#(in queer fandom spaces I’m not talking about cishet ones)

[lesbiansanemi]

Idk there’s also something to be said for the absolute distaste and hatred of lesbian headcanons in general in fandom spaces. Like never mind that these ppl can’t fathom how a woman would ever exist without being into men, they can’t even not get mad when someone says they think a fictional one doesn’t like men. Like you have such a hatred of lesbians you can’t handle someone else saying they think a fictional woman doesn’t fuck men. Like holy fuck

#‘why isn’t she at least bisexual uwu’ #it also ties into fictional women ALWAYS being headcanoned as bi or pan or whatever #but fictional men can be headcanoned as gay without near the push back #(in queer fandom spaces I’m not talking about cishet ones) #idk. I just think it’s amusing. funny. so silly. #it’s okay for someone to exclusively like men but not exclusively like women #we’ve always gotta center the men ya know ya know #sorry I have to have my weekly be bitter about male dominated fandom spaces fic you know how it is #kaz rambles

[songhunter]

trans allegory in mystic fragrance and forbidden rain

aka: the essay no one asked for

Content warnings for: Discussions of homophobia and transphobia, and brief mentions of suicide.

If you guys have any other comments on this topic (especially KnightsPs, I'm an UNDEADP so I'm less familiar with their lore) please comment or rb or drop an ask or anything! I love talking. It's also been a hot minute (3 or 4 years) since I last took an English class so my analysis is a little rusty.

Part 1: UNDEAD's "Monster" and Queerness

Every UNDEAD song (with one exception) has the same premise — the singers are the impure, immoral monsters who are singing to a pure, human audience. There are two genres of UNDEAD song:

“I’m a monster seducing you into the darkness, give into your desires because I know that secretly you want it too” — Immoral World, Savage Love Affair, etc.

“I’m a monster and I’m so badass” — Darkness 4, Nightless World, etc.

Darkness 4 lyrics, translation by Shirayukin on Fandom wiki.

The “monster” in UNDEAD’s music is shorthand for anyone that exists outside of a pure society. By joining the monsters, you become tainted and can't return to society, but that’s the only way you can possibly live as your authentic self. In this way, the "darkness" is a safe space that these monsters have created for themselves.

This is, of course, a reference to Rei and how he feels ostracized from society -- the whole reason why Koga began UNDEAD was as a message to Rei that if Rei felt like a monster, he shouldn't roll over and die, but live with them as an undead. However, the concept of the queer monster is incredibly applicable imo. Historically, lots of villains in horror media were queer-coded as a way of eliciting disgust or a fear response, as a way of making its villain seem strange and, well, queer. (Oh, no! Look at all these horrible people ruining life for the law-abiding families!) The link between queerness and horror has been analyzed to death.

But queer people also love the misunderstood monster who's shunned by "proper" society. The gothic novels that originated the horror genre in the 1800s, like Dracula or the Picture of Dorian Grey, were written by queer authors and/or contained scores of queer themes. Do I need to go into why werewolves, shapeshifters who had to go deep into the woods to hide their wolf form, can be read as queer? Do I need to go into why Frankenstein, someone abandoned by his own creator and shunned by society by the nature of his existence alone (something out of his control), can be read as queer? Do I really need to go into why the modern-day vampire is queer? Vampires? Of course queer people will love these monsters, because they see themselves in the monsters, more so than the victims. (Also, nothing more in line with the queer experience than seeing a monster and going “ngl they're kinda hot actually.”)

In summary: It's very easy to read UNDEAD songs and UNDEAD's conceptualization of the "monster" through a queer lens. The monster is queer, and the monster welcomes you into the darkness and invites you to also give into your desire to live freely.

Immoral World lyrics, translation by Mandy on Fandom wiki.

Also, shout out the love you tried to hide, huh? Show me your truth? Show me your pride?

Dude.

Dude.

Sidenote: The one exception to this “monster” theme is of course the elephant in the room, Sustain Memories. I think it plays well into UNDEAD’s image — at least in !-era, Rei, Adonis, and Koga have always been the monsters, while Kaoru is the human that joined them (see: their Halloween costumes in !-era). So Kaoru doesn’t sing of monsters, he sings of a human love. There's also something to be said about Kaoru being the one member of UNDEAD who tried so desperately to appear cishet and experience a "normal" love in !-era. But also, it's a wedding song because the anime boys look cute when they sing about weddings.

Part 2: What about Forbidden Rain?

Here's the thing about UNDEAD's other monster songs -- they're always proud of being monsters. They're not ashamed, and they want the audience to join them in their freedom.

Forbidden Rain lyrics, translation by @/snaketaper on Twitter.

On the other hand, the singer in Forbidden Rain sees themselves as a "beast" who can never be forgiven, someone who's slowly poisoning their pure lover. They love them so much that they apparently have to let go of them, for their own sake. It's the first song that actually contains references to genuine love (usually UNDEAD is just horny).

The song remains sort of ambiguous about the nature of the relationship between the singer and the audience. It's clear that the audience does actually care for the singer, since they do reach out a "gentle hand" that the singer can't take. But the singer says, "Let's end this thing that never even began" -- are they even together in the first place? Maybe it never began because they were scared of the "beast." Or maybe it never truly began because the relationship was built on a lie. They sing about a beast inside them that they have to hide, and says that their current self -- the one they show to the audience -- is a fake. And this is something that cannot be forgiven.

It's not hard to read this in the context of queerness. Maybe it's about a gay singer who doesn't want to reveal their feelings and tarnish a platonic relationship. Or maybe it's a trans singer who's wracked with guilt at keeping their identity under wraps and hasn't come out to their heterosexual lover, so they want to break off things before they come out and taint their previous relationship.

In Love & Beast, the "source material" behind Forbidden Rain, Inogari (Adonis' character) is soft-spoken, protective, and kind. He saves the main police character in the very first scene. He's an ambassador and a respected enough member of society that he's part of the Sakurayama (Rei's character) social club. He uses "watashi," which is even more polite than Adonis' "ore." He literally faints at the sight of blood. He's the picture of innocence and goodness and all that society approves of. But in a Jekyll and Hyde-like twist, he ends up secretly being the killer Beast. In the end, the Beast is finally caught when Inogari realizes the truth and chains himself to a wall so he can be caught by the police in an act of sacrifice.

Inogari is the picture of propriety, but he keeps the Beast repressed, and eventually this Beast destroys him. Even if you try your best to act as part of proper society, you'll never really fit in.

Silent Oath lyrics, translation by royalquintet on Fandom wiki.

Another note: Forbidden Rain has a lot of the same themes of self-sacrifice, repression, and pure, romantic love that Knights songs do. Knights, in game, is a much more traditional idol unit than UNDEAD is. Forbidden Rain thus attempts to align itself more closely with the socially acceptable Knights, but it's still an UNDEAD song at its core. The monster is inescapable.

Part 3: Mystic Fragrance and Trans Allegory

This thread by @/pretty5P on twitter (https://x.com/pretty5p/status/1625958198623539200?s=46&t=lm_x5Uw5f8pKXHUoLzYksw) is a really cool analysis on the perfume symbolism in the song and how it relates to Arashi's gender identity (go read it!!), but if you don’t want to give Elon Musk ad revenue, the gist of it is this: Odette is her "masculine" initial impression, the impression others have of her, and the impression that fades most quickly. Odile is her lasting "feminine" self and the true self that remains when the top notes fade away.

Over the course of the song, the singer (Odette/Odile) grows more and more tainted, going from a pure white dress to a multicolored rainbow dress to a pitch black dress. The final perfume note is desire, the desire to live as themselves, the desire to be with the person they love.

Mystic Fragrance lyrics, translation by KYM2020 on Fandom wiki.

While the song does focus on a pure romantic love, just like Knight's songs, the symbolism of wanting to be Odile is far more similar to UNDEAD's monster. The idea of a "hidden desire" lying in wait beneath pure feelings is explored in almost every song, as is the symbolism of a dress that gets tainted by desire:

Savage Love Affair lyrics, translation by Nina on Fandom wiki.

And just like UNDEAD songs, the "tainting" of the pure is never presented as a bad thing. Note the references to the moon in both -- it's only in the dead of night, in a midnight ballroom, that one can "spread their wings" and reveal their true self. The darkness, the space of monsters, is a safe space, and in the light of the truth-seeking moon the singer of Mystic Fragrance says that their audience is beautiful.

In the original Swan Lake ballet, Odette is a beautiful woman who falls in love with Prince Siegfried. She's cursed to transform into a swan in the daytime, a curse that can only be broken if someone who has never sworn their love to anyone swears their love to her (in other words, someone untainted). Unfortunately, the evil sorcerer who cursed her turns his daughter into Odile, the black swan who looks identical to Odette, and Siegfried mistakenly confesses his love to her. Knowing that the curse can never be broken, Odette throws herself into the lake rather than live the rest of her life as a swan, and Siegfried joins her.

Mystic Fragrance isn't tragic, however.

Part 4: Living your truth

The endings of Forbidden Rain and Mystic Fragrance are where they differ. Both of their source endings are tragic — Inogari is unable to control the Beast and shackles himself to a wall, waiting to be arrested. Odette and Siegfried leap into a lake and drown themselves, because the only way they can be together is in death. Forbidden Rain ends with the singer holding their loved one close to them one last time in the rain before they leave.

But Arashi rejects her source material because she chooses to embrace the monster. She becomes Odile. She decides to live her truth, and as the top notes and heart notes fade away, all that lingers is her true self. That's why Mystic Fragrance has a happy ending.

There's a lot of symbolism in the Mystic Fragrance music video with respect to the person who loved Arashi during the war era and who killed themselves. She spreads her arms like the wings of an angel and sings in front of a setpiece that looks like the cenotaph. Her outfit contains anemones, symbols of a lost love and grief (and, coincidentally, the flower that Adonis in greek myth turned into when he died). Her greatest regret was that that person couldn't love themselves the way Arashi now tries to love herself. In this way, Mystic Fragrance is like a message to that person -- live your truth.

#adonis otogari #arashi narukami #enstars undead #enstars knights #adoara #enstars analysis #this one is a doozy #i wrote 90% of this in a sleep deprived haze at 3 am and then filled in the blanks in the morning #anyway if you have any thoughts please tell me!! send an ask or leave a comment or send a message via carrier pigeon #my stuff

[jerseymuppet]

Counterpoint: What is a female thing to enjoy or discuss? What makes something a female thing?

nothing. there are no “female things” i’m not talking about liking “female things” i’m talking about how women are treated and talked about in fandom spaces. every female character is hated and torn to shreds for not being good enough or for having traits that people love in a man. it’s how every fandom poll about best women always has a cishet man win. and loads of people in the tags talking about their blorbos who are “basically women to them”. it’s about how no one is understanding this. it’s about how lesbians and transwomen have been made to feel ostracized from spaces for how male dominated they are in every capacity. it’s about how bringing this up and asking people to self reflect makes you a terf. it’s about how if women and queers can’t unlearn misogyny we have no hope for “dismantling the patriarchy”. do you understand? did i say it plainly enough? do you need me to hold your hand?

#site of gifted kids my ass you are all so fucking stupid and I’m tired of being nice and easily consumable for you #jude.answers

[celestemagnoliathewriter]

I’m honestly sick and tired of people claiming everyone is bi if they find the same sex attractive. JKR wanted us to know who was attractive and who wasn’t, since the story was from Harry’s pov everyone has put a label on his sexuality. Like can we not normalize appreciating the same sex without labels? I remember being teased for being bi if I said a girl or woman was beautiful and it annoyed me because they automatically labeled me without asking me. Does that mean the next time I see a dog and say “that’s a good looking dog” I’ll be labeled as someone who’s attracted to animals? Just because a man thinks another man is attractive does not make him bi. Now if Harry had sexual feelings for the same sex in the book then yes he could be bi, but did we even a hint of that? No. So ppl need to stop claiming this as canon when it’s more of a fan theory.

I think there are a couple of layers to this, anon, and I apologize in advance for a long post as it led to quite the reflection on my end.

On the one hand, there's something to be said about heteronormative readings about texts, in that assuming is everyone is cishet until proven otherwise is limiting, to say the least. I'd like to gently ask you to think about the way you compared attraction to people to attraction to dogs, as that's a big leap. I understand the point you are making, and this reaction you have about being labeled as bi, attached to the reaction over the HC (not actual canon) of bi Harry, gives me pause.

By that I mean I had a very similar, sort of visceral reaction to a lot of the HCs and fan theories I found when I started participating in fandom and joined Tumblr. As the years go by I continue to reflect on these reactions, where they came from, and where I'm going next.

So let's talk about bi Harry for a minute and about some other thoughts I've had.

First, I don't think Harry is bi, based entirely on the authorial intent and the world JKR created. That's not to say we can't read it in other ways but I do think it's important to recognize that the world she created, wrote in, and promotes is fundamentally heteronormative. Yes, Dumbledore is gay, and his sexuality was revealed by JKR directly and not in any concrete depiction. You could argue that she couldn't say anything because of the time period, but let's face it - after PoA, she could publish these gargantuan books and the texts got darker. We also have to remember that just as 'men writing women' is a thing, so is 'women writing men.' JKR has admitted she's bad at writing romance. She calls several men handsome in the text, through Harry's eyes, and we do have to acknowledge the author's voice in the character.

Second, I don't think there's a reason Harry can't be bi. That is, we can definitely say he's into women (Cho, Ginny), and like many many people throughout history, they discover their sexuality later in life. There's no reason why Harry can't figure out later that he's bi. That's not saying that he is or has to be - it's more making room for this reality that I think is at the heart of what these HCs are getting to.

The reason for this is that queerness in history has been largely erased. I think there's value in trying to read texts, even if they were written in a heteronormative context, to make space for queer characters and readings. The sort of visceral reaction I see in this ask, which I shared a couple years ago, led to rethinking a lot of the way I see the role of representation and the diversity of voices in fiction, or broadly speaking, anywhere.

I do think that if we stick with a very strict reading of the text, according to what JKR planned out, then yes, we'd probably find that most everyone is cishet. But as we're occupying this space of fanfic, where we take the characters out of the texts and give them lives in missing scenes, why can't we explore queerness in them or take what we have in canon and sculpt it to find voices that have otherwise been silenced? This isn't to say they're canon - but that they can exist in canon and can be compliant or coherent.

There's another thing I want to very gently point out in your ask, anon. Why does it bother you so much?

If someone asked me that a couple years ago, I'd have said something along the lines of 'well, it's ridiculous. obviously he's straight, and assuming someone's bi or gay because they say or do x, y, z, is nonsense.' BUT, here's where I am a couple years later. Is it not the same concept to assume someone is straight because there's no specific marker that signals them as queer?

What I am trying to point to is that if it's the assumption that bothers you, then it's what (I believe) bothers those who are queer themselves. The assumption of "straight until proven otherwise" and "you must be bi because you find the same sex physically attractive" direct us to a similar pressure point. No one wants assumptions to dominate the way we are perceived, or the way a certain population is treated.

That's why, even if I read JKR's world as heteronormative across many, many categories, if I want to enter that world in a more detached sense and think of these fictional characters as real people, I will find queer characters because I find queer people in history.

Some characters are easier to do this with than others: I find writing canon Harry in the canon timeline as bi to be really hard. This might be my own heteronormativity speaking. I'm extremely aware of how frequently I say the wrong thing or word something in a way that isn't exactly right, but I am trying.

Writing bi Harry later in his life? Easier. Definitely easier, because of our own historical context. It wouldn't surprise me if a teenage boy in the 90s would struggle with, suppress, or even ignore bisexuality in himself. In the 00s? 10s? 20s? Different story.

I'm still not going to write bi Harry though, partly because I don't like writing Harry, and there are other characters that I find more interesting to explore with their sexualities.

But back to your point, anon. Though I understand your frustration, having been there myself, I would encourage you to understand why people say these things. There's a desire for representation, which is sorely needed, and has been historically lacking. There's a desire to normalize--or, perhaps put in a better way--be more accepting/less surprised when queer people simply exist.

If nothing else, like I have gone through my own growing pains of trying to be more open minded (a decade-long process at least), I would encourage you to do the same. I'm not saying you aren't open minded or accepting - let me be clear about that - though the way you phrased some things did lead to my own reflections about how I've thought about this.

Last, but not least, I do agree with the frustration over claiming things as canon versus fanon. There's a layer in the middle though, of canon compliant, that is a hot, hot mess.

Is bi Harry canon? No. Is bi Harry canon compliant? Why not? Why can't Harry figure out that all those times he thought a man was handsome was actually sexual attraction? No reason he can't figure that out and be happily married to Ginny. No reason he can't figure that out and be a devoted father and godfather.

I've been going on and on for a while. I suppose I'll stop here before my exhaustion leads me to say anything I'll regret. I do hope I've given you something to think about, and I'll be continuing to reflect on it as I keep going, as I hope you will do too.

#asks #send asks

[bluedalahorse]

I’m going to mention something I really liked about Heartstopper season 2. It’s partially about Isaac’s arc, and partially also about how they handled the ensemble as a whole and what I think worked about that.

So let’s talk about… the power of Friendship!

Isaac’s on an aroace self-discovery arc in Heartstopper S2 and I’m here for it. His aroace journey doesn’t look exactly like mine—I didn’t really start to adopt the label until my late 20s—but aspects of it absolutely ring true. “I don’t have any celebrity crushes.” YEAH EXACTLY ISAAC.

Naturally, friendship is important to Isaac, and I was pleased to see that Isaac’s friends were making sure to include him in the squad dynamic even when he wasn’t coupled off. This didn’t always run smoothly, and there are the parts where people assume he might have something going on with James, or when he’s frustrated to be surrounded by couples. But we’re also seeing moments where they pull him into prom photos, invite him to dance, include him in the group hugs, etc.

One of the most important things that makes this all work, however, is that the friend group is having all of these little moments of friendship independent of Isaac as well. We have Tao and Charlie and their flashback to friendship meet-cute and their lock at the bridge. There’s Elle making new friends at art school and how that’s shown to be important. There’s Tara and Nick going off to the side and having their own chats with one another, and Nick considering Imogen an important friend and working to integrate her into the group and deeming her as important to come out to. All of these moments mattered to me as a viewer, because it means that when Isaac’s friends pull him in and include him in things, it doesn’t just feel like the lip service version of supporting aroace folks. This squad is able to value Isaac’s friendship because they value friendship period. It’s subtle but it makes a world of difference in how I enjoy the story.

Queer representation is often talked about in terms of visible queer romance and sexuality, which does make sense and does need to be represented. That then gets reflected in how we go about fandom things, and how we often focus on romantic and/or sexual pairings in shipfic. I enjoy these fics and getting to marinate in these pairings that I ship, but I always find myself missing something. I always want more. I think it’s because I want to marinate in the friendships of a work as well.

I want to take moment to talk about queer friendship, and how queer friendship is so central to the queer community and how we’ve organized ourselves for survival. It can sound a little bit taboo to say that queer friendship is qualitatively different than a more cishet-normative idea of friendship. Still, I’m gonna say it. Queer friendship is absolutely important and its own beautiful thing, and we need it depicted alongside the relationships that involve kissing and wedding rings and bouquets whatever else.

Heartstopper season 2 has done something really special in showing how vital friendship is, how friendship exists and lives and breathes in these queer spaces. They do it in a way that feels 100% organic and real. I hope other creatives—whether that’s people making the art for our books and television and movie screens, or whether that’s us in fandom writing our fanfics and drawing our fan art—take note of how this can be done.

Friendship forever. And ever, and ever, and ever.

#heartstopper #heartstopper season 2 #heartstopper spoilers #isaac henderson #the paris squad #aromantic #asexual #aroace #the importance of friendship #queer friendship

[katyspersonal]

I respect your opinions and especially the way you defend your right to express them online, I don’t support people trying to shoo you away from the fandom in such horrible ways, but that one post you made about “me” on anon trying to support the artist that wanted to start making YouTube videos is kinda hurtful. I didn’t have any ill intentions and wasn’t trying to imply that their queerness is the ONLY thing that’s interesting about their takes, it was just that: a few simple words of support meant for specifically this person, that I thought of while typing that anon ask, I knew they won’t interpret it the way you do and didn’t see any problem with it. I’ve been following this artist for years and I really liked them as a person (they even used to be my tumblr crush) and as a creator, and yes, the fact that they take into account less common interpretations (aka lgbt headcanons) is ONE OF THE THINGS I appreciate about them. I feel like you overreacted too much and projected onto“me” things you have been resenting about people who hurt you and claimed they did it for righteous reasons. Just because I share their enjoyment of “queer interpretations” of my hyperfixation doesn’t mean I hate cishet people and think their interpretations are automatically “lesser”. I even distanced myself from certain people in the fandom BECAUSE I saw how hypocritically they treated you and it made me feel unsafe in this space. Sorry for accidentally digging out this post that you made about “me”, not suspecting that the anon that angered you isn’t one of the people who dogpiled you and that maybe they even enjoys some of your content. I don’t want to start drama with you, I just got jumpscared by realizing that you’re talking about ME in one of your opinionated posts and, I admit, felt personally attacked for things I never even meant to imply. I’m just as autistic and chronically online as you and take petty and unimportant things personally. I don’t want to be your enemy is what I’m trying to say. Have a nice day!

It was very surprising to wake up to this, and thank you so much for reaching out about this. I will add the post about my reaction for the context:

This is true that re-reading this post now sounds like I've made some very strong assumptions about you. You told that artist to make their own lore videos because "we need more queer voices in BB/DS/ER analysis videos", and the way I interpreted it? ...yeah the post IS here on how. I don't want to vague, so here for anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, witness my anger in all its ugliness. /srs "Projecting" my own bad experiences, as well as just a very unlikeable trend I do see in the fandom, is an understatement: I straight up assumed that you were possibly one of the people who at least agreed with slander, and yes, my already pre-existing paranoia has grown x4 times stronger after all the stalking and harassment. I don't think there is a way to heal and go back on always assuming the worst unless I distance from the fandom for a year or so, but unfortunately, engaging in a special interest is a bit too crucial for me as a person. It is like if I have a poor eyesight and special interest is my glasses, and sure as hell 'irl fandom group' is not a thing in my city, or even country, so

All this is the context to specify that I can't promise that "now I've learned my lesson to never assume something about strangers online and will never do it again :333". Because this is just too late. I'd say that "at least I should not post these assumptions publicly", but by coming to me to talk about you've healed a grudge that has been bothering me, whereas if I just kept it in private I'd still feel angry. So, in the end, posting it publicly.... helps? Because it found you, even if odds were small, kinda like tossing bottle in the sea and it actually being picked up by someone.

I am still sorry for hurting you so, it is not a normal situation. THE lesson I should carry from it is, "maybe the person I am assuming things about thought the rest of the context was self-explanatory". You already feel unsafe in the fandom like you said, and I really regret that I've added to this anxiety (even if by different reason and context). I used to love that artist a lot and they were crucial part of my enjoyment in the fandom. Hopefully they did start to make videos, though. We do need more people to do analysis, just that, the identity of the one that does them should never matter. By your message you meant that thanks to that, their analyses would be able to feature readings like transgenderism and gay feelings, when people that do not experience either would simply most likely not read them in the story, and it should have been obvious from the start without an explanation. But you know how it is 🤝 autism, right.

I still value that you found me approachable enough to address the post directly and explain, and I am sorry. It is a no brainer that I no longer have hard feelings. You helped me with this a lot, but I don't have a way to help you back besides declaring my assumptions 100% invalid. I hope this will still work.

#ask replies #fandomry rambles #personal #(ish) #I don't know how to apologise because every time I tried and did feel genuine they got picked apart for detecting the signs of- #-'not taking accountability uwu'. again WHO I am explaining this to? you literally just said you saw how those people think hahah #but yes that taught me that dissecting the situation (for lack of better term) is more helpful than trying to undo the harm #I know I can't take back the anxiety you've endured because of my overreacting. it is now set in history however small moment. #and I do feel bad about it. #but I am glad that you addressed it directly in my face. okay on anon actually but you are genuine so it counts.

[rollercoasterwords]

why aren't lesbians more popular in fanfiction?

hello literally no one asked for this but i feel like i’ve seen a lot of discussion about the disparity between mlm and wlw fanfiction, and i simply. have thoughts about it lol. this is mostly focused on marauders fanfic bc that’s really the only fanfic community i’m plugged into, but i feel like it probably applies to others as well -- this is definitely gonna get long so if u don’t feel like reading a lil essay abt it then just scroll past :) 

anyway! i do think the prevalence of gay ships in fanfic is a particularly interesting conundrum given that the vast majority of people who read + write fanfiction are women -- and, particularly in the marauders fandom, i’d guess that the majority of those women are queer. so i guess the question i find interesting can be boiled down to: why do so many gay women gravitate towards stories about gay men?

generally, i tend to see a mixture of three answers in conversations about this question.

1. there’s more canon info about male characters

essentially, i see a lot of people say something along the lines of, “well, it makes sense that there’s more fanfiction written about men, because in the stories these characters are originally from the male characters are main characters/much more developed than female characters.” and i think this answer makes sense, but i don’t necessarily think it’s a sufficient explanation on its own for two reasons:

fanfiction can branch quite drastically away from canon, and there are plenty of popular fics where canon is completely disregarded. even if writers have very little canon information about a character, that doesn’t necessarily mean the character won’t be loved in fandom spaces. which leads to the second reason...

in the marauders fandom specifically, male characters with almost no canon information have become very popular. i feel like i’ve especially seen this more recently with characters like barty crouch jr. and evan rosier, but even some of the bigger marauders characters -- peter, regulus, etc -- have very little information about their actual characters in canon. additionally, there are characters like lily evans, narcissa malfoy, andromeda tonks, etc, who, if we’re going based on the amount of canon information, seem like they should be more popular. 

however, none of this is to say that certain characters should be more or less popular--this is just to point out that i don’t think “there’s more canon information” is a sufficient explanation on its own for why mlm fics are so much more popular than wlw fics. i certainly think it accounts for some of the disparity, but i also think there’s more going on!

2. “fetishization” of gay men

i’ve also seen a lot of people throw out the answer that “it’s because women are fetishizing gay men,” and i...just don’t really think this is the issue that some people say it is. honestly, i think that in most of the cases where i’ve seen people saying this, the term fetishization is being misused. in the marauders fandom, at least, i’d argue that the vast majority of fanfiction is not fetishizing gay men, in that it isn’t reducing gay men to sex objects--in fact, i think that oftentimes the opposite is true. even in heavily explicit fanfiction, the characters are often built out as well-rounded people, and there’s almost always an equal emphasis on the relationship and emotional dynamic between the two characters being shipped together. 

i think when people talk about the fetishization of mlm couples, a lot of times the person they’re arguing about is this imaginary cishet woman who’s like foaming at the mouth to read about gay men fucking each other while simultaneously not really viewing gay men as real, complex people--and sure, maybe there are some women like that. but something that i think this straightforward answer of “fetishization” misses is that there is fanfiction catered specifically to straight women, and it often looks very different from queer fanfic. like, i can almost always tell when i’m reading fanfic whether it was written by a straight woman or not, because heterosexual desire and queer desire manifest in very different ways. and my impression is that the majority of queer fanfic is catered towards other queer people--even if straight women read it, too, i don’t really think they’re the main audience. i haven’t tried to research statistics on this or anything; it’s all just based on my impression of this one specific fandom space, and i’m not trying to claim otherwise. but in the marauders fandom, at least, it seems as though the majority of the readers are queer women; in fact, many writers, like myself, are actually lesbians who literally hold zero attraction to men. so why do we still love reading and writing about gay relationships?

3. *vague hand-waving* misogyny 

once we get past these first two explanations, i typically see people saying something along the lines of, “well, of course mlm fics are more popular than wlw fics, because of misogyny!” and then just...leaving it at that. and it sort of drives me a little insane, because i’m always like, yes, but WHY??? that’s like someone asking why the sky is blue, and answering, “well, because of science.” like--okay, yes, but WHAT science? why?? what’s actually happening??

so, if you’ve made it this far into my little esay, here are some thoughts that have been marinating in my brain about some specific ways in which misogyny effects the popularity of gay vs lesbian fanfiction (and, in some ways, gay vs lesbian media more generally). essentially, there are two big things that it boils down to, in my mind:

the inherent alientation of womanhood

the universality of queer desire

and those two things kinda play off each other, but i’m gonnna take them one by one!

1. womanhood as a process of alienation

so, this is something that i’ve been turning over in my mind over the past few months. generally, i try to avoid broad generalizations about women/womanhood, because i think of gender much more as a socialized series of performances rather than any kind of fixed identity category, however! that being said, i do think that womanhood is, in many ways and for a majority of people, a gradual and unrelenting process of alienation from one’s own body, sexuality, and desires. 

what i mean by that is that in a patriarchal society, becoming a woman means being taught constantly and consistently that you are meant to center men in your life (which is one reason that so many lesbians have such a complicated relationship to gender--because removing men from the equation essentially knocks out one of the pillars propping up “woman” as a gender category). teaching someone to be a woman means teaching them to ignore and suppress their own sexuality, physicality, and desires in favor of men’s. i think many people raised to be women learn to think of their own sexuality as an object of male desire; we are told that we should want to be wanted, but not that we should want. learning to be a woman oftentimes means learning to separate yourself from your own desires--women aren’t supposed to be hungry, or messy, or loud, or ugly, or ambitious, or sexual.

obviously, everyone raised in a misogynistic society internalizes that misogyny; so i think that for most people taught to be women, there’s this shared experience of alienation from your own body. we are systematically and purposely cut off from lesbian desire, from sapphic desire--from any kind of desire or sexuality where men are not a focal point. this makes it understandably difficult to envision rich, complex, sexual and romantic relationships between women, because anyone taught to be a woman has to spend a significant amount of time unlearning internalized misogyny in order to truly embrace queer desire.

so, yes; i think that mlm fics and gay ships are more popular at least in part because of misogyny. but i don’t think it’s this conscious, purposeful thing that queer women should be condemned for--in many ways, i think that gay fanfiction actually provides queer women (especially young queer women) a space to explore queer relationships and queer desire outside of the patriarchy that hangs like a specter over any relationship involving women. for queer women who are still working through internalized misogyny, who still struggle to envision romantic and sexual relationships between women that exist outside the bounds of patriarchal narratives, i think it’s understandable that gay relationships in fanfiction have become this sort of refuge. we are taught to center male desire and sexuality; we experience queer desire that we must learn to stop suppressing; when we look at these two ideas together, i don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the exploration of gay relationships in fanfiction is oftentimes a way for queer women to explore their own sapphic desire.

2. the universality of queer desire    

this first point leads me directly into my second, which is that gay fanfiction can oftentimes provide a space to explore lesbian desire specifically because queer desire has a unique sort of universality--it is outside the boundaries of cishet norms and narratives, which often leads to different expressions of desire and different relationship dynamics. for example, as a lesbian, i feel that my lesbian relationships generally have much more in common with gay relationships than they do with straight women, simply because the dynamics of typical heterosexual relationships are so far removed from my own experiences with sex, romance, and dating.   

something that strikes me is that, in many instances, these fanfictions about gay men read to me, a lesbian, as lesbian romances--i find myself reading about these characters and thinking that the way they relate to one another, the way they process emotion, etc, feels very much like a lesbian relationship. i think part of that is because many of them are written by queer women, but it’s also because of this overarching universality of queer desire.

anyway, i don’t really have a final point or conclusion that i set out to make with this. i guess i just think it would be nice to move the conversation a little further past “wlw fics are less popular because of misogyny!”, y’know? at the end of the day, i don’t think it’s inherently harmful that mlm fics/ships/media are so popular in queer spaces, and more often than not i think it’s actually an important medium for all kinds of queer people to explore desire + sexuality + gender + relationships through stories written by other queer people. however, i do think it simultaneously calls attention to the ways in which internalized misogyny and compulsory heternormativity can make it very, very difficult for people to envision lesbian desire and lesbian relationships, and i do think it’s important to like...do some soul-searching, y’know? like, just on an individual level, especially if you’re a queer person, and especially if you’re a queer woman--if you struggle to get into wlw fics/media the way you get into mlm fics/media, it doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong, and it doesn’t make you a bad person, but it does mean that you should probably take some time to think about why that might be! what kinds of things did you learn to internalize that might be preventing you from embracing lesbian/sapphic/wlw (whatever u wanna call it) desire? and i say this as someone who had to spend years coming to terms with their own lesbian desire, who knows how difficult it can be to work through the layers of internalized misogyny, internalized homophobia, and compulsory heterosexuality. but at the end of the day, a lot of this fanfiction we’re reading is all tied together by the same elements of queer desire <3 

this is by no means meant to be a comprehensive or even particularly academic analysis of the situation--i’ve just been thinking about these questions a lot lately and wanted to write down some thoughts to help me organize them. if u actually took the time to read all of this and have any thoughts or ideas to share i am clearly dying to discuss + my dms + ask box are always open :)    

#i cannot respond to comments unfortunately #but if literally anyone wants to talk to me about this or has any other ideas abt why this disparity might exist i would love to hear!! #like it genuinely is such a fascinating question to me #i want to unpick it like a tangled ball of yarn #marauders #fanfiction #lesbian fanfiction #gay fanfiction #wlw fics #mlm fics #idk what else to add to these tags #txt #ranting and raving

[r0sensfw]

Hate to start some discourse but it’s becoming harder and harder to stay silent on my feelings regarding kink and fiction. I watched my sister isolate herself from the Mandela Catalogue fandom as they made her feel like shipping two characters was a hate crime against the creator. (I’m not looking for drama, just talking about fandom experience)

I’ve somehow become more insecure over what will get me harassed on the internet. One of those big things being my views on kink, fanfiction, and shipping.

I’ve been told all my life how I’ve been meant to feel

Man in the gimp suit is dangerous

Human pups, handcuffs, pegging, bondage, S&M are punchlines and shock value

Fanfiction is for stupid gross teen girls to fetishize gay men or for pathetic adults to project their worst fantasies onto

Shipping isn’t queer, it’s homophobic in fact

Who would ship two best friends, NOTHING IS SAFE!!!

I’ve been told, years and years and years how I should feel about sexuality, how I should feel about my own sexuality.

I’m creating my own space, one free of what my mom and the other neroutypical cishet adults told me my sexuality had to be!!

#queer ns/fw #kink positive #pro kink #pro fanfiction #yes I’m gonna tag it #proship #autism and kink #nerodivergent #ramble post #I grew up in the faux liberal 2010s where men getting r@ped was funny and they still made jokes at the expense of fat people #that Pomeranian was right Kink is very autistic

[padfootastic]

Do you think fandom can be sexist towards female characters?

I see the Jegulus fandom wanting to write Lily completely out of the picture and wolfstar people generally hate Tonks.

oof. i have…a very rambly, very long answer to this bc i don’t think it’s a simple yes/no so i’ll put this under a cut for people to skip if they wanna, yeah?

so, straight off the bat, im not a fan of using pejorative labels for writers in general but particularly for fanfic authors. for one, we don’t know who’s writing behind the screen + what their motivations/inspirations/intentions are. two, everyone writes for a different reason. perhaps someone is venting, or projecting, or using it as a therapeutic release; often it’s lifted straight out of their own life. so i try not to judge the text in front of me based on stuff like that. (this leeway could also be because i used to read a lot of bashing fics where the majority of them are women, i think, and often with the flimsiest, most irrelevant reasons that are straight out of the Sexism Handbook of Traditional Patriarchy too so maybe i just started rationalising it for myself? idk)

second, i think it’s pretty well known that the majority of fandom is some combination of women/queer/neurodivergent/POC etc etc. so applying the lens of ‘critiquing mainstream media produced by cishet men’ doesn’t…really work here, i don’t think. the way we would analyse sexism in say, marvel or disney won’t (shouldn’t?) be the same as how we do it for fandom imo.

that being said, it’s still entirely possible for certain ‘problematic’ tropes/ideas to be prolific, right? this is where the sexism u mentioned comes in. i prefer to use symptomatic language here so saying ‘xyz has sexist/x-phobic elements’ instead of an absolute ‘the work/author is sexist/x-phobic’ because i don’t think the latter is either useful or accurate. when it comes to this, there’s one really important thing i look for here. is the author aware of what they’re writing? (which is a whole other issue tbh, complete w why i feel more comfortable around darkfic authors but let’s not go there rn lol) because a lot of the authors who write out lily or tonks in these ships do so knowingly bc it’s the only way for their plot to exist/evolve. sure, you can have an amicable resolution but will it provide the conflict u need? will it make for good entertainment? will it lead to 3D characters?

stories often need an antagonist and is it unfortunate that women often end up filling the role? sure. absolutely. i’d argue that one of the reasons we have so many mlm ships compared to wlw is because of mainstream media giving us better written men more often than not. and i think it’s totally fine to feel angry/frustrated/upset about that, especially when it carries over into fandom which is supposed to be a fun, inclusive, safe space. i get really frustrated at a lot of wolfstar discourse that entirely ignores the possibility of bisexuality. the vehement insistence that that a certain character can’t be with a woman bc they’re queer, for example, rubs me the wrong way and i think what you’re mentioning is something similar too. but, i always stop myself from assuming malicious intent on the author/fic’s part bc just because they write/believe something in fiction doesn’t make it true, ykno? and i can always step back and go look for something else that’s more to my liking.

and i think every creator would have something like this in their works tbh. i certainly do. i know for a fact that the way i’ve written lily in shovel talk and the patronus fic isn’t exactly favourable to her—even though i’ve tried to be neutral, she has definitely come out looking worse than the others and i admit that that’s on me. i wanted a certain dynamic & characterisation for james & sirius and this was the way to achieve it. people are allowed to dislike that. but they must also acknowledge that i’m allowed to write her that way.

i think, more often than not, we end up looking at this in simplistic binaries. ‘i like this -> good -> allowed to exist’ or ‘i don’t like this -> bad -> shouldn’t exist.’ i’m…not a fan of that. my opinion is we should advocate for more mindfulness within our writing but allowing writers to craft their stories the way they want (bc ultimately fic is supposed to simple and fun and not something you agonise over). and this is all interlinked, right? because the moment we say ‘ok. this might be portraying women in an icky manner, i don’t like it but the author can do that bc it’s a piece of fiction’ then u open the gates for more responsible reading & writing. authors would feel comfortable tagging their works with this, they can discuss it openly w/o being worried about reproach or ‘being cancelled’ and readers can make a more informed decision. but if you go in guns blazing with ‘ugh this fandom is so sexist, look at how it’s treating its women’ then you’ve pretty much killed all possibility for dialogue and improvement and that’s not helping anyone.

this kind of also ties in with my previous point about having differing standards for mainstream vs niche mediums of art. fanfiction authors are often, ironically enough, held to higher standards than published/paid creators which is interesting bc u can argue that their work doesn’t even have the kind of social impact that mainstream media does.

anyway. i’ve gone off on enough tangents here lol but i think i’ll end it with this: yes, women definitely come off worse in certain spaces, especially when they have to compete with mlm ships but i think that’s a conscious decision that authors take within the bounds of the material they have. as long as they are conscious of the fact/acknowledge it, i think likening it to sexism isn’t fair because u can’t have a story without plot devices, uncomfortable as they might be. if you see a pattern in someone’s stories of women being constantly shunted aside negatively, then i think u can take note of it and avoid it. maybe have a conversation with the author if they’re willing to talk about their creative choices. i feel like that’s the most u can do when it comes to online writing where u have no idea who’s on the other side of the screen.

#fandom wank #just in case #i’ve actually thought about this a lot tbh #partly bc of my own reading habits (present + past) #partly bc it crops up as ‘discourse’ far too often for my peace of mind #and i tend to stay out of it bc i don’t like the way in which unfolds #it feels too cult-like for me most of the time #and everything is always taken in bad faith #but yeah. it doesn’t mean i don’t have Thoughts™️ on it #(when do i not lol) #i hope ive managed to explain things decently here? #if there’s anything that’s…off then hey dialogue is always welcome #as long as everyone treats it in good faith and doesn’t attack anyone personally #i edited this 3 times to cut down on useless stuff and i still feel like i’m just rambling aimlessly here smh #not having an absolute answer was a deliberate choice and not me waffling about #bc i don’t think u can just narrow it down to a yes or no #but that’s just me #i know some people have stronger opinions on either side #which is totally valid tbh #it’s everyone’s individual experience that forms their view #and mine caused me to arrive at this #i can also acknowledge i’m often in a headspace to be able to take this sort of neutral/good faith approach #bc i don’t rly have triggers or squicks #that’s not the case for everyone so some would feel more strongly about this #so having a variety of opinions comes in handy here #pen’s asks

[simp-ly-marvelous]

Rant Ahead-

The dudebros complaining about the most recent She Hulk post credit scene is so fucking hilarious to me because these guys are the densest motherfuckers out there.

Like, on one hand you’ve got all these grown ass men whining and crying over a POST CREDIT scene for a fun character from COMIC BOOKS in a FICTIONAL world throwing it back with Megan Thee Stallion. Like,, everything else that has happened thus far within the MCU was fine and excusable but god forbid that She Hulk twerks, like what??? “But it’s cringy” man shut the hell up, what’s cringy is you being a bitch baby over something as harmless as this.

Which bring me to my next point, it’s the M FUCKING C U. It’s GOING TO BE CRINGY. She Hulk dancing is the least of your worries you dumb fucking bitch. Look, I enjoy MCU movies, I do, but I’m not going around pretending like it’s peak cinema. They’re entertainment, they’re movies to just watch and enjoy and to provide you with an escape to a more marvelous universe than our own. It’s YOUR own fault that you have this ideology that MCU movies are on some pedestal and therefore things like women dancing in one single scene brings it off that high and mighty pedestal. Get a life!

Then on another hand they show what little comprehension and critical thinking skills they have (big surprise there) by comparing this post credit scene to a comedy lawyer show to big climatic events that took YEARS in the making, such as Tony’s sacrifice and whatnot and say shit like, “Oh, what a downgrade.” Like no? That’s not how this works? The end credit scene where Captain America stood in front of a white screen and talked for like two minutes was fine but She Hulk can’t dance with Megan Thee Stallion?? We have She Hulk throwing it back on screen with MEGAN THEE STALLION and you want to COMPLAIN???

Am I saying that She Hulk is perfect? No, I’m not. However, this ongoing pattern of the dudebros continuously complaining about Phase Four projects is so frustrating and hilarious at certain times. Like if these fictional shows about made up characters from comic books you most likely don’t read really bothers you, then do everyone a favor and actually commit to your comments of, “I’m not watching another MCU thing again.” They keep saying shit like that yet they keep coming back. “Mid. I’m not watching this shit.” Okay?? So don’t?? How about you go get a hobby or something? Or if you don’t like canon take to fanfic like everyone else you privileged bitch.

One day I just hope that stuff like Marvel and Star Wars becomes so diversified that it gets rid of dudebros as a whole.

I hope that there is just so much queerness and color in mainstream media that all these cishet (mainly white) men just leave their toxic selves out of the fandom and its space. Man, I WISH the MCU was as diverse as they’re making it out to be. Boohoo there’s a woman on the screen, aw waa-waa someone who isn’t European looking, oh no a two second clip of something gay that can be easily edited out for other countries? Goddamn.

Anywho, that’s just a little rant because I can’t believe people were upset over seeing She Hulk twerk. I thought it was great, I loved it. If they had her being her muscular comic book self I think I would’ve physically swooned, but nothing’s perfect.

#she hulk #she hulk attorney at law #mcu #she hulk spoilers #jennifer walters #she hulk series #also Bruce saying bruh was the funniest thing to me #i say bruh a whole lot as a reaction so hearing him say it gave me whiplash #if the dude bros hate it #imma have it

[theangryjikooker]

just read your last anon and I’m usually just a silent reader, and tbh as someone who believe Jikook are a think I disagree with you a lot, but anyways I like reading your blog you seem very down to earth and I like that and I get your frustration. it’s not the first time that I see similar messages and i know I’ll get bashed for saying this but I don’t even believe half of the ppl out there pretending they’re queer (what does that even mean at this point) are anyway. I’ve been in shipping spaces for a long time, I share this "hobby" with a friend of mine and so many "cishets" as they say use the queer umbrella as a shield because we know damn well rps mlm shipping has been thrown upon (sometimes for good reasons, and often times due to misogyny, but that’s just my opinion ). I know some ppl are gonna get mad at this and call me names, not sure why I even send this but as a "cishet" (I usually refuse to use the word cis but that’s another can of worms I won’t open here) I’m seriously done with this mindset. i’m free to make assumptions and ship whoever I want or deny any ship I want to deny like anyone else and being part of the lgbt community is not a requirement to ship, what’s with people acting like the thought police here… ha sorry I needed to vent I guess, that post made me mad

Yes, it's fine to disagree with me! A lot of people who are following me don't agree with everything I have to say, if any at all. The only reason why I know this is that I've seen some familiar names interact with bloggers I 100% would not get along with, but that's really none of my business. I'm not here to change minds.

I think those followers tend to be curious about what I have to say about some aspect of Jikook. Sometimes it'll make them think; most of the time they think I'm full of shit. I have my own critiques of hardcore shippers/supporters, so I fully expect that my existence throws a wrench in all of that and incites aggression in others. All I do is talk about how I feel. Anyone who chooses to interact with me are doing so of their own volition and are responsible for their own actions.

I don’t even believe half of the ppl out there pretending they’re queer (what does that even mean at this point) are anyway. So this POV is a bit of a slippery slope. If we cast doubt on everyone and everything because a fraction of one's community is encouraging those feelings, it doesn't help anyone. Personally, I haven't "met" general ARMYs or shippers who have pretended to be queer, but I've read about this happening. I think the real culprit is the anonymity of the Internet and what kind of behaviors that's enabled over the years, but that's another can of worms I don't want to get into.

To be fair, I understand queer shippers who are tentative about shipping occurring amongst cishets, which is valid, but the way some of them go about protecting what they consider an exclusively LGBTQ+ activity can be extremist and nonsensical, in my opinion.

(Part of me also suspects that this overly passionate dedication amounts to how important fandom is to a person. I prioritize and cherish my real life more than I ever could about fandom, but fandom is also a much needed escape for others, so I can see how that might play a part in people's motivations and how they might go about protecting their safe space.)

Male, female, non-binary, gay, straight, bi, asexual, whatever your sexual or gender identity–don't be an asshole and don't be an idiot, that's all I'm saying. If you're cishet and shipping two males/two females, just be mindful about how you're going about it is all. Shipping because you genuinely care about the individuals involved and believe in who they are as human beings vs. fetishizing them (unintentionally or otherwise) can get a little blurry. (Fetishization is not the only issue that occurs in this cishet vs. lgbtq+ in fandom discourse, but it's the most common and most talked about.)

In my opinion, attraction isn't so discerning; sometimes people just gravitate to whomever they like. If cishets can recognize that attraction is just a feeling that can occur among and across different genders and sexualities, I don't see how this is a bad thing at all.

__

* Sorry, I talk about "cishets" like I'm othering them, and I don't really care much for that attitude, but for distinction purposes, it is what it is.

#TAJ asks #anon submission #jikook #kookmin #jikookers #kookminers #bts shipping #bts fandom

[labyrinthphanlivingafacade]

Hi love

I think you misinterpreted the mlmxreader post as an attack on people that write Corirose

I’m the anon that said that and while I don’t understand the appeal of it, I’d never want to keep people from writing what they want. You’re allowed to ship the Corinthian with whoever you want, obviously. I’m just mad that mlm and nblm finally got a a cool and interesting character and people immediately jumped to only shipping him with fem characters/ocs or only writing f!reader because he’s suddenly pansexual. I’m literally pansexual myself but I’m fucking frustrated that everything is catered to f!readers or cishet women in general. We have this character that’s openly interested in men and they just erase that part of him? As long as you recognize all aspects of his sexuality I’m fine with any ship, but don’t erase the parts that don’t include women.

You keep doing what you want to do!!

so glad to have your permission /s

anyways if you'd actually read any of the fic i wrote, you'd know that i do acknowledge his sexuality... & i write rose as being bi herself.

as for fandom being catered to women,,, i would hope the spaces they built would do that. even if frustrating to trans & queer ppl like us. like tumblr & ao3 fandom spaces were built by them & you dont think theyre gonna go buckwild? weird.

also of all the things ive posted on tumblr tagged "the corinthian" that have to do w corirose as ship are... *checks blog* brief analysis of a scene they share in the show, pages from the original comic that imply they have a red riding hood/the wolf coding, pages from the original comics that parallel one another (it's the alley fight scene if you're curious, which you arent bc if you were you'd have seen that the dirty cishet writing the ship you dont like is indeed a queer like you)

additionally there aren't really people that ship corirose. there's a person. me. im literally the only one writing for them or posting about their entwined arcs in the show. which is why i took offense. im literally the only one here. ive looked on ao3. there are 7 fics tagged as corirose. 2 are the corinthian/dream/rose, 1 is a one off that's like 1k words long, & the other 4 fully written fics are me. you were talking about me, which is fine. but next time dont be a little bitch & just tag me. maybe come off anon. or, if you're conflict averse, just fucking dm me if my work bothers you.

you asked why i didnt ship the corinthian w carl, the roommate, instead of rose. i ask why you think that would be interesting. feel free to answer that on anon or private dms if you'd like. i dont post screenshots. bc i dont ship rose & the corinthian bc she's a woman. i ship them bc he's a nightmare & she's the fucking VORTEX. bc he spends half of season 1 looking for her & being nice to her brother & trying to get her to kill dream which i wish she had bc it is utter BULLSHIT that both dream himself & the narrative insist that her death be a nobel sacrifice for the fate of the universe. that dream doesn't even really seem to fight for her. doesnt ask his siblings or parents for help so he doesnt have to kill her. just accepts the utter cosmic injustice that is murdering rose walker for no crime other than being born the vortex. the corinthian may have wanted her to live so he could be free of dream, but he wanted her to live. & rose as the vortex def has the power to destroy him, but probably never would bc she is an infinitely better person than dream. that is just so,,, COOL to me.

#& tbh i think rose walker could use someone who would enable her to be a bit selfish #anyways hi whatever [REDACTED] simp from the server sent me this

[bigbroadvice]

One of my friends is making me uncomfortable. But it's a problem I don't think can be resolved easily or quickly.

I'm queer (my prns are they/it), she isn't. And we both are heavy into fandom spaces. She only ever ships gay men and constantly says that wlw pairings are boring or not as interesting. While I understand having separate interests and enjoying different things…

This seems like an all-too-familiar experience where gay men relationships are being more… easily digestible(?) for white allow cishet women.

But my experience of shipping gnc or wlw pairings are somehow and without reason looked on by even my own friend as being boring and unappealing.

I'm not sure what to do or how to feel. I don't want to stop being her friend, we’ve been friends for years. But it's a feeling that keeps me feeling betrayed by her.

Any advice from you or your community?

Sounds like a difference of taste to me. People enjoy different kinds of ships for lots of different reasons. I’m very sorry if she’s been unkind about your ships. If y’all are still good friends in most other reguards though, there’s no need to end things over this. Just find other people to talk about ships with.

#big bro advice #shipping #fandom ships #ship dynamics #wlw #mlm #friendship advice #friendship #friends

[olderthannetfic]

"1. A shitton of conflicted AFAB m/m shippers grow out of their "girls suck" problems when they finally realize that they are not girls and that this hatred of everything to do with women is coming from a place of being constantly triggered by how people perceive them." Yeah I'm not talking about them or you. And I'm literally one of these people, which is why I'm talking about this to begin with because I do believe it was legitimately harmful for me and is something I still struggle with today as an adult. I'd be stunned if I wasn't the only one.

Apparently I was too focused on making a casual tone so I wasn't explicit enough but who I'm talking about are people who identify as heterosexual and cisgender who use and used people who are NOT in the way that I'd previously mentioned - as tools for furthering their nonsense. A lot of these folks happen to self-identify as 'fujoshi' ime - hence, my ask. So thank you for answering that subject. However, I'm not putting words in your mouth, please don't put them in mine. I'm trying to have a genuine and respectful conversation with you, but I understand that being on the defensive on the regular in regards to this subject may make this a difficult one for you, so my apologies, and I'll stop. You have a good night and stay safe.

--

I assumed you were trying to operate in good faith, and I still assume that. You sound like it.

But these are still canned talking points coming from a massive anti-m/m shipper trend on tumblr in recent years. (There have always been anti-m/m shipper trends, but these specific talking points are of a relatively recent vintage.)

'Fujoshi' is just a word for female m/m shippers. It got popular in English in the mid 00s from what I saw and was initially used in Asian media fandoms like 'slasher' was in Western fandoms. Now, as 'slasher' (and indeed 'slash') gets less known, it's spreading to m/m shippers regardless of fandom type.

The idea that 'fujoshi' is mostly associated with cishet fans and specifically fetishizing, appropriating ones is a toxic myth spread by people who hate m/m shipping.

I too have side-eyed many a fellow shipper, but the reality is that we cannot know who is cishet, and cringe is a matter of opinion.

Can you be certain the maker of some crappy flash game in 2005 was a cishet woman? If she said she was, does she still say that now? This really sounds like extrapolating from a handful of examples.

I get that you feel harmed by the shitty stuff you found on the internet, and I guarantee you are not alone in that. No one grows up unscathed. There was other stuff just as toxic and damaging all over the place. The stuff you saw was what was being put out in the spaces you otherwise enjoyed being in. That means you're familiar with the failings of people one step removed from you, and that's normal. But when you point the finger at them--and only them--for a thing that was universal across other types of fandom you didn't enjoy and hang out in, that's not so great. What makes fanfic-writing women on the internet so uniquely guilty and not the reddit dudes who make most fandoms' subreddits unlivable for shippers or for queer fans?

This is a topic I feel strongly about, but I wouldn't say it's difficult for me. I'm not reacting strongly because I feel attacked. I'm reacting because you've come to me with the fandom equivalent of:

"But what about wellfare queens though?"

I understand that you are operating in good faith, but the people behind the spread of this concept are not. The rise in this discourse coincides with a major rise in radfem-lite shit in fandom in general. The ultimate purpose is to shame any AFAB for liking m/m content.

[catboygretzky]

Right, so a few weeks ago I talked about transphobia on hockey tumblr, which is a topic that’s very important to me as a trans man, but I’ve also noticed that no one really talks about another topic that is also important to me, which is homophobia on hockey tumblr. 

I’m going to preface this by saying this is from the POV of a trans mlm. I won’t speak on the experiences a wlw or queer nb person goes through in fandom, because I don’t have that knowledge, and I don’t want to act like I do. I’m a queer man, and that’s the lens I’m using. I’m also saying this about hockey tumblr, but it can be applied to every fandom. 

Before I begin, I should make note: a lot of folks don’t realise they’re being homophobic, which is a huge reason this conversation needs to be had. It’s important to remember that no queer person owes you this conversation, though, so don’t just assume your queer friends want to ‘teach you’ things that you can easily google. 

So.

Queer people in any space that is predominantly cishet will automatically experience that space differently. That’s just a fact, because queer people experience things differently to cishet people. Plain and simple. If I read a post, or see a gifset, I will automatically view it in a different way; not necessarily in a better way, not necessarily in a worse way. Just a different way.

Another indisputable fact: homophobia exists, and it exists in fandom. Every fandom, including hockey tumblr. Again, plain and simple.

And another indisputable fact, hockeyblr is mostly cis(het) females, whose experiences will always be different to mine and other queer people.

A lot of people on hockey tumblr think ‘oh, this is a safe space away from the dudebro hockey fans that yell slurs’, which yes! I’d rather be here than on twitter any day of the week! But hockey tumblr isn’t the ‘safe haven’ for queer people that y’all try to say it is. Maybe I’m not getting called slurs (I mean, I am getting called slurs), but that doesn’t make it a 100% safe space.

My attraction to men will always be treated differently than a cishet female’s attraction to men. Even if you don’t mean to, my attraction will always be seen as more sexual and - I’m quoting - ‘creepy’. ‘It’s creepy that you’re attracted to a straight man’. Even if someone doesn’t mean to, my attraction will always be seen as more sexual and on occasion - too many occasions - borderline if not overtly predatory. 

Another huge part of the hockey fandom is RPF, which is a very very polarizing issue that I will only touch on objectively. If your reason for hating RPF is ‘it’s creepy to ship real people’, that’s valid. But if your reason goes past that, into the 'making this person gay is gross', I hate to break it to you… That's homophobia!

There's also rampant fetishization of slash ships, as well as the idea that queer ships are automatically going to be seen as needing a higher rating, which again. Most people don't realise they're doing it. That fits into the 'queer love and attraction is seen as inherently more sexual that cishet love and attraction' that I mentioned above. A fic with a cishet couple making out will most likely be rated G; the same with a queer couple will most likely be rated T. That’s something most people don’t think about or don’t consider when a queer person mentions homophobia in fandom.

As always, I’ve started to ramble a little.

To sum up: a queer person’s attraction is not automatically more sexual or predatory than a cishet’s. If someone’s reason for not liking same gender ships is that it’s ‘gross’ or ‘creepy’ or ‘impossible that they’re queer’ - that’s homophobia. Fetishizing slash ships is homophobia. You’re not immune to homophobia because you’re marginalised, too.

Also, if cishets could please stop joking about how someone’s a ‘twink’ or how someone is ‘obviously a bottom’ I would appreciate that! Those aren’t your jokes to make, nor can you even fathom what you mean!

Feel free to reblog.

#nhl #hockey #change hockey culture #long post #homophobia #homophobia in fandom #hockey rpf #rpf #alex rambles #ok to rb

[glassesandkim]

I would like to say my piece here about schmico, grey’s anatomy, and the fandom and it’s really for my own self-indulgence and benefit. I’m not asking for you to agree with me or even begin to understand what I’m going on about. I don’t even think half the things that I think about for this fandom exists on an important level. I fully believe in just ~vibin’~ to your own tune when it comes to participating in fandom spaces.

so this post is gonna be my way of getting stuff off my chest so i can continue to ~vibe~

First thing I’d like to address is: I know. I know the Nico Kim that I love and adore is not the Nico Kim in canon. He is who I hope he is in canon. But there’s not much to combat or support that he is or isn’t. He really could be who we’ve made up in fanon for him and at the same time, he really couldn’t. Grey’s created this character that is as blank as a dried piece of toast. So forgive me if I spread a bit of spicy jam here and there so I can swallow this bland shit down a little easier. 

So when people come to me to say, “Y’all are delulu and out of your mind to love this guy this much.” PLEASE, I know. This isn’t news, honey. I am well aware.

But I will continue to justify, romanticize, and put this boy on a pedestal for as long as his existence in canon continues to remain arbitrary and vague. And it makes me very biased to a fault but I have put too much time and energy into this character NOT to be. 

And then you might ask, why have I put so much of my time and life (THREE YEARS!!!! I’VE BEEN IN THIS FANDOM FOR THREE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!) into this character that has all but said maybe like a PAGE of dialogue at most? 

Because I was conned into it. Because they marketed the shit out of him when Alex Landi got the part. And I, as a casual viewer of Grey’s since I was in high school (I’m in my late 20s now, dawg) and of Asian descent was promised representation. Not just Asian rep, but queer rep. 

So naturally, I got extremely attached. It's not everyday a major Western mainstream prime time medical drama chooses to create a character as unique as Nico's. 

I spent so much time here. I was here when fandom decided Nico would call Levi “babe”. I was here when we all clowned that Nico didn’t know Levi’s first name. I was here when Josh died and the fandom went up in arms with pitchforks and stakes against Nico. I was here for all of it. I've seen it all. 

And unfortunately, seeing it all, makes me tired. Grey’s is time and time again proving to me that they don’t give a shit about the development and well-being of their existing characters at all. The show only cares about collecting diversity points and performing their wokeness to the general masses. (I talk a lot about how grey's is plot-driven vs. character-driven.) 

I will still get frustrated and annoyed at Nico’s lack of character development. But I mostly just laugh at the fandom nowadays. I know you guys want to fight the fight, tell everyone Nico is not toxic!!!!!! But bros, friends, lovers, it’s a tried and tired fight. 

Grey’s wants us to think Nico is a Bad Boyfriend. It’s as clear as the stench one comes across when they step on dog shit. That’s why I think it’s useless to fight people about Nico. Grey’s gets amnesia all the time. Grey’s forgot the whole season and half they invested in creating a loving boyfriend for Levi and up and changed Nico’s personality to fit a new narrative (that they, quite frankly, failed to even follow through because of covid and other filming hoopla hula hoops they’ve had to jump through that I’ve been informed of and which I simply don’t care for). 

So all this ~schmico is endgame!!! we deserve it!!!~ Binches, I have better things to fight for than schmico endgame. What’s the alternative? Levi lives in Jo’s closet forever? They’re going to be together in the end no matter what. Nobody on that show cares enough about Nico OR Levi to set up new relationships and stories for them. So don’t fret, my friends. They’ll be together in the end. It just comes down to the question of what stupid story they’re going to come up with for them to be together. (And might I argue that they already are together???) 

Speaking of the bogus story they’re going to write for schmico: you bet my rice eating, Chinese-speaking ass, that it’s not going to be a story written from a queer and poc perspective. It’s going to be some gag-worthy straight het story but made gay. (How many times do I have to hear, "I hope Nico comes out to his parents!!" NO, HE DOESN'T! Do you know how VIOLENT coming out is sometimes?? It's not a solution to Nico's problems with Levi. It's an introduction and invitation to problems over being queer -- but why would I expect anyone, let alone Grey's, to understand that prepetuating these types of stories is inherently damaging to queer people? They wouldn't know. The cishet fandom wouldn't know. Because no one is writing grey's in a queer, poc centric way.)

Which drives me to the next point: you know why Nico doesn’t get character development even though he showed up at the same time as Link? Because of ✨racism ✨. Because Link is a more conventional character (read: white) that is easier to write because nobody on this show knows how to write an Asian character anymore, let alone a gay Asian character. So of course, nobody wants to touch that shit even with a pogo stick. (Argue with me that Cristina exists and I will tell you, yes she did, but they RARELY touched upon her cultural and ethnic background. Also it was the early 2000s. Cristina was as ground breaking as it got for us Asians back then.)

And then because Nico isn’t developed enough, we have the weird phenomenon of people shipping everyone and their dog with Levi and it’s like, y’all know you got played by the racism game, right? You are hostages to this system that has taught you that white men are more desirable and deserving of story and humanity than a poc character who is instead, reduced to nothing but sex appeal and if he’s not doing well on that front, then he’s useless.

How many times does Levi say: Nico is so hot! Sex with Nico is so good! He’s a roman statue!

All!! the!! time!! Nico's worth to Levi’s character is to be the sex object that Sets Him Free. 

Which plays into the sexualization of Asian people which all comes from, you guessed it! Racism! (Levi really compared Nico to a fucking lifeless slab of stone.)

(Side note: I do think talking about how racism plays into Nico’s character and the fandom space is important and probably a separate post. I’m happy to write my opinion piece on it if it’s something people want.) 

But anyway, those are just some of my qualms with schmico, grey’s anatomy, and the fandom. I do not expect anyone to fully agree with me and I’m not asking the fandom to change or apologize or whatever. I’m just already grateful if you took the time to even read this post. 

I’ll leave with some parting advice: fandom is what you make of it. We won’t all agree with everyone’s hot takes, but that’s the beauty of it, yeah? So I chose to create this version of Nico Kim that brings me IMMENSE joy. Like, A LOT!!! I love this fandom for these reasons. I’m grateful everyday for the friends I’ve made and the works and creations I’ve created and I’m honoured to be able to consume other works made by fellow fans. 

I might hate a lot of things about grey’s and schmico, but I really owe a lot of myself to this fandom. 

#know that i'm always angry but i know how to have fun lol #schmico::::