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seventh-fantasy · 5 months

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friendships as marital ties (and other notes on relational ties) in mlc

this is sort of a third installment in the series of meta on 'mlc as an exemplar of constructing queer narratives out of chinese ideological frameworks' (1. jianghu as queer space and 2. how it manifests in li xiangyi) - focusing on the nature of relationships in it. (which I've briefly mentioned in the first one and finally actually getting to it!!)

I would like to first call attention to chinese ideological frameworks as a premise of queer reading in mlc. the goal of chinese philosophy is to explore the becoming of human, taking two broad paths of the (mainstream) secular vs. escaping the secular. (these two paths are not a strict dichotomy, and rather, are ever in flux and in conversation with each other.) as said by @markiafc too, chineseness is so much about the rigidity of structures, and in equal part, a desire to break out of them. thus, chinese ideological frameworks can very much offer a rich reading of queerness - that mlc, a story very deliberately structured based on chinese ideologies (more accurately, with good reasons for me to believe that it is as such), has managed to materialise.

if the conceptualisation of queerness is premised on a defiance against mainstream norms, then a reliable way to read queerness in chinese ideological frameworks can be to deconstruct it by the mainstream confucian frameworks.

in mlc, this is implicitly set up with its stage of wulin/martial jianghu. then it is further broken down by asking, hey wulin jianghu is still closely related to the hegemonic values and the mainstream structure of authority (historically, 侠 xia being politically involved says a lot about this), so what is the true meaning of jianghu? what does it then really take for jianghu to be a queer space offering comfort and freedom to those who have escaped to it - to be the space that allow the transcendence of rigid roles and labels? mlc took a step further to resist the proxy to mainstream values that wulin jianghu has become.

this is why there can be a very strong buddhism reading of mlc (suggested here, expounded in the A+++ meta by @markiafc here and here, and also what I've seen discussed by cnet as well), given that buddhism is one of the 'extra-secular' ideologies, alongside (philosophical) taoism. I've also touched on a taoist angle in this meta. both schools are articulated in different sets of languages, but ultimately convey a same ideal of what it means to be human and how to live well - that is, to resist the roles and labels defined by the norms.

so, back to confucian frameworks.

a lot can be discussed about mlc with it. but in the context of this meta about relationships in mlc, it's specifically drawing on how confucianism conceptualises social relationships with familial ties as a cornerstone, and how these relational ties are inextricable from the conceptualisation of the 'self'.

as such, one of the things about mlc that has fascinated me is how deliberately it seems to ignore and reject the conventional familial ties (the kind by blood and marital ties). I've joked about how it is a miracle for me to love mlc as much as I do, as a prime dysfunctional family story enjoyer, despite none of its main characters struggling with any complicated feelings about their (biological) parents. but on closer examination, mlc is also making a comment on the model of familial-based relationships that dominates mainstream society - but through the absence of it.

with this, I want to talk about 1) how mlc rejects the conventional ties; and then 2) how it repurposes these ties in its own ways.

the five relational ties in confucianism:

father and son 父子有亲 - (natural) affection between father and son

ruler and subject 君臣有义 - righteous relationship between ruler and subject

older and younger brothers 兄弟 (长幼有序) - this is actually about seniority within the family; the order between older vs younger family members

husband and wife 夫妇有别 - differentiation between husband and wife (demarcated by the 内外 spectrum of gendered inner-external spheres)

friends 朋友有信 - trust between friends

logically inferred, all these ties are hierarchical and familial-based except for the last one: friends. ruler-subject is sort of an extension of the natural familial ties, while friendship is the inverse space of 1-4 (ie. you fall back on 5 to define a social relationship outside of the familial sphere that cannot be qualified as 1-4). while all are premised on mutuality, it is only no. 5 that is defined by a sense of choice and equality.

on the surface, 1-4 don't quite exist in mlc in particularly meaningful ways to the narrative or are even outright overlooked, and friendship is the relational tie most valued by mlc. we can tell it's true just by looking at the most meaningful relationships in mlc of difanghua. but at the same time, it is more nuanced. we can take a closer look at how the story plays around with most of the ties as part of a broader queer narrative.

1) how mlc rejects the conventional ties

mlc's rejection of mainstream relational ties can be best seen in fdb escaping from marriage. and it was not just any engagement with anybody but an engagement with the imperial family. he struggles with the prospect of being married to princess zhaoling, but generally, it's about the idea of complying to mainstream conventions and expectations that includes compulsory heterosexuality. all these point not only to a defiance against amatonormativity - the resistance of the traditional husband-wife tie, but also an irreverence for the ties of ruler-subject (the engagement being an imperial decree) and father-son (matters of marriage being sole decisions made by parents).

of course this is on top of how fdb's own biological father is a p-o-s, and the narrative gives fdb minimal struggles in this aspect, allowing him to sever this tie without looking back (I love it, yeap). along the same line is how lxy is an orphan, who came to gain important relationships that are built on natural compassion among people rather than innate, blood-based ties - even as llh. the sense of defiance from the narrative is especially stark to me considering that he could have a completely different familial-based life - as a son, brother, and ruler, if his biological family was still around. the narrative also deliberately treats his biological brother as a phantom, replaced with an older brother who he was bonded with neither by blood nor marital ties. on dfs's front, absolutely nothing is to be known about his biological family. his childhood history with the toxic patriarch of his life - who is not even his biological father - was afforded a clean break and closure.

we can keep going on, but that's pretty much the point.

ritualisation is one of the most important things of the confucianism school, especially to the honoring of these social relationships (and the officiating of social roles). the one ceremony/ritual we saw in mlc involving the main characters - or more accurately speaking, came closest to seeing - was the imminent wedding ceremony of dfs and jlq. even in that case, it was premised on non-mutuality with dfs being the unwilling, passive party. (fem-coded dfs? 25 marks.)

and that brings us to the next part.

2) how mlc repurposes these ties

that particular wedding ceremony gets hijacked by dfs and lxy/llh, and gets turned into an important milestone in their relationship. they consummate - what is on text - their friendship after a long time being more enemies and rivals than friends. it is a clear establishment of the trust they have for each other. and here it is where I circle back to the subject of this post: friendships as marital ties.

in this article, as a part of a feminist, egalitarian reframing of confucianism, there is a proposal for spousal relationships to be reframed as a friendship tie. (this aligns with the interrelatedness of the five ties eg. the ruler-subject mirrors father-son dynamic, with the confucian belief that rulers have an obligation to their subjects alike parents to their own children.) by doing so, it removes the functional, gendered differentiation assigned to marital ties, and shifts it to something equal, and independent of gender. you exalt the value of trust between spouses, instead of basing marital relationships on gendered roles. as such, spouses become more like friends, and conversely, friends can also become more like spouses. (romance not a prerequisite. it has never been about romance anyway.)

given that mlc has repeatedly applied marital motifs to llh and dfs's characters in their joint narratives, this opens up a reading friendships as a marital tie. seeing marriage as a bridge for strangers to become family, marriage in mlc becomes a metaphor for the chosen commitment and mutual trust put in by strangers/friends (non-familial ties) into the becoming of family. the blurring of lines between marital ties and friendship encourages a genuine space of queer experience that goes beyond any pressure for strict labels - of sexuality, and relationships as romantic, sexual, etc etc.

(note: despite the borrowing of a feminist concept, I strongly hesitate to call mlc a feminist story. it's a whole discussion - or debate - on its own. nevertheless, it is definitely a gender-conscious story that lays foundation for a strong queer and egalitarian reading.)

it is to be noted that it is intended - and also beneficial to take the confucian framework of relational ties beyond face value. the framework offers what it believed to be the most fundamental social relationship dynamics, and sees room for extension and matching to other kinds of relationships (all if not, most). a relationship such as teacher-student, which is outside of the five ties stated, can also mirror the affection of father-son ties, albeit not in a literal and identical way.

speaking of which. fdb and lxy/llh.

indeed they're known by others to be good friends. fdb thinks they're good friends too - insists on it, and puts his best efforts in keeping it that way. but does it really go both ways? if it does not, then can it really still be friendship? my humble take is that, ultimately - weighing in with llh's perspective - this is a relationship that is not so much based on trust, and rather, based on an innate affection that is only unique to family. (in this case, not blood/marital-based but one that was chosen and built aka lxy's relationship with sgd.) in other words, less of a friendship, more of a familial one.

it is a lot clearer considering their relationship from llh's point of view: some brat you never wanted in your life came barging in, and whether he was going to bring any positive effect to your life was secondary to the tranquility - which you have carved for yourself in the past decade - that is so integral to your personhood. no way. but the moment you hear that he's family? well, that changes the game completely. even before learning about fdb being sgd's son (then beginning to take initiative in showing greater acceptance), it is apparent in llh that there was an instinctive resonance with fdb as his shixiong's nephew. (eg. he remarked to his shifu's grave about how alike fdb is to himself.) this is unlike with dfs whom he had taken a much longer time to build trust with. you do not apply trust - aka the quality of friendships - to family. family is something deeper, more instinctive than that. if fdb was never family, I find it hard to imagine given llh's personality, that he would have let some brazen, bratty stranger intrude for that long. (boy invited himself to llh's home, sat himself down eating the owner's dinner and nosing in his cooking abilities!!! ily bb but that was uncalled for 😭)

of course there are many more layers in their relationship. there is a substantial degree of their history as (unwitting) teacher-disciple: fdb is still healthy and alive all thanks to the existence of lxy as a spiritual teacher role model in his life, regardless it being one-sided or not. there is also indeed some part of friendship in it, especially from fdb's point of view. he sees llh as a kindred spirit who he could enjoy a life of freedom with for life. but llh never reciprocates. he knew this was short-lived. and so ultimately, the hierarchical layer of their relationship overpowers the equal one, where llh's treatment of fdb as a nephew/小辈 younger family member and a disciple is the one that sealed the fate of their relationship.

if (blood-based) familial ties are irrelevant in jianghu, then the closest proxy to a father-son relationship in the martial world would be a teacher-disciple relationship. lxy and his shifu are a clear, indisputable example. for fdb and llh, their teacher-disciple tie is murkier and not consistently applied. they were also never ritualised as teacher-disciple, and thus are not teacher-disciple in any official capacity as far as confucian ideas are concerned. yet in crucial moments, it is invoked by llh as a card of authority over fdb to get out of sticky situations with fdb. and there was their final scene together: in a moment of sincerity, llh gives the approval to fdb as his disciple - then entrusting fdb with the secret manual of his techniques, up until his final letter in which fdb was recommended to dfs as a successor to his martial abilities.

in an imperial setting, this would have been the relationship of an emperor and his crown prince that straddles both ruler-subject and father-son ties aka a tag-team of disaster. the teacher has an obligation to nurture his disciple as a successor to himself, and love him like a son too. on the flipside, he holds the final power in their relationship - withholding knowledge and feelings from the younger one. they are only equals in a way a parent-child can be. they are only equals as much as the parent allows. and this is how fdb got left behind in the dust of llh's departure. he was the child treating his parent like a friend, supporting him emotionally and begging to be loved back the same way he loves his parent - but the parent had a lifetime way ahead of him and stayed out of his reach, physically and emotionally.

llh and fdb operate with the trapping of a friendship but have always been family in the core. llh had known that way before fdb did, just like everything else he had known and put out of fdb's reach. because. fdb did not have to know. fdb is different and will forge his own path. and that's a kind of love llh has for him that nobody understands (in fact not even fdb himself) - one that is on a different plane from friendships.

by repurposing the framework of relational ties, mlc showed that the essence of familial relationships aka its intimacy and closeness can be independent from biology and formalised rituals. and it is important to myself for stories to say that people can build close ties and deeply meaningful relationships even without being born or ritualised into any.

then back to how these relational ties are inextricable from the conceptualisation of the 'self' in confucian worldview: the roles you play in these relationships are intended to define you. there is no 'self' independent from it. while the concept of a social, relational self is fully rooted in reality, being locked into social roles can be a painful way to live - a way that llh has experienced as lxy the sigu sect leader. so, in order for lxy/llh to realise a sense of self that exists outside the norms, it inevitably points to another way that requires a cut from these relationships. that is then the buddhist (or taoist) answer of looking past attachments to the world such as the confucian idea of relationships defining your being. only with a dissolution of a sense of 'self', can there be true liberation.

#莲花楼 #mysterious lotus casebook #lhlmeta #lhl #my posts #dihua #can't believe this is how i choose to spend an inordinate amt of my free time 😐😐 being a broken recorder of brainrot 😐#anw the handful of fanghua moments that have moved me are the ones that are about the unbridgeable gap between them as 长辈小辈 as 徒弟师父 #(me realising lxy telling fdb 这个徒弟我没有白收 actually drives me nuts)#me: a brainrot-level dihua shipper first and foremost. also me: dedicating more of this meta to fanghua than dihua #about how fanghua's relationship is its own unique kind in the story. equally deep as dihua. just in a wholly different way.#dihua are friends and married and familial. but fanghua is family through and through #-> tl;dr of this meta actually #i just have extremely strong feelings about fanghua as a complicated little family unit.#which is independent of “shipping” FOR ME. but for anyone else though you can make anything out of it.#(gotta admit i'm a bit antsy about posting this and is uncertain how it's gonna be read. bc my reading of fanghua is so specific...well)#anyways. obsessed with dihua appropriating the heteronormative rituals <3 #edit: I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT TO TALK ABOUT DIFANG aaaAAAGHHHHHHHHHH #but. it's true they're very purely friendship-based i think

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anicehomicidaltree · 3 months

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Here are some sticker designs in various degrees of completion!

I want to include more references to the songs in the power hours. Any ideas on how to include evl ppl and savages into the first one and thermo and and if I did into the second?

#in general I’m v uncertain about the thdph one #I really like how the wwph one looks but I feel like something’s missing #also the last one is just the r/place logo fanart i did a while back but made shorter lol #chonny jash #cccc #chonnys charming chaos compendium #cj thdph #cj wwph #tree's art #tree mumblings

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solargeist · 6 months

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people need to start throwing pies and shoes at politicians again fr

#ive been so mad this week i feel so crazy #i cant say what im actually thinking abt politicians . but they should know better . given.. yknow. history #ive been v political since i was 14 #my stance on the matter is free palestine !! stand together !! speak out! throw rocks #if ur uncertain or confused abt things check out Hasanabi on twitch or YT ....#he keeps me sane AUGH #im being political on my art account bc i have made fun of boris johnson here b4 . im ALLOWED!!

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soulmvtes · 5 months

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january me and december me are very different people <3

#still very much the same but i feel so much more stable within myself #i had a hard time at the end of last year so last winter was just very much me feeling it all n feeling very uncertain #but i have lovely people around me rn #and im just trying to focus on the present and what i can control despite everything #diary #tiyas thoughts

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hgduo · 6 months

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... Will you guys please let me talk about hgduo/gossipduo/mockingjays/ whatever they are called a little more pleaseeeeeeeeee, they make me unwell and I want to get my thoughts about them out of my head- or more specifically about them from Bad's point of view!

There's a familial air to it, but it's just not true to define it like that- and that doesn't make what they DO have any less powerful or significant- They have a unique bond and that continues to be true, even during painful times like this.

Cellbit WAS Bad's responsibility at one point, and that time came and went- he got him through the war and into adulthood ( aka 18 years old or close to it.) They meet again as old friends and generally respect each other as such... but even so Bad can't deny he still feels some duty to watch over the man once he starts crumbling- much like how Cellbit as well can't help but reach out to Bad during this time.

but there's limits.

like- Bad for years had and still wants to protect Cellbit, he's had an influence on him, he taught him how to survive, he himself acknowledges he has some responsibility over Cellbit, looking at Cellbit right now feels like looking in a mirror, he doesn't like having to give up on him, but if it's between him and the kids he's choosing the kids every time... and he knows there is no simple way to save someone who refuses to let themself be saved.

And it hurts! It hurts seeing Cellbit like this! It hurts having to let him burn! It hurts watching someone he cares for falling down the same path he is! It hurts knowing he's hurting others the way it did for him seeing Cellbit like this! It hurts having to choose his kids over his protege/ student/ former responsibility/ the kid he watched over years ago/ old friend/ his 'something'!

Like, cc!Bad brought up this internal mental tier list that q!Bad has- I still deeply believe that q!Cellbit is quite high up there even if he'll never be at the level his kids are at- like he loves Cellbit enough that he ACTUALLY CONSIDERED putting parts of his months long plan at risk to save him- even if it was just during the stress of that moment that still means a LOT from Bad- but he was always going to choose his kids in the end!

Based on what I know of q!Bad (which is admitably not a lot lol) there is next to nothing that'd convince him to give up on his kids- with Cellbit he's able to see that he can't help him because Cellbit sadly does not want to be saved- and for Bad that means he simply has to accept it even if he really doesn't like it- the emotions from that night have processed and he's looking at the situation from a more logical and resolute perspective. If it means him and Cellbit may one day clash, then with a heavy sigh so be it....

but if it was Dapper or Pomme... I just don't feel certain in saying he'd be able to come to that conclusion, especially not after one night. Even if it would be the 'smart' thing to do. It's one of the key differences between the dynamic he has with them vs Cellbit...

But, in a perfect situation, he would've done everything to save them both.

Anyway thanks for reading, posting this at hell hours so my beloved mutuals won't see my hgduo ramblings but tagging this anyway for other people to see LMAO-

#mockingjays #hgduo #gossipduo #qsmp #badboyhalo #cellbit #God it's honestly a major problem how in love with this dynamic I am because I rly don't feel like I know shit about Bad or Cellbit LOL #like I enjoy both of their characters a lot but I feel so uncertain about actually ever talking about them- I enjoy them a LOT #but I don't think I have the best grasp on them as characters compared to others- wish I did though!#esp. Cellbit despite having been in love with his character since he joined- hence why I talk more about Bad's point of view LOL #wish I knew more Portuguese so I could 'get' q!Cellbit more I love him </3 #I always feel scared talking about them because their other fans just get them way better then I do- I'm just hyperfixing over one aspect!#one last comment I do generally feel like they have a similar view of one another of like-but recently I feel like Cellbit wants to view Ba #as something closer to a parental figure- consciously or not- but he still doesn't see him as family- at least not in his past #They were two dudes doing whatever it took to survive- but still he was a child and Bad was the adult he looked up to!#longpost

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paperstarwriters · 1 year

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Muriel & Physical affection HCs

I always feel so weirdly torn about Muriel & physical affection because on the one hand I do realize that he's kinda uncomfy with it in the first half and he's only better with it in the later half because he's grown familiar with MC, but like...

my gut instinct (aka, my need to project my traits onto him) is telling me that Muriel (like myself) is a little touch averse with strangers/people he doesn't know well, and even his friends since he doesn't know whether or not they're comfy with that and is too afraid/awkward to ask, but when given the chance/opportunity to he really really really likes cuddling, and will just absolutely creep up behind you to hug you while you do something. When he works on his carvings, he likes to either have you lean against his back while he works or have you sit in his lap (Only if he's painting/varnishing/whatever tho, he's not going to get wood shavings on you lol) Sometimes he even likes lying down in your lap if you're reading something.

also, also surprise kisses are most certainly a thing between the both of you lol (I know I've already written about this lol but I can't help it I love this idea too much) He just loves to shock you with a little kiss somewhere sensitive on your skin just to see you react with embarrassment or melt in his hands for once. Of course, he's no safer from kisses but he still takes great delight and joy in seeing you get all squirmy for once.

also, Imagine the chaos of the both of you bathing/swimming in a lake or something. With less clothes, Muriel has more access to your skin and will definitely leave some kisses in places he wouldn't have been able to reach before. And even if he practically freezes at the contact, rest assured that he loves you taking advantage of the same thing just as much as you do.

Also I imagine that he has a sort of love-hate relationship with PDA. On the one hand he hates the attention it draws to himself from onlookers. It makes him kinda spiral as he worries about what other people are thinking at seeing him with you, do they think that it's an imbalanced match or something? Do they think he's out of your league? Do they find PDA annoying and see his actions as uncomfortable or gross or rude or annoying??

On the other hand he cannot deny how giddy it makes him feel when he laces his hand with yours and gets to stroll through the streets quietly showing off to everyone else that you are his and he is yours. It's even better and even worse with a kiss. Especially since, if you give him a quick peck on his lips he'll probably want more, but will feel too uncomfortable in the crowds for another kiss, let alone asking for one.

and yet despite that he feels almost entirely fine with feeding you and being fed by you when you buy food in the market. Of course "almost entirely fine" might be a little inaccurate, he's not fine, but only in the best ways possible. He doesn't pass up the chance to lick up crumbs or juice or sauce from your fingertips or down your palm and wrist if it had gotten that far, and he gets very, very giddy when you do the same for him. He'll blush bright red, but it won't impede on him eating more of what you feed him. The only time it'd probably come to a halt is if he catches someone staring at the both of you. You'll be able to thank that random stranger for having to stop your little meal early.

Oh also, also Muriel definitely reads fiction stories. I just can't help but grin at the idea of him reading about some sort of knight in shining armor who gets to kiss their love interest on the back of their hand or along their knuckles as a sign of loyalty and respect, and Muriel just, with almost no explanation at all does the same for you.

Idk just Muriel & physical cuddly affection

#the arcana #muriel #muriel x reader #muriel x reader headcannons #muriel headcannons #muriel x mc #muriel x apprentice #muriel of the kokhuri #muriel the hermit #muriel the arcana #the arcana muriel #oh #also concerning Asra & Muriel #Muriel probably did give a ton of hugs to Asra before #but as Asra grew close with MC & spent so much time away from them #Muriel probably grew distant as well feeling uncertain as to what he should do #like he doesn't know if it's acceptable to want to hug Asra when it seems like the only one Asra wanted to hug was MC #He doesn't know whether or not Asra would be okay with it or if they'd find Muriel being weird/awkward about it #Obviously Asra wouldn't have minded #but Muriel didn't know that at the time so 🥲#Asra probably didn't notice either since they were so wrapped up in MC #x reader #reader insert

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