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starsnheroes · 7 months

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John Walker was hitting on Peter

KEEPING UP WITH THE ENTERPRISE / Oh. Someone wants to start war and witness a homicide // mentioned @crisispider

It was already bad enough that LITERAL SCUM was aboard this goddamn ship, that he's a GUEST ABOARD the Enterprise. Clint's already up to his neck in HOT WATER for laying out a FIST-SHAPED LICKING.

That kind of trouble was WORTH IT for one of the men in his life that he hated with a fervor. IT WAS EARNED ⸻ FOR THE RECORD. The pilot thinks he has as earned more than all the rights to hold this grudge over JOHN FUCKING WALKER.

He nearly got him kicked out of Starfleet a multitude of times, and oh yeah, the most important point that HE ALMOST KILLED HIM. Clint may not have had the highest opinion of his own life, a struggling with recovery alcoholic who joined Starfleet on the whim to prove his brother WRONG. Stubbornly DEFY his comments that he was LIKE DAD and that he should END UP LIKE HE ENDED UP.

Clint's already WRECKED his shared quarters in a fight of rage, the need to fight the DRINKING urge, and he didn't exactly have what he had back down his earth, when he was living on the road, in circuses, the part of America that still had land stretched wide. A HOBBY CENTURIES OLD. Archaic weaponry that become like his thing, archery. A bow, he didn't have that in this FLYING METAL DEATH TRAP. Sorry Enterprise.

⸻ JOHN WALKER WAS HITTING ON PETER ⸻

There may as well be a RED ALERT going off in his brain, already was in his vision and his ears are ringing. JOHN FUCKING WALKER DID WHAT NOW? Clint's heavily contemplating what the merits of JETTISONING A MAN INTO SPACE. There's a reason that space, the literal outside of the ship's hull, was QUICK SCARY PAINFUL DEATH.

It'd basically BE MURDER and than he'd be out in the vacuum as well or in the brig. IT'S NOT A LITERAL IDEA HE IS TOYING WITH. A fantasy he would not be all that proud to admit to. Clint would lose too much if he went through with that option, and HE'S BETTER THAN FUCKING WALKER.

He doesn't need to beat someone down and strangle them like John did to him. EXCEPT HE WOULD LIKE TO GIVE HIS JAW ANOTHER HARD KNOCK. That was reasonable , right?

Why the fuck was he aboard the Enterprise ⸺ that convening snake. Clint hopes that he sheds his skin and shows his true colors, o than maybe the Captain at last would allow him ONE MORE GOOD SWING ⸺ OR SHOOT HIM; PHASER SET TO STUN.

❝ I hope he gets what is coming for him. ❞

#me: clint will hold this grudge and hate john walker in every universe #ic; clint barton #ask; clint barton #verse; clint barton; to boldly go (ss; crisispider)#me: reminder to everyone in like most universe that arent 616 (and lets be real 616 too) clint is UNHINGED #clint's a hothead. and with hothead? tend to comes some anger.#alcoholism cw #murder cw

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age-of-moonknight · 2 years

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“Devil’s Reign Part 4,” Devil’s Reign (Vol. 1/2021), #4.

Writer: Chip Zdarsky; Penciler and Inker: Marco Checchetto; Colorist: Marcio Menyz; Letterer: Clayton Cowles

#Marvel #Marvel comics #Marvel 616 #Devil’s Reign #Moon Knight comics #Moon Knight is in this issue I swear #U.S. Agent #John Walker #Rhino #Aleksei Sytsevich #Dr. Octopus #Otto Octavius #let’s get this bread

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scarletwitchpanels · 2 years

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The West Coast Avengers in Julia’s memories in Spider-Island: Emergence of Evil - Jackal & Hobgoblin #1

#julia carpenter #spiderwoman #john walker #us agent #bobbi morse #mockingbird #wanda maximoff #scarlet witch #spiderwitch #clint barton #hawkeye #marvel 616 #spider island #spider island: emergence of evil #patrick scherberger

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sineala · 1 year

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Intertextuality in Steve/Tony Comics

Hi, Tumblr! I wanted to talk about intertextuality in comics. Actually, I mostly just wanted to talk about this 616 Steve/Tony fact I found that I had no idea existed until the other day but I didn't want to spoil what it was in the title, so this post just sounds way classier than it actually is.

So if you're a comics fan to any degree you've probably figured out that comics are big into intertextuality. Superhero comics are probably the biggest stories that exist -- Marvel's been going with zero linewide reboots since the 1940s, so barring retcons, any comic you pick up from the past eighty years is going to be basically "true" in canon. And comics take a lot of opportunities to play with that fact, using recurring villains, recurring lines, and of course lots of panel redraws of iconic moments but now with other characters. It's a genre that often rewards knowing what has come before, although of course usually you don't have to know in order to follow the plot because if it's something you need to know, it will be filled in.

(An example of this in recent comics that I thought was really clever was Secret Invasion #1, the new miniseries by Ryan North. It is completely readable if you know nothing about Skrulls (although you should probably know that they are shapeshifters) because by the end of it you will know everything you need to know to understand, but the more you know, the more you will understand what the comic is doing as it's happening. The issue opens with Nick Fury visiting a family because a woman wants to show him the body of her dead husband. She explains that she is thrilled that he is dead because she believes that he was replaced by a Skrull and now the Skrull is dead and her real husband must still be out there. We then get a panel of Fury swearing in dismay and frustration. The thing the book hasn't told you at this point is that Skrulls revert to their real forms upon death -- so when you see a dead human, as Fury has, you know for sure that it's a dead human. So if you already know this about Skrulls you know exactly why Fury is upset: he has to break this woman's heart because he knows for a fact that the guy wasn't a Skrull. The book itself fills you in about this fact a couple pages later, but the scene totally works if you just think Fury strongly suspects this guy isn't a Skrull. You just get to feel real smart if you already know why.)

Anyway. That wasn't the kind of intertextuality I wanted to talk about. Just wanted to rec the Secret Invasion mini.

I wanted to talk about the thing that happens where you think you know every detail about a comics event and you later find yourself reading a comic book from the same era that as far as you know has absolutely nothing to do with that event, except, surprise, it does! And there's just some random detail there that wasn't anywhere else in any other comic and it really changes how you think about the whole thing. Because that's the thing that happened to me the other day.

Okay, so. For Reasons, I needed to know about the circumstances surrounding John Walker joining the West Coast Avengers. I'd already been reading Cap from that era, so I knew that in Cap #355, Steve gets a call from the government informing him that Walker is alive and can they borrow that black uniform if Steve isn't using it because they're going to force the WCA to take him. So the thing I started wondering was, hey, what did Tony think of Walker joining the WCA? Because Tony was on the WCA a lot in that era, so he was probably there. Except I checked, and... he wasn't. Walker joins the WCA in WCA #44. Tony is not on the team then.

I haven't read a whole lot of WCA, so naturally that meant I now had a new question, which was "when did Tony leave the WCA, and when did he come back?" So I poked around the appearances list on the Marvel Wiki and found that he left the team in WCA #31 and came back a whole twenty issues later, in WCA #51. I just want to say that Tony has picked some terrifically awful times to leave and rejoin the team, because #31 is the middle of the plot where Bobbi gets raped, and #51 is the BABY ARMS. But that's neither here nor there.

So now I was wondering why Tony left the WCA. I figured I'd go read the issue where he left and it would tell me why. I figured it was probably one of those standard superhero things where he makes a standard goodbye speech, whatever, he's got stuff to do.

That is definitely not how any of this goes down.

So Tony enters the plot in WCA #31 when he's walking around and happens upon Tigra and Moon Knight making out. Like you do, I guess.

Tony, who is rather uncharacteristically angry, tells the two of them to leave. He'd like to sit there by himself because he has some important stuff to think about. Scram. Tigra and Moon Knight, quite reasonably, tell him that this is their romantic scenic overlook and he can go get his own.

(Yes, Tigra knows Tony is Iron Man; she was there in the Molecule Man issue (Avengers #216), so she found out at approximately the same time Steve did. Most but not all of the rest of the WCA knows. Clint and Bobbi specifically do also know because Tony told them in IM #193, which was the recovery phase of the second drinking arc. We will see a few more people who know in this issue.)

Clint, whose attitude to team leadership at this point appears to be, "oh my God, why do I have to be the responsible adult now? thanks, I hate it," shows up to tell Tony to knock it off. He'd like to know what Tony's problem is. Tony says he can't tell him.

Tony says, essentially, that he has to think about some things. Clint really wants to know what's going on because, after all, the WCA is his team. And Tony asks Clint to trust him. Clint says he trusts him. And then Tony's like "okay, thanks, bye," and zooms off.

So at this point, as you can imagine, Clint is wondering what the hell is going on with Tony, and he laments to Bobbi that Tony won't just tell him what's going on.

At this point I too am wondering what's going on with Tony. Because, like I said, I haven't read a lot of WCA, so my assumption at this point is that whatever is going on with Tony is some ongoing development that has been happening in the pages of WCA and that I just don't know what it is because I haven't been reading WCA. I feel this is generally a reasonable assumption. Also, I'm wrong.

We are then interrupted by Clint getting a call from the East Coast team. And this is when we find out what's been going on with Tony.

You may have already figured it out. I didn't.

Spoilers: it's Armor Wars.

The East Coast team is calling to tell the WCA about Armor Wars.

And the framing of this is really, really interesting. I am speaking here as a Steve/Tony fan.

So you might think that the thing everyone's going to be upset about is that Tony is running around stealing his technology back from people because that seems like kind of a bad look for a superhero who is supposed to be a good guy.

They are upset about all that stuff later, yes. But that's not the part of it they're upset about now.

The issue that just happened is Iron Man #228, which as we all know is the issue where Tony breaks into the Vault to steal his technology from the Guardsmen. That's still not the part they're upset about.

They're upset that Tony fought Steve. That's why they're calling.

As far as I know, every other canon recounting of this issue that isn't specifically by Steve or Tony doesn't mention Steve and Tony fighting at the Vault. For example, the Vault thing is part of Ty's smear campaign against Tony in IM v3 #39, but it only mentions Tony fighting the Guardsmen. Nothing about Steve.

We do get other retellings of the fight and scenes that discuss the impact of the fight but they're all Steve and/or Tony, with no one else even present: Steve's POV on the fight in Cap #340, the discussion in IM #238, the famous apology scene in Cap #401, and even Civil War: Casualties of War. Like, as far as I can tell from the rest of canon, it might as well be the case that no one but Steve and Tony knows anything about the fight.

But that's not actually true, because here we see that their fellow Avengers know they've fought. They know, and they're horrified.

You have to remember, this right here is pretty much the first time Steve and Tony have ever seriously fought. Steve took a swing at Tony way back in the Korvac Saga, but I don't think either of them really treated that very seriously. Steve was upset about Tony drinking in Denny O'Neil's run. But those fights they have where they're seriously trying to beat the shit out of each other and then they stop talking to each other or one or both of them die or there are big dramatic apologies? They haven't had any of those yet. This is the first one.

So their teammates -- and note that Steve is not even a current Avenger at this point, but the Avengers obviously still care about him -- instead of being like, meh, whatever, sometimes Steve and Tony beat each other up, are visibly shaken, because Steve and Tony are friends. This has never happened before. This is really wrong. It's a very emotional reaction. So that, I definitely wasn't expecting.

And the other thing I wasn't expecting was that the way this news is delivered is basically as if it is Tony And Steve's Abusive Relationship.

I'm absolutely not kidding about this.

So here's Monica Rambeau calling the WCA up and being like, I'm sorry I have to tell you this, but I just found out that a few days ago Tony attacked Steve at the Vault. Steve didn't want to tell us, and no one would have known if he hadn't been able to conceal it.

The WCA expresses their disbelief, and Monica insists that she's not kidding -- "Steve's got the bruises to prove it!"

Yeah, so, uh. Marvel's really not being subtle about this. I was just sitting here staring at my computer like OH MY GOD, THEY ACTUALLY WENT THERE. They really are framing this like it’s an act of domestic violence and not garden-variety superhero punching.

So, understandably, Clint is freaking out. He's like, holy shit, both these guys are my friends, I've known them for so long, I told Tony I trusted him, oh no.

Tony then does not appear in WCA for twenty more issues.

So you might be wondering whether they just leave this plotline hanging and they in fact do not. They catch up on it in the very next issue of the mainline Armor Wars story, which is IM #229.

So at some point Tony comes back to the WCA compound and the WCA want to know what the hell is going on:

Somehow by this point the team knows about the thefts that are the actual plot of Armor Wars, but Simon does mention the part where Tony beat up Captain America:

So Tony gives a big summary of all of Armor Wars (yes, including mentioning losing Steve’s friendship):

I enjoy the fact that Clint's response is instantly "you could have told us." Given the way the next page goes I'm pretty sure this is general sympathy and not "you know how much I love committing crimes, Tony, why didn't you think of me?" but I like to pretend it's the second one.

Anyway, what Clint actually says is that he understands where Tony is coming from but that Tony can't do this and be an Avenger. So Tony is off the team.

And once again, Tony zooms away.

So that's the WCA, the Armor Wars, and Tony And Steve's Abusive Relationship.

But after all that, I am left with one question: where did the bruises come from?

Monica says Steve has bruises. From the way she says it, it doesn't sound like it's any kind of metaphor -- it sounds like they're actual bruises. It sounds like the reason the team got the Armor Wars story out of Steve is because they saw that he had actual bruises.

But we all know how the fight in IM #228 goes: Steve and Tony have a brief angsty conversation, Tony claps a negator on Steve's shoulder, and Steve falls to the ground, temporarily paralyzed, while we all learn that a bond has now been broken.

What Tony did was very bad, yes. But also, what he did shouldn't have left bruises. No one punched Steve during this fight. No one punches Steve on his way in or out of the Vault. So Steve shouldn't look like he's been in a fistfight with Tony. But Monica is describing Steve as if he looks like Tony has been hitting him and apparently Steve confirmed that to her.

So they can't be talking about the fight at the Vault. Except they said they were. So what's going on?

As far as I can tell, what they're actually talking about is the confrontation in Cap #341, which happens as a result of the IM #228 fight. This is the one where Steve breaks into Tony's place to wait for him to get home so he can angrily return the shield that Tony made for him earlier in IM #228, like a normal person who has totally normal feelings about another person.

Steve actually returns the shield by throwing it directly into Tony's unarmored stomach, so I feel like (a) there is a sense in which Steve actually picked this fight that is being blamed on Tony (although, yes, obviously the initial conflict was Tony's fault) and (b) this is not really a good look, Steve.

Tony does eventually armor up and fight back, and there are blows exchanged.

I assume this could have bruised Steve up. There’s my explanation.

So that is, as far as I can determine, the only event at all related to Armor Wars in which Steve probably has bruises from being attacked by Tony, although it seems to have been conflated with the Vault attack itself, which if Steve let the Avengers assume this (when Steve actually started this particular fight) is frankly kind of shitty of Steve, but, y'know, Armor Wars is not an event where anyone comes out of it looking good.

(Yes, I know the Doylist explanation is most likely the fact that Armor Wars was by Michelinie & Layton, and West Coast Avengers was by Steve Englehart, and that Englehart was probably working with some kind of rough plot summary of Armor Wars and ended up fleshing it out with details that ended up not existing. It's definitely not the worst plot hole in Marvel Comics.)

Anyway, so there's some information about Armor Wars I didn't have before a few days ago that definitely ups the Steve/Tony angst of Armor Wars even more.

#posts i actually wrote

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vergilsama922 · 2 years

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Let's talk about MCU Phase 4

So there's been general rumblings in the community that Phase 4 is aimless. Directionless. That there's no connections between the movies. And I can respect that viewpoint but to me I see where it's all heading towards. Secret Wars (2015 version). What exactly IS secret wars though? Well to be short it's a deathmatch between universes for survival. The original universe MILES MORALES was from was the Ultimate Universe (Earth 1610) alongside the black nick fury (In the 616 universe he was white). However incursions happened (Yes those same incursions from Doctor Strange 2) and universes across the multiverse were colliding into each other. Eventually it was just the main comic universe vs the ultimate universe and there was some shenanigans with Doctor Doom becoming a god and creating battleworld. But we'll save that for later. For now let's look at what we've gotten in Phase 4. I'll also explain exactly how these all tie in for the future.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS FOR EVERY PHASE 4 MOVIE AND SHOW

WandaVision: Well we were given Scarlet Witch, The Darkhold, Nexus beings, Agatha, White Vision, Wiccan, Speed and Monica getting her powers. Scarlet witch was important for Doctor Strange 2 alongside the Darkhold however this may not be the last we see of her.

More importantly Nexus beings are.....people who can basically defy fate. They are quite literally chaos. Save that for later. But there's also White Vision who's still out there on the planet or galaxy. Wanda's kids also make their debut here which is setting up the Young Avengers for the future or some deviation of it lol

Falcon and the Winter Soldier: We got more of Zemo, Sam becoming Captain America, Bucky being at peace with himself, the Flag smashers, the GRC, Torres being set up as the new falcon, John Walker, Isaiah and his grandson Eli and Val. And of course there's Sharon Carter.

We got some very interesting development here. Eli is another Young Avenger, John Walker is being set up for the Thunderbolts with Val serving as the leader/recruiter, Zemo also will most likely be on the thunderbolts as well and Sam becoming Captain America is huge for a variety of reasons. Champions (Avengers variation) can be set up from here but let's not forget Sharon Carter who'll be huge for Armor Wars, Possibly Ironheart and more.

Loki: Oh man. We got the TVA, introduction of multiple timelines, Variants, He Who Remains, and the prologue to Kang.

Listen, this show is very pivotal for what's being set up. We know the infinity stones are only locked to the universe they come from, The brief lore of the Multiverse war with Kangs fighting each other. Loki being set into ANOTHER universe and the opening of our universe to the grand multiverse (Thank you sylvie -___-) whereas before someone like Chavez couldn't access our reality since we were sealed off. The TVA is also huge because we've seen technology capable of nullifying magic and other wonky things like sending people to the Void when pruned

Black Widow: Alright we were given Yelena, Taskmaster, Red Guardian, and the other widows being free.

This movie is deceptive. Get it? Because Black Widow is a spy? ......Okay I'll see myself out lol. BUT basically what I'm saying is that we got Taskmaster who is prime Thunderbolt material, Yelena who we've seen pop up in Hawkeye and has a connection with Val, Red Guardian while being a bumbling idiot he DID mention fighting Captain America in the past. Also we've seen briefly a widow fighting against an Extremis guy in Shang-Chi, I think the widows are doing their own thing now and we may see a few of them working for Val.

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings: Wooo boy. Ten rings the organization, Ten rings weapon, Dragons, Ta Lo, Xu Xialing taking over the ten rings organization and HOTEL CALIFORNIA!!!! (Such a lovely place~)

Memes aside (Great song), There's so much to unpack here. We've seen the Ten rings symbol in Iron man 1, Ant-Man, and now Ms. Marvel. This organization has been around for thousands of years and their connections has to run deep. The weapons themselves from the post credit scene aren't known to be Kree, Science or Magic based. Oh man. Like the Bangle from Ms. Marvel we have something.....odd here. Celestial tech? Maybe something else? Perhaps not even from our universe? Also freaking dragons exist. DRAGONS! They're so cool! Ta Lo is also of note because it's a realm (Not so much a different universe) like Asgard or where the Djinn come from. It's also part of the same realms that K'un L'un is from. But Xialing taking over the ten rings....Yeah we're definitely going to see more of the impact this has in the immediate future. Perhaps a collaboration with Val and Sharon.

What If…?: The Watcher and other Universes. Also sick ass Ultron fight.

Not much to really say here. It's a cool novel concept taken literally from the same comics series but it did show us our first look into alternate universes. We've seen Captain Carter variant show up in Doctor Strange 2 and I think this show sets a lot of the groundwork for what we will see in the future. Also cmon. That Ultron fight? AMAZING!!! *Ahem* fanboy aside, I don't think that everything in What if will stay in What If.

Eternals: Arishem the fucking judge, Tiamat's emergence, Eternals themselves, Deviants, Starfox and Black Knight.

Right so Arishem is.....I think he's going to judge humanity after the events or during the events of Secret Wars. He's literally the prime celestial. The one who created all the eternals across the universe if not multiverse. Tiamat's emergence is also really important. I feel like there are organizations studying him and maybe trying to take pieces of him to use as tech? We'll see. The eternals themselves is important because it's not just OUR planet that has them judging by the post credits scene. Our eternals though....well they have a LONG history and met many many people in the past and present. The deviants are also going to be seen again in the future. And.....in the comics.....Thanos was a deviant. Which ties into....Starfox being thanos brother. Yeah....I think there's going to be more lore into Thanos but also other eternals not from earth.

And to wrap it up. Black Knight and his cursed Ebony Blade which may or may not be related to the Necrosword from Thor 4. This sword may serve as a key in upcoming events but setting that aside, we see Dane talking to Blade himself. Which is setting up for a possible Midnight Sons? Hmm.

Hawkeye: Kate Bishop, Introduction of the Kingpin and Echo.

Right so Hawkeye gave us Kate who is absolutely fantastic and will be a central figure like Yelena moving forward. Kingpin however being introduced in the MCU proper does mean we have a central villain figure for a few heroes including Peter Parker. Echo is of course getting her own show and she may or may not end up on the Thunderbolts

Spider-Man: No Way Home: More Variants, Daredevil debut, College Trilogy, Symbiote

So this movie was huge for showing different variants of the same character in a single universe. I do think they would cause an Incursion if they stayed any longer but the upside is that the Raimi and Webb Spider-men universes have had their villains redeemed and alive now XD. Matt Murdock also makes his first MCU debut in this movie and we'll see him in Echo plus his own Disney Plus show~ There's also the college trilogy being set up which means everything up to now was just a prologue for Peter. I can't wait to see what villains we will get......and speaking of villains. HOLY SHIT WE HAVE A SYMBIOTE HERE!!! If you guys aren't aware, the black suit spider man actually debut in the first secret wars in the 80s. There's no stretch to think they'll do the same thing. Also we have to see if our universe does have symbiotes

Moon Knight: Introduction of Egyptian gods, Exploring the Afterlife, Avatars

Yeah. I love this show but we got a lot of future material here. The egyptian gods are still here on earth and they DO have power but stay at an arms distance. We've seen the afterlife albeit briefly but it ties into Thor 4 with Valhalla. And Taweret brings up the Ancestral Plane from Black Panther. I don't think these afterlifes are just here to be here. We may see some wonky things happen where these places get disturbed and souls are pulled out. But avatars. Look. This is huge. Bast is the Panther Goddess and that means she too has an Avatar like how Marc was for Khonshu. We also seen Layla become the Scarlet Scarab because she's an avatar for Taweret~ I don't think is the last we'll see of this concept.

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness: I mean CMON. This ENTIRE movie is the Lynchpin with Quantumania perhaps being the only other Phase 4 movie that makes it clear as day what's going to happen. We got Incursions, Another universe with 838, Darkhold being destroyed across the multiverse, Chavez being a Multiversal traveler, Clea opening a portal to the dark dimension because Strange caused an incursion. Look. This movie lol.....it literally told you all what will happen in the future XDDD

Ms. Marvel: The Bangle, Mutations, Switching places, Noor dimension

Right so the Bangle like the Ten rings seems to be an unknown origin weapon. It's most likely not from this universe. That being said, this is just ONE out of a TWO piece set. And judging by the fact that this bangle was discovered in a place related to the ten rings.....Oh man. There's also the fact that Kamala Khan is our FIRST ever mutant. To be fair she was supposed to be a mutant in the comics but the whole Perlmutter pushing for Inhumans to be the next x-men....yeah....That aside this is huge as it sets up for other mutants like Namor in Black Panther 2, X-men and more.

The post credit is also....I think Carol might've found the other bangle and activated it. Either way this bangle is definitely not from our planet. Curious to see if the bangle are the infamous Nega-Bands or Quantum Bands from the comics. And the Noor dimension. We have a secret dimension that overlaps with our own. I'll explain why this is important at the end.

Thor: Love and Thunder: Valhalla, Necrosword, Eternity, Love (Gorr's daughter), This movie just affirms what I already know. We got valhalla which may just be another realm like Ta Lo or whatever. Ergo when a person dies like energy they don't really cease to exist but rather go somewhere else. The Necrosword which....ties into Knull the GOD of symbiotes. (Might be the sword that decapitated the celestial head used as a spaceport called Knowhere) This sword could also be related to the Ebony Blade that Dane Whitman has.

Also holy shit we've seen ETERNITY! That's literally how it looks in the comics LOL! Uh....this must mean Infinity, Oblivion, Death and maybe even the Phoenix Force are in the MCU. Nerdness aside, this lets us know that there are VERY strong multiversal entities that DO exist. And this ties into Love since she was given a fraction of Eternity's power when she was resurrected. I absolutely think Love will be a MAJOR character moving forward if not the reason as to how Secret Wars begins or Ends or both.

Right so what does ALL of this mean???? Well Let's look at the pieces and make them fit yeah?

We're getting completely new characters like She-hulk, Moon Knight, Ironheart, Nova, etc etc.

We have successor characters like Sam Captain America, Kate Bishop, Yelena Bolova, etc etc

There are a lot of things concerning earth, space, magic and the multiverse.

Listen. This all ties into secret wars. I think Kang's multiversal war is literally just that. A secret war fought across reality and incursions will happen forcing magic characters to get involved. It'll probably get so bad that there will only be a handful of Universes left and we may see either 616 vs 838 OR what I think is more likely 616 vs some other universe where we see legacy characters come back like Tony, Steve, Natasha, etc VERSUS our new Black Widow, Captain America, etc etc

Can you imagine our peter parker FORCED to fight another Tony so OUR universe doesn't get erased? Or our Sam vs their Steve? And these other variants won't know about the history or connection our characters have. New characters are being introduced to increase the scale of how epic this battle will be. Marc Moon Knight vs Jake Moon Knight or Arthur Moon Knight. Ms Marvel vs a Carol Danvers Ms. Marvel. The possibilities are endless.

Love will function as either the catalyst that starts this whole thing with each Kang trying to use her as an ultimate weapon given she has the power of infinity in her or she ends up putting this conflict to rest for good with her powers similar to God Doom. She may end up accidentally or intentionally creating a BattleWorld which is a hodge podge of different universes that were destroyed put into a single world.

Either way, all roads lead to Kang and we WILL see more versions of Kang in the future. Everything in Phase 4 is building up towards New characters fighting the Old characters we've loved and they've loved. Everything is leading up to the survival of our reality vs another universe's reality. We're going to see Black Suit Spider man, the gods getting involved, magic users, Old and New characters returning. It's going to make the Endgame portal scene look like a toddler.

People wanted another Endgame event. They wanted to know where it was all heading?

THIS is where it's all heading. I hope you're all ready for the vast epicness and grand scale the MCU will be heading towards. Infinity Stones? Wiping out half the universe? That was just the warm-up.

ENTIRE universes being wiped out, Fighting a war against multiple variants of the same character, Introduction of new characters from our universe or others.....Yeah. This is the big league now. And I hope you're all ready for it.

#marvel #mcu phase 4 #mcu #marvel cinematic universe #marvel studios #secret wars #marvel mcu

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obscurest-reference · 2 years

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there's so much to impact so i'll just go down the list of whats been announced (and leaked)

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (Feb 17, 2023)

i have no thoughts on this movie. i am excited for more Kang lore and for Cassie to be a bug (?) but that's about it. i hope Luis returns

Secret Invasion (Spring 2023)

okay so i get the Skrulls and Kree mixed up but after googling it i now remember the difference

i am honestly really excited for more Fury and Maria. i miss Fury and Maria had so much potential so i'm just. i'm vibing with this one

Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 3 (May 5, 2023)

i'm only slightly more excited for this one than for Quantumania

i do remember hearing that this'll be basically the end of the GotG (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) so i'm kinda sad but if it's anything like the other two films i'm so ready for this one

Echo (Summer 2023)

FUCK.

I'M SO

FUUUUUUUCK

Jessica Jones better show up at the end of this one >:(

but in all seriousness Echo seems like a really cool character and I can't wait to see and learn more about her (and see more of Fisk?)

Loki s2 (Summer 2023)

The Marvels (July 28, 2023)

I heard it was gonna be part musical?? idk i'm not looking forward to that part. could work with Joker but not with the Marvels, sorry

but! i am excited to see more Maria and Kamala

my theory is that Carol found the second bangle and that's how her and Kamala switched places

Blade (Nov 3, 2023)

tbh i know nothing about Blade other than he hunts vampires and Eternals was supposed to set this up

and also that there was already a Blade movie

should i watch the old Blade movie? was it good?

imagine if he kills Morbius in the movie.

Ironheart (Fall 2023)

i'm actually pretty excited for this one despite hardly knowing anything about the character!!

i know Riri is gonna be in Black Panther II so i bet it'll set this show up

Agatha: Coven of Chaos (Winter 2023/Early 2024)

ok imma be honest, i think i'm least excited for this one

idk! i liked Agatha as a one-off villain, i didn't really see her character going anywhere after WandaVision

i have no idea whats gonna happen in this show. is her husband finally gonna show up or

Daredevil: Born Again (Spring 2024)

- HOLY FUCKING SHIT

I'M SO FUCKING

I WANT TO PUKE (/pos)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Captain America: New World Order (May 3, 2024)

FINALLY MY BOY SAM IS GETTING THE RECOGNITION HE DESERVES

I'M SO EXCITED FOR THIS ONE

i really fucking hope Bucky doesn't die, not only because he's been my comfort character for 8 years, but because i also want him to be in

Thunderbolts (July 26, 2024)

okay okay so i skimmed the wiki page for 616 Thunderbolts and this is the group i wanna see:

Zemo and Bucky as reluctant and hateful co-leaders (or one or the other as the leader, but i def want both to be in it)

John Walker as U.S. Agent and Yelena Belova as the Black Widow

(these four alone are such a fun combination and i cannot express how much i want them to be a group)

Kate Bishop (and maybe even Clint Barton!) as Hawkeye

bonus ones that don't make sense but would be fun: Taskmaster and Ghost

also, i know Val was Madame Hydra, but considering how she went to both John and Yelena, what if she's putting together the Thunderbolts?

Fantastic Four (Nov 8, 2024)

IF JOHN KRASINSKI ISNT MR FANTASTIC I DONT WANT IT!!!!!!

if Krasinski is Mr. Fantastic can Emily Blunt be Sue Storm pls

oh i'll also take it if Joe Keery is Human Torch

if none of those people are in the cast then I Don't Want It

Avengers: Kang Dynasty (May 2, 2025)

holy fucking SHIT

Avengers: Secret Wars (Nov 7, 2025)

I really really fucking hope this isnt supposed to be a sequel to Kang Dynasty

but!

i am!

very!

fucking!

excited!

Other thoughts on other announcements/leaks

after seeing the full She-Hulk trailer, i can safely say i am now more excited for this one than i previously was (it was the one i was least excited for lmao)

when is the black panther trailer supposed to drop i thought it was gonna get released like an hour ago sobs

no?? no Shang-Chi or Moon Knight news?? none?? come on Marvel y'all know those are the best ones. you can admit it.

i'm so fucking excited for Marvel: Zombies too i know that show is gonna be ELITE

so Spider-Man: Freshman Year is just gonna be another Spider-Man show i guess?? got me thinking it would be canon to the MCU

and i guess X-Men 97 is just a continuation of the 90s animated show so i'll have to watch that. it looks goofy and fun though

the Multiverse Saga. what a fucking power play

#marvel #mcu #marvel cinematic universe #multiverse saga #marvel phase 5 #mcu phase 5

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johnmihombre · 2 years

Note

You know what would be a cool idea? if Marvel decides to put Olivia Walker in the 616 comics.

that would be amazing, definitely John is ready to have that special someone

it would also be very interesting to see how the comic John interacts with Olivia

#john walker #us agent #marvel #wyatt russell #olivia walker #thunderbolts #falcon and winter solider series #jolivia

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hunkahulkaaburningfudge · 1 year

Text

West Coast Avengers (1985) #45

#west coast avengers #vision #white vision #the vision #616 vision #john walker #us agent #john byrne #marvel comics #marvel 616 #vintage comics

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zemothethirteenth · 10 months

Text

Main Verses

{ Colonel } Family deceased ; commander of EKO-Scorpion

This verse covers the years between Age of Ultron and TFATWS; this is Zemo’s heavy researching period, though it may also cover the two days in which he’s looking for his family. This verse is also useful for anyone who wants to mess around with how CACW plays out. There will be little to no playful flirting from this verse.

~ Ideal for : Scorpions ; Bucky Barnes (in Winter Soldier mode) ; Avengers looking for an antagonist (I’m cool if you’re looking for an antagonist in your multi-character thread, just shoot me a message and we can figure out a fit) ; Avengers who would like to be better at making amends than the MCU allowed them to be.

{ Baron } TFATWS Era ; nebulous Zemo parole universe ; you trust him, don’t you? - Default Verse

Can be during or immediately post TFATWS. I will always assume post TFATWS if a timeline isn’t specified. The circumstances of his parole are actively nebulous and may change from interaction to interaction to better suit the thread / plot.

~ Ideal for : Sam Wilson, Bucky Barnes, Sharon Carter, John Walker, Lemar Hoskins, Flagsmashers

{ Citizen V } Speculative Thunderbolts ;

Assumes that Zemo has been released on parole explicitly to 'work off' his debt to society.

~ Ideal for : Bucky Barnes, Yelena Belova, John Walker, Ava Starr, Alexei Shostakov, Antonia Dreykov, Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine

Alternate Universe

{ Hunter } Canon divergent; Family deceased ; HYDRA hunter and infiltrator ; commander / former commander of EKO-Scorpion

Drawing lightly from 616 and fanon; Zemo’s parents were formerly members of HYDRA, with his father a well-positioned operative in their Sokovian division, and his mother a scientist working on the Human Enhancement Process with the mind stone. Zemo had been mostly unaware of their involvement until after both had passed (along with Karl and Heike) in an ‘accident’ that he suspects might’ve been something less accidental. With access to their documentation and files, and his command over EKO-Scorpion, he’s taken to trying to find out as much as possible about HYDRA through whatever means necessary, while simultaneously ridding the world of them.

~ Ideal for : Most people, really. This verse exists primarily for ease of interaction for those who want to play with a different dynamic. * NOTE : This verse means that either CACW did not occur, or Zemo was not the perpetrator of it as his beef is no longer with the Avengers over his family's death. It may also mean that he's mistakenly made his way into someone else's universe due to HYDRA shenanigans or other methods.

{ hunter-slip } - the same as above, just in the 1940s

(Starter here)

~ Ideal for : Bucky; pre-serum Steve; Howard Stark; etc.

Mutual Specific Verses

{ Husband } - exclusive to Heike being alive (ofsokovianbaronesses)

In which Heike survived the fall of Novi Grad, but was comatose / an amnesiac during CACW-era, and went into hiding in Madripoor upon Zemo’s arrest. Baron-Adjacent.

{ chaos&contempt } - exclusive to Loki and Zemo being in a very cold truce due to Bucky (kissedbymischief & thecoldsoldiers)

In which Zemo and Loki have a very, very strained relationship that is formed entirely around the fact that they are both respecting Bucky enough to not kill each other. For now. Baron-Adjacent.

{ Two Kinds of Hearts } - exclusive to Bucky and Zemo's wedding threads (smertzimy)

In which Bucky and Zemo have begun an entirely too fast relationship that has resulted in them getting married. Everyone's worried, but they seem happy. Baron-Adjacent.

{ Bound To You In Sin } - exclusive to Secret Relationship thread (bloodstainedstar)

In which Bucky and Zemo are dealing with a relationship that they both know can't be allowed to come to light. As such, they're having to work hard to maintain that secrecy. Baron-Adjacent.

#{ info }#{ to be updated }

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