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fumifooms · 2 months

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The Nakamoto household - facts & theories masterpost

Table of contents:

the hierarchy & general situation

The parents

The Maizuru situation

The siblings

The other retainers

Izutsumi

Toshiro

Conclusion

I also made tldr summary charts here. This post is about collecting facts about the setting and characters, but it’s gonna be a lot of analysis on what it means through the lens of Toshiro as well, his relationship and place in everything etc etc. They have entangled drama the scale of Daltian Clan. Things are so interwoven it’s hard to keep topics neatly in their own section, because of this pictures may be relevant at several point of this but I mostly won’t be putting them in twice, you might have to do some scrolling up while reading if you want the visual proof to accompany statements. Unlike with Chilchuck’s family there’s less ambiguousness and more intricate details and implications so it’s less theorizing & headcanoning and more stringing together all the crumbs canon gave us. I also dig into some cultural parallels, especially since characters from Wa are the most culturally coded in the series. Also disclaimer that I’ll be calling Shuro Toshiro through this whole thing bc that’s his actual name & Shuro isn’t even a nickname he likes, for accuracy’s sake. The servant girls have real names but are typically called by their code/given names so I’ll call them as such, except for Izutsumi who was named Asebi which I won’t be using.

The general situation

To start off, what’s the situation in canon? All three kids of the head of the house, the three sons (Toshiro and his two younger brothers), are sent out on a vague mission to find something interesting for his father to pick the heir. Each son is thus on their own journey, out with their own group of retainers for an unsure length of time, during canon it’s been 2 years that Toshiro left the house for this mission, and they seemingly all drifted towards dungeons. It’s important to remember that this state of things is the exception and not the rule, and before this the sons lived at home and had different uses of their time, and the retainers had other jobs than care after them. See the next paragraph.

The household offers ninja services, no exaggeration or misuse of the term, mostly spyint but also "covert maneuvers" which could include anything including assassination of people high up. That’s the job of their servants/retainers at least, the heads themselves are more like managers probably, possibly samurais themselves though especially since as we see with the heirs (besides the samurai armor) they also got trained in fighting as their skills showcase. I need to dig into the history of samurais more before I can draw the parallel confidently though. The Nakamoto household is noble/wealthy, distinguished as the Adventurer’s Bible puts it, but it works for and puts its service at use for "their local lord". It buys servants, but also has families who have served it for generations like with Hien. The comic shows that there aren’t only women servants, it’s just the ones we see all happen to be because Toshiro’s retainers are only a small team of all of Nakamoto’s servants.

Above, in a page showcasing characters’ relationships with their party leader: 父親の部下を借りている状態なので、距離がある。Doubtlessly there must be a translation of this already somewhere but I’m lazy and impatient so I turned to machine translation instead, this translates into: "Since he is borrowing his father's subordinates, there is a distance between him and them". Calling the servants retainers is what most of the fandom does and it’s accurate so I’ll be calling them this.

Hien and Toshiro were childhood friends which means the servants do have some degree of contact not even just together but with the heirs too, or maybe just specifically Hien, since both their parents were ninjas for the Nakamotos she ended up getting raised there and they let her play with him as an exception? They did end up drifting away as adults as their relationship got more professional, so it’s possible. The servants eat and sleep in shared spaces, separate from the masters, though Maizuru has her own bedroom, if the room configuration at the in is to be believed + it’d make sense since she’s governess/head servant. I’m hesitant wether to say it’s implied that this group of 4 retainers was always a bit of a team or it wasn’t and got formed for Toshiro specifically. We know that Benichidori had little contact with Toshiro before they were sent out together for example, but we do see all three girls with Izutsumi in Inutade’s extra when they were younger, and them eating in the same japanese styled room etc. The inn they stay at on The Island is western styled though they do have futons rather than beds (there’s only one bed in their shared room and Hien has it because of her rank).

From Izutsumi’s Adventurer’s Bible profile: "Maizuru, who was also Shuro's governess, is the one thing Izutsumi fears. After Izutsumi was taken in by the Nakamoto family, Maizuru forced her through a harsh training regimen of speech, common sense, and fighting skills. Since Izutsumi refused to listen to her, Maizuru set a curse on her that would activate if Maizuru didn't touch her within a set time frame: "Ninja Art: Babysitter." "

Maizuru, called a governess, is the one training the girls, at least some of them, we know for a fact she was the one to train Izutsumi for example, and in general she’s the one in charge of the ninja girls we see. She was a ninja herself but retired from frontline missions, but has a central role managing the servants instead. Inutade for example is strong but not stealthy, and it’s said that it’s Maizuru’s job to choose how to train her and what role to give her in consequence. Her training includes manners but fighting as well, notably kunais and martial arts. Hien is shown to use bombs and Benichidori is implied to be good at disguises, Inutade uses a bold weapon like a club but it’s implied with "ogres and clubs just go together" and Maizuru not knowing where to put her to use that it’s uncommon for Nakamoto servants to use those. Their board game artworks also show their specialties neatly. When brought into the household, the servants are given new names and their whole lives become devotion to the house and their duties. The names might be intended to act as code names due to them being ninjas? It’s implied that they never use their non-code names anymore once they start serving the household. Maizuru’s training also contains language and "common sense"… Critical thinking? As well as implied etiquette. This isn’t surprising, as she was the one put in charge of raising not only Toshiro but his brothers as well.

Oh yes I want to mention that all the retainers’ "first deaths" are in the dungeon during canon, considering our main cast we’re used to death being permissible because dungeons make resurrections possible, but it’s relevant to remember that these people never died before. Never. These girls are professionals, ninjas with a sometimes very dangerous job. Messing up means death, permanently.

From what we see and with who we see, the hierarchy is:

Father (head of house, his word goes)

Mother (has status which puts her wishes above others’ and give her some control over the house, it’s unsure how much though, but hierarchy wise she’s very much above the rest but below the father)

Maizuru (governess, in charge of (at least some) servants and raising Toshiro. Two dots)

Hien (leader of their squad, trained servant from a family devoted to the Nakamotos. Two dots)

Benichidori (trained bought servant. Two dots)

Inutade and Izutsumi (bought servants. Power wise from their rank it’s unsure just how much the difference between Inutade (who has one dot), Izutsumi (who has none) and Benichidori (who has two) is, since Hien is team leader between the four servants at least that’s measurable. Inutade gets some janitor duties, and Izutsumi has a curse put on her so she doesn’t run away I suppose. Power wise it’s unsure, but socially/role wise Inutade and especially Asebi are treated worse.)

I didn’t add the sons because I’m talking more generally about the power structure and it’d depend on each sibling, like Toshiro’s wants and directives during canon trump Maizuru’s, but Maizuru is also his nanny and manages the girls so she has a lot of importance and sway even on the final decisions.

The parents

I am so pissed I forgot that we know Toshiro’s father’s name, Toshitsugu, from these panels showing the progression of the family tree. I am so pissed I’m adding this halfway into writing this whole thing, I am not gonna go back and replace every "the father" by his name atm.

The father is the part of this puzzle most important yet most shrouded in mystery, or rather a lack of details. What we do know paints a pretty full and vivid portrait: impulsive and cares mainly about his own entertainment. Maizuru calls him a fool, his sons are exasperated and go "This again?" when he summons them saying that they’re boring/dull, everyone knows he’s having an affair and he often has undignified demeanor, but what he says goes so yes Maizuru will take Izutsumi under her wing, yes the sons will be going out right away into the world to find you the 8th world wonder, yes whatever you want lord. He seems to have little care for how his action affects others, like crashing into Maizuru’s room at night and asking she take care of a catgirl, or sending out his sons suddenly with kicks to the butts. He does what he wants hen he wants and others have to comply.

Like we see with Izutsumi and Inutade, he tends to take a liking to slaves here and there and buy them on the spot, usually at entertainment places, like sumo wrestling matches for Inutade and a freakshow for Izutsumi. The Adventurer’s Bible states him acquiring Inutade as "By coincidence, Shuro's father came to see her first match; he liked her and bought her for the Nakamoto family." and Izutsumi as "She was on display as a "cat-girl" in a sideshow when Shuro's father took an interest in her and bought her." In Maizuru’s extra, he calls Izutsumi a "souvenir" he got for her, and he’s drunk so it could well be assumed that buying Izutsumi was a drunken whim, and that he mitht be alcoholic. You can’t really say that he picks them out because he sees potential in them to be a ninja or would be useful, since with Izutsumi she had no fighting training and Inutade doesn’t fit the skills they seek like stealth and she has trouble fitting in. You could assign noble goals to him like maybe wanting to help or relating to the misfits, but I think with what we see of him it’s more likely that he likes to pick up "oddities", like a catgirl at a freakshow or an ogre, especially since one of the only things we know of him is he wants his sons to bring back interesting trophies from their travels. Toshiro, about his father buying Inutade, says: "People in power desire ogre as servants, and ogres are chosen as opponents in tests of strengths or military exploits. My father bought her for similar reasons."

Also from this we can infer that he goes out to events often, like circus and sumo wrestling, again mostly for entertainment from what we see. I like to think it’s implied that he used to travell maybe still does, due to his own liking for it as a test and because he visits various places like the sideshow, plus his forearm scars in Toshiro’s extra… But him being a samurai in service of a lord could definitely explain that.

This all paints an interesting picture doesn’t it… The Nakamoto’s lifestyle is super encased in rules and social propriety, duty and hierarchy. Old noble man who’s been surrounded by propriety all his life and just wants some spark of interesting stuff happening amongst the humdrum of his lavish cushioned life at home, and is shitty to people around him in consequence and due to his privilege allowing him to. He’s despicable, but from his 3 appearances he becomes an interesting well-fleshed character, at least proportionally to the screentime he gets…

We also know that the affair with Maizuru is well known at least inside the household, so there’s no genuine secrecy around the topic. Makes sense that the wife would hate her guts.

Ahh yes the mother. Little is known about the mother, except that from Maizuru’s profile "Shuro’s mother can’t stand the sight of her, to the point where there are areas on the property Maizuru is forbidden to enter. Maizuru, however, is impressed by his wife’s strength of character." From this I glean that she does have enough power/respect in the house that she can make rules like where Maizuru is allowed to go. Also the implication that otherwise Mazuru would have access to EVERYWHERE in the house despite being only a (high-ranking) servant is a bit interesting. Wether the mother’s "strength of character" is overt and hot-headed or understated and cool-headed is unsure, but I imagine the latter more. I could see Maizuru’s angle in many ways, from being able to tolerate "that fool" aka the father both just in general and with knowing that he’s cheating on her, to knowing how hard it is to be respected as a woman and admiring her putting up with it all and still being able to have sway in the household. This is I think the only mention of the mother anywhere. Doesn’t seem like she is an important figure to Toshiro at all: in fact we hear about her on Maizuru’s profile, and seeing all of this we can see the importance of her in Maizuru’s backstory and life, moreso than Toshiro’s. I imagine she’s a bit of a recluse, which is part of why Maizuru not being allowed to roam the full house is important, because them running into each other at the house is high.

It’s unsure how much contact the parents have with their kids. What we know is that they left the principal tasks of raising the kids, or at least Toshiro, to servants. Toshiro’s profile says that he’s more attached to Maizuru than his parents, and that’s the phrasing. From the comic where their father summons the sons, it does seem like they’re more or less used to interacting, with the sons’ "This again?". So it’s not that they’ve only interacted with them few times enough to count on fingers, but how meaningful were those interactions? From Toshiro’s profile we know he has a complex where he thinks he’ll never get recognition from his father or be able to measure up to him… But is that more born out of secondhand gossip and expectations, or from direct interactions with him that made him feel that way? Likely a mix of both, especially since the father does seem to be very dismissive, uncaring and insulting with his sons. Oh, but it’s definitely notable that in the Hag monster tidbit (below in Maizuru’s section) six years old Toshiro runs to his father scared shitless for help against the shikigami, and his father casually helps him without batting an eye. Toshitsugu knows how to deal with Maizuru’s shikigamis, and he does so efficiently and without any sense of worry or urgency. Although the event traumatized Toshiro and he was very scared, it doesn’t seem like his father offered any comfort, beyond just helping getting rid of it and letting him cower behind him without comment. Toshitsugu gives hungover vibes in that one imo haha. It’s shown he was already training as a ninja, perhaps this event only reinforced Toshiro’s complex, seeing his father, the samurai the achieved man who has expectations for him, so unfazed and uncaring like that.

The Maizuru situation

Let’s establish a timeline first. It’s left vague how much time she’s served the Nakamoto family for, or how she came to be in their service. The central point is that "She was put in charge of raising their children at a young age". If straight from his birth, Maizuru started taking care of Toshiro when she was 15 years old. If from toddler age, then 16. It’s uncertain if when she stopped getting front-line espionage missions, but we know it’s late rather than early despite having kid raising duties. But well, since she’s also in charge of the ninjas she’s definitely has a multitasking role even now.

The dad prob has around 5-10 years more than Maizuru, I’d say. We only see half of his face and only a good few years in the past, around ~3 years ago probably with the shuro quest and a good 7 years with Izutsumi as a kid, but visually those are the vibes I’m getting. From Toshiro’s birth, it’s possible that the father was 15 when the baby was born too? But conception would have been closer to 14 years old then, and yeah I don’t think they marry and have kids that young. Toshiro is 26 years old in canon and is unmarried, and the heir hasn’t been officially picked, so marriage and kids don’t seem to be in the family’s priorities. Even if Maizuru do say that the father would love if Toshiro brought back a wife.

Now the elephant in the room: she has an on-and-off affair with the father and it has been si for many many years, at LEAST 7 years since that’s when we see that comic of him going into her chambers about Izutsumi, and in the comic above, Hien in that panel has an ambiguous age. Regardless it’s definitely implied that it’s a long, long-standing thing. Hien’s phrasing above makes it sound as if it’s not purely physical, as if feelings are involved, "he’s head over heels for his confidante", and who knows if this relationship is part of why Maizuru was chosen to be the governess, or even hired at all.

It’s in the feud with his father that we learn about maizuru’s affair and how after learning it he started shutting her out emotionally. It’s left vague when Toshiro learned about it, Hien made it sound as if everybody always more or less knew but I don’t think Toshiro started shutting her out when he was still pretty young. Regardless, the two are implied to be linked, his dislike of his father/complex and how he stopped getting along well with Maizuru/being emotionally open with her. Is it that he now feels as though Maizuru is actually on his father’s side and not his own, that after all if she had to choose she’d pick him over Toshiro too? Or is it that, because his father’s known to be a self-centered frivolous jerk, that knowing she lets it happen, "can’t seem to shake it", he respects her less? He has an irresponsible reputation and she does give off the vibe of needing to clean up his messes, so that wouldn’t be unplausible either.

On the flipside from her perspective, since he learned she was his dad’s mistress he emotionally shut her out, which can partly explain why she’s SO fussy with him and happy at the slightest hint of happiness or compliance, like when he listens to her and eats, or maybe even being happy that he lets her help him dress and keep tidy (imo this is supported by how they interact in the page showing him interacting with all his party members). She wants to regain that closeness they once had and for her baby chick to be alright as he’s slipping through her fingers. Man so sad to think about him rejecting her when he’s the only thing in her life. She’s raised him for 26 years, no wonder she’s so attached to him, the only thing in her life she feels true unconditional attachment for. Maizuru says that she thinks Toshiro’ll be a better head of the house than the father, too. The respect and care is somewhat onesided, given freely from her side but repressed from his end. When she cares for Toshiro is when her demeanor immediately and drastically softens. She gets easily carried away when it comes to him, rambling enthusiastically or smiling widely or tearing up. Her tendency to ramble or tell anecdotes about Toshiro is shown making Hien and Benichidori go "Here she goes again…" twice through canon.

With Izutsumi’s timeline we see Izutsumi was taken into the Nakamoto household at 10 yo, and since in the comic with Maizuru and the dad she’s shown as stinky and all I imagine she arrived there the same day, so Maizuru was in charge of her since she was first here. In fact if we assumed that it’s the same day as when he bought her at the circus show, then we could assume that buying her was a drunken whim like mentioned.

Since Izutsumi was taken in at 10 and she’s 17, this would mean that Maizuru is 34 years old here. She looks younger without makeup, but lower than that is mathematically impossible besides maybe 33 if Maizuru and Izutsumi’s birthdays line up just right.

Time for the second elephant in the room!!

Maizuru’s magic

Maizuru is the only person in the Nakamoto household, anyone from Wa really, who we see using magic, I doubt she’d be the only one who can use magic in the household but as the governess it wouldn’t be unplausible I suppose. From what we see, the magic is estimated by Marcille to be an "appropriation of gnomic magic" with an eastern script. For my analysis of written magic (though with only a brief glance over Maizuru’s magic), see this post.

If you scroll up and read the little section on Maizuru’s profile, Ninja art: babysitter: "One of the curses put on Izutsumi is Ninja Art: Babysitter, which manifests as a terrifying hag shikigami. Unless Maizuru touches the victim within a set time frame, this terrible curse makes a hag appear and chase them around with a carving knife. Maizuru originally created it in an attempt to keep Shuro from getting lost, but it ended up traumatizing him…"

From Izutsumi’s profile: "Maizuru, who was Shuro’s governess, is the one thing Izutsumi fears. […] Since Izutsumi refused to listen to her, Maizuru set a curse on her that would activate if Maizuru didn’t touch her within a set time frame: "Ninja Art: Babysitter." It was put on her when she was 12. Since Toshiro had it as a kid, presumably the curse can be lifted off rather easily, Marcille was confident on reverse engineering it as well. It’s unsaid what the time frame is, it’s kept vague everywhere and Izutsumi herself says "who knows" how long it is. Izutsumi ran away despite the very real risk of it killing her. Essentially, Maizuru can put people in a timebomb collar

… MAIZURU WHAT THE HELL

As we might have expected, Maizuru being given the task of rasing a child at 15 did not go perfectly. This, a babysitting technique??! This comic happens when Toshiro was 6 and so Maizuru was 21. Interesting to note that Toshiro didn’t even know it was Maizuru’s doing before this conversation during canon, and he doesn’t know how to bring it up or deal with it how it affected him. Maizuru seems surprisingly uncaring of Toshiro’s feelings on the matter here, oblivious to his conflict her and fondly recalling it all.

This curse is a shikigami. From her profile: "A shikigami user, Maizuru has a variety of shikigami that have been sealed in paper as her servants. Her favorite seems to be Gyuki, a bull ogre." Now don’t ask me when Gyuki appears, I do not remember it. But before we go into the cultural/historical basis for this practice, let’s take a second to recognize the parallel that Maizuru has servants she keeps sealed unless useful in the moment, even despite having enough "attachment" to have a favorite. She’s the governess in charge of the other servants, and she has shikigamis, which she has used on the heir and the runt at the bottom of the hierarchy alike.

Shikigami, in traditional japanese folklore, are conjured to exercise risky orders for their masters, such as spying, stealing and enemy tracking. Shikigami are said to be invisible most of the time, but they can be made visible by binding them into small, folded and artfully cut paper manikins.

Shikigamis are from onmyodo, onmyoji is a profession-legal title historically but it’s what you call a practitioner of onmyodo, and so I feel content in saying that Maizuru is an onmyoji, or based on it. Her outfit reminds me of a shinto priest. It’s interestingly closer to a shinto priest outfit than a miko/shrine maiden’s (in picture below, 2 instead of 5), and I feel like red being chosen for the inner sleeve is a very charged decision since the white & red color combo is the shinto clothes color combo. Especially white clothes with red inner sleeve. Shinto priests can be women nowadays but they’re rare, and onmyojis can be considered shinto priests though it’s a more complex than that. Image below as example, source. Now I don’t think Maizuru has the role or prestige of a priest at all- But the association with onmyodo and spirituality is definitely meant to be made I think. Onmyojis are usually clothed similarly to this.

The babysitter ninja art seems to be based off of the hannya yokai. "They were once human women who were consumed by jealousy and transformed into demonesses", twisted by anger and resentment. Interesting considering her being a mistress to a man whose wife hates her. Hannyas are associated with wisdom because of its name, but there is nothing positive about them. At its highest level of "demonic corruption" if I can call it that, their body tend to become serpentine, fun link to make with her name being from the snakeberry plant.

Other cultural ties or symbolism on Maizuru’s character could be found in the motif of cranes due to her sleeves, in the tales of the crane wife, origami cranes (called orizuru, from deformation of 鶴 "tsuru" aka "crane". All names are written in katakanas in Dungeon Meshi, but thus if we had had the kanjis it’s possible her name would have been written with the kanji for crane), tennyos, and japanese crane symbolism in general. I thought cranes might have been associated with motherhood, but seemingly not in japanese culture at least, I was thinking of storks haha.

Ok speaking of her name. Maizuru is the name of an existing japanese city (舞鶴), meaning "dancing crane". From @room-surprise’s work in progress research paper on Dungeon Meshi characters’ names: "Maizuru is her ninja code name, and comes from “maizurusou”, which is maianthemum dilatatum, the snakeberry plant/two-leaved Solomon's seal/false lily of the valley. Lily of the Valley is a plant associated with motherhood and virtue… So Maizuru being a false Lily of the Valley implies that she is a false, replacement mother, and also hints at the way that Toshiro became cold towards her when he realized she was his father’s mistress, and not a pure, virtuous mother-like figure that he thought she was. Also, lilies are toxic to cats, which makes sense since Maizuru and Izutsumi have an extremely bad relationship." For more details I’ll leave it up to Room when the paper is ready to be released.

So some big themes of her character are: (false) motherhood, spirituality/magic, control, cranes, woman’s jealousy.

The siblings

Alriight so besides Toshiro the eldest at 26 years old, there is Toshiyuki (Toshitsuge in one fantranslation) the middle son and Toshizane the youngest (Toshikage in one fantranslation). They were all said to be raised by Maizuru. "A strange level of distance" is interesting. Why strange? I feel like this implies they do interact regularly, and that they’re all rather civil wirh each other, but they still have little bond to speak of. That wouldn’t surprise me, especially since even inside the family etiquette and propriety and rules are enforced, the summoning by his father feels very formal and they all listen to him standing in silence despite having snappy inner thoughts. It’s unsure if they were largely raised together or apart, but since Maizuru was their (at least main) caretaker/governess it implies that they were imo. They were put in competition with each other for the title of heir to the house, though it’s unsure to what degree. It’s examplified by their family all having names that start with "Toshi" that the legacy is very important and thrust upon them, cogs in a machine almost. They all think the same thing when their father summons them and has a spiel, so they’re used to the same sort of treatment and they are indeed brothers for being on similar wavelengths haha.

Toshiyuki, as seen in the comic about his retainers, the poor soul sent into Darkest Dungeon, is brattish. Rude, selfish and rather lecherous, does not hesitate to be mean to his retainers and complain he wasn’t given women retainers. Visually he looks what, 14 years old top. I wonder if Maizuru stopped using her babysitter ninja art on the heirs after it traumatized Toshiro, and if so maybe that explains why Toshiyuki Knows No Fear In His Heart™️ and that’s why he can spout off stuff like that.

The retainers for the youngest brother, Toshizane, don’t seem to be as clad in ninja gear as the other two, seems like the priority is to take care of the very young young master there? Rather than truly go adventuring and dungeoneering, perhaps. Not that it’s ever said by anyone that their quest is to go into dungeons specifically, only to find something "interesting" to bring back, but both Toshiro and Toshiyuki are shown to have ended up drifting into dungeons. Toshizane looks young, I’d clock him 8 years old personally. He’s drawn looking rather innocent, especially the headshot doodle above and in the Toshitsuge complaining about his retainers comic. ALTHOUGH on the latter, interestingly as we see with Toshiro having a smug smirk in that same panel (or alternatively a smug indifferent/uncomfortable "i don’t care about this, even though you want it so much" look which at the very least is very exaggerated from how he emotes in reality), it’s Toshiyuki’s unreliable/exaggerated vision of his brothers and it doesn’t necessaeily reflect reality, though it’s still interesting to note that that’s the vision Toshiyuki has of his brothers/the impression Toshizane gives off. That can imply juicy dynamics for the brothers, for example if Toshiyuki feels as though he’s in competition with his brothers, feels superior to them, that instead of pushing the shitty family dynamic angst onto his father he puts the blame for it all onto Toshiro. Toshizane seems maybe too young to notice the tensions and seriousness around him, maybe more coddled… IS WHAT I WOULD SAY BUT in the comic where their father send them away he’s as well-behaved and serious as the others, so clearly he has a grasp on his role.

When talking about which retainers go with who, it’s said it was the father’s choice. I’d like to assume it wasn’t an airheaded/random choice. Maybe he knew that Toshiyuki would be weird about having women in his team of retainers? And wants to forge their character or protect them in the way they need. Though how Toshiro’s party only has women isn’t only pointed out and commented on by the comic with Toshitsuge but also in the main Dungeon Meshi story, both Marcille and Chilchuck going "his party is fully made up of women", one more loudly than the other haha. So it does feel like a somewhat pointed/purposeful decision, if not that the 4 girls were already a team like I mentioned.

The other retainers

Already made an analysis of Hien and Benichidori’s relationship (+ moment compilation) here. Honestly my juices are exhausted so quick rundown:

Hien’s parents both serve the Nakamotos, so she grew up with the family and was even a childhood friend of Toshiro. She assumed he and her might end up in a Maizuru-Toshitsugu situation ‘just because that’s how things are’/‘it’d be a natural development’ if we’re to believe Hien, ahh what growing up in the Nakamoto with those role models will make you believe is normal hah, and was surprised when it ended up not in that way at all. They grew more distant with time, in good part because of the professional nature of their roles in relation to each other (truly a reversal of the Maizuru-Toshitsugu situation). She’s the leader of their lil squad, under Maizuru, she’s confident and she gets the perks, like getting the bedframe in the shared inn room. For all the details just read her page. She has two dots, showing her rank as a full fledged ninja.

Benichidori was bought, by "the Nakamotos" so we don’t know who made the final decision. She’s perceptive and submissive, her specialty is implied to be disguise. She never had much contact with Toshiro before she became part of his party. She has facial dysmorphia where she fears the judgement of others if she doesn’t wear makeup and highly values beauty, in her extra her anxiety really shows and she ends up angrily snapping at Hien. Benichidori ends up taking a big liking to Hien and from there on they’re implied to be inseparable. She has two dots, showing her rank as a full fledged ninja.

Inutade is said to worship Toshitsugu because he "saved her" from her horrible life conditions, buying her personally from the sumo matches, she’s extremely grateful to the family and is happy to do any work they give her and is highly satisfied with her current living conditions. She seems to find Toshiro intimidating, though. She was separated from her parents from before she can remember and raised as a sumo wrestler in inhumane betting matches, where her front tooth broke. It seems she has very littke ambitions and dreams besides obeying orders day to day, but after Izutsumi fled away she was happy for her and mused that she’d love to go out and find her one day. They’re so besties Izutsumi gave her a dream of her own I’m sobbing… </3 She has one dot, showing she still has to be attributed her role and earn her stripes.

Their approval rating of their leader. The highest total score from all the parties.

Izutsumi

Sighh where to even begin. Her timeline was put in Maizuru’s section of this post but the rundown is "taken away from parents and turned into a beastkin" at 6 yo (the human half of her soul), "sent to a sideshow on the island of Wa" at 7 yo and bought by Toshitsugu at 10 yo when he took an interest in her when he visited the sideshow. Maizuru put the curse on Izutsumi at age 12, so from then on she always had to not stray much far from Maizuru or risk death, it’s unsure if Inutade’s extra is from before that time, before she was 12, so she could still attempt many many tries to run away. If that’s the case, then Maizuru’s curse was very much treated as a last resort, honestly beyond everything else I can see it being a pain that Maizuru would need to touch her every so often on Maizuru’s schedule as well. The alternative is that, not unlike Kabru who had no regrets dying in a dungeon rather than staying with Milsiril, she’d risk her life to get a taste of freedom. Besides, you know, being a slave and having a timebomb collar with Maizuru’s curse, her frustrations with her life with the Nakamotos is most concisely put in the comic just up above, Inutade’s extra.

She has no dot tattoo, meaning she’s at rock bottom of the hierarchy. It makes sense, since unlike Inutade she’s rebellious and needs threats to obey orders, and even then might try shifty business.

This last part where Izutsumi tries sleeping with Toshiro is most interesting to me. So she’s sought out contact with Toshiro before, she considers him "the stuck-up guy" but she doesn’t exactly hate him. I wonder if this comic is set in the inn on The Island or back at the Nakamoto household, because if that’s the latter it implies that she could get access to his room if she’s sneaky.

Oh oh also, this is fanon but since Toshiro’s weapon is one used usually on horseback, and with the steadfast and upright character of horses I associate Toshiro with horses a bit, though this is wild fanon. What’s interesting is that the plant Asebi was named after is a plant infamous for being toxic to horses. Hehe hehehe he wears a ponytail… Hm now that I think of it hairdos have importance for samurais, should look into that.

Toshiro

God. Ok. Everything was leading up to this guy. Need to split open his head like a geode and vibecheck his brain crystals. Let’s get some interesting details out of the way first.

His weapon is a tachi, not a katana. The wikipedia on tachis is more in depth if you want, but I consider the article I linked to be in deoth and digestible. Tachis are heavier and longer blades than katanas, and make for better horseback weapons than close combat. The way Toshiro uses one instead of a katakana shows that he’s extra strong… And does make sense, since most monsters won’t fight in as close quarters as human fighters. If katanas aren’t a thing in the world yet could make a difference, since tachis were invented first, and once the katana was invented and spread tachis became something more common in higher-ranking samurais. In the monster tidbit of the Hag, it’s shown that even at 6 years old Toshiro was training and learning ninja skills, his first instinct to the shikigami besides running being to fight.

Toshiro knew that Izutsumi wanted to leave, for sure. He may have been sympathetic, if his cryptic look back at her in the ‘Toshiro interacting with his party members’ page means anything. As seen below though, him being sympathetic doesn’t necessarily mean that much. Also, Toshiro had to have known about the curse on Izutsumi, where if Maizuru doesn’t touch her once in a while she’d die. "Asebi must have ran away, leave her" can be seen as subtle support for her to gain her freedom, but it could just as easily be seen as him leaving her behind to die. Because the outcome options are 1) she gets killed by Maizuru's curse, 2) she finds a way to break the spell, 3) she finds a way back to them.

He’s very conflict averse. Wether it be in relationships like with Laios or the status quo. Will not stand up for 99% things including himself. He obeys his father quietly despite his anger and dislike. This is the same guy who can't even get himself to speak up to correct the butchering of his name, the slippery slope that got him tangled in the Laios party seemingly without resistance. It’s very japanese etiquette from even nowadays, never saying a direct no to not be rude. ALSO THAT PANEL, has Toshiro beaten an ogre before?? Is that a brother of his?? Does seem in character for Toshiyuki the most, unless Toshiro was desperate to earn his father’s attention with feats. On the right I’d say the ones in the foreground are two of the brothers, maybe the third being the one to gesture to the ogre. It’s worth noting that inheritance laws during the Edo period often made the heir the son with "the most merit".

When with a goal that’s important to him he’s fine with even starving for it. Although what we see him be like that about in canon is Falin, aka self-admittedly in the post-canon proposal comic "the first person he has liked this much", which for him I feel is like admitting she’s one of the first things he has truly wanted for himself and fought for, soo… It’s more like an exceptional freaking out moment than something that would be recurring, most likely. How disheveled he got is a testament to how much he would forego propriety and rules for people of his status for the person he cares about most. Maizuru says the first personal request he’s (ever?) made was for them to help him rescue Falin.

Which ahh yes, his crush on Falin. I do think idealization plays into it, he doesn’t know Falin that well for sure, but it’s more complex than that too. Falin is pretty and can have an ethereal energy to her, she’s caring and gentle kinda motherly which Toshiro would find soothing I imagine, BUT MOST OF ALL. She’s weird!! She’s just weird enough to allow and be charmed by!! Shuro was fully shaped by his upbringing and environment of nobility, social etiquette and whatnot. Yeah she’s weird and quirky, but still quiet and sweet-mannered enough that he’s like "Yes, she wouldn’t bring shame on my family name". And why would he be charmed by her weirdness? Because all he’s ever known is rules!! Conformity, fitting in!! Unlike the others he knows, she is weird without being overbearing as well. "Woah she’s so different… She’s kind and soft and doesn’t care about fitting in… She is out of this world, she’s free, she shows me a world where tenderness and authenticity is possible…" She’s like his comfort character. MOREOVERRR I had totally forgotten about it, but Toshiro was shown watching a snail behind a bush and losing sight of everything else (like Maizuru calling him) as a kid in the Hag monster tidbit, the moment he fell in love with Falin it was when she looked enthralled at a caterpillar and he mentions how "most girls would have screamed or recoiled in disgust", and in the beach chibis page he’s crouching and collecting shells thinking about Falin… He likes bugs and crawly critters guys, he wishes he could be cottagecore too… It’s a genuine shared interest… . Someone pointed out that Toshiro & Falin’s relationship probaboy references this japanese folk tale, and I think that’s very interesting to note.

And Maizuru is like his mom but it’s a Thistle situation where they can’t just be a normal family and normal affectionate either- and when he learns about his father having a thing with her he feels weirded out. And like. Who knows how much he even got out of the mansion. He got homeschooled. He’s distant with his brothers. The family is in shambles

Shuro’s issue is that he was taught to be perfect and have the upmost respectable behavior, so if something annoys him he has to be righteous about it and that it’s the annoying thing’s fault or moral failing. Bro just let yourself be petty sometimes it’s healthier. With the feud with his father it’s explicitly stated that the pressure and expectations of the family name weigh on him a lot.

But then, that makes his beef with Laios so understandable doesn’t it. Not justified, but explained certainly.

Laios & Shuro and the whole mess coming to a head

I’ve made an analysis of the Laios-Shuro fight from Laios’ pov before, here. This is the Shuro pov analysis. Yes yes in The Fight, Shuro is dehydrated sleep-deprived and underate, he’s majorly off his rocker, BUT his frustration and the underlying issues are still things he felt on any day and it’s interesting to note.

Toshiro has been raised from his birth with the priority of propriety, nobility, etiquette, rules, conforming elegantly, appareances and reputation are everything. He’s modest, humble, quiet, stays in his lane and bottles all his feelings up. Wait who is this loud guy coming up to me being inconsiderate and loud af?? Does he not see me blinking in morse code that I’m not enjoying this and want him to leave?? Was he raised in a barn?? He’s overbearing and rude and way too friendly- He’s weird wtf! Not conforming to basic etiquette is illegal??! And people just… Let him do whateve he wants?? He lives well, no one stops him or kills him?? What the fuck, I’ve followed rules and etiquette thoroughly all my life, and it’s thankless work I get no recognition for, meanwhile he gets to be oblivious af and do whatever he wants without getting clapped?? Resentment, frustration, dislike, anger anger anger, jealousy.

Laios might even remind Toshuro of his dad in a way, because he SEEMS impulsive and like he does whatever he wants without a care to people around him, without thinking of how it might affect them. Doing things without thinking through the Implications. And interestingly this is a bit paralleled to to how Shuro is serious, strict, and big on the duties that come with having a leader role and the family dynamic it brings, like Laios’ own father, who Laios also dislikes… Dealing with his anger towards Laios, especially knowing that Laios doesn’t mean anything bad by it like Toshiro admits, is probably very healing to him. He stops repressing and thinks through his issues a bit, realizes what parts of his life he’s unhappy with and where all the negative feelings come from. I do think he bottles up his dislike for his father a bit, he has to at least for appearances. His beef with Laios is repackaged internalized anger for his father, but it’s ALSO repackaged frustration from his etiquette-bound lifestyle. He says it himself, when Laios is like "You never told Falin how you feel…? Alright, when I can I’ll tell her for you buddy!!", "that’s the part of you that I envy". Laios’ ability to just come out and say what he wants to, what he means. He wishes he could be free of all the rules more, that he had te courage to speak out, like with Inutade, or talking things out with Maizuru, or nit having to act like he’s not angry with his father. This narrative point of Toshiro envying Laios’ ability to say things freely and being frustrated by not being able to himself is ESPECIALLY examplified by their first interactions, the basis of their relationship: Laios enthusiastically befriending him, giving him a bad nickname and roping him into joining his party, with Toshiro never turning it all down despite wanting to, too hesitant to act possibly rude.

And now is time for the laishuro addendum… Because of personal experiences it’s a bit of a sensitive spot to me so while I see timelines in which I enjoy it I’m very picky… This is all further theorizing from me btw I’m not pushing my view here onto ppl as facts, but I think there’s more interesting bits and scenarios to bite into here. Laishuro has very cute and sweet potential. I personally don’t see the "Oh wait Laios is just girl Falin… 😳" angle because to me if anything that’d just make Shuro disillusioned with Falin lol, but like yes make Shuro learn that it’s ok to be weird with Laios 🥺 They DO have differences first of all, important ones, especially from Toshiro’s perspective. Laios is overwhelming, whereas Falin is soothing. Laios is loud and asks things of him where Falin is a calm, quiet presence. Laios pushes himself onto Toshiro, whereas Falin is content on just doing her own thing in her corner alone.

Hot take but the ultimate laishuro timeline is the one where he DOESN’T bring Laios back home, because he knows he’ll be seen as an oddity and clown by his father, and he doesn’t want Laios to be treated like the tapdancing monkey there to please and entertain his father the way he himself has always kind of been. Wouldn’t inflict that onto someone he loves. He can recognize when people are taken advantage of (mostly) like Inutade, and it doesn’t settle right with him. He might be especially sensitive to it in Inutade’s case because it’s about seeing his dad in a better light than he deserves, though. His father is his weak spot, THE weak spot.

It gets me so emotional thinking about it actually because seeing Laios played like a fiddle by his father, Laios so happy to find someone who’s enthusiastically listening to him ramble and engaging, would destroy Shuro emotionally I think. Like. On one hand being like "Oh of course my dad would find Laios fun, unlike me his boring son", super angry as coping mechanism for his intense sadness of not having positive parental attention, and then on the other he’d see Laios being treated as a clown and identify with it and that would remind him of how he gets treated similarly which he’s in denial about (more or less, but since he puts up with the family rules and follows along he hasn’t given up on getting recognition. He wants his father’s approval, and he couldn’t blame Laios for being happy with it despite how hurtful that attention truly is without Laios’ knowledge), which would be such an overwhelming conflicted mess of emotions and his worldview would shatter a bit because he has to repress it all even now, and he’d have a breakdown.

And similar deal but if he brought Falin home… Bc ok yes he idealizes her and doesn’t even know her all that well, but like I said imo what he sees in her is that "Woah she’s so different… She’s kind and soft and doesn’t care about fitting in… She is out of this world, she’s free, she shows me a world where tenderness and authenticity is possible…" So meanwhile with Laios he’d have mixed feelings on him getting treated like a clown and identify with it, bringing Falin home and having her be demeaned would be like having his perfect comfort character dunked on and he gets reminded that the world can’t have anything good actually. With both Toudens it’d make his resentment towards his father even worse, he might snap. I’m not the biggest on gendered analysis tbh but Kui evidently does like to do it to some degree, with the genderbending changing their life considerably and different fantasy cultures having different gender roles and all, but Shuro idealizing the Touden sister as something perfect he cannot attain while being jealous and frustrated at Laios for being something he cannot attain is like. So compelling actually. With Maizuru’s hannya of female rage weaponized there could be a theme of pushing the blame and responsibilities of things onto women too, the responsibility to raise and to manage and to dish out the work and to clean after mens’ reckless decisions. Anyways just a tangent.

Shuro on a bad family angst day is everything I love in a blorbo… He can be a lil shitty as a treat to make his healing arc more fulfilling. Toshiro snapping after he sees how they treat Laios/Falin and he gives up the family headship to LEAVE. Maizuru arc where she has to choose between loyalty to the clan and loyalty to Toshiro, will she stay with the boy she raised or go home… To me Maizuru is much less sympathetic than Shuro, but she is pretty tragic and her selfless love for Shuro is her one redeeming quality. Babygirl take no shit no more, but also better yourself and turn your life around please and thank you… She is so evidently taken advantage of but like. What else does she have? So she just takes care of and loves the boy she raised like her own kid and goes about her daily life in servitude and doesn’t think too much about it all.

Shuro is awful a nickname but also, I think Shiro would be a good nickname for Toshiro, because it gets rid of that ‘Toshi’ first part of his name that all the male members of his family share. It severes the link to his father and the tied pressure from his family.

Laishuro brotp turning slow burn romance would be so lovely. I think college au for laishuro would be peak actually… Shuro so is the repressed "I am so normal" guy who has a furry liberation identity crisis arc… I also quite like the potential he’d have with Namari, as both work-oriented misfit foreigners cast out of their homes, and she’s also bolder so it’d be good for him, and he could bring her stability… That’s a topic for another day tho. Even he and falin are sweet tbh, they could have traveled around together even if just as friends… Bc yeah she does value him as a friend at least somewhat, she says she’ll visit him~! Mostly I want Izutsumi-Toshiro brotp fancontent.

Conclusion

The household is very hierarchy oriented, and honestly the system doesn’t seem to make anyone happy, or at least not healthily so. Sighh feudalism.

Obviously their situation are very different, but still Toshiro and Izutsumi react to the same conflict in opposite ways: when a hierarchy and lifestyle of rules and duty is thrust upon them, Toshiro obeys and believes that it’s how things simply are, always having it been drilled into him since being a baby and being privileged enough to live ok with things as they are, meanwhile Izutsumi rages and eventually breaks free and never wants to submit herself to rules or hierarchy ever again, even if that perceived hierarchy is a mutually beneficial professional party dynamic or having a role inside a well-meaning team, like Laios’ party. WHICH IS WHY THEY SHOULD HANG OUT AND HAVE AN ARC TOGETHER. LET HER INFLUENCE HIM TO GET WILDER AND THINK OF HIMSELF MORE. FUCK INHERITING THE HEADSHIP. THE SIBLINGS NARRATIVE.

As always if I find more stuff to add i’ll edit it in. Rn I’m thinking that I’ll look into ninja & samurai feudal history and try to find specific terms that might fit their roles and situations more. I should reread the first chapter with them to try and notice the hierarchy at play more, sigh, and Izutsumi’s end of the Toshiro-Izu dynamic as well.

Ah yes yes, I forgot to talk about it but we don’t know what Toshiro’s retainers have been doing with their time on The Island, especially while he was dungeon diving with Laios and co. Ah although in the anime’s ed in this shot we see them "stealthily" follow him around, so presumably when he’s not in dungeons they’re tailing his moves.

Afterword here, it has summary charts about the power structure & relationships and complementary pages and artworks, couldn’t put them in here because SIGH 30 pictures per post limit.

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ukrfeminism · 4 months

Text

Boys are watching violent porn on their smartphones then going on to attack girls, police have said, as new data showed children are now the biggest perpetrators of sexual abuse against other children.

Police data shows there has been a quadrupling of sexual offences against children, in what officers say is the most authoritative analysis of offending against youngsters.

The report from the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) said the offending by adults against children was usually more serious, but said they were alarmed by the growth of sexual offending by those aged 17 or under.

In one case a child of four was referred to police after allegedly using a smartphone to upload an indecent image of a sibling. Police declined to give any more details.

In 2022 a total of 107,000 reports were made to police in England and Wales alleging sexual offences against children, ranging from rapes and, in a quarter of cases, to the making and sharing of indecent images.

The NPCC said 52% of alleged offenders were children, compared with around one third a decade ago.

Police received reports of 14,800 rapes and sexual assaults against children aged 10 to 17 where the suspect was classed as a child, the overwhelming majority being boys.

Ian Critchley, the NPCC lead for child protection, said: “This is predominantly a gender-based crime of boys committing offences against girls.

“I think that is being exacerbated by the accessibility of violent pornography and the ease with which violent pornography is accessible to boys and, therefore, a perception that is [normal] behaviour, and that person can carry out that behaviour that they are seeing online in the most violent way against other peers as well.

“Clearly the accessibility to smartphones has just rocketed, not just in relation to 11- to 16-year-olds, but in relation to under-10s as well. That accessibility has really exacerbated that and I think this is a debate that does need to be had in our society.”

A third of attacks take place within the family, the most common setting for abuse, and eight out of 10 victims knew their attacker.

Police said it is estimated as few as one in six offences are reported to them.

Critchley said the clear-up rate – where someone is charged or cautioned – was 12% where a child is physically attacked and 11% for indecent images offences. The clear-up rate for child-on-child attacks is 15% for sexual assault and 12% for rape.

He said offences involving AI were already being reported to police. These include “nudification” where the photo of a person – usually female – is digitally stripped of clothing to make it appear as if they are naked.

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) announced it was increasing the capacity and raising awareness of its helpline through which adults can report suspicions about child abuse. The charity last month said it was taking 14 months for a defendant in a child abuse case to stand trial after being charged, placing a greater strain on victims.

Wendy Hart, the deputy director for child sexual abuse at the National Crime Agency, said about 830,000 adults in the United Kingdom are estimated to pose a danger to children. “The severity of offending has increased, as have the complexities faced by law enforcement in tackling it,” she added.

“We are now seeing hyperrealistic images and videos of abuse being created using artificial intelligence, for example, while the rollout of end-to-end encryption by technology platforms makes it a lot more difficult for us to protect children.”

#Articles #MVAWG #law

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transmascutena · 3 months

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what do you think about the incestuous relationships in revolutionary girl utena, and the root causes of the abuse? one of my favorite analyses I've read so far talked about how rape and incest aren't deviant, they are an extension of the patriarchal family unit. And do you have any thoughts/analysis about how it specifically manifests in RGU and the way the narrative communicates these themes?

It's so annoying the way some people act like the incest is just regular brother and sister complexes that's common in a lot of anime, and not an integral part of the show's themes about the Family fostering an environment ripe for abuse. The show treats these heavy themes seriously, and I wish I was smart enough to articulate my thoughts about Miki and Kozue, Anthy and Akio, etcetera. Hence, this ask.

Jsjsksks I know I sent an ask just yesterday about Revolutionary Girl Utena, but your analysis is so cohesive, and I really appreciate you bringing family/marriage abolition and amato-normativity into your analysis posts. It's very affirming to me as an aromantic asexual.

thank you so much! i will admit i also have a hard time putting my thoughts about these themes into words, because they are . a lot, so forgive me if this is a little rambl-y. but they are a huge and very important part of the show, so they're important to talk about.

i think i know the analysis you're talking about, and it's spot on. every kind of abuse we see in the show is a product of The System (patriarchy, the school system, the nuclear family, etc.) that's not to say that the abuse isn't purposeful, or that it doesn't often come from people choosing to do harm, but their ability to cause that harm is facilitated by these systems. for example, the system is not forcing akio to do what he does (although it is the reason he knows it will get him what he wants) it is just giving him the tools to do it effectively. abuse does come from people, but the systems are what makes the abuse so effective, and that's why we need to dismantle them.

this is something i've mentioned before, but a big part of why anthy was so trapped in her situation until the end, is because of the expectation to value family above all else, and to always love and forgive them no matter how they hurt us. and that is the reason why incest is so inherently toxic and abusive. it's not that it's "gross and unnatural" (such rhetoric really only serves to hurt and alienate victims anyway) it's that you cannot ever have a healthy relationship in a framework that tells you that you always have to stay with someone, and forgive someone, and love someone, no matter what. it doesn't matter if there's no age gap (seen in the kaoru twins) to create other kinds of power imbalances and it doesn't matter if they're not actually related by blood (seen in nanami thinking touga isn't her "real" brother, and in touga trying to use that against her.)

i've talked about how all this affects utena as well, and how even the state of not having a family makes you vulnerable to it, here.

it's not that siblings (or other family members) are more likely to be abusive people, but when they are, it is a lot harder to escape said abuse. leaving a regular abusive relationship is already incredibly difficult, but if they're you're family, it's even easier to fall into the mindset of "oh, but they really just want the best for me." when you've been taught that family is the most important thing in the world, leaving them is a huge decision. especially if you rely on them for material needs as well, like housing and food (which also happens a lot in romantic relationships and marriages.) there's also the way that with sibling incest in particular, especially if there isn't a big age gap, the victim will often be made to feel complicit in the abuse, either by their abuser or by society at large. like it's something "weird and taboo" that two people are doing together, rather than the abuse it really is.

that last part definitely manifests in the show, with the victim-blaming anthy recieves. from nanami especially. her desire to prove that she's "not like anthy" comes from an understandable place. she's dealing with figuring out that her feelings for her brother weren't what she thought they were, but it ends up with her putting equal amounts of blame on akio and anthy for the abuse she witnessed, even though there is a clear perpetrator (not helped by nanami already disliking and distrusting anthy.) it's clearest, i think, when she refers to them as "those perverted siblings" to utena.

it's funny (it's not) that this kind of thinking even manages to happen in the fandom itself. anthy is obviously not a perfect passive victim, and it's reductive of her character to say so, but the idea that she is as much an active participant in the abuse as akio is, is a take i have seen too many times for comfort. like, congrats, you fell for the exact kind of thinking that the show was trying to critique!

#there's a lot more i could say but i'll leave it at this for now. thanks for the ask i always appreciate an excuse to ramble a little #revolutionary girl utena #analysis #anthy #nanami #akio and anthy #asks #m #all girls are like the rose bride

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lovelyrotter · 4 months

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okay but i actually kinda wanna know ur take on stridercest being canon compliant O_O <- autism stare

oh hey i am also hitting you with the autism stare. ill try to get my thoughts down in a way that makes sense to more than just me hahaha

bear in mind that im an epilogue lover and i think Meat/Candy are really valuable pieces that further all of the characters and are also hard canon in the sense that we're looking at just 2 post-game universe outcomes out of an uncountable number (the book in the picnic basket representing post-canon fanfic). i think the characters actions in the epilogues make sense and are satisfying to me. yes even jane (i love alpha jane and i will not do her the disservice of 'cleaning her up' w/o showing her work for it. thats not how you depict a character who grew up with fascist programming). i could totally go on a whole tangent about this specifically but thats another post lol we'd be here forever and its also not stridercest

but okay. canon stridercest. under the cut cause it got kinda long

basically it has to do with the cherubs and how their relationships and mating rituals are pretty obviously incestuous leaning even though cherubs dont have the human concept of Siblings or blood family. the cherub who predominates will search across paradox space to mate with another cherub who closely resembles the cherub they predominated which is like textbook Freudian sexuality. theres a lot of Freud and Jungian stuff in HS imo even if im kinda [wobbly hand gesture] at the validity of these theories applied to real life and real people. but theyre super fun tools and lenses to use in fiction and i mean. gestures at all of dave

so the incest aliens cherubs. the whole reason why im talkin about them is bc Caliborn is so incredibly interested and invested in the Striders in particular. caliborn as both Lord English and Lil Cal shapes earth NOT OVERTLY but more so embeds himself in earth society, but again, the Striders lives in particular. dave is full of incest jokes. hes even apparently got a list of his friends arranged in order of how likely theyd incest-elope with each other (thank you epilogues for this amazing factoid). he seems to think about it often enough to, yknow, Do That. have a good solid think about that and construct an organized list about it. bearing in mind dave makes jokes about stuff thats a) bothering him, or b) generally camping out in his brain. hes not even really aware of it most of the time (as we see in one of the openbounds where hes all 'why am i thinking about puppets???' after seeing dirk for the first time in that dream bubble. he is thinking nonstop about dirk at that point and going off his only frame of reference for ANY dirk, which is his bro. his bro who was most likely deeply warped by Lil Cal)

sorry for the long blocky paragraph lol. but now onto the next thing

Caliborn as Lil Cal is the centerpiece in the beta strider apartment. dave cant escape him and beta dirk grew up with him. what the fuck do you do when youre childhood comfort item is also the most evil creature across all of paradox space? if youre a dirk you try to fight it. but how long can you keep fighting something like that. its safe to say that bro was affected by Caliborns particular brand of perversion and sfw kink. i dont think i have to say how insidious abusive and toxic he is about those things. and looking at the truth of beta bro (16yo alpha dirk) you can start to see just how warped beta bro became. beta bro is a false dirk (still a very Real dirk but not the Truth of dirk. beta bro has been toxified and made infinitely worse by an absolute evil influence over decades of life. in 80s fuckin texas. presumably in the system. anyone would be fucked up after that)

so for this analysis/theory im stating beta bro as a false persona. using jungian terms he is apha dirk's shadow

both dave and dirk live with a fake, carefully manicured version of their bros. they live with personas (or shadows of their guardians on the walls. hello platos allegory of the cave). they dont actually know e/o and they dont until the striunion

alpha dirk especially grows up embedded in the Public Persona Of Dave Strider 400 years post mortem and completely alone with unlimited internet access. hes a self admitted expert on his bro and we dont get to see a lot if any of his early childhood but i can hazard a guess at how much he clung to that persona of his bro. he fuckin idolizes dave. he LOVES dave. right off the bat he is in some kind of love with dave and i think if you try to argue against that then thats you slippin. i think youre a fool and have to reread homestuck because i wholeheartedly believe the striders loving eachother is part of the win state

once again this is speculation cause we get barely anything about alpha dave, but from what we already know about him im guessing this bro-persona is

achingly effortlessly cool

oozing masculinity (toxic or not, not really interested in categorizing that although toxic coolboy masculinity IS something the striders contend with & is an important facet in their lives)

a skilled fighter

a dedicated moviegoer (hes a director need i say more. this one is probably the only genuine thing about his on-screen persona)

and now lets look at jake. someone whos grown up on pretty much nothing but movies, whos doubtlessly been influenced by hollywood and its idea of gritty 'main character' masculinity through that, and who also clings to more old-school ideas of manliness (think victorian/edwardian era gentlemanly-but-loves-a-good-scrum kinda manly. moustache twirly with a monocle kinda manly. basically everything that grandpa harley is)

but okay lets look at what jake wants to be. lets take a look at his teenager persona

achingly effortlessly cool (his own 'hollywood star' kind of cool also def influenced by his favourite characters like lara croft who is indeed achingly cool. you see him succeed in inhabiting this hollywood star persona on earth c)

oozing masculinity (the old school manly mans-man kind)

a skilled fighter (two pistoles always. harder to aim cause you cant use a free hand to make up for kickback. that takes skill)

a dedicated moviegoer (again one of the only genuine parts about his persona. his questionable-to-wretched tastes aside. but bearing in mind that the SBaHJ movies are intentionally bad which is what makes them loop around to good. such is the nature of intentionally 'bad' art. jake fuckin lives in this perpetual bad-good art loop. okay enough with the art tangent keep focused man cmon)

because dirk has obviously way more contact with jake i dont doubt he sees through jakes own (admittedly way more flimsy) coolboy persona but the point still stands i think. different flavours but the same kinda guy. dirk has a type and i dont think its a stretch to say that hes looking for aspects of the bro-persona he grew up looking at in other boys, much like the winning cherub looking for the one they lost in the cherub theyll mate with

also wtf is with dirks obvious boner for dave chasing him across paradox space to decapitate him huh?? the last few sentences in Meat are about that very thing. he wants to fuc fight dave sooo bad. haha remember how the cherubic mating ritual is one of the most violent and long running spectacles in paradox space? i sure do

#stridercest #davedirk #dirkdave #alphacest #my t #thank you if you read all this HAHAHA #i am dedicated to my craft (autistic) (indulgent)

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cupcakeslushie · 9 months

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With the newest update, it's got me thinking a lot about Karai's role in this au. More on her actions and treatment of Leo and what lies in the future for her. It's been mentioned and made obvious that the "sibling" (i say in quotes since Karai doesn't even see Leo as an equal) relationship between Leo and Karai is nothing short on unhealthy and toxic. Thus, Leo learning what a real relationship with siblings is with the Hamato family. Karai wants to be the better soldier in the Shredder's eyes and seems to take any opportunity to bring down Leo. But something I keep thinking about is what happens to her after Leo has the emperyon removed and (along with the apocalypse future) after stopping the invasion. Basically, is there still a chance at some sort of redemption for her, or are her actions throughout the au unable to be forgiven. It's said that after Leo leaves the Foot, she tries to prove to Shredder that she didn't even need him to begin with and can handle herself just fine. The only time we've seen her act nice towards Leo is right after the session with Kitsune, where Leo is pretty out of it, but who's to say how often that happens. And then there's Leo himself and how he sees Karai after all that happens. Does he just try and forget about her, or does he hold any kind of resentment like Shredder. There's the question of whether he would be willing to forgive her for her actions. Though this isn't even taking into how Karai wasn't actually Shredder daughter but Splinter's instead.

I know that the answer to this is most likely spoilers, but I could into a whole character analysis on whether redemption is an option for Karai or if she's reached a point like Shredder. It would be interesting to hear you thought on what you can say. Though for the time being, I can wait to see what happens! Thanks for coming to my TedTalk, I hope you have a great day, and remember to stay hydrated! :D

Some of the future stuff is kinda spoilers, but I will say, she’s not a monster on the same level as Saki. She’s certainly not an angel, but she will have her own arc and we’ll see how the chips fall.

At the moment in the comic, Karai thinks seeing Leo fail is a necessary stepping stone to proving her own worth and she’s very bitter over Leo earning a commander title before her. Once Leo leaves, and she has most of Saki’s attention on her, she realizes that the Shredder will never be pleased, Karai starts to rethink her feelings toward Leo, and realizes how much she misses how they used to be. She also has no idea of Shredder’s full plan to create his own dark armor to imprison Leo.

In the past Karai, Usagi, and Leo were…friends (after a rocky start) for a very few short years. Usagi being probably the most distant, for the obvious reasons of hating Saki and the Foot Clan. But with Karai and Leo following him around, training together, and bunking together, he eventually stops taking his anger out on them, and becomes a reluctant participant in their childish hi-jinks. Unfortunately, that does not last long.

Around a year before Usagi manages his escape, Leo’s goofing around on a mission leads to Karai getting seriously hurt. As a result Saki punishes Leo so severely and Leo gets the crack on his plastron. Usagi goes to see Leo, but it’s like he’s a totally different person after that. Leo no longer smiles or jokes and takes training much too seriously.

Karai isn’t much better. She seems to meet Leo’s cold attitude with one of her own, and her teasing becomes much harsher and biting. They all grow distant and Usagi sees no other option but to try and escape. Usagi even extends his hand to Leo when the two cross paths, hoping that Leo would snap out of this strange, new personality he’s adopted, but when Leo doesn’t even react, Usagi turns and leaves for good.

Things get even more strained without Usagi around to act as mediator. The only time Karai allows herself to show she cares, are the moments after Leo’s sessions because he is so out of it. She assumes he doesn’t remember enough that she can be a little softer with him, and Leo usually never calls attention to those times, so who knows.

Once Leo spends time with his family, and sees how a healthy sibling relationship should look, he often wonders how things might’ve been different growing up in the safety of the Hamato Clan. When the family learns that Karai is actually their sister, Leo makes it his mission to save her from the Foot Clan.

#rottmnt #separated au #rottmnt separated au #rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles #rise of the tmnt #rise leo #rise karai #sep!au info dump #ew au #empyrian weeping au

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arcanarubinaito · 3 months

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MC & M6 Dynamics

Each section contains a mini-playlist with six songs. It’s followed by a general analysis of what I aimed for each playlist to convey when listened to.

A song they’ll sing to/with each other. (In Lucio’s case, specifically him to Auric.)

A song that summarizes the start of their relationship, post-death.

The dynamic from Auric’s POV.

The dynamic from the character’s POV.

An instrumental song that fits their current dynamic.

Bonus song.

Muriel’s playlist will have nine songs, in an attempt to encompass both where their dynamic is currently and where I aim to take it. I’ll show the pattern below using the numbers from above to show what each song is meant to represent.

(Present, first four songs)—2,3,4,5

(Future, last five songs)—1,3,4,5,6

Brothers.

It’s a term that both use without even needing to think about it. Family, siblings, so incredibly close that sometimes it takes Asra a moment to remember they weren’t always in each other’s lives.

Long before they lost half their heart, it already felt like it was missing. The experience forced a lot of their trauma and unresolved issues back into the forefront. They began retreating frequently once Auric was able to take care of himself, taking lengthy trips to get away from it all before it consumed them entirely.

Even without his memories, Auric still loved him. He looked up to him, depended on him. Frequently, Auric wondered if that was why Asra kept leaving—if Auric loved him too much and scared him away.

He stayed. Even when it was painful, sleeping all alone in the loft they shared. Auric stayed right where Asra left him, waiting for them to come back.

Can one still love when they feel so angry? Auric couldn’t figure it out. As time went on, the resentment would build up and all Auric would feel was guilt for it.

Love and care, soured by resentment and loneliness. Auric is finally pulling away, keeping things from Asra that he never did before. Asra wants to fix it, and they’re hoping to god it isn’t too late to do something.

Best friends; confidantes, even.

They knew each other before Auric died. They met at the wedding, and quickly figured out they had a bit in common. While they weren’t particularly close—they led very different lives and rarely had the chance to interact—they were still fond of one another.

When they met again, Nadia had been expected someone brighter and happier. That was who she met in her dreams after all. Instead, she was faced with an anxious, slightly irritable apprentice. And it felt horribly, horribly wrong.

She took extreme amounts of care to make sure Auric was comfortable at the palace. One of the smaller guest rooms, (mostly) practical outfits made from comfortable fabrics, she even incorporated foods into the menu that Portia recommended the average citizen of Vesuvia would enjoy.

Nadia found a unique confidante in Auric. It wasn't long before she confessed her memory loss, and now the two know they have something they share.

In many ways, they leaned on one another. For two people that felt lonely throughout the lives they remembered, there was nothing better than to encounter someone who knew how they felt.

Nadia wants to foster more trust between them. If ever Auric should need anything, Nadia will be right there for him to assist in whatever ways she can.

What else can they call themselves but family? Their relationship fluctuates, depending on their situation.

Meeting Julian for the first time was an… experience. But glimpses past Julian’s façade quickly revealed that he was desperate, not dangerous. Didn’t save him from getting smacked with a broom though.

Honestly the song dedicated to the start of their relationship is more or less just the vibes Julian gave off to Auric at first. Yes, it’s a Will Wood song. You can’t make a playlist without one, I don’t make the rules I just follow ‘em.

It would be a lie to say Julian didn’t have a healthy fear of Auric at first. That wasn’t what Auric intended, but he got a little intense and Julian didn’t know Auric well enough to realize that’s not how he is normally.

There’s a lot of running into each other because there’s a lot of following each other around. Auric tracked Julian down for the purposes of his investigation; Julian started following Auric around to make sure he didn’t run into trouble.

One thing they both could relate to is a longing for adventure and exploring. On top of that, the feeling that they had to stay behind for one reason or another, and in Julian’s case, the guilt that came from finally leaving and pursuing his interests.

These two keep each other in check. Both are impulsive and self-sacrificing; which means they’re perfect to keep each other from diving headfirst into something without thinking, or otherwise doing things they might regret. (Cough, cough, Julian nearly giving himself up to the guards so Auric could escape despite them both being in a very secure hiding place.)

Auric is yet another person Julian hopes can forgive him, for his past and for what he’s planning to do.

Best friends in that do everything together, giggling school girls talking about their crushes, going to the ends of the earth for each other kind of way.

They clicked faster than Auric did with Asra. Like the platonic version of falling in love at first sight. Auric found it incredibly easy to talk to Portia, and vice-versa.

See the thing is, they both love with their entire beings, absorb the stress of everyone and everything around them, and deal with it through borderline overworking themselves. It cancels out with each other. There’s no feeling like they have to prove themselves, and they can feel relaxed.

Auric hadn’t smiled like that in months. His cheeks hurt, his feet ached, but it was worth it to dance and let go of his stress for a couple hours with Portia.

It really just felt natural to talk to her. She was warm, sweet, and caring. Auric felt the most like himself, the most relaxed he had been in ages. That’s not to say he isn’t comfortable around the other M6, but they all carry stress or stressful situations with them that make it hard for him to really let go and unwind.

Boundless energy and curiosity. When Portia and Auric had the time, it was pursuing books in the library or exploring the secret passages. If their schedules didn’t line up, sometimes they’d use their time off to help each other out with whatever they were working on.

There is trust, but also secrets. And that is perfectly fine; they’ll tell each other in good time.

Once upon a time you could describe their relationship as friendly rivals. As a child, Auric often engaged in prank wars with the new Count.

Now they’ve become mortal enemies, their laughter and antics lost in the past. A small part of Lucio missed it, which spurred his actions a little; but whatever kindness and affection he might’ve had was swallowed up in anger and resentment during those three years.

Death was not kind. Or in Lucio’s case, the lack thereof. Three years allowed his anger and desperation to fester and rot, lashing out at anything that wandered into his abandoned wing.

Originally there was a sort of cat and mouse dynamic. It started when Auric first stepped foot into Lucio’s wing; taunting, chasing, even outright hurting Auric in his limited capacity. Auric didn’t remember him, which made it all the more frustrating for Lucio. Although slowly it became a point of interest.

Once he had his own body, his attention shifted away from Auric for a while. It returned swiftly once he completed his deals and he began to realize the little apprentice actually posed a threat. It’s at this point as well that Auric’s fear of Lucio transformed to full-fledged hatred. (Morga’s death was the catalyst.)

It didn’t help that The Devil and The Fool had their own issues going on, and that was beginning to influence things.

Blood will be shed because of their mutual hatred. But while Auric tries to keep it contained between them, Lucio frankly doesn’t give a fuck who gets caught in the crossfire.

They may have begun as strangers but they end up as partners.

Of course, the road to that point is long and slow when one can’t remember the other, and the other doesn’t like the first one.

Muriel barely knew Auric before he died. His opinion only really started forming after Auric’s resurrection; ‘The dead should stay dead.’ is what he told Asra. And he stood by it; he saw firsthand what trying to resurrect Auric did to them. And he saw the aftermath of it too, and how it changed his best friend.

The first time he properly met Auric post-resurrection, it was only because Asra needed someone to keep an eye on him the first time Asra took one of his trips. There wasn’t anything Auric did wrong in particular, but Muriel left with a sour taste in his mouth anyways.

Auric was afraid of him at first. The first several visits were like that; reactions of fear that never quite ebbed away. Muriel could deal with that, he was used to it. What really started to disturb him was when Auric began to slowly become more comfortable around him, despite the curse.

It’s not fear but it slowly developed into wariness. Muriel long discovered that his fear was not absent entirely; it remained attributed to whoever remembered him. And while Auric didn’t remember him entirely, something still did—something small, just under the surface. So whatever fear and anxiety Muriel was developing about the situation mimicked that.

Though to someone who lived a few years now with very limited fears, that was more than enough to trigger some avoidance and general distrust. Especially because he couldn’t control this; he had no say in whether or not Auric remembered him. And in that tiny, under-the-surface way, that was terrifying.

After this, he watched Auric only from a distance and very, very rarely would he interact with him. Warning him about the palace the morning Auric set out to see Nadia was the first time he had spoken to Auric in a good year.

… which was then subsequently followed by multiple interactions over the span of a week, and Auric’s slight recognition began to turn into vague familiarity.

To be honest, Auric was starting to freak out. He was insanely attuned to his own memory out of paranoia that he would lose it all over again; so it was very easy for him to notice all the missing ones. And it really didn’t help that they were cropping up more frequently.

Thankfully Asra returned and Muriel wasn’t needed anymore. And by the looks of things, Asra wasn’t going to leave for a while yet; good. Muriel wanted to put as much distance between himself, and Auric, and these weird feelings of slight fondness and concern as possible.

Asra asked him to stick around longer anyways. Auric was accepting only so much help from them, and they didn’t trust Julian to keep Auric safe and out of trouble either. Great, now he was stuck watching TWO people he didn’t like.

Muriel had to wonder just how much fortune hated him, for Auric to stumble across him that fateful evening in the forest. Sure, he was bleeding out from a gaping wound in his side and sure Auric unthinkingly healed him up and spent his magic reserves…

… and then they were traveling together…

… and getting to know each other…

… fuck.

Now he understood exactly what ‘butterflies’ meant. Now he knew a different kind of fear. Now he knew a different intensity to the fears he used to have.

His knee jerk instinct is to run away from it all when it gets too intense. But Auric didn’t really let him… which was surprising. And nice. Everything Auric did was surprising, mostly in good ways.

Whatever happens, they’re prepared to weather the storm together.

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jubileemon · 2 months

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Character Analysis: Byakuya Kuchiki

Captain Byakuya Kuchiki is a fan favorite, but his bad attitude typically gets him into a lot of trouble. Over time, we learned much more about Byakuya Kuchiki and what makes him such a great character after all. Byakuya redeemed himself and became a supportive brother and her after all, making him a real standout in Bleach. But in different parts of the story, Byakuya Kuchiki also showed his worst side, such as his negative personality traits or making ill-advised decisions.

His Background and Finding Love

Byakuya comes from the prestigious Kuchiki clan, one of the four noble families in the Soul Society. As the head of the Kuchiki family, he inherited the position of captain of the 6th Division. Byakuya's early life was marked by his dedication to the principles of the Kuchiki clan, emphasizing discipline and adherence to rules.

Byakuya's controversial decision to marry a commoner seemed like a bad idea, since he could potentially tarnish the noble Kuchiki family's name with this marriage. Even though the marriage was against Soul Society law, Byakuya went through with it anyway out of true happiness. The shrine with Hisana's picture serves as a heartbreaking reminder of Byakuya's enduring love and the profound impact she had on his life.

Adoption and His Treatment of Rukia

Byakuya adopted a young Rukia after the death of Hisana, fulfilling a promise he made to his dying wife. Byakuya's adherence to duty and tradition led him to adopt his sister-in-law , but the guilt of bending the rules strained their relationship.

The formal ceremony symbolized a turning point, integrating Rukia into the prestigious Kuchiki family. Byakuya's cold demeanor towards her stemmed from his duty as captain and the strict traditions of the Kuchiki clan. In an attempt to reconcile his actions with the expectations of the Kuchiki clan, Byakuya adopted a distant and cold demeanor towards Rukia. This behavior served as a coping mechanism to suppress his internal conflict, allowing him to maintain a façade of adherence to the clan's principles. His stoicism can also be seen as a form of self-punishment, as he grappled with the guilt of breaking the rules for the sake of someone he loved.

Believing that treating Rukia coldly would compensate for the unconventional adoption, Byakuya aimed to protect the honor of the Kuchiki clan and adhere to the Soul Society's rules. However, this approach inadvertently created a lonely and awkward environment for Rukia. Byakuya's misguided attempt to fulfill his duty resulted in a strained sibling relationship, depriving Rukia of the warmth and connection she may have sought in her new family.

Rukia serves as a constant reminder of Hisana for Byakuya Kuchiki. Hisana, Byakuya's late wife, pleaded with him to find and protect her younger sister before her death. By adopting Rukia, Byakuya fulfilled this promise, but the presence of Rukia became a living connection to Hisana. Every interaction with Rukia likely stirred emotions and memories associated with Hisana, intensifying Byakuya's internal conflict. The guilt of breaking the rules to save Hisana's sister and the responsibility of raising her as a Kuchiki created a complex dynamic. By treating Rukia distantly, Byakuya may have sought to suppress his emotions and maintain the façade of a stoic and duty-bound captain.

Rukia's Perspective

Rukia's perspective of Byakuya and his cold treatment, unaware of their familial connection, reflects the emotional complexity within their relationship. From Rukia's viewpoint, Byakuya appears distant and unwelcoming, making her integration into the Kuchiki family challenging. Without any knowledge of Hisana being her older sister before the reveal, she was left to interpret her older brother's behavior through the lens of his strict adherence to rules and societal norms.

Byakuya Upheld Rukia's Execution With Total Conviction

Despite his noble background, Byakuya's loyalty to the established rules took precedence over questioning the legitimacy of Rukia's sentence. His commitment to duty and the honor of the Kuchiki clan led him to defend Rukia's unfair sentence, aligning himself with the Soul Society's decisions.

Byakuya stood firmly by the Soul Society's decision to execute Rukia. His adherence to duty and the preservation of the Kuchiki clan's honor drove him to prioritize the established rules, even if it meant opposing characters like Ichigo and putting himself at odds with their efforts to save Rukia. As a member of one of the four noble families in the Soul Society, Byakuya was raised with a strict sense of duty and a strong emphasis on upholding the honor of his family and the traditions associated with it.

Saving Rukia

Despite his initial cold and distant attitude towards Rukia during the Soul Society arc, when faced with the threat posed by Aizen and Gin. This moment showcases a shift in Byakuya's priorities, as his actions go beyond mere adherence to rules that reflects a genuine concern for Rukia's well-being.

Hus disclosure to Rukia about Hisana's dying wish to protect her provides insight into his motivations and internal struggles. This revelation marks a turning point, humanizing Byakuya and shedding light on the complexities of his character. His sincere apology to Rukia, acknowledging the conflict between promises he made to Hisana and his parents, shows a significant step towards reconciliation and Rukia's acceptance.

#bleach #bleach rukia #rukia #rukia kuchiki #byakuya kuchiki #byakuya bleach #character writing #character analysis #male character #love #🩷#siblings #brother sister #anime thoughts #anime and manga #manga #manga analysis

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buckybarnesss · 5 months

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This is sort of an out of left field question- but what are your thoughts on Peter and Talia being half or step siblings?

Obviously, they don’t look alike very much. And clearly genes are funky things and this is not damning evidence. But I think it’s a very personal hc to me bc I myself have a half brother who I love very much, but it does influence our interactions.

One thing I constantly think about is Peter being an unreliable narrator. And what we see of Laura from his pov is different than Scott and Stiles finding her body. Is he imagining she’s blond and looks more like him? Yeah sure this could just be casting inaccuracies. But it feels very personal lol.

Has Peter always felt a degree of distance with his family? Where did the idea of him being Talia’s left hand come from? Wouldnt he have been there in the alpha pack flash back if that was the case? Was he younger than Laura? This also brings to mind Papa Hale (who I like to imagine was a human part of the pack/another pack before him and Talia were in a relationship). Was Talia always a Hale? Or married in?

Anyway, I have many thoughts and questions. But I really appreciate your analysis and insight. Joining a fandom past its prime (affectionate) is sort of like being in the apocalypse where 80% of the fandom is dead, and finding a ‘survivor’ is a miracle. Anyway, if you feel like it, I would love your thoughts on it all :3

if laura hale is my roman empire than talia and peter's relationship is my holy roman empire.

@dear-massacre and i talk about this quite frequently. it's a problem fam.

i do have a talia hale and peter hale and the hale family feels tags.

we don't really have any information other than some crumbs jeff has thrown us within canon.

in my opinion talia is the hale. there's no other option put forth. derek's father is such a non-entity that there's zero mention of him. the hales are clearly an old family of werewolves and were part of the very founding of beacon hills itself likely connected to the nemeton.

not to mention, season 3 has a lot to do with derek learning from and accepting talia's legacy and the legacy of the hale family. it also directly contrasts the argents. the argents pay lip service to being matriarchal but we know gerard has been calling the shots for decades whereas it seems as though the hales actually were.

so when you get down to it you can pretty much headcanon anything you want for how the exact specifics of how talia and peter are related but what we do know is talia was the older sibling and peter the younger.

peter doesn't actually talk about talia very much if at all. however, his monolog in monstrous is quite illuminating on peter's headspace while he was in a coma and pre-resurrection.

i predicted this. i told-i told talia this was going to happen... something like this was going to happen... i said that they were gonna come for us... " the argents, they're gonna come for us. they're gonna burn us to the ground-- burn us to the ground." did she listen? of course not! did anyone listen? they listened to her-- yes!-- say that everything was going to be fine. that we were all perfectly safe...perfectly safe... but she made us weak! she made us weak. and what happens to the weakest in the herd? they get picked off by the predators! we used to be the apex predators, until talia turned us into sheep.

with that said i do have my own ideas on their relationship given what we know. visionary is the episode that does the heavy lifting in the entire goddamn show in regards to this.

the age inconsistency comes from bringing back the younger actor from season 2 to play peter in visionary. it makes peter appear closer to derek's age than he actually is. i think it's almost part of peter's manipulations. it's his attempt to manipulate the audience as well just like he did lydia.

there's just simply no way talia hale didn't know about peter's everything. she was not only his older sister but she was his alpha. i think peter and talia may have been more similar than people want to believe.

peter is a lot of things. many of them contradictory. he loved his sister and clearly mourned her but that doesn't mean he didn't resent her just a little. he did still after all go with derek to retrieve her claws and i think there's something twisted up in him about how derek resembles her and begins to become more like her.

when you begin to sort of dig into what we know about the hale family the more one begins to question if talia was as benevolent as people assume she was. there's some seriously morally questionable things that occurred. talia did some shady things.

the real big one is that she coerced corrine into carrying her pregnancy with malia to term. the likely explanation is talia did this because she knew this would decrease corrine's power.

corrine is pretty explicit about this with what she says to malia:

you know, your real name isn't malia. you don't have a name. talia hale took you away from me before i could give you one.

and

corrine: i'm not going to stop, malia. i'm taking back what you stole from me. malia: i didn't steal anything. corrine: but you did. corrine: and I don't care if you're a willing participant or not. talia hale spent nine months trying to convince me of the miracle of childbirth. you know what it really felt like? a parasite. talia said it was a gift, that the coyote passes down part of her power to her daughter. she called it "beautiful." i call it "theft."

she also took peter's memories of malia's existence which considering peter's reaction doesn't seem like he had much say in. so in effect talia removed peter's agency.

she probably felt she had valid reason for doing these things. corrine was a threat and dangerous person but still it's really, really questionable. it still ended with malia's adoptive mother and sister being killed and malia going missing for years because corrine was vengeful over losing her power. talia was still alive when this happened.

of all people talia had to be aware of peter's -- you know -- everything and she probably held the leash. he wasn't a problem so long as she was the alpha and could control him.

talia also had to have been aware of and likely either approved of or encouraged him taking a mentor sort of role with derek. we see peter having a keen interest in derek in both visionary and the season 4 flashbacks.

like, who do we think ran off and told talia about what happened with derek and paige? who likely instructed peter on getting rid of paige's body and helping to cover up her death to protect derek and the family?

i actually fully believe she knew peter was skulking about the werewolf summit and may have even told him to do so.

talia is like the mona lisa smile of teen wolf. she's inscrutable but we get impressions about her and what she was like via the people that knew her. her children, her brother, her advisor and peers.

#my blog #thoughts on teen wolf #teen wolf #talia hale #peter hale #i really need to continue to sort my meta but it's so daunting #i write too much about this silly show

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lornaka · 1 year

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Thoughts on TBB s2 finale

Spoilers under the cut. Most of this is a compilation of thoughts I’ve previously expressed on twitter and discord so nothing new to some of you perhaps! Disclaimer: I still love the show with my whole heart and greatly respect the hard work of everyone who worked on it, so please don’t hate on the show in replies and comments to this post. Either keep it to relevant constructive criticism of the narrative and thoughtful analysis/discussion, or make your own posts, thanks

Idk I was just left.. hollow after s2 finale of tbb, like, there were no upsides/positive stimulating moments? It didn't leave me with an excited feeling for what's to come, more like "this is very bleak and miserable, I want s3 purely in the hope of it getting better somehow". I really was expecting some sort of catharsis from tbb s2 finale but got the complete opposite. It's a tell that something didn't work for me when I got no inspiration to draw anything tbh. S1 finale was confusing and not all that happy too but it left.. idk, something to be hopeful about, something affirming to it, amidst all destruction and separation. I wonder what s3 will look like with this sort of a cliffhanger. Unless they somehow resolve it in the first few episodes of the next season, the whole format would have to be changed, no more one-off adventures between the main plot heavy episodes etc. Regarding Hunter and his complete lack of emotionality and motivation outside of his relationship with Omega, at this point I seriously can’t tell if the writers are purposefully writing Hunter in a way that makes him come off as, well, failing as a brother and a leader. All I know is that after each finale, s1 and s2, I’m left with a desire for him to own up to his mistakes to grow. I love Hunter a lot and I enjoy flawed characters with good hearts. But when they mess up, I want the narrative to frame it such, and for them to grow from there. Otherwise it’s just inconsistent writing. At this moment, I feel like Hunter needs a “redemption” arc as much as Crosshair, as far as family drama and letting each other down goes. This is why I was so happy when it seemed like they’d finally go to rescue Crosshair specifically (welp.) They needed to do that imo, Hunter most of all, he needs to own up to leaving his brother behind once and for all and actually *do* smth about it. Was it understandable when they had to flee and couldn’t come back for Cross before they knew about the chips and arguably after? Absolutely. Doesn’t change the fact that Cross was left behind and got hurt, doesn’t make it better. So even if Hunter’s decision is justified, his lack of regret over his brother getting hurt in the process is not. I can see him repressing it all bc that’s Hunter, he is the king of repressing his emotions for the sake of moving forward, but his issues do not excuse him, and I want him to gain awareness and grow past these issues. And speaking of Crosshair. It’s so weird, structurally if nothing else, how the previous few episodes built up all these emotional stakes over Crosshair, specifically his withstanding intense torture from Hemlock meant to break him just to protect his siblings, only for the finale to completely drop the ball on it. Tech sacrifices himself on a mission he specifically urged Hunter to go on because “Crosshair is still our brother” and then Hunter is like “yeah let’s not waste Tech’s sacrifice and forget all about Crosshair, okay?”. It made no freaking sense. S1 finale left me confused & unsatisfied with the way characters reactions didn’t fit some of their previously stablished experiences and narrative arcs. S2 put things in perspective for me somewhat, so my best hope is that s3 does the same to resolve my confusion over s2 finale. When it comes down to basic story break down, the core theme of TBB gotta be either about a family coming together, or it is about a family separating, one way or another. Until s2 finale I was convinced it was about coming together but now.. “We don’t leave our own behind” seemed like a clear set up for the coming together theme. Now it feels almost like a misdirection, an ironic twist to subvert our expectations or mb to explore how old convictions/priorities of these characters crashed against new realities of life. And now that they’ll never truly be able to be a whole family again (allegedly), my hope for the main theme to circle back to a family coming together in a satisfying way has been critically diminished tbh. I think it could still work with someone dying, but def not like this. Even if everyone else survives and sticks together and Cross comes back, he’ll never have closure over Tech’s absence, for example. There will be no satisfaction for us as the audience in his brother’s sacrifice on a mission to save him, no pay-off. Then what is the point? A character death is a very powerful tool within the story, so when it happens, it needs to be done extremely right to hit the right emotional chords and not just cause frustration. What frustrates me, personally, is not the factual death of a character in the canon version of the events, but when the presentation and use of it makes no sense to me in the story but the writers are trying to sell it to me as if it should. Then I feel like I’m being emotionally manipulated and nothing makes me feel more betrayed tbh. I can come up with an infinite number of explanations for Tech’s survival. It’s incredibly easy to suspend my disbelief and just say “somehow he survived”. But if the creators themselves actively try to beat me over the head with their insistence that no, it happened and I should be sad over it, nope. That’s telling, not showing. If you want me to feel strong emotion, make me, don’t tell me that I’m supposed to be sad over a character dying just because you decided to kill them to make me sad. As for Tech’s status, the whole Schrodinger Tech situation is exactly the same as Cross’s chip in s1 finale. Everything in the narrative (Hemlock bringing his goggles is sus as hell, 100% reads as hints at him recovering Tech and then lying to Hunter to manipulate him) points to it being one way (Cross’s chip still affecting him, Tech surviving) but knowing the writers, my gut tells me it’s exactly what they say on the surface with their words and he’s gone. I hope I’m wrong because the way this death was handled is meaningless and closes so many possibilities, like I mentioned above with the family coming together in a satisfying way etc. It just doesn’t work for the story beyond cheap emotional shock value imo. So here we are. I decided to chill until s3 and hope things will make sense as the story progresses and the intentions of the writers become clear. Right now they sure as hell aren’t.

#the bad batch spoilers #tbb spoilers #plan 99

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destiel-wings · 10 months

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whats your opinion on the show (imo) making sam seem like he screws up a lot and that dean is the one cleaning up after him?

For the ⭐ spn analysis ask game ⭐

Oh, that's interesting to think about, thank you so much for asking!

Here's how i see it.

The whole base of the show is that Sam is the younger brother, and Dean needs to take care of him. That means protecting him, and in this life, cleaning up his messes, at all costs. Which is probably why they highlighted Sam's screwups, even making them more morale-challenging for Dean (I'm thinking of the whole demon blood storyline) just to show how far Dean would go for Sam.

When the show starts, the Winchesters' worldview is black and white: demons bad, humans good (which makes particularly interesting and smart the fact that they included the episode "The Benders", that early on, that subverts this certainty). Anyway, the more the show progresses, the more Dean finds out about Sam's powers, putting him at supernatural-beings-level, and this is the first time in the show where, in the current events, Sam thinks he's letting Dean down. But nonetheless, Dean's first priority is to protect him and help him.

And that's the base of their dynamics, that they were still carrying from their childhood: Sam, being the youngest, needs Dean to clean up his messes, taking care of him practically (even if he's perfectly capable of cleaning up after them himself most of he time), while Dean needs Sam emotionally, because he desperately needs love and the family that was taken away from him the moment his mother died and everything fell into pieces. I think that's a great part of the tension that charges the codependency between the brothers.

That said, Sam didn't really need Dean to protect him at the beginning of the show, he was actually fine by himself, doing just fine away from home. The show starts when the supernatural comes into their lives (Sam's life, with Jess' death) again, and Dean steps in to do what he knows how to do, better than Sam.

And the show plays on that for a long while, having Sam become "a problem" (his powers, the demon blood), so that Dean can be needed and attend to his caretaker job, getting to keep Sam around.

But here's the thing: where it gets even more interesting, in my opinion, is seeing how as the show progresses these roles begin to shift and reverse.

At the beginning of the show Dean is supposedly the one who's most similar to John and who wants to fight for the "family business", and Sam doesn't need any of this, and he doesn't need Dean. But as the show develops it becomes clear that Sam is the one who's actually more similar to John (sorry Sammy), and as the brothers embrace the life and the seasons advance it becomes clearer that Sam enjoys this life way more than Dean.

After all the messes he's made in the first seasons of the show, Sam becomes more desperate to make amends towards Dean.

"It was how many times i let you down"

And it's not surprising that this shift in dynamics happens right in s8, after they have been apart for a whole year (while Dean was in Purgatory) and they spend the entire season trying to reconcile their relationship. Here we can finally see a Dean who needs Sam a little less, because he's lived without him for a year and he's found Benny, who plays the role of a possible replacement (narratively). For the first time we see a jealous Sam struggling to regain Dean's forgiveness and trust--more precisely, struggling to regain his first place as Dean's shotgun. Unsurprisingly, this shift happens as Cas becomes more important to Dean too.

Dean had always struggled to create real connections with people, but as the seasons go on, he learns to do that, they find a family, and so Sam isn't the only person to give and receive Dean's love and affection. But Sam is the younger sibling, so he always took Dean for granted (it's not his fault, it's what younger siblings generally do), which is why it was so refreshing to see him realize it wasn't that granted. And that's the moment where Sam actively begins to show how much he needs Dean's love as well. Because if you think about it, aside from the found family they share (like Bobby, Jody, Charlie, Garth etc) at some point Dean actually begins to have more people than Sam's (Cas, Benny, even Crowley, just to drop names).

And I love how this season is immediately followed by the mark of Cain storyline, where we finally have Sam trying to save Dean for a change.

I think that's a big step of growth for the character, where he gets to wear the older brother's shoes and get to be the caretaker for once, and really fight for Dean as he had been doing for him until that point.

I think Sam screwed up way less after that, and it checks out with the new dynamics of their relationship: Sam has grown up more, and he doesn't need Dean to save him all the time, he can save Dean too, he's more than capable of it, and more importantly, Dean sees it. As Dean gets to develop new important relationships of affection with other people (larger found family, and Cas), he needs Sam just a tiny little less. And so he starts to see him less as a job and accepts that he can take care of himself too, and basically that whole dynamic of Sam screwing up and Dean cleaning up after his messes becomes obsolete in the show, and is less evident. They both screw up. They both clean up after each other's messes.

And beware, I'm not saying that Dean loves Sam less, just that he needs him less. I'm talking about the toxic codependency, that was actually healing and transforming into a healthier relationship (until the finale did what it did).

In later seasons Sam is portrayed more like an adult, we see him leading a group of hunters, and we see Dean seeing him do that and letting him take the lead, we see him be a father to Jack (finally taking on a caretaker's role as Dean had done for him), we see him threaten and fight God himself, and we see him search for his own path, between the hunter's life that he actually loves (unlike Dean) and even Rowena's witchcraft, to some extent. And we finally see him having a meaningful love relationship again, with Eileen.

I am actually so proud of Sam and of how far he had come. Things could've been so great for him, if we hadn't had that horrible finale. We always say that Dean's ending was bad, and it is, but I honestly don't get people who say that Sam had it better, just because he survived. He's the one who got it worse actually. All of his development... gone. All of those promises of the happy life he could've gotten... gone.

He spent a whole life building a life that wasn't important (and i say that because that's how the episode framed it, and i could make a whole other post about this explaining why) just missing his brother after having lost everyone else he's ever loved. That's just horrible, especially when the show had made clear that the blurry wife life maybe wasn't what he really wanted after all.

***

Again, thanks for the ask, feel free to send more!

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oceanic316 · 1 year

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A very short analysis of all* the dads and daddy issues on lost

*Considering every character that was a main character

Daniel

Charles widmore- complete sociopath in many ways, only met Daniel when he was an adult to manipulate him into going to the island on which he would be killed by his mother which Charles witnessed

Boone

Split up with his mother at some point, was clearly left with a nanny frequently enough to kill her, definitely has unresolved issues with his dead stepfather as he fell in love with the stepsister

Miles,

Very obvious dad issues from being raised without him present. Did get to meet him but he was a bit of a dick tbh. I guess he did love him but too little too late

Michael

Little known about his dad but only his mum was looking after Walt off island. His role as a dad could be interpreted as daddy issues

Ana Lucia

Deffo has mommy issues but the lack of clear father figure points to possible daddy issues as does her time with Christian

Charlotte

Goes to shithole island to try to discover her father who was never there. Clearly has daddy issues regardless of her fathers (unknown) quality.

Frank

Has issues but there’s every chance they are NOT daddy issues. Good for him

Shannon

He’s dead and his widow is a terrible stepmother. Daddy issues up to here-may have contributed to her sleeping with her brother

Desmond

He had to raise his siblings so this points again to an absent (at the very least emotionally) father. Daddy issues

Eko

Had to raise his brother suggesting a largely absent father who wasn’t around much

Kate

Blew up her real father due to his general terribleness, her stepfather was in the army so probably has issues over him not being around all that much even though he seems like an alright guy

Jack

Jacks daddy issues regarding Christian are basically a main plot point of the show and even made it into the finale. Points to Christian for feeding into a lot of the characters daddy issues

Sawyer

Dear Mr Sawyer… probably the nastiest daddy issues, doesn’t really get much worse than murder suicide with your kid under the bed. All of sawyers bad bits are due to his daddy issues. Also has daddy issue ties to Christian and Anthony

Locke

Attempted murder was a pretty bad look from Anthony as was the kidney theft. Anthony traveled across the world giving kids daddy issues left right and centre, despite only Locke being shown as his biological kid

Ben

Skeletor was not a great dad and is a key reason captain bunny killer is so messed up. Also bens habit of adopting children (Ethan, Alex) is likely linked to his own crappy upbringing

Sayid

His dad the war hero gave him some toxic masculinity problems, sayid not killing a chicken is our only main clue but it was pretty dark

Libby

Like everything involving Libby’s past, her parents are a big mystery. She does have dead husband issues?

Sun

Mr Paik for sure messed Sun up. His treatment of Jin and his general murdery tendency affected sun not only as a child but also screwed up her marriage

Jin

Jins dad is the nicest guy on the list, but jin had intense daddy issues due to his shame and being raised by a single father.

Claire

Christian really putting it out of the park here! Being the result of an affair involving an American doctor cannot have been fun and his absence in her life probably didn’t help with her wanting to give Aaron up. Also may have contributed to her not trusting Charlie that much

Hurley

David Reyes is an asshole, but he’s a pretty run of the mill, leave my family and don’t come back til there’s money, but he made the most effort to fix things. Hugo has big daddy issues tho

Juliet

Pretty standard daddy issues but her parents divorce clearly stayed with her and led her into some pretty unhealthy relationships later on in life

Charlie

Charlie’s dad seems like quite a nice guy if I’m honest but his older brother messed him up enough I’m happy to say Charlie has something very close emotionally to daddy issues

Richard

Too much of an enigma for a strong analysis but imma go out on a limb and say yes

Bernard

I don’t think so?

Rose

She seems pretty well adjusted so I think no

Vincent

Everyone on the island has been his dad at some point- probably missed Walt his original dad a lot

#lost #lost tv #lost abc #lost show #daddy issues #Christian shepherd #jack shephard #john locke #kate austen #daniel faraday #boone carlyle #miles straume #desmond hume #james sawyer ford #hugo reyes

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i-love-hot-men-in-video-games · 4 months

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I did a character analysis on John Seed

As we know, John is the baby brother of Jacob and Joseph. He is also the Baptist of Eden's Gate. We know he's pretty wealthy, judging by his appearance, as well as the ranch he owns. But what do we not know about John Seed?

In the Book of Joseph and in-game, we get bits and pieces of John's past, but we never really get the full-scale of it all. we also never get John's point of view. But with everything I've gathered, we can try to see John as a person and know more about his personality.

CHILDHOOD

Before the separation of him and his brothers, John was a happy, go-lucky, loving, caring kid. John would've been the type of person to pick flowers for a pretty girl, or he would've given or even made gifts for those he cared about. If you were crying or were upset, he would've tried to comfort you. Unlike his brothers, John wailed out in pain when he was being beaten, yeah sure we could say that it was because John was a young child, but even before John was born, Joseph used to be beaten and not even flinch when he was a child. This gives us the hint that John is (or was) very sensitive to pain. After he was separated from his brothers, John was adopted by a wealthy, and highly religious family known as the Duncan's. Right away, the Duncan's believed John's soul to be riddled with sin. There is a theory backing this up. John Seed...is left-handed...here's why it makes sense. In Christianity, being left-handed is seen as evil by most, "as those who 'fall from God' are sent to his left hand side (Matthew 25:32-33). The fallen go to the left. Jesus sits at God's right hand side." Being left handed has also been associated with black magic, many left-handed people are still forced to use their right hand because of this superstition. The Duncan's probably thought John was a normal, innocent child at first. People as highly religious as the Duncan's more than likely wouldn't have adopted John otherwise. So what probably happened was that soon after John was adopted, he was probably working on his homework, writing with his left hand, and that's how the Duncan's found out. In the Book of Joseph, Joseph mentions that John was told 'every movement meant temptation' which sounds vague but makes a lot more sense if those movements were done with his left hand. For the most part, John uses his right hand if he's using them consciously. Subconsciously or even unconsciously, he uses his left. Hurk points out that John's lettering is terrible when tattooing. Hinting that John had his left-handed dominance beaten out of him. John's own tattoos are shakily done, further backing up the left-handed theory. Examples from the game are;

Using his left hand on Hudson's throat during his broadcast.

Gripping the Junior Deputy's wrist with enough strength to keep them there, despite the fact that he's dying at that point.

He uses his left hand on his chest to make circular movements...twice, (once in his broadcast, another in his bunker when we talk to him after escaping our confession.) Both times he talks about sin. This hints that John being left-handed is one of his many sins.

Some of the promo art for John shows him using his tattoo gun with his left hand.

Because John had been told that he was riddled with sin his whole life, he developed an obsession with atonement. With proving himself to be free of sin and worthy of love. Also the struggle he seems to have with his two personas. With that, we have God in the center (The Duncan's), John Duncan on the right, and John seed on the left.

And one more thing to note, all of John's sins are tattooed on his left hand.

So with that knowledge, John was tortured and severely interrogated by his parents, he was even sent through many fundamentalist pastors, most likely John was sent through a type of conversion therapy to fix his hand dominance. Out of all of John's siblings, he went through the most psychological abuse.

As John was going through interrogation, he had to confess any and all sins he committed, after a while, John learned that even if he had nothing to hide, he would have to make something up to try and lessen the beatings, but no matter what John said or did, he would be beaten anyway. John Learned how to disguise himself with what others wanted to see. With this he became extraordinarily skilled at manipulation and has used it to acquire info about people to use it for his own advantage.

TEEN/EARLY ADULTHOOD

John graduated high school as Valedictorian and attended a prestigious east coast law school. This heavily hints that John went to Harvard, I mean what other Prestigious East Coast Law School is there besides Harvard? John graduated at the top of his class, and given John's age and how long he's been a lawyer, it's most likely that John graduated Harvard very early, showing us that John is incredibly intelligent.

Let's take a step back though. Statistically, children that grow up in an abusive or even neglectful homes typically have very poor grades, so what does this say about John? Well all John ever wanted was to be loved and be worthy of love, so I think John believed that if he strived academically, then his parents would finally be proud of him and start showing him love, but alas, John's parents passed away sometime in his early adult years, never granting him that opportunity. I believe John grieved after his parents death, but not for the fact that they passed, but for the fact that he didn't make them proud and now he never will.

After John graduated is when it is believed that the Duncans passed and John inherited a small fortune and became one of the fastest rising lawyers in Atlanta, specifically, John is a real-estate lawyer. Overtime, John became incredibly wealthy and developed all sorts of connections, portraying himself as a physical sign of success. Although John was wealthy, strikingly handsome, successful, intelligent, and well-liked, John actually hated himself and society for what it had done to him and his childhood, and even wished for its destruction.

John had written a note titled "My New Father", it talks about how he feels about Joseph and himself.

"I feel like I've been born again; given a second chance at life. I have a father who loves me. I've never known such love. On the outside, I met the requirements of a well-adjusted adult. But inside, that was a different story. Inside you found a tormented boy, damaged and afraid. Rejection and fear controlled my life then. Today, it is acceptance and love that drives me forward."

The context of the note show us that John most likely suffers from Avoidant Personality Disorder.

After a while, John had given himself up to unholy pleasures and became addicted to drugs and sex. In the Book of Joseph it mentions that cocaine was passed around at parties that John himself had hosted. Therefore hinting that John was addicted to cocaine.

When Joseph contacted John, he was working as an associate at a major law firm, undertaking the redevelopment of his childhood neighborhood in Rome. After finding each other, John joined Joseph and found Jacob at the Veteran's Center. John undertook the roles of the Confessor, the Baptist, and the Public Face of Eden's Gate.

PRESENT DAY

Upon arriving in Hope County, John used his fortune to buy up land and property throughout Holland Valley without hassle and quickly became acquainted with the legal system in Montana.

DESCRIPTION

John is described differently by many people. Some say "he's a funny man, but not the 'haha' type of funny." Others say he's a 'creep' and that he has 'a creepy smile'. One person had said that "there's no soul behind those eyes", John has also been described to have a "very intense gaze".

Adelaide is very attracted to John. She makes many lewd comments about him such as "he is bangable as he is crazy", "he's on my 'any hole' list", "bet John gives the best spankings", "killing him would be a waste of a perfectly good set of buns", that she wouldn't mind letting him "harvest her valley", ect. She likes his coat, so much so that she says she wants to see xander in it with nothing on underneath. She is also jealous of his ranch. She also says that he's playing a "strange game" with the Deputy and thinks he might be in "some kind of love" with them.

Charles believes that John has an inferiority complex, and that out of his entire family, he understands John the least, saying that he should've been a wall street megalomaniac instead of a baptist.

Dutch warns the Deputy that "John doesn't make empty threats". Dutch has already saved multiple people from John's Cleansings. He calls him "little ole Johnny" at one point.

Grace believed that she would be the one to kill John and says she hopes she will never forget the sight of his plane falling. Maybe she'll get it tattooed on her one day> According to her, "the more you ruffle his feathers, the angrier he gets" because "he can't deal with embarrassment" or "being made to look bad". She calls his ranch "Hypocrite Center". She thinks he's "too much of a fucking pussy" to come and get the Deputy and their companions personally. After his death, she believes he is in Hell.

Hudson is disappointed she didn't get to see him die. She recalls that, when the Deputy fled the bunker after the Confession and even though he didn't say anything, it was obvious John thought he had failed. She adds, things then got 'worse', as if he was trying to prove something to Joseph. She is for "instant death penalty" for people like him.

Hurk Jr. suggests that, since John believes in the "Power of YES", screaming 'yes' at him several times should force him to leave them alone. He hopes he would at least act like it did something to him. He says "Johnny boy" wants to invite him in his bunker but that he invites John to "kiss [his] entire asshole" instead. He also comments he is "lusting for a dogfight" with the Deputy before humorously suggesting dogfights probably turn John on. He says he is glad he died because he never learned proper lettering or font techniques so his tattoos looked terrible.

Jerome thinks he is 'cruel & selfish'. He was once kidnapped by him and forced to confess. He still seems shocked he said what he said... He was then beaten and left for dead in the woods. He thinks John enjoys making people suffer, that he is 'a con-man', that he just "seeks glory and riches", and that he "immersed himself in a sea of self-aggrandizement". Long ago, he asked John what was driving him and says that, while he gave him many answers, all of them were lies.

Jess calls him "a piece of shit", maybe the worst she's ever met. She says he had his ranch built just for him and that he likes to scare people with his plane.

Kim says he once sent his men to try and pressure her into selling their property when nick was away. One cultist got too close and she broke his nose. They tried to have her arrested after the incident but Merle helped get a restraining order.

Larry calls him an 'unsavory fellow'.

Mary May says he is "one son of a bitch". She remembers the first time he set foot in the Spread Eagle and how he looked at her, like she was 'a meal'. The day he gave her a tattoo, she says he made her wait half a day in a room before eventually letting her go without harming her.

Merle says he isn't superstitious but he still asks if someone put a stake through his heart when he died, just in case. At one point, he calls him "John Fuckface Seed".

Nick says John stole all the baby equipment people had given them and that John said his sin was Greed. Nick disagrees because he just wants to support his family and it's not a sin.

Sharky says he knows pressure points that can make people feel immense pain. Like Adelaide, he thinks John is sexually attracted to the Deputy and that they should "just fuck and get it over with". He loves to make fun of him, saying he is the type of guy to masturbate in front of a mirror and to marvel at his facial expressions, that he is "like that little brother who gets farted on", joking he got 'the clap' so many times he was "diagnosed with a standing ovation", calling him "old Johnson", ect.

Wendell thinks he would fit in well in Washington because he is a Charismatic liar.

Zip believes his "athiest masters" use his bunker for "sexual rituals".

NPCs say the key around John's neck is the only key to the deeper parts of his bunker, where the people they kidnapped are locked. Apparently, John calls it "the Key to Paradise". They warn the deputy he always gets what he wants, one way or another, that they can't run from him, and that every time you meet him, you come away with scars. They seem surprised he insists on catching the Deputy alive. He bought most of the businesses in the area but gave jobs to the cultists only. They imply he made it illegal to hunt in Holland Valley. One civilian wonders if he has a big book with everyone's name in it and if he will come for them personally. When he Marks someone, he then sends them a video. They think one of the reasons why he almost drowns people during the baptisms is because it's "a power play". According to them, his bunker is the cult's pantry and the only way to get in is to be "invited". John wants people to say "yes" but someone thinks he likes it when people say "no" because it gives him "an excuse to get mean". He has reportedly always been obsessed with the people of Fall's End, and especially with Mary May. He and Eden's Gate wanted Nick's plane and they didn't like it when he told them to "fuck off". People say Hudson is tough and it will be difficult for John to break her but they also say he "loves a challenge"... One man who had to confess says he manages to make people say things they didn't want to say. After seeing his ranch, a lot of civilians think he has awful taste in interior decorating and that he has "the worst case of younger sibling syndrome". they have ever seen. A woman explains he likes to "throw his weight around" while another says he has "scars that run deep" and that, deep down, maybe he wants to die.

They say he is relentless, a "rapaticious thug", a "Psychopath", a "Pestilence", a "Pissant" (compared to Jacob), a "Sadistic Cat", "the runt/baby of the Seed Family", a "goddamn pussy", a "human toilet", a "bully", a "snot-nosed fearful little shit", a "bona fide nut job", a"control freak", "such a neat freak it's inhuman", a "little punk", "super emotional", someone with a "singular mind" (the one of a serial killer), that he has an aggressive/creepy grin and a scary look on his face. They hate him but seem less afraid of him than they are of Faith and Jacob. Some even talk about "descrating his corpse or his sepulture" (they don't say such things about the other Heralds).

A few people believe he is just Joseph's puppet and no better than his dog. One woman thinks he never had Joseph's full confidence, unlike Faith. They say John sees his brother as a father and they hope that because of the Deputy's actions, Joseph will be ashamed of him and even "disown" him. It seems Jacob always tried to look out for him.

COMMENTS ABOUT THE OTHER CHARACTERS

John calls the Deputy to tell them Jerome is "selfish and misguided" and that his followers wouldn't have left him if he were "a true man of God".

He says the Deputy is "a murderer and a coward", and comments that they don't seem to give "a second thought to killing". According to him, their sin is Wrath. He claims he "personally" knows the feelings that drive them and can help them wash away their sins. He desperately tries to make them understand they are not on the right path and, while he admires their will and tenacity, he seems sad they refused to listen to him and didn't care about what he tried to say.

Wow, a lot to unpack here. So most of the comments are negative, even a few of the cult members had some negative and odd things to say, but what can we gather from these comments?

Well... to the Eden's Gate members, he is an odd man and seems very creepy, but why?

John is a very lustful man with a lot of Wrath and Lust within him. It seems that John and other Eden's Gate members have a lot of sex considering that people have said that his home smells funny and people claim that they have sexual rituals in his bunker. Many comments have been about how John gets "turned on", by dogfights, forcing people to confess by hurting them, that he loves to put up a fight and deal with challenging people. John knows pressure points that cause immense pain, is skillful with a knife, and that he's playing games with the Deputy. John, I believe was once secretly part of the BDSM community, given the fact that causing pain excites him and that he knows where the most pain is caused, only those of the BDSM community know where those are and to either avoid it or use it for pleasure. He almost drowns people during baptisms as a "power play". Also when John gets done with Nick during the 'Atonement'... he is literally MOANING as he's cleaning himself off, NEED I SAY MORE!?

When it comes to upsetting John, it's best not to as he's known for fulfilling his threats, so don't take him lightly. He seems to get angry a lot to hide his embarrassment, he also seems to scare people using his plane as leverage, he does all these things simply to scare people and not actually harm them, but it seems he also uses it as leverage and seems to always win. There are many mean and terrible things said about John, even the fact that people hope Joseph will disown his own brother. But there is so much about John that is well hidden until you start to dig...

First of all, it's blatantly obvious John has a big crush on the Deputy, from the way he looks at us for a second after he lifts us out of the water after almost drowning us, to when he has to pause before turning around to meet our gaze in the bunker, to the wedding theme before the 'Atonement' at the church.

I'm going to further elaborate on John's behavior in the bunker. When John has to pause before looking at us, it seems he's trying to prepare himself and keep his cool, you know, "like omg my crush is right here, act cool." When John slams down the industrial stapler to look at us... his hips sway and he stares with admiration in his eyes. When he comes up to us to assemble his tattoo gun, he slows down his speech as he stares at the Deputy's chest, he was lost in thought for a moment, most likely because he was probably thinking what we would look like without a shirt on. He also rips open our shirt to look at our chest, before looking back up at us, and down at our lips for a split second before looking back up at our eyes. So yeah, John has a very OBVIOUS huge crush.

John is rarely understood, many people just call him sadistic and crazy, but deep down, John is a scared child who has been starved of love and affection (this is why he represents Famine), and perhaps even genuinely cares about people and the Deputy.

I'll elaborate and it might take a while...

stay tuned for part 2

#john seed #farcry5

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