It has come to my attention that SOME OF YOU who read my last Byler post remain UNCONVINCED. So I'm gonna tack onto it this:
I'm older than fucking God and air, and I've been out and proud since 2007. Yes, I know what homophobia is, and yes, I know what queerbaiting is. I know about Supernatural and Teen Wolf and Sherlock and blahdyblahdyblah. No new ground is being covered here. I thought I made that clear in the original post, but, clearly, I did not.
I am aware of queerbaiting and homophobia, and I'm still wholeheartedly certain in Byler being canon anyway.
Okay, so there are three types of relationship I want to discuss when it comes to queerbaiting. They're all, like, "queer relationships that could have happened, but didn't".
First off, queer-coding. This isn't really a thing so much anymore, but it still crops up every once in a while. I'd argue it probably happens most with male-male relationships in family shows these days. First example that comes to mind is Mr. Smiley and Mr. Frowny from Steven Universe. You can't make a relationship canon because some shitty overhead bastard overhead said no, so you get as close as you can without compromising the show. Can't make someone gay? Well, now their comedy routine is a blatant allegory for a romantic relationship. Boom-shaka-laka. This is something I don't see being a problem with regards to Stranger Things, but I want it to be there as contrast, a demonstration of one of many things queerbaiting is not. However, one could argue that, thus far, Will Byers is, canonically, queer-coded. It's pretty fucking heavily implied in the show, and the creators have confirmed it, and you're gonna be able to see it if you're not FUCKING BLIND, but word of god is not technically canon which means that interviews don't technically make something canon, blahdyblahdyblahdyblah, technicalities, Robin has been explicitly stated in the text to be queer while Will has, thus far, not, outside of good ol' Show-Don't-Tell. Of course, anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell that that's going to change by the end of Season 5, but, hey, for what it's worth, I'm throwing this out there.
Alrighty, Thingamajingama Number Two: "Oops, I accidentally made the greatest love story known to man." AKA, a genuine, honest-to-goodness mistake. Unfortunately, we do live in a heteronormative society. Sometimes people who don't think about being gay much write a friendship that's incredibly compelling and don't even consider the possibility that it could have been read as romantic. Something something Top Gun something. This is, again, not queerbaiting. This is Steddie, this is Ronance, this is Elmax, this is your favorite flavor of non-canon ship this week, this is not Byler. The creators know DAMN well what they're doing. They've talked about it. We know this. Nothing new here.
Which brings us to the topic of discussion here. Actual queerbaiting. This usually starts out as an "accidental greatest love story", and then reacts to fan response. And when I say "reacts", I mean like a goddamn chemical reaction. Like bleach and ammonia, bitch. It's noxious and it's gonna kick your fucking ass without mercy. This is when a creator is like, "Hey, let's get our queer audience invested, but we're not actually going to give them what they want because our straight audience isn't here for that/we personally think it's gross/we don't give enough of a shit to want to research a goddamn thing to write a real gay character," blah blah blah whatever excuse they want to come up with this time.
And when you think "queerbaiting", I want you to think "bullying". Because that's what it is. It's lucrative bullying, like beating us up and taking our lunch money, but it's bullying all the same. And it's a real goddamn thing, even if people misuse the word a lot, often when they mean one of the two above, sometimes when they mean "bury your gays", which is another homophobic thing entirely that I'm not going to get into here. Queerbaiting is the thing we're focused on, and it's real, and it's bullying. And here's the reason I want you to think of it as bullying:
They
Think
It's
Funny.
They are actively making fun of us.
That's why Dean had the "Cas, get out of my ass," line in Supernatural. It's why the "Do you like boys?" line happened in Teen Wolf. It's why "Lie with me, Watson," happened in the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies. Because "It's just a joke, mate." "It was just a prank, bro." "You didn't really think it would happen, did you?" "You should see your face."
So here's probably the biggest reason I don't think it's specifically queerbaiting in this specific instance of Will Byers and Mike Wheeler.
Stranger Things has never, not once, made a gay joke. Ever.
Every single time queerness comes up, it's dead serious.
Lonnie calls Will a fag, and the show is not at all reluctant to show what a goddamn horrible person he is. And when Hopper latches onto that, it's not as "Hahah, is he gay, though?" It's because he's trying to determine a potential motive for Will's disappearance, and even if someone had interpreted it as a joke, Joyce immediately has a line that functions as snapping her fingers in front of the audience's face and yelling "FOCUS" when she says "He's MISSING." Basically outright saying "This isn't funny!"
Troy calls him a fairy, along with targeting Lucas and Dustin for their skin color and disability respectively, and Mike gets damn near murderous. Troy is portrayed as a goddamn monster and the show portrays it as justice when El makes him piss his pants and later breaks his arm.
Steve calls Jonathan "queer" as a slur and gets the shit beat out of him for it.
Billy's father is revealed to be homophobic and abusive in the same breath.
Mike says "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" and we're shown how devastated Will is and Mike immediately follows him to beg for forgiveness.
There is a joke in Robin's coming-out scene, but it's not at Robin's expense. It's at Steve's. Specifically for being heteronormative.
Jonathan has multiple scenes where he's trying so hard to tell Will that he's always going to love him as he is, whether he's gay or not, without pressuring him to come out before he's ready.
Even when there's a little bit of ribbing at Robin's expense, it's always because she's an awkward nerd who's nervous around pretty girls, just the same as Lucas and Dustin are teased when they both first develop crushes on Max, and even then, even then, it always comes as a package deal where they make fun of Steve's girl problems at the same time.
Stranger Things is an emphatically pro-gay show. It may not be the core point of the show the way it is in, say, Our Flag Means Death, but there is nothing less than respect for its queer characters. Its queer characters are always taken completely seriously. No one is making fun of us. They never have. That's why I have serious doubts that this is queerbaiting. It would come completely out of left field for the bullying to start in Stranger Things' final season.
So it's not at all likely to be queerbaiting because queerness is taken completely seriously. The creators have talked about Will's queerness, at least, so it's not an accident. And queer-coding would be silly to expect from this show when it's already on its final season. Like, what is Netflix gonna do? Cancel it? Not to mention all the explicit queerness that's in there already. And no one's gonna "What about the children?" a show that's had sex scenes in it since the first season.
There's no fakeout here. It's gonna happen. Breathe.
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So I couldn't help but browse the THG tag bc those books own my whole heart. I actually check it now and again, and it's been interesting see how opinions have changed over the years, especially in regards to Gale and Peeta. Going through the evolution of them as just potential love interests to being far more complex than I could have expected has been a wild ride. Crazy how this reads different than from when I was a preteen.
That said, I wanted to give my unsolicited two cents on my boys, because though I have been enjoying the discussion on Peeta and Gale and what they mean to the story, I also feel like reducing them to Peeta = peace and Gale = war is far too simplistic... and oftentimes unfair to one or both of them.
See, I don't think Peeta and Gale are peace and war/destruction. They're compassion and indignation.
Peeta worries about the other tributes, or their families, or how to repay people like Rue and Thresh for what they did.
Gale is indignation at how the Capitol treats its citizens, it's anger at the injustice of inequality and brutality.
Both are needed in a story like THG. You can't have people like even Peeta not say something like "maybe we're wrong about keeping things quiet in the districts", you can't have him not drop the baby bomb, you can't start a revolution without Gale's indignation at the status quo. At deserving a better life but being denied it, at having your kids be mercilessly killed for literal sport.
However, if you start a rebellion and loose sight of your compassion, you end up no better than the people you're fighting against. Gale wasn't a bad person, imo. His heart was in the right place. He was flawed, yes, but so is everyone in this series. Gale, most importantly, lost sight of the line between fighting for the people he cared about and fighting against the people who hurt him.
Reducing Gale's indignation to just revenge and hatred ignores so much of what he stands for. Who hasn't seen laws passed that dehumanize people, who hasn't been angry and furious when someone is elected who fundamentally hates everything you are, who doesn't think some people need to pay for the atrocities they committed? There's a little bit of Gale in every single one of us - and it's important that it's there, because that's what gives us strength to challenge the status quo and make life better for the future generations.
But. You can't let it take over. You can't loose sight of your compassion or your empathy.
That's where Peeta comes in. Peeta is the voice in your head that worries about how many good lives will be lost when they give themselves up for this cause. Peeta is the worry about the people caught in the crossfire. Peeta is rebuilding when it's over and believing that the next generation will have a better life than your own. Peeta is being kind, even to people who may not deserve it.
And Gale... Gale looses sight of his compassion, and he doesn't realize it until it smacks him in the face when the bombs go off and Prim is gone and he's too far gone. Meanwhile, Peeta advocates for the end of the war even though it means the status quo remains - and regardless of what he believes himself, I don't think Suzanne chose him to say those lines by chance. It means both mindsets have their flaws: too kind and things that shouldn't remain will never be challenged and changed, too angry and you may loose sight of what you're fighting for.
And that's just how Suzanne uses her characters, both of them, all of them. Just look at who is with Katniss depending on the situation:
- Katniss chooses to "rebel" after Gale is brutally whipped. She kisses him.
- Katniss realizes that in order for D12 to rebel, everyone would need to be in on it, and she realizes most of them are not like her, that they're scared and she understands, emphasises with them. Peeta walks by her side.
- Katniss finally does it though, shoots the arrow at the force field, and Peeta is taken from her, it's now Gale by her side.
(You can't start a rebellion without indignation, and sometimes you HAVE to do it or things will never change, regardless of the inevitable pain that will come along.)
- Katniss is righteously angry at the Capitol bombing a hospital full of innocents to make a point. Gale remains there.
- Coin twists people's compassion into an army to fight for her own personal gain. Peeta is hijacked and looses his sense of self.
- Katniss and Gale go to District 2 and even though she tries to be like Peeta, she's still shot- reinforcing Gale's views, the person who was with her during that sequence.
- Katniss is angry at Snow, Katniss goes to the Capitol to kill him. Gale is there.
- Katniss gets in way over her head and realizes she is responsible for the death of most of her squad. She shares the lamb stew with Peeta, and later cleans his wounds.
- Finnick dies and she's at her lowest up until that point and all she wants to do is give up and give in to the anger. She kisses Peeta and begs him to stay with her.
... Claiming that Gale is destruction ignores the fact that he's with Katniss through her own moments of strength. Her desire to change things, to fight back, is as important as her compassion. Mockingjay just brutally shows you what war does to your indignation, to your compassion. How easy it is to cross a line between righteous anger and revenge, or how your sense of empathy and compassion can be manipulated into something monstrous by others, or by all the terrible, brutal, painful things you see.
How easy it is to loose yourself- and that goes for both of them.
Peeta and Gale aren't static characters, they go from representations of sentiments regarding an injust government to what happens to those feelings when an extreme situation such as war breaks out. All of that, by the way, while dealing with this duality themselves, because they are still characters who think and feel and struggle and have flaws of their own- and while I love what they stand for, I've seen too many comments that pin everything into what they mean, that they forget that Peeta and Gale are still people, they aren't perfect metaphors. They're human.
Ultimately, Katniss doesn't really choose peace. She wants peace, yes. But what she chooses is compassion. empathy. hope. There's a time and place for anger at injustice. There's a time when fighting back is the right thing to do. There are even times when you wanna give in to your despair and lash out. But if you want peace, then you have to choose Peeta, because Peeta represents what you need to focus on to achieve that peace. You have to let go of the anger or you won't ever rest. So Gale leaves, and does not come back... And yet, Katniss still has her moments of indignation, of making a stand, even as he goes - she still casts her vote at that meeting, she still shoots Coin. Katniss does not abandon that part of who she is. It's just not her main drive anymore.
So then she goes on to make the choice, every single day, to be compassionate to others. To have hope. To rebuild. Of course she chooses Peeta.
... Idk, man. These boys are so much more than what I see them so often reduced to. They're in all of us. There will be times to stand and fight, and times to show mercy and be kind. We just need to find that balance, as Katniss eventually did.
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“It’s all YOUR fault!”
For the ask game 🙏
Hallo, love!!!
this isn’t necessarily Steddie, but I hope you enjoy!!!
angst prompt list | hurt/comfort prompt list | nice scenarios list (more about the asks in my pinned post)
CW: mention of drugs, guns, weed, alcoholism, animal abuse (but it’s more like neglect than abuse), and smoking, implied sexual activity
Max was nearly over the neighbor’s fence—the chair she had brought outside was tipping out from underneath her, but maybe she could just climb back over the fence afterwards—when the chair finally gave out and she fell backwards onto the cold grass, feeling the wind knocked out of her. “Shit—“
She gasped, turning over onto her stomach and pushing herself up, trying to breathe, but her lungs wouldn’t take in air. There was the sound of a car door opening and closing, silence, and then muffled cursing, followed by the sound of crunching on gravel. She ignored it, bending over and coughing out another gasp, her hair falling into her eyes. “Fucking shit—“
“Jesus, kid,” a voice muttered, and she saw someone kneel next to her, an orange flannel and a corduroy jacket flashing out of the corner of her eyes, and she felt a hand press against her back, rubbing against the fabric of her shirt. “You tryin’ to get yourself killed?”
Max finally sucked in a breath and coughed, folding over again. The hand stayed on her back, pressed against it gently, until she whipped around and glared at the person. It was Wayne. She didn’t really know Wayne, but his nephew had brought over food, once, and ate with her in her front yard. He made her hair smell like cigarettes from how much he had been smoking, but he seemed nice enough.
“I’m fine,” she snapped, waving Wayne’s hands off when he went to help her up. She could stand on her own, she wasn’t a fucking kid. Wayne looked at her, then to the chair, and then to the small white dog on the other side of the fence.
He raised an eyebrow, looking her over as she dusted the dirt off of her hands “You tryna steal the neighbor’s dog?”
“No—“ she said quickly. “I mean—whatever, why do you care?”
“Because I know the person who lives here, and I don’t think he’ll take kindly to havin’ his dog stolen,” Wayne said quietly, crossing his arms and leaning back slightly. He looked tired.
“What, is he going to fucking shoot me or something?” She bit back, but her eyes widened slightly when Wayne nodded. She sighed and looked back over at the dog. She didn’t know his name, so she had just been calling him Jamie. “He doesn’t…he doesn’t feed him, I know it. I have to do it. And I don’t think he gives him much water, either. He’s out here all the time.”
“Hm. Well, how about we go talk to him before we try and take his dog away, hm?”
“He deserves to have his dog—“ Max cut herself off when Wayne narrowed his eyes slightly. She looked down and glared at the grass beneath her sneakers. It was cold out here.
“You go put the chair back, and I’ll get my nephew. He knows Briar better than I do. Might be able to talk some sense into him.” Wayne muttered, sighing. Max watched as he walked off, before dragging the chair back towards the back door of her trailer. She managed to get it back through the door without making too much noise, putting it back at the table.
She went back into the living room quickly, just to make sure her mom was still there—and she was, passed out on the couch with a couple empty beer bottles scattered on the floor, her red hair plastered to her forehead with sweat. Max left her there, half-falling off of the couch. She still had her high-heels on.
Max grabbed her jacket and then ran back outside, across the street to the Munson’s trailer. The air around the place smelled like weed. She knocked on the door and waited. No one answered. Fuck it, she thought, pushing the door open and stepping inside.
Wayne was sitting on the couch, his feet up on the coffee table, drinking from a mug that looked like Garfield’s head. She always knew the old man was weird, but now she just thought he was fucking crazy. “Where’s Eddie?”
“Getting dressed. He’s in his room if you want to go knock. See if he’s done.”
Max huffed and looked around. Wayne’s trailer had the same set up as hers—and it looked the same as hers, too, mostly. Cluttered. Messy. But with a lot more mugs and mechanic magazines. She walked down the hallway to where her room was and knocked. There was faint music coming from inside, and it smelled like cigarette smoke. It was the kind of music Billy had listened to. Fuck, no, she wasn’t going to think about that asshole anymore. It wouldn’t bring him back—not like she wanted him back. He had nearly killed her ex-boyfriend…well…she wasn’t actually sure what they were to each other, right now.
Sometimes she would go and see Lucas when she went over to Dustin’s, and they would laugh and everything would be fine—and then other times she didn’t want anything to do with him, resenting the idea of even being in the same school building as him. She missed Lucas.
“Yeah, yeah, hold on,” She heard Eddie mutter, and there was another voice in there, too, but she couldn’t hear it over the music.
“I know, sweetheart, hold on,” Eddie said, and Max narrowed his eyes. “Gotta do something for Wayne, then I’ll be back.”
Was he with a girl or something? Gross. The door opened and there Eddie was, looking annoyed and a bit disheveled, his Iron Maiden t-shirt half tucked into his black jeans, his hair messed up and kind of sweaty looking. “Can I help you?”
“Wayne said you’d talk to Briar for me,” Max said, glaring at him, feeling a bit awkward with the way he was looking at her. Eddie sighed, looking back when a voice asked, “Eds? Who’s that?”
Max’s eyes widened slightly and she pushed past Eddie, who made a noise of protest, trying to grab her arm and tug her back. She hit his hand away, and her eyes widened slightly when she saw Steve, shirtless in Eddie’s bed, his hair pushed back, blinking sleep out of his eyes. “What the fuck?”
She looked back at Eddie, whose face was flushed bright red as he looked away. Steve noticed Max and made a quiet ‘oh’ sound, before giving her an apologetic smile. “Hey.”
“You know what—Steve, you and I can talk about this later. Eddie, let’s go.”
She grabbed Eddie’s wrist and pulled him outside, her heart nearly beating out of her chest. Not because of the fact that Eddie was sleeping with a guy who was practically her babysitter, but because she was afraid of what Briar was going to say.
“Why are we talking to Mr. Jones, anyways?” Eddie muttered, rubbing his eyes and sighing as Max led him to the front door of Briar’s trailer.
“His dog.”
“What about?”
She knocked on the door and then turned back to Eddie. “He doesn’t take care of him. He leaves him outside everyday, and I’ve been feeding him so that he doesn’t starve.”
Eddie’s eyes widened slightly as he looked concerned. “Shit, Mayfield, I don’t think we should—“
The door opened, and there was Briar. He was tall, with whisky brown hair and a scowl across his face. “The fuck you kids want?”
Eddie cleared his throat and pushed Max behind him a bit. Max kicked at his leg, and Eddie winced, glaring at her, but he moved his hand. He turned back to face Briar and sighed, giving him a small, strained smile. “Hey, Mr. Jones. How’s it going?”
“Munson? I didn’t ask to buy anything—“
“I know, I know, I’m not here with weed. We, um…it’s about your dog?”
“Benny?”
Eddie nodded, and Max stepped back out from behind him, ignoring him as he tried to pull her back. “How often do you feed him?”
“What?”
“How often do you feed Jami—Benny?”
Briar turned around, glancing in the direction of the backyard. “Dunno. Every few days, I guess.”
“Well, he needs more food than that,” Max snapped, because I’ve been feeding him every night for the past few months.”
“Mayfield,” Eddie hissed, trying to tug her back, but she ignored him, taking a step closer to Briar.
“You know, I don’t think you should even have your dog, at this point.”
Briar’s eyes narrowed, and he looked down at Max. She stayed where she was. Eddie tugged her back, and she tried to get him to let go, but he just held onto her arm even tighter—tight enough to hurt. “I’m sorry we bothered you, sir. I hope you have a good rest of your evening.”
Briar nodded and closed the door, and Max whirled on Eddie, her eyes watering. “What the fuck?”
“Mayfield—“
“No, shut up! This—this is all your fault! He’s not going to listen if you don’t let me talk to him!” She screamed, and she knew she was being too loud, because someone in one of the trailers across from him opened their door to look out at what was going on, a cigarette pinched between their lips.
Eddie grabbed her shoulder and his expression softened, but his voice was still stern. “Look—I’ve been here a lot longer than you have. And I know Mr. Jones. He’s not going to listen to you, no matter how much you scream at him. I’ll talk to him for you. Tell him all about the dog. Okay?”
Max nodded, willing her tears not to fall. “Whatever.”
“You going back to your place, or do you need to stay at mine?”
Max’s cheeks flushed. She had only stayed over once, when Eddie was out somewhere and it was just Wayne, but she had been too tired to remember it. She felt angry that Wayne had told Eddie about that, but she didn’t say anything about that. “Not after what you and Steve did in there. You’re going to need to burn your bed.”
“Oh, fuck off.” Eddie muttered, rolling his eyes, and Steve stepped back, pushing his hands off of her.
“You’re such a child.”
“Says the literal child.”
“I am not—“ She cut herself off and sucked in a deep breath, sighing. “I’ll see you tomorrow, Eddie. Tell Wayne…and Steve…I said goodnight.”
Eddie looked a bit surprised, like he expected Max to snap at him again the second he let his guard down. He nodded, turning and going back to her trailer.
Max went back to hers. She hauled her mom back up onto the couch, turning the light off in the living room and picking up the boor bottles to put in the recycling. She took her pills, praying that she wouldn’t wake up with another headache—or have another nightmare—and didn’t bother changing for bed.
The next morning, coming home from school, she saw Briar walking Benny down the street.
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*whispering softly* it all comes back to you, you little shit
small analysis about why i think this is a really good song for fhr under the cut
—
Is it really a complex or just lacking context/Why would someone go so far to be a walking lie?
this just. sums up step as a character. such a massive chunk of their story is exploring the identities they take up(puppet, step, and vsona) and the reasons why they use each one. why did step decide to be so many different people at once? is it safety? comfort? simply not knowing how to be anything else? the vagueness leaves it open for interpretation. a lot of the song is like this, which is why i find its really good for a wide variety of peoples steps.
Yeah, that don't sound like me/I don't think I'm that guy (enter beginner's guide)
technically not an analysis, but i have a really strong image of step singing all three lines (counting the one in the bracket as a line) with their three identities singing one line each if that makes sense.
Please, excuse our current appearance/I realize that it's quite a mess
this line can be taken as two things. either its step talking about themeselves– most likely post-heartbreak– and how theyre clearly not the hero they used to be. or the line can be about the rangers. the second interpretation makes more sense with the next lines:
And our deepest apologies for all of the noise/We're understaffed and we're over-stressed
i think with the previous lines being an interpretation of step, this dives more into their gripes with their villainy (eg, some steps are overworked, some steps are unsure of their own goals, some of them arent sure if they want to be a villain) and how the it affects their mental state ("the noise" in this case could refer to the stress and doubts, or if you want to get literal, it could be steps endless amounts of brain passengers).
with the rangers interpretation, though, i imagine it being one of them literally describing the state of the rangers at the moment. most likely ortega showing step the hq after the argent incident? in this case it could become a lot more sinister, since theres a lot of room for step to take advantage of the information ortega just handed them.
That I would lose (needed a change of pace)/Oh, I would lose/Between my left and right, one day I'd have to choose (gone without a chance)
honestly? this whole section is the kind of thing id imagine is running through steps mind 24/7. lots of missed opportunities, cutting back and forth, regrets everywhere you turn. and step still has to make a choice now to be better or worse than who they were the day before.
He found the man before him had died
looking in the mirror. finding a dead man. need i say more.
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