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fantastic-nonsense · 2 years

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You mentioned about your cass cain reddit post (read it all and loved it btw) that you knew even more behind the scenes dc drama than what made it into the post. If you’re comfortable with it and still remember, would you like to share some of the behind the scenes dc drama that didn’t make it into that post now? (Ofc just ignore/delete this ask if you’re not comfortable with it I was just curious XD)

Necessary context: this ask is referring to this write-up I did for r/HobbyDrama a little over a year ago, which I offhandedly mentioned to a couple of people awhile back was "9 pages in a Word doc and STILL left a bunch of stuff out."

Okay so most of the stuff I left out, I left out because it was more about Barbara or Steph and the larger situation around how DC handled the Batgirl mantle more generally than it was about Cass and the whole debacle that happened there. Since the post was already getting so long, I chose to just not talk about a lot of that for length purposes and to keep the write-up more focused on a) Cass as a character, b) editorial or creative decisions that actually impacted Cass specifically, and c) top-level issues, since the write-up was geared towards an audience who largely doesn't read comics. I also left a few things out because they're somewhat hearsay and/or "known to be true but technically unverifiable information," mostly for credibility reasons.

Largely, the thing you have to understand about DC's treatment of Cass is that there was a major power struggle at DC between those who wanted Barbara Gordon to become Batgirl again and those who wanted Cassandra Cain to remain Batgirl. The "Babs vs. Cass" fight and viewing Cass's treatment within the context of this massive internal push for Batgirl!Babs is the backdrop through which the majority of this industry drama needs to be understood, because otherwise a lot of the stuff that happened to Cass doesn't make much logical sense.

So, with that being said...here's a list of eight things I either cut entirely or barely mentioned that may not necessarily be directly related to Cass but are nonetheless relevant to the larger debacle of "DC's mishandling of the Batgirl mantle" that impacted Cass's character trajectory. General warning for the immense psychic damage you will inevitably experience if you read this and its length, because between the screenshots and quotes and explanations this ended up being much longer than I expected it to be.

Yvonne Craig: The first major thing that I chose to cut was a paragraph about Yvonne Craig, the actress who played Barbara Gordon in Batman '66, and the near hero-worship that a lot of (specifically middle-aged, white male) creatives, editors, and managers at DC had for her. Basically, the broad strokes of this issue is that due to their weird obsession with Yvonne Craig's Babs–which is probably due to them having childhood crushes they never got over–several men with power within DC (including Dan Didio himself) shared a sentiment that Barbara was the "one true Batgirl" and no one else but her should ever be Batgirl. Basically: if Barbara Gordon couldn't be Batgirl, Batgirl as a mantle wasn't worth using at all. This led a concentrated decade-long effort to put Babs back in the Batgirl cowl, which obviously influenced the various attempts to push Cass out of the role.

I chose to cut it for two reasons: it was more related to Babs and why there was such a coordinated effort to make Babs Batgirl again rather than Cass as a character unto herself, and it's largely "very well-respected and often-repeated hearsay, but still hearsay." The prevalence it had within the rank-and-file creatives at DC is suspect, but we know that several prominent creators, editors, and upper management shared that perspective (even if they largely don't talk about it on-record). We know this sentiment absolutely existed; Scott Peterson, for example, talked a bit about how "crazy he was for Yvonne Craig" in his interview about creating Cass. It's just not a particularly well-sourced discussion point and was more suited for a write-up on Babs than it was a write-up on Cass.

Batwoman's Costume Design: I barely mentioned Kate in the write-up and only in relation to how Cass's book was cancelled to make way for the theoretical Batwoman solo book that never happened, but there's actually a lot of really interesting industry drama behind Kate's creation. Specifically as it regards Batgirl...Kate's costume was originally meant for Barbara, per Alex Ross:

"The design I did was initially for the proposed idea of a new version of Batgirl, so it was intended to be another stab at bringing back Barbara Gordon, or having the new Batgirl be costumed as a tribute to her, maybe even with a red-haired wig." -Alex Ross, "Giving Batwoman Her Look"

Ross and Paul Dini had been planning to revive Babs as Batgirl for years, but Bat Office Head Editor Denny O'Neil was staunchly against it so it never happened:

"Paul Dini had this idea of putting Barbara Gordon in the Lazarus Pit to revive her…spine, I guess," Ross said. "At least, that's what he would've done in the television show had they continued doing more cartoons, and her spine was broken the way it was. I thought it was a great idea, and we pitched then-Batman editor Denny O'Neil with these drawings of that costume design.........and that went nowhere. Denny shot it down, because, according to him, everybody loves Barbara Gordon as Oracle and as a handicapped character. The theory was that DC didn't have enough handicapped characters, so they weren't going to do anything with Barbara as she was. And the design went into the drawer." -from "Giving Batwoman her Look"

When O'Neil retired in 2002, the floodgates opened and we started seeing a concentrated creative/editorial push to make Babs Batgirl again. Of course by that time Cass was already well-established, so Ross's design was later re-purposed for Kate Kane's Batwoman and the power struggle largely manifested in a gradual sidelining of Cass from major Bat events (starting with Hush, as I mentioned in the write-up) in an effort to pave the way for putting Babs back in the cowl. Which brings me to the next piece of industry drama I cut.

War Games: There's...a lot of industry drama behind both the conception and execution of War Games. Most of it isn't particularly relevant to this answer or the original write-up, but there are two things that are. One, the fact that Stephanie's death was mandated by editorial and everyone involved knew it was coming. This is what prompted Steph's temporary takeover of the Robin mantle. Depending on who you believe, either Robin writer Bill Willingham, Batgirl writer Dylan Horrocks, Detective Comics writer/Bat Office editor Andersen Gabrych, or Dan Didio himself suggested that Stephanie become Robin as a story trick for readers and a sort of narrative "consolation prize" in preparation for the fact that they were about to kill her:

“The whole way through it was planned purely as a trick to play on the readers, that we would fool them into thinking that the big event was that Stephanie Brown would become Robin but we knew all along it was a temporary thing, and she was then going to die at the end of this crossover story.” -Dylan Horrocks at Auckland Writers and Readers Fest in 2011

"I knew coming into the Robin series that Spoiler was doomed to die. And I wouldn’t have done that, but that was already locked in even before I came on Robin, so I had no point at which to say you shouldn’t do this. But, I did I have this hair-brained idea that, well, if she was going to die — she was such a frustrated character…I mean, everything she wanted out of life she pretty much didn’t get. So, can we give her one little reward before she dies and let her become Robin for awhile." -Bill Willingham for Word Balloon in 2012

"You know, me and Stephanie, we go way back. The story with Stephanie Brown goes, they came to me as Executive Editor with the "War Games" story, and said 'we're going to kill Stephanie Brown.' I knew Stephanie Brown for who she was, and said, 'I don't know, if this is going to be the big ending to your story it doesn't feel big enough at the time, because the character wasn't strong enough yet.' So I said, 'Why don't we make her Robin for a short period of time, build some interest in her, and then we kill her!'" -Dan Didio for Newsarama

Steph becoming the major collateral damage of the immediate post-O'Neil editorial era would later set the stage for why she was viewed as an acceptable compromise choice to become Batgirl during the Reborn era.

Two, the writer of Cass's solo at the time, Dylan Horrocks, was so discomforted and offended by the concept of the story (and particularly its treatment of Steph) that he deliberately kept Cass out of the event's "main action" as much as possible during her tie-in issues. This has been widely reported for years and while Horrocks himself rarely goes on record about it, he has made some comments that more-or-less confirm it:

Horrocks: "I'd write [Batgirl] very differently today....for me, it was...complicated. One day I'll write about the experience properly. The War Games event was deeply depressing." -Dylan Horrocks on Twitter in 2012/2013

Sidenote: War Games was actually the last straw for both Ed Brubaker and Horrocks; Brubaker was fed up with all the editorial mandates/executive meddling and Horrocks was frustrated by the Bat Office's misogynistic and grimdark story direction, so they both left right after (Brubaker for Marvel to write Bucky Barnes' resurrection and Horrocks for indie comics).

So why are Horrocks' writing choices relevant to DC's subsequent treatment of Cass? Well, as I stated in the original write-up, it heralded the beginning of a "there can be only one" era for female Bat characters. DC could handle the idea of several male Batfam members running around at the same time but apparently more than one female Bat at a time (regardless of moniker) was just too much for them. It was also the last major Bat event to feature Cass in any significant capacity until her post-reboot reintroduction. So while she was largely removed from the action for good reasons, War Games stands as a haunting precursor to the direction DC was headed with her character: sidelined and replaced in favor of characters editors were planning on using (Kate), could agree on using (Steph), or liked more (Babs).

Batgirl (2008)'s Sales Performance: I cut this bullet point largely because it's ultimately a footnote in the larger saga that was Cass's limbo years. Basically, after the resolution of the Evil Cass arc DC reassured fans that they "had plans" for Cass as Batgirl. This later manifested via her appearances in the Batman and the Outsiders (2007) run and (eventually) a new solo mini. Unfortunately, Batgirl: Redemption Run didn't perform nearly as well as DC hoped for a variety of reasons: many Cass fans swore it off due to it being written by Adam Beechen (the writer who wrote her heel-face turn in the first place), the first issue was poorly written, the story wasn't particularly engaging, etc. The tepid reception and subsequent poor sales of this mini were then used to retroactively justify booting Cass out of the Batgirl mantle entirely during the aftermath of Bruce's death in Final Crisis and the Battle for the Cowl event.

However, DC was already planning on taking Batgirl from Cass and giving it back to Babs at the time, and it likely would have happened even if the mini had done well. The way we know? This image foretelling the events of the Reborn era and Blackest Night was teased in the final issue of Dick's Nightwing solo, as was this one from the end of Babs' Birds of Prey run. That's not Cass kissing Dick, folks; that's Barbara Gordon, Batgirl once again. This planned choice was, as I stated on Reddit, later confirmed by Dan Didio in an Editor's Column during Steph's Batgirl run, who said that at one point Babs was "as close to being Batgirl again as Dick was to being dead in Infinite Crisis" (which is to say, very nearly a done deal). I suspect that only a last-minute internal writer revolt–particularly from Gail Simone, who we know was a vocal supporter of keeping Babs Oracle–stopped it from happening.

Cass's Absence in Battle for the Cowl: I mentioned this in the original write-up but largely glossed over the particulars. In-universe, Cass had just been adopted by Bruce, was fully Batgirl again, and was largely reconciled to the rest of the Batfamily after the Evil Cass arc. And yet her only appearances during the Battle for the Cowl event (and the aftermath of Final Crisis more generally) were cameos in the main book and a main role in the BftC: The Network tie-in oneshot. Literally the only thing she did for the entire duration of BftC was create the Network, which helped the Bats deal with Gotham rogues, and take out a few criminals alongside Huntress. So you have DC continually downplaying and sidelining Cass in a story where she reasonably should have had a major, co-starring role. This event also marked her final appearance as Batgirl, which leads into the next issue I cut.

Batgirl (2009)'s Marketing: this one's very complicated and doing it justice would involve tracking down a lot of old ads and interviews revolving around how DC solicited and marketed this book in the lead-up to the reveal that Stephanie Brown was the new Batgirl, which I simply didn't have time to do at the time of the original write-up and ultimately would have just sidetracked the whole thing, but in short: readers didn't actually know who the protagonist of the new Batgirl solo was going to be when the title was announced. DC had cancelled Birds of Prey and announced both a new Batgirl book and a miniseries called "Oracle: Search for the Cure" (which later became Oracle: The Cure). So Babs' return to the cowl was being solidly teased, but Cass was still Batgirl and showed no real signs of wanting to give up the mantle.

DC's marketing and editorial teams played up this ambiguity by baiting both Babs and Cass fans in order to drive sales: this included teasing ads, early issue solicts that deliberately obscured who was wearing the cape, and a refusal to confirm who the Batgirl of the upcoming solo title would be during interviews and con panels. They chose to heighten the ambiguity even within the title itself: early covers of the run often obscure Steph's hair, eyes, and sometimes even her whole face; the first two issue covers even feature Steph in both Cass's and Babs' Batgirl suits to heighten the confusion. So was the Batgirl of the new title going to be a newly "cured" Barbara Gordon, a second shot for Cassandra Cain, or someone new entirely?

Obviously, none of these things happened. As we all know, Stephanie became Batgirl. The choice to make Steph Batgirl was a compromise decision, as Didio mentions in his editor's note (linked above):

"After long discussions it was agreed that Oracle had become such a strong character there was no sense going back. And since we wanted to make a change, Cassandra no longer seemed right for the role (Not to worry Cassandra fans; plans are afoot, in a very big way, for our favorite non-lethal assassin in 2010). As for Wendy, Bette, and Misfit, none felt strong enough for the position. That left us with the one choice we all agreed on, Stephanie Brown......from the time of her death to the outcry for a memorial and ultimately to her return, there is no denying that her character had connected with a portion of our fanbase and, more important, connected to the Batfamily. It just seemed to make sense that she was the one, and given her history and ties to all the members of Batman's world, the potential is there to make this new Batgirl the one fans will be speaking about for a very long time."

So as previously stated, Steph's treatment during the War Games era ultimately set the stage for her to be the compromise choice for the new Batgirl; she became this interim buffer character because everyone at DC was fighting over Babs vs. Cass and she was the only one everyone could agree deserved the title, and she thrived in that role over the next two years. And a new Birds of Prey book was then announced in the aftermath of Oracle: The Cure and Blackest Night, so Babs' prominence as Oracle survived for another two years until the New 52.

But Cass? Well...Cass unceremoniously handed the Batgirl mantle off to Steph, seemingly fucked off for no discernable reason, and showed up in a grand total of six issues across the entire Batbook slate over the next two years while being largely written out of the Batfam's history and having her reasoning for leaving Gotham retconned from being a choice into being an order from Bruce. Which segues us directly into the next piece of drama that I somewhat glossed over in the original write-up.

The Reborn-era Editorial Erasure Edicts: Bryan Q. Miller, the writer on Steph's Batgirl solo, was under strict editorial edict to basically not mention Cass or include her in the run if he didn't absolutely have to. For example, when he asked editorial if there was a reason why Cass left Gotham, they basically told him "she leaves. why? Because she just does, so your book can exist. Come up with a reason to make her leave and then don't use her."

This era is still pretty opaque in terms of what we know about what various writers were and weren't able to do with Cass, but we do know that Miller specifically was disallowed from featuring her in-person in Batgirl and highly discouraged from mentioning her in general. However, he noted on multiple occasions that he liked Cass and would be happy to use her:

Babs and Steph are the core of this title, no doubt about it. While we'll have another passing reference/flashback to Cassandra soon, I'm leaving the rest of Cassandra's story to whichever lucky duck gets to write her elsewhere in 2010. As for Batwoman, I'm leaving Kate in Rucka's capable hands for the time being. -Miller in an interview with CBR in 2009

If at some point the story I’m telling feels like it can only be told with Cassandra as a part of it, then believe me, I’ll try to find a way to work her in. As it stands currently, however, Cassandra’s fate and future are not in my hands. -Miller in an inerview for Broken Frontier in 2010

Had the book continued past Issue #24, we know that Cass would have had a recurring role as Black Bat in the present day as well as being featured in a Batgirls time-travel story, teased through one of Steph's Black Mercy hallucinations in that final issue. Other than that, we still have no real idea to what extent Cass's presence would have been allowed in the Batgirl book had the New 52 not happened.

Now, I will note that some of the omissions of Cass during Steph's run were seemingly his choice. He's mentioned that he left Cass off of Steph's infamous "Batfamily whiteboard history lesson" cold open from Batgirl #15 on purpose, for example:

The reason she didn’t make the white-board history lesson for Wendy was simply that I didn’t feel it appropriate to poke fun at her. Steph has a smirky little good natured time editorializing the Bat family tree. To suddenly have a serious/tribute panel in the mix would have gotten in the way of the tone of the opening. Now, that’s from the writing standpoint. From a character standpoint, Steph drew for Wendy what she deemed to be the pertinent players on the Gotham board and their connections/histories, given her role as Proxy. You’ll note, she also didn’t mention her own role as Spoiler (though she just couldn’t RESIST drawing that adorable little Spoiler with the broken hearts over in the Tim/Robin section). -Bryan Q. Miller responding to a fan letter from Caitlin in 2010

It's certainly possible that the editorial edict surrounding Cass's presence in the book also impacted his decision to leave her out of the history lesson. We simply don't know. However, the above response is the only statement he's ever given on that issue and we've yet to hear anything to the contrary.

Outside of Batgirl, DC also went to considerable effort during this era to erase Cass's importance both as Batgirl and to the Batfamily more generally. From being basically excluded from every Bat book except Tim's globetrotting Red Robin book to descriptions like these:

Black Bat: one of several former (and temporary) Batgirls, the wonderful Cassandra Cain has adopted a new Batman Inc. identity as the Black Bat, operating out of Hong Kong. -Batman. Inc (HC Edition)

It was not a fun time to be a Cass fan.

Elsewhere, we know that Gail Simone was actively campaigning editorial to let her use Cass in a significant capacity in her relaunched Birds of Prey book. There was also a substantial rumor at the time that Cass would be taking the White Canary mantle from the villain Simone introduced in her opening arc (see this twitter thread for more on that). For varying reasons related to both DC's general treatment of Cass at the time and a hesitance to give Cass to Gail specifically (which I'll elaborate more on in a moment), neither of these things ever happened.

We also know that Scott Snyder loved Cass and tried to get DC to let him write a Cass story on multiple occasions–a struggle which continued throughout the early reboot years and eventually resulted in the creation of Harper Row, as I mentioned in the original write-up. He eventually managed to convince editorial to let him write Gates of Gotham, which co-starred Cass in a significant role for the first time since 2008 and ended on a good note...and also wound up being her final appearance in comics for nearly five years.

Other than Snyder and Fabian Nicieza (who wrote the majority of Cass's few Reborn-era appearances in Red Robin), critical darling and editorial favorite Grant Morrison was the only other writer who was allowed to handle Cass. They're the one who gave Cass the "Black Bat" codename in Batman Inc. #6 and supposedly wanted to do a Cass and Steph team-up later on in that book. Unfortunately, because of the impending New 52 reboot they were ultimately only allowed to use Steph in "Leviathan Strikes" (and even her ability to be Batgirl in that final appearance was up in the air for awhile, causing the book's artist make Spoiler!Steph sketches for the story just in case editorial nixed her appearance as Batgirl).

So going back to Gail Simone for a moment, why wasn't she allowed to write Cass in Birds of Prey? After all, she was one of the few female writers in the comic industry, and a successful, well-renowned one at that. She was writing a women-led book helmed by Barbara Gordon that had featured and guest-starred a wide variety of DC's female heroes over the years and was actively asking to use the character. Well, even besides the various editorial mandates sidelining Cass and keeping writers from using her, there was another problem.

Gail Simone's Proposed "Christian Conversion Arc": The year is 2006, we are still pre-Evil Cass arc, and Gail Simone has been asked by DC management to pitch what she would do with Dick and Cass if assigned either Nightwing or Batgirl to write. She never actually turned in a Nightwing pitch, though apparently she had pretty strong ideas, but she did turn in her Cass pitch. And what did Gail Simone come up with?

Cass saves a Christian minister from a robbery, discovers Christianity, and becomes a hardcore convert who quotes the Bible and talks scripture with gang members while wearing a white outfit and being called "Angel of the Bat" as she protects Gotham's homeless and marginalized residents. No, really. That was her pitch.

I can't even begin to explain how bonkers this idea is and how many problematic elements are baked into it both conceptually and in the inevitable execution had the pitch actually been greenlit. I could talk about how Gail presents a fundamental misunderstanding of Cassandra as a character throughout her description of the pitch. I could talk about how unsuited this kind of arc is for Cass more generally given her stories up to that point. I could talk about the racist history of Christian missionaries in Asia and the awful implications of Cass apparently needing to find God to look after Gotham's most vulnerable residents and be "genuinely happy for the first time." I could talk about how the Batfamily already had two sincerely devout Christian characters in Jean-Paul Valley and Helena Bertinelli and forcing that narrative onto Cass was doing nothing new or novel. I could talk about the problems with Gail, an atheist, deciding that this was an arc she felt qualified to write for any character (much less one like Cass).

Instead, I'll simply say that this failed pitch and Simone's consistently poor, exoticized handling of other Asian characters like Cheshire and Lady Shiva likely contributed to editorial's hesitance to hand her permission to write Cass during the Reborn era, and that I ultimately cut it from the Reddit write-up because I felt like including it would derail the post from talking about what happened to talking about "could have beens" (since this would have theoretically happened in place of the Evil Cass arc). It leaves Cassandra Cain as a truly good, kind person attempting to do good and save everyone she can rather than the racist caricature of a villain that we ultimately got; that's about the only good thing I can say about it.

......I'm sorry, everyone. I was going to do one final entry and talk about the Rebirth-era storytelling decisions and editorial edicts but I got to the end of this one and found I just couldn't do it anymore. I'm the embodiment of the Ben Affleck and Hayao Miyazaki smoking memes right now. I'm so tired, y'all. I'm so tired.

There's infinite amounts of racist, sexist, and ableist industry drama bullshit that I could cover related to DC's handling of the Batgirls and Cass more specifically and no write-up or additional posts will ever be able to sufficiently cover any of it with the depth, attention, and outrage it deserves. There's always more to talk about. There's always one more piece of awful bullshit to drag out of the shadows. There's always one more cut in the thousand fans have already talked about over the past twenty years. I could write a full-length book featuring several currently non-existent tell-all interviews with various creators and likely still not reach the bottom of the barrel. And the things that will likely never be public knowledge far outnumber the things we actually do know about DC's shitty treatment of Cass (and by extension Babs, Steph, and every other woman associated with the Batfamily).

And while things are better for Cass now than they were then, we're still far from any of the girls being treated well. Unfortunately, we still have a long way to go. One day, I hope this won't be the case.

#cassandra cain #barbara gordon #stephanie brown #batman #batfam #cassandra cain meta #barbara gordon meta #stephanie brown meta #dc comics #dc fanwank #long post #VERY long post #dc drama #dan didio #asks

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journey-to-the-attic · 10 days

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I don’t know if I actually said this yet since I keep falling asleep while checking tumblr at night but the song parody you’re making for oh dear me is super cute!!! It’s also doubly cool because you’re making it for two languages at once and it was neat to see some of your thought processes when explaining how you were changing Beel and Belphie’s canonical name spellings to share the first character.

thank you!!!! actually, to talk about this a little bit because i've just realised how much i'd like to... the thing with my level of chinese is that most of the new lines, i have to come up with in english first, then translate in a way that still fits the flow of the lyrics+rhyme scheme (then re-translate because of the differences in phrasing or exact definition lol)

there were some things that i didn't notice unless i went back and actually sung through the lines for myself, where e.g. repeated homophones or slight differences in rhyme made it feel awkward. in most cases this just entailed further changes to the original lyrics, which by now are only really fully intact in the final chorus

so the "why aren't you saying anything?" line from the og got changed to "you haven't punished anyone lately" because a change to a previous line meant that the "hua" sound was repeated, and that sounded weird. ultimately though i like the change better, since it tailors the song even more towards lucifer lol

actually i wanted from the start to have one of the items on lucifer's schedule be "argue with satan over something pointless", but that particular section of the song is tricky because it's delivered very fast, and i had two issues, both of which i wasn't sure what to do with, mostly owing to a limited vocabulary:

my translation of "argue over something pointless" took up too many syllables to fit into a pretty short line

i wanted to leave the last "zhui" intact - or at least the "ui" sound -bc the whole flow of the thing sounded just a little off when i changed it

i was saved very recently by remembering the phrase "抬杠拌嘴" so now the line is this

final note on the demons' names... there are standard chinese phonetic translations which as far i can tell are what the game uses? i'm sure there were reasons for the characters/sounds chosen for those that surpass my limited knowledge, so for the most part i'm just sticking to them-

(even though i have no idea why they chose dan for satan when there IS a tan sound in the language? satan -> 撒谈 -> sātán c'mon guys!!!! 谈 even has the character for fire in it! fire as in hell where he lives!!! it works!

（side note again but i was really amused by how simeon becomes ximian which yeah that makes sense but i was expecting something more complicated. btw if you switched one of the characters in mammon's name it'd translate to horse door)

-but for the twins specifically i just really wanted to make the change bc it's very common for siblings to share characters in their name, and bei'er as a sound fit better with how beelzebub is pronounced in english (to me)

#answering asks #anon asks #this is all mostly pointless bc the modified lyrics aren't actually going to be sung #i'm just going to play the original and subtitle with the new ones #but it'd bother me if i didn't go the whole way

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la-confrontation · 2 months

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Very Vague Analysis of "Javert t'es amoureux" interpreted by Jean Vallée

I wrote a shitpost about it some days ago and @aftershocked 's comment made me want to develop on it, about why the lyrics are supposed to convey a metatextual message about the actor playing Javert (here, Jean Vallée). + Thoughts on why I think it's incredibly funny that they chose to make Javert a hopeless romantic and we all went 'ah! he is gay!' (as we should). I apologize if I'm just stating the obvious btw I'm not the smartest person in the room. Also, I read this before and I thought it was a good translation and I will use some of their previous interpretation, so credits to: https://www.kellycatalfamo.com/blog/2017/9/3/javert-tes-amoureux (thank you again, aftershocked, because i never saw this post before you mentioned it!).

1 — Javert is Jean Vallée.

No kidding, Jean Vallée is the first one to interpret Javert in Boublil's and Schönberg's musical in 1980. But then it does make sense for Vallée to write a song about himself as Javert, as he is transcended by his love for the character and the role (we'll get back to that).

There is definitely a play with the use of "Je" and "Tu". Who is je in this song? It's not obvious from the start. The first line might suggest the speaker is Javert directly ("Moi, le lecteur invétéré du Code Civil et du Code Pénal") yet this Je is accusing Javert, the Tu, in the chorus, which leave a doubt of the identity of this speaker. (You could definitely argue that it would not be out-of-character for Javert to talk to himself, on the contrary. Lol.)

Moreover, kellycatalfamo mentions that Javert actively reading is ooc, and this is also an element that makes me think that Vallée is mainly the one talking in the song, making the character he's supposed to play doing things he would not do otherwise : "What I took from this is that Vallée is not simply describing Javert reading the advice column in bed -- a VERY non-Javert-like activity -- but describing Javert suddenly realizing this uncharacteristic thing he's doing ... and continuing to do it".

According to me, Jean Vallée is trying to be Javert, to incarnate Javert, but he fails, and loses his balance and skills as he tries to act like the character again (reading the Code Civil, keeping his cool, seeing the world only in black and white, etc.).

2 — Vallée is trying to get back into his role.

So, in kellycatalfamo's translation, the original french lyrics is "redeviens moins si vieux" in the second chorus, but I'm sure it's a mistake and the lyric is actually "redeviens moins sérieux" (= "become less serious again"). Vallée castigates himself because he slipped out of his role, talking to both himself and the Javert he tries to make out of himself (use of the imperative).

"C'est impossible, venez à mon secours et rendez-moi inaccessible" = There is an urgent need to get back into his role, for Vallée, and suddenly, he is not Javert anymore and asks help to the other actors around him. He wants to be unattainable, in the sense Javert is (as a fictional character existing only on paper) but also from his own feelings, attacking him from the outside, the real world (the théâtre being traditionally a closed space, existing on its own and according to its own rules and codes).

"Ce roman policier, cette série noire, qui t'a incarcéré le cœur" = The roman policier in France was mostly invented by Balzac, huge inspiration for Romantics like Hugo, so perhaps it isn't as much of a reach to assume that, here, Vallée is referencing to the novel Les Misérables and the effects it had on his "heart". If we're seeing it like that, then he means that he is submerged, overwhelmed, by his own love for the original material—Javert is thus in love by proxy, through his interpret's own adoration for the text.

"Je veux rentrer dans mon théâtre, continuer d'être misérable par contrat et par devoir" = oooh again, Jean-Pierre Virgil is so smart! At this point, Javert completely disappear behind his interpret. The theater, locus where he, Javert, exists on his own; locus where Vallée, amorous, desperately wants to come back. Moreover, the double sense of this line: Javert continues to be miserable because of his characteristic sense of duty and justice, contracted he is to the law like a dog to its master; but it could also be about Vallée's contract with Hossein, Boublil, Schönberg, as a profesional actor, and the sense of artistic duty he feels to do Javert's character right on the scene. (Again, where does Vallée start, where does Javert finish...)

"Je crois qu'on est hier alors qu'on est déjà ce soir" = The most strange lyric to me so far. I picture Vallée standing on the théâtre's scene, taken aback because he thought he still had time to revise his lines, but he doesn't, because he's already performing and he has to get back in the role. I think this line shows how he is losing his self within the text, whether or not it's the novel or the script, and his love for the role.

"Pardonnez monsieur Victor, si je sors du bouquin, je n'en peux plus, mon amour est trop fort" = Finally, the most obvious lol, I should've start there I'm sorry. It's written on the thin here. Vallée is completely out of his role and expresses his love for the original material to the author—and yet! It could also be Javert himself, coming out the book. In french, "sortir de" can also mean "to slip out of something", metaphorically speaking.

3 — Javert in the Brick.

Finally, to some extent, I think it is also a song about Javert Déraillé. My guess is that Jean-Pierre Virgil and Jean Vallée wanted to make Javert sympathetic to the public, give him some romantic sensibility, and since the musical's motif is a lot centered around love, it makes sense. Although, I don't think they realize the way they portrayed Javert as a homosexual, because, if not Jean Valjean, who else Javert might be in love with LOL. My favorite lyrics that might imply Valvert are "Toi qui ne voulais regarder la télé pas autrement qu'en noir ou blanc, voilà que tu trouves qu'il manque de couleurs" > to me, this is an obvious reference to how Jean Valjean completely destroys Javert's vision of the world. Also, a reference to the french lyrics in Javert's Soliloquy: "noir ou blanc, hors-la-loi ou dedans; noir ou blanc, c'est Javert ou Valjean".

Anyways, I love how Vallée insults Javert in the song, as if aware that being in love is uncharacteristic of him, yet is happening ("pauvre vieux con de flic" and "bravo le clown" never fail to make me laugh. I always call Javert a clown because of this song lol).

Hm. I am enthusiastically open to discussion and I apologize if I wrote a way too long post about something everyone in the fandom already knew about. I just love this song so much.

#les misérables #les mis #javert #javert t'es amoureux #a hint of valvert i suppose #meta?

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sanaxo-o · 3 months

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Assign your moots bollywood songs and why?

Stop I love this so much 🥺😭. I haven’t been listening to Bollywood music much nowadays so this is totally on my old knowledge since idk any new songs.

@sohnric : Hey Ya! From the movie Karthik calling Karthik

This is totally because bar just genuinely radiates the kind of energy where you stop whatever you’re doing and just stare at her once she walks in the room.

@from-izzy : Haule Haule From the movie Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi

Hmm so basically to sum it up Izz is someone who will make you feel comfortable in an instant even when you just started talking with her. That’s just how she is tbh and I love the vibes of this song so much 🥺

Bonus I assign Chammak Challo from the movie Ra.One to @from-izzy because I can and I will 🥰🫶🏻

@kimsohn : What Jhumka? From the movie Rocky aur Rani Kii prem kahani

I think this is self explanatory. Shru and me had talked about pretty jhumkas and what not when it comes to Indian culture. I totally think of Shru when I listen to What Jhumka now 🥺.

@winterchimez : Love You Zindagi from the movie Dear Zindagi

At first I was planning on giving Cham Cham to Als but then when I remembered the song love you zindagi I knew it was for ally because to be fair 1. She was one of the first moots I got close with 2. Girlie is still thriving despite everything 🥺🫂

@cloverdaisies : Saturday Saturday from the movie Humpty Sharma Ki Dulhania

Plz don’t judge this song yall ☹️. This is like the song you will hear at a dance party in India and clo fits this so well 🥺. Like yes girl go and get your drinks after the tough week 😭. (I was gonna give Party all night but I don’t want clo to get mad at me 🥰)

@strayed-quokka : Garmi from the movie street dancer 3D

Hmm I will say it. Lenlen makes me blush all the time hence this song so yes but lemme remember more oh yes! Subha Hone Na De because I just know if me and lenlen meet we would stay up all night just talking, eating, dancing and what not 🥰.

@astrae4 : Ratta Maar from the movie Student of the year

Poor baby has back to back exams nowadays hence this song 🥺😭. All the best non 🫶🏻 but if not that song then Tum Se Hi from Jab We Met because she just meets these vibes so well ☹️🥺. Literally one of my favourite movies and songs <3

@o-onikix : Paisa from the movie De Dana Dan

Hmm 🥰 because this girl is always in some need of money (us girl us) but like Nara is the depiction of Ye Ishq hai from Jab We Met so yes that song too because coughs 🥰 but also Badtamerz Dil because YJHD is her favourite movie and it’d be a crime if I don’t assign any song from that movie

@quaissants : One Two Three Four (Get On the dance floor) from the movie Chennai Express

Because I can and I will, as in the movie the actor (SRK) is drunk and Mona is drunk without drinking anything most of the time so yes. Other than this song I assign Kashmir Main Tu Kanyakumari simply because i think it fits Mona.

@itsbeeble : Senorita from the movie Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara and Sooraj Dooba Hain from the movie Roy

It’s always chaos with Reese 🥰 and because she is always awake and is pretty much busy with everything most of the times so she needs these type of things in her life.

@hcuyk : Uff Teri Adaa from the movie Karthik calling Karthik

Have been a huge fan of her since I read Kidult and if I say that this is the biggest compliment I could give as an Indian then? Because the way we all scream to these lyrics when it plays and also she is so these lyrics 😭 (btw plz let me know what emoji you want 🥺😭)

@stealanity : Param Sundari from the movie Mimi

Marty is soooo these lyrics 🥺. Like yes guys she is my param sundari 😍. I don’t have much to say but yes 👏

@juyeonszn : High Heels ke Nachche from the movie Ki and Ka

Omg tbh I don’t know why I chose this song but Dawn is so this song. Idk why but yes.

I think that’s all 😭. Plz let me know if you want a part two with the rest of my moots because I used all my brain juice for this one.

#moots 💗#izzy ☀️#ally 🌥️#nara 💫#Lennon 🍋#bar 🦄#maya 🪷#clo 🌸#Marty 🐸#Mona 👹#reese 🍫#gill 🐧#fawn 🌺

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thepeculiarbird · 3 months

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Characters from project.dgkotr

So as you know, I've been working on this wip for 10 months now. So I've been thinking of introducing my characters, this will be updated from times to times if there's a new character or if I just find something interesting about an already existing one.

MCs :

🖌️ - Noe / 21-22 (start-finish) / Gay / He-Him

Noe is one of the mcs. His dad disappeared for (not so) unknown reasons when he was 5 so he doesn't actually know him that much. He studies art in an art school where he met Adam and Devyn. You guessed it, he likes to draw and he also used to play trumpet but just kinda gave up lessons.

In volume 1, we start with his point of view (or pov).

📷 - Madhi / 22 / Bisexual / He-Him

Madhi is also a mc. He lives with his parents and his two sisters in the same city as Noe and Danae. He invites Danae to come to the trip he planned with Noe, which makes sense as her bf. However, there's been some tension between the two and it may not go completely well. He studies journalism and likes to write but it's not really a hobby.

In volume 1, we finish with his point of view (or pov).

🛹 - Danae / 21-22 (start-finish) / Up for interpretation / She-Her

Danae is the third mc. She lives with her parents and her brother, Alec. She doesn't study but it is mentionned once that she works at McDonalds. She spends time skateboarding, roller-skating and she loves trying new ice-cream flavors and drinks. She's kind of the mom friend. She dates Madhi as told above, she was really happy to be invited to the trip, until of course, the discovery of the cult. That discovery btw is indeed "her fault", she knew something was off and she decided to find the truth by looking in the women's office.

She's often called "Dan" for short by her family and Noe, her bf doesn't use that nickname as much.

Deuteragonists :

🦩 - Prescillia / around 18 / Lesbian / She-Her

Prescillia is Madhi's sister, she's the middle child. She wants to become a fashion designer because she loves knitting and she will use her brother as a mannequin for the clothes she made. Her bestie is Sibylle <3.

🎸 - Alec / around 15 / Up for interpretation / He-Him

Alec is Dan's brother. He's in a band with 3 friends, he's the guitarist of that band. They play for little school shows or other small events.

🍭 - Devyn / 22 / Up for interpretation / She-Her

Devyn is the silly person "every" friend group has. She also studies art, digital art to be more precise. Even tho she seems really innocent, there are some secrets about her. She never knew her mother, her dad told her that she went to prison and Devyn just believed it.

She does not make a physical appearance in volume 1 but is mentionned.

🦆 - Adam / 22 / Up for interpretation / He-Him

(Yes I chose the emoji because of the meme and I like ducks)

Adam is another less important mc. Like Noe and Devyn, he studies art, he loves to practise human anatomy and would have probably study sciences if he wasn't so bad at it. When he meets Prescillia, he agrees to be used as a mannequin instead of her brother, making all of them happy.

Adam has actually scrapped informations that will not end up in the books.

He does not make a physical appearance in volume 1 but is mentionned.

Side characters :

🧁 - Leslie / 10 / She-Her

Leslie is Prescillia and Madhi's little sister, she's the youngest child and she's so fucking cute.

📚 - Sibylle / around 18 / Up for interpretation / She-Her

Sibylle is a smart girl, she's stated as Prescillia's best friend.

🎤 - Oriane / around 15 / Up for interpretation / She-Her

Oriane is the singer in the same band as Alec. She's in a relationship with another member of the band. She has red and black hair.

🍕 - Martin / around 15 / Up for interpretation / He-Him

Martin is the leader of the band where Alec and Oriane are in. He always has a smile on his face and is really good at helping people. He plays bass probably (I'm not an expert in music sorry)

🔮 - Honorine / around 18 / Up for interpretation / She-Her

Honorine is a member of the cult, she will appear hopefully in every book I write for this wip idea. Don't mess with her because even if she doesn't approve totally what the cult does, she can still kill you. She's very attached to her notebook. (She's more than a side character but doesn't really fit in the deuteragonists)

Pets :

☁️ - Cloud / cat / female

Cloud is Dan and Alec's cat. She is grey/white and she looks like a cloud.

🦎 - Dino / dog / male

Dino was Noe's dog but he died when Noe was around 5. He was a barbet.

Note : If you want informations about any of the characters, check on my blog and look for # with the corresponding emoji (exemple : #🦩). If you still can't find what you want, leave an ask or a comment and I'll try to answer as best as I can !

Tag : @athenaspeculiardaughter @kaylinalexanderbooks @raiden-makoto @sarandipitywrites @jaelink @aalinaaaaaa @lyutenw @buffythevampirelover @nettleandthorne @finxi-writes @arwenschepers @corruptedbread @whimsical-blood-fairy @unrepentantcheeseaddict @kidukami @ryns-ramblings @rowenas-my-fave-child @mysticstarlightduck

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bazingerrr · 2 years

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Your art is absolutely awesome and I adore the bill art! I love Bill x readers but sadly there’s not enough of them ;-;

Thank you so much I sent this ask to my friend and am going to print and frame this 💙💙💙

And yeah it’s an absolute shame there isn’t more /readers and inserters !! My friend brew posted some oc stuff ages ago but every time I check up on them something is beating the shit out of them 😭😭💙💙💙 Justice for that mf !!

If you want to see some crossover doodles look below!!

SOBBING LOOK AT HOW UTTERLY DOWN HORRENDOUS HE IS FOR HER!!

Btw if ur willing to show me ur oc and tell me backstory and cute hc between whatever character I WILL DRAW THEM SOBS I LOVE PEOPLES OCS SOSOSOSO MUCH

find Brew on @truecobblepot !!

Crossover time!!

Two Ladies and their Cannon Companions!!

Btw Bill’s only in a human form because they needed to go out to a restaurant in public !! Also not my official Human Bill design!! — because I don’t have one !! I like using other peoples designs but also messing around with my own because in my opinion I think Bill wouldn’t want to be stuck in a human body forever, I think he’d use his shapeshifting abilities to really switch around the options a bunch !! Which is great for me since I love character design ^^

The reason he looks like the way he does in this comic is cause I thought it’d be nifty to ham in the Party aesthetic — story wise he probably chose this form because Stanford made a comment about his triangle for in public and Bill chose this form to go into a restaurant to, like: “better? :)” I think that is very funny and I might make a prequel to this lol anyway that’s just the side note for Bill’s design here,

Brew also drew some /oc stuff on their account so you should totally check them out if u haven’t, but also don’t expect only that because they do other stuff on there!! The art is so top tier omg,,, if ur into game of thrones I think that’s the show they are currently binging!!

They are so cool.

keep ur eye peeler out! You might need to peel your eyes manually soon because I’m going to post the 4th instalment of Bill and Dan Doodles!!

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idyllic-affections · 9 months

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Hi there! So its been while since i last sent my ask. How are you aph? There seem to be a lot of posts, so im going to ask about the ones im interested about!

First, HI LIAN!!! I saw Lian and I LOVE THEM, They look so cool (btw great drawing btw) and i have so many questions!! 1. Is Lian a high elder? If they are, which ship are they from? (The high elders are the only ones who has visible dragon features, normal vidyadhara only have pointy elf ears) 2. Since they’re in erudition, What kind of research do they speacialize in? 3. WHAT IS THEIR BACKSTORY!!!

Second, why must you break my heart with Kaveh and his younger sibling like BRO. WHY YOU GOTTA BE LIKE THAT!!!!!!! God the angst is hard, but for some reason, i could see kaveh’s younger sibling getting along with wanderer because yk mommy issues and similar personality, although i think at first they didnt get along with wanderer hat guy since he injured Kaveh during the akademiya extravanganza thing and if they have similar personalities then they’re going butt heads with eachother. Still i think Wanderer can understand where kaveh’s younger sibling is coming from. Also am i wrong to say that Alhaitham might have inspired them to join Haravatat??? 👀

Third, uhhh so what happens if bots start following you? (Also how do you know its a bot?)

Hope you have a great day/night btw!

(have you gotten my other ask about a trope idea i had about Archilles heel and a HSR x reader idea? I hope you dont mind me asking that)

- 🐱 Anon

OOODHSKSH i love talking about lian. i told my boyfriend about them last night. he had no idea what i was talking about BUT he listened anyway 🫶🫶

hsr spoilers utc. some of lian's details are still being tweaked and edited, so certain things may or may not change!

yes! lian is a high elder. you know how dan heng... does not really care about his past incarnation and his high elder-ship in general? lian was always a "I Do Not Want This Job" high elder, in most if not all of their incarnations. they're from the xianzhou zhuming originally, but have spent the last few hundred years on the luofu. dan feng's silly ass got them thrown in prison LMFAO lian spent many incarnations serving as a retainer for other high elders since they weren't particularly interested in guarding one of yaoshi's artifacts or leading a clan of their own or succeeding another high elder, but they still had some kind of duty and obligation that they had to fulfill. so. they did it by being a retainer.

well. many incarnations went by, and who was the most recent high elder who they served under? that's right. imbibitor lunae dan feng.

the difference between dan feng's relationship with them and their relationship with other high elders is that he ended up being like some kind of strange older brother figure to them, because almost immediately following their self-incarnation, they were placed under him as a retainer. so he--a bit older than them, probably 100-ish years older at the time--just had this little vidyadhara high elder kid following him around.

well. you know. things happened, and of course they supported him in his Sinful Behaviors and his Crimes. they got thrown in prison for an indefinite amount of time, which was a considerably more merciful punishment than dan feng's. anyway. jing yuan eventually lets them out (initially with the intention of returning them to prison, even if he felt like they deserved to be free) around the time blade and dan heng and yanqing have their interaction.

lian knows why he chose to free them briefly--jing yuan released them with the intention of using their loyalty to his and his companions' advantage, because he knew dan heng was around and he knew they would absolutely blitz anything that put him in danger, even if he is technically not dan feng. they tell the general off and run away when he initially releases them but they do pull through for him and the trailblazers during the fight with phantylia. and they apologize to him for telling him off bc they generally aren't that mean they're very kind and gentle actually and they're generally very logical and understanding of the nuances of situations. it's just that they were tired and angry :(

when dan heng's eternal banishment is lifted, so is their prison sentence.

but now the issue is lian doesn't really want to stay with the xianzhou alliance anymore. dan heng advises them to join the nameless (bro is like "i'm not dan feng" but has nightmares involving them that cause deeper and more stressful feelings which linger more than the other nightmares of his past life.....), to which they kindly--and a little shyly, still uncomfortable and unsure of how to interact with dan heng--accept... with welt's approval, of course.

and as an erudition pathstrider, they have always been fascinated by the universe and it's mysteries, but they haven't really had the chance to study that stuff in-depth until they joined the nameless. they're also quite skilled with mechanics and craftsmanship. they're from the zhuming after all! their skill is definitely not to be underestimated, even if they look too gentle and sweet to do any harm. himeko gets along with them very well and spends a lot of time just... talking with them, exchanging thoughts and perceptions about the universe.

lian hejehekshsksh <33

AJFMSJSKGAKAGAN YEAHHH a lot of you seemed to really enjoy that little brainrot kaiser and i had <3 wanderer and kaveh's younger sibling PLEASEEEE i definitely think the wanderer could understand them. and no, you're not wrong at all! alhaitham definitely inspired them to join haravatat.

i don't think anything bad really happens. i think it's just a personal preference to have real people following you HSNSHJFN.... the reason people always insist that new blogs customize their blog is because blank blogs (ones without a profile picture or banner or title) are ones that are indistinguishable from bots. basically, you can never know for sure, but blank blogs are kind of likely to be bots.

I DID GET YOUR ASK BTW it's okay!!!! dw about asking, i understand <33 i will reply soon!

#aphelion replies: 🐱 anon 🌸

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