#tsh theory

[mediumguyenergy]

obsessed with the idea that Richard Papen isn't from Plano, California but instead Plano, TEXAS because the only fictitious places in the book are Hampden College and the town Hampden, so why does Donna Tartt choose to make it so Richard says he is from California?

Because it is more interesting for this new and mysterious person in a new town to lie and say they are from somewhere interesting, from the beginning of the story, it is one of the first indications to the reader that Richard himself is a liar and because he is the one narrating the story after all that has happened he can do whatever he wants and tell the story that he wants, (for example; Richard claims that Camilla kisses him multiple times throughout the book but every time this happens no one is around and after it happens it doesn't go anywhere, it doesn't further the plot, it is just there)

#the secret history #the secret history donna tartt #richard papen #richard papen is a liar #tsh #tsh theory #the secret history theory #smythe thoughts

[astrum-aetherium]

What do you think Henry whispered in Camilla's ear at the end? It's a moment that really stuck with me somehow and I love hearing theories about it

what can possibly be more personal, more ponderous and intimate than i love you?

i'm sure this is something everyone who has read TSH has previously wondered about. i know i have. what i also know is that the most common theory is "live forever", and yes — it would make sense, given that henry is undeniably a devoted little teacher's pet to julian, but it does seem a little melodramatic to me (specifically because julian did abandon them all in the end as well, lol). henry going out with a bang (literally) wouldn't be defined by something as simple as that, however much meaning is attached to it in theory. besides, we've all heard that theory a million times over. i'll offer a new one.

he's goddamn pretentious. to the bone. he refused to take his SATs and thereby consciously denied himself the opportunity to attend any prestigious schools (which he would've certainly gotten into and dominated) for singularly aesthetic reasons. you simply can't get more pretentious than that. i always say that he's too intelligent for his own good — to the point it no longer benefits him at times. just too smart to possess any ability to reflect on himself. almost amusing in that way.

therefore, i believe it was something along the lines of a riddle — something that would keep camilla puzzling over it for a long time succeeding his death. and yes, you can say that his suicide was an impulsive decision and all that, but he had been (even verbally) entertaining suicidal ideology way before he actually went through with it. plus, he just seems like someone who would have something like that — his last words — memorized and ready to go at all times, specifically at a time as dangerous as toying with the possibility of being detained and thrown in jail for murder. just a thought.

i'm almost 100% sure it was also in any language other than english, according to his customs. i've already elaborated on how pretentious he is. he wouldn't make it easy for anyone to figure him out that quickly, not even camilla. the i love you was just a premise, nearly nothing compared to the whisper. and if it's not english, then it must be one of the languages that he does know. assuming that it's either latin or ancient greek, he would go out of his merry way to make it as complex and hardly translatable as he can. he would apply the most archaic of archaic versions of those languages, even with one simple phrase. as i said, he would've planned it out beforehand deliberately. it makes perfect sense.

what it would be, however, is a whole other conversation of its own. maybe that very "i love you" or previously mentioned "live forever", just in a different language. that is the simplest answer i can offer. i like to dig deeper when it comes to mysteries such as this one, though, so i've been gathering my thoughts all day today in order to predominantly satisfy myself with an obnoxiously pretentious answer. how about: "to the stars" (kitsch but fitting, obviously convoluted, and in a different language) or a translated version of "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" — just to deride religion and tradition one last time. or, perhaps, "permanence". something that perpetuates his convicted disbelief in vanitas. "never gone"; "the conclusion". and i know, all of these sound dumb as hell in english, but do remember — they would be uttered in a different language, and in a complex way, too. to be mulled over; wondered about for a long time, even as a scholar.

someone needs to hook me up with ms tartt's phone number so we can settle this once and for all, lol. but then again, i don't want to know. i don't want a simple answer to such a mystifying, ponderous question. i'm fine with eternally musing over it — it certainly keeps me entertained.

#astrum asks #henry winter #the secret history #donna tartt #camilla macaulay #tsh #tsh theory #live forever is a very good guess but it's simple #and i don't like simple answers to complex questions #especially when it comes to theorizing about books #i have an english major mind through and through

[dionysus2xborn]

reading some philosophy today and…

Bruh—am I stupid, did everyone catch this or am I smart? Idfk, but…Charles  and Camilla… prettttyyy sure they’re symbolic of Adam and Eve. The orphaned—“parentless”—incestuous twins makes sense now. Thanks philosophy and religious studies.

(Eve is made from the rib of Adam=sort of like the “twin of him”. Explains some of her nature too.)

#camilla macaulay #charles macaulay #the secret history #tsh #tsh theory #The secret history theory #donna tartt

[idontthinknowsthebesttime]

The best thing about The Secret History theory about the farmer being killed by a catamount is that on top of being so comically ironic that Bun was killed over nothing, it really sheds light on how conceited the students are. They so want to believe they achieved the ritual and reached the state that Julian describes in the beginning "no more awareness of mortality than an animal" that they automatically assume it was them. When truly they were just doing alcohol and drugs like any other teen out there, which Richard makes fun of and looks down on for consuming.

Oh and also Dionysus is the god of large cats so it's even more ironic.

#the secret history #tsh #donna tartt #richard papen #henry winter #camilla macaulay #francis abernathy #charles macaulay #theory #dionysus

[henrywinterswife]

practically every character in The Secret History played a role of someone that they were not.

richard and bunny played themselves as rich, when in fact they were poor.

charles and camilla played themselves as pure, when in fact they were weaved with immorality.

francis played himself as cool, when in fact he was an anxious mess.

henry played himself as intellectual, when in fact he was blinded by his own stupidity, wealth, and ego.

julian played himself as a father figure, aiding to the care and minds of the Greek students, when in fact he was conniving and egocentric, swept away by his own gain, unlike a true father.

mrs corcoran played herself as a victim and sorrowful mother of a lost child, when in fact she only cared about her own appearance in front of the camera.

hell, even dr roland played himself as a psychologically-forward man, deep in intellect, when in fact he was nearing dementia and a complete gobble of a man.

i mean, gosh, this theme plays out so grandly. putting up a front and hiding your real self. whether for gain or by self consciousness.

#the secret history #camilla macaulay #charles macaulay #donna tartt #francis abernathy #henry winter #richard papen #tsh #books #bunny corcoran #the secret history memes #the secret history aesthetic #the secret history theory #the secret history analysis #dark acamedia #dark academic aesthetic #dark academia #dark acadamia quotes #dark acadamia aesthetic #dark academism #classic academia #classic #classical literature

[an-architect-of-words]

Honestly, my favorite thing about Tartt not expressly describing who pushed Bunny is that it doesn’t allow you to make a character inculpable in his murder. Even if it was simply Henry like the text most implies, the others still plotted together and they all prevented escape. And no one stepped forward to stop the act. Nobody was innocent. But the fact that we’re unable to say for sure that someone DIDN’T physically help push Bunny drives home that they all murdered him.

#the secret history #tsh #donna tartt #henry winter #richard papen #bunny corcoran #francis abernathy #charles macaulay #camilla macaulay #the secret history theory

[shakespearesdaughters]

The Secret History Theories

I’m currently re-reading Donna Tartt’s The Secret History right now and I have several theories but no one to share them with, so I thought I would put them here to see what you all think!

Richard pushed Bunny. ​

Richard said he hates authors who skip over the grisly parts of their crimes out of shame/embarrassment/guilt but he does it.

He was not only involved in the planning of Bunny’s murder but encouraged it by telling Henry what Bunny told him about the farmers murder knowing that Henry was already thinking about killing him.

While he showed some guilt about the murder afterwards he had no qualms about going through with it and was involved in the planning of it every step of the way.

He had a vested interest in Bunny dying not just to help protect the group but because Bunny knew/implied he knew about Richard’s true background and that he was lying about having money. He would have wanted to keep his secrets. He also wanted to secure his place in the group and what better way to do so than to kill someone.

We don’t know how Bunny died, as Richard purposely skips over this information. The only thing we do know is that Henry walked towards him, Camilla checked to make sure Bunny was dead. But what exactly did Richard do? If Richard didn’t kill Bunny why wouldn’t he tell us how Bunny died? 

​

2. Julian was more involved than Richard either was aware or wanted to admit. 

I think he was the person Camilla remembered seeing at the Bacchanal. He and Henry had spoken before the Bacchanal and Julian had told him to do what was necessary.

Henry got the idea to do the Bacchanal from Julian. Henry and Francis both were interested in acquiring the land with Francis wanting to purchase the house and Henry finding the land sacred. Henry is implied to have spent more time with Julian than the others having been to his home and had private conversations. ​

He also calls Bunny by his nickname for the first time when it came to Bunny’s suicide note which was odd. He said he knew or was able to predict what his students were doing and with how close he was to Henry there’s no way he didn’t know what they were up to. Which is probably why he had to leave and did leave so quickly. 

​

3. Richard was the author of Bunny’s suicide note as a confession. He spent a lot of time with Bunny and with Henry. He could have gotten the paper from either of them. The typewriter was in the study room for anyone to use. ​

Richard was an excellent student and could have written the note convincingly enough to sound like Bunny. It gives him the perfect out in the murder of the farmer because he’s not named once in them and it implicates the group especially Henry. Which could be Richards payback against Henry implicating him to the FBI. Also it’s the only way for Richard to confess just like he is confessing to us with the book for his guilt without having to actually atone for anything.

Richard also flip flops between insisting that Bunny was the author to it being possibly someone else. We also don’t know when the letter was dropped off because Julian doesn’t mention it. But from the way he was acting when he spoke to Richard and Francis and why he initially took it as a joke/brushed it off before speaking with Henry one could infer it was delivered after Bunny’s death. 

​

4. Charles is the only other person who could have written the note because he was also close to Bunny and Richard notes he is an expert forger and the letter is one big middle finger to Henry and the only other person who had a reason to hate/implicate Henry as revenge besides Richard would be Charles. ​

5. Francis is a predator who was possibly abusing Charles and no one in the group seemed to care. He also tried to have sex/ SA Richard and foreshadowed doing it when he said “if you drank as much as he(Charles) does, I daresay I would have been in bed with you, too.” ​

6. A catamount killed the farmer, Henry lied about it so he could manipulate the group and to murder bunny. 

There’s several hints about it being a big cat from Charles bite, to the way the body was found I mean how on earth did they rip open the stomach of a grown man and mutilate him without any weapons? They even go the catamount inn. ​

There would be something so deliciously ironic and really fulfill the themes of it being a Greek tragedy if it had all been a wild animal and Bunny was killed for nothing. ​

​

7. I think Richard was there at the Bacchanal and it was one of the many things he omitted. 

He is a self professed liar, an excellent one at that. He has no problem going where he’s not supposed to as we saw him entering the room and calling the number to find out about the plane tickets Henry purchased. He was following the group around. It wouldn’t be a hard stretch that he followed them to the woods and saw the bacchanal/orgy. 

He would have been upset he wasn’t invited because of his socioeconomic background. And upset that Bunny was invited over him. ​

Camilla thought she saw another person there. Henry thought he saw Dionysus there. Though it could have been Julian it could have also been Richard. ​

He admits he omits things and considered lying about Julian, he romanticizes Henry despite the murder, he easily went along with the murder of Bunny and has a thought of attacking and SAing Camilla and there is an implication he WAS lying about something very important. Which leads up to question what did he lie about? ​

He is not as horrified or concerned like a normal person would be when hearing your new friends just committed a brutal ritualistic murder. I think he was there, either as voyeur/bystander or he actually participated and was afraid Bunny might know or would find out which is why he goes along with it.

#the secret history #donna tartt #book theory #dark academia #henry winter #richard papen #camilla macaulay #charles macaulay #bunny corcoran #romantic academia #book lover #dark acadamia aesthetic #books #light academia #Academia #literature #literature analysis #dark academia books #dark academia vibes #Tsh #bookish #booklovers #literature academia #classics #classic academia #chaotic academia #academia aesthetic

[ace3899]

the secret history altered my brain chemistry in a way not many books were able to

#dark academia #dark academia aesthetic #the secret history donna tartt #the secret history theory #donna tartt #dark academia books #classic academia #dark academia vibes #dark academia quotes #henry winter #richard papen #francis abernathy #tsh #camilla macaulay #charles macaulay

[ghostwithwings]

When you are done reading TSH (although you are never done with it) one of the things you are not sure you sorted out is "Who was Bunny FOR REAL?"

If we want to believe to Richard Papen (cough,cough) he is so hateful that it was legit "they" (who precisely,but this is other story) killed him.

But then this all contrasts with the image of Bunny gives us at the beginning, and the one of people not involved for who Bunny was a nice,friendly and funny guy.

But it is also true people tend to make people saints.

I tend to concentrate on a scene which says it all: Henry reading a certain poem Bunny always mentioned to him,then putting the grass on his heart,leaving his shirt dirty, and go away from the funeral. And Richard himself bursting out during the ceremony "Oh Bunny,I am sorry!"

To me Bunny is the one who made Henry to out the grass straight to his heart,like he is there. Would he do that with that horrible person Richard described? Don't think so.

Well. Try again Richard. Next time,maybe.

#bunny corcoran #my tsh theories #tsh #the secret history #richard papen #henry winter

[mediumguyenergy]

thinking about Bunny with all of his faults, and terrible jokes and humour in general, just absolutely loving Henry the most out of everyone in the entire world and him being the one that Henry killed with his bare hands

#the secret history #the secret history donna tartt #tsh #bunny corcoran #henry winter #hunny #Henry x Bunny #Bunny x Henry #Henry really saw the words Kill Your Darlings and was like: I have an idea #These elitist gays are on my mind 24/7 #Donna Tartt what a mind to be honest #Also off topic sidenote: I just love the idea of Rome being the honeymoon for those two #dark academia #the secret history theory #The Secret History is the only book to ever exist me thinks #Does anyone ever read these? #shitpost #shitposting #smythe is sillyposting instead of sleeping #smythe thoughts

[ccuniculusmolestus]

STOP STOP STOP YOUR MIND. BUNNY'S BPD, HENRY TURNING INTO MR. WINTER, BUNNY TURNING INTO MRS. CORCORAN. YOU'RE CRAZY YOU'RE CRAZY (IN A GOOD WAY)

ommg,,........giggling.....blushing.........twilring hiar......

#tysm! #this is such a passionate ask it makes me feel good HAHA #im so glad u like it! #theres nothing more i love than someone reading my theories/hcs and giving feedback :3 #asks! #ask #the secret history #bunny corcoran #tsh #henry winter #tsh donna tartt #winterbunny

[autistic-britta-perry]

bitches will see any character that hates having emotions or is said not to have them and go 'is anyone gonna project into them' and not wait for the answer

#it's me i'm bitches #shiv roy #madalena galavant #dennis reynolds #(YES i know leave me be lol ) #see the other side with this is when ppl have TOO much emotion they either repress it jongwoo or go absolutely batshit (anakin skywalker) #both is good #but the second ones don't get the 'are they a serial killer theories as much' #holden ford #! forgot him < 3 #many more i'm sure #henry tsh #dwight from the office SOMETIMES #me: oh I love this character let's check out what people think--> #*bunch of comments about them having no emotions and are evil and celebration when they get treated badly* ah. okay :' #JON TMA see the more I think the more I remember #cat jon < 3

[picnic-at-dreaming-rock]

a couple pages into chapter 8, when Richard returns to his dorm after the funeral, he has this dream where he's in this cemetery and he sees one of bunny's infant nephews on the ground and he talks about there being a male figure there. he doesn't say (at least immediately) who this figure is but we know it irks him greatly.

so do we think this is bunny or henry?

#the secret history #tsh #booklr #litblr #readblr #books #dark academia #the secret history analysis #henry winter #bunny corcoran #julian morrow #richard papen #the secret history theories #the secret history theory #donna tartt #camilla macaulay #charles macaulay #francis abernathy

[henrywinterswife]

Why Henry Winter (TSH) Isn’t The Worst Person - Analysis

Can we just take a moment to justify Henry’s actions even just a little? Yes, Henry was already disassociated from society and very much isolated even before he came to Hampden (car accident, according to Bunny?) and was of course uptight even as a freshman. But if it were not for Julian’s influence, Henry would’ve turned out alright. Julian pressed upon Henry that elitist notion far more than he himself originally had, he romanticized the idea of Dionysian madness, feeding into their brains how “wonderful” it would be to lose one’s self for a time. Julian knew exactly what he was doing by saying this. This of course perked Henry’s interests (to lose one’s self) because he always felt trapped in his mind, which he later confessed to Richard. And Julian knew this, and knew what would come of his lesson, as he told Richard in Chapter 1 that he ALWAYS knew what his students would do (huge foreshadowing). He knew the kind of person Henry was, knew how much Henry worshipped Julian, and how much he soaked in each and every word. Julian knew the bacchanal would lead to disaster and he didn’t stop any of it, while even encouraging it too by saying “Do what is only necessary.” to Henry. Yes Henry was bad, but he became worse because of Julian and Julian knew that. The bacchanal soon led to the murder of Bunny, and Julian there, too, knew the gang was involved in his death. Henry by then was guilty minded, but tried pushing it aside. When Julian couldn’t pretend obliviousness any longer after he saw the letterhead, he fled the scene, afraid of being tied to all the mess. This broke Henry. Henry, I feel, killed himself because he saw how all the control he once had as the leader of the group, vanished, and how his “god” (Julian) was now gone, and that he could no longer be “up in the clouds with Plato” (Bunny, Chapter 1) and would be forced to live in the real world, which he felt isolated from. Taking his own life meant seizing control once again, and living out a Greek tragedy story, which he was so obsessed with. Julian Morrow is the monster, not Henry Winter.

#the secret history analysis #the secret history aesthetic #the secret history #dark academia #henry winter #richard papen #julian morrow #charles macaulay #camilla macaulay #francis abernathy #edmund corcoran #bunny corcoran #donna tartt #psychology #tsh #theory #booklover #books #judy poovey

[slightlyrebelliouswriter23]

Why do people bring their unnecessary input into ur posts like damn it's just a theory 😭 we're out here having fun and clowning hop off our dicks bro

gvskdjsksj they want to fuck us so bad it makes them look stupid

yeah i mean look. i tend not to interact with stuff i disagree/don't vibe with. cos 1) it's not that deep, 2) it doesn't effect my opinion of the books, and 3) it's really none of my business if strangers on the internet have dif opinions, so long as they're not harming anyone.

but sometimes i forget that that's not how most of the internet functions. so i'm always slightly jarred when people add their conflicting opinions on a post that does not explicitly ask for other opinions.

having said that, it's a totally fair misconception to have tbh, seeing as virtually all other social media seems to operate on a "discussion for discussion's sake" basis. for me though, my blog here on Tumblr will, for the most part, always operate under the rule of thumb: "this is my opinion and i'm not really looking to argue with people who disagree with me".

maybe in the past i've been more lenient about discussion on my theory/analysis posts. but especially recently, i don't have the time or energy to tolerate it (like a "i'm too old/broke for this" kinda vibe 🙈).

when people ask me things about TFOTA, i'm always answering under the implication that this is my opinion/interpretation/etc. of the text. even if i provide text-based evidence, i'm not trying to convince you of anything. i'm not saying my interpretation is fact. i'm saying "here's what i believe and here are my reasons for believing it".

if you agree, great! i'm so happy i could provide a way for you to connect more with a series that we all love.

if you don't agree, that's cool, too. you can keep it pushin. there is still space enough within the fandom for you to make your own posts featuring Your Interpretations, and have fun in that space with people who agree with you, rather than sit here poking holes in the fun that other people are trying to have.

that's the beauty of fiction.

everyone can and does have their own interpretation, and all of us can be right, simultaneously. you don't have to "prove people wrong" or tell people who have an opinion why you disagree with them for your opinion to be valid. because your opinion is intrinsically valid.

and chances are, you're not going to change anyone's mind.

#like idk i understand where that mindset comes from #but it's kind of exhausting to get someone trying to discredit you on your own post #especially when that post is very much an opinion/interpretation #which cannot be gainsaid based on the inherent nature of fiction and literary interpretation #the way people feel entitled to share their unsolicited takes on other people's posts is kind of why #i've avoided writing theory/analysis posts recently #with the exception of this most recent post which is one i've been sitting on for 2 years #i spent time and energy on it and wanted to post before the TSH release #but it's just reminding me how exhausting it is to have an opinion on the internet #everyone has their opinions and they often differ - which is fine - but just because i post my interpretation #does not mean i am soliciting Yours #it's a ''this is my blog it's a monarchy not a democracy'' kinda vibe here lol #anyways. sorry for the rant you didn't ask for sfkgjf #asked and answered #nonnie #discoursey

[an-architect-of-words]

Charles is both an abuser and a victim, and I think this is important for reading the other characters.

I think sometimes when I talk about Francis and Charles as characters it comes across like I think Francis was the worst one and that Charles did nothing wrong, and that’s really not the case. It’s more that I feel that fandom tendencies make the discussions about them just inaccurate? And my thoughts here are not about memes and silly posts purposely woobifying characters. It’s like based on… legit theories and fanfics that weirdly depict the characters.

I think my issue with the Charles discourse is how much Charles is seemingly held up as a scapegoat so people can safely adore other characters in the book. And it’s all just inaccurate to what happened. For example, the concept that Henry was benevolently trying to swoop in to rescue Camilla from Charles is something I see framed a lot. And that phrasing of it seems more intended to be ship fodder than anything because that’s honestly a really watered concept of what happened, in my reading. Charles did wrong, but that doesn’t mean Henry was just the good guy in the situation. He definitely had selfish motives; he wanted Camilla, and it wasn’t pure saviorhood. If it were, he wouldn’t have antagonized/pressured Charles into insanity and kept him drunk on purpose. Camilla wanted Charles to get better— she said so. But Henry convinced Francis and Richard to keep Charles intoxicated. And he didn’t tell Camilla that Charles was still drinking.

(Side thing, this also indicates Francis could be wrong that Charles is faking memory loss— either by genuine mistake or because he’s wants Richard to feel sorry for him. I guess we can’t know for sure, but we have it presented as valid by Camilla and not by Francis).

Anyway, this isn’t exactly honest, helpful behavior on Henry’s part. And Camilla definitely wasn’t ok with everything he was doing. He lied, at least by omission, to her.

It’s very likely Henry intimidated Francis when he visited Camilla (Francis seemed rattled and said Henry wouldn’t leave the room), and I suspect he said things to Francis when they were alone before Richard called about finding Charles in the snail. This is why Francis echoed Henry’s bullshittery about detoxing being bad. I do think Camilla wanted to date Henry and that she asked him for help— their relationship had been going on the whole book— but it’s also highly implied she was wary of some of his behaviors and that she wouldn’t have wanted her brother to get murdered. I think Henry did help Camilla. But I also think his manipulative actions show that his motives were self-serving and that, by the end of the book, he’s using violence as his modus operandi. Henry is a pretty horrible guy. He has a sort of joking coldness about Bunny’s death as well as the death of the dog he killed, and he openly admits to not caring much for others. He’s a super incredible character, and I do find him charming and fascinating. But I feel like I’ve seen this whole situation with Charles become about how Henry just adored Camilla so much and was willing to protect her from evil. I’ve even seen it insinuated that everything Henry did from the start of the novel was really just to liberate Camilla. As if he isn’t a selfish bastard who did the bacchanal as means to rid himself of his conscience so he can do what he wants (again, from his own mouth).

Henry himself was clearly— and by his own intention, I argue— a factor in Charles’s insanity and using Charles’s sins to his advantage. Just because Charles was rotten doesn’t mean he’s at fault for the entirety of what happened. It doesn’t mean that he wasn’t used too. He was bad but also really sick. Henry and Francis both knew this and manipulated it. Again, it’s not that he’s innocent, it’s more that the conversation around him often becomes about acquitting other, more beloved characters by invoking the name of Charles for everything. But Henry’s motives for the bacchanal were selfish and Francis was a spineless manipulator at points.

(Hopefully I’m not strawmanning people here!!! I think it’s easy to find fake groups of people to argue with in posts like these. And I admit fault if I’ve been taking theories and posts I see too seriously, but this is my issue with a few specific theories I have seen that seem to depict Francis as too inculpable and Henry as too selflessly in love)

#talking about Charles and Bunny is hard #you want to scream to the rafters about not supporting their behaviors #I don’t but I want to correctly depict what happened #nobody was innocent #it’s weird but everyone was a victim and victimizer in this novel #it just depends on the moment #the secret history #donna tartt #tsh #henry winter #francis abernathy #charles macaulay #the secret history theory #the secret history analysis