#To be clear I do NOT think Sam has Johns anger issues i think Dean does | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

norahastuff · 1 year

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There’s a lot to like about The Winchesters, but I think one of the reasons it hits so hard for me is that it solves my biggest problem with the finale. Personally, I don’t have a problem with tragic endings. The season 5 finale of Spn has a tragic ending, and I think it’s a wonderful feat of storytelling. Aside from the fact that 15x20 tried to pretend it wasn’t tragic and tried to make it seem like Sam and Dean standing alone on a bridge in Heaven was a happy ending, what I hated most about the finale was they had to flatten Dean into a two-dimensional caricature of himself to do it. Aside from maybe the revelation that Dean stood outside Sam’s apartment at Stanford for hours trying to psych himself up to go in because he was nervous Sam would turn him away, there was no moment in the episode that Dean felt like the complex, nuanced character we had come to know and love over the past 15 seasons. He had no desires or characterisation beyond pie, car and Sammy. There was no sign of all the growth we’ve seen from him, no hint of his own needs, wants or sense of self. I mean, he wasn’t even allowed to interact with his own heaven before Sam showed up. Even after his death, he was never allowed to have anything that was just his.

Look, I’ve said all this a hundred times before – if you look at my 15x20 tag, it’s basically just this sentiment repeated over and over again – so why am I saying it again now? Well, because The Winchesters is fixing that. The mission Dean is on is all his. It’s not about Sam, or pie or whatever surface level bullshit that finale tried to boil Dean down to. He’s going back to the past, he’s meddling in something insane because he sees value in it, and in the process going on a journey to understand himself better. His narration makes it pretty clear that through this quest he’s learning to contextualise his own life and feelings better. The past presents the future, after all (full disclosure, that’s an Ugly Betty episode title that I just really loved and use far too often in casual conversation), and one of the biggest hang ups in Dean’s life was that he was given this mythologised version of events and expected to believe them. Mary was this perfect saintly mother who sat at home baking cookies all day before she was brutally, and through no fault of her own, ripped away from them. John was the perfect mild-mannered husband and father who only slid into anger and obsession after he lost his perfect wife.

Eventually Dean realises that none of that is true. Mary couldn’t cook. She was a hunter. She was involved in the circumstances that brought about her own death. She was a complicated person, and in the end he got the chance to see that knowing the real her, flaws and all, was infinitely superior to believing the white-washed fairytale about the perfect martyr that John created after she died. There’s also the fact that John was never the perfect husband or father, even before Mary’s death. We get maybe one reference to that in Spn, how in Dean’s heaven in season 5 he remembers John and Mary fighting and John moving out for a few days, but not much else. The focus is very much on how John turned into a neglectful parent and an angry man after Mary’s death. But The Winchesters is working hard to dispel that lie. John always had this anger in him. Mary even calls him out multiple times on how he’s using her and their relationship as an excuse to avoid his issues. She straight up uses those words. There are also references to how raising your kids to be soldiers and being their drill sergeant rather than their parent is one of the worst things a parent can do to their child.

Anyway, as interesting as it is to see all these things addressed in the Spn universe, what’s so damn satisfying is seeing Dean realise it. Dean’s on a mission to learn more about his past. To understand that our parents and where we come from shapes and moulds the people we become, but it doesn’t have to define us forever if we don’t let it. By accepting his past and finding out the truth about who his parents truly were, he can accept himself and move forward, free of whatever baggage that had been dragging him down for so much of his life.

And the greatest part about all of this, is that Dean’s the one driving this story. It’s not God, or his father or even his duty to take care of Sam which dictated so much of his life and his choices before. This is about Dean’s choices and who he is as a person and what he wants. It’s funny because as little as we saw John Winchester in season 1 of Spn, he was very much the spectre hanging over the story, and the search to find him is what drove much of the plot throughout the season. Much of what his sons were doing was in reaction to him. And now in The Winchesters, Dean himself is the spectre that’s been hanging over the season. He’s the one making the big moves and steering the action. He’s the one everyone, friend and foe alike, is looking for. He’s the one who gave John the note and put this whole thing into motion. After the ending of Spn took away so much of his agency and everything that makes Dean Dean, he’s finally getting it back and then some.

I’m excited to see how the season’s going to end, but I’ll forever be happy that this show gave us Dean being his own person again. He’s the one picking the music this time.

#the winchesters #spnwin #my spn thoughts

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scoobydoodean · 9 months

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Anon I already addressed a lot of your message, but I also wanted to respond to the 2.02 part of your message more specifically. Tbh I didn't talk about this very specifically in my rewatch because I kind of feel like Sam projecting in 2.02 is a subject that has been beaten to death by fandom and I didn't really want to add to it if I'm being quite honest—especially because it quickly leads to samcrit hours for a lot of people in a way that I'm not really into believe it or not. But I wanted to respond specifically to what you wrote here:

Yes, Sam is expressing how he feels in season 2, but he isn't lashing out. He wants to express his grief to his brother, who he knows is also expressing grief. He doesn't realize his brother is expressing it in a different way than him, and interprets that as not expressing it at all. But he isn't lashing out and he isn't being malicious. Sam is trying to get Dean to talk to him, because that is how Sam needs to process his grief. He isn't displacing his aggression onto someone else. He's desperate for a connection. He's more begging than projecting at some point. And when it bubbles over, he admits how he is feeling to Dean based on an earlier conversation where Dean criticized Sam for how he was reacting to their father's death when Sam and John fought all of the time. Dean is angry because that is how Dean deals with grief, and in that conversation, he took it out on Sam. In the season 2 scene, Sam is admitting that yes, he and his dad always fought, and he feels terrible about it and is drowning in the too little too late. But he is desperate for his brother to let him in because that is the only connection he has left and Dean shutting down makes him afraid to lose that too. But he isn't lashing out or projecting. He is trying to communicate his needs but doing it less than stellarly.

First (clarification for any other readers) I've already clarified that I myself don't see Sam projecting as malicious.

Second, I think you reference a tag I used on my original post: projecting displaced aggression and scapegoating in spn. That is a tag for my tagging system. It's a blanket tag that I use when at least one of the words in the string applies to a situation, but not all have to apply.

Third, let's be clear about the sequence of events in 2.02:

Sam comes outside and asks if Dean is okay or if he needs anything.

Dean says he does not need anything, and calmly but plainly asks Sam to stop asking, because Sam has been asking Dean all week and Sam has not taken a hint.

Sam does not listen. Instead, he pushes forward, pointing out that Dean hasn't mentioned John all week.

Dean responds with a sarcastic remark that boils down to, "What the fuck do you want my grief to look like? What would you consider palatable?"

Sam explodes, yelling at Dean for patronizing him, accusing Dean of grieving wrong, and telling Dean how he should be grieving.

Dean says the anger and vengeance Sam wants from him is useless, and that the only thing he can do right now is work on the car.

As the episode continues:

Sam talks about wanting to hunt in John's memory twice after Dean wonders 1) why Sam wanted to go on a random hunt 2) Why Sam tells the carnival owner that he doesn't want normal. Dean pretends he has no thoughts about this.

Sam brings up a fond memory of John, and Dean says he remembers. 5 seconds later, Sam accuses Dean of "getting maudlin on him", and then he accuses Dean of playing the "strong and silent type"

Dean asks him firmly to leave him alone, and plainly says Sam is acting entitled to determine how Dean grieves.

Sam begins yelling at Dean again for not grieving right.

Dean shouts back at Sam that he is fine and tells Sam to stop dumping his issues on Dean.

Sam asks what Dean means.

Dean says Sam is having trouble dealing with John's death because of how things ended between the two of them and says Sam is projecting his inability to deal with John's death onto Dean.

At the end of the episode, Sam admits that Dean was right about what he was doing, but also says he knows Dean isn't actually okay.

That is the sequence of events.

He doesn't realize his brother is expressing it in a different way than him, and interprets that as not expressing it at all.

I'm not the thought police, but neither is Sam, and Sam quite literally shouts at Dean multiple times in 2.02 for not grieving in a way that Sam finds relatable. He specifically demands to know why Dean isn't angry, and why Dean doesn't want revenge, and why Dean's grieving process involves fixing his broken car instead of doing exactly what Sam has been doing—searching for leads on the demon. Sam is angry and is frustrated by a lack of leads, and he is displacing that frustration onto Dean and doing exactly what you claim Dean did to him later in the episode, except when Dean does it, it is after being harassed repeatedly and criticized for how he grieves and having his clearly stated boundaries trampled on by his brother for over a week.

Adults don't have to understand the quirks of other people's grief, but they should be expected to accept that their own feelings are not universal, and not make judgements. We don't get to dictate how other people feel and process things. I lost my grandfather this year, and if someone had come up to me at his funeral and criticized me for not appearing to grieve in a way they found relatable (which would invariably and inescapably carry an implication that I didn't care about my own grandfather) I would have put them on the ground, and they would have deserved it. It's fine that Sam doesn't understand how Dean grieves. His response to that lack of understanding, which is to deliberately and flagrantly ignore Dean's very calmly and plainly stated boundaries, and criticize how Dean deals with his feelings because Sam doesn't understand him, is not fine.

Note: Sam's behavior here is also not dissimilar from how he criticized Dean in 1.03 for not searching hard enough for John (in Sam's opinion—a guy who had found exactly 0 leads for them up to that point) with a tacked on thinly-veiled accusation that Dean did not care, followed by denials of his obvious meaning when Dean reacted. That also was not okay, and it's part of the pattern we see.

Sam is trying to get Dean to talk to him, because that is how Sam needs to process his grief.

You say Sam just wants to express his own grief to Dean, but that is not what Sam does? Sam talks exclusively about how Dean is processing his own grief: DEAN hasn't brought up dad once. DEAN should want revenge. DEAN should be mad. DEAN needs to stop being so dysfunctional and cold and "deal with" John's death—not Sam. If Sam wanted to talk about how Sam was grieving... he could simply talk about how he is grieving. However, quite crucially, he should also be willing to have someone else act as his active listener (ex: Bobby). Dean and Sam's methods of coping clearly do not mesh, and Sam should be willing to respect that. But when Dean does ask Sam quite plainly, over and over, to stop pestering him, Sam does not listen. He wants to talk about how Dean is grieving. Whether Dean is ready is not relevant—only whether Sam is ready for Dean to be ready. Dean is expected to grieve on Sam's timeline, in a way that looks familiar and relatable. Sam fixates on getting Dean to open up, because Sam is worried about him yeah—but also because Sam thinks he needs Dean—specifically—to spill his guts in order to process his own grief and stop worrying about Dean, and that is dysfunctional, and Sam is so focused on fulfilling that dysfunctional need that he is willing to flagrantly trample all over Dean's own grieving process and his clearly defined boundaries in order to get what he wants.

Sam's methods of coping and how they effect Dean in 2.02 are maladaptive, and they make Dean responsible for "fixing" Sam in a way that is not fair, while Dean is also grieving their dead father. Sam is essentially criticizing Dean for not offering up his raw grief as an artistically arranged meal for Sam's consumption, and Sam does not even realize it until Dean, tired of having his clearly stated boundaries trampled on over and over by Sam's repeated pestering and demands and criticisms, calls Sam out on what he is doing. And Dean is right about it, and after Sam reflects on it, he admits that Dean is right and reduces his harassment and policing of Dean's feelings by about 75%.

#projecting displaced aggression and scapegoating in spn #2.02 #mail #season 2 #spn revisionisms #youre such a control freak #john #the flannel business #we probably have a lot more in common than just about anyone #i dont deserve what he put on me #bad therapist sam

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angelsdean · 1 year

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Dean might been raised to be like john and copied everything that he does (leather jacket, hunting, music, etc) but at his core, sam is much more similar to john and thats the reason they clashed so much.

Theres a difference here - we litteraly spent 15 years watching dean growing up to be the person he needed to be not the person his father wanted him to be.

yea i do think sam's inherent temperament is more like john-- quick to anger, one track mind, centers himself and his emotions over others, deflects blame for his own actions + their consequences.

while dean's inherent temperament is more like mary (incorporating some of spnwin mary's traits into this) --feisty and strong willed but also caring and nurturing (mary was good at bonding w/ kids in spnwin like dean and also i'd say she was a good mom w/ her young children just was distant when she came back due to her own grief and the strangeness of their situation) both are avoidant about somethings, tends to keep things in more, need to internally process (tho i will say and have said, dean CAN and DOES talk abt his feelings. just. not to sam. and sam is just as avoidant, usually deflecting and asking others to talk to him instead of sharing his own feelings)

in the early seasons (and what we can infer about their childhood and teen years based on what they've said) it's very clear that dean played the role of mediator between the two hotheaded ones in the family who where always clashing, sam and john. dean filled the role mary left. he has to be a mother and pseudo partner (i do not mean that sexually obvs) but in the sense of the role of an equal adult figure. john treated dean as his co-parent basically. he gave young dean adult expectations and responsibilities. dean may have fought back and argued sometimes, but after a while he learned it was better to just stay quiet or side with john. because Not taking john's side led to dean being sent away, which left sam vulnerable, and dean's whole purpose that john ingrained in him was to protect and look after sam. he can't do that if he's thrown out of the house as punishment for dissenting, so he falls in line. this obvs from sam's perspective makes it seem like dean and john are a united front against sam, that sam is the outsider. he's not wrong for feeling what he feels, but sam, from his limited perspective, does not see the whole picture. he doesn't learn about john sending dean away as punishment until they are adults. he was unaware of a lot going on around him, the way a lot of kids are unaware of their parents issues when they're young.

anyway, we see dean evolve and change for 15 years, yes! he starts off as the mediator between sam and john. he just wants to keep the peace and unite his family again. for dean up until this point, family is everything. and in s1 family is very limited to literally just the three of them. john never let them form close bonds with other people outside of them. the most they have are bobby and pastor jim, and even then, in s1 they're not very close to either, and have been estranged from bobby for some time. then we see dean break away from that role of mediator when john is out of the picture. he also starts to question a lot of john's choices (not that i don't think he was questioning them before, it's always been a complicated dynamic), but after john tells dean he might have to kill sam, that sends a jolt to his system and he goes, no! No, i'm not going to kill my brother / pseudo-child just cos my father-god says. He gets a bit angry. He starts to actually let himself feel that anger toward john that he's kept at bay for so long, now that john's gone. Then there's hell and 40 yrs of unimaginable trauma. Thirty years of torture and 10 years of torturing. Dean comes back angrier, yes. His anger is a symptom and response to his trauma. hes's never been taught good coping mechanisms and expressing emotions wasn't exactly condoned or safe in john's household, so a lot of dean's pain and grief and shame and remorse for what he did and what he endured gets filtered through anger. Unlike sam, dean never gets a proper arc to confront and deal with his hell trauma. he doesn't have an angel come and take on the brunt of that trauma. he has to bury it all down and keep moving forward to the next conflict, the next big bad, the next apocalypse.

And even still, even after all that, and more years of trauma and loss, dean still holds on to his humanity and love and desire to help people and his goodness. (And i'm not saying sam doesn't have these qualities either. sam, esp early seasons sam, may share more inherent qualities with john but he also has qualities from mary and he also is his own person, who is also good at his core) But yea, dean could've been way worse after everything he endured, and we do see him struggle and stumble, but ultimately he breaks free of a lot of john's teachings and behaviors and he becomes more than just that blunt little instrument.

#long post #sorry im in my essays era #dean studies #sam studies #family dynamics #replies

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sunflowerdigs · 1 year

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Please I need the SuccNatural takes

Happy to oblige. I saw the discussion going on. I had written a response but kept it as a draft.

Briefly, the demon that killed Sam and Dean's mother, Mary, came after the family because he wanted Sam. John moved Sam and Dean around a lot in order to keep Sam safe. So, Dean ended up mostly being a tool John used (he actually gets called "daddy's little blunt instrument"), either for hunting or for taking care of Sam when John was away,(he would frequently leave them alone for weeks at a time - sometimes Dean would have to steal food because they'd run out of money). It was drilled into Dean that his only worth as a person was how well he protected Sam.

Roman has Dean's desire to please and his romantic side. Like Roman, Dean was in denial about how shitty his father was for a long time. In addition, Sam and John never got along because they were too alike, and I get a similar vibe from Kendall and Logan - both of them have a leadership style that is overbearing and dictatorial in nature. Their clashes are always huge and end up having a ripple effect on Shiv and Roman, much like Sam's fights with John would end up affecting Dean. Both Dean and Roman are frequently befuddled by the way that Kendall and Sam are able to act in ways that not only alienate them from their fathers but from their entire families; that confusion tends to express itself in explosive anger (for their parts, both Sam and Kendall tend to take their siblings' support for granted even when they've made life harder for them by starting massive fights with their fathers and inevitably demanding they take sides). Yet, no matter how much they fight their fathers, Sam and Kendall remain the golden children. Both Roman and Dean try to gain that kind of approval through an unswerving loyalty to not only their fathers but their fathers' world views (the latter of which is incredibly unhealthy for both of them), but it doesn't really work. In a strange way, John both encouraged Dean's more maternal side (Dean actually says he had to be both mother and father to Sam) but also encouraged a kind of toxic masculinity that was inherently at odds with it. And Logan does something similar with Roman when he both uses his "soft skills" to make business deals but then consistently degrades that particular skill set as not masculine. Both Dean and Roman, as part of their arcs, have to find ways to become comfortable with parts of themselves that they've suppressed in order to live in their fathers' worlds.

In the first few seasons, Dean comes off as very authoritarian, but gradually it becomes clear that this is Dean's "game face", which he puts on for Sam's benefit. It's a relic from childhood, how Dean has always dealt with with being the one in charge in scary situations. Interestingly (so, so interestingly), we see something similar from Roman when Kendall is at the meth house. Suddenly, Kendall gets no say in anything - Roman is coming to get him and that's final. Roman has never had the kind of responsibility in his life that Dean has had, which is why we don't see that persona more often from him, I think.

Both Roman and Dean rely a lot on natural ability and charm; they act from the heart and achieve the most when they trust gut feelings. Sam and Kendall are both more methodical and reliant on book-learning. Both Sam and Kendall also have a tendency to look down on people who don't think or problem solve in the same ways that they do, which both Dean and Roman take issue with. Both Dean and Roman struggle with the heartlessness neccessary to do their jobs correctly because they both naturally enjoy people and connecting with others - which both their fathers and their brothers and everyone else in their industry see as odd. But both Roman and Dean also have the potential to be absolutely ruthlessly cruel, especially when they feel alienated from their siblings.

Finally, Dean is a womanizer and, tbh, while he does long for a partner, he genuinely enjoys his random sexual encounters a lot. He's a very physical person, very tactile. Roman...is interesting in this regard. For someone who can't fuck women, he does pretty well. And Roman is big on smell and taste - ironically, I think he's the character you see eating most, even if it's always fruit. Different flavors and textures - Dean enjoys his food, too. There's a sensuousness to both characters that I'm sure someone else can explore better than I can.

So...that's my rundown, I guess. I think Roman and Dean kind if fulfill the same role within their narratives, as do Kendall and Sam, which explains a lot of their similarities.

#succnatural #Succession #spn #it's weird because i think Dean would end up in Kendall's role and Sam in Roman's but it would be reversed #roman roy #dean winchester

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thegeminisage · 3 years

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john abused both dean AND sam, just differently. in this essay i will

prove that the abuse manifested in different ways for each of them because that’s how abuse works in real life. this is based on the fact that john saw dean as mary’s surrogate but once he found out about the deal and sam having demon blood he blamed sam for her death. ok let’s fucking go

dean as mary’s surrogate

there are loads of parallels made between dean and mary in early season spn and late season spn. in season 12 dean directly calls himself sam’s mother, but even earlier than that we see him doing the cooking and child rearing. compare that to all the parallels made between sam and john (both of them losing their blonde woman significant others in a ceiling fire) and it’s clear that dean was meant to more resemble mary. it’s not a stretch to say that if we can see it as viewers this is how john saw it in his actual life. i do think john loves dean for being dean but he loves him more for being mary.

sam as the reason behind mary’s death

i think once john learned that sam had demon blood, some part of him must have always been waiting for the other shoe to drop with sam, not ever fully believing this kid was human, and maybe not even knowing if this kid was HIS. a popular theory back in the day was that YED fathered sam (something they had to actually address in season 4 to stop the speculation), and if WE speculated that hard, surely john must have too. i’m sure he loves sam as an extension of mary, and keeps and raises and protects him BECAUSE he’s mary’s, but similarly (or maybe inverse) to dean, i don’t know if he ever fully gave himself permission to love sam for being sam. in fact, i imagine john harbors a lot of self-loathing for failing to save mary. if we directly parallel john and sam, that means by some extent he would also hate sam.

john trusted dean with far too much, and sam with far too little

dean knew about monsters; sam didn’t. dean had memories of their mother and the night she died, and shared that trauma of watching her die with john; sam didn’t. dean knew when john was supposed to be home and who to call if he wasn’t; sam didn’t. dean was given the money and the guns and the CAR ITSELF; sam wasn’t. dean was taught to drive; SAM WASN’T.

dean was expected to do everything john was supposed to have been doing in his absence - he was to be a mother and father to sam, he was supposed to protect sam from evil, he was supposed to see to sam’s meals and homework and getting to school on time. and he was put under an EXTRAORDINARY amount of pressure not to screw this up even a little bit, despite the fact that he was only a kid. sam on the other hand was kept on a strict need-to-know basis for his entire life, right up until season 1 when they reunite at last. john didn’t trust sam with ANYTHING, and sam knew it. this contributed to his lifelong anger issues because he didn’t DO anything to warrant that kind of mistrust and probably got gaslit about it a lot of times either by john himself or dean (unknowingly, by parroting/believing the things john said). even in the pilot sam says very casually of his mother “she’s gone,” because her memory doesn’t hold the same place of reverence for him - best guess is that john didn’t talk about her much to sam because he didn’t trust sam with emotional stuff either. in s14 we learn that dean was the one who told sam stories about mary, including her terrible casserole - and their attempt at recreating it infuriated john to the point of him throwing the entire concoction in the trash.

john relied on dean for everything, and refused to rely on sam for anything

canonically dean was the one who comforted john after a bad hunt, looked after and fed his brother when john wasn’t around. dean knew how to use a shotgun; sam didn’t. dean knew who to call in an emergency; sam didn’t. dean knew about monsters; sam didn’t. this was done under the guise of “protection for sammy” but turn it around and it’s also protection FROM sammy. think of how angry john gets when he learns sam has been having psychic visions. he’s not just angry that dean didn’t report it to him, he’s angry that the demon’s plans for sam are coming to pass, and that sam is becoming less human. again, he can’t TRUST sam if sam’s not human, and it proves to john that he was right all along to keep sam in the dark as much as possible.

john gave dean too much freedom, and sam no freedom at all

“watch out for sammy.” sam was under constant supervision by either dean or john; john made sure of it. again, it’s protection FOR sam but also protection FROM him, in case he did something inhuman or evil. dean on the other hand was left alone without any supervision at all for days or even weeks at a time - he resorts to stealing bread and peanut butter and (according to jackles) turning tricks for money. he had to make it work and got up to whatever the fuck he wanted when john wasn’t looking. sam had to LITERALLY run away from home before he got the simple pleasure of eating pizza and having a dog by himself, independently. dean was given too much independence and freedom but sam was kept on such a short leash he had none at all.

john made dean feel unworthy, and he made sam feel unclean

when dean fails to protect sam from the shtriga in the season 1 flashbacks, he says his dad looked at him differently after. he also implies that john physically beat him when sam ran away in flagstaff. whether he meant to or not, john made it abundantly clear that his love for dean was not unconditional; it depended very much on how well dean performed the multitude of tasks john assigned him. dean grew up believing that his only worth was in what he could do for other people. he demonstrates this an an adult over and over and over, from letting his possessed family members beat him up to refusing to take care of his own needs, emotional and otherwise, and snapping at people who try to talk to him about his own feelings.

on the other hand, sam talks in season 8 about how even at a very young age he felt impure and unclean, even before he knew that he had demon blood, even before he knew that there was any such thing as monsters. kids aren’t stupid, and sam picked up on the vibes john was putting off - that john didn’t trust him, might not have loved him, and might not have considered him human or even his own child. without even knowing why, he spent his entire life feeling unclean and inhuman, not worth of being loved by his own family. even dean, who we all know loves sam unconditionally, admits in season 14 that he often took dad’s side on arguments because he had “his own stuff,” further leading to the alienation that was sam’s constant companion growing up.

AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY:

JOHN’S ABUSE PITTED SAM AND DEAN AGAINST EACH OTHER

john saved dean after their shared trauma of mary’s death. dean says in season 1 that the reason he stopped talking was that he was scared. iirc john’s journal implies he was mute for over a year, and dean in season 2 says that when he was 6 or 7 his dad took him shooting for the first time. if mary died just before dean’s fifth birthday, the timeline works out to dean talking again because john took him shooting. i believe that dean hero worships his father because after mary’s death, and dealing with the terror that something like that could come in and take his family away by killing them horribly at any time without any warning, john learning to fight back against the darkness - and teaching dean to do the same - is what gave dean his voice again. BOTH of them saw and carried the memory of mary burning on the ceiling for the rest of their lives. “watch out for sammy” and “get the thing that killed mom” were dean’s reasons to get up in the morning, because they were john’s reasons to get up in the morning. these things were LITERALLY his reasons for living. john gave dean a way to fight back against fear and gave him a cause to keep him going. abuse or not, dean never stopped being grateful for that, and he was the only other person in the whole world who understood the unique horror of what john went through that night. even all the way into season 10, he tells other people that john did right by him. it’s borderline brainwashing. part of dean’s self-worth will always be based on how good of a son he was to john.

on the other hand, knowingly or not, john did everything possible to alienate sam. he kept him on a short leash while also keeping him at arm’s distance. he didn’t trust sam with emotional things like the memory of mary, he didn’t trust sam with the truth about monsters and what they did for a living, he didn’t trust sam with his plans, he didn’t trust sam with the truth about demon blood. canon STRONGLY suggests john knew YED bled in sam’s mouth as a baby, but instead of telling sam or even dean about that, sam had to learn about it in a horrible flashback recreated by YED himself. when sam wanted to go to school, john told him no, and when he left anyway, john told him not to come back.

this is an equal but opposite kind of abuse. john totally fucked up BOTH his kids in complete inversions to each other.

which means that, no matter what john did, it caused sam and dean to fight. this isn’t an interpretation. this is straight up canon.

again, dean says in s14 that he frequently took dad’s side in arguments because he had his own stuff to deal with, and he was trying to keep the peace. dean, a victim of emotional (and implied sometimes physical) abuse himself, was not able to shield sam from all of john’s bullshit. he could stop sam from getting hit and having to see john during the worst of his drunken rages, but he couldn’t trick sam into thinking john loved him unconditionally, because john didn’t love either of his kids unconditionally.

when john acted in a way that was not befitting of a parent, sam rightfully took exception, which forced dean (who was ALSO BEING ABUSED, almost brainwashed) to jump to his defense. that led to john getting to do whatever the hell he wanted and sam and dean arguing about the effects. when sam ran away in flagstaff, DEAN was punished, leading dean to resenting sam for that incursion, even though sam was perfectly right to want to get away from an abusive household. when sam did a normal thing wanting to leave for college at age 18, he left, and dean resented him for that because that meant he was alone to bear the brunt of john’s anger.

sam repeatedly made logical, emotionally healthy choices in attempting to break the family dynamic, but because of JOHN’S BEHAVIOR, not sam’s, those choices wound up causing dean harm. JOHN HIMSELF was the ultimate wedge between sam and dean growing up and beyond.

and let’s not forget the biggest sin - john spent 22 years impressing upon dean that taking care of sammy was EVERYTHING, and then without any explanation at all, he asked dean to kill him, and then he DIED, which meant dean had to carry that weight by himself (because again, he’s been trained not to trust sam with things). like of COURSE sam got angry when he found out - that’s fucking fucked up! once again sam is being treated like a ticking time bomb for absolutely no reason - he didn’t ask to have demon blood or psychic visions or a dead mom or an abusive father. nor did dean ask to be saddled with the upbringing of an entire human at four years old who he then might have to kill. because dean will always feel gratitude towards john, and sam will always feel resentment, and because based on john’s treatment of them BOTH OF THESE FEELINGS ARE JUSTIFIED, john continues to cause fights between sam and dean long after he’s dead and gone, and that will never change.

on a final note: i’d like to bring this around to season 13.

after cas, mary, kelly, and crowley all die (or are presumed dead in mary’s case) in the season 12 finale, season 13 opens with nobody but sam and dean and jack. dean directly blames jack for these deaths. he says so multiple times. he says where jack can hear him that he knows jack is evil and impure and cannot be saved and calls jack a freak. when jack tries repeatedly to kill himself dean says to jack’s face not to bother, because WHEN jack does go bad, dean will be the one to kill him. dean does NOT see jack as castiel’s child - he sees jack as someone who brainwashed cas and kelly both and got them killed. dean does not even see jack as a human person worthy of life. from the get-go, all he wants is to put jack down. jack is born into a world shaped by pain and grief and anger, where people hate him simply for what he is and who died to get him here.

and again, sam identifies hard with jack. he justifiably protests dean’s treatment of him. jack is a kid and didn’t ask for any of this. jack is terrified of dean. sam reminds dean that john said all these things about sam that dean is saying about jack. john is still causing a rift between his sons over a decade after his death.

eventually, after jack uses his powers and brings back cas from the empty, dean pulls his head out of his ass and admits that he was wrong. he calls jack his kid more than once, and jack refers to dean as one of his dads. but the damage has already been done. jack struggles multiple times with his powers, accidentally hurting people and then wishing himself dead after. he also struggles without them; even when using his powers means using up pieces of his soul, he does it, because dean taught him that he’s only worthy of being loved and trusted if he’s “good.” even when he has NO SOUL, when jack does something bad he panics about it and seeks to undo it at any cost. that’s how deep the damage runs.

i see a lot of people remarking that in the arc of 13.01-13.05, dean became john, and i agree that he did. but dean didn’t do to jack what john did to him. dean did to jack what john did to SAM.

[spn masterpost]

#supernatural #dean winchester #sam winchester #john winchester #jack kline #liz watches spn #liz's meta #liz's spn stuff #YES YOU CAN REBLOG THIS PLS DO I WORKED HARD ON IT.#WHEW. glad i got that off my chest #this is why u can't call it the widow arc #sam revisited a WHOLE childhood of trauma here #the arc is about all of them!!!!!#backtagging to add #broken road #brcu

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luna-nigthshade-wood · 2 years

Text

Au: Where Dean lives with his ducklings, before he goes hunting with Eileen...

Dean: Alright ducklings, front and center

(Ducklings form a line)

Dean: Due to the fact, that is clear to me I cant trust any of you to be in charge, I...

Emma: Well, thanks dad, that makes us feel so love

Ben: Yeah, dad. I dont understand why you dont trust us. I mean I understand anger issues here (pointing at Claire and Emma) and stab king over there (pointing to Jesse), but I think I am old and mature enough to be in charge of the Bunker while you and Eileen are gone.

Dean: How about no? Should I remind you of the fire extinguer incident?

Ben, with a betrayed face:... You promised we would never talk about it.

Alex: Wait, why cant I be in charge? I am responsable

Dean, exasperated: Last time, you were in charge you tried to throw a party, try being the key world

Alex: Sory for not talking snitches into consideration (throwing a smirking Claire a glare)

Krissy: I feel I should be in charge Dean.

Dean: No, you cant. You tried to summon an interdimensional creature last time.

Krissy: Oh yeah, that was fun

Dean, seeing Claire raising her hand: I suppose you are going to tell me why you should be in charge, Carrie

Claire, rolling her eyes: Cute, but no. I was going to say that you are right and you should put Kaia in charge

Dean, seeing right through: Absolutely no, you only want Kaia in charge because she lets you do everything you want. (Turning to her) Sorry, Kaia

Kaia,: Fair enough

Dean, seeing Bobby John excited: Same for you B, sorry, but you bend easily for your fellow ducklings (cue Bobby John deflating but nodding)

Jack, innocently: Can I be in charge Dean? I promise I will do my best

Dean, somehow softly: Sorry Jackie boy, but you are three, how about you focuse on taking care of Sir Fluffy? (refering to Jack´s stuffed bear)

Jack, pleased: Of course Dean

Jesse: Could I? (seeing Dean´s face daring him to ask after Thee Incident TM) Yeah no I am good

Sam, who has been quiet and has a broken arm, therefore not going to the hunt: You worry so much Dean. I can take care of them just fine (cue glares to Sam)

Dean: Yeah, you are also not in charge

Sam, ready to agree with Dean: Of course I... Wait the fck do you mean I am not in charge?

Dean: I could give you a list of reasons

Sam: I am a grown adult, besides Cas is going to be here with me

Dean: Yeah, that is not ressuring and also number one on the list of why you are not to be trusted. May I remind you why your arm is broken?

(Cue flashbacks of Cas and Sam experimenting on Sam with spells from a suspicious looking book that randomly appeared in the Bunker)

Eileen, who has been watching the chaos: Face it babe, you two are not to be trusted alone. Besides, when you are with the kids alone you suddenly revert to your 12 year old self

Dean: Anyways, getting back on track, the person in charge is... (seeing Patience enter the kitchen) Patience

Patience: Wait what?

Dean, nodding: Yes you will do. Dont worry Patience I trust you besides I left a bowl of papers with suggestions

Patience, taking the bowl: And how would I know if the paper apply to the situation?

Dean, grabbing a paper: Dont worry, for example “Jack, dont eat that” aplies to anything that is not food, you also have “Claire, dont go hunting” “Emma dont do the ritual” “B, please dont dismember yourself” was originally for Bobby John but after what happened two months ago it applies to everyone. And lastly, my favorite “For the love of my sanity and my health, Sammy and Cas DONT”, which applies to anything they try to do together. Anyways we are going. See you in two days (Dean and Eileen exit the bunker)

Eileen, after Babby is already running: Do you actually thing we should have let Patience in charge?

Dean, tapping his fingers: Absolutely not, they will eat her alive. That is why I called Jody, she will be there in two hours

(At the end there were only three small fires and an arrest order, three of those things happening before Jody arrived so Dean counts it as a win)

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impostoradult · 3 years

Link

This is time that was allotted to these storylines by canon, offering an expectation of meaning and importance, offering what results in a promise—not time the fans imagined or made up, not something they feel nebulously entitled to, but time they spent on plots the canon gave to them. (Cas means something to Dean after all these years and a love confession. Bucky means something to Steve after all these years and a snap. Jaime’s project of growth and his meaningful relationship with Brienne is something worth investing in.) But instead of saying, yes, you spent all this time watching these scenes, feeling these moments, taking this in—you grew with this character, with these relationships (grew in many cases away from the set starting point)—here is your promised meaning, again and again, these properties snatch the rug away and then pretend blithely they cannot understand why “entitled fans” are so upset.

I’ve been meaning to write my version of this argument for a while now, and I suppose this article is just as good a reason as any.

My thesis, in short, is that lack of queer representation actually isn’t what is creating ~the problem~ here. What’s creating the problem is the overriding power of heteronormativity as a kind of ‘trump’ story logic that is allowed to steamroller everything else into oblivion. (And yes, there actually is a substantial difference between those two things)

Sub-thesis 1: Representation Actually Isn’t A Strong Argument for Destiel (or any particular ship/character)

Controversial, I know. The representation argument (while an extremely valid argument as applies to popular culture in general) is actually not a very good argument when it comes to why Dean should be explicitly queer and Destiel should have been consummated.

For one, there’s no reason -- exclusively from the standpoint that it is a moral imperative that queer people are represented in media -- why any particular character or set of characters should be that representation. The ethical cultural mandate to represent marginalized groups does not mandate that any one character or set of characters in any particular given story be that representation*. Yes, even if you as a member of that marginalized group happen to identify with that character. Even then, it isn’t OWED to you. (I think writers should take those trends of identification seriously, and think about what it means to marginalized groups, and act accordingly. But I don’t think it creates an OBLIGATION)

*I’d argue the primary caveat to this would be in stories where the character’s situation or arc is directly related to struggles experienced by that marginalized group (i.e., casting mostly white actors in stories where those characters are experiencing racial oppression)

For another, if representation of queer characters were primarily dictated by fandoms, 90% of queer characters in media would be white, conventionally attractive men. (That might be overstating it a bit, but fandoms have serious biases when it comes to shipping and what kind of characters they latch onto for queer interpretation, and that’s one of the reasons I’m grateful queer representation is not primarily linked to our tastes/preferences).

The representation argument is a very valid argument when examining popular culture as whole, and when looking at broader trends for example, within a genre, or a whole network. But no particular TV show is obligated to make particular characters within it queer just because representation is a moral imperative as a broader cultural issue.

Sub-Thesis 2: Heteronormativity Creates Stupid/Badly Constructed Stories

The actual problem here is how heteronormativity creates a kind of trump logic that overrides coherent storytelling.

I’m not upset about what happened on Supernatural because I think we missed out on representation. There is actually plenty of ~better~ representation elsewhere, and there will continue to be more as time goes on. The representation issue is peripheral at best when it comes to analyzing what went ‘wrong’ with Supernatural.

The key issue here is that stories need to make sense, not just in terms of plot (although that matters), but in terms of character growth, emotional arcs, etc. The ending of Supernatural is bad because it treated massive pieces of character growth and one of the most significant emotional arcs of the whole show as if it was ultimately inconsequential -- which is bad storytelling and doesn’t make sense.

And YES, we are ‘owed’ stories that make sense. It’s not entitled to want a story to be coherent, because coherence is what makes a story a story, and not just a series of random meaninglessly assembled plot points/fictional anecdotes.

The problem is, Hollywood writers keep writing themselves into situations where emotional coherence basically requires an explicitly queer dynamic (or at least a strongly subtextual one), and then just being like...but these characters aren’t queer so we can’t do that. Instead, let’s end Steve’s arc by sending him back in time to live a heterosexual life with Peggy, disregarding the HUGELY significant plot points related to Steve/Bucky which grounded multiple entire movies within the MCU (Winter Solider, Civil War). Let’s end Sherlock by inventing a random, long-lost Holmes sister never remotely hinted at or foreshadowed and make that incomprehensible plot point the finale, when the entire series has been grounded in John and Sherlock’s relationship.

Let’s make it canonically clear Cas’s love for Dean is the one single act of pure free will in a world with a malevolent God trying to manipulate everyone’s lives for his own amusement, and that Cas’s love for Dean is the only thing keeping the primary story-universe of Supernatural intact, because every other version of Sam and Dean in every other universe kill each other as God intended. Let’s make it clear that Cas’s betrayal of heaven due to his love for Dean is literally propping up their entire universe, but then end the story by pretending like it’s not that important after all. Castiel who?

And it’s just like...THAT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE! It doesn’t make fucking sense. It’s bad writing. So why would you do it? (I mean, I being a bit facetious here. I know exactly why. Because the precious feelings of homophobes will be hurt, and companies don’t want to lose out on their money)

It’s not entitled to want a story to make sense. It’s not entitled to want major plot points and character arcs and emotional dynamics to have resolutions that follow from what came before in the story.

And I’m sorry, but you are a ridiculous person if you watched Dean grieve Castiel’s ostensible deaths in s7 and s13 (both times becoming nearly catatonic, nihilistic, more self-destructive than usual, and borderline suicidal over losing Cas) and try to argue to me that his shrug-it-off attitude towards Cas’s death/loss in the finale makes any goddamn sense at all.

It is utterly inconsistent with everything that has happened before in Supernatural regarding Dean and Castiel’s relationship. It’s incomprehensibly incoherent and just stupid. (And that is just the absolute tip of the incoherence iceberg because to fully explain why the ending of Supernatural re: Destiel doesn’t make sense we’d have to review over 300 episode’s worth of content, and there isn’t time for that)

I’m just so sick and so tired of being asked to pretend to be stupid because you know, man, heterosexuality. They’re not gay!!1!

The exhaustion I feel, as a queer viewer, in fact is not borne out of lack of representation. The representation issue is very much on an upward trajectory and I’m not worried about the future of TV not being queer enough. I’m not.

The exhaustion and frustration and anger I feel as a queer viewer is borne of having to repeatedly watch stupid endings to good stories because the story can only make sense if you make it queer (you cowards). I’m tired of being asked to develop dumb amnesia disease in order to consume endings to stories that had to blow everything up at the end to (re)enforce a heterosexuality that can only stand on a foundation of utter incoherence and contradiction to monumental things that came before it.

I am JUST SO TIRED of being asked to sacrifice my intelligence, my basic logic and critical thinking skills, and my ability to remember basic narrative beats at the alter of almighty Heterosexuality, supreme ruler of all cultural output and destroyer of good queer things.

Heterosexuality isn’t owed my stupidity, and I’m not entitled for wanting stories to make sense. YOU are entitled for demanding my stupidity when you wrote that dumb shit and expected me to act like it wasn’t dumb simply because it was heterosexual.

No, the heterosexuality is exactly the reason it IS dumb.

#Supernatural #Sherlock #Destiel #Johnlock #Stucky #MCU

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lewishamil10n · 3 years

Note

Please please please make that "Sam wouldn't wake up" into a full fic!!! (If u don't want to that's totally fine, I mean no pressure at all :)) it's just suuuuper good :D

[Sam wouldn't wake up.]

—

"What do you mean Sam's gone to see Jody?" Dean asked, frowning. "He called me a few hours ago and said he was going to go to bed."

"She had an emergency," Castiel said. He wasn't meeting Dean's eyes, which Dean found strange. This was Castiel — the dude often had to be reminded that humans didn't like being stared at intensely.

"Such as?" he asked.

"Sam didn't say," Castiel answered evasively.

"Weird," muttered Dean. He moved into his bedroom and put his bag down on his bed. "You know what, I'm gonna call him. Just check in, see what's up."

Castiel hesitated at the doorway. "I'm sure he's fine, Dean," he said. "Sam is a grown man. He doesn't need you checking on him all the time."

"I know that," Dean said, trying not to snap. It had been a long drive after an exhausting hunt, and he'd hated having to leave Sam behind. But Sam had been sick, practically delirious with fever and no good on a hunt, and so Dean had reluctantly left him in Castiel's care. He'd spent the entire trip worrying himself sick over his brother, calling to talk to him as much as he could. He'd broken damn near fifty laws speeding on his way back, and now Sam wasn't even home and Castiel was being weird.

Something wasn't right.

He fished his phone out of his pocket and hit Sam's latest number on speed dial. The entire time he was aware of Castiel watching him, eyes narrowed, and if Dean didn't know better he'd say the angel seemed apprehensive.

Two seconds of dial tone later, Dean heard Sam's ringtone. It was coming from somewhere within the bunker, which made no sense. Sam wouldn't have left home without his cell phone. "What the hell," muttered Dean, leaving his room so he could follow the sound. Castiel trailed after him, quiet.

The ringtone was issuing from Sam's room, his phone vibrating on his side table. Dean watched it ring for a second before hanging up on his end. "Sam wouldn't leave his phone," he said.

"He left in a hurry," Castiel said. "Perhaps he forgot."

"Then I'll call Jody," decided Dean.

"No!" exclaimed Castiel, and cringed when Dean turned to glare at him.

"What the hell is going on?" he demanded. "Cas, where's my brother?"

"Jody—" began Castiel weakly, but Dean cut him off.

"I think it's quite clear that's not what's happening," he snapped. "Or do you want me to call and confirm it?"

For a few moments Castiel just looked at him, posture tense and hands flexing, and then he said, "I do not know where Sam is. I came to his room and found him missing."

"Then why didn't you just say that in the first place?" asked Dean angrily. "Why did you lie to me?"

Castiel hesitated.

"Fuck's sake, Cas!" Dean threw his phone in the general direction of Sam's bed, where it bounced off a pillow to land on the floor. Paying it no mind, he ran his hands through his hair, trying to get his brain to work.

All of Sam's things were still in his room. His jacket slung over the back of his chair; boots at the foot of his bed; travel bag in its place; and of course, his cell phone on the table. It didn't look as if Sam had gone anywhere. He might as well have gone to the bathroom.

"How long has he been missing for?" Dean asked.

"I'm not sure," Castiel said after a beat. "I returned to his room to find him gone a few hours ago. I had checked on him some time before that and he'd been asleep."

Sam's bed was unmade. If Sam had gone anywhere of his own volition, he would have made his bed, he would have taken his things, he would have told Dean. Dean had no idea what the hell was going on, and it didn't help that his tired brain was barely able to process his brother's absence.

"Okay, okay, focus," he murmured to himself, his hands curling into fists. This was basic. Finding a missing person. Something he could do in his sleep. What had Dad taught them? Clues. Look for clues. He'd done that.

Tracking spells. John had taught them some, and Sam knew a whole lot more too. Dean was sure that if he looked, he'd find something that could help.

"Okay," he said again, and began looking around for something he could use. Sam's DNA would be perfect, but if not that, then something he owned could do as well — and there, a few strands of long brown hair on Sam's pillow. Dean picked them up carefully, wrapping them in his handkerchief, and he stowed it safely in his pocket before turning and striding out of Sam's room.

"Where are you going?" Castiel called after him, hurrying to catch up.

"To find my brother," Dean answered with determination, heading straight for the library. Not for the first time he felt glad for Sam's overwhelmingly obsessive need to organize everything — it would make looking for spells a lot easier. He supposed he could always call Rowena too, but he'd rather leave that as a last resort. She was an ally and Sam trusted her, but the less people knew about his disappearance, the better.

"Are you going to track him?" asked Castiel, watching as Dean flipped through a book of spells.

Dean muttered an affirmative, eyes on the yellowed pages in front of him.

"What if it doesn't work?" Castiel asked.

"Why wouldn't it work?" countered Dean. "We've got ingredients for pretty much everything, and I've got what I need for the spell to track Sam."

"Just a possibility," murmured Castiel.

Dean didn't want to think about that, so he focused his energies on going through the book. He found a spell soon enough, and felt an almost overwhelming rush of affection for his brother when he saw the notes Sam had put in the margins. Even when he wasn't there, he was helping Dean out, making his life easier.

"Are you going to stand there and keep staring, or are you planning on making yourself useful?" he asked Castiel, who started as if he'd been jolted out of a reverie.

"Of course, Dean, tell me what you need," he said, straightening.

Dean handed him a list of the ingredients they'd need for the spell. "We've got most of these in the stores, but I'll need you to find the pigeon wishbone. I don't think we have that."

Castiel squinted down at the list, and then looked up at Dean. "Of course, Dean," he said again. "I will do my best."

"Cool," said Dean gruffly. "Hurry."

"Yes, I will." Castiel turned to go, and then paused. "Dean, if there is anything you want to talk about — I understand you must be worried and afraid. I just want you to know I am here for you no matter what."

"Thanks?" Dean said, after a moment. "That's really nice, Cas, but I'm all right. I just need to find Sam, and I'll be peachy."

For a nanosecond Dean thought he saw frustration cross Castiel's face, but it was gone before he could be sure. Castiel's expression was impassive as he said, "I understand," and turned his back on Dean.

—

It took Castiel around ten hours to locate and acquire a pigeon wishbone, during which time Dean got the spell set up and ready to go. He put the ingredients in the bowl as Castiel watched, and read the words from the book exactly as Sam instructed in his notes. He added Sam's hair to it and said some more words, and put the edge of a map to the flames arising in the bowl. He watched as the map burnt up, little flames traveling around the edges of the paper and eating it up until there was nothing left.

The spell didn't work.

"Fuck," snarled Dean, throwing his hand out and sweeping everything to the floor in his anger. "Fuck, how did it not work? How—" He rounded on Castiel. "Pigeon wishbone, are you sure it was pigeon wishbone? The real deal?"

Castiel looked taken aback at being questioned like this. "Of course I am, Dean. I verified what it was before bringing it to you."

Dean stared at him for a few moments, and then turned away. His heart was racing. With each hour away from Sam, it felt like he was losing years off his own lifespan. "I'm calling Rowena," he muttered, grabbing his cell phone off the floor.

"Isn't there anything else we can try?" Castiel asked, looking at the mess Dean had made of the war room.

"There is. I'm doing it," Dean told him, phone held to his ear as he waited for Rowena to pick up.

The phone kept ringing. She did not answer. Dean tried again, and then a third time. Nothing. It was as if he was dialing a dead end, which he knew was not possible because Rowena had sworn that that number would reach her no matter what. He knew that she wouldn't be reached if she didn't want to be — but it had been a long time since Rowena had felt the need to hide from the Winchesters.

Dean hung up and threw his phone into the nearest wall. It broke apart, screen cracking and the casing coming off, and Dean felt a second of vicious satisfaction before it immediately turned to regret. Shit, what if Sam tried calling that number? What if Rowena called back? Fuck. Sam could call and call and Dean wouldn't know, because all his other numbers redirected to this one, and— and he wouldn't know if Sam needed him.

Overcome suddenly with fatigue, Dean collapsed into the nearest chair. It felt like his legs were giving out on him, his entire body reacting to the events of the last few hours. Sam was gone, Rowena wasn't picking up the phone, and Dean had no idea where to even begin looking. He could feel the stress and lack of sleep catching up with him, and for the first time, it was mixed in with fear. Yeah, he was perfectly aware Sam could more than look after himself. But fuck, he was still Dean's little brother, and he was sick, he'd been coughing up a lung the last time they'd spoken on the phone—

"I shouldn't have left him," he said, and wasn't surprised to hear how hoarse his voice was. "God, I should have just — just stayed, and—"

"Dean. You can't blame yourself." Castiel sounded earnest, and was looking at Dean with pleading eyes. "You are a hunter, and you were doing your duty. Sam is not a child that needs looking after."

"Why do you keep saying that, man?" questioned Dean, suddenly annoyed. "I know he's not a kid, Cas. He's survived more than you and I put together, more than we could even imagine on our worst days. But he's my little brother, okay? He's all I've got, so forgive me for worrying about him!"

"Why do you say he's all you've got?" Now Castiel sounded irritated too. "Am I not here with you, Dean? Have I not been here for you whenever you've needed me?"

"Uh." Dean paused, taken aback. Castiel seemed... well, if Dean had to pick a word, he'd say jealous. Castiel seemed jealous. "Dude. You know what I meant," he said, watching the angel carefully. "'Course you've been here too. But Sam's different. You know that."

"Different?" repeated Castiel. "All the pain he has caused you, and you still care so much for him."

"All the pain — what are you talking about?" This was getting too damn confusing, and Dean needed a drink. He needed some rest. He needed — God, he needed his little brother back.

"You know what I'm talking about," Castiel said, almost snappishly.

"No, I don't," Dean said.

There was a subtle shift in the atmosphere. The air between them felt charged, almost electric. It felt like one wrong move, one misplaced word, and lightning would strike. The look on Castiel's face was strange and foreign. It looked like someone else's expression was twisting his features. He was always intense; now, he felt almost dangerous, and Dean couldn't quite put his finger on why. But something had changed, that much was clear. And so was the fact that Castiel knew more than he was letting on.

"I mean — don't you ever get tired of it, Dean?" Castiel asked, his tone a weird mixture of earnest and annoyed. "Dragging him around, making sure he's all right, that he is not... going off the rails, as you say. There is always something or the other wrong with him, some problem you must fix, and I don't understand how you do it. I do not understand why you stay. Why you even care enough to—"

"Cas," warned Dean. "That's my little brother you're talking about."

"Yes, I know, you've said as much multiple times," scoffed Castiel. He seemed almost crazed now, and he had that guilty look in his eyes that Dean was all too familiar with. The look that followed whatever he'd done that needed to be undone.

"Cas, what's going on here?" Dean asked one last time. "And don't — don't give me some story about Sam going missing, or whatever. I need to know the truth, Cas."

"The truth?" Cas let out a harsh laugh. "Okay, Dean. Here is the truth. I am tired of being sidelined. I am tired of always coming second to an absolute disaster of a human being. I am tired of pretending that I care for him as much as I do for you."

Dean's hand tightened on the handle of his gun. He hadn't even been aware he'd reached for it, though it remained hidden under the table. "What the fuck are you talking about?" he demanded. "I'm not kidding, Cas, you ever call him that again I'll make you wish you'd never been poofed into existence—"

"But he is," interrupted Castiel. His hair was standing on end from where he'd run his fingers through it, and his eyes were wide, demeanor frenzied. Dean couldn't recall ever seeing him in this state. Up until now, he'd had the impression that Castiel liked Sam, loved him, even. He knew Sam valued their friendship, always stood up for him when Dean was too hard on him, when he'd messed up again and felt guilt. He could never have imagined that all along, this is what Castiel had really thought.

He thought of how Sam would feel if he knew — the betrayal, the way his heart would break. It was the thought of tears in Sam's eyes that had Dean getting to his feet, gun abandoned in favor of an angel blade.

God, this was so messy. He had no idea how it had come to this.

"Cas," he said quietly. "Tell me you don't mean it. Tell me this isn't you, and we'll let this go, never talk about it again."

Castiel let out a hollow laugh. It rang around the room, making Dean's hair stand on end. "It is me, Dean," he said harshly. "I'm not under the influence of any spell, any magic, anything at all. But my words wouldn't be any less truthful if I was."

"You don't know what the fuck you're talking about," Dean said then, voice quiet. "All this time I thought you cared about Sam, that you liked him. And here's the kicker, Cas — he fuckin' adores you. Fuck, he's been kinder to you than I ever have, even I know that. So what the fuck are you doing, Cas? Where is all this coming from?"

"You wouldn't understand," Castiel said, and there was hate in his tone. "You are so blinded by your love for him that you can't see anything else. Anyone else."

Dean blinked. "What." Then he decided it didn't matter, and held his angel sword higher so that it was in plain view of Castiel. "Never mind, I don't care. Cas, I'm gonna ask you one last time before I'm forced to make this dirtier than it already is. Where is my brother?"

Castiel looked down at the blade, and then up at Dean. He smiled, and it was cruel in its coldness. "I don't know," he said. "For all I know, his atoms are scattered all over the entire universe."

Dean's blood froze in his veins. "What?"

"There was nothing wrong with your spell, Dean," Castiel said. "But tracking spells are only useful for locating living people."

"No," said Dean, and then again, "No," because it made no sense, Castiel was talking crap—

"He's gone," Castiel said, with an indifferent shrug. "I didn't mean to. I was only trying to help him sleep, but... well. I don't know where he is."

"What did you do to him?" whispered Dean. His hand was shaking, angel blade unsteady in his grip. "Cas, what did you do?"

Castiel looked him in the eye. "I got rid of him."

—

Dean didn't know when or how it happened. The angel blade was cold in his hands, and Castiel was spread-eagle on the war room floor, bracketed in the burnt-out silhouette of his wings. The fight hadn't been long. Castiel had barely defended himself. He seemed to have resigned himself to the fact of his own death, and that did nothing to comfort Dean in the least.

Sam was gone. Sam was gone.

Dean sank to the ground, angel blade clattering to the ground, his head in his hands. He felt weak in the knees. His heart felt like it was going to give out any second, and his eyes were burning with rage and disbelief.

Sammy was gone. His sweet, kind, brave little brother. Gone.

He never should have gone on that hunt.

Maybe, he thought, half-panicked and hysteric, maybe Billie would accept Castiel in exchange for Sam. It was a very low chance, but — that was what they did. They took the odds and made them their bitch, and now was not going to be any different. He wouldn't take no for an answer. And if she refused, he'd just beg her to take him too. Either way, he was not going to live without Sam.

Dean got to his feet, took in a shaky breath, and reached for the spellbook.

end.

#asks #anonymous #my writing #aw anon im rlly glad you liked the ficlet! i hope you like this too #it somehow turned into like. dark!cas with a side of unrequited love #it's probably bc i've been thinking too much about how if you take the 15.18 confession as romantic #it implies that everything cas did to sam throughout the show was at least a little deliberate #because if sam's out of the picture then maybe he has a chance with dean #anyway i'll tag this just to be safe #anti castiel #samdean #supernatural #mcd #suicide mention

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curioussubjects · 3 years

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I feel bad discussing spn now that’s over but I’ve been wondering. Do you think dean actually meant it when he said “why does that something always seem to be you” (15.03)? Usually people blurt out what’s on their mind all of a sudden even if they didn’t mean to say it out loud. But it comes out because the person either thinks about it or actually believes it. Do you think at one point Dean truly blamed Cas for Mary? I mean, putting 15.09 aside of course.

Why do you feel bad discussing SPN now the show’s over, anon?? Don’t feel bad!

The short answer to your question, in my view, is that Dean was lashing out because of how his unaddressed trauma over Cas dying (cf. 7x01, purgatory, 12x23) gets entangled with him processing his grief over Mary and Jack. Everything is further exacerbated by Chuck’s villain reveal, and the events that lead to Rowena’s “death.” The longer answer to this question starts with acknowledging that feelings and trauma are complicated things that aren't always rational. And that's the crux of the matter for Dean in that moment he lashes out at Cas: he's not behaving rationally. We know Dean is angry, and historically doesn't handle anger well at all, but we also know, even without 15x09, that what Dean is really feeling is fear. In that moment, Dean is angry, and he's scared. If you watch the scene closely, too, you'll notice that Dean is still present enough to regret saying "why does that something always seem to be you" to Cas. He tenses up, he looks down and only looks up again in stubbornness defiance when Cas says he can't even look at him. Then Cas leaves, which has always been an issue for Dean. However warranted Cas's decision to leave was, it still hits Dean as rejection, too. All this is to say that the break up scene is extremely fraught, and Dean is the type of person who needs time to process events and emotions, and time to process is something he hasn't had since Mary disappeared.

So you ask: ok, cool, but what does all of that have to do with Cas dying, Liv? And here's where I say they have everything to do with Cas dying. I've talked about this before in tags and in other posts that I can't think of right now, but there are common occurrences in the events that have led to the more traumatic Cas deaths. If we think of Cas dying in 07x01, the context for that is as follows: Cas needs to solve a problem, he wants to ask Dean for help, but the desire to not burden him with it is greater, so Cas ends up handling the problem solo, which leads to disaster and also him dying. Or, well, apparently dying. But as far as Dean was concerned, Cas was dead, and he did struggle with it a lot during season 7. Now, fast-forward to s12 and the context of how Cas ends up dead then: Cas needs to solve a problem, part of him does want to cooperate with Sam and Dean to solve it, but he ultimately decides his desire to bring Dean a win, and to shield him and Sam from actions they'd suffer from are greater. Predictably, Cas ends up handling the problem solo, which leads to complications, and him being killed by Lucifer. Cas's death in 12x23 is significantly more traumatic to Dean than the one in 07x01 as season 13 starts with a grief arc that is devoted to Dean's suffering over Cas -- to the point that suffering overshadows even his grief over Mary. Granted, these are somewhat reductive summaries of the events of seasons 7 and 12, but the fact remains that those two deaths were remarkably similar as well as traumatic.

If you look at trauma theory in regards to literary analysis, you'll notice that a key element is repetition. The story of trauma is a story of echoes, which is partly why triggers are what they are for people who have PTSD. In particular, a situation doesn't need to be an exact replica in order to evoke a traumatic memory. A situation need only be similar enough to the traumatic event to cause a trauma response. Therefore, if we keep in mind that the events leading to 15x03 aren’t exact mirrors of 07x01 or 12x23, but too reminiscent for comfort, then Dean’s behavior toward Cas starts making a bit more sense -- not excused, but understandable. A quick summary of these similarities goes as follows: Cas notices there’s is something off with Jack because of his soul; he decides to investigate on his own to avoid worrying the Winchesters and also because of his own fear of losing his family. He only comes forward with what is happening after something potentially disastrous has happened (Mary’s death). Later, Cas deviates from the agreed plan to close the wound leading to hell, which leads to another disastrous consequence (Rowena’s death). What does this look like? Cas makes a decision to act on his own, and doesn’t tell Dean (or Sam) about it, something goes wrong, someone dies. Notably, here, moreover, is that Cas obviously doesn’t die, but he has paralleled Mary before (when he was dead in s13) and there’s an argument to be made that he would eventually parallel Rowena (with heaven), but that’s from a metanarrative perspective rather than Dean’s, and I digress.

Oh, It’s worth noting, too, that the way in which the arc starting with 14x18 and culminating in 15x03 presents a similar, but not quite, chain of events as those of previous seasons signals the intentionality of the trauma narrative.

But anyway, as we were: the resonance between the traumatic and triggering events, with the latter being traumatic in their own way, make Dean response in a way that is unfair for the situation at hand, but betray a deeper truth about Dean’s state of mind. Backtracking a little from 15x03, the first instance of Dean lashing out at Cas happens in 14x18 with the (heartbreaking) line: “Then you're dead to me.” At face value, those words are a condemnation of Cas and indicate a complete breakdown of the relationship, hinging on Jack having hurt/killed Mary. There is, however, another angle there, pain simmering beneath the surface, which makes more sense in its direction to Cas: the last time Jack, Mary, and Cas were involved in a tableaux like this, Cas died and Mary was gone. In what is an inversion of events, Mary is dead and Cas is...there, but as an echo of Jack’s birth, to say Cas is dead is a statement of fact: he did die, then. And as he was a parallel to Mary in the aftermath of Jack’s birth (and the rehashing of the John, Dean, Sam drama through Dean, Sam, and Jack), so is he a parallel to Mary here, except in circumstance. Both Mary and Cas had been after Jack. Mary happened to find him first, but Cas could’ve easily been the one to find him. Easily been the one who died. See the issue? This is obviously not to say that Dean’s grief and rage weren’t about Mary herself, but that the situations are entangled and murky.

Further entanglement and murkiness happen when Cas is forced to change the plan to seal the hell wound in 15x03. We all know, including Dean, that there was nothing Cas could’ve done instead of what he did. But besides the change of plans, there’s an undercurrent of anxiety of the wound closing before Cas makes it out. He does, of course, but that’s the what if, always. And to illustrate the possibility, Rowena sacrifices herself to close the wound. It’s not coincidence that the similarities here are tenuous considering the stress burden from everything that has happened since 14x18 has continued to grow with no respite.

The stage is set then for the confrontation that leads to Cas walking out of the bunker. Dean is clearly on edge, and Cas is in a particularly vulnerable and hopeless headspace:

CASTIEL: Sorry about Rowena. DEAN: You're sorry? Why didn't you just stick to the damn plan? CASTIEL: Belphegor was lying. DEAN: Belphegor's a demon. CASTIEL: He was using us. He wanted to eat every last soul to take over Hell, Earth, and every... DEAN: Yeah, and we would've figured it out... after. With Rowena. CASTIEL: The plan changed, Dean. Something went wrong. You know this. Something always goes wrong. DEAN: Yeah, why does that something always seem to be you?

The reason I went of this long journey to come back to this is so as to make clear that what Dean is talking about here isn’t about Rowena at all, and it’s not about Mary either. We know Dean didn’t really blame Cas for Mary, and that he didn’t blame him for Rowena, either. But do those bolded parts sound familiar?

CASTIEL: Listen. Raphael will kill us all. He'll turn the world into a graveyard. I had no choice.

DEAN: No, you had a choice. You just made the wrong one.

CASTIEL: You don't understand. It's complicated.

DEAN: No, actually, it's not, and you know that. Why else would you keep this whole thing a secret, huh, unless you knew that it was wrong? When crap like this comes around, we deal with it... Like we always have. What we don't do is we don't go out and make another deal with the Devil!

CASTIEL: It sounds so simple when you say it like that. Where were you when I needed to hear it?

DEAN: I was there. Where were you?

DEAN: You should've come to us for help, Cas.

How about:

DEAN: Cas, you can't – With everything that's going on, you can't just go dark like that. We didn't know what happened to you. We were worried. That's not okay. CASTIEL: Well, I didn't mean to add to your distress. I – Dean, I just keep failing. Again and again. When you were taken, I searched for months and I couldn't find you. And then Kelly escaped on my watch, and I couldn't find her. And I just wanted I needed to come back here with a win for you. For myself.

[...]

DEAN : We will find a better way. CASTIEL: You mean, we? DEAN : Yes, dumbass. We. You, me, and Sam, we're just better together. So now that you're back, let's go, Team Free Will. Let's get it done. CASTIEL: I'd like that. DEAN: Great.

“Then, you’re dead to me.” “...why does that something always seem to be you”

Because it’s Cas, and Cas being dead and gone. The tragedy of the divorce arc is that Cas ends up gone, too. However, this time, it’s Dean’s fault for not stopping him. Here, Dean’s fear of Cas dying leads to the anger that ultimately pushes him away. So, yeah, Dean meant what he said, but not in the way Cas took it. Not in the way it appeared as.

The other tragedy of Supernatural ending as it did is that Dean never got to heal from that trauma, he never got to confront Cas for it, either. Make no mistake, the empty deal is another spiral of Dean’s unaddressed trauma over Cas dying. The beats are the same, and the result is Cas, gone, and Dean, shattered. Sadly, we never got our final resolution, the climatic reunion that would mirror Dean’s prayer in purgatory and Cas’s confession in the dungeon. It’s a story left unfinished.

#destiel #dean winchester #deancas #supernatural #spn #spn meta #questions and answers #my writing #i keep saying the remaining huge piece of unaddressed trauma from dean is cas's death #remember that thing i keep repeating about dean's unaddressed trauma re: cas?#as you can see i do yell about this a whole lot #this thing got SO LONG ANON IM SORRY #ksjdhfkasjhfklasd #hopefully it's helpful?

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postmodernmulticoloredcloak · 3 years

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So I watched 10.09 recently, and it has that part where Dean tells a story about him basically being almost roofied as a teen, but somehow it ends up framed as the funny joke and yet another proof that John "did what he could", and I kind of hate this? And it's the same episode in which MoC!Dean killed guys that kidnapped and tried to rape Claire, and you'd think writers would've addressed the parallels and acknowledge that Dean could've been triggered by this situation. 1/2

2/2 But in the end, it's never addressed, and the whole situation is framed as the proof that Dean is evil now. And I'm not even sure what I am trying to say, but with that being the show's approach back in s10, I'm not surprised about the finale anymore. Guess we should've known?

That’s an excellent angle to look at the issue because the Mark of Cain arc is a clear example of how people with different experiences will see the same thing in wildly different ways. There’s this phase of season 10 where everyone is like “oh no Dean is Getting Worse” and when you look at what Dean is doing... you actually go “...good for him”.

Let’s give Caesar what belongs to Caesar. It’s not “the writers” in this case, it’s Dabb. Plenty of other writers don’t fall into this John apologism thing. Just look at how the episode before Lebanon, written by Buckner and Ross Leming, says that sometimes John would temporarily kick Dean out because he was “pissed at him” despite Dean always taking his side to mantain the peace. It almost seems like a statement to sprinkle some salt given what Dabb does in Lebanon, you know? Maybe not, but there is a tension between “John was shitty” writers and “John did his best” writers.

In hindsight, we gave Dabb too much of the benefit of the doubt. We were like, weeell, that’s supposed to be way the characters perceive the truth, which is distorted by the trauma... But now it’s obvious that he truly believed in the John-did-his-best version. He brought him back and got Mary back with him. No matter what happened to the finale, the network didn’t print those pictures of John and Mary to hang on Sam’s wall. He never took Dean’s abuse seriously and it shows.

The “anedocte” of Dean getting drugged and “saved” by John from being raped is obviously there to parallel him with Claire. Which works! It’s so weird because it’s like. You are soooo close to getting the point. Younger Dean was assaulted just like this teenage girl is assaulted and Dean saves her... but apparently John yelling at those people is a good way of dealing with the issue, while murdering child traffickers is an overraction thus bad.

That’s the problem, isn’t it? That Dean’s murder spree is framed as an overreaction. Sam is like “tell me you had to do this! tell me it was you or them!” - the answer to which (by the narrative) is obviously no, it wasn’t self defense, he just killed them because he could. He just murdered those men for no reason except he felt like being murdery. And the audience is supposed to be like “oh no! Dean is murdery for no reason except for murderiness! That’s bad!”.

But it’s a power fantasy, isn’t it? Going on a murder spree on rapists and traffickers. I bet any people who’s been violated like that has fantasized of doing the exact thing Dean does here. Killing them all.

Dean had the physical strength and skill to kill them all, why shouldn’t he kill them? (I mean, in real life I’m against private justice because I’m a fan of the state of law, but the Supernatural universe obviously works on different principles than the state of law. Again, it’s a fictional narrative that plays out as a fantasy for the audience, so.)

So what was Dabb’s intention? I’m afraid it’s the worst one. “John Winchester’s not going to win any Number One Dad awards, you know? But, you know, damn if he wasn’t there when we needed him”. What the fuck, Dabb? It’s been established since season 1 that John WASN’T there when they needed him. Which... I’m afraid... leads us to the Cas-Claire plot in the episode. Cas has fucked off with Jimmy’s body leaving Claire on her own. Parallels how John wasn’t going to win wny Number One Dad awards. But! Cas is there when Claire Really Needs Him i.e. when she’s about to be raped by older men. Parallels how John was there when Dean Really Needed Him i.e. when he was about to be raped by older men.

I think the point is to say, Cas kinda sucked because he took Claire’s dad away but hey! He’s actually a good figure for Claire because he gets there in time to prevent her from being raped. Just like (ew) John kinda sucked as a father because hunting and stuff, but hey! He’s actually a good figure for Dean because he got there in time to prevent him from being raped.

It’s pretty yucky. Literally NOBODY wanted a parallel between Cas and John. But he made one. And he made one to absolve Cas from the guilt he carried for what he did to Claire (Claire’s mother is a mother so who fucking cares about her. She’s basically a Blurry Wife(TM), she’s only a tool for Claire’s arc, Cas apparently only cares about the harm he did the child, not the wife, for some reason.) and to absolve Cas from his guilt it absolves John too. Don’t worry, being a parent is hard. You often screw up. But you can *looks at smudged writing on hand* prevent the kid from being raped by predatory adults and everything’s fine now.

It’s not really important if the child suffered hunger or whatever, the only important thing is that they don’t get raped, because that’s bad, everything else is just a little detail.

All Dabb got with that scene was to paint Sam as extremely unsympathetic because he’s no longer a child, he’s a full adult now and still thinks of that episode at the CBGB as a funny story. That’s not a good look. It almost makes you think that the writer himself saw it as a funny story. Lol teenage boy biting more than he can chew. But then why the Claire parallel? The Claire scene onviously is not supposed to be anything but horrific. I'll give Dabb the benefit of the doubt on this specific thing.

It’s weird, yes, because Dabb wrote Dark Side of the Moon where he establishes that John was a bad husband/father even before tragedy hit the family. But apparently that’s the “not going to win any Number One Dad awards” part, I suppose? I guess he intended to write John as this flawed, ~complex~ figure who was imperfect but still brave and whatever blah blah did his best blah blah. I’m all for flawed complicated characters but a horrible father is a horrible father. A rose by any other name... parental abuse is still parental abuse even if the poor guy was complicated and traumatized and did what he thought he had to do to prepare his sons for a violent world.

Also, the story frames Dean’s escapade as a teenager being stupid. “You know what he got for that? Me whining about how much he embarrassed me. Me telling him that I hated him. But then he stopped and turned around looked at me and said, Son, you don’t like me? That’s fine. It’s not my job to be liked.” “It’s my job to raise you right.” This seems straight from a novel about teenagers doing something stupid that they’re too young to realize that their parents are right to be against them doing. But this isn’t just... a parent walking into a bar to stop their child to drink alcohol. Dean literally describes feeling sick from something that was inside the alcohol.

Sure, it makes sense that he’d lash out to John because of the shame and shock. But the scene is... off. Are we supposed to see this as a typical teenage mistake? Are we supposed to read it as something as horrific as what happened to Claire, literally sold into rape? Or, worse, are we supposed to see what happened to Claire as a teenage mistake, ah silly teenager, blindly trusting shady people, no wonder you end up in a situation where you’d get raped if a father figure didn’t sweep in and save you. I hope that wasn’t the intent.

To get back to Dean’s Mark-of-Cain violence, the writers clearly didn’t intend it to come from the Darkness up to a certain point. It was supposed to an arc about your own inner darkness (consider the Charlie episode, a couple episodes later). Then they came up with the idea of The(TM) Darkness, the suppressed cosmic feminine. While it caused a bit of dissonance in the subtext, it doesn’t really change Dean’s narrative, because his inner darkness is the trauma, and his trauma is inherebtly tied to the “feminine” i.e. the parts of him that don’t fit seamlessly into the scheme of toxic masculinity values. That the violence that comes from the Mark of Cain comes from Dean himself and that’s it, or is connected to the Darkness, it doesn’t change what it means for Dean. Dean and Amara have parallel histories, the feminine principle locked away, the trauma the anger stems from.

In 10x09 we’re still in the Before The (TM) Darkness era, before the suppressed cosmic feminine. The Mark of Cain arc is still about... well, Cain. But the shift is the signal that someone looked at Dean’s arc and said... you know what? “Lucifer gave me this curse so now I’m demonic and murdery” is meh. “Toxic masculinity suppresses the feminine and it creates trauma which rage and violence comes from” is more interesting. I don’t know whose idea it was, but it was a good idea, and surely the idea came from seeing how Dean’s MoC narrative was unfolding.

Dean’s MoC narrative was unfolding in a certain way, in fact, because of a pretty simple reason. There’s a fundamental tension in Dean’s MoC arc. We want him to go murdery, but it’s also our main character, so we don’t want him to do really horrible things because he still needs to be relatable. The audience cannot hate him, so he must NOT do something entirely unforgivable. He still needs to be somewhat relatable, even when demonic or demonic-adjacent.

So he goes on a murder spree... but it’s rapists and child traffickers. He’s demon, but he kills a misogynistic dude that wanted his wife dead for cheating on him. He’s a demon, but beats up dudes that harass women. He does a slaughter, but they’re nazi. He’s off the deep end, but works a case of kidnapped and abused young women...

Speaking of which. 10x23, written by Jeremy Carver. Dean works a case where a girl was killed while dressed scantily and Dean makes some slut-shaming remarks, and we’re supposed to think “whoa Dean, that’s bad”. But later he confronts the girl’s father and what does he say?

I’m just doing my job, Mr. McKinley.

By suggesting my daughter was a slut?

I’ll admit that thought crossed my mind. Then I came here, and I smelled the deceit and the beatings and the shame that pervade this home.

You shut your face right now.

And you know what? I don’t blame Rose anymore. No wonder she put on that skank outfit and went out there looking for validation, right into the arms of the monster that killed her.

Back then the episode was super controversial and everyone hated the case because of the apparent slut-shaming but I loved it! Because it’s not about the girl. It’s about Dean. Dean doesn’t think that a girl gets killed because she dresses in a miniskirt so it’s her fault. Dean is projecting on himself and he’s not actually victim blaming the girl, he’s victim blaming himself. And when he absolves the girl by putting the blame on the father... well, subtextually he’s absolving himself by putting the blame on his father. On the deceit and the beatings and the shame that pervaded his own home. He’s textually not ready to absolve himself, of course, he summons Death to ask him to kill him later, but subtextually he’s on the right path.

Rose McKinley basically did the same mistake Dean did at the CBGB when he trusted some older people who offered him drinks and the same mistake Claire did when she trusted a man who sold her for money because he offered him a place and stability. She trusted the wrong people (in this case, vampires, which adds the whole subtext of vampires and sexuality) who took advantage of her. Except Rose had no one to save her. (Her friend, Crystal, gets rescued by Dean, even if he causes the other hunter Rudy to die in the process.)

Carver’s writing is pretty brutal. The girl made that mistake because was abused at home, so she was desperate for validation and that desperation drove her into the wrong hands. (Rose even has a brother who blames himself for bringing her sister to her future murderers, destructive sibling relationship check.) It doesn’t actually even matter if Dean guessed right about Rose’s family situation, because what matters is what it tells us about Dean. He basically relates to a dead abused girl. Actually all through the season Dean is paralleled to “skanks” “sluts” and sex workers. Obviously this happens kinda all through the show, the whole “the business is based on absent fathers” thing happened much earlier in the story, so it’s not new. But s10 draws a picture of female suffering - abuse, manipulation and death. Season 10 was difficult to go through. In hindsight, it was probably on purpose because it was supposed to be darkest hour of the feminine. Summed with some good old fashioned misogyny, but hey.

The Carver era was wonky but Carver wanted to free the feminine. (I believe that Mary’s comeback, while written by Dabb because of the showrunner shift, was planned before the showrunner shift.) We thought the Dabb era wanted the same, with Mary choosing life and Amara being independent and so on, but it evidently wasn’t the case. Not a single woman arrives at end of the story. It’s hardly ~Bucklemming or ~the network or ~covid because it starts before the very end.

I’m not saying that dead sluts are more feminist than living women, but if the women die or disappear anyway (and they did) I’d rather have an exploration of trauma than nothing. And I definitely prefer a dead slut narrative that calls out parental abuse than a narrative where women live but abuse gets the you-did-your-best treatment.

Whoops! I digressed! But feel free to ask for any clarification or send me any observation or thought.

#anon #my spn thoughts #season 10 #spn 10x09 #spn 10x23 #dean and john #parental abuse #john winchester's a+ parenting #mark of cain #demon dean #spn #i love talking about season 10 uh

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katsidhe · 3 years

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your meta is one i either completely agree with or can understand where you're coming from, so i would love to hear your thoughts on the more flawed aspects of sam's personality, bc i feel like fandom always somewhat misunderstands them and/or makes up flaws for him to fit their narrative. loved the recent chapter of aware, arise btw!! <3

Thank you!

Mmm, Sam and flaws. yeah, this area is rife with pitfalls. The big problem here, which makes fandom interpretation so wildly variable and often off-base, is that there are a lot of things that the show, or Dean’s POV, would like to categorize as Sam’s fundamental flaws that simply... aren’t. The big examples are hubris, rage, and disloyalty.

But, I mean, since when does Sam have a rage problem? When he shoved John in s1? When he shot Jake, who actually, literally killed him? When he confesses in s5 that he is angry about the horrible circumstances of his life, the ways that he’s been manipulated and controlled and hurt both by people close to him and by powers beyond his control? Frankly, I would be more concerned if Sam weren’t angry, and in fact I get concerned about this very thing in s6+. Wrath is only a ~~flaw~~ if it’s consistently externalized in ways that hurt people. To say that there is a rage beast underneath Sam’s iron control, to hammer on this idea that this rage is oooh more scary because Sam’s generally in control of himself, rather disregards what actually makes anger issues... issues.

Hubris, and disloyalty, well--that’s Dean’s perspective for sure. It’s Dean, rather than Sam, who struggles with being too controlling, and with over-dictating the course of their lives. Sam’s actions in even s4 aren’t particularly based in an overwhelming hubris, but rather in a grim, goal-oriented tunnel vision. There’s a sense less of grandiosity, more of sick determination.

Okay, so what about actual flaws?

So, like, the thing with Sam and Dean is, well, they’re serial killers for a living. And there is a certain amount of hideous moral compromise that has to be wrapped up in that career, in knowing that you intentionally kill sapient beings all the time, and moreover that at least some of those beings are innocent, or at least don’t strictly deserve death. And all that’s without tallying up the collateral.

Dean overcomes this hurdle by identifying himself strongly with the righteousness of his motivations, deeply woven into his identity. His own subjective perspective is privileged above those he kills because he, personally, embodies and must always embody a hero. Consequently, his moral struggles are all about placing his own needs and his own (emotionally informed) perspective above that of other people, even, and in some cases especially, if it still causes him personal anguish. He kills Cyrus and narrowly avoids killing Jack not because he hates them, but because he places a higher premium on his conviction that they’re Destined For Evil than on any other potential for mitigating factors.

Sam does not engage with his personal subjectivity like that. When Sam does something morally objectionable, it tends to be because he’s doing the opposite, which is to totally outsource his moral conflict based on the extremity of the goal he is pursuing or based on his reluctance to trust his own judgment. Sam has the ability to write off harm to himself when he thinks it’s necessary, which, okay; but this also means he can and will write off harm to others too. Sam can rationalize and rationalize and rationalize.

It’s far easier for him to see the big picture than Dean, and thus easier for him to excuse wrongs on the basis of the greater good. Sam’s tolerance for both personal and collateral costs rise exponentially when he thinks there’s a clear end clause in sight--eg the Apocalypse in s4-5, the trials in s8, the Mark in s10, cooperation with the BMoL in s12, saving Mary in s13, even getting to Michael in s14. There’s a certain pragmatic ruthlessness in Sam that’s really, really visible when he’s soulless.

And sometimes it serves him well! It sometimes means that Sam finds it a lot easier than Dean to engage in the moral grays of sparing individuals on a case by case basis, because his identity is less wrapped up in black-and-white heroism. Though often, Sam’s moral triumphs come when he over-identifies with monsters, such that he’s able to inject and rely on his own subjectivity. And, look, Sam’s goals are, for not an insignificant portion of the show, to prevent the actual literal end of the world, which makes quite a lot of collateral relatively justifiable. But in the end, Sam’s world is just as insular and claustrophobic as Dean’s, with that same inevitably skewed sense of scale, in terms of putting his goals before other people. Sometimes, eg in s13, those goals shift from “prevent the end of the actual world” to “save my family” and that is something that it’s a lot less morally permissible to kill for.

This flaw is connected to another of Sam’s big problems: he’s altogether too willing to excuse, enable, and even participate in the patterns of harm that others, mostly Dean, engage in, especially in late seasons. Sam has developed a tendency to overcorrect against the involvement of his own perspective. Dean may have spearheaded the plan to trap and later kill Jack in 14.19-14.20, but Sam tricked him into the box, and that is a failing. Sam has adapted to survive, but he tends to externalize and project his own adaptations onto other people as well, even when they aren’t in his situation or don’t want to be: Jack, AU!Charlie, Gabriel, Kevin to some extent.

It’s a fascinating kind of thing, in which Sam’s tiny, tiny world is thrust against his tendency and even his need for big picture goals and idealizations. It leads to sometimes uncomfortable generalizations and moral justifications.

#sam and pragmatism #sam and forgiveness #sam and dean #14.19 #13.09 #i speaks #dean is typically too subjective #and sam is typically not subjective enough #Anonymous #sam and flaws

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meowmeowmessi · 3 years

Note

Was Dean really so abusive towards Sam through out the whole series?

I have been seeing some Dean hate a lot 😔 about him being oh so abusive to Sam. I know most of it probably because of season 9 gaslighting. That was so in character for him tho, like he will do anything to prevent Sam from dying. His whole character is protecting Sam, I’m not sayin what he did right in anyway, but I understand... he was desperate. And all the violence was when he was under the influence of the mark. I can’t seem to recalll anytime when he was downright abusive towards Sam. Was he?

Aw nonnie, don't feel down -- there's still plenty of Dean love to go around! *hugs*

Since you brought up s9, I'll start from there! Personally, I agree with you. I know it's a horribly unpopular opinion and Sam stans will crucify me for this one (which is something I find myself saying a lot lately.......), but I wasn't at all shocked or offended by what Dean did in s9. I mean, was it horrible? Yes. Fucked up? Oh yeah, definitely. Probably the most fucked up thing one brother has done to another in the whole show imo. But what were you expecting? It's Dean. Dean NOT stuffing an angel inside Sam to keep him alive and instead letting Death reap his soul would've been ooc as hell??? Jensen said so himself, Sam is the brother who has the strength to live on without Dean, not Dean (not that it means Sam loves him any less, ofc not. Just that they love in different ways). Once again, Dean gaslighting Sam was pretty horrifying, I won't deny it, but spn isn't a sunshine and rainbows kind of show. Sam and Dean's codependency is fucked up, but it's FICTION, so you can't apply your everyday logic to them. Now an argument can be made that the narrative during that arc was pretty skewed by being quite partial to Dean. Having Dean realize what he'd done wrong and apologize would've been nice and restored balance to said narrative, but we didn't get a chance to see that bc Dean went and took on the Mark, and the rest you know pretty well. Honestly? I kind of don't care anymore bc it's clear that after s10 (aka starting from s11) Dean has improved SO MUCH and I think his extra protectiveness of Sam in s11 was partially a result of the guilt Dean might have felt over the whole MoC deal and turning-into-a-demon-and-nearly-killing-Sam business. My humble opinion is that post s10 Dean has had significant growth and trying to hate on him by bringing up shit he did in the previous seasons is pretty juvenile.

For example: I stumbled upon a meta once about what a dick Dean is bc in s15 he tricked Sam into eating bacon by telling him it was actually veggie burger and equating it with the whole Gadreel mess and I was like ?????????? Are y'all high???????? I agree that a person's dietary preferences should be respected without question, but maybe take off your Literature Student Glasses for one goddamn second and try to see the scene for what it is? A big brother joking around and messing with his little brother to cheer him up? It's not that deep dude. Idk what to tell y'all, but siblings do be like that.

The Gadreel thing and the MoC issue aside, another thing bitter Sam stans bring up to paint Dean as "abusive" is the panic room incident of s4. Which is... pretty iffy, ngl. Bc when I was watching s4 I myself hated Dean (and Bobby) for putting Sam in the panic room without even telling him. It was pretty cruel. And while I STILL have gripes about it, I think it's just another example of how the show is fucked up, Sam and Dean's dynamic is fucked up (said with affection), and how Dean treats Sam like his possession. Sam is his. He gets to decide Sam's fate. He will revive Sam, he will (almost) kill Sam, and the authority to make those decisions is his, not Sam's. Bc once again, in Dean's eyes he pretty much owns Sam. After all, he's his little brother. Fucked up, yes, but you're kind of an idiot if you expected anything healthy out of these two.

And there's Dean hitting soulless Sam in s6 when he tells him there's something wrong with him. The thing is, Dean didn't give a shit about soulless Sam. None. Once he realized that Sam's soul was missing he was hell bent on getting it back, and he didn't give a flying fuck about the soulless version of his brother. And soulless Sam knew that. Imo Sam at that point was just an empty shell to Dean and he didn't care about hitting him and hurting him. Bc the one he really cared about was the Sam WITH his soul intact. Dean was positively BEAMING when Sam got his soul back and was acting like his usual empathetic self again and not the cold soulless one. And he was so so careful with him after Death erected the wall in his head. Hell, Dean temporarily died to make that deal with Death. How could you possibly say that Dean doesn't love Sam?

Other minor things that bitter Sam girls/Dean haters use to prove that Dean is "abusive" include: Dean punching Sam in s2 (in the episode where they meet Gordon for the first time. Can't recall the name of the episode rip). Dean was hurt and angry and grieving John, and yeah, maybe that's not any reason to hit Sam, but he's human. He's more prone to violence than Sam is. Doesn't make him abusive. Siblings hit each other all the time, dude. It ain't that big of a deal. And Dean even apologized afterwards. And Sam FORGAVE HIM. Same goes for Dean punching Sam in s7 imo. Anger born of worry and all that.

And lastly, one meta madness I've seen is how Sam flinches whenever Dean has an outburst of anger. Some people use this as proof that Dean (and throw John in the mix too why don't you -_-) abused Sam as a kid and that's why he reacts that way. Which is such utter bullshit lol. Sam has PTSD. He flinches at the sound of closing doors, when he hears sudden footsteps, and just any abrupt noise in general. It has nothing to do with Dean aBuSiNg him as a kid and everything to do with the trauma he suffered throughout his life as a hunter (and then there's the Cage. And the multiple times he's been sexually assaulted. And on and on and on...) (and the reason why Dean doesn't have the same reaction as Sam is bc the symptoms of PTSD are different for everyone, bc rest assured, he too has trauma).

This is just my personal opinion tho! You can think whatever you want, but for me, Sam and Dean's relationship really can't be judged based on our standards of "normal". The things they do to (and for) each other are all part of their codependency. So no, I don't think Dean is abusive to Sam. He's done shit that can be called abusive, sure, but Sam and Dean operate on a moral compass that's completely different from our own, and we have to consider their actions with that in mind.

#asks #also if anyone brings up demon!dean telling sam that it's his fault mary died I'll personally kick their ass #bc dean was a DEMON??? DEMONS LIE???? HE WAS LIT RALLY AIMING TO HURT SAM WITH HIS WORDS?????? BC HES A D E M O N????#DO U REALLY THINK DEAN WINCHESTER WOULD BLAME SAM FOR MARY'S DEATH #DO YOU REALLY #IF SO YOU DON'T KNOW DEAN #anti dean hate #bro I'm lucky I'm not popular otherwise I'd get cancelled so hard by those dean hating sam stans #not that I care bc if you hate dean but claim to love sam you're not a real fan of sam OR the show *shrug*#I'M SLOWLY -- PAINFULLY SLOWLY -- GETTING AROUND TO ANSWERING ASKS #also once again: these are just my opinions and you don't have to agree if you don't want to haha #sorry this is all over the place and rambley orz #ella learn to organize your thoughts challenge #dean winchester #sam and dean

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amwritingmeta · 3 years

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You don't think killing Dean the way they did was contradicting to his character arc and development?

Hello, lovely!

As the initial shock of watching Dean die is wearing off more with each passing day, I can tell you that no, I don’t think that killing Dean the way they did was contradicting to his character arc and development.

Let me explain.

And let me be clear, I’m basing this on my hopes and wishes for the narrative, for Dean, and they, in turn, sprung up from my reading of the narrative.

My reading has always, as all meta readings are, been wholly subjective, though I’ve striven to be objective, trying to base my reading in my understanding of narrative structure and possible production choices as much as possible. The initial shock after the finale came from how the delivery of Dean’s endgame stepped outside of what I wanted and had grown to expect in those weeks leading up to it, due to 15x18 and queer love suddenly being a stated part of the narrative.

Letting go of the idea of a long and happy life for Dean with Cas as a human on Earth, because that was simply the framework my brain invented to give them a happily ever after, I’d like to take a look at some of the other hopes and wishes I’ve had for Dean, in no particular order:

Dismantling the toxic masculinity ideal

Non-performance

Open communication and honesty

Self-acceptance leading to self-worth leading to self-actualisation

Integration

Clear sense of identity

Learning to let go of need for control

Learning to trust

Feeling deserving of happiness and embracing it

Ending the codependency

Teamwork and sharing responsibility/not feeling it’s all on him

Admitting to himself that what he longs for is to love and be loved

Believing in deserving to have a future

The world balanced out (no more firewall)

Putting the past to rest

Letting go of Protect Sammy as predominant purpose

Letting go of fear

No more Butch and Sundance/blaze of glory ending

Now, the more I think about all of these things in relation to S15 in general and the final three episodes in particular, the more those finale three episodes make me feel nothing short of delight for our characters. (sorry but it’s true) (I feel the distress of our family and it’s just horrifying but oh I do feel we need to take a breath together and calm down)

Here’s what I see. And what I see may come off as dismissive of people’s frustration and anger and disgust with the finale, but it’s not meant to be. I’ve always read this narrative how I described above, knowing that it’s impossible not to be subjective, but striving for objectivity.

Striving for objectivity by looking at what’s come before, the threads I’ve seen them pulling on, the overarching themes that have been consistent for fifteen years, the character traits that have been explored and narratively stated over and over again, and basing my analysis in these narrative constants.

So first, let us ask ourselves: was Dean’s death foreshadowed in S15?

The simple answer is that yes, it was.

It was foreshadowed by Amara saying that she wanted to release Dean from his anger, it was foreshadowed by Billie asking if it wasn’t time for the sweet release of death, and it was foreshadowed by the heart symbology peppered throughout the entire season.

Had it been coming for a long time?

Well, yes, it had. There were only two ways that his arc could end: him living or him dying, right? He’s died a lot, which is why I thought it should end in him living, finally, but let’s look at what the narrative tells us living constitutes:

fear (of losing his brother and of what’s around the next bend), as Dean admits in 15x17: he’s always afraid

pain, because the pain of losing Cas will never go away

Has Dean decided to deal with that? Yes, he has. He’s decided, by 15x20, to accept the loss, to look to the future, to not give up, to keep on fighting. He’s not even self-destructively looking for a case to distract him: instead he brings Sam to a freaking pie festival. Yeah? Dean is living his life.

This means that we’re shown him as having let go of toxic masculinity because he’s wholly non-performing at the start of 15x20, he’s openly communicating and being honest about the pain he feels over losing Cas, but as opposed to Chuck’s version of the “perfect ending” which was always tragic, where Dean losing Cas meant that he saw no purpose to living or fighting anymore, Dean takes that pain and is able to handle it because?

Because of Cas. Because of Dean internalising Cas’ view of him. Because of Dean being shown in 15x19 to grieve Cas, to want Cas back, to go through the motions (getting drunk etc.), only for him to realise (and yes the execution is lacking but I’m going to go with the narrative we have for the sake of this reading) that Cas isn’t coming back.

By the end of 15x19, Cas’ words have taken such hold that Dean not only eases up on control and is shown to confidently share the responsibility for de-powering Chuck by working as a well-oiled team machine with Jack and Sam - because he trusts them, he’s also symbolically allowed to fully integrate by refusing to kill Chuck, because his Shadow (toxic masculinity as passed along by John the Bad Father Figure) (John also has a good side but he had a very bad side, for sure) no longer holds any sway over Dean, and because of Cas’ words, because of Cas’ faith in him, through Cas’ love for all that Dean is, Dean is given the sense of self-worth needed to finally be able to move into self-acceptance, allowing him to self-actualise, to integrate.

Cas saved Dean’s life AND saved Dean from his crappy self-view. I mean. It’s kinda fucking remarkable that this reading is right there for the taking.

So here we have the narrative ticking boxes like JAYSUS, yeah?

Let’s look it:

Dismantling the toxic masculinity ideal

Non-performance

Open communication and honesty

Self-acceptance leading to self-worth leading to self-actualisation

Integration

Clear sense of identity

Learning to let go of need for control

Learning to trust

Feeling deserving of happiness and embracing it

Teamwork and sharing responsibility/not feeling it’s all on him

Believing in deserving to have a future

The world balanced out (no more firewall)

And this, all of it, is thanks to LOVE.

Because this is a story about love and... love.

So Dean being able to integrate thanks to Cas’ love is, to me, all about Dean opening himself up to the fact that what he wants, truly wants, and has always wanted (and needed, for that matter) is to be loved for who he is, and to allow himself to feel that very same unconditional love for another.

In the act of letting go of needing Cas back to somehow validate that love or validate Dean actually truly being deserving of receiving and giving love, we get the unconditional aspect of it underlined. There’s no dependency anymore. No fear attached to the emotion. Just the love itself, untouched by death. The healthy side to that profound bond that’s always kind of tripped these two up before. I mean. I think it’s kind of breathtaking.

Also, I’ve been told there’s an application that we see on Dean’s desk for him to get a job as a mechanic, which seems to me an underlining that Dean is looking to the future and in so doing is shown to feel deserving of happiness and embracing it. Something that I feel is established at the beginning of the episode, even without this detail, but is brought into focus thanks to it.

Dean doesn’t want to die. He has no desire to die. The implication being that he’s trying to make the best of what he’s got and is completely honest with himself about what he wants. Not owning a bar, but working on cars. The good side of John getting a nod, or so I would say. Especially poignant in an episode so heavily focused on Good Father Figures.

I haven’t seen the detail of this application for myself though, I just trust my sources. :)

Now we get to the meatier part of this reading: Dean and Sam.

What do we have left on the list of hopes and wishes of stuff to be addressed as pertaining to Dean?

We’ve got:

Ending the codependency

Putting the past to rest

Letting go of Protect Sammy as predominant purpose

Letting go of fear

No more Butch and Sundance/blaze of glory ending

I wonder if you might already be seeing where I’m going with this, but for good measure, let’s discuss the death scene and what it narratively results in for Dean and for Sam.

Dean and Sam end up in that barn because they’re two men who will not stand for harm coming to innocent lives, especially when those innocent lives belong to two little kids. This is who they are at their core.

Dean is killed by a vampire wearing a mask. Yeah. Someday perhaps I’ll make proper sense of it. Point is: Dean is impaled on a rusty nail that imbeds itself in his heart and sort of holds him together until the moment of his passing, giving him time to ask his brother to stay (zero performance and only vulnerability) and tell Sam exactly what Sam has always meant to him.

Which, for Dean, is vulnerability on steroids. Honesty times one thousand. In your face true identity flares of beauty.

This scene is stunning. When I watched it the second time around last Saturday I was blown away. Jensen makes this scene what it is, because it is such an absolute mirror of Dean’s scene with Cas and the differences to Jensen’s acting choices are paramount to the emotional significance of either. (oh Misha was extremely paramount to the declaration of love, don’t get me wrong, but here we have Jensen pivotally impactful, since he’s in both)

And through this mirroring we have two major threads of this narrative on display and effectively highlighted and tied up: the familial vs the romantic.

Because this is a story about love and... love.

The thing that I’ve been turning over in my head a lot is the codependency aspect here. I’ve had issues with it. Could it only be broken by Dean’s death?

And no, I don’t think that’s what’s happening here at all.

This moment is absolutely about the codependency breaking. In part. But it’s also about Dean going out bittersweetly, suddenly, without any glory or blaze, and it’s a very human, very real, very grounding moment to me for his arc: he didn’t expect it to be today, but it is.

*i’m seriously cry*

And Sam’s grief is so raw. I wish Sam had gotten to break away on his own. I’ll always wish that for him. That he could’ve seen his worth as a leader and leaned on that and on his love for Eileen, but Sam’s arc was always, always dependent on Dean’s progression, and this is what Dean’s arc needed in his final moment: clarity, honesty, trust, faith, letting go. A voicing of the fear, of the past, of what got them here, of the dependency - it was always you... and me - and both of them choosing, in the moment, to recognise the finality of it.

The entire show has revolved around these two men’s absolute inability to let go of each other and the stupidity and recklessness this inability has resulted in. Choice after choice serving to bring about the near apocalypses they’ve kept finding themselves in.

And reflecting itself in that has been the dependency Dean has felt for Cas’ presence, his annoyance and worry and fear whenever Cas has disappeared, how Dean’s progression has stopped in its tracks whenever Cas has been removed from the narrative.

So for this scene of the familial love allowing a letting go of that dependency to reflect itself once more so beautifully in how the romantic love allowed for a letting go of that dependency is kind of. I don’t even know. Everything glitters?

Dean finding peace ultimately has everything to do with having met, known and fallen in love with and having been loved by this angel of his.

But is that canon?

I mean, it’s subtextual canon, which is good enough for me, because it was all I ever expected and it’s such a blatant statement through the couples in love losing each other leading into Dean and Cas losing each other that there’s just no doubt in my mind how we’re meant to be understanding what these two men mean to each other, and from that draw the conclusions of what it is that’s influencing Dean’s moment of integration.

Does Dean’s death make a statement that happiness and love can only be found in death?

No. It really does not. Because that’s not what the narrative message is. Because Sam finds love and happiness by living his life. And I sincerely disagree with Sam being depicted as being depressed his whole life (the way Dean was with Lisa) because he lost his brother. Sure, there could’ve been pictures of all the found family when Sam is on his death bed, but he’s also thinking about the brother he lost and that’s simply a visual establishing of this fact. Could there have been more? Sure! But that doesn’t mean that all Sam cares about was Dean for all his life, living it in grief and loss.

Sam loves his son, helps his son, laughs with his son, is a good father figure to his son, and this thread is pulled on throughout the episode: the good father figure thread.

Dean’s goodbye to Sam isn’t just a brother saying goodbye to a brother.

It’s a father bidding farewell to his child. It’s a father gently relieved to not have to watch his son die. To get to go first. And yes, sure, that’s sad, but it’s also very human and real and says so much about their relationship.

Dabb era has hit the father/parental thread so hard that the Good Father thread running through this episode makes perfect sense to me.

Dean goes to Heaven not to find Cas, not expecting Cas to be there, but finding Cas there all the same (reward for letting go and having faith that if he’s meant to, and why wouldn’t he be, then he’ll see Cas again *headcanon*), and more than that, learning that Cas has made Heaven what it is now, moved Heaven away from trapping souls in endless memory loops (which was benevolent enough, but completely missed the point of what it means to be human) and that now there’s discovery and exploration and more life to be lived, because Heaven is overflowing with free will, with choice, with all the possibility for longevity and happiness.

The eternity that Dean deserves.

Created for him by Cas.

Cas ensuring Dean’s death is not an ending, but a beginning. That it’s not a prison for Dean’s mind, but instead a homecoming, filled with the prospect of reconnecting with all the people Dean has ever cared about, ever loved.

I mean, the fact that Cas’ prevailing faith in Jack has enabled all this is like strobe lights for the fucking brain.

And the irony is that while I focused entirely on how Cas needed to be grounded and choose to live a human life on Earth, the narrative had other plans (okay yeah the writers) and instead brought Dean to Heaven, and immortality.

It takes away the final obstacles for giving these two a happily ever after.

It also reflects itself in how Mary, in Heaven, is “complete”. She’s with John. She’s at peace. She’s happy. And who have always been fairly strongly tied (through mixtapes and whatnot) to Mary and John Winchester? Yeah.

Also, Cas the angel will never age and will never die, and him with human Dean, watching Dean grow old and die only to go visit Dean in his little Heaven always made me depressed. Human!Cas took care of that, but left the Heaven conundrum wide open. And now it’s just gloriously fixed.

And, speaking of, Cas got to FIX HEAVEN. And he’s fixing it together with his son. All of that faith, all of that struggle, completely rewarded. And Cas building that Heaven in wait for Dean to arrive, because if Dean hadn’t died in that barn (take me back to the night we met...) Dean would’ve died at some point, and Cas can wait, he just wants to make sure there’s happiness waiting for Dean when he arrives. I’m sorry but OMFG. I’m just so happy for our Castiel!!

Could Dean not know happiness on Earth?

I think he was on his way. I think there would always be that pain and that fear, but he was ready to accept that and make the most of it and live his life. Only... his heart is missing, because his heart went away, and perhaps there’s this chance that he’ll find it again, because he always has before, but he doesn’t know, and he doesn't expect it, and that’s okay, he can wait, and then he’s brought to Heaven, and there it is, and he smiles that smile and Heaven is basically complete apart for one final piece.

Because of course Dean would wait for Sam.

Now. I realise this is my reading of this narrative. No one needs to accept it as the begin all, end all reading. I’m only hoping that it will offer a counterweight to the absolute and utter negativity being bandied around as the only true begin all, end all, because I do not see it or believe that it’s all there is to this finale.

There’s beauty here. And discounting it, at least the possibility of it, even if it’s not exactly what I’ve laid out in this reply, because of frustration of not getting textual Destiel is not doing anyone any good. We got subtextual Destiel, we got subtextual bisexual Dean, and it’s confirmed. To my mind, it’s confirmed.

That’s everything I ever dared expect. And that expectation came solely from how clear the subtext has always been, how invested the writers have seemed in it, and the actors too.

And Cas is canonically queer.

Which is fucking amazing and truly enormous and I’ll talk very gently about why I don’t feel his death was a case of BYG in a separate post, but Cas is alive in the narrative as it’s been presented to us, and he’s in love with Dean and they get to be together in the Heaven Dean deserves, remodelled for Dean by Cas. If that’s not the beginning of a happily ever after, then I don’t know what is!

Thanks for asking, love. I’ve been meaning to write all this down and have spent the afternoon doing so. It’s quite cathartic!

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supernova-cas · 3 years

Text

S01 E01 PILOT

Okay so! starting a rewatch and I thought I’d do a little missing scene from each ep. So here we go starting out strong with some Dean on the road. You can read it here on tumblr or here on AO3!

The road stretches ahead of him, long and empty and Dean speeds up, hits the accelerator, trying to lose himself in the motion, synch up with the car and just glide. But it’s getting harder to focus now, when his destination isn’t some monster or creature from a nightmare. No, he’s not going anywhere so easy.

It’s stupid really, to feel like this and Dean knows it. He’s dealt with much worse than a trip to a college campus. This time last week he’d been over in New Orleans, moments away from being stabbed by an intangible knife. He ignores the slight pain that lingers in his side. As far as hunting injuries go, well it hardly qualifies. Point was Dean wasn’t a kid anymore. He was old enough to hunt on his own now and definitely old enough for this.

And yet, if he was a kid, if they were both kids, he wouldn’t have to be doing this. If they were just a few years younger, Sam would still be right there with him. Sitting next to him and spouting some stupid fact about old lore or just burying his head in one of those trash novels he pretended he never read. They would be together, and for all he knew, if Sam was here, if things were different, if they all stayed together this wouldn’t be an issue at all.

But it’s been years since any of Sam’s shit had cluttered up the backseat. The car’ all Dean’s now, his tapes in the front, his gear in the back, the car was big enough to contain everything he owned and more. All Dean’s possessions, packed into her tight. He wonders if Sam drives. Not that he’d need a car to contain his belongings anymore. No, Sammy’s got a new home now. Proper shelves to line his books up on instead of the corner of the trunk, clothes hanging in a closet instead of piled up on top of a false bottom opening. Yeah, Sam doesn’t need any of the space he and Dean had spent so long arguing over. They’d squabbled for years, each trying to get a little more storage space. And Dean won.

To the victor the spoils. An empty car with all the room in the world. He doesn’t have enough to fill it.

He’s been trying, definitely. Even just now in New Orleans he’d picked up a couple of pretty pieces, a silver knife and some more bullets. His collection is growing, he’s got rifles and handguns now, small knives and machetes, bags and bags of rock salt. Enough iron he’s pretty sure he’s causing some kind of disturbance in the Earth’s natural magnetism. He’s even collected some books of his own. In the trunk is a mixture of a couple of old lore books and some classic literature. Dean may not be going to some fancy college but he sure loves to read. It’s a ragtag little library, taken from old garage sales he passed or the occasional thrift store.

He’s not sure what John would think of them. It isn’t something he’s mentioned. Not because he’s keeping it a secret from him! He just hasn’t had reason to bring it up. It’s not a distraction though, he has that answer locked and loaded. He barely ever reads them, they’re just there in the car. For the long nights when the cards are all frozen and his hustling hasn’t been quite enough to afford to buy dinner and a motel room. When he’s lying back in the impala, waiting to be exhausted enough that sleep overtakes him, sure, he’ll turn a few pages.

Dean passes another mile marker and tries not to see it as another chance to turn back now.

He wonders where Sam sleeps now. If he’s got a little bedside table, he can put his books on before he falls asleep. If his room has thick curtains, if he never has to ignore neon lights flowing through thin curtains or broken blinds. He’s got a home now, the address Dean is driving to, he doesn’t have to sleep in a car.

He wonders if Sam has a car.

The end of the cassette brings him back and for a moment he considers pulling over right there to flip it around. There aren’t any other drivers out here at this time. But if he does pull over, he’s not sure how long it’ll be until he can bring himself to keep going again.

So, he drives in silence. It’s not too far. Which is a good thing. He wants to be there already. And maybe if he tells himself that one more time it’ll make it true.

He slows down as he gets off the highway. Into the residential area of the college town. Sammy’s home neighborhood. He hates how little he hates it.

The impala is silent as he parks her right in front of Sam’s home. She’s beautiful and brilliant and he’s not sure why suddenly she feels small.

A quick knock doesn’t garner any response and Dean is too curious not to take the chance, to test Sam’s defenses.

There aren’t any.

His door is locked and that’s it. He’s not sure what he expected. Sammy definitely doesn’t want to have to explain to all his college friends a line of salt in the doorway, he doesn’t want to carve a sigil in the doorpost. But this, it’s a simple lock Dean gets open in moments. A challenge even Sam would be able to master without trouble.

He moves through the apartment quietly, looking around. It’s bigger than he thought it would be. And there’s so much stuff. He wonders how much of it is Sam’s if he actually owns all this. He probably should have been more focused on his surroundings but with all this, well it was easy to get distracted. Sue him.

So, Sam’s attack takes him by surprise. Not enough of a surprise that Dean doesn’t react well, but enough to get him off balance for a moment. Sam still fights well. Or at least, well for Sam. Dean’s still got the clear advantage as he shoves him right into the other room. The light from the window (framed by thick curtains, he notices) illuminates his face for a moment and Sam falters. Dean gets him pinned down in moments.

“Whoa, easy tiger.” He manages, trying to catch his breath.

“Dean?” Sam’s voice is shock, but not instantly hostile and Dean can’t help the laugh that escapes.

“You scared the crap out of me!” Sam’s voice is his tried and true bitching about being beaten tone, and Dean falls into his own role easily.

“That’s ‘cause you’re out of practice.”

He’s goading Sam and it works, always does. It actually surprises him how fast Sam is, how quickly their roles are reversed.

“Or not,” he admits. Sam hits him twice and Dean rolls his eyes. “Get off of me.”

Sam gets off of him and extends his hand to help Dean. Sam pulls him up and then stands back.

“What the hell are you doing here?” Sam’s voice is upset now and it’s suddenly too real. Sam’s no longer the brother Dean reaches to poke and annoy in the car, he’s no longer an abstract figure too far away to reach. Sam is here, right here in front of Dean and he is angry.

“Well, I was looking for a beer.” He tries with a grin, grabbing hold of Sam for a moment.

“What the hell are you doing here?” Sam repeats and Dean needs to tell him.

“Okay.” He answers. No jokes this time. “We need to talk.”

“Uh, the phone?” Sam asks, eyebrow raised.

“If I’d’a called, would you have picked up?” His tone is light but it’s a serious question and they both know it. Dean thinks for a moment that Sam won’t answer and for another, worse moment that he will.

But he doesn’t get the chance. The lights flick on and Dean spins to see the blonde woman at the switch. She’s pretty, too pretty to be in Sam’s apartment anyway, and more then anything else she’s an interjection into the situation. A distraction and Dean pounces.

“Jess.” Sam speaks up next to him. “Hey. Dean, this is my girlfriend, Jessica.”

“Wait, your brother, Dean?” she asks and where ever that’s going Dean wants to cut it off before it has a chance to begin the trip.

“Oh, I love the smurfs.” He gestures to her crop top and he can practically feel the disdain and anger rolling off the two others in the room. That’s fine. He expected that. “You know, I gotta tell you. You are way out of my brother’s league.”

Jessica looks at him like he’s just confirmed Sam’s reasoning for leaving in a single moment.

“Just let me put something on.”

No. He isn’t staying, they aren’t staying. This isn’t some long conversation to be had. And Sammy definitely didn’t want his girlfriend in on it.

“No, no, no, I wouldn’t dream of it.” He says with an easy grin. “Seriously. Anyway, I gotta borrow your boyfriend here, talk about some private family business. But, uh, nice meeting you.”

“No.” Sam speaks up and Dean watches as he walks away from him, as he goes to put his arm around Jessica.

“No whatever you want to say you can say it in front of her.”

Dean looks at him for a moment. He hadn’t anticipated this. But he can’t very well walk away now.

“Okay. Um.” He looks at them straight on, trying to order his thoughts. “Dad hasn’t been home in a few days.”

“So, he’s working overtime on a Miller Time shift.” Sam says, and his words are heavy and disgusted. His hold on Jessica seems to tighten. “He’ll stumble back in sooner or later.”

Dean ducks his head. Trying to let that one go. It’s not that he’s wrong exactly, it’d happened before. But it wasn’t something they’d say. Not like this. And besides this time isn’t like that at all. This time is different. This time, John is in trouble. And Dean’s not going to let him down. He’s going to get his baby brother and he’s going to get the family together and safe. He looks back up at Sam, his gaze hard as he says,

“Dad’s on a hunting trip. And he hasn’t been home in a few days.”

#my writing #mine #scene fill #fjksdakjlfdskl i hope people see this #i'd love to hear some thoughts #or if anyone wants to read future ones?

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defenderrosetyler · 3 years

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APHS: Chapter 4

A/N: Chapter 4 is finally here! Thanks to @flamencodiva for my Beta as well as some ideas! She also has a companion fic to this! The Frog Princess! WC: 2162 TW; Blood Mention

Storybrooke Time seemed to pass rather quickly since Graham’s death. Emma had become a permanent resident in Storybrooke, taking over Graham’s position as Sheriff of Storybrooke. Back at home, Sam was still arguing with Ruby. What did this woman not understand? Sam didn’t want to be with her anymore, especially when Sam heard that she had been sleeping around with other men. Besides Sam’s constant arguments with Ruby, which were growing annoying and tiresome, Sam was attempting to try and repair what relationship he had with Y/N. He’d noticed Dean was trying to help out Amaya, the young woman who owned the Amphibian Emporium. He knew that those two had a rocky relationship, especially when the brothers had dinner at Granny’s as usual when they weren’t eating at their own apartments after a long day’s work.

“How are things with Y/N?” Dean asks, changing the subject of Sam talking about him and Amaya. The elder brother knew Sam was finally kicking Ruby out of his apartment and made him feel a little better. Yes, Sam and Y/N had their arguments. Hell, even he and Amaya had arguments, but something told him there was a connection between Sam and Y/N. “Haven’t really spoken to her since she came into Granny’s the night Graham died.” He admits with a shrug. “You still having those crazy-ass dreams?” Sam asks his younger brother. Dean had been having nightmares and hearing voices when he slept at night. Sam didn’t want to tell anyone yet, but he had them too. The dreams he had were different from Dean’s. But both of them had been spending more time with the Mayor’s son. Dean rubbed the back of his neck, desperately wanting to change the subject. “I picked up extra work,” He commented. This made Sam blink his eyes. “Besides working at the garage and working as a sub gym teacher, you picked up another job?” Sam asks in shock. Dean hesitated a moment too long, which made Sam sit up a little straighter in his chair. “This is the part where you tell me where you're working?” Sam huffed impatiently. “Yes, I took another job,“ Dean mutters after several moments of silence. Trying to brush off the subject.

The anger in Sam's face radiated with heat. Yes, they had funds to owe Rowena, but now Dean had to get another job? “Listen, don't worry about me, Sam, alright?” Dean replied with a simple shrug.

“You-You’re kidding, right?” Sam scoffed, running a hand over his face in an attempt to calm down his temper. Dean was clearly trying to brush him off, but Sam wasn't letting him hide a secret from him.

“What on Earth could you possibly be doing to help with work, Dean? I'm already busting my ass as it is, with what little work I have.” Dean was now starting to become irritated now. His own face grew warm as his anger built. Why wouldn't Sam drop this?

“You said don't worry about you?” Sam continues, seeing Dean's face change, hoping this push would be what he needed to say to get Dean to tell him why he took on extra work. Dean's arms crossed his chest. Clearly, he wasn't revealing why.

“Dean, I'm your brother!” Sam says, raising his voice into a yell. “Why won't you tell me?”

Dean's eyes narrowed, his chest rising and falling as he took shaky breaths. “Just drop it, Sam!” He says through clenched teeth.

Sam wasn't dropping this. Crossing his own arms, Sam's hazel eyes stared into his brother's emerald green ones. Waiting for an answer. Dean stood his ground. Being family was one thing, but did he have to reveal every little part of his life to Sam? Sure, Sam had secrets from him. Why couldn't Dean have this? Seeing that Sam wasn't standing down either, Dean scoffed, glaring at him.

“The other job is because Amaya needed my help.” Dean says irritably, “She was behind on her rent, and Gold was threatening to shut her down!” Sam stood from his chair, pulling at his hair. Groaning both inwardly as well as vocally. “Is this because you can’t keep your promises to her?” He says with a scoff. “Or is this you trying to impress her, now that she’s with Trenton and not you?” Dean groaned, rolling his eyes before standing to switch all the garage lights off. His body tensed hearing his name. “Do me a favor, Sammy?” Dean says, in a miffed tone, “Worry about your own life for once and work on getting Ruby out of your apartment.” Apparently, this topic was closed for the time being. ------ Enchanted Forest “Gabriel was looking for you,” Bobby, the stable master, says as he watches the younger prince approach riding Onyx. Sam felt exhausted from riding from the Charmings. Hearing that the Fairy, who was head of Winchester Castle archives, was looking for him? Hopefully, he was bearing good news. On his way to the archives, however, his mother and father apparently had other ideas. His father cleared his throat as his younger son passed by without greeting. With an internal groan, Sam turned to greet his father, bowing as a sign of respect, even if it was just a nod of his head. “Samuel, I have someone I would like to introduce you to,” John says, placing a welcoming hand on the woman who stood beside him. The woman had brunette hair that fell just above her breasts. Her gown was a deep burgundy red in the Irish style that flowed to the floor. It was laced in the front with black ribbon trim. The ends of the sleeves, on both elbows, down the front in a thin line dropping from the neckline, were covered in a soft black fabric.

On top of the black material were delicate silver swirls, making the dress shimmer in the sunlight. The brunette gave a short yet polite curtsy as John introduced her, “Son, say hello to Princess Ruby of Avrinyth on the Isle of Dagua.” “A pleasure to meet you, your highness.” Ruby greeted, giving Sam a bright smile. “Your father had told me so much about you in his letters, but let me assure you, your portraits do not do you justice. You are more handsome in person.” She says in almost a flirtatious tone. Sam cleared his throat, feeling awkward and uncomfortable. He knew that Ruby had a reputation for sleeping with other men and even being a mistress for some of them. Then again, those are just rumors possibly, but who knows. Sam had other things to worry about right now. Still, remembering his manners again, Sam gave a short yet polite nod. “Forgive me, Princess Ruby, but I have a meeting that I’m late for.” He says, moving to rush off before his father could stop him Watching his youngest son run off down the corridor, he sighed, hanging his head as he looked apologetically at Ruby. “I am so sorry for my son’s behavior. It appears that his mind is still hooked on making sure Odette returns back to the palace alive. He claims to have found her but has no proof to his claims.” Ruby offers the king a kind smile, but something seems a bit off to him. The way her eyes shined, almost mischievously, had King John wondering if Sam had the right idea about her. “First loves,” the princes said, “are very hard to forget, Your Highness.” The king couldn’t help but agree as he turned to face his wife, “indeed they are, young Princess. Indeed they are.” “John, why don’t you have one of the guards escort the princess to her room? Allow her time to get settled in from such a long journey.” After a pause, seeing the same glint in Ruby’s eyes as her husband had. “We’ll all meet down for dinner shortly.” Mary smiled, linking her arm with her husband. The king cleared his throat, nodding at one of the nearby guards. John and Mary left with a slight bow in Ruby’s direction before leaving towards their chambers. Once alone, John cleared his throat, keeping his gaze forward as he talked in hushed tones to his queen. “Her reputation precedes her,” John says, clearing his throat, “She is indeed a beautiful woman, but there is also the rumor about her sharing another man’s bed.” “That rumor may be true, but we have our kingdom to worry about,” Mary adds, stopping just outside their door before heading inside. “Dean will take over, you know this, Mary,” John sighed. “I have a feeling that our eldest will help bring another kingdom into our fold.” Mary blinked in a bit of amazement, finding herself speechless as she looked at her husband. “John, you honestly believe that the kingdom of Irinica will agree to such a match?” Opening the door to their chambers, allowing Mary to enter first, John nodded. “You know as well as I that Dean made a promise to help the Princess, after all,” he says, pausing for a moment, “A promise given is a promise kept. And I can’t help but feel that there is more to the Kingdom of Irinica. As if we’ve all forgotten something important about it.” ---- Storybrooke The argument with Dean had Sam still fuming. Worry about himself for once and not his elder brother’s issues? Weren’t they a family? Wasn’t family supposed to help each other? Sam couldn’t go home. He knew all too well that Ruby hadn’t moved out yet. She’d barely touched any of her belongings. Sam wasn’t in the mood to even touch her things. If he had his way about it, he’d toss everything in a box, leaving it outside his door. True, he and Dean had spent an afternoon packing her clothes. However, that was as far as it went. Trying to think of something to do, Sam happened upon an idea. There was a specific person he wanted to visit. Well, their grave anyway. With a heavy heart, Sam makes his way to Storybrooke Cemetery. Across town, Y/N stood in the office with Rowena and her son. “Rowena, please, I’ve been working hard to pay off my debt. You can’t just make me leave. How else am I going to make my payments to pay you back!” She argued. Trying to hold back the emotion in her voice. A mix of sadness and begging was in her tone. “If you had just agreed to marry me when I first offered, sweetheart,” Crowley says, leaning against the filing cabinet, arms crossed as his gaze focused on her. “Then, perhaps we wouldn’t be in this little predicament.” Since Crowley had brought Y/N into Rowena’s office during this entire conversation, she had been absently scribbling on her notes. Not writing anything in particular, but it made her seem distracted and uninterested. The girl had been offered her son as a bargain. In exchange, Rowena would pay Y/N’s Father’s funeral and hospital bills. However, the stubborn girl had refused, resulting in their agreement of Y/N working off her debt. “I’ve said it over and over, but you just don’t get it!” Y/N shouted, her tone becoming more clipped and irritated. This time, her anger was poised at Crowley instead of his mother. “I will not marry you. You can offer me all the money in the world. However, my answer remains the same. No.” For the first time since Y/N had entered her office, Rowena’s gaze lifted from her writing, tone flat, almost as a threat. “Then dearie, I suggest you find employment elsewhere. Just because you don’t have a job doesn’t mean I’ll find ways to make sure the money you owe is repaid.” “I’m not as bad as you claim me to be.” Crowley tries to add as a final plea for her to see reason and accept the bargain. “I’ll be a good husband for you.” Clearly, Y/N’s words were not clear enough for them to understand. With an aggravated scoff, she glared at the pair. “Use my last paycheck to go towards whatever I owe you,” She snapped. Storming out of the building, Y/N did all she could to wait till she was away from prying eyes before the tears flowed freely from her eyes. There was only one place she wanted to be, somewhere she knew she could be alone. Her father’s grave. As she made her way through the cemetery, someone was sitting in front of it. They were whispering as if getting things off his chest. Approaching the figure in the dark, Y/N was shocked as she looked at the man sitting beside her Fathers grave. “Sam?” She lets out in a breath, “what on earth are you doing here.” Sam looked nervous that he’d been caught out here, but all he could respond with were two words. “Evening, Y/N.”

#APAHS #APHS Ch 4.#OUAT FIC #SAM x OC reader #SPN Fanfic

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