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pikahlua · 1 year

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Is it just me or the flashback scenes bakugo had before his sacrifice didn't look good unlike the manga where other scenes were also included besides the sludge incident. I think this episode sucks very much compared to the other episodes.

That's just, like, your opinion, man. And to be clear, you're not alone in feeling that way, but I just happen to disagree. I loved this episode. I can also see why someone else might not have loved it. To each their own.

I watch some reaction channels, and a lot of anime-only viewers seem to have been blown away by this episode. Clearly they're getting what they needed to out of this episode, and that's basically the anime's job. So I'd call that a successful episode.

To compare the anime 1-for-1 to the manga is always a losing battle, because when an anime follows the manga too closely it adds absolutely nothing to justify why the manga needed an anime in the first place. And when an anime strays too far from the manga, die-hard manga fans will be upset. It's a thin line to walk. But it is always a mistake to compare the anime's art style to the manga's, because the manga will always win every time (at least it SHOULD). Manga is still-frame art. It's meant to be viewed at your own pace. Each panel is going to have more detail than you would ever see in an anime episode, because animation does not lend itself to lots of super detailed frames (at least not without a giant team and budget). Additionally, each animator will have their own art style they use to try to capture what they can from the manga but ALSO translate the images from the manga into an anime format. There are lots of considerations there, and some priorities will trump others when it comes down to what's possible for the animation team to accomplish.

That said, the correct things to scrutinize would be what the anime brings to the table, namely music, pacing, voice acting, editing, and animation. I thought there was some spectacular animation this episode, and the anime added some things I thought really helped clarify the action of the episode as well as drive the emotions home. From the way everyone else was reacting before I saw the episode, I was coming in with some low expectations, so I was very surprised by what a solid episode it turned out to be. If I were to criticize anything, it would probably be that I would want a little more physical impact shown when Katsuki is hit (although I do also see why they played it the way they did, so while I may have done it differently I'm not upset by what we got). Additionally, some of the still images in the rescue sequence (such as some of the flashbacks like you said) were either missing or shown too quickly to have the same impact. That said, none of these changes ruined the tone of the episode. We only can feel upset about these things because we have read the manga before this, but any anime-only viewer will not have missed anything major. They wouldn't have been able to linger on those moments anyways by virtue of this being anime rather than manga. No, I think the pacing of the rescue sequence was correct for the anime medium, even if some things I liked in the manga had to be cut to make it happen. That's how translation from one medium to another ultimately has to work.

All things considered, despite its flaws, this episode was a banger for me.

#anime only friendly #ask pika #anon ask #katsuki bakugou #meta

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lilygrants · 2 years

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Yu Yu Hakusho 30 Day Challenge Day 18: Hardest Hit

... so I stopped doing this challenge about... six years ago? But the nostalgia bug bit me and here we are.

This is not it, but it sure is a favorite of mine. Keiko is so much cooler in the manga, she just... has about 90% less screentime l-lol.

How do you define “hardest hit?”

Is it the most painful? The most consequential? The most epic?

How about the most lethal?

Let’s talk about Hiei.

You can’t really even call this a fight. Hiei and Zeru talk some trash to each other, Zeru gets off one attack, and Hiei feints, then shrugs it off like it’s nothing.

Only he was lying.

We don’t find this out until after the fight, when Kurama gets his internal monologue on, but Hiei was outmatched against Zeru. He was forced to do the equivalent of swatting a fly with a blowtorch because the blowtorch was all he had within reach. Zeru was built up as Just That Damn Good, and while Kuwabara’s interpretation of this moment was “Ha, guess not,” Kurama, who knows Hiei very well, realizes the truth.

Our analogy of the blowtorch and the fly doesn’t tell the whole story. Hiei basically had to set himself on fire with the blowtorch in order to kill the fly, who also had a blowtorch that he could use without burning himself. And Hiei is also a fly.

This is the limitation of analogies, people.

Another reason this is the hardest hit is because it rebounded back on Hiei himself. Both Genkai and Kurama are worried about the damage he did to himself with this stunt, and it’s a bit of a panic moment when they realize he played his trump card so early. From that perspective, him getting healed by Ruka’s kekkai is kind of a cop-out, but Hiei’s subsequent badassery is so much fun to watch that absolutely no one minds.

The set-up for this moment is kind of amazing, too, in that there’s hardly any at all. We don’t even find out that Hiei is a fire demon until this moment-- he only used his sword and his eye powers before this. Thematically, it makes perfect sense, however, with his sister being an ice demon.

There’s also the way we’re trained to, like Kuwabara, immediately accept this moment at face value. This is only Hiei’s fifth fight in the manga, following Yusuke, Seiryu, the army of lame half-breed demons, and Tarukane’s mansion staff. Yusuke beat him on a lucky shot, which he was a little bitter about in the beginning, while the half-breeds were all cleared off-panel and Tarukane’s minions were nothing. The only boss fight he won before this was Seiryu, so Seiryu is who we compare Zeru to.

And at first glance, the fights are very similar, particularly in the anime. Hiei talks some shit, feints, then his opponent dies.

As a quick aside, YuYu, like any shonen fighting manga adapted into anime, loves its padding-- and it needs more than most, since two volumes’ worth of manga chapters were left out. YuYu avoids whole filler storylines (the last-arc tournament fights probably mostly happened in the manga, just offscreen), but the easiest ways to add some runtime to this cash cow are 1) Give Keiko and Shizuru some introspection, 2) Give Botan and/or Koenma & Jorge some slapstick, and 3) Have Hiei *not* win a fight on the first move.

Especially in the manga, where Hiei took out Seiryu instantly, sixteen cuts on the first exchange, this seems like more of the same. Hiei’s a badass. His fights would be anticlimactic if they weren’t so cool, just because they’re OVER so quickly.

So the fact that he pays the price for this one moment of badassitude is kind of amazing, and it serves to make his subsequent mastery of this technique all the more powerful.

#yu yu hakusho #yu yu hakusho 30 day challenge #hiei #yyh hiei #yyh

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heaven-s-black-box · 5 months

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I need him- Mikayuu

Return to File

Recovery date: May 5th, 2020

Description: Hanahaki AU

Notes: This is an entry from the Mikayuu 2020 bingo records. Click here for the next entry.

Word count: 761

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There was a reason the hanahaki disease was only a legend, to be afflicted with the disease you needed to be completely in love with the person. It had to be the purest form of love. This fact was unknown though so people believed that it simply didn’t exist. After all, this form of love was so rare that there were under one hundred cases of the disease. Doctors always tried to explain away the deaths, but there were still those who knew the truth. Those people spread the rumors, and thus the legend of the hanahaki disease was born.

Growing up, Yuu had been a fan of manga, more specifically romance manga. Despite being quite cynical, he still had a little hope that he could find love. The other orphans pretended not to notice when their manga vanished for a day or so. In fact for christmas, they left him an anonymous gift of a short manga series. He didn’t know who sent it, so he didn’t know who knew. He just accepted it and nothing was said on the matter.

This series had a male protagonist who was in love with his neighbor. It was your usual highschool romance with the addition of the hanahaki disease. Unlike most hanahaki stories, the boy had it. The final chapter was the girl going through his room after the disease killed him, and finding a confession letter. The last panel was her reaching up and touching a scar on her neck. It turned out that she had had the disease in middle school and had gotten the surgery to end it. He had let the disease kill him, unwilling to let his love for her go.

A hypothetical conversation with Mika came from this ending. What would you do if you had the disease? Mika said he’d confess to whoever it was, if they didn’t return his feelings he’d get the surgery. Yuu brought up what happened to the girl as a possible scenario. Mika said if it was really meant to be, he was sure his feelings would return. After all, true love trumps all. Yuu’s response was a little more cynical, he’d just get the surgery. The disease was born of unrequited love, what was the point of going through rejection. In response, Mika pointed out that the person only had to think it was unrequited.

Now, leaning over the toilet bowl in the Shinoa squad dorms, he hoped Mika was right. He continued to spit out flower petals and blood. Maybe Mika was right, maybe he just had to confess and it would all go away. Just like those manga. Either way, he didn’t think he’d be able to get the surgery.

“Yuu,” he heard Yoichi from the other side of the door, “are you okay? You’ve been there for awhile.”

“I’m-” he was cut off by a fit of coughs.

“Yuu?” He heard the door knob turn.

“No don-” Too late.

Standing in the open door way was Yoichi, and behind him was the rest of the squad. How long had he been in here that the whole squad was worried? He looked at them in terror for a few seconds before he turned back and coughed up more petals. Shinoa must have pushed through because he saw her kneel next to him and start patting his back. He heard footsteps leave then come back and Kimizuki offered him a cup of water. His coughing began to subside and he sat back. Mitsuba leaned over him to look into the toilet.

“Red spider lilies.”

“Huh?” Yuu asked, wiping the forming tears from his eyes.

“You’re coughing up red spider lilies… They represent a final goodbye.”

Everyone fell silent. They were crammed into the small bathroom, Kimizuki was leaning against the sink, Yuu was sitting in front of the toilet with Shinoa and Yoichi on either side, and Mitsuba was behind him. None of them knew what to do. What does one do when a supposide legend comes to life? Dealing with an apocalypse was one thing. Fighting with weapons that had demons trapped inside them? Just another day for them. Finding out that one of your teammates is a seraph? A little weird but eh. This was crazy though.

“I need to see Mika,” Yuu finally broke the silence. He didn’t have a plan yet, but he figured he’d just confess. If it worked in the mangas, it should work here, right? Either way, he hopped that Mika was right, and Yuu only thought his love was unrequited.

#researcher s's recovery #seraph of the end #owari no seraph #mikayuu bingo 2020 #mikayuu #yuichiro hyakuya #shinoa squad #shinoa hiiragi #shiho kimizuki #yoichi saotome #mitsuba sangu #fluff #oneshot #ons oneshot

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uldelico · 9 months

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トランプ　『TRUMP』　Manga Chapter #05 “Baptism”

Author: Kenichi Suemitsu

Artist: Hamaguri

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psychewritesbs · 3 years

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Is Megumi done dying to win?

Is Gojo the strongest?

This question came up on Instagram earlier today, and I mentioned that I was starting to feel like Gojo is not as infallible as we might have been led to believe. I added that in a battle between Gojo and a Megumi who has stepped into his potential, my money is on Megumi.

The way I see it, the only CT that can rival a limitless CT, is a CT of endless darkness--like Megumi’s shadow realm.

Of course, I’m just speculating about Megumi’s shadow realm being one of endless darkness.

But we do know that Gojo shared with Megumi that the 10 shadows CT has rivaled limitless in the past in chapter 117. Thus implying Megumi has the same potential.

But what struck me were the responses I got from others who still see Megumi as not having grown at all:

“Honestly same but Megumi doesn't even hesitate to throw his life away. It'll probably take him a lot of time to surpass Gojo (that is, if he doesn't kill himself).”

This type of comment about Megumi is not uncommon even though in chapter 109 Megumi literally tells us “even if I risk my life, I don’t plan on throwing it away”.

So all I can think is that people who think Megumi is still throwing his life away have either not read the Shibuya Arc or missed the nuances.

Meaning... during the Yasohachi bridge ordeal, when Megumi snapped, I wonder if he also realized that if he dies, he’s basically abandoning not just Tsumiki, but also Yuji and Nobara. It’s like the whole experience made him realize he’s more valuable alive than dead.

Gege shows us this new attitude and growth further when Megumi summons Mahoraga to kill Shigemo.

Ironically, Megumi is infamous for trying to summon Mahoraga every time he finds himself in a pinch. Megumi does it one too many times prior to the Shibuya Arc but is always somehow stopped before he goes through with the ritual.

Gojo even tells him that relying on Mahoraga as his trump card is what’s holding him back from getting stronger. Rightfully so.

But Megumi unleashing Mahoraga on Shigemo was actually not an act of desperation like in previous chapters, but rather a deliberate “F*CK YOU, even if I die, I’m going to win”.

Excuse my French.

Let me explain...

Megumi's overkill win over Shigemo

In other words, Megumi, just like he did when he manifested his DE back during the Yasohachi Bridge Arc, risked his life to win instead of dying to win.

By the time Shigemo gets to Megumi and injures him fatally, Megumi had already fought other enemies, he had exhausted his CE by using his DE while battling Dagon (an impressive feat as it is, and we already know it takes a huge toll on his body), AND he was also injured from his battle with Toji.

He was basically at his limit. This time, he really was at a point where he couldn’t run, he couldn’t fight, and he could probably barely defend himself.

The interesting part is that he hesitates to summon Mahoraga with Toji, who compared to Shigemo is a real beast.

And yet, at the same time, you can tell he’s probably still coming up with ideas of what else he could do instead of summoning Mahoraga.

With Shigemo, on the other hand, he probably realized that his only choice if he wanted to win was to summon Mahoraga.

Because that's just it. In summoning Mahoraga against Shigemo, Megumi was making a statement. Not only was Megumi punishing Shigemo (he doesn’t like bullies, remember?), he was also fighting to win, even if it meant risking his life.

And nothing says “there was no way I would have let you win and now you get to pay the consequences” more than Megumi’s smug smile in the panel below.

To be honest, I’ve always found Megumi unleashing Mahoraga on Shigemo very overkill. He clearly had enough left in him to summon Mahoraga, so I am assuming he could have summoned Kon, or Nue, or Rabbit Escape.

But no. Megumi went for the cruelest, most overkill, most sadistic form of punishing and getting back at Shigemo.

Mahoraga.

Had Sukuna not intervened, Mahoraga would have had Shigemo with his toast for breakfast.

It would take Megumi a LONG TIME to catch up to Gojo

Or would it?

With the Culling Games around the corner, and with the possible foreshadowing that Sukuna’s plans will make Megumi suffer, I shared how I believe Gege has beat Yuji’s ego to a pulp, but so far Megumi has been spared Gege’s cruelty.

As it’s been stated before, the learning curve of a Jujutsu Sorcerer is not a kind one. It usually takes for a JJS to have their backs against a wall for them to grow exponentially.

Above all, having read chapter 158, I am wondering just how willing Megumi would be to kill others for Tsumiki’s sake, and what that means for his mental health.

Would he come to enjoy it as much as he enjoyed punishing Shigemo?

I guess we’ll find out.

The Jujutsu Kaisen Project

Anyways, thanks so much for nerding out with me. I LOVE reading your comments and chatting about JJK theory, so don’t hesitate to leave a comment!

That being said, in order to write this analysis I just went through 26 JJK manga chapters to find these particular panels of Megumi highlighting his subtle change in perspective regarding relying on his “trump card”. The good news is that this allowed me to start cataloguing the manga chapters like the total organizational nerd that I am.

If, like me, it would help to read a quick synopsis of the chapter so that you can find what you’re looking for more efficiently, then the Jujutsu Kaisen Project might help you. It is a work in progress so just bear with me as I work my way through the manga in search for more juicy foreshadowing and details.

#jujutsu kaisen manga #jujutsu kaisen spoilers #god i love jujutsu kaisen #fushiguro megumi #megumi fushiguro #sukuna #ryomen sukuna #Shibuya incident arc #gojo #satoru gojo #gojo satoru #jjk theory #jujutsu kaisen project

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gofancyninjaworld · 2 years

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From webcomic to manga: Much ado about Golden Sperm

So, in the last several posts, I've compiled all the pages in which Golden Sperm (and Platinum Sperm too in the manga) appear.

Direct links

Golden Sperm in the webcomic, part 1

Golden Sperm in the webcomic, part 2

Golden Sperm in the manga, part 1

Golden Sperm in the manga, part 2

Golden Sperm in the manga, part 3

Platinum Sperm in the manga, part 1

Platinum Sperm in the manga, part 2

Platinum Sperm in the manga, part 3

Platinum Sperm in the manga, part 4

Platinum Sperm in the manga, part 5

I've put everything up so no one can come argue that I haven't fully considered the evidence.

By the numbers (counting double panels as single pages):

In the webcomic, Golden Sperm shows up for 16 pages.

In the manga, Golden Sperm appears on 26 pages. He then fuses with the rest of the Black Sperm to form Platinum sperm, who appears for a further 45 pages.

By the content:

So what does Golden Sperm do in the webcomic? He forms once Tatsumaki is distracted by the ugly unnamed brat being taken hostage, then knocks Tatsumaki around. Asks the heroes to line up to be killed, but is distracted and intimidated by King, who bluffs and runs away. Garou shows up, they fight in a blur over three pages and we find Golden Sperm dead in a pool of his own blood. That is it.

In the manga, Golden Sperm forms when the heroes are distracted by Vomited Fuhrer Ugly and Black Sperm is deeply offended by being used as food by the same monster. He beats up Vomited Fuhrer Ugly, and once Homeless Emperor takes over in punishing the monster (not a euphemism), turns his attention to the heroes, mocking and thrashing Superalloy Darkshine. He steps in to stop Atomic Samurai from killing Homeless Emperor with his newly-bequeathed sun blade, losing his right forearm in the process. Golden Sperm then prepares to kill the heroes, but is distracted by King. Rather than half-ass it, he decides to merge with the rest of Black Sperm and forms Platinum Sperm.

Platinum Sperm challenges King to do his worst and just as he's about to strike the hapless guy's head off, in comes a newly awakened Garou to bowl him -- and every other monster still standing -- over. He gets back up to find both Garou and Flashy Flash arguing and smacks them both. All three engage in a beautifully rendered high-speed battle, during which he offers Garou a team up to take down Flashy Flash before taunting, then defeating the hero himself when it becomes clear that Garou has no intention of cooperating. He and Garou then have an even higher speed battle before Garou casts him down to the ground and kills him very much on screen, in most spectacular manner.

Meta

The two versions build tension in different ways, with the webcomic using Black Sperm's increasingly desperate attempts to overwhelm Tatsumaki as the build up to Golden Sperm's appearance as his trump card. Once Golden Sperm shows up, he's actually dead in very short order. The monster has three memorable lines 'Let me pass through', 'All heroes other than Tatsumaki form a single line...' and 'I'll go serious on you Garou' (his last line).

The manga builds tension AFTER Golden Sperm shows up. Black Sperm is having a very bad time as his intelligence and coordination goes down the more split up he is. Once he gets the lucky break to literally recollect himself, he wastes no time forming Golden Sperm, who is a much more savvy actor than his webcomic antecedent. Sharp of tongue and sharper of fist, he makes short work of remaining heroic defiance. We watch Superalloy Darkshine lose all nerve and be defeated, Atomic's last desperate rush peter out, and the monster work quasi-harmoniously with the other cadre. In parallel with the stand off with King, the story cuts back to Garou, Bang, and the closing-in Vomited Fuhrer Ugly, all making it increasingly tense.

Rather than let King retreat, when the other cadre fail to move in on King, Golden Sperm decides to pull out his trump card and form Platinum Sperm, whose total confidence now mean he's only waiting to see what King can do, which makes things even more tense. Like the webcomic, the tension is broken by Garou, but rather than have a two page battle of blurred lines and impact marks that ends with a dead monster, the fight, the strategies used by the combatants, and the denouement are all carefully rendered, in colour where appropriate (yes, something else that's amazing is happening)

The monster's cruel and detailed insights on the psyches of Flashy Flash and Superalloy Darkshine, and how despite his hubris, he is never reckless, makes Platinum Sperm a most interesting adversary. Far too much for the heroes to handle, he's quite fitting as a severe challenge to a Garou just looking to get his bearings.

All this and dozens of people seriously, honestly howl that they feel cheated? Short-changed? Hard done by? Really? REALLY? Fuck... truly there's people who don't know they're born.

Ah well, I know people are entitled to their feelings. But damn, I'm quite at peace with not engaging them.

Sources

Webcomic chapters: https://cubari.moe/read/gist/JYHJU/ Chapters 80 - 82. Retrieved 19 February 2022. Translators uncredited unfortunately. Can anyone help me fill that in?

Manga chapters: https://cubari.moe/read/gist/OPM/ Chapters 148 -149, 151 - 152, 154 -156. Retrieved 19 February 2022 Translators -- Nitrote, Graywords (chapters 148-9, 151-2), and Lucci85 (chapters 154 - 156).

#OPM #manga #opm webcomic #meta #webcomic to manga #if fans were hoping to see more of Golden Sperm they got it in spades #both physically and psychologically #and Golden Sperm's further transformation is distinctive in his own right #this was a very clever and dangerous monster despite the ludicrous moniker #I'm glad that the Reddit complaints got me to have a look at the whole panolpy -- it's been very interesting to see #but I'm done listening to the whining about how they feel shortchanged

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thesoundofanicefall · 3 years

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Hostages

With the release of the new chapter we finally could have Shinya and Kureto back in main manga but not in a good situation as we then faced with this panel and what Saito mentioned about them being hostages.

So in order to analysis and giving theories about what this all hostage thing means I decided to write down a complete and special analysis/theory post about this case.

Before starting we need to clear one thing:

The plan for Shinya and Kureto to being hostages is the original plan to stay against the First progenitor OR is Saito's plan without Guren knowing anything about it?!

Let's start with the first option first.

So yep Saito clearly mentioned that Shinya and Kureto are hostages and kinda are being hold as ones because of their black demons, Byakkomaru and Raimeki,

those two black demons who were working along with Shikama doji and with what Shikama mentioned before he needs all the black demons together in order to reach his own goals and all and also it sounds like Shikama couldn't find the ones who can be his right hands that easily as he mentioned it before how much he tried hard to finally can find someone like Ashera

So in a very simple and easy consclusion the black demons ARE important to Shikama doji. Like very important to the point that he may can't reach to what he wants without even one of them like at all.

Therefore as easily as this the reason why Shinya and Kureto are already hostages because of their demons is this case actually.

And so what can they do to the hosts in order to stop the demons so they are hostages now?!

This case was answered to us long ago by Asuramaru.

According to what Asuramaru mentioned before if a demon's host dies without the demon can be able to possess its host fully before that, they will also disappear too (kinda means dying) that's why the demons are trying their bests to possess their hosts before they die. (but how can it be as Shinya already dead on Catastrophe but his demon is still alive?! This case needs its special analysis/theory post later so I won't start this case here too)

By all of these we can say that Saito hold them as hostages so if anything bad wanna happen he can use them against Shikama doji by threaten him to kill his black demons ones both which actually means killing both Shinya and Kureto.

But another chance is that maybe Saito knows some kind of curses or spells to can subdune those black demons both.

But is that all?! Shinya and Kureto being hostages is just because Saito wants to use them against Shikama doji or is also against Guren too?!

Thankful of Wrat19 novels specially volume 2 chapter 1, we found out how much Guren is a big part of Saito's plan in order to defeat Shikama doji.

The way Saito clearly mentioned that he waited for a complete 500 hundred years for Guren's birth and how Guren borned to can resist against the first shows us that Saito just won't give up on Guren this easily and won't let him go not till he would finish his work with him.

Even Shikama doji on chapter 84 called Guren as Saito's trump card in a mocking way but sure Saito had complete believe in how Guren would be able to seal him soon and he did too.

But sure then we saw how Saito betrayed Guren and wanted to kill him which Ferid interfered it nicely sounds like he was fully waiting for Guren's signal which showed us that this part of the plan was Guren's plan to stop Saito.

But was it really?! With what we saw in new chapter and how Saito stated that everything is still his plan

Then we can easily say no whatever that happened between him and Ferid and Guren was completely a part of his plan again to can reach to where he is now so this is clear that he was kind of manipulating Ferid and Guren like his puppets so well.

It sounds like Saito never planned to kill Guren on 84 but he knew that Ferid and Guren are working together and as he planned to meet Urd again he pre-planned everything again and made Guren and Ferid to think that they are above him but actually they weren't.

But now Guren is out of his hands.

Guren is too important to Saito and his future plans against the First and yet he doesn't want to work with him completely so why not having hostages against him so can forcefully make him to work with him specially when one of the hostages is Shinya Hiiragi who there's no need for us to discuss how much he is important to Guren and how he was the one who was being hold as a hostage against him all these past time that everytime Mahiru wanted to force Guren to do something he didn't want to do she was easily going to use him and telling him to do that for Shinya.

And so yeah as you can see now like this Saito would have two birds with one stone easily, the first one is too have two big and important hostages against the First and the second one is to also use those hostages against Guren who his presence and power is so needed and important for Saito's plan so he won't have any other options but to work with him whethere he likes it or not and also won't think about betraying Saito again too.

But sure there's also a kind of chance too that Guren willingly or not is working with Saito yet so he is aware of Shinya and Kureto being hostages now although he would never be agree with the idea of killing them so can harm the First but maybe as I mentioned before these are other methods like unknown spells or curses to subdune both Byakkomaru and Raimeki without killing the host off something we need to wait and see which one of the options will turn to reality at the end.

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chaothic-bisexual-yay · 2 years

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Call me Kitty!

Hi! You can call me Kitty! Tumblr works in mysterious ways, but you have come to my blog. So quick intro:

- I am a MINOR, so plz respect that.

- I am South Korean, and a biromantic asexual.

- I like Shadowhunters, The Pandava Quintet, Friday Night Funkin, BNHA, Mairimashita! Iruma-kun, MCU, TDP, lots of other fandoms

- DNI: TERFs, lgbt-phobes, racists, pedophiles, n*zi supporters, asian haters, incest shippers, Trump supporters, pro-lifers, NSFW blogs, many others, if you fall into any of these categories i will block you on sight

- I draw and color manga panels sometimes

But otherwise, I am generally open to friends! :D

#plz read before coming into my blog #pinned

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chalabrun · 3 years

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where danzo got his sharingan (theory)

When it comes to the matter of where exactly Danzo attained the infamous Sharingan that littered his artificial arm, it begs the question: just where did they come from? Or, more specifically, who was the Uchiha who provided Shin Uchiha's genetic basis? I hope to explore this and more in this meta.

A background: What we know

To begin, I think it goes without saying that Shin Uchiha was the one who provided Danzo with his arm graft. Now, something I think can be reliably disproven is the fact that the Sharingan on Danzo's arm weren't harvested from the victims of the Uchiha Clan Massacre. Instead, through Uchiha genetic material, the Sharingan there were from a single genetic source.

Naruto Gaiden ch. 700+7, Sasuke confirms Shin as the source of Danzo's grafted, Sharingan-riddled arm.

Shin, with his missing right arm that corresponds exactly with the one Danzo had.

While perhaps it was popular to theorize that the Sharingan on Danzo's arm were harvested from the victims of the Uchiha Massacre, while it's already been proven false, one of the biggest holes in this theory is the fact that Danzo's right arm had been concealed and bandaged before the Uchiha Massacre even started, suggesting that Danzo had such procedures done before it was even suggested or brought to light. That, and Orochimaru had left Konoha before the Massacre had even occurred, at least a handful of years before the likes of Naruto or Sasuke were born (as the Massacre happened when Sasuke was roughly 8 years old). Or, it's strongly suggested they'd left before then.

Ch. 121, when Orochimaru confirmed their own defection from the village as more than a decade before Part 1.

But, as this would go on, this leads us into our next point.

A background: Danzo & Orochimaru

Orochimaru when they were a member of Root.

One of the most mysterious facets of the plot is Orochimaru and Danzo's working relationship, and how far it went. While a fairly shadowy time, there are a few concrete absolutes of what Orochimaru used their scientific prowess for in service to Danzo; or rather, what advances were made before Orochimaru's formal defection.

The first, and most notable, was taking Anko Mitarashi on as a student and using her in their experiments, prominently with the Curse Marks.

Orochimaru insinuating at Anko being their past student during the Forest of Death arc.

Anko struggling with her own Curse Mark we learn she received long before Sasuke ever attained his.

Orochimaru, after their revival in the Fourth War arc describing some of the mechanics of their Curse Mark.

One thing significant about the Curse Mark (or, the Curse Seal of Heaven, as it's formally called) is the fact that it had in a one-in-ten success rate, meaning that, while working under Danzo, Orochimaru likely had the jurisdiction to conduct such dubious, fatal experiments with forbidden jutsu despite the casualties incurred. Given Anko's age (24 in Part 1) would've been 13-14 at the time (give or a take a few years from the decade or more since Orochimaru's defection), it meant that Danzo likely authorized them so long as he benefited from the Sannin's experiments. Which leads us to the next point.

Danzo & Orochimaru: An interest in Hashirama

Now given the relational age of students/test subjects like Anko, this leads us to the next most notable. As many people know, the Root agent known as Yamato was also a test subject of Orochimaru's, largely in the twilight years when they became more and more unethical with their experiments. Now, again, here's something to consider:

Danzo, exhibiting signs of possessing Hashirama's cells during his battle with Sasuke.

Now, as we're given a timeframe for when exactly Orochimaru was a part of Root and doing illicit experiments for Danzo's benefit, this leads us to the next most prominent test subject we're introduced to in Part 2.

Yamato, around the time of his introduction to manga & Tenchi Bridge mission.

Ch. 291, where Orochimaru expounds on the experiments they did with the Shodai's cells.

As we learn on the Tenchi Bridge mission, Yamato possesses Hashirama's cells from experiments conducted by Orochimaru who came across (or was given access to?) Hashirama's body they extracted the First's cells from. Now, taking into account Yamato's age this early on in Part 2 (26), the math there would have to factor in Orochimaru's defection and the time since. So, 26 - 14 (adding an additional 4 to factor in the 3 year interlude period and year-long Part 1) = 12, making Yamato around the same age as Anko (give or take a few years) when Orochimaru was experimenting on their Curse Marks while being a part of Root. Especially since these experiments' test subjects are confirmed to have all been children.

Now, while this might seem like random pieces of information, this will become very important. As we can infer from this alone, Orochimaru had a dedicated interest and access to the bodies of the Founders...

Orochimaru using Edo Tensei for the first time during the Konoha Crush.

...as evidenced by their debut use of the Edo Tensei kinjutsu that demands genetic samples of the ones being summoned in order to work. Hell, the first time they utilized the Impure World Summoning kinjutsu was to wield Hashirama and Tobirama against Hiruzen.

Orochimaru: Their interest in the Uchiha

Obito/Tobi on location in the Sharingan lab secreted within his base of operations.

Now, something I think needs clarifying is this: at no point in the manga was it ever confirmed that Orochimaru ever had access to the Sharingan harvested after the Uchiha Massacre. The only one who had, however, was Obito Uchiha as Tobi. In fact, it's strongly insinuated that Danzo likely gave Obito unprecedented access to the victims' bodies and allowed him to harvest all the Sharingan he desired, as seen in the aftermath of Danzo's defeat where Tobi/Obito is shown in his lab with hundreds of Sharingan samples. And the only plausible way it would've been remotely possible was if those Sharingan were from the Massacre's victims.

The prelude to the Hokage Summit when Tobi outright mentions meeting Danzo before.

This doesn't mean that neither person never coveted the Sharingan's power, however. It simply debunks the notion that any of the Sharingan in Danzo's grafted arm were ever Sharingan belonging to the victims of the Uchiha Massacre. As seen with Shin, the Sharingan were artificially made in a lab from Uchiha genetic samples from an unknown donor (or, unwilling test subject, more likely).

As stated by Shin himself, he and the other Shin clones were cultivated by Orochimaru, not composed of stolen Sharingan from Massacre victims.

The Shin clones themselves from Gaiden, all shown with identical Mangekyo Sharingans like the original Shin.

And, of course, Orochimaru had an extremely well-documented covetousness for the Uchiha and their abilities, best evidenced in their interactions with Itachi and Sasuke Uchiha.

During Orochimaru's years in Akatsuki, they attempted to steal Itachi's body shortly after he joined, but lost their hand as a result.

Orochimaru during one of Sasuke's training sessions before they planned to take his body (mostly) voluntarily as their new host.

However, aside from this vested interest, it can't be overstated enough that Orochimaru is only ever canonly shown targeting living Uchiha, namely Itachi and Sasuke, both which resulted in failure. Regardless of how that interest manifested, what is canon is the fact that Orochimaru only got such power from two sources: the Sharingan they cultivated themself, and the Uchiha survivors they targeted, those being the Uchiha brothers.

Uchiha Shisui: The possible Uchiha donor?

Ao when he used his Byakugan at the Gokage Summit to confirm that Danzo was not only in possession of Shisui's eye, but that the chakra of his arm matched Shisui's as well.

Now, with the fact that Danzo has reliably proven to have possessed cultivated Sharingan from a single donor, by the looks of it, that donor would've been Uchiha Shisui. However, I doubt this is the case due to the fact that 1) it defies the time period that Orochimaru would've been in the village long enough to collect such samples to create Sharingan imbued in Shin and 2) Danzo is shown with his arm being sealed before he's stated to have ever stolen Shisui's eye for himself.

Danzo, unveiling his trump card at the start of his battle with Sasuke.

As we can see with this particular panel, a habit Danzo had fallen into was concealing his right, grafted arm and keeping them sealed.

Hiruzen and the Elders' Council deliberating the possibility of needing to eradicate the Uchiha.

As shown above, Danzo habitually kept his right arm concealed before the Uchiha Massacre even happened. In fact, just panels ago in the same flashback is when Shisui is shown with his right eye missing. In such a consideration, the time between Itachi and Shisui's conversation and Itachi paying witness to the Massacre's deliberation likely wasn't long at all. And certainly not long enough of a time for Danzo to have stolen Shisui's eye and used them as a base for his arm's Sharingan (especially since Danzo has no probable scientific knowhow of the level Orochimaru possessed who had become a missing-nin for years before this point). While his eye certainly is, another consideration to make is that Ao only is capable of recognizing Shisui's chakra that he encountered with his Byakugan before, while never noticing the other Sharingan or Hashirama's DNA (especially since those with Hashirama's cells can be sensed as having them).

Shisui during his conversation with Itachi just panels before Itachi would meet with Hiruzen and the Elders' Council.

Now, while it's been shown before in the manga that eye transplants can occur with just the right amount of medical knowledge and performed by the recipient (as shown with Madara and Izuna's eyes, and later with Obito transferring Itachi's eyes to Sasuke), it goes without saying that medical and scientific knowledge aren't always synonymous with each other. Much like how Tobirama excelled in the sciences while Hashirama was stated to be an expert with medical ninjutsu, or how that dynamic became true again between Orochimaru and Tsunade as the Sannin, Danzo being able to transfer Shisui's Sharingan for his right eye doesn't mean he possessed the scientific knowledge necessary to cultivate Sharingan from it, timeline disputes and narrow timeframes notwithstanding.

Therefore, I don't think that Shisui's Sharingan provided the basis for the Sharingan in Danzo's arm. There is, however, one last and likely possibility.

Uchiha Madara: The most likely Uchiha donor

Now, while this might seem incredibly farfetched, I have a lot of reason to believe that Madara was the genetic template for the Sharingan in Danzo's arm and Shin Uchiha's body. And I have reasons for this, too.

Madara is the most likely Uchiha, and the one who would've gone unnoticed if his body had been experimented on.

Madara at the moment of his death, not long before the end of the Third War, approximately.

When Madara admits to his own status as a "lost" Uchiha.

Now, given the reasons I've stated above, and the fact that Danzo/Orochimaru had access to or knew the locations of graves of the Founders (Hashirama & Tobirama), it gives me reason to believe that they also knew the location of Madara's corpse and were able to procure genetic samples from his body. Given the fact that he was pronounced dead by the shinobi world decades earlier, it leads me to believe that it's entirely likely Madara's body would be the least-risky Uchiha to experiment on that would fly under the radar of the Uchiha Clan who likely wouldn't have ever allowed the village access to their dead clansmen.

It's implied Orochimaru may have experimented on Madara's body before.

Black Zetsu explaining how he led Kabuto to Madara's corpse to begin with.

Admittedly, this page might seem enough to blow holes in my theory, but I think it's worth noting that 1) Kabuto was never aware of Orochimaru's experiments on Hashirama's body nor 2) that Yamato existed at all (especially when one factors that Kabuto would've been taken under Orochimaru's wing around the time these experiments had been going on at all). What's more, the manga itself does have contradictions of its own with previous plot points being undone or contradicted by later ones, or the story being established by the time the manga was nearing its end (such as the relevance and power of the Uzumaki clan not being noteworthy until the Fourth War).

Madara's body was experimented on once before by Tobirama.

One must also factor in that it wasn't the first time Madara's body had been experimented on to discover the Sharingan's secrets, setting a precedent.

Ch. 681, after Madara's first death.

Given the fact that Danzo had worked under the Second Hokage before, and because Danzo was likely the one who gave Orochimaru access to Tobirama's kinjutsu and cadaver, it also stands to reason that Tobirama's brutal pragmatism and dehumanizing regard of the Uchiha could have later influenced Danzo's absolutism with the Uchiha Massacre and passed on to Orochimaru (despite the fact that they turned out to be even more pragmatic and level-headed than Tobirama).

But, aside from this precedent of Madara's posthumous availability as a test subject of Uchiha-centric experiments, there's more.

Orochimaru & Kabuto reverse-engineered the theory of the Rinnegan's manifestation long before the Fourth War.

Ch. 559, after Madara's debut in the Fourth War.

As this page properly furnishes, something stood out to me: Orochimaru and Kabuto had experimented on the Rinnegan before. Or, more properly, the theory behind how they came into being. A common thread seems to be that older generations were aware of the Sage of Six Paths and the Rinnegan, and given the fact that it's unclear how Jiraiya attained this knowledge, it's probable Orochimaru may have been in the know as well as the Toad Sannin. With all this in mind, it's extremely likely that Orochimaru not only also knew about the Rinnegan, but began synthesizing theories as to how it would manifest in the first place.

Ch. 559

Given the fact that Orochimaru has found the extremely esoteric before, such as probably locating Ryuchi Cave, one of the legendary sage regions on their own (versus Jiraiya reverse-summoning himself due to affinity with the Toads), the idea of them finding Madara's cadaver and utilizing it in experiments is a likelihood as well.

Closing thoughts

So, while this theory went into a lot more than just what it says on the tin (such as Orochimaru's experiments with the Founders, debunking the Uchiha Massacre victims in Danzo's arm theory, etc.), I hope it was enlightening and possibly opened some eyes!

#danzo shimura #orochimaru #shisui uchiha #itachi uchiha #madara uchiha #my meta #antis kindly don't interact #this meta isn't for your vitriol kplsthx

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