#right I'm aware this is a topic nobody else actually cares about That Much but I had fun and that's what matters

[batsplat]

do you have any more thoughts on sete&vale rivalry? ps. love your blog!

I ALWAYS have more thoughts about the sete/valentino rivalry and if there is one person on this website who wants to read them then let's fucking go. so my issue is that when I looked at this ask the first time I thought I could maybe give like. a few thoughts. just some casual fun takes. the problem is I've been doing that anyway in my other posts, but there's really only so much point in doing that if I'm not providing any context on events that are by this point two decades old. so. time for some actual context

this isn't going to be exhaustive by any stretch of the imagination. what I'm covering here is two/three incredibly interesting years of motogp that deserve to be experienced and studied in their entirety, but alas I am but one poster on one microblogging website. so this is very much going to be the whistle-stop tour of explaining feuds, before a little bit of analysis to cap things off. (would like to state for the record that I called it 'whistle-stop' when this post was a lot shorter than it is now, but I'm leaving this paragraph in because it'll get funnier the longer you scroll. it's still not exhaustive but it's a lot more exhaustive than I thought it'd be when I wrote those sentences)

this rivalry began in an odd, uncertain period of valentino's career, at a time when valentino had essentially won motogp. he had just concluded his 2002 season and sealed his second premier class title in the process, with his results that year consisting of eleven wins, four second places and a single retirement. it was more or less as good as it gets, crushingly dominant, the undisputed lord and master of all he surveyed etc etc etc. and yet it was also a time where he was ill at ease with his role within the sport and was struggling with motivation, so much so that he increasingly found himself no longer taking joy in his racing. he ended up being so disillusioned with the existing state of affairs that he decided to make a radical move to redefine himself, to control his own destiny, to take the step from a great to a legend

which is all very abstract, in a way, removed from the realities of racing or indeed competition. this was a time in which no other rider could come close to matching valentino as a competitor and everyone basically knew as much. it adds an odd flavour to the challenges an athlete faces, where the success is such that it warps everyone's understanding of what success even looks like (not helped by how the last dominant athlete in the sport, mick doohan, also had a silly good track record in his prime). you could say, if you want, that 2002 is all about sowing, all about vale having so much success that it's started to feel a bit too easy, where he was just coasting on a wave of his own brilliance. 2003? well, now we've gotten to the reaping stage, where he's suffering under the expectations he himself has created, and all this winning is maybe already getting kind of boring

the first task in sports is not to be better than everyone else - it is to win. being better helps, but it has never been strictly necessary. there was no serious question at any point during his rivalry with gibernau who the better rider was between the pair of them. perhaps even more importantly, there was no question who the stronger between the two of them should be. over the years, valentino would have to deal with more than his fair share of young talent who proved they could match him in ability, the riders who had already long been marked for greatness and had the potential to be valentino's successors to the throne. gibernau was not that man - he was older, he was less accomplished, he was a revelation rather than anointed. it's one thing to be challenged by an alien, quite the other to be beaten by a bog standard human. especially if the bar for what constitutes being 'beaten' is set pretty low - never mind full seasons, should you even be losing individual races to this new challenger?

the rivalry between valentino and sete is not one of two equals, neither in ability nor in how their success was measured. but it became one that spawned a close title fight, courtesy of valentino unexpectedly wrestling the yamaha into title contention against his former employers at the first time of asking. valentino's main pressures in those years did not come because of any other rider, including sete - they stemmed from external forces such as honda or the press, from his internal struggles, and eventually were self-imposed in his decision to take a step into the unknown and join yamaha. the shape that this rivalry took reflected the disparity between the pair of them at every stage. valentino's biggest enemy during those years only ever could have been himself - so could sete exert himself upon this narrative at all? was he only relevant as long as valentino let him be? has he been so conclusively beaten that he has allowed valentino to erase him from his story entirely?

the first task in sports isn't to be better than everyone else... but it usually isn't quite this low down on the order of priorities. when 'being better than everyone else' is taken as read, then where does the narrative tension come from? usually, this is the kind of issue that commercial stakeholders and broadcasters and journalists and fans care about - not the dominant athlete of the time. but valentino is a storyteller and he does care. he can't handle stagnation. he can't handle being bored. he needs something to fight for and someone to fight and he needs all of it to happen on his own terms. the rivalry between valentino and sete becomes about everything except who the better rider is - and they happen to be perfectly suited characters for a rivalry such as this. for something that feels a little removed from the typical pressures of competition, of simply doing all you can to win, to beat the other guy, in whatever way you can, to rack up one victory after the other... but what we're primarily talking about here isn't numbers, it's theatre. it's show. and it's about two men who are particularly in tune with the artifice of it all, who are particularly concerned with how the world perceives them. valentino always knows where the camera is, always knows to play to it - and sete knows where it is too, which is what valentino uses to unsettle him to the point of despair

so, that's the set-up. let's bring in the context. what I'll cover here is mostly limited to what transpires during the years in which the rivalry is at its most prominent, aka 2003-05-ish, and mostly stays away from its legacy or repercussions. the first bit covers sete's emergence as valentino's rival, then how he becomes honda's best hope of stopping valentino, then the controversy that ruined their relationship, and finally how sete falls apart. after that, I'll give some of my thoughts about the rivalry and how it functions as a narrative. but again, there's a lot that's being left out here - like the bits of my notes that are just a tally of every misfortune that befalls sete gibernau post-qatar 2004. remember, kids: curses are a nasty nasty business and should be wielded with care

becoming the challenger

sete's rise to becoming a legitimate title contender was in some ways as unlikely as the manner of his downfall. born in december of 1972, so six-and-a-bit years older than valentino, his grandfather was a titan in the motorcycling industry and he grew up both affluent and surrounded by bikes. he's unusually well-educated for a rider, proficient in languages even by paddock standards - and, like valentino, a bit of an aberration from the mould of the stereotypical nineties bike racer. the reputation he had was for being a bit too vain, a bit too metropolitan, too self-absorbed to be suited to the rough-and-tumble of elite motorcycle racing

by the time he signed with the gresini honda team in 2003, his track record was very far from that of a title contender. after various wildcards in the mid-nineties, he'd finally managed to get a permanent seat first in 250cc and then in 500cc. eventually racing for repsol honda and taking doohan's bike when he was injured badly enough to force his retirement, sete's initial promise remained largely unfulfilled and he was dropped by honda after the 2000 season. he joined suzuki, who were struggling immensely in the aftermath of their title courtesy of kenny roberts jr. sete did get his first premier class win in valencia in 2001 in mixed conditions - a rare race that year valentino did not win after making a conservative tyre choice at a track he's in any case always been dreadful at. in 2002, suzuki was still struggling, though the wet conditions in estoril gave sete a chance for an early duel with valentino until he crashed. valentino said afterwards he felt sorry for sete (in a nice way not a condescending way)

^sete's first ever win came in valencia far far ahead of valentino in a lowly eleventh place. incidentally, it was there that a year prior vale's late charge to an increasingly plausible rookie 500cc title came unstuck. it's fair to say it's not exactly his favourite circuit on the calendar, which some might call a sign of good taste

and then, the move to gresini honda in 2003 - to which he also brought his sponsor telefonica, who became the team's title sponsor for the next few years. as I'm sure fans of the current era are able to appreciate, while it might have been a step from a factory to a satellite squad it was a very obvious competitive upgrade. he may not have had the newest spec of honda, unlike his teammate, but he was still satisfied with his machinery and his new team

sete and valentino had already had a good relationship at this point, a friendship that extended beyond paddock walls. they'd get drunk together after races, party together on ibiza over the summer holidays - and of course there's the story of sete giving valentino advice upon his transition to 500cc. previously, valentino's most notable rivals had come from other factories, whether kenny roberts jr on the suzuki or max biaggi on the yamaha. but honda had poached biaggi for the 2003 season and - after a brief blip in 2000 -were establishing themselves once again as the overwhelmingly dominant force of the sport, boasting an embarrassment of riches both in the engineering department and in their formidable host of riders. they were the undisputed kings of motogp and were comfortable in knowing that their bikes were so good that the riders were far from essential, all easy enough to replace if they had to be. all of which meant valentino knew going into that year that his most significant challenges were likely to come from within his own house, though he would hardly have expected sete to lead the charge

but then, a tragedy in the very first race of 2003 changed things. in suzuka, gresini honda rider daijiro kato crashed and hit one of the walls, later succumbing to his injuries. kato had been a 250cc champion and was widely tipped as a future premier class champion, japan's best hope for a first in that category. even though gibernau and kato had only been teammates for a short time, sete had immediately felt welcomed within the team and had worked together closely with kato over winter testing, including helping him out in the wet conditions in which kato had long struggled

the brutality of racing is such that two weeks later, the grid were to line up again at welkom. and it was there that gibernau secured an unlikely, fantastical win from pole position holding off valentino along the way. he dedicated his victory to his fallen teammate - who he said had been with him when he was riding. he wore kato's #74 on his leathers for the rest of his career. whether rightly or wrongly, paddock consensus was that the events had transformed gibernau, had made him into someone who took his racing more seriously, had made him finally commit all his mind and body and soul to riding, to fighting, to winning

^pointing up to the sky at welkom 2003. the number 74 is prominently placed on his upper chest to the right

it also had another effect. kato's death sparked controversy due to the layout of the suzuka track, the decision of the officials not to halt the race, and the rescue workers who had failed to follow proper medical procedure in moving him. both sete and valentino reportedly said they would not race there again, and it did end up being the last year grand prix motorcycle racing came to that track. it also prompted conversations about what could be done to better protect riders - and sete was one of the main figures behind the idea that riders themselves should have more of a say in safety standards. this led to the establishment of the safety commission, which back then included fewer riders but both valentino and especially sete involved themselves in

^sete at a safety commission meeting

did the tragedy really transform sete's fortunes as a racer? perhaps, though the switch to honda and a team he grew so fond of surely would have helped in any case. still, the contrast in his results and how he went about achieving them is stark; we'll never know for certain, but it's understandable why it's such a popular interpretation. another factor, too - despite some initial resistance, sete ended up inheriting kato's factory-spec machinery and was now riding the same bike as the other primary contenders of that season. the first half of his 2003 quickly cemented his new status within the factory, winning again in le mans, and then in assen. by the time they reached the halfway point of the season after donington park, sete was in second place in the standings, just clear of biaggi and only 34 points behind valentino

which is where we get back to valentino and ask ourselves what the hell that man thought he was playing at. did he really believe that it was all right to sit on a mere 34-point lead halfway through the season? was valentino, at the tender age of twenty four, already washed? was he finished? was this the beginning of the end? had he already peaked? did he just not have it in him any more?

obviously the answer to all of those things is 'no' and also 'what?' - but these were questions that many, most notably in the italian press, were in all seriousness asking anyone who would listen. now, valentino had theoretically just won in donington, except en route he had overtaken under a yellow flag and was controversially stripped of that victory after the fact. which meant that - you may want to hold onto something here - valentino had gone for a whole three races without winning. that's right. three races. granted, he'd already secured three victories that season and had been on the podium every single race, but the pressure was beginning to mount on valentino to deliver. it wasn't just the three race losing streak, but also the emergence of sete as a serious rival and how he had gotten the better of valentino - first at welkom by holding him off, then at le mans by beating him on the very last lap. valentino had also separately fucked up in a duel against capirossi for the victory in catalunya (funnily enough not one of the valentino duels there everyone remembers), eventually making a big enough mistake he had to spend the rest of the race recovering to second. honda had expectations, the italian press had standards, and the sheer dominance of his 2002 campaign meant that even the slightest dips in form translated into criticism of valentino and speculation on the state of his mettle or lack thereof. and things were about to get even worse

last race before the summer break and they're headed to the sachsenring - and here we were provided with a classic valentino performance right until the very moment where it wasn't. when sete caught up with him, valentino let him go ahead to study him from behind and crack him at the very end. he made his move on the penultimate corner of the race and successfully got ahead - but made a mistake in picking a very tight line into the final corner and lost too much speed, allowing sete to beat him to the line by a mere 0.06s. the general perception was that this had been a winnable race, and that it had been lost, more than anything else, out of arrogance. he could have attacked earlier - and if he didn't, then at the very least he should have been smarter about the final corner. he had allowed sete to beat him in a straight fight for the third time that year, who was now on four wins that season to valentino's three. all this meant that valentino's winless streak had been extended to four. that's right. you heard me. valentino rossi, the man they call the goat, had the audacity to go a whole. four. races. without. winning. the italian press had a field day and were calling for blood, and who could blame them?

^sete gibernau posing for a photo with a washed-up loser

luckily, valentino had the summer break to go off and clear his head and think about what he'd done. it was a good chance to get away from the constant scrutiny and criticism that had come during a year in which he'd already been feeling discontent with honda from the very beginning. the perception was that valentino had had it too easy and was resting on his laurels, no longer taking racing seriously enough, coasting on past successes that he was finding it hard to replicate - never mind his 29-point lead in the championship standings. so valentino ends up doing what is sensible in that situation. has a hot girl crisis. goes to ibiza. gets his hair dyed red. rocks up at the paddock for brno with his cool new hair as a bit of a throwback - he's still that guy who knows to have fun, he won't let any of this get to him, he's not going to take any of this too seriously

here's a more in-depth post on brno 2003 including, of course, his celebrations. to summarise - he won a tight thriller of a race and this time beat sete to the line, just about. then he celebrated by having a bunch of his fans dress up as convicts and donning his own cap and ball and chain - a 'prisoner of his own success', if you will. another step was taken that weekend on the road that would eventually lead him to abandoning honda and signing with yamaha. and here he is in his autobiography talking about his disillusionment with honda. he's not the first athlete to feel unhappy within his team, not the first dominant sportsperson to struggle to find motivation. still, when you consider how long his career ended up lasting, there's something remarkable to how quickly it threatened to turn joyless to him. if he were one of those athletes who just needed to win to be happy, he would have been fine within honda

but that's what valentino's all about, isn't it. within honda, under the ferocious glare of the italian press, he felt trapped. he felt imprisoned. he felt burdened by the expectations that his own victories had placed on his shoulders. it isn't enough for him simply to win. not if the winning isn't happening on his own terms. not if it's just another way in which honda can show off how superior their bike is. just another means for the italian press to ramp up pressure on him in the future. if valentino doesn't win, then well, it'll be gibernau. it'll be biaggi. who cares? valentino isn't essential to honda's success - the bike is. and vale decided he could no longer accept that. he returned to his roots in brno with the haircut and the celebrations and the candlelight meetings with yamaha that demonstrated his determination to forge his own path. winning is a part of him; when he wins he uses it to express himself, to define both who he is and who he is not - which is where, of course, the rivals enter the picture. valentino delineates his self against the other as much as anyone does, expressing his identity both as a racer and as a person by drawing the line between himself and his enemy and making a spectacle of what separates them. you can only win when you beat someone else, and valentino has always understood that the vanquished is very nearly as big a part of the show as the vanquisher

but here, the relationship between valentino and sete was at the very least outwardly still warm. they were both as gracious in defeat as they were in victory - helped along by the awareness that whatever the frothing italian press might pretend, valentino was unlikely to lose that year's title. still, were tensions beginning to creep in, given how valentino retrospectively speaks in his autobiography about how both biaggi and gibernau complained he had superior machinery? how about when rumours began to fly about valentino's impending move to yamaha and sete supposedly said valentino won't have so much to laugh about the next year? or the glee valentino read on sete's face at the thought of valentino's departure from honda? another point, on the ibiza trips - it's unclear when and how many times they happened, but one source suggests they had stopped in 2003. on the other hand, the brno 2003 race commentary makes multiple references to how they'd been partying together on ibiza during the summer break (which you'd have to say is pretty remarkable in itself after a race like sachsenring), and I'm inclined to trust the race commentary on this one. so maybe it's 2004 the trips tail off... at what point then did the relationship between the two of them begin to transform from friends to true rivals, however genial to begin with? how wary had valentino already grown of sete by the end of 2003?

^age old tradition. sete buddy that kid is going to ruin you

in any case, the remainder of valentino's season was close to flawless, winning five of the six remaining races. in sepang, having already decided he was going to sign with yamaha come what may, he sealed the title with a dominant win over sete - and brought back the convict celebrations, except this time he had a big novelty key to open the big novelty lock, presumably to signify how he could finally escape. which is charmingly on the nose, yes, but there's something enjoyable about an athlete who is so very committed to making the subtext text. how better to conclude his time with honda, who he had grown so very disillusioned with? tell them how you really feel and all that

^after vale has sealed the title at sepang. sete gives him a nice little kiss before assaulting him with champagne on the podium

or - not quite to a conclusion, not yet. after all, there were still two more races to go in 2003. in phillip island, he secured one of the more spectacular victories of his career when he once again fell foul of the 'could you please stop overtaking under yellow flags' thing - but this time, was informed of the situation and his ten second time penalty during rather than after the race. furious at the penalty, he flew off, setting a blistering pace that not only gave him the requisite ten second margin over his closest challenger capirossi, but eventually meant he crossed the line fifteen seconds ahead of his countryman. he had a point to prove that day, and proved it. he might have been on the best bike, yes - but he was laughably better than anyone else riding it, and the world still hadn't seen yet all that he was capable of

then came the last race of the season and the announcement honda and valentino would be holding a press conference together afterwards, widely expected to be announcing a split that for much of the year the paddock refused to believe might actually happen. one more ride on the honda that valentino must say farewell to and will dearly miss - that unfortunately took place at valencia, an ugly bore of a track that valentino has always been awful at, the only one on the calendar he had not yet conquered. but he needed to say goodbye to his beloved bike (decked in an austin powers-themed special livery) in style, and he went on to win the race before telling the world that him and honda were parting ways. time to go to yamaha and prove the haters and losers wrong - including one sete gibernau

^honda or yamaha, friendship can survive anything <3 quite like valentino's unorthodox spraying technique in the photo on the right - sete was admirably determined to drench vale at welkom

honda's next champion?

the thing about 2004, right, is that the dominant rider in motogp had very nicely taken himself out of the picture for at least a year to try and turn that useless pile of junk into title-contending machinery. maybe rossi would start turning things around in the second half of the year and snatch an occasional win. maybe he'd put together a title charge in 2005, though that was by no means guaranteed - it was entirely plausible that his failure would be as complete as it would be spectacular. what this meant for everyone else was that they'd basically been given a freebie. a clear run at the title, as long as they could beat all the other non-rossi challengers. for a number of blokes at honda, this was the big year. biaggi, gibernau, anyone else who was feeling brave - this was the time. and honda, right, were going all in on this. rossi had the audacity, the nerve, the sheer disrespect to turn his back on them and imagine he could win without them. every rider dreamt of being decked in their colours, and valentino had walked away. they were going to throw all the considerable money and resources at their disposal behind a small army of riders, tasked not only with beating rossi but humiliating him

this is all a bit of an exaggeration, but not too much of one. as then-yamaha rider and then-valentino friend marco melandri put it in 2003, "if valentino did come to yamaha at least he would be able to give them direction with development, but he would not have a chance of winning". the best-placed yamaha rider in the 2003 championship standings had been carlos checa in seventh, and all yamaha riders combined had achieved a grand total of one podium finish that whole year. generally speaking, however, once this kind of idle speculation of 'oh imagine if he moved' actually becomes reality, the conversation does shift accordingly, and so the initial consensus of 'surely he can't win on a yamaha' of much of 2003 was already beginning to crack by the time they actually arrived at welkom. and the relationship with honda really did end on a pretty sour note, not least because valentino's former employers refused to let vale test the yamaha before his contract expired at the end of 2003 - which is generally a pretty decent barometer of whether a rider and team are parting on good terms. as valentino put it: "their attitude pissed me off. it will cost me four races, but I always knew things would be like that". in the end, obviously he was still able to make good use of the pre-season testing he did have and he was not cost "four races" - and at the very latest people had to reassess their outlook on the season when he hit the track at welkom. if anything, his immediate pace that weekend was distinctly un-valentino-like - who needs to already be fast on a friday? - and he led every session and qualified on pole. and then, he went and achieved what still remains possibly the greatest victory of his career after a thrilling battle with old foe biaggi right to the very end. sete was a very distant third

^sete drenching vale at welkom. I am once again going to do 2004 prop and let you know that some of the best races are available free online: welkom, mugello, catalunya, assen and qatar are all on youtube (they should upload phillip island but ah well ed.: for some reason phillip island has been uploaded to facebook)

of course, valentino did not have it all his own way that year. of course, sete was not suddenly replaced by biaggi as vale's prime challenger. but yes, sete will have had to readjust his expectations of valentino's season the same as everyone else. after welkom, the conversation shifted definitively from 'surely not' to 'could he really...?' - and all other contenders were informed in no uncertain terms that they were not to be granted a rossi-free season. that being said, of course this still very much looked like sete's best chance. of course this wasn't going to be as straightforward as valentino's past titles. perhaps, even, welkom had provided a somewhat illusory picture of what the competitive landscape actually looked like that season. perhaps people had been too hasty to hand the title to valentino again after welkom. a wet weather specialist, sete secured victory in a rainy jerez, while valentino struggled to get his yamaha to work in the wet and finished fourth - his first time off the podium in twenty four races. at le mans, another race in tricky conditions, sete won once again and extended his championship lead while valentino took another fourth place. the spectacle of welkom might have been a flash in the pan; it might be time to reassess the kinds of results valentino could achieve on a regular basis with that machinery

^left: valentino having fun in the wet of jerez; right: valentino's wood-themed helmet for mugello, because if you finish fourth you get a wooden medal

what followed was a pivotal stretch of three races that turned valentino's 2004 title bid from a dream to something that felt increasingly plausible, even likely. all three of these races were extremely closely fought. all three of them are very enjoyable to watch. all three of them are freely available on youtube dot com. first, they headed to mugello, a big one for both sete and valentino. valentino had won the last two races at mugello and it was the race that was more important to him than any other - so if you're sete, where better to stamp your authority on the season? the race ended up having a little bit of everything: a ferocious multi-rider scrap, a duel between the two main title contenders, a red flag and a restart due to the worsening meteorological situation that resulted in another multi-rider scrap. valentino had to make full use of his skills as well as his composure to go out and in essence win two entirely different races. after the second start he fell back as far as seventh as he figured out the grip conditions, taking his time to fuck around before eventually fucking off (or as much as you can fuck off when you only have two and a half laps left). still, sete managed to salvage a second place result and limited the points damage

^2004 is as close to a perfect season as you can get, but there is one major factor that holds it back: the colour schemes of the title contenders. extremely similar combinations of blue with a little yellow from guys who aren't even in the same factory, let alone teammates - and jorge was always way easier to distinguish from valentino than this mess. what makes this extra stupid is that valentino's actual teammate that year, carlos checa, had a RED livery and RED leathers so. okay. great job guys. anyway, cracking race, split into two halves (or well. four fifths and a fifth). apparently, sete overtook valentino at some point under a yellow flag - or, at least, valentino says he did, which is something he remembers just in time for that year's sepang press conference

so a home victory secured and a hat trick of mugello wins - time to head back to sete land and fight it out in catalunya. top five valentino catalunya duel for sure, a pretty crowded category. sete had led every single session going into the race, but in the end he came out second best in a fight that went on until the very last lap. no longer was valentino willing to let sete get the better of him in head-to-head combat, and the victory was even sweeter coming as it did on sete's home turf - and indeed valentino would establish a bit of a tradition of beating spaniards at that track. the tide was turning and increasingly it did look like valentino might actually achieve the impossible

"One hundred and five thousand screaming Spaniards roar on their hero Sete Gibernau. He's something of an unexpected hero really. After so many years in grand prix, he lived in the shadow of Alex Criville. Criville's retired, Gibernau is on the Honda, and Gibernau is leading the world championship."

^excerpt from the catalunya 2004 commentary

and then, the next race: time for assen

^still friendly and chatting before the first real trial their relationship faces. by the by, the commentary for this race references a cartoon proposing that all that valentino needs to do to keep sete behind him is to attach a mirror to the back of his bike - because sete would be too busy posing. which gives you a general sense of the tone people used to discuss sete with

coming into this race, sete had gotten two consecutive second places to valentino. his championship lead had shrunk to five points. valentino had already gotten the yamaha into race-winning shape sooner than anyone had expected, and now it increasingly looked like he might be able to achieve the week-to-week results that won championships. it also did not help that sete's defeats had come in direct duels with valentino - in the early days of that rivalry, this exact type of duel had been how sete had announced himself as a serious threat. if it came down to another direct fight between the two of them, sete badly wanted to get a win over his rival, not just for points but for pride. and valentino, conversely, wanted to press home the advantage, to bite harder when his opponent was already bleeding. if you will

this turned into a bit of a three-way tussle between those two and barros, but then barros crashed out and it was just the two of them - going into the very last lap with sete ahead. valentino, who was having to risk far more on the yamaha than he ever did on the honda, made a lunge up the inside of turn 12 and almost binned it in the following corner. nearly losing the front resulted in contact with sete, where sete's front wheel hit the rear of vale's bike and damaged the front mudguard - and in the end sete backed off just a touch, allowing vale to cross the line with almost half a second in hand

valentino was enthusiastic in his celebrations, shall we say, whereas sete... well. sete did not look thrilled. gone were the usual parc fermé exchanges, no more hugs or friendly handshakes or kisses. sete suffered his way through the podium celebrations as the wettest of wet blankets, popping the champagne for about half a second and staying rooted in place while valentino carried on doing his thing. the natural assumption would be that sete was furious not just at losing but at the manner in which the pass for the victory was executed, out of control and in a way that could have easily resulted in a crash for both of them. valentino certainly assumed as much, saying that sete was "for sure a little bit angry" (clip here, also includes sete's statement). but when it was sete's turn to speak... he just said he was frustrated at losing, as anyone would be in his situation. which, well, doesn't quite fit in with his reaction, and also doesn't entirely match up with other statements he made at the time. there are two more sets of quotes from the protagonists of the race, though I can't determine with absolute certainty in which order these things were said. here's the first (article dated day of the race):

Gibernau lost vital time in that clash and was not able to challenge on the remainder of the lap but Rossi insists he did not deliberately block the Telefonica Movistar Honda rider. "I came into the bend a little too quickly and I slightly lost control of the front of my Yamaha, which explains why I touched him, but it wasn't intentional," he said. Gibernau did not use the incident as an excuse for his defeat. "To be overtaken in the final meters after dominating the race, it's obviously gutting," said the Spaniard. "I was angry about the way he overtook me. His manoeuvre really was risky. He said he didn't do it on purpose, but it doesn't take away my disappointment."

and here's the second (article dated the day after the race):

"I made a mistake and had to brake early or I would have crashed," said Rossi, explaining why he slowed so suddenly in front of the Spaniard. "I did not even feel Sete touch me. He was very angry, but I explained what happened." For his part, and after having chance to cool down, Gibernau appeared to accept that the contact hadn't been deliberate. "I had a good chance right until the end but we touched on the last lap - Valentino explained that he almost fell and, if that's the case, then there's nothing for me to say," shrugged Sete. "These things happen in racing. We had a good battle in another great race."

if that indeed is the order in which their statements were delivered, this whole episode feels like an interesting exercise in passive aggressive feuding - sete could have of course simply gone up to valentino, supposedly his friend, and asked for an explanation, or stated his objections openly when asked about them in the presser. instead, it seems to have been valentino who offered his explanations after sete had denied even having any issue with the overtake, with sete contradicting himself later by saying he had been angry. even then, sete said it didn't "take away my disappointment", which suggests not all was forgiven. from parc fermé to the podium to the press conference, he'd used every part of his body with full effect to express his displeasure with the notable exception of his mouth. this incident hasn't really been brought up by either party since, but as far as the eye test goes the relationship sure seemed like it was pretty strained by this. with the benefit of hindsight, it stands out as a turning point in their rivalry, the first time the veneer of the gracious loser was well and truly discarded and a sour note was added to the relationship. this was also the race where the championship lead was taken away from gibernau on countback, which incidentally was the last time an independent rider led the world championship standings until... uh... *squints at notes* argentina 2018

^already post-assen - but no reason not to be civil, right? what's a little last lap assen controversy between friends. scholars will note that this is the race after which valentino engaged in some unsavoury parc fermé activities with sete's then-teammate colin edwards

for the sake of brevity, the next part of the season is mostly going to be skipped over, but to give you the sparknotes version: sete's results grew more inconsistent, and valentino gained more of an advantage, despite still having to over-ride the bike in a way that helped cause his dnf in rio (his first dnf since brno 2002 and his first non-mechanical dnf since mugello 2001). apart from a brief period where biaggi seemed like he was going to reinsert himself in the title fight, plus a sete win in brno, for the most part the tide had clearly turned in valentino's favour and that yamaha title was looking more and more like a certainty. so let's pick up the narrative at the next major flashpoint between the pair of them, at motogp's first visit to qatar

I've already written up a post that gives more information on that race and the specifics of the controversy, so I'll forgo another detailed summary of events here. the basic facts we have at our disposal are that valentino's team, whether to his knowledge or not, rubbered up his spot of the grid, and he was then penalised for it. he worked his way up from the back of the grid before crashing out of fourth place. sete won, reducing the gap separating the two riders at the top of the standings to a mere fourteen points with three rounds to go. valentino was furious at sete, at honda, at the stewards, at pretty much everyone. here are some of his remarks:

"Gibernau's victory is not real. They stole the match from us with the shameful farce of the penalty. A truly incredible situation occurred. Everyone cleans the starting 'box'. Is there a written rule? In Rio we all went to wash the track, which was dirty. The same thing happened here. In F1 the cars skid, the asphalt is cleaned with the motorbikes. After Friday's practice [before the Saturday race] we saw Biaggi's mechanics cleaning the track and we thought it was a good idea. We cleaned the track and Honda screwed up. The others have to attach themselves to something. Gibernau and his chief suspension mechanic didn't hesitate to snitch like kids. Something ridiculous. I didn't expect to get to this point. In the race I gave a lot in the early stages, after two corners I was eighth and after four laps I was already in fourth position. I spent a lot and relaxed for a moment. Unfortunately I went wide and couldn't find the curb anymore. I made a mistake, but I wouldn't have made such a mistake if I had started from the front. I hope to make up for it in Malaysia, fortunately I didn't get hurt in the crash. It went well for the finger, when I saw the blood I was scared. But the finger didn't explode."

^some of these websites have a habit of collating a bunch of different answers into one paragraph of remarks but personally I am choosing to believe he did actually deliver this as a single monologue

valentino also said he had been looking for an excuse not to speak to sete, called him a child, saying sete had essentially stabbed him in the back. and of course, so the legend goes, he infamously vowed that sete would never win another race again

who snitched?

everything up until now has been more or less just summarising events as they happened - but now we enter considerably murkier waters. we do not definitively know one way or another what happened in qatar, who said what, who was responsible for what. let's get the less important mystery out of the way first: did valentino really curse sete?

no, not in the sense of 'did valentino rossi really perform black magic' - more the question of if he ever really said it. a lot of journalists who are otherwise at least mildly reputable seem to take it as read, but also a lot of journalists are motivated to believe he said it because it makes for a fantastic story. when did he say it? to whom? one source talks about it being at the press conference of the following race, which I know for a fact is not the case. here's a source that is one of the ones to have swayed me more to the side of 'yeah maybe he did say it':

Rossi then did an interview with Italian TV. He’d hurt his little finger, really mashed it up, in the crash. And he famously said “I will make sure Gibernau will never win another race because of this”. We’ve all got a soft spot for Valentino, and I can remember thinking ‘oh God, I wouldn’t have said that if I were you. I really wouldn’t have said that…’

I know this is objectively not a lot to go on, but at least it's a commentator/journalist who was there at the time, claiming they remember finding out about it, giving a little detail about to whom it supposedly was said ('italian tv') and having an immediate response to it that they are also remembering. obviously, this too could be bogus. but, well, at the end of the day I'm with the journalists here: I too want it to be true because it is indeed a fantastic story. there has also been the suggestion, again poorly sourced, that valentino has denied saying this - or, and this genuinely would be my favourite option of them all, that he said he only meant it for that year. hate it when I place a curse on someone and it accidentally lasts too long

now that I've done my due diligence, here's the good bit: beyond a certain point, it does not matter whether valentino actually said it or not. what mattered is that everyone thought he said it - and, crucially, as 2005 wore on, it became ever more part of the discourse. it was part of the reporting of races: could gibernau finally break the curse? it was discussed extensively in the commentary: we're back in qatar, do curses have an expiration date of a year or not? there is no way that within the claustrophobic world of the motogp paddock sete would have been been able to avoid it, let alone be unaware of it entirely. (incidentally, the fact that this is the case and I've not been able to find a better source of valentino denying it makes me again feel like he did actually say it - though I suppose it'd also be pretty funny if he hadn't said it but was like. actually this is working out quite nicely for me.) assuming for a moment that valentino is not capable of literally cursing people, the 'real effect' the curse can have is only in tormenting its victim through the mere knowledge of its supposed existence

but we're getting ahead of ourselves here. whether the curse existed or not, it could only have the effect it had if valentino fulfilled its initial promise - by denying sete another win that season while securing the title for himself. so let's just quickly recap where we're at: three rounds to go, fourteen points between the two contenders. valentino went back to italy to try and fix the fucked up finger and presumably to cool off a bit. the motogp media did what it does best and spent the entire week hyping up the drama. and there was, of course, another mystery everyone was still trying to get to the bottom of: was sete really involved in valentino's penalty?

let's first tack on another question: does it even matter? of course, the truth has never been established with 100% certainty either way, and all it does is give the two parties a reason to blow up a friendship that was already getting a little bit strained. either way, the relationship between them was ruined; either way, valentino crushed sete. not just that - whether it really happened or not is one thing, but I feel just a touch more confident in asserting that valentino believed it happened, just from my extreme vibes-based analysis of how genuinely furious he seemed and how he was still referring to sete's dirty games a whole eleven years later. which, of course, doesn't in itself really tell us one way or another what actually happened. valentino can convince himself of all manner of things. if anything, his track record as well as how ruthlessly he exploited the situation to his own advantage count against believing his version of events. and, at the end of the day, only one of valentino and sete can speak to sete's involvement in the protest that caused the penalty with complete certainty. it's not valentino

and in a way, it doesn't really matter. sete is unsettled either way - because even if he did have some hand in the penalty, this is the kind of low level petty snitching athletes and their teams constantly engage in. I cannot imagine he would have thought valentino would react as he did. quite honestly, I'm not sure sete could have conceived of a rival reacting like that to anything. if sete was responsible, then valentino still managed to escalate to a level of hostility sete would never have been able to match, let alone be comfortable with. obviously, it would not be in his interest to retroactively admit any involvement in the matter, not least because he saw how valentino responded to the mere assumption of sete's guilt. it does, however, still matter in evaluating sete's assertions that the relationship between them changed more or less from one day to the next (which *gestures at the above wall of text* I'm not entirely convinced by), and in judging whether this is a feud that's entirely built on the back of valentino's delusions. was sete really completely unaware and, a separate question - was it an unreasonable assumption from valentino that he was involved? if both of those questions are answered in the affirmative, then you do have to say what follows must have been absolutely bonkers from sete's perspective. I mean, it's kind of bonkers anyway, but. y'know. even more so

the problem with actually evaluating the claims are that basically every source about it frames the whole thing differently and often in contradictory ways, to the point where even valentino's actual allegation has been shrouded in the mists of time. different journalists and commentators and authors after the fact have confidently asserted that either hrc or sete's gresini team lodged the protest - some seem to take it as read that sete did indeed have some kind of role in it, and there is no indication whether they have some kind of privileged information that backs this up or whether this is simply valentino's influence making itself felt. hrc is obviously a likely suspect, given they canonically hate valentino and are praying for his downfall and have invested a whole lot already to bring it about. then again, gresini are the ones who are actually in this championship battle - and, of course, there's the distinct possibility that all parts of honda were involved in this together. other figures that have been brought up are gresini team principal fausto gresini who it has been claimed was personally involved in making the protest - this from the stuart barker biography, which treats it essentially as established fact. the barker biography also says that yamaha was not found to be breaking any specific rules, but race direction said it was against the 'spirit' of the sport, which... okay, I'd also be pretty annoyed to be penalised for that, especially at that stage of the season. while it is of course possible that sete was not involved in his own team's actions, it does seem a little less likely that he would not have at the very least been informed. to add another twist, one version of the story that has cropped up more than once is that valentino's allegation was that sete and his crew chief juan martinez went to hrc to get them to go to race direction. also, it may be that ducati protested both valentino and biaggi (who was definitely breaking the rules). which, good on them

unfortunately this is pretty inconclusive stuff and at a certain point it feels like you have nothing better than gut feeling to rely on to choose which narrative is more convincing to you. which is annoying! where's the substantial evidence! nowhere, it appears, not that I've been able to find it - but there is one more tangible source that I haven't brought up until now. you see, dorna, in their infinite commitment to the bit, have been kind enough to make the thursday press conference at the very next race one of the very few of that era that they have uploaded in its entirety. I am talking, of course, of the pre-event press conference at sepang

^posing for a friendly post-presser photo <3 two guys just chillin' having fun having a laff

if you are an aficionado of awkward and tense and kind of awful press conferences, then you will have an excellent time with this one. I've uploaded pretty much all of the relevant bits that I'll link to as I go; they're not obligatory watching to understand the rest of the post as I will be covering them here anyway, but they sure are interesting (and funny, which is really the most important thing)

first, let's set the scene: four blokes sitting at a table. the seat at its centre sits empty. the championship leader has not yet arrived when the press conference starts, removing the opportunity for one of the most sacred rituals that preempts any motogp press conference: the vibe check. a lot has happened and a lot has been said since the relevant parties last saw each other face to face and it is unclear where the vibes will be at when the reunion happens. will they acknowledge each other? make eye contact? shake hands? speak to each other? the journalists have not had a chance to find out. and one of the two involved parties has not either

after some softball questions relevant to 'racing' and 'points' in 'motogp' and its 'title fight', the moderator finally gets to the bit everyone's actually here for: the drama [1]. at this point, sete dates both the presser and himself by saying he's been trying to block everything out with his "mp3", before expressing his sympathy for valentino and saying he doesn't hold any of valentino's words spoken in the heat of the moment against him. at some point, he delivers a couple of lines that possess the kind of concentrated narrative juice you get a sugar high from, saying "we all know valentino. I know how he really is, he's a good guy". just as he finishes answering the question, his eyes flick over to the side - and the camera pans over to valentino entering the room with a slight smirk and of course his big ass sunglasses still very much adorning his face

nicky hayden sits to valentino's left and is interviewed before valentino is - while valentino does not acknowledge sete, who is sitting to his right. when he is questioned [2], valentino initially sounds like he is intending to turn the page on the whole affair and if anything doesn't particularly want to comment any further on what has happened. he also manages to deliver a truly classic motogp rider line, saying "I have a hole in the finger, but I think it is not a big problem for ride this weekend". right! but already here, it becomes swiftly clear that he is still furious at what happened and aggrieved by the penalty. he caps things off with a nice line saying that at least he wasn't actually slower than 'gibernau' in qatar, before turning around and shaking hayden's hand and chatting to him

it immediately becomes clear that all the questions from the floor are going to be about the same thing [3], and sete looks miserably uncomfortable while valentino just comes across as incredibly surly, his smile at times taking on a mildly murderous quality. one journalist fires off an all time classic presser question with "in qatar you say you were searching for an excuse to not talk any more with sete" and again valentino side steps, half-making it sound like he's willing to move on - while sete continues to strike a conciliatory note, continues to stress how it was all just the heat of the moment. but a follow-up question to valentino gives the journalists and sete the clearest indication that this, in fact, is really happening. valentino says this is not in the past, that he'd already said what he thinks last week and is standing by it. sete looks over at him - with disbelief, with incredulity, with the air of a man who really can't quite believe the turn this has taken

if there had been any lingering doubt at how unfairly treated valentino feels, he dispels it in his answer about stewarding decisions [4]. at the end of his exchange with the reporter about it, he brings up an incident where sete overtook under a yellow flag in mugello - which, quite honestly, I had not known about and I haven't found any reference to, so maybe nobody did spot it at the time if it indeed happened. remember, valentino had gone through not one but two bad run-ins with the yellow flag situation the year before, costing him a win at donington and making him ride at his limit to reclaim the win at phillip island. did he speak about this mugello situation at the time, or has he really just carried it around with him silently for months? a professional grudge-carrier, you have to say, a true master at the art. at the next question, valentino continues putting space between himself and sete [5], saying they have been rivals for a long time and that "it's the same condition" (i.e. situation). the friendship isn't just gone, it's so gone it might as well have never existed. if you really want to read more into this than the short response deserves, you could argue he's saying the facade has been lifted, that the true nature of the rivalry has been revealed at last

and now, we get to the critical part: sete is invited to explain himself and tell the press whether he had any involvement in the penalty or not [6]. he's clearly put a lot of thought into this in the past week and decided what he should focus on is that he wanted all the grid slots to be cleaned in the interest of safety. interestingly, he says "they" blocked him from doing that, but it's unclear whether he means gresini or someone else within honda. (presumably honda couldn't have known valentino's team would fuck about with a scooter, and remember camel honda rider biaggi also got a penalty so probably not some kind of company-wide internal memo.) (I mean I guess it'd also be funny if there had been a company-wide internal memo but nobody had thought to send it to biaggi.) sete's argument is basically that he'd be a hypocrite if he'd helped lodge a protest after he himself wanted the grid slots cleaned up - but given that valentino is quite literally calling him a backstabbing bastard, I imagine he wouldn't consider adding the hypocrite tag a bridge too far. the safety commission element of it all is kind of interesting, given as we've established valentino will likely have attended too. if sete raised this at the meeting and valentino did end up discussing it with his team, did vale end up feeling suckered into making a bad choice? probably not, just a thought

anyway, back to gibernau's response. as the journalist who asked the initial question notes, this is all a lot of waffling without a clear, firm denial (I'm paraphrasing) - and a clear, firm denial would generally be a good way to go about these things. in his next answer, sete again fails to just keep things simple, though again he denies any personal involvement. and then, the journalist asks sete to account for his team, including the fact that apparently one of sete's mechanics gave evidence to race direction... and sete says he can only speak for himself

so there we have it. that's the best singular piece of actual evidence I've got for sete's involvement, and at least comes close to confirming that somebody in gresini was involved in the protest, however tangentially. obviously, this in no way confirms sete was himself involved. at least it does give valentino an ever so slightly more reasonable basis of suspicion, though obviously it all just raises more questions like 'why was a gresini mechanic even giving evidence and what about'. that bit is then of course immediately followed by an exchange that's as good a confirmation as we're going to get that it was hrc not gresini who made the protest. so. yeah. I've got nothing. we don't know. draw your own conclusions. the presser ends with another question for good measure about the relationship between the two riders. sete first tells them, more or less, that it's none of their business before sharing a nice laugh with valentino about how valentino is never going to talk to him again

cursed

the thing about that press conference is that it's all well and good and fun to use it to try and piece together what really happened at qatar, but there are more interesting things to say about it. it is in that press conference that valentino well and truly begun the process of breaking sete, and he did so completely deliberately. it's quite the little show featuring two guys who are entirely aware that they are surrounded by cameras and reporters and are reacting accordingly. sete is committed to being dignified, to being unflappable, to being magnanimous: whatever valentino said, he will forgive him. he is happy to move on. but as the press conference progresses, he is slowly made to realise that his opponent is the one who is not ready to forgive and is not ready to play nice - not even for the cameras. especially not in front of the cameras

^his poor pinkie finger :(

sete must have felt on top of the world after qatar. he had clawed back 25 points. a championship that had already seemed lost suddenly felt like it might be in his grasp once again. valentino could complain and whine and be furious for italian television, but surely this is the kind of thing that blows over. for too long, sete is under the mistaken impression that they will move on from this. for too long in that presser, sete is playing at respectability while valentino has already progressed to open hostility. it's unnerving, of course it is, to suddenly be completely cold-shouldered and ignored by a man you had thought you were on reasonably good terms with a week ago. it's unnerving for it all to happen in front of cameras, when for so long you have been striving to present a cordial, friendly, civilised image of a rivalry. him and valentino don't do all that nasty business, not like valentino and biaggi. sete's better than that and valentino has grown up a bit - this is one of those ideal rivalries people are always going on about, the ones that are ferocious on-track but respectful and even warm off it. and so, despite everything valentino had said to the press over the past week, he still manages to completely blindside sete in the moment. he still manages to leave him unsettled, and even disoriented

and so we get to the race itself, pivotal for sete and his championship hopes. to still have a chance at clinching the title, he really needs to be fighting at the sharp end of all three of the remaining races. alas, it is not to be. valentino is reinvigorated after the humiliation of qatar and coasts through the weekend on a wave of irreverent indignation - telling reporters after qualifying on pole that this result had been important "especially since it means we know which part of the grid to clean tonight". he thrives in the chaos and the frenzied speculation and the seething tension - whereas sete is nowhere to be found all weekend. valentino wins with a comfortable margin while sete finishes a lowly seventh place. a healthy thirty point lead in the championship has been restored. now, then, in victory valentino has been provided with the opportunity to really twist in the knife. sete comes up alongside him on the cooldown lap, clearly wanting to shake hands - and valentino completely ignores him, does not as much as glance in his direction. then, he stops for one of those whimsical planned celebrations that he's ever so fond of, and he cleans his grid slot with a helpfully provided broom. as valentino says afterwards, "this time I wanted to destroy the morale of everybody". and if that wasn't enough, he adds in the post-race press conference "for me, sete did the best race of the season. he has given me a lot of points, which is like a big present. I am really grateful". charming as ever

^he also came up with his own cleaning crew founded with his trusty crew chief jerry burgess, 'la rapida', and had shirts mocked up - to 'eliminate dirt from motogp'. so nice to have a supportive crew chief, isn't it? from valentino after the race: "I've been working with jeremy for four years, together we've seen all sorts of things and when I arrived here I saw him with an incredible face, disgusted, saddened. he and the team said we had to react and so we did". and as jb put it, "valentino is the sort of rider I wouldn't want to get angry. he can take you apart on the track". the text on the shirt: "we clear out rats. we disinfect, clear drains and clean starting grids. we also do night jobs - all done in six seconds [aka the qualifying penalty he'd received]"

two races to go, and it's match point rossi. he finishes first or second at phillip island and the championship is his for certain - if he doesn't do so and sete wins the race, it's hello title decider. there is barely any doubt left in people's minds, then, about who the 2004 champion will be... but it's not a done deal. in the very worst case scenario, valentino enters the final round with a slender six point advantage. he's not safe yet. he's not safe yet on the very first lap, which, it has to be said, is a lot of fun. vale gets a better start than sete does from pole, but sete overtakes him around the outside and vale is quickly pushed to third - then fourth, at which point he runs off track and makes a risky excursion into the dirt. at the very next corner, he makes a downhill overtake on two ducatis at once, and sets about hunting down sete who has built up an advantage of over a second

so, in fittingly dramatic fashion, the race comes down to a duel between the two of them, valentino stalking sete around the track lap after lap. if valentino holds his ground, the championship is his - but sete takes the win and can go into the next season with new confidence and self-belief and hope for something better. valentino does not just want to avenge the injustice of qatar; this is an investment for the future. a way of telling sete that he has not just lost this season but that he will always lose, when fighting valentino. there is a promise to be kept, after all - whether it was only supposed to apply to that season or not, valentino refuses to let sete win another race. they exchange overtakes but sete is still just about in the lead when they enter the final lap. it is here that valentino makes his move, not once but twice to make it stick. his riding in that last lap isn't egregiously reckless but certainly not risk-free, and could have ended with him in the gravel and the championship still undecided in valencia. but he's not and it isn't - and just like his first premier class title (a comparison valentino himself makes in his autobiography), his first title with yamaha is sealed on the last lap of phillip island. his championship-winning shirt is uncharacteristically stark, reading simply 'che spettacolo' ('what a spectacle/show') - and he's not wrong. this has been a show, it's been a miracle, and in the end it's been theatre. he's sealed the title in style while also getting his revenge. it's winning in the most satisfying manner you can win anything: by beating somebody you loathe. celebrations are nice, but isn't there just something special about seeing the person you despise look so wholly miserable?

sete puts on a brave face, determined to be above valentino's pettiness. he goes over, shakes valentino's hand. valentino accepts. of course he does - he's won. sete was a few corners away from denying valentino's curse before it had ever really sunk its claws in. would it have changed things, if he could simply have regained a little confidence and found his bearings again after the psychological onslaught of the sepang weekend? maybe, maybe not. of course, looking at valentino's 2005 season, you have to say valentino was almost certainly operating on a level no version of sete would have been able to match. but there's still a lot of room between 'fighting for a championship' and 'becoming a shell of the rider you once were' - and if things had gone a little differently, you do also have to say that a championship as open as 2006 was could have represented opportunity for all manner of rider. if only he'd been able to cauterise the wound in phillip island, rather than letting valentino dig his teeth in even further

^at least capirossi's having a good time :D

the championship sealed and there's but one round to go. once again the paddock must regrettably visit a track that some critics have described as 'drab' and 'soulless' and 'the enemy of good racing', and one at which valentino has only won once before. but the way to tease out a special performance from valentino is generally to give him a point to prove, add in a little spite to get the fires spitting, and he wins at the circuit for the second (and last) time of his career. in front of the spanish fans too, which must have felt particularly satisfying - and the race itself isn't all too bad in the first half (the way valentino gets past gibernau/biaggi is quite funny). home hero sete takes fourth, and that's a wrap on the 2004 championship

there's something deceptively comfortable about the final numbers: 304 points to 257. 47 points. no problem. but sports isn't just numbers; it's the story those numbers tell. valentino was furious in qatar and he made a mistake and he ended up in a position where things don't have to go all that differently for him to lose the title. the momentum was on the side of his enemy, whose confidence and morale had been given a much-needed boost. the genius of the entire sepang weekend, from the press conference to his jibes in interviews to his dominance performance-wise to the cold shoulder to the pointed celebrations, was that they all worked together to stop that momentum cold

maybe it didn't make much of a difference - valentino was always in the stronger position given he both had a points advantage and was the faster man. but faster men have lost championships before. ignore raw pace and performance edge and all of that: valentino wrested control of the intangibles - momentum, self-belief, all of those abstract things that defy rational analysis - and brought them firmly back onto his side. sete spent the entire weekend off balance, unsettled, forced to discuss things that made him uncomfortable, engulfed in a media storm he was ill-suited to coping with. all the while, valentino relished it and used it to spur himself on. by the time sete had regrouped in phillip island and was far cooler - if still respectful - towards valentino, it was already too late

in the interest of eventually finishing this post, we're not going to cover sete's downfall in that much depth. but there is still one last critical blow that valentino has to inflict to truly bring an end to the gibernau experiment. the very first race of 2005 was one that valentino particularly wanted to win - not just to inform his competitors that this year would be more of the same, but also because they were once again on sete's home soil. time for jerez

^new year, new sete! this time he's going to show that italian upstart what's what

as ever, the media had done its best to hype up this new season. sete would be getting full support from the factory (which, yes, feels like maybe they should have considered providing a touch earlier) and he made it clear he was ready for the challenges ahead, ready to get revenge and all that. the spanish had grown fonder of their unexpected challenger too, and showed up in full force to support their man in the opening race. of course, a lot of people quietly agreed that realistically speaking, the competitive picture was looking pretty ominous. 2004 should have been the season in which valentino got the yamaha project up and running, setting up a title challenge in 2005. but he was ahead of schedule and surely the yamaha would only get stronger. still, you never know, right? that's why we line up on sunday etc etc

valentino stole pole position from sete right at the end of qualifying, but crashed in warm-up and ended up using his second bike, which is never ideal. the start was already feisty from both parties, and for a while valentino was relegated back to third. but sooner rather than later, he assumed his familiar position sitting right on sete's rear tyre, showing sete his wheel here and there just to remind him where he was. remember the whole sachsenring debacle after which valentino told himself that he wasn't going to leave it that late again? well, he was actually nice and sensible here, and made a move with two laps to go, successfully passing sete for the lead

which should have been the end of it. nice and clinical, a lovely relatively stress-free culmination of a whole race's work where valentino had diligently studied his opponent's strengths and weaknesses and had formulated his plan accordingly. job done, another win on the board to start the season. except then valentino decided to make things interesting again on the very last lap by out-braking himself on the back straight and running it wide into turn 6, allowing sete back through. there's a slightly frenetic energy with which valentino immediately hops back onto sete's rear wheel, already a touch of desperation about his lunge on the inside of turn 11 where he briefly goes past - but he's in too hot and sete's back in front

what all this means is that valentino really only has one opportunity left at turn 13 and barely any time to conceive of it. there's no planning or calculation or strategy here. valentino has one option to attack if he wants to win this race. it's a dive that is instinctive rather than planned - the only calculation here is that he would rather crash them both out than let sete win the race. back then (and a bit ironic from a modern point of view), valentino's infamous dangled leg was seen as evidence that he was out of control, doing anything he could to get the bike stopped while going for a gap that wasn't really there to be gone for. they make contact, valentino manages to get the bike turned and sete goes off into the gravel, but can get the bike back on track to finish second. valentino does a wheelie over the line. sete makes a thumbs down gesture

the spanish fans decide pretty quickly whose side they're taking in this. there's booing, whistling as valentino completes his victory lap, going full ham as he pumps his fists and claps at them and does a thumbs up and waves and puts his hand on his hip and all the rest of it as they scream at him. parc fermé is tense, the eye of the storm in the midst of the deafening roars of the crowd, with sete giving vale a couple of long looks as he gets off the bike. it's all big drama, everyone consulting their teams, talks of appeals to race direction, valentino grimly satisfied while sete is aggrieved, furious - stretching out his arm, clutching it, shaking his head while shaking teammate melandri's hand. he approaches valentino, says a few words to him as he walks past - valentino is not particularly interested in engaging in conversation. the crowd demands valentino's disqualification, and also call him a son of a whore. they're also obviously still booing. and whistling. lots of noise

on their way to the podium, sete is making tortured progress, pausing for a moment in the stairwell to clutch at his arm. at this point, valentino takes a moment to take the piss out of his rival, turning to the camera with a big smile and gesturing at sete. eventually they make it to the podium and vale laps up the displeasure of the spanish crowd. valentino smirks while sete goes for a sort of pained dignity, thanking the spanish crowd for their support, claiming the moral victory and all that. the italian anthem is almost inaudible

^sete always tried to go for a kind of stoically disapproving vibe, helped along this time by his pain in the shoulder. unfortunately for him, he does just come across as thoroughly defeated. which he was

the problem that sete faces here is that, while valentino is obviously more accustomed to a rather friendlier reception, it's also not like he particularly minds the spaniards giving him a hard time. valentino has claimed his fourth victory in succession, and has done so by once again denying sete on the very last lap. he has sent a message that this new season will be exactly the same as the last and that he remains exactly as determined to make sete's life miserable. while he does seem to think sete is playing up the shoulder injury, in general sete's solemn grimaces are like catnip to him. just before the anthem, he reaches out to shake first melandri's hand and then sete's - and sete hesitates, before extending his arm to the fullest extent to shake valentino's hand with about as little proximity as is physically possible. it's good sportsmanship, but it does also as good as tell valentino he's not going to kick up too big a fuss. in a way, whatever choice he made would have played into valentino's hands. even though this time sete may have directly confronted valentino, he's still not prepared to escalate things beyond that... and valentino knows it

^one of the classic rancid vibes podiums. the hands on hips at the ceaseless spanish booing is a nice touch

this choice to avoid further escalation is one sete continues to abide by in the press conference, echoing the assen presser from the year before beat for beat. again, valentino comments that it was a great battle, that sete is surely angry but, essentially, it is what it is ("this is the racing"). again, sete congratulates valentino for the win, but refrains from complaining about valentino's actions during the race. he has since said that he talked to race direction about it and was incredibly disillusioned about their choice not to penalise valentino - but again, not a whisper of it to the media with valentino sitting next to him

the one thing he did say was that he hoped he'd be fit to race in estoril because of his shoulder. remember the whole clutching at his arm routine where valentino (and the commentators) were kinda taking the mickey out of sete's comically pained expressions? well, um, turns out he did have a lot of pre-existing shoulder problems, and indeed that was the bit of his body that caused him considerable problems for the rest of his motogp career:

Gibernau dislocated his collarbone when he crashed out of the lead of the 2002 Portuguese Grand Prix on a Suzuki GSV-R, suffered a left shoulder tendon injury during his last turn clash with Valentino Rossi at Jerez 2005, then damaged the same shoulder further when he fell in practice for the following Estoril round. At the 2006 Catalan Grand Prix, Gibernau broke his left collarbone after spectacularly tangling with Ducati team-mate Loris Capirossi at the start of the race. Gibernau required a further operation shortly after when the titanium plate inserted to help his collarbone heal was found to have weakened. The new plate was in turn damaged when Gibernau hit Casey Stoner's fallen Honda in the penultimate round of the season, again at Estoril, marking the end of Gibernau's factory Ducati - and, it seemed - MotoGP career. Before making his 2009 MotoGP comeback, Gibernau had the metal plate removed from his collarbone, only to suffer shoulder ligament damage during training - forcing him to miss the final pre-season test.

well, anyway, after the controversy has had two weeks to continue on full steam, valentino does strike a somewhat more contrite note in the estoril pre-event press conference. he says he hadn't been aware of the whole shoulder situation and that sete had been unlucky given it had been a light touch in a slow corner... but having rewatched the footage he can see how, yes, maybe the contact could have hurt sete. these things happen, right? and at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter for valentino, because the controversy blows over. what remains is the blow (psychological rather than physical) he dealt sete. what remains is that he won and sete lost, again, and sete has still failed to win since qatar

"And I really think that as long as he wins this race, even if he only takes five points back off Valentino Rossi, he will be happy with that, because it's all about getting back to winning ways. He hasn't won since Qatar last October. He's got to take a victory, just to get his season back on course. Valentino Rossi is going to take a lot of stopping, and really all he can do is try and win this race in front of his home crowd." [...] "That race in Qatar, and the problems they had in that race with Valentino Rossi crashing out after having to start from the back of the grid was really when all the problems started, didn't it, for Sete Gibernau. [...] But really that's where his problems started, both on and off the track for Sete Gibernau after that race victory in Qatar. I really can't believe he would've believed that was going to happen. He was so, so pleased to win that race." [...] "This is a big big thirteen laps for Sete Gibernau, isn't it. If he can hold off Valentino Rossi, psychologically, it would be a very very big victory for him."

^excerpts from the catalunya 2005 commentary, the sixth round of the season. valentino had said in the presser after the preceding race that he expected biaggi and melandri to be his main rivals that season. sete leads for almost the entire race before valentino makes his race-winning overtake with three laps to go and smashes the previous circuit record on that lap

what remains is one failure after another. an important thing to stress when we talk about a 'curse' is that sete gibernau did not suddenly stop being a frontrunner after qatar 2004. he qualified on pole five times in 2005 (same as valentino, funnily enough - his average grid position was actually better than vale's, 2.82 v 4.12). even so, things go from bad to worse for sete. often valentino does his own dirty work in stopping sete when he's getting a bit too close to that elusive victory, winning a close duel in catalunya, pressuring sete into a mistake at the sachsenring, that kind of thing. often, he does not even have to. sometimes he took himself out, like crashing out of the lead in the wet conditions he was once so very skilled at in estoril (not helping his injured shoulder) or in donington park, where valentino went on to deliver perhaps the finest wet weather performance of his career to take the win

"I don't think anyone can be to blame for crashing out in these conditions, can they. [...] It really is at that stage of the season for Sete Gibernau where it's all or nothing, really just got to try and win races. We're now twelve races since his last victory at Qatar. Valentino Rossi promised after that race that Gibernau would never win another race and well it seems to be coming true so far."

^excerpt from the donington park 2005 commentary, the ninth race of the season, where sete crashed out of the lead in horrendous wet conditions

valentino's favoured way of winning races played into his hands here. pressure, pressure, pressure - preferably exerted from right behind his victim, with the knowledge that valentino is waiting and studying and ready to pounce on any mistake. even if you don't make any, he'll probably get you anyway. the effect of these defeats becomes nicely cumulative, where even the knowledge that valentino will be coming (even if he isn't there yet), that eventually he will try and pass you (even if he hasn't done so yet), is enough to make his opponents self-destruct before he even has to lift a finger. what he does to sete is the most extreme version of how that tactic typically works, by slowly eating away at sete's confidence and composure and self-belief until the eventual error feels increasingly inevitable. valentino knows it is coming, sete knows it is coming, and they both play their parts accordingly

"But Rossi straight after Gibernau, now he'll start those pressure games. Pressure is on Sete Gibernau. He has not won a race for a year; the last race win was here. And the man he doesn't speak to, he doesn't speak back to him either, Valentino Rossi, behind him, and Rossi will start exerting the pressure Rossi-style as we know." [...] "A year ago, wasn't it, it doesn't seem that long ago, doesn't it, that Sete Gibernau was so delighted to win the race here. And Valentino Rossi really left in a strop, didn't he. But there we are, Sete Gibernau - but we've seen it before, and Rossi seems so have this ability to faze him, out at the front, put pressure on him." [...] "Well, Nick, you said at the start of this race that Valentino Rossi has plenty of motivation to win this race here. He wants to take ten wins for Yamaha, it would be the first Yamaha rider ever to do that in the premier class. He wants to end a drought almost in his terms, certainly since he became a Yamaha rider - he's never gone three races without winning a race before, but that could happen today if Gibernau holds this out. And of course the one thing he really wants to stop is Sete Gibernau from winning a race one year on from the day that Rossi said he would never win another one for the rest of his career." "How long does a g-'s curse take, I mean, is it just a year, the g-'s curse and then does it come off? Because if it is then he's just about right, isn't he? [...] Perhaps the curse is gone; perhaps this is just what Sete Gibernau needed."

^excerpts from the qatar 2005 commentary, the fourteenth round of the season. sete looked like he was making a break for it ahead of valentino and then melandri. six laps to go melandri almost causes valentino to crash and costs valentino over a second, but it doesn't matter. this time it's melandri who has the honours of coaxing a mistake out of sete, who goes off into the gravel as melandri passes him. valentino overtakes melandri for the victory

sometimes, he did just seem cursed in the truest sense of the word. his bike running out of fuel on the last lap while he's still fighting valentino for the victory. mechanical dnf's. other riders barging him out of the way before valentino even has the chance to. he switched manufacturers for 2006, getting a spot on the ducati factory team: his last race with honda was ended by an engine failure and his first race with ducati was ended by an electronics failure. a freak boot protector malfunction that left his foot bleeding halfway through the race. a nasty crash in catalunya, followed by his ambulance crashing into a bus fifty metres in front of the hospital entrance. in the end, it was probably the injury caused by casey stoner bringing him down in estoril that pushed him definitively into retiring - after he was dropped by ducati in favour of casey. so it goes

obviously, valentino cannot be held responsible for anything in that last paragraph. you can't mind game your opponent into having their engine blow up, at least I don't think you can. the stuff before that is fair game. what valentino did in jerez essentially stopped the title fight before it could even get started. it was ruthlessly effective in removing sete as a significant player at the top of the sport. sure, it's always hard to attribute a competitive decline such as this one to any single factor. but if ever there was a time to maybe just blame one person...

sete more often than not has kept his silence about the rivalry. in 2005, he generally did not go much further than saying that the whole thing was one-sided and started by valentino, see this (from one of oxley's books):

But don't ask me about him as a person, I'll only speak about him from a professional point of view, that's about it. I don't know why he's got a problem with me because I've never had a problem with him. I've always had a lot of respect for everyone on the grid, I just wish everyone shared that respect, because once you lose respect you lose everything.

on a similar topic, at some point he has also spoken about the qatar controversy again, saying the following:

He blamed me but it was nothing I did. Of course I didn't report him - I didn't even see what happened. I'd had a very good relationship with Valentino for many years but after that it just came around.

in 2009, at the time of sete's ultimately short-lived motogp comeback, he went along with the slight farce of a reconciliation, shaking valentino's hand and talking to him with cameras watching - the season after valentino had regained his crown in '08. but it is fair to say not all is forgotten. at times, he has done his best to draw a line under jerez and continues to refrain from criticising valentino publicly, like this from 2017:

The Catalan avoids criticizing the Italian for any controversial maneuver, such as that of Jerez 2005. "At the time I was living, based on my values, principles and education, I tried to do things as well as I knew how. And I am very proud of what I did ." Sete explains what it means to battle Vale. "We did very nice things fighting against a phenomenon, he may be the best in the history of motorcycling. I am proud to have fought face to face with a guy who is a phenomenon," he explains.

(obviously, you can read this as valentino not following whatever values, principles or education he might have possessed.) at other times, he's been a little more openly critical. in 2020, he still did not criticise valentino as much as he did the response to the overtake, which he felt set a bad precedent and has contributed to the normalisation of a more aggressive style of racing in the years since:

I don't know how many times we've talked about that corner, but the more time goes by the more I understand after that, things change. Many people were seeing that move, and from that moment on it opened the door for it to happen many more times. At the end of the race, both of us did what we thought was best for the championship, and my opinion can be whatever. But since then things have changed in MotoGP and racing is understood, which I don't agree [with].

he also adds this:

When asked if race direction would have looked into that incident had it happened today, Gibernau responded: "To tell you the truth, no. I don't think so. "I've got different thoughts on that side, which are mine, and like I said I don't need to be right or wrong. Everyone has his own thoughts, and if I put myself now in a situation where I was watching a race and I saw what happened there [at Jerez] where two guys risking their own lives touched each other in a difficult last corner, and I was looking at it with my son who would like to become a road racer, and everyone would give the victory to a guy that has touched another one, I wouldn't be wanting that to happen. "I don't want anyone to get hurt. It's one of my priorities and it's how I understand sport and racing. MotoGP is already so dangerous that in my opinion we should all put together our know how to avoid these type of situations. Is it difficult to do? Yes. Is it impossible to do? I don't think so. It's responsibility to whoever is in charge of the championship and to put the rules where we need to stay away from this type of situation because, like I say, we're risking more than just a crash."

and even more recently, in 2023, he's spoken about the jerez race being the source of his disillusionment:

If I'm telling the truth, Jerez 2005 made me lose my enthusiasm for being in the races. I tried to maintain it until the beginning of 2006, with Ducati, and when we could have won, a mechanic left a gear screw unadjusted and the gear lever fell off. That day, in Jerez 2005, I mentally retired. Valentino went inside and took me out. They didn't penalize him. It's my personal opinion, everyone will have their own opinion and it must be respected, but I think that this is not a contact sport.

also in 2023, in a separate interview, he said this:

But he didn't get a punishment or anything, and then I started to lose my faith in the sport. [...] I couldn't understand how, y'know this was not a contact sport, I couldn't understand... things happen in the championship and things had been going on inside and everything and I just lost my - started to lose my illusion in the racing.

which is later in the same interview followed by this (which is partly about his woes in 2006 - he also talked about the moment with the gear screw, but I think pinpoints that rather than jerez as the day he mentally retired):

I had done such a big effort to put myself to a position to where, I was fighting against my own demons, I was fighting against the championship, I thought no one's helping here. I was fighting against one of the top guys in the history of racing, which was Valentino, and I just thought, but, Valentino doesn't even need to do what he's doing to win, and no one is saying nothing. There was many things there and I just couldn't understand... I'm fighting against everything, you know, and I was expecting the championship to just be a little more neutral on that side, just to say, if someone does something wrong you've got to say, in my opinion, it's not a contact sport; it's already dangerous enough to being able to say you can hit someone and say, wow, that was a great move. [...] Everyone is brave on a MotoGP bike. Moto3, Moto2, MotoGP, from the first guy to the last guy, you cannot pinpoint on TV and say how brave this guy was by hitting another guy. Because if I'm a dad watching that I would not want my son to be in a championship like this. Because it's not bravery, it's not about hitting another guy - if you want to do that, go boxing. [...] And from a guy like Valentino, which is, a superstar, why accept that? I think it was wrong, in my opinion, he didn't need to do that. Since then, many things have been happening because of that movement. Because kids saw that and said that's the way to do it. And then Marquez is doing it to this guy, and the other guy is doing it to the other guy, and you get killed in racing. It's already dangerous. We should stay away from that. That's why I never understood - it got to a point where I just - oh man. It's nothing to do with me here any more, you know, and I just left racing and I retired.

for the most part, then, sete is still quite contained in his criticisms of valentino, focusing on the jerez incident and not really delving into what happened the year prior to that. he mainly questions why valentino even felt the need to do what he did to sete, and suggests valentino set a bad example to others - especially kids watching, especially future riders. his criticisms also concern motogp as a sport, those who set the rules and those who regulate them, in not doing anything to stamp down on this kind of racing. he says he felt like he lacked support from the entirety of the sport and eventually decided that he'd had enough

I haven't added this block of text just because I enjoy transcribing large portions of three hour long podcast interviews that didn't really need to be three hours long (apparently the most tried and tested method of getting riders to share their more candid thoughts about anything) - but because this, uh, average-length tumblr post wouldn't really feel complete without it. it's all very well and good to talk about how sete was mentally 'broken' by what valentino did to him. you can have whatever opinion you want about the thoughts sete expresses here on riding standards and acceptable levels of aggression. you can also maybe doubt whether it really was just 'disillusionment' with race direction's approach to valentino's jerez pass that caused his competitive decline - obviously, three hour confessional podcast interview or not, this is a narrative he's still chosen for a reason and it sells himself and his career in a certain way. but - but - especially given the exact circumstances in which his rise to title challenger status occurred and how heavily he involved himself in the safety commission... well, at the very least I'm not going to leave it out. should he have made his complaints publicly known at the time, if this is something he felt so strongly about? is this level of criticism warranted by that specific jerez move? it's tough, because from the modern perspective of course I too have gotten used to a kind of racing where that level of contact is fairly normalised - which two riders this century have played a disproportionate role in bringing about. on the one hand, valentino is right in his defence that relatively speaking, this is far from the fastest or hardest contact out there. on the other hand, it's a move that was made with the knowledge it would result in contact. and in doing so, he injured sete, because that's what can happen even as a result of relatively 'light' touches. make up your own mind! it's not an easy topic to address, and I most certainly wouldn't be able to do it justice here. let's wrap this up

of delusion and despair

valentino has always been intensely aware of the power of narratives and takes care in how he tells his own story. the most literal version in which anyone can tell their own story is, obviously, by publishing an autobiography - which he did in 2005, covering everything up until his first title with yamaha at the end of 2004. it is not presented in chronological order and is instead organised in a far more loose thematic manner, with valentino not feeling any compulsion to give all parts of his life anywhere close to equal attention. still, when you read it, certain omissions do jump out at you - and the exclusion of gibernau is perhaps the most remarkable. you could say it's because he doesn't want to speak ill of his rivals, but he has no problem going into a fair bit of detail about his feud with biaggi. you could say it's because the gibernau rivalry was still going on at time of writing, but the same is more or less true about biaggi who placed third in the 2004 championship. there is not a single paragraph in his autobiography devoted to the relationship with gibernau. every mention of him is just that: a mention. a name thrown in without care when discussing something else entirely. you are told vale passed gibernau to win the 2004 championship - but if you read the autobiography without any other knowledge of valentino, you'd be forgiven for not realising gibernau had been his title rival at all

yes, within the grand context of his career, biaggi does have to be seen as a more significant rival... but this narrative was still being written in late 2004, at a time in which valentino had committed himself to destroying sete. maybe valentino doesn't want to comment on controversies that are still bubbling along, but the sheer extent of the erasure feels far more deliberate than that. this is somebody who had been valentino's friend for years, enough so that they spent time with each other outside of work, went on holidays together, blokes who for all intents and purposes truly liked each other's company. somebody who had been his closest rival for two years, who had pushed him closer than anyone else had in his title runs, who he had experienced some of his greatest career defeats and victories against. according to the narrative presented by the autobiography, he might as well be just any other rider. it's worse than fury, worse than loathing: it's disinterest

(it has to be said, quite possibly the funniest omission is when he's talking about how "angry and disappointed" he was after qatar because of, and I quote, "honda having lodged an appeal". ... anyone else you thought was involved, valentino? .....?)

which is quite the punishment to enact. one reason why this rivalry is so tricky to analyse is, yes, it's one that's quite old by now, but also because we are drawing from a far smaller sample size of valentino comments - almost all of which were provided at the time - when you compare it to any of his other major rivalries. sure, he still talks about jerez 2005, when he's asked about it - though it might as well just have been another fun race, another dramatic victory, another controversial overtake, rather than anything that had any greater significance. (of course, there is also a clip of him forgetting about the race entirely when thinking about last corner overtakes in the premier class with sete in the room - which you can read into if you so choose.) he's talked plenty over the years about his first yamaha title in 2004, but not about the man he beat to secure it. this was his closest title battle of the ones he won (just pipping 2009), but he might as well have won it against a faceless amalgamation of the honda corporation rather than an actual living breathing rival. it's as if that title battle started and ended in welkom, where it was biaggi not gibernau who valentino had to best. even though publicly the two of them set aside their feud in 2009 and valentino even said then that they could be friends again, this feels like lip service more than anything else. in 2015 at jerez, valentino was questioned about the parallels to his relationship with a certain other rival, who was friendly with valentino at the time but had crashed out while battling vale in the previous race. valentino in response acknowledged his past good friendship with sete, but said it was different: after qatar his relationship with sete had gotten worse as a result of how sete had "played a dirty game". if he had not changed his mind about sete's character eleven years after the fact, why would he have reevaluated in the years since?

it is fair to say that gibernau was the least talented of valentino's major rivals, the least substantial figure in terms of his accomplishments in grand prix racing. biaggi is a four time 250cc champion; nobody needs to be reminded of the achievements of stoner, lorenzo or marquez. sete is the rival who wasn't even supposed to exist; he was catapulted into the position essentially overnight by tragedy. and yet, even acknowledging that, it feels like he is under-discussed in the canon of valentino feuds given the sheer quality of their on-track output (let's face it, there are more great vale/sete battles than there are for say vale/casey) and the high drama of their closest title fight. yes, you can say that's because it is one of the older and less well-remembered rivalries, because it is not quite as dramatic and significant as the biaggi feud... but still, it's quite the disparity. given the power valentino holds in writing the stories within the sport, how can you not conclude that he has played a helping hand in this erasure? being ignored is a far greater indignity than being despised - and after 2004 valentino has barely even offered sete the honour of his hatred

^sete tried to breathe new life into his motogp career by switching to ducati, but his campaign was derailed by injuries. it was probably scant consolation in his miserable 2006 season, but valentino himself was pretty cursed that year. their last on-track battle came at phillip island, in the series' first bike swap race while valentino was fighting tooth and nail to save his doomed title defence. it's admittedly one of like twenty things that happen in that race, but it is quite funny how sete really came back to life just in time to make valentino's life harder when he really didn't need him to. valentino overtook sete on the final corner of the race for the final podium spot

of course, it is a hell of a lot easier to erase a rivalry when you win it so conclusively. in truth, as an opponent, valentino got the measure of sete fairly quickly. he never lost another direct duel against sete after sachsenring 2003, having essentially vowed as much to himself even when they were nominally still on good terms. the 2004 championship was as close as it was because of valentino's unequivocally inferior machinery and the somewhat less consistent results he achieved as a consequence - but even there, when they fought directly for the win in mugello, catalunya, assen and phillip island, each time valentino came out on top. (you can argue about brno '04 - I'd say it doesn't really count since sete ended up running away with the race with a massive tyre advantage.) still, you don't have to be winning all your direct duels with your opponents to be winning the championship - and at the end of the day, sete did come tantalisingly close to a title, or at the very least forcing a title decider. whatever it is that differentiates 'very good riders' from 'champions' is what sete is lacking. he has something in him... a self consciousness, a self awareness even, that is lethal to professional athletes. he was stuck trying to manage the image of his rivalry with valentino, when valentino was moving in for the kill. valentino too is heavily aware of image, is heavily invested in how he tells his own story - but more often than not, he manages to use it as a weapon to spur himself onwards to further success. when valentino did so once again in late 2004, sete stumbled

it is not novel to suggest that valentino needs enemies to motivate himself. plenty of people within the sport have said it, including his fellow riders. that's what's always worth remembering about the 'mind games' - sure, it's great if he unnerves his opponents, but often it is about providing himself with someone to hate though there are exceptions to this, which I have a lot of thoughts about relating to one casey stoner. valentino needs to have a reason to do what he does; it's not enough to win for the sake of winning if there's no story. in 2003, he had more or less won motogp and was finding it harder and harder to motivate himself, admitting repeatedly that he was losing his joy and passion for racing. yes, this was one of the main factors that led to the move to yamaha: to give himself a reason to keep going. but it was also just the right moment for another rival to emerge from nowhere and give valentino somebody new to focus his attentions on. when you read the limited autobiography mentions of sete and his interactions with valentino in 2003, it seems hard not to conclude valentino was already feeling a little less kindly towards sete by the end of that year. the relationship did not survive contact with a true title fight, where valentino found himself pushed closer to the limit than he ever had before. the moment he was in real danger, he blew up the relationship and walked away with literal full points for the remainder of the season. at the very next race to start off the new season, he made sure sete would never be a threat to him again

it's natural to conclude from all of this that the feud was built entirely on the back of valentino's delusions, of valentino inventing a concrete reason to despise sete that was based on his mental list of sete's past transgressions, imagined or otherwise. and maybe it was. did sete really snitch? did valentino really think he did? what was it that convinced valentino of sete's guilt? and even if sete was involved, was this really a proportionate response? this is where a lack of evidence and both parties' reticence to discuss the incident in the years since works against us. but - looking beyond the specifics of what happened in qatar, it does feel likely that the relationship would have deteriorated beyond what we saw in assen anyway. that's what a close title fight tends to do to the people involved. isn't it?

sete makes for a suitable foil to valentino because he too intensely concerns himself with how he is perceived. when vale takes on sete, one pretty boy to another, they are both a little too aware of the artifice of what they are doing, a little too concerned with the optics, the image, the spectacle. rivals, friends, enemies - how far apart are any of those things, really? can we be friends if you desperately covet what I have? if you take pleasure at the thought of my downfall? is this oft-touted ideal of a 'respectful' rivalry inevitably nothing but a facade for the ugly reality that lies beneath? 2004 is what happens when their relationship is actually tested - because now they are finally fighting for something real and they both know it. this is what happens in assen, when valentino decides he needs to win at any cost, when sete realises they are not playing the game by the same rules. sete had been performing graciousness and valentino calls him on his bluff

the best rivalries transform both parties; neither side should be allowed to emerge unchanged from the battle they share. sete entered valentino's life as a competitor at a time when everything was a little too easy and as a result a little too hard for valentino. at a time when valentino felt dissatisfied, underappreciated, judged harshly from all sides and pinned down by the weight of the world's glares. the blows sete inflicted on valentino were primarily symbolic, hurting valentino's pride and reputation rather than his title bid in 2003, which was never under any realistic threat. when valentino was at his lowest that season, he responded by bringing the joy back, reverting to type, with a new haircut and an ironic gag of a celebration and a daring victory to boot. in 2004, however, valentino changed. he had to - he was on a worse bike than his opponents that he was wrestling towards a title it had no right to be winning that year. he didn't have the kind of margin for error any more that he could afford in his honda years, no more foolishness like at the sachsenring. so he became a little tougher and a little meaner and a lot more aggressive in his racing. he shed some of the insouciance that both him and sete have at times been accused of and got down to the serious business of winning. not joylessly - after all there are few things more enjoyable than crushing the enemy. still, it's fine to be a clown prince in your downtime, not when you're barging title rivals aside in assen

it is here, then, at assen, that sete makes a critical, fatal mistake. because sete is torn in two: he wants to be the gracious rival, but he also thinks what valentino did is wrong and wants to communicate as much to the world. maybe it's because it clashes with sete's understanding of racing, maybe it's simply because sete is bitter that he lost - who's to say. except sete can't bring himself to actually say any of this. he chooses the worst possible strategy against valentino: silent disapproval and annoyance and frustration, played up for the television cameras, but without offering a single word of actual complaint until later, when valentino had already offered his explanations and half-apologies. so what valentino takes away from this is twofold. for one, he comes to believe that sete has a problem with his racing and cannot graciously accept his defeat, entirely failing to match valentino's magnanimity on the (rare) occasions when he loses. but unfortunately for sete, what valentino also learns is that - when it comes down to it - sete will not stand up for himself. valentino knows he can do this again

in sepang sete attempts to take the high ground once more, to allow valentino his transgressions and foibles and temper, to be calm in the face of vale's fury, to be the better man. in australia sete pulls himself together to shake hands with valentino, to be respectful of his rival's accomplishments and graceful in defeat, to be the better man. in jerez sete is beyond angry, furious enough to actually approach valentino in parc fermé and say a few words to him, but he still shakes valentino's hand on the podium and refuses to complain directly about him in the press conference - because he is determined to be the better man. does he think he can shame valentino into being different from what he is? if so, it is an unfortunate miscalculation. you cannot claim a moral victory against somebody who does not give a shit

for valentino, at least half the joy of racing has always been about beating the opposition. a new rival is presented to him out of nowhere - and out of him valentino fashions himself an enemy. sete was one of the first people to offer valentino advice when vale entered the premier class, but this was not the last thing valentino learned from him. because what valentino did to gibernau was different than what he did to biaggi. this was not just trying to get a rise out of a bloke he disliked every time he got half a chance. this was not valentino slowly chipping away at his victim's patience and self-control and sanity. what valentino does to gibernau is far more sudden and far more targeted and gets a far more immediate effect. he emerges from qatar weakened and on the back foot and within eight days flips the situation so that he is once again the one in command. sete, who had very much exerted himself in presenting the relationship in a certain way to the world, who wanted so badly for this to be a certain kind of rivalry, ever so respectful - well, valentino found out just where to hurt him. he did it with his sudden public coldness towards sete, with carefully chosen remarks to the press to make clear that nothing had been forgiven, with the jibes and the taunts at each and every stage of his victory. he married the off-track theatre with on-track strategy as well as pure performance, directly disrupting and disturbing sete whenever necessary - the kind of combination he would later find so useful in fending off first casey then lorenzo. it's no coincidence that his three most famous career overtakes are ones that are also so significant in how they affected valentino's fortunes in the aftermath of his victory. laguna 2008 and catalunya 2009 represent complete shifts in momentum within their respective seasons that his rivals never quite recovered from. jerez 2005 ends the title battle at the very first race. and it's not just sete's season that didn't recover - it's his career

of course, it's easier to mess with someone when you have the measure of them in performance. that's always something to keep in mind when talking about mental resilience: it's easier to bounce back from your rival being an asshole to you if you're just really, really good at what you do. valentino always understood himself that any 'mind games' had to be backed up by on-track performance; he's openly stated that all of his off-track "work" on his opponents only gets results if it's paired with being strong on the bike. and he himself lost his cool in qatar - but it helped that he knew he had what it took to bounce back. this was never a rivalry of equals; there was never any question between the two of them who the better rider was. all that being said: it's a really good rivalry! guys, there's some really great races. sete was a serious challenger and he did pose a serious threat to valentino, which you can tell because otherwise valentino never would have needed to do any of this. he made valentino grow as a rider and... do you make someone 'grow as a person' if you make them better at psychological warfare? yes, I think so. actually

valentino became a more accomplished rider for having experienced the sachsenring debacle, and he became a more accomplished rider as a result of the qatar fiasco. he motivated himself to become better because he wanted to defeat sete so badly, and isn't there something compelling about that? valentino was willing to take risks at phillip island that could have resulted in a title decider, was willing to make himself extremely unpopular with the spanish crowd at jerez (not something he has typically had much experience with) - all because he needed to crush sete, to destroy him so completely he could erase him entirely. at the end of the day, there's a bunch of reasons why this rivalry doesn't get the attention it deserve. one of them, however, is that valentino seems to be pretty happy with this state of affairs, and has spent the better part of two decades deeply disinterested in paying sete his dues. don't let him have his way

#sete gibernau #valentino rossi #// #sg15 #vr46 #sete ask yay #right I'm aware this is a topic nobody else actually cares about That Much but I had fun and that's what matters #you'd never believe this but there's quite a lot of this I ended up cutting. like I do have More Thoughts I fear #I don't love this as a piece of writing and it runs into some major tonal issues at some stages but well! post like nobody's reading etc #I feel like every time I try and add a read more it fucks the formatting of the pictures but I'm gonna trust it's. Fine

[mediapen]

Hiii

I'm so sorry for bothering you, but I'm knew to f1 and ended up stumbling your post about politics and f1 https://www.tumblr.com/mediapen/749730771207684096/when-you-guys-try-2-do-politics-it-makes-me-go?source=share and I kinda want to talk about it a little. Disclaimer: like I said I'm knew and also English is not my first language. There is no intention of hate to any driver. maybe I'm not smart enough to discuss this but...

I also keep getting some posts about this driver is far right this driver is morally bad... and aren't all of them in some way?like all of them would sacrifice all morals to win? Also f1 is a sport full of big oil money... that is already far right in itself, no?

Maybe x driver that people consider bad just don't have a good pr like the driver they consider good. Take l h for example, I think he is a incredible guy, bigger than f1, but he is also going to a team with 2 sponsors that are pro isr@el, he will sacrifice his moral in exchange to win his 8th title.

I think there's nuances to f1 and politics and how much they can talk about and stuff.

Like I said before, I don't think I'm smart enough about the subject and if this is just stupid just ignore it, but I don't think looking in a sport that is full of corruption and money laundry is the right place for politically and morally good/correct people. If it's to hold them accountable it should be everyone not just the guys they don't particularly like.

hello sorry your ask is from a while ago but i just saw it and it's a worthwhile topic for the Online People to discuss. so.

that post specifically was about people intellectually posturing inserting irrelevant geopolitical concepts they didn’t understand rather than simply being directly critical of a more straightforward action that they did understand and it annoyed me ❤️ but anyway tldr your position is basically mine. you might be new but you’ve pretty quickly found a core issue here: there’s an… interesting capacity for ignorance and forgiveness when it comes to some drivers and not others, and that's basically driven by people moralising their likes and dislikes. double standards in online fan spaces are sadly pretty pervasive, so there’s not much rational discussion to be had and the block button is your friend.

i don't know what posts you've seen because i have not been seeing them and generally heavily curate my dash, so if this is all irrelevant, ignore it lol. i've tried to discuss the points you raised, though!

the drivers' politics broadly suck. they suck! whether we know for sure about their political leanings or affiliations, it's pretty safe to assume that as a collective they will have broadly conservative leanings - likely economically (monaco residences alone should tell you a lot!), but also often socially. that's the kind of people we're working with here, and we're not even getting into the bodies actually running the sport.

it’s fine and good to want people you look up to or whatever to do better on these issues, but looking to motorsport for your idols and expecting them to be a paragon of virtue and morality is fucking laughable. expecting a bunch of guys who are largely from places of immense personal and social privilege, who have been funnelled from whatever education they actually completed straight into their sport with little exposure to the real world or real issues, to be both aware of and able to intelligently discuss issues that we as 'normal' people with university educations etc. believe are important, is at best naive. tbh i don’t care much for performative virtue signalling from people who don’t understand an issue beyond being told by a PR team to say x issue bad ❤️ and take all the plaudits from twitter user fuckhead3000 for doing fuck all else. more than anything it just speaks to this online culture of trying to make everything into a 'this guy's problematic!' contest where everything is black and white and good and bad and surface level, and nobody ever engages with issues of substance.

i know you’re only using lewis as an example, but in terms of team sponsors, drivers aren’t that influential with the exception of those they bring with them. anyone expecting a driver to effectively boycott or refuse to move to/drive for a team because of their sponsors massively overestimates their power and security as individuals at a level where their continued competitive presence is never guaranteed. if we’re being critical of sponsors, though: lewis currently drives for a team with sponsors heavily involved in oil and extractive industries, on the bds list, connected to possible war crimes in sudan, illegal pollution, poor labour relations, ai companies, etc.. this stuff's SO pervasive.

lewis has made mistakes. lewis has said things that have been poorly phrased and ignorant. but lewis, almost uniquely, has consistently demonstrated self-reflection and real growth. i think he (rightly) gets a lot of grace for that - but also people don't know about or remember the 'bad' stuff. lewis has been able to use his platform and galvanise solidarity actions from some other drivers to raise social justice issues and agitate for both broad and specific change. in response, f1 itself has clamped down on his ability to use coverage of the sport to amplify his voice to that audience. he is doing what he can within an openly hostile and deeply racist environment. if he refused to drive because of sponsor relationships with his team(s), he’d lose any platform that the sport itself gives him. he'd lose his position as the only black man in f1. it'd cull his influence, which only exists because of his continued presence and success. i'm absolutely not saying you’re doing this, but holding lewis alone to higher ethical standards than any other driver is plainly racist. 

never mind sacrificing morals to win - given its history, ownership, corruption, controversies, environmental impact, etc., f1 itself arguably requires you to sacrifice your morals to even participate. everyone can decide where they fall on that: whether the tacit acceptance of the state of things implied by someone's participation is worth it for the good they can do as a result of the platform - or not. personally, i think trying to do any kind of remedial work on the sport itself would be a massive undertaking - and barring some kind of international regulatory mandate, it would have to be driven from within. in f1, i’d rather see movement towards change through participation rather than outright boycotts/non-participation, because they simply wouldn't be effective unless massively scaled.

nuance and context are important. i think in these discussions, what people need to remember is that two years ago these guys were made to race under threat of missile strikes, and only some of them felt able to speak out about the potentially serious physical harm being done to them by porpoising cars. as a mere starting point, i want to see a driver's union with teeth (and also unionised engineers, crews, etc.), because right now these guys can't (/won't) even organise effectively to ensure their own safety - never mind anything else. hope this was useful!!

#answered

[ancientagentalien]

I just wanted to get on here and talk about something real quick. It's kind of a vent post, but it has some good topics to cover. I'm sure this can be pointed towards some of you or people you know.

These were responses to a story I posted on my snapchat. Basically, my story was about the genocide going on right now. This just shows me that there are humans who aren't... human. Yknow what I mean?

If you can watch a genocide and respond like this, you are not a person. Not to me, at least. I know that probably won't hold any place in anybody heart, but I feel like it must be said. After a certain line, people are no longer people.

And seriously? "Womp womp"? I beg your finest pardon? This is about MILLIONS of innocent people dying because Isreal can't be happy with what they have. Innocent mothers, fathers, children, friends, citizens. A majority of them are dead now. And for what? Because another country couldn't continue following international laws?

Are you a sociopath, psychopath, or sadist? Those are your only options, and none of them are compliments despite what other people may tell you.

It has gotten to the point where a man from the airforce, Aaron Bushnell, set himself on fire because that was the only way his voice would be heard. And even now, they are trying to silence it. He is a hero, and you don't get to speak if you think otherwise. If he was alive and did this in any other part of history, he would be deemed a hero.

They say he was mentally ilI. I have watched the video, uncensored and past the point where he fell over. This was a fully sound man with conviction. His face, voice, and choice of words made it abundantly clear that he was fully aware of everything he was doing and the lasting effects it would have. If he were mentally ill, Palestine would be the last thing on his mind. He would have just set himself on fire without a care for anything else in the world (also, he would not be in uniform because the airforce would not have employed him). He continued to scream the words "free Palestine" as he burned alive. After it was too much and he couldn't talk, he forced himself to scream it one last time. He then shook and fell over. He died not long after, as I'm sure most of you know. This completely sane member of the American airforce's last words were "free Palestine" and we still cannot find the motivation to do anything that truly helps. What the fuck is wrong with people?

Nothing on this earth will convince me that there is anything good happening or that Isreal is the victim that they're trying to look like. Palestine can hardly create bombs powerful enough to fully take out a full building, and Isreal is a military superpower. To put that in perspective, I give you an analogy: imagine the world's most experienced and skilled basketball player matched against someone with both of their arms amputated. Does that seem fair at all? No? Then why do you think this genocide does?

How many people have to die for no reason before something actually gets done about it? Tiktok sounds and filters aren't going to help. They haven't this whole time. Money won't help. You know what will? Action. Sending people to fight and rescue. We did it when Hitler did his genocide. How is this, at its core, any different. People who don't deserve it are dying because someone else has an ideal that they think is more important than human lives.

Nobody who supports Isreal's actions is a good person. I'm ashamed to be the same species as them.

Genocide for the stupid reason of "you have to do what I want cuz I said so."

Think about that.

#palestine #free palestine #free gaza #isreal #genocide #bad people #moral compass #do better

[outrunningthedark]

Honestly whenever I see Megan I get the same type of angry I do when I’d see Gabrielle

Gabrielle was because she isn’t actually Latina and she still played that part.

But with Megan she just keeps making it worse and worse and I never cared for her to begin with, she really isn’t all that memorable and yeah I’ve seem worse acting but I’ve also seen a lot better acting. But the things I’ve because aware of that she’s said and is saying? I’m just so angry at her and with her and with this fandom because they don’t care

They don’t care when it’s about people like us. If we have disabilities or if we aren’t white or id we aren’t whatever fits with their perfect world.

So when I see those two I get so angry because it’s a reminder about how we don’t matter as much if at all to them. To the fans and cast.

Though I cannot experience the emotions felt by Latinx fans as they watched Gabrielle falsely present herself as part of the community, I can absolutely relate to the desire for ACCURATE representation. A non-Latina willingly auditioning for a role she knows doesn't belong to her is much like an able-bodied actor wanting to "play" a disabled character. I won't speak for anybody else, but when I'm forced to watch someone pretend to be "like me" I just feel...invisible. Whose story is being told on screen? 'Cause it sure as hell isn't mine. Megan ignoring ableism is obviously the one that hits harder for me (sending love to all disabled members of the Latinx community who have to deal with double the bullshit!), even more than Cocoa's homophobic rhetoric and Megan liking homophobic tweets. (Unsurprisingly, the part of Megan's social media activity that's gotten the most attention was when she co-signed the anti-Buddie crowd.) And I don't think people understand, nor care to understand, why that is. It does not matter if gays have the right marry when disabled people, no matter their sexuality or gender, are discouraged from getting married because they are afraid of losing aid and having to depend solely on their spouse, leading to potential financial strain. It does not matter if a business cannot discriminate against me simply because of my sexuality if I am unable to physically enter or maneuver around the store/building/what have you due to lack of accessibility. The LGBTQ community not-so-jokingly refers to July as "Gay Wrath Month", and then when we say "Ummm, that's cute and all, but July is actually about uplifting the disabled", suddenly...the noise stops. People weren't replacing their gay pride posts with posts about disability. They chose to avoid the topic completely. In this fandom, people are quick to call out homophobia/biphobia because we all know it when we see or hear it, right? We all know what terms and phrases are red flags, what behaviors to take note of. But ableism? Pfft, that's not a real problem. Nobody MEANS to disrespect the disabled. They just don't know any better. Did y'all excuse Cocoa's foolishness? Or Ryan's? (Didn't think so.) Then why can you excuse ableism? Not just from an actress, but from your own 'friends'? 🤔 Inquiring minds would LOVE to know.

#okay to reblog #some of y'all need to look in the mirror #anonymous #tina speaks #anti megan west

[dreamhot]

the terf rhetoric of 'well i know you said those are your pronouns but i'm going to use these ones instead, to make /me/ more comfortable :D my feelings are more important!' getting normalised so much by people who should absolutely know better makes me so upset. like gender the fuck out of c!dream nobody worth listening to cares if anyone calls c!dream she/her, but cc!dream is a real ass person who deserves his pronouns respected like anyone else.

^ all right, so first off, Yes. there's been a bit too much about this debate that errs a bit gender essentialist for my liking in general - namely in how some people are choosing to express 'feminisation' by way of giving a cis male breasts and long hair (this isn't even a strawman cos i've seen the art myself lmao). in this regard, i'd like people to pause and think about what they're implying if making a male cc look feminine is done by giving him 'female' secondary sex characteristics. smells a bit transphobic to me!

(this isn't about outfits or anything like that - just how the physical bodies have been drawn. just wanna clarify that)

on the topic of pronouns ... i think where people have gotten a bit mixed up is in conflating people who go by any pronouns (like ponk or eret) and people who have said they don't mind what you use on your own time, but who still have a personal preference. dream is in the latter category, not the former. his bios say he/him because those are his pronouns. end of story. so what does he mean when a dono asks if they can use something else and he says it's fine? well,

1) the fact that anyone would ask this ANYWAY is still bizarre to me. dream isn't a character you can project your gender headcanons onto - he's a real person. would you ask your friend who goes by she/her if you could call her anything else? i would certainly hope not. it's not any different just because dream is a cc - treat him and his preferences with the same respect.

2) HOWEVER, i could understand if someone wants to ask if a person is okay with they/them only because they/them is frequently used colloquially as the neutral, nonspecific pronoun set. that is to say, sometimes we'll use it when talking about someone indirectly without specifying who it is. for example, i might be talking to someone who doesn't watch mcyt and say 'oh yeah, there's this one creator i like cos their videos are really entertaining' - it just sort of slips out naturally when we're talking about people in vague terms. however, some people - regardless of how they identify - don't want to be referred to as they/them, and it can be worth checking to ensure you're respecting that. THAT basis for the question, i get.

basically, what i think happened is that dream was likely intending for his statement to cover the latter situation, saying he's indifferent to how people refer to him nonspecifically in impersonal contexts. however, that's very different than addressing him directly - in which case you should be using his Actual Stated Pronouns. i'm aware that you could interpret his statement to mean he doesn't actually care either way. i know. but again, his bios say he/him. if you're talking to or about dream, i think you should also be using he/him. that's just basic respect, and i wish people on twt especially would value that over their weird little gotcha games.

#smile.ask #anon #long post #fandom critical #discourse cw

[thejustmaiden]

So out of nowhere I was tagged and quoted by a SR shipper for a blog of mine posted in August of last year. Talk about throwback but, hey, gotta appreciate that level of snooping. 😉

Back in the day I actually used to encourage discourse amongst Inuyasha fans- both shippers and antis alike- but I've since realized that it's a lost cause. But for you, @feministmetalgreymon , I'll grant this exception. Just 'cause it's been a while so why the hell not. haha

I want to assure you, however, that nothing you say will ever convince me that Sesshomaru and Rin are meant to be together romantically or that the story intended it so. Nor will you find any validation here. You can ship them for all I care, but please for all that is good and holy while I have your attention try- I mean really try- to understand why it is so many of us Inuyasha fans are so against this pairing in the first place (newsflash: it's not about ship wars), and why we believe a romance between the two of them is completely and utterly out of character.

For those of you interested in reading this, the blog of mine in question that the above shipper mentions in their counter-argument is here for reference. It's titled "Jaken = Rin's Dad?" I'm going to try and keep this short, but I'm also making no such promises. After all, I'm not exactly known for my brevity. haha Now let's get crackin'!

Like you, feministmetalgreymon, did for your recent blog here where you took screenshots of mine to address certain parts, I will be doing the same and dissecting yours accordingly.

[Snippet 1]

I worked with kids for many years as a teacher, and many people in my family have too or still do. Two of them happen to be just over 5 feet which is quite short for the average adult woman living here. I've also worked alongside many a women of short stature, and never did I hear any of them complaining of issues with their students having difficulty differentiating them from their own peers just because they were short as well. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. Kids are quite smart and pick up on a lot more than you seem to give them credit for. Height is not the only characteristic they look at to determine who's an adult and who's not, and it's foolish to suggest otherwise. So unless you're a babysitter who's still in their teens and/or who has very childlike features or behavior then I'm afraid what you're getting at is total hogwash. This is just another example of how you shippers offer nothing of real substance to your reasoning, it's only ever cherry-picking or strawmanning from you guys. Stop deflecting from the real issues please, because this certainly isn't one and only winds up being a complete waste of time for all parties involved.

[Snippet 2]

Okay, calm down now. I wasn't insinuating that relationships between parents and children can't change over time in terms of how they get along. Of course that's possible, as all families experience their fair share of estrangement and abuse. What I was speaking about was in reference to the overall dynamic between the two. Because a bad mother or father can still be viewed as a parental figure to their child even if say they're not in said child's life anymore. Since Sesshomaru and Rin share a healthy bond- and just a friendly reminder that in my blog I even said that he doesn't have to necessarily be labeled her father but that a romantic relationship later would still be inappropriate- I didn't deem it necessary to address what you brought up. Plus, it kinda, umm, misses the point?? Please, let's stay on topic. And it's not captured in the screenshot, but stop acting like there isn't a small part of them that idolizes their parents at some point during childhood. Just like you mention later on how it's normal for kids to have innocent crushes on adults that they eventually grow out of? Well, guess what, the same concept applies here. Kids eventually learn that their parents are far from perfect and make mistakes too. Rin is so damn young in the OG series though that we never even get to see her reach that maturity level.

[Snippet 3]

LOL! Alright, okay, so the "unbreakable bond" bit you're mentioning was actually me quoting you sessrinners. Did you not catch that? I literally spelled it out. *sigh* The whole point I was making is that shippers like yourself make hypocritical and contradictory statements all.the.goddamn.time. One moment you guys claim that Sesshomaru and Rin were essentially strangers and meant very little to each other, only to say in the same breath a few seconds later that they were destined to be together and their bond is like no other. I agree, their bond is special, but why must that mean they're going to fall in love?

That is the root of the matter here. Too many animes/mangas have romanticized this older adult man & young girl growing up falling in love trope that it's become way too normalized and widely accepted across the world- and yes, in some cultures more than others. Sadly, you lack the awareness to recognize how this all works. You know how we know that? When we see that you shippers are so desensitized to sexualized images of girls in the media that you share posts like this one below which *subtly* imply a future romance although one half of that pairing is still just a child in the pic and then try and pass it off as cute. That's like super fucking problematic and it scares me that you can't see that (or deny you do). 🤢

After all that's said and done, Sesshomaru leaving Rin in the village with Kaede is to me the strongest indicator more than pretty much anything else he's done for Rin that proves he is her adoptive father. It's so funny to me how you somehow see the exact opposite though. 🤔 What I think is happening is that you got yourself on some squeaky clean ass shipper goggles fresh out of your little echo chamber. Because I hate to tell you, but what you're fantasizing is what you want to see and not what's actually there on screen or was written into the story. I'm strictly talking about Inuyasha and the manga of course. [For the TL; DR version skip to the last paragraph.]

Parents looking after their kids is what parents are supposed to do. A good parent will do anything to keep their child safe and ensure they are cared for, so what he did for her by leaving her there was in her best interests clearly. Besides, as a babysitter, you more than most people should understand that parents aren't always able to be there for their kids so sometimes others gotta step in to help. Haven't you heard of the saying, "it takes a village to raise a child?" Which in Rin's case is literally true! 😂 Sometimes kids are even sent off to stay with grandparents and that's who raises them instead. Or maybe they have to temporarily live with an aunt or uncle because their single parent's job requires they work out of town 4-5 days of the week so they're hardly home. But that doesn't mean that the parents care or love their kids any less, and it's foolish to assume that Sesshomaru must have thought very little of Rin simply due to the fact that he made the decision to leave her in the village. Come on, y'all are acting like he abandoned her there!!

It's just given the circumstances Sesshomaru finally came to learn that Rin traveling with him was no longer safe. I also like to think it's because he wished for her to live a more normal life and to learn how to fully trust humans again. Plus, continuing to travel with him as young as she was would have proven dangerous and unwise. Now for you to know all this and still manage to turn his past actions towards her while she was just a child into a romantic gesture is what boggles my mind. Regardless of how you look at it, from my perspective or your own, Sesshomaru is in the wrong. Either he's a father figure who impregnates his daughter at the young age of approximately 14. OR he's this man she used to travel with who maybe isn't a father to her but who nonetheless basically rapes her since kids her age can't consent to sex with an adult. Idk about you but it sounds to me like nobody here wins with either scenario we're given. In other words, you should be just as mad as we are. If only one side didn't choose to forsake their morals they know we both have in common for the sake of a ship. Welp. 🤷‍♀️

I agree, incest is disgusting but that's not the only problem we have with this pairing. A romantic bond forming between Sesshomaru and Rin would also constitute as grooming.

You realize that over the years he visited her in the village that he brought her gifts too and essentially watched her grow up right before his very eyes, right? I mean, I know you do, but I really shouldn't have to explain further why pursuing a romantic/sexual relationship with each other is plain and simple wrong. And before you say it's not because he didn't have any malintent, please understand that considering their history and power dynamic up to then that yes this is still considered grooming even if Rin supposedly "wanted it" or "made the first move." Whether you consider him her father or not, as the adult who took on a role resembling that of a caretaker in her early life- a critical developmental time for a child- Sesshomaru is obligated to turn down any advances by Rin and most definitely should not initiate any himself. As the first close adult figure she's had in her life since her parents died, it's unfathomable to imagine how Sesshomaru could go through with taking advantage of this young girl who was under his care and supervision since they met. To think he could be capable of betraying that trust sickens me to the core.

This. Now THIS is how a parent/guardian or a similar adult caretaker (babysitter, teacher, etc.) talks to a child. And, in turn, this is how some young children talk to adults. You'd be insane and delusional to deny it! We see it in our everyday lives, do we not? From where else do you think our stories draw most of their inspiration? Yes, obviously these fictional universes have aspects of fantasy that don't exist in the real world, but so how then do you suppose we're able to relate to them? The reason for that being is because these stories are written by people for people, so naturally there are going to be real life aspects embedded throughout. Sure, a little escapism doesn't hurt as we don't need to take everything so seriously, but ultimately we all need to recognize that the messages in the stories we tell matter. Most stories possess a combination of both light and dark themes, but when it specifically comes to the latter we gotta be careful with how we tackle this in children's media since kids are far more impressionable.

So if at the center of a story we have two of the main protagonists whose mom is basically their same age and to top it off she knew their dad when she was just a girl and who just so happened to help raise her, wouldn't you say that's beyond fucked up or at the very least so fucking weird? Like why would we think it's even remotely okay for our children to watch this garbage?? Really think about it. Try and be objective for once and think about how it would sound explaining this storyline to an outsider who's never watched IY or HNY. Well, antis have tried this before many times and we always get the same reaction: Ewww!

Like I said earlier, if you wanna ship it then fine, but 1) please stop seeking our approval or trying to change our minds - your ship wish came true didn't it, so why do you need us to validate it? 2) even though it's not canon, respect that we don't support this sequel portraying pedophilia in a positive light. It's harmful af to not only allow but glorify the continuation of sexualized images of young girls everywhere. And I shouldn't have to say this, but just because this trope is popular as you say does not make it right. Lolicon themes in the media have been an issue forever and it needs to stop. Yes, even some people in Japan or "the East" would agree. Shocker!

We're pissed off and rightfully so because Yashahime's TV rating is 14, not to mention it airs at the prime time kids in Japan watch TV after getting home from school. That's Towa and Setsuna's age, true, but if Rin being the mom when she's like only a year older than them (please don't argue w/ me about the math- antis have so far been right every time with it) is straight-up disgusting and not something we should be supporting or endorsing. Rin's a whole ass child!! Please don't start with the "but times were different then so her having kids at 15 is acceptable" argument either, because we've already debunked that and every other single excuse you guys throw at us. Besides, how or why would you expect young viewers to know these historical "facts" anyway, especially if as you suggest fiction doesn't affect reality so what does it matter? Yet here we are, arguing over a fictional show in real life almost a year and a half into the "Sesshomaru fucks?" sequel being announced. My ass, your ass, hell all our asses fiction doesn't affect reality!

Look, I do apologize if the tone of this blog came off as snippy or condescending at times. I do not wish you any ill will, it's just I'm not really sure what you expected to get out of all this besides maybe getting on my nerves perhaps. haha A lot of you shippers have been desperately scrambling to interact with us, lurking in our tags, jumping onto our posts screaming canon and getting so defensive even though you sought us out first. We've been sticking to our tags, so how about you stay in your lane too. By the way since we're on the topic, have you seen Twitter or Reddit?! SR shippers there are the actual worst and many Inuyasha fans (not just antis) have complained of not feeling welcomed to engage in fandom spaces anymore. Shippers swarm them and scare them off simply because fans don't like your ship and refuse to accept it. It's pathetic, really. No one should ever be bullied or harassed just because they don't like something you might. We're all fans of Inuyasha, aren't we? So let's act like it. Yashahime on the other hand, you guys are welcome to that pungent heap of trash. Fans have a right to criticize it too, but if you like it then good for you, so keep on liking it and don't mind us.

I'm almost done, but real quick back to Jaken! Let's not forget about how the official Yashahime website- which came out after my blog, mind you- described Jaken. This translation isn't the best one available but it's the only version a fellow anti friend could track down. They do recall a better one done by a native Japanese speaker who was also an anti, and that member confirmed that Jaken is indeed called Rin's babysitter. So you see, I was right in my interpretation. In the original post I did compare Jaken to a brother, but after talking to others (some comments can be found under said post) I did acknowledge that he's more of a reluctant babysitter who's not related. And if he's not at least a brother to Rin, then he's definitely not her father.

At the end of the day, the creator Rumiko Takahashi has the final word. Which is guess what? Hogosha. 💖 Probably should've just started out with that and saved us all the trouble, huh? Good day/night to you.

Papamaru bids you adieu now. 🤞

#anti yashahime #anti sessrin #sesshomaru is rin's dad #papamaru #hogosha 💖 #the sequel may not be canon but sunrise can still burn in hell

[knockknockchicagopd]

❛ A PSYCHO? ❜

❚❙ REQUEST BY ANON: Headcanon 8 with Will please.

❚❙ Headcanon: Secret admirer.

❚❙ WILL HALSTEAD MASTERLIST.

❚❙ WORDS: about 1k

❚❙ A/N: this writing hasn’t been edited, you may find some grammar mistakes, I’m sorry about that. If you find a description about body or a word out of place, or something that makes you feel uncomfortable / unrepresented, let me know by a private message and I will change it delighted.

❚❙ GIF credits: to the author.

❚❙ Tag list: @melblacc @rebelwrites @skyofficialxx @sesamepancakes @scarletsoldierrr @mondefantastique @that-chick212 @enbyamaro @inlovewith3 @ocetevasgirl @destynelseclipsa @jadakiss13 @mcgreads @graniairish @teller258316. If you want to be added to my tag list, send me a message.

At first, when you receive a bouquet, you don't give it as much importance as Maggie and April do, thinking that maybe they're from a grateful patient.

Until you realize that it's a coincidence that, whoever sent them, chose sunflowers. Not many people know they're your favorites and that's when curiosity invades you.

You can't help but fixate on every man in the hospital. Mainly in your friends, the ones who maybe have heard you talking about small details like the fact that you love sunflowers.

In your free time, you write a list of names.

You need to know it. Not everybody makes a gift like this in these kinds of times. 

But after a couple of days without any sign else, you start to find random sticky notes in your office, your locker, even on the windshield of your car.

And they all know what to say to make you feel better.

If it has been a bad day, you find one saying ‘everything is gonna be okay’ or ‘I've missed your smile today’.

If it has been a good day, the ones you find are the type of ‘you did an amazing job today’, ‘you're the best nurse I know’, ‘people should learn from you’.

You talk about it with your friends every day.

Even Sharon asks you if you have found another one at the end of your shift.

Everybody looks excited about your secret admirer. 

But you aren't able to discover who he is.

And you really want to know it. Not only because of curiosity but because you want to thank him for brightening up your days. Mostly, the darkest ones.

He has earned all your attention. You can't stop commenting about it being the main topic of talks in Molly's.

You don't care about Connor saying that he must be a coward for not revealing his identity; or about Ethan saying that he must be too ugly.

You don't care about his appearance, that's for real. A man who worries about you, about not seeing you smile; a man who praises your hard work deserves your interest.

Natalie and Sarah have helped you try to discover him, after a month.

And no one of you will admit that maybe you tried to bribe the security guys to watch the hospital footage. Not even that you made Atwater try to investigate the flower shop.

But when a young patient brings you a Snickers to the library with a sticky note on it saying ‘you're close, I just hope you don't hate me when you discover who I am’, your list of names comes down to three. And two don't have sense.

Being aware that he is watching you right now, reading it, you pretend to continue studying for your next exam.

Until he leaves the library.

Secret Admirer reunion. 

You can't believe who has been doing it all this time. Your friends either.

Sharon, Maggie, April, Natalie, and Sarah are on the edge of their nerves waiting for you to say the name out loud.

Will.

“Will? Halstead?” They all ask in unison. “How do you know it?”

“He's the one who never says anything about my secret admirer. And he was trying to not look like he was very focused on seeing my reaction with the last note”.

“Didn't know Halstead could be this romantic… He's more like an asshole with girls”. April is more surprised than anyone there.

“So, which is the next step?”

The crazy ideas go from implicating his brother to a home invasion to prepare him a date. But everything sounds too illegal.

At this point, Daniel joins your prank.

Oh, God bless Doctor Charles.

He knows exactly how to make Will confess.

At Molly's.

Surrounded by all your colleagues from the hospital.

“I'm tired of that guy. Seriously, if he likes me, why just don't… say it? I mean, what's the point of staying in the shadow?”

“Do you know secret admirers are considered psychopaths?”

The laughs fill up the bar.

“Explain that, Doctor Charles”. You are choking on your beer, not expecting it.

“The difference between a secret admirer and a stalker is the fact that a stalker feels an obsession for his target. But they share more similarities than people actually know. Without keeping in mind that a rejected secret admirer can turn into a stalker or, even, into a killer”.

“A killer?”

“Exactly. By rejecting him, you hurt his ego, his manhood. The feeling of not being good enough, of being insufficient for his beloved, can develop killer instincts”.

“If I can't have you, nobody will”. Wise words from Sharon.

“Should I talk to… Dawson or Voight?” You whisper pretending to be scared and confused, seeing Daniel nodding with his lips pressed against the edge of his glass of whisky. “Okay… I'm gonna text Antonio before this gets ou—”.

“I'm not a serial killer!”

FINALLY.

Everybody at the table looks at Will and the gesture of confusion is installed on his face.

Then, he realizes what is going on.

It was a trap.

And it worked to perfection.

“C'mon! Why didn't you simply ask me?”

“'Cause it wouldn't have been fun, Halstead!”

“You all are a bunch of traitors”. Will points at all your friends, who break in laughs. “And you… Doctor Charles… You should know I'm pretty far from being a psycho”.

“I do”.

“Okay, we're leaving you alone”. April giggles palming Will's back, before turning towards you. “Just in case, keep your phone close”.

You have never seen him blushing till his cheeks have the same color as his hair. And he looks really cute.

You can't stop smiling.

And he can't look you in your face.

“So… are you gonna ask me for a date or…?”

“You want?”

“Of course I want, idiot. Been waiting for it for a long month. So don't you dare to tell me you don't wanna go on a date”.

#lemme know what you think in a comment! ⚡ #one chicago #will halstead #will halstead x reader #chicago med #chicago med x reader #chicago med imagine

[stargaze-issei]

ᴅᴀʏ 3; ғᴀᴠᴏʀɪᴛᴇ ʙᴀᴄᴋɢʀᴏᴜɴᴅ sᴛᴏʀʏ

-> kageyama tobio

𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐦𝐩𝐭; kageyama finds comfort through middle school in his teammate's little sister, kunimi y/n. (ficlet/scenario)

𝐰𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬; mentions of bullying.

𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐝 𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭; 1.6k

𝐠𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐞; fluff.

since you were little, akira was always there. mom and dad had jobs, which meant they were away from dusk till dawn. your brother walked you to school, picked you up, made dinner every day until you were big enough to help him. he hated doing those stuff, if he could've been lazy, he would've, but his responsibility to you was bigger. as you grew up, the one year difference started to become less and less noticable, then it wasn't him getting up earlier to make breakfast, it was you waking him up or he'd be late for school. you started to realize that your brother wasn't the knight in shining armor you thought he was, he was a normal school boy, not that it was a bad thing, but to wake up from your childish world was certainly a bummer. when akira got into middle school, he chose the one closer to your elementary school. to your surprise, a certain club activity had caught his eye, which lead to you waiting on the bleachers most days, refusing to go home alone. you liked spending time with him.

soon, you started taking part in their trainings, picking up balls, delivering water, learning everything from watching. the coach had took you in as an apprentice, much to akira's surprise. once you got to middle school, you were officially the team's manager. all akira's friends, if you could call them that, were your friends too. except for one. the wonder setter, kageyama tobio, avoided conversation with you at all costs, even if you wanted to give him some advice on their plays, or hand him a towel after practice. your brother didn't bothered with those small things, but it was exasperating to you.

"do you know if kageyama-kun has problems at home?" kindaichi had accompanied the kunimi siblings on their way home, with the excuse of having a project to do with akira. you, right between of them, gained weird looks from both.

"i don't think so" aswered kindaichi, kunimi couldn't care less about his troubles at home, instead, he caught on a detail.

"since when he's kageyama-kun?"

"he has always been kageyama-kun"

"no, only coach calls him that" to your silence, he scrunched his nose in a a disgusted mock "maybe that's why he doesn't like you"

"he doesn't like me!?" the two boys laughed at your reaction, there were few people allowed to hear akira's laugh, both you and kindaichi were glad to be one of them.

that conversation stuck in your brain through the day, and the one after, even at practice. you never gave it much thought to it, but now you realized how everyone showed kageyama a funny amount of respect, your classmates on the very edge of calling him '-sama'. if that is what he's used to, no wonder he didn't like you. your mind had gone through a complete rollercoaster, triggered by coach asking you to deliver a few papers to your upperclassman. when you finally divised him, sitting alone in his homeroom, you gulped nervously.

"um, hey, uh, coach asked me to give you this, so, there it is... kageyama-san" be aware, kageyama instantly knew something was bothering you. despite his dark aura, you always treated him like an equal, not being affraid of talking to him or call him less formal honorifics. he liked that, a lot. you, in your own way, made him feel normal.

as you handed him the papers with new game strategies, your eyes met his. your whole body paralyzed, being unable to let go of the pieces both of you were grabbing.

"don't call me that" his mouth spoke by itself, followed by a subtle blush on his cheeks.

"what?" now you were flustered, and your unconscious aggressive response made kageyama feel more nervous than he already was.

"well, y-you used to call me, uh, kageyama-kun, and n–"

"oh! i thought– nevermind, it's not important, kageyama-kun".

tobio had to pinch his arm to erase the smile on his face the rest of the day.

*.✧☆ﾟ.*･｡✧*⊰⊹ฺ

the team had grown apart, everyone could see that. more than once you argued with the coach, who stated that as long as they won, nothing else mattered. you disagreed. akira usually spoke with kindaichi about how tired they were of keeping up with "the king in the court", how they called kageyama, sicked by his selfish way of playing. they weren't wrong, kageyama lived up to his reputation, but nobody tried to help him either.

"he's fourteen! he needs help and you should give it to him! stop being a lousy coach and do something! you were there for oikawa senpai, be there for kageyama!" the coach was fond of you, but he was done with your constant yelling and reprimanding.

"if you don't like how i do things, you're welcome to leave" and you did. you left the team you loved as a family, shoving the feeling of impotence down your throat.

that was nothing compared to your fight with your brother hours after coach gave them the news, one of the few times he actually worried and got involved in your doings.

"the only way for you to go to aoba jōsai is through a scholarship! a scholarship which coach decides who recommend or not!" your house was filled with screams, an unusual situation in the kunimi household.

"i can't stand by when you're basically bullying kageyama and coach lets you!"

"stop being dumb and don't risk your future because of that jerk!"

"you're more of a jerk than he is, akira!"

it ended with you ignoring your brother for almost a week, and he doing the same. if there was one thing he was, besides lazy, was prideful. and you weren't behind in that topic.

kageyama, who had a habit of watching you through the day, could see that too. it was none of his business, he knew that, but you seemed so upset...

"hey, uh, kunimi-chan" he sat beside you during lunch break, he was aware that you had lunch in the yard and not in the cafeteria, looking for a quieter place.

"call me y/n, please" despite being angry at the world, you did your best to treat him nicely. he needed someone nice in his life.

"y/n" he muttered, more to himself than to you "i'm, i noticed that... you're upset, i wanted to make sure you are okay" he was so innocently sweet, you thought, you couldn't escape a smile.

"it's been a rough week" you answered, not wanting to say why you fought coach and akira.

"i know a thing or two about rough weeks" so it did bother him what his teammates were doing. a small feeling of relief went through your body, you weren't fighting a lost cause. both stayed silence for a few minutes, before you spoke.

"i'm sorry" he looked at you, confused "for akira and kindaichi". out of nowhere, he laughed, and your heart skipped a beat.

"you don't have to apologize for what your brother does, it's not your fault he's not good enough to keep up with me". there it was, the usual kageyama. despite of the sour flavor of hearing someone talk down on your idiot brother, you giggled, his honesty was quite entertaining.

"i meant... nothing, it's fine" that was the longest conversation kageyama had had with anyone outside of the court in a long time "i have to go" it was true, you were meeting a teacher for extra credit, he looked at you walking away, and blushed when you turned around catching him. "thanks for caring" and with that, you left.

he didn't know what it meant the marathon his heart was running, or his sweaty hands, or that smile glued on his face. he hoped it was something good.

*.✧☆ﾟ.*･｡✧*⊰⊹ฺ

the third years were finally graduating, yūtarō couldn't shut up about it. akira was kind enough, a rare act on your brother, to let him talk all he wanted. last day of school, but kageyama was nowhere around, making hard your wish to congratulate him. looking through the hallways on every floor, you heard a conversation between two girls.

"what is the volleyball team going to do without their stars now?" one teased.

"don't be silly, after their last game, i doubt they can play together anymore" you knew they lost their last game, but akira said it was nothing. curiosity burning in your lungs, you had to ask the girls what they were talking about. "the spikers left the setter by himself, the wouldn't hit any ball, like, on purpose".

oh you were going to kill akira, he had gone to far. but most importantly, you had to find kageyama. thirty minutes later, you found him sitting in a stair just as the last bell rang. he was officially a high schooler now. to see him, sitting alone, hoping anybody would find him, broke your heart into tiny pieces.

"congratulations, kageyama senpai" you spoke taking a place by his side. he wasn't his usual self with you.

"you don't have to" he was sulking hard.

"but i want to" his eyes opened wide when your two arms wrapped his shoulders into a warm hug. no one outside his family ever hug him. he stayed there, enjoying the closeness while trying to avoid the fact that a girl, no, you were hugging him. "what highschool are you going?" kageyama's hope went too far up, hoping to see you at his new highschool someday.

"karasuno".

"i guess i'll see you there, then".

⌙𝟐𝟎𝟎 𝐟𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰𝐞𝐫𝐬 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥 🥳

#kageyama tobio #kageyama x reader #haikyuu #haikyuu kageyama #haikyuu x y/n #haikyuu x reader #kageyama fluff #kageyama tobio x reader #kageyama imagines #haikyuu imagines #haikyuu scenarios #haikyuu fluff #haikyuucreations #– star's; originals! [❀]

[giorgiastastes]

버닝 / Burning (2018)

"It's too close, you might not see it"

What to say about this movie...

The film itself is quite simple, even too easy at first sighting I'd dare to say, but the meaning behind, the interpretations and smart details is what makes it unique and pretty much a masterpiece.

I'm sure that most people, or at least those who usually watch unchallenging to elaborate movies, won't like it. If you're looking for something what will be "explained to you", for the director to give you that big plot twist or long monologue, you won't find it here. But if you want to watch a work of art that'll make you think, reflect and crash your minds, you have a good journey in front of you.

I remember that as soon as I've finished watching it I went online to look for theories, to see if someone else had the same idea as me, if I got it right and what I've missed, and then I planned to write here my thoughts on the real explaination, but after rewatching and searching I've figured it out BURNING doesn't really have a "true" explaination in my idea, or better, the director definitely knows what he believes is the so called truth, but the strength of it is how free of interpretations it is. I've read hundreds theories and honestly all of them could fit just right, so for once I've decided to do something different.

In here I will summarize all the theories, under layers and explaination that I've read, figured out or found, and I will leave to you, the reader, to believe your own "truth"

This will be full of spoilers, it's actually a summarization of the after watch, so read at your own risk, and since I'm taking for granted that you've watched the movie and remember it quite well too, I won't always repeat the plot when not necessary.

• Ben sells organs on the black market. That's how he gets his money and Haemi is aware of this, and decided to sell her own organs to pay off her debt. She even says I'D SELL MY ORGANS IF I WERE YOUNGER. She could also be unaware of this and that's why she dissapears.

• Ben is a serial killer. He seduces fragile women who are very easy preys to such an handsome and carismactic young man, and then gets rid of them after he gets tired. This happens about every couple of months, which corresponds to his journey in Africa timeline. They are the greenhouses he burns, because he knows nobody will look for them, and in fact the police does not care about the greenhouses, just like they don't care about missing women nobody knows about.

Ben also owns all the qualities of a maniac sociopath who's keen on control and feels no emotion or empathy. He never cries for example. He also feels pride in his crime and he's almost tempted to confess them to show how good he is. That's why he says to Jongsu that he will burn a greenhouse close to him, but he didn't mean it in a special terminology, but more like in an emotional sense. He will kill the the closest thing the other has, which is Haemi. He also states that she dissapeared like "smoke".

This would also be justified by the creepy call the protagonist receives by Haemi before she dissapears. The biggest evidence placed by the director to prove that this theory is the most correct one is in the last scene, where Ben is putting makeup on a new girl. For a non Korean speaker it's quite hard to get the reference but Makeup and corpses' cremation are spelled in the same way in the hangul language, therefore the movie showing us Ben doing the girl's makeup is the alternative way to say he's killed her and is now cremating the body, hence his obsession with fires.

He's the one who cleaned Haemi's room and took her cat. He also keeps his victims personal objects as a throphy of some sort.

• Ben is a pimp. He's the trainer for these beautiful, young but poor women who are ready to sell themselves when he convinces them to do so. This is shown as Haemi also become less and less shy as the movie goes on, as seen in the undressing scene, while being more bold and provocative too. He changed her drastically, or maybe only let her discover a different, more free, part of herself. He also applies makeup on them how he would do to a doll, playing dress up for a woman who's now becoming just an object of desire that can be bought.

• Ben is a human trafficker. He sends women into slavery while promising them a life of luxury and happiness. That's why he shows off his idyllic lifestyle, and then sells them in Africa (where he goes frequently), where they'll never be found.

• Ben is a life guru. He teaches unsecure and frustrated women to feel liberated and less oppressed, to leave it all behind and start from scratch. They pay him, that's why he's rich. He also keeps a "souvenir" of every woman he has turned. This could explain why he shows up to the meeting with Jongsu in the finale. If he actually killed or sold these women he wouldn't fall into the other man's trick.

• Ben doesn't exist. He's just the symbol of everything Jongsu is not but aspires to be. He's rich, confident, cultured and attractive. Every flaw and layer of insecurity Jongsu seems to have, Ben lacks. And in the end, when the protagonist finally becomes brave enough to mature, to actually chase the woman he loves, he's able to kill the shadow of himself that only reminded him of how miserable he was.

• Ben and Jongsu are the same person. Much Fight Club like, they're the same human being, just different, extreme sides of one. Jongsu could have a personality disorder or maybe we're just shown two sides of him that prove his mental health issues. That's also why Haemi seems to be involved with both of them without choosing a side, because one is the gentle but insecure fraction, the other the bold but arrogant one. And then, in the end, when such division is making him go insane, he decides to kill his alter ego.

• It's just a love triangle. One of my favorite songs of all time had a similar topic. There's the main character, a shy and quiet boy, who falls in love with a girl who feels foreign and unreachable to him. But he's not the only one in her life. She also has another lover who's much more attractive and manly in a way, and all three start to share this peculiar poliamorous love story, mostly platonic. She's very pretty and feels as free as Venus, torn between two men. Then one day she leaves, and she'll never come back. But while the second boy easily moves on with his life, figuring out it was just a näive fling, the singer remains stuck, obsessing over her day and night, trying to find answers and solutions just not to deal with the realization of her not loving him enough to stay.

• Every character represents a social stereotypes and criticism of modern South Korean classes. I think this is very straightforward, especially Jongsu's jealousy of Ben's wealth, and Haemi's attempt to RISE in the social pyramid, surrounding herself with high class people like Ben or his friends, even letting them make joke of her, to mock her, all of it just to feel part of their group and reality.

• It's all in Jongsu's head.

• The disappearance of Haemi, whether it happened or not or HOW it happened are not the main focus on the movie, which instead is the characters dealing with such loss and lack of knowledge on what happened. Much like the Russian movie Loveless (2017), where the event is only used as an artistical device to let the story progress and the characters' grief culminate. Maybe we really don't need to know what happened to her, maybe she's dead, maybe she's alive and better than ever, but to the movie's intent such information is superficial, it's just the human need to fill our curiosity when were too afraid to deal with the pain of remaining unaware of it. Jongsu is sure she's been killed and that brings him to his next move, but the viewer, he doesn't need to know, because he doesn't need to act, to keep the story going.

• Haemi might have killed herself. Ben is the only one who knows about this and that's why she gives him her cat. She also shows multiple signs of advanced depression, for more than half of the movie is almost like she's not there, like she's already just the memory, the ghost of a girl who once was there.

• The movie itself is just a metaphor. The metaphor is many times used by the characters and maybe not only as a word, part of a dialogue, but the overall film might be A BIG, CRIPTIC METAPHOR.

• Everything is hereditary. From family's fortunes and richness to behavior and inner rage. Jongsu was born poor and will die as such just like his father, and even though he seems like the most innocuous being, he's able to take out his rage on other just like this father. I guess it's in the genes.

• Jongsu is the calf. The calf represents Jongsu's pureness and naivety. And when he sells it, he's also selling his soul in a way.

• Haemi represents South Korea, Jongsu North Korea, Ben is the new Korea, the one always more and more Westernized.

• We're just reading the plot of Jongsu's book. When Haemi leaves for Africa he has plenty of time to write the story he's planning to put into words, and that's what he does. Everything we see after she comes back from her journey is just the plot of the book, and the creation of Jongsu's imagination.

• A modern reinterpretation of the Great Gatsby. Yes, obviously a VERY liberate view of the novel, but many details seem to be quite evocative.

• A criticism to how South Korea treats women. Even the movie itself does this, probably on purpose. The one who disappears is a woman, but the ones who are the main centre of attention are men. She's only a story device, never the real protagonist.

• Ben wanted Jongsu to discover his crimes so he could reach fame if the other ever made a book out of it. He's so full of himself he'd rather be punished for his crimes than never showing off how good he was at covering every proof. That's why he dies almost peacefully, and shed a tear, which he claimed to have never done before.

• The well Haemi reference to, symbolizes falling into prostitution. That's why Jongsu's mother knows about it too, since it's quite obvious she's now an escort. But she states the well is dry, as a way of saying that it's not how easy and fun it might seem.

• This is just the tragic story of a boy who's lost every possible source of love. From his father in jail, his mother who abandoned him, to the only girl that ever showed him affection disappearing, and a new friend who he decides to kill.

• Ben is Death or maybe the devil personified. He helps Haemi get the courage to end it one for all, and even pushes Jongsu to kill, cursing his soul.

#burning #burning 2018 #lee chang dong #Steven yeun #steven yeun #yoo ah in #jeon jong seo #beoning #버닝 #버닝먹튀 #south korea #cannes

[lesbeet]

Have you seen the latest discourse about if ADHD would exist under communism? I know you've talked about it before and I'm curious what your take is!

oy dfjlksjdf yes i’ve seen it, and as usual i think it’s a matter of people talking past each other more than anything else (at least from the posts i’ve seen)

i could be wrong, but my interpretation of the conversation is basically that the Communists (idk if this is even an accurate distinction bc i don’t necessarily think the “other side” is anticommunist? but ykwim) are trying to discuss the nature of “disorders”/disability in general, and how it’s a societal structure that designates people as either Able To Be Exploited By Capitalism or Unable To Be Exploited By Capitalism—in other words, if we took capitalism out of the equation and really examined what’s considered a disability vs what isn’t, it would seem like a pretty arbitrary line to draw. not because the underlying physical/neurological conditions would cease to exist, but because much of what is considered “abnormal” or “disordered” etc would not cause distress bc of a struggle to operate within the narrow and rigid confines of being “Normal” as determined by capitalism

the opposition, from what i’ve seen, seems to be, yes, less familiar with these ideas/maybe not as well-read on the topic, and are basically saying “okay, but even if a lot of my ‘symptoms’ wouldn’t cause me distress under capitalism, there are others that will—i’ll probably still struggle to feed myself, whether that’s bc i forget to eat, or i have trouble preparing food for myself, etc”

and then rather than trying to explain themselves further most of the Communists are like “under communism someone else can feed you <3 read a book <3″ which is....not at all helpful lmfao

like first off i think that’s such a bad-faith response to a bad-faith reading of these people’s concerns, and second, while nobody is obligated to educate other people etc etc, at a certain point i think that if you’re gonna make posts about stuff like this you’re kind of inviting a conversation, right? and it’s not really a conversation if the only people you’ll engage with in good faith are the ones who already agree with you.

i think the other side came across as defensive, certainly, but it’s not difficult to see where that comes from—people w adhd (among many many other things obviously, but this conversation seemed to be primarily about adhd) are used to being ignored or patronized or treated as if we don’t understand our own experiences, we’re told that our struggles don’t exist, etc. and it looked like a lot of the Communists have experienced/do experience the same thing in their real lives or whatever, so i’m not really sure why there’s such a lack of understanding and compassion on their part

so basically they’re talking about two different things. one side is saying that “people with adhd” (or, more broadly, “people with disabilities”) as a distinct category of people would not exist under communism, and the other side is saying “sure, but that doesn’t mean all of my adhd symptoms will magically disappear” and the first side is saying “but none of it will matter, dummies! you don’t understand communism!” which again, is not helpful!

and because they’re really talking about two different issues, i kind of agree and disagree with both sides. i’m fully on board with the idea that disability a distinction/class/etc would not exist under communism (ideally we’d have individualized medicine/care anyway imo), that adhd as a diagnosis wouldn’t be useful, and also that many adhd symptoms that can be completely debilitating in our current society would cause us significantly less distress, especially in our external lives

that being said....there is a neurological component to adhd which would still exist under communism. i’ll still probably struggle to have conversations without spacing out and/or taking over and not being able to get myself to shut up, which would still cause problems in my personal relationships with people. i would still probably struggle with organization and getting myself to do tasks which don’t interest me, etc. and even though i trust that the Communist Side is well aware of this, "someone else will do it!” seems like a ridiculous answer to me bc like...i have to assume that some level of personal responsibility will still exist lol

and i saw someone say "nobody's saying your individual symptoms wouldn't exist at all under communism" -- except i literally HAVE seen people say exactly that lmao

but anyways it's tough bc first of all, we were all raised in the same capitalist hellscape that made it purposely ultra difficult to imagine our lives without it, and second of all, despite knowing that there's not really a material basis for adhd as a distinct Disorder™, for a lot of people (myself included) even having the label makes a difference. like my life genuinely changed when i started looking into adhd and when i got the diagnosis and started taking meds etc, but mostly it was the sheer relief that there wasn't just something fundamentally and irreparably Wrong with me that meant i would have to slog through the rest of my life, struggling and unsatisfied with no recourse yknow?

and that can be dangerous because a lot of people don't exercise critical thinking like.... ever. but i feel like i understand myself well enough and know enough about adhd (at least based on the research currently out there) to be able to think through like, how my different symptoms manifest, how similar symptoms from other disorders i have manifest, how adhd in general affects the way i function, etc, which means it's slightly easier for me to parse like...what would still be a problem without capitalism and what wouldn't

so yeah like. without capitalism, adhd wouldn't exist, and while the biological basis for adhd WOULD still exist, there would (hopefully) be structures in place to manage or alleviate much of the distress that comes with those symptoms, which wouldn't be viewed as symptoms at all because they wouldn't be considered Disordered, yknow?

so like ultimately i agree w the Communist Side in this particular discussion (not shocking since i'm a communist lol) but i think the way the whole conversation has been approached is counterproductive and doesn't actually help people to understand what they're missing lol

#anonymous #answered

[epicwriting]

Good and evil in me; dealing with friends...?

The greatest good and evil that I have, both reside in the same place; my mind. My body isn't my greatest possession. Anything external to my body isn't either. I don't even own it. I'm just entrusted with these things. So what is the greatest thing I borrowed? I think it's my common sense, or the ability to distinguish. I borrowed it from god, just like every human. But why write about something so positive? Nobody cares about me praising myself into the sky right?

Because god also entrusted me we a great amount of anxiety, and the tendency to be depressed from time to time. He even lend me so much anxiety that it interferes with every aspect of my life; professional, relational and social. I therefore call it the greatest evil in me, because it interferes with duties that I think I have to the common good. I've asked god to take my anxiety back from me, but he doesn't work that way. I guess I have to use the greatest thing he gave me then, my common sense.

The medical road...

I've had therapy but it didn't completely root it out. And what's not eradicated entirely tends to grow stronger and becomes more solid over time... I've even been given the option to take medication, but I have my uncertainties about that. At first, it were mainly the side-effects that made me doubt. Now it's rather the very effect that medication might have on me that worries me.

What does medication for anxiety and depression tend to do? I think they make you more calm, but also less sensitive. It's mainly that last part that I have a problem with. If it gets rid of the anxiety in me, then doesn't it also affect my common sense? Doesn't it just take the greatest evil, but also the greatest good from me? If the greatest good I have is what I am, wouldn't I then become a different person?

But I don't want to be a different person. That is the last thing I want. Therefore it's also the last solution I'd go for. I've been dealing with anxieties my whole life and I'm not in a hurry. Every second of my life counts, but I'm not wasting them... Because I'm not running away from my problems, but I'm facing them.

Or the real road...

Perhaps I need a change of scene. Perhaps I need to shake things up, get out of my routine, move somewhere else... Not as a holiday, but as a new beginning. Old, rusted habits are difficult to change if you stay in the same place. Wherever we go, we always bring ourselves. However, our environment always whispers a certain message to us. It seems that in the west, or at least where I live, my environment is trying to tell me that I'm inadequate and need to improve. The 'difficulty level' as I like to call it, is high in my perception.

I will not elaborate too much on this because that's a topic on it's own. But let's say some people describe living in the west as a 'rat race'. This can of course be an underlying cause for anxiety to those who are prone to it.

Speaking of being prone to it; I probably am. This gives me more reason to think of my environment if it has some sort of correlation with anxiety. From experience, I know that there are other, often poorer parts of the world, where the people respond differently to you. In some places this difference is positive.

I think it boils down to the fact that in other places, people might have a different life-philosophy. Sometimes even very different from the place you originate from. In certain places, they might have a more positive or approving attitude towards you, without any effort from your part.

Whether they actually should think highly of me I don't know. But as long as my intentions are pure, what's the problem? I think I can be a better human being if my anxieties are less. And that would be my motivation to try living elsewhere.

The choice

Coming back to my question as to what I should do. I think I could give things a try in a different part of the world. I'm less than 30 years old and I think I am in good enough shape to endure some stress that will definitely come along with this. I don't think I'm on the verge of insanity, nor have I already lost my mind, so a direct treatment with medication isn't a direct necessity.

I hope you enjoyed this rather personal story about my internal thinking process. Of course I do not know for certain whether I will pull through with moving abroad. We never know what happens in the future. Certain events can make us choose differently than we thought, and that's OK. I think it's OK to have a plan for the future, but we must always remember we live in the now. We must only act at the moment when the stars align and it becomes clear what we should do at this very moment.

Disclaimer

This story is very much about myself; I'm aware of that. But I would have written it even if I didn't have a way to publish it. Writing this helped me to structure my thoughts and to consolidate them. Perhaps it is interesting for the reader as an example of a critical internal thinking process regarding big challenges in life.

#writing #creative writing #philosophy #stoicism

[mellometal]

Hey, everyone.

If you saw the post from earlier, I had to delete it. There were things I forgot to discuss and things that didn't get saved into my drafts. Sorry if you have to see this again.

I've been WAITING to talk about Glee. Not in the good way either. There's so much wrong with the show, and it's sickening. Yes, I've watched the show last year. Against my will, but that's because of other people refusing to put on anything else besides Glee. I can say that I hate Glee with my entire being. (My initial reason for hating it was because they covered "SING" by My Chemical Romance and turned it into a slow, patriotic song when it's a song about rebellion. NOTHING about "SING" is patriotic. I hated the show since I first heard about it...for that very reason. I was like thirteen or so at the time when I first heard about Glee? Despite it being out since 2009.

Though it's been over for several years now, it's a show that many people have mixed feelings about. From what I've seen, you either love Glee or you absolutely hate it. There's no in-between that I've seen. (If you can't already tell, I hate the show.)

The show is a literal dumpster fire, the characters are all fucking awful people and all of them are poorly written, the script pisses me off, it literally makes me feel disgusting, and don't even get me started on the covers. Most of the covers aren't that good. A lot of them sound like nails on a chalkboard to me. The pacing of the show makes NO sense in certain areas (like when Blaine was initially made to be a grade above Kurt, but was then changed to be like the same grade as him so he'd stay). It just feels like everyone in the show is either a Mary Sue, a Gary Stu, their whole personality is just that they're from a minority group or they're EDGY AND HARDCORE DELINQUENTS BLEEEEHHHHH, creepy as fuck, bigoted as all hell, or they're just background characters who occasionally have the spotlight.

TW: The following post and any other posts that I'll make about this show contains subject matter that may be triggering for some audiences. It will go into subjects like racism, homophobia, ableism, outing of a person in the LGBT community, bigotry in general, statutory r@pe (between teachers and students), teachers being creepy towards students, mentioned past child m0l3stati0n and invalidation of the victim's trauma, making fun of su1c1d3, making fun of overdose, making fun of drug addiction....a lot of fucked up things.

If anything mentioned above is triggering for you, please feel free to scroll and consume safe media instead. I'd rather have you be safe than to be triggered by anything I'm gonna talk about.

Let's start off easy. The characters. It's easy to tear them apart. At least the most problematic ones.

Rachel, the Main Character™️, is textbook definition of a Mary Sue. Instead of calling her Rachel, I'm gonna call her Mary Sue for the whole post. She's almost completely perfect (like too perfect), her flaws are minor if anything, she gets all the special treatment....you get the picture. When Mary Sue does anything fucked up or she says anything fucked up, it either goes unnoticed, people make up excuses for her being a shitty person, or it gets twisted so it looks like Mary Sue is the hero! (I hate her. So much. I cannot stand her.)

Aaawwww, Mary Sue didn't want some OTHER GIRL (Sunshine) to steal HER spotlight, so she SENT THIS GIRL TO A CRACK HOUSE. A FUCKING CRACK HOUSE, OF ALL PLACES. A PLACE WHERE THIS GIRL COULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN SERIOUS DANGER. THIS GIRL COULD HAVE BEEN SERIOUSLY INJURED AT BEST AND KILLED AT WORST. Yes, I'm aware not all drug houses are the same, but still. It doesn't matter what this girl did. What Sunshine did is irrelevant. It's not okay to send people to strange places where they don't know anyone, and are put in danger, even to the point of either getting injured or killed. But it's okay, because at least it's not an "active" crack house you sent Sunshine to, RIGHT, Mary Sue? You still sent some poor girl to a place where she could have been put in serious danger, even to possibly get injured or killed, all because you didn't want her to steal YOUR spotlight. You fucking disgusting, entitled, bratty cunt. You don't need the spotlight all the time anyway. THAT'S HOW THEATRE WORKS. YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET THE LEAD ROLE. YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET THE ROLE YOU WANT. AND THAT'S OKAY. YOU WORK WITH WHAT YOU GOT. Sincerely, a theatre kid.

There are other fucked up things Mary Sue has done, but this is the one thing I could find anyone talking about. If I remember correctly, she hurt her Gay Best Friend™️ Kurt in some way. All I remember is that Kurt was mad at Mary Sue about something. Mary Sue is annoying as fuck. What else can I say about her?

Next, we have Finn, who's textbook definition of a Gary Stu. I'll call him Gary Stu throughout this post. I hate this fucker too. He's the Main Character's Boyfriend™️, the Hot Quarterback™️, and The Good Guy™️. Yet....he's not a good person. He's treated like he's a good person, but he's really not. His flaws are fairly minor and excused (and any major flaws aren't even talked about much), he's almost completely perfect, and every fucked up thing he does is ignored or is justified in some way. Like how he outed Santana as lesbian in the hallway WITHIN EARSHOT OF EVERYONE. HE DIDN'T EVEN APOLOGIZE FOR THIS.

As a woman who has struggled with her sexuality growing up, this really brought back shit I went through. I "dated" boys when I was younger to cover up the fact that I'm only attracted to other women. I wasn't happy with these guys at all. I acted like I did so nobody would suspect anything. I felt nothing for them, except for in a platonic way. I've been outed twice. Once when I thought I was bisexual with a strong preference for other women (by my dad's girlfriend at the time), and when I came out as lesbian (by my brother). It sucks to be outed. The people who outed me in real life could have put me in danger. They could have made it so I had no place to go back to. They could have had me get hurt. It's a scary feeling. Like, it doesn't matter if you're supportive or if you're in the LGBT community. You don't fucking out people without their explicit permission. You especially don't out people to their abusers or to people they don't trust, let alone out them publicly. That's what happened to me. I don't wish this on anyone.

***By the way, for anyone who's closeted, you're valid, I love you, and I know how it feels to be stuck in the closet. You don't have to come out right now. Come out whenever you're ready to. Whenever it's safe for you to do so.***

Or how about the fact that Gary Stu made fun of Kurt's voice because he's gay? Gary Stu apparently has ✨anger issues✨ and that's pretty much the excuse they use to justify him doing fucked up shit to people.

They treat the characters who are from minority groups (i.e., BIPOC, AAPI, LGBT community, disabled people) like absolute garbage, put them through all this horrific shit, or they put them on a pedestal simply for being in a minority group. The teachers and other school staff are either written to be total bigots (Sue), or they're total pr3dators (Mr. Schue, the school nurse, and another teacher who I can't remember her name off the top of my head).

Sue pretty much only exists to be a poorly written villain who's a bigoted bitch just to be a bigoted bitch. Yes, there were some things she WAS right about (like how "Blurred Lines" wasn't an appropriate song choice for the Glee Club™️, but Mr. Schue The Pr3dator™️ downplayed it). Other than that...that's all I can think of. Because everything else that came out of her mouth was bigoted bullshit. Like these right here, for example:

Or how she drugged the principal, date r@ped him, and blackmailed him?

How about them making a tasteless joke about Sue committing su1c1d3 and having her "overdose" on multivitamin gummies?

DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN HOW FUCKED UP ALL OF THIS IS? I do? Well, first of all, she called people racist, homophobic, ableist, and otherwise disgusting names. She boiled them down to their race, sexual orientation, their disability, and their appearance in general. Second, SHE DRUGGED, BLACKMAILED, AND DATE R@PED SOMEBODY. I don't think I need to explain how that's bad. The evidence is right there. Third, she said she was committing "sue-icide" by overdosing on multivitamin gummies. (Yes, you actually can OD on vitamins in supplement form, and it can cause serious symptoms and even death. Specifically with vitamins A, D, E, and K, and Iron. Vitamins A, D, E, and K are fat-soluble. They're a lot harder to remove from the body. The B vitamins and vitamin C aren't as severe if you do OD on them because they're water-soluble, but still be careful. You can't OD on vitamins and minerals you find in food. If you take supplements, vitamins, etc., only take what's on the bottle.) As someone who has su1c1d@l thoughts on and off, this is extremely insulting. Yes, I do use humor and I joke about my own experiences to cope, but this? Nah. Nothing about this is funny or cute in the slightest. Enough said.

Do I need to explain how fucking terrible it is to make light of a serious topic like this? It was never funny to see Britney Spears' mental health be at that low of a point in 2007. It was never funny to see the abuse the paparazzi inflicted on her. How the fuck was this ever okay? You can dislike Britney Spears all you want, but this was never it.

This is all I have for now. I'll probably make a part two because there are way too many things to talk about.

#mello speaks #glee #i hate this show #tw racism mention #tw date r@pe mention #tw suidice #tw homophobia mention #tw ableism mention #tw drug mention #i literally hate everyone in this show so much #tw pr3dator mention (will dive deep into this in part two) #tw od mention #anti glee

[peacefulrestvalley]

A Terrible Idea

Fandom: Shall We Date? Love Tangle

Summary:  

Four knocks on the door to the captain's quarters was all the warning he had before Rami loudly shouted from the other side, "HEY CORNELIUS, OPEN UP!" and then kicked the door once.

Rami and Cornelius share a drink one night aboard the Starling Kaleido where many things are said, but nothing is as important as what is left unsaid.

Notes:  Inspired by Cornelius's Vicious story in the spin-off Personalities as well as @northernscruffycat's commentary on Rami and Cornelius's main routes because, believe it or not, I would not have put the two together without reading both of these. This piece can be implied to have occurred in the Vicious Personality timeline before the Starling Kaleido docks and he narrowly avoids being shanked by MC (who is referred to in this story as her default name, Julia Darwin).

Four knocks on the door to the captain's quarters was all the warning he had before Rami loudly shouted from the other side, "HEY CORNELIUS, OPEN UP!" and then kicked the door once.

Unlike a certain someone, Cornelius had been actually working even as late in the night as it was, busy checking weather reports and comparing them to the Starling Kaleido's course one more time before heading off to sleep.  However, Rami's hopeful intrusion had him lunging toward the door in a mad race to put an end to the loud voice that could, and most certainly would, draw the attention of a guest out for a midnight stroll - or worse, a staff member.  He swung the door open with surprising force and came face to face with Rami holding up two glasses and an unbearably bright grin.

"Hey, yo-"

"Get inside!"

Cornelius pulled him by the arm into his quarters and then shut the door behind them in a decidedly more delicate manner than how it was opened.  "Honestly," he began what Rami knew would be a tirade out of embarrassment, "you could have done anything else in the world to get my attention but that.  You know your pounding and hollering is going to draw attention, and especially so late at night you know it's going to be the wrong type of attention.  You kn--"

"But would I have gotten your attention?" Rami interrupted with his grin still plastered on as he set the glasses down on a table and began to rummage through what he knew to be the liquor cabinet.  To Cornelius's disbelief, he brought out a bottle of vodka immediately and continued to search.

The answer was no, and Cornelius knew they both were aware of it so he decided to drop the subject.  Instead, he remarked, "Did you really bring your own drinkware?  Surely you know I have my own you can use..."

"No, no, look at them," Rami responded, eyes still scanning the cabinet.  He seemed to be weighing his options.  "Hey, you got any juice?"

"There's orange juice...and I believe some cranberry juice left as well."

Rami laughed as the information delighted him.  "You drinking on the waters after all?  Nobody drinks cranberry juice alone without alcohol."

Rolling his eyes, Cornelius returned as he moved to inspect the glasses, "No, it's been leftover since the last time you had one of your...visits."

"Oh," he said as he paused with a bottle of peach schnapps in hand, "oh yeah!"  He set it on the table with the vodka and glasses.  "Man, I hope it's not expired..."

"I haven't looked."  It was a dry acknowledgment as if he hadn't cared at all, though that wasn't the case.  No, if Cornelius genuinely hadn't cared it's doubtful he would have recalled it in the first place.  "Look," he continued, "I know you want to drink, but I've got an early morning tomorrow with a busy day, and--"

Rami's interruption came as he went to the small kitchen and brought out both juices, "You're always busy.  ...Did you look at the glasses?  I got them at the last port of call.  There's one for me and one for you.  Choose whichever one is your favorite."

"Really..."  Both glasses were rather kitschy and borderline obscene so he picked up the least offensive of the two, a highball glass with a regional slogan and pair of scantily covered breasts on one side.  "I suppose this one.  If anyone peeks inside my cupboard I can at least laugh it off."

"You don't like the prescription one that implies you're an alcoholic?"

Once again, and certainly not for the last time that night, Cornelius rolled his eyes.  "Not in the least bit."

"Well, I thought it was funny."

"You're also a terrible person."

He wasn't, but Rami laughed all the same.  "Anyway," he implored, "just have one drink with me.  I know you've got an early morning but one drink won't kill ya.  It'll get you to sleep faster.  See, I'm saving you, I'm--"

"One," he cut off, emphasizing his self-imposed rule.  "So, what are you making?"

"Sex on the Beach."

"You know that's a terrible idea."

And Rami laughed hard enough that Cornelius feared the engineer or someone would overhear.  It was a laugh that wouldn't nearly have been as funny if it weren't for prior experience.  "A...terribly delicious idea," he finally spat out.

Once again, the captain rolled his eyes and suppressed a laugh that otherwise may have been difficult to contain.  Composure was a hard thing to come by at times but damn if he didn't try.

He didn't say anything but Rami went right to work with a shaker and practiced motions.  Both cranberry and orange juice were doled out in equal parts and presented in both boobs and pill glasses for their enjoyment, and Rami took the initiative and held out his glass for Cornelius to clink against in a toast: "To never having sex on the beach again."

"...What?" was his response accompanied by a laugh while Rami downed half his cocktail at once.  Of course, Cornelius would be slower with his, choosing to savor the concoction as it was the only one he would have, and took a sip to appraise the adventurer's work.  "Mm, not bad.  Definitely better than the real thing."  He raised an eyebrow, though, when Rami polluted his with a bit more vodka.

For once it was Rami's turn to roll his eyes but neither of them spoke about it.  Instead, he sat down leisurely and kicked up his feet onto the large dining table, precisely because he knew how much it irritated his companion, and gave a large, satisfied sigh: "This is the life, isn't it?"  

It wasn't, and both of them knew it, but once again it would be one of the many things between them that were left unsaid.

"You act as if you don't have an upcoming lecture."

"Well, it's not now," Rami retorted, waving his hand in an exaggerated motion. "I mean, it's not even tomorrow!  You're too serious."

"On the ship?  Yes, of course, I am.  I have to be," came Cornelius's dull response, as if it was a standard reply to a common complaint between the two - which it was.

Rami immediately went into a double finger gun gesture and teased suggestively, "But Cornelius on land...  I mean work hard, play hard, am I right?"

"...Not anymore, I suppose."  In a certain sense, it was true for many reasons, but when Rami's expression fell he added, "Just because all my time on land is devoted to her."

"That's still playing hard! Don't make it sound like you're miserable ashore."

"Sorry, that wasn't my intention. It's bliss, honestly."

As Rami finished his glass and went to work on fixing himself another, he blurted seemingly out of the blue as if it was naturally the right time and level of mutual inebriation for such a thing: 

"So...you gonna marry her?"

Cornelius paused briefly but answered in the same intonation as talking about the weather, "Probably."

Immediately Rami set a bottle down on the table louder than it needed to be and shook the shakers more robustly this time.  "Probably?  ...Cornelius, she is the best damn thing to ever happen to you, and if your life with her isn't kittens and rainbows then I will marry her and be happy instead!"  

It was a strange threat but Cornelius only looked at his glass, half-empty with sex on the beach as its only memory.  "You're reading too much into things," he began and tried to hide how desperately he wanted Rami off his back for this topic; one drink just wasn't enough for that.  "I love her so much, but it's been a long day - and tomorrow's going to be longer.  Honestly, I'm thinking about the ship and my passengers right now, not the ring I want you to help me design for her..."

This was the first Rami had heard of this obvious distraction, but he nodded because that was respectable.  It was understandable.  Also, he was included.  Rami stuck his index finger out at the captain before he polished off half his second cocktail and prophesied, "...And she's gonna fucking love it."  

He may or may not have pre-gamed coming to the captain's quarters.

Cornelius knew which it was.

"So," Rami began as he sat comfortably back down, "how is Julia?  How are the animals?  Her job?  Her life?  You know, I text her these things to get a conversation going and all she answers is fine."

Cornelius definitely knew which it was.  

"Honestly, she thinks her life pales in comparison to your adventures, so that may be where your lukewarm responses stem from with her."

He pointed his finger repeatedly but had no response because the finger had done all the talking - he knew it, he was just so damn remarkable and was certainly not being edged out of wonderful friendship with Cornelius's partner.  

Rami finished his drink once again with a certain finality: he was distracted; he was placated; it was done - until he was sober, that is, and wrapped up planning his lecture when the tide would have room to wash back in with its evidence of other lives lived.  He certainly wasn't looking forward to that, the anxious thoughts and energy with little constructive outlet until the next adventure at a port of call.  Without the many planned activities aboard the ship, there would be little holding him back from jumping off and taking his chances in the ocean; at least the danger would be fun, very much unlike this quiet, subtle sense of hazard they faced together.

Even though the captain successfully bottled up all his tension to the point where most people would mistake that it wasn't even there, Rami wasn't most people.  He watched Cornelius finish his cocktail in appreciative silence but saw past the seemingly relaxed composure and knew it for what it was - restraint.  

...But of course, they both had their ways of releasing the pressure.

"Hey," Rami spoke up again, "you make a drink this time."

"No seriously, just one drink was more than enough.  As I said, I've got an early morning ahead of me tomorrow, and--"

"--I'm not talking about for you," he interrupted. "I mean for me!"

Despite his objections as a captain, he knew that if Rami wanted another drink then he was going to get another drink regardless of what anyone else said, so he didn't waste much time weighing whether or not he should oblige his request.  "Hmm, I only know vodka tonic..."

Instantly Rami shot it down.  "Boring."

"...Well, what if I made a new drink for you?"

"A brand-new, never-before-seen Captain Cruz cocktail for me?" he exclaimed, and Captain Cruz wasn't sure if he was poking fun at his expense or not. "...DEAL!" 

Cornelius didn't know the full terms or conditions, but a deal was a deal and he started to mull over his options in the liquor cabinet.  Of course, he wouldn't lose to Rami's practiced taste even if he had no idea how to go about doing so, and the pleasantly warm sensation of alcohol did nothing to hinder his competitive confidence.  "Let's see," he thought aloud, "we just had Sex on the Beach, so..."

"Sex on the Boat?"

Cornelius paused because while he was certain that Rami was joking, he was uncertain that it wasn't a real thing.  "Is that even in here?" he asked and handed him a bartender's recipe book.

"Hold on, let me check," Rami responded and began to leaf through the pages.

"Look for something with vodka if it's not," Cornelius instructed as he set out a few liqueurs as options before digging back into the cabinet. "I don't want you getting sicker than you're already going to be tomorrow just because you switched liquors."

It was a suggestion based on experience but of course, Rami ignored all that.  "Hey, there's one called Buttery Nipple..."

"Let me see the recipe," he commanded and grabbed the book for himself but then Rami batted it out of his hands to the floor, stepping on it for good effect.

"That's cheating."

"Well, what was in it?"

"...Nipples."

The subsequent eye-roll was almost audible.  "And, let me guess, butter?"

"You know that's a terrible idea."

"You're a terrible idea."

Rami laughed aloud, enjoying the sound of Cornelius's stifled snicker and the clinks the bottles made when he put most of them back into the liquor cabinet as if he had been struck with inspiration.  

"You've come up with something," he noted dryly.

"I have," he agreed with equal parts dryness.

While watching Cornelius pour, shake, and strain whatever cocktail he was making for him, Rami struggled to keep up and identify if this was actually based on a real drink or if he was just putting whatever the hell he thought of in there and using him as a guinea pig.  Either way, he was curious and shot the captain an eager grin as soon as he slid the finished concoction over.

"Voila, the Captain's Special."

"How original," Rami remarked and swirled the drink vaguely around after taking a sniff.  It seemed all right, and he didn't identify anything particularly strange while he watched him make it, but he also knew that it was amateur hour over in the captain's quarters that night, special or no special.  "No name like Bottom Deck or I'm Gonna Throw You Overboard Rami?"

"I'd need a salted cream for that last one so maybe next time," Cornelius responded wryly as he cracked a smile.  "Now are you going to drink up or what?"

Rami's eyes twinkled as he swung his arm away in an exaggerated gesture and said, "Now did I hear that right?  Our fearless leader, the ordinarily extraordinary Captain Cruz, is-"  His hand knocked into Cornelius's empty glass but did little else but send it sailing an inch away. "-encouraging me, the ruggedly handsome and dashing explorer, to drink MORE?  As in-"

"I can send you back to your cabin and pour this down the drain, you know."

"-MORE than this incredibly good-looking traverser of the lands and sea has already--"

Cornelius grabbed Rami's errant hand before it knocked into anything else and commanded, "Oh just drink already!"  He pushed the hand with the cocktail close to Rami's face before both of them laughed, a small spill being a minor casualty.

Finally, he drank that damn drink, draining it about halfway before pausing with a pensive expression.  If he minded that Cornelius's hand still laid atop his on the table then he didn't show it.

"Well?" Cornelius prompted as he gave a slight squeeze, clearly anticipating a review on his spontaneous creation.  

Rami took a few appreciative seconds before asking vaguely, "You seriously just made this up and haven't tried it yourself?"

"What does that mean?  Of course I did." He was impatient. "Do you like it or not?"

"Try it."

Cornelius shook his head.  "No, I'm done drinking for the night.  This one was all for you."

"All for me," he mused and ran his thumb alongside Cornelius's finger.  At this stage of things, neither of them minded the contact, but it was always a question of how much pressure Rami needed to apply for the restraints to loosen further.  "You know, once I finish this you'll have never known how it tasted - a fleeting moment of history, forever gone..."

"I'm fine with that," Cornelius answered, "as long as you tell me what you think."

There was a beat of silence in which Rami decidedly did not tell him what he thought.

"So it's good, bad...?"

He downed the rest of the drink and declared as he set the drink down on the table with finality, "Gone."

Cornelius's eyes narrowed in response and he attempted his best intimidating and interrogative stare.

While it worked on everyone else aboard the ship, Rami just brought his free palm up and shrugged in a manner specifically designed to be as grating as possible.

Whatever additional chip he added to break open the crack in Cornelius's walls this time had worked: in a sudden and almost violent manner, Cornelius grabbed the front of Rami's shirt with his free hand and crushed his lips against his, pressing his tongue to part through without preamble.

Rami went with it as a rudderless boat rolled with the waves, carrying itself further out on the sea's whim.  That is to say, he parted his mouth and let Cornelius's tongue slide in to gather as much as he desired.  Their fingers intertwined and Rami freed a soft moan, thankful he didn't have to wonder how much longer he had to prod anymore to transition to this eventual part of the night.

It was an intense but not particularly long kiss as the captain did part from those adventuring lips, although keeping in a breath's vicinity.  "...Not bad," he concluded, watching Rami gaze at his lips with some measure of satisfaction as he touched his jaw tenderly.  "Not bad if I say so myself."

Rami gave an impish grunt in disagreement and added, "You can do better."

"Then let me do that tonight."

"You mean let me do you?"

When they would later finish acting out the unspoken feelings between them and Rami would unsuccessfully attempt to sweet-talk his way into staying 'til dawn, it would be the last time Cornelius rolled his eyes that night.  But until then, Cornelius gave one more eye roll and answered with another passionate, unrestrained kiss.

...If only just to shut him up.

#love tangle #shall we date love tangle #cornelius cruz #rami zaza #fanfiction #mine #fanfic

[punkscowardschampions]

Bea & Ro

Bea: What time were you planning to go to mass on your birthday? Ro: [a time that is ridiculously early af] Ro: You're going to be there to present me with my rosary right? Bea: I thought it was just before the party, when is that starting? Ro: Traditionally, yes, but I don't want to hurry through it as if it's not important Ro: [a time for when the party is starting] Bea: Right Bea: it's just that it was going to be a struggle to get back for the party as is Bea: That's essentially adding an extra day to my stay Ro: but you're the closest thing to a godparent I have, spiritually Ro: I don't know who else could do it Bea: and I know that you really want to do this Bea: I'm just not sure if I can make this happen, the schedule doesn't have much wriggle room Ro: okay, I suppose you can lead the last doll ceremony at the party instead Ro: I was intending to have Ali give it to me, since she made the outfits and everything but I'm sure she'll understand Bea: I don't mind if Ali does it Bea: it isn't as if this is actually traditional to us Ro: I'm trying to create my own traditions, it means something to me in that sense Bea: I'll try to make the party Bea: Yes, I know Bea: but I can't have my life revolve around it for a full calendar week Ro: I can't help when in the calendar my birthday falls in relation to your university terms Bea: Of course not but this is a lot, Ro Ro: No, it isn't Ro: it's a party that you'll try to attend Bea: I don't know of any other party you have to attend church to go to Bea: unless it's a wedding Ro: I haven't thrown any other parties prior to this Bea: You know what I mean Bea: this doesn't need to be such an event, does it Ro: It's my birthday, it's allowed to be whatever I want it to be Bea: Right Bea: well I don't know if I can come, alright Ro: well, if you want me to tell you that's fine, I won't, because it isn't Bea: What do you want me to do? Bea: The workload is insane Ro: if you are unable to cope with it approximately a month after Christmas break, what would you like me to say or do? Ro: *before Bea: Don't talk like you have any idea about the workload, firstly, that's what you can do Bea: You haven't even done your leavers yet Ro: You only just got back, that's common knowledge Ro: being snowed under is a poor excuse Bea: They set the assignments at the start of term Bea: even if I have all term to do it, would you suggest I leave it to the last minute? Ro: I would suggest you learn more effective time management some time before you graduate Ro: since you asked Bea: Please Bea: You're in a strop but don't be a brat about it Ro: you're well aware of when I was born, it's nobody's fault but your own if you can't handle your own schedule to coincide with long established party plans Bea: I'm aware it's in the middle of term, Ro Bea: and I go to school in another country and am living on student loans Bea: I'm not flying back for every little thing Ro: it's one of the shortest possible plane rides and you're more than happy to take advantage of that when it suits you Ro: or Fraze Bea: That's my business Bea: and I don't come back as much as you're trying to put on Ro: and I don't ask you to come back ever, or for anything Bea: It's clear you're only concerned about yourself Ro: for one day a year, why is that so uncalled for? Bea: Because, all this is just ridiculous Bea: you aren't Latina Ro: look for the ridiculous in anything and you will find it Ro: or if you prefer, all great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning Bea: You do it with Ali, as per Bea: you don't need me for any of this Ro: that's just as well since you can't be relied upon to take part in any of this Bea: If it was important, I'd be there Ro: it is important to me Bea: I can't say you've inspired me to make any greater attempts than I already have Ro: of course not, your mind was already made up when this conversation began Ro: however inspiring I am or am not is irrelevant because of your unwillingness to prioritise me regardless Bea: You seem pretty convinced of a few things yourself Bea: It isn't exactly the easiest time for me, regardless of my time management Ro: it's my 15th birthday that approaches, not my 5th, I'm utterly convinced that waiting at the window for you is an empty pursuit Bea: You're being dramatic Bea: and if you'd like to compare 5th birthdays with me, feel free Ro: and yet I'm the one who's supposedly being dramatic Ro: one great sacrifice and you're content to never consider making another in my honour, however big or small Ro: okay then Bea: I didn't sacrifice anything for you Bea: They died, there's no good behind us Bea: I got help, we got out of there, end of Ro: maybe that's the end of the story as far as you're concerned Ro: it's the beginning of mine Bea: We aren't even talking about that Bea: yet another topic you know nothing about and I'm not willing to endure lectures on Ro: they died on the same day, it's impossible to talk about one without the other Ro: if I were being dramatic, that would be cause enough Bea: What does it matter? Bea: Can you remember it? No Ro: that in itself matters, having nothing to remember them by except you and your memories which you're as unwilling to share with me as you are to make any time to celebrate with me now Bea: I was 4, I don't have any memories either Bea: That's how it is, there is nothing to celebrate there Ro: Fine Ro: I'll leave you to your assignments then Bea: I will send your present Ro: Thank you Bea: Right Bea: if anyone asks, tell them what you like Ro: it's unlikely anyone will given how selfish I'm apparently being and how air tight your reasons for not showing up supposedly are Ro: besides, I have enough to do without indulging in any games of chinese whispers as to your whereabouts Bea: Then you best get on with it Ro: I have my own schedule under control Bea: I've not got the time to have this petty back and forth with you and if you're as busy as you say, that shouldn't be a problem Ro: finally, something you're right about Ro: it isn't a problem Ro: continuing this conversation with you is a waste of my energy Bea: Off you go then Ro: See you at Christmas, assuming you decide that's worth returning for Bea: Either way, you won't be waiting at the window Ro: precisely Ro: and you'll have my present sent if you don't appear yourself, little else mattering at times like these anyway Bea: You aren't upset I'm not coming, you're only upset your plans are compromised Bea: because if you remotely gave a shit about me being there, you would've approached this whole conversation differently Ro: experience has taught me what you value and what you don't Ro: I'm not about to make any kind of impassioned plea in order to be a hastily added footnote Ro: particularly if it follows that I'm to be blamed for your ensuing university hardships should you dare to attend Bea: You know me so well Bea: wait, no, we both agree that is laughable Bea: so spare telling me what I will or won't do or say, my sides are splitting as is Ro: perhaps I will when you respond in kind and stop telling me how I feel or why Bea: Experience isn't something you are solely blessed/cursed with Bea: I can only react to what I'm presented with Ro: you don't want to come, of course you're reacting in line with that, that's what I'm being presented with Bea: Of course I don't, but it's about obligation regardless Ro: you've long been free from any and all obligation towards me Bea: Don't be delusional Ro: you should make time for church if you're going to make yourself such a martyr to my existence Bea: Guess what, we're not Catholic either Ro: There is no we, my faith is my own Bea: Nah Ro: you don't speak for me on any subject, especially my personal beliefs Bea: It's bullshit, Ro Bea: no one chooses to be a Catholic Ro: I have Bea: Yeah, well you would love to be special Ro: I'm so unsurprised that you manage to find enough time to be confrontational Bea: If I were to actually call you out on all your bullshit, we'd be here 'til your 18th Ro: feel free to write the most urgent of your grievances in the card you'll send Bea: You don't deserve a gift that good Ro: that much we can agree on Ro: I don't deserve any of this from you Bea: For god's sake Ro: Stay there, as we said, nobody but me thinks it's unfair that you aren't coming Bea: I'm sure they do Ro: Well, I have not and will not ever care what your boyfriend thinks Bea: As I understand, it's mutual Bea: and he's more than just my boyfriend to you Ro: no, he isn't Bea: How do you think you get to pick and choose? Bea: you can't claim Ali and ignore everyone else, they exist too, like it or not Ro: In much the same way you and he both did, I would imagine Ro: if I were to claim him as my brother, being your boyfriend would be abhorrent and it's obvious what you would both rather by now Bea: Your choice to not integrate and be part of this family has nothing to do with me Ro: Likewise Bea: Fuck you Bea: you had every chance, this is the only one you've ever known Ro: by your own admission you had all the same chances, no sacrifices made for me and no memories of the former Ro: you chose him and he chose you, you're the one being delusional if you think there was room for me and him to still play happy families afterwards Bea: Now you want to believe me, convenient isn't it Ro: and you want to have your cake and eat it, it's an appropriately timed idea, at least Bea: This isn't about me, it's about you being ungrateful Ro: No, it's about you attempting to tell me how to behave as if you reside in an ivory tower instead of a glass house Bea: You're having your teenage rebellion phase, fine Ro: again no, I'd be more than willing to listen to you had you actually said anything worth listening to Bea: Sure Ro: Undeniably so Bea: No, bullshit, again, Ro Bea: you don't listen to anything anyone has to say because you think you're right about everything despite the obvious Ro: you can't garner a receptive audience because you're just talking and talking without pausing for breath or to listen yourself Bea: This might be a big conversation for you, but that's only because you never talk to anyone but yourself either Bea: I'm actually busy, with things far more important than your tantrum Ro: Go and devote yourself fully to those things then, I already told you to do so Bea: You think you tell me what to do? Bea: No Bea: I'm not so single-minded Ro: If I had any desire to waste my breath I'd do so during a piano lesson with one of my more challenging students, when I'm paid to Bea: Yes, that about sums you up Ro: thus allowing you to draw a line under me Ro: and all of this Bea: No Bea: that's your move Bea: if you're going to be as callous as to want it, at least have the follow-through Bea: I'm not making this one easy for you, lest I be accused of martyrdom again Ro: I wouldn't dream of trying to compete with you in the stakes of who is the most callous Bea: I miss a birthday, how much have you skipped out on, Ro? Bea: When are you ever fucking here? Ro: such a convenient scapegoat for you when you no longer wish to be held to your own account Bea: If you want to be a ghost, you don't get to defend yourself Bea: dead people don't get to prove or deny any claims made about them Ro: the dead are far superior conversationalists than you, in my experience Bea: Your imagination, it'd have to be Ro: boundless though it is, no Bea: You don't know any dead people, and that's the truth of it Ro: I've met lots of them Bea: No, you haven't Bea: and how many people turn up to your party is going to reflect that Ro: yes I have, and how many people turn up to my party reflects how many people I chose to invite Ro: for all the things you deign to lecture me on, having a select social circle is perhaps one of the most hypocritical Bea: If there was any element of choice, it'd be you and Ali Bea: it's obligation and the guestlist of your not family reflects that both ways Ro: this repetition is neither effective nor amusing Bea: It's the sad fucking truth and someone needs to smash it through your thick skull Ro: a chore you'll never be too busy for when you take such delight in it Bea: I hate talking to you Bea: do you seriously not understand how much you make my skin crawl Ro: and yet here you still are Ro: how ghoulish Bea: because I am your sister Bea: your actual sister, and it isn't optional Ro: hardly, we both opt out regularly as previously highlighted Bea: No, I don't Ro: you currently are Ro: and you have on many other occasions Bea: Not being able to stomach a whole performance from you trying to be someone else is not opting out Bea: I wouldn't still be here if that were an option Ro: you'd have to know who I was in order to have the slightest indication of whether or not I was attempting to be someone different Bea: I know who you are Bea: but don't insult me by pretending you have the slightest inclination Ro: you insult me with such a barefaced lie Ro: you don't know me at all Bea: You wish Ro: I'm not in the habit of wasting wishes Bea: How's that working out for you? Ro: Perfectly Bea: Then that's really sad Ro: You're a very convincing adult Bea: That's allegedly what you're preparing yourself for Ro: sober disenchanted maturity, so Wuthering Heights asserts among many other turns of phrase Ro: you're more suited to it Bea: You know, drunken, enchanting or youthfulness aren't words anyone would apply to you Bea: so I'd be more careful with what I asserted if I were you, you aren't likely to be thrilled with what you get back Ro: I am content without the constant appraisal of others right now, perhaps when I find my own way to university we can swap places though Ro: if nothing else, it'll grant you a rest Bea: Of course you are Bea: you haven't spent this entire conversation doing just that Bea: at least package your delusions as somewhat believable to anyone else or you just look wholly derranged Ro: this entire conversation is centred around the disruption of my plans and thus my self discipline is the only thing seeking to be placated as you yourself commented Bea: You've sought out every opportunity to assert your appraisals of me, unprompted and unforgiving Bea: I wasn't going to come out of genuine lack of ability, but the poison of spite and bitterness was barely held back between your pursed lips, no need to push hard for all that to spill forth Ro: however you decide to excuse your absence makes no difference to me Bea: It makes no difference because nothing does with you Bea: you'd rather I wasn't there because at least then you have something to lament over Ro: I'd rather you weren't because you've made no secret of the fact you don't want to be, as always Bea: because it's fantasy, none of it is real Bea: what is the point of us going through the motions of pretending to have this life-affirming bonding experience when it'll be nothing close Bea: how easily I could be swapped out for any other bit player confirms that, it isn't true, and this all means fuck all to you Ro: you could be so easily swapped out because necessity has dictated it on more prior occasions than either of us have the time or inclination to call to mind Ro: you kept yourself at a distance long before you left for Cambridge, lecturing me about my lack of integration or whatever you called it doesn't change that Bea: Because it was not me you needed to intergrate with, is the point Ro: romantically aligning yourself with Fraze and babysitting Rocky on occasion doesn't mean you can point out my perceived failings as if you're an expert, moreso Bea: This constant comparison is pointless and not what I'm talking about Bea: you were meant to be a part of this family Bea: YOU, not me Ro: and I am Ro: if only because they're obligated to care for and about me as you're so quick to point out at every single opportunity Bea: if you think that's the only reason, legitimately, for them, then you're proving my point about how out of touch you are Ro: you're the one who keeps propping up this conversation with that as the reasoning Ro: whether or not it has ever crossed my mind hasn't been brought up for discussion Bea: No, it's you failing to do your part, that obligation is a two-way street Bea: you're the one giving it negative connotations Ro: being in someone's debt rarely has positive ones Bea: That's what family is Ro: and contrary to what you believe, I fulfil my responsibilities to this one Bea: If you say so Ro: I do Bea: Then that's all that matters Ro: I'm well aware of what does and doesn't matter Bea: Okay Bea: not me you need to convince Ro: I'm also well aware of where to place my conviction so that it isn't misplaced Bea: Seems like it Ro: Goodbye Bea

[pokefanbri]

https://www.facebook.com/104057744428568/posts/156998459134496/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=e

Fucking told him its a huge red flag if someone doesn't get rid of their apps. Multiple apps. Smh 😠 "oh yea i don't use them anymore" proceeds to use fb dating app" for real come on bro!

Some comments of the post:

"If you have to be checking up on your Partner then you shouldn't be with that person.. Idk how people have time for all this .. love yourself and know your worth.."

"If you're in a serious committed exclusive relationship you should not be on tinder. That's how I met my fiance and as soon as we said we are gf and bf and exclusive we both deleted it. Honestly if I was her I would have broken up with him too"

"a person also has a right to trust their gut feeling and check things out if something's not feeling right. Knowledge is power"

I've already discussed this but this news clip further validates my point of the topic, nothing more. I could call him out on hs bs further with detail, but I won't....yet, out of respect even though he probably doesn't deserve it. Til he reaches me & apologizes for everything he's done, i can say whatever tf I want & i could make a whole damn list.

Its the events of this what happened that started our downfall to begin with cuz i didn't trust him & he didn't even try to gain it back just left it as is when I could've turned my back right then & there, no apology either. Didnt apologize much actually, not even when i last saw him. But from then we spiraled & he got bored of me. I wasn't giving him what he wanted in whatever way & he wanted to find more. Closed himself off from the beginning & that created his boredom 😒

Would've had a blast together like a normal fucking couple if he was less closed off, & wouldn't have felt the need to do shit behind my back.

I'll stop talking about it for now, I have the anger & urge to keep going but I wont...actually no Screw it im pissed 😡 but ill keep it light. Its just not fair, I did so much for him but I was disrespected in different aspects of the whole relationship. Fuck! I've talked about the positives alot cuz i do love him..but the negatives are such bs too.

I want a good ass sincere apology for all of it so I can forgive him & move on, ive already apologized myself even though I dont think I should have to 😒. Didnt even give me a straight answer for the breakup, it was always a different excuse when I know he just wanted to pursue other women without me around im not fucking stupid. His own toxicity was too much even for himself & I was in the line of fire, to where i was the toxic one? No fuck that its unacceptable, he always lied when it came to covering his own ass.

For all i know he's watching me squirm & taking pleasure in all the pain I'm going through over him cuz he likes the attention. But no I actually don't think so on that one he's still good & ill give him credit where its due. But I gave him all the attention he wanted/needed & still wanted more from someone else. Really dude fucking really!?

Man up & own up to your mistakes, speak to me where I can actually hear ur voice speaking back to me with sincerity. We'll apologize together. Yea ull be pissed about this, but after u get over it & calm down. Give in & call me, granted when ur ready, & open up for once in your damn reserved life. Itll help us both with more closure & may even take a weight off our shoulders if we just talk it out, no arguing...since we're done there's no point anyway..a friendly non judgment zone cuz idc, i won't think of u any less.

U confused me during & especially after the relationship cuz i didnt know who u really were, i know the good cuz that's what u allowed me to see, ive accepted the bad that I knew already & from what ive learned...i accepted u regardless.

I always forgave u & not cuz im passive, cuz forgiveness is what the Bible teaches.. ive forgiven u & myself the best i could especially with the last things ive showed u, (accept this part cuz im pissed rn & standing up for myself, ill delete eventually maybe if u ask cuz nobody wants to be seen any less of a person. but I can make it alot worse, calling me the mistake was the worst thing u ever said to me & pointing out your faults so u can be better throughout the relationship was my only toxicity to u) we actually never really fought except the 1 time, just argued a tiny bit rarely about little things.

Ive tried using every ounce of my courage to show u how much im sorry for any wrong ive done. but its up to u now to make things right. U know me, ive always said that u can talk to me about anything. I want to be able to trust again & move on whilst staying friends. What else do u have to lose, might even have a great heart to heart convo dude to dudet

Everything ive ever said up to this point lies all my Questions. But here's most of the list, we both were equally in control of the relationship. Maybe u didn't want me to? But doing everything I had to for myself & the household, what u & ur parents wanted of me & just me being me cuz i had to, u had your own part to play & did provide...but did u actually not want me to cater to u if it were a sign u were lazy or something? Like did u not feel worthy of me? What is it u think is my "addicting personality" that isn't fixable on the surface? What is it really that u didnt like about me? This is why i don't have closure, u left me like this, confused as well as wanting more since u held back so much. Was that on purpose to give me even more false hope & want me to pine over u? Did u ever or do u still, love me at all? What did u want from me & out of the relationship, what was the purpose of it from ur perspective & why do u think i couldn't give that to u? What did i lack that u felt compelled to not tell me so I could improve & vise versa so we both could improve? Why wouldn't u allow me to help u become a better man when (I shouldnt have to btw), its exactly what u wanted but maybe didnt see it? Do u realize your own faults even as u do them? Lol. Like i genuinely want to know as much as the good ive seen, cuz to be better the more open of a person u are the more u understand yourself too.

Unless claiming u want to be a better man is part of ur alluring charm in love bombing process to land a caring girl on purpose lol...god I hope not, that would just mean u rinse & repeat like a for real narcissist 🤔 seriously tho look into that im not even kidding, im asking cuz i care. Im pissed now but 1 thing is that im trying to not put ur behavior against u cuz maybe u can't help it, its just the way u are, all ive seen & experienced points to maybe 50% of u lol. Ive always suspected narcissism, a real psych problem that might be worth looking into. But yea 1 of the reasons especially why im so forgiving & trying not to put it against u, why i still care despite u being a dick lol. I chose to look past it, all the time & up to now cuz I understand what its like to have psychological ailments. The worst part about it is most dont realize it, so i encourage u to do some research & self reflection & admitting it to urself are the 1st steps. Okay? There's different kinds & levels to being 1 too, i found that fascinating. bryan is definitely a different type, ur more lighter than that...definitely not the worst which is the physical harm type. Trust me its worth finding out more about yourself, just dont use it to ur advantage in a bad way but i trust u to do right & grow. Not sure a discarded supply (ie me) has ever tried telling a narcy what they might be for the benefit of their own self awareness 🤔,idk if its ever been done, but theres a 1st for everything? U can find alot on it in quora digest alone but Google is also ur friend.

You always were worth every effort of mine to help u in any way to be happy, & i was most happy when u were. U mean alot to me still, its the effect u had on me, I was under ur spell lol its hard to rid myself of it still, not sure when it'll pass. I chose to see it as a gift rather than a curse, that ur effect on me is still so strong when I shouldn't give a damn. If u really are a narcy, then I understand & don't put alot against u cuz its just the way u are & i need to accept it, but if it somehow helps u to help yourself cuz of it, then whats the harm? But, even in doing this or having my socials public for u...maybe just feeds into what u want...i still dont care, I want u to see how bad or good im doing without u in my life, so u know im okay at least. U promised friendship, least I can do is allow u to keep tabs on me too we spoke of, on my end of things.

The 18th of June was the last time i saw u. It'll soon be a month ago in about a week & a 1/2 & your birthday would mark 2 months. Cant believe we couldn't even last through to that 😔

Mark my words playa I will be contacting u on that day lol. Can't ghost your homie forever sweetie

[anthrat]

The Akatsuki members as high-school students

Has this been done before? Probably! Do I care? No, because these are my terrible headcanons and nobody can take them from me.

A/N: This has been in my drafts for a long time, probably since early February. I’ve been lacking motivation to do anything at all for months and lo and behold, I find this basically finished piece bar one character. I really, really want to start writing again but I’m struggling to think of ideas, so if you have any requests for future headcanons/one shots/etc feel free to slide me a message or something :)

He's definitely the generic super intelligent kid who gets straight A's in pretty much every subject. All of his notes are really well organised, he keeps bullet journals and everything is colour coded - mans notes are literal art. His handwriting is definitely beautiful, we're talking professional calligrapher here.

All of his equipment is immaculate, he cries if one of his books gets a crease or something on it somehow. If you accidentally nudge him or ruin his notes he will silently hold a grudge against you forever - he probably won't act on his grudge though, he just wants to blend in and he dislikes conflict in general.

Despite being fully aware of his intelligence he hardly ever speaks up in classes. He only really speaks when spoken to and so is renown as the token quiet kid. I also envision him as being super pretentious, although he doesn't show it he definitely thinks he's better than everyone else.

His favourite subject would be English because he enjoys analysing anything and everything. If you're friends with him he will make comments on how random pieces of media etc. are a representation of -insert important world issue or theory.- He'd also like art despite it being the only subject he's not very good at. All his art is abstract, he will draw a pink square and claim it represents a patriarchal society.

Doesn't have many friends because he isn't very talkative, spends most of his time at school alone doing schoolwork. Sees school purely as an educational setting and so doesn't see the point in making an attempt to be social.

All of his school equipment looks like it's been mauled by 300 dogs because its all second/third/fourth+ hand. Man would never pay full price for a textbook. He definitely steals all the faculty equipment too. You could fill an entire room with the amount of stationary this man has but he will NEVER lend it to anyone else. If he does lend you something it's because its either A) broken B) barely functional (so like pens which can write 2 letters before running out) or C) you're giving him something better in return/paying for it (even then he'll probably take whatever he lent you back without you realising)

He also definitely runs mini-shops in school where he'll sell stolen equipment and things like sweets/chewing gum/trendy items (he made bank when fidget spinners were a thing) for like triple what they're actually worth.

His favourite subject is definitely history (He's a crusty dusty old man so of course) but he will never admit this. He takes business and economics but hates them, he's already done all of his own research into the subjects and is only doing them to get the qualification. Definitely complains about how he already knows it all already and it's a waste of time for him to learn it again. His only conversation topic is him talking about how he's going to set up his own business as soon as he leaves school.

Is very intelligent but only gets average grades in most subjects because he refuses to try if he dislikes the subject or sees it as a waste of time.

Watched DeathNote once and now thinks he's an actual real life version of Light Yagame. Carries around his own DeathNote and threatens to write people's name in it.

Convinced that he's been bestowed with supernatural powers, whenever he speaks he does lots of flashy hand gestures, - think generic cool-dude protagonist poses - these change depending on what piece of media he's currently obsessed with. His personality also changes alongside the poses.

Basically what I'm trying to say is he's the over-saturated 'weird anime kid' with a touch of superiority complex. Although, he's super confident and has absolutely 0 shame in this fact.

Bless his little heart, he loves writing but is the definition of 'uses complicated words without knowing what they mean'. He's still decently smart though. His grades would probably be pretty average because he struggles to apply himself properly. His favourite subject would definitely be something like sociology where he can freely express his profound ideas, even if some of them are completely god awful. He'd also enjoy any subject which gives him creative freedom such as art or English.

Cannot see this lad as anything but a jock. He loves sports, lives and breathes them. He's probably a member of practically every single sports team and is surviving on the basis he has a sports scholarship of some kind.

Despite him being a jock he'd be the most approachable out of all the Akatsuki members. He's the kind of guy who no matter who you are he'd always be happy to crack jokes and talk with you. He definitely brings in way too much food, he's that dude who brings a whole mini banquet to school every day for no discernible reason. He's always happy to share though, he's definitely the kind of guy who if he saw someone sat by themselves at lunch he'd sit with them and offer them food.

His grades would be a little on the lower side because most of his free time is taken up with all his sports, however, he'd still work hard at his academics regardless. If anything this man is probably the most dedicated, he would hate the fact that he's falling behind all his classmates but at the same time would rather die than give up any of his extracurricular activities.

He'd be fairly popular because of his naturally easygoing and humorous nature, but people would rarely ever invite him to events as they'd just assume he was busy.

Konan is an absolute babe, the kindest and most caring person in the whole school. Forgotten your lunch? She'll buy you some or give you her own. Didn't do your homework? Bitch will give you hers to copy, if it's an essay or something she'll sit with you and help you write it. Looking a little upset? Konan's right there to try and cheer you up even if you aren't friends.

Despite how wonderful and 100/10 a person she is she probably won't have many close friends. She'll get used a lot by others who take advantage of her good nature. She's smart enough to know what they're doing but she doesn't care, she's happy to be of help to anyone even if they don't appreciate it.

She's a bit of a teachers pet though, she's on super good terms with every teacher in the school even if she doesn't take the subjects they teach. Most of her breaks/lunches would be taken up by her helping with display boards or whatever.

Her favourite subject would be geography, she'd really enjoy learning about different cultures and societies. I can see her just really enjoying learning about how rivers are formed and stuff like that as well. Her least favourite would be something like math which is only fact based, she enjoys being able to look at things from different perspectives.

Also bitch would bake all the time, literally every lesson she'd whip out a box of cakes/cookies/anything else she'd baked the night before to share with the whole class.

Carries knives around with him because he thinks they make him look cool. He can and will whip one out at any given opportunity so he can flex a knife trick on you. His knife tricks suck though, he always drops them or cuts himself, if you try and walk away he'll beg you to stay claiming that fortieth time's the charm or something.

He never shows up to lessons, he doesn't even know what one is. If you ever ask him what subjects he takes he'll look at you blankly and ask what you mean. If he ever is in a lesson it's because he was dragged there by a member of staff. Honestly, the few lessons he's actually present for are so chaotic teachers find themselves praying he doesn't show up. Being as he never willingly shows up he'll never know what subject it is, and he'll ask insanely bizarre questions un-ironically because he gives no fucks and has no idea what is happening. For example, you'll be learning about arteries in biology and he'll ask something like "What ingredients do we need?" because he'll have confused arteries with artichoke and think he's in a home economics lesson.

Despite being the weird knife kid he's pretty popular, he's so completely brain dead and unaware of his surroundings that its impossible not to get along with him. He doesn't have the critical thought to bully anyone and so even if he tries to be horrible it always comes off as though he's just trying to be funny.

Oh dear oh lord what can I say about Zetsu? Zetsu is an absolute shit show of a student. Black Zetsu I can see as being very academic focussed, with their favourite subjects being religion, politics and some form of economics. I imagine they’d be very active within school politics/religious scenes, probably the head of some sort of group for both.

Black Zetsu would also be interested in applying for positions such as Head of Year, Class Representative and anything similar. They’re a big control freak and as a result have basically 0 friends. People would find them overbearing and awful to be around. They’re the incredibly opinionated kid who dismisses anything which they don’t personally agree with.

White Zetsu on the over hand, hoo boy. Class clown obviously. The living bane of Black Zetsu. If Black Zetsu wants class representative then you know people will vote for white Zetsu instead because he’s infinitely more popular. He’s incredibly weird but in such an innocent and goofy way they’d have a large group of friends. They wouldn’t be popular per say, but they’d be friends with practically everyone.

Their favourite subject would probably be biology because sex jokes, but I also think they’d enjoy English because uhh… Sex jokes. I just can’t see White Zetsu taking school even slightly seriously.

He basically lives in the art department. If you walk near him he will tag along and start talking to you about art, it doesn’t matter who you are you will be forced to listen to his speech.

Incredibly confident and has no issue starting a conversation with anyone. He's definitely the type of person who every time you see him he'd be with a completely different group of people, whether they want him there or not.

Despite his weird constant art rants he'd be the life and soul of the party. He's always fun to be around purely because of how much energy he has. He'd be the kid who makes everyone laugh completely on accident, although people would probably be laughing more at him than with him.

He'd probably get invited to lots of places by other kids just so he could be the butt of every joke. He wouldn't mind though, he'd brush it off and probably enjoy the attention he gets from it.

Most of his friends would end up being people who know nothing about art though, all the students who participated in any artistic subjects would stay far away in fear of him starting another argument about art.

If the art class ever does clay his has to be put in the kiln separately because it always blows up. He also has a habit of 'accidentally' damaging other people's art if he dislikes it. Eventually he would mellow out and start appreciating other forms.

Nobody knows who he is, people will have sat next to him for years and won't even know his name. The amount of times his name is called in the register and people will pipe up with "who's that?" or "didn't he move to another school?" is genuinely concerning. He doesn't care though, he'd rather go through school completely unnoticed.

Excels at all subjects (besides sports, he's never showed up to a PE lesson because of 'health reasons') despite putting very little effort into academics. His favourite subjects would be biology and math. He'd absolutely hate art as a subject, preferring to do art in his free time rather than make it into a chore at school. He'd have been put in Deidara's class at least once and it would have completely ruined all enjoyment of art as a subject for him. He'd also hate any subjects which prompt discussion such as English or sociology, he doesn't have any opinions on them and he doesn't care to listen to anyone else's.

Honestly, dude is the definition of a background character at school. He just simply does not exist, and I have mad respect for him. On the off chance anyone even tried to speak to him he'd probably completely ignore them, the only communication he has at school is through emails with teachers. He has 0 interest in making friends when they have nothing in common with him.

Another character sort of hard to pinpoint. He’d probably be somewhat similar to White Zetsu, but not quite as popular. He’d be a right teachers pet, with few friends his own age. He’d probably spend spend all his breaks and lunches with teachers in their classrooms, offering to help them with display boards etc.

Despite being a teachers pet he wouldn’t be academic whatsoever. He’d always try his best but bless him, he’s terrible at every subject and ends up constantly making a fool of himself. He’s definitely the sort to raise his hand to make a really great point, but his really great point is basically repeating the lesson objective. When studying of mice of men he definitely asked “what’s the name of Curly’s wife’s husband?”

His favourite subject, regardless of his ineptitude would be drama. He’d always be the most melodramatic and over the top in every character he played, not really caring what other people thought of him. In fact, that’s probably his best feature. Despite his lack of popularity he’d always unapologetically be himself, his goofy and over the top self.

SPOILERS AHEAD:

If we’re thinking more about Obito, I’d like to imagine for the sake of this headcanon Tobi is what he’s like during lower school years and then suddenly one summer he comes back and he’s completely matured into this foreign character unrecognisable to nobody.

He’d become incredibly serious, forgoing the role of energetic teachers pet to a much more muted one. He’d still be just as terrible at all his lessons, and still spend most of his time around teachers rather than others his age but he’d no longer have that fun spark. He’d probably start caring greatly about what people thought of him so his latter years would be trying to stay under the radar completely.

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