#...honestly probably MORE valid to read as platonic than romantic | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

lord-squiggletits · 1 month

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For the Salty Asks (forgive us for the avalanche, if it's too many you can pick your top three): 2, 9, 10, 11, 13 (Optimus), 20, 25 (IDW1), 26

uhhh honestly I feel a bit like a hermit who's out of the loop on what's popular/unpopular so some of these might be completely off the mark but here we go

2. Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP?

Mmmm I think most of my brotp's aren't shipped as OTPs to start with, so I dunno if I have any that fit this question.

Guess the closest example for me would be OPli/ta. I don't actively platonically ship them but I think platonic is way more interesting than romantic. I don't like the fandom's interpretation of romantic O/Plita at all + I feel like as one of the original "token woman" Autobots, I'd like to see Elita unshackled from Optimus as a love interest, esp because any official interpretation of them is probably gonna be written extremely heteronormatively/token romance between an action hero and The Girl. And the fanon version of them that's Strong Independent Girlboss Elita with whipped simp husbnad Optimus is just as boring and gross.

I just don't like the vibes and would rather them have some sort of friendly or regular relationship together.

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

IDW1 Slide, who I've gone into detail about my hatred of in several posts, but the TLDR is that she comes off as some kind of mouthpiece character? Not a mouthpiece as in for the author's beliefs, but it literally feels like she only exists to shit on Optimus and call him a piece of shit. Her dialogue is so cheesily written ("literally fascism" is an actual thing she says) and her bitching/lack of cultural comprehension about Cybertronian history is so prevalent, that for a long time during my IDW1 reading I was genuinely confused as to whether she was supposed to be some sort of parody/strawman/mockery of someone IRL (her character comes off almost EXACTLY like an anti-SJW stereotype of a screeching harpy calling everyone she dislikes a fascist, and it's only Barber's very obviously left-leaning writing in other parts of the story that told me that definitely wasn't the intent). So then I was wondering "okay is she gonna like, randomly become evil and turn against the good guys because she's just that petty? I mean she spends all of her time bitching about how Optimus/the Autobots/Cybertronians in general are the worst ever and she also hates humans too so I mean maybe? Half of this story already doesn't make sense so I can see it happening."

Thankfully that didn't happen, but like. Slide is so goddamn annoying and ignorant and gets way too much page time dedicated to her angry monologuing (in Unicron aka the finale of IDW1 there's literally a whole half page panel of her bitching about how Optimus is an evil tyrant while Trypticon is dying behind her and it comes off as a poorly timed, bad taste joke). The narrative treats her like she's some important individual whose feelings are important and valid, but she's fucking annoying. Any sympathy she was meant to garner is canceled out by badly written dialogue and the fact that she's a Literal Nobody of a character who seemingly only exists to bash the decades old, beloved legacy characters. For the sake of, idk, talking about how fucked up Cybertronians are that they just shrug and move on when people die? Bc apparently it's some sort of sin to be numb after 4 million years of war (and war that's literally still ongoing while Slide is bitching) and just soldier on trying to get through it? God forbid that a military hierarchy fighting to keep neo-Decepticons and various other alien threats from colonizing Earth be run like a military in which orders have to be followed, people die, but you still have to keep fighting anyways? Idefk man I just hate Slide so much she's basically the embodiment of all of the bad aspects of Barber's writing personified.

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

Mutineers arc in MTMTE/LL. I feel like (whether due to early cancellation and/or JRO wasting time on too many side plots to give it its full depth), I dislike how the mutineers were basically boiled down to pure evil morons who are the most disgusting, despicable evil ever and the only reason the mutiny had Good Guys (TM) in it was because they were horribly misled and not because, you know, the mutiny was 100% a valid thing to have happened as retaliation against Rodimus and Megatron's captaincy.

Like, I'm not opposed to the idea of Getaway and his cronies being assholes (I personally thought Getaway was a GREAT slow-burn, puppet master villain/anti-hero), I just dislike how the quality of their writing degraded from MTMTE to LL. Felt like they (Getaway in particular) got passed the Idiot Ball and then the actual reasons behind the mutiny were never addressed, it was kind of just "oh Getaway died horribly so we're all friends now and we forgive each other and Rodimus/Megatron will just go back to being captains now."

11. Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

You mean besides IDW Optimus because anyone who's been on my blog for like 5 seconds knows he's my biggest problematic fave skldfjskd

Uhhh I guess in the spirit of the previous question, Getaway. I feel like the fandom's hatred for him is overblown mainly bc it's a combination of Tailgate/Cyga/te fans going "HE GOT IN THE WAY OF C/YGA/TE AND ALMOST KILLED THAT PRECIOUS CINNAMON ROLL" and Rodimus or Megatron stans going "Getaway hates my fave?? But my fave is a good captain and deserves the world HE'S EVIL MY FAVORITE IS BEYOND CRITICISM OR REPROACH GETAWAY IS THE EMBODIMENT OF EVIL."

Like to me it seems as if the hate for Getaway isn't normal dislike or even people hating him because he's a well written villain. It feels weirdly like ppl really take Getaway's actions personally and hate him with the kind of passion you normally see reserved for actual real life horrible people. Or they like, see Getaway as an obstacle to [favorite character]'s happiness and not as an individual who, before the quality of his writing tanked, was actually an interesting character who maybe even had good points? It just feels like people mainly hate Getaway because he's the antagonist to more popular characters/ships and so they project their defense of their faves into virulently hating him.

13. Unpopular opinion about (Optimus)?

Honestly 90% or more of the fan content I see for Optimus is really boring/uncompelling to me, or really just comes off as out of character. It's either Optimus being reduced to an accessory to be shipped with someone (usually turned into some sort of moe cutesy uke type) or him being turned into.... idk some permutation of "feral irresponsible gremlin" or "One Of The Good Ones (TM)" or "anxiety-ridden damsel who needs to be rescued by his lover" or, in some circles, "character I project my issues with authority onto and try to frame as evil for things that aren't even evil."

Idk how to specifically describe it, it's just... a vibe? Most of the Optimus content I see doesn't actually feel like him at all. It feels like it's Optimus/Orion in name only, who got so separated from canon and distorted by fanon/flanderization/shipping/porn stereotypes that he now only vaguely resembles the character he's supposed to be.

20. What is the purest ship in the fandom?

Ahahaha I don't really go into the realm of pure ships honestly, plus this is the war criminal fandom where pretty much every character has killed people or committed crimes or is just generally scarred by war so uhhh

Idk I think Thundercracker/Melissa is a pretty hinged ship? They get along and cope surprisingly well with all the shit that happens. There's no angst or betrayals or misunderstandings or enemies, they're just very respectfully together. Sdfklsajfksd

25. How would you end (IDW1)/Would you change the ending of (IDW1)?

Honestly, I'm pretty satisfied with the ending of IDW1 on both sides of the story. On Barber's side I would've preferred if every single planet including Cybertron didn't get fucking eaten leaving them all stuck on Earth together, and I would've also kept Trypticon alive while... minimizing Slide's role, to say the least. I don't have a problem with Optimus' ending bc I actually think that Optimus' arc in Unicron is like, one of the few 1000% good things Barber wrote for him it's just. It's pure Optimus in his best form.

On JRO's side I would've cut out the last panel with the alternate Lost Light and left it ambiguous as to whether the quantum jump successfully copied the ship or not. I dislike the vibes of the canon ending that implied that everyone moving on with their lives (almost universally to new and exciting and happier places) was the "sad" ending and going on a permanent road trip is the "true, happy" ending. In the author's notes I think JRO said that he wanted to give the readers an ending that would allow them to imagine their faves continuing to go on adventures, but I think compromising a good ending to a story to appease fans is fucking stupid + fandom has never needed permission or approval from the author to write alternate, happy endings. So why ruin a poignant, melancholy ending about how endings come with new beginnings and sadness/nostalgia can be mixed with hope and happiness by going "sike lol they're all living happily ever after on their space cruise."

Also I wouldn't have randomly killed off Ratchet for no reason because like. What was that even supposed to accomplish. I'm no stranger to writing major character deaths but like. He just fucking died of disease off-screen and that was that??? Why, like what was the narrative/symbolic purpose of that besides just making the ending more sad? Maybe to emphasize how going back to Cybertron was the "bad ending" and the quantum Lost Light is the "good ending" since on the LL Ratchet is still alive? But see the paragraph above for why I don't like that.

26. Most shippable character?

The most shippable character to me is whichever character I think is the sexiest, because if I think they're sexy it makes me want to ship them with everyone. "Guards, fuck that man for me" etc etc. Lmao

#squiggle answers #long post #i put / through ship names not bc i hate them but bc #i want to try and keep them from showing up in the maintags for the ship

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reachexceedinggrasp · 28 days

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That post about how "Clara and Twelve could kiss and still people will argue that it was platonic", reminded me of a delusional discourse,(which perhaps you too have read)in the DB fandom according to which Bulma and Vegeta "don't really love each other/have children in a platonic way/have a platonico marriage" despise…everything in canon screams that they DO love each other. Seriously, why do you think people are so adamant about creating headcanons/interpretations that go against canon especially when it comes to romantic relationships?

I saw that discourse!! Honestly, it may very well be the absolute hottest take I've ever come across in any fandom. That more than one person would sincerely suggest that it makes sense to suppose they're platonically married and platonically have two children together was just... next level. Dizzying heights. Imagine looking at two of the hottest-blooded, most impetuous characters in pop culture history and being like 'clearly their torrid affair and subsequent violently dramatic devotion to each other is some kind of friendly business arrangement'.

I guess some people are so pathologically unable to acknowledge that canon doesn't back up their esoteric projections onto the characters that they're willing to do these kind of mental gymnastics no matter how ridiculous they sound. Some of it seems to come with over-identifying with one or more characters and/or using a character as some kind of source of validation which requires them and their relationships to fit into a self-shaped box. And there's always the contingent that's desperately afraid of cooties in any form to the point they'll resort to this kind of wilful blindness in order to avoid knowing there's an icky romance in their Pure fighting/sci-fi/whatever show.

Then there's antis. And as silly as antis look trying to dismiss obvious, unambiguously romantic canon pairings with goofy nonsense conspiracy theories, I guess it's less painful for them than just admitting they were wrong or that the canon isn't a 1-to-1 exact perfect representation of whatever moral landscape free of ¬problematic¬ ships they've decided it needs to be in order to be acceptable.

I have canon pairings I've found unconvincing or that I've hated, but I'm not going to pretend they're not textually intended to be romantic or to have romantic tension when that's clearly the case. I'm probably going to ignore them, at worst I'll complain about the writing, I'm not going to try to convince anyone else that a ten second kiss on the mouth is 'sibling-coded' or that platonic buddies have emotional affairs and fraught conversations about bad timing.

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ricanvvas · 4 months

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Hello. I have noticed your very impassioned posts about shipping male friends in anime fandoms and am attempting to write a response in what I hope comes across as an understanding manner.

I am not here to attack you. I am not trying to call you homophobic. I will not be trying to convince you to ship anything you don't want to ship.

I do agree with you that fandom as a whole could benefit from more discussions about platonic relationships. Sometimes just seeing a lot of romantic shipping posts can get a bit annoying. Society as a whole could benefit from focusing less on romantic and sexual relationships. Platonic relationships are just as valid and can be just as important and deep as romantic relationships, if not more so.

However, I don't agree with how you seem to talk down to shippers. I've seen you say that people who ship characters who are best friends must not understand friendship. That is not a fair assumption to make. You don't know those people. You shouldn't make generalizations about their experiences. For example: I have 3 best friends I've known since high school who I would do anything for and be devastated to lose, and I ship Gojo and Geto. And I know full well that they will probably never be confirmed to be canonically in love, and I'm fine with that. You shouldn't be making assumptions about people based on their shipping preferences.

And again, I am NOT calling you homophobic, and that's not the point people tried to make when pointing out that the ships you are critiquing in those posts are almost entirely, if not all, mlm ships. I haven't seen you mention non-canonical wlw ships, like Nobara/Maki, or non-canonical m/f ships, like Gojo/Utahime or Yuji/Nobara. None of those are confirmed canon. I know there are only so many ships you can list or know about, but when you only ever mention mlm ships, it appears as though you are making a targeted attack. I am saying this because I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that this is unintentional.

I've also seen you mention that you want to be a writer and how you would feel if people headcanoned your characters contrary to your intention. All I can say to that is that you cannot control how people will react to your writing and attempting to do so is futile. It may sound harsh, but it's true.

I can see that you have very strong opinions about this, but if you do care more about discussions about platonic male friendships than shipping discourse, then your time would be better spent making those discussions yourself and blocking the shipping tags. You aren't going to change anyone's minds with those posts. Sure, you'll attract people with similar opinions, but, as you've seen, you'll also attract the annoyance of people in related tags who didn't want to see posts like yours. For better or for worse, shipping is ingrained in the foundations of modern fandom going all the way back to the 60s with Trekkies writing fan fiction and making fan magazines to ship Spock and Kirk. It's something you'll have to either make peace with or ignore.

I'm not expecting you to reply to this. Honestly, I'll be surprised if you even bother to read the whole thing (I doubt I'd be happy getting a whole essay from some rando in my ask box lol). But if you do read the whole thing, just know that I say these things in the hopes that it will help you have a better relationship with fandom. You don't have to like all of it, and you don't even need a reason to dislike something. Fandom is about having fun, but I just can't imagine that this whole discourse is much fun for you.

Skimmed through your input, the respect is much appreciated.

But I would’ve really liked it if you didn’t bring up the being a writer part—I hope you realize that writers are writers for themselves and not for the satisfaction of others. Their imagination and their work. If somebody is twisting an author’s story and their characters, they have the right speak up and be upset because it belongs to them. Yes, it’s shared publicly, but nonetheless, they should be respected. I think it’s very ridiculous to try and create excuses for this.

A reminder of my main point; friendships should be left alone as friendships instead of being twisted.

I don’t care for headcanons or what ships one likes or whatnot. Trust me, I don’t have that much free time. You have your opinion. My problem is enforcing it onto others and this is an undeniable topic.

Saying these people probably don’t have strong friendships is an an unfair assumption from me, I’ll agree, but I’m not completely wrong for thinking so when they go berserk when I don’t agree with romantically or sexually shipping platonic friendships.

I was targeting specifics here, too. There are rarely any cases to the otherwise of this, but “MLM” has been fetishized immensely across anime fandoms, to the point that male friends are not allowed to stay male friends without being seen as a romantic or sexual partner which is where the toxicity starts. I hadn’t targeted “WLW” or regular male/female ships because they aren’t extremists in HUGE amount of numbers who will bash and shun you for not giving into their ideas. There is no dodging this fact—sure some of them are normal who accept their idea is not accepted fandom-wide and move on, but others will go as far as giving you death threats.

For example, I know an artist who ships Gojo and Utahime, and they got plenty of doxing death threats. It’s very common. When it’s a female and a male, suddenly nobody is entitled to their own opinion. This happens more often than you know.

In the same way, if you comment “they’re best friends” on a post where Gojo/Geto are shipped, they will come for you with ridiculous attacks and ridiculous claims of homophobia and I can test this any second to prove it. They have no sense of respect. They’re triggered by canon, so they should be the ones to find something to their liking. They don’t even watch for story, seriously. And I would like to kindly remind the obvious that people like me are preaching the givens from the author while people like them are preaching things they twisted in their head, so why are we the ones being attacked? We aren’t even the ones with opinions, we are the ones with factual givens.

It’s been barely two years since I became an anime fan and I thought the definition of fandom was to enjoy and speak about the show and author’s work all together—not twist it into something it isn’t and attack one another. If not, then I’m ashamed. I have never personally went up to somebody in the comments and said “fuck you” for shipping two male best friends but I’ve been told that several times for calling two male best friends, best friends.

And the thing about these animes is that they’re beautiful stories, they’re writings from an author portraying strong and emotional friendship between men, encouraging men to be more open and expressive and appreciate those they admire, because in reality they find it difficult to do so. It’s okay to feel angry if your friend left, it’s okay to cry if your friend hurt you in a way, it’s okay to grieve for years when your friend dies—but what does the “fandom” insensitively say? “They’re definitely gay and in love.” What’s the message people are sending when you only address males to romantic and sexual relationships?

Close friendships are damn strong. Stronger than one wants to believe.

What’s the point of watching something just to toss aside the story and contort characters that aren’t yours? That debunks almost any right to yell at those who don’t do what you do.

I’m not trying to change minds. It’s the other way around. They need to stop trying to change minds, and when one doesn’t buy it, they need to stop attacking childishly.

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feralshadowdemon · 3 months

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HELLO

ivan, chuuya, fukuchi, tetchou, AAAAND

yosano

HELLO!!!!!!!!! THIS IS GOING TO BE LONG ivan goncharov first impression: oh how did fyodor fuck you up (did not know/realize he was lobotomized either) impression now: ohh he's my silly. his english dub voice gives me gender envy. i like his eyes. he is weirdly a well-written lobotomized guy. i looked into actual lobotomy for you favorite moment: his entire fight scene was good and more people should talk about it. signed yours truly me idea for a story: primarily? a general character study, however, - bubble bath. it is a character study with him and shibusawa. not set in canon - highschool au. he deserves to be a normal highschool student. he would swear a sweater vest. i will die on this hill unpopular opinion: his character is really fucking good and yes his ability's name is on the nose but i hope we see him again. i don't like shipping him in canon though bc he can't. Consent. Fyovan should not exist. also i think more people should be paying attention to the bsd side characters favorite relationship: shibuvan/shibusawa x ivan and you know it. my #1 comfort ship in my heart. they are so cute <3 favorite headcanon: he has tics and freckles. also sometimes i like making him trans the others are below v

chuuya nakahara first impression: oh he's cool impression now: I WANT TO BE YOU YOUR CHARACTER IS SO COOL GIVE ME YOUR GENDER YOUR CHARACTER SCRATCHES MY BRAIN YOUR ABILITY IS SO COOL. I AM NOT NORMAL. favorite moment: THE HELICOPTER SCENE OH MY GODD idea for a story: i have many! - hirotsu visits him during a stormy night and he's suffering w chronic pains but hirotsu gets him his meds. they get to talk a little. they are silly to me - summer camp au w dazai they are at war constantly - i have too many, but to briefly summarize the rest: fan dancer and kitsune au, meiji era/period au, chuuya and kouyou fic/character study, there will be more after i read stormbringer unpopular opinion: he probably doesn't have anger issues. might just be agitated easily or because of dazai. also people need to stop getting his character soo wrong because the amount of mischaracterization that surrounds that man is NOT funny favorite relationship: people sleep on his and hirotsu's possible dynamic. next one is well. okay. it's obvious, but soukoku, i just like their dynamic whether it's romantic or not. absolute menaces. shoutout to kunichuuzai also, but i honestly cannot ship that man all the time. bonus platonic relationships i really like is the idea of tetchou and chuuya becoming good fucking friends. let chuuya have so many friends to make up for the ones he's lost favorite headcanon(s): freckles chuuya, lightning scars chuuya, nonbinary chuuya (i dont use they/them for them all the time but i am a believer in it), chronic pains, autistic, metal/rock (the song genre) lover, sanrio and ocean life special interest, also demisexual/demiromantic !! sorry they have the most. favoritism is showing fukuchi ochi

first impression: oh doesn't he kill everybody's faves. meh impression now: YOUR CHARACTER AND WRITING IS SO OVERLOOKED. YOU ARE DAD MATERIAL AND THAT SCARES ME BUT IM ALSO :D ABOUT IT favorite moment: the entire fucking fight he has with atsushi and akutagawa. you don't understand he was both terrifying and also that gave me an actual adrenaline rush once i watched it in the anime. the music was so good. also the scene w aya !! idea for a story: the main one is a fukufuku fic where it goes through how overtime, fukuzawa in fukuchi's eyes is more like a wolf than a human being. it's his way of making it hurt less when he has to hurt him. i cant remember any others, but i hope there will be more unpopular opinion: can the fandom not hate on him so much lmao i dont mind seeing people dislike him that's valid but like. give him a chance i swear. he also can be trusted with children favorite relationship: him and fukuzawa's (romantically or platonically idrc). holy shit. holy shit. holy shi- also bonus shoutout to him and ranpo's!! it is not shown a lot but augh. of course i love his relationship with the hunting dogs too but fukufuku sits at the top favorite headcanon: hm. i can't think of any rn tetchou suehiro

first impression: AUTISTIC impression now: AUTISTIC favorite moment: them and kenji's fight >>>>> idea for a story: they are a samurai and they meet jouno along the way. they stay with fukuchi after having a rough run-in with an innkeeper and some people who are after them. they smell like blossoms unpopular opinion: i wish people wrote them beating up people more they're literally one of the strongest characters (physically specifically) of bsd favorite relationship: them and jouno's is peak favorite headcanon: asexual and nonbinary tetchou for the win. my most favorite one of all time though is them being half-taiwanese :] akiko yosano (surprise???)

first impression: please be well written. impression now: she is so cool!! i wish she had more screentime but oh my god she is so cool <33333 she is fun in the manga and i love her so much favorite moment: her backstory i wanna say. we don't get too much content of her but damn her backstory hits hard. it adds so much to her character and i love her a lot idea for a story: she and fukuzawa go shopping together. i think she also deserves some fics w fukuzawa. they have a fun time !! unpopular opinion: not a fan of kousano favorite relationship: her and ranpo's. siblings your honor, absolute siblings, ALSO THAT ONE SCENE IN HER BACKSTORY WHERE HE KNEELS DOWN TO HER AND SHES CRYING AND SJJSDHHFBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA favorite headcanon: aro/ace yosano is cool. very cool. aro/ace yosano.? holds her out to you. Consider

#lou *throws you a breadcrumb*#ask game #bsd

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vegaseatsass · 1 year

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GAP 4 spoilers: "We didn't do anything! I'm a woman, how could we?" / "I would make a move if I was a man"

I'm so interested in the question of how Mon thinks of herself and her crush on Sam, because I have my favored headcanon, but there are honestly so many possibilities. I don't think it's cut and dried at all, and I think basically all readings are valid at this point, which makes it extra fun to see where the story is going.

Internalized homophobia possibility 1: Mon could be afraid to let anyone else think her crush on Sam is sexual/anything but fangirling, because she assumes Sam is straight and doesn't want her to start feeling uncomfortable around Mon

Internalized homophobia possibility 2: Mon could be afraid to let herself think her crush on Sam is sexual/anything but fangirling, because she has internalized the idea that such a thing is predatory, and she doesn't want to inflict that on her honorable ladyness. ("How could we????")

Internalized heteronormativity possibility 1: Mon could genuinely not have questioned that her crush on Sam is sexual/romantic/anything but fangirling, despite the very literal wet dreams she has about her on the regular. The fan/idol relationship is sacred and she's devoted herself whole cloth to it for 12 years! What fan's heart wouldn't beat a little faster when her idol's face got really close to her face?

Internalized heteronormativity possibility 2: Mon and Yuki have kissed a bunch, like a WHOLE LOT, and mutually consider that to be regular platonic friends behavior, so obviously Mon having vivid kissing fantasies about Sam every day since she was 10 is different than making a move on her.

"Tumblr user vegaseatsass is reading too much into this" possibility: Mon wants to make a move on Sam, and wants Sam to know she wants to make a move on her, and just used the "I would if I were a man" line for some plausible deniability in case Sam wasn't into it. But Sam is very openly into it, they're both really happy and excited about this, and are gonna kiss on the lips sooooooooooooooon.

I am genuinely not married to any of these readings; I think they are all possible! There's probably plenty more! (Trans/GNC Mon working through gender feelings, expectations, etc, is a reading I see potential for, too, for instance!)

The reason EYE have been reading Mon as not completely in touch w/ all the ways she wants Sam is because she's so unflappably calm about wanting her. She had no notable reaction to getting to see Sam in lingerie or sleep in her bed (vs. her reaction to getting to see inside her house, and learn more about her). She def has the occasional breathless nervous moment, when their faces get realllly close or when Sam's all wet from the pool, and what she's thinking/feeling in those moments could generate a whole other post.

C is my preferred reading because it's the reading I relate to most. TMI but the most easy-natural-unquestioning-comfortable I ever felt wanting a woman was before I knew this want connected me to the negatively-connotated lesbian identity. I have fought through a lot of internalized homophobia since then to get proudly comfortable, and it is entirely possible to become truly cool cucumber levels of comfortable, but that perfect ease is something I personally associate w/ the innocence of not connecting your feelings to society's thoughts on those feelings.

But basically I see it as

a) Mon is the coolest cucumber alive, the inversion of every useless lesbian stereotype out there. You can't make her blush, you can't make her stuttertype; she is in control.

b) Mon is firmly committed to the belief that her crush is going to remain one-sided, and no bedsharing or lingerie is going to shake her comfortably resigned certainty with her place in Sam's life (fan, employee, friend if she's very very good and very very lucky)

c) Mon is not really looking too closely at some of the things she feels for Sam, or what some of the things she feels for Sam mean about her.

Idk that this is the reading the story is going for at alllll, though!! And I am not Thai and am obviously bringing my own American thirtysomething's experience of queerness/sexuality/homophobia/etc to things. So most of all I guess I just really love that every episode gives the Sam/Mon dynamic more layers and nuances and things for us to pore over as fans. It's not just about wanting them to resolve their sexy chemistry at this point, but about how many new character details get textured into every single episode and how much there is to explore between Sam and Mon. I LOVE YOU GAP THE SERIES!!!

PS If you got to the end of this post please feel free to share your own readings and headcanons w/ me I obvi can't get enough of talking about this show and wanna hear it all.

#gap the series #why am i writing tumblr posts instead of fanfic is the real question #that is not a question i can answer at this moment. shhhh #dear diary #gap the series spoilers

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valoisfulcanellideux · 5 months

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Addressing the accusations of shipping in 'These Stones Remember'

Just a clarification regarding what 'shipping' actually means within fandom:

Read that again: ROMANTIC or SEXUAL relationship.

I've been made aware of complaints that there is 'shipping' in These Stones Remember because of the relationship between Paix and Mhenheli, despite the fic being tagged as 'No Romantic Relationships' from the very start.

I want to reiterate: theirs is NOT a romantic relationship. It is a loving but PLATONIC relationship. I have mentioned the word 'platonic' within the fic itself, and I've hinted strongly at platonic love in multiple chapters; sometimes to where I'm almost belabouring the point and the mention of it actually pulls me out of the story (which means it probably does the same to the reader). That is how sensitive I am toward making sure I'm as clear as possible.

Example 1:

Pix wanted to weep, wanted to scream. It was so fucking unfair. In those dark eyes, he saw a heart lifted up to him, offered for him to take. The beautiful, uncomplicated simplicity of deep platonic love that he had always craved was kneeling right there at his feet, waiting for him to accept it. And he did not dare touch it.

Example 2:

The copper crown will never be worn again, for I left no bloodline and it will tolerate no other bearer, but I pray you keep it safe. His whole life, he, too, had only ever wished for love and nothing more. For hands to hold, lips to cherish, the warmth of another beside him at night, a heart to cradle in his hands like a candle flame. That, and nothing more. That would have been his all.

This got very long, so the rest of it goes behind a cut.

People, I have been writing within fandom for longer than some of you have even been alive. I know what shipping is and has always been. You do not get to redefine the term and then make authors feel guilty because you've changed that definition to validate your own feelings about it.

People in a loving platonic relationship can kiss, they can sleep and cuddle in the same bed, they can show intimate affection by means of hugs and touches.

If you honestly think that the relationship I've been writing between Paix and Mhenheli is a romantic one, then I urge you to read this article: Platonic Love: How it Differs from Romantic Love and Friendship.

Some excerpts from the article are below:

This is exactly what the relationship between Paix and Mhenheli is, and it's how I've written it the way that I have. In the worldbuilding for the story, I even have the concept of two people being 'stars-bound' - which is the equivalent to our notion of 'soulmates'. That is, people who will always find each other, and who will become close to each other in any way, be that romantic or close friends.

The sort of shit that I've seen - both direct and indirect, in posts and tags and the like - honestly makes me never want to tag anything as NRR again, and instead to write "THERE'S RAMPANT FUCKING THROUGHOUT THIS FIC" even if it's the most innocent Gen fic out there, just to ensure that these people who have me walking on eggshells and disclaimering everything everywhere won't touch it with the proverbial 10 foot bargepole (even if that meant I'd then be dealing with complaints from people who expected that rampant fucking and only got a Gen fic instead).

It upsets me beyond belief that I've had to deal with this several times through the lifetime of this story, but I'm absolutely sick of feeling like shit when I find someone's been complaining about the 150,000+ word fic that I've been pouring my heart and soul into for almost nine months.

If you're repulsed by notions of intimacy and love - even nonsexual - then just… please don't read any of my stories. Because I simply cannot write anodyne, unfeeling fiction where there is no tenderness, no love, and no intimacy of some kind. The occasional one-shot might come out where that doesn't feature, but the vast majority of my writing does contain it.

The themes for These Stones Remember are: home, belonging, guilt, friendship, affection, forgiveness, gratitude, and love. And they've been that way from the very start.

Follow your heart, for the Vigil is Love and the heart is where it rests most comfortably.

#these stones remember #writing chatter #those accusations actually really hurt #and I felt the need to address them here #so they (hopefully) stop hurting

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fockinastro · 3 years

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astro observations pt. 7

a/n: if u believe i took your comment/observation without credit, please reach out and let me know! i have no problem including you in my post (or taking it down if u ask :))

again, opinion based & based on what i see around me so take with a grain of salt

i’ve noticed that taurus placements tend to be spiritual

this is more personal than general but most astrologers associate pluto/scorpio in the 6th to be obsessive about work and health but that’s never been the case for me

i think this placement can also manifest as having a lot of control over your health

i’ve noticed that mercury retrograde individuals may have a tendency to stutter, ramble or even circle around what they’re trying to say--it can be redundant since it’s not straight to the point and can be a little confusing to understand

mars in the 1st seem to have a natural tendency to react with anger or irritability; they can get angry easily and quickly

i think it’s underestimated how well scorpio and geminis can get along--it probably stems from the fact that they both can manifest as extremes or polarities and both can teach each other a lot of things

taurus (or any feminine sign) liliths can be anti-women which is interesting since they are feminine signs and being in lilith can create difficult relationships with other women

there’s a chance that these individuals crave male validation or they can manifest as “pick mes”

this can be said for gemini placements but gemini moons are very inconsistent in my personal experience--they are constantly changing anything and everything (it’s probs because they get bored easily and need the stimulation) but it’s like their inconsistency is the only thing that's consistent lmao

a debilitated or conflicted sun can make someone, for a lack of better words, have no personality

i think this can stem from the fact that they have nothing solid or stable enough to implement into themselves, therefore leading to a lack of sense of self

i feel like water houses (4, 8 & 12) can be tricky to work with, specifically in synastry. since these houses are emotionally geared and are a little more intense than other houses, partnerships can be difficult to deal with, especially if the individuals do not have these house influences in their natal charts

for example, a couple where each individual has a heavy water house influence can find this to be comforting and are likely to be used to this energy while a different couple where both individuals have no water houses influences, it can be uncomfortable or even too intense for the both of them

many say aries moon individuals are naturally unable to handle their emotions--while this may be the case for underdeveloped; i find that developed aries moons are very relaxed and chill (dare i say nonchalant) individuals and do not seem to have rash or “violent” emotions

an astrologer said that those with lots of capricorn/saturn influence tend to look like their fathers & honestly my best friend looks so much like her dad

same concept can apply for cancer/moon influences looking like their mother

having virgo & scorpio placements, especially in mercury and mars can highly dislike incompetence

slight TW: i've noticed that leo placements carry a lot of external insecurities and may try to fix those by becoming obsessed about how their bodies look

eg. body dysmorphia, working out a lot, etc.

this is not a direct indicator of having body dysmorphia, etc.

scorpio placements tend to have a thing with textures when eating--there can be some sort of texture sensitivity

capricorn/lilith in 8th can be really into power play

cancer placements love to be babied lowkey; they take care of others as a means of showing what/how they want someone to take care of them

i think that whatever dominant aspect you have in your chart, you’re more likely to feel/relate to those aspects

eg. square dominant might relate more to their square aspects and see it more in their personalities; trine dominants might relate more to their trine aspects and see it more in their personalities, etc

degrees of the aspect does make a difference whether it’s a tight aspect or wide

saturn in 12th is giving very alone in this lifetime vibes

i feel like virgo can have some link to your genitals

especially if you read my previous note about how virgo and scorpio were once linked

aspects, especially tight ones, to your ascendant and/or midheaven will definitely be seen when you’re around people

virgo, scorpio, sag, mars-mercury (maybe even mars-ascendant) have an abrasive way of speaking and it can come out really aggressive or the wrong way

scorpio risings can fall victim to being trauma dumped on

a fun little theory (or maybe it’s common sense): whatever your top 3 dominant planets are, in terms of synastry, you may find it difficult if your friend/partner/person has personal planets negatively aspecting one of your dominant planets (it also depends on what aspects you have fatally)

for example: someone with a dominant mercury may find it frustrating to be around someone whose personal planets squares their mercury because it can create misunderstandings

it might manifest even more strongly if it’s mercury square mercury for example because they may feel unheard/unfulfilled, especially for the mercury dominant person

it might be felt heavily for the dominant planet person because it carries a heavy influence over that person

scorpio & pisces placements tend to really be interested in fantasy; this can mean themes, movies, books, etc.

having your planets in somone’s 8th house, you’ll feel more intensely (in terms of that planet’s themes) and there’s a chance they may not feel it to the same extent as you

8th house overlays really make you spill your secrets to that person, especially if you have a bond with them (platonic or romantic)

sometimes it can manifest even if you have no relation to a person--it depends on how much 8th house influence there is

hoped y’all liked this :)

#astrology #astro notes #astrology notes #astro observations #astrology observations

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thebibliosphere · 3 years

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So I'm currently unemployed because I got fired for taking too much sick leave (it was legally sketchy blah blah blah but in the end I just can't work and take care of myself and investigate my mystery health problems at the same time). So I've been spending more time writing!

I really admire your writing and loved Hunger Pangs. I'm looking forward to the poly elements developing and I'm wondering if you have any advice for writing about poly. I've made one of my projects a snarky take on "write what you know" ... Apparently what I know is southern gothic meets Pacific northwest gothic, chronic illness pandemic surrealism, and falling back-asswards into threesomes.

I know this is a very open-ended question and I don't expect an answer, I'm just curious about it if you have the energy. As a writer, trying to write honestly / realistically about polyamory/enm, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on what's different about portraying monogamy or nonmonogamy in books, romance or erotica or otherwise.

I'm trying to read examples but it's hard to find examples that fit the niche I'm looking at. Excuse me if this question is nonsense, it's the cluster headaches.

I'm sorry to hear you've been dealing with all that and solidarity on the cluster headaches. But I'm glad you're finding an outlet through writing! And I hope you're happy with an open-ended ramble in response because oh boy, there's a lot I could talk about and I could probably do a better job of answering this sort of thing with more specific questions, but let's see where we end up.

There's definitely a big difference between writing polyamory/ENM (ethical non-monogamy) and what people often expect from monogamous love stories.

Just even from a purely sales and marketing standpoint, the moment you write anything polyamorous (or even just straight up LGBTQIA+ without the ENM) you're going to get considered closer to being erotica/obscene than hetero romances. It's an unfair bias, but it's one that exists in our society. But also the Amazon algorithm and their shitty, shitty human censors. Especially the ones that work the weekends. (Talking to you, Carlos 🖕.)

So not only do you start out hyper-aware that you're writing something that is highly stigmatized or fetishized (at least I'm hyper-aware) but that you are also writing for a niche market that is starving for positive content because the content that exists is either limited, not what they want, or is problematic in some fashion i.e. highly stigmatized or fetishy. And even then, the wants, desires, and expectations of the community you're writing for are complex and wildly varied and hard to fit into an easy formula.

When writing monogamous love stories, there is a set expectation that’s really hard to fuck up once you know it. X person meets Y. Attraction happens, followed by some sort of minor conflict/resolution. Other plot may happen. A greater catalyst involving personal growth for both parties (hopefully) happens. Follow the equation to its ultimate resolution and achieve Happily Ever After.

But writing ENM is... a lot more difficult, if only because of the pure scope of possibilities. You could try to follow the same equation and shove three (or more) people into it, but it rarely works well. Usually because if you’re doing it right, you won’t have enough room in a single character arc to allow for enough growth, and if ENM requires anything in abundance, it’s room to grow.

And this post is huge so I’m going to put the rest under a cut :)

There's also a common refrain in certain online polyam/ENM circles that triads and throuples are overrepresented in media and they may be right to some extent. Personally, I believe the issue isn't that triads and throuples are overrepresented, but that there is such minuscule positive rep of ethical non-monogamy in general, that the few tiny instances we have of triads in media make it seem like it's "everywhere" when in actuality, it's still quite rare and the media we do have often veers into Unicorn Hunter fetish porn. Which is its own problematic thing. And just to be clear, I’m not including this part to dissuade you from writing "falling back-asswards into threesomes." If anything, I need more of it and would hook it directly into my brain if I could. I'm just throwing it out there into the void in the hope that someone will take the thought and run with it, lol.

I’d love to see more polyfidelitous rep in fiction, just as much as I’d like to see more relationship anarchy too. More diversity in fiction is always good.

Another thing that differs in writing ENM romance vs conventional monogamy is the feeling like you need to justify yourself. There's a lot of pressure to be as healthy and non-problematic as possible because you are being held to a higher standard of criticism. Both from people from without the ENM communities, and from the people within. Granted, some people don't give a shit and just want to read some fantastic porn (valid) but there are those who will cheerfully read Fifty Shades of Bullshit and call it "spicy" and "romantic," then turn around and call the most tooth-rottingly-sweet-fluff about a queer platonic polycule heresy. That's just the way the world works.

(Pro-tip for author life in general: never read your own reviews; that way madness lies. I glimpsed one the other day that tagged Hunger Pangs as “ethical cheating” and just about had an aneurism.)

And while that feeling of needing to justify yourself comes from a valid place of being excluded from the table of socially accepted norms, it can also be to the detriment of both the story and the subject matter at hand. I've seen some authors bend so far over backward to avoid being problematic in their portrayal of ENM, they end up being problematic for entirely different reasons. Usually because they give such a skewed, rose-tinted perspective of how things work, it ends up coming off as well... a bit culty and obnoxious tbh.

“Look how enlightened we are, freed from the trappings of monogamy and jealousy! We’re all so honest and perfect and happy!”

Yeah, uhu, sure Jan. Except here’s the thing, not all jealousy is bad. How you act on it can be, but jealousy itself is an important tool in the junk drawer that is the range of human emotion. It can clue us in to when we’re feeling sad or neglected, which in turn means we should figure out why we’re feeling those things. Sometimes it’s because brains are just like that and anxiety is a thing. Other times it’s because our needs are actually being neglected and we are in an unhealthy situation we need to remedy. You gotta put the work in to figure it out. Which is the same as any style of relationship, whether it’s mono, polyam or whatever flavor of ENM you subscribe to* And sometimes you just gotta be messy, because that’s how humans are. Being afraid to show that mess makes it a dishonest portrayal, and it also robs you of some great cannon fodder for character development.

Which brings me in a roundabout way to my current pet peeve in how certain writers take monogamous ideals and apply them to ENM, sometimes without even realizing it. The “Find the Right Person and Settle Down” trope.

Often, in this case, ENM or polyamory is treated as a phase. Something you mature out of with age or until you meet “The One(tm).” This is, of course, an attempt to follow the mono style formula expected in most romances. And while it might appeal to many readers, it’s uh, actually quite insulting.

To give an example, I am currently seeing this a lot in the Witcher fandom.

Fanon Netflix!Jaskier is everyone's favorite ethical slut until he meets Geralt then woops, wouldn’t you know, he just needed to find The One(tm). Suddenly, all his other sexual and romantic exploits or attractions mean nothing to him. Let's watch as he throws away a core aspect of his personality in favor of a man.

Yeah... that sure showed those societal norms...

If I were being generous, I’d say it’s a poor attempt at showing New Relationship Euphoria and how wrapped up people can become in new relationships. But honestly, it’s monogamous bias eking its way in to validate how special and unique the relationship is. Because sometimes people really can’t think of any other way to show how important and valid a relationship is without defining it in terms of exclusivity. Which is a fundamental misunderstanding of how ENM works for a lot of people and invalidates a lot of loving, serious and long-term relationships.

This is not to say that some polyam/poly-leaning people can't be happy in monogamous relationships! I am! (I consider myself ambiamorous. I'm happy with either monogamy or polyamory, it really just depends on the relationship(s) I’m in.) But I also don't regard my relationship with a mono partner as "settling down" or "growing up." It's just a choice I made to be with a person I love, and it's a valid one. Just like choosing to never close yourself off to multiple relationships is valid. And I wish more people realized that, or rather, I wish the people writing these things knew that :P

Anyway, I think I’ve rambled enough. I hope this collection of incoherent thoughts actually makes some sense and might be useful.

----

*A good resource book that doesn't pull any punches in this regard is Polysecure by Jessica Fern. It's a wonderfully insightful read that explores the messier side of consensual non-monogamy, especially with how it can be affected by trauma or inter-relationship conflicts. But it also shows how to take better steps toward healthy, ethical non-monogamy (a far better job than More Than Two**) and conflict resolution, making it a valuable resource both for someone who is a part of this relationship style***, but also for writers on the outside looking in who might have a very simple or misguided idea of what conflict within polyam/ENM relationships might look like, vs traditional monogamous ones.

** The author of More Than Two has been accused of multiple accounts of abuse within the polyamorous community, with many of his coauthors having spoken out about the gaslighting and emotional and psychological damage they experienced while in a relationship with him. A lot of their stories are documented here: https://www.itrippedonthepolystair.com/ (warning: it is not light material and deals with issues of abuse, gaslighting, and a whole other plethora of Yikes.) While some people still find More Than Two helpful reading, there are now, thankfully, much, much better resources out there.

*** Some people consider polyam/ENM to be part of their identity or orientation, while others view it as a relationship style.It largely depends on the individual.

#long post #writing #ethical non-monogamy #relationship styles #relationship models in fiction #also that kindle link is an affiliate link #because fuck giving amazon free recs

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blondehairstripe · 3 years

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So I think that as of S3, Varian is crushing hard on Rapunzel. And in this case, it goes deeper than mere infatuation, given the nature of their relationship and everything that’s transpired between them within the series.

Read on for in-series analysis with screencaps and some bonus post-series fanon speculation!

IN-SERIES ANALYSIS

Before he went villain, I’d say that Varian’s feelings toward Rapunzel were more hero-worship, so he likely thought she was pretty, but undoubtedly out of his league and already taken to boot. No signs of crushing yet—he instead becomes infatuated with the only unattached person who came to visit him: Cassandra.

In my humble opinion, Varian didn’t have a romantic attraction to Rapunzel until it hit him like a bolt of lightning when she told him “It’s your mess, but it’s my kingdom” in Rapunzel’s Return.

Though he was oddly flirty with her while she was in that dungeon cell...

There is also the distinct possibility that the cell was where the first stirrings of a crush began to form during their reconnection. The basis for this theory comes from the absolutely adoring look he gave her when she said “we need him” and how he looked pretty well smitten as she pulled him along.

By the end of the episode Rapunzel frees Quirin, and hoo boy, is that the final nail in Varian’s coffin of feelings. She’d forgiven him his atrocities, kept her word, freed his father—honestly, it’d be weirder if he didn’t fall for her if you ask me.

Then Be Very Afraid rolls along, and we learn that Varian considers Rapunzel “wondrous and magical,” something Rapunzel notes rather slyly and Pascal seems to think is sweet. The look on Varian’s face when she takes his hand and pulls him along again says it all. Boi is smitten.

Additionally...just look at this dork when Rapunzel catches him being a nerd about metals and drinking hot cocoa in Cassandra’s Revenge. This is the reaction of a teenager who just got caught doing something embarrassing by his crush. He zeroes in on Rapunzel specifically and doesn’t seem to care that any of the others caught him.

But through all of these new feelings for Rapunzel, Varian loves Eugene too (90% platonically in this case), so my take is that he’s resolved to not interfere in their relationship. And after everything that’s happened, he likely feels that Eugene is a better match for her and that they truly deserve each other. Though after his stint as a villain where Varian completely lost his respect for the ruling class, the whole “she’s a princess I’m a peasant” thing would likely not be a factor for him anymore. Also, he’s clearly never given a crap about age gaps, and the 4 year gap between him and Rapunzel is even smaller than his canonical S1 crush on Cassandra with an 8 year gap.

Now that we’ve covered the analysis of canonical events, we can delve into pure fanon speculation territory.

POST SERIES SPECULATION

While Varian has indeed resolved to not do a single stupid thing to mess up Rapunzel and Eugene’s relationship, he can’t keep himself from wanting to be close to Rapunzel and craving her affection. Luckily (or unluckily, depending on how you look at it) Rapunzel is a very affectionate person, so she’ll hug Varian, hold his hand, even cuddle him because he’s her precious friend. Also, she’s a pro at giving him the verbal validation that seems to fuel him (aka his love language: words of affirmation).

This results in Varian coming up with excuses and ways to stay close to Rapunzel, and at times when he ends up being sandwich-snuggled between Eugene and Rapunzel (because let’s face it, we’ve seen that Eugene is huggy) he sometimes catches himself trying to pretend Eugene isn’t there, which he instantly feels super guilty about.

Side note: Ruddiger is completely aware of how he feels because Varian is an open book when he’s alone with his little raccoon buddy, and the devious little critter sometimes manipulates situations to try to get Varian alone with Rapunzel or to set them up for what he believes is a romantic encounter (what do you mean being trapped inside a dumpster together isn’t romantic? Intimate dark setting, and all the garbage you can eat!). These setups only work about half the time, and so while Varian appreciates the sentiment, he’d prefer Ruddiger to stay out of it because the failures tend to end with Varian being horribly embarrassed.

And if Rapunzel ever gives him what she views as chaste kisses on the cheek or forehead, Varian’s over the freaking moon and always blushes so hard he almost passes out. Rapunzel finds it cute while Eugene thinks it’s the funniest thing ever and teases Varian he’s gonna have to get over that habit if he ever wants a girlfriend/boyfriend of his own. Whether he’s aware of Varian’s crush or not is up for debate, but he for sure has no idea how deep it runs and thus considers it harmless if he’s aware of it.

Varian probably also frequently gives Rapunzel gifts in order to get her attention and favor in the form of inventions/discoveries he thinks she’ll like. He might even bake her things since we’ve seen he has a knack for it. His favorite thing is if he can get Rapunzel to come work on a project with him, giving him the one-on-one time he craves while doing something he loves.

Also, I think that if anyone were to insult Rapunzel in Varian’s presence, they might find their shoes sticky bombed to the floor. Looking at you, Uncle Monty. Varian might become the second person in Corona to not like him.

Of course, he’s not so obsessed with Rapunzel that he has no life outside of her, since he very much enjoys one-on-one time with both his dad and Eugene (Lance is kind of a 50/50 shot for him, and the girls are like little sisters to him). And of course he spends most of his time in his lab doing alchemy. But he lights up every time Rapunzel enters the room and gravitates towards her, and would do pretty much anything for her.

And for a while, Varian convinces himself that this is fine, and that he doesn’t need Rapunzel to love him back the same way he loves her. Though he feels small flares of jealousy whenever she and Eugene kiss or indulge in other romantic gestures that Varian would never hope or dare to try, but he stomps the jealousy down for the greater good of everyone involved.

The wedding would be super bittersweet for him, since he’d be so happy that his friends have found happiness together, even while knowing that Rapunzel is unquestionably out of his reach now. But that doesn't stop him from continuing to love her. His dad says he’ll get over her one day (his only human confidant, the dude is legendary at keeping secrets), but Varian isn’t so sure.

And from this point, the fanon possibilities are pretty much endless, some of them running the gambit from Varian continuing to respectfully pine for Rapunzel in secret, to him getting over her and finding his own happiness with someone else, to him gradually descending into madness and going just a touch yandere. Depends on what flavor of Varian you’re in the mood for: pining Varian, happy Varian, or villainous Varian. And of course, you can get real fancy and combine different Varian flavors to make something unique!

@varipunzel

#Varipunzel Appreciation Week #varipunzel #varian #rapunzel #tangled the series #rapunzel's tangled adventure #tts #rta #tangled #analysis

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tundrainafrica · 3 years

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So I see your a LeviHan shipper!! I enjoy the ship a lot too!! But are there any specific reason that their your favorite?? Maybe you could explain that a little through a list? But anyways I hope your week has been good so far, Sav. Have a good day/night!!!! - Signed by Your Secret Santa 🎄

Hello! Thank you for asking about my week (and my ship).

I enjoy the ship a lot too!! But are there any specific reason that their your favorite?

To answer that first question...

You’re in for a long rollercoaster ride of a rant because I don’t think I’m the type of person to ship anything to the point of writing domestic fluff fics unless the I felt really really drawn to the ship.

Anyway, (slight) spoilers abound! Will keep manga spoilers subtle, mostly Levihan scenes.

Disclaimer: I do not want to start shipping wars. I specifically avoided the words like should or best because I recognize that shipping is generally based on preferences. I respect everyone’s preferences on what they want out of a ship or even a relationship and through this, I just hope to express my own preferences and maybe even gush with people who agree.

1. The ship did not move the plot. The plot moved the ship.

Attack on Titan is not a romance or a shojo, if it’s not fairly obvious from any chapter you would randomly read. As a reader, I would have expected it to fall short with pairings. Most shows which are not romance based tend to have a few pairings which just suddenly end up together towards the end of the manga because “What’s a happy ending without marriage and kids?” There is usually a trend of just pairing of the extras and sometimes, or maybe even more often than not, it just seems to come out of nowhere (ehem... Naruto.). Maybe the relationship worked off screen but I dunno. Like no shipping war here but the only pairing I had full support for was Shikatema.

In stories classified as romances, there is enough of a spotlight on the sexual tension and mutual pining of specific characters for the romance to be considered reasonable. In my opinion, some authors tend to sacrifice really good world building for a good romance. Objectively twilight for example had some crazy good world building but it just kinda focused a little too much on emo Bella and emo Edward for the world building to actually be appreciated by the casual reader. Tbh though, this is not necessarily bad because people get into stuff for reasons, sometimes, I just wanna read a good fantasy, sometimes I just wanna read a good romance.

Romances though as a main driving point for narratives, require some convenient serendipity moments and sexual tension which can be written well but as a reader, I prefer to see more natural relationships born out of necessity (Wall of Winnipeg and Me by Mariana Zapata is a good example of what I’m talking about in a romance novel.)

Attack on Titan through its narrative actually made Levihan seem VERY VERY possible. If I had to compare the presentation of this ship in canon to at least one relationship in other anime, I would compare it to Royai from FMA.

Like, if Attack on Titan didn’t give us random subtle hints about romantic or just platonic relationships between the two or even about anyone, even if Levi and Hange did get together in the end, it would have been one of the pairings, I probably wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow at.

But they could be just friends? Which brings me to my next point.

2. Their current situation makes it so it’s only natural that at the least, they considered it.

Yes. Friends is a valid interpretation for anything. I mean, given our hook up culture, people can fuck as friends too. People probably have made out drunk as friends too. Like I have seen my fair share of this type of bullshit in high school and college and I would say, we do not need a kiss or a fucking session to recognize that something can be a good relationship or to recognize that they have probably thought about it.

A relationship requires a commitment (conscious or unconscious) to caring for the other, keeping the other safe, recognizing their flaws and thinking about them regularly (Call me scott peck or marriage counselor but like I honestly think the world would be a better place once people recognize that quality romantic relationships are worked for).

Mind you, Levi and Hange lost everything.They literally lost everything from their old life, all their friends, all their loved ones and all they have is each other and they’re forced to take care of a bunch of kids.

There are people who have said before, no one gets very close with someone without ever considering a romantic relationship with them. Or even if they never considered it romantic, they could consider at least “living with them their whole life,” or “supporting them through thick and thin.” The things is, towards the end, they were constantly together and what drove them to that situation is that both of them are aware of what the other had lost. They understood each other more than anyone else and they recognized that they were the only ones left in their own circle and I personally think that is more than enough for a relationship to naturally bloom between them.

3. The relationship and the signs are subtle and it works.

I personally probably would not have enjoyed it if canon showed a romantic relationship of the two after Erwin died. It’s a valid interpretation to consider that it could have happened, based on my explanation for number 2 but Hange is commander, Levi is captain. They have a professional relationship and they have goals and obligations which take precedence over personal desires. They are in the middle of a war and the most which probably could have happened was a secret mutual pining between the two and I think Isayama has injected the most subtle hints which are the most that could have been appropriately put into canon without seeming too OOC. Hange and Levi are not selfish people. They have promises, dreams and obligations which they respect and have committed themselves to already. It has also been shown at earlier points of the manga that they do put their survey corps duties on top of everything so acting on a romantic attraction at that point in time would have definitely been inappropriate.

I personally think, the scenes of Hange going out of her way to save Levi as commander, killing her other soldiers to save both their asses, suggesting in the forest that they live together instead of go back to the war and not leaving an injured Levi until she had no choice were more powerful than a lot of romantic scenes where people actually fuck and kiss. Kissing and fucking are easy. Leaving the duties and responsibilities they have worked for for five years to keep the person they love alive hits way harder.

Call it platonic. Call it romantic. But no one like Hange would have deserted her post as commander for a few chapters to take care of a sick comrade and kill her subordinates to save their asses if there wasn’t anything between them.

4. It gives a great example what healthy relationships can come from.

I grew up reading sweet valley and chick lits cause I was a basic bitch and I kinda grew up with a somehow unrealistic idea of where relationships come from. Call me a late bloomer but I only actually figured out where the romance and the happiness of a relationship was when I got into one with my best friend for five years.

It’s the sexual tension and the “will they wont they?” push and pull which can lead to satisfying sex or a happy ending in romance novels. I think in a way, media kinda overglorifies it which kinda gives a lot of young people the wrong idea about why they getting into a relationship is fun in the first place. Because after the satisfying sex and the kids, what’s next for the relationship?

Years of utility bills, diapers, chores, schedules, parent teacher conferences and compromises until someone gives up or dies. And what kind of relationships can actually thrive through all these?

Those that have mastered the underrated parts of relationships. These include conflict resolutions, compromises and open communication. I think we have seen enough of those two, even before season 3 that have shown that they know each other very well and they have shown to at least have a relatively equal power dynamic which is a foundation for open communication and mutual trust in relationships even beyond the fucking and marriage stage

5. They have a great foundation of character development for both parties.

As I mentioned above, they have a relatively equal power dynamic. I love Royai from FMA and I have compared Royai to this multiple times. I would say though I prefer Levihan over Royai because I felt that Royai had more unequal power dynamics? (Though I still think Royai is a top tier ship ). Also, they have shown to tell off the other when they don’t like what the other is doing. They are complete opposites but here is the magical thing. They talk everything out. They’re generally open people to each other and they know each other way too well as hinted in scenes before and opposites work as long as the others are willing to compromise. I think (especially in season 3 and season 4) that they have done enough for each other and have compromised enough for each other in the survey corps that these skills could easily be brought with them even after the war.

That open communication is just what makes them maintaining a relationship while being complete opposites very OC and realistic. Eventually, they did probably did make compromises, which most likely softened or moderated the crazy parts of their personalities which is just a really fun part of their relationship to explore.

6. It could realistically last so maybe ...

7. A good foundation for happy children?

Maybe it’s how it is written because of the actual story and why would Yams write a romantic drama in a story about genocide and war. Tbh, I would attribute it more to Levi and Hange’s personalities though because Mikasa and Eren have their fair share of drama, mostly one sided though coz Mikasa. This relationship has no drama, no misunderstandings which just further supports my point that they have a relationship that thrives on open communication and mutual trust. Drama is fun like when we’re the ones on the sidelines eating the popcorn but I have third wheeled enough people in my life to realize that I will not support a relationship where both parties are just not ready to be mature about it, in real life and in fiction.

My favorite couples, in real life and in fiction, are definitely those who keep conflict among themselves and maybe among trusted people. I think one sign of a healthy relationship is one where problems don’t become public through social media or through like 20 people. One important yet underrated part of relationships is the atmosphere of comfort and freedom which encourages both parties to be able to directly approach one another before tensions and uncertainties get out of hand.

And a life free of dramas at least in the early stages of life just kinda shows at least that both parties are ready to bring a new life to the world? Because like immature parents with shitty conflict resolution skills really fuck kids up man and I passionately believe the world would really be a better place if babies were born out of trust, mutual understanding and open communication instead of sex but yeah, make sex fun to keep our race alive.

So anyway, I guess, I just finished explaining why I love this ship so much while also disclosing my preferences for relationships.

As mentioned above...

Other pairings which I support for those curious: Shikatema, Royai, Victuuri, Percabeth etc.

Also... To answer your second question...

My week has been great, some pretty solid life developments but US elections wise, not so great... (WHY IS THE ELECTION RACE SO CLOSE?)

#levihan #levi x hange #levi x hanji #levi ackerman #hange zoe #ship #analysis

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2manyfandoms2count · 3 years

Text

A Night at the Opera

A @mlwritersguild Valentine for @noirequin! Happy belated Valentine’s day! 💕

Summary: Chat Noir wanted a date with Ladybug for Valentine's day. Marinette wanted a date with Adrien. When neither option work out, Chat Noir and Multimouse end up on a platonic outing at the Opera. Or at least, that was the plan.

Tags: Marichat, Multichat, Ladynoir, Adrienette, Snekmouse

Read on AO3

---

Adrien sighed wistfully as he listened to Mme Mendeleiev’s lecture, head leaning on his hand.

It wasn’t that chemical structures bored him, far from it. It was just that, looking at the structure of oxytocin on the black board, he couldn’t help but remember that it was also known as the love hormone, which, of course, made him think about Ladybug, which, in turn, made him replay the last conversation they’d had, a couple of nights back.

The moon had been out, shining its bright, kind light over the city. They’d sat down on the edge of a building, wrapped in thick blankets as they watched out for signs of an Akuma. January had seen quite a few emerge at night, and they’d assumed February would probably be no different.

The warm light from the streetlights below, along with the few stars shining from above, had made it all feel quite romantic.

Without looking at her, fearing that his heart might burst out from his ribcage, he’d asked if she was doing anything special for Valentine’s Day.

He’d seen her nod out of the corner of his eye.

“Oh.” He’d managed to utter before a lump took over his throat.

“I’m going to ask out the boy I love.” She’d whispered, a small blush creeping up her cheeks.

“That’s great!” He’d put on his best smile, and tried to sound as supportive as possible, although his voice sounded more high-pitched than he would’ve liked it to. She didn’t seem to notice, or, at least, chose not to comment on it. “I’m sure it will go well. You’re the best, my Lady, he’d be an idiot to turn you down.”

He’d been almost thankful for the ruckus that had emerged a couple of blocks away, providing an effective change in subject.

It felt stupid to torture himself like this, but he couldn’t help it. He resented the jealous feeling that invaded his chest when he thought about the possibility of Ladybug being in love with someone else. He wished he knew who the boy was, to see if he was a suitable match for her. Well, that was his second wish. He really wished he was the boy (it was foolish, he knew). Ladybug had every right to have someone else in her life. And maybe it would be for the best if they got together, too. Seeing her in a happy relationship, maybe he’d find it in him to properly move on.

He sighed again, and leaned back in his seat, hoping the distance might help him concentrate, but his ears perked up at the sound of Marinette and Alya’s whispered conversation. He couldn’t help but listen in.

“Why must everything be about love right now? Honestly I wish I had some oxytocin.” There was a small thud, which Adrien assumed was Marinette landing her head on the table. She did it a lot when she was frustrated, and he really thought it was valid. He didn’t dare flop down from the first row, though.

“You’re pining so hard, it would be a wonder if you didn’t have any.” Alya snorted.

“Alya!” Marinette hissed, although he really couldn’t understand why, before sighing. “Paris is just so wonderful around Valentine’s Day, if only I had someone to share the feeling with.”

“Just stick to the plan, you’ll have someone to frolic in the snow with soon enough.” The aspiring reporter giggled.

The word 'snow' had Adrien’s gaze snap towards the window, and completely wave off the rest of Alya’s words. Sure enough, the morning’s light rain had turned into majestic snowflakes dancing in the wind, a little shy of completely covering surfaces.

It was pretty romantic weather, perfect for walking hand in hand, giggling as the cold reddened your cheeks and snowflakes landed on your eyelashes. Or for snuggling up side by side on a carriage ride around the Champ de Mars. Or for staying in to watch a movie, warming your hands around a hot cup of tea or cocoa.

He could imagine sharing those moments with Marinette. In fact, beside Ladybug, Marinette was the only person he could see himself spending Valentine’s Day with.

He got lost in his thoughts. Maybe he could take the bluenette out for Valentine’s Day. She deserved a break, and he was more than willing to go all out for her to have a good time. They could hit all the romantic spots - strictly platonically, of course. He still wasn’t sure who it was that she liked, but he doubted it could be him.

Really, nothing prevented them from getting some pommes d’amour on the Champs-Elysées together, ride the merry-go-round at the foot of the Eiffel Tower, or the Tuilerie's Grande Roue. It could all be great fun.

But then again… He wasn’t sure how much she’d enjoy going out with him. They were bound to run into some fans, disturbing their tranquillity.

Or worse: the press. He could already see the headlines: Does Adrien Agreste have a girlfriend? All you need to know about Marinette Dupain-Cheng! She didn’t need people lurking about, trying to find juicy information about her.

And that, of course, would only possibly happen if his father allowed him to go out in the first place. He sighed. The man made everything a real hassle.

There were clearly too many obstacles, if he wanted to spend some quality time with his friend.

That being said, a little voice in his head whispered, there is one purr-son who doesn’t have to answer to anyone, and could sneak out fairly easily. Someone who could fade into the night to avoid the crowds, and had access to even more romantic spots of the capital.

A satisfied smile spread on Adrien’s lips as he relaxed into his seat. Neither he, nor Marinette, would spend Valentine’s Day alone this year.

And he already knew exactly where Chat Noir would be taking her.

---

“Adrien?” Marinette called after him on the school steps at the end of the day. The skies had cleared earlier, and the snow had already melted, making the ground quite slippery underfoot.

“Yes, Marinette?” He turned around with a bright smile as he waited for her to join him at the bottom of the staircase. Her steps were measured, her breathing controlled, but she was wringing her hands, giving away a certain tension. He noticed that a light blush dusted her cheeks, although it could also have been the nipping cold. The colour looked good on her.

“Um…” She cleared her throat, and stood a little taller. “I was wondering… Are you doing anything next Thursday?”

“You mean for Valentine’s Day?” His smile widened. He knew he’d be turning her down, but if she was asking him about his availability, it meant that she was definitely free.

His question seemed to catch her off-guard, and her own brave smile faltered. “Oh, is it already Valentine’s? Gosh, time flies by so quickly, don’t you think?” She chuckled nervously. “Anyway, I… I forgot about that detail, I was definitely asking you out. I mean! Not! Asking you out!” Her eyes widened in panic. “I was just thinking… Since, you know… We’re both single… Maybe we could hang out? Definitely not anywhere romantic, just-”

“You know, I really would have loved to spend Valentine’s Day with you.” He interrupted her with a chuckle, gently touching her forearm. She froze, and her cheeks flamed up.

“Really?” She squeaked. Kwami, she’s adorable, he thought with a smile.

“Yeah!” Seeing her like this, he had to fight back the urge to change his mind and say yes to her straight away. Remember your plan, the voice in his head spoke again. She’ll love it so much more. “It would be so much better than what my father has planned for me.” He rolled his eyes, silently hoping that he wasn’t invoking a real hold-up.

“Oh.” She sounded almost disappointed. “Another photoshoot?”

“I’m not even sure, at this point. I just know there’s something.” He shrugged as defeatedly as he could muster. “Maybe we could hang out some other time, though? I miss my UMS partner.” He winked.

“That would be nice.” She gave him a small smile.

A honking sound made them both jump. Adrien turned around and saw his bodyguard was waiting for him in his car. He waved at him sheepishly. He couldn’t run too late on his schedule, or he wouldn’t be able to fit in his little visit to Marinette.

“See you around, then!” He smiled at her before running towards the car.

She just waved in response.

---

“I’m so pathetic, Tikki, what even was that?” Marinette groaned as she finally flopped down on her bed after finishing her homework, covering her face with her hands. “What is wrong with me? I mean, never mind telling him I love him, why can’t I even ask him out without instantly backtracking?”

“You’ll do it one day, Marinette.” She felt her Kwami’s flippers pat her head gently.

“I’m not sure I will.” She rolled over to her side, hugging her pillow against her chest. “You saw the way he looked at me before I said it wouldn’t hold any romantic implications. He doesn’t like me that way.”

“You know, I wouldn’t-”

Tikki’s sentence was interrupted by a light thud above their heads, followed by footsteps, which sent her zooming behind Marinette’s books.

A few seconds later, a familiar masked face peeked over her skylight, face brightening with a smile as he saw her. Marinette got up and opened the latch, letting him in.

“Hi, Marinette!” Chat Noir said excitedly as he carefully climbed down, mindful not to step on her pillows. He sat cross-legged at the foot of her bed, looking very smug.

“Hey, Chat Noir.” She smiled softly. He really knew when to show up to cheer her up. Maybe they did share a special connection. “What’s up?”

“You’re going to love this.” His smile grew wider, if that was possible, and he started rocking back and forth, as he went straight to the point. “Do you have any plans for Valentine’s day?”

“No, as usual.” She sighed, meeting Adrien’s gaze on one of his pictures.

“Then you’re in luck because I have one ticket for the best night Paris will offer.” His eyes sparkled in the half-light of her room. “I’m taking you out on an adventure.”

“Oh?” Marinette’s eyebrows shot up.

“Yep.” He popped the “p” sound. “I have something great in mind for my favourite mouse.”

“Leftovers from your plan for Ladybug?” She tried teasing. It came out a little more abrupt than she’d intended, but her soft gaze smoothened the edge a little. She’d been so quick to say no to Chat, she hadn’t considered that, being his very thoughtful self, he’d probably had a whole event planned.

He looked more offended than hurt at her words. “Of course not! In fact, I think it might actually be better than my original plan, believe it or not.” He crossed his arms over his chest and stuck his tongue out.

“Sorry, kitty, that was uncalled for.” She placed a hand on his knee, and sighed. “It’s been a long day.”

“That’s alright, Princess.” He smiled and covered her hand with his. Maybe he’d been a little too abrupt with his refusal earlier, and he’d actually hurt her feelings. Marinette did look pretty tired, which he knew from experience could lead to misinterpretations.

“So, what did you have in mind?” She cleared her throat.

“It’s a surprise.” He waggled his eyebrows mysteriously. “The only thing I’ll say is that I’m a sucker for romance, and I might be pulling all the stops for the evening. Even if we’re just hanging out as friends, obviously. Why should couples have all the fun?”

“It’s completely unfair.” She nodded. The thought that maybe it wouldn’t be that bad if they actually were a couple crossed her mind. It wasn’t like she didn’t really like Chat Noir already. There was a part of her she’d actively tried to repress that was very intent on saying that if anything, Chat Noir was very hot on Adrien’s orange Converse’s heels in the race for her affection. Maybe it was time to let him take the lead. If he wanted to, of course.

But really, anyway, going on a date with him (a platonic one, at that) didn’t engage anything. It would always be more than what she’d had with Adrien. And it really couldn’t hurt to expand her horizons a little further than the one Adrien Agreste.

“There is one thing I still need to sort out, and that is how to get the Mouse Miraculous for you.” Chat Noir tapped his chin thoughtfully.

Marinette bit back a smile. “I could take care of that for you, if you want.”

“Really?” He asked, sounding almost relieved. Not that it would have been a huge hassle to get it from Ladybug, just that if he was to set everything up for their night out, he was almost sure it would slip his mind.

“Yeah, don’t worry about it.” She smiled angelically. “Any reason in particular that I should invoke?”

“Just anonymity.” He shrugged. It was true, to a certain extent. It would obviously be a lot easier to explain to a wandering gardien de nuit why two superheroes were hanging around his monument, even if they were in the middle of a picnic. Another reason was a pun, but neither Marinette, nor Ladybug, needed to know that. Ladybug would probably say no if she knew. And finally, it didn’t hurt that Marinette looked particularly badass as Multimouse. Really, he just wanted her to get used to her powers, was all.

“Okay, will do.” Marinette played with the fabric of her pillowcase. “Anything else I can bring?”

Chat Noir’s pupils dilated hungrily at the thought of Tom & Sabine’s macarons. He shook his head. “Maybe some macarons?” He asked as nonchalantly as possible, even though it was pretty clear she was not fooled.

“I’m sure that can be arranged.” She smirked and patted his thigh gently. “Passion fruit, right?”

“You know me so well, Purr-incess.” He leaned forwards and kissed her cheek, before standing up unsteadily on the soft mattress and pushing her skylight up.

“Pick you up at 7pm?” He asked before lifting himself out.

“I’ll be there.” She watched him vault away across the rooftops, then closed the window and wrapped herself in her blanket.

Maybe she’d get a not-so-platonic Valentine’s evening with a passion fruit macaron lover after all.

---

“Stop!” Chat whispered, flattening himself behind a pillar and extending an arm to block Multimouse’s path. She squeaked at the sudden contact and he flinched, looking wildly at the incoming warden from the safety of their hiding place.

The latter walked past without a second glance, humming along to the Swan Lake Waltz which could be faintly heard coming from behind the closed doors lining the corridor. Chat Noir let out a sigh of relief as he disappeared around the corner, and tiptoed out, ears flickering around in search of any sound.

“All clear.” He gestured for her to come out of hiding, and resumed his path on the richly carpeted hallway.

“You know, when you said that you had romantic plans in mind, I didn’t really picture us breaking into the Opéra Garnier.” Multimouse jogged to catch up with him (he walked surprisingly fast, even loaded with a giant picnic basket), her heart beating even quicker than during their first close call. At this rate, she probably wouldn’t survive the evening.

“Me? Doing anything illegal? You wound me my L…” He stopped shy of blurting out “my Lady”. It felt so natural to speak with Marinette like this; honestly, it was like talking to Ladybug.

Maybe because both Ladybug and Marinette shared the ability to worry about anything. As if he’d put her in any danger.

Marinette raised her eyebrows and she shot him a pointed look, daring him to finish the thought. If he’d looked more closely, though, he would have noticed she’d tensed up.

“My little rat de l’Opéra.” He saved himself, gulping.

She rolled her eyes. “So that’s why you needed me to suit up. It’s all a very elaborate pun.”

“Maybe.” He smiled mischievously and stopped in front of a door, double-checking the namecard shoved above the little doorbell. His ears drooped a little as he covered it with his hand to prevent Marinette from seeing it. He put his basket down and opened the door for her. Memories came flooding back as he took in the chairs and the view.

His mother had always loved the Opera, and especially the Palais Garnier. He remembered coming here with her as a little kid, after his father had offered her a box for Christmas. He’d felt so shy and small as they climbed the grand staircase. It had been the first time he’d worn a suit; he remembered people had stopped them and gushed about how cute he was. He’d clung to Emilie’s gloved hand, hiding in her midnight blue skirt as she thanked them. She’d smiled and ruffled his hair tenderly as they continued their ascension, before bringing him to this very door. She’d picked him up and handed him the card, whispering in his ear to slide it in the cardholder.

“What does it say, Maman?” He’d asked when the task was accomplished.

“It says that this is our special place.” She’d kissed his cheek and taken him inside, where red velvet chairs awaited, as well as a whole musical universe.

The card just said Agreste family, he realised now. He didn’t think he’d ever noticed before; he’d always been too excited by the shows to linger at the door. It wasn’t like they came frequently, even when Emilie was still alive. Since then, they’d stayed away, but clearly Gabriel hadn’t found it in him to cancel the rental of the box. That, or he’d forgotten all about it.

“Everything alright, Kitty?” Multimouse’s head poked back out when he didn’t follow her inside.

“Yeah, peachy.” Chat shook away the memories, forcing a small smile, and walked into the box, making sure he closed the door behind them. “So, what do you think?”

Marinette leaned over the bannister. This was an excellent location; they had a prime view of the stage and of the rest of the room, but were high up enough that anyone on stage wouldn’t see them.

Which was a good thing tonight, given that there clearly was a rehearsal going on.

“It’s beautiful,” she whispered as she watched the dancers glide, jump, and land gracefully in a symphony of pitter-patters, barely audible over the orchestra even with her enhanced hearing. She wondered if her companion had asked her to transform so she could fully appreciate that experience. “Really, Chat, it’s amazing.”

“I’m glad you like it.” He smiled; it was genuine, this time. She looked like a little kid on Christmas day, her eyes eating up the flurry of colours on stage. Maybe she’d design the costumes herself, one day. After all, she was already getting stage experience with Kitty Section and Jagged Stone.

“Do you come here often?” She turned around to face him.

“Not really.” He chose to leave out the fact it was actually his first time back since his mother’s disappearance. It wasn’t exactly a good Valentine’s Day topic. “But it does hold a special place in my heart, and I had a feline you’d be happy here.”

She rolled her eyes at the pun, but a small blush coloured her cheeks. Or maybe there’d just been a lighting change, he couldn’t tell. “I am, thanks, Kitty.”

They stared at each other from the safe distance of the box’s length, until all the Orchestra joined in for the apotheosis of the mouvement, making them jump slightly, looking away as they cleared their throats.

Chat Noir decided to busy himself by opening the basket he’d brought. He expertly shook out the tablecloth to set it flat in the small aisle. It was less romantic than a restaurant, but he thought the cosiness of the setting made up for it. It wasn’t anywhere you could have rich velvet seats and a private ballet show.

Multimouse pretended to follow the show below, watching him carefully switch on small electric candles and pepper their surroundings with them out of the corner of her eye. He then started setting a large amount of food down, before taking out a small vase of pink roses and placing it in the middle of their improvised table. She had to say, it all looked very fancy for a picnic.

“Would Mademoiselle care to join me for dinner?” Chat Noir bowed when he was satisfied everything was in order.

“Avec plaisir, très cher.” She giggled, daintily picking up an invisible skirt to sit down.

Marinette was very impressed. She kept forgetting, or rather, quashing, how thoughtful Chat Noir could be. Everything looked so lovely, the perfect amount of intimate, fun and reprehensible, which she surprisingly didn’t mind so much. If anything, it made the date feel that much more exclusive.

Her companion followed suit, but pulled a displeased face as he looked around.

“Just a second,” he shot up and carefully pulled the tablecloth closer to the bannister. Marinette scooted along, watching carefully over the objects set out on it, ready to spring into action if anything threatened to topple over. She appreciated the relocation, though; there was more space thanks to the extra leg room at the front, and they had a better view of the events on stage. “There, purrfect.” He smiled, pleased with himself.

Her heart rate quickened at the thought that it really was just the two of them in a romantic setting, and she was thankful for the distraction Chat provided by pulling out a glass bottle and two flutes from his basket.

“Can I interest you in some sparkling apple juice?” He asked as he started undoing the bottle’s wire cage.

“Yes, please.” She cleared her throat.

She watched him struggle with the cork, and her eyes widened as it flew off with a loud 'pop'. Her reflexes kicked in just in time, allowing her to catch it before it could fall out of the box.

They stared at each other wildly for a couple of minutes, completely frozen but for their hearts beating wildly, as they waited for someone to come bursting through the door to throw them out or arrest them. After what felt like an eternity of nothing happening, the show below continuing without so much as a wrong note, they started sniggering, covering their mouths to make as little noise as possible.

“Nice catch there, Princess.” Chat handed her a glass.

“Thanks.” Maybe being a superhero didn’t help with expressing her feelings, but it had done wonders for her clumsiness, especially when it came to Chat Noir. It was like she could anticipate his movements. Or maybe she just was less clumsy than him.

The interested party cleared his throat, holding out his flute. “To platonic Valentines.”

“Especially the ones planned by you.” Marinette clinked their glasses together, and took a sip before continuing. “This really is something else, Kitty. You’ll have to tell me how much I owe you.” She popped a gougère in her mouth, and almost melted at the delicate taste.

“Absolutely nothing. Your presence is all I need to make it worthwhile.” He smiled softly, making her heart skip a beat.

“Are you sure?” She squinted when he nodded fervently. “Are you secretly rich, or something?”

“Maybe.” It was Chat Noir’s turn to feel his face heat up. This conversation could quickly become a slippery slope. “Anyway, anything I could have done to improve this evening?” He nonchalantly dipped a carrot stick in hummus.

“Well, it’s still early, but I think it’s actually pretty perfect as is.” She escaped his gaze, feeling her conflicted feelings surface. She wasn’t sure that saying that there was nobody else she’d rather be with would be entirely false, yet she felt it wouldn’t be entirely true either.

“You wouldn’t mind me being somebody else, wouldn’t you?” Chat asked gently when her silence stretched for a little too long, as if reading her thoughts.

“I was actually thinking maybe asking if we could be there would be a good idea? Just to avoid your date having to be rushed off for a heart attack…” She started, but decided to backtrack when he gave her a pointed look. “Fine. Maybe. But I promise it’s nothing against you!”

“I know.” He smiled and reached for her hand, squeezing it compassionately. “I’d be lying if I said a little part of me didn’t wish to be with Ladybug right now.”

Multimouse squeezed his hand back as she searched for his eyes. “You know she loves you very much, right?” She couldn’t just say that actually he was in luck because he was with Ladybug tonight, when the person she would’ve liked to be with was stuck somewhere awful.

“Yeah, I do.” He smiled tightly, before clearing his throat. “But anyway, who’s lucky enough to have stolen the heart of Marinette Dupain-Cheng?”

“A… good friend.” She changed her mind in the middle of her reply. “I don’t want to ruin our friendship, though. And I don’t think he likes me that way.”

“You won’t know until you ask him,” he pushed with a supportive smile.

“That’s what my best friend keeps telling me, too,” she sighed. “I can’t bring myself to tell him, though. I’m… I’m afraid of the rejection.”

It was stupid, really. Adrien was so lovely, he’d never hurt her intentionally. But still, the fear remained.

“Yeah, it’s not the best feeling.” Chat winced, and Marinette cursed herself for bringing up the topic. “That being said,” he added when he saw her ready to apologise, “I’d rather Ladybug know how I feel about her, rather than let my feelings eat me up. Plus, she knows I’m an option, if she ever changes her mind.”

He wondered if this would be a good time to tell her that, had he met her before Ladybug, she would probably be the one receiving all of his love declarations. He wasn’t sure it would make her feel better, though. It wasn’t like she liked him like that, and he didn’t want her to feel like she was his second choice. She was just as lovely as Ladybug.

“I think he loves someone else, though,” Marinette muttered in her drink. He’d said as much when they’d gone to the musée Grévin.

“Trust me, I’ve heard that one before.” He winked. “Maybe the reason we get along so well is that we’re both idiots who stay stuck on one person instead of moving on.”

“Maybe.” They smiled at each other.

Marinette mused that maybe it wouldn’t be so difficult to move on if she did it with Chat. They could support each other. Find comfort, and maybe something else, along the way.

The other option would be to move on alone, wearing another mask than the one she was wearing. By the look of things, though, she’d have to be quick about it, in case Chat decided to move on first.

“Anyway,” she cleared her throat for what felt like the thousandth time in the evening, thinking it was getting more and more dangerous to drown into her partner’s eyes. “What’s your perfect date idea?”

Chat paused, and started playing with his glass as he thought.

“Well, if I actually was at liberty of doing anything… I think something like this would suit me just fine. I’m being very self-indulgent, tonight.” His eyes twinkled in the dim lighting. “But, I’d also really like to ride the Tuilerie's Grande Roue; tucked in with a nice blanket, the city at our feet…”

“What a cheeseball,” she chuckled. It sounded very nice, though.

“Aren’t mice supposed to like that?” He smirked.

“I guess they can be tempted, from time to time.” She grabbed a cheese stick and bit into it, maintaining his gaze.

He was the first to break contact, hoping the lighting would conceal his blush. It probably wouldn’t do to kiss Multimouse, as adorable as she looked right now. Or to just pick her up and carry her all the way to the Tuileries to recreate his little daydream.

The silence stretched on, not uncomfortably, but something seemed to be missing nonetheless.

“Hey, the music stopped.” He realised, looking through the bannister. Sure enough, the stage and the orchestra pit were empty, although the lights hadn’t been switched off yet. It gave him an idea.

“Have you ever done ballet before?” He asked, a twinkle in his eye as he stood up and extended a hand to help her up.

“I took classes when I was little, but I stopped quickly. I preferred fixing my friends’ tutus to actually being on stage.” She smiled bashfully.

He chuckled. He could picture that very well. “How would you feel about having the Opéra stage to yourself?”

“I’m not sure I’d be worthy of it, but I do kind of like the idea.”

“Let’s go then!” He extended his baton, and automatically moved to wrap an arm around her waist so they could hop down, but his arm froze mere inches from her body. Maybe Multimouse would want to use her jumping rope, instead of hitching a ride with him.

His friend smiled and moved closer, draping an arm around his shoulders. “Yes, let’s.”

Chat felt a warm feeling spread in his chest as he held her close. He let go of her on stage, and hopped into the orchestra pit to conceal his fluster.

“Does the Etoile of the night have any music preference?” He asked as he sat at the piano. It was conveniently placed so the player could see the performers.

“None at all.” She replied, sliding her foot in a half circle in front of her, testing the ground.

He pondered. He didn’t know any of the Swan Lake pieces, but he supposed Saint-Saëns’ Swan would do just as well.

Multimouse closed her eyes, and let herself be carried by the music. She sailed across the stage, twirling gracefully; Chat’s eyes were glued to her and her hypnotising movements. It wasn’t exactly ballet, but somehow looked a million times more elegant.

He tried to keep the music going for as long as he could, watching her smile blissfully as she danced. He tried to capture the image in his head. She looked so carefree, for once, so beautiful. He was glad to have given her that, and he was grateful for her sweetening his memories of the Opera.

Multimouse wished Chat Noir would never stop playing. His rendition of the piece was so peaceful, so gentle, he made her feel like time had stopped. Like it was just them and the music, with nothing else mattering in the world.

After the third repetition, he let the last note resonate in the room. She didn’t want it to end, though.

“Hey, Chat Noir?” She murmured, not wanting to disrupt the atmosphere.

“Yes?”

“Would you come and dance with me?” She opened her eyes, and Chat Noir stood up automatically. He made his way up to her slowly, never breaking eye contact, as if in a trance.

He held out a hand, which she took, and pulled her close.

They spun around for a bit, lost in each other’s gaze. He made her twirl, making her almost regret she wasn’t wearing a dress, and dipped her.

Both of their hearts went haywire at the proximity.

Chat's eyes flickered to Marinette's lips, and he decided to pull her up before he could do anything stupid. He kept her close as they slow-danced, though.

“Hey, Marinette?” He interrupted the silence after a while.

She hummed in reply, revelling in his proximity.

“Who was it you wanted to spend tonight with?” Chat Noir whispered as they spun cheek to cheek, one of his hands on the small of her back, the other holding hers. “Another superhero?”

“Sort of. I mean, he’s been picked once, although I don’t think you’ve met him properly… Remember Aspik?” She blushed as she felt his breath tickle her ear.

Chat Noir pulled back a little to see her face, revealing his own broad smile. He was so lucky. She liked him. “Really? Adrien Agreste? You're in luck, Princess, it just so happens that I know him quite well... He actually told me he was very disappointed not to spend tonight with you, maybe I could arrange a date for the two of you?”

“I’m not sure I’d want that anymore, though.” She murmured. Her eyes fluttered elegantly and landed on his lips.

It took all of his self-control not to say that, actually, she didn't have to choose, since wherever he went, Adrien and Aspik went, too. Which meant there was none left to prevent him from closing the space between their lips.

What a shame, he smiled as she wrapped her arms around his neck.

He was kissing Marinette. It was nice. Very nice. And she liked him. Adrien Agreste.

Well, Aspik, but that made no difference.

Except it does, he pulled back suddenly as he hit an epiphany.

She looked up at him inquisitively, almost disappointed that the moment was over.

“How do you know about Aspik?” Chat Noir squinted at her. “You weren’t there.”

Crap, she thought. Here I was, thinking I’d been doing so well. She wondered what her next step should be. She could protest. Pretend that she and Ladybug had talked about it together.

She felt the heat rise to her cheeks as she stumbled for words. She seriously considered kissing him again. Maybe it would make him drop the subject.

“Unless… You were.” He said, almost in awe, before letting out a small chuckle. “It would seem like we make a great pair of idiots, my Lady. We managed to fall in love with different sides of the mask.”

“That’s why you went AWOL that day.” Realisation dawned on her face, and he nodded.

They stared at each other, Multimouse’s hands still tangled in his hair, Chat Noir’s hands wrapped around her waist.

“Well, so much for a platonic Valentine’s, then.” He smirked.

“I think that was off the table the moment you kissed me anyway,” she breathed.

“You know I wouldn’t have gone for it had I not felt like it would be right.”

“And you know I love you for it.” She smiled, standing on her tiptoes to press her lips to his. She tried to express how glad she was that everything was turning out like this. She also hoped it would distract him from the fact she’d just blurted out that she loved him.

“Hey Chaton?” She broke off, and he rested his forehead against hers.

“Yep?”

“We haven’t had dessert.”

“Why, my Lady, what a scandalous statement.” He teased as she rolled her eyes.

“How about we end this date the way we both wanted? We could get the macarons, and go sit at the very top of the Grande Roue. There’ll be nobody to stop us.”

“See, this is exactly why I love you.” He kissed her nose and picked her up bridal style, eliciting a small yelp from her. “We just need to make one stop on the way, to get the snake Miraculous. I couldn’t deny you of a date with dear Aspik now, could I?”

She giggled and hung on more tightly to him as he carried her out of the building.

Really, the evening couldn’t have gone better in her dreams.

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elriel-oblivion · 3 years

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Okay here's the thing.. I respect everyone's opinions and they can ship whoever they want but like... For Elucien and Gwynriel... I literally cannot even see how. I would gladly ship them if someone gave me a valid reason. Elain avoids talking or even being in the same room as Lucien, and Azriel had one polite conversation with Gwyn. Az is just nice to her. As nice as he would be to any female. Elriel has foreshadowing & chemistry- The roses painted on her drawer and the rose necklace...👀

Strongly agree with all of this!! My main problem with anything that's not elriel is that a lot of anti-elriel shippers completely ignore or erase Elain. With these ships, it's always what benefits Elain does or doesn't bring. It's so misogynistic, people just ignore everything she's mentioned about her own heart and how she doesn't want a mate or the bond, she doesn't care for it, but oh Lucien's had such a hard life, he deserves his mate!!!!!

😒😒😒

Surely he deserves someone who wants him as much as he wants them, no?

Non-elriel-endgame with the canon we currently have would mean Elain's choices are stripped once again since she'd have to give up/lose the love she actually wants in favour of one she doesn't want that's attached to some cultural concept that means zilch to her and her human heart. I mean, sure sjm could spin it so Elain catches feelings for Lucien and they end up happily mated. But then what is the point of having Elain constantly avoid him for three books? That's not even setting up for a good relationship bc every time they interact/meet, the communication just gets worse.

While I can honestly see the potential of gwynriel bc platonic interactions can later become romantic, I still don't ship it bc it doesn't feel right the way elriel does to me. I can def see gwynriel becoming a strong healthy friendship, but if it's endgame then Elain ends up with Lucien, whom she visibly shrinks from and has been avoiding since acowar. She doesn't feel seen by him at all - as much as I love Lucien and truly do want him to have his own HEA, we can't deny that he's really just pursuing (I use pursuing in the loosest way since he's very respectful about it 😅) Elain bc of the bond. If we take that away, there's nothing between them imo and he probably wouldn't give Elain more than a passing glance for her beauty and that's it bc she's not the type of girl he's into.

But people don't wanna think about how that makes Elain feel. This girl who previously felt seen by only one person - who then rejected her bc of that bond itself - and craves someone to see who she truly is, is being courted by someone who doesn't actually like her for her, but just the idea of what a relationship with her would entail. He's only trying bc of some divine belief she doesn't share. That must suck like hell. It's almost objectfying, the bond. And again, I don't blame Lucien at all, not even for trying bc it is something that's important to him and his culture, but it's not a mutual thing. If it were important to Elain too and she just wasn't cooperating bc of some stupid shallow reason, then I'd be angry at her. But that's not the case at all.

But with Azriel, the first person to see her since Graysen, there's so much potential for growth - for both of them. They make each other feel seen. And for all that antis say neither has grown in the time they've known each other, how did Az pluck up the courage to almost kiss Elain after having not done anything with Mor for five centuries? How did Elain initiate that kiss - ie have the courage to follow her heart again after having it torn and shredded by Graysen? And anyway, weve never seen into Elain's head so we don't know what she feels has changed within her; we can only detect subtle changes from other povs, but there might be some huge changes in her learnt from Azriel, maybe about her outlook on life/strength, that she's just keeping hidden for the time (or that no one has bothered to see bc Elain is invisible 😭). Same with Azriel. One little chapter isn't gonna tell us everything he's been thinking the past two years.

But either way, we know now that they both have feelings for each other. Why is a mutual healthy relationship shut down so quickly, one where both partners' choices are taken heed of? If Elain had said no in that moment, Azriel would've stepped back instantly, no questions asked. He probably would've have some huge internal conflict about his own self worth but he wouldn't have gone further without Elain's consent. He's already shown he respects her, he said they've been sharing looks and touches, and these are things fandom eat up, so I don't understand why it's suddenly wrong or unwanted just bc Elain makes up half the ship.

And there's so much foreshadowing/symbolism that antis seem oblivious to, which, fair enough, interpret the text how you want. But even if somebody doesn't see the spark or blooming feelings between the pair throughout the books (how do they explain away all the stiffness whenever one of them is mentioned or is in the same room or something though? Genuinely curious here), there's a lot of plot foreshadowing. The Blood Duel has now been mentioned twice, as has the idea of breaking the bond, maybe more. There's the issue with Koschei and Elain not being able to see things related to him past mist and shadow. There's all this potential conflict that could arise between the Courts if elriel pursue their love, and conflict is the driving force of any novel.

If gwynriel were an IRL couple, I wouldn't care if there were never any conflict, but if I'm reading their story, I want more than just them falling in love and having internal conflict about whether they should kiss the other or not. Especially if the backdrop is a fantasy world on the brink of war with many players. I saw a gwynriel post mentioning Merrill once and while I do think she has the potential to be a running antagonist, I don't see her as anything but a subplot/crony for/associate with another stronger villain. I don't think she could carry a whole novel at the moment. So Gwyn is tied to nothing in the overarching plot. Same with Az. Not to mention all the theories about the Koschei/Swan Lake/firebird folklore that is potentially inspiring this new series in the acotar world. Of course, this could all change as we get more info about the next book/s and all, but compared to elriel certainly, I don't think there's as much conflict with gwynriel.

Ultimately, I don't claim knowledge of the next books' content, so I don't really care what people ship, but the main thing I take issue with is how they treat Elain in the midst. A lot of gwynriel arguments I've seen portray certain acts in a romantic/positive light for Gwyn but either completely ignore or erase any semblance of romance for Elain or tear her down. Like, we shouldn't push the narrative that Gwyn as an SA survivor can't have healthy meaningful sex in the future (yeah, of course I agree), yet some of the same people who say that are also people who judge and make fun of Elain and call her too vanilla for Az without having a clue what her bedroom habits/preferences are 🤯 This is just one of many. There are so many double standards I've seen for gwynriel against elriel and I'm just tired of it. And even if they're not doing any of that, they simply hate Elain and don't want her to be with Az and so ship gwynriel as the next best alternative. Like, can they not push down Elain in favour of Gwyn, please? That's so misogynistic 🤮

For all that this fandom flaunts the series being feminist with strong female characters, they sure do a good job in tearing down females who don't fit their definition of strong, despite even Feyre stating and acknowledging multiple times that Elain has a different kind of strength 😒

Gahhhhhhh. *exhales deeeeeeeeply* Sorry this is so damn LONG!! 😅😅😅😅😅 I did not expect to write a whole bloody essay lol but I hope it was fun/comforting to read at least 😅😆 I know I fall back on elriel posts when the ship war gets too intense bc I actually enjoy shipping elriel. They've become my otp, and I absolutely adore both characters of the ship; I think most of us elriels do. I haven't really seen any elriel stans who dislike/don't care for Elain and her welfare so it's nice being in this corner of the fandom where we can appreciate both Az and Elain equally. And of course, the other characters with their due respect. I truly do want Lucien to finally get his good life, but I don't think that's with Elain 😕

#elain archeron #elriel #azriel acotar #elain x azriel #Acotar #Acosf spoilers

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fourangers · 3 years

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Hi Fourangers,

First of all, I love your blog so much. It's like going through a history back when Naruto Manga chapters were released weekly and your reviews were so Golden, Hilarious and spot-on. Am a new fan though (especially an SNS fan), I just got into this fandom only this year. I don't know if you'll answer my ask, but I just wanted to try and ask you few questions and I pray that you might answer me....

1. Since you've written in a post that you were active in the eastern part of the fandom, How was chapter 698 received in Japan? Because this is the chapter I inherently realized they both love each other. Yeah, I was too late but somehow whenever they interact with each other in previous chapters I always find them to be 'Weird' for just to be friends. Chapter 698 is just blatantly obvious that they love each other. Considering Homophobia and Shounen genre, I have no idea how it was perceived over there back then in 2014.

2. Which scene made you to ship SNS?

3. As an SNS'er how do you feel about the ending, where everyone was married off when they were just 19 just to make some shitty sequel??? As a new fan, I felt betrayed and It would've been perfect if they had stopped at chapter 699, leaving an open ending.

4. How do you face with the accusation about Naruto and Sasuke as brothers and we, SNS'ers are Incest shippers??? I don't care about that Indra and Ashura thing. But Naruto himself told he considers Sasuke as his Brother couple of times. And in Chapter 699, Sasuke acknowledged, 'He finally understood what it meant'.... It's the only thing that confuses me and I don't even have an answer!!! Plus, Kishi himself gave an interview that he based Sasuke on his Brother... I really wonder how he gave such an interview when he literally made them wear necklaces with each other's faces.

5. How was Naruto and Sasuke's sexuality perceived in the fandom back then??? Man!! Kishimoto just made lot of comic reliefs on their sexuality by making Sasuke on Sai jutsu, Naruto not interested in Icha Icha but making Reverse Harem no Jutsu, Naruto was angry when Konohamaru made Boy on Boy jutsu whereas he had no problem with him doing it. LOL. And all those homoerotic posters. What do you think about their sexuality, personally??

6. Why did Kishi had to develop their bond as Soulmates with some unintentional or intentional romantic undertones, if he was eventually going to pair them up with girls??? He easily could've gave many such romantic tropes to other girls and keep the bond between N and S as purely friendship or brothers. It still would've made sense.

7. Final one, Was Naruto really Nosebleeding when Kurama made a joke about Sasuke's kiss in Chapter 572???? We had a lot of heated discussion with other shippers where they claim that it was just a splotch of snot.

Sorry for the lengthy ask....... I am so eager to know your answers and I don't want to spam your ask box by sending multiple asks.

Thanks 😊😊😊

Hey yo! Welcome new SNS fan! I'm so glad that you joined us and I'll try to answer as best as I can. I'm not very active here on tumblr (except browsing lol) but your ask was such a delight to read.

1. I honestly don't remember. I think I didn't follow the japanese boards until the eventual 699-700 disaster. People were craving for reactions and I was curious about it too lol. And well...it's been years, I doubt I'll be able to find the reactions from that time. Imo, most readers don't care much about pairings, they just wanted to read about power-ups and abilities and the basic Naruto Vs Sasuke. Though there are some backhanded jokes about how gay Naruto is for Sasuke.

2. Hah. It's going to be very anti-climatic but it was when Naruto and Sakura were eating in Ichiraku Ramen. Naruto just used Rasenshuriken against Kakuzu and he busted his arm. Sakura was healing his arm and her attention was focused on Naruto. I used to be a NaruSaku shipper so I thought "Oh hey! This is the moment that Naruto would have a candid romantic moment!" But nope. He talked about Sasuke. And I was already getting suspicious about Sasuke's feelings towards Naruto ya know? And the whole "SASUKE IS MIINEEEEEE" in Orochimaru's lair. It was that moment I thought "you only have Sasuke in your head don't you, Naruto?" and started shipping SNS.

3. Hooo boy was I surprised when it was suddenly revealed that they had the basic heteronormative, boring marriage with bunch of clones of themselves. Everyone thought that it was almost like a bad fanfiction come true and some thought that it was fake. It was a pandemonium lolololol. I also thought that it was too lame to be true and lo and behold, when it came true I was floored. And then whenever Kishimoto threw new material, I got insanely pissed off because S*arada and B*ruto becoming pairing material is ok because they are a girl and a boy, and then they paralleled with Naruto and Sasuke which are only FRIENDS because they are both men. ARGH. Open ending was what Kishimoto planned from the very beginning but wrote a sequel to earn more money.

In that aspect, I made peace with it because of the whole anime/manga industry. I learned that, as a mangaka, you don't earn a lot of money with selling books, but rather with merchandise and profiting with sales right. And that guy have a family to raise, have two kids (which is hilarious about how B*ruto movie is his self-insert story), he needs a steady income. Also, I read reports about how anime studios are so poor and animators don't receive a decent income not to mention they are overstaffed and tired, and B*ruto is a good money cow for them to earn money so they can invest later on other anime they have more passion about it. So even though I hate this story with a strength of thousands suns, they are putting meal on people's tables and making them pay rents. I'm ok.

4. Lemme roll my eyes because in the Last movie they said that Hinata is related to Kaguya and so is the Uzumaki and Uchiha clan so they are all related woo hoo. But in the aspect of brothers because reincarnations bla bla bla, didn't Naruto himself said that he's no longer that brother, he's himself? Hmm...I gotta re-read it. One day. Maybe. lol. But I'm sure that he said "Sasuke is not my brother but I'm sure we'll understand well as friends" so there. Honestly, there are a lot of interviews out there and a lot of them are fake, so I'd always take the interviews with a grain of salt lololol. I do know from artbooks that Kishimoto wanted to create Sasuke as a rival-esque character and that was it. As he was developing Sasuke and Naruto's relationship, since he liked the whole yin-yang concept, whenever he wrote Naruto's story, Sasuke's was developed at the same time as his shadow.

5. I can tell from Naruto Forums (I used to participate back in that day) MOST of the non-shippers thought it was gay as hell, but you know...it was a relic of that time. While they thought it was gay, they didn't put too much thought about you know? Because it was shounen, and we knew that it was a joke that it couldn't be taken seriously. Of course, in the SNS fandom, we did make more analysis and there were a lot of instance when Naruto and Sasuke's sexuality was questioned. Some other non-shippers also thought that Naruto was totes gay for Sasuke (including a IRL friend).

Imo, Naruto is definitely bisexual in my view. Sasuke I think he's asexual or gay. He's attracted to Naruto, but mostly because of his connection to him, not because of his physical attributes, so yeah...asexual. Or Pansexual. Sasuke is more complicated lmao. Imo, Naruto could be pansexual too, come to think about it. Yeah, I guess both being pansexual can be valid.

6. He developed Naruto and Sasuke being soulmates from the very beginning, that was proven in his comments in artbooks and in the manga. He probably created with the intention of making it purely platonic, going beyond physical ties. Then he shot himself on the foot by drawing Naruto thinking about Sasuke on bed, talking about how Sasuke is cool, meanwhile Sasuke waxing poetic about how Naruto saved him. What gives? Lol. Yeah, I think he got too enamored writing their relationship that he didn't have time to write romantic ones. What I noticed that Sakura's popularity never was really high, so I could see some editors putting their fingers all over it and making her less relevant. Also, Kishimoto didn't know how to handle her, so when she got her time to shine was the whole fake confession disaster. Coupled with Kishimoto sexism and, in his words (Kurenai's flashback), women are useful to spout more babies, women was never really relevant in his story, unfortunately. Even Kaguya who was technically the big bad boss, was never really fleshed out in comparison to Madara. So the null het romantic moments it's not because he wanted to elevate SNS moments, it's more about how he's incompetent about it. It's either Hinata slowly elevating to a relevant status because forced interaction (Pain's sacrifice and Neji's death) or Sakura being obligated to be pining over Sasuke because she's a girl. It's even more painful to see that, if we ignore B*ruto, both girls are shown to be just talking with their kids and dusting shelves, basically being housewives, even though thorough the story (especially Sakura) it was implied that both of them have much more potential than being their husband accessories.

7. It was a splotch of snot. I can confirm myself lol. Whenever the chapter is out and fans would scan it to scanlate it, the editor usually would amp up contrast to max. So usually the lines get much more thicker than usual, when you read the official release which gets straight from the source, you can notice how the lines are more delicate.

Oh lol...but then we also have a lot of controversy about translating style. THAT one is a whole new can of worms to open.

Man I had fun answering your questions! Please send more :P

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macgyverseries · 3 years

Text

rebutting and debunking frequently used arguments against macriley

I made this 10-page google doc rant a while ago, but I never ended up posting it. Today, however, I woke up and chose violence. So here it is: my thoughts on frequently used arguments against macriley.

I took some quotes and arguments that people put online (reddit, tumblr..), and I debunked them all :p I feel like I always see the same arguments all the time, and I’m honestly getting a little tired of hearing them. I’m here to settle this once and for all.

and yes, i did manage to cut down the google doc by 3 pages :D (but it's still long af so rip my brain)

1.”Mac and Riley are siblings because Jack is their father”

I can (mostly) get behind the argument that Mac and Riley shouldn’t be in a romantic relationship because of their super strong friendship. Some people really value that sole platonicness, and I get that.

But the argument that I can’t get behind is that: Mac and Riley are siblings because Jack is their father figure”

If you google the definition of “father,” the first result that comes up is: “a man in relation to his children.”

Now, Jack was definitely the father figure to Riley, and I would consider her his child. He raised her. He helped shape her ideals and upbringing.

Mac only met Jack when he left MIT. So it was pretty much after Mac was raised (by Bozer’s parents haha), that Jack really came into his life. Mac already became his own person. (also, I always saw Mac and Jack as more of a bromance)

So because Riley and Mac met Jack at different periods of their lives, and they were raised differently, I wouldn’t say that they were siblings who were raised by the same father.

2. “The show writers left the impression that there was a huge age gap between them”

I understand this a little. I do think Riley was introduced as pretty young and idk naive? Because she was literally in highschool, and then she went to prison, and then she got released into the wild. Personally, when I started watching the show, I googled the whole cast. So I started the show knowing that they were the same age.

And also, the more I got to know Riley, the more that I thought that Riley was more mature and had an old soul herself. I think it was because she was just a dynamic and round character, who is well-developed.

But, I get first impressions. I feel like once you get stuck on an impression, it’s hard to go away from that.

Also, Jack would’ve totally shipped macriley, and you can’t change my mind.

3. "Riley isn't ready for a relationship"

I honestly think that this argument should be more geared towards Mac. He needs to figure himself out and go to therapy ffs. However, this person targeted Riley (the literal queen), so I shall defend her:

I understand wanting Riley to take some time off, and figure herself out before going straight into another relationship with someone. But here’s the thing. Throughout the first few seasons Riley’s character was very well established, and she didn’t have any partners during that time. She has proven that she is a strong, well-rounded, independent woman (with or without a partner). So i think it is valid to say that she isn’t just some girl who only has boy toys. She is much more than that.

My next point is that Riley has made it clear that she wants a lasting relationship with someone who will support her. When talking with Mac in 4.04, we see her express her interest in a stable, healthy relationship. It’s not wrong to go out and look for that potential partner. This applies to everyone (not just fictional characters): It’s going to take a few relationships and self-discovery, to find a good relationship, and people shouldn’t be shamed for searching for that.

Riley has only ever had two major boyfriends that I remember. First was Billy; she took that relationship very seriously. She really did seem happy with him. It was a shame that he cheated on her. Second was Aubrey. She also took that relationship very seriously. She had been living with him for six months (and they even had the cutest date nights!) So I wouldn't say that Riley only has boy toys. She has meaningful relationships.

Lastly, I think this was written when season four started airing, but it’s been over a year (and a pandemic) since Riley has dated. I think enough time has passed.

*4. I had to split this one up because, oh boy, there is a lot to unpack here.

4a. “If that was the direction they’d chosen to take with that relationship from square one… My issue with it is that Mac and Riley were presented to us as friends/ found siblings for three years. There were NO romantic vibes to speak of between them..”

I actually felt the same way about macriley. The thought of them being together in season one, made me want to throw up. I don’t think the writers intended on having macriley, and I was perfectly fine with that.

I know that people look for different things when they ship. Some really like having instant gratification with the spicy, hot, sexy parts of a relationship, like macdesi (which is why I was fine with the idea of shipping macdesi in the past).

I always wanted to see macriley do more: have hot, flirtatious banters/interactions. it can be hard to ship people who seem to be missing that part of the love equation. So i agree. It's definitely strange. And I understand if you genuinely have a hard time seeing the romantic potential of macriley, when the writers have only dragged out and shown us the platonic potential of them.

Also, the reason why it is difficult to see macriley as romantic, was because they ALWAYS PRIORITIZED AND WERE DRIVEN on their friendship. A partner should be friends first, and then makeout buddies second.

But just because people start off as friends, doesn’t mean that they still don’t have that potential to be lovers. Because guess what?! Feelings change. It’s now canon that Riley has feelings for Mac, and Mac always had feelings for Riley (but never acted on it).

I'm sorry, but you like a boomer when you say “bAcK iN mY dAy, tHeY dIdN’t HaVe fEeLiNgS fOr EaCh oThEr.” like okaAAAyyYYyYY????? We are not “back in your day” anymore. We are in the present. We are in today. And today, macriley is real :)

4b. “There’s the incredibly tired trope where long-term coworkers suddenly catch feelings for each other out of nowhere”

Personally, I will never get tired of the friends to lovers trope. I think the fact that Mac and Riley had such a strong friendship and foundation is what makes them perfect. Again, I know that some people just like instant gratification, but I love when a couple can take their time to have depth, emotion, and realness in their relationship.

Obviously I am biased because I have so much love for this trope, it's my favorite trope, but I don't see why you would use the “it’s overused” as reasoning to hate a ship. Just because a trope is used a lot, doesn’t mean it is bad (that’s probably why it is so good lmao). I can understand getting tired of it, and growing a dislike towards a trope. For example, I have grown an extreme dislike towards the love triangle.

A bit of a tangent: But the difference between overusing love triangles and overusing friends to lovers, is that love triangles aren’t just commonly used tropes. They are cliches. They cause unwanted drama and unnecessary hurt to one character. Whereas friends to lovers doesn’t involve as much drama and pain for a character. It is more of just angst between two people. And we know that they will get together eventually with a happy ending. So it was never really problematic.

And even then, the great thing about overusing or utilizing tropes, is that they can act as a guide. It allows the show writers and cast to make it personal, make it their own, adding their own special flair to it

I just don’t see the “this trope is used a lot” as a valid reasoning for disliking a ship .It just seems like this commenter doesn’t like the friends to lovers trope for the sake of not liking it.

I could be very wrong in my assumption of this person’s thoughts on friends to lovers, maybe there is a deeper reasoning as to why they don’t like it, but the tone that i interpreted when i read this section, was that they don’t have a real reason to dislike it, it’s more of just because.

4c.“then there's the fact that Riley had a mostly single Mac in her life for 3-4 years and she never even considered him romantically until he was with someone else”

First: Riley didn’t CHOOSE to fall in love. You may recall that “emotions aren’t a science. You can’t control them.”

Second: Mac was broken up with Desi when she caught feelings for him. Plus, the moment Riley saw that Mac and Desi were getting happy together, she moved out and gave them space. She sacrificed her own feelings for his happiness, despite the fact that her heart was breaking.

4d. “and finally, Mac not only still doesn't seem to even have Riley on his radar in that way but he literally told another woman that he loves her just last week. Neither of them look particularly good here if they get together now.”

I'm assuming that this was written when 4.12 first aired. I'm also assuming that this comment was more directed towards the idea of Mac and Riley getting together immediately at the end of the season, rather than later down the road. I always saw of macriley as more of endgame material. That i would see them get together sometime in the future. So I agree. Macriley getting together during that time period, would be too rushed and unsatisfying.

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So those were most of the supposed arguments that I saw for people who were against macriley, but I also wanted to provide some really good examples of people who were very respectable, and actually had valid reasoning for disliking them.

1. they just don’t like shipping in general

Ships can be annoying af. Seeing people ONLY focus on the ships is sometimes tiring. I, myself, even feel a little guilty making this post, because I need to chill and mind my own business lmaooo. I really should let people do whatever they want to do with their lives, and not get caught up in the ships, but here I am :p

Anyways, I know that there is a lot of unnecessary drama that comes with shipping, and it's tiring to see people constantly go on and on about romance, when there are other perfect things about the show.

2. No matter how hard they try, they just feel it.

This is literally so dumb (and a little hypocritical/self-contradictory), but if you have a gut feeling, and you just can’t get yourself to ship it, I get it. If you truly and genuinely believe that they are best platonic friends, I can't change your opinion. And I have respect for you (if you say it in a kind manner).

Here is a nice example of a person who expressed their opinion in a nice way, with no BS.

So the moral of the story: I can't control your deepest thoughts. I can't control your gut feelings. And that’s okay. But the moment that you start backing up your thoughts and insights with BS reasoning, is the moment that I lose respect for you.

#macriley #macgyver #sorry that was so freaking long

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