit him, Boone could have been every bit the hero Dick grew up to be. That he really did have someone who loved and cared for him, in Bruce, while Boone only has his desperate, misguided belief that Shrike felt the same about him, because there was nobody else to even point to as a possibility for that. I think when Dick thinks of Boone, there’s always this kinda hazy ‘what if’ where he idly wonders what if he could have convinced Boone that Shrike’s death wasn’t his fault, or that Shrike didn’t care about them...and got Boone to come with him, or got Bruce to find Boone. What if he’d tried reaching out to Bruce about VA earlier, or not avoided him so long, and Bruce had been able to come earlier, when there was a chance that other boys besides just Dick could have been ‘saved’ from the life Shrike tried to convince them was the ONLY life path where they’d have any power or influence, where they’d ever matter, at all.

So...I just think there’s so so so so many possibilities with this largely untouched little corner of Dick’s history, and this one specific character it intersected with, and hardly has ever been followed up on. Boone and Dick have just soooooooo much potential to have the intense, emotionally charge love/hate kind of rivalry between a hero and villain or even just mercenary or antihero, that Dick’s so often characterized as having with Slade or Jason.....

But the thing is, here? There’s no need to invent or embellish antagonism between Dick and someone else, the way fandom’s largely made up the iconic antagonism between Dick and Jay. The antagonism is very much real, between Dick and Boone, very much understandable, and most importantly, very much MUTUAL. It exists on Dick’s part every bit as much as Boone’s....Dick was almost kinda gleeful about kicking Boone’s ass that first time in Bludhaven and coming out on top, in a way that he rarely is in his victories....because its very easy to see how these two could easily slip back into a familiar rivalry and desire to one-up each other, the way they had as desperate, emotionally neglected children. Dick has the potential to be PETTY with Boone in a way that people WANT to write him being with others where he’s just NOT and likely never would be, because Dick’s someone who’s aware of how others perceive him, and privileges he has that others don’t, and stuff like that....all of that plays into why Dick so often tries so hard and intently to be his best self with people even when he’d rather not be.

But with Boone, you can potentially throw all that out the window, due to the very precise nature of when and where in their lives that Boone and Dick had their short term but very emotionally impactful pseudo-friendship and early rivalry. Because even if Dick feels a little guilty for getting the life he did and that Boone didn’t - that’s not his FAULT, and he does know that too, just as he knows he’s not to blame for the things Boone resents him for.....and even if part of Dick probably feels a little sorry for Boone, he also knows that doesn’t mean that Boone hasn’t made his own choices and there comes a point where its put up or shut up time, and you can keep blaming anyone and everyone for your life or you can look around and acknowledge that here and now, nobody is holding a gun to Boone’s head and saying you have to kill people, you have to fight Dick for this and this reason....and so on that front, Dick can more willingly and without guilt push back against his own feelings of guilt and pity and let out his own pettiness and resentments for Boone having made him into this scapegoat.

All of which makes for a perfect storm of emotionally charged interactions any and every encounter between these two highly skilled individuals with equally extensive lifetimes of training under their belts....all against a backdrop of mingled resentment, nostalgia, and squandered potential brotherhood thanks to this bubble in time from both their childhoods where they were briefly friends, brothers in arms, rivals, and both everything the other had and everything the other never became or ever wanted to be.

With the cherry on top being that Boone is literally the ONLY LIVING PERSON IN THE WORLD....who has knowledge or awareness of the ten or eleven year old Dick Grayson was at one of the darkest periods of his life, where he believed himself completely alone and unloved and with NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE. Meaning that when Boone - and Boone alone - says he knows Dick in a way that nobody else does or ever could, even BRUCE, that he knows a side of Dick that nobody else will ever be privy to, that tiny sliver of Dick Grayson that stood over Two-Face’s trembling body with a gun and had the POTENTIAL to pull the trigger.....

He is absolutely and one hundred percent correct.

Like...you can’t TELL me that’s not good stuff.

Also, I’ve just always loved that trope where one person refers to someone by a name NOBODY else knows them as....with that name having meaning to the two of them alone.

Like to Boone....Dick is Freddy Lloyd. He knows that’s not Dick’s name, he always knew that, just like Boone probably isn’t his.....but the person Boone knew was named Freddy Lloyd, and that person was real, even if nobody else has ever truly known “Freddy” because that’s not who Dick has ever been to them, or who he’s been AROUND them. Boone might not know Dick’s actual real name and where to find him in the phone book, but he’s known from day one that Nightwing’s secret identity is Freddy Lloyd, like he knew instantly from seeing Nightwing fight with a pair of escrima sticks that the person under the mask was his old friend Freddy, and that Nightwing used to be the first Robin which means Robin was Freddy too. He lived with him for months, neither of them wearing masks, he would recognize him if they passed on the street.

(Although with this point, its why I’ve personally always been kind of dubious about the plot point of having Boone try so hard to figure out Dick’s real identity....like, honestly, that story point doesn’t really hold up. Boone SHOULD be able to identify Dick as easily as he identified Nightwing. Dick Grayson, ward and eventual adopted son of Bruce Wayne, has been a HIGHLY visible individual at various points in his life.

I can easily believe that Bruce invested considerable effort in keeping Dick out of the public eye when Dick first came to live with him and was still adjusting and recovering - in fact, given that all of this is in context with the juvie origin, I’ve always headcanoned that Bruce probably spared no expense in covering up Dick’s time there as much as possible, so he wouldn’t be bombarded with additional stigma from people misconstruing that, and with more than enough evidence against the state for fucking up so badly with Dick there, he could have slapped any official evidence of Dick’s time there with so many gag orders nobody felt safe breathing a word about it.

All of which is to say, its very plausible to me that Dick wasn’t publicly recognizable by the time he ran away during Robin: Year One, and Bruce certainly wouldn’t have advertised that, and who knows what strings he had to pull or things he had to fake to keep CPS off his back until he found Dick, out of fear that otherwise, people would take Dick away once he did get him back. So I can imagine Freddy not being recognized by Shrike or Boone while he was with them. What I can’t imagine is Boone never turning on the TV or reading an article about Bruce Wayne and family in years after that, and ever once thinking to himself that Dick looks JUST like his old friend Freddy...and once you have that thought as a starting point, it SHOULD definitely be possible to dig a little deeper and find out stuff that confirms it, like the timelines of Dick coming to live with Bruce versus being mysteriously unavailable or out of sight anywhere, until just after the fall of Vengeance Academy, etc. But yeah. My point is, I maintain that Boone absolutely knows that Nightwing is Freddy is Dick and that particular plot point is dumb.)

Anyway, my point with that tangent is like....imagine Boone and Dick tangling at various points over the years, both equally determined and invested in coming out on top....with many of these encounters happening at times Dick is away from his family, like when he was living in Bludhaven....

But inevitably, they’re bound to clash in full view of the Batfamily, who bear witness for the first time to this unleashed side of Dick NONE of them have ever seen, never even imagined him acting like this, holding this....grudge against someone with a seemingly equivalent grudge and none of them can really account for why. Imagine their reactions to hearing Boone casually call Dick “Freddy” and like...this means something to Dick, he’s not surprised by it, but he’s not treating it like its some alias from a random undercover op, like, its like he IS Freddy, like its his own name, but at the same time...who the fuck is Freddy? They all want to know. Even Bruce might have trouble placing Boone or his connection to Dick at first, because there’s no reason he would have ever found out the alias Dick went by at the time, if Dick never felt a reason to tell him.

Imagine the truth of where and when and how Boone and Dick are connected slowly unfolding (to my recollection, in the comics I don’t think he ever even told Babs the full story, even after she and Dinah saved him from Boone....just a few terse references, from what I remember, and again....according to the same writer to write all of these various connected stories....Boone actually knew Dick BEFORE Babs even met him for the first time as either Dick Grayson OR Robin).

Its entirely possible the rest of the family doesn’t even know any of R:Y1 happened. Sure, I think they all know the basics of Two-Face beating Dick almost to death when he’d only been Robin a short time, but do they know that Bruce fired him then? That Dick ran away to live on the streets and then ended up being trained as an assassin for months by a League-affiliated supervillain? I’d doubt it, because who would tell them? I can’t imagine its a time or a part of his life Dick wants to volunteer to anyone, and Bruce probably still feels guilty so I doubt he’d ever volunteer that information. And Alfred I imagine would feel its not his place to be the one to drop that info on any of the others without Bruce or Dick’s say-so.

Like sure, Bruce has files on all of that time, probably, but even with their hacking prowess, would even Babs or Tim have had time to hunt down and go through every single file Bruce has ever created....especially ones he might have tucked away for being particularly sensitive or private, and how do even the best hackers guarantee hunting down files they don’t even know they’re looking for? For that matter, it strikes me that as much as we tend to make a fanon trope out of Babs or Tim knowing everything about everyone because they can access any file, even hidden or locked ones...that IS intrusive and there’s plenty of old files about Bruce or Dick they probably never looked at because there’s a point where that’s none of their business, like if its not an official case they need info for, they should be asking directly, not snooping behind closed doors.

So....its entirely likely, the more I think about it, that all of this would be a family secret that would be an utter revelation to most of them in its entirety.

And you think there’s potential for resentment between Dick and Boone.....imagine throwing the family into it, and how Dick’s brothers and sister feel about this mercenary and assassin who claims to know more about their brother than they do, know him better than any of them ever have....and think, from a certain angle....oh fuck, he’s actually not entirely wrong?

Just.

More Boone. More Shrike. More Vengeance Academy.

THERE IS SO MUCH UNTAPPED POTENTIAL THERE, UGGGGGGGH.

Also also also: I present to you - in context of all of the above - the possibility of magical body or life swapping stories a la Freaky Friday??? Like....UMMM COULD YOU IMAGINE??!!!

#boone aka shrike

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fermented-writers-block · 5 years

Text

Why I think the actual Angel is Noelle Holiday

After nine months of research, procrastination, and working out the kinks, here’s a little theory of mine that’s been floating around in my head ever since the end of last November about Noelle Holiday and her potential role in the future of the series. It’s a bit of a long read, but I hope you’ll be willing to indulge me and give this crazy theory a chance.

As a forewarning, the following points I will be bringing up are simply too hefty to make a TLDR for, and it’s quite a long read, but trust me, you’re going to want to read through all of it for it to make sense in the end

Part 1: The Possible Evolution of the Delta Rune

First off, I’d like to look at the Delta Rune itself and a few easily overlooked key lines Gerson says about it:

That emblem actually predates written history.

The original meaning has been lost to time…

All we know is that the triangles symbolize us monsters below, and the winged circle above symbolizes…

Somethin' else.

The meaning and design of symbols can change over time, and it’s likely the same has happened to the way the Delta Rune is currently interpreted compared to when it first came into existence. For example, take a look at these variations of the Delta Rune:

Of these variations of the Delta Rune, these may be some of the oldest or closest iterations of the symbol to the original design, especially the ones from the intro cutscene and Gerson’s shop. The former is presumably from long before the Human-Monster War and thus the oldest version, and with Gerson’s apparent age and how he implies that he studies history, it is likely that the variation in his shop is also as close as can be to the original.

As for how these particular iterations of the Delta Rune fit into my theory, look at the design and positioning of the wings in these probably older iterations compared to likely more modern interpretations:

On the more recent interpretations, the base of the wings are placed around the same level as the center of the circle, and the wings themselves are mostly realistically designed. However, on the older interpretations, the wings are more simplified and stylized with more of an explicit arc to them, and the ‘feathers’ are more blocky with visible and sometimes significant spaces in between. Now keep that in mind when looking at these pictures:

Taking this into account, I think it is possible that - through the help of time and redesigns becoming successively more stylized - what was originally supposed to be a reindeer with antlers slowly got distorted and misremembered as a ‘winged circle.”

And maybe, something like this might even apply to Deltarune’s version of the Delta Rune as well given how several of the depictions of the Angel throughout the game look like the transition point between the older and newer designs, what with the ‘feathers’ being much rounder and closer together while still on an arc-based stylized design instead of a realistic wing-like design:

Part 2: The Origins of Modern Christmas

Now, with that established, let’s take a closer look at Noelle and her family.

Besides the obvious exception of Lancer, she has the most dialogue of all the NPCs, gets two entire scenes to herself in the hospital with her dad and outside her house to flesh out her character and crush on Susie compared to several other NPCs getting only a few lines of dialogue at most, and it is absolutely required to talk to her at the beginning of the game in order to even progress and end up in the Dark World.

As many other posts than mine have demonstrated, this suspicious level of detail has led a lot of people to theorize that Noelle will be an important character and that she might even be playable later on, a theory which has certainly been helped by Toby Fox’s original concept art of “THE FUN GANG” showing that her character has been in development for a LONG time - perhaps even from when work on Deltarune was just beginning - and that she may have been designed as a main character from the start.

However, much like how the potential origins of Undertale’s Delta Rune point towards the importance of reindeer in the series, I believe the deeper origins behind the names of the Holiday family similarly point towards Noelle’s true role in Deltarune.

Obviously, the name Rudy is a clear reference to the famous Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, and Dess is most likely a reference to how Christmas is celebrated in the month of December. However, as Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer was created in 1939 for the Montgomery Ward department store chain, he is actually a relatively new addition to the list of Santa’s reindeer, whom in of themselves are early 19th Century additions to the image of Santa Claus - a figure tracing back to the 4th Century Christian bishop Saint Nicholas.

And on Jesus’ birth being on the 25th of December for Dess’ name, from what I’ve gathered with my google-fu, the event may have actually taken place less on December 25 and more during the fall or spring due to mentions of shepherds tending to their sheep in the scripture as well as from several attempts to connect the Star of Bethlehem with recorded astronomical events.

In fact, it seems likely that - in the 4th Century - the church might have actually chosen the date either because of coming to the conclusion that Jesus’ conception took place on the spring solstice - aka March 25, nine months before December 25 - or because they wanted to increase the popularity of Christianity through adopting and appropriating pagan winter solstice festivals like the Yule and Saturnalia holidays around the same time of year.

On the flipside, Noelle is a name that has a particularly distinct connection to Christmas; specifically, to the one for whom the holiday is named for in the first place rather than a recent secular addition or the general time in which said holiday is celebrated.

From what I’ve seen, Noelle as a name traces back to the French word ‘noel,’ which - alongside referring to Christmas carols - is a variant form of the word ‘Nael.’ This form comes from the noun use of the Latin adjective natalis, meaning of, or belonging to, one’s birth. The noun use (from natalis dies, day of birth) denoted a birthday, an anniversary, a commemorative festival, hence in ecclesiastical Latin the festival of the nativity of Christ, Christmas.

Basically, out of all the names of the Holiday family, Noelle’s is the one that most directly ties into the actual origins of Christmas in how the name’s origins heavily revolve around the birth of Jesus Christ, a major religious figure who was to be a sacrifice for humanity’s sins and to provide a way into heaven.

Considering Toby Fox’s attention to hidden details and deeper meanings and how angels are heavily associated with and are depicted in Christianity - particularly in relation to Jesus - there may be further significance to Toby picking a name that’s typically given to girls born around or on Christmas day. After all, even if it may or may not be the actual day of Jesus’ birth, it is widely celebrated and recognized as such.

However, as you’ll see at the end, I think there’s even another layer of meaning to Noelle Holiday’s name than just this one.

Part 3: Reindeer in Undertale

On a slightly different topic, while it’s hard to ignore how more prominently featured Christmas iconography and figures in the foreground of the series - what with the introduction of the Holiday family as well as several jokes about “Krismas” and Santa Claus in Deltarune, I believe it may also be important to pay attention to Undertale’s fair share of Christmas-themed details.

Namely, in how a significant amount of them owe their existence to one specific minor character; aka the rather unusually designed Gyftrot.

In contrast to the handful of implications that Asgore is the Underground’s Santa only being implicitly hinted at through extended dialogue and checking his bureau, Snowdin’s tradition of putting presents under decorated trees is blatantly and conspicuously out in the open.

And as Gift Bear explains if you talk to them, said tradition originated not with wherever Asgore’s Santa outfit and apparent moonlighting came from, but rather came about in the first place as a way to make Gyftrot feel better after some teens decorated his horns.

As to why I am calling Gyftrot unusually designed, it is because of his rounded head and sideways mouth - a trait only seen elsewhere in the DT Extraction Machine, Photoshop Flowey, and Sans’ Gaster Blasters.

Of all the conversations and theories I’ve seen about this strange detail, most people were only able to come up with the explanation that Toby simply liked the design and reused it for Gyftrot just for fun without any deeper meaning to it, or that Toby unintentionally gave it to Gyftrot while making Undertale.

However, a third explanation I found is that Gyftrot’s design may actually be foreshadowing for what Photoshop Flowey’s appearance looks like, what with how Gyftrot actually seems to have a second pair of eyes at the base of his antlers, and how one of the decorations he spawns with is a picture between his four eyes in a very similar position to the television screen on Photoshop Flowey.

To my knowledge, this explanation and comparison has only been made in conjunction by two people, with user u/Peridotthepie providing the explanation and and user u/pleasespellicup providing the following picture in the linked post.

While I can’t see any other possible parallels between the two to fully call this foreshadowing - especially with how the picture decoration isn’t guaranteed to show up on every playthrough and how obscure it is - I’d like to propose the idea that the DT Extraction Machine (and perhaps the Gaster Blasters by extension) may very well be based on Gyftrot or a relative with a similar design in-universe.

After all, not even boss monsters leave behind anything more than a pile of dust when they die, not even a goat-like skull that could be used as a reference, whereas Gyftrot is a living, walking example of such a design, complete with what even seems to be a SOUL-shaped hole in his mouth.

Not only that, but given how attentive to detail and deeper meanings Toby has shown himself to be as well as the increased prominence and importance of reindeer/Christmas themes in general for Deltarune, I find it incredibly unlikely that this design choice was made just for fun or as an accident.

On a bit of a side note, it is interesting that we first learned of the name “Rudy” in a post from September 17, 2017 on Undertale’s 2nd anniversary and alarm clock app.

Considering the apparent parallels between Undertale and Deltarune - for example, the potential connection between Susie and the ‘Suzy’ character mentioned by Clam Girl, who appears to have ties to Gaster - and the implications of the dialogue in that post, it’s likely that Undertale Rudy is also a reindeer just like his counterpart, and I would not be surprised if he was also related to Gyftrot as well.

As for what the exact deeper meaning or in-universe explanation behind Gyftrot could be, it’s too early to tell, but I have the feeling that it likely ties heavily into Noelle’s circumstances in Deltarune and some of the effects of the DT Extraction Machine on Undertale’s plot as detailed below.

Part 4: Determining Other Connections

To explain what I’m talking about, let’s take a closer look at a few key lab entries by Alphys, starting with this one:

ENTRY NUMBER 5: I've done it. Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs. I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death. The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power... "Determination."*

While not explicitly confirmed, from the name and surrounding context, it is likely that the blueprints Alphys used were for the DT Extraction Machine and that DT stands for Determination, though it is unknown whether Alphys built the machine from the blueprints or if it was already constructed and she merely used the blueprints to operate it.

Either way, as we all know, things went horribly wrong from there. Alphys had accidentally turned those who had “fallen down” into the Amalgamates, created Flowey from the flower whose seeds Asriel had brought from the surface, and fell into a nervous downward spiral while wracked with guilt.

Now, I want to focus on just how the Amalgamates had been created, particularly with these entries:

ENTRY NUMBER 6: ASGORE asked everyone outside the city for monsters that had "fallen down." Their bodies came in today. They're still comatose... And soon, they'll all turn into dust. But what happens if I inject "determination" into them? If their SOULS persist after they perish, then... Freedom might be closer than we all thought.

ENTRY NUMBER 12: nothing is happening. i don't know what to do. i'll just keep injecting everything with "determination." i want this to work.

ENTRY NUMBER 17: monsters' physical forms can't handle "determination" like humans can. with too much determination, our bodies begin to break down. everyone's melted together…

Here, I’d like to draw your attention to a few things. Given the surrounding context, “falling down” seems to be a condition - one that potentially originates from age, injury, or some kind of illness - involving or causes monsters to enter a comatose state and eventually die.

And in Entry 17, there is the interesting wording of the line “with too much determination, our bodies begin to break down.” From how it’s phrased, it seems that, instead of melting from any amount of Determination in their systems whatsoever, monsters can handle Determination without having to fear of their bodies breaking down, though obviously there’s a cap to how much they are able to handle.

As for why I’m making this particular distinction, it’s because of Noelle’s situation with her father and how it may proceed beyond Chapter 1 in the future.

With the implication that Undertale Rudy had passed away a while ago, Deltarune Rudy’s conversations with and about Noelle, and Deltarune’s apparent theme of choices not mattering - or at least, not in the long run - it seems pretty likely that DR Rudy is suffering from a case of the foreboding coughs of death and that he may even “fall down” later on.

As such, it wouldn’t be surprising if his condition keeps worsening all the way until he ends up on his deathbed/in a coma/legitimately dead no matter what the doctors or Noelle and such do to help, and neither would it be surprising for her to be seriously affected and react in a severe way as a result.

I mean, Rudy openly talks about how everything scares her, even ironically Santa Claus, and as the classroom scene demonstrates, she has trouble mustering up the courage and confidence to assert herself to the point where even Alphys asks her to speak up.

Considering that her father openly talks about how defenseless she is and how he worries about not being able to protect her from his hospital bed, his death/apparently inevitable upcoming death would no doubt drastically impact her, especially if she attempted as much as she could to stop it to no avail.

Sometimes, one can be driven to desperation to do crazy things as a result of love and worry, and Noelle may very well do the same out of love for her father. If at least some of Undertale’s rules about SOULS and monsters also apply to the world of Deltarune, then there may only be one way - or at the very least, what she feels might be the only option left - in the end for Noelle to potentially give her father the strength to persist and the will to keep living, perhaps even after death.

Or in other words, potentially through extracting enough Determination from a human SOUL to inject into and potentially save her father/bring him back to life.

If the SOUL we the players control is or is close enough to a human SOUL to work, no other human characters/SOULS pop up later, and Noelle somehow finds out about the power of Determination and becomes resolved to use it, then there may be few - if any - things we will be able to do to dissuade her from going after Kris/wherever the SOUL we control goes.

Now, this is where what I think could be the second meaning behind Noelle’s name points would come into play, and in quite an important way.

For those that don’t know, if you enter Susie, Kris, or Noelle as the creator’s name in Deltarune’s introduction, you get the interesting following response:

“YOU ARE ABOUT TO MEET SOMEONE VERY, VERY WONDERFUL.”

With how anagrams appear to be a major theme of Deltarune in both a naming and worldbuilding sense, it's rather curious that of these three names, only two make any actually sensible anagrams. Kris and Susie can be turned into "risk" and "issue,” but Noelle oddly appears to buck the trend.

However, I think the answer for this ties back to Lab Entry 17. You see, in toxicology research terms, Alphys had injected more than “the highest dose at which there was not an observed toxic or adverse effect.”

Interestingly, this level of dosage is known as the No Observable Adverse Effect Level, or the term NOAEL for short. And sometimes, when describing and looking for an effect in general than just specifically adverse ones, the term used in toxicology reports is the No Observable Effect Level, or NOEL.

Basically, if Noelle hopes to save her father, she needs to make sure to not inject too much or too little Determination. Otherwise, she’d go below the NOEL, where Ruby would simply not have enough strength to keep living, or above the NOAEL, where Rudy would seem to be fine for a while at first before inevitably melting down.

And with that, Noelle’s strangely un-anagramable name can be reconciled with Kris and Susie’s, all three names relating to terms often used to describe something problematic in a scientific way.

In fact, one could even say that the terms their names correspond to sound like they would fit very well in a lab or experiment report, perhaps one involving interesting increases in darkness, like an imbalance in Dark Fountains…

Part 5: Conclusions

Of course, I do realize that that last bit is quite a stretch to suggest, even in comparison to the rest of my theory and particularly the latter half of the above section. As of now, there’s no real way of telling how these details actually connect in this way or if they really even connect to each other in the first place, let alone if they even operate on similar enough rules like my theory presumes.

Heck, with the shortage of clear definitive details about W.D. Gaster, the apparent differences between the worlds of Deltarune and Undertale, and how things may change or have already changed in development in between games and chapters, it’s entirely possible that the series will take a very different direction than the one laid out here.

Perhaps we haven’t even heard of the character who is the actual Angel and everything we’ve seen so far are just red herrings. Maybe Ralsei’s legend will be revealed to have been falsified and he and/or Asriel will turn out to be the Angel like commonly theorized. For all we know, the world of Deltarune might not even precede OR succeed Undertale’s, and it’ll turn out that both worlds are derived from a third, unaltered world/timeline.

But whatever it may be, at the point we currently are at now, I find that my most likely candidate for the Angel is Noelle Holiday. On their own, the details supporting my theory would be easy to disregard and aur tenuous at best when taken by themselves, but when taken together as a whole, it’s hard to deny that they VERY much look like they start to frame a pretty concerning picture about the exact role of reindeer across the entire series.

I mean, even if stuff like Determination turn out to not exist - or at least, don’t work the same way they do in Undertale at all - in Deltarune, the following general sequence of events seem likely to happen for me; that Rudy might get worse to the point of almost dying/actually dying, that Noelle might turn to something just as equally rather dangerous or desperate as extracting Determination in order to save/bring back her father, and that what she does may involve/cause her to somehow become the Angel.

Besides, like we can see from the introduction to Deltarune Chapter 1, it would be much like Toby to play with our expectations from Undertale and set us up to suspect that Ralsei or Asriel may be the Angel while he sets up the real Angel elsewhere.

After all, just about every good magic trick and literature twist relies on the art of misdirection at least in some part, subtly distracting the audience while the real clues are being built up in plain sight.

Like, for example, using the power of fluffy boys to deflect attention from the reindeer in the background.

#deltarune #undertale #deltarune theory #deltarune noelle #noelle holiday #delta rune #the angel #aka: toby’s bamboozled us again folks

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