#Post Crisis Cass summary
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Canonical Batfamily Birthdays
Here are all the birthdates I know of that are canon somewhere in DC, with a preference for the main comics continuities. I have included exact sources and image references when possible. I am not including character introduction dates, just actual birthdays.
If you find any other sources for Batfamily birthdays, please do share!
A moment of silence for Batfamily characters who don’t have canonical birthdays yet, so far as I know. This includes Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Duke Thomas, and more. :(
Summary
Source images will be further down, but here’s an overview in roughly age order (I’m not sure of Kate vs Selina’s ages) with the dates the birthdays were introduced and used:
Tim Drake: July 19th (from 2003)
Jason Todd: August 16th (from 2004)
Cassandra Cain: January 26th (from 2002)
Helena Bertinelli: February 14th (in the Batman: The Brave and the Bold universe, from 2010)
Helena Wayne: September 7th (from 1984), potentially October 20th or the 22nd of unknown month or maybe October 22 or maybe Feb 28th (all the New 52 on passports from 2011-2012). These could also be New 52 Helena Bertinelli’s birthdays or nobody’s birthdays. who even knows.
Dick Grayson: March 20th (from 1995), October ~24th ish (from 1990), November 11th (from 1976), December 1st (on Earth-16 in animated Young Justice universe, from 2012)
Barbara Gordon: September 23rd (from 1976), sometime in fall (from 1987)
Selina Kyle: March 14th (from 1976)
Kate Kane: January 26th (in Batwoman TV series from 2020), March 21st? (word-of-god by J.H. Williams III from 2012)
Bruce Wayne: October 7th (from 2021), February 19th (from 1970s various to more recently), April ~7th (from the late 1940s)
Jim Gordon: January 5th (from 1976)
Alfred Pennyworth: April 8th (from 1976), August 16th (in the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe, from 2016)
Note: in this post when I say “main comics continuity(s)/universe” I’m referring to anything that’s been a “home” continuity for the comics at some point. For example, pre-Crisis Earth-2, Earth-1/New Earth, and Earth-0/Prime Earth, as opposed to Elseworlds or DCEU earths that are still part of the broader DC multiverse but have never been the primary continuity of the comics.
Below are further details and source panels.
Details and Sources
Tim Drake
Tim has only been given one canon birthday. He turned 16 on July 19th in Robin Vol. 2 #116 (cover date Sep 2003).
Robin Vol. 2 #116 (Sep 2003)
Jason Todd
Jason turned 18 on August 16th in Detective Comics #790 (March 2004). This is his only canon birthday.
Detective Comics #790 (Mar 2004)
In post-Crisis/preboot (1986-2011) continuity, there was a gap of six months between when Jason died and when he was resurrected (Batman Annual 25). Jason died April 27th according to his death certificates in Batman Annual 25 and Batman Files 2011, so he would’ve resurrected near late October.
Batman Annual 25 (May 2006)
So, it could be that post-resurrection Jason is biologically 6 months younger than he chronologically should be. But honestly, do we even really know what multiverse-breaking resurrection punches and then a Lazarus Pit on top of that do to someone’s body??? Either way it’s just much more simple to just use his chronological age.
Cassandra Cain
Much like Tim and Jason, Cass has only ever been given one birthdate: January 26th from Batgirl Vol. 1 #33. With that birthday, she turned 18 in Batgirl Vol. 1 #37.
Batgirl Vol. 1 #33 (Dec 2002)
When Jan 26th actually comes, Bruce suggests David Cain could’ve lied about it, but Cass denies that idea and continues to treat the day as her birthday.
Batgirl Vol. 1 #37 (Apr 2003)
Why it's likely her real birthday: Bruce initially believes Cain must’ve lied because he doesn’t think Cain could’ve known her birthday. However, we later learn Cain had lied about her origins and was actually her biological father. Batgirl v1 #62 and #73 show he was there for her birth and could absolutely know the date.
On top of that, in Batgirl #37 Cass remembers celebrating her birthday with him as a child, so he did seem to actually keep track of it. I honestly don’t see any reason to believe he’d lie (Bruce is just a jealous spoilsport).
Helena Bertinelli + Wayne
I’m combining them here because the New 52 gives me a headache.
Helena Bertinelli celebrated her birthday on February 14th in a spin-off comic from the animated Batman: The Brave and the Bold series. This is obviously not part of regular comics continuity and the characters differ from the usual comics in many ways. And yet, for reasons that will soon be clear, it’s my favorite for actually being about Helena Bertinelli the Huntress and for not being an utter mess.
Batman: The Brave and the Bold #14 (Apr 2010)
In a character profile at the end of Infinity Inc. #7 (Oct 1984), Helena Wayne’s birthday was September 7th, 1959. Calculating back from October 1984, that would make her 25 at the time.
During the New 52, Helena Bertinelli was initially portrayed as a long-dead (secretly alive but don’t worry about it) mobster’s daughter and replaced by Earth-2’s Helena Wayne who got stranded on Prime Earth. This H. Wayne stole H. Bertinelli’s identity in the form of several forged passports and IDs, which had hints toward birthdates. The question is, can we take any of those birthdates seriously, and if so, which birthdates and for which character? (Cue my headache.)
Skip ahead to Dick if overthinking fake passports sounds boring.
When comparing to a real Italian passport, the date on H. Wayne’s fake Italian passport appears to be a birthdate. Note that the fake name is Carol Bertinelli, not Helena. H. Wayne said her IDs were inspired by H. Bertinelli but clearly she’s taking liberties for the IDs so that’s a point toward these being useless for H. Bertinelli birthdays.
Huntress Vol. 3 #1 (Dec 2011)
I don’t recognize the month abbreviation as a real abbreviation, but from the visible letter O I’m going to assume it means October. If it is, then the date is 20 October 1985. Sidenote: a 1985 birthdate during 2011 could put her age at about 26, which is actually quite close to how old she could’ve been based on pre-Flashpoint! 1985 has been given as Helena Wayne’s death year before, so it’s an interesting choice of a birth year for her. (Thanks to DC’s sliding timescale, though, birth years don’t actually mean anything in the comics.)
They don’t show her complete US passport, but I can see a “22” in line where the day of the month should be for her birthdate. This already contradicts the previous passport. This one uses Helena Bertinelli’s actual name, though–does that make it more relevant than the Carol one or this all still ridiculous because of the discrepancies?
Worlds’ Finest Vol. 1 #1 (Jul 2012)
We can try to glean the US passport birth month from the passport number at the bottom. The first two digits (“12” here) indicate the agency that issued the passport. 12 means the Honolulu agency. Right after “USA” is supposed to be the birthdate plus an extra number, in the order of year/month/day with the year being the last two digits of a year. Here we encounter another problem. It says 810228. This would imply her birthdate is 1981/02/28. That’s February 28, 1981. Since the earlier line indicated her birthday fell on a 22nd, this already contradicts itself.
Interpreting a Machine Readable Zone (MZR) on a Machine Readable Travel Document (MRTD)
However, I’d bet comic writers and artists aren’t always well versed in passport numbers (it’s already a stretch for me to bother checking it…). If they put the extra digit before the birthdate instead after, and the date is formatted month/day/year (the most common format in American English, so probably their first instinct), then we can drop the first 8 and it’s 10/22/8[?] with the last digit unknown. This would put her birthday as October 22, sometime in the 1980s. The 22 matches the earlier line, the October might match the previous passport if that really did say October (but contradicts the 20th), and the 1980s year could be 1985 to match the Italian passport.
At the end of the day I’m personally just going to let Helena Bertinelli be a Valentine’s born baby and call it a day, unless/until she gets a better one in the comics. For Helena Wayne I’d easily pick September 7th.
(My question is: did they give the crossbow vigilante a Valentine’s birthday as a Cupid joke??)
Dick Grayson
Dick has probably had the most birthdays of everyone (unless Bruce has more I don’t know about). All of them have their drawbacks.
In a main comics continuity, his most popular and most recent is “the first day of spring” so probably March 20th. This comes from Robin Annual 4 when his mom says she calls him Robin because he was born on the first day of spring. That presents some problems since there are other explanations given for the origin of “Robin,” including that his mom said he was “always bobbin’ along” (Dark Victory #12, page 17) or the original inspiration of Robin Hood (Detective Comics #38, p3).
Robin Annual 4 (Jun 1995)
Before that, in Secret Origins Vol. 2 #50 (Aug 1990), Marv Wolfman wrote a version of Dick’s origins where Dick turned 10 a week before his parents died on Halloween. That would make his birthday October ~24th (presuming that “a week” before Halloween literally means 7 days here).
Secret Origins Vol. 2 #50 (Aug 1990)
The first drawback of the October birthday is that it’s tied to Dick being 10 when his parents die on Halloween. Dick’s age and the date his parents die change a lot depending on the writer (Nightwing Vol. 1 #1 says his parents died June 27th, Dark Victory #8-9 says May, etc.). The second drawback is that few people remember this version of his birthday even exists.
Dick’s birthday is November 11th in Super DC Calendar 1976. Note: Despite being a non-diegetic calendar from almost 50 years ago, this source remains well known and used among comic enthusiasts (including those working at DC). Generally, I would say it should mainly apply just to pre-Crisis continuity, but it is also useful for characters that haven’t gotten updated birthdays ever since (like Roy Harper, Barbara Gordon, or Selina Kyle, for example).
Super DC Calendar 1976
Sidenote: Since Damian doesn’t have a canon birthday, November 11th is favorite to steal for my own fan canon Damian birthday. Dick has plenty birthdays to share and I think it’s cute. @ DC, give Damian and Steph birthdays, they’ve been birthday-less for decades!
Indeed, DC writer Tim Sheridan and editor Mike Cotton debated whether Dick’s birthday was in March or November. They favored March 20th and wrote a birthday scene in Teen Titans Academy #1 (published March 23rd, 2021). The publishing time near Dick’s birthday was intentional, though the date isn’t mentioned within the comic itself.
Link to tweet
The above birthdays were all meant to apply to a main comics continuity at some point. However, Earth-16, better known as the animated Young Justice universe (therefore outside of main comics continuity), says YJ Dick’s birthday is December 1st.
Young Justice Vol. 2 #20 (Nov 2012)
Unlike Helena Bertinelli, Dick has plenty of comics birthdays to choose from, so personally I’ll only count Dec 1st as being the birthday for YJ animated/Earth-16 Dick Grayson until or unless it’s ever mentioned to apply to main comics continuity.
Barbara Gordon
Super DC Calendar 1976 says Barbara’s birthday is September 23rd.
Super DC Calendar 1976
Since then, the only time I recall her birthdate hinted at is in Secret Origins #20 when her adoptive mom says her birthday is in the fall. This could support her birthday being September 23rd.
Secret Origins Vol. 2 #20 (Nov 1987)
Although she has celebrated her birthday on panel since then (the end of Nightwing Vol. 2 #153), she hasn’t been given any other actual birthdate. So I’ll keep September 23rd and call it a day.
Selina Kyle
Super DC Calendar 1976 says Selina’s birthday is March 14th. Once again, although it hasn’t been mentioned within a comic, it’s stuck around in popular consciousness (see: Catwoman actress Zoë Kravitz wishing Selina a happy birthday on March 14th).
Super DC Calendar 1976
Selina celebrated a birthday on panel in Catwoman (2002) #37 but the date was never mentioned. I don’t know of any other reference to her birthday, but my reading of Selina is thus far more sparse than my reading of the others.
Kate Kane
Kate’s birthday options all come from outside of the comics themselves.
In “An Un-Birthday Present,” season 1 episode 11 of Batwoman, a parallel version of her twin Beth had a driver’s license showing her date of birth as January 26, 1990. She and Kate later celebrated their birthdays on an episode aired Jan 26th, 2020. I don’t keep up with live action DC shows so I unfortunately can’t offer a screenshot (if anyone has one or the timestamp, please let me know!).
(I kinda wonder if somebody looked up Batwoman’s birthday for these episodes, saw Batgirl’s (Cass’s) birthday, and just ran with it. Batwoman and a Batgirl sharing a birthday is just. Ughhh.)
In 2012, one of her comic writers tweeted to choose a random date for her birthday and picked March 21st, which so far as I know has never been used as her birthday in comics.
Link to tweet
Bruce Wayne
Bruce’s most popular birthday is February 19th, but his most recent one is October 7th from the digital-only comic Legends of the Dark Knight. I believe that’s the only time October 7th has been referenced, but I’ve heard the animated show The Batman said his birthday was in October (can’t confirm, haven’t watched it recently).
Legends of the Dark Knight #10 (Jun 2021) - Note: two pages have been combined into one for this post
Still, even associates of DC seem to remember his February 19th birthday better. In February 2023, Warner Bro’s Gotham Knights game did a sale for Bruce’s birthday. I’ve also heard the birthday was used in the Gotham TV show, but again, I don’t watch much live action DC shows.
The February 19th birthday appears to come from the 70s and 80s. It’s his birthday in the Super DC Calendar 1976, and in Batman Family Vol. 1 #11: “Suprise, Suprise!” (May 1977). Bob Rozakis (known as DC’s “Answer Man”) said Feb 19th was Bruce’s birthday in the letter column of Detective Comics #494 (Sep 1980).
Letter column of Detective Comics #494 (Sep 1980)
Batman Family Vol. 1 #11: “Suprise, Suprise!” (Jun 1977)
Super DC Calendar 1976
Way back in the 40s, his birthday was in April, possibly April 7th. During a birthstone murder mystery, Bruce says his birthstone is a diamond, which is traditionally the April birthstone.
World’s Finest Comics #33/6 (Mar-Apr 1948): “The 5 Jewels of Doom!”
Star Spangled Comics #91 (Apr 1949) might imply the exact date was April 7th but we’d have to assume the party is on his birthday and that “this month” refers to the publishing month of April. I believe this is where people get the April 7th birthday when they bring it up.
Star Spangled Comics #91 (Apr 1949)
Early April also shines in Batman: Year One where it shows Bruce’s first night out as Batman being either the night of April 6th or the early morning of April 7th (Batman #405). So although the April Bruce birthday hasn’t been used in decades, it’s still a Batman birthday in a way.
I have also heard people say Frank Miller considered Bruce’s birthday to be in November. However, I have yet to find an original source of him saying that, and honestly (just like the “March 21st” birthday for Kate) if he never used it in any canon material I don’t put much weight in that.
Jim Gordon
The only birthday I’ve ever seen for Jim is January 5th from Super DC Calendar 1976.
Super DC Calendar 1976
Alfred Pennyworth
Alfred’s birthday in Super DC Calendar 1976 is April 8th.
Super DC Calendar 1976
In the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe (an alternate reality where the video game of the same name is set in), they show Alfred’s birth certificate, where it says his birthday is August 16th, 1943.
Injustice: Gods Among Us Year Five #26 (Jun 2016)
Maybe you’ll notice that August 16th is Jason’s birthday. A little funny considering the issue features Alfred refusing to share his birthday only for us to learn it’s the same date as Jason’s. Still, annoying. There are so many days in the year! Stop choosing the same ones!
This Alfred birthdate runs into a similar problem Helena’s birthdates did: it’s not part of main comics canon, it’s an alternate universe, so it may not be applicable to the main comics universe.
Note: if we calculate that 1943 birth year from Jun 2016 when the comic was published, that’d make Alfred 72 soon to be 73. Does that mean anything in canon? Probably not, but oh well. Also...token British character born by Windsor Castle? …of course.
Personally, I would rather go with the April 8th birthday than the Injustice one, since Injustice is an alternate universe. Also, outside of the humor of it, the idea of Alfred and Jason sharing a birthday is a bit too much for me. Still, it’s up to people’s own cherry picking.
Chronology
The birthdays in publishing order alongside notable reboots. A soft-reboot refers to reboots that only changed a few details with minor consequences, keeping the overall continuity mostly intact. A major reboot has significant effects on continuity (too many to list).
1935-1986: Pre-Crisis era (Golden Age begins ~1946, Silver Age runs from late 50s--early 70s)
Mar-Apr 1948: Bruce’s birthday is in April
Apr 1949: Bruce has a birthday party on the 7th of “this month”
Skipping a good three decades because I barely even know what’s in there. Sorry lol
Mid 70s to early 90s: Bronze Age era
1976: the super dc calendar says Bruce’s birthday is February 19th, Alfred’s is April 8th, Dick’s is November 11th, Babs is September 23rd, Selina’s is March 14th, Jim’s is Jan 5th
Jun 1977: Bruce celebrates his birthday on February 19th
Sep 1980: letter collumnist says Bruce’s birthday is February 19th
Oct 1984: Helena Wayne’s birthday is on September 7th, 1959
Mar 1986: the major Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot (begins post-Crisis/New Earth era, many previous comics are now considered Earth-2 instead)
Nov 1987: Babs birthday is in fall
Aug 1990: Dick turns 10 a week before Halloween (probably October ~24th)
Sep 1994: Zero Hour soft reboot (Batman and Robin become urban legends so Robin is not allowed on video, Bruce’s parents’ murderer is changed to unknown instead of Joe Chill, Selina is no longer a once-prostitute)
Apr 1995: Dick’s birthday is the first day of spring (probably March 20th)
Oct 2002: Cass learns her birthday is January 26th
April 2003: Cass turns 18 on January 26th
Sep 2003: Tim turns 16 on July 19th
Mar 2004: Jason turns 18 on August 16th
Jun 2006: Infinite Crisis soft reboot (Joe Chill is restored as the arrested Wayne family murderer, Superboy-Prime's punch retroactively resurrects Jason)
Apr 2010: In the Batman: Brave and the Bold universe, Helena Bertinelli celebrates her birthday February 14th
Oct 2011: the major Flashpoint reboot (end of post-Crisis/preboot, begins the New 52 and changes the primary universe to Prime Earth; significant character/timeline changes and erasures)
Dec 2011: Helena Wayne’s fake Carol Bertinelli passport seems to list October 20th as a birthdate
Jul 2012: Helena Wayne’s fake Helena Bertinelli passport lists some 22nd unknown month, Oct 22nd, or Feb 28th birthday
Sep 2012: Batwoman writer J.H. Williams III randomly picks Kate’s birthday as March 21st on Twitter
Nov 2012: Earth-16/YJ animated Dick Grayson celebrates his birthday on December 1st
Jun 2016: In the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe, Alfred’s birth certificate says his birthday is August 16th
Jul 2016: Rebirth reboot (restores some pre-Flashpoint continuity, some characters regain previous histories but now semi-synchronized with the New 52 era)
Jan 2020: Batwoman TV show Kate celebrates her birthday on January 26th
Mar 2021: Writer Tim Sheridan says he & his editor chose March 20th as Dick’s birthday, between the March or November birthdays
May 2021: Infinite Frontier holds all previous continuities as potential canon, restoring more of pre-Flashpoint
Jun 2021: Bruce says his birthday is October 7th in a digital-only comic
Feb 2023: Gotham Knights game has a sale for Bruce’s birthday
#batfamily#batfam#tim drake#dick grayson#bruce wayne#dc continuity#heroesriseandfall#cassandra cain#dc comics#jason todd#helena bertinelli#selina kyle#barbara gordon#jim gordon#alfred pennyworth
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Hot Girl Shit (The Feminine Urge to Die Young)
(a.k.a Live Fast Die Young Redux)
AO3
Fandom: Batman
Featured Characters/relationships: Cassandra Cain & Claire Clover (Gotham Girl)
Wordcount: 6100
Summary:
Cassandra and Claire are both living lives with an expiration date when they meet. Claire has powers that burn time off her life with every use. Cassandra has a death match with Lady Shiva scheduled, one that she knows she will not win. In the brief period their time overlaps, a friendship blooms.
I am back on my niche-fic posting shtick! I am getting so much writing done while procrastinating on Batman for Dummies Ch 3. I have inserted Claire Clover and the "I am Gotham" arc from Batman (2016) into the post-crisis continuity roughly post-Officer Down for purposes of throwing these girls together. Enjoy.
(Thank you to @creetchure for betaing this for me!)
Excerpt:
Gotham is sluggish in the late summer heat. Warm, even at night. Humid from the bay. It doesn’t bother Cass, though she misses the breeze on her face. She wears the mask; it clings to her face like a second skin: warm, soft, already slightly damp from sweat. A second skin, a better face.
The last time she went out, Cass didn’t wear a mask. A mistake, Batman said. She could have hurt Barbara. Might still hurt Barbara, if the people who saw her make the right connections. Cass doesn’t want to hurt Barbara. She has her own cave to go back to now. Far away. Alone. It’s safer that way.
She is out now, in Gotham, an itch under her skin. She trained earlier, but it didn’t help. She needs to be out, needs to help. Gotham is slow tonight. Quiet. Too quiet. It itches.
Batgirl runs from rooftop to rooftop, searching, but still: Gotham is too quiet. Too still. There’s no one out, no one to fight. Maybe it’s the heat.
She stops on a rooftop, listens to the city around her. Gotham is never completely quiet; something is always moving. It is the same tonight, but calm. Maybe she should go back, train some more. Maybe this will be a wasted night.
But no. Sirens wail past. She sees flickering light on the horizon, smells smoke. A fire.
Batgirl runs.
The firemen beat her there. It’s an apartment building, burning quickly. Too quickly, the water not doing much to slow its devouring progress. All around are people: watchers and residents gathered around in their pajamas, smelling of smoke, some more than others. There are fire trucks, ambulances. Some people shout orders. Babies cry. Everyone is talking.
It’s too much. Dozens of voices blend together into one single mass of unknowable language. It reminds her of before, when everything was that unknowable mass.
The burning building gives an ominous creak. The shouting intensifies as firefighters begin to pull back.
A single voice, screaming and crying rises over the cacophony. Cass listens.
“—my daughter!” the woman is saying. “My daughter, she’s still in there. Please, someone! She needs help!”
There. There’s the woman. “Where?” Cass asks.
For a moment the woman is shocked. She looks at the bat emblazoned on Cass’s chest. Recognition sparks in her eyes. “The third floor,” she says. “Will you—”
Batgirl is already gone, running towards the fire. Everyone else is running away. They shout at her. She doesn’t listen.
She can feel the heat through her suit: burning fire. She is close, almost in and then—
A rush of air. She is… in the air. Someone is holding her. She strikes on instinct. She wants them off her. She wants them to let her go.
“Hey!” the person says. The voice is young, a girl. “I don’t want to drop you.”
Cass looks. They are high up. Flying. The drop is survivable, probably. She has her grapple, but: the girl didn’t drop her. She couldn’t break her grip. Cass stills.
“Good,” the girl says. “I’ll set you down in a second.”
They land on a rooftop. It’s away from the fire. Too far.
“I know you’re—” the girl starts to say.
“Bring me back,” Cass says.
“The building’s about to collapse! It’s dangerous.”
“No,” she says. “Inside, there’s a girl. I need to—”
The girl inhales, nervous. “Where?” she says, turning back to look. Then, before Cass can answer. “I see, I’ll get them, wait here.”
“Wait—” Cass starts to say, but the girl is gone, flown off. She’s not human— metahuman. Batman warned her about metahumans. The girl is wearing a blue and grey costume, a cape. Cass is curious. She waits.
The building collapses in a fiery blaze. A minute later, the girl returns.
“I got them both out in time,” she says. “They’re okay.”
Both. That means there were two. Cass only knew about one. “How?”
“Ultra vision to see them and then speed and flight to get them out.”
“You stopped me,” Cass accuses.
The girl looks apologetic. “I’m invulnerable. You would’ve died. You’re Batgirl, right?”
Cass nods.
“I’m Gotham Girl. At least, I was. I don’t know if I’m going to keep being her. I mean— I don’t know.”
She’s fidgeting: nervous, uncertain. Cass could surprise her; she sees the weakness in her form. It would be easy to exploit, except… speed, flight, maybe strength. Part of her still itches to try. Instead, Cass asks “You know… Batman?”
She nods. “He’s helping me out.”
An ally then.
“Can… can I ask you something?” Gotham girl asks.
Cass shrugs. She waits.
“Were you scared— running into the fire?”
“No.”
“You could’ve died.”
Cass shrugs. “There was… someone to save. Nobody dies.”
“Oh,” Gotham Girls says. She looks like she has more questions. Cass doesn’t want to answer them. She turns to leave.
“Wait.”
Cass pauses on the edge of the roof.
“Can I— I mean, see you around?”
Cass shrugs and jumps off the roof.
Continue reading on AO3!
#cassandra cain#claire clover#batgirl#gotham girl#live fast die young#my fic#havendance writes#carthago delenda est#dc#bats + birds + affiliated
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C/W 06-09 thoughts : ]
Boy this took me a bit!!! I made the post for the first set of episodes on August 12. I said then I should take more notes while listening, & I think I in fact took LESS notes. edit: and wrote... more??? ok.whatever
Summary (short)
There's a food crisis. Orth gets kidnapped! The Chime gets an automated message to find him and they track him down to some train tracks where the train Orth was on (with a food delivery) got derailed. They get in a really long fight some people from a group called the Iron Choir (they have Orth!) and also some Apostolosians (only really due to bad phrasing on AuDy's part) . And then don't really win but do get away with Orth, so everything's fine I guess?
(more on faction game down below. too much happens in those to summarize here.)
Ground Game
This is the second (and last!) arc they play using MechNoir. I only just started the episode where they switch the characters over to The Sprawl, and I'm counting that towards the next bunch of episodes rather than this one... Anyways, this arc is like a good argument for that switch. It kind of stands out as a "oh they switch after this, right?" thing now. BUT!
The fight was honestly not as much of a slog as I remembered. Like they've done wayyy better fights since ofc especially with mechs (for me personally PZN is still the standout but PAL has had some Good Shit too) but this is like. It's ok! There's fun bits! I like Aria's mech!
Part of it might absolutely be that I like. Give a fuck about mechs now and as a result am able to also imagine them better. I think in 2021, when I first listened, I was like. I guess there's Big Robots. Like transformers? (isn't even familiar with transformers) (really doesn't have a touchpoint for this at all)
I liked the snooping around bit before they got to this 2 episode long fight. I already mentioned it in an earlier post briefly, but we learn some minor details about Orth (they are looking through his office), that now really delight me because I love Orth! But when I first listened I don't think I cared very much at all about him at this point. This time around, his and AuDy's relationship intrigues me expecially with how Jack has been playing them.
Player character update...: AuDy is still my favourite. I still don't quite know what to do with Cass, but maybe I'll get there soon? Mako's funny. Though, and I thought I posted about this? But I can't find it now, an arc this episode also brings the morality of fogging robots onscreen for a bit. AuDy's upset by it. I think the notion of the robot he fogs getting more sentient is interesting...? Expecially if you draw a connection to what gives Mako the ability to do it in the first place. ... I won't say more here because I'm not actually sure but it's definitly running via Rightenousness a little bit, right? No clue if those facts are actually connected or not though. Uhm. I like Aria : ). Not many notes there so far, pretty much just the same stuff I said last time (I'm paying more attention to her where I feel like I hadn't as much on my first listen due to Ali being a little more reserved as a player this early on).
Further up I already talked about the switch to The Sprawl & I know the reasons and agree. however. I do think it's fun when they come up with adjectives, even if it messed with the pacing a bit because it took some time to do well. There's still a bit of this with other games they play later, too, like naming risks in Armor Astir or... whatever it was called to take something in Scum & Villainy (I recently relistened to the bit where Gig gets crushed and blown up and is VERY upset by it. It's still very funny).
Another thing I'm noticing more is that I'm occasionally a bit wonky on the factions, even super major ones ( OriCon vs. the Diaspora). I think it's because I didn't listen to the worldbuilding ep... I remember it having pretty rough audio (though probably not worse than that epispde of AiH where you couldn't hear Art at all), and also I skipped it back when I first listened, too (I'd bounced off before. I feel like I've mentioned this). It made some stuff in these episodes a bit hard to keep track of, expecially talking about the food crisis, and who is affected, and who is blamed, etc. (& I very much enjoyed all that! Like oh! We're getting into it now! Space factions and their politics and their effect on the world our characters move in! This rules. Friends at the Table rules)
Faction Game
Sylvi is so ON it with the faction game it's crazy. The other day while listening I remembered this was her first season on the show, like... damn!!! Just a ton of great ideas. It's really fun seeing them all be so enthusiastic about this.
Really good and fun faction game. I'm enjoying these a ton. A lot of my favourite scenes (or very memorable ones) from my first listen is faction game stuff, so I knew I'd like it, but I'm like REALLY really enjoying it. I've already said this in my other post, but I'm pretty sure it's due to the fact I can pay attention better & parse information.
It's a real big one too with a ton stuff getting set up. RIGOUR, Ibex, the Hands of Grace (hi Vicuna), some first September Institute stuff (like how fogging works!), and Loyalty gets introduced in that episode (hi Kobus, also). A lot of Divines, really!
I'll get to this very big and important thing first: Rigour getting dug up!!! I totally didn't remember Austin immediately namedrops it at the end of the episode, lol. That probably wouldn't happen now, but these early seasons are more. informal? just less produced? And I really don't dislike it, it's simply a different vibe. And I'm liking it. (The rough-ish audio is also part of it IMO. Love to hear the static white noise if a mediocre mic under their voices.)
I do still really like that scene though. Very effective. The image of a worker getting out of his mech to dig the last bit with his hands... It's good shit. Also just. RIGOUR. It maybe even hits more this second time around, because I know just What has been uncovered here and the consequences it will have.
Another is Ibex getting introduced! Hi!!!! : ) Apparently he's something called a "seductress" (or well. seductor) in the games rules, which I extremely forgot and made me laugh when I heard it. And then they proceed to come up with pretty much his whole deal, which Austin's performance is gonna finetune & shape more later on. I'm just excited! I like this guy!
(Something I'm trying to do more this time around is take notes to look stuff up later, like what animals the Candidates are named after. I didn't do this for Ibex until sometime last year! Cool animal.)
This faction game also has the first appearance of Diego Rose who I have in mind as sort of Sylvi's special little guy? He's a pretty important guy in the faction that she plays, so I'm just gonna assume he'll show up way more in the future. But really I just loved that scene of him offering a prisoner they took after he shot their ships down to join the Odama Fleet while also threatening him. And he's soooo cunty about it it's so funny to me. Great job.
Tacking this on the end here: I had to look up the summary on the fatt.wiki because it's really been a while since I started this ep vs. finishing it, and this is like the first scene they play through. (The new season got in the way...!) But yeah this episode also has Grace's first real major appearance (& her Candidates, Vicuna). And it's a great scene! I think it's the first Divine onscreen? And showing one's influence on people ("People in the crowd, some of them begin crying and wailing. It is a religious experience for many."). It's good shit!!! I love Divines!!! They've never stopped being cool as fuck as a concept and there really wasn't a point when they weren't. It's just SO good and it'll only ever get pushed further and in even more interesting directions. And it's nice to be back here, at the start.
????
This is neither here nor there. Not anywhere really. But at some point Jack says "no that's undertale" (I didn't note down what about.) %& it really threw me for some reason like ik the years match up. But I just have C/W in mind as like... ages ago... (it was) and Undertale. Is Undertale. /I/ played Undertale! And that wasn't ages ago (lie) (it was)! Like I was probably playing Undertale when they made this season! Strange to think about.
Grace's arrival(?)
I want to try and draw a little image for each of these sets (though this one took me a bit longer than I would've liked). Here's Grace('s feet, because she's so big) and the sculpture park on Gemm
I'm not actually sure why (I don't think it gets mentioned in the episode???) but I've always imagined that planet (Gemm) as like, really foggy. Maybe because fog + ruined statue park looks really cool? + Graces light through the fog? Yeah, I don't know. The park is also empty here, when of course there's a whole parade and stuff in the episode, but this is just an image (an approximation of it.) I have in my head...
#i wrote the most on the faction game bc i finished the last few mins Today. and listened to about half yesterday#counterweightposting#i like counterweightblogging better it sounds more right but for the sake of being consistent.....#i structured this but I don't know if I'll keep that. though it does look nice!
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Post Crisis Cassandra Cain - A Summary
Well, folks, this is it – we have gone through all of Cassandra’s Post Crisis material (at least that of certain chronology)! What a ride! Now it is time to take one more look at the tag counter, before we reset everything for the New 52/Rebirth. Without further ado, here’s the final tally (with changes from the previous counter summary in brackets):
Aphasia: 88 (+16)
Living Emoji: 78 (+2)
Little Lady Of War: 53 (+13)
Batdad: 52 (+6)
Batmom: 50 (+6)
Dubious Characterization: 49 (+33)
Fast As Lightning: 45 (+3)
Fiercely Assertive Protector: 26 (+1)
Ghost Of Failures Past: 25 (+9)
Symbolism!: 24 (+6)
Creepy Bat: 24 (+8)
Cass Sass: 23 (+9)
Plight Of Permanent Perfectionism: 14
Better Off Dead: 13
Unusual mannerisms: 9
Made Of Steel: 9
Retchcon: 9 (+9)
Ballet Battler: 2
Spells ‘Team’ With An ‘I’: 2
First of all, as we can see, there were some traits to Cass’ character that can best be labelled as a case of Early Installment Weirdness and disappeared from her characterization after her defeat of Shiva.
Secondly, damn that Retchcon and Dubious Characterization counter! Late Post Crisis was really not kind to Cass, with Beechen in particular running her into the ground at every opportunity. Even just looking at it now hurts.
Thirdly, ignoring all the crappy Retchcons and Dubious Characterization, we now have a very clear picture of who Cass is. Her most defining traits remain:
Her aphasia, which resulted in her being very expressive with her body language and continued being an issue of varying degrees of severity, even after she learned to understand spoken language. Cass does not give grand speeches and reading is a very taxing process for her, but she did improve over the course of her Post Crisis history.
Her insane combat skills (Little Lady Of War), which, combined with her very assertive style of handling problems, her insane speed, and her very tacit nature, often caused people to be at least intimidated and sometimes even downright terrified of her.
Her tendency to blame herself for past failures, whether they are people she failed to save or mistakes she made while on the job. This is especially relevant since Cass’ loyalty is not towards any one person, but towards what the bat symbol represents.
Her tendency to sass out her opponents (and sometimes allies) with what little words she uses.
Now, as for her relationship with the Batfam, the following can be said in summary:
Bruce was both a mentor and a father figure to her, from the beginning to the end, with varying degrees of heartwarming/jerkish behavior. The latter was usually a result of post Jason’s death causing Bruce to be an emotional brick and put the mission before everything else. For most of the story… Cass did not mind all too much, at least if you can ignore Beechen’s retcons, although she was still happy about her eventual adoption. That said: if you ever want to trigger the Batdad in Bruce, let someone catcall after Cass and he’ll probably break the guy’s jaw.
Barbara was essentially Cass’s mother figure and trying very hard to nurture Cass’ civilian identity, much in contrast to Bruce’s and Cassandra’s approach. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cass established a similar, if brief, relationship with Brenda while in Blüdhaven – another redhead with a kind, but firm approach to encouraging Cass to actually live her life for her own sake. It is a crying shame that the Barb and Cass had very few interactions after War Games, but it is hardly surprising, given that DC was in the process of writing almost every single woman/girl in the Batman stories out of these stories. One thing that should be mentioned: barring that single brain fart in Birds of Prey Vol 2, Barbara has always had Cass’ back, even during times when other members of the family did not trust her.
Speaking of which: Dick Grayson. Oh boy. This relationship started relatively neutral, with Dick being very much ok with Cass in their first interaction, despite Cass’ disability and her related quirks. Then it became heartwarming on screen, with Dick quickly coming to Cassandra’s aid and making sure she was okay during the “Soul” drug storyline in Batgirl and being very upset when she let him hit her during the Bruce Wayne: Murderer? storyline, as well as off screen, since he apparently acted out all the parts of Cinderella for her at one point. Then it took a complete nose dive into the opposite direction following Cass’ asinine turn to evil, which led to Dick being openly hostile towards her and not trusting her with… well, pretty much anything. It took Alfred shouting at him to reconcile the two and while their last few interactions were of the reasonably friendly nature again, it was too little too late. What a mess.
As for Tim, he went from not trusting her during their initial interaction to gradually accepting her as a member of the family to being very supportive of her and a very good friend, especially following War Games, when the two of them worked together in Blüdhaven. In contrast to Dick, Tim was much more willing to forgive Cass for her actions during her turn to evil and maintained a good, friendly relationship with her, even after she moved to Hong Kong. He was the one who gave her the Blackbat suit and reminded her that she was family and he was also the one who worked with her the most. Last but not least, he did not put up with Damian’s bullshit about Cass in Gates of Gotham. Good job, Tim! You’ve been a very good brother to Cass.
Speaking of Damian, he had very little interaction with her and went from “she sounds wonderful” before they met to being very abrasive towards her after they met and calling her “spineless, naïve and fragile”. Honestly, it comes across very unconvincingly and much more like Damian’s bruised ego trying to defend himself from someone who does actually live up to her reputation may be legitimately better than him in certain aspects. Either way, there is not much love lost between the two of them.
Next up: Stephanie. During their first meeting, Cass was rather cold towards Stephanie, mostly because of their difference in skill level. Cass’ concern about Stephanie not being strong enough to do the job remained for a long time, but she still grew to like and respect her as a friend and partner eventually, to the point where Stephanie could arguably be called Cass’ best friend. They chatted about boys, they played rooftop tag together, they discussed important changes in their lives, such as Stephanie becoming Robin. During War Games, Cass wanted to go looking for Steph because she was worried about her and only didn’t because Bruce promised he’d do it instead. Steph’s ‘death’ hit Cassandra hard, to the point where she hallucinated Stephanie being the one to greet her and comfort her on the other side of the pearly gates during two (near)death experiences. During Convergence, Stephanie and Cass lived together for a full year, supporting each other both physically and emotionally. Stephanie is, without the doubt, the best friend Cassandra ever had.
Finally, there is Alfred (because DC were cowards and never gave us Cass & Jason). Alfred, as always, was a real treasure. At first, he merely took care of Cass’ own Batcave home and later her apartment near Gotham U as per Bruce’s request. Then he went through the trouble of finding her the perfect apartment/secret cave combination in Blüdhaven. He was shocked to hear of her supposed death and upon her return to the Batfam and her moving into Wayne Manor was quick to point out that Cass felt like she did not belong there and that they should do more to reassure her that this was really her home and her family now, with no strings attached. More than anybody else in the family, Alfred recognized the often self-destructive need Cass felt to redeem herself for past failings and it is only thanks to his intervention that Dick reconciled with Cass. In short, over time, Alfred has come to care deeply about Cass, as he does about all the children that ever fought alongside Bruce/Batman.
Last but not least, a few notable mentions about other relationships Cass had with various people:
Cassandra has a complicated relationship with her father, if you ignore Adam Beechen’s horrible retcons. For eight years, Cain was all she had, and while she recognizes that he is a horrible human being and a lousy father (she beat him into a pulp over this), she also recognizes that he does actually care about her. As a result, Cass is not friendly with him, but she is not cruel towards him either.
Her mother, Lady Shiva, barely had anything to do with her and left her in Cain’s hands an hour after Cass was born. She mainly saw Cass as a tool (someone to finally defeat her in combat and later someone to help Nyssa Raatko lead the League Of Assassins), but showed at least some motherly concern when it was believed that Cassandra had been killed and Shiva helped Tim investigate her murder.
One of the few people she was close to before operating independently as Batgirl was Leslie Thompkins. Cass has insane respect for Leslie, because of her iron pacifist nature and was deeply saddened when Leslie broke ties with her during War Games. We sadly never got to see reunite on page.
Cassandra has had a rocky relationship with Huntress, mostly because Cass is staunchly anti-killing and because Batman took the Batgirl mantle from Huntress and gave it to Cass. Mind you, Barbara never approved of Helena as Batgirl.
She got along very well with Onyx, thanks to Onyx having been with the League Of Assassins before and thus actually being a challenge for Cass, while being a genuinely good person. Sad we didn’t get to see much of these two together.
Azrael (Jean-Paul) had a crush on her, which Cass did not quite reciprocate, but she wasn’t unfriendly to him either.
The first boy she ever kissed was Connor Kent (Superboy), even though she was annoyed with his way-too-carefree nature and his focus on her physical attractiveness. They broke up amicably.
She had three more dates with guys, none of which went anywhere.
And to round off our summary, here are some nice little bits and pieces of Cass
The first words she learned were, in chronological order: (thanks - incomplete), (goodbye - incomplete), stop, no, me, shutup, what, why, stay, instinct
She was 17 years old at the time of her introduction. Her birthday is January 26th.
Her favorite ice cream flavor is chocolate.
Cass is a big and messy eater.
Her home is very untidy and while in the manor she did not customize her room at all (no pictures or other mementos).
She likes horror movies (she really enjoyed Alien).
She is probably the only person in the family who really wants to be the next Batman and actually became Batman in some timelines/alternate universes.
She likes rice krispies, Assam tea, and long showers.
Cass can’t hold her liquor.
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Timeline: Batman
google doc / ao3
This is my best attempt at a post-crisis timeline based on age-- specifically Bruce’s age every time he adopted and/or met one of his children.
List of events:
Bruce’s parents die
Bruce becomes Batman
Dick’s parents die
Dick becomes Robin
Jason becomes Robin and is adopted
Jason dies
Tim becomes Robin
Cass appears
Dick is adopted
Tim is adopted
Cass is adopted
Damian becomes Robin
I’ll be citing my work by issue and panel. This isn’t my most organized work, and I don’t know how well tumblr will let me translate it, so I do recommend the google doc. I imagine the image quality here won’t be great.
Notes:
This is a post-crisis timeline (1986-2011). I’ll be referencing a few pre-crisis panels, but I won’t be touching the New 52 or anything after it. That’s a different game of ball with its own, extremely bad, timeline.
Crisis on Infinite Earths is a 1985-1986 series that rebooted the DC timeline and altered some backstories, including Jason’s. Pre-crisis, his backstory was almost identical to Dick’s. Post-crisis, he changed to the “steal the wheels off the Batmobile” origin. Anything written before 1986 is a weak source for my purposes.
My original question centered around Bruce’s age through the process of meeting and acquiring his children. In this timeline, those children are (1) Dick Grayson, (2) Jason Todd, (3) Cassandra Cain, (4) Tim Drake, and (5) Damian Wayne. I was envisioning an interview where the kids explain their family timeline to outsiders. I did not anticipate the project taking this long.
We’re talking about 72 years of content here, which means decades of contradiction, conflation, and rewrites. I’m pretty satisfied with my work product, but please understand that there are no perfect answers. I’m going to cite my sources, and I’ll do my best to explain why I chose those sources specifically, but it’s pretty likely that for every panel I pull, there will be others with different numbers. We’re all going to have to live with that.
Event timeline
*I’m defining Jason’s age by the time elapsed since his birth, but you could make an argument for using time he has been alive, which is, of course, different. That’s why the parentheses are there.
Age differences
As Robin
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Bruce’s parents die
Pretty consistently, Bruce is written as eight years old the night his parents died.
Detective Comics #0 (1994)
This is a zero issue where Bruce thinks back on his origin story. It was written long after Crisis on Infinite Earths (1986), and I tend to give a lot of weight to ages written in summaries of past plot lines, my reasoning being that it’s easier to be consistent in one issue than it is to be consistent through a month to month story.
Bruce first appeared as an adult in Detective Comics #27 (1939), and the Waynes were already dead at that point, so flashbacks are the only available material anyway.
Gotham Knights #6 (2000)
The text is Hugo Strange talking about Bruce, and the image is Tim and Dick playing at Wayne Enterprises.
I’ll take a second here to note that I did find at least one alternate age for Bruce— in Superman/Batman Secret Files & Origins (2003), Bruce was 10 when his parents died. I’m disregarding that in favor of the stronger 8 year old timeline, especially in light of Batman #404 (1987).
Batman #404 is the beginning of Batman: Year One, which was explicitly written to clarify the Batman timeline post-crisis, and it’s the basis of most of my calculations for Bruce and Dick’s ages.
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Bruce becomes Batman
According to Year One, Bruce was 26 years old when he became Batman. I’m using his age at his parents’ deaths, his age when he returned to Gotham, and his 18 year timeline.
Batman #404 puts Bruce at age 25 when he returned to Gotham in January.
Batman #404 (1987)
Bruce gives his dramatic, “Yes, Father, I will become a bat,” line in March. In the same scene, he says that it has been 18 years since his parents’ deaths. Knowing that they died when Bruce was eight, that puts Bruce at 26 years old the day he became Batman, which makes sense considering Bruce’s birthday is usually set at February 19th.
He was 25 in January, turned 26 in February, and became Batman at 26, 18 years after his parents’ death.
Batman #404 (1987)
Post-crisis, DC built timelines off the “Year” model. Year One is Batman’s beginning, and events after that are measured by how far away they are from the year Bruce became Batman. I’ll be using the Year model for Dick’s life events next.
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Dick’s parents die
The Graysons died in Year Two. Using the Year Model, Dick was 12 when his parents died, and Bruce was 37.
Year timelines appear a fair amount, especially in issues titled “Secret Files & Origins.” I pulled this bit from Batman Secret Files & Origins (1997) because it was the easiest to screenshot.
Batman Secret Files & Origins (1997)
Year Two would place Bruce at 27 years old. I’m calculating Dick’s age backwards, based on him being 13 years old during Year Three.
Batman Secret Files & Origins (1997)
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Dick becomes Robin
Dick became Robin in Year Three, when he was 13 years old and Bruce was 28. I’m using two different issues to calculate the number.
Batman #441 (1989)
Batman #441 is from Tim’s introduction story. It takes place “months” after Jason’s death. We’ll get to that part. In Batman #441, Tim asked Dick to be Robin again in order to help Bruce, who was visibly unstable after Jason’s death. Dick says that he can’t go back to being Robin, just like he can’t go back to being 13 years old. The strong implication there is that Dick became Robin at 13, which corresponds to Dick’s statements in Batman #416 (1988).
In Batman #416, Dick as Nightwing returns to confront Bruce about Jason becoming Robin. He says that he was Robin for six years, and he stopped being Robin at 19.
Batman #416 (1988)
If Dick stopped being Robin at 19, after 6 years, that would put him at 13 when he debuted as Robin, the same number from Batman #441 (1989).
Dick was 13 during Year Three, so 12 during Year Two, the year his parents died. Those numbers answer the first bit of my original question. I wanted to know how old Dick and Bruce were when Dick became his child. It’s a bit more of a complicated question for Dick, since he was originally Bruce’s ward, then adopted as an adult.
Based on the timeline so far, Dick became Bruce’s ward at 12 years old, while Bruce was 27.
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Jason becomes Robin and is adopted
As previously discussed (see Notes), Jason’s timeline is complicated by Crisis on Infinite Earths (1985-1986). Pre-crisis, Jason first appeared in Batman #336 (1983) as a former circus acrobat very similar to Dick.
Jason’s origin story reboots at Batman #408 (1987), which describes the switch-off between Dick and Jason. I’m building a lot of my timeline off of that issue. At the beginning, Dick gets shot by the Joker, and as Bruce carries him away, the media ask if Robin is dead. Dick isn’t dead, but back at the manor, Bruce decides to retire Robin as a role, based on the idea that crimefighting is too dangerous for a child.
Batman #408 (1987)
This version is more or less from Bruce’s point of view, but there’s a contrasting version from Dick’s point of view later, in Batman #416 (1987). That one has a significantly different tone, and I already cited it once (page 13) because Dick talks about his age and the amount of time he was Robin.
Batman #408 (1987)
The second part of the issue takes place “weeks” later. Bruce goes to Crime Alley to mourn his parents on the anniversary of their death. He comes back to find that somebody stole the wheels off the Batmobile. The somebody was Jason, and by the end of Batman #409 (1987), Bruce is calling Jason “Robin.”
Batman #408 (1987) seems to divide Dick’s departure and Jason’s introduction by only “weeks,” in the post-crisis reboot. Dick’s version of the story in Batman #416 (1987) is much less charitable to Bruce— instead of ending on a panel of Bruce smiling, it shows the aftermath of Dick in tears as Bruce walks away. Dick goes on to describe leaving the house, going to college for a semester, then dropping out. According to Dick, Bruce didn’t even say goodbye.
Batman #416 (1987)
I don’t think the stories are contradictory; they’re just different experiences of the same events, separated by only eight issues. Dick tells us that he was 19 when he left Wayne Manor, and Bruce chooses his new Robin “weeks” later.
As a summary, we know that Bruce’s parents died when he was eight, and that 18 years passed before he became Batman at 26. One year later, Dick’s parents died while Bruce was 27. One year after that, Dick became Robin at the age of 13. From those facts, Bruce is 15 years older than Dick.
All of my calculations of Bruce’s age are based off of the age gap between him and Dick. Dick was 19 when Jason became Robin, so we know that at that time, Bruce was 34. We also know that at that time, Jason was 12.
I can’t show a source for that number because it appears on the letter page of Batman #408 (1987), Jason’s introduction.
Even after a significant amount of investigation, I can’t find a copy of the letter page, but it’s cited by enough secondary sources for me to be comfortable using it. That issue is specifically written to show Jason’s origin, so it makes sense that it would contain Jason’s age at inception, even if the number wasn’t in the actual exposition.
From Jason being 12, we can establish a seven-year age gap between Jason and Dick, who was 19 at the time. Now we know Bruce, Dick, and Jason’s ages, and the age differences between them.
Back to my original question— when did Bruce acquire Jason? We know that Bruce was 34 when Jason became his ward, and Jason was 12. The next question, however, is when did Bruce adopt Jason? On this one, I’m making an educated guess.
Again we have to differentiate between pre-crisis and post-crisis timelines. Pre-crisis, there’s a full storyline about the fact that Bruce did not adopt Jason, although not for lack of trying. In Batman #374 (1984), the Child Welfare Bureau investigates Bruce when it notices that Bruce has not adopted Jason— and is not even, in fact, his legal guardian.
Batman #374 (1984)
The rest of the storyline is about Jason’s custody. A villain named Natalia Knight (Nocturna) adopts Jason in an attempt to get Bruce to marry her in order to become Jason’s father. In the court scene in Batman #377 (1984), Bruce says that he filed to adopt Jason sometime beforehand, although it’s unclear to me whether he means he filed between those issues or the CWB documents were incomplete.
Natalia does adopt Jason in Batman #378 (1984), and he briefly lives with her before returning to Wayne Manor in Batman #381 (1985), directly before the reboot.
I’m including all of that for two reasons: first, I do think it’s important to clarify both this version and the post-crisis version I’m about to address. Second, I spent years under the impression that Bruce adopted Jason pre-crisis because of one, well-known scene.
Batman #377 (1984)
Batman #378 (1984)
Batman #381 (1985)
Donna Troy gets married in Tales of the Teen Titans #50 (1985). At the wedding, Bruce and Dick have a conversation about Jason and about their own relationship. A few of those panels get spread around because they contain what I would consider a defining moment between Dick and Bruce.
I’m certainly not complaining about the amount of times I’ve seen the wedding conversation, but I think that, in regards to Jason, seeing just those panels has created a misconception.
Tales of the Teen Titans #50 (1985)
Without context, it looks, at least to me, like Dick is saying that Bruce has adopted Jason pre-crisis, which isn’t true. This issue takes place between the Natalia adoption in Batman #378 (1984) and Jason’s return to the manor in Batman #381 (1985), and the panels directly before the exchange make that clear. I just didn’t see those panels until I looked through the whole issue for this project.
I’m reasonably certain that in the past, I publicly cited this issue as evidence of Jason’s adoption, and I was wrong about that. [Note: As it turns out, I was only partially wrong. See section Correction.]
Tales of the Teen Titans #50 (1985)
As we see, the wedding conversation is in the context of the Natalia adoption. With that cleared up, and with the pre-crisis timeline filled out, let’s move to post-crisis.
In my brief read-through of Batman #404-427 (1987-1988), I didn’t find any direct references to Jason’s status. Those issues begin at the reboot and end at Jason’s death. However, Dick and Jason’s statements after the fact do tell us that post-crisis, Bruce did adopt Jason.
In Batman #436 (1989), Dick returns to the manor in the direct aftermath of Jason’s death, and while he is there, he sees that Bruce removed any trace of Jason from the house. There aren’t any trophies in the Batcave, and there aren’t any pictures of Jason on the nightstand displaying Bruce’s family photos.
Dick says that Jason was Bruce’s son.
Batman #436 (1989)
I think it’s fair to ask whether Dick is being literal here, because even if Bruce hadn’t legally adopted Jason, it would still be more than appropriate to call them father and son. I’m not going to place my opinion solely on this kind of statement, even if it does appear pretty regularly from 1988 to the end of the timeline.
Green Arrow/Black Canary #4 (2007)
We get a more definite answer later, during Tim’s first appearance. In Tim’s origin story, he deduces Batman and Robin’s secret identities after he sees footage of Robin doing a type of flip that only the Flying Graysons could do. Tim was at the circus the night Dick’s parents died, so he saw Dick do the flip there, then saw Dick become an orphan.
Because Tim knew that Dick was the first Robin, he correctly identified Bruce as Batman and Jason as the second Robin. He tells Dick all of this in Batman #441 (1989).
Batman #441 (1989)
Tim does specifically use the word “adopts” here, and that’s good enough for me. The last part is guesswork— I don’t know for certain how old Jason and Bruce were when the adoption took place, but I’m electing to say Jason was 12, the same age as he was when he became Robin.
I picked that number both out of convenience and because Tim seems to be putting Jason’s adoption and the second Robin’s appearance at around the same time. With that in mind, I think that Jason was 12 years old both when he became Robin and when Bruce adopted him. Using the age gap we already established, that would put Bruce at age 34.
Circling back to my original question, Dick became Bruce’s ward when Dick was 12 and Bruce was 27. Jason became Bruce’s ward, then adoptive son when Jason was 12 and Bruce was 34.
At this point in the timeline, Bruce is 34 with one former ward and one adopted son.
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Correction
A few days after I wrote my section about Jason’s appearance and adoption, I realized that I was missing a panel citation in my discussion of Jason’s death. The panel is from New Titan #55 (1989), and you’ll see me cite it when I talk about Jason’s death certificate.
New Titans #55 (1989) is the issue where Dick, who is with the Teen Titans, finds out about Jason’s death. While I was combing through the issue for the panels I wanted, I reread a scene I had completely forgotten about. Dick goes back to the manor to speak to Bruce, and it doesn’t go well.
New Titans #55 (1989)
I have three comments here. First, I do think this scene is inconsistent with the simultaneous story in the Batman title. In this version, Dick and Bruce have a very aggressive confrontation, but in Batman #436 (1989), Dick appears to be returning to the manor for the first time since Jason died, and there isn’t any reference to a prior fight.
Putting that aside, Bruce does explicitly say that he adopted Jason, and that’s more, stronger verification of a post-crisis adoption. Lastly, it’s pretty clear that Bruce and Dick are talking about the wedding scene.
I already explained that the wedding scene is pre-crisis, and in the original text, that conversation is about Bruce wanting to, but not being able to, adopt Jason. New Titans #55 (1989) carries the wedding scene into post-crisis canon, changing the language in the process. In this version, Bruce has adopted Jason.
I was still wrong about the wedding scene because in the past, I used it as evidence of a pre-crisis adoption. It isn’t pre-crisis evidence, but it is, in a roundabout way, evidence of the post-crisis adoption. I wanted to clear that up before I move on to Jason’s death.
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Jason dies
Jason’s death is by far the shakiest point on my timeline, but I’ve chosen to put him at 15 the day he died in Batman #427 (1988).
I think it’s safe to say that Jason was either 14 or 15 when he died, and my basic conclusion is that running numbers doesn’t give me a definite answer. There’s a cop-out option based on an extraordinarily poor source, and I’m taking the cop-out.
The general consensus seems to be that Jason was 15 at his death, citation to Jason’s death certificate. Jason’s death certificate appears in two different places, and I think most folks conflate the two.
To my knowledge, the only copy of Jason’s death certificate in full appears in The Batman Files (2011), where it does list Jason’s age as 15.
The Batman Files (2011)
Now there is a partial copy in Batman Annual #25 (2006), which I would argue is a very reliable reference when it comes to Jason. That issue is part of the Under the Red Hood story, the one where Jason returns to Gotham for the first time after his resurrection. In fact, the specific annual issue has a timeline for Jason’s events counting forward from his death.
Here’s the problem: the issue doesn’t say his age at death. The partial copy of his death certificate looks like this.
Batman Annual #25 (2006)
I think that when most folks remember a death certificate, they think of this one, the one from a very important issue, instead of The Batman Files (2011) which, as noted, is a very bad source.
I have three issues with The Batman Files (2011): the format, the publishing date, and the other information on the certificate. First, The Batman Files (2011) isn’t a comic book at all. It’s a commemorative book published in collaboration with DC in 2011. Now I don’t think that fact completely removes the book as a source, but it certainly damages its value as one.
My problem with that date, 2011, is that it’s the year the New 52 premiered. I called it a commemorative book because it’s meant to be a look back at a fully complete timeline, a kind of “this is us saying goodbye” product. The date and format alone make me hesitant to cite the certificate, but on top of that, the certificate is inconsistent with prior canon.
I am intimately familiar with retcons and conflicting numbers in the DC timeline. I made a point at the beginning of this paper to tell you that although this is my best attempt to make a cohesive timeline, assuming that I can carve out a cohesive timeline is fundamentally flawed.
I’m not saying that a single contradictory number is enough to make me disregard a source. I am saying that in this particular conversation about an already suspect source, I’m going to take inconsistency into account.
In New Titans #55 (1989), the issue from Corrections, Dick finds out about Jason’s death because a team member notices Jason’s status is set at “unknown.” Dick uses Bruce’s passcode to access restricted information, and he and the Titans see that Jason’s real status is “deceased.”
The death certificate in The Batman Files (2011) marks Jason’s height at 4’6 and his age at 15. In contrast, Dick’s scene puts Jason at 5’4, and its only reference to Jason’s age is a very relatable question from Donna. “How old was he, anyway?”
New Titans #55 (1989)
There’s a substantial difference between the two heights, and I think it’s also worth noting that for a 15 year old American male, 4’6 is in the 0.1 height percentile. In the past, I and many others have tried to justify that height along the lines of Jason being malnourished or similarly afflicted. Personally, I liked the parallel between this height for Jason and Damian’s height at his own death in 2013, and I know I’ve talked about that in the past.
I’m not criticizing anyone for using the 4’6 number, but I do think the unlikelihood of a 15 year old that size is worth bringing up.
In summary, The Batman Files (2011) is so bad of a source that I’m only willing to use it as a last resort. Unfortunately, it’s time for a last resort.
I mentioned a timeline in Batman Annual #25 (2006) that counts forward from Jason’s death. I’m not going to use image cites here because they’re just isolated text boxes labeled either “six months later” or “one year later.”
Using that timeline, we know that Jason’s resurrection took place six months after his death. He spent one year in a coma, then one year on the street, then one year with the League of Assassins. Finally, he spent a nebulous time training before he returned to Gotham.
We know that Jason was gone for a minimum of three and a half years, then whatever time “training” includes. Personally, I’m applying my best attempt at comic logic to say he was missing for somewhere between three and four years.
To understand the next bit, I need to point out that from Jason’s death on, I’m going to be using Tim’s age to track time in the same way I’ve been using Dick’s so far.
As a reminder, I know what age Bruce was when Dick became Robin (28), and I know Dick’s age at the same point (13), so I know there’s a 15 year age difference. As I track Dick’s age through the timeline, I add 15 to get Bruce’s.
In the same way, I know what age Dick was when Jason became Robin (19), and I know Jason’s age at the same point (12), so I know there’s a 7 year age difference. I can use that number ongoing.
I know that Tim was 13 when he made his first appearance as Robin, and I’ll get into that in the next section. After that, I’m placing Dick, Tim, and Cass’s adoptions based on Tim’s age.
To do that, I need to know how much older Dick is than Tim, and I can only get that by knowing Jason’s age at his death, sort of.
How long was Jason Robin? If I had that information, I could establish Jason’s age by counting up from 12, the age when he became Robin, then establish Tim’s age from there.
I can’t really answer that question. There is a panel from Batman #436 where Dick, apparently in his first time at the manor since Jason’s death says the following.
Batman #436 (1989)
My instinctual interpretation is it’s been two years since he stopped being Robin at 19, making Dick 21 and Jason 14. In my opinion, that’s straightforward plain language, but it seems like I’m in the minority on that one, and most folks read it as Dick saying it’s been two years since he was last at the manor. We know from Batman #416 (1988) that Dick’s last visit to the manor was 18 months after Dick left home.
Batman #136 (1988)
I think the most honest thing to say is that Jason was Robin for an indeterminate amount of time that was somewhere between two and three years. I don’t know which number is closer. I also, if you remember, think that Jason was gone from Gotham for somewhere between three and four years, but I don’t know where in that range the real number is.
Here’s why absolutely nothing I’ve said in the past seven pages matters: I need to build my timeline based on the age gap between Jason and Tim.
I don’t know how old Tim was when Jason died.
I know how old Tim was at his first appearance as Robin, and that’s a different number.
We’ll finish this conversation in a moment.
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Tim becomes Robin
We begin, thankfully, with a straightforward fact. Tim’s first storyline spans Batman #440-442 (1989). The arc is called A Lonely Place of Dying, and we already talked about it. Tim, having watched Batman and Robin from the shadows for years, comes forwards in the aftermath of Jason’s death in an attempt to convince Dick to become Robin for a second time.
Batman #441 (1989)
We know that Tim was 13 years old at the time, but I do need to clarify exactly what time that was— an indeterminate amount of time after Jason’s death.
The word that pops up a couple of time in Tim’s first arc is “months,” from Tim and Two-Face. How many months? Who’s to say.
Batman #442 (1989)
So, from the top. We know that Bruce was eight when his parents died, 26 when he became Batman, 27 when he met Dick, 28 when Dick became Robin, and 34 when he met Jason.
Dick was 12 when he met Bruce, 13 when he became Robin, 19 when he left home and Jason became Robin.
Jason was 12 when he became Robin.
Bruce is 15 years older than Dick. Bruce is 22 years older than Jason.
Dick is 7 years older than Jason.
How long was Jason Robin? Unknown, but somewhere between two and three years. At that point, he died. “Months” after that, Tim was 13.
Here, we need to acknowledge that Jason could have been either 14 or 15 at his death, and at the same time, Tim was either 12 or 13. We need to know how far they are apart to calculate Tim’s age in relation to Jason, Dick, and Bruce— ongoing, we will always know exactly how old Tim is, so (if we know how far apart Jason and Tim are) we will always know Bruce, Dick, and Jason’s age from there.
How much older than Tim is Jason? Somewhere between one and three years, I guess, but I can’t really go beyond a well-researched guess. In my opinion, there isn’t a straightforward answer for this one.
Having presented my facts, here is my conclusion. Jason was 15 when he died. At the same time, Tim was 13. They are two years apart.
Why? To begin, I’m more comfortable using the number we already have for Tim, 13, than I am dropping him to 12 on the mere possibility that he could have been 12.
Second, even though The Batman Files (2011) is a terrible source, it does at least sort of indicate that the official DC position is a Jason who was 15 years old at his death.
Third, visually speaking, Jason looks closer to 15 than 14 at his death. Is that good evidence? No, absolutely not. Comic book art is definitionally variable, but I am going to pull a few panels for you to look over.
Batman #427 (1988)
Finally, I feel that Jason and Tim are, in later works, treated as if they are different ages. I’m not going to go into much detail on that one because it is purely a personal reaction, but I would refer to Teen Titans #29 (2005) as an example. That issue has Jason and Tim’s first meeting, after Jason comes to the tower specifically to attack Tim.
Teen Titans #27 (2005)
Another well-known issue to check out is Teen Titans #47 (2007).
My basic position is that there are so many ways, all uncertain, to slice Jason and Tim’s ages that I can take my pick. I chose the ones that most closely mirror later canon, fall most squarely into the possible range, and feel the most intuitively right.
They also have the benefit of simplicity, which was very much a factor.
Don’t agree with me? Fair enough. I think I’ve given you enough information to make an educated judgment, and I’ve also gone ahead and made a timeline in the alternative. In this one, Jason was 14 at death, and he and Tim are only one year apart.
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In the Alternative
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Cass appears
Having progressed beyond Jason and Tim’s age gap, we reenter simple canon. I hope you’re as pleased as I am.
Cass was 17 years old at her first appearance, which we can establish easily based on two different issues. Cass first appears in Batman #567 (1999), during an arc called No Man’s Land. At the time, she is working for Barbara Gordon in the aftermath of an earthquake that destroyed most of Gotham. We learn Cass’s backstory through that issue.
Cass’s biological father is David Cain, a villain, who raised Cass in isolation, never exposing her to a verbal language or allowing any kind of socialization. By comic book logic, her upbringing gave her a near-superhuman ability to understand and anticipate physical actions, as those actions are her only form of communication.
Cain trained her as a child assassin, then took her to her first kill. Cass murdered a man and experienced, through his body language, the pain he felt at his death. Immediately afterward, she ran away from her father.
Batgirl #62 (2005)
We know that Cass was eight years old when she killed and ran. We also know that her first appearance in Gotham was nine years after she ran, thanks to Barbara Gordon’s file.
Batgirl #1 (2000)
Simple enough. She was 17. How old was everybody else? We find out from Tim’s timeline.
This next bit will come up a few times. We know that Tim was 15 from at least 1993 to 2003, established by three different issues. We know from Detective Comics #668 (1993) that Tim was 15 during Knightquest, the arc where Jean-Paul Valley was briefly Batman. Barbara tells us in 2002 that Tim is still 15, and Tim turns 16 on-panel in 2003.
In Knightquest, Tim gets his driver’s license early, at age 15, because Jack Drake is in a wheelchair. I suppose the wording here is ambiguous on a technicality, but I don’t think there’s any significant argument against Tim being 15; if he was only 14, the language would be different.
Detective Comics #668 (1993)
Next, in Batgirl #24 (2002), Barbara says she’s “sending a 15 year old” as she reaches for Tim’s com line.
Batgirl #24 (2002)
We could stop here for Cassandra’s appearance, since that happened in 1999, between the 1993 issue and the 2002 reference. For completion’s sake, however, let’s note that Robin #116 (2003) is about Tim’s 16th birthday. He forgets about it, so his step-mother throws a surprise party.
Robin #116 (2003)
Okay, so Tim was 15 when Cass appeared at age 17. That puts Bruce at 39, Dick at 24, and Jason at 17 if you’re counting by years elapsed since his birth.
Bruce met his daughter when he was 39 and she was 17, in reference to my original question. Cass is 22 years younger than Bruce, seven years younger than Dick, the same age as Jason, and two years older than Tim.
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Dick is adopted
This one, having already established Tim’s timeline, is very simple. Dick was adopted in Gotham Knights #17 (2001).
Gotham Knights #17 (2001)
Again, Tim was 15 from 1993 to 2003, and 2001 falls within that range. Tim was 15, which makes Dick 24 and Bruce 39.
At this point in the timeline, Bruce, a 39 year old, has two adopted children, one of whom is deceased as far as Bruce is concerned. His adopted children are (17) and 24. He has already met two of his future children, Cass and Tim.
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This is PART ONE. I’ll reblog Part Two onto this post when I wake up, which should be around the same time this posts.
#PART ONE of two#I'm going to reblog the last 10 pages onto this post as soon as it comes off the queue#timeline#mine#really lame that I can fit 50 pages into a post but then the last10 is too much
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Comparing KO’s (OK KO) Character Arc to Cassandra’s (TTS)
Ok THIS^ actually bothers me and I really hope it’s a shit-post. Sorry, @astratic, but you have inadvertently signed up for some Character Analysis.
Let’s establish one critical difference between Cassandra and KO before we really dig into this shall we?
Cassandra is a fully developed, fully functional adult roughly in her early to mid twenties.
KO is a CHILD, who’s age is literally 6-11, though fans typically agree that he acts in the 8-9 range. Additionally, he is commonly head cannoned to be on the Autistic Scale and/or ADHD.
Because of this, their decisions and actions need to be seen through different lenses.
Point 1: work tirelessly to become a hero like [parent] who you idolize
KO:
This statement perfectly depicts KO’s goals. KO strives to be a hero in order to help people to the best of his abilities. He hates being useless and powerless to help his friends, so he trains to be a better hero and works through his struggles with their help. He lives to be like his mommy and his father-figure. I mean, look at him when Gar praises KO and tells him how proud he is of him.
Cassandra:
Cassandra’s goals are different. She wants to be a guard at the end of the day for glory. She wants people to see and acknowledge her abilities and strength and admire her for it.
Yes, making her dad proud is a benefit of that, but that is NOT her driving motivation.
Point 2: Become discourage by lack of progress and hindrance by social status
KO:
Social status was NEVER KO’s problem. His stalling in progress, as I mentioned in another post, was a mental block. He couldn’t tap into his power He came from lower middle, working class family with a single mom.
Cassandra:
Social Status was her problem, but only up until the 1st season finale where she was placed as Captain of the Guard.
She had regular progress in getting more time and respect as a royal guard. The fact that She CHOSE to leave that behind in order to follow her crush on some half-baked, unplanned road trip is only the fault of her own. She threw out the chance she had been waiting for for her entire life to follow Rapunzel.
And than was given numerous opportunities through out the trip to leave and pursue other goals.
Point 3. Be Mentally Ill
Okay, first OP, you could phrased that WAY better.
Secondly, the mental struggles our characters face are completely different and largely incomparable so to group the two is insulting to both characters.
KO:
Disassociative Identity Disorder (or multiple personality disorder)
Possible Undiagnosed Autism and or ADHD
KO develops Disassociative Identity Disorder, due to his frustration at lack of progress, the manipulation of Shadowy figure, and his bottling up of negative emotions. KO is mostly unaware of what happens when TKO is in charge and vice-versa. It took the two a long time to figure out how to work together and eventually merge back into one personality.
He also demonstrates some traits typically associated with Autism and ADHD, though some of those could be on account of his age. It is a common head cannon amongst fans that his either and sometimes both.
Cassandra:
Cassandra doesn’t have to deal with any mental illness until the season 3 finale where it can be gleamed that she’s working through depression if you squint at it.
Yes, there is the Blueberry Ghost, but she was never a result of Cass’ mental state so much as her being host to the Moon Stone.
Her struggles lie in reigning in her anger and her pride so that she can see problems from unbiased perspectives and apologize for her actions. And that is left still unresolved by the time the finale comes around.
Point 4. find out long lost parent is actually horrifically villainous and have a whole crisis about it.
Perhaps, we need a little reminder here before I dig into this one:
KO is a child figuring himself out and Cassandra is an adult figuring out what she wants in life.
KO:
KO had been struggling with his darker side for quite some time before he asked his Mom about who exactly his dad was.
This was something the show had demonstrated time after time that bothered KO, not knowing who his dad was.
So he finds out his dad was this big time hero, and gets reassurance from that fact that he comes from great heroes, so he too can be a hero. Only for that to be immediately tossed out the window when it’s revealed that the only person he hates in the entire world, the person he dubs as the truly evil villain, is actually his father.
His whole world is not only shook to its core, but his self-confidence as well. Laserblast was a great hero who turned villain; what does that mean for a hero-in-training whose already struggling with that darker side.
Praise Carol for not killing PV on the spot.
Additionally, PV didn’t actually know KO even existed until a few months before this incident, and wasn’t even sure if KO was his kid (KO does coincidentally share a lot of Physical attributes to Gar) until KO came busting in, wearing Laserblast’s helmet and bragging about how his dad was a great hero.
So when they attempted to have that father-son relationship, it was as awkward and strained as it should have been. (I’ll get to the OK KO Finale in just a minute)
Cassandra:
Cass could have cared less as to whom her real parents were. She had her dad. She had her goals. She had her job. Who her parents were and why they dumped her on the Captain was irrelevant to her life.
She didn’t care until Season 3, and that whole season was OOC for everybody,
Even then, it wasn’t so much as a crisis so much as an excuse to use to fight Rapunzel. It didn’t matter that Gothel was her mother, it mattered that Gothel picked the Sundrop over her. Which in all honesty was the best thing that could have happened to Cass.
Her “crisis” revolved around a dead woman’s shattered legacy more than her mother.
Point 5: Fall under the influence of said Villainous parental figure
KO TKO: (again, a CHILD)
TKO was used and manipulated into letting his darker side show by Professor Venomous/ Shadowy Figure, (this is my opinion), in order to actually have something they could relate to eachother on.
Yes, Shadowy Venomous saw TKO as more of his tool for power, but you can’t deny that he wasn’t motivated to have his son by his side.
Additionally, KO had at this point literally locked away a part of himself because he didn’t have the tools to deal TKO with this mentally or emotionally. So he responded the best way he could and pushed the problem down so he and others wouldn’t have to keep cleaning up TKO’s messes.
KO was in desperate need for someone to understand how he was and how to help him.
And guess who was there.
Cassandra: (again, an ADULT)
Cass was never led on by Gothel, she was led on by Zhan Tiri.
Cass was delusioned that the moonstone was hers by Zhan Tiri just as much as Rapunzel was delusioned into thinking stopping the moonstone was her destiny by Demanitus.
However, Zhan Tiri really didn’t make Cass do anything, she never pushed her past the breaking point, she never forced her to do anything.
Baked Ziti only prompted Cass, reminding her what she was angry at.
Cass was perfectly capable of ignoring her and doing her own thing.
Point 6: suddenly and dramatically betray everyone you love even as they plead with you to stop. Become convinced they all hate you except for [villainous parental figure] who is actually just manipulating you to gain power.
This point is actually a very good description of what happened to both, given different contexts. Again, remember that KO is a child who is significantly more easily influenced than Cass should have been.
(Note: again, Zhan Tiri’s not her Parental figure and neither was Gothel)
Point 7: ruin everything and destroy your home
KO TKO:
His destructive rampage was motivated by the betrayal of the one person he believed to understand and support him entirely. He was literally grabbed by the shirt, lifted in the air, told he was nothing more than a tool at best, and that the plan to conquest together had been a lie.
Wonder where I’ve seen THAT BEFORE?
(Sorry about the low photo Quality, I quickly search and screen shotted so)
(yes it’s this scene that made me think Mad Ben and TKO would get along)
Cassandra:
Which betrayal are we talking about? Because both involve trained guards rightfully attacking Cass for injuring the crown royalty and wrecking the castle.
Point 8/9: snap out of it at the last second and be horrified at what you've wrought/ the world is fixed by an incredible magic. Reconcile with your loved ones. Flourish
KO:
This is accurate.
But KO didn’t have to lose his power to see how bad he messed up. He was actually at the top of his game. He probably could have taken out the President of the Universe if he really wanted to. Instead he begged for everything to get fixed, and wished that EVERYONE (even Professor Venomous) could live their best lives.
Cassandra:
She was only repentent AFTER she lost her power. Even then, she does not apologize for her actions but rather the circumstances and ONLY to Rapunzel herself. She does not care that she caused a world catastrophe, and still wouldn’t have had she won.
With how it was executed, Cass did NOT deserve such an easy redemption. She should have had to work at it. She should have at least attempted to apologize to the people whose lives she ruined. To the people she’s hurt. Not just Rapunzel. Rapunzel has no right to forgive her in place of everyone else.
Eugene should not have to forgive her.
Varian should not have to forgive her.
The Brotherhood honestly deserves to fight her in combat.
She should not have been able to ride off into the sunset and avoid the consequences of her actions.
BUT I digress.
IN SUMMARY:
KO and Cass, while they share some similarities, do NOT have the same Character Arc. At all.
Sincerely,
TheAngryComet
#I was enraged when I read this#Ok KO Let's be Heroes#OK KO#KO#TKO#MKO#Kaio Kincaid#Professor Venomous#Shadowy Figure#LaserBlast#Shadowy Venomous#Mr.Gar#Gar#Eugene Garcia#El Bow#Carol Kincaid#Silver Sparks#Carol Garcia#Tangled the Series#TTS#Rapunzel#Cassandra#Moon!Cass#Moon Cassandra#Lightly Salted#Erm..#okay more than a little#Salty#Salt#Character Analysis
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Do you have any fics with Jason just being a Bro™️? Or any with him rejoining the family after UTRH?
For the sake of this post not being too long, I am going to rec only one fic or series from an author, but all of these authors are great writers so I recommend checking their other works as well. Hope you will enjoy this fics as much as I do!
1. Jason and Damian being bros
1.1 Bet on it by Lysical
Even Damian could admit that his older siblings occasionally had their uses.
__
"I need your assistance," Damian said, voice low and tense.
"No," Jason replied, and hung up.
Short but adorable story of Jason helping out Damian to hide something from their father, just like big brothers out to do.
1.2 Cracked Foundation by Cdelphiki
The last thing Damian expected to happen when he ran away from home was to spend a day crammed into a small space with Jason Todd. His father's second son was a black sheep. An outcast. An angry, insanity driven criminal who enjoyed screwing with the batfamily in every way he could. At least, that's what Damian thought. Maybe he was wrong about Todd.
Perfect hurt/comfort with a lot of family feels and Damian and Jason bodning. Bonus points: Jason actually apologizing for shooting him; exploration of Bruce’s relationships with them both too.
1.3 Good Grief by lysiabeth
“I know who you are, you know. I got my degree at GCU.” The girl says, eyes boring into Jason’s chest as if the red bat were still plastered on it, and Jason’s back stiffens.
“Right.” Jason’s teeth click together as he closes his mouth. He’s eighteen-hundred miles out from Gotham, and of all the Goddamn vet centres he could have broken into it’s probably the only one around that knows anything about his city.
WIP with 8K words so far but worth early reading and bookmarking/subscribing. Case fic, plus Damian and Jason bonding as siblings through Talia? Leviathan also plays a part in this story? Hell yeah.
1.4 Jason and the Three Terrors by Cdelphiki
One moment, Jason was peacefully sleeping, perfectly content with his life with the League of Assassins. Okay, so maybe not content content, but he wasn't unhappy, either. Then Talia woke him up at 2 am, threw three children at him, and told him to get them to America and far away from Ra's al Ghul.
What the fuck.
The last thing he wanted was to see Bruce. But with three brats relying on him and no Talia, there weren't many options for sanctuary. He just didn't expect the kids to grow on him so much in two short weeks.
A superb AU where Jason helps Damian escape League of the Assassin (against his wishes and with two unwanted additions to boot, which is half the pleausure). They aren’t brothers, stictly speaking, at the start of the fic, but become them as the story progresses.
It’s a WIP but it has 50K already and it will be so much more. I am excited with every update and I’m sure you’re gonna be, too.
2. Jason being a brother to Cassandra
2.1 Nests and Cages series by LanternWisp, Lysical starting with Needles or Pins
Jason Todd's journey back to the Batfamily.
Takes place in the Frankenstein's monster of a canon I've stitched together. Each plot is rather self-contained, but the fics do flow into one another
Jay and Cass are bio siblings, and Jason’s slow return to the fold. I love this series, and I think it’s one of the greatest take on Lady Shiva being Jason’s mother too.
2.2 Didymous by Hinn_Raven
Didymous: adjective: growing in pairs or twins.
Cassandra and Jason are born twins, raised by their father to be killers. Two heads are better than one.
It’s a great AU with Jay and Cass being biological siblings.
2.3 the patron saint of the lost causes series by evanescent
Pre-Flashpoint AU based on canon what-if Lady Shiva was not only Cassandra's biological mother, but Jason's, too. Mostly focuses on Cass and Jason's relationship, and how that fact changes the dynamics in Batfamily.
It is also a great series with Cass and Jay being biological siblings and I recommend reading every fic of this series.
2.4 Rebirth by Ionaperidot
"The boy is clearly ill, and while she’s almost certain that he is, impossibly, Jason Todd, almost is not good enough. She can’t drop heartbreak on her beloved’s doorstep, and she can’t run the necessary tests when Damian is vulnerable to her father’s wrath. There’s no way around it. He’ll have to come home with her."
Unexpectedly in charge of a second son, Talia struggles to raise her children without unwanted attention from the Demon's Head.
An AU where Talia is the one who unites Cass and Jason. It also contains Damian, and he’s a little brother to them both.
3. Jason and Duke being bros
3.1 Bats are Dorks by Reah22
Duke hadn’t meant to literally trip and fall on to Jason. He really hadn’t. For the record, he blamed Steph. It was probably one of her old pranks that she forgot to take down. That, or she deliberately left it up for someone to trip over in the dark.
Just Duke and Jason, hanging out. Super nice.
3.2 oh, where do i begin? by LazuliQuetzal
“No, no, nothing’s wrong,” Jason says. “We’re a-okay. Just peachy. Good times.”
“Oh,” Duke says, lamely, working himself out of crisis mode. There’s an awkward silence for a moment before he speaks up again. “Why did you call?”
“Right, right," Jason mumbles, which seemed a little out of character to Duke. His sort-of wayward brother was generally intimidating, even when he wasn't trying to be. "Uh, Dick said that you had a guinea pig when you were younger. How do you take care of a guinea pig?”
_____
AKA, not-exactly accidental guinea pig acquisition
Absolutely adorable short story about Jason going to his little brother for advice.
3.3 rockstar au series by addiebey starting with disconnect:
jason and duke bond. dick just doesn't get it, but what's new?
Another great no-capes AU. Only two fics from the series, both under 1k, are focused on Duke and Jason, but they are so great. The whole series is, actually, though it’s not finished. I am just grateful even this much exists, but I am definitely bookmarking and subscribing it in case there will be more. Please give this series the attention and praise it deserves.
There are, alas, not many Duke and Jason-centered fics. Though there is another one I wanted to recommend, about Jason training Duke, but I can’t find it for some reason. It was short and funny, and if anyone recognizes this description, I would be glad if you told me.
4. Jason and Dick being bros
4.1 i was naive and hopeful and lost by heroics (figure8)
Clark and Bruce take in a troubled teen.
The The Fosters AU no one asked for.
It’s a part of the series which is one of the best no-capes AU I’ve read, if not the best, and it’s a great family-focused fic with a good parent Bruce. The road for Jason to become Dick’s and the rest of the kids’ brother is slow but greatly written.
4.2 To Reconcile by CasualDanger
“Babs slapped me at your funeral.” Jason goes to laugh, but it’s just a cough and his mouth barely even twitches up. “She hated me in that moment. I mean, really, really hated me, like I did Talia after I found out Damian had died. And I wondered,” his voice cracks, eyes glassy now, “did you hate anyone when I was gone? Because I was gone?”
Short and emotional fic where Dick and Jason open up to each other during pressing circumstances.
4.3 Five Times Dick Grayson Read about Jason Todd in the Newspaper by Engineerd
If Dick hadn’t been special ordering the Gotham City Gazette, he wouldn’t have found out for - well. Years, at this rate.
Short and very full of emotion story. I love the exploration of Dick’s almost unchanging attitude toward Jason - well, unchanging right before the last time he would read about him (or almost the last time). They’re not really close here, and won’t grow closer, but sometimes siblinghood is like that.
4.4 The View From Jade by lowflyingfruit
Being transported to the past is not the sort of thing one normally expects. But this having happened, and with no easy way back, Jason's determined to make the most of it. Though the Bat still stalks Gotham's streets, the city's crime is run by the mobs instead of the rogues. There's no Joker yet.
There's no Robin.
Maybe there shouldn't be.
Time Travel Jason&Dick focused AU! One of the best time travel fics where they actually change stuff even if it doesn’t transit to their universe - for exception of their more strong brotherly relationships.
5. Jason and Stephanie being bros
5.1 this time, the loser wins by parkerstorms
They were two sides of the same coin. They understood each other. It was nice. It was a downright relief. She’d never had a big brother before.
There’s not a lot of Jason and Steph being bros stories I have not mentioned before, but this one is one of them, and a great one too.
6. Jason and Tim being bros
6.1 Bonding Habits of Robins by GoAwayOlivia
Giving each other shit is how the bat brothers show they care. Jason and Tim do it particularly well.
It’s a funny and nice fic with exactly what’s said in the summary.
There’s a lot of fics with Jason and Tim being bros but my memorie went blank when I tried to recall. Which is not a statement about their relationships or quality of fics that depict them, it’s just sometimes my memory doesn’t work properly. This is the case with the Jason and Steph, too. As soon as I remember or discover new fics about their relationships, I am going to update this post or maybe create a new one just for the three of them. We’ll see!
7. Batfam Jason-featured sibling relationships
7.1 If the Sky Comes Falling Down (For You) by lurkinglurkerwholurks
or, 5 times Jason Todd saved his siblings... and one time they saved him.
It was only by luck that Jason was still there when the bodies came crashing down the street. Bad luck, he would argue. He could hear them long before he could see them, their bodies preceded by the thunderous pounding of boots of asphalt and shouted curses. Three or four figures flashed by his little alleyway, a tight mob followed by a lone, slender figure in a streaming cape.
Summary speaks for itself. It’s a gradual description of Jason slowly coming back to the family after UtRH and starting feeling like their brother.
7.2 this is a long drive (for three robins who don't agree on much) by drakefeathers
(Bad Robins road trip AU!) Steph’s trip home to Gotham takes a huge detour thanks to Jason and Damian’s conflicts with airport security. She’s stuck driving the two brothers cross-country to reach Tim’s wedding in time.
Damian, Jason & Steph bonding road trip AU that warms your heart. Seriously, if you like any of these characters, you read this.
7.3 on a thin chain of moments and something like faith series by irnan
Jason really oughta know better than to talk to Bats.
Jason bonding with both Steph and Cass! Love it. It’s fluff and angst, which is hard to pull off together, but it works here. It also, in places, incredibly funny. I love re-reading it from time to time.
7.4 Tremor by LueurdeLaube
Nobody can tell Jason Todd that joking about his own death is not a valid coping mechanism.
Not about Jason being a bro per se but about Batfam and Jason so I hope it counts!
7.5. the lost sidekick society by redtruthed
The batkids make a group chat.
Chaos ensues.
One of the best groupchat AU for Batfam.
#Jason Todd#Damian Wayne#Cassandra Cain#Duke Thomas#Dick Grayson#Stephanie Brown#Tim Drake#Family#Siblings#Gen Fic#Batfam
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TimKon Week 2020 Day 4: Happy Birthday to You!
Category: Gen or Pre-slash
Genre: Angst/Fluff, mostly fluff
Fandoms: DC Comics, Teamverse
Continuity: Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint Future AU
Summary: What kind of birthday party do you give a kid who was abused by her parents when your own birthdays were already outside of the norm?
Word Count: 1840
AN: Hola everyone. This was inspired by an old WIP of mine. it's kind of a plot bunny of a different fic.
Anyway enjoy
Prompt: Raising A Child - Fluff
Can be read on AO3
October 16th
It was Helena’s first birthday with them. Tim didn’t know what to do. To be fair he wasn’t familiar with children’s birthdays. Most of his had been spent with his parents being brought to shows he liked or that they’d thought he’d like. And then they forgot it one year and the next they were out of commission.
Helena came from an abusive home and he didn’t want to overwhelm her too much as she had been prone to having panic attacks when he didn’t pay attention and did something that was apparently outrageously nice. So he wanted her to have a great birthday but not so outrageous she’d faint.
Conner had made fun of him because he was apparently over worrying over “normal stuff”, but Conner was the last person allowed to talk to him about that. Partly because he hadn’t celebrated a normal birthday of his….ever, but also because the only kid’s birthdays he had gone to were Traya’s and Jon’s.
Still Conner had been there since the beginning so he kind of had a say in what they’d be doing for her birthday.
Speaking of which, they were supposed to meet for lunch for that exact purpose and Conner was late. For the 3rd time this week. It was getting real annoying real fast.
He looked at his phone to see if he had received any new message. And he had. Apparently Conner was late because he was walking with a classmate of his and couldn’t use his powers. So Tim waited.
Ten minutes later, Conner finally appeared around the corner. With a very pretty girl on his arm. Tim couldn’t believe Conner was late because he was flirting...Actually he could…He probably would have been too if he were in his place…If it was just a normal lunch but they were supposed to talk about Helena’s birthday! It was not a normal lunch.
Conner waved goodbye after the pretty girl kissed his cheek and then “sprinted” toward Tim who was crossing his arms in annoyance. As he arrived next to him Conner looked sheepish.
“Look I know what it looked like but she started talking about a school project at first and I couldn’t blow her off and then she said we were walking in the same direction so I had to….and then I used the opportunity, I wasn’t gonna miss that but still!”
Tim raised an eyebrow, just to mess with him but Conner saw right through him, untangled his arms by taking one of his hand and dragging him toward the restaurant Tim had been waiting in front of.
They settled down and started having their lunch when Tim received a new email notification. Which he showed to Conner. Now that could be a nice present.
- - - - - - - -
October 21st
Helena had had a fairly good day so far. Tim and Kon had woke her up with a cup of sweet tea and croissant while wishing her a happy birthday, Kon had even decided to accompany her alongside Tim this morning (even if he was gonna be late to class). Ana and Alois had also wished her a happy birthday and none of their teachers had given them any test.
Now it was time to go home and wait for Tim and Kon to come back home (well…Technically Kon already had his own apartment but he was there so rarely she hadn’t known about it for 7 months, when he talked about being with his girlfriend which had brought a new surprise as she had also thought he was in love with Tim. Even if they had told her immediately they weren’t).
Whatever. She hoped her da they wouldn’t be too long to get home as she usually was one her own for about three hours on her own before Kon would be there. And it had been so nice up until now.
But when she got out of the school, both Tim and Kon were waiting for her? Along with Bart, Cassie, Rose and Kiran.
She ran toward them and hugged Tim and Kon at the same time…kind of, she was way too small to manage but she tried and she considered that it was what mattered. She then went to hug the other four. Apparently they were gonna celebrate her birthday together. The only things missing were her Tim and Kon’s families. And a few others. Granted too many of them might be a bit too much for her. Family dinners at Wayne Manor were already too much even if there was never the full family roster at once.
When they arrived home however Anita and Cissie were waiting for them along with Donald and Oshi who lived with Anita and Cissie’s parents. Helena liked them, well…mostly Oshi. Most of the time Donald was not fun. They were a bit older than her but always nice.
They all ate very small pieces of cake (but her par Tim and Kon prevented her from eating more than two small pieces) and celebrated (with presents and everything). However at 4:30PM they had to leave though Bart promised he’d come back later. Only to be replaced by Jon, Ma, Lois and Clark. Who celebrated with a different, but still small, cake. At 6PM, they left too, only to be replaced by Dick, Alfred, Barbara, Bruce and Cass. With another cake. Now she understood why Tim and Kon had refused to let her eat more than two pieces every time.
So far this was the best birthday ever!
Her fath Tim and Kon had basically allowed her to celebrate her birthday with her favorite people without getting overwhelmed. She was getting tired though and nodding off on Dick’s lap. That was their cue to start leaving. Though Cass was staying with them for the night as would Bart.
Once they were all gone Tim and Kon had asked Cass if they could leave them alone. Once they did, they all sat down on the carpet. They both looked pretty serious. Oh no. She should have known it was too good to be true. But she had started getting used to this life. Was this whole birthday thing just there to butter her up? They were never this serious with her unless they were talking about her parents and her stay here with her foster dad, Tim.
Oh nononononononono. Did her parents get the right to get her back? No. Last she’d seen them they were trash talking the Court assigned parenting classes they were supposed to take. They shouldn’t be able to take her back.
Suddenly she felt a familiar weight on her shoulders and she heard Tim say “it’s okay, it’s not bad news, it’s simply important”.
The next few minutes were spent with Kon tracing circles against her back and Tim guiding her breathing until she calmed down.
Once that was done she was slowly being glided on Kon’s lap, probably by the hands on her shoulders, even if she felt like she was in a warm cocoon, she loved his TTK so much. Kon kept tracing small circles on her back while Tim was patting her head slowly.
That was actually rather nice. The only good part about her panicking way too easily.
But then Tim pulled away and got papers out of his bag. That was the cue to return to the conversation that hadn’t even started yet.
Tim took a big gulp of air. He seemed nervous. Which was making her nervous, but then Kon was hugging her and she felt better. She felt him nod against her.
“Ok so, it’s been a bit more than a year since you were found in the street and we hadn’t been able to celebrate your birthday back then aside from getting you actual clothes and furniture and a cake, so I wasn’t sure how to do this but I think up until now we managed pretty well. Now since your parents never made an effort to go to the court mandated parenting classes during that time, It’s actually possible for you to be adopted as of last week.”
She could feel her heart start shrinking. They were going to make her go away.
“Which is why I sent a form as soon as I was allowed to do so. Now of course it’ll depend on whether or not you also want to become officially my kid. I merely sent the form so that I could have the papers ready when we talked about it so here goes.
Helena, would you like to officially become my child and live with me until you decide you’re too good for me and move out to live your life even if you’ll always have a room here ? We had already kind of talked about it but it always seemed too soon for that. It’s nothing to feel pressurized about. I won’t be mad if you don’t want to and we just won’t sign the papers. It won’t change the fact that I love you and you’ll always have a home here if you want to”
Helena froze. She had been staying here for a year. Tim and Kon had taken care of her so much. But what if it was like with her previous adopted parents? They had loved her very much before her dad decided to close his shop. On the other hand Tim and Kon had Cass and Bart and Dick and everyone else also looking after her. She knew she could talk to them and be listened to. At least Bart and Cass would listen to her (Dick tended to be a bit blind about Tim’s shortcomings which was pretty cute most of the time but could be irritating at others). She could feel her eyes start to well up when she heard a voice from behind her.
“Maybe it was too much. We should probably wait before telling her the other news”.
She turned to Kon and asked him in the most polite way she could muster what he meant.
“What? What is it? Kon? You can’t just say that and not tell me! That’s no fair!”
He looked above her head at Tim and he probably received a positive answer because he smiled and explained.
“Tim and I signed a Co-Parenting agreement. Of course it’s only if you accept his adoption and want me to be involved too but…yeah, I’d like to be your official parent too”.
She was crying now.
They wanted her too.
They really did.
It wasn’t just wishful thinking. It wasn’t them just being nice to her because she was sad. It’s not like they had never told her they loved her but it was always so hard to believe, even if they showed it every day.
“As if I’d say no to that !”
And she launched herself at Tim with Kon right behind him who scooped them in a hug.
This was the best birthday ever.
AN:
- Alright so here Donald and Oshi are Anita's parents who returned to an infant state in YJ. As such they’re like a couple years older than Helena.
- Helena is, in fact, Helena Kyle (her favorite color is obviously Red, that's why she imprinted on Tim). Basically her parents were nice at first but life became hard and they ended up moving to try their chance in Cali and it didn't work out so they took it on her. Red Robin now Flamebird found her right after she ran away and took her to the emergencies where she met Conner who was waiting for them (Tim had called on the way) so Tim could disappear and change. So until she learned their secret IDs, she thought the first one she had met was Conner even if only by a few minutes. Also she calls him Kon 'cause she doesn't like Conner as a name. She writes it "Con" to people who don't know about the secret (because that's how she wrote it when she thought it was just a nickname).
She just turned 8
- Jon was born a year after Canon ended for the Pre Flashpoint universe so he's a year and a half - two years younger than Helena.
- Bart, Conner and Cass have their own room because of how often they come.
- Tim and Kon live in California. They moved there a couple of months before finding Helena. Kon needs sun ok. Tim's working fo the police station as a civilian working his way up so he can have his two years of work in law enforcement so he can open his detective agency with KOn. Kon's a double major of Law and Psychology (with a minor in international Law)
#TimKon Week#TimKon#Tim Drake#Conner Kent#DC Comics#Kon El#Bart Allen#Cassandra Sandsmark#Cassandra Cain#Kiran Singh#Rose Wilson#Jon Samuel Kent#Lois Lane#Clark Kent#Bruce Wayne#Barbara Gordon#Alfred Pennyworth#Dick Grayson#most of them are just mentioned#Teen Titans v3#Young Justice (1998)#OTP:TimKon#BrOTP: TimKon
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Preview pages from Shadow of the Batgirl, Wonder Woman: Warbringer and Gotham High shown at SDCC DC Young Adult Panel
Sarah Kuhn has been a fan of Cass since 1999. She says Cass doesn’t have any spoken dialogue in early pages of the story and writing that was a challenge, but thankfully Nicole Goux is amazing at conveying emotions and facial expressions. The story will be about Cass learning she can be a hero and have her own agency. FOund family is one of Kuhn’s favorite story elements. One of her addition to Cass origins is an elderly Asian woman that will serve as another mentor figure in Cass’ life, sort of an ant-like person, someone who wants to feed her and be healthy but can diss out hard lessons as well.
Michel Moreci wrote comics in continuity but he finds an out-of-continuity story liberating for the character of Dick Grayson because he can finally operate in a story where he is fully his own thing and not just Batman’s other. He said he was already reading a lot of YA but he immersed himself in it even more to get the sensibilities of the audience right for this project.
Melissa de la Cruz was attracted to the project by the idea of taking iconic and quintessentially characters like Batman and Catwoman and giving their roles to members of minority groups, people who look more like her and her brother. Catwoman stole the spotlight in the first volume and she hopes in future ones to give more focus to Joker and maybe bring in Harley Quinn.
Wonder Woman: Warbringer is an adaptation of a novel, meaning Louise Simonson feels like a spokesperson for someone else’s work. She describes the writing process as checking your ego at the door, breaking the story into panels and filling the dialogue while staying as true to the original vision as possible. Diana in the story feels she may not be good enough to be an Amazon and that other Amazons thinks so because she was made of clay. Decisions she makes may look like they take her further of becoming an Amazon but will take her closer to becoming Wonder Woman.
Gabriel Picolo and Kami Garcia bonded over her selection of outfits for Raven. Beast Boy is Garcia’s second favorite Titan after Raven.
Danielle Page and Stephen Byrne didn’t meet until Mera book was published, she would send the script, he would send her back the pages. Yet he perfectly got her sensibilities after just a few first pages. She describes the book as being about choice and change, with Mera setting off to kill Arthur Curry who symbolizes all she hates, only to have her belief challenged upon meeting him.
Finally, some character trivia:
First thing when they wake up? Beast Boy puts on his sneakers, Raven drinks coffee and Cass has an existential crisis.
What would they major in high school? Mera marine biology, Raven psychology, Beast Boy zoology or veterinary, Dick musical theater and Cass would ask if she can major in fighting.
Favorite food. Tofu or broccoli for Beast Boy, sweets for Raven, ramen for Cassandra, sushi for Mera, funnel cakes for Dick, soup dumplings for Bruce and hummus, pita bread and olives for Diana.
After Warbringer, Louise Simonson is adapting Catwoman novel and Garcia and Picolo are doing more Titans. Danielle Paige would want to try herself on Batman and Sarah Kuhn on Lois Lane, who was her inspiration to become a reporter. Michael Moreci would like to do a coming of age story about Orion and his evil father, Darkseid.
While Black Label panel was not really worthy of a separate post, in itself, there are some interesting notes that may ease some people’s worries and since they touch a book by Kami Garcia and another retelling of a classic hero’s youth, I decided to attach them here:
The minor good info concerns Superman: Year One. John Romita Jr. says Clark will leave the military after realizing what is being asked of him as part of being a member of Navy SEALS (THANK GODS!) and even move to live in Atlantis. Miller apparently wants to show Superman fall in love with the entire Earth. Also apparently Miller only gives him a rough summary of the events, Romita draws it and then they and editor agree on what the dialogues and plot are supposed to be.
The major one is about Garcia’s Joker/Harley story. Some people were worried it may be romanticizing abuse but apparently, that is not a problem. The story, which they compare to a David Fincher film, will cast Harleen as a police profiler hunting the joker after he kills her college roommate. Apparently, Garcia went with real police profiler to create Joker’s profile as if he was a real person and says Clown Prince of Crime is 100% sane in her interpretation. most well-known serial killers, she argues, were not insane, they knew what they were doing was evil and just didn’t care. Considering how an issue of Batman villains often serving to demonize mental illness have been frequently criticized, I like this book will avoid it.
Also, jeff Lemire talked about his ideas for his Joker. And between him and Garcia Romita asked how it is people who have most monstrous ideas for this character are all so freaking nice, which made me laugh.
- Admin
#Teen Titans#Raven#beast Boy#Shadow of the Batgirl#Batgirl#Cassandra Cain#DC young Adult#DC Black Label#DC
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A Red Robin Netflix Show Pitch
So I saw a post earlier and my mind ran away from me. I just don’t understand why Warner Brothers won’t do something with my boy. SO I outlined the whole thing for them, because I studied this in school and just spent half the year living and working next to the warner Brother lot. And maybe if someone else does the work they will finally do something.
So here it all is, under a cut of course because it so lonnnggg:
Working Title: Red Robin
Type: 30 Minute Television Drama, Multi-Season (Aiming for around 50 Episodes)
Style: Animation
Network: Netflix
Based on the Red Robin Comics of 2009 (Pre-52)
Series Summary: In the aftermath of the universe-shattering events known as the Final Crisis, Gotham City’s Dark Knight is presumed dead. After assuming the identity of Red Robin, former sidekick Tim Drake sets out to become his own hero without the shadow of the Bat to guide him.
Seasons Breakdown:
Season One: Red Robin: The Grail
Episodes: 5 or 6 (potential for more, if some storylines are decided to be more developed)
In the aftermath of the Battle for the Cowl, Dick Grayson has emerged as the new Batman – taking Bruce’s son Damian Wayne as his new Robin. Leaving Tim to discover who he is, Tim discovers clues pointing towards the unbelievable, Bruce Wayne, the Batman, is still alive. Taking the mantle of Red Robin and a decidedly darker persona, Tim sets out on a dangerous quest to prove that he is right tangling with the world’s deadliest assassins and their leader, Ra’s al Ghul.
Season Two: Red Robin: Collision
Episodes: 7 or 8 (Again potential to more)
Continuing his search for the original Batman, lost to time, Tim Drake finds himself joining the side of the Demon Head and works with Ra’s al Ghul as a new Assassin group arises: The Council of Spiders. Determined to take on both groups, Tim takes on the nearly impossible task of fighting them from the inside all whilst trying to keep his newly found acquaintance Tam Fox alive.
Season Three: Red Robin: The Hit List
Episodes: 4 or 5
Beginning to establish himself as a self-appointed vigilante Red Robin, Tim Drake begins his life as a Bat that’s no longer Robin. Establishing himself a hit list of his top targets he finds himself facing his own rogue gallery…one that may include the new Robin.
Season Four: Red Robin: Seven Days of Death
Episodes: 8 or 9
When Red Robin and his friends are trapped in the unknown world of the Unternet by the Calculator's fail-safe program, its Batman and Robin to the rescue – but which Batman and Robin is it? Tim is determined to destroy the villains' communications grid – but may hurt his allies in the process.
Season Five: Red Robin: Finale (?)
Episodes: 5 or 6
Established as Red Robin, Tim starts to fight more personal battles that come his way. Ra’s al Ghul returns desperate for an heir provided by Tim Drake himself. Captain Boomerang, the man who’s killed his father has finally been released from prison and taking on a new assassin organization may result in only one solution, Red Robin’s death.
Season One Cast:
Series Regulars:
Tim Drake – Former partner to the Dark Knight, Tim branches out to be Red Robin. Lead.
Ra’s al Ghul – The head of the League of Assassins. Primary Antagonist. Lead.
Prudence (“Pru”) – Assassin in the League assigned to Tim’s side by Ra’s. Lead.
Z – Another assassin assigned by the league to follow Tim by Ra’s. Lead.
Series Guest Stars:
Dick Grayson – The first Robin to Batman and former Nightwing, Dick takes on the Batman’s mantle and expresses concern over Tim’s health.
Tam Fox – Daughter of Lucius Fox intent on finding Tim, little does she know she will be brought along for the ride.
Stephanie Brown – Currently as Spoiler, Tim’s former love interest and badass crime fighter.
Cassie Sandsmark – Current Wonder Girl, another former love interest to Tim who is concerned for his well being now that many of his friends have recently died.
Alfred Pennyworth – Loyal butler to the Wayne family.
Lucius Fox – Current CEO of Wayne Enterprises.
Jason Todd – In a flash back to Battle of the Cowl, Jason’s fight for the role of Batman.
Because I know people will bug me so here are other details on cast:
Damian Wayne – Recurring Season 2, Lead in Season 3
Tam – Season regular in Season 2 and 4
Stephanie Brown – Recurring in Season 1 and 2
Ra’s al Ghul – Lead in Season 1, 2 and 5
Kon and Titans – Recurring in Season 2 and 4
Cass Cain – Lead in Season 5
Now Jason isn’t in this show much because I was thinking it would be really cool to have him in his own show with the Outlaws. And do a crossover episode ;)
Other storylines that the show can dive into:
Blackest Night storyline for Tim where he sees his dead parents
Origin Episode that tells the story of how he became Robin
An of his Teen Titan runs could be made into filler episodes
The return of Bruce Wayne of course
Branch out more on the Azreal Judgement of Gotham storyline
Episodes on A Death of the Family story arc
Cass Cain centered episode
Damian and Tim centered episode post season 3
Other things of note:
Animation style would ideally be similar to Young Justice and the DC Universe animation movies like Batman vs Robin and Batman: Bad Blood. However, I think it would be brillant to have his dialogue show up similiar to the new Spiderman: Into the Spider-verse. His inner monologue is just to good to leave out.
I’m to lazy to write chaacter development per season, but I feel like that’s pretty self explanatory.
Of course Marcus To would need to be a consultant, that’s a given.
Seaons would probably come out twice a year, I feel like the Voltron release dates are a good outline to follow.(Not that this is anything like Voltron)
Last but not least a DC Comics logo with Red Robin theme to start each episode because damn it my boy deserves to be recognized like the other heroes.
And that’s all I got for the moment because I had no intention of doing any of this and suddenly here I am.
#red robin#red robin comics#tim drake#tim drake wayne#timothy drake#a red robin netflix series#red robin television show#I just did all this pre production writing work for no damn reason other than sheer stubornnes and will#warner brothers hire me#dc#batman
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Ghost
Never Be The Same - Part 6.
Pairing: Sam x Daughter!Reader, Dean x Niece!Reader, Castiel x Platonic!Reader, Sam x OC.
Summary: To save Dean’s life, Sam changes a big part of his past, hoping that he’d only forget memories with his college girlfriend. But, not only he changes his life, he also creates a new one.
Word Count: 2380.
Warnings: None.
A/N: Hey, after months I finally took a deep breath and decided to post this. Actually, I have this part written for like six or seven months. Somehow I was not motivated. Anyway, here it is and hopefully I’ll write more. Please let me know your opinions.
Sam knocked at your door and had no answer, he opened it and you were not at your bed or any other place of the bedroom. He couldn't help but walk inside and sit, hoping that energy he felt inside the place would help him talking to you somehow.
"Hey, don't forget. Make sure you'll..."
"Sam, don't worry. We'll be safe, really."
"You can't be sure of that."
"I can, believe me. Trust me, she'll be fine. You just keep doing your thing and I'll keep doing mine."
"And what's your thing?" He said joking.
"You will know when you're ready." She sounded ironic, but she was serious. "I'll make sure the house is protected and that our girl will have everything she needs. Including, godparents."
"Sure. Whatever you want."
"Good. So, talk to Dean."
"Are you sure?"
"Of course I am. Do you have any other suggestions?"
"I don't know if he'll accept it."
"Trust me, he will."
She just knew it.
"Castiel." You called the angel who turned around to you at the hallway. "You heard me?"
"I did. Why haven't you..."
"I'll, okay?" You interrupted. "He seemed worried and I didn't want to make everything worse." You were both screaming and shushing at each other.
"You will if you don't tell them soon. Y/N, if you know us, you must know this is not a good idea."
"You're right. I just don't know how to say it."
"Well, then draw it." You rolled your eyes. "I won't tell them." You relesed a breath of relief. "...For now."
"But..."
"No buts! You were the one who started telling it so you finish."
"It's no that easy."
"There's no reason for you to be afraid, but if you keep scrolling like that you'll have a reason to worry."
He left the hallway, leaving you with a lot of doubts and alone in the middle of the bunker. You didn't even walked before your brain started overthinking. Obviously, Cass was right, but at the same time you still had that feeling of emptiness in you, and spitting everything out wouldn't make the situation better.
"Y/N" You turned around and saw the tall guy. "Can I talk to you?" You stayed quiet, trying to focus in the present again.
"Yes."
"I went to your room, you weren't there." You started walking in his direction.
"Dean talked to you, didn't he?" He thought it was strange at first.
"Yes, he did. Did he talk to you?"
"Not actually." You paused. "Though he asked me if he calls me Hurricane." You commented confuse. Your father understood Dean better than you did.
"I wanna show you something, come here." You followed him into his bedroom.
"I think he asked you that," he said opening the door and coming in "because that's how he called you before you were born."
"Really?" How come you never knew this?
"Yes. I think it's because you came into us in a time of crisis." He turned to you. Now, you were inside.
"For us, every day is a time of crisis."
He grabbed a frame and gave it to you. You looked at it and there was a photo of you wearing one of his flannels and considering the difference between you guys, it could fit two of you in it. Still, you looked good wearing them. You were wearing high-waisted jeans shorts and a short-toned boot.
"You look good in it, you know."
"Thanks." You said still looking down. Then, there was a weird moment of silence.
"Look at this." You looked up and he was holding his smartphone in his hand. "It just suddenly appeared." He was being so nice. Sometimes you wandered if you were nice to him like he was to you. You looked at the screen and saw pictures of you two together, you and Dean, Cass, Mary, Jodie, Claire and even Crowley.
"That's interesting." You tried smiling, but he realized it was a fake one.
"What is it?"
"Nothing. Just not very surprised, the same thing happened to me."
"Photos appeared?"
"Disappeared. Numbers too." He nodded and invited you to sit by his side when he did it.
"Tell me, how are you feeling?" You looked at him and saw in his eyes that he was truly trying to make you feel better.
"I'm normal, I guess. Every day is a day of crisis but this is the first time something ends up affecting me like this."
"I've been through many things and I know one thing I'm sure of is that I don't want it to others to feel the same."
"I know."
You know. And then it hits him again, you know him and he doesn't know you. So he has to try, he needs to. He owes her that. When he found out he was doing the parenting thing without your mother, his world fell apart. They always wanted a good life with their own family and even if you came before expected, before they had their house or finished college, it was a blessing. They wanted their family and you meant they were half way there, just needed to solve a couple of problems and everything would be different, perfect as it sounded.
"Vanessa? Hi." He answered the phone anxious.
"I'm sorry we couldn't call you before, Sam is just..." She stopped, took a deep breath. "She's here." She said happy. His heart started to accelerate. He was sad he couldn't be with you mother in the labor but you were born, and that was enough. Soon he would be holding you in his arms. "She is perfect and she looks so much like you two." He was jumping of happiness inside, his smile was the biggest and the tears of joy in his eyes made Dean create some while in front of him too. "Cams named her Y/N." By the sound you yours Godmother's voice, she was smiling. "Y/N Maria Winchester." A tear went down his face. He knew she chose it because of your grandmother.
"I love it." He was breathing heavy. "Where is Camila? How is she? Is she tired?" Vanessa stayed quiet. "Vanessa?" She sniffed. "Vanessa, let me talk to her. What's going on?" Now your father was again, worried and Dean confused.
He listened carefully to the words of his lover's best friend. She explained the same thing the doctors did. She had so much pain in her, she hated being the one with the bad news. Your father saw so many different kinds of scenarios of different moments. His heart was still beating fast, but now, not filled as before. The silent tears coming down his eyes were too much for Dean to watch, he was getting desperate.
"Thanks Van, I appreciate everything you've done. Don't worry and please, call me if you need anything. Keep me updated." He said barely standing up. At that moment his weight was too much for himself.
"Take your time, I'll take care of everything. Call me."
"I will." Then, the conversation was over. He leaned back at the Impala.
"So, how's the little hurricane?" Dean asked sitting by his brother's side. "Sammy?" He was so scared by the expression he was seeing in Sam's face.
"Y/N." Was the only thing he could say. "That's the name Cams gave her, Y/N Maria Winchester."
"I love it." Dean was happy, but still worried as hell. Sam stayed quiet for a little bit. And then he couldn't handle anymore, he cried.
"She's gone, Dean. Camila is gone." He said with a trembling voice. "She died a little after labor."
It was very fast. You were born and your mother felt the biggest happiness of her life when she saw you. Minutes later she was holding you in her arms. She new not everything was fine and the labor was not easy, but she already trusted you more than anything. So she said the words she needed before giving you back to the nurse.
"Hey, sweetheart." She said crying, but with the biggest smile on her face. "I knew it. I knew you would look like Y/N." You were still a newborn, but she could clearly see how much you looked like your father and herself. "You're more strong than you can think, my girl. More powerful than you can imagine. You're blessed." There was only a doctor far from her and Vanessa waiting a little closer. "Your father will take care of you and you have to promise me you'll take care of him for me." She looked at you a little more. "I love you. I love you both." She held you for as long as she could. "Qui affecto protego, / mixtisque iubas serpentibus et posteris meis stirpique meae domum meam, / et deducet me ruunt momenta ut potest iactare servate innoxias." She said quietly while holding you close, crying and smiling. Praying for you.
The doctor took you seconds after that and she told the doctor your name, making sure it would be this one. Your mother stayed with her best friend, recovering. She made herself stop the crying and just held a lot of tears for as much as she could. She had to be strong for you and all the ones who loved you too. Camila was thinking straight and had to say everything before it was too late. Her feelings were so many, but she was a mother now. Nothing could ever stay in her way.
"Vanessa, give my necklace to her. Make sure she keeps it with her, always."
"Cams..." She started.
"It's hers now. Teach her everything you can and tell Sam about it. It has to be you. She needs her Godmother." Vanessa nodded. While she talked, she felt worried, bad and good, happy and sad. She was realistic and faced her fate fearless. She lost too much blood during the labor and after it. Was something unpredictable, and it doesn't happen often. But, she was in a risked age - women in their twenties have more chances of complications during the labors, especially the first. Sam understood that, everyone did, she did and you did too. Camila knew she would die in that day, but she also knew you were coming.
"There was no way we could know it." Sam finished explain to Dean, who had tears in his eyes. "It must have been so hard for her and I..." He breathed between his cry. "I wasn't there." He stared at the floor, feeling so much pain and anger of fate, of death itself. Why now? Of all the people, places, moments, hours and ways. Why did it have to be like that? Besides that, he was so worried and terrified. At the same time you were all the light he had, all the hope he felt, he was afraid of his mission. "What am I gonna do, Dean?" He turned to his big brother. Dean just listened and gave him lots of minutes to feel, while he felt deeply sad too.
"I bet she's so pretty." Dean broke the silence. "She is cute, for sure. But she's lucky to have both of you in her. Can't wait to see your great job with her. Count me in, Sammy. Always."
Now, somehow, Sam was so scared that not even the support Dean and Cass gave to him were stopping him from being so worried with you and how to act around you. He felt like every single thing he did or decided could affect you in a very bad way.
"Sam, I need to tell you something." You started and got up from his bed.
"Sure." He said a little nervous.
"In my reality, Vanessa told you this. But, now I'm guessing you still have no idea."
"Your mother's best friend, right?" You nodded and took a deep breath, kind of scared of speaking.
"Camila had this thing, she called sensibility. She never actually told you about it, but thanks to this gift she knew ever since she met you, that you were a hunter." Your father just payed attention. "The truth is, we come from gypsies who apparently had very powerful connections with... this world."
"Ok..." He was speechless, waiting for you to finish it.
"I lied to you, I'm sorry." He looked worried and opened his eyes even more, but tried to make sure you stayed calm. "I don't have powers only because of you." You paused. "This thing, passed to me and I have some witch abilities. But, don't freak out, I really don't use them."
"How do you know you have it?"
"It's kinda obvious."
"That you are familiar with spells?" He was worried and a little upset, but he understood you. So, he sounded soft, even if this was a surprise to him about Camila.
"I wasn't born familiar with them, I studied them in your books. I thought that, at least, it was safer if I knew a little bit about what I was doing."
"But why? If you don't use them, why you needed to know this? How is it obvious?" He was trying to understand not just you, but how he allowed you to be so deep in his world.
"Like I said, it's like a sensibility. I just guess some stuff and..." You decided to stop and sit by his side. "I never used a spell. Not once, I swear." He took a deep breath and looked at you, feeling again that endless love he couldn't explain.
"I believe you." That felt comforting for both of you. "Now, how are you for real?" You focused on the fact that he was your father, and soon or later you had to let the guard down.
"Ironically, I feel like a ghost."
"You're not a ghost." He assured you, but you felt like you finally understood the desperate in them. "Ghosts are lost and you are not, okay? You are home." The bunker never let you doubt it. But now, it was complete. So, you nodded with a sad look.
"Can I hug you?" Before you finished the question he opened his arms himself and you finally felt again how was like not being totally alone. "Thanks."
Next.
#sam x daughter!reader#dean x niece!reader#castiel x platonic!reader#sa#sam x daughter au#dean x niece au#castiel x platonic au#dad!sam winchester#uncle!dean winchester#uncle!castiel#winchester!reader#winchester!daughter#sam winchester x daughter!reader#dean winchester x niece!reader#supernatural imagine#supernatural au
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Post Crisis Cassandra Cain reading list - recs, mentions, and warnings
Hello my dear readers! As many of you know, I have a side blog where I systematically look at each comic issue Cassandra Cain was ever mentioned or included in. I just finished reading all of it yesterday (although some articles are yet to be published) and so I thought a reading list might be in order.
Below the cut, you will find a full and detailed chronological (in-universe chronology) list of Cass material I recommend for reading, cameos and mentions for which a summary of the issue is enough, and things you should absolutely avoid, with annotations like this (**comment**).
But first, the TLDR version:
Recommended:
No Man’s Land storyline, starting with Batman Vol 1 567 (Trade issue 3 of 5, I think)
Ghost/Batgirl: The Resurrection Engine Vol 1 1-4
Batgirl Vol 1 (suffers from Mass Effect syndrom, i. e. turns into garbage on the last page of the final issue)
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 1-14 (beware occasionally bad art)
Batgirl Vol 3 1 and Batman Incorporated 1 6 (for the costume change)
Gates of Gotham Vol 1 1-5 (THE best post Batgirl Vol 1 Cass storyline)
Convergence: Batgirl Vol 1 1-2
AVOID:
Batman: City of Light Vol 1 1-8 (Utter garbage.)
War Games storyline (All of it. Except maybe the Batgirl issues.)
Robin Vol 4 148-152 (Aka “Robin: One Year Later”. Aka Cass’ character assassination.)
Supergirl Vol 5 13-14 (more evil Cass BS)
Teen Titans Vol 3 43-46 (even more evil Cass BS)
Robin Vol 4 161-162 (still not done with the evil Cass BS)
Batgirl Vol 2 1-6 (the evil Cass BS finale – all you need to know is that Bruce adopts Cass)
Battle for the Cowl Vol 1 1-3 (Utter garbage!)
Full version below the cut:
Recommended:
Batman Vol 1 567 (**Cass’ first appearance**)
Detective Comics Vol 1 734
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 120 (**Cass becomes Batgirl, meets Dick & Tim**)
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 56-57
Batman Chronicles Vol 1 18
Robin Vol 4 73
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 60-61
Batman: Gotham City Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 1
Batman: Gotham Knights 2
Ghost/Batgirl: The Resurrection Engine Vol 1 1-4
Batgirl Vol 1 1
Young Justice Vol 1 21
Batgirl Annual 2000 Vol 1 1
Batgirl Vol 1 2-12
Robin Vol 4 88 (**meets Stephanie)
Batgirl Vol 1 13-14
DC1st Vol 1 1 Batgirl/Joker (**the art style is... very unique**)
Batgirl Vol 1 15
Superboy Vol 4 85
Batgirl Vol 1 16-18
Harley Quinn Vol 1 10-12
Batgirl Vol 1 19-20
Supergirl Vol 4 63
Batgirl Vol 1 21-26
Batman Vol 1 600
Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 1 (**avoid the last story with Barb and Cass**)
Batgirl Vol 1 27-29
Batman Vol 1 605
Batgirl Vol 1 30-33
Batman Family Vol 1 6-8
Batgirl Vol 1 34-38
Detective Comics Vol 1 790
Gotham Knights Vol 1 42+45
Batgirl Vol 1 39-47
Superman/Batman Vol 1 5
Batgirl Vol 1 48-52
Detective Comics Vol 1 796 (**Cass meets Onyx**)
Batgirl Vol 1 53
Justice League Elite Vol 1 1-12 (**not much Cass at first, but best read as one block**)
Batgirl Vol 1 54
Batgirl Vol 1 55-57 (**War Games storyline is garbage, but read it for context**)
Batgirl Vol 1 58
Robin Vol 4 133
Batgirl Vol 1 59-73 (**the last page of 73 sucks!**)
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 2-14 (**the art is occasionally atrocious**)
Battle For The Cowl: The Network Vol 1 1 (**the only good thing in BFTC**)
Batgirl Vol 3 1 (**read for context of Cass’ identity change only**)
Wonder Woman Vol 2 600 (**”Fuzzy Logic” short story – very cute flashback!**)
Red Robin Vol 1 17
Batman Incorporated Vol 1 6 (**first appearance as “Blackbat**)
Gates of Gotham Vol 1 1-5 (**this is where PC Cass should have ended, tbh**)
Convergence: Batgirl Vol 1 1-2
Inconsequential cameo/mention/bio:
Catwoman Vol 2 72
Robin Vol 4 70
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 124 (**very good story though**)
Detective Comics Vol 1 738
Batman: Shadow of the Bat Vol 1 92
Detective Comics Vol 1 739
Batman: Shadow of the Bat Vol 1 93
Detective Comics Vol 1 741
Guide to the DC Universe Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2000
Batman: No Man’s Land Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 1
Batman: Outlaws Vol 1 1-3
Green Lantern: Circle of Fire Vol 1 1
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 5
Young Justice Vol 1 20
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 66
Batman Vol 1 586
Birds of Prey Vol 1 27
Catwoman Vol 2 90
Wonder Woman Vol 2 165+167
Harley Quinn Vol 1 6
Batman: Orpheus Rising Vol 1 3+5
Wonder Woman Vol 2 174-175
Joker Last Laugh Vol 1 3
Robin Vol 4 95
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 84
Batman Vol 1 594-597
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 23
Robin Vol 4 98
Guide to the DC Universe Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2001-2002
Birds of Prey Vol 1 43
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 94
Batman Vol 1 606-607 (**very good Bruce & Cain fatherly feels towards Cass**)
Detective Comics Vol 1 782
Batman Family Vol 1 1-2
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 33-36
JLA Vol 1 80
Action Comics Vol 1 804
Batman Vol 1 609+615
Superman/Batman Vol 1 17
JLA: Welcome to the Working Week Vol1 1
Birds of Prey Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2003
Birds of Prey Vol 1 61
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 46-49
Birds of Prey Vol 1 62-63
Robin Vol 4 126
Robin Vol 4 127-128
JLA Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2004
The Flash Vol 1 210
Birds of Prey Vol 1 74
Detective Comics Vol 1 800
Teen Titans Vol 3 18
Robin Vol 4 132
Robin Vol 4 134
Batman Allies Secret Files and Origins 2005
Robin Vol 4 138
Robin Vol 4 139
Batman Vol 1 635
JLA Vol 1 121
The OMAC Project Vol 1 2
Birds of Prey Vol 1 86
Adventures of Superman Vol 1 649
Superman/Batman Vol 1 26
52 Week 1 + 8 + 11 + 48
Birds of Prey Vol 1 94 + 97 + 99
Batman Vol 1 653
Teen Titans Vol 3 41
Superman/Batman Vol 1 41
Black Canary Vol 3 2
Countdown Vol 1 36
Teen Titans Vol 3 52-54
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 1
Gotham Underground Vol 1 5 + 7 + 9
Robin Vol 4 156 (**references to evil Cass, but the story is really good**)
Final Crisis 3/7
Batman Vol 1 683
Batgirl Vol 3 3 + 5 + 6
Birds of Prey Vol 2 1
Red Robin Vol 1 13
Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Batgirl Vol 1 1
Commissioner Gordon (Bruce Wayne: The Road Home) Vol 1 1
Red Robin Vol 1 18-19
Birds of Prey Vol 2 10
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 40
Red Robin Vol 1 25
Batgirl Vol 3 24
Convergence Vol 1 8
AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!
Batman Vol 1 569 (mischaracterized)
Robin Vol 4 86 (the art is atrocious, and half the characters are OOC)
Batman: The Widening Gyre Vol 1 1 (very gory for no real payoff)
Robin Vol 4 119 (out of nowhere garbage)
Batman: City of Light Vol 1 1-8 (bad writing, worse art)
Detective Comics Vol 1 797 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 182 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Gotham Knights Vol 1 56 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Batman Vol 1 631 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Detective Comics Vol 1 798 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 183 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Gotham Knights Vol 1 57 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Batman Vol 1 632 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Detective Comics Vol 1 799 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 184 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Nightwing Vol 2 98 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Robin Vol 4 131 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Batman Vol 1 633 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
World War 3 Vol 1 1 + 2 + 4 (the beginning of the “evil Cass” bullshit)
Robin Vol 4 148-152 (also known as Robin: One Year Later, “evil Cass” BS in full effect)
Supergirl Vol 5 13-14 (more evil Cass BS)
Teen Titans Vol 3 43-46 (even more evil Cass BS)
Robin Vol 4 161-162 (still not done with the evil Cass BS)
Batgirl Vol 2 1-6 (the evil Cass BS finale – all you need to know is that Bruce adopts Cass)
Battle for the Cowl Vol 1 1-3 (Battle For The Cowl storyline - utter garbage!)
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New Post has been published on Mortgage News
New Post has been published on http://bit.ly/2k62Cin
monday-morning-cup-of-coffee-who-will-lead-hud-until-carson-gets-started
Monday Morning Cup of Coffee takes a look at news coming across HousingWire’s weekend desk, with more coverage to come on larger issues.
Zac Anderson of the Herald Tribune is reporting that Sarasota, Florida, Housing Authority Director William Russell was picked by President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team to “help lead the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development on a temporary basis until a permanent team is in place.”
The expected next director, Dr. Ben Carson, is transitioning through the nomination process in the meantime.
Anderson reports that, “Russell has experience working for HUD in Washington, D.C. He served as deputy assistant secretary for public housing at the agency before moving to Sarasota in 2005 to take over the city’s troubled housing authority.”
In coverage of the aforementioned confirmation hearing, CNN Money reporter Tanzina Vega seems to think it’s going fairly well:
During his nomination hearing to become Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development Thursday, Ben Carson assured his questioners that he would not seek to gut the agency or take rental assistance away from the millions of people who rely on it.
That gave some reassurance to lawmakers and housing advocates who were concerned about Carson’s lack of experience and about comments he has previously made about HUD and public assistance in general. (In a 2015 op-ed piece for the Washington Times, Carson criticized a HUD rule meant to desegregate neighborhoods calling it “social engineering.”)
Vega notes that Carson faces a housing authority in crisis. After all, massive waiting lists, budgetary shortfalls and steadily decreased funding await Dr. Carson.
We can all agree the next HUD director will have their work cut out for them.
Speaking of housing authorities, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Sunday he sent state lawmakers a bill to replace an expired property tax abatement program that sought to provide incentives for affordable housing construction in New York City, according to this piece in Newsday.
“The governor’s office said the bill keeps the housing units affordable for 40 years, compared to the previous 35-year requirement, and ensures construction workers a rate of $45 an hour or $60 an hour, depending on the location of the project,” reports Emily Ngo.
Also, everyone is wondering if and when President-elect Trump will “fire” the director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Richard Cordray.
Bloomberg View is reporting it is not going to be that easy.
“On the day of his removal, Cordray would be within his rights to go to court to seek a judgment that the president acted beyond his constitutional authority,” reasons Cass Sunstein.
Here’s the issue with a summary dismissal of Cordray:
This would be quite a spectacle. As the law now stands, Cordray would almost certainly win. Things could get pretty ugly. Would a lower court issue an injunction against the president? Would he comply with it?
The Trump administration could make a less ambitious argument. It could concede the legitimacy of independent agencies in general, but attack the independence of the CFPB in particular, because it is headed by a single person (rather than the more usual multimember commission) and because of the sheer breadth of its authority over the economy.
Bloomberg Markets report a dip in demand for mortgages at two of the nation’s largest lenders; and you can thank the Fed for that.
“Wells Fargo & Co. and Bank of America Corp. said they’re starting to see demand for home loans taper as the Federal Reserve raises interest rates,” report Jennifer Surane and Lauren Keller.
U.S. home loan originations may drop 17 percent to $1.5 trillion in 2017, according to Keefe, Bruyette & Woods. Contracts to purchase previously owned U.S. homes decreased in November because of the increase in mortgage rates and limited inventory, according to figures released last month by the National Association of Realtors in Washington.
Click here to read the full report, which includes an interview with the Wells Fargo CFO.
Raise your hand if you remember Bernie Madoff.
His Ponzi scheme ripped off both the rich and poor in perhaps the most famous case of Wall Street excess.
So what is he up to in prison?
The headline in MarketWatch says it all: Bernie Madoff is cornering the prison market on Swiss Miss hot chocolate.
Enjoy.
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What would you say are the best Cass issues?
Thank you for your ask, Anon!
Whew, it's been a while since I covered any of Cass's comics, so I don't fully remember what happened in her New 52/Rebirth issues. Thankfully I made a summary of her post crisis issues, which I can now reference, so here are what I consider the best post Crisis Cass comics:
No Man’s Land storyline, starting with Batman Vol 1 #567 (Trade issue 3 of 5, I think)--this is PostCrisis!Cass's origin story and very beautifully done.
Ghost/Batgirl: The Resurrection Engine Vol 1 #1-4. Inconsequential to her overall story, but still a good mini series.
Batgirl Vol 1. This one sadly suffers from Mass Effect syndrom, i. e. turns into garbage on the last page of the final issue, although some people prefer to quit earlier (usually around issue 60 or so when her "looking for my mother" arc really kicks in).
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 #1-14 (beware occasionally bad art)
Gates of Gotham Vol 1 #1-5. THE best post Batgirl Vol 1 Cass storyline and basically her reunion with the family after tons of bad writing.
Convergence: Batgirl Vol 1 #1-2 for all your Cass/Steph in the middle of the apocalypse needs.
Also, digging through the last issues of Batgirl Vol 1 made me realize I either never posted my summary of issue 66 or it got purged somehow. I don't want to give people false hope of the blog continuing regularly any time soon though by posting it now.
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Post Crisis Cassandra Cain comics overview - recs, mentions, and warnings
I already posted this on my main blog a few days ago, but now that I’ve actually posted all the post Crisis articles, it’s time to mention it here as well.
Below the cut, you will find a full and detailed chronological (in-universe chronology) list of Cass material I recommend for reading, cameos and mentions for which a summary of the issue is enough, and things you should absolutely avoid, with annotations like this (**comment**).
But first, the TLDR version:
Recommended:
No Man’s Land storyline, starting with Batman Vol 1 567 (Trade issue 3 of 5, I think)
Ghost/Batgirl: The Resurrection Engine Vol 1 1-4
Batgirl Vol 1 (suffers from Mass Effect syndrom, i. e. turns into garbage on the last page of the final issue)
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 1-14 (beware occasionally bad art)
Batgirl Vol 3 1 and Batman Incorporated 1 6 (for the costume change)
Gates of Gotham Vol 1 1-5 (THE best post Batgirl Vol 1 Cass storyline)
Convergence: Batgirl Vol 1 1-2
AVOID:
Batman: City of Light Vol 1 1-8 (Utter garbage.)
War Games storyline (All of it. Except maybe the Batgirl issues.)
Robin Vol 4 148-152 (Aka “Robin: One Year Later”. Aka Cass’ character assassination.)
Supergirl Vol 5 13-14 (more evil Cass BS)
Teen Titans Vol 3 43-46 (even more evil Cass BS)
Robin Vol 4 161-162 (still not done with the evil Cass BS)
Batgirl Vol 2 1-6 (the evil Cass BS finale – all you need to know is that Bruce adopts Cass)
Battle for the Cowl Vol 1 1-3 (Utter garbage!)
Full version below the cut:
Batman Vol 1 567 (**Cass’ first appearance**)
Detective Comics Vol 1 734
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 120 (**Cass becomes Batgirl, meets Dick & Tim**)
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 56-57
Batman Chronicles Vol 1 18
Robin Vol 4 73
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 60-61
Batman: Gotham City Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 1
Batman: Gotham Knights 2
Ghost/Batgirl: The Resurrection Engine Vol 1 1-4
Batgirl Vol 1 1
Young Justice Vol 1 21
Batgirl Annual 2000 Vol 1 1
Batgirl Vol 1 2-12
Robin Vol 4 88 (**meets Stephanie)
Batgirl Vol 1 13-14
DC1st Vol 1 1 Batgirl/Joker (**the art style is… very unique**)
Batgirl Vol 1 15
Superboy Vol 4 85
Batgirl Vol 1 16-18
Harley Quinn Vol 1 10-12
Batgirl Vol 1 19-20
Supergirl Vol 4 63
Batgirl Vol 1 21-26
Batman Vol 1 600
Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 1 (**avoid the last story with Barb and Cass**)
Batgirl Vol 1 27-29
Batman Vol 1 605
Batgirl Vol 1 30-33
Batman Family Vol 1 6-8
Batgirl Vol 1 34-38
Detective Comics Vol 1 790
Gotham Knights Vol 1 42+45
Batgirl Vol 1 39-47
Superman/Batman Vol 1 5
Batgirl Vol 1 48-52
Detective Comics Vol 1 796 (**Cass meets Onyx**)
Batgirl Vol 1 53
Justice League Elite Vol 1 1-12 (**not much Cass at first, but best read as one block**)
Batgirl Vol 1 54
Batgirl Vol 1 55-57 (**War Games storyline is garbage, but read it for context**)
Batgirl Vol 1 58
Robin Vol 4 133
Batgirl Vol 1 59-73 (**the last page of 73 sucks!**)
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 2-14 (**the art is occasionally atrocious**)
Battle For The Cowl: The Network Vol 1 1 (**the only good thing in BFTC**)
Batgirl Vol 3 1 (**read for context of Cass’ identity change only**)
Wonder Woman Vol 2 600 (**”Fuzzy Logic” short story – very cute flashback!**)
Red Robin Vol 1 17
Batman Incorporated Vol 1 6 (**first appearance as “Blackbat**)
Gates of Gotham Vol 1 1-5 (**this is where PC Cass should have ended, tbh**)
Convergence: Batgirl Vol 1 1-2
Inconsequential cameo/mention/bio:
Catwoman Vol 2 72
Robin Vol 4 70
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 124 (**very good story though**)
Detective Comics Vol 1 738
Batman: Shadow of the Bat Vol 1 92
Detective Comics Vol 1 739
Batman: Shadow of the Bat Vol 1 93
Detective Comics Vol 1 741
Guide to the DC Universe Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2000
Batman: No Man’s Land Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 1
Batman: Outlaws Vol 1 1-3
Green Lantern: Circle of Fire Vol 1 1
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 5
Young Justice Vol 1 20
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 66
Batman Vol 1 586
Birds of Prey Vol 1 27
Catwoman Vol 2 90
Wonder Woman Vol 2 165+167
Harley Quinn Vol 1 6
Batman: Orpheus Rising Vol 1 3+5
Wonder Woman Vol 2 174-175
Joker Last Laugh Vol 1 3
Robin Vol 4 95
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 84
Batman Vol 1 594-597
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 23
Robin Vol 4 98
Guide to the DC Universe Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2001-2002
Birds of Prey Vol 1 43
Azrael: Agent of the Bat Vol 1 94
Batman Vol 1 606-607 (**very good Bruce & Cain fatherly feels towards Cass**)
Detective Comics Vol 1 782
Batman Family Vol 1 1-2
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 33-36
JLA Vol 1 80
Action Comics Vol 1 804
Batman Vol 1 609+615
Superman/Batman Vol 1 17
JLA: Welcome to the Working Week Vol1 1
Birds of Prey Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2003
Birds of Prey Vol 1 61
Batman: Gotham Knights Vol 1 46-49
Birds of Prey Vol 1 62-63
Robin Vol 4 126
Robin Vol 4 127-128
JLA Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 2004
The Flash Vol 1 210
Birds of Prey Vol 1 74
Detective Comics Vol 1 800
Teen Titans Vol 3 18
Robin Vol 4 132
Robin Vol 4 134
Batman Allies Secret Files and Origins 2005
Robin Vol 4 138
Robin Vol 4 139
Batman Vol 1 635
JLA Vol 1 121
The OMAC Project Vol 1 2
Birds of Prey Vol 1 86
Adventures of Superman Vol 1 649
Superman/Batman Vol 1 26
52 Week 1 + 8 + 11 + 48
Birds of Prey Vol 1 94 + 97 + 99
Batman Vol 1 653
Teen Titans Vol 3 41
Superman/Batman Vol 1 41
Black Canary Vol 3 2
Countdown Vol 1 36
Teen Titans Vol 3 52-54
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 1
Gotham Underground Vol 1 5 + 7 + 9
Robin Vol 4 156 (**references to evil Cass, but the story is really good**)
Final Crisis 3/7
Batman Vol 1 683
Batgirl Vol 3 3 + 5 + 6
Birds of Prey Vol 2 1
Red Robin Vol 1 13
Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Batgirl Vol 1 1
Commissioner Gordon (Bruce Wayne: The Road Home) Vol 1 1
Red Robin Vol 1 18-19
Birds of Prey Vol 2 10
Batman and the Outsiders Vol 2 40
Red Robin Vol 1 25
Batgirl Vol 3 24
Convergence Vol 1 8
AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!
Batman Vol 1 569 (mischaracterized)
Robin Vol 4 86 (the art is atrocious, and half the characters are OOC)
Batman: The Widening Gyre Vol 1 1 (very gory for no real payoff)
Robin Vol 4 119 (out of nowhere garbage)
Batman: City of Light Vol 1 1-8 (bad writing, worse art)
Detective Comics Vol 1 797 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 182 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Gotham Knights Vol 1 56 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Batman Vol 1 631 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Detective Comics Vol 1 798 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 183 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Gotham Knights Vol 1 57 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Batman Vol 1 632 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Detective Comics Vol 1 799 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Legends of the Dark Knight Vol 1 184 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Nightwing Vol 2 98 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Robin Vol 4 131 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
Batman Vol 1 633 (War Games storyline – utter garbage!)
World War 3 Vol 1 1 + 2 + 4 (the beginning of the “evil Cass” bullshit)
Robin Vol 4 148-152 (also known as Robin: One Year Later, “evil Cass” BS in full effect)
Supergirl Vol 5 13-14 (more evil Cass BS)
Teen Titans Vol 3 43-46 (even more evil Cass BS)
Robin Vol 4 161-162 (still not done with the evil Cass BS)
Batgirl Vol 2 1-6 (the evil Cass BS finale – all you need to know is that Bruce adopts Cass)
Battle for the Cowl Vol 1 1-3 (Battle For The Cowl storyline - utter garbage!)
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Batman And The Outsiders Vol 2 40: Land’s End
For our 300th issue, we return briefly to Batman and the Outsiders. In case you are wondering why there is no counter summary following this – it’s only ten more issues for post Crisis from here on.
This issue is basically half recap of the Outsiders’ history, including the era of Batman’s death and the struggle between Dick and Cass, which is where we get her cameo:
The other half is Batman extracting the team from Markovia, where Amanda Waller is about to nuke them. Geo-Force, who is king of Markovia and tried to lead the team without much success, leaves when the rest of them don’t believe that his recent attacks were in self-defense and the remaining Outsiders go with Batman.
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