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chirpsythismorning · 5 months

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Fun fact: the shot of Mike stepping off the cliff in s1 was likely a visual parallel to Sarah jumping off the stairs in this shot from Labyrinth (1986).

For those that haven't read this theory, please do because I didn’t make these observations myself and the original post goes a lot deeper into the details from Labyrinth, which in some ways align a little too conveniently with the narrative we’re seeing unravel on the show with Mike over the seasons.

For some basic context, in s4, we even get a reference to M.C. Escher’s Relativity hanging on the wall in Mike’s room, which is also on the wall of Sarah’s bedroom, along with that work being what inspired the scene in Labyrinth.

This next part has actually been talked about before quite a bit in the fandom, even outside of tumblr, so it’s not exactly some breakthrough as a concept on its own.

Every season, in the first scene (re)introducing the main characters, Mike is running late in some capacity. In 1x01 it’s around 3 minutes, in 2x01 it’s around 6 minutes, in 3x01 it’s around 8 minutes, and in 4x01 it’s around 13 minutes.

So technically not the literal season opener, as that’s usually reserved to a flashback at some different location, but obviously still within those first 15 minutes, following directly after the opener…

And since we already have an idea of what the opening of s5 is going to be, what do we think the scene directly after it is going to be? You know, in the scene that Mike has been consistently running late in, for four seasons now?

Speaking of 15 minutes, I think that if they were to keep this trend going for the final season (the full circle-ness of it all is honestly too epic to pass up), it’s likely that this final time it will happen around the 15 minute mark of 5x01, as that would make the build up for it each season pretty consistent.

And not only that, but it would also literally be a callback to what Karen says to Mike that first time he’s late in s1:

And here’s my other favorite line from one of these scenes, in the context of this theory, because it literally acknowledges this concept directly and with this air of foreshadowing I cannot stress enough:

Interestingly, another detail that ties all these ‘Mike being late’ scenes together, is stairs.

In s1 he’s running up the stairs to convince his mom to let them keep playing.

In s2 he’s rushing down the stairs trying to avoid Nancy’s wrath.

In s3 he’s awkwardly bumping into strangers going down the escalator in Starcourt Mall.

And in s4 he’s hurrying down the stairs on his way to school.

The whole point of Labyrinth is that it’s an allegory for growing up, with Sarah going from dressing up as a princess to reenact one of her favorite fairytales after being chastised by her step-mom for not going on more dates like girls her age, to Sarah rejecting her childhood and it leading to an unfortunate series of events, forcing her to face reality and take responsibility of her own life.

Does this sound like anyone we know?

Mike, who starts the show in s1 playing DND animatedly with his friends before being interrupted by his mom to end the campaign despite protests, to his mom in s2 punishing his bad behavior by having him get rid of some of his favorite toys, to him in s3 insisting that they’re 'not kids anymore' and that it was inevitable for them to stop playing games and grow up and get girlfriends, to him now in s4 reverting back to this earlier version of himself, sporting the Hellfire shirt proudly, to then reverting back to pretending when showing up at the airport with Argyle calling his outfit a shitty knock off (aka calling Mike a shitty knock-off), and without the story ever acknowledging why those shifts happened in the first place, and with one season left?

Hint? Forced conformity. That’s what’s killing the kids. That’s the real monster.

They literally told us already that out of all the monster we've seen in the show, this is what is worse than all of that. Meaning that what is about to go down, most likely topping everything we've seen up to this point, is likely going to involve forced conformity.

I also think it’s interesting that the scene in Labyrinth happened during the climax of the film, because arguably if you were to watch Stranger Things in its entirety, from s1-5, the beginning of s5 is going to feel very much like the climax to the overall story.

Things are going to be happening fast. The stakes are insane because they need to top everything that they’ve done up to this point. Something’s gotta give. And Mike is just not looking safe out here guys.

I could go on and on about all the hints that Mike is danger, but I’ll just share my favorites.

How am I gonna survive a whole week without you guys? Mike says, at the tail end of his opening scene in s4, and with s5 set to start at the end of said week.

Mike sitting in front of an antique funeral home fan in the s4 promotional pictures of the party in the Creel attic.

Nancy saying she saw Mike die in the vision Vecna showed her, with the early stages of said vision coming true as season 4 nears its end.

Mike getting hit in the head with an arrow front and center by Suzie’s brother, in a sequence that was loaded with foreshadowing for the end of s4 (and beginning of s5?).

Watch out dominos. Your dominos are gonna fall. Argyle says, with Mike equally in the frame behind him.

Without heart, we’d all fall apart. Will says, after telling Mike he’s the heart.

A Karen lookalike standing in front of the missing person's board at the end of s4.

Mike’s very first line in the show (also the literal first line in the show) being A shadow grows on the wall behind you, swallowing you into the darkness. It is almost here…

So maybe, theoretically speaking, what we could get by that 15 minute mark going into s5, is Mike running late one last time, and it potentially being a callback to that cliff scene ie. Labyrinth.

Another scene that I think might've been foreshadowing what is currently going down, is Max and Mike both getting knocked out by Billy at the end of s3. Max goes down first and Mike follows right after, though Max is the first to come to and help them both up.

We know Max is unlikely to be separated from the rest of the characters the whole season, that’s just not feasible. She'll at least be on-screen despite maybe not being back with the others right away, even if it’s just a cryptic cliffhanger at the end of 5x01, followed by her returning more consistently on screen after that leading up to her rescue. With the way things ended in s4 though, we need to know where she’s at and get to finding her. Which is why I think at most it will be a 1-2 episode arc.

So maybe, this moment from s3 was a hint about Max and Mike’s impending doom at the hands of Vecna, as a result of not only their emotional states, but also their bonds with El, and them then being isolated for a short time (presumed dead), only to find their way back?

It’s also worth noting Mike was the only person to witness any of Max’s symptoms from the curse prior to her finding out about it, with the camera focusing on him beside her and looking at her worriedly as her nose bled. We don’t know who Vecna’s fourth victim was going to be, because Max threw herself in as bait, but could it have originally been Mike?

I know a lot of people don't like the Mike getting Vecna'd theories or Mike is depressed takes and so if you find yourself in that position, feel free to subtweet away or whatever you need to cope with my nonsense.

I'm not a big Mike is suicidal truther or anything even, nor do I think it makes sense for him to get Vecna'd in the traditional sense like how it happened with the others in s4 because the gates are open. But Vecna still hasn’t carried out his entire plan, a plan that includes Mike dying. And the imagery surrounding it all leading up to this is compelling regardless.

If one shot at the end of s3, with Max sitting in Billy's room while Hopper was in the background saying and yeah sometimes it's painful and sometimes it's sad was enough to hint at her whole depression arc in s4, then Mike being focused on for multiple shots while Hopper was in the background saying But, lately, I guess I've been feeling... distant from you. Like you're pulling away from me or something.-- And I guess, if I'm being really honest, that's what scares me. I don't want things to change, with Mike looking longingly at the Byers house, cutting to Will looking out the car window crying, then cutting back to Mike walking into his mom's arms with a dead stare on his face, has gotta be enough to justify dude going through some shit, which coincidentally matches up with everything talked about here.

Turns out getting to Mike, now that was the key…

Maybe the first episode of s5 is about Mike ending up wherever Max is, somewhere caught in between, and them ‘crawling’ back ie. The Crawl.

Definitely might add some context to that funkopop shot-listing video Ross posted, followed by one other photo a few days later with the caption being that they finished shot-listing for 5x01-5x02. Meaning the initial video posted was likely from 5x01...

#stranger things #mike wheeler #are they cool enough to pull this off?#remains to be seen #but why break a four season streak?#something something fifteen after #something something you’re late. again! we’re gonna miss the opening!#something something running up that hill and smalltown boy having almost the exact same fucking beat #also blankly staring at sadie and finn sitting close to each other in the s5 filming announcement pic #with finn being the only one out of all of them holding a script for the crawl 😀

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lesbiradshaw · 1 year

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if they didn’t want me to believe that rooster and hangman were in love then maybe they shouldn’t have included significant scenes of them parting and reuniting that directly parallel each other… just a thought.

#like its kinda crazy the only two people we see bradley Talk To before launching are jake and mav #and jake is the one who seeks him out to basically say goodbye (please make it back) and it seems like it almost prompts bradley into +#finally going to seek out maverick in the same way #‘Hangman walks away; leaving Rooster to contemplate the gravity of what’s happening’#the script supports my spiraling. btw.#idk the implications of the unspoken level of care there is there.#like oooooooohhhhhkay #i could talk about this all day. sorry.#sereshaw #hangster #top gun maverick #tgm

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saints-who-never-existed · 8 months

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Reading the Episode Ten script again, mainly because I had it open the other day to double-check a specific quote, and there are so many wee things that are jumping out at me all over again.

The religious connotations of Goodsir's feet being the only "clean" part of him!

The fact that Crozier manages to signal to Hodgson and Diggle specifically not to eat their own portions of Goodsir while he's eating his!

This little quote: "Circuits are frying in Crozier's head but he continues to do this unthinkable thing with blind belief in a perfectly-named man called 'Goodsir'".

And finally, something that I'm only now realising I've not thought in depth about before - the fact that Tozer is the only one we see being actively betrayed and bonked on the noggin! We don't know how the others ended up in chains, in all fairness. We don't know if they were bonked too, if they fought back, or if they went quietly, albeit likely at gunpoint. The fact that his coercion is the only one shown says something incredible about Tozer's power and about how Hickey views him at that point in time, I think. He's clearly aware, if not outright scared, of what Tozer is capable of, how unpredictable he could be, how rapidly he's coming to his senses and escaping Hickey's control. He's painfully aware of the fact that he can't let that happen, not now. Like, they could've just held a gun to his face! Lord knows they have enough guns and loyal, desperate men to wield them! But the merest idea that even that wouldn't be enough to coerce him is just making me lose my goddamn mind! The idea that you could hold a gun to Solomon Tozer's handsome goddamn face at that point and it still wouldn't be enough to get him to do something he doesn't want to do...!

#The Terror #The Terror AMC #S01E10 #We Are Gone #Harry Goodsir #Francis Crozier #Solomon Tozer #George Hodgson #John Diggle #I really want to do a read-through of all the scripts again now like I'm doing with the book and show #But I can't imagine AMC would appreciate it lol #I'm also thinking of a quote about Tozer from an earlier script #From his show-down with Little #'He's unafraid - making him frightening'#But I almost feel like it's the opposite in this situation #Tozer is very much afraid but that's what makes him frightening to Hickey who's always relied on Tozer's strength and apparent fearlessness #He's not being what Hickey needs him to be anymore #That's what makes him frightening #That's what makes him a threat that needs bonking #Observations #Random Observations #I swear I'm going to think and be more coherent about all this soon

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sleepnoises · 1 year

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forgot that plays could be bad and saw some local amateur theatre and guys. plays can be really bad

#this was a script problem almost entirely #this was a script for eighth graders. eighth graders would have done great #except for all the misogyny

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mysteriouslybluepirate · 7 months

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Can't send asks from my sideblog, but this is @chewing-the-drywall

I feel like much of s2 fell into Frenchie's "we put it in the box and then lock it and don't open it again" in the sense that it set up A LOT that I was intrigued about how they would address it, but it either never was mentioned again or was handled poorly.

Examples range from light, like how I wish we saw more of the crew interacting with each other in ways that built on their characters from S1, where in S2 they didn't feel any more developed, or even regressed. (Example, Fang used the word Fingies 2-3 times through S2, and it felt like they were using it almost as a shorthand for his character, rather than making him feel more real and multidimensional as a character.)

100% @chewing-the-drywall. When I first heard that line I had I was so excited for the story to prove Frenchie wrong. Or show how important it can be to put aside problems to stay alive in the moment. But in the end, this one line summarized how the season handled everyone, besides Stede and Ed. Below, is an in depth discussion on where this season decided to spend it's limited amount of time. Instead of focusing on the characters and plotlines they'd already established.

This season had so MANY ideas it wanted to touch on.

Izzy trying to deal with his unrequited love and opening up to a new way of living. The traumatized 'Revenge' crew trying to adapt to a softer way of life again. The abandoned crew learning how to help their traumatized friends. Introducing new characters like Zheng, Auntie, and Archie into our main group. Setting up a conflict to resolve in season three. Along the way, referencing Pirates of history like Ned Low, Mary Reed, and Anne Bonny.

Notice, I've said all this and we're not even at our romantic leads.

Which is fine. Stories are fluid things. As long as the story knows how to flow from our leads to our side characters. Which leads us to how I feel this show took a lot of time away from establishing our central crew-

[Warning- this will be a controversial opinion- I want to know what y'all think about this] Zheng/Oluwande. This seasons habit of retreading old plotlines and referencing scenes from S1.

What S1 did so well was paralleling the side stories with what was going on with Ed/Stede. Usually, highlighting how well Stede/Ed worked by showing how much Ed/Izzy DIDN'T work. Or general hijinks that tied into the plot (Oluwande and Frenchie on the French ship).

Season 2 chose to parallel our main story with what was going on between Zheng/Oluwande as a budding romance and Izzy's slow recovery. The reason Zheng/Oluwande scenes felt like a waste for me in that the story was JUST a retelling the story we watched from S1.

A frustrated first mate(Auntie), and a legendary captain(Zheng) fighting over the captain falling in love with an idiot(Olu). In season 2, much like every callback for me, it felt like it slowed down the plot by pulling us out of the story. Like...yeah, you did the thing again, do you want me to applaud you for it?

I LIKE Zheng and Oluwande as a couple! I like that Oluwande was debating leaving Stede and taking Jim and Archie with him. But at the same time, I didn't care about Zheng until episode 7 when she beat up Stede, showing that yes. She's not just some all powerful woman taken down by a mix of love(the crew in ep3) and thinking that she was above it all (ep 7). She's fast on her feet, smart, and willing to stab someone who gets in her way. She's her own person. But.

Every other scene that established her was about her romance, felt like we could have put Rhys and Taika in there. It didn't feel...unique. It's as if the show only knows 1 way to write a romance between a badass and a bumbling idiot. Again. Oluwande in season 1 wasn't dumb in the same way everyone else was. He was protective of Jim, a bit nervous overall, but he was the person the crew chose to lead them. The season just dumbed everyone down a bit and called it a day.

This comes to the larger issue. When we only have eight episodes I don't want to rewatch the exact same plot beats with different characters. Time spent here ends up taking away from other stories we could have told about trauma and growing as a family and other forms of growing as a family. We didn't need another romance plot line. Imagine taking this time instead to show Lucius reaching out to Pete AND the crew for help. Or Frenchie finally feeling safe enough to play his lute. Or Roach helping Fang get over his thing with cakes-you get my point.

The fact we took all the found family stuff from season one, and pushed it onto only Izzy in S2 means when he dies, all the found family shit falls away. His death makes us realize we've been ignoring the central family we were supposed to care about. Because in so many words, their trauma was ignored.

[I even theorize if Izzy was alive and sailed away with them. Showing how he was taken in and loved by his crew, the ending wouldn't feel so hollow. This crew doesn't feel like a caring family. The person who protected them for months died, wasn't mourned, and then they threw a wedding the same day. Not even a full day to mourn. The 'New Revenge' feels like a heartless crew of characters we barely recognize because they aren't a family like they were at the end of S1. More like coworkers who sometimes fall in love with eachother.]

Trauma, Timelines, and Tonal issues when jumping from Episodes 1-3 to Episodes 4-5.

When the crews meet up, the story chooses to focus on the fun plot. Ed and Stede recovering their relationship, only dipping back into that serious tone when Izzy or Lucius come on screen to 'make things sad' again. I don't think the transition from 'serious' to 'comedy' was handled well.

I don't have an official timeline of the events of season two. But from what I remember, everything happens within 2 weeks.

In episode 4, Stede ignored the vote of his crew- to let the man who was torturing half his 'FAMILY' for at least 80 days- back aboard. This rubbed me the wrong way, as it showed Stede being a selfish prick in a way that could seriously harm his crew. That's when I started to see how not adding a *single* time-skip mid-season would hurt S2.

Imagine if we had a one-week off-screen time skip between episodes 4 and 5.

Maybe it's implied that they stay in that town for a bit. Izzy would a bit more time to learn to move on his new leg and start to open up to those he already trusts. Include a scene of Izzy WITH the crew, maybe laughing about something with the old traumatized crew, even if it's just a 30-second opener. Imply that the traumatized crew would have more time to settle in with the family they miss. Show that yeah, the traumatized crew needs more time to heal. Imply at the start of the 'Ed apology' that Ed and Stede have had more time to talk their issues out.

THEN have Ed apologize. You can even keep the bullshit corporate to show that Ed still has to work for this.

Healing takes time. Setting a series over the span of two weeks after half your cast was tortured by your lead love interest? After five of your main crew thought they would sail off into a storm and die after months of stress and life threatening battles? Why did that shit get shoved to the side so quickly?

Framing episode 5 as the START of Ed making amends with the crew, only to drop the plot by episode 7? Not a smart move. Because let's be honest, 'poison into positivity' in episode 6, referring to the fact that they sold all of Ed's loot to pay for the party, ignores the sacrifices the crew made to live that long. (The death of Ivan, and intense trauma they all need to work through). In a way, Ed throwing this party was him asking the crew to start putting everything away in that imaginary box.

It's Ed retroactively letting himself say 'hey, that time I spent torturing my captives was worth it because we got something good out of it' while still ignoring his own guilt. Ed needed to take accountability for his actions. No more 'I took 'a' mans leg' bullshit. The reason his arc feels so unsatisfying is that the plot easily forgives him. Fuck. I hate what they did for Ed's arc, but that's not the point.

Overall.

My issue with this season is not that it chose to do these topics, it's that it didn't think about the implications of what they were bringing up. It didn't dare to think 'maybe it's fucked if we quickly brush off a trauma like this'. Again. I know we have to blame MAX for cutting off two episodes. But I don't think 2 additional episodes would fix a tone problem seen going from episodes 3-4.

Fucking hell. Each member of the revenge had the potential for their own arc, so it's baffling to see them all reduced to 'well meaning idiot' when they all felt so fleshed out in S1.

When izzy gives his speech about belonging, there's a reason the only image in the show of the crew all together was from S1.

At the end of the day, Season 2 didn't let our surviving side characters grow. This is a mean spirited bit on how I feel the writers see the their own characters.

Stede and Ed are our leads. They won't die, not in this genera. Their shitty actions will be forgiven because it's a comedy, and as long as it's joked about, it holds no weight. They won't die. They won't get fatally hurt. Their trauma will be taken seriously, but it's a 50/50 on if they'll talk about it before breaking up again. They will eventually get a happy ending, their trauma looked at head on, because duh.

Jim, Olu, Lucius, Pete? Characters who used to have defined personalities in S1, but haven't been defined much beyond their relationships with their partners? Whose trauma might be mentioned, but will quickly be 'resolved' in one scene? Shame. Seems like they're only useful as set dressing, But we might make you useful as interchangeable side characters to riff against. Oh, and you're in love! Isn't that cool!

Izzy? I'll just quote Jenkins here. "To have him become a father figure to Blackbeard, and on some level to the rest of the crew, and to see him become the heart of why we’re giving pirates the chance to stand for being able to live how you choose. In reality, they’re thieves and criminals, but what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy." So...Is Izzy a pirate and accepted into the Revenge family? Or is he still an outsider? Jenkins gave us a romcom but still defines Izzy's character as that of one stuck in a drama/tragedy. Point and laugh, because tonally these two things clash HARD and will make an audience lose trust in it's writers unless well established. Leading us to the entire issue we've pointed out of not letting your characters actions hold in dramatic weight in your story.

Frenchie, Wee John, Roach, and Fang- Ah. No love interests again...shit. Well. Background actors it is... for now. We'll see. But we need 2 more scenes of the couple breaking up, so MAYBE you'll get some backstory hinted at in dialogue. You all have 1 thing your good at, so that's easy enough to put you where you belong.

Buttons and Swede? Well. They're still alive!! Don't be sad, fans :) The actors just couldn't show up anymore. We don't want our silly happy queer pirate rom com to not end on a happy ending! (Closes the lid of the trash can where they're keep Con O'Neill a bit tighter, thanking God Con was silenced by a strike this entire season from social media)

Do you agree, or disagree? Leave any lingering thoughts down below!

I'd love to chat down below.

#I am absolutely screwing myself over spelling-wise by adding a poll but fuck it. That's what we do #Overall: Just because you can fit something into your story doesn't mean it needs to be shown on screen.#I wanted to add a section of all the scenes I'd cut/tighten to make my added scenes work but I don't think we're there yet as a fandom #I theorize that the reason they couldn't change the script and had to hack it up was due to them already having 10 episodes fully written #also I SWEAR I LIKE ZHENG- but the part of me that sees her as a hollow Ed 'narrative mirror' finds her a bit boring until episode 7 #I LOVED her ship and how she hated Stede. But that's just because I generally don't enjoy Stede when he's unquestioned #Stede on her ship was a pacified lamb slowly getting fattened for the slaughter. She would have turned on him SO EASILY. She almost did too #I semi-tolerated Ed/Stede's love story of not communicating and puppy love. Seeing it again but sped up didn't make me like it more #ofmd s2 #ofmd season 2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd critical #?#yeah I'll tag that just to be safe #izzy hands #edward teach #ofmd s2 finale #ofmd season 2 spoilers #ofmd s2 meta #ofmd s2 analysis #trauma

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