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canon-transgender-virgil · 10 months

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ALRIGHT I HAVE SOME TIME SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS (also shut up i only noticed the typo when i was taking this screenshot-)

Okay, so I noticed a common theme in all the videos that orange (or Orange) is in: right after you see the color orange, you can see some form of shame or embarrassment in one of the characters.

Let me explain.

Let's take the flash card scene from Learning New Things About Ourselves.

As many people know, right when you see Logan crumple up the flashcard in his hand (like the upwards POV shot), you can see orange light coming from up the stairs. Many people (as I've pointed out, like, three times now) believe this to be the first time we see Orange show up.

Now, logically, many people take seeing the color orange show up when someone is visibly angry to mean that Orange is the representation of anger, but I think I disagree.

Look at Logan's face immediately after the flashcard hits Roman.

That's not anger. That face says a lot of things, but it doesn't say rage. It says, most notably, "I wish I hadn't done that".

AND! I can't believe I forgot about this but Logan literally says "I do regret throwing that paper at puppet Roman" in the Five Years Later episode! He says the words "I regret throwing the paper"!!

I'm going to get back to the Five Years Later video later but keep that in your mind.

I wouldn't put much thought into this if it was just a one off thing, but it's not - Logan's not even the only who exhibits this sort of behavior!

In Putting Others First, what is the first live action scene we see (that isn't the recap of course)?

That's orange. That is Thomas bathed in orange.

And again, Thomas may be angry here but this anger is mainly directed at himself for letting himself go to the wedding and not the callback!

Patton I feel is in the same boat, where he regrets or else is embarrassed by not being able to answer "Logan's" questions (for context here, Lilypadton's eyes are orange).

And then there's Working Through Intrusive Thoughts.

Logan was mad of course, but I think, once again, this is more so the regret of not putting his foot down earlier and making Thomas listen to him (hence the lashing out not thirty seconds before Thomas decides to abandon their plan).

Alright, on to a more solid bit of proof: the Five Years Later video.

There is a whole segment in this episode about C!Thomas and the other characters talking about their regrets.

Aside from the aforementioned Logan's regret of throwing the paper at Roman, there were some other notable reactions to this question:

Roman's regret of making Thomas go to the wedding in the first place (cementing my earlier point that that wasn't fully anger on Thomas's face but rather regret about the situation entirely) is a major one, but then there's Virgil's entire CVS receipt of a list (ranging from "boiled carrots" to "achieving consciousness" - mans is full of regret), to Roman's mirrored regret from Logan's about wishing he'd thrown something at Logan before Logan got the chance to throw the flashcard at him, to Janus's regret of "lack of attention to detail" (which, while unrelated to this discussion, I thought was an interesting point to make before the release of the season finale - hopefully we get to see more disguised Janus content in the finale? 👀👀 )

It's also interesting to note that in the Five Years Later video Remus is the only one who doesn't have any regrets about, you know, anything. That makes sense obviously in the context of who Remus is as a character but it also tracks that the one of the only characters who doesn't seem threatened or scared of the Orange Side has no regrets.

This is all I have for now, but if anyone would like to add on to this please do.

#sanders sides #thomas sanders #ts logan #ts roman #ts patton #ts virgil #ts janus #ts remus #sanders sides theory #sanders sides theories #orange side theories #orange side theory #orange side #ts orange side #god it took me so long to get back to this draft i have a whole ass different name

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will-die-for-janus · 4 months

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…so we all agree that Remus and Janus wanted Logan to get angry cuz he’s definitely going to become the orange side…we all agree on that?

#nillatalks #sanders sides #thomas sanders #thatsthat24 #ts sanders sides #new sanders sides #sanders sides theories #logan sanders #ts logan #deceit sanders #ts janus #janus sanders #remus sanders #ts remus

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justyourtypicaltuesday · 4 days

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An addition to my Logan speculation

I swear I have other theories, but I was thinking and noticed something else from my favourite episode (WTIT) that ties in with my last post.

In the end card, Logan says:

"I suppose this isn't the worst distraction Thomas could have."

That quote's been rattling around my head for a while, and I think I've figured out why. Using the series' own logic (pun sort-of-intended?), distractions have their uses: when Thomas can't reasonably do anything in the moment to solve the problem, and when Thomas is overwhelmed with intrusive thoughts and needs a break to reset.

However, by the end of the episode, Remus leaves. This means that Thomas logically should tell Nico he's busy, schedule to hang out another time, and finish cleaning his apartment. But he doesn't do this. So why is Logan accepting an illogical conclusion?

I think it comes back to self-doubt. We've seen before that a side can lose confidence in their opinions over what Thomas should do. In fact, we've now seen every other core side do this. Roman in Selfishness V Selflessness, Patton in DWIT and SvS Redux, and Virgil earliest of all in AA.

So, it's Logan's turn. Going forward, we might see Logan react in a similar way to the others when they've experienced this before. Being more hesitant to share their opinion, relying more on supporting points by others and doubting if what they believe really is true.

I find it hard to believe that Logan's objective has changed so quickly. He's been solidly established as putting Thomas' health first, more-so the way of supporting what he needs over what he wants. This contrasts with the other sides, most of all Patton and Roman, who mostly act on Thomas' desires.

That means that Logan is either in the process of re-evaluating his position on the matter, or, more likely, is suppressing his thoughts and, in a way, lying to the others.

This is where my theory comes in. I've already explained that I believe a Janus v Logan conflict is coming, and Logan lying is the perfect setup for that. What is even more interesting is that it's becoming more and more likely that this conflict is going to come from a Janus-sympathetic standpoint.

In conclusion, Logan's doubting himself and learning to hide his opinions and this is most likely going to be used as ammunition for Janus to have solid ground to stand on in the finale. I am a strong believer that Janus has a larger plan for the sides, with honest intentions to improve Thomas' life in a way the core sides will protest against, but that's a conversation for another day.

#ts sanders sides #logan sanders #sanders sides theory #sanders sides #ts janus #ts logan #janus sanders #deceit sanders #ts deceit #tss deceit #tss logan #sasi #ts sides #tss #tss janus #tss theories #sanders sides theories

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panicattheeverywhere13 · 2 years

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The face Patton makes here when Logan says “You’re siding with Patton on this?” Makes me think that theres still some sorta rift since Virgil’s dark side reveal…

#sanders sides #thomas sanders #virgil sanders #logan sanders #patton sanders #the dark sides #new sanders sides theory #sanders sides theory #sanders sides theories #deceit sanders #remus sanders #ts spoilers

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glacierruler · 9 months

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Okay, does anyone want to hear some Sander Sides theories I have?

If you do, press the read more button, if not keep scrolling on your feed!

So I think Patton split up the mindscape, but not with malicious intent.

I think, depending on how C!Thomas was raised, or even the adults in his life that weren't his parents, Patton thought that he had to be perfect and make the mindscape perfect in order to please everyone that he could. He did not mean to hurt the dark sides, I want to make this very clear, that I don't think that was his intent. But because of how people reacted to Thomas lying, to Thomas having anxiety, to Thomas's creativity not always being 'acceptable'(in their eyes), Patton started to see it that way too. But I don't think he ever wanted to hurt the others, just hide them from view so Thomas would be accepted by everyone else. And that warped his view on a lot of things, that he's slowly trying to relearn and change his views on. But because it had been established when Thomas was young that certain traits were 'bad' and 'evil' Roman, the princely side, ended up taking Patton's views too, which is why he has trouble with so many of them. When a trait is perceived as a villain, or bad, by Patton, Roman tends to trust that view, because of how Patton took over the mindscape when Thomas was just a kid. And now he needs to learn that, Patton's views are warped and he needs to come to his own conclusion about the different traits.

I say this because, Roman was the last to accept Virgil, and that had been because the others had accepted him, he based most of his thoughts on Janus off of Patton's(and Virgil's) reactions to the side.

I think the only dark side that he has his 'own'(I have more theories for this, based on what was prev said, but too tired to get into it rn) views on in a sense, is Remus. And most of those views are based off the fear that Remus could replace him at any moment, after all, Remus is creativity without boundaries.

#glacier rambles #sanders sides #theories #sanders sides theories

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transexualpirate · 15 days

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been thinking a lot about virgil's name not matching either the light sides of the dark sides. i think he had a different name with the dark sides but he changed it when he ducked out (quack) and picked a new one (virgil) when he started feeling more accepted, one that doesn't end in -us or in -an/on so that it's more accurate for who he really is and what it represents.

having said that,,,,,,,

what was his name originally? did the dark sides knew he changed it? do they still call him virgil regardless out of respect for him? do they do it in a mocking way? how did they react to finding out virgil had changed his name? and what was his name before that?

anyways i think it could have been something like verginius or vergilius. i think that would be funny actually

#mine #not to be taken seriously #sanders sides #virgil #virgil sanders #anxiety #thomas sanders #dealing with anxiety sanders sides #anxiety sanders sides #theories #sanders sides theories #sanders sides theory #theory #lol #if you can even call it that

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the-girl-with-the-glass-heart · 2 years

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Sanders sides theory: Logan's eyes turning orange when he got angry was a misdirection and orange is actually guilt/shame/embarrasment

Allow me to explain:

Thomas posted a picture on his insta story from a ted talk and said he was "doing research" and fanders found out what it was about.

The ted talk was about how vulnerability and weakness are not the same, we are taught that being open about how you feel is something to be embarrassed about and that guilt is natural but shame is not.

What is the one consistent emotion thomas has felt talking to nico other than love or joy? What feeling do you think Roman gets whenever patton points out his poor thinking? Why didnt thomas just talk to lee and mary lee about the wedding? What's the main symptom of constant low self esteem (something Logan said thomas struggles with all the time)? Why do the sides struggle to admit their flaws and talk about their feelings? How does thomas feel when he asks himself if he's truly a good person? Embarrassed, Humiliated, guilty, ashamed.

Now how do you feel when you are ashamed or guilty? Do you feel like the whole world is watching you, almost like a giant pair of glowing eyes are watching your back? Hell, even in the great gatsby the eyes on a billboard are meant to represent the eyes of god watching down on everyone.

Thomas himself has said hes a religious man and its clear that shame he felt for remus's thoughts permanently seperated the parts of his imagination.

But how could this possibly tie into logan screaming at remus? If the orange side isn't wrath why did he even show up when Logan got angry? Well hear me out, it wasn't the anger that made him show up.

It was logan's shame at the anger that did.

Logan has consistently shown he prides himself on being calm ans collected compared to everyone else, he is logic, he is reasonable, and he is meant to be taken seriously.

So if you were Logan and you found yourself being so upset that you have an out of control out burst from something as petty as not being given any attention, as if you were some crying child on an airplane who needed to be coddled. ESPECIALLY from remus, the side who literally thrives from attention and can only be beaten by being ignored and absolutely no one would ever take seriously, how would you feel? I reckon you'd feel pretty ashamed of yourself.

Heck, what is the common ground between intrusive thoughts, anxiety and self preservation? shame.

Virgil is afraid of the humiliation you could experience from any number of horrifying social faux pas you could do and remus's intrusive thoughts are a huge cause of thomas's guilt.

Now this is all great but if Orange really is shame then what greater function could he serve to thomas? All the sides have good in them, even remus, logan even says that at one point.

I believe orange would be there to show that Thomas's action have consequences, if there was no guilt or shame imagine how well Patton's morality would work.

Would thomas even want to apologize anymore? Would he even care to stop somebody like remus? You can teach some one as many morals as you want but if you don't have a reason to have them then they won't work.

Heck, what was the episode we got the secret hello message? The episode all about feeling bad when you don't put others first!

I imagine the season finale will finally confront thomas's guilt and low self image and all the sides will finally come clean about how awful they truly feel causing orange to show up, then when orange shows up we can properly explore two very important things.

1. When properly and fairly holding yourself accountable ends and hating yourself begins.

2. What really happened when remus and roman became distinct identities (i'm not saying king creativity is cannon, i'm just saying it would be an exploration of what ever happened when remus was sent away.).

Hell, if the spit was a real thing that really happened and orange is guilt than its fairly reasonable to assume HE caused the split, not patton or Logan like most people think.

Remember the old hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil theory?! Well you know what pose people usually strike when they're embarrassed or humiliated, they cover their eyes in shame and wince at the thought of seeing their own cringey bullshit.

It's literally perfect.

I could always be wrong though of course, but i do think this is a relatively sound theory with some evidence on it.

As much as i love the idea of wrath/greed orange, guilt orange would be such an interesting character, but more importantly, imagine the fucking angsty uwu soft boiness we will get.

But thats just a theory, a sanders sides theory! Annd cut.

#orange side #orange side theory #the orange side #thomas sanders #tss #tss theory #tss theories #thomas sanders theories #thomas sanders theory #orange side theories #sanders sides #sanders sides theories #sanders sides theory #orange sanders #orange

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mystic-voyager · 2 months

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New Orange Side Name Theory!!

KAIROS is "a passing instant when an opening appears which must be driven through with force if success is to be achieved." Kairos, then, means that one must find the best situation, taking timing into consideration, to act.

Patton — Pathos: Paternal and Emotions

Logan — Logos: Reason and Logic.

Based off the Greek Philosopher, Aristotle.

Roman — Eros: Romantic, Passionate, Inspiring, Courage, Valor, Great Deeds, Vanquisher. Plato expresses it, eros can help the soul to "remember" beauty in its pure form.

Remus — Jemos (Originally yémHos) : Twin, Double

Janus — (no name): duality, beginnings and ends, entrances and exits, change, time, transition, gateways, doorways, and archways. Depicted with 2 faces: past and future.

TURNUS (the -US ending fitting with Remus and Janus) who is connected to Virgil the poet. The connection I’m drawing here is rejection and anger. Turnus is undone by his unrelenting rage and pride in the end. He has all the elements of a hero.

Turnus’ Character Analysis

#sanders sides #sander sides orange side #orange side theory #sanders sides theories #sanders sides theory #greek mythology #greek gods

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let-roman-bite-someone · 3 months

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ah, you know what my first thought was when i got to this scene?

when logan started off as the side who tried to approach problems as fairly and open-mindedly as possible, and encouraged thomas to not jump to conclusions or assume ill intent.

but he gets ignored, underestimated and sidelined so often that he himself started giving in to the cognitive distortions.

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runningonadhd · 2 months

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Never forget he said this

I can’t wait for the corruption arc so we can just see Logan roast everyone

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dillydallydove · 1 year

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You cant tell me this wasn’t Janus’s way of learning how the real Roman would respond to being accused of not being Roman.

If Janus is planning on impersonating Roman, then knowing how Roman would genuinely react to this would help Janus act his way out of any accusations.

#roman sanders #janus sanders #tss theory #sanders sides

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canon-transgender-virgil · 2 years

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Patton has a brother and it's the Orange Side: A Theory

Hey, yall remember that one Sanders Sides fic I released that was like "ha ha what if Patton is related to the Orange Side?"

I think I can actually prove it.

(This is fairly long so the theory is under the cut):

First and foremost (this is what most of the theory hangs on)

THE FAMILY TREE

If you're an avid watcher of the show, you'll remember that in Why Do We Get Out of Bed in the Morning, Roman shows us a "family tree". This includes, most notably, Roman himself and Patton (which, while I'm aware that he's probably only on the tree at all because they wanted to continue the gag of "Patton is Thomas's dad", I find incredibly interesting considering that Patton isn't in the video at all - his portrait is there to show something).

For reference, here is this family tree:

As many an early theorist noticed when this video came out, Roman has a line extending off to the right of his portrait - if you weren't aware, this means that the people connected to the line are siblings.

This was later proven canon as, five videos later, who should reveal themselves but Remus (Roman's twin brother).

But notice anything interesting?

That's right: Patton has a line going off to his left, meaning he too has a sibling.

"But Calvin!" I hear you say, "What if his brother is just Janus, what if-"

Hush and let me explain.

Thomas and the team, as we’re all well aware, are generally very lenient when it comes to shipping the Sides - Thomas has stated that he views it as self-love so generally he doesn’t mind it.

However, he has stated that RemRom (romantic Roman and Remus [blarg]) makes him extremely uncomfortable because they are canonically twins.

And, in the Roleslaying With Roman livestream a few months ago, Alex and Brei stated that they wouldn’t allow people to ship Youngblood and Roman together if they knew that they were planning on them being revealed to be siblings. I imagine Thomas is in the same boat when it comes to his own characters.

Meaning that this unknown brother of Patton’s has not been introduced into the series just yet (that is to say, it’s highly highly unlikely that his brother is, say, Janus).

So, with all the other sides eliminated, who does this leave but the Orange Side?

And no, I have more proof!

As many people have theorized, Orange is likely representative of negative emotions (primarily anger, given the nature of the scenes that the color orange primarily dominated - the opening live action scene for Putting Others First, the top of the stairs in Learning New Things About Ourselves, and Logan's eyes in Working Through Intrusive Thoughts).

I think it's important to note here that just about every character in this show has expressed some form of visible anger and/or frustration before, and I'd list the most obvious examples but they are all extremely obvious (except maybe Remus, who we've only really seen get frustrated over Thomas not falling for his traps, but I digress).

There is only one main character we have never actually seen get mad or angry or any other intense wrath-filled emotion at anyone: Patton.

Which on its own is odd because, again, every other character, including C!Thomas, we have seen get mad before.

But it's even more odd when you take into consideration just how abnormal it is that the metaphysical embodiment of emotions has never been shown to be angry? Like, why? Why haven't we seen Patton... angry? Especially considering that anger is an emotion.

Not to mention that Patton tends to be one of, if not the first person in the show to actually start accepting the "Dark Sides" (first with Virgil, then with Janus). He's sympathetic towards them (or, towards Virgil at least) even before he was given a reason to.

Something else I thought was interesting (but not necessarily hard evidence towards the theory) is that Patton is the only "Light Side" to canonically have an animal trait, like the "Dark Sides" do.

Also, if one of my other Orange Side theories is right and Orange's real name is Judas, it would kind of make sense that Patton is related to him. I mean, Patton is definitely full of that ol' Catholic Guilt TM, so it would sort of track to have his brother be named after the dude who sold out Jesus (and also kind of fitting for Patton himself, now that I think about it).

So there you have it: my theory as to why Patton and the Orange Side seem so closely linked together is that they're simply siblings.

#it's incredibly likely that I've already shared this theory but honestly I need to share it again lskdjfssdf #sanders sides #thomas sanders #ts remus #ts logan #ts roman #ts virgil #ts patton #ts janus #ts orange side #orange side #orange side theory #orange sanders #sanders sides theory #i probably have more evidence to support this but it's literally midnight rn and im so tired so it'll have to wait #sanders sides theories #orange side theories #patton sanders theory #patton sanders theories

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i-am-bitterly-jittery · 2 months

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I would like to suggest aromantic Patton

He doesn’t know what Thomas meant when he said “I just felt something for someone else that I had never felt before” in Moving On pt 2, and during the Five Years Later video, he didn’t seem very enthusiastic about Nico

I propose that while Patton deals with a lot of the feelings, he doesn’t necessarily enjoy or understand them

#sanders sides #ts sanders sides #patton sanders #thomas sanders #aromantic #aromantic Patton sanders #tss theory #tss headcanon

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clydesavage-thefox147 · 3 months

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So, I was rewatching Perfect Gift again for like the 100th time and I just make a realization.

It's about the newspaper that Logan was given. He was so quick to assume it was just a cheap newspaper and nothing else to it. That's pretty depressing when you think that he's not seeing things in a deeper perspective anymore. It's as if he doesn't see a point to do so anymore.

It was sorta like how in the 5 year Anniversary vid, when Thomas asked "What do you think is next for us?" And Logan gave up and said "You tell me". He doesn't see the point in putting his two cent in anymore and starting to think that the others don't see him more than just a boring, worthless, out of date person that's just a stereotypical nerd.

However, when he starts actually looking deeper into the newspaper, he sees something different, something unexpected. A well thought out puzzle for him specifically. Showing that the others, Virgil specifically, knows Logan is more than boring. He like reading, yes. He likes puzzles, yes. Making it a game full of mystery and fun? You wouldn't think Logan would be into that but he is. It proves there is more to Logan. A happier side to him that he's repressed for means of being taken seriously.

The newspaper is a representation of Logan. On the outside, he's inconspicuous. He's normal. He's put together. You wouldn't think much of him or give him a second thought or glance. But, once you look deeper and actually start reading into him, you see a whole new, different person. Someone happier. Someone interesting. Someone hurt. Someone frustrated. Someone... that's more than meets the eye.

#sanders sides #sanders sides fandom #thomas sanders #logan sanders #virgil sanders #sanders sides headcanon #sanders sides theory

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randomnerd737 · 7 months

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Logan when he catches himself expressing emotions:

#logan sanders #sanders sides #thomas sanders #orange side logan #orange side theory #logan angst #dark side logan

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loganslowdown4 · 22 days

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This has been bugging me for a long time but I finally figured out the foreshadowing here—

It explains that Roman didn’t leave just because he felt ganged up on, betrayed or made fun of in SvS Redux—

He left mostly because he felt guilty. He feels like he didn’t do his job well enough—

I think this is probably not a new revelation but I think banter about it gets buried in the idea that no one seems to be on Roman’s side about his feelings towards Janus, or about Patton’s sudden ‘allegiance change’. I think those are fair points but I also think that Roman is heavily disappointed in himself for letting c!Thomas get so far off the rails that Thomas starts choosing alternate (less honourable) approaches to his decision-making (Janus). This is why Roman mentions his ‘mistakes’ in Flirting With Social Anxiety.

Also this is why Virgil is pissed about Thomas’ decisions in that video too. Thomas can’t keep lying to begin a new relationship with a new guy. Fortunately however, c!Thomas is spared having make an excuse (a lie) to approach Nico, because Nico approaches him instead.

Anyway, Roman needs a genuine win soon or I’m gonna explode 😃❤️

Thanks for reading! 😄

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