#you don't have to like the way kataang is written

[sneezypeasy]

Why I Deliberately Avoided the "Colonizer" Argument in my Zutara Thesis - and Why I'll Continue to Avoid it Forever

This is a question that occasionally comes up under my Zutara video essay, because somehow in 2 hours worth of content I still didn't manage to address everything (lol.) But this argument specifically is one I made a point of avoiding entirely, and there are some slightly complicated reasons behind that. I figure I'll write them all out here.

From a surface-level perspective, Zuko's whole arc, his raison d'etre, is to be a de-colonizer. Zuko's redemption arc is kinda all about being a de-colonizer, and his redemption arc is probably like the most talked about plot point of ATLA, so from a basic media literacy standpoint, the whole argument is unsound in the first place, and on that basis alone I find it childish to even entertain as an argument worth engaging with, to be honest.

(At least one person in my comments pointed out that if any ship's "political implications" are problematic in some way, it really ought to be Maiko, as Mai herself is never shown or suggested to be a strong candidate for being a de-colonizing co-ruler alongside Zuko. If anything her attitudes towards lording over servants/underlings would make her… a less than suitable choice for this role, but I digress.)

But the reason I avoided rebutting this particular argument in my video goes deeper than that. From what I've observed of fandom discourse, I find that the colonizer argument is usually an attempt to smear the ship as "problematic" - i.e., this ship is an immoral dynamic, which would make it problematic to depict as canon (and by extension, if you ship it regardless, you're probably problematic yourself.)

And here is where I end up taking a stand that differentiates me from the more authoritarian sectors of fandom.

I'm not here to be the fandom morality police. When it comes to lit crit, I'm really just here to talk about good vs. bad writing. (And when I say "good", I mean structurally sound, thematically cohesive, etc; works that are well-written - I don't mean works that are morally virtuous. More on this in a minute.) So the whole colonizer angle isn't something I'm interested in discussing, for the same reason that I actually avoided discussing Katara "mothering" Aang or the "problematic" aspects of the Kataang ship (such as how he kissed her twice without her consent). My whole entire sections on "Kataang bad" or "Maiko bad" in my 2 hour video was specifically, "how are they written in a way that did a disservice to the story", and "how making them false leads would have created valuable meaning". I deliberately avoided making an argument that consisted purely of, "here's how Kataang/Maiko toxic and Zutara wholesome, hence Zutara superiority, the end".

Why am I not willing to be the fandom morality police? Two reasons:

I don't really have a refined take on these subjects anyway. Unless a piece of literature or art happens to touch on a particular issue that resonates with me personally, the moral value of art is something that doesn't usually spark my interest, so I rarely have much to say on it to begin with. On the whole "colonizer ship" subject specifically, other people who have more passion and knowledge than me on the topic can (and have) put their arguments into words far better than I ever could. I'm more than happy to defer to their take(s), because honestly, they can do these subjects justice in a way I can't. Passing the mic over to someone else is the most responsible thing I can do here, lol. But more importantly:

I reject the conflation of literary merit with moral virtue. It is my opinion that a good story well-told is not always, and does not have to be, a story free from moral vices/questionable themes. In my opinion, there are good problematic stories and bad "pure" stories and literally everything in between. To go one step further, I believe that there are ways that a romance can come off "icky", and then there are ways that it might actually be bad for the story, and meming/shitposting aside, the fact that these two things don't always neatly align is not only a truth I recognise about art but also one of those truths that makes art incredibly interesting to me! So on the one hand, I don't think it is either fair or accurate to conflate literary "goodness" with moral "goodness". On a more serious note, I not only find this type of conflation unfair/inaccurate, I also find it potentially dangerous - and this is why I am really critical of this mindset beyond just disagreeing with it factually. What I see is that people who espouse this rhetoric tend to encourage (or even personally engage in) wilful blindness one way or the other, because ultimately, viewing art through these lens ends up boxing all art into either "morally permissible" or "morally impermissible" categories, and shames anyone enjoying art in the "morally impermissible" box. Unfortunately, I see a lot of people responding to this by A) making excuses for art that they guiltily love despite its problematic elements and/or B) denying the value of any art that they are unable to defend as free from moral wickedness.

Now, I'm not saying that media shouldn't be critiqued on its moral virtue. I actually think morally critiquing art has its place, and assuming it's being done in good faith, it absolutely should be done, and probably even more often than it is now.

Because here's the truth: Sometimes, a story can be really good. Sometimes, you can have a genuinely amazing story with well developed characters and powerful themes that resonate deeply with anyone who reads it. Sometimes, a story can be all of these things - and still be problematic.*

(Or, sometimes a story can be all of those things, and still be written by a problematic author.)

That's why I say, when people conflate moral art with good art, they become blind to the possibility that the art they like being potentially immoral (or vice versa). If only "bad art" is immoral, how can the art that tells the story hitting all the right beats and with perfect rhythm and emotional depth, be ever problematic?

(And how can the art I love, be ever problematic?)

This is why I reject the idea that literary merit = moral virtue (or vice versa) - because I do care about holding art accountable. Even the art that is "good art". Actually, especially the art that is "good art". Especially the art that is well loved and respected and appreciated. The failure to distinguish literary critique from moral critique bothers me on a personal level because I think that conflating the two results in the detriment of both - the latter being the most concerning to me, actually.

So while I respect the inherent value of moral criticism, I'm really not a fan of any argument that presents moral criticism as equivalent to literary criticism, and I will call that out when I see it. And from what I've observed, a lot of the "but Zutara is a colonizer ship" tries to do exactly that, which is why I find it a dishonest and frankly harmful media analysis framework to begin with.

But even when it is done in good faith, moral criticism of art is also just something I personally am neither interested nor good at talking about, and I prefer to talk about the things that I am interested and good at talking about.

(And some people are genuinely good at tackling the moral side of things! I mean, I for one really enjoyed Lindsay Ellis's take on Rent contextualising it within the broader political landscape at the time to show how it's not the progressive queer story it might otherwise appear to be. Moral critique has value, and has its place, and there are definitely circumstances where it can lead to societal progress. Just because I'm not personally interested in addressing it doesn't mean nobody else can do it let alone that nobody else should do it, but also, just because it can and should be done, doesn't mean that it's the only "one true way" to approach lit crit by anyone ever. You know, sometimes... two things… can be true… at once?)

Anyway, if anyone reading this far has recognised that this is basically a variant of the proship vs. antiship debate, you're right, it is. And on that note, I'm just going to leave some links here. I've said about as much as I'm willing/able to say on this subject, but in case anyone is interested in delving deeper into the philosophy behind my convictions, including why I believe leftist authoritarian rhetoric is harmful, and why the whole "but it would be problematic in real life" is an anti-ship argument that doesn't always hold up to scrutiny, I highly recommend these posts/threads:

In general this blog is pretty solid; I agree with almost all of their takes - though they focus more specifically on fanfic/fanart than mainstream media, and I think quite a lot of their arguments are at least somewhat appropriate to extrapolate to mainstream media as well.

I also strongly recommend Bob Altemeyer's book "The Authoritarians" which the author, a verified giga chad, actually made free to download as a pdf, here. His work focuses primarily on right-wing authoritarians, but a lot of his research and conclusions are, you guessed it, applicable to left-wing authoritarians also.

And if you're an anti yourself, welp, you won't find support from me here. This is not an anti-ship safe space, sorrynotsorry 👆

In conclusion, honestly any "but Zutara is problematic" argument is one I'm likely to consider unsound to begin with, let alone the "Zutara is a colonizer ship" argument - but even if it wasn't, it's not something I'm interested in discussing, even if I recognise there are contexts where these discussions have value. I resent the idea that just because I have refined opinions on one aspect of a discussion means I must have (and be willing to preach) refined opinions on all aspects of said discussion. (I don't mean to sound reproachful here - actually the vast majority of the comments I get on my video/tumblr are really sweet and respectful, but I do get a handful of silly comments here and there and I'm at the point where I do feel like this is something worth saying.) Anyway, I'm quite happy to defer to other analysts who have the passion and knowledge to give complicated topics the justice they deserve. All I request is that care is taken not to conflate literary criticism with moral criticism to the detriment of both - and I think it's important to acknowledge when that is indeed happening. And respectfully, don't expect me to give my own take on the matter when other people are already willing and able to put their thoughts into words so much better than me. Peace ✌

*P.S. This works for real life too, by the way. There are people out there who are genuinely not only charming and likeable, but also generous, charitable and warm to the vast majority of the people they know. They may also be amazing at their work, and if they have a job that involves saving lives like firefighting or surgery or w.e, they may even be the reason dozens of people are still alive today. They may honestly do a lot of things you'd have to concede are "good" deeds.

They may be all of these things, and still be someone's abuser. 🙃

Two things can be true at once. It's important never to forget that.

#zutara discourse #the colonizer argument #anti anti zutara #text post #long post #anti maiko #anti mai #tagging just in case #anti purity culture #this is not an anti-ship safe space

[punkeropercyjackson]

Yeah,no,Zutaras don't care about representation for anyone other than themselves.Because if they did,why do they

Call Aang white because they don't like him while knowing full well he's tibetan and come up with every insult in the book for him because he's a femme boy

Say Mai is a pick me and toxic because of her autistic-coding and trauma responses and dosen't 'deserve' Zuko even though he canonically finds the former attractive and has the latter too

Accuse Zukka shippers of being fujoshis who 'just hate women' for wanting Sokka to be bi and Zuko his boyfriend when most Zukka shippers are queer minors who only started the fandom because Atla got put on Netflix so that's how they found out it then instead of when it came out

And completely disregard Ty Lee as an even potentional love interest for Zuko by calling her 'too much of a bimbo' and 'stereotypically girly' for him when she was written with deconstructing that archetype in mind by giving her real emotions and what it puts girls through by misogynists who want to police how we present even if it's a healing/coping mechanism like in her case?

If moc queer or not love Kataang,they get called dudebros with no basis.If autistic women instead of just 'quirky nerds' love Maiko,they get strawmaned as 'creepy alt girls who're trying too hard'.If gay and trans people love Zukka,they get the classic 'these FILTHY GAYS are RUINING our HETEROSEXUAL SPACE' take.And if autistic queer girls who're femme in ways that aren't palpable to allistics and cishets love Ty Luko,we get told we aren't even worth considering romantic options because we're too 'stupid' and can't 'really have deep connections' that aren't being someone's annoying friend.You wanted Zutara to be canon because you're a woc like Katara and had a crush on Zuko?Cool,i feel the same way about Ty Luko and so do certain Maiko and Zukka shippers with their ships but none of run around cyberbullying school children and causing unnecessary infighting over it!So be quiet,not everything is about you and at this point we've proven we're too good to be near you so leave and don't forget to let door hit you on the way out♡

#anti zutara #kataang #maiko atla #zukka #ty luko #t4t kataang #t4t maiko #t4t zukka #t4t ty luko #katara #zuko #aang #mai atla #sokka #ty lee #atla geekery #pro aang #aang defense squad #pro mai #pro ty lee #pro katara #pro zuko #punk katara #trans ty lee #kataang defense squad #pro maiko #pro zukka #pro ty luko #autistic girl summer #summerposting

[sokkastyles]

I have a question, I know we know that shipping does not equal morality. And I get that, and I really like that. However, on my other blog, that should have been my main blog (yes I am that dumb). I have talked about Aang's non-consensual and criticized how Kataang is written, however, if you ship Kataang I won't come for your throat because that's not my style. I know the few misogynists/antis on here and on Twitter, and I don't want to let a few bad apples be my impression of a fandom, that's not fair, So now I'm side-eyeing myself over my past remarks. Likewise, I know shipping is not equal to morality, but I also want to criticize Kataang because of how flawed it is and how wrong that kiss was (and other things). I have no idea what I'm saying because at this point I'm rambling. What do you think?

Well, there is a difference between criticizing a ship and criticizing canon. I don't honestly care what people ship. I use the antikataang tag because I don't want to argue with people who do ship it, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of what is in the show. I think expecting people not to engage critically with media is absolute nonsense. But there is a difference between engaging critically with the actual media and criticizing people's fanon or headcanons, which is where you get away from critically engaging with canon and move into the area of criticizing other people's opinions, which is how arguments start.

Like, there isn't really any actual concrete argument you can make to criticize zutara, because zutara does not exist in canon. It's all fanon and headcanons and speculation. And criticizing other people's opinions just makes you look like a dick.

You also have to take into account the intention behind something. The thing about the way Katara's relationship with Aang is presented is that we're supposed to root for Aang to get Katara, and every obstacle towards that end is just there to create dramatic tension for the male point of audience identification. That's the real problem with the noncon kiss, and people who are critical of it are right to point it out.

In contrast, when I say shipping isn't morality, I'm talking about people who write, let's say, dubcon zutara fics. Fanfiction as a genre is largely female-centered fantasy. Yes, even those lurid fics you're thinking of. People write and read these fics for completely different reasons and have completely different expectations than when watching a series like ATLA. Trying to say that someone can't criticize the way the show presents Aang kissing Katara after she said she was confused as a mistake to be glossed over (that is forgotten as soon as it happens) because they also happen to like reading darkfic is nonsense. There's also a long history of women's interests being policed that informs my views here, vs the fact that consent has only fairly recently become a conversation in mainstream media. You have only to look at the way the show itself portrays Katara having interests (especially in boys) outside of Aang as dark and dangerous to see this happening in ATLA itself. Or the way the creators got away with saying that zutara shippers are doomed to end up in abusive relationships while painting Aang as a typical Nice Guy stereotype who expects Katara to magically become his girlfriend (and gets angry when she doesn't) and seeing nothing wrong with it.

The thing is that zutara, if we look at the way it's written in canon as a metaphor for a romantic relationship, follows the same tradition of how fanfiction has historically existed as an exploration of romantic and sexual dynamics. Those conversations about consent are actually happening and being explored in fanfiction, even the dark stuff, whereas relationships that are presented as "wholesome" often push us to NOT have those conversations. So when I say shipping isn't morality, what I actually mean is that noncanon shipping and darkfic actually has more of a moral leg to stand on than uncritically engaging with relationships on the grounds that Aang is the hero so his goodness and worthiness to get the girl should just be assumed. Zuko has to work for his right to be in a relationship with Katara because he didn't start out from a place of goodness, and that, on its own, is very female centered because instead of starting out from the perspective of the male hero deserving a relationship by virtue of being the hero, we see the idea that a man has to work to gain a woman's respect and affection.

So it's not so much that I hate KA, but I hate the idea that we should engage in it uncritically. And that would be true even if it really was the most wholesome relationship in the world. The same thing cannot be true of zutara because even the darkest of darkfic are about women centering themselves in the narrative and engaging with power dynamics in ways that are subverting patriarchal norms about relationships by definition.

#zutara #antikataang #the discourse

[forevermore05]

Zuko and his protectiveness over Katara backfired on the show

I think we're all quite aware of the fact that Zuko is canonically very protective over Katara

Exhibit A

When he saves Katara from falling rubble in the Western air temple.

Exhibit B

When he protects Katara from flames in that same episode when she is about to blood bend that fire nation soldier.

Exhibit C

The famous Agni Kai where he take lightning for Katara

Now why are these so significant? I think these are big gestures are to show Zuko's efforts to make amends after what he did to Katara. It could be argued these are very extreme ways of making it up to her because these came at the cost of his life. But this also goes to show his character development, as he is willing to protect Katara from danger. For me, one of the reasons why I ship them is because of his protectiveness. It's refreshing to see a character that has always been there to help and to be a support system to others be protected by someone else. I think it can be very fulfilling as a viewer. This effort that was made to write their relationship was so genuine, and it felt so heartfelt as the viewer, that it just made their dynamic one of the strongest in the show. Whether that be romantically or just platonically, their dynamic is probably one of the best in my opinion.

Now, with all that his protectiveness towards Katara immediately evaporate after the last Agni Kai which was pretty shocking, as they didn't get time to be able to talk about what happened. I feel like it removes a piece of genuineness from the show that the characters care for each other. And of course I know a reason why this could have happened is because, well, Kataang and Maiko exist. I think what made their dynamics so strong is because of their protectiveness for one another. Especially, Zuko's protectiveness over Katara. When it was removed in the comics, it felt like a bond had been destroyed because a big part of their dynamic was protecting each other and being there for each other, and having that level of communication. They were protecting each other through their communication and through their support for one another.

How I feel like it backfired on the show is that it created a bit of an emptiness in both of the characters. Especially when they interacted, it felt more distant in the comics, and it felt as if they were strangers. Zuko's writing, which leads to him being protective over her, is so poignant in their relationship that once it is removed it creates a hole in a way it makes his character feel more hollow in his relationship with Katara. It feels like an effort to create a divide and an erasure of their past and how significant his taking lightning for her was. A show that is built of meaningful character relationships took a piece of its own heart out and of its own show and stabbed it in front of all of us when it came to the erasure of Zutara. So they could push the canon ships. They were willing to remove that important element of character relationships for 2 poorly written couples.

I think it creates a level of ingenuity in this show. That is not shocking as many of Katara's other love interests met the same fate of ingenuity, whether that be Jet or Haru. Where she's never able to show her feelings about these people. Which I find quite strange seeing how the show aims to create depth and talk about feelings that actually provoke feelings in you. They don't actually go in-depth with what the leading lady's thoughts are about other people. For all the sake of keeping the focus on Kataang it costs the good writing for Katara to be able to feel complex emotions about the other male interests in her life. And it leads to a rough ending for a strong dynamic like Zuko and Katara that shows their desperation for Kataang at the cost of good writing especially for Katara.

#avatar the last airbender #zutara #zuko x katara #katara #zuko #zuko deserved better #katara defense squad #anti kataang #anti aang #anti maiko #anti mai #anti bryke #bryke critical

[coccinelle-et-chaton]

Thoughts on NATLA so far (up to ep 5)

I'm really loving it!!! There are some parts where the pacing gets a bit slow but it makes up by hitting you out of left field with the feels.

Episode 4 is my favorite so far.

I absolutely LOVED this rendition of Sukka. What bisexual disasters, the pair of them.

ON THE FIRE NATION:

I absolutely LOVE the background story on the fire nation family, particularly the bond between zuko and iroh. It is presented completely different than in the OG, since the 'show don’t tell' of the original happens in Book 2 and here they use flashbacks, but it works. Still ended with me in waterworks. Also, I understand the logic behind showing all of the cards from the very get-go being that Netflix can cancel the show before it is renewed for another season, so it needed to make the best impression possible, show all the stakes but not reveal them in ther completion. I think they did that very well so far.

ZUKO IS SO AWKWARD I LOVE HIM

his expressions and reactions are just peak comedy. He is the embodiment of "😫😟" and I love that for him.

Dallas' performance is definitely one of my highlights.

ON KATARA AND SOKKA:

The thing that is the most foreign to me so far is the decision to improve Sokka's emotional stakes at the expense of Katara's. I like it but this has to be the element where the adaptation departs the most from the og. Like, in the cartoon it is Katara who bears the brunt of the responsibility taking care of the water tribe and her brother, which is why Sokka's sexism as a character flaw worked there. I can see now why they chose to drop that. With the script flipped like this, with Sokka being the main caretaker and provider between him and Katara, making him stay sexist would've been a bit too much. It is very different, but I like how they flipped the script between them.

What I did not like about this flip is that the change seems to affect Katara's character for the worse. She is not as outspoken or short-tempered as she was in the cartoon. It's almost the complete opposite. But I can definitely see the shyness and insecurity being the deliberate starting point of her arc. Now in ep 5, you can see her becoming more confident both in personality and bending. I think this was a conscious decision, but I still wish she had been written to be more headstrong from the very beginning.

That being said, I really appreciate how different the dynamic between Sokka and Katara is. I love how Katara is trying to get her independence while Sokka is still caught on the fact he has to be her protector, almost parent figure, which is a cool change of pace. One of the things that kinda bothered me as a young girl watching Avatar was that Katara was always stuck being the mom and sort of getting teased for it despite the fact no one else could or wanted to step up to that responsibility. It's cool to see Sokka bearing that responsibility as the eldest in the adaptation.

ON THE BLATANTLY MISSING KATAANG

You know, I don't hate this change. Aang and Katara's interactions are still pretty wholesome, and once they start catching feelings for each other, it will be super cute because you see where the love is truly coming from. It's not just Aang's childhood crush/Katara's "destiny", as it was presented it the cartoon. Besides it would have looked a little weird, considering that the age gap between Gordon and Kiawentiio is way more obvious on screen than it is right now when you see the interviews with the cast, because that kid Gordon is growing up SO fast.

OVERALL:

I am enjoying it very much! The adaptation is excellent. Despite some changes being quite big, they managed to capture most of the show's essence. I do believe it could have benefitted from a bit more balance between the comedy and the seriousness, particularly when it comes to Aang because he is mostly just weighted down by his responsibility in the adaptation, I don't see him joke as much, but in general and all limitations considered, I think they did an excellent job! It won't be for everyone, for sure, but I can say it has managed to bring back that feeling of watching the show for the first time again on some parts :)

#natla #natla review #natla spoilers #atla #avatar #avatar the last airbender #avatar netflix #avatar review #aang #zuko #katara #sokka #uncle iroh #azula #fire nation

[the-badger-mole]

Aang has to be one of the least popular protagonist I have seen on ao3. Out of all the main characters who appeared in season 1 and beyond (aamg, Katara, Sokka, and Zuko) aang has the least stories. I have never seen that happen to a main character before. Aang has like 13,000 stories and he is a side character in a majority, so it makes me think, why do so many people argue aang is such a great main character when he seems to be the least liked even by his fans.

This isn't me trying to do some popularity contest, it just seems like even fanfic writers can't do anything interesting with his character, which is sad because he has a lot of potential to be an amazing character.

Child who lost everyone he has ever known to war and time, waking up a hundred years later with the weight of this new world on his shoulders while still grieving his previous life, is such an interesting character, and the show did nothing with that and so neither did the fans.

You know what show did that premise justice? Futurama.

I think Aang's lack of attention comes down to him being ultimately a boring character. Yes, the premise of Aang had potential, but then Bryke turned him into a Gary Stu. And not even a particularly good Gary Stu. I think the lack of fics centering Aang have few explanations. Making Aang a more interesting character would take a lot of work. A lot more than people who aren't his biggest fans are probably willing to put in. It's easier to treat him like a side character, because frankly, that's what he should have been.

Second, fans who do like Aang- like his canon story and his canon ship- probably don't have a ton to add. I think that's not uncommon with a lot of canon ships. Most of my ships have been canon and although I have written for those shows, I'm a lot more prolific with Zutara- my one non-canon ship. I sincerely doubt I'd still be this invested if Zutara were canon. I'd still love them, but the same way I love Usa/Mamo. Content to just let the story be what it is, for the most part, unless inspiration strikes.

I also imagine some of it has to do with not wanting to admit how awful the canon made him seemingly by accident. In order to make an interesting story about Aang, they'd have to add some conflict, and no die hard Aang fans seem to be anymore willing to do that than Bryke were. Take that with a grain of salt, though. This is just my opinion. I don't spend a bunch of time reading Aang fics.

Third, the lack of Aang centered fics may actually be based on his popularity. I don't know. I think there are way fewer Aang fans than there seems to be, it's just that the main Aang fans are so loud. I wouldn't be surprised. After all, he's the most boring of the main cast, his tragic backstory notwithstanding. I only know two or three Aang/Kataang fans in real life, and they are very, very casual fans. Most of the other ATLA fans I know prefer other characters/ ship Zutara. Obviously, online Aang isn't the most popular character either. Oh, sure, there are plenty of polls that put him/his canon ship at the top, but if you look at the actual fan content...well, you can see for yourself.

#atla #anti aang #anti kataang #is aang cursed by his ship being canon? #or is he just a boring character to write for? #you be the judge #personally as long as the zutara content keeps coming i don't care who's winning the popularity contest #easy to say when my ship is the most popular but...

[tachiha3]

So here are my thoughts on the first episode of natla...

• Okay, two minutes in and we're already seeing a guy being burned alive.

• GORDON IS SUCH A BABY AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

• They made the southern water tribe be doing just fine for some reason? That felt very stupid. I liked the fact that in the og there was like... this sense of bleakness. Now, it was chatter everywhere.

• This katara is not katara-ing, kiawentiio is a great actress but the character, katara just seems like the pushover karen from the movie that shall not be named. She was just, pretty much just there. 1/10 (atleast she's caring?)

• Okay but Sokka? GREAT characterisation like I LOVE what they did to him. I.. I love it's great, he's sarcastic, kinda comical, the "i'm done with all this bullshit" face. We even saw his caring nature like when he threw the blanket at Aang. I just overall loved the way his character was handled. 10/10

• No penguin sledding 😢 Kataanger me wants to kill someone. They really just took out ALL the kataang, huh. Well you need Katara to have kataang so...

• JEE WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU MY DILF???? 😭😭😭😭😭

• I like the way Zuko is written too, like the whole "he's not some bloodthirsty maniac who just wants to hurt people but he's also not a kind person he just wants his goal". 9/10

• And ma boi's also an artist/creative journaler. Good for him.

• Aang was... meh. There was some mischief but a lot was just... bleh. No charming personality. 4/10. Extra points for Gordon's cuteness so 6/10.

• NONE of the iconic dialouges. Literally NONE.

• Bonus points for "there's no way you could get me on that- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

• Watching Gordon cry is making ME CRY 😭😭😭😭 MY POOR BABY DON'T CRY

Conclusions :

Pros : Visuals, acting, Sokka, Zuko, backstory.

Cons : Aang, KATARA, JEE, swt.

#atla #avatar the last airbender #my post #natla #natla spoilers #spoiler alert #tw spoilers #aang #katara #sokka #zuko #jee

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

zuts: Remember when the creators made fun of fanart in 08 and 012? thats why kataang is toxic and a bad ship cause bryke are assholes

me: Yeah that was a dick move AND that was ten years ago.. why would i care about the creators being jerks 10 years ago? i fully believe aang wouldn't approve at all and still enjoy the ship because i dont make thinking about bryan/mike part of my shipping personality the obesssion zuts have with bryke is very strange to me.. when im shipping zutara im not thinking of bryke or that aaron guy im thinking of the.. characters.. i thought thats what shipping was suppose to be.. but the zuts cant get bryke out of their head

And even if Bryke or anyone else on the writting team was currently being a dick to Zutarians - that does not justify attacking Kataang and Maiko fans? Or trying to force people to like Zutara because "the creators are mean, pity us!"

I LOATHE how Azula was written in the Yang comics, and the way he and Bryke have talked about her through the years checks nearly every box on "Things people that are completely ignorant about mental illness/health say" and matches a lot of stuff I had to hear in my life due to my autism diagnosis - but I don't go harrassing people who enjoy the comics because "They like an offensive thing made by bad people!"

Hell, I don't even think Yang and Bryke MUST be bad people that genuinely hate the disabled/mentally ill. They're just writers that didn't think stuff through when dealing with a sensitive topic and it backfired horribly. It sucks, but it happens.

Meanwhile Zutarians be like "Katara is 14 and Aang's love interest. One of the show runners said he is a goofball like Aang (and the other said he relates to Zuko, but we pretend that important bit of context didn't happen) AND he happens to be bald. CLEARLY that means he is using Aang as a self-insert and Kataang is his way of fantisizing about real children. And they followed their original plan instead of pandering to the zutara fandom, therefore they hate women" What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to jump that wild conclusion?

#anti zutara

[burst-of-iridescent]

Hello! (First I wanted to say I'm sorry if you've answered this before, and if so could you please direct me to it in your response?) but I was wondering what you thought of Zuko's betrayal toward Katara in The Crossroads of Destiny, if it felt in character or not for him, if not, how do you think it should have been written differently? On the same note, what are your (specifically Zutara related) thoughts on Season 3? Is there anything you would have written differently, and if so, how? Personally, I always felt dissatisfied with S3 in general, although it was still overall enjoyable. I don't even personally dislike kataang, but maiko disgusts (and I mean REALLY) disgusts me.

i know there are many who argue that zuko's choice in CoD was character assassination, that it was meant to torpedo zutara, that it was too sudden etc etc... but personally, i've always felt that it was both in-character and necessary for zuko at that point in his arc.

i can understand how on first watch it seems like too much of a turn-around, given how zuko's arc seemed to be heading, but i think this ignores two things: firstly, that the path to redemption isn't linear and secondly, the real context of the choice that lay before zuko in CoD.

it's one thing to give up on chasing the avatar and accept a quiet, humble life in ba sing se; it's another entirely to actively turn traitor yourself and work against your nation and your family. part of the reason zuko was able to reconcile himself to being lee the tea shop server forever is because it was essentially a path of passive neutrality: he was helping neither the avatar, nor the fire nation. it was the best option available to him, a grey area that allowed him to find some measure of peace without forcing him to pick a side.

azula's coup, however, destroys any chance zuko has of ever going back to that life. he's been dragged right back into the conflict, and this time there's no question of staying out of it. one way or another, he'll be forced to fight, and the only choice left to him is who his enemy will be. azula, his own sister, offering him everything he's ever wanted? or aang, the boy he's spent years hunting, who embodies everything he's been taught to oppose?

and so naturally, when confronted with a dangerous unknown, he chooses to go back to what's familiar and what he spent most of his life believing he wanted. remember that zuko is also a victim of a lifetime of abuse and indoctrination in a moment of extreme psychological stress, and it's no wonder that he picks what he sees as safe and easy (zuko isn't actually safe in the fire nation ofc and he knows that, but it comes back to the case of the devil you know vs the devil you don't), though he himself is aware deep down that it's the wrong choice.

from a character perspective, zuko also needed to go back to the fire nation to realize how much he's changed, and that the home he'd always yearned to return to didn't actually exist, and probably never had. had zuko actually gone with the gaang in the book 2 finale, i think a little part of him might have always wondered about the what-if of it all. ultimately, i think it strengthens zuko's redemption for him to backslide and then actively make the choice to change and still try to do better, further proving the show's message of how it's never too late to do the right thing.

the only thing i would have changed is how zuko's arc in the first half of book 3 is handled, because while i do get what the writers were going for, i think it was a wasted opportunity to get insight into the war from the fire nation's perspective. it would've been cool to see zuko learning about the gaang's exploits and slowly putting the pieces together about who was likely responsible for it, allowing us to see the effects of their actions from the other point of view.

book 3 was definitely the most unsatisfying of the series, because the season as a whole is the least cohesive and well-planned of the three, and coming on the heels of the near-perfect book 2, the disparity is even more obvious. it's somewhat masked by the fact that it does have some of the best individual episodes of the series, which is probably why many people overlook how weak the season is as a whole.

i actually wouldn't change anything zutara-related other than letting them have ONE conversation and a hug post-agni kai (as they deserved) because that entire arc was just *chef's kiss*. my problems with book 3 stem almost entirely from the finale and aang's overall arc, but that's probably too long to get into here so tldr: less magic pointy rock, lion turtle, and half-assed relationships, more letting go of katara, confronting grief over air nomads, and found family with hints of an actually well-developed romance for the future.

sigh, to think of all we could have had.

#zutara #zutara asks #anti kataang #anti maiko #zuko #zuko meta #atla meta

[cncozutarapoto]

fun. x ATLA

Idk if anyone else in the fandom listens to fun., but I'm a big fan of pretty much the whole Some Nights album. I was listening to it last week (yes, even the Some Nights - Intro, which I don't vibe with) because it was speaking to me in terms of ATLA characters (certain songs reminded me of certain characters).

"But Turtle, Nate Reuss wasn't focused on ATLA when he was writing this album"

Ok, and? I'm gonna have some fun with this!

So here's each song and the character I think it fits (not all are exact fits & not every song is included, but most are)

1. Some Nights - Sokka

"This is it, boys, this is war/what are we waiting for?" feels very Sokka to me, especially since he considers himself a warrior and is the protector of Wolf Cove after Hakoda and the other men leave to fight the fire nation. Also "I still see your ghost" could reference Kya, but more likely Yue, since Sokka says that he sees Katara's face when he tries to remember his mother. The line about the martyr reminded me of Suki. Ok also the "miss my mom and dad for this" line?? Come on. Ok BUT "my heart is breaking for my sister and the con she called love/and then I look into my nephew's eyes" is just SCREAMING a Zutara or Kataang fic of some sort. Come on, right?? It's just begging to be written. Overall, this is very existential crisis-Sokka to me.

2. We Are Young - Katara

Ok so I wasn't fully sure what song to give Katara and it just didn't feel right to leave her out so I deadass just gave her this one like 5 minutes ago, but it still works. It would also be AU-based, but hear me out. I'm assuming y'all are most likely to know this song out of all of them. So Katara's at a bar after breaking up with her boyfriend (Aang) and the Gaang's all here. "My seat's been taken by some sunglasses askin' bout a scar" would be Zuko asking about the scars on Katara's hands that she couldn't fully heal after Aang's firebending accident. "But between the drinks and subtle things/the holes in my apologies/you know I'm trying hard to take it back" feels very Aang to me, especially since he's immature. Then right after, I feel like it switches to a more Zutara vibe for most of the song. Also "the moon is on my side/I have no reason to run" with Katara is such a sick combo omg.

3. Carry On - Zuko

The lyrics are very angsty. "You swore and said we are not/we are not shining stars/this I know, I never said we are" feels like a very Zuko & Iroh interaction to me. And also "though I've never been through hell like that/I've closed enough windows to know you can never look back" !!!! Like that feels very Season 3 Zuko to me. Also, no matter what, Zuko is forced to carry on, whether it's with Ozai, Azula, the Gaang... Although don't get me wrong, Zuko does take back his destiny, but I'm referring more to how he can't give up. Also Ursa tells Zuko and he later says how he struggles and fights, even though it's hard. "And we talked and talked about how our parents will die/all our neighbors and wives" Zuko is very familiar with the concept of mortality, he nearly died and he loses his mother at a young age. I'm sure he worries about when Iroh will die, as well as his friends. I feel like Zuko has a line about people leaving him, but I can't find it. Ok next point "and it's nice to know when I was left for dead/I was found and now I don't roam these streets/I am not the ghost you are to me" is very reminiscent of Zuko's relationship (or lack thereof) with Ozai. Also "may your past be the sound of your feet upon the ground" feels like a very Iroh line. Last point, "on our darkest day, when we're miles away/so we'll come and we'll find our way home" is very reminiscent of Zuko's redemption arc and how he returns home and retakes his place in the line of succession and becomes Fire Lord.

4. It Gets Better - Katara?

Honestly the "yes, I know it hurts at first/but it gets better" reminds me a lot of Katara. I also liked the line about fire in the sky and snow on the ground. Not too much else to say.

5. All Alone - Mai

I really encourage you guys to listen to this song, it was really interesting. The lyrics reminded me of Maiko, especially how Mai seems to not care about anything. The girl's voice reminded me a lot of Mai throughout the series, especially her interactions with Zuko. "I gave her to you/I don't need a toy/I thought you might appreciate it/I don't like the way it moves" reminds me of their interaction when Zuko tries to give Mai the shell on Ember Island. "How do you cry with inanimate eyes/you're never gonna smile/with the way that you're wired" also reminded me a lot of Mai's character throughout the series.

(I really like All Alright, but wasn't sure who it would fit well with)

6. One Foot - Toph

"I put one foot in front of the other" is very Toph, she is a fighter first and foremost. "I don't need a new love or a new life" also feels very her, Toph doesn't care as much about the more material things compared to the rest of the Gaang. I'm sure there's more that can be said about this connection, but I didn't really vibe with the song so much. Sorry Toph.

7. Out on the Town - Aang

Okay, Aang fans, I'm asking you to stick with me here. "Cause I know I'll never take the time/to unpack my missteps and call all of our friends" feels very much like season 3 Aang, where he doesn't face consequences for his actions and Bryke kinda places him on this pedestal of sorts. Also, this is a kataang breakup song to me. The chorus really feels like Aang to me, putting his feelings before those of other people, causing a scene, there being consequences (that he somehow gets out of, but that's not today's discussion). "But I'm waiting for the day you come back and say/'hey maybe I should change my mind'" reminds me of the first 2 times Aang kisses Katara and how he expects her to change her mind on how she feels about him. Also the repetition of "open up your heart".

Overall, I found the entire album to be very Zuko-coded.

If you read this far, I appreciate you!

#atla #fun. #sokka #katara #zuko #mai #toph #aang #zutara #fun #nate reuss #some nights

[hello-nichya-here]

Let’s be real. The only reason toxic Zutarians and delusional Zukkas became so rampant is for the same reason.

Zutararians and Zukkas are two generations of the same issue.

Maiko is written so incoherently and Mai gets no development of her own. Zuko and her are a terrible match and treat each other poorly (I know the fandom can’t agree which one is at fault but I don’t think it matters).

Fans searching for a more satisfying conclusion of the fandom fav Zuko stumble into the waiting clutches of Zutarians or Zukkas who bombard them with their terrible takes, OOC writing, and admittedly beautiful fan art. Before you know it, they lose touch with actual canon.

This is all Bryke’s fault for writing Maiko terribly.

And yet people blame Zucest… nonsense!

Anon, I don't mean to be rude, but you're just wrong all around. Not only do I not think Maiko is terrible (might not be my OTP, but I am fond of it), but even if it WAS and fans had to rely on fanon for good romance, that does NOT explain or justify the way Zutarians and Zukkas not only act like their personal preference is objectively better than everyone else's but also actively lie to themselves and others about their ships totally being secretly canon but screwed over at the last second.

They do that for one reason alone: Entitlement. They're entitled, spoiled cry babies who screetch at anyone with a different preference because they take it as a personal attack.

Bryke writting Maiko any differently would not have made these people less insufferable. Hell, their ships hapenning in the exact way they wanted them to would also not do the trick, if anything it'd make them worse.

It doesn't matter what you think about Bryke as writers and people, or how you feel about the canon ships: The bad behavior of Zutara and Zukka fans is the responsibility of Zutara and Zukka fans, nobody else.

I don't like Legend Of Korra or the comics. Never sent a death threat to the people who made them. Never harassed fans of it or had them doxxed. I love Zucest to unhealthy degrees, but you won't see me claiming "There was totally a deleted scene of them kissing in the finale instead of fighting, but evil Bryke ruined it all, and if you don't believe my obvious bullshit I'll scream at you until I'm blue in the face!"

I LOATHE the ending of How I Met Your Mother with all my being, and resent the showrunners for being such dicks to fans and complaining we didn't praise their terrible writting. I would NEVER accuse them of abusing their authority over the actors and being predators just because I disagree with awful messages the finale sent - something zutarians do Kataang and Maiko fans ALL THE TIME.

It's really, really, really, really easy to not do that kind of stuff.

Be critical of Bryke and their writting, have whatever opinion you wanna have on Maiko, but let's not pretend writers/showrunners are to blame for FANS attacking people.

It'd be like going "Oh, this actress and her fans got death threats because audiences didn't like her character, clearly this is the writers fault for mishandling said character" NOPE, the blame of that kind of awful behavior ALWAYS lies solely with the people who choose to act like that.

#asks #anti zutara #anti zukka

[cerberusmahou]

We get just as much from Katara’s POV about Aang than we also do with her about Jet, if not more. In both ATLA and NATLA, Jet straight up manipulates Katara, and in NATLA it’s worse because he tells her that she only has the power that she does because of him. Whereas in ATLA and NATLA Aang is Katara’s number one supporter when it comes to almost everything (Kiawentiio herself said that he played a huge part in her bending growth and that they are both physically and spiritually bonded). So I’m confused as to why you think Jetara gives Katara agency, but Kataang doesn’t.

Let me start by clarifying that english isn't my language and I'm aware I can come out as aggressive. I apologize beforehand if my reply reads that way. However, I prefer being clear and assertive over being too polite and confusing.

I don't want to be part of ship wars either, so I won't reply to other questions like this if asked again, but I think it may be worth explaining once to avoid future confusion. With this said, let me reply to your question.

I have never stated anything like that, so don't put words in my mouth I never said.

I am a Kataang. They're one of my favourite ATLA ships. If they weren't I wouldn't have drawn them because I value my time. What I said is that while I love them I also wish the writers put more emphasis in Katara's perspective precisely because they're the canon choice. You can love something and, at the same time, be critical of it. I'm also critical of Jet's writing.

I don't think Jet gives Katara more agency than Aang does and I don't think Jetara is a healthier ship than Kataang either. You don't know why I like Jetara. Ask me and I will reply, but don't assume.

Aang is one of my favourite characters. He is kind, sweet, empathetic, funny and loves Katara genuinely. He is an incredibly good friend to Katara and one of the people who supports her goals and dreams the most. He wants good things for her and that's why I think they're cute together and good for each other.

However, as romance, their canon writing is objectively flawed. Both in the series and the comics, as their romance is writen from Aang's perspective. Katara is Aang's dream girl and the series frames her love as a reward. In fact, all the guys get a girl as a reward for their actions. That's not a problem in fanfiction or idealized romance books, I enjoy that as well, but I have my beef with this happening in a series for children. Especially one where there is so much emphasis on growth and morals. It sets unrealistic and harmful expectations for all genders.

So, yes, I wish we had more scenes of Katara talking about her problems to him, I wish Katara had more agency with Aang, and I wish there were more scenes like the Fire Nation dance where you can see her crush develop - because we get all of this from Aang's side, but not so much from Katara's. That's not criticism against Aang, and that's not hating on Kataang, it's criticism against the author's writing choice. My complaints are level-entry feminism and I think we, as Kataang fans, should acknowledge its flaws along its strenghts.

That said, I also think ATLA is a product of its time. And one that aged very well. Back then, that's how most couples were written, as a boy dream. This is a flaw, but a strength is that Katara's writing was more than revolutionary, especially considering she's the love interest.

All these facts can coexist and be true.

I get your frustration because I love Aang as well and I know about the anti-Kataang thing, but I'm afraid you're aiming at the wrong target.

I like Jet as a character and Jetara for other reasons, I don't ship them because i think he's a better suitor for Katara. I don't ship with that mindset. I have said this before, but I tend to focus on drawing what I can't find and wish to see - and there is a lot of Kataang for me to enjoy passively. Aang, Katara, and Jet are fictional characters. Anyone can write them with anyone and enjoy exploring different scenarios.

Hope I explained myself properly. If you have any other questions I'll be happy to have a friendly chat.

[kila09]

SHIPPER TAG GAME

tagged by @gloster

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care anymore?

-not really obsessed, but I'd have to say Nick/Maddie from PR: Mystic Force. I really liked their dynamic and tbh, it was that couple that introduced me to fanfics because I went googling for info on Melanie and Firass

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

-oh that's an easy one: Tommy/Kim. The moment I saw them on screen, I started shipping them before I even knew what shipping was. They were my OTP before I even knew what that was. Even at that young age, I was taken in by their chemistry, their understanding and acceptance of each other, the slow build up of their relationship...just...their everything. Honestly, it was because of this ship that i could not get into Disney fairytales because they did more to convince me of true love than any Disney movie ever did.

3. Your first fanfic belonged to which couple?

-Tommy/Kimberly. After I learned what fanfic was from searching Maddie/Nick...I stumbled upon a Tommy/Trini story and it didn't sit right with me lol. I kept thinking "Tommy and Kim are meant to be" and then I started writing a story about them. Took my weeks, after I'd written the first seven chapters, to work up my courage to actually post that first chapter.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw a fanart over?

-more than likely Nick and Maddie.

5. Did you ever get into ship discourse?

-uhm....I mean, not really? I've responded to one or two anon posts or even made a post or two about a ship but actual discourse? I usually have those discussions with my friend

6. Did you used to have a NOTP or have it currently?

-ha! Did I ever! And still do: Kataang, Klance, Hinny, McRolls, Tommy/Kat, Jason/Kim, Dramione, Romione.

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read?

-well, I'm currently reading three fanfics right now, so the couple in those are: Zutara, Tododeku, KinnPorsche

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs?

-ohh yeah: Tomberly, Drarry, Sheith, Zutara, KinnPorsche, Tododeku, DickKory, Geraskier

9. Is there any couple, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

-yes. I'm pissed they broke Kim and Tommy (rumor was, the letter wasn't even the original storyline but they did it because they wanted the fans to let go of Kimberly and accept Kat); Sheith (they had the best chemistry and the show kept drawing parallels between them and other couples on the show, including Keith's own parents); Zutara (they just made sense and I think Katara would've really blossomed even more because Zuko never would've stifled her or encourage to forego her own culture); Drarry (sure as shit, if one of them was female, it would've happen, so I don't see why it couldn't happen anyways. Plus, I feel they would've understood and balanced each other a lot better than their Canon couples).

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

-nope.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, was considered normal but now would be canceled over?

-i dont think so, no.

12. What was your favorite crack ship?

-i don't think I had or have one tbh.that.

13. Who is the couple you read more fanfics of?

-its split btwn most of my OTPs tbh.

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common?

-hmmm...idk, equality, I guess. The way they understand each other, how they are each others safe space in a way, how they can be themselves (all facets of themselves, e.g., angry, happy, messy, etc.) with each other, the way they're different but also the same in some ways

15. What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

-a bully/victim dynamic that is labeled as enemies-to-lovers; when a miscommunication happens and the person immediately runs away/avoids the other without giving them a chance to explain, which leads into the miscommunication going on for more than 2-3 chapters (even worse when it's a 15 chapter story and the miscommunication happened in like ch 2 and you're on ch 12 and it...is...still...going on)

Tagging: @tomberlylove, @the-badger-mole, @moerusai, @teamironmanforever, @luckydragon10, @ink-and-dagger, @mymcdanno, @angstosaur

#shipper game #ask and answered #mcdanno #kinnporsche #tomberly #zutara #drarry #tododeku

[sokkastyles]

EIP have some nice zutara moments but I feel really bad for Katara in that one. Also I really don't understand what that person was saying about your post, is it because you were simply discussing the episode? I was the one who sent the ask and I'm not from a "first world country", my country has been a colony. I don't think there was anything wrong with your post or my ask?

It was hard for me to understand what their argument even was because they cherry-picked the post to death so much, but it seemed like they were saying I was trying to claim that "fire nation propaganda" is a meta commentary and feminist critique of kataang or something. When what I actually said was that the things depicted in the play can't all be chalked up to Fire Nation propaganda because the episode is also meant to be a meta commentary on the series itself. Ember Island Players, as an episode, is largely the writers parodying themselves, and it's debatable how much of it is actually supposed to be an intentional critique of Fire Nation propaganda since the episode itself does not question the worst statements they make about Katara in particular, but rather uses them at her expense to get the audience to worry that she won't reciprocate Aang's feelings.

That's also why reading the episode making fun of zutara as the writers making an antiracist or anti-imperialist statement is ridiculous. A lot of the zutara parts are directly addressing both the fandom and the way the writers themselves have teased zutara. If showing Katara getting close to Zuko in the caves is racist propaganda, then the writers wouldn't have written that part of the show with the heavy dose of ship-teasing that is already there. If the episode slut-shaming Katara was meant to be only fire nation propaganda, then why is Katara shown to flirt with every guy EXCEPT Aang, even guys who the FN would see as unworthy, like Jet, and why does the episode as a whole punish her for it? An actual critique of racist propaganda about savage slutty brown women would be to acknowledge that actually, Katara can say yes or no to whoever she wants, and having Aang learn a lesson about that and Katara getting to voice why the depiction makes her upset without Aang telling her that she actually is like that. You can't just say that something is only there to critique racism but then not have the actual critique part present.

I also said in that post that the writers' attempts to criticize zutars in this episode don't actually make zutara bad, because the real Zuko and Katara actually grow closer in the episode over not liking their depictions in the play.

Even the claim that the play is depicting zutara as a "colonizer/colonized" relationship doesn't stick as an actual critique of zutara, because Zuko and Katara are completely unfazed by this except to have a moment of being grossed out by the idea of them as a couple in general. But if, as some antis have suggested, zutara is somehow inherently oppressive, you would think Katara would have more of an uncomfortable reaction to seeing herself act as the "colonized" woman, the way her reaction to being portrayed as a whiny, flighty crybaby is something that makes her viscerally upset and bleeds into her relationship with Aang.

This also lays false the common claim that Katara would always be uncomfortable with Zuko and associate him with her oppressors, because even when shown that onscreen, she shows no signs of actually seeing Zuko that way. And Zuko shows no signs of wanting to see himself being portrayed as some kind of macho colonizer who can win Katara's love, so there is no reason to think he would actually act like that if he did ever want to pursue Katara. In contrast, Aang does nod along when the play has Zuko say that he is "the Avatar's girl" and this does make Katara uncomfortable when he acts on those feelings of ownership over her. This would be an interesting critique of how racism can destroy relationships IF the show ever readdressed this instead of making it about how Katara just "wasn't ready."

So like, even if you read EIP as a critique of racist propaganda, which I'm not entirely sure we can give the writers that much credit for to begin with, KA as a relationship is portrayed as more damaged by racism than zutara is, because the depictions of zutara in the play are so silly and so easily dismissed, and Zuko and Katara only grow closer with each other as a result of them.

So no, it's not bad to enjoy the zutara moments in this episode. The way Katara is portrayed with Zuko is actually more akin to a bodice ripper fanfic than anything, and the show writers have said that they were making fun of zutara fandom. This is very different from a critique of actual imperialism, because one is aiming at institutions and the other is aiming at teenage girls. Not that teenage girls can't be racist, but that isn't where you start if you are making a real, honest critique, especially since those teenage girls writing capture fic were riffing off how the show itself used those tropes and fed off them in promotional materials.

#zutara #antikataang #ember island players #katara #the discourse

[leantailean]

I think what i like about Toko is the way the too off them play off each other. Both are stubborn, blunt, loud and insensitive to others. Both came from a posh upbringing. Among other things it leaves them both a bit self-centred, which they both struggle with. Toph wants nothing but move away from home, while Zuko does everything to return to it. Toph hates rules, while Zuko is a stickler for honor (unless the ends justify the means, which usually benefits himself). Zuko is a terrible liar while Toph can turn into a doll on a dime while also being a human lie detector. They have one good eye between the two of them. They both have so much room to grow as people. There's billion things more like that really.

I can't tell you what specifically made me interested in romance between them. I think i just already read a few fics about them being friends it made curious how those dynamic would play out in a romance.

It's funny to see you liken Kataang to Toko. Since despite it's ubiquity if never really felt one way or the other for the former, nor do i think much about it. My guess the appeal of the ship would be what those too represent to each other, which would be quite different from the more interpersonal dynamic appeal of toko. But you point i out there some interesting parallels there.

I don't really hate season 3 myself, though i'd call it probably the weakest of all the seasons. Funnily enough the Zuko gaang interactions are something i'm mostly fine with. I mostly just find the way they team up a little clunky, as well as Zuko being unable to imagine why Katara would still be mad at him and the general asspullery of the finale. So i'm curious what you think about that.

Hello! Happy Holidays and thank you for our question! And sorry for a very late answer, I really want to start answering on time next year! You showed me at the the very interesting parallels between Toph and Zuko, and I’m entirely agree with you. I’m gonna repeat what I was saying in my last answer to you. I think that the reason of why Toko is not so popular is that fandom doesn't see them right. Fandom always tries to see Zuko as super restrained, manly and steady grown up guy loaded with mature decisions and endless amount of altruism. Meanwhile Zuko is just traumatised kid, and his trauma is what dictates a lot of his character traits that fandom refuses to see. His impetuosity, impulsiveness, anger, egoism, and tunnel vision. And his sometimes happening disregard of other people. And all this melts unites with his kind heart and moral compass. And all that mess is what making him so interesting and appealing character. But unfortunately all these traits are seen as “problematic” and even ugly, and fanom just tries to ignore all of this. As a result the real and complex Zuko's character always is out of any discussion.

Toph is, usually, completely disregarded and ignored by fandom at all.She is being seen as a “gremlin” or “little bratty sister”, and people refuse to see that she is one of the most complex and well-written member of gaang. She has lots of conflicts and difficulties. (I’m telling about all this very mess, hope I’ll have enough time one day to develop this idea better)

She and Zuko are very close in the very same traits that fandom tends to deny in Zuko. Egoism, stealthiness, disability to trust, stubbornness and arrogance. They would be a great pair because their basic character traits are so similar and it would be easier for them to understand each other.

I also always loves how atla narrative connects Toph and Zuko with Aang. Aang sees Toph in the vision, so their meeting was predisposed, and Aang and Zuko’s arcs similarity is basically the heart of the show.

As you noticed, Toph leaves her home for Aang, for Zuko Aang is a way home. And later Toph and Zuko’s stories mirror each other, because, like Toph did, Zuko leaves his cruel family to join the gaang as an avatar teacher.

I really like how toko is similar to canon ship that plays the key role in the whole storytelling, Kataang. As well as Kataang, Toko grows from support and friendship, develops for a long time. It’s 100% “friends to lovers” trope. As well as in Kataang, one of the pairing starts feeling some romantic feelings from the very beginning (It’s canon that Toph feels romantically about Zuko, it’s clear in many scenes, “That’s how I show affection” is one of the most prominent) while another partner have only friendly-platonic feelings. And also Toph was the first from the whole gaang who trusted Zuko and even almost argued with others standing out for him. This is very clear similarity to Katara who always eagerly protects Aang, attacking anyone who can harm him.

Another moment that will never stop to amaze me in relation between Kataang and toko is their colour schemes that are built on complementary colours.

Complementary colours are the ones that placed opposite one another on the colour wheel. They empower and supplement each other. In visual arts, and especially in animation and character design colour schemes are one of the essential tools of the storytelling. Complementary colours are emotionally appealing, they show to the viewer connection and harmony between characters. Orange and blue - colours of Aang and Katara are complementary to one another as well as red and green - colours of Zuko and Toph.

As for Third season I think that it was the weakest and terrible. It almost ruined characters of Aang, Katara, and, especially, Zuko and Iroh, transformed their complex and dynamic personality into two dimensional cliches. Lots of people complaining about comics for ruining characters, but actually it all originates in how third season destroyed lots of things. So called Zuko's redemption arc was lazily written, he was descended  from the most complex and interesting character into the rather boring banality. Honestly after that "redemption" Zuko became much worse person them he had been before it. Again very composite and ambiguous Iroh was transformed into some mix of Dumbledore, Gandalf and stereotypical and racist type of "asian wiseman". he was stripped of anything that was making him interesting and unique. And that terrible westernised redesign of Katara and Zuko, complete rethinking of clothes and armor of fire nation warriors that was obviously stolen from some RPG?

I can discuss why 3rd season is terrible for long time. that my super unpopular opinion

Thank you once again for sharing your thought about toko! I always happy to discuss these wonderful characters with you🖤

#zuko #toph #avatar the last airbender #zutoph #kataang #toko #ask #long post #thank you! #otp #otp ship #lets talk #we need to talk about toko

[itsmoonpeaches]

What's the hottake 😶‍🌫️

Hello hi. This post will be very long. I'm assuming you mean my hot take(s) on fandom popular fics and why they are worse? If so you have come to the right place because I don't have any fear lol. And frankly, the fandom these fics are from lowkey kind of soured on me months ago so I got myself out of active fandom creation.

I should preface this with all opinions are my own and none of you are entitled to think the same way. I'm telling you my hot takes. You folks (Not necessarily you anon. This is a blanket statement.) however, will not, and I repeat will not come into my DMs, inbox, or other forms of contact trying to attack me after this. If you do so, you will get a big fat block.

Now we begin. I have been in many fandoms, but the fandom I have been in the longest and have been active in the longest is the Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Korra fandom. So, the two fics I mention are from there.

I am not linking these fics and I am not mentioning authors. That's for you to discover on your own.

I. Embers

The ATLA fandom has a weird obsession with putting Zuko on a pedestal and making him the end-all, be-all for well-written characters to the detriment of both his actual character and the characters around him. I attribute this weird obsession to this fic.

Embers is 700k written from 2009 to 2014 and the author started out fine. That's what makes this worse.

Zuko is a well-written character in the show. Full stop. He is a very good example of what a redemption arc should look like. So, this is not coming from a person who dislikes Zuko as a character. However, I end up disliking Zuko-centric fics because most of them end up like this one: tearing down what ATLA is and who Zuko is just to make Zuko a completely different person. He never owns up to his mistakes and he's so perfect that he might as well be worshipped. Zuko is not perfect. That's what makes him such a good character. To see Embers kind of just make him the wise old man at 16 is very strange to me. Zuko is not Iroh.

Let's start with a smaller bit even though this is a big one lol. The Mai and Zuko relationship (Maiko) is presented as incest in this fic. I mean. Ok? Sure? NO.

There's also a trend in some fics where characters can bend more than one element even when they aren't the Avatar. This started pretty early on in the ATLA fandom, I'll admit, but it became even more popularized in this one. "Dual element benders" cannot exist in the Avatar world. What would the point of the Avatar be then?

The idea that the Fire Nation was actually justified to start a world war and commit the act of genocide toward the Air Nomads can also be attributed to this fic. That's right. You read that right. According to Embers, it was also all Avatar Yangchen's (an Air Nomad) fault. She did something messed up to the big volcano spirits and Zuko as one of the super duper special "dual benders" had to fix it.

Embers is a fic that is written for apologists of imperialism and genocide. It has a lot of Aang bashing in it and it makes the Fire Nation look like the good guys for wiping out an entire race of people. Since Aang is so reduced and belittled by the fic, Zuko 'has to step in' because he's weirdly competent, even though at most he's been out of the palace for three years, and becomes the leader almost immediately. This is an assassination of Zuko's character.

Special Zuko gets redeemed early and he gets special adventures because he's the protagonist and he and his people were totally right all along and everyone else is just so stupid oh no let's murder more defenseless Air Nomad children.

What makes it worse is that these ideas stuck, even the less harmful ones like Zuko's ship being named the Wani.

This fic is the epitome of being tone-deaf, of underlying racism, of the imperial being "superior", and justifying colonialism to "save" the "other".

II. When It's All Over (WIAO)

This fic is particular to the Kataang part of the fandom. I know there are those of you out there just waiting for me to mess up here because I was/am a Kataang writer. Guess what? I don't care :)

WIAO was written during the ATLA Renaissance when ATLA was put back on Netflix while we were all twiddling our thumbs at home hoping we'd survive a global pandemic in the infamous year 2020 till 2021. Like Embers, it started out fine. Then it started devolving. I should probably cut it some slack since we were at the peak of a pandemic and all, but considering there were more fics that came out during that time, I won't give it that.

This fic falls prey to what Embers started, and that is that this version of Zuko does not at all resemble Zuko in the show. He's an amalgam of personality traits from Aang and Iroh. He's suddenly so wise and so all-knowing that the characters come to him for advice, even advice on relationships. Yeah, we're talking about the same guy who didn't even know what to give Mai as a gift, or even how to handle jealousy.

Toward the beginning of the fic, Katara goes to him for advice on Aang, and...I think I should have seen the red flag there but I was too engrossed in a multichapter fic that tackled what happened after Ember Island Players and how Katara and Aang might have felt afterward that I was blinded to the fact that Zuko would not do that. I think on some level, this is why fics like these become so popular. It's long, it's ongoing, and readers are desperate for any and all content as long as it masquerades as their ship. If anything, Katara should have been going to Suki for advice. She was right there lol.

But I digress.

Remember how I said, "readers are desperate for any and all content as long as it masquerades as their ship"? Well, let's delve into that, shall we?

WIAO is supposedly a Kataang fic and starts as that very much. However, the author got it in their mind to keep going. While that isn't necessarily bad, they started to crave the drama that Zutara as a ship has, and that doesn't belong in a fic like this.

We got a take that said, "Kataang is the best! BUT FIRST, let's show the other ships for senseless drama! Just as a treat!" Aang had a brief moment with Toph and the writing described his thoughts a little weirdly and sexually. Then he was suddenly like, "LOL JK."

Then we have Katara checking Zuko out as a "sibling." I could go off on this one. First of all, wondering what someone looks like naked is not sibling behavior. She also imagined kissing him while Zuko was still in a relationship with Mai.

Not to mention there is a whole actual storyline in which Katara doesn't trust Aang anymore when he has to go on surprise Avatar adventures (even though that's his job) and breaks up with him. Also, Aang gets trapped in the Spirit World or something and can't cross a bridge unless he has relations with someone. So. The fic ends with a strange, out-of-place, rated E scene if you catch my drift. So, he and Katara do the deed to cross a bridge and for him to unlock the Avatar State or something idk.

Then you have the Easter eggs which are the least of its problems. It's fine to nod to certain other fandoms and things you like writing, but when it's so obvious that it's jarring and it doesn't make sense in the world you created, why have it in this fic? It was really strange reading Pokemon in the Spirit World, but...that might just be a "me" thing. You be the judge.

Katara is super out of character. She is not the nuanced character from the show who trusts Aang with all her heart to come back. She literally said this in the finale by the way. She checks out Zuko for some reason even though they are "siblings."

Then you have Aang who might even be the worst interpretation of him I've seen especially in a Kataang fic. He is weak-willed, boring, and so dependent on doing what Zuko and Katara tell him to do that he might as well not be the main character.

This fic perpetuates the "Zuko is the only character basically" and became a Zuko fic even though this was supposed to be Kataang, and didn't even do Zuko justice.

And the Kataang in this fic? WOW. This is why other ships hate the Kataang fandom lol. The relationship here is toxic. Katara basically sees Aang as childish. You know how Katara doesn't trust Aang and how Aang listens to her always? That's a toxic relationship.

Katara is needy and insecure and Aang just wants to please her. Katara "fell out of love" with Aang, and that was weird already, but honestly, once they got back together in the fic, I didn't even want them to get back together at that point. I was reading it trying to see what other people saw in this fic and truthfully to this day I do not understand and I don't think I plan to.

#ask #anon #atla #lok #fandom discourse #avatar: the last airbender #the legend of korra