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traincat · 3 years

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I feel like I've read a ton, but I'm honestly still pretty new to comics rn. That being said... What is one more day? Ik we don't like it and it happened a while ago, but that's about it [,=

Time for Spider-Man History With Traincat: Highly Controversial Storylines! And that feeling is totally normal with comics with huge canons -- you can read a ton and still have some fairly big blindspots in your understanding of the total picture. That being said, this is kind of a big one, both in terms of Spider-Man history/canon and in terms of how Spider-Man fandom functions. I would say probably no other storyline has had quite as much impact on how the fandom views and interacts with the source material as One More Day/Brand New Day. It's been the Wild West out here ever since it happened. (Which was in 2007, so like, yes, fairly long ago, especially when you look at how Spider-Man canon has evolved since, but in the grand scheme of things, also kind of recent. One More Day is not old enough to rent a car.)

So when people talk about Spider-Man's One More Day, they're usually actually talking about two related arcs: One More Day and Brand New Day. For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to be covering both. For the sake of transparency, I am going to admit that I think One More Day, as a self-contained story, is good, actually. This is controversial! I admit that! But I stand by my stupid opinions on this blog, for some reason. I think One More Day when you examine it on its own, by which I mean you ignore the decade and a half worth of canon that came after it, as a Spider-Man story and as a PeterMJ-centric story holds up under scrutiny and that people who don't like it don't like complicated love stories and might actually throw their own mothers under buses. No offense to the OMD haters. Little bit of offense to the OMD haters. Brand New Day, which is the continuation of One More Day, on the other hand -- largely bad. Very largely bad.

But let's backtrack. One More Day is a four issue crossover storyline that takes place directly after Civil War, during which Iron Man and Captain America got divorced and divvied up the superhero community and Spider-Man made some startlingly bad decisions and made a fugitive out of himself and his family in a manner that got Aunt May shot, and Spider-Man: Back in Black (Amazing Spider-Man #539–543) which examines Peter's actions immediately after Aunt May is shot and ends with him humiliating the Kingpin in front of an entire prison. One More Day consists of Amazing Spider-Man #544 -> Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24 -> Sensational Spider-Man v2 #41 -> Amazing Spider-Man #545. In One More Day, Aunt May is dying, all of Peter's efforts to save her have thus far failed, and, consumed by guilt, he is rapidly running out of time. Approached by Mephisto, a literal demon from hell, Peter is offered a deal: Aunt May will live -- and Peter's identity, which was previously revealed to the world at large during Civil War, will once again be hidden from the memories of all but a select few -- if Peter trades him his marriage to Mary Jane. Peter and Mary Jane struggle with this, but eventually both agree to the deal. The clock strikes twelve, the deal is done, and Peter and Mary Jane's marriage fades into history.

(ASM #545) A reasonably simple premise for a story that caused so many problems -- most, I would argue, not actually the original story's fault. So obviously, this was an unpopular move -- Peter and Mary Jane had for a long time been a fan favorite Marvel couple, and in a fictional universe where most relationships are doomed as soon as they begin, the enduring Spider-Marriage was sacred ground. And then, with a snap of its fingers, it was gone: Peter wakes up in Aunt May's house, no longer married, with Mary Jane out of the picture. (She would not return to the book on any sort of consistent basis for over 50 issues.) In the wake of One More Day began Brand New Day, which is basically what it sounds like: a promised "brand new day" of "exciting" Spider-Man content and a publishing schedule where Amazing Spider-Man came out three times a month. (Which sounds good on paper but I think in practice caused more problems than it created good storylines.) Peter, newly single again, had new love interests! And also Harry Osborn was alive again for some reason! I generally like Harry's post-BND stories so that part's fine with me.

But overall? Brand New Day is a mess. It knows it wants to tread new and exciting ground with Peter -- tell new stories! ensnare new readers! make them fork out for a book three times a month. -- but it doesn't know what those stories should be. Readers who were invested in Peter and Mary Jane's relationship -- a major facet of Spider-Man comics for decades at that point -- felt rightfully betrayed that the marriage could be so easily traded in and that Mary Jane herself, perhaps the second most important figure in Spider-Man comics after Peter, could be tossed aside. From a personal point of view, I think Brand New Day fails in large part because it abandons what has always made Spider-Man such a compelling series, and that's the mix of Peter's personal life with his vigilante life. BND sees Peter with new friends, new jobs, new love interests, etc -- it is very much a brand new day! But it isn't a better day compared to the stories that came before it. I do like some post-BND stories, especially American Son (ASM #595-599) and Grim Hunt (ASM #634-637), but compared to pre-BND where I think the majority of canon is good, it's a very lacking body of work that is hurt by the way it divorced itself from the PeterMJ marriage as Spider-Man's central relationship.

"But Traincat, I thought you said you liked One More Day?" Yeaaaaah. I do. This is why I keep saying I like One More Day on its own merits, and not on the merits of the stories it opened the doors for. I like a good romantic tragedy in fiction, and the way Peter and Mary Jane's final scene in One More Day plays out is beautiful. I like the idea of Peter caught in this impossible situation, being asked to choose between two women he loves more than his own life. A really common criticism I see leveled against One More Day is that Peter should have chosen his relationship with Mary Jane over May's life, which is -- okay, I think it's weird that people keep insisting on this, not in the least because by asking Peter to sacrifice his aunt's life they're essentially demanding he commit a callous, out of character act in order to further his own interests. It's also weird because the thing is, Peter already chose Mary Jane over May -- that's what gets them into this situation. It's literally in the scene where May is shot:

(ASM #538) When the gun goes off, Peter's spider-sense kicks in, and he covers Mary Jane, leaving May in the path of the bullet. He does choose Mary Jane over May, regardless of whether he realized what he was doing. And that's why he can't make that choice a second time. His actions in One More Day do make sense for him as a character, whether or not any individual reader likes them, and Mary Jane's actions make sense, too -- after all, she's the one who ultimately tells Mephisto that they agree to the deal when Peter can't bring himself to voice it.

A lot of people also like to nitpick One More Day by going, well, why could (x) or (y) with life saving powers save Aunt May which is like -- yeah, I guess, but if we're going to ask that about this specific comic book near death setup, you kind of have to do it with every single one, and I'm not going to stake every single moment of comic book drama on whether or not that gold kid from the X-Men was busy at the time. Comics are soap operas in flimsy paper form: serialized longform storytelling that relies heavily on melodrama. Sometimes you have to go with things. Sometimes you sell your marriage to the devil. Stuff happens. That in and of itself doesn't make One More Day a bad story -- and while some people blame the Spider-Marriage's dissolution entirely on One More Day, I think that's a little shortsighted when you look at the history of Spider-Man since the turn of the century. It's clear -- and Marvel themselves have been perhaps a little too open about this -- that Marvel in the past few decades has had trouble with the direction they want to take Spider-Man. They WANTED Spider-Man to appeal to a distinctly youthful audience that they didn't think they were actually reaching -- understandable, considering that Marvel nearly went bankrupt around 2000 and was saved by Ultimate Spider-Man, an out of main continuity series which retold Spider-Man from the beginning and focused heavily on Peter as a teen -- but the problem was Spider-Man in the main continuity was at that point in canon a happily married man who was pushing the dreaded 30 whether or not they wanted to admit that. This is also why Marvel has continually pivoted away from Spider-Man having kids, because they feared that making him a dad would age him too much and make him unrelatable to their coveted audience of Teens. (This is also why almost every new Spider-Man property, especially the live action movies, perpetually stick him back into high school, despite that occupying a very small slice of 616 canon.) So around the year 2000, they started trying things in relation to the Spider-Marriage, which was viewed as a major problem -- after all, what's more adult than being married and liking your wife. First, they had Mary Jane presumed dead. Then, they had Mary Jane and Peter separate. Then, when Mary Jane and Peter had only recently gotten back together, One More Day struck. If One More Day specifically hadn't gone the way it had, it's pretty clear that the Spider-Marriage was going to go one way or another -- it's a little bit of a shame it happened when it did, because OMD is the end of J Michael Straczynski's run, and JMS wrote a really beautiful Peter and MJ relationship. But Marvel as a company and especially editor in chief at the time Joe Quesada viewed Peter and Mary Jane's relationship as a major problem in how they wanted to portray Spider-Man and thought that striking the relationship from the books would allow them more freedom in their portrayal of him as younger and more relatable to their Desired Audience of people who I guess really wanted to see Peter sleep with characters who weren't Mary Jane.

(ASM #546. Younger! Fresher! Less attached! Kissing random women in the club!)

The problem with One More Day has always been in the follow through -- from the content of Brand New Day to the pacing of events to the fact that Marvel withheld key information for such a long time that it allowed misinformation to thrive. After all, what does it MEAN to trade Peter and Mary Jane's marriage to the devil? It altered the events of canon in Peter and the majority of other characters' memories so that the marriage didn't exist, but it left people wondering -- did the relationship as they remembered it existed? How much of Spider-Man canon was altered? And the answers didn't come for over 100 issues of Amazing Spider-Man. One Moment In Time or OMIT (Amazing Spider-Man #638-641), which revealed that while Peter and Mary Jane never got married in the altered canon they did continue their long committed relationship up until just after Civil War, was published in 2010, so essentially readers were hung out to dry without answers for three years. That's a long time to string people along, but not as long as it took Marvel to confirm that the popular fan theory that Mary Jane retained her memories of the original timeline as part of her own deal with Mephisto was also true, which happened this year. I would say, at least from my perspective, a lot of the frustration doesn't come from the individual One More Day storyline so much as how Marvel has continually dragged out the aftermath, using the promise of a Spider-Marriage return to keep fans on the hook. Which is why One More Day continually comes up in discussion of current Spider-Man, because Spencer's run has relied very heavily on imagery from that period with a serious question of whether or not there actually was going to be payoff, something which is still up in the air.

This has been Spider-Man History With Traincat, brought to you by anonymice like you.

#traincat talks comics #long post #*replies

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comic-bucky · 4 years

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Golden Age

Captain America Comics (1941) #1-78

All-Winners Comics (1941) #1-21

Young Allies Comics (1941) #1-20

USA Comics (1941) #6-17

Kid Komics (1943) #2-10

All-Select (1943) #1-10

Complete Comics (1944) #2

Mystic Comics (1944) #4

Young Men (1950) #24

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Silver Age

The Avengers (1963) #4, #56, #106-107, #277, #387, Annual #16

Sgt. Fury (1963) #13

Tales of Suspense (1964) #63-71, #75, #82, #95

Captain America v1 (1968) #105, #107, #109, #112, #121, #128, #131-132, #139, #162, #176, #215, #219-220, #227, #253, #255-157, #261, #264, #281, #294, #297-299, #326, #349-350, #372, #383-384, #423, #437, #441, #445, #447-448

Captain America Annual (1970) #1, #6, #9, #13

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Bronze Age

The Invaders (1975) #1-31, #38-39, Annual #1

Captain America's Bicentennial Battles (1976)

Marvel Premiere (1972) #29-30

What If..? (1977) #1, #4, #5

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Modern Age

What If..? v2 (1989) #28, #105, #200

Adventures of Captain America (1991) #1-4

Captain America: Medusa Effect (1994)

War Machine (1994) #15-17

Batman/Captain America (1996)

Deadpool v1 (1997) #0, #61

Captain America/Citizen V (1998)

Captain America: Sentinel Of Liberty (1998) #7, #12

Fantastic Four (1998) #569, #584, #588

Domination Factor: Avengers (1999) #2.4, #3.6

Earth X (1999) #0-1, #4, #10

Universe X (2000) #9, #X

Universe X Special: Cap (2001) #1

Paradise X (2002) #0-1

Captain America v3 (1998) #1, #12, #25, #32, #39, #48, #50, Annual 2001

Captain America/Nick Fury: The Otherworld War (2001)

The Ultimates v1 (2002) #1, #3, #7

The Ultimates v2 (2005) #1, #8

Ultimate Avengers (2009) #2, #6

The New Invaders (2004) #2

Captain America v4 (2002) #10, #17, #19-20, #26

Captain America: 65th Anniversary Special (2006) #1

Captain America Comics 70th Anniversary Special (2009) #1

Captain America Comics 70th Anniversary Special (2011) #1

Cable & Deadpool (2004) #45

Captain America v5 (2005) #1-50

Winter Soldier: Winter Kills (2007)

Young Avengers Presents (2008) #1

Punisher War Journal (2007) #11

Fallen Son: Wolverine (2007)

Wolverine: Origins (2006) #15-20, #23, #25, #30

Civil War: Battle Damage Report (2007) #1

Iron Man/Captain America: Casualties of War (2007) #1

Secret Invasion (2008) #4, #6-8

What If? Secret Invasion (2010) #1

Avengers/Invaders (2008) #1-12

House of M: Civil War (2008) #3-4

What If? House Of M (2009) #1

Mythos: Captain America (2008) #1

Invincible Iron Man v1 (2008) #17, #20-22, #501

Incredible Hulk v2 (2009) #601, #607, #609

Nomad: Girl Without a World (2009) #1, #4

Ms. Marvel v2 (2006) #41-42

Ms. Marvel: War of the Marvels (2009) #1

Agents of Atlas (2009) #3-5

New Avengers (2009) #48-64, Finale

The Amazing Spider-Man v1 (2009) #600-601, #637, #648, #661

Wolverine (2003) #38-40, #72-74

Young Allies: 70th Anniversary Special (2009)

The Marvels Project (2009) #7-8

Avengers: The Initiative (2007) #19, #34-35

Dark Reign: The List - Avengers (2009) #1

Captain America v1 (2009) #600-619

Captain America: Reborn (2009) #1-6

Captain America: Who Will Wield The Shield? (2010)

Siege (2010) #2-4

Siege: Captain America (2010) #1

Steve Rogers: Super Soldier (2010) #1

Dark Wolverine (2009) #84

Avengers v4 (2010) #1-7, #10, #12.1, #16

Avengers vs. Pet Avengers (2010) #1-4

I am An Avenger (2010) #2, #4-5

Free Comic Book Day: Avengers (2009) #1

AAFES 7th Edition (2009) #7

AAFES 9th Edition (2010) #9

Wolverine: Weapon X (2010) #12-15

Avengers vs. Atlas (2010) #1, #4

Dark Avengers Annual (2010) #1

Hawkeye & Mockingbird (2010) #1

Age of Heroes (2010) #1

Invaders Now! (2010) #1-5

World War Hulks (2010) #1

World War Hulks: Captain America vs Wolverine (2010) #1-2

Captain America The 1940s Newspaper Strip (2010) #1-3

Captain America: Forever Allies (2010) #1-4

Black Panther/Captain America: Flags of Our Fathers (2010) #4

Black Widow: Deadly Origin (2010) #1-4

Black Widow v4 (2010) #1-6

Chaos War (2010) #1, #5

Chaos War: Dead Avengers (2011) #1, #3

Heroes for Hire v3 (2011) #9-10

Fear Itself (2011) #3-4

Fear Itself: Captain America (2011) #7.1

Fear Itself: The Worthy (2011) #1

All-Winners Squad: Band of Heroes (2011) #1-5

Captain America and Falcon (2011) #1

Captain America: A Little Help (2011) #1

Captain America Corps (2011) #1-5

Captain America and Bucky (2011) #620-624

Captain America: Hail Hydra (2011) #1-2, #5

Captain America v6 (2011) #1-2, #19

The Winter Soldier (2012) #1-19

Marvel Zombies Destroy (2012) #1-5

Secret Avengers v1 (2010) #15

Secret Avengers v2 (2013) #9, #16

Captain America v7 (2013) #6, #13, #20

Winter Soldier: The Bitter March (2014) #1-5

Marvel 75th Anniversary Celebration (2014) #1

All-New Marvel Now! Point One (2014) #1

All-New Invaders (2014) #1-15

Original Sin (2014) #1-8

Bucky Barnes: The Winter Soldier (2014) #1-11

Black Widow v5 (2014) #8, #12, #15, #17-18

Planet Hulk (2015) #1-5

Runaways v4 (2015) #1-4

1602 Witch Hunter Angela (2015) #1

1872 (2015) #1-2

Red Skull (2015) #1-2

Civil War (2015) #1-4

Captain America: White (2008) #0-5

Captain America: Sam Wilson (2015) #7-8

Loki: Agent of Asgard (2014) #12

A-Force v1 (2015) #5

POP Secret Avengers: A Tussle in Time (2016)

Thunderbolts (2016) #1-12

Captain America: Steve Rogers (2016) #1-2, #4, #11-13, #16, #18

All-New, All-Different Avengers (2015) #8-9

Avengers Standoff: Welcome to Pleasant Hill (2016) #1

Avengers Standoff: Assault On Pleasant Hill Alpha (2016) #1

Avengers Standoff: Assault On Pleasant Hill Omega (2016) #1

Black Widow v6 (2016) #9-10

Captain Marvel v6 (2016) #8

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (2016) #8

A Year of Marvels: July Infinite Comic (2016) #1

Generations: Sam Wilson: Captain America & Steve Rogers: Captain America (2017) #1

Secret Empire (2017) #0, #2, #4-5, #8-10

Secret Empire: Brave New World (2017) #1-2, #4-5

Secret Empire Omega (2017) #1

Tales of Suspense v2 (2017) #100-104

Captain America v8 (2017) #25, #695, #701

Captain America v9 (2018) #1, #5-7, #12, #19-21

The Punisher v8 (2016) #227-228

The Punisher v9 (2018) #5

Old Man Hawkeye (2018) #6, #8

The Unstoppable Wasp (2018) #7-10

Rise of the Black Panther (2018) #3

Captain America Annual (2018) #1

Winter Soldier (2018) #1-5

Invaders (2019) #1-12

War of the Realms (2019) #3-5

War of the Realms - Strikeforce: The War Avengers (2019) #1

Strikeforce (2019) #1-9

Web of Black Widow (2019) #2, #5

Deadpool v5 (2018) #13

Gwenpool Strikes Back (2019) #3

Captain Marvel v8 (2019) #6

Uncanny X-Men (2019) #11

Marvel Comics (2019) #1000-1001

Marvel Comics Presents (2019) #7

History of the Marvel Universe (2019) #2, #5

Avengers: Save Like A Hero (2019) #1

Captain America & The Invaders: Bahamas Triangle (2019) #1

Spider-Woman v6 (2020) #1

Amazing Spider-Man (2020) #38

Ruins of Ravencroft: Dracula (2020) #1

Hawkeye: Freefall (2020) #1, #4

Falcon & Winter Soldier (2020) #1-5

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Other Bucky reading guides *work in progress*

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updated 12/08/20

#reading guide #bucky barnes #winter soldier #comic bucky #some of them are cameos but they are great #the other guides are coming one of these days

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 4 years

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I will respond to this. But in future I’m asking you and others not to send me things like this please.

“This month, Marvel Comics relaunched Amazing Spider-Man with a Nick Spencer as head writer, marking the end of Dan Slott's long run with the title and an end of the "Brand New Day" era of Spider-History.”

The problems start here. BND ended before Slott’s solo run began.

“ Spencer's run begins with a bit of a bang.

Well, about as much of a bang as you get from kissing the same person you've known for 50 years.”

This is a reductive and childish mentality towards romance and sex. It prioritizes the novelty and excitement of ‘new love’ (which is scientifically guaranteed to last like 2 years tops) over the deeper and ultimately more potent emotions attached to proper love, which in truth is kind of like friendship on steroids.

In this specific case it’s especially stupid as, putting aside fan reactions, the fact that Peter and Mj were back together after 10+ years was OBVIOUSLY going to be a shocking moment. A ‘bang’ if you will. This is like saying it wasn’t a moment of audience interest whenever Ross and Rachel seemingly got back together or when Monica and Chandler initially got together. They too had known one another for a long time, a roughly equivalent time for their character and Peter and MJ in-universe.

“This has come after Peter and Mary Jane have been apart for about a decade. This recent "surprise" get-back-to-gether is the same sort of "exciting development" that happens eventually after Marvel breaks a couple up, or kills someone in one of their books (See the Hulk, Jean Grey, Peter Parker during Superior Spider-Man, etc. etc. etc.) Peter and Mary Jane getting back together (apparently) is sort of a big deal.”

Yes. Because fans WANTED them to be back together.

Fans aren’t in this for the roller coaster of novelty. They don’t want Spidey or Superman to be with anyone OTHER than MJ or Lois. By the same token the majority do not want anyone other than Luthor or Joker to be Superman or Batman’s archenemies.

“See, in 2007 Marvel Comics made the bold decision to end the marriage between Spider-Man and his longtime wife, Mary Jane Watson.”

Watson Parker

It wasn’t bold it was asinine

How bold is it when it was the third such attempt to do that? “At the time, fans lost their shit.” And they are STILL angry about it. “You can't really blame them because the deed was done in the most asinine way. For some reason, divorce was out of the question. The alternative was somehow more awful. After Peter's Aunt May got shot in the bo-bo at the end of Civil War, Spider-Man literally made a deal with the devil to save her life.” WTF is a bo-bo? “What did this change exactly? Well, the events of Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21 didn't end in a marriage. So everything that happened after was still the same except Peter amd MJ were a common-law couple. Or something.” And MJ was never pregnant, and all the shit specifically related to their wedding rings, dress, photos, anniversary couldn’t have happened and given how to them marriage wasn’t a piece of paper then this would have massive ramifications for their relationship quite a part from the fact there would now be a massive sore spot in their relationship. “Anyway, like I said, a lot of longtime fans hated it.” No. MOST longtime fans hated it. And most SHORT time fans also hated it. And even many newer fans who jumped on-board after it hated it too. “You know, the audience they weren't trying to appeal to anymore.” Which was idiotic. You don’t try to gain a new audience by throwing away your old one. You try to retain the old audience and bring new people into the fold at the same time. Noticeably this happened in the 1990s. This failed to happen after OMD and it failed to happen with the Nu52 which was the OMD for the whole DC universe. The latter failed so badly they reverse rebooted many characters, Superman chief among them. Superman’s financial and critical reception increased when they brought back the OLD Superman who was married (and now a father to boot) and used him to replace the younger, single and hip Superman most people disliked. The OLD fans returned. Shockingly appealing to the old AND new fans is possible. “Still, they came up with a storyline that would be relatable to younger readers, and still be relevant to longtime readers as well”

It wasn’t a storyline it was an era

No. It absolutely wasn’t relatable or relevant to younger readers. I was 16-19 when BND was running. I was directly the demographic they were trying to appeal to. Let me tell you straight. Those stories were not relatable. At all. They weren’t relevant. At all. The PS4 game’s take? Now that shit was reltable but noticeably that version only takes plot concept from BND. The characterization of Peter is far more in line with his pre-OMD self and didn’t represent a regression of the character

Thousands of people became Spider-Man fans reading the marriage era Spidey comics. If it was so unrelatable how is that possible?

The stories were not relevant to the older audience at all because the whole purpose of BND was to basically ignore 90% of Spider-Man history between 1987-2007. And more importantly even the characteriation before then that they were trying to invoke was done incorrectly. The Spidey of BND was a systemically mischaracterizion of Spider-Man even if yu ignored OMD “The fiscal reasoning made sense, there were Spider-Man films that were out roping in a new generation kids who wouldn't relate to a married Spider-Man.”

There was a 5 season long TV show before those movies aimed directly at children. Kids got into Spidey through that and we didn’t care he was married. In fact he was married on the show

To 90s/2000s teens and tweens the struggles of Spidey in the 1994 cartoon and Raimi movies were not all that relatable. The male members of the cartoon audience were too young to be interested in romance and all the demographics were unlikely to relate to Peter’s financial struggles as they were too young to work. Even if they weren’t too young to work they wouldn’t have been the breadwinner of the household the way they might’ve been in the 1960s. By the 1990s and 2000s times had changed

Peter had become a MAN like halfway through the first Raimi movie and that wasn’t even the most popular or successful one. Spider-man 2, where Peter was distinctly an adult and grappling with adult problems, was

Kids have been unlikely to relate to Batman. In fact as times have changed it’s evident they infinitely prefer Batman to Robin, the character actually created specifically for them to relate to. Batman is at least as popular as Spider-Man, if not moreso

The MCU has made Iron Man and Black Panther (who kids could never truly relate to) and Captain America (whom few people regardless of age could ever relate to as he is almost a moral paragon) fan favourite characters. CLEARLY relatability is at best highly subjective and at worst not essential to making a character appealing

BND occurred after Spider-Man 3 where Peter wanted to marry Mary Jane. If anything the JMS era of Spidey where he was married to the main love interest from the movies and where Aunt May knew who he was would’ve been MORE synergetic with the movies of the time than what BND was “Also, times have changed. Fans freaked out that Spider-Man was no longer married and back to living at Aunt May's home? At the time Peter Parker was in his late 20s (Marvel Time).” No, at the time he was 30 years old. “If this is basically you in 2018, you had no reason to bitch about Brand New Day.” Get fucked. Fans had EVERY reason to bitch about BND back then AND now too. Putting aside how we got there (which would be reason enough) the stories themselves were objectively deplorable! “Looking back at the storyline 10 years after the fact,” It’s not a storyline. It was an era. “it's hard to understand what the big deal was.” It’s hard to understand mischaracterization, illogic, continuity contradictions, sexism, racism, juvenile writing, character deconstruction, borderline gaslighting of the fans, talking down to the audience, price gouging, inconsistent writing and art and just generally bad storytelling? “Because I secretly hate myself, I decided to read every Spider-Man comic published.” I somehow doubt that. Even if it’s true there is a massive difference between reading a story and understanding it. Dan Slott READ a lot of Spider-Man. He knew a lot of Spider-Facts. But he clearly never understood the character. He might KNOW MJ shut that door in ASM #122. But he absolutely doesn’t grasp it’s deeper meaning. “I started about a year ago, and I'm just hitting stories published in 2007. In retrospect, there are a lot of shitty Spider-Man stories. Some of them weren't as bad as they were made out to be (The Clone Saga, being one of them, surprisingly) One thing about the Peter/MJ marriage (which ran from 1987 to 2007) is you quickly realize their marriage was horrible.” Sure. If you are a bad literary analyst, sexist, crap at contextualization and apply a blunt criteria instead of nuance. If you don’t you get that there were ups and downs with the writing as would be expected of almost anything written across 20 years by multiple writers. “Especially for Mary Jane.” Oh cool, sexist it is then. “It wasn't good, it was a burden to telling good stories.” Kraven’s Last Hunt Sensational Spider-Man Annual 2007 Spider-Man Unlimited v3 #2 Story 2 Parallel Lives Anything by JMS involving MJ Revelations Spec #200 Spec #241-245 Sensational v2 #32 Marvel Knights: Spider-man #1-12 And many other stories I could name say otherwise genius. “This is because the writers involved at the time didn't seem to understand how a marriage works.”

JMS clearly did

DeMatteis clearly did

DeFalco clearly did

Sacasa clearly did

Peter David clearly did

Mark Millar clearly did

Even Bendis clearly did

Maybe it’s not how YOUR marriage works. But everyon’es marriage is a different “The marriage was, at best, an excuse for an instant damsel in distress situation,” Remember how the marriage was used as an instant damsel-in-distress situation in KLH? Remember how that was ALL it amounted to in the Eisner nominated Sensational Spider-Man Annual 2007? Remember how badly MJ was in need of rescuing in the Jonathan Caesar storyline? “or at worse a reason for Peter Parker to go on about how "lucky" he was to be married to a model/actress. Like Mary Jane was nothing more than a trophy to pride himself because he was such a fucking loser in high school.” Yes. Peter never argued with MJ. Peter never confided his concerns with MJ. MJ never alleviated his guilt. MJ never grew as a person from her horrible childhood issues through being married with Peter. MJ didn’t become more self-sacrificing due to Peter. Peter was never pushed to become more powerful by thoughts of his believed wife. They never helped one another through traumatic situations. “What I really want to stress here is, Peter and Mary Jane's marrage was awful.” Nah fam. YOUR analytical skills are awful. “Worst. Idea. Ever.” Nah fam. You writing this was the worst idea ever. Scratch that, me subjecting myself to this shit was the worst idea ever. “Can't take my word for it? Here are some reasons why: Mary Jane Had to Swat Away So Many Dicks” An attractive woman with a very public profile draws unwanted attention? How unrealistic! It’s terrible that such a thing would never happen in real life, real life being the baked into the core concept of Spider-Man. Why if it did it’d be a organic way to give MJ subplots and conflicts of her own to deal with that could impact upon Peter’s life by extension or something. “Almost from the start, Mary Jane had to fend off other men who were obsessed with her and didn't give a shit that she was married. That's not necessarily Peter's fault, but it really says a lot of the opinion towards female characters in comics at the time.” …how…? This happens in real life…A LOT! And what has ‘Peter’s fault’ got to do with this? It’s not even a statement that warrants a ‘necessarily’. What? If Peter was more ‘Alpha’ other men would know not to try it on with ‘his woman’ or something? Also, let’s properly contextualize things okay. Between 1987-2007 MJ was stalked by like 5 people. That’s once every 4 years if you average it out but 3/5 of them occurred in Michelinie’s run alone which is not the be all or end all of the marriage. Another one was for a single issue and the final one was actually obsessed with Peter and used MJ to get to him. I ain’t saying it didn’t get old but this guy is making it out to be something that was an annual event. “Sure, the idea of someone stalking an actress/model isn't outlandish, and a sad fact of the celebrity-driven reality we live in.” YOU DON’T SAY! And it doesn’t just apply to actresses or models btw. “However, the number of times this was used as a plot got a bit out of hand.” I agree. But 5 times across 20 years, when there was a 5 year gap between the third and fourth instances and a 5 year gap between the fourth and final instance (lasting for 1 issue and wasn’t even the main plot) is not reflective of anything. “That said because it's a Spider-Man comic book they couldn't just settle on a dumpy guy wearing sticky jogging pants. They had to kick it up a notch. With horrific implications for poor Mary Jane.” …yeeeeeeeeeeah? And? Stalkers are horrible. You want there to be tension and conflict so the threat of violence is absolutely justifiable. FFS, kraven the Hunter buried Spider-Man alive and Venom threatened to eat parts of him. And VENOM was Spidey’s stalker! “Jonathon Caesar An obsession so cliche, I'm surprised that nobody made a joke about his knife compensating for having a small dick.” Except circa 1989 it wasn’t cliché. At least not as far as a Spidey comic was concerned. If we are opening this up to ALL media then sure but then by that logic Gwen’s death and countless other stories would also be cliché wouldn’t they. “The first scum bag to enter Mary Jane's married life was Jonathon Caesar. He was a wealthy man with a lot of connections.” …Almost like Harvey Weinstein or something… “He helped Mary Jane get into the Bedford Towers condominium (which Caesar owned). His motivation? To kidnap a married woman and force her to live in a specially made trap room until she agreed to marry him. Spider-Man didn't even save the day! Mary Jane broke free on her own and the wall-crawler showed up in time to do the cleanup.” Holy shit. If anyone ever needed proof this doofus’s analytical skills weren’t there this is it. The Jonathan Caesar storyline was designed to be a subversion of the damsel-in-distress trope. The whole fucking POINT was that MJ saved herself instead of Spidey saving her! Jesus Christ how do you miss that. Not to mention how do you complain Caesar as a villain is cliché but then ALSO complain that the damsel-in-distress cliché wasn’t adhered to. “Caesar went to jail but he used his influence to ruin her modeling career and get her evicted from their home.” *coughWeinsteincough* “Not only that, but MJ's money got tied up in a lengthy legal battle, with no apparent end in sight. In fact the money mentioned here is never talked about again.” Er…yes it is. MJ ultimately settles in ASM #333 wiping out her savings. I’d have thought someone who read every Spider-Man comic book would have known that. “Caesar eventually got out of jail and continued to stalk Mary Jane.” Again, clearly hasn’t read every Spider-Man comic book and/or is a shitty analyst. Yes Caesar did this but he did this BEFORE MJ engaged him in a legal battle. “Her husband didn't do squat to stop it.” What was he supposed to do? Caesar was out legally and Peter couldn’t just kill or assault the guy. Threatening him would likely have helped Caesar’s legal case further, especially due to the public knowing about the association between Peter and Spidey. Touching Caesar would be like trying to get the Kingpin locked up. It’s extremely difficult for someone that rich and powerful. “He was too busy playing Spider-Man to help his own wife.” No. He was busy saving the lives of innocent people. He wasn’t doing this for fun, he is Spidey for the greater good. MJ knows that. MJ knew that she could ask Peter for help if she needed it and he’d come running. She made it clear she could handle it and like a good husband he respected her decision. It wasn’t like she was trying to reach him for help and he was distracted or actively ignored her. But you know, those disingenuous pieces of misinformation aren’t going to write themselves. Also the stories are a little ambiguous about this but there is a possible implication that MJ was keeping Peter somewhat in the dark about Caesar’s activities. “The only person who was interested in Mary Jane's safety was Officer Hal Goldman, who ended up shooting Caesar dead. Was Hal a super-cop detective that ate serial stalkers for lunch? Note really, see the thing about Hal.... Hal Goldman Let's follow up this sexist scene with the woman regretting her career choices. Very progressive.”

This bozo shouldn’t be lecturing people on what is and isn’t sexist

FFS OF COURSE someone in MJ’s position would be questioning her career choices. She’s just been stalked by 2 lunatics. But noticeably she doesn’t stop being an actress/model after this. The moment was a dash of comedy given the situation and nothing more. But you wouldn’t know that given how this guy is not bothering to use context or anything

How the Hell is MJ macing a stalker and then knocking him out sexist? “Hal Goldman wasn't actually a police officer. He was just a fat NYPD civilian desk clerk with a terrible bowl cut who had an unhealthy obsession with Mary Jane when she starred in a soap opera called "Secret Hospital". Although he was "investigating" Jonathan Ceasar's attempts to ruin Mary Jane's life again, he was also obsessed with protecting her from everyone who slighted her. He ran over an old woman who slapped MJ in the face, dropped a stage light on her director's head and tried to clobber Peter with a piece of concrete. However, this is an accurate depiction of how fan-boys react to things.” Remember how over 50% of fanboys threatened or actually inflicted violence upon people because of OMD? Neither do I. “When he guns down Caesar he professes his undying love to Mary Jane and admits to committing all the above crimes. Again, Peter is nowhere around,” Of course he’s nowhere around. Peter doesn’t constantly monitor MJ all day every day. You know…like a stalker. Fuck real life husbands don’t do this. Moreover if we bother to check the issue in question (ASM #339) some interesting details are presented to us. For starters MJ was only endangered due to trickery and bad luck. Caesar forced a co-star of MJ’s to handwrite a note and sign it asking for her to meet him at the set of Secret Hospital. Between the set being a relatively safe environment and the note checking out as legitimate due to the handwriting and signature, MJ had no reason to be suspicious. Peter absolutely intended to go with MJ but earlier that day had been doused with a chemical by the Sinister Six, the effects of which he was uncertain about. He got a call regarding the Six’s activities and the chemical so logically that would take priority over Mj merely meeting a co-star. MJ chose not to delay the meeting until Peter was available and go herself. Again neither she nor Peter had any reason to suspect foul play. So Peter’s absence was never due to neglect. It wasn’t even due to putting the duties of Spider-man before the needs of his wife. As far as either of them knew there was no danger. So again, distorting the facts. Classy. “so when she rejects him Officer Bowl Cut decides to do the old "if I can't have you, nobody will!" Routine. However, she sprayed him in the eyes with hairspray and clobbered him with a purse. You know just as you'd expect a strong female character to do.” Yes. That is exactly what I expect a female, or indeed any character, to do in that situation. Mary Jane had no real weapons. The story even specified that MJ tried to get a handgun but was still waiting on it. So she improvised and used whatever resources she had to hand. This is routine for Mary Jane both during and before the marriage. Using hairspray and a handbag, which are not obvious weapons but can nevertheless be repurposed for offence, was a perfectly legitimate technique for both the character and writer to employ. It’s almost like it makes her look smart, tough and resourceful for being able to think on her feet like that or something. Oh, and again. MJ is bad because she conforms to a cliché but is also bad because didn’t conform to the cliché of Spidey rescuing her which would’ve also been bad because the marriage is used to easily generate damsel-in-distress situations. This isn’t even a double standard it’s a TRIPLE standard. This jackoff has constructed his argument in such a way that Mary Jane/the marriage can NEVER win. “Jason Jerome This happened in 1990, consent hadn't been invented yet.”

Jason wasn’t a stalker strictly speaking

This storyline, bad as it was, was nevertheless handled very differently from the Jonathan Caesar arc because MJ at least was tempted to reciprocate feelings for Jason whilst she was repulsed by Caesar

YES. the concept of consent WASN’T very well taught back in the 1990s! What the hell is he point here? “Jason Jerome was an actor who thought he could seduce Mary Jane into having an affair with him. This came at a time when there were three monthly Spider-Man titles. This made for one busy wall-crawler. On top of fighting villains, he was also promoting a book and traveling the globe as a reporter. Needless to say, MJ was feeling more than a little neglected. This made Mary Jane susceptible to Jerome's advances. However, despite his best efforts, Mary Jane ended things before they had gone too far. To do so, she invited Jason to her apartment under the pretence of sex. Instead of getting balls deep, Jason Jerome found himself in a room plastered with photos of Peter and Mary Jane together, like inviting an obsessed man into your home without telling anyone is a smart idea.” Jason was not obsessed. He viewed MJ as a ‘conquest’ and from her POV was not dangerous like Caesar or Hal. Also IIRC this occurred after the incident with Hal, which meant MJ would likely have owned a handgun by this point. Even if she didn’t, she defeated Hal and Caesar and his guards when she was unprepared and improvising on the fly. Here she has had hours to prep and it’s literally in her home. If she suspected Jason to be dangerous (which he was not and had given her no reason to believe so) she was in a great position to handle him. “All the lamps and hairspray in the world cannot possibly stop this potentially becoming a bad situation.” A rich and powerful lunatic with a knife and armed guards outside got their ass beaten by MJ whilst she was improvising…on their home turf. A less rich, less powerful, unarmed man with no displays of mental instability or violence comes to MJ’s home turf on his own. So yes, if she was so inclined MJ could 100% rig up a trap with hairspray and a lamp or a fucking gun if she had one. “If this backfires, let's just hope he's into this sort of thing.” A necrophilia joke? How tasteful. “The Stalker "I said, I'm bored with sort of scenario. Can you try and change this up a bit?"”

Jason Jerome wasn’t stalking MJ

Yes the stalker was lame. Also this occurred around 9-10 years later

You know there is more to this relationship than the occasions when MJ was stalked FFS “The most unoriginal character created by Howard Mackie during his run.” His run when he was possibly dealing with serious health issues. Classy. “The Stalker follows a long tradition of Marvel characters whose names are obvious: The Prowler prowls,” Except he doesn’t do much prowling. He flits between retirement and active costumed work. And he’s not exactly a stalker of the night like Batman when he’s out of retirement. “the Watcher watches, and the Shocker finger blasts people.” Does this guy know what ‘shocking’ means? Blasting people isn’t shocking them. Electrocuting people = shocking people. Vibrating them doesn’t = shocking them. “So obviously, the Stalker was a stalker. Specifically, he stalked Mary Jane. The guy went to some insane lengths. He set off bombs and killed people. The whole time this was happening Peter was busy going out as Spider-Man.” YES. THAT’S HIS FUCKING JOB! Also, for the majority of the time Mj was being stalked she had kept Peter in the dark about the guy. Shortly after he finally did learn the truth he seemingly died. For sure he was kept away from her whilst she was being made a target, but

The 1970s Clone Saga

Spec Annual 1988

Smoke and Mirrors

Web #125

Maximum Clonage

Clone Conspiracy

“Each time he seems to forget the fact that a lunatic had cloned his dead girlfriend every time.”

Horseshit.

He KNEW the truth in every encounter following the first one. He didn’t fall for it on the third-sixth occasions but shockingly seeing your dead loved one (who died right in front of you) walking around alive is going to emotionally hurt you and dreadge up old wounds and old feelings.

Gerry Conway in Spec Annual 1988 directly addresses this by having Peter acknowledge that intellectually he knows Gwen to merely be a clone but emotionally he still feels towards her the same way as though she were the real Gwen.

It’s almost like Conway was a good writer not a HACK like the OP and so knows that in matters of the heart a realistic human being might let their sense of logic fly out the window.

If ONLY there had been a global sensation of a movie released months prior to ASM v5 #1 which demonstrated this aptly.

“Every time it made Peter confused and dug up old feelings. Which, naturally, made Mary Jane doubt the strength of their relationship.”

That literally happened twice. And she briefly doubted before thinking otherwise or been shown otherwise.

“With this many clones of the dead girlfriend, you'd figure he would have gotten used to it.”

Yes if he was an emotionless automaton. Or written by someone who knows jack about human emotions...like the OP…

“Instead of going to a shrink to process these feelings,”

Thus risking the anonymity that protects himself and his loved ones.

“Peter usually fell for the various manipulations that typically came from these convoluted cloning schemes and hit whoever was responsible.”

OBVIOUSLY he hit whoever was responsible. They were super villains, he was going to bring them to justice no matter what

Again, he fell for it the first time. But ONLY the first time. He was aware Gwen was a clone in every other encounter and never played along. Many of those instances weren’t even villains pulling a scheme but a situation Peter happened to mix himself up in. Spec Annual #8 had nothing to do with him as the High Evolutionary wanted to apprehend Gwen for his own purposes. Web #125 involved him discovering Gwen’s clone in the suburbs but no villain had planned on him doing that

“That Time Illegitimate Kids Showed Up

Gwen Stacy was always portrayed as a saintly woman cut down in the prime of her life.”

Except for all those times she absolutely wasn’t prior to her death; that’s not even counting AUs.

Saint Gwendolyn I, Holy Virgin Martyr Princess was a revisionist invention fabricated after her death to make her death more tragic in hindsight. It’s a pack of lies that doesn’t deserve to be paid attention to.

“That was until JMS wrote a Gwen Stacy story that was entirely fucked up.”

No. It was only partially fucked up because

Gwen was obviously not pregnant

MJ and Gwen didn’t care about Gwen’s kids

“In it, Peter learns that Gwen had an affair with Norman Osborn (the Green Goblin, AKA the guy who later murdered her) and got knocked up.”

They didn’t have an affair.

People seem to be misinformed on the definition of what the word ‘affair’ means. They use it as though it means ‘being unfaithful to your partner’. That is not the meaning of the term. An EXTRAMARITAL affair can mean that but a regular romantic/sexual affair doesn’t inherently mean there is any unfaithfulness occurring.

But it DOES have to be ongoing to some extent.

Gwen and Norman weren’t in any kind of on-going relationship. They had sex exactly once.

And during that time no unfaithfulness was occurring as Gwen was not with Peter at the time.

“Everyone apparently knew and kept it a secret.”

…er….no…I don’t know how you could even misread Sins Past to come to that conclusion.

The story is extremely explicit that Gwen and Norman kept their encounter and Gwen’s pregnancy a secret. MJ knew about it and told Peter years later. But there is nothing in the story even hinting that anyone else knew besides the three of them.

“During a point where Gwen and Peter were on the outs, she found out she was pregnant, left the country, and gave birth to the kids. These kids were then secreted away by Norman for years.

When Peter found about these kids (but not their origins) he assumed they were his kids, even though he later remembers that he and Gwen never had sex!!”

He never presumes they are his children. Again, great analytical skills there.

“What's worse, is after all was said and done, Peter later went to France to help out Gwen's daughter, who was her spitting image and the same biological age that Gwen was when Peter dated her (they aged fast, look it up) This was all an attempt to seduce Peter and he had to constantly remind himself that his feelings for her were wrong.”

It was absolutely not an attempt to seduce Peter. Sarah’s agenda only later evolved to entail that too but that wasn’t her original motive

In one of the all time best episodes of the Simpsons Homer was tempted by his co-worker Mindy. This occurred in spite of countless episodes demonstrating how much he loved Marge. Ultimately nothing more than a kiss was shared between them and he didn’t succumb to his temptations. In this scenario Peter is being confronted by someone who looks and to an extent acts identically to someone he loved and cruelly lost, someone who for a time he believed he might have a future with. This occurs not very long after he learns that his relationship with that person was at least partially a big lie as she was pregnant for most of their relationship and slept with his ultimate enemy. So he’s going to be incredibly emotionally vulnerable at this point. Sarah kissed him and he didn’t reciprocate at all. Peter if anything can be more forgiven his temptations than Homer was. And Homer was still forgivable as your actions are what ultimately matter. Peter not only acknowledged his feelings were wrong and coming from an emotionally confusing place but he never acted upon them either and reaffirmed his love for MJ when all was said and done. Much like Homer did to Marge after rejecting Mindy.

“Mary Jane had such a bad feeling about it, she travelled to France to check in on her hubby, and walked in on him while Gwen Jr. Was kissing Peter.”

Yeah. Because OOC writing exists dipshit. You don’t just take ANY given story as gospel FFS. What kind of pre-schooler level literary analysis is this?

“The fact that Peter was attracted to a 7 year old girl who only looked like she was in her early 20s because of a genetic disorder is super creepy.”

It is because see above about OOC writing. But by this logic the clones of Gwen were even younger. Sarah was mentally 7 but she looked just like an adult Gwen Stacy so obviously Peter’s emotions and attractions being confused is forgivable under the circumstances.

“So you can totally understand when Mary Jane was upset about that one.”

I’m genuinely shocked this clown was able to be so sympathetic towards MJ here.

“Somewhere, a divorce lawyer just got a huge erection.”

I’m sure he would have if only the story hadn’t ended by reaffirming Peter and MJ’s love for one another.

“It Wasn't Just the Dead Girlfriend, but her Extended Family

Before we get into more of the Stacy family, let's talk about the Watson family for a minute. Mary Jane came from a broken home. An alcoholic and abusive father led to her mother taking the kids and leaving. Although he mom died her sister had two kids and was abandoned by the father. Also, she has a cousin who has an eating disorder. In a lot of these cases, Peter Parker left his wife to deal with the family drama on her own.”

No.

Peter actively helped MJ when she asked him to in ASM #291-292.

He actively helped MJ’s friend who had a drug problem when MJ asked him to.

In the recent one shot Going Big Peter seeks out Kristy when she disappears…because MJ asked him to.

Peter respected MJ and her family and would’ve helped in any way he was able if MJ aske him to.

But between supporting their family, Aunt May and protecting the city because he’s a fucking super hero his time and abilities to help were limited. Oh and MJ didn’t ask him to.

She felt, not unjustifiably, that she could handle it. Often MJ wishes to leave Peter as unburdened as possible if she can handle a situation because his life is dangerous and stressful enough as is. But she knows he’s there to help if she needs it. And he would be there if she needed him.

It’ almost like they were MARRIED or something and divided up their duties appropriately or something.

This clown seems to treat ‘being Spider-Man’ as code for ‘have fun goofing off lulz’. It’s not. It’s a massive duty and higher purpose Peter takes incredibly seriously.

“Which is quite the slap in the face when he spent more time helping the Stacy family. Namely Gwen's cousins Paul and Jill and their dad.”

Because they were his friends, MJ’s friends and at times MJ asked him to help them. Peter didn’t even like spending time with them initially because they opened up old wounds for him. He had to put the work in to hang around them.

“When they appeared in Spider-Man stories in the late 90s, Mary Jane took a back seat to whatever problems the Stacy's were having.”

No she didn’t.

SOMETIMES the problems regarding the Stacy’s happened to be the A plot. Other times they happened to be the B plot. This happened more often than not in peter Parker: Spider-Man by Mackie. But there were FOUR Spider-titles at the time so that’s more than acceptable.

But Peter never helped the Stacy’s at the expense of Mary Jane, not unless there was a clear physical danger posed to their lives.

In Mackie/Byrne’s run MJ and Jill were endangered by the same incident and Peter prioritized saving MJ over Jill.

“You're still dealing with your miscarriage Mary Jane? Sorry, I got to talk Paul Stacy out of a hate group right now.”

Get fucked.

I’ve read PPSM #82-83 as well. In fact they were among my earliest ever comic books I re-read them several years ago.

This is yet another MASSIVE distortion of events.

Peter didn’t talk Paul out of a hate group (specifically the anti-mutant hate group the Friends of Humanity) at the expense of helping MJ deal with their miscarriage.

Peter and MJ were due to meet for a counselling session to talk about the miscarriage. However, Paul was being targeted by a mutant who literally told Peter she was going to murder him. Peter went to prevent that from happening but a bad bout of vertigo (brought on presumably by an encounter with Morbius the Living Vampire) caused Peter to cling to a wall, his life hanging in the balance.

That’s why he missed the therapy session that one time.

He wasn’t goofing off. He wasn’t lecturing Paul about why racism is bad m’kay. He was trying to save his life and then save his own life.

So a quintessential example of distorting the facts and removing things from context.

“Peter Shut Her Out of Every Existential Crisis”

No he didn’t. There were multiple times he questioned if he was doing the right thing, if he was making a difference, etc and talked to her about it

Even if he did shut her out that would be conflict which is what you fucking want in your dramatic story

WOW! Moments of intense mental/emotional strife involve people not acting in a healthy manner, including in regards to their romantic relationships?????? Who’d have THOUGHT!

“Not only were Mary Jane's problems put on a back burner, whenever Peter had a problem, he shut MJ out.”

MJ herself understood some of her problems had to be put on a back burner for the greater good that Spider-Man performed for the world at large.

And the times he shut her out amounted to…I don’t even know…maybe once just prior to the Clone Saga when he was grappling with intense grief and pain and was on the verge of a mental breakdown. Then just went ahead and had the mental breakdown.

“During their marriage, Peter had huge life-changing moments. The first was when his parents came back from the dead only to be revealed as impostors then his Aunt May suffered a life-threatening stroke.”

Yes. These were definitely the first life-changing moments that occurred after he married Mary Jane.

Being buried alive, encountering Venom, going back to school, his best friend turning to villainy and becoming a reserve Avenger certainly wouldn’t have been life changing at all.

“Spider-Man's answer? Give up on being Peter Parker and embracing the spider.”

I’ll take ‘What if grief and emotional trauma’ for 500 Alex!!!!!!!

Honest to Christ. The story makes everything clear as crystal. This is an entirely believable response to trauma, it’s just literalized because the person experiencing it lives a double life already and has super powers.

“The writers were probably going for dark and moody, but looking back at it, it was a lot of whining.”

He lived his whole life in the wake of losing his parents, then had those wounds reopened when he learned they were not dead, then gradually grew to love and trust them, was stabbed in the back by them, found out they were imposters and his parents had been dead after all, then saw them violently die right in front of him, then learned this was perpetuated by his best friend, then the woman who raised him had a stroke and fell into a coma.

That’s not WHINING, that’s an insane amount of grief and pain you fucking idiot.

No human being could cope with that amount of trauma and NOT express their pain in some form. This isn’t him complaining he missed a date or can’t get his studies done. This is his heart being ripped out and stomped on in front of him repeatedly!

“Also, he totally abandoned his wife. Which is a dick move. Hey Pete, she might be someone to support you through your recent loss.”

HE WAS HAVING A MENTAL BREAKDOWN YOU DUMBASS!

NO ONE thinks clearly or logically when they are in that kind of emotional/mental distress. He was grieving the loss of THREE parents for fuck’s sake!

“Somewhere, a grief councilor just got a huge erection.”

This shithead clearly doesn’t know the meaning of the word grief.

“Then came the Clone Saga where Peter was convinced he was actually a clone of the real Spider-Man. He was too wrapped up on the fact that his past was potentially a lie that he couldn't see the good things in his life. He was married. Had a child on the way. None of this registered with him because of all the clones around putting his past into question.”

Peter Parker’s belief system was that a clone is NOT a real human being, it is a creature that is less than human and that in being a clone you have no real identity or right to life, you are just a freak. MJ echoes these sentiments in ASM #400.

Ben Reilly, who had all of Peter’s memories became distraught upon learning he was a clone. That occurred circa 1975 when Peter was approximately 22 years old and hadn’t finished college yet. Ben literally grieved for himself and that the memories in his head were a pretense, a life that was not his. He contemplated killing Peter and taking his life. He became borderline suicidal and anti-social. This went on for years during which he pushed himself to the very edge self-destructively.

Putting aside how the original intent was for Ben to be the REAL Peter Parker, Ben’s behaviours display what a dark and dangerous place Peter could’ve gone to had he been in Ben’s position.

The intent of the Jackal and Norman Osborn in orchestrating the Clone Saga was to shatter Peter’s sense of identity. The Jackal wanted to do that in 1975 with a 22 year old Peter. Norman however knew the blow would hurt Peter much more when he had more to lose and so delayed it until 1995 when Peter would’ve been about 27 years old, had more of a career, longer and deeper connections to his loved ones, a wife and a baby on the way.

When he finally pulled the trigger Peter had also only recently recovered from a terrible mental breakdown, lost Aunt May, been falsely accused of murder, had his sense of identity further damaged by yet more clones of himself appearing and learned that he and MJ’s baby might have serious health problems if he was a clone.

In fact MJ’s first reaction upon learning Peter was a clone was to grip her tummy and express concern for her baby. And remember she directly told him a clone isn’t a real person.

When put in context this caused Peter to have a SECOND mental breakdown. Entirely UNDERSTANDABLY!

This wasn’t a case of appreciating all he had because from his point of view being a clone meant he’d LOST all that. That he COULDN’T have that because he was less than human and not the real person that life belonged to.

If BEN reacted that way when he believed he was a clone then logically OF COURSE Peter was going to take it much, much, much worse.

“It should also be pointed out that during this period, Mary Jane's life was at risk and she was being stalked, again. This time by a clone. However, Peter was once again nowhere to be seen.”

Oh my fucking…HE HAD BEEN ARRESTED!

He wasn’t around because he was literally incarcerated in prison. Breaking out risked exposing his identity and thus endangering MJ and the baby. He also didn’t KNOW she was being stalked. When he found out in ASM #401 he broke out of jail and sought to find her. Later when Ben offered to take his place in jail Peter went on the hunt for MJ’s stalker, his clone Kaine whom he ALSO suspected as the guy who framed him.

Gee, proactively seeking out the guy threatening your wife and who might’ve framed you?

What a shitty husband, it’s not like that’s an entirely practical consideration to take or anything.

“In Heindsight...”

Oh this outta be good

“I could go over every other moment where Peter treated his wife like crap,”

Except he rarely did and the examples you’ve brought up do not hold up to scrutiny in the slightest because you are a clown show of an analyst.

“but those are the huge ones.”

No they aren’t, see above.

“Looking back at the upset of 2007, it's clear that anyone who got mad didn't actually read any of the stories written while Peter and Mary Jane were married.”

That’s so very rich coming from this dipshit, see above.

“Even then, over the past decade there has been a plethora of great Spider-Man stories.”

That’s true.

Agent Venom by Rick Remender

Carnage Family Feud

Carnage USA

Half of Scarlet Spider by Chris Yost

Bits of Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider by Peter David

AXIS Hobgoblin

AXIS Carnage

Carnage by Gerry Conway

Silk by Robbie Thompson

Superior Foes of Spider-Man

ASM: Renew Your Vows

The issue where Flash Thompson lost his legs

The story regarding the Rhino and his girlfriend

Spider-Man 2099 by Peter David

Notice how none of that stuff focuses upon 616 Peter Parker.

Because between 2008-2018 there were no good stories focussing upon 616 Peter Parker.

At best there were mediocre stories focussing upon the pathetic man-child that was Spider-Man in name only.

“In fact, I'd even argue that Dan Slott's run on Spider-Man has contained some of the best Spider-Man stories of the past two decades.”

And you’d just further confirm yourself to be a moron who doesn’t have the first warm shit of a clue about how to analyse stories if you did.

“I can't think or a stellar Spider-Man run past 198 until Slott's run.”

ASM by JMS+Romita Junior

Sensational by Sacasa

Spec by DeMatteis+Buscema

Spec by DeMatteis+Ross

Marvel Knights by Mark Millar

Bits of Peter Parker: Spider-Man by Paul Jenkins

Hypothetically though let’s say they weren’t stellar.

They would still be OBJECTIVELY better than Dan Slott. Like who’s mothers did Michelinie, DeFalco or any of the above guys murder for you to claim Slott was better than them.

None of those guys:

Had Peter become a paparazzi photographer

Had Aunt May claim she was disappointed in Peter for not supporting her the night Uncle Ben died

Had Doc Ock try to rape Mary Jane

Created a clear cut Mary Sue to upstage Spidey in his own book

Turned Spider-Man into Diet Iron Man

Killed off a Ditko-era character for no other reason beyond a shock death. Except Mark Millar but the character was extremely minor

“Next to JMS' run, Slott has been the best Spider-Man writer in decades.”

Again, notice how he CONVENIENTLY neglected to bring up stuff from the JMS run when MJ and the marriage was written the best.

His criteria for judging MJ literally JUST included:

ASM by Michelinie run from 1989-1994

ASM by DeMatteis in 1994

Conway’s Spec/Web runs from 1988-1989

Spec #226 by DeFalco in 1995

Mackie’s PPSM run from 1997

The Mackie/Byrne run from 1999-2001

That was it.

He stated the marriage lasted between 1987-2007 but his analysis halted at 2001. He’s leaving out 6 goddam years worth of material in addition to ALL the other material he conveniently ignored before then.

“Where to Go From Here?

That raises some interesting questions. Will Peter and Mary Jane tie the knot again? It seems like Marvel is marrying characters off again (Colossus and Kitty Pryde as well as Gambit and Rogue) so that's promising.

Another is the promising thing is that the alternate reality series Renew Your Vows has been doing very well.

The last point is the main reason why they nixed the marriage to begin with: Needing a Spider-Man younger readers can relate with.”

The main reason they nixed it was because Quesada was butthurt Gwen died in 1973 and that MJ got to marry him instead.

“For the past number of years they have been promoting the hell out of Miles Morales, the "Ultimate" Spider-Man. They have been grooming him to be the young Spidey that they want for younger fans.”

Maybe don’t use the term ‘grooming’ in the context of a teenage character there buddy.

“While that doesn't mean Peter and MJ are destined to get married again, hopefully they will allow Peter to at least grow up a little.”

I see.

Marriage = bad because it makes him unrelatable to the kids. But also this dipshit wants Peter to ‘grow up a little’…which is what he had done by marrying MJ in the first place.

“However, let me say this: Doing what's expected doesn't necessarily make for a good story, it's the unexpected.”

Why don’t you ask Star Wars and Game of Thrones fans what they think about that buddy?

“That's what made Slott's run on Spider-Man so great.”

That’s true. Nobody expected Slott would have Doc Ock masturbate in Peter’s body. Nobody expected him to drag out our suffering for as long as he did. Nobody expected he’d invoke such a juvenile idea as Norman Osborn becoming carnage.

“Let's hope Nick Spencer continues that tradition.’

Fuck the unexpected. Just give me competency.

#Spider-Man #mjwatsonedit #Mary Jane Watson #mj watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker #Peter Parker #ben Reilly #Brand New Day #Dan Slott #Clone Saga #submission

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hellzyeahwebwielingessays · 4 years

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The Not-So-Amazing Mary Jane Part 27: AMJ #3.1

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*pinches bridge of nose* Oh my God this is so bad

I was hoping last issue was a fluke but no. This issue also demands we dissect the recap page.

Let me just spell out for you all some fundamental dos and don’ts of a recap page.

DO please recap the events that happened in prior issues, or relevant context from any other issues.

DON’T introduce new information.

Last issue was guilty of that. And now so is this issue, arguably moreso.

This recap provides us with the working title for the Mysterio biopic. That’s right, the very first time we learn the name of the movie is on this recap page not in the actual story!

Want to hear another oh so slightly important DON’T to bear in mind?

DON’T contradict the story you are recapping!

The recap claims funding dried up when the footage of Beck abusing a crewmember leaked. That wasn’t the situation in issue #2. MJ speculated that that might be part of the reason. But the bigger reason was that Beck had sold the investors one one type of film and delivered another.

Let’s also consider this line from the recap.

…video of Cage acting more like, well, Mysterio…

So the recap (and by extension Williams, the editors and presumably MJ herself) acknowledge that Mysterio being abusive is standard practice for him. Good to know they are aware he’s a horrible dangerous person but are just ignoring that then.

The recap also confirms for us that MJ is definitely the only person who knows ‘McKnight’ is really Beck. So absolutely everyone on the crew are unwittingly putting themselves at risk, and MJ is just letting that happen. If they knew they might not want to work with him for one reason or another, but MJ and Beck are knowingly withholding that choice from them. It doesn’t matter that they are only getting this shot because of Beck’s charity, at least some of them would think twice if they were aware of the potential scandal they were working on.

The recap also contradicts last issue’s recap in regards to the staff of the movie. Last time it was staffed by ‘outsiders’ but now it’s ‘newcomers, rejects and outsiders’. Which is it? I’m not claiming this is irreconcilable or that big of a deal storywise but it’s another example of the incompetent craftsmanship on this title. Not to mention this recap again omits the fact that active villains are working on the film.

The recap also implies Mary Jane is ‘invested’ in the film. Let me get this out of the way now to save myself time later. Mary Jane wouldn’t be invested in this movie, at least not the way the story is depicting her as.

To a large extent this touches upon earlier instalments where I explained why MJ wouldn’t sympathise with Beck, why she wouldn’t regard him as a kindred spirit and why she wouldn’t value her career above the greater good.

Having said all that I don’t feel it’s necessary to dedicate a whole instalment to why MJ wouldn’t be invested in the movie. The idea that MJ would endanger herself and others for the sake of an artistic project she believed in or was interested in is fucking ridiculous.

The idea she’d be chummy with Mysterio is fucking ridiculous given their shared history and what she knows about him. But, just as a little reminder, here is Daredevil v2 #8, where MJ basically says Beck deserves no pity.

As we open up the story proper, Mallorie rescues a veteran actor (Sonny Diperna) cast as the Vulture. Specifically she rescues him from the Scorpion who trashes the set.

This scene has an admittedly funny meta-gag about Michael Keaton having played both Adrian Toomes in the MCU and Birdman in the eponymous movie.

Mallorie is also pretty cool here. Initially I was going to complain about how unlikely it is for there to be two capable and resourceful civilians in this story (MJ and Mallorie). However, in thinking about it, MJ didn’t become resourceful in the first place due to rare life circumstances. Therefore it’s perfectly reasonable that Mallorie be similarly resourceful in a crisis. Plus her job on set opens up the idea that she knows how to muddle through a crisis.

On the next two pages Vulture menaces the set and we are more formally introduced to his Savage Six. They consist of Vulture, Scorpion, Stegron, Tarantula (I don’t know which one), Rhino and King Cobra.

Whilst Williams characterization of Beck is generally great (albeit too sympathetic) the same can’t be said of Vulture. Making art or artistic vision a theme for this series (and Mysterio specifically) is perfectly invited by the premise of the story. However, it’s very ill fitting for a character like Vulture. Vulture is absolutely not defined by that theme whatsoever. He’s an inventor. He’s a grumpy, bitter old man. He’s someone who’s got a chip on his shoulder, out to prove that he isn’t passed his prime.

With that said, what the Hell is up with this dwelling upon ‘art’ in these two pages?

Fleeing the chaos, Diperna mistakes the villains as part of the film; a fact Mallorie goes along with. As Kangaroo (who’s basically the muscle on set) gets defeated, MJ and Beck try to escape. MJ insists they get the staff to safety which Beck agrees with, deciding to act as a diversion. MJ is concerned for his life, but Beck assures her it’ll be fine. Just then he’s dragged away by Scorpion.

MJ seeks out Noah from last issue and drives his truck towards the Rhino.

The art isn’t exactly clear on what she does next, but the end result is that she’s gathered up all the cast and crew into the truck. Meanwhile, Beck begins to engage the six by conjuring his trademark green smoke.

Mallorie and Diperna make it to the truck, with MJ lowering the ramp to allow them access. She is visibly concerned for Beck as they move out of sight of one another. The cast and crew for their part are star struck by Diperna. Diperna explains that he came out of retirement to play the Vulture as it was something different from the roles he was usually typecasted as. He elaborates that the movie has Hollywood on edge and that the elites do not want the film to succeed. He joined the cast to help them out a bit.

Elsewhere, Mysterio duels the Savage Six. He uses his illusions to trick them into believing they are in the desert. As they begin miles of marching, Vulture speculates McKnight is a double agent for A.I.M. When the illusion ends they find themselves at a national park, prompting Vulture to swear vengeance.

Much later MJ laughs at Beck’s trick complimenting his cleverness. However, the event has prompted several cast and crew to leave and delayed shooting even more. Thankfully Beck’s found a safe new location to film at.

Sorry for that lengthy description. I just felt it was more efficient to get through that whole sequence and then break it down fully.

First of all, see all my prior comments about how bullshit it is for MJ to compliment, laugh at, be concerned for, or be sympathetic towards Beck. I also find Williams choice to frame him in a heroic, self-sacrificing light to be questionable. He is after all none of those things. Just the last issue the story called out the movie as a vanity project.

Additionally, this whole situation is exemplary of many of the points I made in parts 19-23. Here we have a major crisis with super villains on the rampage. Civilians and property are in jeopardy.

And Mary Jane’s abilities to help are limited. They are in fact incredibly reliant upon Mysterio covering her. Noticeably, he is the one actually fighting the Savage Six. MJ’s abilities to help are limited to shepherding and transporting people to safety. But she’s only able to do that with Mallorie’s help and the presence of a huge truck that was there purely by chance.

What If Beck wasn’t present, or worse, on the Six’s side? What if Mallorie hadn’t saved Diperna? What if there hadn’t been a truck? How would MJ have succeeded realistically? I’m not saying it’s impossible but her chances of survival were slim at best and would’ve been reliant upon finding other resources to exploit to her advantage.

Furthermore, the Knagaroo was injured in the fray. Maybe not seriously, but he was nevertheless injured and MJ was powerless to prevent that. He was lucky to have survived at all, now imagine if he was a normal security guard who had no experience fighting super powered type? How likely would he have been to live?

Now of course, the Six’s attack wasn’t exactly Mysterio’s fault. We could argue if Beck hadn’t endeavoured to make the film or omitted to include the Vulture the situation might’ve been avoided. However, this isn’t the first production in the Marvel universe to include ‘real’ super villains. Had the real Cage McKnight (or any director) made any movie featuring the Vulture at this time, it would’ve happened. In fact without MJ or Beck’s presence the cast and crew’s likely wouldn’t have fared as well.

Nevertheless, as far as MJ knows a similar situation could have occurred (or could still unfold) with beck and/or his criminal crew. Last issue she already saw Beck start a panic in the streets by throwing a tantrum. She doesn’t know all the crew so well as to guarantee they wouldn’t do anything nefarious. And in such a situation, her abilities to help would be extremely limited and situational, just like they were here. In fact if Beck has just explained to her how he single handily dealt with six super villains (who’re all stronger than him by the way) shouldn’t that spell out to MJ just how dangerous he is? That he could very easily ‘deal’ with her too if he wanted to and her chances of victory would be extremely slim?

Then we have the revelation that cast and crewmembers have left the project. The implication is that these crewmembers left because of the Six’s attack. Either they were hurt or more likely they were concerned about the risk. However, none of them were aware that they were already taking a big health/career risk by working under Mysterio himself; whilst he was stealing someone’s identity no less. MJ’s complicity in this deception is removing the agency of the cast and crew for no justifiable reason.

More problematically we don’t know if any of the crew who left were the active villains spoken of in issue #1. If they were then MJ has just allowed them to walk away without facing justice! And realistically given how they are fugitives and the film was a unique opportunity they are very probably going to go back to crime! But Mary Jane is laughing!

Now in the interests of fairness I should point out Beck did put himself at some risk for MJ and the others. This is one of the important factors that has led Peter to giving criminals a chance at redemption in the past. We looked at several of these back in part 10. However, noticeably most of those people weren’t as bad as Beck. They also hadn’t hurt Peter or his loved ones as personally the way Beck has from MJ’s point of view. There were also other extenuating factors going on that led to Peter giving them a shot. Often this entailed Peter knowing there was something or someone capable of reliably keeping the reforming criminals in check. Whether that was his own super human abilities or an official body monitoring them, the point is MJ hasn’t got anything like that in this situation.

Beck might’ve shown a glimmer of promise, but MJ is fully aware how villains like Venom and Sandman have displayed moments of self-sacrifice too. They’ve continued to do bad things in spite of that, or gone back on any promise they once showed. That doesn’t mean that Beck definitely would, but it’s a humongous gamble to take with no insurance.

And let’s remember what Beck was willing to sacrifice himself for? His cast and crew? No. His art. Look back at the page introducing the Six. Beck accuses them of being ‘Enemies of Art’.

Yes, the most generous interpretation is that Beck genuinely cares. But it’s also more than possible his care fro his cast and crew extends merely to their contributions to his vanity project.

On the next page we discover Beck’s new, safe location is something of a shithole.

Beck’s hired a new crew, but with everything that’s happened cuts will need to be made. MJ suggests they cut the romance scene with her character. Beck points out that it’s less screen time for MJ. MJ counters it doesn’t take away from the hero’s development and that it was always self-indulgent anyway. She follows up that they are making a biopic, not a fantasy film. Beck seems miffed at this point.

There is a fair bit to unpack here.

MJ is being self-sacrificing here, which is true to her character. She’s allowing her career opportunities to suffer in order for the project over all to succeed. This further hurts the argument that MJ is sticking around for the sake of her career.

But the context is confusing.

In ASM v5 #29 dialogue from the script was ripped straight from Webspinners #1-3.

This dialogue involved Beck talking to an old flame (Betsy Schneider), arguably the only woman he was ever in love with. She was noticeably not a super heroine, yet in the movie she was. I didn’t bother to bring that up before because, this being a vanity project, it’s not unbelievable that Beck would misrepresent his life inaccurately. ‘Look at me I got a sexy super hero for a girlfriend! Aren’t I cool!’.

MJ wouldn’t necessarily know the truth of Beck’s lover so I didn’t bring it up before. Here though, Williams is implying that she has sussed out that Beck was making that aspect up. At which point MJ should further realise the movie is an exercise in self-indulgence. She even says so in this scene.

More confusingly, in issue #1 Beck heavily implied to MJ that he was making this movie (and wanted her in it) largely because he felt he let Betsy down. That being the case, wouldn’t cutting out the romance undermine the point of the movie? Or at least undermine it from MJ’s POV? Honestly, that’s not that big of a deal though. Beck’s motivations for making the film have already been contradicted since issue #1 anyway; it’s already a goddam mess.

Furthermore, the scene specifically says romance ‘scene’, as int eh singular. Call me crazy but whenever there is a romance between a protagonist and a love interest in a film their romance isn’t confined to just the ONE scene. It’s usually a few scenes at least. In this case, MJ’s character exists in the story fundamentally to be Beck’s lover. She’s been given much more than that due to MJ’s suggestions in issue #1. But that was still the primary role she existed for. This means MJ’s role in the movie goes against the entire reason Beck included her. So why would he agree to that? Why would MJ suggest it if her investment hinges upon sympathy for Beck? She has basically taken Beck’s original intention for her character and gone from improving upon it to basically substituting all of his original intent for something else entirely.

She even calls its inclusion unrealistic. That could be a display of her trademark confidence (MJ is fully aware she is attractive) and/or a dig at Beck. Either way she’s tempting fate there. She already saw him throw a tantrum last issue and now she’s altered arguably the most important role in the movie to him and thrown shade at him over it. Real clever.

Additionally she refers to Beck’s role as the hero. This further contradicts issue #1’s assertions that the film was portraying Beck as a villain. It’s also rich for MJ to claim the romance should be cut as the film is a biopic. By that logic Beck shouldn’t be framed heroically, empathetically and the film should apologise for his acts of evil.

There is also a meta-argument to be made about Williams’ intentions with this page. It’s possible she’s critiquing the superfluous nature of so many romance stories in Hollywood films, arguably super hero films in particular. I don’t really have any praise or problems with that if it is the intent. Just thought I’d point it out.

As for the new crewmember…we’ll get to them later.

Over on the next page ‘McKnight’ tells Mallorie to give MJ a producer’s credit. Beck explains that the new location is an abandoned zoo, hence why it’s a shithole. He proceeds to introduce the new members of the crew.

The only thing of note is Beck giving MJ a producer credit. This raised an eyebrow from me because it epitomizes so much of MJ’s role in the story thus far.

MJ’s most famous profession is an an actress. In the majority of adaptations that’s her job. It was part of how she was introduced to us in ASM #43. It’s one of the things that thematically connects her to Spider-Man. It’s also through her renewed interest in acting that we got this story.

In fact MJ gave a heartfelt monologue specifically about acting in ASM v5 #25 and it was this monologue that led to her job on the biopic.

And yet in this story Mary Jane has spent very little time acting. The story itself has ruminated very little about her role as an actress or depicted her acting at all. Mysterio has been acting far more than Mary Jane has.

MJ’s main role thus far in the story has been as Beck’s right hand, as his producer.

Isn’t that rather problematic? That wasn’t the story as advertised in Spencer’s ASm run, nor even in the initial build up to AMJ’s release. It also goes against the themes that have traditionally defined Mary Jane, especially within the context of her actually working on a movie.

I have a tinfoil hat idea as to why this might be the case though. Here is an excerpt from an interview Williams gave prior to issue #1’s release:

It's set in Hollywood and it's a film production, and my work background is actually in film production. I lived in LA for a little while. So drawing upon the full arsenal of my Hollywood hot mess stories of what goes on on film sets, that has been an absolute delight. Because then I can also demonstrate how MJ is able to think on her feet and be like, okay, well let's not do the bad thing. Instead, let's be smart about it. Very cathartic, again. So cathartic.

-From Bleeding Cool

I’m not going to presume working in ‘film production’ means Williams was a producer per se. I’ve also been unable to find any evidence that she was a credited producer nor that she worked as an actress.

But it seems to me Williams in drawing upon her personal experiences is skewing MJ more towards the jobs she personally did. In other words Williams is writing MJ as closer to a producer than an actress. It comes across very much like Spencer/the editors handed her a certain premise and she then terra formed it into what she wanted to do, rather than what the direction he set up implied.

That is all total speculation on my part. I have no hard proof at all to corroborate that.

But if that is what’s going on, then I find it kinda shitty. It’s not exactly what the role asked of her as a writer and more poignantly it’s not what MJ’s history invites either. It’s not that MJ couldn’t be a decent producer it’s just that that isn’t where the thematic resonance for her character lies. At least, not within the context of making a movie.

Let’s leave it there for now and continue next time.

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yexiu · 6 years

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hey i hope this isn't a bother but i am really interested in reading miles' story in the comics but i'm kind of confused because does his story start in ultimate spiderman? if you could, could you please guide me to a good starting point :-) thank you for your time

it’s not a bother!! i’m so happy you’re interested in reading miles’ story, he’s one of the most engaging and easy to love characters in comics! i have a brief rundown what to read for all the champions here but i can explain the miles’ part again and in more detail because i really just touched on it in that post.

so a brief rundown on ultimates: ultimate marvel (or earth-1610) was an imprint started in 2000 with an idea that it would be easier for new readers if there wasn’t 50-something years of history to backread. they also wanted ultimates to be more realistic than 616, the main marvel universe –– namely, deaths in ultimates would stick (that didn’t happen but it was a nice thought!). miles is originally from this universe.

ultimate spider-man featured a teenage peter parker for the first time since the 60s and gave him a supporting cast + friends in high school, something the 616 version hadn’t had until he went to college. big spoiler for the series but peter parker dies in “the death of spider-man” (reading order here and it’s honestly a really good story) and that means that spider-man is open for someone new!

i really recommend reading ultimate spider-man from the beginning because it’s a surprising well-done comic and the best one from the imprint in my opinion but if you just want miles:

Ultimate Comics Spider-Man vol. 2 (2011) #1 - 12

Spider-Men vol. 1 (2012) #1 - 5

Ultimate Spider-Man vol. 1 (2000) #200

Miles Morales: Ultimate Spider-Man vol. 1 (2014) #1 - 12

All-New Ultimates vol. 1 (2014) #1 - 12

Secret Wars vol. 1 (2015) #1 - 9

Spider-Man vol. 2 (2016) #1 - 21 + Annual #1

All-New, All-Different Avengers vol. 1 (2016) #1 - 15 + Annual #1

Champions vol. 2 (2016) #1 - 10

Spider-Men II vol. 1 (2017) #1 - 5

Champions vol. 2 #11 - 25

Spider-Man vol. 2 renumbers to vol. 1 #234 - 240

secret wars (and times runs out, the stories that lead up to sw 2015) is the storyline that brought miles into 616 continuity and it’s imo the best event marvel’s ever done, but it is a LOT of reading and hickman had been planning and setting this up for years! you don’t need to read all of it to understand the main story but it’s good in a way i don’t think comics have been since. here’s an order for hickman’s marvel.

if you want his full appearance list (which is honestly only 313 appearances) so you can read it chronologically, here you go! i recommend using the order once you get to post-secret wars (aka anad avengers/spider-man v2/champions) because they reference each other and it’s not as clean cut as in my short list.

if you have any other questions or you need any more help, feel free to ask!! it’s never a bother! i’m planning on making a complete order for miles soon (in the style of my f4 one) so keep an eye out for that too!

#miles morales #comics.txt #*reading lists #anons #📬#thank you for asking!!

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youngonescast · 6 years

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Whatever Happened to Elijah Bradley?!

Every character from the first volume of Young Avengers v1 has gotten room to breathe and grow except for Elijah Bradley, Patriot. Iron Lad is Kang, an entire bundle of stories and confusion. Billy and Teddy, Hulkling and Wiccan, have had truly excellent adventures in New Avengers. Cassie Lang, previously Stature, has been brought back to life and got a new code name as Stinger. Kate has her own solo book as Hawkeye. Elijah was one of the original members, one that jumped at the call to heroism, one that had a history and heritage of heroism. But since the end of Avengers: Children’s Crusade neither hide nor hair has been seen of the third generation Super-Soldier. He retired to Scottsdale and works in voter registration? Bull.

There aren’t so many black superheroes that you can’t remember them all, Luke Cage once remarked, and the world of Marvel would be diminished without their gallantry. But the name of the game for teen books is Tokenism. It gives the illusion of diversity without actually attempting to be diverse. It allows writers to use the tropes and art associated with black culture without actually depicting the reality of being black in America. Elijah was Young Avengers’ Token and connection to the Captain America lore. African American heroes are all burdened with the responsibility to represent all of us in the medium and the most common way that is accomplished is by putting one black person on the team regardless of if they are African American or not. Patriot was no different, he was the heroic vehicle for the black readership.

African American leaders in the public eye understand that they have that representative duty, the duty to be visible, to stand up and make certain that we are heard. During the recent Secret Empire event there was a call for heroes who resisted fascism to stand up and fight. It is unrealistic that an heir of the Captain America legacy would step down from the call of duty during such a dark hour in Marvel’s American history. That isn’t Patriot. But what is obvious is that Nick Spencer didn’t want to go back to the Bradleys, he would rather give the mantle to Sam Wilson than the Super-Soldiers they already have. Nick Spencer would rather the WWII Black Captain America, his Son, and his Grandson be forgotten in the fight against fascism.

The origin of the Bradley Legacy is rooted, of course, in black creators. Kyle Baker and the late Robert Morales were responsible for the creation of Isaiah Bradley in Truth: Red, White, and Black, a controversial story which gave the origin to the Super-Soldier Serum that mirrored the Tuskegee Experiments. Then later that same year Christopher Priest and Benedito José Nascimento, Joe Bennett, created Josiah al hajj Saddiq, Isaiah Bradley’s son, Elijah’s uncle in The Crew. So when Patriot is sidelined so firmly it is erasing not just a black teen super-hero but the legacy of black creators in Marvel comics. But it’s simple to see the why, explaining a black Muslim Captain America might make some people uncomfortable. So Prodigy replaced Patriot as the token in Young Avengers v2.

In Young Avengers v2 issue 12. The team gathers the Avengers Academy, Generation Hope, Academy X, Power Pack, and even some Runaways to fight interdimensional copies of themselves but for some reason they don’t think to call their backbone, their actual Captain America. It was established early on in the series that Elijah was contactable by phone but not once in months of space and dimension hopping adventures did they reach out. In fact it is incredibly suspect that in the hordes of the mayfly universes the only Patriot we see is the antagonist of the piece. In that climactic last battle we could have had the heroic return of a dear friend. Why didn’t we? The book could have at least attempted to pass the ‘Racial Bechdel’ but it didn’t.

Elijah Bradley is an example of the cost of color, the cost of Islamophobia, and the cost in loving teen characters at all. Infinitely more replaceable than their iconic counterparts teen heroes die just as often as their adult counterparts with far fewer resurrections. More importantly, as in Elijah’s case, they just don’t show up again sometimes, forgotten or purposefully avoided. To Marvel editorial or any other creative who may read this and be convinced: Please, do not ignore or sideline the contributions of black creators in comics. It is being respectfully requested that we learn what has happened to Elijah Bradley, that the character be given the same respect and opportunity as every other member of Young Avengers v1.

Find out more about Young Avengers on our podcast here.

Written by Everett Christensen, Young One’s Lead Editor

Images:

Avengers: The Children’s Crusade #8 of 9, cover by Jim Cheung and Justin Ponsor

Young Avenger Presents #1, W: Ed Brubaker, P: Paco Medina, I: Juan Velasco, C: Nathan Fairbain

Young Avengers #1, W: Allan Heinberg, P: Jim Cheung I: John Dell C: Justin Ponsor

Truth: Red, White, and Black #5 . W: Robert Morales, Artist: Kyle Baker

The Crew #6 W: Christopher Priest P: Benedito José Nascimento

Young Avengers Special W: Allan Heinberg, A: Pasqual Ferry, I: Dave McCaig

#Comics #Young Avengers #black superheroes #elijah bradley #podcast #Patriot

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fyeahfantasticfour · 6 years

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Hey, I really love this blog! It has been great to go through it during this time while the team is absent. I have a question: What do you think about Marvel possibly making 616 Sue a doctor? Not a genius scientist like Reed (which is where I think Ultimate FF went wrong with her),but a medic of some kind is missing from the team and it's a role not occupied by Reed. There are panels of having to operate at times throughout the FF's history (do you have panels?). I think it would be good for her

Thank you! I’m glad you like it! :)

I honestly don’t know how I feel about Sue becoming a doctor because her father was a famous surgeon and he was…not a great person. The worst, really. I don’t know if I want a story where she idolized him so much that she became a doctor. I already don’t like that canon has never really acknowledged how shitty her dad was -- they even had her name her son after him. And then there’s the fact that being a doctor is a stereotypically feminine caretaking role, so…I don’t know, I’m not crazy about it for several reasons. There is an alternate version of Sue in Fantastic Four v3 #48 who has a good relationship with her father and becomes a doctor, if you’re interested.

And, to be honest, I think that in this day and age Sue absolutely needs to be written as Reed’s equal – if not better – in every conceivable way, including her intellect. Canon’s been trending that way for a while, which I’m glad of – the original balance of power between them is no longer acceptable. Of course, that doesn’t mean she has to be a scientist – I think people have a disturbing tendency to equate intelligence with the possession of scientific knowledge, which I disagree with strongly. Alicia Masters, for instance, is not a scientist, but she is certainly a genius, and her artistic knowledge should not be presented as less valuable or important than Reed’s scientific knowledge. So no matter what Sue’s occupation is, she should be depicted as being in possession of a startling and formidable intellect.

Personally, I like to think that 616 Sue is a genius, but she has been the victim of unfortunate life circumstances and a series of personal tragedies that prevented her from attaining the level of formal education that would have allowed her to become analogous to 1610 Sue or even 616 Reed.

More under the cut!

She was neglected as a child by her bitter, bickering parents; this was followed soon after by her mother’s tragic death in a car accident; her father’s descent into alcoholism and gambling, which ultimately led to the loss of the family fortune and the impoverishment of the Storm siblings; her father’s life imprisonment after he accidentally killed his loan shark, which meant Sue and Johnny had to go live with their Aunt Marygay; and then, somehow, Sue ended up with custody of Johnny at some point in her late teens and was left raising him and working to support them both, which Johnny says at one point in Human Torch v2 12 meant that she was unable to finish college and earn a degree. And there are hints in 616 that she’s actually incredibly smart. She picks up quite a lot about science just by listening to her husband, which she wouldn’t be capable of if she weren’t brilliant to begin with:

So, yeah, I like to think of 1610 Sue as what 616 Sue could and should have become if she hadn’t lost both of her parents and wound up having to take on the burden of raising Johnny at such a young age.

Besides, Sue’s got a better head for business than Reed (who is AWFUL at it – how many times did the FF go bankrupt while he was in charge of their finances?) and she is, I’m pretty convinced, a better strategist and leader than he is. I enjoy her characterization in the Marvel Adventures Universe specifically because it spotlights her leadership abilities – in that universe, she’s a founding member and the leader of both the Fantastic Four and the Avengers, and I love it.

I have to admit also that I actually very much enjoy 616 Sue as the CEO of Fantastic Four, Inc., although I do think that more narrative space and importance should be given to it. If she is running a multinational corporation and multiple charities (which she is)…that is time-consuming and difficult. How does she have time to do that AND juggle her responsibilities as celebrity, superhero, part-time SHIELD agent, mom, wife, and the Queen of Old Atlantis? This is why I would kill for a solo Sue comic – she is Marvel’s very first female superhero, and she deserves one, and I think there is so much story there to tell! Canon hasn’t focused as much on Sue as it should – Sue POV issues are comparatively rare. Besides, every member of the Fantastic Four except Sue has had a solo series – even Franklin has – and I think we all know why she’s the only one who hasn’t gotten her own comic. But she is such a dynamic, badass, complex, and fascinating character, not to mention the fact that she is the most powerful member of the Fantastic Four, which means that she is also one of the most powerful superheroes in the Marvel Universe. She has taken down Doom and the armies of Latveria on her own, she has fended off attacks from Celestials, made seasoned supervillains faint just by talking to them, taken down the Avengers in about thirty seconds flat…

So when she comes back, I want to see her mentoring younger female heroes, as she’s done with both Anya Corazon and Jean Grey. I want there to be more focus on Sue’s friendships with other women, like Alicia Masters, Sharon Ventura, Jen Walters, Janet Van Dyne, and especially her relationship with her daughter Valeria (I think the fact that Val’s brilliant has meant that a lot of focus has shifted to her relationship with Reed rather than Sue, but Val’s ruthlessness definitely comes from Sue, not Reed). I want to know more about Sue’s relationships with her aunt and her mother – we don’t even know what her mother did for a living. We don’t know what happened to her aunt – is she alive? Did she die too? Is that why Sue had to take custody of Johnny so unexpectedly? There’s so much focus on the men in her life, and virtually none on the women. Just. An issue where Valeria and Sue talk about Val’s grandmother! Her Great Aunt Marygay! Anything! Basically, more of this:

I want to know more about Sue’s struggles running Fantastic Four, Inc. It must have been difficult at first – she was a failed actress turned superhero turned CEO. Come on. A beautiful woman with not much in the way of professional credentials or business experience, running the company she and her husband founded together? She would have been dismissed by misogynistic old businessmen as a pretty face and an empty head, she would have faced sexist remarks, condescension, and underestimation from all sides. There are so many Sue stories left to tell!

I mostly just want her to be given the respect and admiration she deserves – by writers, artists, and fans alike.

#asks #susan storm #mod: lamujerarana #Anonymous #long post

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scarletwitchpanels · 2 years

Text

Scarlet Witch & Magneto in History of the Marvel Universe #5

#wanda maximoff #scarlet witch #erik lehnsherr #magneto #magnus family #hex power #marvel 616 #history of the marvel universe #history of the marvel universe v2 #javier rodriguez

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god-hunter · 7 years

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The Defenders #1

My how the scope of Marvel has changed. Thanks to bold moves by Marvel Netflix, and a massive decline in Avengers Continuity, The Defenders have become all the rage. Myself, included!

Way back in New Avengers volume 2, Bendis wrote a line by Wong, where he said to Luke Cage, “Clearly, you’re the New Defenders.” And I didn’t get it, until now.

I had always complained that New Avengers vol. 2 was like the Avengers B-Team. It was Street-Level and sort of just like, personal battles. People didn’t like it, and I enjoyed what I could, but some of it wasn’t great.

But then the run ended altogether, and we got Hickman’s mish mosh of Sci-Fi nonsense meets Epic Brilliance.

What I’m getting at though was... no one told Luke Cage stories like Bendis did. His adventures did continue through Mighty Avengers vol. 2, which wasn’t the same, but at least it was something.

Since then, Luke & Iron Fist had their own book, which I wasn’t interested in pursuing and Jess got her own solo book back, once the Marvel Netflix Universe started to really pick up speed.

And, that basically brings us to here. But why I mention New Avengers vol. 2 at all is because I learned JUST NOW, that apparently Bendis had this book planned ALL ALONG, since then. He pitched it at the end of his Avengers run, and Marvel execs shot it down.

The Netflix stuff may or may not have been a test, but WHOA Holy SHIT did it pay off. Because now people can’t WAIT for a Defenders show, and we’re all REALLY EXCITED for a Defenders comic.

When back in the day, The Defenders were always considered sort of like, the estranged reject Avengers team. But now they’re like.. the gritty hardcore team that no one knew they needed.

Alright, so as far as this Debut Issue goes, right when we start I feel like I’ve already missed something. Stylistically though, I really enjoy how it involves all 4 of our heroes in their personal lives, and how they’re not exactly working together yet. [They know each other and they’re friends of course. They just have their own things going on, which are going to connect. THAT is the type of team origin that I love to read.]

Also, there’s a cameo of Black Cat in here, which we’ve seen a lot of in Bendis’ Spider-man book. So that’s cool too.

Enough delay though. Let’s get on with the Review.

[SPOILERS]

This issue starts with a dude in a yellow trench coat and a sweet black gangster hat, shaking down a layer or businessman type at a concert. He comes at him with a tiny vile of what’s supposed to be “IGH”, but is instead “Laundry Detergent.”

The guy acts coy about it, but when he doesn’t back off, the suit pulls out a gun. And that’s when trench force-feeds him the stuff, which ultimately kills him. Then he leaves a trail of diamonds behind, which seems to be his thing.

[I had no idea who this was until a little later, but that turned out to be Diamondback - Luke Cage’s enemy.]

Then we cut to LUKE CAGE, who gets his own page complete with a panel of familiar iconic moments of his history. From a classic fight with Doctor Doom, to his time served in New Avengers (v2), to time served in prison, to him holding Baby Danielle in his arms for the first time.

That was nice to see. In the current moment, Luke is just walking the streets of Harlem, when suddenly a large bullet, or missile or what-have-you just barely misses him, and causes the building right by him to blow up.

He runs away with his hoodie on fire and tells the nearby pedestrians to call 9-1-1. He ends up finding the source of that shot. It was an automated turret on legs. 3 diamonds are on the ground nearby, and Luke looks at them annoyed.

Then he gets a phone call, and it’s really nebulous as to what’s going on, but on a 2nd read combined with the title page after it, you find out that his Estranged Wife, Jessica Jones got shot. So now he’s out to visit her at the Hospital.

“WHERE IS SHE?” He hollers when he gets in there.

He finds her asleep and feels terrible.

Then Daredevil appears from a ceiling tile, saying that he protected her with a different alias. [Ah? See what I did there?]

Daredevil gets the nice logo and panel treatment as well, as we move on.

“What are you doing here?”

We find that he was attacked too, as his alter ego, which people don’t know is Nelson Murdock any more for some reason.

“Someone knows your secret! I don’t even know your secret.”

“Someone targeted the four of us at the same time.”

That’s when Danny Rand, the Iron Fist walks up to the room, exhausted.

[And there we have it. Not quite as organic, as I’d hope, but it’s okay.]

They all wonder, who it could’ve been, and that’s when Jess wakes up and says, “It was Diamondback.”

Jessica gets her own, nice logo and panel treatment.

Then we see Luke contemplate the fact that Diamondback has been dead for years.

“Yeah, no one we know ever pulled that trick out of their ass.” Jess comments on people always coming back from the dead.

Then to just move things along, we get a cool moment where Black Cat makes an appearance. I wasn’t expecting this at all. Diamondback is waiting for her at her place. She’s even talking to Hammerhead, before she gets in her window, proving even more that Bendis is definitely tying in his Spider-man continuity to his other books here. That’s just great.

She isn’t afraid of him at all. In fact, she finds it amusing that he “took a wide swing at Luke Cage. his wife and his best pal... You’re going to be in assisted living by breakfast.”

Then we’re treated to 4 huge panels across 2 pages of Jessica, Iron Fist, Daredevil and Luke Cage, independently working towards the same goal.

“WHERE IS DIAMONDBACK?!” They all collectively say. Save for Jess, who does her usual calm detective work.

I’m bypassing more of Black Cat’s conversation with Diamondback for time.

Luke ends up finding him and trying to fight him by himself. And much to our surprise, Luke doesn’t stand a chance.

The rest of our guys are at a bar, trying to find leads. Daredevil says that he thinks they need to work together all the time. “I think people on the street need to know we’re working together.”

It’s definitely agreed upon, and Daredevil says that they need to up their game.

Jess holds up a beer and tells them that she’s sure Luke already has this one in the bag.

That’s when we find that Luke is losing horribly against Diamondback. And even Black Cat feels bad.

“Dumb move, coming at me all by himself.”

-To Be Continued-

And so the first issue ends.

Honestly, it wasn’t as good or amazing as I was hoping it would be. But it’s still nice to see the continued adventures of Luke Cage, Jess, Danny Rand AND Daredevil.

This issue includes a special ‘Pulse’ interview by Ben Urich to Luke Cage. But I didn’t read it...

I dunno. I think this book will get way better. I did like the pacing. And yet, at first I definitely felt like I missed something. I also felt like there was a lot of action for the sake of action, if I’m honest.

But what’s hard is that all of these guys know each other. So... on that front, I think Bendis organically re-introduced these guys very well.

It was them getting together So quickly that may or may not have thrown me off. I don’t really know how I feel about this one still, to be honest.

Outside of the Netflix show, I know next to nothing about Diamondback. Don’t really care about Luke Cage villains. That’s why I didn’t buy the duo comic, “Luke Cage and Iron Fist.”

Buuuuut either way. I’m looking forward to the neeeext oooone.

Until Defenders #2.

#Defenders #Issue 1 #Brian Bendis #Marvel #NOW! 2017

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impactcomicscbr · 7 years

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DEADPOOL BY POSEHN AND DUGGAN HC VOL 01

DEADPOOL KILLUSTRATED TP

DEATHSTROKE TP VOL 01 THE PROFESSIONAL (REBIRTH)

DEATHSTROKE TP VOL 02 LOBO HUNT (N52)

DEVILS & REALIST GN VOL 01

DISNEY PIXAR FINDING NEMO CINESTORY TP

DOCTOR STRANGE TP VOL 01 WAY OF WEIRD

DONALD DUCK BIG SNEEZE TP

DONALD DUCK DIABOLICAL DUCK AVENGER TP

DOOM PATROL TP BOOK 03 (MR)

DREAMING COLLECTION GN

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS LEGEND OF DRIZZT TP VOL 06 HALFINGS GEM

EARTH 2 TP VOL 01 THE GATHERING (N52)

EAST OF WEST TP VOL 05 ALL THESE SECRETS

FIGHT CLUB 2 HC (MR)

FINAL CRISIS TP NEW EDITION

FLASH TP VOL 01 LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE (REBIRTH)

FLASH TP VOL 01 MOVE FORWARD (N52)

FLASH TP VOL 02 ROGUES REVOLUTION (N52)

FLASH TP VOL 03 GORILLA WARFARE (N52)

FLASH TP VOL 04 REVERSE (N52)

FLASH TP VOL 06 OUT OF TIME

FLASH TP VOL 07 SAVAGE WORLD

FROM HELL TP (MR)

GOTG BY ABNETT AND LANNING COMPLETE COLL TP VOL 01

GOTG BY ABNETT AND LANNING COMPLETE COLL TP VOL 02

GOTHAM ACADEMY TP VOL 02 CALAMITY

GREAT PACIFIC TP VOL 01 TRASHED (MR)

GUARDIANS OF GALAXY BEST STORY EVER TP

GUARDIANS OF GALAXY TP VOL 02 ANGELA

HARLEY QUINN HC VOL 02 POWER OUTAGE (N52)

HARLEY QUINN TP VOL 01 HOT IN THE CITY (N52)

HARROW COUNTY TP VOL 04 FAMILY TREE

HEAD LOPPER TP VOL 01 ISLAND OR A PLAGUE OF BEASTS (MR)

HELLBLAZER TP VOL 01 THE POISON TRUTH (REBIRTH)

HELLBLAZER TP VOL 02 THE DEVIL YOU KNOW NEW ED (MR)

HELLBOY TP VOL 02 WAKE THE DEVIL (6TH PTG)

I AM A HERO OMNIBUS TP VOL 01

IN REAL LIFE GN

INCREDIBLE HULK EPIC COLLECTION TP MAN OR MONSTER

INDESTRUCTIBLE HULK TP VOL 01 AGENT OF SHIELD

INJECTION TP VOL 01 (MR)

INJUSTICE GODS AMONG US HC VOL 01

INJUSTICE GODS AMONG US YEAR FIVE TP VOL 01

INJUSTICE GODS AMONG US YEAR FOUR TP VOL 01

INJUSTICE GODS AMONG US YEAR THREE TP VOL 01

INJUSTICE GODS AMONG US YEAR THREE TP VOL 02

INVINCIBLE HC VOL 03 ULTIMATE COLL

JOKER ENDGAME TP

JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA TP VOL 02 SURVIVORS OF EVIL (N52)

JUSTICE LEAGUE TP VOL 01 ORIGIN (N52)

LOW TP VOL 01 THE DELIRIUM OF HOPE (MR)

LULU ANEW HC

LUMBERJANES TP VOL 02

MARVEL ZOMBIES TP VOL 01 SPIDER-MAN COVER

MASTERS OF SPANISH COMIC BOOK ART HC

MIDNIGHTER TP VOL 01 OUT

MIGHTY MORPHIN POWER RANGERS TP VOL 01

MS MARVEL TP VOL 05 SUPER FAMOUS

MY LITTLE PONY TP VOL 01 THE MAGIC BEGINS

NEW SUICIDE SQUAD TP VOL 02 MONSTERS

PAPER GIRLS TP VOL 01

PATSY WALKER AKA HELLCAT TP VOL 01 HOOKED ON FELINE

POWER MAN AND IRON FIST TP VOL 01 BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN

PREACHER TP BOOK 04 (MR)

PRIDE & PREJUDICE MANGA CLASSICS GN

PRIDE OF BAGHDAD SC (MR)

PROMETHEUS FIRE & STONE TP

PUNISHER MAX TP COMPLETE COLLECTION VOL 03 (MR)

PUNISHER MAX TP COMPLETE COLLECTION VOL 04 (MR)

RAT QUEENS TP VOL 01 SASS & SORCERY (MR)

RAT QUEENS TP VOL 03 DEMONS (MR)

RED HOOD ARSENAL TP VOL 01 OPEN FOR BUSINESS

RED RIDING HOOD RED AGENT TP

ROBYN HOOD ONGOING TP VOL 02 MONSTERS IN THE DARK

SABRINA CHILLING ADVENTURES TP VOL 01 (MR)

SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING TP BOOK 02 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 01 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 02 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 03 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 05 (MR)

SANDMAN TP VOL 05 A GAME OF YOU NEW ED (MR)

SERENITY ADULT COLORING BOOK TP

SMURFS GN VOL 20 DOCTOR SMURF

STAR WARS DARTH VADER HC VOL 01

STAR WARS DARTH VADER TP VOL 01 VADER

STAR WARS DARTH VADER TP VOL 02 SHADOWS AND SECRETS

STAR WARS DARTH VADER TP VOL 03 SHU TORUN WAR

STAR WARS DARTH VADER TP VOL 04 END OF GAMES

STORYTELLER GN

SUNSTONE OGN VOL 02 (MR)

TEEN TITANS TP VOL 01 ITS OUR RIGHT TO FIGHT (N52)

THERES A DEMON LORD ON FLOOR GN VOL 01

THOR SON OF ASGARD TP

THOR TP VOL 01 GODDESS OF THUNDER

TITANS TP VOL 01 THE RETURN OF WALLY WEST (REBIRTH)

TMNT ONGOING (IDW) COLL HC VOL 02

TRANSFORMERS VS GI JOE TP VOL 01

TRANSMETROPOLITAN TP VOL 02 LUST FOR LIFE NEW ED (MR)

UNBEATABLE SQUIRREL GIRL TP VOL 03 SQUIRREL REALLY GOT ME NO

UNBEATABLE SQUIRREL GIRL TP VOL 05 ONLY SQUIRREL IN WORLD

VELVET TP VOL 02 THE SECRET LIVES OF DEAD MEN (MR)

WALKING DEAD COMPENDIUM TP VOL 01 (MR)

WALKING DEAD COMPENDIUM TP VOL 03 (MR)

WALKING DEAD HC VOL 05

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 01 DAYS GONE BYE

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 02 MILES BEHIND US (NEW PTG)

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 03 SAFETY BEHIND BARS

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 11 FEAR THE HUNTERS (MR)

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 12 LIFE AMONG THEM

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 13 TOO FAR GONE (MR)

WAYWARD TP VOL 01 STRING THEORY (MR)

WOLVERINE OLD MAN LOGAN TP VOL 03 LAST RONIN

WONDER WOMAN EARTH ONE HC VOL 01

WONDER WOMAN TP VOL 04 WAR (N52)

Y THE LAST MAN TP BOOK 04 (MR)

YO-KAI WATCH GN VOL 04

DC DESIGNER SERIES BOMBSHELLS BATWOMAN AF

COMICARE CURRENT BOARDS (SOLD IN 100)

COMICARE SHORT COMIC BOX (SOLD IN 10)

#featured

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traincat · 4 years

Note

Hello hello hello, I was going thro CBR forum and I came across a good question. How good is MJ acting career? Is a famous actress or a newbie? How popular is Mary Jane Watson in-universe? Stay safe 👊

Thank you! Hope you’re staying safe, too. I’m in Jersey so we’re pretty much just in lock down mode.

MJ’s acting career has its ups and downs due to, in my personal opinion, story beats requiring drama (Peter and/or MJ having Job Trouble) and also due to a large percentage of Marvel writers either not knowing or being uninterested in how fame works. Imho Mary Jane should be more famous than she’s usually depicted as -- for instance, I don’t think it should have been entirely possible for her to be as under the radar as she was during Back in Black, a storyline I otherwise love but that does depend pretty heavily on nobody recognizing Mary Jane’s face -- but how famous she’s depicted can vary by writer. I can do a timeline of her career, if that’s helpful.

She works as a fashion model in her late teens through her early 20s; she’s enrolled at ESU during this period but doesn’t graduate and she’s making enough money modeling that she’s able to afford a fairly chic apartment. After her marriage to Peter, her modeling career is tanked by Jonathan Caesar, a rich man who kidnaps Mary Jane. After he’s imprisoned, he pulls string to make sure major clients won’t hire her. She floats the idea of opening her own model agency but later gets a job acting in the soap opera “Secret Hospital” as a character named Sybil.

(Web of Spider-Man #77) The role appears to have been fairly popular/well-known, and she’s a fairly recognizable New York face during this point. (This has its downsides, like when a stalker who gets obsessed with her.) She also has a couple of movie offers around this time. She takes some but refuses others, including a big action movie that would have required her to do a nude scene which she and Peter argued over. Eventually MJ’s soap opera appearances dried up, and at this point we meander our way into the Clone Saga. MJ gets pregnant and she and Peter move to Portland. She briefly works at as a maternity model back in New York. After she loses the baby, she re-enrolls at ESU as an undergrad, pursuing a degree in psychology, although she doesn’t graduate and instead chooses to go back to modeling.

(Sensational Spider-Man #33)

MJ’s renewed modeling career gains a lot of steam, but suffers major pitfalls in the form of money mismanagement and also the fact that she gets kidnapped and has her death publicly faked. It’s a long story. When she’s reunited with Peter and the world, there are rumors about her disappearance being a publicity stunt.

(ASM Annual 2001) Traumatized by her recent experience, Mary Jane separates from Peter and leaves New York for Los Angeles, where she embarks on what appears to be at the very least a moderately successful acting and modeling career.

(ASM v2 #46) She stars as the love interest in the superhero flick Lobster Man but worries she’s only getting acting jobs because of her looks instead of her acting talents. Now reunited with Peter and living in New York again, she starts acting in off-Broadway plays in an attempt to gain recognition as a more serious actress.

(ASM #509) She’s also rumored by the tabloids to be having an affair with Tony Stark at this point in time when she’s caught going in the Avengers Tower late at night while she and Peter are temporarily living there after their apartment is burned down. It’s worth noting that both she and Tony have tabloid level name brand recognition at this point, so she’s fairly high profile at this point in time. This stage of her career comes crashing down in the aftermath of both Peter’s unmasking and Civil War. This the point where we hit the marriage deal with devil, where Peter and Mary Jane’s marriage is traded to Mephisto in exchange for Aunt May’s life and the restoration of Peter’s secret identity. There’s no good way to say that but that’s what happened. Mary Jane is back in Hollywood at this point in time, acting and dating a major Hollywood star. She’s fairly recognizable, at least partially still for Secret Hospital.

(ASM #561)

(ASM #605) Mary Jane has a couple of different jobs at this point -- she does some television hosting for a bit, and then owns and operates a night club, before ending up as Iron Man’s assistant because Bendis said so. In general this period is a little messy. Currently Mary Jane is acting again, starring in a superhero movie written and directed by Mysterio about Mysterio, in the Amazing Mary Jane #1-5 (the filming) and #6-? (current, the promotion). I have to admit I think I’d like it more if the comic seemed to actually want to be about Mary Jane and delve into her history It feels like a wasted opportunity, a far less well-written rehash of the Lobster Man plot instead of taking the opportunity to address that Mary Jane is 30-year-old woman in a hugely sexist industry obsessed with youth who is making what is at least a third try at becoming a major name in Hollywood. But then I guess we wouldn’t get to talk about Mysterio’s feelings and how he deserves to make a movie because he’s a man with an artistic vision half as much. You might be able to tell I haven’t really enjoyed this book so far. And that’s where we are currently in Mary Jane’s acting career. So she’s definitely not a newbie, despite how Amazing Mary Jane’s promotional material has been phrasing things as her “big break” -- she’s had at least several Hollywood break ins already, done theater work, and had a prolific modeling career. She is, if not a household name, than a recognizable face and name with some amount of a fan following at the very least. I hope that helps!

#traincat talks comics #*replies #Anonymous

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nfcomics · 7 years

Photo

Night Flight Comics—6222 South State Street Latest Arrivals: Wednesday—January 25th 2017

ACTION COMICS #972 ACTION COMICS #972 VAR ED ALIENS 30TH ANNIVERSARY ORIGINAL COMICS SERIES HC [R] ALIENS DEFIANCE #9 ALIENS DEFIANCE TP VOL 01 ALIENS MINIMATES DLX SPACE JOCKEY SET ALIENS OMNIBUS TP VOL 02 [R] ALIENS VS PREDATOR LIFE AND DEATH #2 ALL NEW WOLVERINE #16 BENGAL CONNECTING D VAR [R] AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #23 CC [R] ANIMOSITY THE RISE #1 ONE SHOT AQUAMAN TP VOL 01 THE DROWNING (REBIRTH) [R] AVATAR LAST AIRBENDER TP VOL 01 PROMISE PART 1 [R] AVATAR LAST AIRBENDER TP VOL 14 NORTH SOUTH PART 2 AVENGERS #1.MU BACK TO THE FUTURE BIFF TO THE FUTURE #1 (OF 6) BACK TO THE FUTURE BIFF TO THE FUTURE #1 (OF 6) SUB BATGIRL #7 BATGIRL #7 VAR ED BATMAN 66 MEETS WONDER WOMAN 77 #1 (OF 6)

BATMAN 66 MEETS WONDER WOMAN 77 #1 (OF 6) VAR ED BATMAN ARKHAM ASYLUM 25TH ANNIV DLX ED HC [R] BATMAN ARKHAM ASYLUM 25TH ANNIV DLX ED TP [R] BATMAN HC VOL 05 ZERO YEAR DARK CITY (N52) [R] BATMAN BEYOND #4 BATMAN BEYOND #4 VAR ED BATMAN DARK KNIGHT RETURNS TP—Frank Miller [R] BATMAN TMNT ADVENTURES #3 (OF 6) BATMAN TMNT ADVENTURES #3 (OF 6) VAR BATMAN TMNT ADVENTURES #3 (OF 6) SUB VAR BELLADONNA #4 NUDE CVR BETTY BOOP #4 (OF 4) CVR B BONE BLACK EYED KIDS #2 [R] BLACK MONDAY MURDERS TP VOL 01 ALL HAIL GOD MAMMON BLACK PANTHER #10 BLACK PANTHER #10 RIVERA CONNECTING F VAR BLOODSHOT USA #4 (OF 4) CVR A BRAITHWAITE BLOODSHOT USA #4 (OF 4) CVR B HENRY BLOODSHOT USA #4 (OF 4) CVR C JOHNSON BLUE BEETLE #5 BLUE BEETLE #5 VAR ED BOYS TP VOL 02 GET SOME [R] BRIGGS LAND #6 BTVS SEASON 11 #3 MAIN MORRIS CVR BTVS SEASON 11 #3 VAR ISAACS CVR CAPTAIN AMERICA STEVE ROGERS #10 CAPTAIN AMERICA STEVE ROGERS TP VOL 01 HAIL HYDRA [R] CARNAGE #14 [R] CARNAGE #16 CHEW TP VOL 01 [R] CINDERELLA SERIAL KILLER PRINCESS #2 CVR A PANTALE CINDERELLA SERIAL KILLER PRINCESS #2 CVR B MALSUNI CINDERELLA SERIAL KILLER PRINCESS #2 CVR C RUIZ CIVIL WAR II #7 (OF 8) [R] CIVIL WAR II OATH #1 CIVIL WAR II OATH #1 ALBUQUERQUE VAR CLONE CONSPIRACY #1, #2, #3 (OF 5) [R] CLONE CONSPIRACY #4 (OF 5) CC [R] COMIC BOOK HISTORY OF COMICS #3 (OF 6) COMIC BOOK HISTORY OF COMICS #3 (OF 6) SUB CONAN THE SLAYER #6 CONAN OMNIBUS TP VOL 01 BIRTH OF LEGEND [R] DANTE ONE-SHOT DAREDEVIL #16 DARK SOULS WINTERS SPITE #3 (OF 4) CVR A QUAH DEAD INSIDE #2 (OF 5) DEADPOOL #25 DEADPOOL BEGINNINGS OMNIBUS HC DEADPOOL BY DANIEL WAY COMPLETE COLL TP VOL 02, VOL 03 [R] DEADPOOL TP VOL 06 ORIGINAL SIN [R] DEADPOOL TP VOL 08 ALL GOOD THINGS [R] DEADPOOLS SECRET SECRET WARS TP [R] DEATHSTROKE #11 DEATHSTROKE #11 VAR ED DEPT H #10 DETECTIVE COMICS #948 [R] DETECTIVE COMICS #949 DETECTIVE COMICS #949 VAR ED DISNEY DARKWING DUCK #7 DIVINITY III STALINVERSE #1 2ND PTG DIVINITY III STALINVERSE #2 CVR A DJURDJEVIC DOCTOR STRANGE #16 DOCTOR STRANGE SORCERERS SUPREME #4 [R] DOCTOR WHO 10TH YEAR THREE #1 CVR A BURNS [R] DOOM PATROL #4 DOOM PATROL #4 VAR ED ELFQUEST FINAL QUEST #18 ENCHANTED TIKI ROOM #4 (OF 5) ENCHANTED TIKI ROOM #4 (OF 5) CHRISTOPHER AF ENCHANTED TIKI ROOM #4 (OF 5) GRANDT CONNECTING VAR ETHER #3 EXTRAORDINARY X-MEN #18 IVX FLASH #15 FLASH #15 VAR ED FROSTBITE #5 (OF 6) FUTURE QUEST #9 GARTH ENNIS RED TEAM DOUBLE TAP #7 (OF 9) GFT GRIMM TALES OF TERROR VOL 3 #1 A CVR WATSON GFT GRIMM TALES OF TERROR VOL 3 #1 B CVR BIFULCO GFT GRIMM TALES OF TERROR VOL 3 #1 C CVR CASAS GHOST RIDER #3 GI JOE (2016) #2 GI JOE (2016) #2 ARTIST ED VAR GI JOE (2016) #2 SUB VAR GI JOE A REAL AMERICAN HERO #236 GI JOE A REAL AMERICAN HERO #236 SUB VAR GREEN LANTERNS TP VOL 01 RAGE PLANET (REBIRTH) GRIMM FAIRY TALES #2 CVR A JOHNSON GRIMM FAIRY TALES #2 CVR B LUIS GRIMM FAIRY TALES #2 CVR C OTERO GRIMM FAIRY TALES #2 CVR D BIFULCO GRIMM FAIRY TALES OMNIBUS TP VOL 02 [R] GRIMM V2 #4 CVR A SANAPO [R] GRIMM V2 #5 (OF 5) CVR A SANAPO GRIMM V2 #5 (OF 5) CVR B STRAHM MASK GUIDE TO MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE CAP AMERICIA CI HAL JORDAN AND THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS #7 [R] HAL JORDAN AND THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS #13 HAL JORDAN AND THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS #13 VAR ED HARROW COUNTY #20 HE MAN THUNDERCATS #1 (OF 6) 2ND PTG HEAVY METAL #284 CVR A ROYO [R] HELLBLAZER #6 HELLBLAZER #6 VAR ED HELLBOY WINTER SPECIAL 2017 ONE SHOT HELLCHILD THE UNHOLY #3 CVR A SILVA HELLCHILD THE UNHOLY #3 CVR B RIVEIRO HELLCHILD THE UNHOLY #3 CVR C ABEL HILLBILLY #5 HORIZON TP VOL 01 [R] HULK #2 IMAGE FIRSTS I HATE FAIRYLAND #1 [R] INFAMOUS IRON MAN #4 ISLAND #14 IVX #2 (OF 6) SYAF INHUMANS VAR [R] IVX #3 (OF 6) IVX #3 (OF 6) CHO VAR IVX #3 (OF 6) DODSON INHUMANS VAR IVX #3 (OF 6) SYAF X-MEN VAR IMAGE FIRSTS MONSTRESS #1 [R] JASON SHIGA DEMON SC GN [R] JEM & THE HOLOGRAMS #23 SUB VAR JESSICA JONES #3 [R] JIM HENSON STORYTELLER GIANTS #2 [R] JUST THE TIPS HC [R] JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA KILLER FROST REBIRTH #1 JUSTICE LEAGUE POWER RANGERS #1 (OF 6) [R] JUSTICE LEAGUE POWER RANGERS #1 (OF 6) GREEN LANTERN JUSTICE LEAGUE SUICIDE SQUAD #2 (OF 6) [R] JUSTICE LEAGUE SUICIDE SQUAD #6 (OF 6) JUSTICE LEAGUE SUICIDE SQUAD #6 (OF 6) CONNER VAR JUSTICE LEAGUE SUICIDE SQUAD #6 (OF 6) GARCIA LOPE KAMANDI CHALLENGE #1 (OF 12) KAMANDI CHALLENGE #1 (OF 12) EAGLESHAM VAR ED KAMANDI CHALLENGE #1 (OF 12) GIFFEN VAR ED KILL OR BE KILLED #4 [R] KISS DEMON #1 (OF 4) CVR A STRAHM KISS DEMON #1 (OF 4) CVR B MANDRAKE HOMAGE KISS DEMON #1 (OF 4) CVR C ADAMS 8 BIT KISS DEMON #1 (OF 4) CVR D PHOTO LETTER 44 #29 LETTER 44 TP VOL 04 SAVIORS LOONEY TUNES #235 LOOSE ENDS #1 (OF 4) LOVE & ROCKETS MAGAZINE #1 [R] LOVE HC VOL 04 THE DINOSAUR MARVEL SELECT DR STRANGE MOVIE AF MARVEL TSUM TSUM TAKEOVER TP MARVEL UNIVERSE ULT SPIDER-MAN VS SINISTER SIX #7 MOON GIRL AND DEVIL DINOSAUR #15 MY LITTLE PONY FRIENDS FOREVER #36 MY LITTLE PONY FRIENDS FOREVER #36 SUB VAR NEIL GAIMANS FORBIDDEN BRIDES SLAVES DREAD DESIRE NEW SUPER MAN #7 VAR ED [R] NEWTYPE NOV 2016 [R] NIGHTWING TP VOL 01 BETTER THAN BATMAN (REBIRTH) ODYSSEY OF THE AMAZONS #1 (OF 6) ODYSSEY OF THE AMAZONS #1 (OF 6) VAR ED ONE PUNCH MAN GN VOL 01 [R] OPTIMUS PRIME #3 OPTIMUS PRIME #3 ARTIST ED VAR OPTIMUS PRIME #3 SUB VAR OVER GARDEN WALL ONGOING #10 SUB OSBORNE PATHFINDER WORLDSCAPE #4 (OF 6) CVR B MANDRAKE PATHFINDER WORLDSCAPE #4 (OF 6) CVR C EXC SUB POP BTAS JOKER VINYL FIG [R] POP BTAS POISON IVY VINYL FIG [R] POP CONAN THE BARBARIAN CONAN VINYL FIG [R] POP IZOMBIE OLIVIA MOORE W/GLASSES VINYL FIG [R] POP LABYRINTH JARETH VINYL FIG [R] PREDATOR OMNIBUS TP VOL 01 [R] PROVIDENCE #1, #2 (OF 12) DREAMSCAPE WRAP CVR [R] POWER RANGERS PINK #6 PROWLER #4 CC PUNISHER #8 PUNISHER MAX COMPLETE COLLECTION TP VOL 05 REBORN #4 CVR A CAPULLO REBORN #4 CVR B CAPULO RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #6 [R] RED SONJA #1 CVR C PETERSON [R] REVIVAL #46 RICK & MORTY LIL POOPY SUPERSTAR #1, #5 (OF 5) [R] RICK & MORTY #22 RICK & MORTY #22 VAR BING ROCK & ROLL BIOGRAPHIES WHITE ZOMBIE [R] SAGA #42 SCOOBY DOO TEAM UP #22 SERENITY NO POWER IN THE VERSE #4 (OF 6) MAIN SANT SERENITY NO POWER IN THE VERSE #4 (OF 6) VAR JEANTY SHADOWS ON THE GRAVE #1 [R] SHE WOLF #5 SIMPSONS COMICS EXPLOSION #3 [R] SIMPSONS COMICS KNOCKOUT GN [R] SIMPSONS ILLUSTRATED #27 SIN CITY MAGNET SET #2 [R] SIN CITY PLAYING CARDS (2ND ED) SIXPACK & DOGWELDER HARD-TRAVELIN HEROZ #6 (OF 6) SKYBOURNE #1 [R] SKYBOURNE #3 SLAPSTICK #2 [R] SLAYER REPENTLESS #1 (OF 3) MAIN FABRY CVR SLAYER REPENTLESS #1 (OF 3) VAR POWELL CVR SOLO #4 SOUTHERN BASTARDS #16 CVR A LATOUR [R] SPIDER-GWEN #16 NOW [R] SPIDER-MAN DEADPOOL #1.MU SPIDER-WOMAN #15 STAR TREK GREEN LANTERN VOL 2 #2 STAR TREK GREEN LANTERN VOL 2 #2 ARTIST ED VAR STAR WARS #27 STAR WARS #27 CHRISTOPHER AF VAR STAR WARS DOCTOR APHRA #1, #3 [R] STARFIRE TP VOL 02 A MATTER OF TIME STRAIN MR QUINLAN VAMPIRE HUNTER #5 (OF 5) [R] SUICIDE SQUAD #10 (JL SS) SUICIDE SQUAD #10 VAR ED (JL SS) SURGEON X #5 TAROT WITCH OF THE BLACK ROSE #102 TARZAN ON THE PLANET OF THE APES #5 (OF 5) TEEN TITANS #4 TEEN TITANS #4 VAR ED THANOS #3 THE MUMMY (HAMMER) #3 (OF 5) CVR A MCCREA THIEF OF THIEVES TP VOL 06 THUNDERBOLTS #9 TITANS #7 VAR ED [R] TMNT ONGOING #66 TMNT ONGOING #66 ARTIST ED VAR TOMB RAIDER 2016 #12 TOTALLY AWESOME HULK #15 NOW UNCANNY X-MEN #17 CHOI VAR IVX [R] UNCANNY X-MEN SUPERIOR TP VOL 03 WAKING FROM DREAM UNHOLY #1 ADULT EXTREME CVR UNHOLY #1 FEMME FATALE NUDE CVR UNWORTHY THOR #2 (OF 5) 2ND PTG COIPEL VAR VAMPBLADE #12 CVR A YOUNG VENOM #3 [R] WARHAMMER 40000 WILL OF IRON #4 (OF 4) CVR A PERCI WARLORDS OF APPALACHIA #4 WAYWARD #20 CVR A CUMMINGS & BONVILLAIN WAYWARD #20 CVR B SCHANK WONDER WOMAN #15 WONDER WOMAN #15 VAR ED WONDER WOMAN 77 BIONIC WOMAN #2 (OF 6) CVR A STAGG WONDER WOMAN 77 BIONIC WOMAN #2 (OF 6) CVR B LOPRE WORLD WAR X #2 (OF 6) CVR B PERCIVAL ZOMBIE TRAMP ONGOING #31 CVR D MENDOZA RISQUE

Night Flight Comics—6222 South State Street Last Arrivals: Wednesday—January 25th 2017

#New Comics Wednesday • January 25th 2017 #Night Flight Comics

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 5 years

Text

FNSM v2 #5 Thoughts

Very mixed feelings.

On the one hand beautiful art, some nice humour, a story rooted in being down to Earth and relatable.

On the other hand...eh....

Okay so despite the cover...there was precious little Peter/Aunt May conversations in this issue. Unlike JMS’ classic ‘The Conversation’ Tom Taylor apparently felt that rather than actually SEEING Aunt May tell Peter she has cancer and seeing the moment he finds out we’d just skip over that.

Er....okay....not sure that’s the best choice.

The issue itself is iffy with Spider-Man’s morality and raises questions within the world building of Spider-Man and the Marvel universe as a whole.

Spider-Man initially says no he can’t come to be there for Aunt May when she has her first round of chemotherapy. He DOES show up, which is responsible and in character for Peter.

But I don’t really get him...claiming he wasn’t. That was not true to his character. You could argue that it wasn’t that Peter was being sincere when he told May he had a lot going on and maybe couldn’t make it, but was just saying that because he was planning another way to help her which wouldn’t require chemo.

But...that doesn’t really add up. Why say that to her when it’d obviously make you look terrible and probably hurt her feelings. If your loving mother says she is dying and needs horrible medical treatment to survive and wants you to be there, even if you have a possible alternative to that treatment, just say you will show up to make them feel better and reassured for God’s sake.

Spider-Man breaking the kid’s wrist, I can understand because he was emotional and made a mistake. Happens to the best of us.

Him stealing the car...eh....I dunno. I guess...I can just about buy it because he related to the kid and realized if this kid was being abused and that if he handed him over to the authorities it would seriously hurt his future, possibly result in major problems with his homelife if he doesn’t wind up in jail, where he’d be eaten alive.

So breaking the law for the over all greater good...okay. Although they didn’t really address what he did with the car considering it was covered in forensic evidence probably and he couldn’t leave it webbed up indefinitely. When his webbing dissolves the car would fall causes damage and maybe killing someone.

More significantly there was no indication as to what exactly the plan was for the kid AFTER he got better. He was given a magical cast by Doctor Strange to help him heal (seriously, Doctor Strange’s magic can’t even fix a broken wrist but it can apparently heal Mary Jane after a criminal assaulted her in OMIT?) but then what? He goes home wounded to a man who’s already beating him up?

The biggest problem though is that Spider-Man consults Doctor Strange about his Aunt’s condition.

This is a minefield.

When you have a shared universe like the Marvel universe you have to suspend your disbelief because otherwise most problems do not add up.

Spider-Man could fix anything by asking the Avengers, or F4 or Doctor Strange for help. In the 1990s he never consulted anyone for help with Aunt May when she went into a stroke induced coma for example. That wasn’t bad storytelling because the books never roped in people who could believably have helped her in that situation even though realistically Spider-Man would have done so.

In individual titles the wider Marvel universe only exists up to a point, that point being the extent to which a specific story wishes to acknowledge it and/or it contradicts major, major world building facets of the Marvel universe. For example a Spider-Man story shouldn’t have Spider-Man handwave a blackout in NYC because other heroes exist so it doesn’t matter, but equally it shouldn’t try and present a character who effectively does what the Living Tribunal does but pretends the Living Tribunal doesn’t exist if you catch my drift.

One More Day stepped into this minefield big time. It actively acknowledged the wider Marvel universe and presented it as being incapable of pulling aunt may from her coma and healing her bullet wound. Which is ridiculous there would be numerous alternate solutions.

This story in acknowledging Doctor Strange also has a similar problem even though it doesn’t feature as much of the wider Marvel Universe. Doctor Strange cannot heal cancer. Okay but...Spider-Man knows there are ways to literally resurrect people. He knows cloning exists. He knows you can transfer minds between cloned bodies. There are countless solutions to this problem the story just ignores both within Spider-Man’s own particular history and within the history of the wider Marvel universe.

Maybe I need to sit on this for a little longer but it feels very disingenuous.

As for the swipe made against OMD, that was nice but...it’s also kind of...I dunno. You cannot write this story, in this context, and acknowledge OMD and then just not deliver.

Just don’t touch the topic then.

I dunno I feel very adrift with the topic. Should you lean towards the concept of Spider-Man as realistic and therefore treat cancer realistically and by extension suspect disbelief. Or should you lean towards the relative realism of Spider-Man history which involves having outs for this?

I guess part of the difference between this story and OMD is that OMD was ignoring obvious solutions in Spider-Man history and Marvel history to force the character to by extension make an out of character decision and all towards a creatively damaging and reductive purpose.

Like if this story was ignoring Spider-Man’s knowledge of clones and resurrection methods for the sake of telling a realistic and relatable life story that was also creatively enriching and additive then...maybe that’s okay.

#Spider-Man #Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #doctor strange #Peter Parker #Aunt may #may parker

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impactcomicscbr · 7 years

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NEW STUFF FRIDAY 27th JANUARY 2017

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BAKUMAN GN VOL 09

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BATMAN 66 TP VOL 02

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BLACKEST NIGHT TP

BOYS TP VOL 09 BIG RIDE (MR)

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DEADPOOL VS THANOS TP

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DRAGON AGE HC VOL 02 THOSE WHO SPEAK

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FIRESTORM THE NUCLEAR MAN UNITED WE FALL TP

GIRL WHO PLAYED WITH FIRE TP (MR)

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GOLEM GN

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HAWKEYE TP VOL 06 HAWKEYES

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HES MY ONLY VAMPIRE GN VOL 01

HUCK TP

ID GN (MR)

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LOCKE & KEY COVERS OF GABRIEL RODRIGUEZ HC

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MANIFEST DESTINY TP VOL 01

MARVEL UNIVERSE ALL NEW AVENGERS ASSEMBLE DIGEST TP VOL 01

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MEGATOKYO OMNIBUS TP VOL 02

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MICKEY & DONALD HC SEARCH FOR ZODIAC STONE

MONSTER MUSUME GN VOL 05 (MR)

MONSTER MUSUME GN VOL 06 (MR)

MONSTRESS TP VOL 01 (MR)

MOON GIRL AND DEVIL DINOSAUR TP VOL 01 BFF

MOON KNIGHT TP VOL 01 FROM DEAD

MOON KNIGHT TP VOL 01 LUNATIC

MY LITTLE PONY DIGEST TP VOL 01

MY LITTLE PONY FRIENDS FOREVER TP VOL 01

MY MONSTER SECRET GN VOL 04 (MR)

NEMO ROSES OF BERLIN HC (MR)

NIGHTWING TP VOL 01 TRAPS AND TRAPEZES (N52)

NIGHTWING TP VOL 04 SECOND CITY (N52)

NOVA TP VOL 03 NOVA CORPSE

NOVA TP VOL 05 AXIS

NOVA TP VOL 06 HOMECOMING

OUTCAST BY KIRKMAN & AZACETA TP VOL 03 LITTLE LIGHT (MR)

PATSY WALKER AKA HELLCAT TP VOL 01 HOOKED ON FELINE

PERSONA 3 GN VOL 02

POISON IVY CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH TP

POWER GIRL POWER TRIP TP

PREACHER TP BOOK 03 (MR)

PREACHER TP BOOK 05 (MR)

PRINCESS PRINCESS EVER AFTER HC

PROMETHEUS HC COMPLETE FIRE & STONE

PUNISHER MAX TP COMPLETE COLLECTION VOL 01 (MR)

RING OF THE SEVEN WORLDS GN

SAGA DLX ED HC VOL 01

SAGA TP VOL 01 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 02 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 04 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 05 (MR)

SAGA TP VOL 06 (MR)

SANDMAN OVERTURE DELUXE ED HC (MR)

SANDMAN THE DREAM HUNTERS HC (MR)

SATANS HOLLOW HC

SCOTT PILGRIM COLOR HC VOL 01 (OF 6)

SECRET SIX TP VOL 02 THE GAUNTLET

SERENITY ADULT COLORING BOOK TP

SHE-HULK BY SLOTT TP VOL 01 COMPLETE COLLECTION

SHERIFF OF BABYLON TP VOL 01 BANG BANG BANG (MR)

SILK TP VOL 00 LIFE AND TIMES OF CINDY MOON

SIMPSONS TREEHOUSE OF HORROR TP VOL 06 BEYOND THE GRAVE

SNOOPY COWABUNGA TP

SPIDER-WOMEN TP

STAR WARS DARTH VADER TP VOL 01 VADER

STAR WARS DARTH VADER TP VOL 02 SHADOWS AND SECRETS

STAR WARS DARTH VADER TP VOL 03 SHU TORUN WAR

STAR WARS KANAN OMNIBUS HC

STAR WARS LITTLE GOLDEN BOOK EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

STAR WARS LITTLE GOLDEN BOOK NEW HOPE

STAR WARS MARVEL YRS OMNIBUS HC VOL 01 CHAYKIN COVER

STAR WARS TP CHEWBACCA

STAR WARS TP LANDO

STAR WARS TP VADER DOWN

STRANGE TALENT OF LUTHER STRODE TP VOL 01 (MR)

SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN TP VOL 03 NO ESCAPE

SUPERMAN RED SON TP NEW EDITION

SUPERMAN TP VOL 01 WHAT PRICE TOMORROW (N52)

SUPERMAN WONDER WOMAN TP VOL 01 POWER COUPLE (N52)

SUPERMAN WONDER WOMAN TP VOL 02 WAR AND PEACE

TEEN TITANS GO TP VOL 01 PARTY PARTY

TEEN TITANS TP VOL 01 ITS OUR RIGHT TO FIGHT (N52)

TOKYO GHOST TP VOL 01 ATOMIC GARDEN (MR)

US JUDGE DREDD COMP CASE FILES TP VOL 05

USAGI YOJIMBO SAGA TP VOL 07

V FOR VENDETTA NEW EDITION TP (MR)

VELVET TP VOL 02 THE SECRET LIVES OF DEAD MEN (MR)

VENOM BY REMENDER COMPLETE COLLECTION TP VOL 01

VENOM BY REMENDER COMPLETE COLLECTION TP VOL 02

VENOM SPACE KNIGHT TP VOL 02 ENEMIES AND ALLIES

VISION TP VOL 01 LITTLE WORSE THAN MAN

VOLTRON LEGENDARY DEFENDER TP VOL 01

WALKING DEAD COMPENDIUM TP VOL 02 (MR)

WALKING DEAD HC VOL 02 (MR)

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 01 DAYS GONE BYE

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 02 MILES BEHIND US (NEW PTG)

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 04 HEARTS DESIRE

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 05 BEST DEFENSE (NEW PTG)

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 06 SORROWFUL LIFE (NEW PTG) (SEP088207)

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 07 THE CALM BEFORE

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 08 MADE TO SUFFER (MR)

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 12 LIFE AMONG THEM

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 18 WHAT COMES AFTER

WALKING DEAD TP VOL 22 A NEW BEGINNING (MR)

WARHAMMER 40K EXTERMINATUS GN

WARHAMMER 40K MACRAGGES HONOUR HC GN

WARHAMMER FORGE OF WAR GN

WATCHMEN TP INTERNATIONAL EDITION NEW ED

WICKED & DIVINE TP VOL 01 THE FAUST ACT (MR)

WICKED & DIVINE TP VOL 04 RISING ACTION (MR)

WITCHER TP VOL 02 FOX CHILDREN

WONDER WOMAN THE GOLDEN AGE OMNIBUS HC VOL 01

WONDER WOMAN TP VOL 07 WAR TORN

Y THE LAST MAN TP BOOK 02 (MR)

Y THE LAST MAN TP BOOK 03 (MR)

YOUNG AVENGERS BY HEINBERG AND CHEUNG COMPLETE COLL TP

DC COMICS DESIGNER SER CAPULLO SURVIVAL GEAR BATMAN AF

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