#simon snow meta

[ionlydrinkhotwater]

I've been thinking about the difference between Davy and Malcolm and how Malcolm hurt Baz by the things he never said but through his actions demonstrated that he loves Baz very much. Like he never openly says he approves of who Baz is and of course Bazs hurt is valid in wanting to hear the words and not getting them. But Malcolm shows that he accepts him by making sure Baz has animals to drink and inviting Simon to Christmas. And Baz wanting to reach out to his dad in WS when he felt overwhelmed, he imagined that his dad would say things he didn't want to hear EX leave Agatha to die, but he knows it would be coming from a place where he values Bazs life and safety over Baz being a hero and Baz in his lowest moment wanting his dad shows that even Baz knows his dad loves him.

On the flip side as RR pointed out Davy says really encouraging stuff to Simon but he put in zero emotional labour behind it and when he did praise Simon it had strong stage dad energy where it's more about pressure, control and even vicariously living though him than actually building Simon up. I think its sad that for Simon Davys empty words are good enough because he had no way of knowing that it wasn’t. I think in CO when Simon wants to go to the Mage after he learns he's the Humdrum it's not to seek answers or comfort I think he knows that he's going there to be destroyed. Like all he is as a person is what the Mage made him and he's going to him to be destroyed figuratively and literally.

I just read "Crying in H Mart by Michelle Zautner and how parents can't always understand or especially for certain generations, express themselves to their children but they find avenues to show their love and I feel like Baz and Malcolm have that sort of secret language of affection with each other: Malcolm doing things to show his love for his son, Baz mimicing Malcolms habits. And I also finished "I'm Glad my Mom Died" by Jennette McCurdy and I feel like her Stage mom had so much Davy energy maybe Simon will get to a place where he'll be glad he killed his dad. I think Simon can sort of grasp that he loved Davy and I think the part of his emotions he's repressing is the part of him that's relieved he's gone and that maybe a part of him hates Davy. And he'll have to grapple with feeling both those things about Davy someday. Yeah reading books about complicated relationships with moms made me think about CO dads

I do think it's interesting that Simon when he thought hed marry Agatha he said hed ask Dr Wellbelove what hed do for his future or in SFC when he says he wants to join the RAF and I although I think that's sweet that he wants to be like his grandfather I also wonder if it's Simon attaching himself to another father figure that is also emotionally one sided (not because Andrew is a bad person but he's dead and so Simon can infuse him with the "footballer" dad fantasy he had when he's an orphan) Simon is constantly looking for a grown man to tell him what to do and who he is. He seriously needs to talk to someone, his dad issues are very meaty

#simon snow #snowbaz #baz pitch #simon snow series #the simon snow trilogy #rainbow rowell #carry on rainbow rowell #simon snow trilogy #simon and baz #the mage #malcolm grimm #dad issues #simon snow meta

[yellowraincoat]

It absolutely grinds my gears that Carry On was canceled for “bi-erasure” because Simon said he was umbrella-term-gay at the end of the first book. Meanwhile, the entire book was literally about compulsory heterosexuality, and going through the motions of what’s expected of you [being straight, being the chosen one, being the villain, being a mage] because you think you should.

You can’t erase the bisexuality of a character who’s not bi guys 😭😭

Like by 1/4 through book three, Simon is basically describing himself as demisexual and unsure of his romantic orientation, but pretty sure he wasn’t attracted to Agatha 😂. That shit was never bi-erasure it was a young queer person just trying to figure himself out, and everyone was up in arms over the word choice of “gay” instead of “queer” or “part of the lgbtq+ community.”

It’s just bs and as an ace person I’m mad because this was the rep I needed as a teenager and the larger queer community wrote it off as problematic in a knee-jerk reaction.

[PSA im only part-way through any way the wind blows. If he’s not explicitly demi in the text, don’t tell me. I’ll find out if I was giving rainbow Rowell too much credit in my own time.]

#there are other valid reasons to cancel rainbow rowell— but bi erasure in carry on isn’t one of them #simon snow #carry on simon #baz grimm pitch #simon snow trilogy #the front seat is for people who haven’t been kidnapped by numpties #Simon snow meta #any way the wind blows

[luxken]

blah blah blah for simon love and safety are intrinsically tied to food blah blah blah simon gorges himself because he never knows when his last meal is going to be blah blah blah simon wants baz to feed on him because he wants to provide for baz and show that he loves him in a way he can’t with words blah blah blah “i'll give him everything he wants”

#food insecurity was the reality for simon for most of his life and I can deffo see how that's affected him even after attending watford #he eats a lot bc he knows for the summer he won't be able to #and because he associates watford with food security and having a place he belongshe associates watford with love #watford has shown simon more kindness than his childhood in orphanages ever did #so I think his desire to have baz feed from him stems from wanting to create a relationship where baz will always be loved #and because he has no other way to show baz he loves him- words fail him and simon has always been too much #so if he can be this for baz- be his source of sustenance be the person who will never shun him for his differences- he'll do it #he wants to be baz's feast he wants to be baz's home he wants he wants he wants #simon snow #tyrannus basilton grimm pitch #tyrannus basilton pitch #baz pitch #snowbaz #carry on #carry on meta #simon snow meta

[that-disabled-princess]

You know what, I'm making The Post.

Disability parallels in Carry On and why they matter

We know Simon's wings and tail are a metaphor for his queerness, but what about the disability parallels? The disability parallels in Simon's wings and tail, in Baz's vampirism, in Simon losing his magic.

Simon's wings and tail make life difficult for him. When he wears clothing at all, he has to either accommodate his wings and tail or deal with crushing them under clothing. Crushing them and that extra pressure can hurt like hell and really distract you, but having to constantly worry about accommodating yourself is also a huge pain. It takes a long time--learning to accommodate yourself and your disabilities in a world that just doesn't want to let you.

I'm pro-Simon keeping his wings and tail for this reason.

Baz's vampirism, while a metaphor for queerness, is also a metaphor for chronic illnesses. I don't have a chronic illness myself, so I can't really speak to this one, but it's still important to talk about the parallel. He has dietary accommodations he needs to survive, and not many people around him willing to accommodate that because of fear and prejudice.

As for Baz's leg... Oh, I'm so sick of the abled healing the disabled narrative. Let Baz be disabled. Let him have a fucked-up leg and use a posh cane. Let Simon and Baz be disabled boyfriends together.

Simon's magic is a whole other can of worms to open, but @messofthejess opened it this morning and I'm crawling through the unpleasant sliminess with them.

Simon losing his magic is an important disability parallel. He's had magic his entire life--had magic as a part of his body his entire life, even if he hated it the whole time--and now that part of himself, of his identity, is gone. Who is he without his magic? Who is he when the world he lives in revolves around and caters to people with magic? Who is he when people won't slow down to match the pace he's going at when he can no longer keep up?

Simon has to learn to live without his magic. Because as @ebbpettier said, tape exists. And sometimes wanting to go back to the way things were means you never move forward or grow. Because things will never go back to the way they were, too much has happened. You can never go back. Sometimes growing means letting go.

There are people who will accommodate Simon. He'll find his people. We all will. It'll be rough, it'll be hard, it'll take literal blood and sweat and an ocean of tears, but he'll get there.

These disability parallels are important and I think they should be talked about more.

#i'm disabled and have THOUGHTS #fuck it i am throwing them out there #the disability parallels are too important #the queer parallels are talked about a lot but the disability parallels are just... left behind #fandom is for disabled people too #carry on #baz pitch #simon snow #snowbaz #meta

[basilsleaf]

i have way too many ongoing projects so i will never write this but i need baz and simon's future told through encounters with simon's construction buddies, it goes like this:

most of the guys are older than simon it's like he's got a crew of dads

they're all straight dudes so they assume baz is simon's roommate who he's like best friends with until simon forgets his lunch or something and baz brings it to work for him and they smooch hello and goodbye

there's an awkward "so are you gay" moment but simon's like "i have a boyfriend and he's great is that a problem" and then it's over, the dad crew is supportive by nature and they adapt quickly

now at lunch or when they have drinks after work the guys ask about baz same as they ask about each other's wives and girlfriends and kids and simon feels very included

the guys have dinner and drinks every now and then where spouses come along and next time they invite simon to bring baz and baz is like not sure he's going to fit in and he's kind of right but the guys don't really care because simon is obviously smitten with him so what does it matter that baz is all posh

fast forward, baz finishes school and they're both nepotism babies so they decide to move to a new place with like a balcony and a guest room and simon tells the guys and they're all hype for him and they come over to help move furniture even though baz and simon can afford movers

fast forward, after lots and lots of trauma counseling simon is ready to start thinking about what he wants out of life and he's thinking maybe he wants to start a bakery or a cafe or something so he can be closer to his second and third truest loves: butter and carbs

when he's finally ready to open the cafe he announces to the guys that he's leaving and he's nervous that they'll be upset but they like completely lose it, they're so happy for him

they take him out for drinks on them, they promise to come in every tuesday for their morning coffee and donuts, they drop him off to baz at 2am on a thursday completely passed out, it's wonderful

fast forward, simon opens his business and sure enough, the guys are there every tuesday morning

fast forward, one tuesday the guys ask how things are going with baz and simon blushes super hard and pulls out the ring box he's been carrying around in his pocket since he bought it and the guys frighten the other customers with their excitement

two tuesdays later the guys come back after the cafe closes to take simon out for celebratory drinks because he finally asked and baz obviously said yes and the guys once again deliver simon home to baz absolutely wasted (with their congratulations)

at their wedding it's all insanely rich grimms and various distant pitches and lady ruth's family and also simon's old construction buddies tearing it up on the dance floor

fast forward, and life is just good and they have magic friends but also normal friends

baz is actually able to bond with them all over football, he even joins their recreational league for a few seasons and they are undefeated champions

one of the guys' kids feels safe enough to come out to their dad because simon and baz came over for dinner

simon teaches them all how to use tiktok and what a vibe is and encourages a few of them to go to therapy

they coach simon through marital arguments and buying a house and how to tell baz he wants kids

and maybe being a little normal isn't so bad when he's got a whole team on his side

#its making me emotional folks #just simon learning to be normal and magic at the same time #simon snow series #snowbaz #simon snow #baz pitch #simon #baz #sb #meta #fic #mine

[bazzybelle]

Good Omens 2 and Wayward Son - A Fan's Commentary on Fandom Reactions

I’m going to start off by saying apologies for any obvious grammatical errors. I am writing purely from the heart here. 

Also, apologies to my Sandman friends. If you haven’t read The Simon Snow Trilogy, this will go over your heads. However, I have been going back and forth on writing this meta since the release of Good Omens 2, and I just finished reading a spectacular meta on queer ships becoming canon by @avelera, which you can find here (read it, it’s brilliant). Anyway, I feel now’s a good time to let out all of my feelings when it comes to Good Omens 2 and how similar it was to reading Wayward Son. 

Simon Snow friends, you all know that Wayward Son is my favourite book out of the trilogy. You also know that this can be considered a controversial take within the fandom. And I don’t mean that in a toxic way, this fandom is one of the more wholesome fandoms I’ve seen; But in the way of like… Wayward Son is itself a polarizing book. 

I say this, knowing full well what went down when Wayward Son was released. Perhaps I had the advantage of not being completely embroiled within the Simon Snow  fandom until after I’d finished reading the book, but I lived on the periphery. I followed Rainbow on Twitter (fuck you, I am not calling it X), I had saved some artwork on Pinterest (before I found out those were stolen, wherein I immediately unpinned them and deleted my fandom folders), and I was excited to get Wayward Son as soon as it came out. So much so that I asked my husband to go to the Indigo near his office and buy it because I wanted to read it right away. 

Friends, I demolished that book within a DAY. 

Then I read it again. And again. And again. 

Then I wrote my first fanfiction in eight years. 

This book changed me. But you all know that. I’ve talked about it often, and that’s not what this meta (Editorial? Opinion piece? Shouting into the void?) is about. 

What I am going to talk about is the amount of pure vitriol this book got once it was released. There was SO MUCH complaining about the book. It was too short! There was no point to it! Why aren’t Simon and Baz having sexy vampire sex? Why aren’t they living together (never mind that this was briefly discussed at the end of Carry On, but go off I guess)? 

And you know what’s even funnier? Within a couple of weeks (it might have even been days, I’m a little fuzzy on timelines) Rainbow announced the third book. We knew, right away, that Wayward Son was meant to be an in-between book! Rainbow, being a fandom person herself, has said time and time again that she had always considered Wayward Son as an in-between book, structured like The Empire Strikes Back within the Star Wars original trilogy. Like think of the in-between books of any series, they are ALWAYS the darkest ones. In order to fully appreciate the win in the end, you need to go through the tough shit. 

What I loved about Wayward Son was it took that idea and spun it. It went all “ok, yeah we dealt with the win, now let’s deal with the aftermath. Only then can we have the makeouts and sexy times these guys deserved.”  (and damn, did Any Way The Wind Blows deliver on that promise).

But I am getting away from myself again. Point is, it was always meant to be an in-between book. There was always meant to be a resolution at the end of the trilogy. But that sure as hell didn’t stop people from outright demanding Rainbow give them the happy ending NOW. Pestering her on Twitter, (not so much on Tumblr) demanding she do this, or do that, or “you better not kill Baz” (even though she has ALWAYS SAID SHE NEVER WOULD) or “they better not break up” (even though, narratively, it was heading in that direction). The closer the book got to release date, the more people complained about how awful Wayward Son was. 

It was really disheartening to see. 

Which is why I got really upset when the SAME THING happened after the release of Good Omens 2. 

(For clarification purposes, because several of my friends have spoken to me about their own personal issues with Good Omens 2. And you are all super fucking valid. I am strictly referring to the amount of anger I saw online because although Aziraphale and Crowley kissed, they didn’t have an immediate happily ever after. I am also speaking of the anger expressed because the season wasn’t wrapped up in a neat little bow.)

Like with the release of Wayward Son, people seemed to have forgotten that season 2 of Good Omens was meant to be an inbetween season. Neil Gaiman has not been shy to talk about that. He has said over and over again that Season 2 was always meant to be a bridge between the Good Omens he and Terry Pratchett wrote together, and the sequel they had been planning. 

What… did you all just forget about that? Do you not know how narrative writing works? 

It’s like people refused to take a step back and breathe for a second and appreciate the season for what it was. A beautiful romantic story (because, IT WAS! Just like Neil said it would be), as well as a lead up into what will be the epic, dramatic conclusion. No, instead people started demanding the happy ending NOW, and getting angry when Neil wouldn’t budge and offer more information (even though he never has before) (funny how people just… forgot that).

It was Wayward Son all over again.

Yeah, I’m not going to lie, I was crushed with the way Good Omens 2 left off. Just like I was so confused when Wayward Son ended out of the blue. You know what I did about that? I wrote fic, I read the book again, and I happily anticipated the upcoming final part that would tie up all the loose ends.

Know what I’m doing to heal after Good Omens 2? I’m looking at gifs, rewatching episodes, laughing at memes and crack, and hoping to all the gods of story writing that Amazon approves of a third season, so that Neil Gaiman can be allowed to finish the story he and Terry Pratchett built together.

It’s become sad to watch this feral hunger from fans demanding immediate gratification, and getting upset when it isn’t the ending or gratification they were expecting. Wayward Son came out after years of Carry On fans having nothing else but the one book. Like I said, I wasn’t part of the fandom then, so I don’t know how fans from 2015 felt upon learning they’d get more Simon and Baz. Same with Good Omens. I only really got into the fandom a few months before season 2 came out. So I don’t know how OG fans felt waiting and waiting and waiting. So maybe I have that going for me as an advantage, that my hunger wasn’t growing more and more feral. 

Then again, I’m now a part of The Sandman fandom, and we’re essentially waiting on Season 2 to start development. And while I’m hoping a few things are tweaked (like Dream and Hob’s relationship), I’d be more than fine if it stays the same as in the comics. And if they decide to go about that in an entirely different way, I’d be fine with that too. You know why? Because I’ve learned to trust the writers of the stories I love not to lead me astray. 

And if I’m unhappy with something –because nothing is ever 100% perfect, and even my favourite stories end up coming short– there are always fanfictions to write, gifs to laugh at, and fandom friends to discuss plots and meta with. 

I may have lost the point of this meta. I tend to do that, following a train of thought that doesn’t always make sense in the end. 

Fandom friends, can we all just agree to take a breath and be thankful of the stories given to us? Can we learn to appreciate the entire picture, and not just a tiny section of it? And for the love of all that is holy, can we learn to be patient and to listen when our story tellers remind us to wait and see? To trust them when they assure us that our characters will have a happy ending, even if they need to traverse a little in the dark to get there?

I sure as hell am, and I hope you will too. 

Gonna tag @carryonsimoncarryonbaz because she was instrumental in encouraging me to write this.

#belle babbles #more like belle shouts into the fandom void #GO2 just reminded me A LOT of Wayward Son #both with the fan reaction #and with the overall vibes #I may write another longer better thought out meta comparing the two #but for now I just wanted to get my initial feelings out #as a fan who loved both WS and GO2 #who was very sad to experience this nonsense twice #simon snow #baz pitch #the simon snow trilogy #snowbaz #wayward son #anthony j crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #good omens #good omens 2 #neil gaiman #rainbow rowell

[asoiafcanonjonsnow]

Snow Bros: The Parallel Journeys of Simon and Jon Snow

Simon Snowlock Art: Credit || Jon Snow Art: Credit

It’s not a secret that George R.R. Martin was inspired by the fantasy series “Memory, Sorrow & Thorn” when he was writing ASOIAF. Here is what he has said himself on the subject:

"Tad’s fantasy series, The Dragonbone Chair and the rest of his famous four-book trilogy was one of the things that inspired me to write my own seven-book trilogy."

Source

The premise of “Memory, Sorrow & Thorn” is the political turmoil in a country after the King dies while in the far North, supernatural creatures are about to destroy mankind. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

We won’t list here all the similarities between those two series (which are a lot, mind you!) because the focus of this meta are the parallels between Simon Snowlock (MS&T's Main Character) and our Jon Snow.

Both start their series as fourteen year old boys who are unaware of their true royal lineage. Simon’s father was a descendant of Eahlstan Fiskerne King of the Hayholt. Rhaegar Targaryen was the son and heir to King Aerys II Targaryen and through his father, he is the descendant of all the Targaryens that ruled Westeros.

Simon’s father was already dead by the time he was born while his mother lived long enough to name him (his real name is Seoman, by the way!) before she died in her childbirth bed. Similarly, Rhaegar died at the Trident before Lyanna gave birth to Jon. Lyanna lived long enough to ask her brother to protect her son “Promise me, Ned” and perhaps to also to name him? There is a lot speculation within the fandom that Jon was given a different name by his mother. "He was no Aemon Targaryen." (wink, wink) Perhaps a Targaryen one, befitting a son of a Targaryen Prince?

Simon lived his whole life as a kitchen boy in the Hayholt’s castle, like Jon lived his as a bastard of Winterfell. People in Hayholt’s castle called him “Ghost Boy” and interestingly enough, that’s the name Jon choses to give to his beloved Direwolf, 'Ghost'.

At the beginning of the first book, both characters are forced to leave their childhood home and their story is heavily intertwined with the supernatural creatures of the North.

Both boys have powerful, magical dreams. Simon has his prophetic visions and Jon has his wolf dreams, and some prophetic visions (him seeing Benjen dying), the crypt dreams that haunt him.

During Simon’s fight with an ice dragon, he gets a scar to his left eye and also a lock of white hair and he is said to be “marked by the dragon”. Jon already has a similar scar but he doesn’t have a lock of white hair. Could he possibly acquire that post his resurrection as a hint for his true lineage? Simon also gains the nickname “Snowlock” because of his hair and well that sounds too similar to Jon’s surname.

At some point in the series, Simon falls into a coma state being between life and death. A little girl, Leleth, is showing him visions of the past, while princess Maegwin sacrifices herself transferring her energy to him so he can return to his body. For all we know, Jon is dead by end of ADWD but it’s obvious that Martin is far from over with his story. Could he possibly enter a state between life and death where someone (Bloodraven perhaps?) will reveal to him the truth of Robert’s Rebellion aka the secret of his birth? Also, Melisandre believes that she needs to sacrifice “two kings to wake the dragon” what if she does that believing that she will gain a stone dragon hidden within the Wall but instead she wakes the son of the dragon, aka Jon Snow?

It is interesting to mention here that Simon ends up the series as King of the Realm despite the fact that he was never among the candidates who fought for the Dragonbone Chair. He is the unlikely King. Likewise, gaining a throne couldn’t be further from Jon’s current mindset. However Jon, thanks to his Targaryen lineage and King Robb’s will, could end up becoming King of Westeros or King in the North. We are not saying that alternative endgames don’t exist for him, but him ending up as a King isn’t a far fetched theory, either. In case he does end up King, he could either rule alone or be a co-ruler together with his wife. After all, Simon - the character Jon’s was inspired from- was aided in his ruling duties by his wife Queen Miriamele.

#Jon Snow #asoiafcanonjonsnow #canonjonsnow #Memory Sorrow and Thorn #Simon #Seoman Snowlock #Original Post #ValyrianScrolls #Valyrian Scrolls #A Song of Ice and Fire #ASOIAF #Meta #Text #Parallels #Art #Official #Edited

[norringtondeservestheworld]

I got bored and I noticed that there are a lot of similarities between Game of Thrones’ characters and Detroit: Become Human’s characters and these are the two fandoms I am more active at the moment, so I made this. Enjoy.

Bonus Brienne and Simon because they are my favorites from each story and they have a lot in common and I couldn't add it all in one image

#I'm so close to write a meta about connor and jaime's arc being exactly the same it's insane how similar it is I swear #detroit: become human #detroit become human #dbh #dbh connor #jaime lannister #dbh markus #jon snow #dbh simon #brienne of tarth #dbh kara #catelyn stark #sansa stark #dbh north #connor rk800 #markus rk200 #simon pl600 #north wr400 #gotta love how there isn't a cersei in dbh #anti cersei lannister

[bookish-bogwitch]

Trope Grading Game aka Grope Trading Game

Thanks for the tags @artsyunderstudy, @you-remind-me-of-the-babe, and @aristocratic-otter! This seems like a lot of fun.

@ileadacharmedlife @moodandmist @facewithoutheart @skee3000 @ivelovedhimthroughworse @cutestkilla @thewholelemon @raenestee, and everyone whose fic is mentioned below and everyone reading this, consider yourself tagged if you haven't gone!

Rules: How much do these tropes affect your decision to click on a fic?

-10 -> very dissuaded

0 - don’t care either way

+10 -> very enticed

nope -> if it’s a hard no and you’d never click on a fic with that tag or or you even have the tag blocked or you’d insta click out of the fic if it wasn’t tagged

Bonus points for explaining the rating and whether it’s conditional.

Age gap: -2

Not into it at all for younger characters, but I don't mind for older ones. I haven't read a lot of couples with bigger age gaps but I wouldn't rule out enjoying it in the right context--though I can't see being into it for the sake of the trope itself. (I love you for you, Malcolm Grimm.) Codependency: Interdependency: +7

The template asks about codependency but I finally looked up what codependency means and it's about an uneven relationship where a partner, friend, or family member subsumes their own needs in the course of accommodating / enabling another person's destructive behavior. Is that anyone's jam? There's a reason Rainbow skipped the 12 months between the CO epilogue and the start of WS...

But if we're talking interdependency, then I'm super into it. Octavia Butler was right: "dependency is sexy if it's chosen and not coercive. Symbiosis is a kind of dependency. A dependency of equals is best." Snowbaz symbolizes this with the whole hot/cold body temp thing, which is #sharingabedgoals, and there's lots of great fic in this fandom exploring it, my all-time fave being @fatalfangirl's stunning Bound and Determined.

Obsession/Possessiveness, jealousy: +2

Obsession, sure, sign me up. What is Simon at all those football practices if not obsession?

And I can get behind jealousy as a device for revealing the depth of otherwise hidden or even denied feelings. But active, power-and-control-wheel possessiveness? Gross.

Opposites (grumpy/sunshine etc): +5

Yeah! I love watching the grump's walls come down. But with the caveat that the sunshine can't be a one-dimensional, manic pixie dream character, because the that's just boring and I don't care about them.

Enemies to lovers, Enemies with benefits: +5

What snowbaz fan isn't into this? But a key element for me is that there has to be some reason behind the initial enemies dynamic besides one or both of them just being an asshole. Maybe they think that's what's up at first and then learn otherwise, but if their enemy status is based on something real, like they genuinely hate each other based on accurate knowledge about each other, I find it implausible and probably also difficult to like one or both of them.

That's part of why Snowbaz works for me: Baz and Simon's enemy status was imposed on them by a fucked up political system and abusive caretakers. Left to their own devices they'd probably never have been enemies. The reason for their animosity is not the core of who they are.

Friends with benefits: +2

Ehhh is it benefits to full on love? I don't really connect with allo perspectives on sexual relationships, like I get them intellectually but I don't jive with them on an emotional level, so there has to be that emotional draw for me, that underlying romance. I mean tho, @fatalfangirl stacy is writing an excellent fic on this premise right now that I absolutely love because there are clearly feelings involved. But it also might fall more into the realm of the next trope on this list ... which is ...

What Ashton said 😂 also props to fandom for teaching me that I am demisexual, and that this is not a default mode of existence.

Sex to feelings: [phone]

It's the fucking BEST. You get to read all the smut and then the climax ISN'T "and then we did it," it's "and then we were emotionally intimate." You get to be horny and a sap.

I also think this trope inherently pushes writers' creativity because the relationship's progression can't follow standard mainstream romance beats. And the sex scenes usually have narrative significance by showing how the relationship is changing, which produces great writing.

Fake dating/relationship: +5

Yes, especially if there's lots of pining along the way! @captain-aralias's Unintended is a great example.

Friends to lovers: +3

I wouldn't say I seek this out specifically but there are so many great fics with this tag. Here are a few (but not all) of my favorites: I'd Gladly Eat You for Breakfast by @whogaveyoupermission What Remains After the Storm by @hushed-chorus Sixty Seconds by @artsyunderstudy Petrichor by @martsonmars And again Unintended by @captain-aralias

Found Family: +1

It's fine? I love moving proofs of love and affection outside of romance, but whether it's in something that fits the label "found family" or not is important to me.

Hurt/Comfort: +10

PUT IT DIRECTLY. INTO MY MOUTH. I am a fucking sap for hurt/comfort. It gives me the swoops. There is fucking nothing I like better than lovers (or almost lovers) comforting each other and taking care of each other, emotionally, physically, spiritually, whatever. It's sexy to me. It affects me deeply.

#WhatAshtonSaid. I literally have a WIP going where someone says "who did this to you??" just because I love it so much. I'm pretty sure Nightmares and Excuses was the first fic that made me cry. (It's not hard to do.)

Love Triangle: -8

Not my thing if there's genuine heartbreak / unrequited love floating around. That just bums me out. I get a kick out of the Agatha-Simon-Baz's confusion in CO, but only Penny thinks that's actually a love triangle. I think the only book I've ever loved with a "real" love triangle is Emma and even [SPOILER FOR 208-YEAR-OLD-BOOK] Harriet's not actually in love with Mr. Knightley, she just thinks she is.

Poly, open relationships: -4

Only if it's porn without plot and even then it's pretty rare that I'm into it. I'm not usually interested in sex scenes without a romantic/love element (even if that element is deeply repressed) and am personally very monogamous and have a hard time connecting with poly relationship themes. Which obviously does not mean that poly =/= emotional or romantic connection, not at all, it's just a tough one to wrap my head around.

@skee3000 nailed this for me in Minos, by having Simon and Baz connect with each other even as they have three-way with Mr. Minos, but now I'm conflating a threesome with poly/open relationships. Go read it anyway.

Mistaken/hidden identity: +2

Not sure I can think of a Snowbaz fic that focuses on this, although I'm sure there are some. I do like it when characters meet for the first time and are drawn to each other, only to learn that each other's larger identities make that complicated. And the trust issues that brings up. There are a couple of KJ Charles novels that deal with this really beautifully.

Monsterfucking: +5

I really love when monsterfucking is used as a way to celebrate difference and work through a character's feelings about their own body or its changes. This fandom does a great job with that. Otherwise I'm not drawn to any particular monsters for their monstery sake (but see: Minos's horns).

Pregnancy: -2

+8 for mpreg, -10 for other pregnancy.

I stalled out for two weeks on this post, wondering how to explain this without getting darker and more personal than I'd like. And then realized I don't have to explain 😃.

Second Chance: +7

Love it! I don't always have the heart to read the actual breakup, or falling out, or lost opportunity etc., but I love fics where that has already happened and we're seeing them put themselves back together. Some examples, that may or may not have this tag but definitely have this theme:

What's Left by @cutestkilla This Will All Go Down in Flames by @facewithoutheart There's Be Peace When You Are Done by somekindofpath Once More, with Feeling by fox_pitch

And probably countless others I'm forgetting.

Slowburn: +10

Yeah! I know I said I love sex before feelings but I love this too. (And I think they can be successfully combined into slow-feelings-burn.) There's nothing like a satisfying, well-earned payoff. I also admire well-executed slowburns because whenever I write a get-together fic I have to actively resist mashing their faces together in the first 100 words.

Soulmates: -1

In theory I don't love these. The red string, etc. It can just feel played out, and also the emotional logic of it is kind of alienating. I have a hard time putting my head into a world where people have these predestined connections and are trying to find each other because it's just so not how I see relationships. BUT when an author critically and playfully messes with the trope, it can be lots of fun. All This Soulmate Shit by half_witch mashes up a dozen different soulmate tropes to make something that's brilliant, funny, sexy, and feels like they are actively choosing each other rather than obeying destiny. I also adore Bound and Determined by @fatalfangirl for how it plays with the idea of free will and consent, which feel like soulmate-related theme. But it's probably not a coincidence that this fic doesn't have the "soulmates" tag.

That's a lot of me me me and what I think. What do YOU think, friends?

#tag game #trope grading game #navel gazing #simon snow fandom meta-talk

[tyrannuspitch]

thinking about how the fragile alliance that reconciles sworn enemies simon and baz is... literally them plotting a murder together. like, they tend not to frame it that way, but baz says that's what he's doing at the beginning of their alliance, and simon doesn't walk away.

this is going to sound like a joke, but i'm serious: i think plotting murder together is an actual bonding activity / fucked-up love language for baz. he does this with his family!!! not in quite the same way, but still... i think the idea of being united with someone against the world is a very important one to him. i think he's very morally self-sacrificial with his family, and the idea that simon is willing to work with him, to "lower himself" to enabling "villainy", feels like a moral self-sacrifice being made for him. which is troubling, of course, but also very romantic.

like seriously let's think about it. years upon years of being taught that love is a reward for perfection and perfection includes willingness to be violent. willingness to set aside all your fears and loneliness and moral qualms and make sacrifices for your family, who have already sacrificed so much by allowing you to live. willingness to murder others. especially one boy in particular, a boy you are growing up with, a boy you share a room with. to give your life trying to murder him when surely he would win. and then there comes a time when family duty means you have to work with that boy. he's dirtying his hands by working with you. he thinks you want to kill him and he's still doing this willingly. but it won't last. you have this brief time together but he's still going to kill you in the end. and this only makes you fall more deeply in love with him. because this is what love is, isn't it? (or at least it's what love is now, for you. perhaps you could have had something else, once, but that possibility died with your mother, and this is what remains.)

#carry on reread 2024 #baz pitch #simon snow #co meta #love is murdering someone alongside someone who would murder you - tyrannus basilton grimm-pitch #OBSESSED with whatever is going on his brain <3

[sailorblossoms]

Expectations really did kick Baz’s ass in ways that are wild yet... funny? somehow? (This is rant is a messy compilations of thoughts, some I’ve already shared here. If you decide to read this, godspeed)

I think about the rat hunting date, when Baz asks Simon, “you had sex with your gf, right?” – now, I’ve seen Baz being portrayed all blushy like “whaaat? i can’t get over this, tmi” or something, but I don’t think that’s it. Baz has thought about Simon sexually and has had Sexual Urges for years. When he asks this... he has already put 2 and 2 together in his head: “surely Simon would be the same with the only person he has ever wanted” – because that’s how he thought! In CO, Baz tells you that he believes Simon has only ever wanted Agatha the entire time he has known him. Baz was fully expecting Simon to reply “yeah, we did it, I liked it, it was good” and whatever. When Baz is like “that’s good” he’s operating on the assumption that sex is something to be congratulated for. Something The Bros hi5 each other over because it’s good and mind-blowing and shit (given how Dev talked to him about sucking cock, Baz is probably familiar with these scene). He was fully prepared to be like “I don’t like this, but there you have it: you were attracted to a girl, now you are attracted to me. That’s bisexuality.” It would have been the “easy” and “simple” scenario, but the opposite happenes. 

The reason Baz chokes all over rat's blood is not because he’s surprised by “yes, this thing happened” but likely 1. timing (he’s at his most vulnerable, doing something he associates with shame, Simon sharing this is the same) 2. it’s different to assume and to hear it being confirmed out loud. That whole exchange about Simon being like “I thought you knew” “I did, mostly” or something has to be about expectations and assumptions. There’s no way Baz would know for sure – these bitches were not talking about this. It makes the most sense that Simon, aware of expectations for boys like him and long-term relationships and a shit ton of other comphet bullshit and who he was supposed to be and be doing etc etc would be like “If I know, if I’m aware of these things, Baz would know too, he’s a smart cookie” and Baz is indeed aware. 

However!! Baz is dead wrong about a couple of things: 

1. He is the only person Simon has ever wanted (Simon tells us in WS! In italics! as if he needs to correct past assumptions that he ever wanted someone else before Baz!) This is where Simon gets the closest to voice this to him. in ways that are more romantic (“nothing I’ve ever experienced compares to you”) but perhaps less direct than explicitly thinking about sex with Baz and going “yep Baz is the only one I’ve ever wanted like this” (the only person he has ever actually wanted to have sex with) (If Baz thought Simon was only into Agatha while in school, it means Simon never showed actual romantic and/or sexual interest in anybody) (that’s not Baz)

2. The assumption that sex is always good/something to congratulate someone over (he should know better by this point... baby we’re going to get you a therapist to unpack those insecurities one of these days!) and that sex is confirmation of attraction, which Simon shuts down immediately (on both accounts!). This is what kicks Baz’s ass when he’s choking all over blood. That Simon is like “what the fuck are you congratulating me over? hell no, get this away from me” while kicking walls and trying to direct the conversion from something uncomfortable and unsexy (comphet sex) to something very sexy for Simon (Baz hunting. Baz covered in blood. Baz doing a little murder.) 

Now, Simon doesn’t outright say: “comphet sex sucks in such complex and confusing ways – this was a bad experience for me that I’m only now beginning to unpack, but I would rather not unpack it because it unsettles the shit out of me. While lots of us go through confusing and unsettling shit in the process of figuring ourselves out, I do not understand what it means that I chose to do this thing when I didn’t experience attraction, nor did I actually want it.” But it’s there, trust me. (Or don’t trust me. You’re welcomed to go through my little blog to find me unpacking this with examples and specific paragraphs and all that nerdy shit. Most of it it’s said without Simon outright saying it). 

“It was just going through the motions” is truly all you need to say it sucked ass (I feel like that winnie the pooh meme when I read “sex was good for them” in any way shape or form like... do we know what going through the motions means. Do we know it’s indicative of not being into it. Nerve endings and whatever stimulations are not necessarily going to override the negativity if your mind and emotions are not into it. Simply sticking something in a warm place is not good enough!) But Simon saying “it was fine” is more notable to me because, first of all, “fine” can be negative or positive depending on context. In a scale of things that are supposed to be super good and mind-blowing or whatever, “fine” is “meh” – it’s dismissive! it’s indicative of dissapoinment, even! shit could be much better than this! Also, “tis but a scratch” is Simon: 

Don’t wait for him to say “it sucked ass” to be sure it sucked ass!! Anyway, going back to Bazzy-boy: this is part of what Simon is communicating to him in ways that might be confusing and are certainly surprising to Baz. None of what Simon tells him is the “easy” or “simple” scenario. Baz doesn’t expect all this confusion – things are pretty clear for him (he has known himself/his sexuality for a long time now). Even the wrong things seem clear – though in his defense, Baz’s wrong assumptions are pretty normal assumptions. 

3. Simon is telling him that he wasn’t attracted to the one person Baz thought Simon had been into his entire life is important to note because Baz has actual programming he has to actively work against here. The only times Simon has ever pushed himself to process and then voice all the ways in which his past relationship was wrong were in the presence of Baz. Because Simon wants Baz to know. 

4. Going back to Baz having normal yet wrong assumptions... I really do mean it when I say Simon is trying to change the subject from unsexy to sexy haha. Baz assumed Simon would be normal about romance and sexual attraction, but he’s hit with “me doing a little murder is my declaration of love for you” “slaying a chimera in hindsight is totally a romantic thing, didn’t that give my love for you away?” “obviously there’s no heterosexual explanation for me showing up at all your football practices. let me say i didn’t like in 5th year and I still don’t like you anyway, like a damn liar”  “actual sex with my past gf? unsexy as hell, i’ll take no further questions thank you” “it’s very sexy when you hunt” “I want to kiss your bloody mouth with your fangs out, who the fuck cares about the plague!”

#baz pitch #simon snow #simon snow trilogy #sometimes i write concise and comprehensible metas #this is not one of those times #a true word vomit #carry on

[ionlydrinkhotwater]

SO SIMON CAN SING

So some of us were trying to determine if Simon can sing. He never does throughout the whole series except when he tells us that he Sings the school song in CO.

We know that Baz can sing Simon tells us that he can and his siblings like when he Sings them to sleep. In WS Simon says Penny is flat and that in Co and AWTWB Agatha can sing but is embarrassed by her voice.

If Simon was bad at singing he would tell us. But he never says one way or another.

So I asked God herself

So we have the answer. What's interesting to me is that there is some evidence in the text that supports this inspite of the fact that Rainbow Rowell admitted she hadn't thought if it before being asked there are clues in the books that support her answer, shes not giving herself enough credit lol.

In CO he says this

And In WS Simon says this as he watches Baz and Penny sing.

He laments that choir was taken away. There's a wistfulness in this sentence.

Thank You @rainbowrowell so much for answering!!!!!!! You've made us all so happy!!!!!!!!

#simon snow #simon snow series #baz pitch #snowbaz #the simon snow trilogy #carry on rainbow rowell #rainbow rowell #simon snow trilogy #simon and baz #carry on meta #character study #co/ws/awtwb #scattered showers #my rosebud boy #the simon snow series

[erzbethluna]

We like to think Lucy was going to be the perfect ideal accepting cute mom we want for Simon, and that she would open her arms selflessly to his boy's boyfriend and bless their union. And she is, she totally would. But I bet she would be a little shit about it, and she would DUEL Baz on a football match to prove his worth of Simon's hand. She would ruthlessly take down this kid who claims to be her son's true love. "Let's see, Basilton Pitch, if you are good enough for my son. Break me in a football match, no magic, and then you can attempt to propose to him. Salisbury's don't play games boy, we win them!" Simon would shout in embarrassment 'mooooommmm' and Baz would be compelled by Old Family blood manners to accomplish, only to be ugly beaten by his mother-in-law. Like, very ugly beaten down in the football pitch. (Of course she just does it for the fun and bless their union anyway, and she would bond with Baz over sports, team sports, cars and old magic. She would never shut up about how Baz is not 'strong enough for her son' but she does it jokingly and Baz just rolls his eyes in fondness. Simon never stops yelling 'moooommmm' everytime Lucy brings it xD )

#this is my design #lucy is a little shit in the best way possible #ruthless sportsy jocks #baz is a bit terrified but bonds over protecting simon even it is just a joke #basilton pitch #ba #snowbaz #simon snow #carry on trilogy #simon baz #simon snow salisbury #tyrannus basilton grimm pitch #baz pitch #carryon #baz x simon #simon and baz #simon snow series #carry on meta #carry on headcanon

[wellbelesbian]

riffing off of this post,

Daphne having very little power (and this being a source of shame for her) as well as a Welsh accent is further proof that the World Of Mages’ classism runs parallel with general UK classism.

It is primarily people from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and the general north who end up falling behind, both because the Normal government mostly pretends they don’t exist and all but cuts them off from public services (such as the trains not running north of York right now, because why hurt the officials who live in the south with rail strikes when the north is a much easier target?) and because the magic schooling system is so deeply built upon language and pronunciation.

Watford literally has elocution classes, the same as extremely posh schools like Eton, yet they can’t even divert some resources to try and find a sign language spell equivalent for Pippa. This just goes to show that nobody seems to be considering alternative ways of casting spells in the UK. Baz speaks French and Greek, but where are the Scots, Welsh and Gaelic lessons? Upper class “taught” accents such as Received Pronunciation/The Queen’s English are placed above all other accents and languages, and so not being raised to speak it puts you at an automatic disadvantage where you will have to work harder to catch up with your posher classmates. Not to mention how those who have an accent due to growing up in another country and English being their second language might fare.

In fact, before the reforms, a non-southern accent probably would have made it harder for people to even get into Watford in the first place. Hell, in the real world just a few years ago it was revealed that schools in the south wouldn’t hire northern teachers unless they could get rid of their accent, often a part of somebody’s heritage, because they believed the students wouldn’t be able to understand them, even though the language is the same and the dialect isn’t that different.

I fully believe that, if only given the chance, most spells would still work in any accent and regional/slang spells would actually be a lot stronger. I love my accent and my slang that southerners laugh at. It’s a source of pride, and that’s powerful. but the WOM is so fundamentally classist that this has just never been explored, and might never be. and that is why Daphne should get to blow up the coven.

edit: according to the book, Daphne is northern. i am northern and i swear her accent sounds more Welsh in the audiobook, but either way my pour still stands.

#meta #is this meta??? #it’s certainly an essay of some kind #this started as a joke but then i got too heated and now i’m serious #carry on #co/ws/awtwb #simon snow trilogy

[shrekgogurt]

All I’m saying is Nick Jonas’s “Jealous” came out in the mid-2010s. And Baz tells us there’s constantly music playing in Las Vegas. And so there’s a non-zero chance that as Simon Snow is standing half a block away not smiling…such a song is playing.

And I want it to be so. We deserve that levity. A little giggle. A little laugh.

#over for y’all when emma and I write our crack meta for WS #it’s a new genre #wayward son #simon snow #baz pitch #Youtube

[basilsleaf]

actually i'm not done strap in.

aside from simon and baz being adorable cohabitating boyfriends (still screaming about the wall kissing) snow for christmas made me sad.

baz doesn't want to be closeted by his family - about his queerness and his vampirism. "everything i am is something no one can mention." everyone is so excited at dinner about him eating with them as a family, but the reason he never ate with them before was because they can't stand to acknowledge what he is. simon never cared about the fangs. baz's family didn't have to care either, but that would require seeing their children as children and not props.

what is malcom really excited about at dinner? he's excited about this part of his child, the part he has always despised, being out of sight at long last. he's so glad he doesn't have to look at this part of his son that he's willing to tolerate the other thing about baz that he hates (queerness). he's pleased with simon because he thinks simon is the one who made the unmentionable thing go away. there's nothing heartwarming in that.

simon loves that baz is a vampire, even the gross parts. baz can kiss him with rat blood on his mouth and simon doesn't blink. simon wants to go hunting and watch baz drink. he thinks it's gorgeous. baz's own family can't bring themselves to love him that much.

this christmas with the grimms doesn't feel like a first step. it feels like a continuation of the same old shitty cycle.

#dude i just keep waiting for baz to accept his vampirism the way simon does and get a self love journey but ill never get it #SIGH #baz #simon #baz pitch #simon snow series #snow for christmas #critical #i guess? #just to be safe #meta #daphne gets like 10% rights because at least she hugs him regularly #the children are ofc exempt #love those little billie piper babies #fiona does not get rights #one of these days ill rant about her #it will be ugly #mine