#dk3 | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

minterim · 6 months

Text

i just finished filling out @janmisali's how many Super Mario games are there now survey! it was a ton of fun, i recommend giving it a shot to see how you think about murky video game taxonomy!! however my explanations of my methodology got a bit wordy, so much so that i couldn't submit my response LOL. so i'm putting them here instead :>

Page 4:

my (loose) criteria are: for pre- super mario brothers games in this bracket, all are non-canonical (to the extent that a mario canon exists), and only count as being non-canonical if mario is clearly in the game from the outset, whether that is clarified through the title, or other surrounding material (manual, flavourtext, widely accepted history for donkey kong, etc). the other condition there is that i have to be able to find evidence of mario's presence with very little effort.

if a game doesn't have mario in it at all (dk3 and so on), then it's not a mario game because the other ones barely are in the first place.

Page 5:

ok this is becoming slightly more complicated now. the game watch and game and watch games are minor spinoffs, they remain canonical in that they are adaptations of super mario bros for different devices. given that they are adaptations, they dont count as distinct entries in the super mario series.

ive decided that sports games and other games that mario appears in as the mascot are also extra-canonical -- i dont think mario, in the story of the mushroom kingdom such as it is, ever went on a big bar in space to play alleyway. ymmv. the principle holds for golf and tennis and whatnot, for the entries so far at the very least.

i think it makes sense for games that predate super mario bros 1 which feature franchise characters/world elements to be non-canonical as opposed to spin-offs; you can't spin off of something that doesn't exist yet, in my assessment. games taking place in the mushroom kingdom or featuring franchise characters doing things in contexts that make sense count as minor spinoffs, e.g. yume kojo doki doki panic and super mario bros special. NOT counting dk classics because they werent spinoffs initially, you cant retcon them into spinoffs. again, ymmv

Page 6:

ok. the allstars games and other such re-releases ARE mainline mario games, because when you boot them up you play a mainline mario game, but they are NOT distinct entries.

the -land games are spinoffs, wario is a mario character, and remains a part of the mushroom kingdom mythos up until warioware, which ill have to decide upon sooner rather than later.

dk for gameboy IS a mario spinoff, because the narrative has been change to 1. exist and 2. match (closely enough with) other mario games (bros 1 and odyssey, as far as i can tell).

dkc is NOT a mario game (he is not in it in any way afaik). i would classify it as a donkey kong game, in a way that i wouldnt any of the previous dk titles. this is the point at which donkey kong becomes separate ip from mario. they cross over still, but its two equivalent entities bumping into each other, as opposed to a smaller element of one's canon re-emerging.

the dr marios arent canon, that's a different guy. mario is not a doctor in the mushroom kingdom i know. maybe this is an alt-universe mario? who knows

the karts are also not canon. or rather, they are extra-canonical, in that those ARE the characters we're familiar with from the super mario series, but they arent playing their roles, theyre playing golf or go karts or whatever. its like actors hanging out behind the scenes in character

wario blast can be a canonical spinoff i guess. wario seems like the kind of guy who would throw bombs at people like that. bomberman is there somehow too

Page 7:

games that include mario (or his friends that havent established a specifically non-mario franchise of games, read: not donkey kong) as a mascot or the main player character count as mario games.

if the mario characters in the game are not acting in alignment with their behaviour in the mainline series* then the game is a non-canonical mario game.

this includes karts, picrosses, tetris attacks and so on. if the game is a single title with little-to-no follow-up, it is a minor spinoff, if it spawns a larger series or garners prestige in some other way, its a major one.

*i dont have a good definition for this. for now: a platformer starring mario as a player character with a plot set that typically involves fighting bowser and saving peach while in the mushroom kingdom. thats the distinction for now though it definitely doesnt hold for the later games. sorry 😐

Page 8:

ok, all of my previous points still carry over wrt sports and party games not being canonical. the sports ones are the "actors" who play the mario characters hanging out and playing tennis or whatever while in character. however the rules with party seem slightly different -- i maintain that theyre non-canonical to the main super mario series; mario getting along with boos and bowser and so on seems contradictory to the series' events. plus, the mario party world seems like a separate instance of the mario world regardless, so im placing them into a separate mode of canonicity: kids playing with action figures, or game pieces, or better yet, amiibos. no hint of continuity beyond the player and the friends they party with ^_^

i've elected to dub the wariowares as non-mario games. theres a simple reason for this: he's not in them as a character. the wario that runs around is pretty well removed from the wario that has menaced mario in the past, unlike the wario in wario land. theyre not necessarily *not* canonical, but i feel this wario is more likely to fit into the "actors playing golf" canon than the "nare-do-well of the mushroom kingdom" canon, if that makes sense.

the REAL rub for this round are the RPGs. i let super mario rpg fall into the spin-off category because i feel like that could feasibly be the "main" mario (the character from super mario bros). this could be equally true of paper mario, and mario + luigi super star saga mario. and these marios aren't necessarily contradictory! the mario games have a very malleable canon! that is, until mario + luigi: paper jam, which brings two of these marios face to face (note: havent played any of these games yet, heavily referencing the super mario wiki). given that luigi finds the paper mario characters in a book, this states pretty directly that paper mario is fictional within the main mario canon: paper mario is not the same man as super mario from super mario 64. now, does this retcon mean that all the prior paper mario games are fictional within mario canon? maybe. it could ALSO be that the paper mario stories really DID happen in the main mario universe, and we (as players) experienced those events through the interpretive lense of paper... but a good amount of gags/mechanics/etc rely on paper mario being made of paper. poetic license..?

i think im going to classify the paper marios as stories ABOUT the main mario WITHIN that continuity, kind of like star wars legends 'dubiously canonical' material. i think this places them as non-canonical within the structure ive built up here, which is unfortunate, because i liked the idea of all the rpgs being different perspective cameras on the same guy... oh well

^^ take the discourse about the rpgs with a grain of salt because, again, i have not played any of them and thus they may directly contradict my notions of canon. whoops!

PS. oh yeah i think i forgot to mention this in the last one: smash games arent mario games. they are games that have mario in them. but mario would not hit his brother luigi or his dear friend peach. and thus this version of mario cannot be the same one as in super mario bros.: the lost levels.

(same theory as the mario party action figures situation. except the kids that are playing with the action figures are now teens)

Page 9:

[n/a]

Page 10:

the sports ones (strikers, baseball) have started having narratives that can fit into the mainline canon, kinda. im choosing to include the baseball games - i reckon that baseball kingdom could be in there, thats fine. though ive chosen to exclude the strikers games, everyone's really angry and violent in those ones and that doesnt seem right to me

the clock and the calculator don't count because they aren't uh. games

also ive lost track of the distinction between major and minor spinoff. i had one but i don't remember what it was at this point

Page 11:

with the sports games i tend to err on the side of non-canonical, even if there is a narrative in which all characters behave more or less in character. because i find it hard to believe that wario or waluigi would follow the rules of tennis

also i dont think that a crossover with final fantasy really tracks, you know?

Page 12:

super mario maker isnt canon but super mario maker 2 is. because 2 actually has a story mode and 1 doesnt. i think

Page 13:

i think ive covered it all in my previous responses? my system broke down a little bit but i think ive been mostly consistent!

Page 14:

i think if they never got made theyre not games, and if they did get made but never came out they cant be considered mario games. because mario never appeared in them. because no one did because they never came out. i think my reasoning is failing here but i stand by excluding them

Page 15:

to try and sum my methodology up: it's only a mario game if mario, or a character from the mushroom kingdom, is the main character or mascot. a character cannot make a game a mario game by their presence if they are a version of the character that has defined their own game series completely disconnected from mario and the mushroom kingdom (donkey kong games and warioware games are considered disconnected in this manner and are not mario games, however, wario lands and original donkey kongs are). games in which a mario character is a minor character in an ensemble cast also aren't mario games.

if the characters that make the game a mario game are doing things that would contradict the characterisations from super mario platformer series* or are acting in a purely mascot capacity, the game IS still a mario game but is non-canonical (assuming its a game at all. looking at you clock and calculator). additionally, if the games take place in some kind of separate continuity (mario party, strikers, paper mario, etc) they are non-canonical, or if good and evil characters who would normally take the opportunity to try to apprehend each other are in proximity and do not (kart, tennis, golf, etc), i excluded them from canonicity. for the latter category, i liken the mario cast to a group of actors hanging out off the clock while remaining in character, in the same way actors in real life might act for a charity event. crossovers are also more than likely to preclude a given game from canonicity. i do not think mario, as he is in the mushroom kingdom, has met solid snake or sephiroth. also, i maintain that dr mario is a different man from mario. as he is still A mario, they remain mario games, but because he is not THE mario, they are non-canonical.

the distinction between major and minor spin-off is foggy in this taxonomy. mainly its based on popularity, proximity to the mainline, critical and audience reception, and vibes.

mainline super mario games are platformers in which mario progresses through levels in different worlds using powerups to save someone. they also have to be considered mainline to count. not a great definition but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

the iteration of a given mainline game that counts as a distinct iteration is the one i consider most Definitive. the factors that go into Definitiveness are these: earliest released version > plot that best fits with established canon (donkey kong gameboy) > version with most included game stuff.

my maxim for what counts as a mainline super mario game was: "if someone wanted to play through the super mario series one at a time, but not non-super mario games, what games would it make sense to include?" no idea if what ive ended up with here tracks with that but here we are

this was a fun little thought experiment!! thanks for putting this together, i learned a bunch about this weird little series

PS. that mario sweater maker game is incredible btw

#no idea if this makes any sense in hindsight. i also should probably have checked for consistency in my responses.#but i am tired now #i really do encourage giving this thing a look btw! plus video its a follow up to of course. both a great time :]

25 notes · View notes

snowflake-of-destruction · 11 months

Note

sk8 + anyone from the dk trio for the character ask game ?

Any of the dk3? ALL THE DK3!

1: sexuality headcanon

Ainosuke– Panromatic/Homosexual

Kojiro–Panromantic on a surface level where he romanticizes people and falls quickly but also everything fizzles quickly, so perhaps actually closer to demiromantic if he examines himself and his eternal devotion to one or two people more closely/Pansexual

Kaoru–Demiromantic/Homosexual

2: otp

Lovematchablossom?

But besides that

Ainsouke–loveblossom

Kojiro–matchablossom

Kaoru–loveblossom over matchablossom, sorry

OTP that doesn't involve either of the other two (whyyy?)

Ainosuke–Eden

Kojiro–Nothing really unless you count the cracky crossover ship of Kojiro/Kazuki Kurusu that lives in my brain

Kaoru–Mayhaps a small soft spot for Kaoru/Oka in my head

3: brotp

Stomps my feet in Lovematchablossom, but if we do not involve the other two

Ainosuke–Oka. Tadashi depending on my mood

Kojiro–Reki

Kaoru–Kaoru would count Carla, so I will too

4: notp

Tadaai. I love you Tadaai shippers, and I'll smooch you on the forehead and probably even write more Tadaai into things one day both for you and because I acknowledge the *everything* in canon but NOTP TADAAI

I can't think of notps for the other two

5: first headcanon that pops into my head

Ainosuke–I know I've shared this a hundred times, but I'll share it a hundred more: the mask he wears as Adam was a gift Kojiro sent him while he was in Italy

Kojiro–Former smoker. The only secret he kept (poorly) from Kaoru

Kaoru–Even though the more popular fanon, and one I've incorporated at times, is Kaoru with distant parents who are always gone, I really believe he had doting parents who were interested in everything he did while giving him "room to grow" and even championing his rebellions. His piercings when he was a teen? Parents supported him and went to bat for him when the school complained. That type of thing. Carla? If they couldn't help with the prototype, then they listened to all his ideas. His "clinginess" comes from having this constant influx of attention and support his whole young life and so not knowing what to do in moments he is alone now.

6: favorite line from this character

I'll come back to this later (unless I forget) because I know for Adam I want to do a whole monologue and I want to make sure I get it right. Same with Kaoru. I'm just not at home right now and so typing this in notes when I can and not looking things up. Kojiro I'll probably just go with "Right, Kaoru?" even though it's not so impressive out of context.

7: one way in which I relate to this character

Ainosuke–I too bounce between obvious former theater kid dramatic and reserved

Kojiro--All-loving chef

Kaoru–Desire for constant affection but nit wanting to ask for it and doubting it when it is given

8: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character

Ainosuke-I love Adam, love him, and I wouldn't change a thing…but a good few of his over the top moments, especially in the first race against Langa

Kojiro–Again criticizing the things I love most, but how obviously he pines, mostly for Kaoru, but also for Ainosuke as well as Kaoru. Watch episode 4 I think it was where he first talks about Adam. Obvious sad pining there too.

Kaoru–How easily he loses it to even a little goading

This question is always a bit difficult as I don't have a strong "secondhand embarrassment" reaction with fictional people, especially anime ones because they are supposed to be dramatized.

9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave?

All are problematic in their own way

#kaoru sakurayashiki #kojiro nanjo #ainosuke shindo #lovematchablossom #matchaloveblossom #loveblossom

7 notes · View notes