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midnightsunnyday · 4 months

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Thinking a bit about Mammon and what we know of him canonically, his behavior, values, principles, and conduct, and how they seem entirely different from what we know of his fanon interpretation.

Canon Mammon is…well, let’s just call a spade a spade, he’s a clown. The certified Butt-Monkey of the brothers, if something bad is going to happen, nine times out of ten, it’s going to happen to him. Dude is a truffle pig for trouble and for the most part, loves to sniff it out and roll in it.

Have the fans explain it, and Mammon is a saint who's never done anything wrong in his life ever, yet story-wise, Mammon’s downfalls and shortcomings are usually due to his own dubious inclinations, though to be fair, are a consequence of him being the literal physical manifestation of one of humanity’s sins: greed. We see this through his gambling habits, his tendency to engage in shady deals or practices, his lying, and his cheating, but what really gains him the ire of most of his siblings and others is his tendency to steal and sell any and everything he assumes may bring him a profit, regardless if the item is sentimental or not.

Needless to say, Mammon isn’t the most respected of his brothers, and they remind him of it every chance they get, specifically with the words “scumbag,” ‘moron,” “idiot,” “money-obsessed moron,” etc. Mammon even suffers for his actions physically, with Lucifer finding little issue in stringing him up and leaving him there to rot for a while.

There’s also the fact that in the first season of the OG game, like most of the brothers, Mammon is kind of an asshole. Your typical Tsundere archetype, his personality is initially brash and not too keen on learning of his forced role as a human attendant, constantly insulting the MC while bemoaning his position all the while, a position he almost fails in upholding more than once when the MC’s life is threatened.

Yet because this is an otome game, Mammon eventually begins to have feelings for the MC as soon as the fourth lesson, and that whole being your “first” thing holds a lot of weight to Mammon, so much so that he’ll bring it up repeatedly. He becomes a bit more clingy, vying for the MC’s attention, to the point where personal space is but a mere myth to this man.

For you see, beyond his salty attitude is a man with a huge heart. Canon Mammon is competent and capable of showing a surprising amount of wisdom, intelligence, strength, and kindness when he puts his mind to it (the man admits himself to being sensitive, after all).

Despite his shortcomings, there’s a reason Lucifer entrusted Mammon with the MC, as out of all of his siblings, he is the only character capable of keeping his “bloodlust” in check. And despite his flakiness at times, Lucifer relies heavily on Mammon to complete certain tasks, to the point where he’s accused of showing favoritism towards the secondborn. Speaking of which, that second-born title also includes his power level, having the ability to clearly fight and defend himself, yet choosing to either run or hide from altercations, if possible. It’s rare for him to get angry or fight back, which is why it’s so scary when he does.

More importantly, Mammon is completely and utterly in love with the MC. This is true for all the brothers, but Mammon is the most consistent, a constant in his character that never changes and is the main drive to his appeal imo. Unlike the other brothers, who seem to have interests and relationships outside of the MC, Mammon’s focus is single-targeted, and it’s one of the many reasons why he’s the most popular character in the game. There are no limitations to his affections. No scary or overly complicated parts to his character. We are his “first,” and that’s a comfortable place to be because regardless of what we do or how we look, Mammon isn’t one to give up and will literally fight, yell, and cry his way into your heart, whether you choose someone else or not.

However, you wouldn’t be able to tell this with Fanon Mammon, a soggy wad of therapy session tissues. He is an absolutely miserable wreck of a man. A traumatized, suicidal-inclined, helpless dude in need of a serious hug. A prone character to hurt/comfort fics, he's the trauma dumpster for the fans who like to project, which would be fine if it weren’t for the fact that these traits are sometimes treated as actual aspects of Mammon’s canon character. Fanon Mammon is essentially boiled down to his most pathetic traits, woobifying him. In fics where the brothers are present, such as Lucifer and Asmodeus, expect them to be written OOC to make Mammon appear even worse. In essense, Fanon Mammon not only has his complexity completely taken away, but takes away the complexity of everyone else around him in the process.

I'm not certain why this happens to Mammon more than other characters. Maybe because of his "kick the dog" status in canon, which causes people to sympathize with him more. And if you're someone who can relate to a lot of Mammon’s shortcomings, then that probably adds to his "woobie" nature.

And this isn't to say you can never go beyond canon and write Mammon any other way, yet it's like I've stated before, there's your headcanon and there's canon. You can think what you want, write what you want, yet something doesn't become a fact just because you want it to be/are emotional about it. And you also don't get the right to attack people for it.

Anyway, these are just things I've noticed about his fanon vs canon that I personally don't like, though opinions are always appreciated.

#obey me #obey me shall we date #obey me mammon #obey me nightbringer

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angelsdean · 5 days

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I know it's a bitter pill to swallow in this fandom for many reasons but, the phrase "open to interpretation" IS inherently a positive phrase that good creators use to affirm to their audiences that stories and art belong to the fans, and that every fan is able to find their own meaning through their own interpretive lens. It's not up to creators or actors to tell people what something--especially ambiguous or subtextual moments--mean. Everyone will come to a different understanding, some views might be more supported by canon than others, but it's still within every viewer's right to see things how they see them.

All "open to interpretation" means is: you get to interpret it! And you! And you! This is a key tenant of any creative work. It can be interpreted. And that is what literary analysis is all about. You build a case for your interpretation. You go into the text and find supporting evidence for your view, your thesis. And some interpretations are argued better than others. But everyone's still allowed to have their interpretation. (Also, literary analysis is fun).

I say all this because I've seen posts about Jensen going from "open to interpretation" to "clear text" as if he's now against the fact that things can and will be interpreted by fans. In terms of Cas's declaration of love? Yes, that is "clear text." It's romantic in nature, that's not up for debate, and Dean processed and understood it as romantic on the dungeon floor. But for stuff that is still ambiguous, still subtextual in some ways, like Dean's own feelings? Those are still open to interpretation by all sides, whether we like it or not. Until we get to see more of Dean and Cas's story in the basically guaranteed reboot, Jensen is not going to speculate about Dean's feelings or Destiel's reunion. He's never going to word-of-god confirm anything about this on stage at a convention. We have to wait to see it play out on screen.

As an actor, it's also not his place to confirm or deny these things. He leaves it up to the fans to read into his performance whatever they want. And yes, that sentiment IS affirming to a Destiel interpretation. We can read reciprocation into his performance. We can read romantic love into his words about Dean wishing he'd said "I love you back." We can look back on the years of queercoding and subtext and Jacting Joices and read Dean as being in love with Cas for years. And, well, the other side can read what they want into it, and we don't need to care what they think, tbqh.

This, IMO, is also part of the reason Jensen tends to give "vague" answers or use language that can be perceived in different ways by either side. As an actor, at a fan convention where fans of all sides of the fandom have paid to be there to have a good time, it's not his job to personally validate specific headcanons and interpretations. Jensen may have his own personal beliefs about Dean's feelings, but he's not going to divulge them in full if they close off one side's interpretation. So he will weave his way through answers. He will use terms like "brother in arms" which one side will hear as simply "brother" and think "platonic" and Destiel shippers will hear as the full meaning, a strong bond between men, and see the queer history associated with these warrior bonds.

He does this, IMO, to keep all lanes open for every fan, because first and foremost he's an actor at a convention being paid to entertain. He's also not a writer, he's not someone who can definitively say what was intended. Personally, I feel that his metaphor about being in an art gallery that he gave back in 2020 is incredibly apt. People come to the gallery and look at the art and find their own meaning. And the artist isn't standing there beside them confirming or denying their interpretations. That's not the artist's job. Once it's out there, it's for others to find meaning in what the artist made.

And again, it's not his place to speculate or write fanfiction for anyone on stage and personally confirm or deny headcanons. He's pretty adamant about the reboot, so I think for some things we'll just have to wait and see.

#if the man says something is open to interpretation again one day i don't want to see ppl screaming and crying that he's 'walking back'#like no nope! all art is inherently open to interpretation. he's right abt that.#this fandom's personal baggage with that phrase doesn't make it less true #it's a neutral to positive phrase that affirms that fans get to find their own personal meaning in a story or work of art. that's it.#things that have been made textual and defined. such as cas's romantic declaration. those are not up for debate #but other aspects of canon are. whether you like it or not. and personally i love a thesis. i love analysis. so i have fun with it!#vic.txt #fandom vs media literacy #jensen and destiel #long post

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cosmics-beings · 1 month

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Why do you like Skybound? From the little I’ve seen on tumblr, it looks like it’s made Starscream into a heartless, ruthless villain with no emotions and that doesn’t sound like something a Starscream fan would enjoy.

The thing about it is that, I like it because it is Starscream. Starscream is ruthless, he is heartless and he is a villain. Especially to humans. The only thing I don’t really like about Skybound is that, for two seconds, I was terrified he was killed off early but people are saying he might be alive?

I think the interesting thing about Starscream, depending on the iteration or what version of the character you absorb, is that he can be multifaceted. I think that the two Starscream’s we have now are Earthspark and Skybound Starscream. It’s fair to say that Earthspark Starscream is handled with a lot of nuance and respect for what happened to him, which is what I absolutely love and adore. But Starscream is still, at his core, before any form or redemption can ever take place, and awful person. Even Earthspark Starscream was not a good person until the episode dropped.

Skybound Starscream to me at least, isn’t that shocking because that shows us one of the many facets of Starscream he can be. I think that, given the various iterations we’ve had of him, and the franchises lack of actually committing to a type of Starscream, it is easy to mix those versions + fandom interpretation (which imo , does tend to water him down and overly pacify him for many reasons), and in a way, think they should be canon.

But in reality, despite the iterations, Starscream is not supposed to be viewed as a good person. At least, not to begin with. Starscream has always been an extremely violent, ruthless, manipulative and abusive person. Even in Earthspark, or TFP, or Cyberverse, etc. He has always resorted to violence to get what he wants. He mistreats those around him, and those who try to help him whether it be his Trine, Knockout, etc. That’s why I don’t think that Skybound is inaccurate because that’s just who he is. I think as Starscream fans, it’s logical to want a version of Starscream that is nuance and more complex because we have gotten that in the past, even among the violence. And I mean, other characters are allowed to have that.

But I’m also okay accepting that Skybound isn’t that version, and that Skybound is also very canon, and often times forgotten version of Starscream that I think the fanbase sometimes needs to be reminded of. I’ve spoken about this before, but while I am heavily empathetic toward Starscream, especially in like TFP and Earthspark (and IDW), he is still an awful person, and he actually has to change to get sympathy points. And what Skybound is doing is in a way, reminding us of that or leaning into that side of Starscream that is either overlooked by the fandom, or a side we haven’t seen in years.

I am literally all for crazed, violent characters like Starscream, and I do like it. Because I also think that, with all the discourse surrounding his character, it is important to recognize that he isn’t this helpless person who has done no wrong. He is still, at his core until he changes, a violent person. And it is satisfying seeing him be violent but also seeing him be held accountable for it.

Skybound Starscream, like all depictions of him, is realistic. I just don’t think we get the nuance or the sympathetic nature of him, which again is okay. That’s not to say that in the future, we don’t see it. Because I believe we will.

I am very curious to see how his relationship with Megatron is going to be, and in my mind I hope they have a good/better relationship but I hope they're good to each other, or at least can work together. I really don't want any of them to be redeemed I just want them to be terrible actually and just feed off of that.

#if i say that starscream is lucretia to megatron's batiatus and i need to see them be THAT bad in this comic #i actually dont want starscream to be a good guy at all #but in that i don't want megatron to be good either T-T #i want them both to be really evil #starscream #transformers skybound #tf skybound #energon universe

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silverwhittlingknife · 1 year

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How do you feel about Jack Drake?? What are your thoughts on him and Tim’s relationship?

Anon, I hope you were interested in a novel, because look, I am fascinated by Jack Drake. He’s key to a whole lot of what I find compelling about Tim as a character, and if I were in charge of DC, I’d bring him back to life. This would make Tim unhappy but would IMO make for good plotlines.

Jack and Tim’s relationship is Complicated (TM)...

Jack and Tim hug in Nightwing 20 / Jack impulsively yanks a TV out of the wall in Robin 45 / Tim grieves in Identity Crisis

“I could tell the truth. But I don’t.” - Robin 66

...and it involves a whole lot of Tim lying, and feeling guilty about lying, and thinking about telling the truth, and choosing again and again to keep lying.

And I think that’s great.

Below the cut:

Shorter version - key points about Jack

Really long version - my gentler take (vigilantism is choir and Jack loves sports) vs. my harsher take (Jack has some major flaws)

Final thoughts

Shorter version - key points about Jack:

He’s a bad parent. He’s self-centered, he consistently prioritizes his own comfort and interests over his son’s, and when upset, he does things like order Tim off to boarding school.

But he’s never a bad parent in an actionable way. He’s not like David Cain or Arthur Brown, who are abusive monsters. Jack’s not a monster! He just...kinda sucks.

He genuinely loves Tim. If Jack’s aware that Tim’s disappeared or is in trouble, he’s always worried and upset. He periodically resolves to be a better dad, and IMO he’s always sincere.

And Tim loves him, a lot. Tim’s protective of him and worries about him when he’s kidnapped or in danger, and when they’re reunited, Tim’s really relieved and usually hugs him (and Jack hugs back!).

...But they have very little in common, and that’s a problem. Jack doesn’t value the things that Tim values, or respect the people that Tim admires, or care about the things that Tim’s interested in. Tim lies to him a lot, but that’s partly because he correctly guesses Jack wouldn’t respond well if he knew the truth of what Tim’s up to.

The Batfamily is a surrogate family that Tim’s drawn to because of the ways his real family doesn’t meet his emotional needs…but also he feels guilty about that and disloyal. (And to the extent that his dad recognizes what’s going on, he's jealous and resentful!)

Very long version:

(LISTEN I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS)

Okay! So first: Jack’s a character who IMO is pretty up for interpretation. You can interpret him very charitably, and make excuses for the bad behavior, and fill in the blanks sympathetically when situations are ambiguous; or you can interpret him uncharitably, and emphasize the bad behavior. I don’t think either approach is invalid - it depends on what kind of story you’re interested in! I have enjoyed Bad Dad stories and also stories that redeem Jack.

My personal take on canon is that Jack and Tim’s relationship is in a gray area. Jack's definitely neglectful, and he does prioritize other things over Tim, but he’s never so bad that Tim can easily reject him, and he's never so bad that Bruce could justify taking Tim away. He's just...not great. Tim loves him, and feels loyal to him, but it’s a very mixed-up complicated love.

I have a gentler take and a harsher one which I switch between as the spirit moves me. xD

My Gentler Take (tl;dr: vigilantism is choir and Jack loves sports)

Here’s the core conflict: Jack and Tim are very different people with different values. Tim idolizes Bruce and Dick and vigilantism, and secretly gets involved, knowing his dad will hate it. He gets increasingly wrapped up in his secret world and lies to his dad...because if his dad finds out, he’ll make Tim quit.

This is a great setup for an ongoing comic. It’s practical, because it provides endless potential for plotlines, and it’s nicely thematic, because it maps closely onto relatable real-life situations with extracurricular activities:

Tim the drama nerd whose dad thinks he’s playing football and not in the school play;

Tim the closeted-queer kid secretly getting involved in his school’s politically-active Gay-Straight Alliance;

Tim the choir kid whose dad only values making money and wants him to go into the family business (and Tim keeps promising himself he'll give up choir soon, definitely soon, but maybe he'll stay in just a liiiittle longer, because they need him, you see, the last tenor left town, so...);

Tim the computer geek with the sports-obsessed dad (this one’s just canon);

etc. etc.

The extracurricular metaphor works pretty well for Tim’s relationship to vigilantism. Tim's involved in his "extracurricular" because he genuinely thinks it's important and fulfilling, and he values it and wants to be good at it. He idolizes Bruce and Dick because they're good at it. He's been collecting information about it since he was a little kid, and hiding it from his parents because he knows they wouldn't approve. And mayyyybe there's also an element of low-key rebellion against his dad, and maybe that's secretly part of the appeal. And yet also as Tim gets more and more invested, he starts to daydream: maybe I could tell my dad and he'd be proud of me and supportive. But he doesn't, because actually he knows his dad would be upset and angry and make him quit.

And - again, just like with lonely kids and extracurricular hobbies - one of the things that happens is that Tim starts getting his unfilled emotional needs met ... by people he knows through this secret hobby. And people like Bruce and Dick start turning into a surrogate family. Which Tim feels guilty about. And also as Tim gets more and more wrapped up in their world, he has to lie to his dad even more, which means the distance between Tim and his dad gets bigger and bigger and more and more unfixable.

I love this dilemma. It's simple, it's recognizable, it provides endless sources for conflict, and there's no obvious solution! Tim can't tell Jack: he'll make Tim quit! And Tim doesn't want to quit, because he loves choir / art / theater / whatever. Yeah, it’s difficult, and there are challenges, and sometimes he has doubts...but at the end of the day, he cares about it a lot. And everything he values is there, and all the people he admires and cares about are there, and all he wants in the world is to feel like he's one of them and belongs there. So he has to lie, even though he doesn't want to lie, and he feels guilty about it...

...but also he ends up lying more and more.

(Sidenote: I think it's important that Tim chooses to keep lying - Tim's narration often glosses this as "I have to lie to my dad," and that's certainly how it feels to Tim, but this... isn't quite true. He has to lie to his dad, because if he doesn't, his dad will get mad at him and try to stop him, not because he literally has no choice about it.)

Other Reasons Why I Like The "Secret Extracurricular" Interpretation

(tl;dr it complicates not just Tim's relationship with his dad, but also all his other relationships)

Tim's problems have some obvious parallels to Steph and Cass, who both become vigilantes while rejecting their evil supervillain dads. But Jack isn't evil. And that means the Tim-and-Jack relationship is ambiguous and complicated in ways that I like. Steph and Cass can just leave their Bad Dads in prison, and say good riddance, and feel very righteous and triumphant about it! Tim’s more complicated. Tim gets into vigilantism ostensibly out of duty and altruism, but secretly, he's also involved for straight-up selfish self-fulfillment reasons. He's lonely, and bored, and his life feels pointless, but he thinks that Bruce and Dick are cool and amazing and he wants to be a part of the things that they do. When his dad gets jealous of Tim’s relationship to Bruce, and feels like Tim’s looking for a surrogate family, he’s... not wrong.

And the ways in which Jack is not Actionably Bad complicate things from Bruce's POV. If Jack was a straight-up villain, it’d be an easy call to keep in touch when Jack finds out and makes Tim quit...but he’s not a villain, not really. So what do you do? Do you try to surreptitiously stay in touch with Tim even though you’re ignoring his dad’s express wishes and thus forcing Tim to sneak around? Do you respect his dad’s wishes and stay away from Tim even though you have a years-long relationship at this point?

Again: a bit similar to the extracurricular analogy. Say you’re the choir director and you’ve built this whole relationship with a kid in the choir, and you’re an important mentor to him and you care about him etc. etc. etc.... and then right before a big performance, his dad finds out he’s been secretly involved, and yanks him out. How would you react? Well, maybe kind of in some of the ways Bruce reacts. You replace him. You’re annoyed with him. You miss him. You want him to come back. You’re also worried about him. You’re upset with his dad. But also... what should you do, exactly?

Bruce and Alfred and Dick care about Tim as if he were part of their family, but he’s not part of their family, and there’s a lot of interesting tension there.

My Harsher Take

Jack never hits his son. But his temper is a big deal.

In his worst moments, he takes out his anger on Tim’s stuff - wrecking his room, or ripping his TV out of the wall and confiscating it. When he’s worried about Tim, he usually expresses that fear by yelling at him / punishing him / sending him away - threatening to send him to boarding school in Metropolis in Robin III, or threatening to send him to military school abroad in Robin 92, or actually forcing him to go to an all-boys' boarding school post-NML.

This is bad behavior! It is Not Good!

And you can easily connect the dots to a bunch of Tim’s terrible coping mechanisms, like the constant lying and or the fact that Tim’s go-to methods for dealing with interpersonal conflict are 1) repress it and pretend it never happened (most of his fights with Bruce), 2) withdraw from the relationship until he can pretend the conflict doesn’t exist (when his friends get mad at him in YJ, he quits the team for a while), or 3) literally run away from home.

Also, Jack is a Manly Man with firm opinions about how men behave vs. how women behave, and he thinks boys shouldn’t be scared and thinks Tim should date hot girls and pushes Tim to work out and wants him to play football and expresses period-typical sexism, etc. etc. etc. ... and though obviously this wasn’t what the writers had in mind at the time, all of that is certainly interesting to read backwards in the light of Tim as a queer character.

More Disorganized Thoughts on Jack Drake

Tim’s our hero, so we’re naturally more sympathetic to him, but it’s also true that relationships are a two-way street, and Tim doesn’t value any of the things his dad values, either. Jack at various points is shown to care about grades, business, money, boarding schools, archeology, football, a kind of macho bragging-about-dating-hot-women ethos, and a very public and performative kind of caring. Tim tends to respond with discomfort or disinterest or even disgust. When Jack gets on TV to try to rally the government to save his son from No Man’s Land, Tim isn’t touched—he’s mortified. When Jack makes some bad investments and loses money, Jack’s deeply upset and his self-image is majorly impacted, and far from being sympathetic, Tim’s annoyed and kind of contemptuous of the idea that this is a problem. Jack thinks fishing in the early morning and going to tennis matches is a fun father-son activity; Tim finds it exhausting and tedious. And so on.

This means that Tim often longs to be closer to his dad in theory, but this longing is more tied to fantasy than to reality. He rarely seems to enjoy spending time with His-Dad-The-Actual-Person. So for example, when Tim’s deadly ill with the Clench, he has an extremely poignant fever dream about telling his dad the truth and getting hugged…even as he insists in real-life to Alfred and Dick that he does not want them to tell his dad what’s going on.

The same is true of Jack, who IMO genuinely wants to be closer to his son and is continually declaring that he’s going to turn over a new leaf and get closer to his son…and just as continually backs out of activities or loses his temper when faced with spending time with his actual son.

Tim and his dad sadly get along best—by far—in Absence Makes the Heart Grow Fonder situations. When Jack gets kidnapped or is in danger, Tim worries for him (and Tim grieves him deeply when he dies). When Tim disappears or runs away, Jack’s genuinely worried about him. So e.g. they have a really moving emotional reunion and hug when the earthquake hits Gotham, and Tim panics about his dad’s safety and comes running home (and meanwhile Jack’s been panicked about Tim’s safety!). It’s the day-to-day, regular life stuff where they don’t connect.

Jack's written quite differently by different writers. Mostly, Tim's parents are at their least likable in his early appearances and early miniseries (this is where you get, for example, Jack and Janet being nasty at each other while a pained employee looks on, and Tim disappointed to once again get news of where his parents are via postcard - "I guess that sums them up! Never know where they’re going to be–or when–or even how long!” - and Tim alone on school break, and Bruce and Alfred thinking there's something weird going on with Tim's parents, etc. etc.). Jack's more sympathetic but still often unlikable in most of Tim's Robin solo, and he's almost invisible (but positively treated if he does show up) in Tim's team books.

For obvious reasons, Jack's remembered way more sympathetically after his death. Tim's completely devastated by Jack's murder, which he arrives moments too late to prevent, and he basically never gets over it. We see him grieving Jack again and again in Robin, and also in Teen Titans, and also in Resurrection, and again in the Halloween Special, and again in Batman: Blackest Night, and all the way up to the end of Red Robin. Tim also grieves for an extended time over Janet - he hallucinates a happy reunion with her when he's feverish in Contagion, and hallucinates her in the final issue of Robin, and the reveal-your-buried-emotions song in Robin 102 brings up his grief for her too (meanwhile, other characters dance or laugh or otherwise get giddy). Tim’s grief over his parents’ deaths is intense and long-lasting.

I'm not going to clip comic panels because this is long enough, but if you're curious, here's a nice and fairly lengthy compilation of comic panels with Tim and Jack.

If you're interested in a Jack-centric story with a softer-but-still-recognizably-canon take on Jack, I really like the way Jack’s narration is written in the one-shots Heart Humble (set shortly before Jack dies) and Never a Hero (Ra's resurrects him during Brucequest, and Jack's archeology skills turn out to be unexpectedly useful).

#tim drake #jack drake #ask tag #i wrote this ages ago and now i can't remember what i was going to add to it so oh well draft amnesty? sorry for the long wait anon!! <333 #anyway i kept this carefully on topic and virtuously did not derail into talking about the other blorbo but tags are for disorganization SO #for me this kinda half-in half-out place where tim is with the batfamily is SUCH an interesting part of his relationship with dick #and i never stop turning it over in my head #he's kiiiinda replaced dick in that he's robin - but in a very real way he *hasn't* - he's NOT bruce's new son the way jason was #and early!tim makes a BIG POINT of how bruce is not his dad #and i think this relative distance from bruce is a huge factor in why dick is able to build a close relationship with tim at all #(because dick's still pretty estranged from bruce!)#and there's such interesting tension there when dick starts jokingly calling tim ''little brother'' or when villains call them brothers #because they're NOT. increasingly they would both LIKE to be brothers! but dick has zero official standing in tim's life #if tim got hit by a car in his civilian identity bruce and dick wouldn't even be able to visit him without his dad's permission #which jack would be pretty unlikely to give! jack doesn't like or trust bruce!#or like. this is morbid. but if tim died. dick wouldn't even be invited to the funeral you know?#and there's such interesting tension there for me in the contrast between this vigilante relationship that's very very close #but in their civilian lives no one would assume they're anything in particular to each other #anyway the 1st half of tim's robin solo has this thread of tension between tim's family life vs. his vigilante life (plus his mom's death)#and then the second half + red robin has the thread of struggling with grief in a world that's not fair + feeling lost/alone #and these two threads are a big part of my interest in tim as a character! jack's the backdrop that makes a lot of stories possible

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deripmaver · 7 months

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Did Kentaro Miura Confirm Casca "Enjoyed It"?!?!?!

LOL another day another weird google translate from kojion causing a stir in the Berserk fandom. Explicit discussion of rape and feeling physical pleasure during rape to follow, be careful if that's not something you can read!

While at first everyone was furious and demanding a source, and rightly so, someone posted the magazine this interview came from:

I have absolutely no japanese language skills at all, so I have no idea how much this translation matches up with kojion's post. I did a bit more digging and found a second English translation, which I've helpfully flipped horizontal so you don't have to crane your necks like I did LOL:

To be clear, the specific phrasing of Casca experiencing pleasure, and reaching "ecstasy" (I'm assuming that means orgasm) are FROM THE FEMALE ARTICLE WRITER. She is saying that to HER it's clear that Casca is experiencing pleasure and reaching orgasm.

The response from Miura is a lot harder to parse, in my opinion. Per the writer, he responds, "Even without the God Hand, Casca thought she would feel pleasure if the person being raped was Griffith" (kojion, I think this is supposed to say something like "she would feel pleasure if the person she was being raped by was Griffith") or "Even if we didn't mention the God Hand, I thought Casca would feel that way (ie from the previous paragraph, that the rape would feel good) if the other person was Griffith."

I suppose I have two sets of thoughts about this, the first set being that I really don't think this is the smoking gun of "Miura says Casca liked being raped!" that people are interpreting it as. It's very possible that Miura is only referring to physical feelings of pleasure and orgasm during rape and not actually enjoying it in like... a NTR hentai kind of way LOL. The question really is whether Kentaro Miura in 1996 had the nuanced perspective on sexual violence to say that sometimes during rape the victim feels an unwanted pleasure response, but that doesn't negate the traumatic psychological effects of it, and in some ways that unwanted arousal can create its own host of traumatic psychological effects. It's possible imo, but I can't say for sure. Either way, simply having your main character experience orgasm during rape isn't in and of itself a bad thing to do (Diana Gabaldon did it too, in Outlander), it's more about the intention behind it.

What I CAN say for sure is that everything about Casca's character during and after the eclipse is meant to indicate that the rape was mind-breakingly traumatic for her. From how she tells Guts not to watch, to of course how she completely regresses into this infantile state, to her reaction to seeing Griffith on the Hill of Swords being panic and terror, I really don't see any argument within canon for the idea that she "enjoyed" the rape beyond possibly being physically aroused, which I've already discussed.

The second set of thoughts I have are basically: this article is from 1996. It was published twenty seven years ago. In a much more recent article from 2019, Miura had this to say on the topic of sexual assault in Berserk:

Though this again isn't the smoking gun of "Miura regrets the sexual violence in early Berserk" people make it out to be, it's very clear his perspective has grown and changed as he got older. I think, in order to understand Miura's thoughts about Casca's rape at the time of his death, it makes much more sense to look at his words about the corridor of dreams chapters, and the chapters themselves. At some point in between 1996 and 2019 he clearly came to the conclusion that specifically being raped by Griffith was what caused her to shatter mentally, so honestly... Even if you take the least charitable interpretation of the quote from 1996, I think you have to acknowledge that he clearly doesn't feel that way now. Or, didn't. Like, in ~2019, this is how wrote Casca having PTSD:

I also want to include this quote from kojion's account about how Miura reacted after the eclipse:

There are a bunch of other quotes of Miura feeling depressed after the eclipse, I was gonna find more but I forgot kojion has a habit of posting the most explicit eclipse panels uncensored on his twitter and I'm not gonna wade through those for them. Either way, I just don't think there's much to support the idea that the eclipse was supposed to be anything BUT horrible and traumatic.

Anyways, tl;dr, Miura doesn't ever say "Casca enjoyed being raped," that's from the interviewer. He could very well be referring to an unwanted arousal response. And even if he wasn't and did really mean she was kind of into it, though I don't think this is supported by canon, he clearly has grown a lot since this was published twenty seven years ago.

#berserk #casca berserk #casca #berserk meta #fandom wank #dont get me wrong LOL miura is a weird dude #but idk man

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akatsukitrash · 6 days

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Art piece that will be part of But in this twilight, our choices seal our fate's fic cover! First time drawing a background as well, and drawing plants. Oddly enjoyable to draw a tree ngl, but the background...Jesus. Anyway click on the image for better quality, I don't know why tumblr sabotages me like that.

Symbolism under the cut for those who want it :

Hashirama's position is inspired from Dharmachakra Buddha, or Teaching Buddha. This is what I found about it :

This statue signifies wisdom, understanding, and fulfilling destiny. Both hands are held at chest level, with thumb and index fingers forming a circle. The right hand is turned palm in, while the left hand is turned palm out. As do most images of the Buddha, the Teaching Buddha depicts a particular moment in the life of the Buddha, namely, the first sermon the Buddha gave after reaching Enlightenment. This sermon was to a small group of disciples who had previously scorned the Buddha. This is a statue that is particularly appropriate for those who are either studying or are interested in learning more about spirituality. The phrase DharmaChakra is hard to translate. The word Dharma means "the way of righteousness," while the word Chakra is usually translated as the "Universe" or as the "cosmos." Taken together, this phrase generally is interpreted as, "putting the cosmic law of righteousness in order," or "turning the wheel of cosmic righteousness."

I think it fits Hashirama's character arc in the fic, as he reaches "Enlightenment" through both the awakening of the Mokuton and the decision to create a village, and it's that goal he strives towards, and wants to convince his clan of following him in that path. The group of disciples can be interpreted as either the Uchiha clan or the Senju clan. Hashirama believes he's bringing justice and peace to the world, literally enforcing his "law of rightenousness" upon the world, although he is, despite being linked to him, not Buddha. He is just a kid, and the decisions he will make will have a long lasting impact on the world and his own clan, but I will get to that.

The moon :

I know that canon links the Ashura reincarnations to the sun and the Indra reincarnations to the moon but I decided to ignore canon. Hashirama is not an Ashura reincarnation in my AU and personally I view him as a Moon character, with Madara being the sun.

The Japanese mood god is called Tsukuyomi in Shinto and the sun goddess is Amaterasu. The moon god’s sister takes the stage most of the time, but at night, Tsukuyomi embodies all the positive things of the dark sky — spirituality, dreams and energy balance. In Zen Buddhism, the moon symbolises enlightenment. Regardless of which religion one is in, the Japanese people collectively look up to the moon as a positive force in their beliefs.

Those things fit Hashirama's character and achievements far more than Madara's, especially with the enlightenment aspect, since Hashirama is canonically Buddhist. In the databooks, he is also described as calmer than Tobirama (whose temper is akin to Madara's) and his sudden mood shifts remind me of the different phases of the moon. He draws power and inspiration from his relationship to Madara, whom he calls a "gift from the divine", much like the moon draws its light from the sun. Madara is also a very sun character imo but I will not ramble about him because that is not his post. Furthermore, the moon is linked to the ocean through the tides, and I think that's a cute tidbit since Tobirama is very much the ocean, and Hashirama is a huge influence in Tobirama's life. Part of the reason they fall out in my AU is that Hashirama is so stubborn and unable to see beyond the system (the moon is associated with illusions) while Madara is more destructive and has an all or nothing mindset - either he brings real peace to the world or he dies trying (he dies trying). Madara is ofc also associated with flames and his personality is so fiery, passionate and extroverted, a presence that either shines or burns everything around it. Hashirama inspires without burning, he is more level-headed, and his dark side is hidden, although far more dangerous (the moon phases, again). He's also the one who takes the sun away from the world, indirectly causing the First Great Shinobi War.

Willow :

Willow trees, known as “yanagi” in Japanese, have a profound cultural significance in Japan. The symbolic meaning of willow in Japanese culture is associated with grace, resilience, and flexibility, making it a powerful symbol in art, literature, and daily life.

and

In Japanese literature, the willow tree is often used as a metaphor for human resilience and perseverance.

I think that a kid who grew up in a centuries-old war and still stubbornly believes he can at least make things better so children would not die so young is as resilient and perseverant as one can be. He did the impossible, and although his dream backfired, he did make the world safer for children for a little while. I am staring very angrily at Hiruzen for not keeping it that way.

Since we're talking about plants, let's move to

Ambrosia :

According to hanakotoba, ambrosia means pious. In Japan, ambrosia is used to brew a special drink that, in mythology, was said to grant immortality, and ambrosia tea is brewed as an offering to the gods. In the West, plants of the Ambrosia genus are commonly called ragweed, and they’re often thought of with a pejorative connotation, as many people suffer from ragweed allergies.

Like I said before, Hashirama's powers have a very mythical and religious dimension to them, especially within Senju beliefs. And of course, as the God of Shinobi, nothing's more fitting than a flower meant for the gods! Of course, not all cultures have the same view on ambrosia, just like how in my AU opinions on Hashirama diverge. Some rever him as a god, and some view him as a monster. His actions brought many benefits to Konoha and its population, but also destroyed civilians' lives and made other shinobi villages terrified of the Mokuton's power (hence the premise of Far Beyond the Woods of Dawn, where the world has to deal with the Mokuton coming back with Akemi, Hashirama's grandniece).

Broken weapons :

I think that's self explanatory!

The nightstand :

Oh boy. Well the vajra is obviously the Senju's crest, and this is what I found about it :

The Vajra (Sanskrit: वज्र, lit. 'Thunderbolt', IAST: Vajra) is a legendary and ritualistic tool, symbolizing the properties of a diamond (indestructibility) and a thunderbolt (irresistible force). In Hinduism, it has also been associated with weapons. In Buddhism, the vajra (Standard Tibetan: dorje) is the symbol of Vajrayana, one of the three major schools of Buddhism. Vajrayana is translated as "Thunderbolt Way"[17] or "Diamond Way" and can imply the thunderbolt experience of Buddhist enlightenment or bodhi. It also implies indestructibility,[18] just as diamonds are harder than other gemstones. In the tantric traditions of Buddhism, the vajra is a symbol for the nature of reality, or sunyata, indicating endless creativity, potency, and skillful activity. Buddism integrates the word vajra into many of its legends and practices. Vajrasana is the location where the Buddha attained enlightenment. The vajra asana body posture is the lotus position. The highest concentrated mental state is vajra samadhi.

The Senju are known for their vitality, stamina and incredible life force, and I personally expanded on that in my AU by giving them superior physical prowess (Tsunade has the most strength amongst them but they all have superstrength and insane durability and speed). They're also known for mastering all areas of shinobi powers, which fits the endless creativity. Honestly Kishimoto went OFF with the symbolism there.

However, here, it's tainted with blood, and hidden behind ninjutsu scrolls. Those who read my AU will know this is representative of how Hashirama's quest for power to establish Konoha led to the Senju's genocide (still continuous at this point of the timeline!). Hashirama is still young in this piece, but his disregard to his clan has already started (and is a parallel to Madara also having the same issue with the Uchiha). The vajra is indesctructible, but the Senju aren't, and Hashirama will fail to see that.

The Uchiha crest and the butterflies :

The crest's symbolism in itself isn't important so I won't make this post any longer by rambling about fans and Amaterasu and Buddha, but the position is quite important. Hashirama has set the Uchiha's crest in a spot that's easy to see, above the hidden Senju crest, which gives the illusion (moon!) that Hashirama values the Uchiha more than his own clan. He does not. He values Madara, which is totally different. The consequences of his actions will also be felt for the Uchiha, as symbolized by the butterflies.

White butterflies often symbolize purity, freedom and love but in the case of Japanese symbolism specifically,

The white butterfly is a powerful symbol in Japan, representing the souls of departed loved ones. In Japanese culture, white butterflies are often seen as messengers from the spiritual realm and can be used to bring comfort to those who have lost someone close. The tradition of connecting butterflies with death dates back centuries in Japan.

Hi Izuna! Your clan is definitely suffering. Woups. But yeah, while this may look like a good omen at first glance, it's in fact the souls of the dead Uchiha watching over the weakened and ostracized Uchiha clan in Konoha.

The crimson butterfly also symbolizes the souls of the departed (Madara, maybe?), but it's also used to portray star-crossed lovers who can only be together in death, a trope very much linked to HashiMada, since they could never be together in life (due to Hashirama's internalized homophobia, Tobirama killing Izuna, the mess that is Konoha, etc etc).

It can also represent fragility, which foreshadows how fragile the alliance between the Senju and Uchiha will be, and how quickly the peace (imperfect and reliant on the suffering of other nations) Hashirama created will unravel.

Phew, this is the end I think. Took me more time to type up this post than to draw the art itself bc I kept getting distracted and had finals. Anyway I hope you guys enjoyed the art! I can't wait to do Touka and Tobirama next.

#hashirama senju #senju hashirama #naruto fanart #naruto #hashimada #fanart #beginner artist #senju clan #my art

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wickjump · 29 days

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Opinions on bloodyapple (aka horror x dream)?

YALL KEEP SENDING ME AESTHETICALLY BUT NOT CANONICALLY PLEASING SHIPS IM GONNA EXPLODE

solid 9/10, just not in canon. horror has gone through a lot and the way he does things and reacts to things and generally exists is a lot different from how he used to—it wouldn’t go well with dream in canon. at all. cannot see it in canon, dream wouldn’t go near horror enough to ever want to pursue a romantic relationship with him, or probably even a friendship unless horror showed genuine change, which in canon would be difficult to do considering everything he’s gone through. in canon he’d be much better with farm imo and even then he’d need to work on himself a bit

in fanon however they’re great they’re awesome i rlly rlly like them. in fanon, horror is a lot better, is that something i can say? i’m saying it. and i mean moral wise btw. horror is more peaceful of a character, and depending how far into fanon you go, sometimes he’s characterized as more protective or caring towards the character(s) he’s portrayed to be close with. even if it’s only a little fanon, it goes so far in terms of horror x dream, because it allows horror the ability to be a kinder person, one that dream would like, want to understand and get closer to (in interpretations where he either leaves nightmare’s group or never joined), and eventually pursue a relationship with. dream would find it easier to sympathize someone who still cares for others, regardless of how fucked up their morality or previous actions may have been, and would encourage better habits and influences on horror.

and as with 99% of the ships i’ve been told to rate, aesthetically i adore them. i like the scary x sweet looks dynamic because i’m far too cringe, but i especially love it when both are keen on beating the shit out of you were you to do something to deserve it in their minds. i like the darker x pastel theme they sometimes have in art as well, and generally i’m fond of ‘i lean towards violence more often than not’ x ‘i lean towards pacifism more often than not’ as a trope. horror is covered in blood and dream is baking cookies and getting ready to donate his life savings to an orphanage. that trope and dynamic is always appealing to me

only way i don’t like it is in that weird 2016 ‘i’m going to make dream so childlike and horror so dominant over hi, that it looks like he should be put on a list and get 20-30 years in jail’ vibe they had going on for a while—though it wasn’t as much with each other as it was with other characters. i don’t doubt it’d still apply to them if they were popular around then though

other than that? love them. solid 9/10 in fanon. 1/10 in pure unchanged canon though im sorry

#horror sans #dream sans #bloodyapple #sanscest #sanshipping #sans #utmv #undertale #horror x dream #dream x horror #u don’t get how much i love fanon #all of u hate on fanon… little do u know im a master at having fun and joy…..

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yaksha-lover · 6 months

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Hi! Maybe strange question but you seem to have a good grasp on the boys’ personalities. I’ve been reading a lot of the yanderification of the TWST boys and started wondering which ones (if any) would be most likely to have what could be labeled “yandere” tendencies. Just seems like a fun train of thought to chase.

Do you have any thoughts on this? (Also sorry for the word salad.)

In my opinion, I think it’s pretty easy to twist most of their personalities to fit a yandere type, but as for who’s yandere characterizations are closest to their canon counterparts, I would say:

Malleus, I think is the obvious one. Although clearly I don’t think he’d be yandere in canon, it makes sense for him to have some clingy tendencies in a relationship, and an obsession with his romantic interest. It’s the whole ‘you’re the only person in the world who matters to me’ type trope, because of the social rejection and isolation he’s faced.

People usually take it two ways here, either a) very possessive and jealous or b) very protective. I tend to lean towards the second interpretation (although I love to explore the first one, the second is more canon to me). More ‘I would burn cities to protect you, move heaven and earth to make you happy’ than ‘I want to keep you locked up here all to myself, you belong to me.’ So yes, a yandere Malleus may kidnap you, but only to keep you ‘safe.’ He’s also not as emotionally immature as I think he’s sometimes characterized as (although I’m probably also guilty of this). He’s not really the type to force someone to love him, imo, because he wants it to be genuine (his insecurity stems from an inability to be accepted so forcing it wouldn’t truly fulfill that desire to be loved and validated).

Rook, I think also makes sense, but it’s hard to say because most of the time a lot of his characterization is just played for jokes. Like the whole ‘he’s a stalker, he knows a lot about everyone, others get unnerved by him, etc.’ It’s meant to be funny, but if we take it seriously then we could probably jump to some interesting conclusions about Rook. Also, combined with that ghost bride line about him ‘never letting his beloved go’ -

He seems the type to get fixated on some object of beauty, and I could see that developing into a yandere-like obsession. Maybe if he finally finds the one thing - or person - who he thinks is the true pinnacle of art and beauty, what he’s been searching for all along. Initial stalking to learn more about his interest, some uncomfortable attempts at closeness because he knows everything about them and they know nothing about him. Divided between showing his beloved off to the world and keeping them all nice and pretty for his own enjoyment - the only one who can truly appreciate their beauty. Also, once he’s felt the experience of love, I doubt he’d ever want to live without it. Maybe that’s the ‘true’ beauty of life to him, even.

Jamil is just so apathetic that if he ever did fall for someone, I can’t see him ever giving them up if he can help it. Also, we’ve seen in canon that Jamil isn’t above doing mildly bad things for self-serving interests (think masquerade with ruggie, manipulating the oblivious students).

He just wants something nice and soft for himself. Is that so much to ask for, after all he’s been through? Jamil is never allowed to have anything, nothing that Kalim doesn’t. It’s no wonder he’d cling to the only sweet thing he can get his hands on, something just for him. Even if you’re frustrated with him, even if you get tired of him, he isn’t so willing to just let you go. He deserves something nice like you, and you’ll be happy with him, even if you might need a ‘charming’ reminder of it sometimes.

Lastly, Jade and Floyd are popular yanderes to write for a reason. They both already have so much inexplicably unhinged energy even compared to the rest of the cast (other than maybe Rook). Jade seems so cold and apathetic, while putting on a mask of care. Floyd doesn’t really care to do so, wearing his many moods on his sleeve. But they’re still two sides of the same coin; they’re used to getting whatever they want, often by questionable means.

They also seem like they would be pretty possessive, even if it comes out in different ways. Jade and Floyd may be good at sharing with each other, but they’ve never been good at sharing with anyone else. Floyd will show you (and whoever thinks it’s okay to encroach on his partner) how upset he is by this particular development. I doubt you’d want to keep it up when he threatens your friends that get a little too close. Jade is different; the same annoyance and possessiveness still burns him, but he has a little more patience than Floyd. He isn’t willing to start any fights. Jade prefers not to get his hands dirty, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have other tactics to scare away anyone who tries to flirt with you.

#tw: yandere #thanks for the ask!#i really love discussing characterization and stuff like this :)#sorry i’m so tangential when trying to make a point 😭😭#it’s simply impossible for me to be concise #these are just my opinions tho #malleus draconia #rook hunt #jamil viper #jade leech #floyd leech #twst #yaksha-lover replies

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straightbaittournament · 8 months

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may the best bait win! propaganda under the cut:

robin and steve:

After Steve and his gf break up in s2, in s3 the show pairs him up with Robin - his opposite. They don't get along, but through insane plot are forced together and become friends and work together. Robin even confesses that she used to obsess over Steve. But when he tells her he likes her, Robin reveals that she obsessed over Steve because the girl she liked was into Steve and she was jealous. In one scene their relationship switches from 'well duh they're gonna get together' to 'oh shit they're bffs - a lesbian and her supportive himbo'

In my opinion, this is the quintessential straightbait, the first I've ever seen to seem so on purpose. Steve and Robin spend the whole of season 3 becoming closer and Steve is constantly told by his friends that he should make a move on Robin. When he finally does, surprise! Robin is a lesbian! This was so masterfully done imo because I actually felt some chemistry there and then they hit us with the lesbian card. Now they are besties who talk about boobies together and I wouldn't have it any other way.

they were paired together at the beginning of s3 and everyone thought they were gonna end up together, steve even confessed he had a crush on her, but then it was revealed that robin was a lesbian so they stayed Platonic with a capital P they're codependent best friends with a single braincell between them what more do you want

"it isn't because i had a crush on you. it's because... she wouldn't stop staring at you."

roy and riza:

Did you know they’re not canon? Because they’re not! They love and care for each other deeply and spend a ton of time together throughout the series but they never actually are romantically involved. The ship everyone thinks is canon but isn’t it’s that big of straight bait

slight disclaimer: the mangaka has said that riza and roy love each other and would marry each other given the chance, but will not act on their feelings as it would be inappropriate due to their military ranks as colonel and 1st lieutenant/bodyguard. some have interpreted that as royai being canon, although nothing has occurred in canon to explicitly express romantic desire

Sooo in love with each other but NEVER admit it… she’s his bodyguard and he also tries his best to protect her and there are a ton of moments that show their closeness but they just can’t have a relationship in their current situation

roy and riza! you either know it from the series or u are sick and tired of seeing them in other polls! but theres a reason for that—its about the devotion, its about years of pinning, its about the trust, its about knowing each other so well that u can distinguish the imposter posing as each other, it's about the villains using ur other half to force u to do sth, its roy trusting riza to keep him on the line and riza telling him that if he strays she will kill him first and then take her own life, its about riza trusting roy to burn the sigils on her back after trusting him with the sigils and teaching him the fire alchemy and!!!! all of this and still no kisses. pain and suffering on the earth (the good kind) no kissies after 64 episodes leaves the fandom in shambles (clickbait)

#again . sorry #stranger things #fullmetal alchemist #full metal alchemist #fma #royai #stobin #poll #polls #poll tournament #straightbait tournament round 1

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gendrie · 9 months

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Realistically, what note do you think or hope the books will end in regard to Arya and Gendry? I don’t expect fanfic wish fulfillment but Grrm seems to have a soft spot for them so maybe a vague romantic suggestion that leaves their future open to interpretation? Which I realize is not much different to where we’re already at lol but I just can’t imagine how their relationship would develop.

when i consider what arya/gendry will look like in the end, or just the future in general, i think about whats already in the text. the elements of romance and even sexuality within their interactions are more than a lil suggestive. ie: the two of them rolling around together is not subtle lol. the phrase "between his legs" is used twice in that paragraph. grrm wrote an exclusive to a/g love song and had the singer wink as he sang it. he introduced not one, but 2 characters mostly just to fan the flames here. gendry explicitly threatens to have sex with a girl to try to make arya jealous and he visibly dislikes a perceived rival for her attention. ect! this isn't some obscure aspect of the story. its a legitimate side plot.

so i wouldn't even describe their existing canon interactions as "vague" therefore i don't assume their future ones, endgame included, would be left entirely up to interpretation either. are they going to get married on page? and consummate the union? no. but i do expect their future interactions to continue to be obviously romantic in nature. esp now that arya is older (and gendry seems to be younger)

with all that in mind here are my realistic thoughts:

when arya returns from braavos she will rekindle her friendship with gendry and realize she's attracted to him. gendry, having endured the loss of arya, will be willing to commit to her regardless of the issues that forced them apart previously. its all going to be pg-13 and tame by asoiaf standards but they will be crushing and it's not going to be a secret. not to the readers nor anyone who happens to witness the two of them together.

as i see it theres two potential outcomes: the class difference is still insurmountable and they remain apart or they end up together in some capacity. this will probably be a controversial claim, but a/g have less barriers to being together long term than any other ship imo. consistently, throughout their relationship, gendry being "too bloody lowborn" for arya is THE issue. its the source of all the conflict between them and its the thing keeping them apart. other than that? they clearly like and admire each other. arya trusts gendry, values his perspective, and confides in him things she tells no other character. she wanted him to come home with her, to be a part of her pack.

and i want to emphasis that arya values gendry's counsel specifically because thats one aspect of their dynamic that feels very relevant within the context of their potential as a grown up couple. they make a good team and work well together. they've already endured the bleakest possible scenarios by working together. gendry is presented as a really fitting partner for arya which i think is intentional tbh.

but ultimately, can the class difference be overcome? i think it can. and not only that but i think arya and gendry ending up together can be reflective of the changes we're going to see across the board with westeros' political system. they're not going to abolish the monarchy, but there will be major changes with how the kingdom is run.

the end i envision for them is fairly understated despite all my arguing that their relationship isnt all that subtle. arya asking gendry to come home with her to winterfell (again) would be enough, but thats not vague to me either. the meaning will be clear.

all that being said HEAs are not going to plentiful in asoiaf. grrm likes "we'll always have paris" type romances where two people meet and change each other, but go their separate ways. it could be that is what happens with arya and gendry. im realistic, if not bordering on pessimistic, so i want to embrace that possibility! but everything on paper is telling me they're supposed to end up together. not least of all bc in order for this romantic build up to actually come to full fruition they have to be grown which won't be until post series.

i try to keep my expectations low too but is it wish fulfillment to expect substantial pay off? idk.......grrm has been teasing love, sex and even marriage with arya and gendry for like the entire series actually. since that "arya has the hands of a blacksmith" comment in the first paragraph of her first chapter. he better do something!!!

#ask #gendrya #this got long lol #hopefully its coherent i got a lotta thoughts #i felt like i couldnt address the end without getting into a few other points

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stoat-party · 1 year

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Canon/Headcanon ages for Fallout characters (potential spoilers)

I’m standardizing the ages to 2281, which is when New Vegas begins. (Fallout 3 is 2277 and 4 is 2287 but I haven’t played it yet). These are kind of estimations because obviously everyone doesn’t have the same birthday.

ED-E: 6. Literal toddler. Darling infant child baby.

Dogmeat (from Fallout 3): 12. (Not canon.) It’s on the elderly side for his breed (fanon pretty much agrees he’s a blue heeler), but I choose to believe that Fallout dogs have mutated to live longer. My version of Dogmeat either got too old or took too many hits by this point, so he’s retired to become Three Dog’s co-host.

Arthur Maxson: 14. I think it’s also canon that he became elder at 16, which I adore. Boy is way too young to look like that.

R.J. MacCready: 16. Mungo 😔

Follows-Chalk: 19. (Not canon.) Honestly, I’d be surprised if he weren’t a teenager. He’s very much finding himself and choosing who he wants to be, which you can still do at any age, but it’s a hallmark of your teen years. And he’s adorable.

Amata Almodovar: 23. (Pretty much canon.) Younger than the Lone Wanderer because she has no Pip-Boy when LW turns 10. Can’t be too many months apart, though, because they go to play with her when they’re 12 months.

Lone Wanderer: 23. They were born on July 13 and left the Vault at 19.

(my) Courier Six: Also 23. (Not canon.) I like having them be the same age. In terms of canon information, all we know is that they were well-established as a courier in 2277, so they probably wouldn’t be younger than about 21. It’s implied in one Lady Killer dialogue that they’re at least 36 (apparently had some sort of fling in Montana 18 years ago), but the dialogue is optional, so you can have them be whatever age you want.

Butch DeLoria: 24. (Not canon.) IDK where I got the idea that he’s a year older than the Lone Wanderer, because the only canon evidence I can find is that he already had his Pip-Boy at their 10th birthday, but I like it. Either he got held back a year, or Vault 101 combines classrooms due to low population.

Craig Boone: 26. Let the man be young pls.

Veronica Santangelo: 27. Older than she seems IMO.

Sarah Lyons: 27-28. Would be 30 if she were still alive.

Christine Royce: 28. (Not canon.) Because if you grew up with someone, I feel like it would be weird to date them if there had been a substantial age gap.

Nova: 29. A successful innkeeper living life and not being exploited, bless.

Charon: 30. (Extremely not canon.) I feel like most people would cast him as way older than that, but I’ve written his whole backstory and it requires him to not have been hanging out in Underworld for the past century. There’s no concrete information on this, so go wild.

Waking Cloud: 32. (Not canon.) Her third child is six, but she still seems pretty young. I imagine marriage age is a little lower in the tribes.

Vulpes Inculta: 34-38. (Canon is a passing shadow at this point.) Try as I might, I can’t figure out why people place the destruction of the Twisted Hairs as happening 25 years prior. Not only would Vulpes have to have been an adult then, he was a decanus before that. Which would put him in his fifties. He’s described in canon as a young man, though, and I’m also attached to this interpretation of him. It’s a mess, and I’m going with my gut.

Arcade Gannon: 35. Probably on the tail end of 35 since he says he’s in his late thirties. Happy birthday, Arcade, your prize is bandaging me up on our stupid adventures.

Daniel: 36. (Not canon.) In my timeline, he’s Joshua’s nephew, and he was a toddler when Josh left. I know that’s completely unsupported by canon, but I wanted to add personal drama to their ideological drama.

Rose of Sharon Cassidy: 37. Which makes sense because her father was in Fallout 2.

Benny: 40. (Not canon.) I’m a Benny-in-his-forties truther. He’s led the tribe for seven years, and he really doesn’t strike me as young. It’s also just funny that cosplay is his literal whole personality when he’s edging into middle age.

Lucius: 43. (Not canon.) Appears to be graying, still quite capable in a very physical job. He’s considered old in the Legion, but since it’s a young nation, most men are taken from their tribes as children, and death comes early and violent, I think old is a relative term. Caesar purposefully isolates men from their families so they’ll focus any filial loyalty on him, so I feel like he must be significantly younger than Caesar.

Ulysses: 47-50. (Not canon.) I’m even comfortable with casting him a little older. He exudes knowledge and experience with everything he does. He seems to have been an adult when he entered the Legion — which, as discussed, gets placed 25 years ago but IDK why.

Gob: 51. (Not canon.) Acts very young (could just be learned helplessness), so I’ve got his age frozen at like 20. He’d been a slave for fifteen years as of 2277, so I gave him about 12 years of being happy in Underworld with Carol.

James: 51-52, depending when you got around to the main storyline. He would be 55, but… yeah.

Joshua Graham: 54. (Not canon.) He says he was “young” 35 years ago when the Legion began. 19 is the standard age for Mormon men to go on their mission trips, and it’s also an important age in my version of the Fallout universe (i.e. the age I ruin my characters’ lives). I also like the idea of Joshua being a little younger and more sheltered than Edward, it makes his path to darkness more interesting.

Edward Sallow: 55. Again, this guy was my little brother’s age when one day he just decided to take over the world.

Star Paladin Cross: 60. (Not canon.) She’s a cyborg, so I think her cybernetics kept her in fighting shape a little longer.

Lily Bowen: 203. They turned her into a nightkin at 75! :((((((

Rex: 209. Ultimate immortal doggie.

Fawkes: 227. (Not canon.) I’m basing this on the cut Sheldon Delacroix logs, which would imply he moved into Vault 87 as a married adult.

Carol: 230. There’s some debate on this because she claims to have been a little girl when the bombs fell, but from her perspective I imagine everyone is a little child.

(my) Sole Survivor: 233. (Not canon.) Nora is a lawyer, and most American lawyers are 25 or older when they pass the bar. She also probably didn’t get married or have a child during law school (if she did… queen), so she’d have to be at least 26 or 27 during the prologue. I have her at 29 to make her the same age as my other two protagonists. Besties!

Raul Tejada: 234. By his dialogue, I had assumed he was a teenager during the Great War, but it turns out he was about 30. Multigenerational households FTW. Which probably means his age is frozen somewhere in his thirties and he’s not actually elderly. (Not that ghoul lore is actually consistent. Also, I’m not going to be the one to tell him it’s all in his head.)

Robert House: 261. Bro was born in 2020. Why, why would you do that to yourself?

Some of these are completely unsubstantiated so feel free to correct me or give your own opinion. I’ll probably edit if I think of more.

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