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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 1 year

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This might be a hot take but I've gotta get this off my chest:

I have seen so many times in the past two years the point being made by a particular section of the fandom that Sam was the hero of SPN, the "Luke Skywalker" of the series as Kripke himself stated, and that the finale ending made sense for not only Sam getting to live but also for Dean's ending. And in the very same breath, it's mentioned that the show was always about the brothers, no one else, that's what Kripke always wanted, etc., but this argument is always made from a very pro-Sam slanted/skewed anti-ship (and sometimes anti-Dean) point of view without taking into consideration of just how much the story of SPN evolved even before Kripke left the show.

Like say what you will about Sam being the hero of the story, and I'm not going to disagree with you about that being Kripke's original intention because you're right. Sam was the main protagonist; that's clear from the outset of the series. The whole first season is everything being told from Sam's POV. It's evident in every single episode in how each case has resolution thanks to Sam. He is made to be the hero. The whole arc of season 1 is about Sam being dragged back into this world due to his desire for revenge for what happened to Jessica which turns into something more aka Sam is naturally a hunter and he wants to help people/help his family->Dean. It's even Sam in the season finale that chooses a different way compared to John's quest for revenge by choosing Dean/his family over his revenge.

So, yes, you're right when you say in the beginning of the series that Sam was the hero/main protagonist. Absolutely. But what is not being mentioned/realized is that somewhere along the way, during Kripke's era, Dean's own story within the series became just as integral to the main story like Sam's as did their relationship as brothers. Kripke developed the story to include both. They both become essential to the main overhead arc of the entire show. The whole reason John and Mary even got together (through Heaven's intervention as per SPN canon) was to bring about both Sam and Dean's existence. Dean becomes the complement to Sam's role. We find out that Sam is the chosen vessel for Lucifer, and then we find out Dean is the chosen vessel for Michael, which leads to the showdown between Heaven and Hell essentially through the two. Both have a decision to make; both are tapped on the shoulders by both sides (i.e. Cas/Ruby); both are essential to the main plot while having their own separate arcs/journeys. Dean is no longer a side character or even the "Han Solo". His story is developed and we not only see his own hero's journey that he has to go on (when physically separate from Sam for example; going into the future though this is still intertwined with Sam's journey itself; going back in time, etc.) but his own desires, thought processes, relationships (outside of Sam), are also brought into the forefront for his story. Can this happen with side characters? Sure. But that's not what happens here because Kripke not only develops/beefs up Dean's story but also interweaves it with Sam's very carefully, to the point that the show doesn't work without both characters. Hence, Sam is no longer the sole main protagonist.

Which is why, for example, Dean is the one to kill the YED even though Sam had been determined to make YED pay for what happened to Jessica. And Kripke masterfully balances the main plot between the two as the show develops, so much so that we get payoff for Sam's journey (which leads up to Swan Song but I'll get to that in a moment), by fulfilling big plot points such as his killing Lillith and setting Lucifer free. He even still gets the hero's end by choosing to sacrifice himself to save Dean and the world in 5x22. Kripke beautifully takes Sam's original journey and tweaks it in such a way that while Sam had his dad's training and a similar quest for vengeance, he made a different decision and he did that while having much more on his shoulders (literally the weight of the world) than John ever did. And we still get payoff for what was initially set up way back in season 1. We get a close out to the Jessica story line, to Sam's powers story line, all of it, before Kripke dipped out.

And in the same fashion, we also got a closeout to Dean's story line. If he would ever get out of hunting, would he allow Sam to go into that dark night alone, would he be the same as John -- all of it.

So the ending to 5x22 absolutely makes sense. And we get: Dean surviving and going to live a "normal" life & Sam making the sacrifice (as the hero the series started out with) while also somehow surviving & making his way back to his brother. That's Kripke's ending. Now to be fair, Sam making his way back to Dean more likely had to do with them setting up the next season, but ultimately he wasn't dead after throwing himself and Michael into the pit.

Then in the later seasons, which some fans like to exclude or dismiss (but it's still part of Sam and Dean's official story), their stories were still integral to the main story but they had also evolved to include other characters (such as Cas, Jody, Donna, etc) and they had developed over the next ten years. So when looking at the series as a whole, Dean and Sam's endings in the series finale do not make sense. Kripke already got his ending in 5x22 and the show moved past that, and quickly set out to dismantle it in 6x01. This theme continued and the idea of free will became the center stage even more than it had in the first five seasons. By the time the last season rolled around, Dean and Sam had different desires, their stories had not only been completely intertwined to make both of them the main protagonists but both the heroes, and how their ends/hunting boots were hung up in the end would both matter.

So if you watched all of the seasons, 15x20 doesn't make sense. Because Dean and Sam wanted very different things by that point, they had both built relationships with other characters (Cas and Jack were the biggest ones but those two were not the only ones), and their story had effectively changed.

And if you didn't watch any of the later seasons (or you dismiss it), 15x20 still doesn't make sense because this wasn't the ending Kripke had for the seasons 1-5 Sam and Dean. If anything, it felt like it could have been 1x02 instead of the Wendigo episode, ending Dean and Sam's story in two short episodes with nothing in between.

That does not make sense.

Imagine we were discussing the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We all know how that ended (I'm talking TV only, not the comics). Buffy saved the world, she survived (finally!), and she was free from Sunnydale. Now imagine she had been killed off. Not only would it feel redundant but it wouldn't feel like a true ending for the story told over the past 7 seasons. What would have been the point of her being resurrected in season 6 then? What would have been the point of her relationship with Spike, Dawn, and the others? Could Joss Whedon have made it into another hero's sacrifice (instead of Spike doing the heroic/redeeming sacrifice), that she got Dawn, Willow, Xander, and the other Slayers ready to defend the world that she would die saving? Sure. But again, when you compare that ending to her story, it doesn't really make sense. There is no payoff, for the viewers or for the character of Buffy. She had earned that ending, the freedom from the Hellmouth and from the burden of being alone as the only Slayer (aka Chosen One). Which is why we get that great shot in the end:

Willow: "Yeah, the First is scrunched so...what do you think we should do, Buffy?"

Faith: "Yeah, you're not the one and only Chosen anymore. Just got to live like a person. How's that feel?"

Dawn: "Yeah, Buffy, what are we going to do now?"

The hero, who had already made the hero's sacrifice more than once, finally earned the ending that she wanted: freedom and the ability to choose to live her life for herself. The burden of being The Slayer had been removed and spread out to others (effectively building a network, hold that thought for a minute), she was no longer alone, she had defeated the Big Bad (which was effectively the Hellmouth since it kept creating/calling to these other Big Bads she faced over the years as well as the monsters she started out fighting), she might have more to face in the future, but it's up to her now what she wants to do. She is given the choice aka free will and that's what she earned after everything she had gone through during the duration of the show.

That's an ending.

This isn't:

Death wasn't supposed to be their ending. While some might be able to turn to you and say 'but they end up in Heaven together, they're at peace', that doesn't make it a payoff ending, for the viewers (early seasons only or all seasons) or for the characters of Sam and Dean. That's not effective storytelling. Neither ending was heroic or earned.

Dean dying, while again wouldn't make sense given the story, could have been painted as heroic if it happened during the battle with Chuck for example. Their final battle with the ultimate Big Bad. Even though they both died heroically quite a few times before this, it could have been done and while ultimately disappointing, it could have been the hero's end for Dean (just like Sam's end in 5x22 was the hero's end for him). This death wasn't heroic; instead it was from vampire stunt guy #4 who apparently juiced before that scene getting an upper hand on the hero and impaling him on a piece of sharp rebar. During a milk run hunt. Now imagine if that were Sam. Ask these people who think that by the end of the series that Sam was the only hero, ask them if that happened to Sam instead, would they still be praising the finale? Or imagine that was Buffy. That she survived like she does, the Hellmouth in Sunnydale was finally gone, only to be killed by a random forgettable vampire who she had faced off with in the first season and got away, only to suddenly return and take the hero out, thus negating the payoff/earned ending she and the viewers got. Doesn't make sense, right?

Now imagine if say Dawn was killed off in a similar way (though tbf Dawn's role was not the same as Dean's in the story) or during the battle, and we see Buffy living her life through the years, getting out of slaying, having a family which consists of a daughter she names Dawn, wearing her own Party City wig and looking at a picture of Dawn all teary-eyed, dying in her sleep as an old lady, and then reuniting with her in Heaven. It doesn't work. Not only because Dawn had a very different role in the show when it came to the main story but also because it DOESN'T WORK. What kind of hero's end is that? What payoff is that? Is it great that Sam gets to choose to get out of hunting and have a family? Sure. But that's not where his story was headed, in later seasons, or even during Kripke's era.

Going back to the network thing I mentioned with Buffy, Sam had done that. Not only were there strong hints of leader!Sam near the end of the series, but he had effectively built a network of hunters for a time until Alt!Michael killed them all. But he and Dean still had a network going through Jody, Donna, Claire, even Jack until he turned God!Jack. Wayward Sisters might not have taken off when it first aired but the point was made: a hunter network still existed. And these characters, this network, even though not shown in the finale, still survived no matter what happened with Sam and Dean in the end. Why is this important? Because not only does it extend the hunting universe, but it also removes the burden from the heroes' shoulders. So they could have gotten out of hunting if they wanted to, just like Buffy could have laid down her axe (or stake). The heroes had earned it.

So for Dean to die on a random hunt and for those few to say that it was being foreshadowed this whole time with Dean's quotes (from before season 15 btw) and a proper ending to his story...they really don't know what show they were watching or how storytelling works in general. Because when they say that, they negate Dean's whole arc of season 15 (while also negating his whole series arc). Dean was angry in the beginning of the season because he thought not only had his free will been taken from him, but also because he thought he hadn't had any free will this whole time. There's a reason why he says what he says to Cas in 15x02. There's a reason why he was so gung ho on letting Jack sacrifice himself, and only once once Sam and Chuck say what they say in 15x17 does Dean make a different choice: his family (and the world) vs his own desire (his idea of free will, not fully realizing that he's actually utilizing it by making that choice). It's only when he chooses not to kill Chuck in 15x19 that he is completely self-aware and that he is using his free will to make a choice. A choice that affects how the Big Bad is ended/defeated. "That's not who I am."

He was given the hero's choice and he made it. And his decision was the right one that had payoff from not only the events in 15x17 and 15x18 but for his overall story. That's why what Cas says to him in 15x18 about who he is as a character was so important. It set Dean up to not only have self-realization but to also act upon it. Think about how many times over the years Sam and other characters have told Dean this about himself but he never really believed it. Why? Because he hadn't reached that part of his journey yet. Because he hadn't reached the end of it yet. So it makes perfect sense how 15x17, 15x18, and 15x19 play out. This is the appropriate ending battle for not only Dean but Sam as well:

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This was the hero's sacrifice they made. They could have been killed from Chuck beating on them as he did. He could have chosen to snap his fingers at any point. They made the sacrifice in order to get Jack the time and energy he needed to power up to overpower Chuck. And they never stayed down no matter the pain, no matter the potential of their deaths at Chuck's hand. They refused to give it up. This is why Sam helps Dean back up and why they're laughing/smiling. Because they know that no matter what happens to them, Jack/the world is going to win. "Why are you smiling?" "Because...you lose." And their sacrifice not only hands victory over to the new generation aka Jack but also instates the new God who replaces Chuck aka The Big Bad of the entire series. EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS SCREAMS HERO.

So it's not only payoff for Jack's story (as well as Chuck's) but also for Sam and Dean's. And both brothers were the heroes. Which is why Sam tells Chuck that he loses and Dean tells him that they won. Why both of them tell Chuck about their plan that they formed together (and Jack doesn't say a word). Which is why Chuck says he's going to die at both of their hands, both Sam and Dean look at each other, and then Dean makes the choice not to kill Chuck. "See, that's not who I am. That's not who we are." Because they both were the heroes and main protagonists of the series. Something that Kripe had set up long before 5x22.

"What kind of an ending is this?" One the heroes had earned. Chuck as the Big Bad wanted violence and death, an ending he would be entertained by. And even for an ending he hadn't imagined for himself (where he loses), he still expected a grisly death at the hands of the heroes. Had either Winchester done that, then Chuck would have gotten what he wanted and it wouldn't be the heroes' end that they had earned.

This was the ending that Sam and Dean earned:

The choice to continue on if they wanted or to get out of hunting for good. To go see Jody, Donna, and the girls, or go get Cas out of The Empty, or go on milk run hunts for a while, or even to go to a freaking baseball game (screw you, John!); the point is it was their choice. That's what they had earned by the end of the series.

The ending that Chuck earned was not only the worst he could imagine but it was punishment for everything he had done. Both brothers say as much:

Sam: "I think it's the ending where you're just like us. And like all the other humans you forgot about."

Dean: "It's the ending where you grow old, you get sick, and you just die."

Sam: "And no one cares. And no one remembers you. You're just forgotten."

This was not the heroes' ending or the ending both characters had earned/deserved:

This was:

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For the ones who insist that Dean's sacrifice was the right ending for his story and that he got a new Heaven as a reward are incorrect. Heaven wasn't what Dean wanted, not before he got what he earned.

For the one who insist that Sam's ending was right for his story and that he got to have a family and choose to get out of hunting as a reward are incorrect. Sam wanted Dean to be a part of that life (however it looked) and he had no desire to get out of hunting by the time the series came to an end.

15x20 is not the right ending for either Winchester.

And for those who say that Dean hadn't become one of the heroes in the series or that the finale was right because Sam was the sole main protagonist by the end (or even Kripke's ending in 5x22) clearly weren't paying attention. Not only did Sam not get the heroes' end or the end he wanted and earned, but neither did Dean who had been developed into the other main protagonist of the series, by the series creator himself before he left the show.

Bonus:

15x20 was not their real finale and here's how you know:

Next shot (after cutting to black):

Nothing after it.

SPN:

Next shot (after fading to black):

And then:

(while still in costume, the two leads thanking the fans and then the crew/bridge drone shot complete with show music)

Compare this to how 15x19 ended as well. We get the montage, the drive off shot, and then the scene from 1x01 of Sam shutting the trunk of the Impala as Dean watches. Then cuts to black.

That's their finale.

#dean winchester #i'm not tagging the other guy because...ya know #both deserved the ending they had earned #with both being given the choice of what they wanted to do #that finale was shit #don't let “industry experts” on this site tell you different #it's storytelling 101 #spn #spnposts #anti spn finale #anti 15x20 #that episode was pure garbage #no disrespect to the cast and crew who worked hard #but that was shit writing #it negated 15 years of storytelling #even kripke's own story for both brothers

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mlobsters · 3 months

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supernatural s13e23 let the good times roll (w. andrew dabb)

well, carry on my wayward son has lost pretty all of its emotional punch that it once had for me back in the early seasons.

the moment we see sam in front of the corkboard and "the ice caps are melting" i felt like i was going to combust. what is this nonsense. our-earth 101 catching them up to speed even though we're just here to regroup and arm up before a showdown with michael? and how long was the apocalypse apocalypsing over there? longer than it would have without the boys to stop it in 2010 or whatever? mortifying. i fast forwarded. i don't need the spn cliffs notes on awful things here too

you want to hear some nonsense? i was sort of looking forward to yesterday's episode. i don't know why. well, it disabused me of that notion right quick.

why are we on some rando werewolf hunt

man mary is beautiful. and sure, she and bobby get umbrellas

MARY So what are you gonna do now? BOBBY Honestly, I got no clue. Everyone seems to be settling in okay in town. Ketch is out doing Ketch things. Rowena and Charlie are road tripping it through the Southwest.

i get that it's for production reasons they're not gonna have the whole cast around but hokay.

BOBBY Anyways...without an archangel, it's not like we can go back home. And I'm not sure I'd want to.

all right then. obviously, shit's gonna happen with lucifer and michael though right. don't have a lot of episodes left (lol) and i know michael gets all up in there at some point

DEAN Hey, you remember...remember when you asked if we could stop it? All the evil in the world? SAM Yeah. DEAN If we could...really change things? Well, maybe with Jack, we can. SAM Maybe you're right. But then what will we do? DEAN Mm. Yeah. This. (Dean holds a beer he has been carrying and Sam looks down at his) A whole lot of this. But on a beach somewhere, you know? Can you imagine? You, me, Cass, toes in the sand, couple of them little umbrella drinks. Matching Hawaiian shirts, obviously. Some hula girls. SAM (scoffing) You talking about retiring? You? DEAN If I knew the world was safe? Hell, yeah. And you know why? 'Cause we freaking earned it, man. SAM (holding up his beer) I'll drink to that. DEAN Yeah. Hell, yeah.

being optimistic is surely a sign for everything to turn to absolute shit. is cas gonna wear the trench over the hawaiian shirt? he's awfully commited to that look

tired of myself talking about this show.

DEAN Jack? Hey. Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Easy. You're just having a bad dream. JACK Sorry. DEAN It's okay. You don't have to apologize. I have 'em, too. All the time. JACK You do? DEAN Sure. JACK You, um... What do you see? DEAN Well, depends. Mostly... mostly people I couldn't save.

thanks for saying that i guess, pretty sure he's only gonna talk to someone that's zoned as a kid about it. but without specifics of course

DEAN Jack... it's not about being strong. I mean...Look, I don't know what you saw over there, and I don't know what you went through. I know it was bad. But I also know that you came out the other side because you are strong. But even when we're strong, man, things are gonna happen. We're gonna make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. Right? But we can get better. Every day, we can get better. So whatever you're dealing with, you know, whatever...whatever comes at us, we'll figure out a way to deal with it, together. You're family, kid, and we look after our own.

needed some Quality Dad Bonding time between jack and dean, i guess now that he's not convinced he's gonna go evil and blow up the world. also always slightly amused that jack's actor, alexander calvert, is 27 at this point

didn't take long for lucifer to show up

jack flitting off to basically kill this guy with no proof of wrongdoing, like. it's such a weird character because he's an adult, i think in world he's supposed be i dunno, late teens? and he's got a very childlike view of events. it's like infantilizing except that he is basically a baby with extremely limited life experince so?? i dunno. doesn't really work for me on the regular

in a way i wish pellegrino had a different role so i could like the character he's playing. i want to believe this thing with jack because he's just so good at being sincere and horrible. like, some fucking random play at getting jack on his side is making me cry??? because the idea of starting over and him actually leaving everyone alone is just so... i wish.

MARY Sam, even if we find Lucifer, how we gonna stop him?

did they lose their archangel blade over in au world?

MAGGIE Does it matter? Kinda seems like you have bigger, you know, Satan-y problems. SAM Yeah, but -- but we're -- we're dealing with those. Mostly.

the little muttered "mostly" did get a chuckle out of me

CASTIEL Yeah, angel radio is nothing but static, which is disturbing.

i mean there's only what, 9 angels left anyway lol

laughing at this ridiculous slow float downstairs while they shoot at him, knowing nothing is going to do anything

well. that big reveal of lucifer is actually evil to jack thing, well played by pellegrino as i'd expect. did not expect him flashing out of there with jack and sammy in tow.

DEAN No. What if...what if you had your sword?

well. i wondered what on earth could get dean to say yes.

LUCIFER Wow, Daddy Sammy coming to the rescue. But your little Jackie, the nougat-loving boy that you had before, he's killed people. He's got lots of blood on his hands. SAM (standing) I don't care. He's family.

i mean, so has sam and the rest of their family so?? not exactly a convincing argument :p

DEAN (to Castiel) Lucifer has Sam. He has Jack. Cass, I don't have a choice! DEAN (To Michael) If we do this, it's a one-time deal. I'm in charge. You're the engine, but I'm behind the wheel. Understand?

i'm sure that'll work out fine

mmmk.

convenient that michael and lucifer brought the archangel blades with them so we can have a little showdown

lol reminds me of the matrix training with morpheus fight but cheesier. and we're just gonna have a fist fight in the air. oy

are they actually committing to killing lucifer? his character was more than done but sad to see pellegrino leave, but glad that plotline is over finally

SAM You did it. DEAN No. No, we did it. We did it.

and dean immediately hunches over in pain and it's like s8e23 all over again

and now michael has his special sword vessel and he broke the deal and they can't go killing him while he's wearing dean, right. wonder how long that's gonna drag on in the next season. i haven't seen a lot of gifs of michael!dean so lol i figure it can't be that long??

#supernatural #spnwatch #andrew dabb #spnwhinge #spn 13x23

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best-toh-episode · 1 year

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What’s the best Owl House episode?

In honor of my favorite series ending, I decided I’d do a poll to see which TOH episode is the most common favorite. Every single episode is going to be included, maybe with the exception of season 3 (it wouldn’t fit into the poll layout I want to use)

I got the idea from @spn-episode-showdown

A few tags to spread the poll (please don’t feel pressured to reblog) @bisexual-protagonist-competiton @fictional-musician-competition @2023himbotournament @best-toh-charater-tournament

#polls #toh #the owl house #the owl house season 1 #the owl house s1 #the owl house season 2b #the owl house s2 #the owl house season 3 #the owl house s3 #the owl house polls #toh season 1 #toh s1 #toh season 2 #toh s2 #toh season 3 #toh s3 #owl house

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dothwrites · 8 months

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moriah is probably one of my favorite season finales. it changes EVERYTHING.

cas and dean's fight here is another brick added to the divorce wall. dean saying that he wanted to kill jack and then blaming cas for mary--cas might have accepted his responsibility in what happened to mary, but dean saying that he wanted to kill jack is a step too far. and it pushes cas away from him and it does break something between the two of them. cas is a DAD now, and he's always going to protect his kid. dean is grieving and scared and lashing out, and he's also saying the things that he knows will hurt and upset cas the most.

also VERY suspicious that they had dean and cas separated for the "stop lying" part of this episode. wonder what they might have said to each other if they WERE in the same room...

dean watches jeopardy each night. this is precious to me. dean is smart! he's a smart boy!

i can sympathize SO MUCH with the man who screams "I HATE EVERYONE!" at his desk with such glee. same random citizen. same. (the stapler queen also gets an honorable mention)

also, not even crowley would be so low as to make a demon deal with tr*mp, but i am SO glad that spn went there.

cas thinking about putting jack in the cage... and you know that cas would stay with him because he would think that it's what he deserved and what jack needed... but this is how bad things have gotten.

and chuck gives the plan away right here! he says, unequivocally, that writers lie. and i'll admit, i was taken in the first time--i wanted to think that chuck was good--but watching it now, it's obvious just how OFF he is. he's TOO cheerful and blase over jack.

everyone is right. the equalizer is a stupid ass name

i deserved to see a showdown between billie and chuck, not billie becoming another boring villain.

and then dean's "get on board or walk away" and cas walks! he walks away! and dean isn't surprised but then again, he really is, because when does cas ever walk away from an ultimatum like that? he always falls in line and goes along with the plan, but this time! he walks away!

god how painful must it be for cas to hear jack tell him that he can't love him. and then dean shows up and cas to choose between them AGAIN. has to put himself deliberately between dean and jack AGAIN. and jack kneels! he kneels before his father and he accepts his judgement even when it's WRONG and unjust!

the emphasis from the VERY BEGINNING has been on free will. and finding out that it's all been a lie from the very beginning... no WONDER dean is spun out over the next few episodes. he literally doesn't know up from down and can you blame him?

"welcome to the end" is such a very badass thing to say

THIS IS THE MOST BADASS MONTAGE EVER TO END A SEASON ON

#doth watches spn

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boykingofhellsam · 7 months

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Just read your pinned post-

Now I gotta know. What are your opinions about Nick? 🎤

Hmm... nick is definitely a complicated individual due to the situstion he finds himself in SPN. Losing his family violently and it seems Nick has no major support with him, a family besides those that were killed. Likely that Nicks family died or is estranged. Hes a man lost deeply without his family. Probably the only one, the only one who offers anything meaningful, is Lucifer.

While the death being preorganised occurs later in canon (which i throughly dislike and youll never find me writing about it) it does fit well as Lucifer heads to Nick first, knowing he will be emotionally vulnerable to manipulation. Suppose its no surprise that he gives in.

In the latter sessions we see that he is finally alive and in control over his own body but both his body and soul have suffered and been influenced by Lucifer. Nick is like a blurred Sam in a way. Nick is what Sam was supposed to be, Nick became what Sam was made for, was destined for. Nick said yes, Sam said no. The Apocalypse happens while Lucifer is in Nick, not Sam. Only the final showdown occurs with Sam not Nick.

We see very little of humans who are released from their angelic hosts. Most die or are killed while the angel is possessing them or they are husks of themselves. Raphael left his male vessel vegatative in S5e3 and Jimmy was possessed by a lower angel for id assume a year and he didnt take being possessed well but we also only saw either for a short while. Nick gets his moment on screen for longer. Its hard to know if Nick did have a predisposition to violence or not before s5 so its not really possible to know if killing is completelyout of character. We see him for so little time in s5e1 before Lucifer possessed him. From every moment we see Nick is already showing signs of wearing thin, and Lucifer refers to him in the past tense so Nick had by episode 3 when he introduces himself to Sam probably passed on to heaven but we arent certain.

I love Nick as a character but like Lucifer i wished they didnt just go "sterotypical bad man becomes evil".

#spn #supernatural #nick spn #askme

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antigonewinchester · 2 years

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stumbled on the oral history of SPN from 2014, back when they were just abt to hit episode 200. some interesting quotes to me:

evil Sam fighting good Dean, you can definitely still see traces of that in the story even if it became something different in season 5... I wonder if the “evil Sam vs. good Dean” was an idea he’d had at the start of the show, percolating over the seasons, or if it was something he was thinking about only starting in s4 and s5, the timing is a bit ambiguous here. I’m also so curious if Kripke has read or watched anime/manga, particularly Devilman, because sometimes there are real shonen vibes to SPN, and Devilman vibes in particular: a complicated and homoerotic relationship between the 2 main protags, evil sexy demons, and an epic apocalyptic showdown. I guess even if he only read American fantasy works, there’s probably a way to trace some of it back to Devilman, considering its global influence.

very interesting perspective on how Carver & his team wanted to write Sam post season 7 and into season 8. I kind of like that Carver was just, hey, fuck it, what if Sam did something out of character? but also when you make your main protag do something out of character, that’s tough from an emotional continuity perspective. character-wise, it’s hard for me to read Sam’s not looking for Dean as a mature, ‘exploring what it means to be his own person’ way, at least how it was shown in the narrative, and not as something instead rooted in trauma and avoidance. although this mature framing does explain some of the (to my perspective) narrative weirdness early in s8, and why the writing went so hard on the ‘Dean’s dysfunctional as compared to Sam’ angle in s8 & s9.

kind of hilarious that the Gadreel storyline is so controversial in fandom and it was such a minor pitch. just a, well, we did a vampire storyline with Dean in s8, what if we did something with angels in s9, making friends with people who might seem like enemies otherwise. except with this framing, it would’ve made a ton more sense to have Sam say yes to Gadreel without being tricked by Dean, but then Gadreel to have his own secret agenda that he didn’t tell Sam, leading into the same surprise twist of Gadreel taking over Sam’s body like actually happens mid-season... I suppose the Dean tricking Sam thing did kick up some more conflict between the bros, and fit within the ‘the brothers can’t let each other go’ theme that Carver was clearly interested in exploring more.

really is fascinating to me that I’ve frequently seen the idea of Dean as the POV of the show, compared to how Jensen talks about it here, which I think is a more much accurate read of the narrative. Kripke started the show hinging around Sam’s character & his POV and that then carried thru with other showrunners. seeing Dean as the main POV character is going to give you a different (skewed?) lens than what was intended by the writers. certainly I love taking into account Dean’s POV, but I think if one is trying to analyze writing choices or why certain things happen, knowing that Sam is more of the intended POV is useful in sorting all that out.

#meta #kripke #carver #season 8 #season 9 #season 5 #it does get tough when your read of the characters become so different from the showrunner / writers interpretations #is that part of the fun? the annoyance? both?

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nyxocity · 4 years

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Holy shit you guys. I’m up to “The End” in my SPN rewatch, and I stg, this episode is one of the absolute best of the entire series, for so many reasons. It’s also the episode that doesn’t stop giving.

We don’t get Sam’s side of the story, but with the hindsight of Swan Song, we can know pretty certainly that Sam probably said yes to Lucifer with the intent of trying to complete that plan.

In this future, Dean didn’t say yes to Michael. He walked away from Sam. He thought he couldn’t lose. He thought he could stop it alone.

Sam still said yes to Lucifer, because he, like Dean, didn’t believe he could lose. He thought he could let Lucifer in and throw himself into the pit. He thought he could stop it alone.

THEY BOTH thought they could do it alone. They couldn’t. And I love that what Dean realizes by the end of the episode is the exact OPPOSITE of what Zachariah intended.

This episode would have been the future. Zachariah wasn’t wrong about that. If things had continued on their current trajectory with Sam and Dean apart, what we see in The End is exactly what would have come to pass.

But Dean doesn’t need to say yes. He and Sam need to stick together. And he’s 100% right because even though Sam still says yes, it’s different this time. Because if Dean hadn’t been there at Stull Cemetery to ground Sam, to push past Lucifer and REACH Sam, Lucifer would have won. It’s only because they stick together that they win.

They’re stronger together than they are apart. I know there are a ton of episodes that highlight this fact about their relationship, but I’m not sure any of them make the point quite as strongly as this one does. Like, the world literally ends because the Winchesters went their separate ways.

Seasons 4 and 5 are excellent storytelling, but they’re also really sad, and extremely bleak. Watching them air live, I had time between episodes so I didn’t notice it AS much. But every rewatch I’m just like, DAMN, can I breathe now Kripke? This episode is a bit of an exception to that, because The End is incredibly bleak for the majority of the episode, but the ending is so hopeful.

And again, it’s only with the hindsight of having watched Swan Song that you could call this episode anything like heartwarming, but to me, now, it’s an affirmation of how Sam and Dean’s bond and love for each other literally saves the world.

Seasons 4&5 break my heart, but they also put it back together in some amazing ways.

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nikadd · 3 years

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no, but like im sure ive talked abt this before but one of the reasons 9x18 aka meta fiction is one of my favorite episodes is def bc of the inclusion of gabriel (and YES he’s my favorite spn character of all time let’s start by stating this alright) but NOT as an independent entity. metatron, having read all of the supernatural books and knowing everything that has happened, decided to use gabriel as the spearhead of his own “story”, a lesson the character of the hour (aka cas) had to learn. it works, of course, until the moment cas figures it out (bc he’s not a character he’s REAL i’m gonna die yelling about it i s2g). and obv he asks gabriel if HE’S real/alive, and it’s all haha hehe who’s to know maybe maybe not he’s a trickster nothing really stays dead on supernatural...

but let’s rewind. metatron used gabriel - who’d been living as a trickster, someone who tried to get as far as possible away from everything related to his family - and who previously acted as a guide/teacher to the winchesters multiple times before. besides tall tales, i don’t see how someone who is trying to avoid all that family showdown would actually insert himself out of his own volition.

now, we know that chuck was technically controlling everything, but at the same time he did give all his figureheads some level of free will just to keep himself entertained, kind of like in sims. but what i propose is that chuck was doing EXACTLY what metatron did later in meta fiction. he very purposefully pulled gabriel out of his general reverie into the main plot of chuck’s own magnum opus.

every heavenly rebel was kept on a short leash.

#it's valeriia talking #spn #gold whiskey sunshine #metatron #chuck shurley #spn s9 #spn 9x18

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eldritchqueerture · 2 years

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I posted 8,057 times in 2021

367 posts created (5%)

7690 posts reblogged (95%)

For every post I created, I reblogged 21.0 posts.

I added 3,703 tags in 2021

#tma - 3027 posts

#niki.rambles - 119 posts

#ask - 97 posts

#spn - 83 posts

#;; - 80 posts

#chnt - 66 posts

#ask game - 64 posts

#dnd - 57 posts

#yes - 56 posts

#the magnus archives - 54 posts

Longest Tag: 139 characters

#ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

My Top Posts in 2021

MAG193 be like

122 notes • Posted 2021-06-03 17:20:43 GMT

i wanted to go on a rant in tags of a post about mag200 but then i decided im making my own post

i cannot stress enough how much i fucking love tma ending specifically and precisely because of how heartbreaking it is. when i first listened to the podcast i expected some big fucking showdown action guns blazin shit and i was honestly a bit underwhelmed. yes it was Very Sad and Traumatizing but it was over so fast I didnt feel completely satisfied. But I don't think the idea was ever for it to be a guns blazing action showdown at all

you know how a lot of people say that jon's voice while reading the statements helps them sleep? someone asked me what kinda horror podcast makes you want to sleep and it got me thinking. its a kind of horror thats not outright scary and in your face; on the outside it might even seem calm and soothing when stories are read, and the horror only comes out when you actually pay attention and start thinking about things, and as you go through the podcast you start thinking more and more and its getting scarier and scarier the more you realize, like that meme i started realizing and i couldnt stop realizing yknow?

what i absolutely love about the ending is that its exactly this kind of horror. it was never going to be out in your face, dramatic climax; it may seem underwhelming at first but the more you think about it the more heartbreaking it becomes and its Fascinating

140 notes • Posted 2021-08-13 19:51:53 GMT

all girls do is wake up and blog about jonathan sims

276 notes • Posted 2021-07-28 07:32:09 GMT

youtube

Hello Jon nation how are we doing??

This is a quick compilation of Adorable Jon moments inspired by this post: https://twigstarpikachutroll22.tumblr...

I enjoyed doing it a lot and if anyone wants me to do another one please let me know!! I know for a fact there are many more quotes to be used because Jon is Beloved, even though I make fun of him a little bit in the video. It's out of love 💜

@twigstarpikachutroll22 look I made it! XD

276 notes • Posted 2021-08-07 17:24:18 GMT

im so in love with the fact that there are so many safehouse fics. im so in love with how we looked at those two episodes and collectively decided that we will write these two characters an eternity in love and safety. and i love every author who looked at the amount of safehouse fics already written and said "there needs to be more". i think this is really really beautiful and it just never gets old

840 notes • Posted 2021-09-03 17:12:10 GMT

Get your Tumblr 2021 Year in Review →

#my 2021 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review #THAT LONGEST TAG IS KILLING ME #3 thousand posts about tma. yeah that checks out #Youtube

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spn-episode-showdown · 1 year

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Round 1, Poll 4

#spn episode showdown #supernatural #spn #spn poll #poll #brackets #voting #10x23 #brother's keeper #9x23 #do you believe in miracles?#5x04 #the end #dean winchester #crowley #sam winchester #castiel #endverse #endverse cas

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disabled-characters-showdown · 9 months

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Disabled Characters Showdown Round 4

Propaganda/Who is this:

Eileen Leahy- Propaganda for Eileen by @eileenguy : she’s the coolest. She is my beloved, she’s played by an actress who would go on to become one of the first deaf showrunners on television. She is a fan favorite despite only being in 7 episodes and having possibly less than 40 mins screentime. She was dragged to LITERAL hell where she stayed getting tortured for what felt to her about 240 years; then she dragged herself out of hell (which is near IMPOSSIBLE to achieve based on canon), THEN she wandered around as a ghost for a little while with her giant (re:very tall) boytoy and sort-of boyfriend before getting resurrected in her normal alive form. And then she spent the remainder of her episodes hanging out w him as they did witchy shit together and he considered becoming the prince of hell sort of. And nothing bad ever happened:). In conclusion she is one of the best things to happen to spn maybe ever, and we all love her.

Apologies for the kind of weird formatting, this was originally in the tags of a reblog.

Finn Mertens- Has a cool last name. From Adventure Time. He is the main character, he has a cool hat.

Check out the other polls in this round here.

#polls #disability #poll #fandom polls #disabled characters #eileen leahy #supernatural #spn #finn mertens #adventure time

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watchingspnagain · 2 years

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Rewatching Devil’s Trap

Welcome to “Wooof, It Stinks Like Daddy Issues in Here: A Supernatural Rewatch Blog” with Lor and Mace!

Up today, s1e22: Devil’s Trap

Meg calls Dean to gloat that she’s captured John. The boys go to Bobby, an old family friend, for help. (We squee.) Bobby explains that demonic possessions are way up (that’s bad) and helps them snare Meg in a devil’s trap. They torture Meg for info on John, and in the process discover that Meg is a human possessed by a demon. They exorcise her but can’t save the human Meg. Sam and Dean proceed to rescue John from the other demons. Eventually Dean realizes that John has been possessed since they rescued him (because he’s BEING TOO NICE), and a fraught showdown ensues. In the fight, Dean is badly injured by possessed John, and the episode draws to a close with Sam and exorcised!John arguing about their next move—go straight after the demon or get Dean medical help. Then: whammo! The Impala is T’ed by a semi.

Below is a log of our real-time reactions as we watched. Remember that there may be spoilers for any part of SPN’s 15-season run here. Note also that the nature of our conversation is adult and thus it may contain adult language and themes.

[and we begin:]

Lor:

oh right. pre Carry On My Wayward Son

Mace:

Ha! Yep

Cripes, the Previously Ons are half the episode this time

Lor:

right?

Mace:

the quaver in Dean's voice when he says "they've got Dad"

Lor:

YES

I was just gonna say that

Mace:

"listen tough guy" DEAN

Lor:

LOL

this episode. the stuff with Dean and John what isn't actually John. just kills me

Mace:

YUP

and how he knows it's not actually John is such a gut punch

Lor:

YES

oh boys

Mace:

yeah. let the 14-some-odd-seasons of fraught begin.

Lor:

YEP

Mace:

BOBBY

Lor:

BOOOOBBBY

Mace:

HAHAHA

lookit his cute little curls in his hair in the back

Lor:

YES

I LOVE that the last time Bobby saw John he threatened to shoot him

Mace:

he's been on screen for a whole 30 seconds and he's already 1000% times a better father figure than John

Lor:

CORRECT

He's treating them like adult humans he has affection for, so

Mace:

YAS

while John fannies about with his Colt and his over-developed sense of vengeance...

Lor:

YEP

poor Rumsfeld

Mace:

his dog's name is Rumsfeld OMG

Lor:

lololol

Mace:

(for the record that was a mix of quotes from Bridget Jones and Princess Bride. I am impressed with myself, to be honest)

Lor:

(lolololol)

Mace:

Dean's "gotcha" nnnggg

Lor:

YAAAAAS

whatever that little thing he did with his lip there.... mrrrrf

Mace:

YES

Lor:

I want to know if John knows this and didn't tell them or if he's just too dumb

Mace:

again, Bobby is a much better dad to them - he doesn't yell at them or make Dean feel like he's an idiot for not knowing about how possession works. he just calmly explains it

Lor:

YES

oh Dean, baby, thinking he can march into hell

Mace:

not realizing that he...will...

Lor:

yeah

"I LIED"

Mace:

I'm...not sure why Sam is uncomfortable with this. I mean. Demon.

Lor:

is he uncomfortable or does he just think they can still use her?

Mace:

he seems troubled to me

Lor:

yeah, he did then when he went back to it

Mace:

always with the water and blankets

Mace:

like they're some sort of miracle cure-all

Lor:

LOL

(if they are willing to call 911 here, for a girl who is broken to bits and they have NO explanation for why, there is NO WAY Sam could not have called 911 for Dean in the finale)

Mace:

(RIGHT?!?!)

Lor:

at least the blankets might help if she's going into shock

the water is probably a terrible idea

Mace:

snork

Lor:

don't introduce stuff into a broken system!

John should have lived so they could bring him round to Bobby's and then the first time he said shit to one of them, Bobby could have decked him

Mace:

omg the way Sam twirls the pen I CANNOT

Lor:

we deserved to see it

Mace:

YES

Lor:

YES

lololol Dean

Mace:

Ha! but Smarty Sammy!

Lor:

YES

oh dEAN

Mace:

yeah

sweet little kettle

Lor:

lolol YES

he's so afraid of everyone dying and leaving him alone holds him

Mace:

yep

"this sucks out loud"

Lor:

YES

omg 2006

7 minutes exactly?

Mace:

snork

Lor:

is that a thing? I don't think that's a thing

Mace:

yeah I have no idea

Mace:

a yorkie, Dean? really?

Lor:

"I got a Yorkie upstairs and he pees when he's nervous" OMG

DEAN

pets him

Mace:

FIREFIGHTER OUTFITS

DED

Lor:

OMG

he wanted to be a firefighter... because of his mom dying in a fire?

Mace:

I suspect it was before she died, when he was still a kid and was allowed to have When I Grow Up I Want To Be thoughts...

Lor:

mmm. that is certainly less heartbreaking

Mace:

post mom-on-ceiling John would never allow for such dreams.

you're welcome.

Lor:

lol. thanks

Mace:

hey, any time. s'what I'm here for.

Lor:

locking the door and the hatchet coming through it right after!

Mace:

yes! very The Shining

is that Carson Daley?

Lor:

I have no idea

Mace:

(I was trying for a joke - he just looked like him)

Lor:

omg that shot of Dean with the joke

Lor:

(SNORK sorry)

Mace:

DEAN WITH THE JOKE HAHAHAHA

Lor:

GUN

DAMMIT

get outta my head, MACE

Mace:

braces self for THE SCENE

Lor:

ooof, yep

Mace:

"I'm trying to thank you here" Yes, DeanDean, bE GRACIOUS

Lor:

this scene where Dean pleads with possessed John not to let the demon kill him? that lived in my head from the moment I saw it 2006 all the way up till we started watching it 2019

Mace:

ooof

Lor:

"for you or dad, the things I'm willing to do or kill... it scares me sometimes" THAT'S IT THAT'S THE SHOW

Mace:

"you're not mad?" sounds of my heart breaking

YUP

Lor:

YES

Mace:

my god he looks so confused at the praise from John

FUUUUCKKK YOU JOHN

Lor:

UG. the way it's telling him what he's wanted to hear from his Dad since he was five

RIGHT?

Mace:

"he'd be furious"

oh DEAN WINCHESTER YOU SWEET SAD THING

Lor:

"he wouldn't be proud of me. he'd tear me a new one"

SOMEONE HOLD HIM

Mace:

Ha! Sammy's "what the hell"

Lor:

lol

Sam's "Dean, how do you know?" it's a genuine question, not, like, an accusation

Mace:

SAM CHOOSES DEAN YAS I LOVE YOU SAMMY

Lor:

YES

Jeffrey Dean Morgan is so good here

Mace:

HE IS

Lor:

I mean, it's not like John hasn't metaphorically been tearing Dean apart for 24 years

Mace:

RIGHT?!

okay they used that "oh that's right" joke twice in one episode. come on, guys.

Lor:

seriously

he just put his finger on so much of Dean. hiding behind the humor.

Mace:

YUP

Lor:

the way the demon is literally just speaking the truth

Mace:

i love that trope of the bad guy speaking awful truth to the hero

Lor:

YES

Mace:

SMARTY SAM

Lor:

YES

ooo, and this is the first time someone who loves Dean overcomes possession in order to not hurt him

Mace:

YEP

Lor:

omg the dual begging of Sam

Mace:

YES

this is one of my favorite season endings

Lor:

YES

Mace:

so BLAMMO good

HA! I still jump every time!

Lor:

YES

"no sir, not everything" and then Sam looking in the rearview at Dean

Mace:

YES

poor Baby

Lor:

right?

She gets banged up SO many times

Mace:

she does

#watchingspnagain #watchingspnagain 1x22 #spn #supernatural #spn meta #spn spoilers #spn 1x22 #watchingspnagain demons #watchingspnagain doppelganger attack #watchingspnagain fraught #watchingspnagain john #watchingspnagain season finale

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mlobsters · 7 months

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I tried to watch spn a few years ago but didn't give it my full attention and bombed out a handful of episodes in. I recall someone recommending a list of episodes to watch if you didn't want to do the full run (understandable to me at the time, what with the number of episodes and like hey xfiles too I think there's skippable episodes and you know how I love that show) but now that I'm in the thick of an extremely invested first watch and I'm in season 9, I wonder what version of the show those lists would give you. the castiel focused edit perhaps? because even in the crappiest spn episodes, there's almost always some quality Brother Content. I may have fast forwarded through that extended insect showdown in Bugs, but I wouldn't want to skip the sam and dean conversations in it. sam and dean's relationship is the mytharc 🤔

#supernatural #deep thoughts while making the grocery list #yeah i ship wincest but i don't care if they're fucking it's the obsessive canonical unhinged love and devotion for me #which the actual show has in spades

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spn-romantica · 3 years

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So I watched SPN for years, right up until the end of S11, when they brought back Mary. I heard that S15 would be the last season, and I was like ‘oh ok I’ll rewatch (for like the 8th time) and finish SPN then’ BUT THEN 15x18 happened and I was violently pulled back into the SPN fandom. I still haven’t caught up fully watching yet, but I’ve read so much discourse now...and I have thoughts. Hypotheses currently. I’ll wait to finish the whole show for real to call any of this theories but, I wanted to record my thoughts.

They’re about Chuck. As a villain. Which weirds me out. As an antagonist? Sure. As evil? No. Can’t envision it. I just finished my rewatch of S5 and, damn, but if Chuck is the ultimate villain, S5 reads very differently. :0

But I recently saw a post comparing Dean’s reaction in 1x18 (I believe) to his in 10x05 (for sure) about when someone mentions his mother’s death. In 1x18, it’s Sam when they were children and Dean gets angry. In 10x05, it’s a group of high school girls and Dean just bops his head along to the song. The post was framing it as 10x05 not understanding Dean’s thoughts about his mother, but I think that both episodes understand Dean. When Dean is a child, the trauma over his mother’s murder is still fresh. By 10x05, the event is 70 years in the past. Of course it still affects Dean. Of course. You never really get over something like that. But I’d argue that after 70 years, Dean has moved through the stages of grief to acceptance. It still hurts, but like an old ache, not a fresh, still-bleeding wound.

Interestingly, 10x05 is when we see Chuck, after a long absence. He’s watching the play, probably happy that someone loves his work enough to even make a musical, but he is also watching the Winchesters. The actual episodes of the show, aka the books Chuck writes, are what Chuck knows/cares about regarding the Winchesters. Despite being God, I’d argue he doesn’t pay attention to every second and all the little minutia of the boys’ lives. So, here in 10x05, we have confirmation that Chuck is around to see that Dean has healed from his mother’s death.

Later, in S11, Dean acts as therapist/life counsellor to Chuck/God, regarding Amara and Lucifer. And it works! Dean teaches God about family and about healing. Why does God listen to Dean Winchester, a random human? Perhaps it is because of S1-5. Perhaps it is because Dean and Sam were part of God’s test, as God himself describes it in 5x22.

What was the test? Was it God’s experiment about choice and free will? About freedom vs peace? Or, perhaps, was God trying to understand sibling relationships? He and Amara are two faces of the same coin. They are siblings, but with very different outlooks and it caused a rift between them, caused Chuck to seal Amara away before she could destroy his creations. Chuck regretted this, but saw it as a necessary betrayal. But then, some time later, Chuck’s angelic children experience their own betrayal and sibling rift. Lucifer tries to turn the angels against God, rebel and reject God. He makes demons, for sure, and maybe even Hell. But why? God figures that Lucifer was maybe jealous of the new baby (humans) like others in the show postulates. Or maybe Lucifer had beef specifically with Michael, because humans are little more than amoebas from an angelic perspective. Aside from Castiel, Anna and a handful of other angels, angels consistently view humans as humans might view dust mites. Maybe humans were the cause of the rift between Michael and Lucifer, but it was Michael and Lucifer’s relationship that needed fixing in the end, regardless.

So God is left with the sad conclusion that maybe close siblings will inevitably betray each other and be unable to forgive and heal. He wants to heal with Amara. But he also wants Michael and Lucifer to be able to heal. (It doesn’t occur to God that maybe Lucifer’s problem was never with humanity or Michael; it was with God.)

So God has research to do, to see if it’s possible for siblings to experience such deep betrayal and still heal. He turns to his little hairless apes, the only sentient species on Earth with potential to parallel the angels. He starts testing siblings. Cain and Abel are first up. Needless to say, but the betrayal was too strong and left no room for healing. But on down the line of Cain, God continues testing. Eventually, we come to Sam and Dean.

God has scheduled Michael and Lucifer’s family counselling session for 2010. All the data up to this point says it can only end badly. Maybe it’ll half-kill the Earth, but it’s finally time for Michael and Lucifer to meet and for one of them to die. God isn’t happy about this conclusion, but it’s what the data says. So, finally, the last test subjects, the last in the line who will be the vessels for Michael and Lucifer’s showdown, arrive. Sam and Dean Winchester are to be the last sibling test. The conclusion seems foregone at this point, but there is no point in cancelling the last bit of the test after so long, so it continues. God watches. And Sam and Dean surprise God. Siblings after siblings had failed for millennia to heal. Betrayals too strong, healing too little, too late. But Sam and Dean. no matter how badly they hurt each other, find a way to come back together and heal. They don’t give up on each other, despite millennia of data to the contrary. Still, the angels and demons push and push at Sam and Dean until their rift is as wide and as deep as Michael and Lucifer’s, as God’s and Amara’s (in late S4). It seems, despite the brothers’ best efforts earlier on, it’s all for naught.

But there is a further element of randomness, something God couldn’t foresee. Castiel. God hasn’t had occasion for romantic love in his own experience, so he is entirely blind to what choices Castiel is likely to make. He provides an element of randomness to the experiment, an essential part that gives Dean the ultimate chance to go back to Sam and begin to heal (4x22).

Throughout S5, Sam and Dean heal. There is hurt, still, of course, but they love each other and forgive each other. By 5x22, they’ve surprised everyone. Even the angels have given up on turning them against each other, and have shrugged and settled for using Nick and Adam as the vessels for the showdown. Sam and Dean passed their test. They were siblings who betrayed each other and healed from it. God reconsiders how family counselling will go with Michael and Lucifer. He figured it would be the Apocalypse, the end of the problems between Michael and Lucifer, as one of them dies, as had always happened before. But, Sam and Dean showed God, that though it is rare, it is possible to heal. So God gives Sam and Dean an out. He gives Sam the strength to seize back control from Lucifer, should things go south.

Finally, the showdown arrives. Michael and Lucifer meet. They talk things out. To God’s surprise, Lucifer reveals that he never had a problem with Michael. He had forgiven Michael long ago. But Michael couldn’t forgive Lucifer. He had to be a ‘good son’ and do what he thought God wanted him to do. But Michael didn’t realise, that God doesn’t give orders. Free will all the way, baby! But the whole thing comes as a surprise. Apparently, all this time, the problem relationship wasn’t siblings, it was parents.

Oops.

Good thing God had a back-up plan.

Sam throws himself and Lucifer (and Michael and Adam) into the Cage. Michael and Lucifer have an eternity to figure things out between each other now. But that’s beside the point. The point is, now, that God has to start testing all over again. Not how to fix sibling relationships, but how to fix parent-child relationships.

God restores Castiel, perhaps for a few reasons because God exists outside of time, but originally it may have been just for one. He likes Castiel. He is impressed that Castiel invented free will for himself, broke free of angelic programming (multiple times over), and did it all for love. It’s novel. It’s interesting. God might even think it’s sweet. But God has had time later, and thought about it, and he has a plan. And Castiel is essential.

But Dean Winchester is the key.

Sam and Dean’s relationship with their own father has been strained, but both boys find a way to forgive John his flaws and failings, and love him. Whenever they do get a chance to see him again, post his death, they don’t hate him. They’ve healed. John’s relationship with Sam and Dean is one point of data, Abraham and Isaac another. There are many data points that God can reflect back on and consider.

But as S6 through S10 roll on, God watches Sam and Dean and Castiel. He even watches Crowley and Rowena for another data point. Dean is his main focus, however. (This is a little meta, but as the story focuses more on Dean than Sam post S5, it ties in. Prior to S6, both Sam and Dean were essential - the sibling test. Now, post S5, the parent test, Dean is the most essential. Of course, Sam and Castiel are important too. But Dean is key.)

Dean is a good father. He was a good father to Sam, even when he was only 6 years old himself. He was a good father to Ben. He was willing to die for Bobby John. He’s always good with kids. Not only that, but Dean is blunt enough, brave enough, and crazy enough to tell God to God’s face what he thinks. God needs Dean’s advice, his perspective and opinion on family relationships, but he also needs to see what Dean would do if he were in God’s shoes.

[Edit (1/04/21): After seeing Michael and Lucifer (mostly) heal, and after seeing Sam and Dean heal their relationship, God finally has hope for him and Amara. So God logically wants to retrieve Amara from her prison. But how? Well, he could just wander on up to Cain and do it himself, but what would Amara say? “So I see you’ve come crawling back, eh, Chucky?” She wouldn’t be impressed with God. She wouldn’t understand, because she’s hopeless too. SO how to give her hope? How to make her see that she and God can be okay again? Why, stick her near Dean Winchester, of course! So God sets things up for Dean to get and lose the Mark of Cain, thereby ensuring that Amara will feel a connection to Dean and stick around him/keep him alive long enough for Dean to work his life-coach magic.]

In S11, God and Amara heal their relationship because of the hope Sam and Dean gave God, and also the direct advice Dean gives God. God and Lucifer, not so much.

God needs more data. He needs to see what Dean would do. In comes Castiel’s relevance. God sets things up so that Lucifer can have a son. A nephil. Jack. And God points Castiel in Jack’s direction, trusting Castiel’s ability for unconditional love to keep Jack alive long enough for the experiment. Castiel becomes Jack’s father. But Castiel will never betray Jack, the way God betrayed Lucifer. And, besides, Castiel isn’t the target of this experiment. But it is Castiel’s relationship with Dean Winchester that provides the link needed to get the experiment rolling.

Because Jack is Castiel’s son, he is therefore Sam and Dean’s nephew. Except, God has been watching Castiel and Dean. And, frankly, their romantic love for each other is so obvious even God cannot miss it. Through Castiel, Dean sees Jack as his son too. He loves Jack, exactly like a son. In this way, Dean parallels God, and Jack parallels Lucifer.

But God knows Dean would not easily turn on any child, let alone his own child. So God had a plan for that too. One that Amara helped him with.

They brought back Mary Winchester.

Mary is the one person in existence whose loss would hurt Dean enough to spur him to action. So, she was brought back to die. It was a matter of only a few years of gentle prodding to get everything in position. Jack causes Mary’s death. Dean is faced with a horrible decision. If Jack can kill Mary, what’s to say that Sam and Castiel wouldn’t be next? Mary’s death is like everything beginning all over again for Dean as well. Her first death set off a chain reaction, a series of unfortunate events that spanned decades and nearly caused the ruination of not only Dean’s life, but Sam’s and John’s and even the world. That scar, which had healed as well as it could after 70 years, that God saw was healed in 10x05, has been violently opened up again. It’s the only thing that could force Dean’s hand, that could get him to betray Jack and try to kill him. If Jack had killed Sam or Castiel, it wouldn’t have had the same effect. Both Sam and Castiel had died and come back so many times, and while it would hurt Dean and make him doubt Jack, their deaths would be a sacrifice that Dean would feel obligated to respect, to give Jack a second chance like they would both want. (And God has been laying the groundwork for Dean, convincing him that Jack is evil, will be evil like Lucifer, can’t be allowed to live. All things God has thought about Lucifer over time. Was Lucifer inherently evil? Was their rift inevitable?)

So, here it is. The big test. Will Dean kill Jack? Will he betray Jack and cause an unhealable rift? Or will he find a way to heal, like he did with Sam against all the odds?

And, once again, Dean impresses God. He refuses to kill Jack.

But now we’re in the endgame. Sam, Dean and Castiel are aware that Jack’s life was only on the line because of God. It’s not something they can forgive, or understand. They’re all God’s guinea pigs, and while he loves his guinea pigs, he knows he’s hurt them in the name of science, of knowledge. or healing, and God can’t undo what he’s done. Free will is linear, after all. So it is time for the Winchesters, Castiel and Jack included, to be done with God. God is done with them, too. It’s time for them to be free and at peace. The experiments are done. God has decided not to kill Lucifer. He has decided to try to heal. He can get Lucifer out of the Empty and talk and try to fix things. He has forever to fix things, now that he knows he can. (The last element of this, Jack forgiving Dean for trying to kill him, is something I have limited knowledge of, but I am under the impression happens so... To be added in the edit once I finish the series.)

But the only way the Winchesters will be able to rest, is if they think God, the last and greatest villain, is out of the way. They know they’ve been manipulated their whole lives, first towards the sibling experiment and now the parent experiment, so they need to think God is gone so they can feel secure in their free will once more. Truthfully, God never took their free will. He set them up in situations, maybe even gave a bio-chemical nudge of anger (Dean) or attraction (Sam and Eileen) every now and then. But the choices were always theirs. Still, God knows they won’t see it that way. So he sets things up so that they can defeat him.

He lets them win. He wants them to win. They cannot defeat God, after all. It’s not God’s time, and Death is the only one who can claim God in the end, as the two embrace as friends and walk to the next existence. But the Winchesters need this, and so God allows it. A last gift, to the beings who have been such help, hope and inspiration to him.

With an eye for an eventual S16, 15x20 is written to be ‘an ending’ but also one that could easily be reframed as a bad dream.

For example...

Unfortunately, after Jack, suped up on a extra Grace God lent him, restores the Earth and expends all the Grace (”giving up the mantle of God so that their is no God, no plans, only Free Will”), and Dean, Sam and Jack head back to the Bunker to regroup and gather the ingredients to do the spell to rescue Castiel from the Empty, they’re jumped by monsters who are angry with how much God has fucked with them on behalf of the Winchesters. 15x20 is all a djinn dream Dean is trapped in.

16x01 is Dean waking himself up from the djinn dream, Sam and Jack escaping their own monsters, and then the end of 16x01 is Dean saying something about waking Castiel up from his own dreams in the Empty. The rest of S16 sees the boys save Castiel, reunite with Eileen, start a monster-hunting Bobby Singer/Men of Letters-esque organisation, Dean and Castiel getting together and getting married on Valentine’s Day, Jack getting to live a normal life, going to school, making friends, etc.

If their is no S16 ever (which would be criminal), then 15x20 makes no sense, unless it is plainly a recount of an old, hopeless ending written by God. However you spin it, 15x20 is not the way it seems (like owls).

All things being said, God is an antagonist, but he’s not evil. He’s an asshole, sure, but he never once worked against the Winchesters, never bet against them, never tried to erase or end them. He wanted them to win. He wanted to see the fruits of free will be love, second chances, hope, forgiveness, healing, and happiness, not just betrayal, pain, selfishness, jealousy, disappointment, and hopelessness.

Why is the ending he shows Becky ‘hopeless’? Because God is. He has spent his long existence losing his most loved family members. Amara, Lucifer. How can things end well for God, when they can’t even end well for humans? But Sam and Dean defy the script, again and again. They surprise God, defying the statistics, defying the hypotheses, throwing the experiment into disarray. Giving God hope. Sam and Dean were okay. Dean and Jack were okay. If God had a romantic love, he would find hope from Dean and Castiel being okay. But when God wrote the book he showed Becky, he was writing what he thought would happen. In the end, surely, not even Dean can be enough to hold Sam and Cas and Jack together. But in the end, as we see, as God sees, he is proven wrong and he’s happy to be wrong. He’s hopeful. And he can leave Dean, Sam, Castiel and Jack, and all the angels and all the humans, to rule the Earth and the Heavens. He doesn’t need to learn anything more from them, so he heads to the Empty, with Amara, with Lucifer, with Death (Billie or not, Death is there for God in the end), and they can all depart for a better existence of their own.

If you read all of this, thanks! I eagerly anticipate watching the remaining 10 seasons so I can come back and edit the heck outta this, but until then, if y’all have any thoughts, I’d be interested to hear them~

TLDR: God is a morally bankrupt scientist and the Winchesters are his guinea pigs, but he’s not evil and he does love his guinea pigs, even if he could really treat them nicer.

#supernatural #spn #dean winchester #sam winchester #jack kline #castiel #god #chuck #amara #lucifer #mary winchester #destiel #deancas #this is what i get for living on spn tumblr in a post s15 world while rewatching s5 and having memories ranging from hq to 8bit about s1-s11 #be kind i haven't finished my rewatch/finished the show so i probably have stuff wrong #what if god isn't evil just has no inherent moral compass because he has to teach himself everything #and he's taken to using the winchesters as his guinea pigs/life counsellors

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