#skeptical theism

[calibrationneeded]

It’s 2 am you know what that means, overthinking about the implications of god and heaven.

Like, if the multiverse theory is to be believed, does that mean that there are infinitely many version of you in the after life? Do yo all merge into one continuous? Are the infinity many afterlives? And if that’s the case, are than infinity many gods? Did someone create those gods? And who created that god? And so on and so forth.

#I’m rambling #I’m tired but I’ve had so much caffeine #my philosophy prof made a monster out of me #philosophy #determinism #libertarianism #skeptical theism

[flyin-shark]

thoughts on antitheism?

tldr: I agree with antitheism but I’m not very vocal about it since I don’t think that’s the best way to change minds.

I ended up writing a whole essay on this so prepare yourselves.

I think everyone should believe in as many true things and as few false things as possible. For that we need a reliable way or method of determining what’s true and what isn’t true. We should also not accept something as true or not true without first applying some methodology to it. Faith is not a reliable source of truth since you can believe in anything (including false things) using faith.

I think believing in a god is bad because you’re believing in something without sufficient evidence (unless you have sufficient evidence for god in which case a lot of people would love to see it including me).

But that’s more about why I’m an atheist than an antitheist. I think believing in a very basic god or a deistic god that just started the universe and did nothing else isn’t too problematic besides the fact that we don’t have enough evidence to accept that as true. Most theists however believe in some kind of god that has certain rules for everyone to follow. Often sending people to a certain afterlife depending on whether they met certain conditions or not. This can cause many problems.

I’m speaking from a Christian-centric standpoint so forgive me for not talking about other gods and religions. I think the concept of hell is abhorrent. Especially if you’re going to claim that your god is all-loving or omni-benevolent. No one should be tortured for eternity. Period. People grow up believing hell is real and often have nightmares about going there and being tortured just for having doubts, not forgiving someone, being lgbtq, or otherwise doing something ‘sinful’ that is actually just a normal human experience.

I’d argue that heaven isn’t good either. Imagine having to sing someone’s praises for all of eternity. Imagine supposedly existing in a state of pure bliss and happiness while knowing that billions of people are burning for eternity. Most of them being in hell simply for not believing the same god as you or any god at all. Feeling pure happiness while being aware of that fact is a contradiction to me.

I think a lot of things within Christianity that are taught as good things are actually not as good as they seem. Forgiveness seems like a good thing on the surface but consider that you don’t actually need to forgive anyone. Forgiving someone is what you do when you’re ready to put something behind you and move on. If someone harms you in a way that you can never trust them again then you aren’t obligated to forgive them. Forgiveness is for the victim to give at their discretion not anyone else. You shouldn’t feel ashamed for not being able to forgive someone. Also it’s strange to me that the person causing harm can ask god for forgiveness and be forgiven. God wasn’t involved. God wasn’t the victim. He has no standing to forgive anyone at all.

As I said at the beginning I agree with antitheism and I accept the label but I don’t usually use it. If you’re trying to change minds then I think there’s a few effective ways of doing that. Simply being a good person and an atheist can shake some people’s convictions since a lot of them are told that atheists can’t be good people. Another way is to focus on asking questions and “planting seeds” if you will. Asking what they think about hell, slavery, or specific contradictions in the Bible won’t make them stop believing immediately but it might make them start asking questions. Look into street epistemology.

Starting arguments with theists and immediately bringing up all of these points isn’t an effective strategy to me. It’s better to get to know the person and what they as an individual believe. You should find common ground and work from there. I should specify I’m just talking about talking to theists on an individual level. This isn’t a “debate in the marketplace of ideas” take.

In short, God is not love. God is a monster and it is morally virtuous to rebel against him. Good thing there’s no good reason to think he exists.

There’s a lot I probably forgot to mention here but anyway. I’m curious what everyone else thinks about the subject.

#shark sayin stuff #atheism #anti theism #skepticism

[riosid]

Any parent who subject's their child to the thought that they are born in sin is abusing their child mentally. if they genuinely believe what they preach, they are still enabling abuse unconsciously. Religious trauma is real and Abrahamic religion are inherently abusive and traumatic.

#atheist #lgbtqia+ #gay #atheism #anti theism #theism #the invisible man #christianity #islamic #islam #skeptic #religious dogma #religious abuse #religious trauma

[rainbow-demon503]

not enough astrology hate tags here imo. time to change that. the esoterists are way to comfy here

#astrology hate #astrobs #< my entries #if you have any good tags or blogs to follow lemme know #atheist #skepticism #anti theism

[waywardshepherdtees]

#atheistshirts #atheistpride #atheism #atheistfashion #atheistmerchandise #atheistapparel #atheiststyle #atheistcommunity #atheistlife #anti religion #skepticism #skeptical #nonbeliever #anti theism #exmormon #ex christian #ex fundie

[principiumindividuationis777]

Why Pascal Is (Still) Right

Blaise Pascal's wager might, at first glance, appear to have direct relevance only to a culture within the Abrahamic tradition, which much of the West, since the late 20th century, no longer is, in practice.

However, his wager runs deeper, into existentialist territory not yet tread in Pascal's more rationalist era. Consider: It remains true that we are unsure of our own senses, the senses of others (e.g. their scientific studies), our own memories, the memories of others (e.g. scientists) and so forth, and even if a system of empirical observations were shown correct a priori (which would be paradoxical), it still would not explain anything about the purpose of human existence.

That is where faith must enter the picture. We are now exposed to many religions, some of which do not believe in Heaven or Hell as such, yet all of them rely, avowedly so, on non-rational trust in something or in someone.

What, then, is the meaning of faith, for the purposes of theology? Faith is finding a purpose that is absolute, transcending human opinion or inclination, for if it depended on these, it would be contradictory at the outset, and accepting this purpose without rational proofs or supporting empirical evidence, because all such evidence can, regardless, be doubted (and that includes science).

Without faith, one is a Pyrrhonist, a complete metaphysical skeptic, yet also not one, because one could not positively assert Pyrrhonism as "true" without contradicting it. A sense of utter purposelessness, which ultimately translates to a lack of a coherent self, might be understood as, in essence, a mental state of Hell.

Thus, faith is an existential necessity, even before one develops clearer views on the afterlife (if there is one). I cannot give you a reason, per se, to believe in any particular religion, because as a fideist, I frankly admit I have no rational or empirical evidence for my faith (though as a sort of skeptic with faith, I question all rational and empirical evidence for any proposition whatsoever), but I can say that it is as necessary for mental health in this world as it could possibly be, conceivably, for salvation in the next.

This is not to say that religion cannot be misused by hypocrites, because any idea can be misused. Eugenicists have always twisted science to their grandiose liking, for instance, and many bad people have abused parental and other family authority, but that does not mean that, practically speaking, we could live with the total abolition of science or of family. Neither can we be mentally healthy in the complete absence of religion.

Like it or not, an era with history's worst mental health crisis also being the era of the least religious faith is not coincidental. Anomie has bitter consequences.

#theology #philosophy #theism #fideism #Blaise Pascal #existentialism #skepticism #Pyrrhonism #religion #mental health #identity #Pascal's Wager #religious agnostic #anomie

[sebthedreamsmith]

Magic and Contradiction

Thinking over various models of magic, and comparing them to models of science… I feel like a strong practice requires exercise in contradiction

There will never be empirical evidence for the efficacy of spells or action at a distance. There’s been enough attempts and studies to show this by now. But magic isn’t *about* that I feel. Magic as Phenomenology, that requires an esoteric understanding of Real and Unreal at the exact same time, and the ability to play with paradigms and experiences of reality; is how I’m starting to see it

You can’t cast fireball in real life, and you can’t cure diseases or ward from dangers. But also, these practices can be real and tangible and based on forces in the cosmos, that very few people can agree on. And things can Exist and Not Exist and Be Real and be Unreal in many combinations and permutations that result in the many practices we see today. And while few May exactly agree on where to draw the lines, I feel like my Practice is based on exploring the edges of these modalities and where how something can not exist empirically but also, phenomenologically, be fully and wholly Real.

How do others feel about this brief analysis? Any thoughts from any other practitioners, from Skeptics to Hard-Theists?

#magic #occult #witchcraft #occultism #my writing #theism #skepticism #magical models #energy work #animism #psychology #witchblr

[tmarshconnors]

"Atheism is a strange thing; even the devil never fell into that vice."

Charles Spurgeon was an English Particular Baptist preacher.

Born: 19 June 1834, Kelvedon Died: 31 January 1892, Menton, France

#Atheism #Religion #Belief #Faith #Philosophy #Devil #Vice #Strange #Theism #Agnosticism #Deity #Supernatural #Morality #Skepticism #Existence #quoteoftheday #today on tumblr #Charles Spurgeon #Spurgeon #Baptist #Preacher #Sermon #Christianity #Evangelism #Theology #Church #Gospel #Inspirational #Victorian era #London

[mathsandcomedydotcom]

Is Inspiring Philosophy a Secret Inerrantist?

In this video, I critique a short video in which Michael Jones is asked what his view of Biblical inerrancy is. Video 1: This is the video that I am critiquing. It is 1:02 in length. Video 2: This is my video critiquing Video 1. I could not get my screen to record the audio from Video 1. However, Michael Jones’s dialogue is to be found in the transcript. Figure 1: I made this Paulogia-style…

View On WordPress

#atheism #belief #classics #counterApologetics #latin #religion #skepticism #theism #theology #inspiringPhilosophy #scepticism #Video #YouTube

[prismatic-bell]

You know something I think gets forgotten a lot when people call religion stupid or pointless is that religion is a major indicator of cultural context.

Like. I watched this video on the Geographics YouTube the other day. I forget the title of it but it was about this lake in Cameroon, and opened with discussion of how local ancient shamanistic religion said death would come to anyone who settled on the lake because it would anger a vengeful lake spirit.

Haha, those dumb primitive Africans—oh wait. Wait, what’s that? You mean in the present day a town was built there after the local religion started to fade, and one day people from upwind showed up there and EVERYONE WAS DEAD?

Yeah, so it turns out this lake is on top of an old volcanic vent that leaches carbon dioxide into the water, and the lower layers of water absorb it until they can’t take anymore, and then any little thing disturbing those layers can cause a major outgassing of carbon dioxide, which is heavier than oxygen and so displaces all of it in a given area. Those in the immediate area? Yeah, they’re gonna die. Some of those who were up on the cliffs, in the upwind town, suffered headaches and nausea but were otherwise okay, but in the town itself over a thousand people died.

The concept of such a thing was so unheard of when this disaster happened that only one scientist had proposed it as a possibility in general, like a year before this happened, and most other scientists were skeptical.

So if you don’t know anything about carbon dioxide or volcanic vents, but you know that fucking with this water can kill you and everyone you love, what do YOU come up with? Because the way I see it, ancient Cameroonian shamans got it more correct than science for a very long time.

There’s more to be learned from religion than you can imagine if you just shut it down and dismiss it. Over a thousand people in Cameroon would tell you that, if they still could.

And the survivors? They’re still living there because someone who LISTENED TO THE FUCKING STORY went “okay, what’s wrong with the water?” and figured it out and found a way to safely vent the gas from the lake so the area is safely habitable now. Anti-theism didn’t save them. Ancient religion, considered and married to modern science, did.

[unbidden-yidden]

Personal question you don’t have to answer: I saw in the tags of that now-paganism post you talked about not believing in other gods but you do believe in other supernatural beings such as sheydim, and then you talked about a “Her” reaching out to you and Her not being who you originally thought.

Were you reached out to by a sheyd?

Nope!

When I originally (and reluctantly) began to dip my toes back into theism, I was very much a pagan and so my initial thought/understanding after some research was Hestia. And honestly? I was very fine with that, because Hestia has a lot more of an interesting mythology than you might think at first blush.

Initially the thing I was "asked" (nudged? idk) to do, was to cover my hair. I brushed that off for a couple years until it became extremely obvious that this was what I was being spiritually called to do. At that point I started searching out reasons and who that might be coming from, which led me to Hestia. So I began to do research to find a good reason why this was a bad idea, and eventually (if skeptically) concluded that it was entirely harmless and up to me if I wanted to connect. So I thought what the hell, why not. I covered my hair and looked up more information and had a little altar and left small hearth offerings for about two years. In that time though, unfortunately there was no real movement, no progress, no additional contact, nothing. During that time, I began to get increasingly more interested in Judaism - academically, of course - and had a much harder time focusing on any pagan path. Instead, I found myself powerfully and inexplicably drawn to Judaism despite my denial and all protestations to the contrary.

To cut a long saga short, after a couple years of radio silence, I realized I must have been wrong about the identity of the source of that nudge, and it was only once I learned about the Shechinah being feminine that it all made sense. The feminine energy I was reading was not coming from a goddess per se, but rather the one and only G-d who is effectively every gender and no gender, but whose earthly presence is typically understood in feminine terms.

And you know what? Guess around what time it was that I started feeling the pull to cover my hair? It was shortly after I became officially engaged to my now-spouse and we were living together in what was in practice (if not by law) a marriage.

When I finally admitted where I was at with things and reached out to Hashem, I experienced an immediate and powerful connection that drastically outstripped any spiritual experience I'd had before. I could only conclude from that experience that Hashem was real like nothing else I'd ever tried to build a connection with, and I felt compelled to connect as deeply with Her as was possible. My path was laid out for me.

As for the sheydim or other possible non-human beings... look I wouldn't say I for sure *believe* in them so much as I don't feel like I have enough information to rule it out. The Talmud and mystical rabbinic writings treat them as being very real, and I'm inclined not to assume that I'm smarter or wiser than all of the Tannaim, Amoraim, Sages, and great rabbis who did believe in them. However, I've never directly experienced them myself. Other gods I don't have a problem ruling out, at least insofar as it matters to me. If they exist, they aren't my problem. I respect other people's connections to the Divine as valid and real for them, in the same way I would like other people to respect and validate (for me) my connection to G-d, which is through the lens of Judaism. Essentially, I believe that G-d is G-d, that G-d wants a relationship with all people, and will speak to us in the "voice" that we are most likely to hear. For me that voice is the still small echo from Sinai. For you it might be something else. G-d is infinite and we each glimpse the smallest fraction of that divinity in our travels through life and spirituality.

[paganposting]

is there such thing as atheistic paganism? i’m not religious, mildly antitheist actually. but i feel connected to nature and would be interested in some sort of spirituality surrounding that.. i’m a skeptic if that’s the word for it. so atheistic nature-centric spirituality would probably be better suited for me than a religion.

ok im going to answer this in parts

1) there isn't really a term "atheistic paganism". the word pagan (modernly) refers to worshipping multiple deities, But

2) there is an extremely large community for what you're describing. non theistic witches, animists, pantheists etc- are very common.

Im not really one to gatekeep, so if you feel like calling yourself pagan while not believing in deities i personally wouldn't mind, and most pagans probably wouldn't either. Earth based religions are generally pretty welcoming, and i personally know many people who think of deities as metaphors and worship them that way. You dont need any belief in deities to worship the earth or practice earth based magic.

Now the part that you wont like- being "anti-theist" will make becoming part of a pagan community very very difficult. if you at any point shame people or imply that we are somehow less intelligent than you for believing in deities, you will be pretty unwelcome. i only say this because we see it all the time as theistic pagans. people constantly belittle us and our religious beliefs, and i struggle to imagine how someone who is self proclaiming anti-theism would treat us. i dont know if you're familiar with the toxicity of the anti-theist community and I don't mean to burden you with assumptions based on others, but i felt it was important to note.

This is your journey and your research to do, and i hope you find a path that fits your beliefs. 💕

#answered

[religion-is-a-mental-illness]

I was recently reminded of a line from God's Not Dead 2: "Atheism doesn't take away the pain, it just takes away the hope." What would you say if you were told this?

I agree, in a way.

The problem is that the "hope" theism gives you is a false hope, akin to the old trope of your sick dog being sent to live on a farm upstate. It's a lie that functions as a placebo.

So, I'd frame it as "atheism doesn't take away the pain, it takes away the false hope and gives you the reality and truth."

"Hope" for absurd and ridiculous magic helps nobody.

I can have hope that humanity will continue on its trajectory of improving life, reducing poverty, etc, as well as other problems that we've only just discovered or don't even know about yet. Particularly as religion falls away. By every measure, we're better off now than we were 500, 100 or even 50 years ago. We did that, not some imaginary space elf.

But considering that this trajectory has been underway since well before I or anyone I know was born, it's narcissistic to think that I am necessary for it to continue.

Let's not forget either that the "hope" a Xian or Muslim has is for the destruction of the world, the obliteration of all life, and the eternal torture and suffering of everyone they don't like, the heathens/kuffar, while living infinitely as worship-slaves to their heavenly slave-master in celestial North Korea. Believers often accuse non-believers of nihilism, and yet are the ones who insist that they're "nothing without god,” that they are "in the world but not of the world" (i.e. they don’t belong here), and that life in this realm has no meaning except as fodder for their monster-god's ego.

The "hope" they have is for themselves, not for the world, or for our or any other species. They hope for death, they hope for an apocalypse, they hope for the annihilation of everything tangible and real, and to be whisked away from this dirty little life to an imaginary world in the clouds full of people who are as astonishingly awful as they are.

The hope I have is modest. It's grounded in reality, and recognizes that there is hard work and difficult decisions involved. Hopefully, where nobody gets set on fire.

“Life” is a synonym of “change.” Believers want to think that there will come a point where they’re whisked away to some eternal perfection, devoid of change. This is anti-life. They don’t want to live forever, they want to exist forever.

My hope is uncertain. It's for the imperfection of humanity, but it could go either way. There’s no magic wand, no trite easy answers, not even a stopping point. We are never done improving, discovering, learning.

If a believer ever says this to you, ask them to be specific about what it is they "hope" for. When they give you platitudes, probe for the details. They'll soon show you who they really are.

So yes, it's probably accurate, in a simplistic way that requires disregarding the detail and the consequences, and therefore completely on-brand for the childish shallowness of theistic belief.

As usual, we just disagree on whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. Me, I think living in a fog of delusional magical thinking, denial of reality and abject disregard for all existence is a bad thing. I'm a weirdo, though.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life." -- George Bernard Shaw

#ask #hope #christianity #islam #god's not dead #apocalypse cult #apocalypse #judgment day #judgement day #end of the world #end times #end of days #religion #faith #faith is not a virtue #faith is delusion #religion is a mental illness

[demoisverysexy]

I am curious to know if there is a good argument in favor of religion as a concept. Not arguments in favor of any specific religion, but in the idea that spirituality and religious belief are at worst neutral and at best good. This is not the same as arguing that specific institutions are good or bad, but it is to argue that religious belief/spirituality are no worse than secularism, rationalism, skepticism, etc.

I see a lot of anti-theism/smug reddit atheism on the left and it concerns me sometimes with how alienating it is, and how reactionary I feel it is.

#religion #theology #leftism

[drastrochris]

"Skeptical theism" is just "nuh-uh!" dressed up with fancy words.

#face god #walk backwards #all that jazz #I feel insulted to have to learn stupid shit against my will

[automatismoateo]

Calling all atheists agnostics and skeptics in the Las Vegas Nevada area via /r/atheism

Calling all atheists, agnostics, and skeptics in the Las Vegas, Nevada area Firstly please excuse a post that will be relevant to relatively few of the 2.8 million members of this sub. Secondly if you happen to be living in the Las Vegas, Nevada area and are meeting other like minded atheists, agnostics, and skeptics - and occasionally those who are just curious - I'm here to tell you about our local meetup group Las Vegas Atheists. The web page is found at: https://www.meetup.com/atheists-30/ where you can read all about it and sign up for events. All our events are free unless it is at a venue and event with a fee (like mini-golf or a comedy show). We have a monthly weekend afternoon discussion meeting in a private room hosted by one of the local small "casinos" (basically a bar). Food and beverages are available if you want. These meetings usually have a discussion topic and are semi organized to ensure everyone gets to speak in a respectful forum, but nothing super formal. There is sometimes a further social meeting afterwards for those that want to chat. We also almost always have a weekly weekend meeting around a meal - either breakfast or lunch. Attendance is strictly by RSVP since reservations are made. The location varies from West, to South, and sometimes East sides of the Strip. We are open to suggestions for suitable venues and areas of the Las Vegas valley. Once a month there is an evening happy hour meeting, RSVP preferred but it is in a bar with food and we take over as many tables as necessary so it's pretty informal. There is also a month game night, occasional karaoke and other events on an ad-hoc basis. Our meal based meetups are frequently fully booked with 10-12 people, our discussion group has 10 to 20 attendees, and we are interested in growing our group and finding new activities and ways to engage the community. All are welcome to events except if you just want to show up and proselytize to us about your favorite mythical sky fairy. But if you've just left theism, close to leaving, or heading that way that's a different matter. Note for those looking for a god-free "church-like" experience there is a separate Sunday Assembly group in the area - they will also be advertising their meetings to our group. Thirdly feel free to reach out to me with a DM if you have questions, or maybe I'll meet you at one of our future meetings. Thanks for your attention and have a great weekend! Submitted January 20, 2024 at 08:05AM by O1O1O1O (From Reddit https://ift.tt/NOZ4dYh)

#reddit