#achilles and his pal

[bihexualandferal]

And historians will call them:

✨Rivals✨

✨Enemies✨

✨Hatemates✨

✨Nemeses✨

Anything but ❤️lovers❤️

~History hates lovers~

#my bf and I made this about edgeworth and phoenix wright #NaruMitsu #meme #shipping meme #enemies to lovers #parody #lol #gay #achilles and his pal #sappho and her friend #mlm #wlw #lesbian #phoenix wright #wrightworth #and they were roommates #ace attorney

[sorenhugo]

You know what fuck you *travels back in time to join a revolution and we fight and drink and share homoerotic tension. We have one last drink and song with our buddies and try our best to defend ourselves and tend to the wounded with our cravats but we end up dying together in each others’ arms all bloodied but looking into each others’ eyes.*

#les mis #les mis memes #enjoltaire #gay memes #tumblr memes #hamilton memes #historical gays #and they were roommates #omg they were roommates #close friends #historians will say they were close friends #achilles and his pal #sappho and her friend

[sunnyspeaches]

wake up babe, new prophecy just dropped

the prophecy:

#patroclus #song of achilles #i am not okay #greek myth memes #greek mythology #achilles and his pal

[objectiveunknown]

I like that there is not a single heterosexual in any of the paintings of Patroclus’ death.

Not even the fucking horses, tell me I’m wrong.

#gay #achilles #achilles and his pal #patroclus #old paintings

[hedgehology]

Historians will still call them besties.

🛒omg they were tomb mates! sticker by hedgehology

#hedgehology #etsy uk #etsy #omg they were tomb mates #historic mysteries #historians will say they were close friends #cowboy frog #capybara #yee (and i can’t stress this enough) haww #yeehaw #lesbian pride #lesbian flag #lesbian problems #queer erasure #queer history #sappho and her friend #achilles and his pal #just gals being pals #just dudes being bros #stickers #queer representation #queer pride #cowboycore

[ashenpumpkin]

#196 #r/196 #funny #literature #little mermaid #lgbt #lgbtq #achilles and his pal

[frogwithastrawberry]

Just finished Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller and OH MY GOD

I AM HAVING SO MANY THOUGHTS

(Also Spoiler Warning for the end of the book)

So, it's in Patroclus's POV, right?

Meaning that he describes people

I've noticed that when he describes women, he describes them with things relating to nature, or emotions, things that one may find beautiful, but not attractive

However he describes men as stronger things, for example he compares Hector's muscles to a temple of the gods, which are always crafted to be the best things around, the most beautiful, and to represent the gods themselves: the most severe of humans, their worst faults, their best talents, and more often than not thekr best looking

I just think that it's a more subtle way of showing his sexuality. You don't see that a lot in LGBTQ novels, especially romance ones, it's usually moreso just "Hi! I'm gay! That's it!" I really like the subtle influence of it on his daily life.

And now: Another musing from Song of Achilles, from the point of view of someone familiar with the myth.

So, we all know about the Achilles heel, right? There's a tendon named after it and everything. It's a popular metaphor for someone's weakest point. But it gets that name literally, because when Achilles was a small child, a newborn, Thetis dipped him into the River Styx, the river of hatred essentially. This dip made him completely unharmable, unless someone hit his heel.

In the book he dies from a strike to his mid back. This wouldn't work with the myth, as there's no way Thetis could have held him there. However, it's also a spot that is covered by his armor. It would be nearly impossible to hit if he was standing, even with the breath of a god guiding the arrow. But that's part of what makes the heel so important. The heel is, yes, exposed and makes more sense logically to hit, but it's also (in my opinion) a show of luck and recklessness.

Paris had great luck in hitting the heel, with it being such a small target, but Achilles, if he were in his right mind and not consumed by grief of his own fault, would have also probably thought better than having his weak point exposed to where a god would be hiding. Or at least, where Archers would be hiding, since it's pretty much impossible to hit such a small target with something as large as a sword or a spear. It would have to be an arrow, and I think it would have been cool if the book incorporated that. Or if the book had the river god actually hit him, since he wouldn't have been wounded from it. But there's also the really cool recurring thing of this managing to actually follow this myth by having Patroclus's death, like Brieses said, be his own fault. Patroclus would do anything for Achilles, and Achilles was too consumed by pride that took over to full the numbness that took place when he became desensitized to death and injury. And there's also the fact that: there is no indication of Achilles noticing this. He believes that Brieses's words are just the words of a madwoman, and ignores them in favor of stoking the fire that's his anger. But if he had put thought into this, used the brain that's part of why he was called the beat of Greeks, he'd have noticed this. His death wouldn't have been avoidable, since that's how prophecies work, but it may have at least been honorable .

Anyways I may reblog and add more at some point. ALSO DISCLAIMER: I know that there's so many versions of this myth, that's the version that I read. It may not line up with everyone else's versions that they've read, but that's just the beauty of old mythology.

#song of achilles #madeline miller #greek mythology #achilles #patroclus #achilles and patroclus #achilles and his pal #my musings #just some thoughts #little things #patrochilles #Song of Achilles analysis

[tacosaurusrex]

Me, just having read the Song of Achilles and doing a bunch of research because hyperfocus, hearing we get to read about Greek Mythology is class:

Oh hey fun! Let me check if there’s anything about Achilles and Patroclus and…

“Achilles and his best friend, Patroclus-“

*internal screaming*

#achilles and his pal #gay erasure #achilles and patroclus #erasure like this is my achilles heel

[one-coming-is-enough]

were achilles and patroclus real ?? also what do you think of Greek myths

I do not envy the Greeks their family life, I'll tell you that. I know Zeus has been sniffing 'round Mother for a few thousand years, the old dog, but She usually smacks him down pretty hard. Sometimes when I'm hanging out with Dionysus and Apollo and Hermes, I wonder what it would be like if She had accepted. Like, would My life be any easier? Would the world be any better?

I'll tell you, I really feel for poor Helen in that one. Daughter of Zeus, doesn't get a say in anything, she's just passed around like a baton in a relay race. Maybe they should have listened to what the Actual Child of a Deity wanted instead of hanging everything on some horny prince's reckoning. Or just not fought over the golden apple in the first place. I mean, they're a pantheon! Nobody thought to wonder where that apple came from or what? At least Eve had the excuse of being literally born yesterday.

Anyway, all of those stories are just as real as Mine are. I appreciate the faith that some of My followers have in declaring that the stories of Me and My family and My people are the only real ones, but the fact is that they're all pretty much as real as each other.

The faith that I value the most doesn't come from people not having a choice in who to worship, or not thinking they have a choice; it's from choosing Me and My teachings freely because you believe that they're the Right Way to Go. That the things I say will help you live a better, kinder life and make the world around you better.

Enjoy your stories of ancient lovers. I hope that they inspire you to love those around you just as much or better.

#good omens rp #achilles and patroclus #achilles and his pal #greek mythology

[matthew-zard]

I have a question about archaeologists and historians, is the reason why some say “they were just really good friends” is because they’re afraid of their funding being cut because they found gay shit.

#science #gay #archaeologists #archaeology #history #histories #question #questions #Achilles and his pal #sappho and her friend

[causeofchernobyl]

that one scene in hamlet

Hamlet: yeah we bros, but I’d let you bang me

Horatio: SIR!?

#shitpost #hamlet prince of denmark #shakespeare #shakespeare memes #incorrect shakespeare #incorrect quotes #hamlet #hamlet x horatio #roomates #they just friends #Just like Achilles and his pal #tragic danish boyfriends #horatio #shakesqueer

[jacqcrisis]

CONGRATS ON ENDING ANOTHER WONDERFUL FIC I will miss this. That being said I'm not entirely convinced Charon didn't slip Pat a hundy for that diagnosis.

Thank you <3<3<3

Also, I like that you can read whatever you want into Patroclus' conclusion. Did he actually not find anything? Did he have a change of heart? Did he have a conversation with Charon on their walk to go pick up a dead guy? Is Hermes actually more like gen 3 synths where he can develop emotions and attachments like human beings or is he just broken in some manner? Did Pat just do Charon a solid cause he realized his fellow old lonely ghoul is down bad and, you know what, at least one of them needs to be getting laid?

Who knows. But what you should know is that Pat absolutely comes back to Hermes and Charon being aggressively cutesy in his backyard and regrets every single decision he's made up until that point.

#fall out hades au #24 hour self imposed embargo is over #i have what i consider canon #but it's whatever you want #even charon doing manual labor in exchange for pat 'not fixing' his synthetic pal #i also like to think when pat gets reunited with achilles #that he completely just drops hermes having a problem #he never brings it up again #never asks about how its going #he impossibly found his long lost love #so the fucking robot man can be in love too for all he cares

[ghoulishtomato]

These have incredible "Sappho and her friend" energy.

I guess the male equivalent would be "Achilles and his pal"- which is extremely fitting considering Octavius' whole deal (just pretend Achilles isn't Greek instead of Roman for a second 💀).

#night at the museum #natm #natm jedediah #natm octavius #jedtavius #natm jedtavius #natm 3 #secret of the tomb #natm 2 #battle of the smithsonian #jedediah x octavius #octavius x jedediah

[johaerys-writes]

Would you be interested in sharing some of your fav books/scholars/academics/papers on The Iliad?

Hello! And thank you for this ask!! Basically, my research on Homer focuses a lot on Achilles and his relationship with Patroclus; I sometimes read works that are about the Iliad in general, but most of it is with Patroclus and Achilles in mind. But I do often come across interesting works on the Iliad as a whole, so I'll list some of them here. I have a lot of stuff to share, I'll keep it as brief as I can because I don't want to overwhelm anyone lol.

Books

As far as books go, I have several different translations of the Iliad, and most of the time each translation has its own introduction, sometimes by another classicist. Those are a great place to start. My favourites are Caroline Alexander's Iliad translation, and the introduction she wrote herself. I like Caroline Alexander's work in general, including her book on the Iliad The War That Killed Achilles (which my pal Baejax sent me bc I couldn't find it anywhere here <3 <3), because her writing is clear, straightforward and informative. Her translation is my go to translation at the moment because I like how faithful it is to the original Greek, it's the one I keep next to my bedside and which is full of bookmarks and notes LOL.

Another favourite is Robert Fagles' translation, with an introduction by Bernard Knox (who also wrote an excellent introduction to Robert Fagles' translation of the Aeneid). Even though Robert Fagles' translation isn't as close to the original as others, I love it because it is just so beautiful. It is definitely the one with the most staying power if you ask me, some passages are just chef's kiss. Bernard Knox's intro is also super informative (although he doesn't really go into Patroclus' and Achilles' relationship), and when he supplements his analysis with Fagles' gorgeous text it's just a wonderful experience.

Another translation that I recommend to anyone who can read modern Greek is the one by N. Kazantzakis & G. Kakridis, I think it's THE iconic Greek translation if you ask me. It has a lot of idiomatic language and expressions and it might not be as easy to get into as other Greek translations are, but it's truly beautiful and lyrical and it is entirely written in 17-syllable lines in iambic metre, adapting Homer's dactylic hexameter to modern Greek. Verse translations aren't really a thing for most English translations, which is a shame if you ask me. I think it's pretty much the only translation I've read so far that really invites you to read it out loud, as the original work was intended.

I do have Emily Wilson's translation as well but I haven't read it yet (I KNOW, SHAME ON ME), I really want to give it my full attention and I just haven't had the time yet. But I've read bits of the introduction and also parts of the translation and so far I love them. I hope to be back with a more informed opinion once I've actually read it LOL

Scholars

I have to admit that I don't follow any specific scholar religiously. I tend to read whatever catches my interest. That being said, I do love Emily Wilson's work and I've read several of her articles and papers, I think they're really informative and well-written. When she was doing the promotion for her Iliad translation on Twitter I read a lot of the stuff she posted and they were all great. My favourite was her interview with Madeline Miller which you can read here. I also liked this review of her Iliad translation that I read recently, written by Stephanie Mc Carter. Basically, I follow her on Twitter and read the articles she posts, and some are very interesting. I also went to see her in person when she gave a lecture in Athens in October, it was really good but unfortunately it isn't online anymore so I can't link it :(

I also really like watching Madeline Miller interviews on Youtube, I think I've watched every single one that's out there and even though some of them are brief or repetitive because interviewers usually ask her the same questions, I do think she always has something interesting to says both related to her books/writing but also the Iliad and the Odyssey that have inspired her. There are two interviews in particular that I like, this one which is more about TSOA and the Iliad, and this one which is more about Circe and the Odyssey. I genuinely enjoy listening to her a lot, I find it very calming.

My friend @darlingpoppet recently introduced me to the work of Celsiana Warwick, and I've really enjoyed reading her stuff!! Particularly this one which is about conjugal bonds and the homoerotic subtext of the Iliad, and this one which is about gender and kleos in the Iliad. Good stuff, and I look forward to reading more!

Papers

There are a few papers about Achilles and Patroclus that I really like and that I go back to from time to time. I have far too many in my jstor account and can't go through all of them right now, but these spring to mind:

Achilles and Patroclus in Love by W.M. Clarke, it's a very informative analysis of the homoerotic subtext of the Iliad and tries to "prove" in a way that Achilles and Patroclus are in a romantic/erotic relationship. Super interesting!

The Relationship between Achilles and Patroclus according to Chariton of Aphrodisias and Was the Relationship between Achilles and Patroclus Homoerotic? The View of Apollonius Rhodius by Gabriel Laguna-Mariscal and Manuel Sanz-Morales are two very interesting analyses of Achilles and Patroclus' relationship in relation to other ancient works, they're not too long and I found them very fun to read.

Euphorbus and the Death of Achilles by Roberto Nickel is super interesting and has some really cool takes on the deaths of Hector, Achilles and Patroclus and how they are all related.

Some more stuff

Some more videos I've watched and find rather interesting are The Contemporary Relevance of the Iliad by Erwin Cook, Why Homer Matters which is a talk between Adam Nicholson and Paul Cartledge (whose work and lectures on ancient greek history are always super informative!! I love watching his stuff even if they're not directly Iliad-related) I don't vibe with everything that's said in this video honestly nor do I agree with a lot of Nicholson's takes but they did make some interesting points about Homer's relevance and the emphasis on honour/glory in a world without justice and in a war without good leadership, so it might be worth a watch. Lastly, another series of video lectures that I really like is Homer's The Iliad and The Odyssey, it's five lectures in total and a great introduction to the Homeric works which also goes into the historical context a little bit, very informative even for someone who is well versed in Homer.

I hope this helped! I can't think of any more off the top of my head now, and I really should get ready to leave for work lmao, but if I do think of anything else, I'll add it here :D Also, if you're reading this and have something to add feel free to do so!

#patrochilles #achilles #patroclus #the iliad #homer's iliad #greek mythology #greek literature