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wangxianficfinder · 15 days

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Fic Finder

Apr 12th

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1. For the ficfinder: In the last "In the mood for", no 8 reminded me of a fic but I cant recall the one. Wwx is travelling by himself, writing letters to LZ, he stays in a town and it ends up cursed. LZ and the juniors arrive to solve the case. Wwx is acting weird and hides his letters. The juniors read the letters and find out wwx is angry and full of resentment about how he's been treated. They find out the curse resonates from him. They talk it out to resolve matters. It was written really well. Any idea? @kesterling

FOUND! i found it myself, it kept bugging me. The fic is sadly deleted but on the wayback machine: Dock of the Bay by Haysel.

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2. Hi! This is for Fic Finder. All I remember is the ending, where Yu Ziyuan had her arms cut off, and that there was a part that mentioned that this was punishment enough as she would have to live her life with no pride. Also, she had an affair with Jin Guangshan, and Jiang Cheng was his child, and she had to become his concubine, I think. Hope someone knows which fic this is!

FOUND? sounds like the deleted "OOC!" by A_flower_in_the_snow. It's avaiable on the wayback machine.

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3. Hi, once again.

I’m looking for a fic that I seriously can’t find, at all.

So it would really be a great help if you could.

Wwx was brought to cloud recesses for healing after madam yu had whipped him so bloody he couldn’t move and wa sin active danger of dying.

The disciples who brought him there did so on a donkey I think?

Anyway they asked LZ to please befriend Wwx.

The healers weren’t sure if Wwx would survive. He does.

And joins the lan, befriending LZ oh and he can’t fight with his sword anymore because of the damage and something about his heart having been weakened.

That is all I remember.

Have a nice day/night. @ravenwithwings

NOT FOUND!🔒🧡 rain falls and soaks into the earth series by RoseThorne (T, 57k, WangXian, WIP, Near Death Experience, Attempt Drowning, Madam Yu Bashing, Recovery, No war AU)

FOUND! 🧡 Company by WithBroomBefore (T, 29k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Pre-Relationship, Getting Together, POV LWJ, Fix-It, Pre-Canon, at least to start, WWX goes to Cloud Recesses, But Not In The Usual Way, fear of character death, Everybody Lives, Hurt/Comfort, Happy Ending, Light Angst, good teacher LQR, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, brief discussion of past minor character suicide, Kitten, Not YZY Friendly)

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4. Hi!! I'm looking for a fic I can't remember the name of, a modern AU, possibly set in the UK where lwj is part of some sort of anarchist/ community activist group and wwx joins. Most people in the group already know wwx and are reallly good friends with him but lwj is super skeptical about him. Also at some point I think wwx goes missing and lwj is super worried??? I can't remember anything else... thank you in advance🙏🙏🙏 @kavlobebeki

FOUND? now to begin the road by detectorist (E, 28k, WangXian, Modern AU, Pining, Miscommunication, Misunderstandings, Getting Together, Light Angst, Food as a Metaphor for Love, Activism, Politics, Rooftop Conversations)

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5. Hi, I'm wondering if anyone else remembers a fic similar to leading tone by silencemostofall, and pastel by antebunny, but that's set in the canon era while they're at Cloud Recesses? A few details I remember was that the coloured mark that indicated Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian's relationship started to fade, and that Jiang Cheng was allowed home to celebrate his birthday, while Wei Wuxian's was completely ignored by the Jiang Sect and so he spent it drinking and was caught by Lan Wangji. Apologies that I don't have more! @flaxenhairedsamurai

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6. There was this fic on ao3 I don't remember, much, but it had this part, where lwj refused to go near his child(/children??) Because when wwx was pregnant he slowly grew ill or I dunno I think there was some complications (?) and when it was finally the time of delivery, wwx fell into coma I think. And lxc was angry with lwj for not even looking at his child / children when both wc were so excited for the baby.

There is a similar wx comic on Twitter. Can you please find both of them? The ao3 fic and the Twitter comic too please?

FOUND? I don’t know the Ao3 but I do know the comic similar to the description which made by AlasseTassir in twitter and they post it on their pixiv.

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7. A while back I found and lost 😥 a fic where WangXian, I think, were smuggling Wen Ning (and probably Wen Qing) across a border somewhere and they put a fake mustache on one of the two and people kept complimenting them on how nice it looked. I think people even copied the mustache after that? Maybe even the bad Wens? That's literally all I can remember about it. I've tried every tag I can think of and haven't been able to find it. Hopefully someone will know. TIA! @lilyinthesnow

FOUND! Bloom where you are planted by luckymoonly (M, 44k wangxian, MM/WQ, Canon Divergence, Fix It, courting, Mpreg, Sunshot Campaign, Fluff, Happy Ending, getting together early, Romance, WWX giving birth in the middle of the war? Most likely than you think!, Yúnmèng Siblings Feels, Smut, Drama, Blood and Violence, Minor Character Death, There Is Only One Bed, No Fall of Lotus Pier, Crossdressing, Shotgun Wedding, Mention of miscarriage (not WWX), wangxian Have a Breeding Kink, Giving Birth, Soft granduncle LQR)

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8. hii i need help finding a fic. I remember it is ongoing it is a time travel one where wei ying travels back to the past decides not to join the jiang sect but to be rouge i remember he stole gold from the sects which made the economy go to shit the emperor got involved and disbanded the wen sect wei ying is now rich he is studying to pass some exams he has a nice house with a mini farm meets lan zhan and they fall in love and we find out from lan qiren that wei ying is a royal bc his father was a prince but he ran away to be a servant to the jiang sect and sometime near the last chapters the emperor gives permission to wangxian to marry and to take with him some princes and princesses to raise away from the palace. @wangxian4evermdzs

FOUND? Starting Over by SplitGirl28 (M, 69k, WIP, Time Travel Fix-It, Back to Childhood, Change his life, Different lifestyle, But WWX is still gifted genius, Unrestrained WWX, Living his ideal life)

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9. Hi all! 👋 I am so sorry to bother you if you’ve already found this fic but I’ve scoured across the internet all day and decided to go ahead and ask anyway! I’m looking for a fic that has Wei Ying being adopted into the Lan clan as a child, he was scared to be kicked out and became rather solemn and a perfect lan clan member, on the other hand Lan Zhan has grown to be shameless and flirts with Wei Ying every chance he gets. There’s also some Jiang Bashing, OCs, and maybe some time travel? Help🥹

FOUND? could be the deleted "Uno Reverse" by A_flower_in_the_snow. It's on the wayback machine.

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10. Hello!! I swear I just read it and now I can't find this fic- but it's supposed to be an AU where wwx stayed behind during Lotus Pier's attack and Madam Yu and JC escaped but wwx stayed to fight, and lwj heard wwx was missing and he rushes to help wwx and he runs in JC and JY also trying to save wwx? Thank you in advance!

FOUND? for as long as he will let me by RavenclawLoki (T, 8k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Angst, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Hurt WWX, Love Confessions, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, First Kiss, BAMF JYL, WangXian Get a Happy Ending)

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11. Hi, thanks so much for all your efforts!!

I’ve been looking for a fic and hope it hasn’t been deleted. Wei Ying, Jiang Cheng, and Jiang Yanli were mermaids but were also semi-amphibious? They could go on land for short periods and they helped fight the Wens during the Sunshot Campaign. Wei Ying is married off to Lan Zhan and he lives in the Cloud Recesses. Most of the story is centered around Wei Ying adjusting to his life on the surface amongst humans and navigating the relationship with his new husband.

FOUND? you’re a bird in the water / i’m a fish on the ground by plonk (Not Rated, 8k, WangXian, Merpeople, Canon Era)

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12. Hi, can you help me find a fic . The story goes somewhat like Lan Wangji was in a nighthunt and had taken shelter in an inn . There was a storm, and Wei Ying came to that inn seeking shelter with a few orphan kids . Those kids and Wei Ying were both from the same, and they escaped from being sold ? I think Wangji was a bit older than Wei Ying. Also, Wei Ying could use his cultivation powers without any medium like swords or instruments. 🙏

FOUND? ❤️ Seen and not heard by eatmyass (E, 51k, wangxian, case fic, no sunshot, kid fic, dadxian, strangers to lovers, found family, LWJ pov, pining, fake/pretend relationship, first time, falling in love)

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13. Helppp! looking for a fic I read awhile ago and it just wont leave my mind, So basically Wangxian had an age gap LWJ was like 16 or 17 and WWX in his 20's but like "the cloud recesses" is some sort of mansion and the lotus siblings visit them in cloud recesses. I think it was tagged E if that helps

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14. Hi! For Fic Finder. Thank you very much for your help. There’s a fic I thought I bookmarked but can no longer find.

The first fic is a dark Lans fic set during the Cloud Recesses arc. WWX and JC are betrothed in this universe. But LWJ and WWX fall in love. LWJ manipulates the environment and JCs insecurities to break them up. I believe it’s in a two part series.

Thank you!

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15. Story of Yanxi Palace based fic. WY is the empress/consort who hides in a box from Sizhui. LZ knows he's inside the box, and as a prank/punishment, he uses the box to play a boardgames with Sizhui

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16. Hi! I really am looking for this story in AO3 and still can't find it. It was about Wei Wuxian who got married to Wen Chao but Lan Zhan couldn't take it so he plans to take Wei Wuxian back by claiming Wei Wuxian each time he got (even in the wedding night of WWX and WC) and destroying the company of the Wens. As they (LWJ & WWX) continued the deed, WWX ended up pregnant and LWJ is more than determined to take WWX back. I do hope you can help me find this story. Thank you in advance!😘 @gegegeeee

FOUND? 姻緣 | this marriage was always predestinedby saccharinings (E, 43k, wangxian, Cheating, Infidelity, not between wangxian, WWX is married and LWJ persuades him to cheat on his husband with him, Dark LWJ, A/B/O, Feminizing Language, Exhibitionism, Size Difference, WagnXian Have a Breeding Kink, Stomach Bulge, Possessive LWJ, Manipulation, WWX Wears Lingerie, Rape/Non-con Elements, for one part, Hair-pulling Kink, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Mirror Sex, Vibrators, Phone Sex, Rimming, Edgeplay, slight choking kink, Light Bondage, Inappropriate Use of Gūsū Lán Forehead Ribbon, LJY’s Big Fat Crush on Milfxian, Pregnant WWX, WangXian Endgame, Spanish Translation)

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17. I'm looking for this fic that's basically a bunch of drabbles in one. Each chapter title is one word and serves as the theme for that chapter. I remember it having quite a lot of chapters, but I only remember one titled "kneeling" where Wuxian kneeled before Wangji (if you need a better picture, imagine that one scene in CQL where Wuxian kneeled and put his head on Yanli's lap in that one episode) @mindaneacc

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18. Hey, I'm looking for a fic where LZ and WY are already married and living in Gusu. But they get separated from each other due to an illness/curse going through the Wen Sect, so LZ leaves to give medical aid. In the process, he ends up adopting Wen Yuan. There is a sweet connection between WY and Lan Qiren. But most importantly Wen Qing managed to assassinate Wen Ruohan. @mother-of-pigeons

I remember 18, though I can't find it either. The sickness/curse in question made people burn from the inside; it was contagious from breathing in the ashes of the people dying. There was a honestly touching scene with Wen Chao dying while Wen Ning kept him company. Wen Qing assassinated WRH because she was treating him for the illness, for which they'd finally found the cure, and he announced that he therefore would use it as a weapon against the other sects, by deliberately infecting them and holding the cure hostage. The only ones they'd allow to have the cure are the Lans, because they're the only ones who came to help. He also intended to marry WQ, as he'd lost both his sons and needed new ones. I think it might have been part of a series, with the first part showing how WangXian got together.

FOUND!🔒Distance Makes the Heart Grow Fonder by Titans_R_Us (T, 11k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Mutual Pining, Temporary Separation, BAMF WQ)

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19. Hello!! Here I am again looking for a wangxian fic. It's one that I read through here but never found again, anyway, the things I remember from the fic are: the sects transform into animals, being shapeshifters, the Lan are dragons like WWX, I also remember that the transfer of core occurred but the core has a mind of its own and it goes back to WWX's body, WWX faints and Wanji makes a soulmate connection... Those are the only things I remember!!

Note: I think Ao3 should have category filtering in our subscriptions, because I think I subscribed to the story but I already looked and couldn't find it... @sweettiebah

FOUND? sounds like "Revealed Truths Against Dragon's Fire" by Preludian_Staves. It's hidden on AO3 but avaiable on the waback machine.

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20. Hi! I'm looking for a fic with a red string of fate au where wwx jumps off the cliff, but has a moment of weakness when he looks at lwj and end up tying himself to lwj before dying... And when he wakes up he discovers lwj kept the string bc when he wakes up as mxy he can see it connecting him to lwj. He flees and tries to put as much distance as he can between them but lwj still finds him at dafan mountain... It's a multi chapter (I think) with a happy ending. Help please? 🥺

FOUND? 💖 a trail of blood to find your way back home by blackelement7 (T, 19k, wangxian, JC & WWX, what if a soulmate string au, but without the soulmates aspect of it, a reflection on the nature of marriage, WWX is full of regrets, so is LWJ, Mutual Pining, Miscommunication, JC & WWX Reconciliation, JC is trying his best but words are hard and his brother is stupid, Siblings, Canonical Character Death, but it’s just WWX, accidental 3zun feels, WWX as the most unreliable of narrators)

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#wangxian #mdzs #wangxian fic finder #wangxian fic search #the untamed #wangxianficfinder #long post

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loosingmoreletters · 1 year

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take an AU haunting me for ages now: the “sects go to the terrifying Yiling patriarch to ask for his help in the war, WWX ends up demanding LWJ marry him” fics?

Yes, that, but kinda in reverse.

The Sects go to meet the Yiling Patriarch and he’s as expected: arrogant, bold, careless, demanding. And using heretic powers to keep his Burial Mounds untouched by the world.

They negotiate, he smirks properly wicked, and and says he wants to name a bride and a marriage to the Lan.

The Lan talk, outraged, but they have a war to win so the agreement is struck: marriage to the Lan and the Yiling Patriarch is allowed to name bride and groom. They write it down exactly like that.

The war happens, but with the Yiling Patriarch’s army of the resentful dead, they lose less soldiers, win more battles. The Lan wonder why they were chosen, perhaps because they hold enough moral sway that any hostage of theirs wouldn’t result in another war? Regardless, Lan Wangji makes it his job to stick close to the Yiling Patriarch, as close as he will let anyone. He has a whole entourage of ghost brides, though only one stays close to him at all times, veiled whenever they have company

They win the war. “Bride and groom,” the Yiling Patriarch says and swears to return in three months. There is talk of taking him down now that Wen are gone, but no one wants to go to war in the Burial Mounds.

The Yiling Patriarch arrives in three months as promised, dressed in red, followed by a parade of people. “I’ve come to collect my debt,” he tells them. “I will name Lan Wangji as the groom,” he says, sparking confusion and outrage. Does he intend to name one of his ghost brides next? And indeed, he reached for one, lifts her veil, revealing living woman, but takes the veil for himself instead. “And I, myself, will be his bride.”

The story goes a little like this:

One. Wei Ying’s parents die and he follows them. Only he is young and alive and curious and the Burial Mounds are very hungry. They devour him skin, flesh, bone, teeth. And they spit him out again. And again again and again.

Two. Wen Qing is her uncle’s favorite, but she’s her brother’s only sister. She fears what war means, what the retaliation might mean. Young Masters go to the Cloud Recesses for study on invitation, Wen Qing goes to the Burial Mounds to beg.

Three. There is very little begging to be done in front of a boy her brother’s age, who hasn’t been hugged in years and keeps the company of murdered brides as though they are his mothers, aunts and sisters. She asks for protection, he asks for a meal.

Four. They cannot stay in the Burial Mounds forever. It is not a place for children even Wei Wuxian realizes that one morning and promptly disappears in his childhood bedroom, a cold cave filled with trinkets of the dead. He survived on the cost of skin, flesh, bone, teeth. They cannot all pay this price.

Five. The Sects knock at his door, a solution presents itself. He dressed Wen Qing like his older sister, veil and all, and hides her among his undead. They strike a bargain.

Six. They could keep a hostage, but a hostage will not keep them fed. Brides, he knows from childhood on, marry out. One of his sisters would’ve taken with her all her servants, had her unwilling husband not killed her on the wedding night.

Seven. “This is why it has to be a Lan,” Wen Qing tells him. Your husband would not kill you like this. They might keep him in some other way, but what could be worse than skin, flesh, bone, teeth? A wedding night of death? Nothing. And if he can help his family by making them servants and himself a bride, he’ll stay locked up in the Cloud Recesses. At least this prison will not spit him out.

What Lan Wangji knows is this: the Yiling Patriarch is mocking them, but there is a debt and a debt must be paid.

They marry in name, no matter how much the Yiling Patriarch taunts him about the contents of a proper marriage, and then they live separately. They keep an eye on him of course, him and his servants, who keep to themselves, settling in Caiyi and the Cloud Recesses, wary, hungry, terrified people - not of their master, but of everyone else.

And then, on accident maybe, a slip of the tongue, one of those servants soak a different name. Within a second, the Yiling Patriarch is in front of them in protection, though he looks less arrogant, less bold, less careless, less demanding. He looks, Lan Wangji thinks, like someone who has more too lose than he’d ever admit. He looks terrified like no one in the Cloud Recesses ever should.

So maybe he should ask him why

#mdzs #wangxian #wei wuxian #lan wangji #the untamed #fanfic #aus and ideas

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wangxianficrecs · 3 months

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💙 Lay my body down by tawaen

💙 Lay my body down

by tawaen

M, 48k, Wangxian

Summary: One of the fragments of Wei Wuxian's soul, splintered during the first siege of the Burial Mounds, uses the energy released by the Yin Tiger Tally and flees backwards through time to another moment where Wei Wuxian was close to death – after the fall of Lotus Pier, at the hands of Jiang Wanyin. Knowing how his first life will end, Wei Wuxian decides to hide his survival, and leave the cultivation world behind. Kay's comments: This story left me absolutely speechless, it was just so perfect! As if someone magically knew all my favourite things and wrote them into a story. It's got genius inventor Wei Wuxian, who becomes a rogue cultivator of sorts and finds his family with the Wens! It's got actual consequences from grave injuries that aren't magically healed! It's got Wen Qing being a good leader and the best sister! It's got Lan Wangji suffering the pain of loss much sooner and therefore learning his lesson sooner and holding on tight to Wei Wuxian when they meet again! It's got the sects getting what they have coming! And it's also incredibly well-written and I literally couldn't stop myself from reading it in one sitting. Excerpt: Wei Ying is too exhausted and in too much pain to deal with the rage, fear and grief. He is already overwhelmed with those feelings from the fall of Lotus Pier. He cannot process the memory or any of his emotions now. Right now, he needs to focus on healing as much as he can. The Wen will come for them soon. His golden core opened his airways and protected them while he was unconscious. He focuses the remainder of his spiritual energy on his back; he needs to stop the bleeding. He can't stay here, but he needs to be sure he won't loose too much blood or get infected through the open, weeping gashes on his back. He meditates as Jiang Cheng's breathing evens out, having finally burned through his rage and cried himself to sleep beside the broken, bloody body of his childhood companion. Once he is sure all the bleeding stopped, he slowly rolls himself into the water of the river next to them. When Jiang Cheng wakes, it will look like Wei Wuxian moved in his sleep – drowned and carried away by the river.

pov wei wuxian, canon divergence, time travel, time travel fix-it, somebody lives/not everybody dies, rogue cultivator wei wuxian, butterfly effect, no golden core transfer, no jiang cheng & wei wuxian reconciliation, not jiang cheng friendly, cultivation sect politics, demonic cultivation, sunshot campaign, wen remnants live, eventual lan wangji/wei wuxian, time travelling wei wuxian

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(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

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asksythe · 10 months

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House Jiang’s Lost Founder - Jiang Chi - Lost canon detail from the novel - Wen and Jiang, how their names foreshadow their fates

Did you know the man who founded House Jiang is named Jiang Chi 江迟?

This name is not included in any materials from the official novel, the Donghua and its character data sheets, or even the live-action drama Chenqingling.

The name Jiang Chi was mentioned only once in chapter 56, Sandu 12, The Three Poisons - 12, of the original web novel version of Modaozushi before it underwent rewriting and editing in 2016. Here is the full passage in which it was mentioned:

云梦江氏立家先祖江迟乃是游侠出身，家风崇舒朗磊落，坦荡潇洒，虞夫人的精气神与之完全背道而驰。而江澄模样和性子都随母亲，天生便不投江枫眠之好，从小诸般教导，始终调不过来，是以江枫眠一直表现得似乎不是太青睐他。

Lit: The ancestor and founder of House Jiang, Jiang Chi, came from a knight errand (traveling hero) background. His House philosophy revered open-mindedness, earnestness, purity of heart, fairness in dealing with people of all castes and backgrounds, and unrestrained by rules. Yu Furen's personality is in direct contrast with his House philosophy. Jiang Cheng had a similar personality as his mother and was naturally not a favorite of his father. Regardless of how much he was taught from a young age, he still couldn't understand this (the House Philosophy). This was the reason why Jiang Fengmian's behavior seemed to suggest a lack of favor.

I. The Wen and Jiang founder’s names and how they foreshadow their historical positions and final fates:

Wen starts things. Jiang ends them.

The Wen founder is named Wen Mao 温卯. Mao 卯 is an ancient word specifying the 4th shih (double hours) of the day, from 5-7 am in our modern time. Mao is also the time when court officials started their working days in ancient times. The royal court began with Mao.

In other words, Wen Mao’s name foreshadows the fact that he’s the one to end one era (the era of the cultivation sect) and begin another era (the era of the cultivation house/nobility). This was in the novel during Wei Ying’s first class in Cloud Recess. Lan Qiren asked Wei Wuxian who was the person that ended the cultivation sect era and began the cultivation house era.

On the other hand, the Chi in Jiang Chi 江迟 means late, slow, outdated, behind in era.

This name foreshadows Jiang Chi’s place as the “last of the herd” and “reluctant follower” in Wen Mao’s cultivation house era. Wen Mao started the rise of the house system and the ending of the sect system. Yet House Jiang, despite being called Jiang Shi like its historical peers (Wen Shi, Lan Shi, Jin Shi, and Nie Shi) had the system of a sect and not a house.

Because of how Jiang Shi was created and its system rooted in the sect system, House Jiang continuously prevaricated between being a sect (in all but name) and a house in the novel under Jiang Fengmian’s reign.

House Wen massacred House Jiang. The eradication of the original Jiang Shi is the spark that ignited the Sunshot War.

Wei Ying, the last member of House Jiang who still holds Jiang Chi’s philosophy, is key to making the defeat of House Wen possible.

Jiang Cheng, the last biological Jiang, headed the Burial Mound Siege and slaughtered the last of biological Wens, with the only surviving Wen child becoming a Lan.

II. The difference between a sect and a house:

There are overlapping areas between a sect / zongmen 宗門 and a house / shijia 世家. So it’s easy to mix up these two concepts. However, the novel highlights the key difference between these two systems itself.

Sects prioritize the inheritance of their philosophy and teaching.

Houses, on the other hand, prioritize direct bloodline hereditary.

This is crucial in things like deciding who the next generation leader will be, as well as the policy in treating their members.

Under the sect system, barring unforgivable mistakes or heinous crimes, the eldest disciple inherits the title of sect heir and next-generation leader.

Under the house system, the previous house leader’s son inherits the title of heir and the position of next-generation leader.

For example: under the sect system, Wei Ying is the heir and will inherit the leadership. Under the house system, Jiang Cheng is the heir and will inherit the leadership.

Similarly, sects place far less importance on a person’s caste and background and have fewer and less restrictive rankings. Sects are meritocratic.

Houses, because of their nature and the heredity that is central to their concept, have extensive and incredibly strict rankings of their members. Houses are nepotistic.

For example: Wei Changzhe was Jiang Fengmian’s sect brother under Jiang Fengmian’s father’s time. In the book, Jiang Fengmian called Wei Changzheng his sect brother. Wei Changzhe also accompanied Jiang Fengmian to Cloud Recess to study and met Cangse Sanren there. These are privileges not allowed to house servants. But from Jiang Fengmian’s time forward, because of Yu Furen’s influence, he was called a house servant.

In the novel, Yunmeng Jiangshi was a house undergoing a crisis of identity. It has the name of the house, the trapping of a sect, and constant chaos and confusion as to where it was going, the ranking and positions of its members (with Wei Ying holding the title of eldest disciple and still treated like a servant being the most glaring part), and who its next-generation leader would be.

Well, until the death of Jiang Fengmian and the eradication of the original Yunmeng Jiang Shi put a stop to that confusion. Jiang Shi under Jiang Cheng’s reign is a house through and through and completely disconnected from Jiang Chi’s House Philosophy.

#ask Sythe #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #jiang chi

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robininthelabyrinth · 10 months

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@thedarkline ask which disappeared:

Can you do one where Huisang is upset about the loss of his best friends? After the cloud recesses and the training camp he looked forward to seeing Wei Wuxian and JC again and now they don’t even like each other and WW is so cold now. Maybe they deserve a forced vacation?

ao3

Nie Mingjue blinked.

“Oh,” he said. “I see. This is a hallucination, and I should go get checked out by the doctors.”

“Rude, da-ge,” Nie Huaisang sniffed. “Also, you should in fact go get checked out by the doctors some more. I’m still worried about you, you got out of bed too quickly after everything. But also: rude!”

“All right, I’ll concede that maybe I didn’t hallucinate and you in fact said what you said,” Nie Mingjue said. “But…why? I thought you liked Wei Wuxian!”

“I do like him! Of course I like him!”

Nie Mingjue threw his hands into the air. “Then why in the world would you want me to bring him to trial?”

“Because he hasn’t done anything wrong,” Nie Huaisang said. “It’s all a bunch of rumor and innuendo, and now Jiang Cheng had to throw him out of the sect and pretend he doesn’t like him – which is ridiculous – and we can’t all hang out the way we used to and it’s awful, da-ge! Just awful!”

“Pretty awful for Wei Wuxian stuck living on the Burial Mounds and Jiang Cheng having to rebuild his sect all by himself, but yes, by all means, let’s focus on how it affects you personally,” Nie Mingjue said dryly. “No fun hangouts with your friends. How will you survive?”

Nie Huaisang ignored him.

“My point is,” he said loftily, “if he’s found innocent after a trial, then he can come back. It’s perfect!”

“Huaisang…”

“I’m serious.”

Nie Mingjue rubbed his forehead and, reluctantly, started trying to actually think it through. Nie Huaisang could sometimes be distracted by shiny things, like a shopping trip or a new fan, but sometimes he would demonstrate his heritage by getting his teeth into something and stubbornly refusing to let up on it, ever.

It was nice to see him living up to at least some family traditions.

“Wei Wuxian did murder some Jin sect guards,” he pointed out. “He’s unquestionably guilty of that.”

“First off, no one cares about that,” Nie Huaisang rebutted. “And you know it.”

“They should. The fact that the Jin are soulless bastards isn’t exculpatory.”

“No, but also you’re wrong. The fact is, Wei Wuxian didn’t kill them.”

“What?”

“He didn’t! Wen Ning did.”

“…I’m not sure how it’s better that the Ghost General was involved.”

Nie Huaisang waved his fan at him. “Da-ge, don’t be obtuse! Wen Ning wasn’t the Ghost General at that point – he was just a fierce corpse. No consciousness.”

Nie Mingjue waited for his brother to explain his logic. He assumed there was some, anyway.

Nie Huaisang rolled his eyes as if he thought Nie Mingjue was being purposefully slow just to mess with him, which he wasn’t, for once. “Da-ge. Wen Ning was a fierce corpse who had been killed by the Jin sect guards. If he’d resurrected without Wei-xiong’s help, would anyone have said anything?”

“Of course not. A murderer’s victim seeking vengeance for the crime committed against them is a classic case that calls for liberation, provided they haven’t killed anyone else in the process or gotten a taste for killing people such that they would continue doing so afterwards.”

“Exactly.”

“But Wei Wuxian did resurrect him.”

“Naturally he did! He was looking for his friend, he wanted to speak with him; he’s a demonic cultivator. What could be more natural? It’s no different from a Lan playing Inquiry to see if they can find a lost soul. How was Wei Wuxian to know that the Jin sect guards had murdered him, and that Wen Ning would therefore arise as a fierce corpse bent on immediate vengeance?”

Nie Mingjue wanted to laugh, and also possibly to suggest that Nie Huaisang consider picking up a sideline in advocacy, except that he really didn’t actually want a lawyer in the family.

“All right,” he said, suppressing his amusement. “Let’s say I’m following where you’re leading. Then why didn’t Wei Wuxian, demonic cultivator, stop the murder?”

“Da-ge, please,” Nie Huaisang cast him a horrified look. “You’re not suggesting a cultivator can be held responsible for not acting swiftly enough to stop something, are you? Imagine how much of the cultivation world might be at risk if that were the rule!”

“Mm. A good point. Didn’t I hear somewhere that Wei Wuxian had already known that the Jin sect guards had killed Wen Ning…?”

“Surely Wei-xiong would never make such an assumption about the good, upstanding people that a good, upstanding sect like Lanling Jin took on as their own. It must have been a misunderstanding. You know how young heroes are, all bluster and hot air. Are we kicking people out of sects just for that?”

Nie Mingjue’s shoulders were shaking with the effort to keep his laughter inside.

“There, you see! Perfectly logical,” Nie Huaisang concluded, throwing his sleeves up with a flourish. “Obviously the entire sequence of events that led to Jiang Cheng kicking Wei Wuxian out is simply a misunderstanding. Easily resolved!”

“Right. And the Wen sect? They were supposed to be in Jin sect custody.”

“Uh, da-ge, the Jin sect appointed guards that killed some of them, a fact we know for sure because we’ve gotten it based on the testimony of the dead – again, like Inquiry. Are you saying we can’t rely on things like Inquiry? What will the Lan sect say if they hear you suggest such a thing?”

“I’m suggesting that we still need to do something with the Wen sect.”

“Let Jiang Cheng take them and put them to work.�� Nie Huaisang shrugged. “He’s got a whole sect to rebuild, hasn’t he? Anyway, they were the ones who were massacred, they should get first call on what to do with them.”

“Firstly, taking them in means that Jiang Cheng has to feed them –”

“The Jin sect can pay for that, if they’re so enthusiastic about helping deal with them.”

“Secondly, why would Jiang Cheng want the kinsman of the people who killed his parents? I thought you liked him?”

“I’m getting him back Wei Wuxian,” Nie Huaisang said. “He’s going to have to deal with the baggage Wei Wuxian picked up along the way on his own. What do I look like, someone who fixes things for people? Please, da-ge. I’m only human. There’s only so much that I’m capable of.”

Nie Mingjue gave in and started laughing.

#mdzs #nie mingjue #nie huaisang #my fic #my fics #another old one #and a theme I've hit before #maybe even posted htis one before???#but I like this one anyway because of the stupid lawyering

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fixaidea · 8 months

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So here's the thing: I don't usually engage with or care about top/bottom discourse EXCEPT when I think it's funny, sooo...

Let's do some Science and examine Pingxie in a Very Serious Manner.

To do this, first let's take a look at some data gathered from all the danmei novels and shows I know (relevant for calibration you know, since they have actual canon top/bottom dynamics.)

SVSSS

Shen Qingqiu - Since his cause of death wasn't starvation we can assume - well, at least hope - that he can make instant noodles, if nothing else, but he will absolutely avoid having to cook if he can help it.

Luo Binghe - As the Protagonist he of course has to be The Bestest at everything (...except sex, apparently) and it's mentioned that both Bingge and Bingmei use their culinary skills to woo the people they want to sleep with. He's also the top, even though everyone involved would be better off if he wasn't.

MDZS

Lan Wangji - Becomes a pretty decent cook, as per the extras. Prefers to top.

Wei Wuxian - It's not like he's incompetent, he doesn't burn or undercook the food, it's just that his taste is so extreme that his dishes are basically inedible to anyone else.

TGCF

Hua Cheng - No special talent for cooking, but at least he's not actively dangerous. There's no on-page sex scene in the novel, but it's made obvious that he tops.

Xie Lian - Biohazard. Weapons-grade culinary anti-talent. Gastronomy's answer to Vogon poetry.

Golden Stage

Ulike in most of the other novels on the list, food doesn't really have much symbolic meaning and not much is said about either Fu Shen's or Yan Xiaohan's cooking skills, exept for a brief mention of Fu Shen pickling eggs to pass the time. This is a rare couple that canonically switches.

Guardian

Zhao Yunlan - This man considers instant noodles cooked with coffee an okay way to surprise a boyfriend. He really wouldn't mind topping, which he keeps lamenting throughout the book, but he's paired with Shen Wei who might just have the strongest set preference out of everyone on this list.

Shen Wei - Likes to dote on Zhao Yunlan by cooking for him and is genuinely very good at it.

Word of Honor (mind, I have only watched the show here)

Zhou Zishou - Can keep himself alive, but left to his own devices would probably make due with charred-and-yet-undercooked fish or something.

Wen Kexing - A competent cook. While obviously not detailed in the drama I looked it up (or asked someone, I can't remember) and he's the top here.

Erha

Chu Wanning - Perfected exactly one (1) dish, is rather... unfortunate otherwise. You could not pay this man to top.

Mo Ran - Excellent cook. Actually worked in a kitchen at one point in his life, giving and receiving food is basically his main love-language.

Now that we have examined these canon couples and have drawn all the relevant conclusions, let's apply what we learned to our non-danmei, might-as-well-be-canon-but-isn't ship.

Wu Xie - Can cook just fine both in the novel and the drama-verse even if it doesn't come up too often. In the first season he cooks up a pretty decent feast for his friends and in the Yucun books he helps come up with the dishes they would serve in their restaurant.

Zhang Qiling - The entire Thing of this poor sod as a character is that he knows how to survive but not how to live. Taking the time to prepare nice meals or cook anything beyond basic sustenance just... doesn't fit that picture.

So.

I rest my case.

#dmbj #pingxie #zhang qiling #wu xie #tgcf #svsss #mdzs #word of honor #golden stage #erha #guardian

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mxtxfanatic · 1 year

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Alright mxtx fandoms, let’s discuss class distinctions. I see a lot of people who discuss the theme of classism in mxtx works by collapsing all class groups into two categories: the ultra rich upper class who make all the rules and the poverty-stricken lower class who are oppressed by them. However, this is rarely the case in her books. The prime examples I can think of are in tgcf and mdzs.

In mdzs, a lot of people claim that Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao come from “similar backgrounds,” but this is most definitely not the case. Yes, Jin Guangyao went unclaimed by his father until later into his adulthood after his mother’s death, but Meng Yao did not grow up poor. Meng Shi was a famed courtesan with high-profile clients before she had her son, and having Meng Yao was a plan for her to be made into a mistress or second wife (which ultimately failed). Sisi was almost turned into a second wife, which is what caused her to be attacked and ruined her looks. Sex workers operated in a weird social space in ancient history where they existed as an industry, but class distinctions between different kinds of sex work still existed/exists and Meng Shi was definitely not on the low end of the scale. Even if Jin Guangyao had never been acknowledged by his father, he still found an honest job as a bookkeeper before meeting Lan Xichen. Meanwhile, Wei Wuxian was a street orphan with no family, money, status, who barely remembered his name, and definitely no benefit of an education due to how young he was orphaned, who was eventually taken in as the companion servant to a local lord-equivalent’s son. Neither of these characters started off as gentry, but they were not of the same class growing up.

In tgcf, Mu Qing is touted as a “poor”/working-class character by a large portion of the fandom, but… there’s no real evidence that he is? I mean, I have no doubt that, given the circumstances of his father’s death and his mother’s eventual disability, he was in poverty at some point, and this seems to be corroborated within the narrative by the fact that he is well-known and loved by the street orphans in the city. However, you cannot tell me that the personal servant to the crown (and only) prince to an entire kingdom is surviving off poverty wages. You’d be better-served making an argument to me about Anne Boleyn being an accurate historical representation of English serfs. Hong Hong’er, actual child living in poverty, is notably set apart from Mu Qing: from his fraying, patched clothes to his dirty hands to Mu Qing’s unwillingness to touch him… Mu Qing is set apart from the upper crust because 1) he is not of nobility but, more importantly, 2) his father was a criminal publicly executed for treason. And #2 is particularly damning for Mu Qing’s status amongst the nobility because Feng Xin, also not from a noble family, is (conditionally) accepted amongst the same elite snobs in a way Mu Qing is not (which makes sense since why would a noble like the son of a man who may have conspired against their rule?). Interesting to note, though, that the only time Mu Qing is unquestionably included in the array of the elite is when Hong Hong’er is being ostracized by the same group (minus Xie Lian). So while Hua Cheng and Mu Qing both had childhoods outside the nobility, Mu Qing was not anywhere near the level of poverty Hua Cheng had to live through.

I feel like svsss escapes this sort of broad-stroke application of class status to characters because most characters really do either fall into one of the two groups or we are not given background information on them at all. We know that Shen Jiu and Yue Qingyuan were child slaves, with the former being bought by a cruel master and the latter being able to escape and join a sect. We know that Luo Binghe, while not a child slave, was a child servant working with his adoptive mother under cruel masters who were directly the cause of his mother’s death. Slight distinction, but functionally not any different in their effects and outcomes. Shen Yuan is said to come from a wealthy family in his world, and Liu Qingge and Liu Mingyan do, as well. All the major demon characters are nobility. The only character we see who does not fit into this distinct divide is Shang Qinghua, but his background only becomes fleshed-out in the extras. Not to say that classism isn’t also a theme, but it’s function is used differently here than in the other two novels (especially since in svsss, we are working with parallels feeding into cycles of abuse and how to break said cycles rather than recreating them into infinity).

So with all this said, I think it may actually help discussions of the classism theme within these different mxtx fandoms to acknowledge and take into account the nuances within the class positions that these characters occupy. Why is it that the functionally middle-class characters, after gaining a crumb of acceptance from the elites, tend to turn against those lower on the rung? How do characters of the same background and class status interact with others of differing status, and what makes their reactions different from each other despite being raised under similar conditions? What is mxtx trying to say about class as a social or even moral divider by adding all these class nuances or (with svsss) lack thereof into her various narratives?

#mdzs #svsss #tgcf #human metas mxtx #just thinking out loud #i may have more to say after I officially finish tgcf again #but this is where I’m at

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youhideastar · 11 days

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WujiWatch: CQL Rewatch Episode 18

I tagged a lovely gifset from this episode with the tags “#some people go their whole lives without finding a zhiji #and wwx somehow ended up with two.” Wei Wuxian and Wen Qing have helped each other before, most notably on Dafan Mountain, but this is the episode where they truly become a team—where they show how deeply they understand one another. The moment that gets me is when Wei Wuxian asks Wen Qing for a sedative to drug Jiang Yanli… and Wen Qing reaches under the book she’s reading for a little paper packet, already prepared with the proper drug in the proper dose. She knew he would ask, and she’d already resigned herself to helping him do it. That’s her side. When she holds it out to Wei Wuxian, he doesn’t look the slightest bit surprised. That’s his.

These children who were raised by not-quite-parents, in homes that gave them everything but safety, who learned to govern their faces and bite their tongues and be what those not-quite-parents needed them to be, because if you were needed, that was as close to safety as you could get; these geniuses, too smart to be understood by anyone but one another, innovators out on the edge of the possible, possessed of extraordinary gifts turned to ends they never wanted; these bruised idealists who can’t turn away from people in need even when they know they’ll pay the price, and those they love will pay it, too—they know each other. Down to their souls, they know each other.

Wei Wuxian will know and be known by Lan Wangji, too. But Wen Qing will never have this kind of intimacy with anyone else. She might have had it with Jiang Cheng, in another life—with their shared values of loyalty and duty, their quiet longing and sharp political instincts. But in this one, that possibility is sacrificed on a hilltop in Yiling. She knows him, in a way no one else ever will, up to her wrists in the red insides of him. But her chance to be known by him in turn is gone forever. No truth can survive that big a lie.

#the untamed #wujiwatch #cql #wen qing #cql meta #meta

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evilhasnever · 9 months

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Shower thoughts: we often talk about how JGY is LXC’s savior - he saved his life at great personal risk, and that is why lxc trusts him (and loves him) from the moment they meet.

But on the other side, what was that meeting like for meng yao?

The first contact meng yao had with the cultivation world was his father’s scorn at age 14 or so, being kicked out like a mongrel, being denied entry and respect. Being shown his pearl was trash and so was he, pretty much.

After that, we don’t know what he did. The next time we see him he’s working a bookkeeping job, maligned by other workers. He is alone in the world.

Then, his second meeting with the cultivation world comes in the form of Lan Xichen. He saved him before knowing who he was, of course, but that doesn’t change who Lan Xichen will become to him. Someone who needs him, trusts him, appreciates him, respects him, supports him and likes him. Someone who does not question his dreams and aspirations, does not make fun of him. The pinnacle of cultivational gentry, now a friend. Wouldn’t that give you back some hope? Wouldn’t that make you think that maybe the world is not all rotten? (During Sunshot, Lan Xichen is literally described as a ray of hope for fighters and commoners alike, and I think this inspiring quality of his was always there, even at his worst.)

Not to get too maudlin, but I think Lan Xichen’s arrival may have saved meng yao too. Or at the very least, showed him a direction to follow in the future. There are honorable, good people out there like in the stories Meng Yao heard as a child (though, it turns out, they are an exception to the rule). I can imagine Meng Yao’s world view was turned upside down twice in rapid succession!

We know LXC was at his lowest point when they met, but so was meng yao! They met during one of the hardest times in their lives and found hope in each other. Furthermore: their meeting evidently reignited their mutual desire to fight for survival and for the betterment of the world - something they worked together on for the rest of their lives! Wow… xiyao

#Now for something more fun #xiyao!!!!!!#This isn’t meta this is just shower thoughts about how much I love xiyao #xiyao #release the yunping tapes #mdzs meta

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wangxianficfinder · 8 months

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In the mood for...

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1. ITMF: Just finished ShanaStoryteller's "By Any Other Name" where resurrected WWX pretends to be a woman, and it's put me in the mood for fic where he is actually resurrected as a woman but, here's the key: he's hamstrung by the extremely patriarchal society he's in. The few fic I've read that have him in a woman's body usually hand wave over that but I'd love to read a fic that doesn't. Anything like that out there??? @kimboo-york

To Deserve So Much More by renysen (locked to archive) (T, 20k, wangxian, summoned by f!oc, getting together, Mojo’s post) has WWX resurrected by the youngest daughter of a non-cultivating family and deals with several issues of him being a woman as a result.

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2. do you know any fics that explore what happens if yzy lives past the wen attack on lp? wwx blamed himself enough without her active vitriol so i'd love to read how her survival would impact the yunmeng trio (esp wwx) and/or the war. thank you!

💖 Lessons relearned by Iamnotawriter (T, 44k, WangXian, LQR & WWX, Not Madam Yu Friendly, Time Travel Fix-It, Angst with a Happy Ending, Canon-Typical Violence, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Inventor WWX, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, No Golden Core Transfer, YZY Bashing) has YZY surviving the fall of LP & has stuff about how her leadership is different from JC

Yearning for Miles by Murahi (M, 378k, WangXian, LQR/SiSi, Canon Divergence, Angst, Fluff, Slow burn, Mutual Pining, seeing the future) has YZY surviving IIRC (it's been a while since I read it & I bailed partway through so idk how it goes) & the tags mention YZY redemption

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3. hi ! in the mood for fics (canon) that feature wangxian and lan sizhui ! it doesn’t need to be about them as parents, although it definitely can, but just having them (especially lwj) act parental or acknowledged as parents or exist as a family unit would be much appreciated, kind of like “Crack me open, pour you out” by tenillypo. basically any parental canon wangxian (even just featured) would be amazing thank you !! @willesnelson

to the act of making noise by words-writ-in-starlight (WordsWritInStarlight) (G, 19k, LSZ & LWJ, LSZ & WWX, wangxian, Grief/Mourning, Father-Son Relationship, inquiry, Music, Angst, Fluff, Found Family, podfic available)

kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight by AlfAlfAlfAlfAlf, tardigradeschool (T, 75k, WangXian, Hurt/Comfort, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Eventual Happy Ending, Getting Together, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Inspired by The Parent Trap (1998), Kid Fic, teen shenanigans, two a-yuans, Fluff and Angst) it's set in canon times however its def an AU storyline but you get a lot of family feels

Finding Balance Series by Zombubble (G/T, 117k, WangXian, Character Study, Canon Compliant, Mentions of Blood, Mentions of Violence, Mentions of Death, Grief, But only a little, Nightmare, Canon-Typical Violence, within a nightmare, injuries, Underage Drinking, Light Angst, Happy Ending, JC Being an Asshole, but not too bad, Anxiety, Grief/Mourning, Self-Reflection, Conflict Resolution, Internal Conflict, lots of talking, Lots of Thinking, LSZ-centric, Soft LQR, Sort Of, Collective Bargaining, LSZ accidentally incites a mini off-screen rebellion, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, Angst with a Happy Ending, Post-Canon, mild panic attack) not sure if its quite what #3 is asking (most recent itmf post) but there's a post-canon sizhui-centric series about sizhui coming to terms with remembering he's a wen and stuff, and the last two in the series (esp the last one) have parental wangxian helping him work through things

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4. Itmf wwx n friends as a crazy crack funny af potty mouthed wholesome group!! Modern au. Them being crack heads in a nut. Like, doing stuff like sneaking out, putting skates and running at night, sitting in shopping trolly and pushing it ahead, Fighting in Instagram comments section. Just wwx an friends. Idm relationships.

He lo I'm for #4 itmf. fic is really good, but not what I was aiming for, cuz yeah the plot was chef's kiss, but didn't had much of wy n frnds, lemme clear: wy n frnds shenanigans, doing stupid things, what the fuk moments. This time doesn't matter if it's canon, modern or alternate Universe. Thankyou

The Fifth Type of Non-Contact Force by Caixx (Not Rated, 83k, WangXian, Modern AU, High School, Slice of Life, Slow Burn, Fluff and Humor, Actually Somewhat Canon, Mutual Pining, Horny Teenagers, Angst with a Happy Ending, Non-Graphic Smut) lots of shenanigans here

Carefully Orchestrated Plans (no strings attached) by Maledictius (T, 101k, WangXian, Modern AU, Chatting & Messaging, Orchestra, Fluff and Humor, Hijinks & Shenanigans, Fake/Pretend Relationship, Gossip)

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5. ITMF!! What’s a wangxian fic you’ve read where, as you sadly leave your last kudos on the last chapter, you think, THIS COULD BE A MOVIE 😤!

Those fast paced, edge of your seat, tight plot, spot on character fics that you’d buy a ticket to see? Or maybe a smaller lyrical fic that could totally be an art house short film?

I was rereading Hobbsy3’s Tragedy is Not the End. I always have to make myself popcorn it’s so good! So yep, that’s my movie fic!

Dear mods, please direct me to the right list if this has been asked before!! 💚

Wei Wuxian Makes a Wish series by natcat5 (M, 119k, wangxian, major character death, underage, madoka magica au, modern w/ magic, time travel, high school au, body horror, self-harm, angst w/ bittersweet ending, time loop, mental instability, suicidal thoughts) is it cheating if it's technically based on a movie? I didn't need to know anything about what this is based on besides a quick Google but if asker is looking for something that leaves them feeling breathless with all kinds of feelings this is the first one that came to mind

💖 Echo, Murmur, Dream, Here by bluerainmist (M, 51k, wangxian, canon divergence, WWX survives, sect leader WWX, yiling wei sect au, slow burn, angst w/ happy ending, getting together, pining, love confessions, reunions, mind all the tags) I just read this and the descriptions of the armor and battlefields really felt like they would suit huge movie screens. It just had that imax vibe, ya know?

Also maybe 5 should look at the “Beautiful Writing and Good Plot” Compilation | Pt. 2 comps a lot of the fics on there feel like a movie

花无百日红; the flower that withers by yiqie (M, 29k, wangxian, Time Travel Fix-It of Sorts, Case Fic, Spells & Enchantments, Hurt/Comfort, Forgiveness, It's about the emotional catharsis, If you have ever laughed at WWX clowning himself for the 'no one will marry you' scene, This fic is: for you) i'm not a writer so i can't describe the feelings this fic evoked in me, but this is one of those fics that is so prettily written and if it's got a movie adaptation i would definitely watch it

In Imitation of Life by travelingneuritis (E, 70k, wangxian, modern cultivation, scifi au, android WWX, tone: neon seedy, rich people are bored and terrible, post-apocalyptoc landscape, happy ending, smut, severe major characger injury, time loss) everything this author writes is like a movie tbh

symmetry by bleuett (M, 44k, WangXian, Space, Science Fiction, Happy Ending, Non-Sexual Intimacy, Holding Hands, Blow Jobs, Hand Feeding, Cultivation in Space, Yearning, Reunions, Hurt/Comfort, Family Feels, Canon-Typical Violence, Minor Injuries, Grief/Mourning, Unconventional Time Travel, Burial Mounds) I remember reading this and getting major interstellar vibes

💖 Pentimento. by orange_crushed (E, 73k, wangxian, modern, college/university au, art conservation, museums, pining, not actually unrequited love, angst w/ happy ending, misunderstandings, smut, major character injury, hospitalization, hurt/comfort, past incarceration, forgery) this is like an A24 Sundance festival winner, author writes such incredible prose

Post Mortem by Cataclysmic_Calamity (E, 78k, wangxian, modern, Psychological Horror, friends with benefits, they're both fucked up but they love each other so much, Slow Burn Mystery, Unnegotiated Kink, Dom/sub, Anal Sex, Consensual Non-Con, Stalking, Drug Addiction, Serial Killers, in Wei Ying's desire to critique the 'final girl' trope he accidentally becomes one, Angst with a Happy Ending, meta commentary on the horror and true crime genres) A horror movie!!!! Very much on the edge of your seat.

~*~

6. Huge thanks to the mods and participants for this wonderful blog! You keep my Mark for Later list going strong.

ITMF fics where someone tries to harm WWX because of LWJ. Maybe they're obsessively in love with him and want to get rid of the competition, or maybe they hate him and want to hurt him in the worst way possible by hurting the one he loves most, or whatever. Bonus points if Wangxian assume that whoever seems to be coming after WWX is coming after him because he's the Yiling Laozu instead of because he's LWJs love, and so they make wrong assumptions and mistakes. Happy for similar recs also, even if it's not a perfect fit! No Jiang Cheng bashing though plz. Thanks all! @flamingwell

this body yet survives by RoseThorne (T, 50k, WIP, WangXian, No War AU, Recovery, Trauma, Dissociation, Courting Rituals, Near Death Experiences, Attempted Murder, Eventual Happy Ending, Panic Attacks, Protective Siblings, Triggers, Protective LWJ, Protective LQR, Yúnmèng Siblings Dynamics, Bad Parent YZY, POV Third Person, POV LWJ, Depression, Good Sibling JC, Good Sibling JYL)

A Soft Storm by AvoOwO (Not rated, 47k, wangxian, modern au, hurt WWX, LWJ pov, protective LWJ, not SS friendly, car accidents, hurt/comfort, heavy angst w happy ending, sexual harrasment, stalking, crying, blood & injury & gore, major character injury, college, slut shaming, insults)

Coincidence is Another Man's Fate by TriviasFolly (M, 164k, WangXian, Modern AU, A/B/O Dynamics, Alpha LWJ, Omega wwx, Sexual Harassment, Implied/Referenced Sexual Harassment, WangXian play the long game, UNTIL THEY DON'T, Getting Together, fated pairs, Eventual Attempted Sexual Assult and Recovery, Modern Setting - Office, Mpreg)

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7. Hi!! Does anyone know of any fics where dual cultivation classes are part of the lectures that all the young masters attend? I’d love to see them paired up to meditate, study, duel, night hunt, perhaps even take a couple of sex magic classes. In my head I am picturing something like those Harry Potter fics where students are paired due to compatible magic and they study together regardless of house division. Thank you!

turn towards the sun by Ariaste (E, 21k, WangXian, Kushiel's Legacy Fusion, The Night Court (Kushiel's Legacy), Kink Negotiation, Courtesans, Intimacy, BDSM, Consent, Wangxian's canonical fetishes, roughly Cloud Recesses-era, Extracurricular Kissing, Impact Play, Kink Experimentation, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, (aka Madam Yu being canonically willing to hit WWX)) This may not be exactly what was requested but it’s definitely school and wangxian definitely “study” together:)

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8. Are there any fics where Wei Wuxian purposely tries to seduce Lan Wangji? Like he wears revealing clothes, touches him more often, moans while eating...etc? Like, Wei Wuxian knows Lan Wangji likes him and is trying to make him crack by being all flirty/seductive?

puzzle pieces by Yuisaki (T, 6k, WangXian, Modern AU, College/University, Roommates, Fluff, Humor, Friends to Lovers, Sharing Clothes, Getting Together, Pining)

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9. Hi mods! Can I ask for the next ITMF for some fics where WWX, JFM or even LQR are angry at Wei Changze and Cangse Sanren for not being careful enough during night hunts and leaving WWX alone? Something along the lines of why they didn't have a back up plan or why didn't they leave WY in Lotus Pier or somewhere else where he would be looked after while they were busy and risking something happening to him bc they didn't tell anyone where their child was if something happened to them. Doesn't really need to be bashing but definitely some abandonment issues and not WWX just being alright with what his parents did and wanting to do the same

Thanks!! @jiangclaritybell

❤️ The One-Body Problem by metisket (T, 29k, LJY & WWX, LJY & LSZ, wangxian, possession, cohabitation, Mojo’s bookmark) Lan Jingyi (very) briefly mentions how stupid it was for WWX's parents to just leave him when they went off night hunting

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10. Hii!! I hope you guys are well <3

I have a request for the next itmf, i recently read a fic where wwx is adopted by hua lian, so I was wondering if you had more fics in the same category?? The fic i read was the hearth series by eccentrick!!

Thank you in advance ❤️❤️

there's a whole tag Huā Chéng & Xiè Lián (Tiān Guān Cì Fú) Adopt Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn for that, but in specific

Hua Xianle by Tiffany_Guinne (Not rated, 170k, hualian, wangxian, TGCF, canon divergence, not Jiang friendly, madam lan lives, WWX adopted by hualian, WWX with different name, overprotective hualian, hurt WWX, WIP)

Narrative of Strength by MeltedIceAngel (T, 61k, WIP, WangXian, HuaLian, Canon Divergence, Adopt WWX, Found Family, Fluff and Angst, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Protective XL, Protective HC, Adoption, Kidnapping, Attempted Kidnapping, Serious Injuries, Angst with a Happy Ending, TGCF)

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11. Hello, for the next In the mood for, do you have any wangxian fan fic recs of novel canon divergence/fix it that do not feature yunmeng bros reconciliation? Thank you so much in advance!

Lay my body down by tawaen (M, 48k, WWX & WQ, WWX & WN, wangxian, WWX & JYL, canon divergence, time travel, rogue cultivator WWX, no golden core transfer, not cultivation world friendly, not JC friendly, OCs) WWX travels back in time & goes fuck the cultivation world & JC in particular

The Core Issue by Hauntcats (T, 21k, WangXian, Angst with a Happy Ending, Not JC Friendly, Canon Divergence) WWX rebuilds his core while living in the Burial Mounds, JC loses his & is pissed about it

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12. Can you recommend me Darkji fanfic and an oblivious weiying or a dark dark lanzhan where there's an abuse and manipulation included I don't mind🫶🏻

Obelus by Celestios (Not rated, 167k, wangxian, rape/non-con, non-con elements, NO rape, Non-Consensual Spanking, Non-Consensual Punishments, Spanking, Punishments, Dubious Morality, Dubious Consent, physical discipline, Physical Abuse, Toxic Relationships, Abusive Relationship, Kidnapping, Stockholm Syndrome, mention of violence, mention of drugs, Mention of alcohol, Possessive Behavior, Obsessive Behavior, Unhealthy Relationships, dark LWJ, Baker WWX, Bodyguard WN, Mentions of weapons, Gun mentions, Slow Burn, Long, Doctor WQ, Self Medicating, WWX has ADHD, Trauma Bonding, Psychological Manipulation, Gaslighting, Organized Crime, underground crime, Underground business, illegal business)

3-in-1 Shampoo/Conditioner/Bodywash - the Real Gateway Drug by Anonymous (E, 22k, WIP, WangXian, one sided wangxian (but for how long?), sketchy as fuck LWJ, does this count as dark! LWJ, implied bi WWX, modern au - no cultivation, Piss Marking, Come Marking, cum in food, brief cameo of food fucking, piss in food, Exhibitionism, Sloppy Seconds, Alcoholism, mention piss drinking, No Sex, Dead Dove: Do Not Eat, sexually charged assisted pissing, accidental hold, Omorashi, freak4freak, emotional manipulation/subdrop of sorts, co-pissing, panty huffing, Degradation, dubcon blowjob, FaceFucking, Non-Consensual Somnophilia, pissing on someone who's passed out drunk, Spanking, Verbal Humiliation, Mutual Masturbation, jerking off walkthrough (with commentary), threats of edging, mutual CNC fantasies, Unreliable Narrator, I gave LWJ the LBH sized cock he deserves, Bathing, pissing in fleshlight) 3-in-1 shampoo/conditioner/bodywash - the real gateway drug for itfm 12. It’s more extremely dubious consent than actual abuse, but there is definitely a bit of gaslighting.

Kinkotber Day 4: A Shift in Perspective by Anonymous (E, 2k, WangXian, Stockholm Syndrome, Rape/Non-con Elements, there's no violence but he certainly doesn't ask for concent, Dark LWJ, Oblivious WWX, Cockwarming, Exhibitionism, bimboification (kind of), collaring (at the end), Dead Dove: Do Not Eat, PWP, Almost No Dialogue) as the tags say - no actual violence but deffo non/dubcon elements

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13. Hello, do you know any modern or canon au wx fics where wangxian never interacted when they were kids/students but lwj still had a quiet crush on wwx?

and having a marvelous time by varnes (E, 108k, WangXian, Yúnmèng Siblings, Sound of Music AU, (i know!!! i know. stay with me on this.), Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, Family Feels, spies to lovers???, Protective Siblings, Sometimes You Just Want Your Dads To Admit They’re Your Dads, Angst with a Happy Ending)

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14. this might be a weirdly specific request for itmf, but I was wondering if you know of any fics where, either through reincarnation or time travel what have you, Lan Sizhui/Wen Yuan raises Wei Ying or Lan Zhan as his child(ren)?

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15. For the next ITMF, can you recommend fic where characters OTHER than wangxian take ownership of their actions prior to wwx's death? (e.g. abandoning wwx/wen civilians to their fate, the mass slaughter of innocents, stealing & profiting off his work while slandering him, etc). I'm not interested in fics where this ownership has a caveat ("it was bad, but wwx was equally bad or worse" - these are fine but it's just not what I want to read.) Thanks! @balleyboley

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16. Anything with wwx with low self-steem????

the thread may stretch or tangle but it will never break by RoseThorne (E, 88k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Soulmates, Self-Esteem Issues, Fix-It, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Nightmares, PTSD, Handfasting, Panic Attacks, Getting Together, First Time, Aftercare, Implied/Referenced Alcohol Abuse/Alcoholism, Implied/Referenced Torture, Scars, Chronic Pain, Golden Core Reveal, First Time, Switching, sex-related injury, LWJ Stays at the Burial Mounds, LSZ is a Wèi, Good Sibling JC, Dissociation, Burial Mounds Settlement Days)

Welcome to the Family Series by jiejieaini (E, 237k, WangXian, Modern, Hurt/comfort, Fluff, Angst, Explicit Sex)

❤️ The One-Body Problem by metisket (T, 29k, LJY & WWX, LJY & LSZ, wangxian, possession, cohabitation, Mojo’s bookmark) (link in #9) Seeing the “low self esteem” ask in ITMF made me go: any fic ever? If you want a funny response to it, metisket’s One Body Problem has Jingyi. Enough said.

Don't Leave Me by TrippinOnSkies (E, 19k, WangXian, Modern AU, Marriage Proposal, Mental Breakdown, Hurt/Comfort, Fluff and Angst, Panic Attacks, But they are very mild, Overthinking, Good Sibling JC, Break Up, Gentle Sex, Gentle Kissing, Idiots in Love, Pining, Misunderstandings, Oblivious WWX, LWJ Has Feelings, LWJ is Whipped, Getting Together, NHS & WWX Friendship, Friends to Lovers, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy EndingInsecure WWX, WWX Has Issues, WWX Has Self-Esteem Issues, Sad WWX, WWX is Bad at Communicating)

could you find a way to let me down slowly, if you're leaving baby let me down slowly by ravenditefairylights (M, 36k, WangXian, XuanLi, Past MingXian, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Reveal, Implied/Referenced Sex, Miscommunication, Somebody Lives/Not Everyone Dies, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, Twin Prides of Yúnmèng Dynamics, Hurt WWX, Mutual Pining, Unreliable Narrator, Self-Esteem Issues, Twin Prides of Yúnmèng Feels, Protective Siblings, Trauma, Slightly dubious consent, courtesy of drunk sex, Inventor WWX, Genius WWX, Phoenix Mountain, Chronic Pain, Getting Together, Fix-It of Sorts, One Braincell Trio, PTSD)

See Me, Feel Me (Listening to You) by Ghost_Honey (T, 29k, WangXian, POV WWX, WWX Needs a Hug, WWX's Abyssmal Self-Esteem, Emotional Healing, Angst, The Juniors love their Senior Wei, Curses, WWX is an Unreliable Narrator, JC & WWX Reconciliation, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Platonic Cuddling)

pastel by antebunny (G, 6k, WangXian, Modern AU, College/University, Soulmates, Angst, Heavy Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Found Family, Self-Esteem Issues, Misunderstandings, Angst with a Happy Ending, Unrequited Love, but not actually)

to be loved by wqngji (G, 1k, WangXian, Insecure WWX, Petty LWJ, JC is So Done, Domestic Fluff, Mild Hurt/Comfort, Self-Esteem Issues, Self-Doubt, Hugs, Hurt WWX)

leading tone by silencemostofall (G, 32k, WangXian, Modern AU, Soulmates, with a lil twist, Eventual Happy Ending, it will not look like it until the very end but I promise there's a happy ending, lesbian wq rights, Music, Orchestra, platonic and romantic pining, wwx's serious self-worth issues, [Podfic] Leading Tone by silencemostofall by Beria1021)

~*~

17. Is there a fic in which yiling people are protective of wei ying and wants him to come back

End Racism in the OTW | The Fire Lapping Up the Creek by notevenyou (E, 66k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Hurt/Comfort, Injury Recovery, Blood, Respiratory Illness, Major Illness, Fever, Grief/Mourning, Angst with a Happy Ending, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Hunger and food scarcity, Surgery, Fix-It of Sorts) it’s mentioned briefly, I believe

~*~

If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

#wangxian #mdzs #wangxian fic recs #i'm in the mood for a fic #the untamed #wangxian fic search #wangxianficfinder #long post

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butterflydm · 10 months

Text

wot reread: a memory of light (chapter 38-epilogue)

spoilers for a memory of light!

Well, the rest of the chapters have fewer pages in total than chapter 37 did, so this is going to be my last full reread post, though I do have a couple of follow-ups planned.

My timing ended up being pretty good, even though my original intention was just to reread books 1-3 in anticipation of the second season of the show. And now I’ve still got over a month to get good and excited about everything the show will be bringing to the table.

1. We go back to Rand, still deep in his conversation with TDO. The chapter “the Last Battle” really revolved around the battle between the forces outside Shayol Ghul, because it ended when the commander of the other army finally was killed (though there are still a ton of his forces to take care of, the head of the snake was cut off and so was the person who fancied himself Demandred’s replacement).

2. The ‘let go’ that Rand is hearing in his mind is in his father’s voice, and the meaning expands here -- let them sacrifice. it is their choice to make. And then Egwene’s voice -- am I not allowed to be a hero too?

Because this is something that Rand has been resisting over the course of the books -- basically ever since he accepted that he will be the sacrifice, he’s struggled with knowing that he’s not the only one, with knowing that other people are sometimes even sacrificing just to get him here, to this place. And, I imagine, with his tentative plans to maybe even survive this ‘sacrifice’, that’s going to make him feel even more guilty about other people giving up their lives in this fight.

3. He talks in dialogue with Egwene’s voice in his head (given that he’s existing around and between reality, it might really be Egwene’s voice too). He is not in charge of protecting her. He decided to take that charge on himself, back in EotW, but it was never his to claim. Let us die for what we believe, and do not try to steal that from us.

4. And so Rand takes himself through his list again, backwards, this time, releasing his feelings of shame for failing to save them, releasing his need to protect them. Letting go of the mountain that has been crushing him for the majority of the series.

He hadn’t realized how large it had become, how much he had let himself carry.

...

Ilyena was last. We are reborn, Rand thought, so we can do better the next time.

So do better.

5. And now Rand, as he stands surrounded by all time and nothing at the same time, comes to understand that the Darkness was never a being, never an entity of its own. It is the between of everything. It can only win if no one is willing to keep fighting against it.

6. Mat gets the news of Lan’s reported death. As he did with Egwene and with Elayne, he swallows the grief and doesn’t let it show to anyone else, instead using the news to spur the army onward to attack the now-stunned foe.

7. Rand tells TDO that he can’t win, and TDO argues that it has Rand in its grasp right now, and Rand says that that’s missing the point, because it was never just about his victory. The people he lists:

Morgase (?) - a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet

Thom - a man who remembered stories and took fool boys under his wing

Moiraine - a woman who hunted truth before others could

Perrin (?) - a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall

Nynaeve - a woman who refused to believe she could not Heal those who had been harmed

Mat - a hero who insisted with every breath that he was not a hero

Egwene - a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten and who stone with the Light for all who watched

Rand realizes -- “it was never about beating me. It was about breaking me.”

8. Okay, I have to say. I have to! But this is... this is literally also how the Seanchan work. This is their philosophy of life -- to take people and break them to the Seanchan’s purpose. As I’ve said before, there really is no way around the fact that the Seanchan are going to be the Great Evil of the Fourth Age. There are just too many Shadow-Seanchan parallels! Maybe Mat and Min can slow the train slightly but I don’t think they can actually put the breaks on it.

9. But back to now -- Rand and TDO watch the battlefield, where Mat is fighting -- Tam at his side, then Karede and his suicide-slave troops, then Loial and the Ogier. “Outnumbered three to one”. Mat is shouting in the Old Tongue: For the Light! For honor! For glory! For life itself!

I will take a moment to be glad that, despite the first half of this book trying so hard to align Mat with the slavers for whatever fucking reason, he’s not fighting for the slavers in this battle. That he actually did become the General of the Forces of the Light, not primarily the General of the Slavers. Looking back, it really does feel like the change was signaled when Mat first took off his Seanchan clothes and put back on his Two Rivers coat*. That seems to have been a visual cue about his change in characterization -- how he started pushing back more against Tuon, forcing her into more compromises, and standing more aligned with the Forces of Light rather than pandering to the slavers all the time. idk, maybe forcing Mat over to Ebou Dar at the start of the book was Sanderson’s way of trying to finally create a synthesis between the horrible Mat of CoT & KoD and the non-horrible Mat of the earlier books, and he felt like he actually had to take Seanchan!Mat to his worst conclusion before bringing him out again? It still really sucks that the Mat and Rand reunion happened during our low point of Mat’s characterization, though.

(* which appears to have been triggered by the ‘not pleasant’ conversation that Mat and Tuon had after Tuon berates him for not telling her that Egwene was briefly enslaved by the Seanchan. After that (off-screen) conversation, Mat starts being much more combative re: the Seanchan -- after that conversation is when he has his bitter/sarcastic thought that he’s not done much to convince Tuon to stop using damane and when he suggests to Min that she mislead Tuon about her viewings to try to soften her stance on Aes Sedai; so I think we can safely give Egwene credit for the turnaround in Mat’s characterization -- I wish that that conversation between Mat and Tuon hadn’t happened off-screen! like so many important emotional moments!, but it seems like perhaps that was a watershed moment for Mat)

Rand and TDO watch, and TDO taunts Rand “the son of battles. I will take him [Mat!]. I will take them all, adversary. As I took the king of nothing [this is Lan, I assume]”.

10. Mat thinks about how he knows he can win this battle, despite the horrible odds. He just needs “a favorable toss of the dice”.

And, not too far away, with the Trollocs outside his hiding place, Olver gives up on the idea of trying to get the Horn to Mat, and lifts the Horn of Valere to his lips.

11. First Mat, and then everyone else, hears Rand’s voice -- he calls out Shai’tan as wrong, telling everyone that Lan isn’t dead. And just after he says that, Mat hears the familiar golden and clear note of the Horn of Valere.

...wow, the Seanchan feel so superfluous to requirements right now. They didn’t show up until after the final combat was engaged, after Rand had his final necessary epiphany, after the Horn was blown (they have still not shown up, technically).

I’m going to take a moment to daydream about a world where Tuon’s nature as marath’damane was revealed and accepted, so she really did flee with the Seanchan (so that she can try to recover from this blow to her powerbase) and the Seanchan never returned to the Last Battle. This would be a much easier way to de-tangle Mat from the Seanchan than whatever he’s gonna need to actually do post-canon.

12. The Heroes of the Horn return and our first sight of them is Birgitte coming to save Elayne from Mellar, with a shining silver arrow. 😍

Birgitte standing over her own corpse kinda cracks me up. Good for her! It’s also probably the first time she’s felt like herself in books and books.

“That was the bloody Horn of Valere!” Mat announces to his troops. “We can still win this night!” Inside, he marvels over how the Horn was sounded without him, showing that one of the things that he’d believed that he was permanently tied to isn’t tied to him after all.

Well, if that knot can be untied, Mat, maybe another one can be as well.

13. Between losing Demandred and the appearance of the Heroes of the Horn, the Shadow are now the ones who are on the defensive, with some Trollocs breaking and trying to run away.

The mist of the Heroes forms near Mat and he feels a moment of worry, wondering if maybe someone on the side of the Shadow summoned them. Hawkwing rides up to Mat, and tells him, “Do take better care of what has been allotted you. Almost, I worried we would not be summoned for this fight.”

I know, right? The lack of urgency in the Mat-in-Ebou-Dar half of the book about actually getting him to Merrilor to blow the Horn was really frustrating to me too!

When Mat confirms that this mean they’re fighting for the Light, Hawkwing tells him, “We would never fight for the Shadow.” The rumors about the Horn are wrong -- I feel like we learned this back in TGH as well but, you know, Mat was dying at the time, so I don’t blame him for not remembering.

Yeah, here’s the line: “We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon.” So it was Rand, Perrin, and Mat who learned that. But, like I said, I don’t blame Mat for not remembering.

14. Hawkwing and Amaresu both scold Mat for not showing Rand enough appreciation for saving his life. Honestly, so fair and legit for Mat to finally be on the other end of a scolding like that. “I have seen you murmur that you fear his madness but all the while you forget that every breath you breathe - every step you take - comes at his forbearance. Your life is a gift from the Dragon Reborn, Gambler. Twice over.”

Mat feels so scolded. As he deserves.

He’s told that they can fight here because they have Rand’s banner and because Rand is... technically sort-of kind-of leading them... from a distance.

Amazingly, Mat takes a moment out of this encounter to marvel at how pretty one of the heroes is and then Remind Himself again that he’s married. He really does have to keep Reminding Himself. One of these days, he’s not going to remember to Remind Himself until after he’s already slept with someone else. It’s been more subtle in this book than in ToM, but Mat is still constantly checking out Every Other Lady around him.

15. Olver gets dug out of his hole by Trollocs but Noal, now one of the Heroes, arrives to save him. I don’t care about Noal, and Jordan definitely didn’t do enough to build up their relationship in CoT & KoD, but I still got a little misty at the tiny orphan child feeling grateful that one of the people who ‘abandoned’ him has finally come back.

16. haha, this next chapter is called ‘wolfbrother’ so I guess that Perrin is finally gonna wake up. But first, we have Elayne!

She’s able to wriggle lose enough to make the medallion copy shift away from her skin and fall to the ground, and now she can embrace saidar again. Elayne apologizes to Birgitte but Birgitte laughs it off, “Why do you mourn, Elayne? I have it all back! My memory has returned. It is wonderful! I don’t know how you stood me these last few weeks. I moped worse than a child who’d just broken her favorite toy.” Ah, yeah, that confirms that Birgitte’s spiral into bitterness was not meant to be a reflection of Elayne but on the dark place that Birgitte was in, with her loss of memories, I think. But it’s a shame that it feels like parts of the fandom just took Birgitte’s unrelated bitterness as a reason to slam on Elayne more. My girl gets so much undeserved hate.

And Elayne and Birgitte will ride back into the battle together. Not as Aes Sedai and Warder, but as friends. 😍 😍 😍 😍

17. Aviendha! I’ve missed you! Her timeline isn’t advancing as quickly as it has been for those further away from Shayol Ghul, so not as much as happened here in the valley. She can feel the channeling inside the Pit of Doom - “a quiet pulse”. Oh! The wolfbrother of the chapter’s title is actually Elyas, who Aviendha runs across now. The Darkhound Wild Hunt is happening, and hundreds of wolves have come to fight back against them.

Aviendha is about to go fetch channelers to help bring down the Darkhounds, when she spies Graendal a bit higher on the slope, with some Turned channelers, and Aiel guards under compulsion. Aviendha alerts her companions (Amys & Cadsuane) and then begins the fight against Graendal.

18. Elayne has a sword again. Where is she getting these swords? I’m just gonna assume it’s made out of Air or something. More useful than the sword, Elayne creates a banner with the Power, the red lion of Andor, lighting up the night.

19. [Mat] remembered, within those memories that were not his, leading forces far grander. Armies that were not fragmented, half-trained, wounded and exhausted. But Light help him, he had never been so proud.

...

This was the moment he had been seeking. It was the card upon which to bet everything he had. Ten to one odds, still, but the Sharan army, the Trollocs and the Fades had no head. No general to guide them.

...

Elayne’s death had been a lie. Her troops had been in disarray - they had lost more than a third of their soldiers - but just as they were about to be routed by the Trollocs, she rode into their midst and rallied them.

20. Catching up with Moggy! Hi, Moghedien. I bet your Last Battle is going pretty shitty. She kicks Demandred’s abandoned corpse. Oh, his devoted Shendla just left his body there to rot? Yikes. For Moghedien, she discovers that now that so many of the Chosen have been killed off, TDO is ready to let her have a taste of that sweet sweet True Power.

She disguises herself as Demandred and heads to the Sharan forces. I have to admit, given how open Min has been about her Talents, it’s kinda astonishing that Moghedien doesn’t know about her viewings. Min will tell anyone who stands still for five seconds, plus Tuon announced her as a Doomseer and has been plumping her up for the past whatever-number of chapters.

Moghedien starts to gear up for her role as Fake Demandred...

...and then she gets a blast of cannon/dragon-fire in her face from the Band’s part of Mat’s plan.

21. Instead of the Band leaving their caves to fight; channelers are opening them up brief windows to shoot through. Aludra is placed up on a high location with a spy-glass, giving orders to the channelers for the next locations for the booms. Honestly very clever.

22. As Aviendha fights in the valley, plants grow to cover her passage.

They had come right when she had needed them to hide her approach. Happenstance? She chose to believe otherwise. She could feel [Rand], in the back of her mind. He fought, a true warrior. His battle lent her strength, and she tried to return the same.

Determination. Honor. Glory. Fight on, shade of my heart. Fight on.

😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍 😍

23. Aviendha kills a Compelled attacker, only realizing it’s Rhuarc after she has struck the fatal blow. She kills him moments before he would have killed her, and only her shoulder gets injured.

She does her best to convince herself that she only killed a shell. That Rhuarc was already dead.

There is a burst of determination from Rand (Strength, Aviendha) and her fatigue leaves her, and she refocuses on the fight.

24. Aviendha studies Graendal and decides on her approach -- she creates a spear made out of fire and light, and some other weaves in reserve -- and charges for Graendal. See, this makes a lot more sense that Elayne randomly having a sword, because this is a weapon and Aviendha knows and has trained in most of her life. I think that Sanderson Just Likes Swords tbh.

I really love the description here because of how it brings back Aviendha’s Maiden roots as she launches her attack on Graendal. The ground explodes underneath her (her legs get pretty destroyed, it sounds like), but she’s leaping up already aimed like a spear herself, and she sinks the spear into Graendal’s side just as Graendal is using the True Power to Travel... and because they’re touching, she goes along with Graendal when she Travels.

25. Mat rides with the Heroes of the Horn. He gets them to confirm that he isn’t one of them. He can see Elayne from where he is.

Mat saw Elayne’s banner glowing above them in the sky, crafted of the One Power, and caught a glimpse of someone who looked like her riding among the soldiers, hair glowing as if lit from behind her. She seemed a bloody Hero of the Horn herself.

26. And then the great battle is over, at least here on the battlefield.

He would have to thank Tuon for returning. He did not go looking for her, though. He had a feeling she would expect him to perform his princely duties, whatever they might be.

Hmm.

27. He does feel that tugging. Rand needs him. He tries to convince himself that this was his part, out here, and whatever is going on where Rand is... that’s Rand’s business. The dice are still tumbling in his head. This part here manages to capture Mat’s double-think in a way that I didn’t feel like came across in the actual chapter when we had the Rand & Mat reunion.

After trying to talk himself out of it, Mat ends up saying that he’s a fool because “I need to go to Rand.”

As a parting note, he asks Hawkwing to go have a conversation with “their Empress” (Tuon), and hmm, interesting. Okay, I need to break this down a bit.

So, one of the things that gave Tuon the big jollies back in the negotiation chapter with Rand was Mat referring to the Seanchan forces as “our forces”, which she basically interpreted as “haha you’re mine now, no take-backs”. And here, he does not call the Seanchan empress “my” Empress. He says she’s “their” Empress. The Empress of the Seanchan, who he is not currently identifying with, it would seem. So. That’s interesting.

We don’t get to see the conversation between Hawkwing and Tuon, of course, but what would Mat assume about what Hawkwing would tell Tuon? Why would Mat send Hawkwing to talk to her? The Heroes of the Horn follow Rand, pretty explicitly. They literally just recently scolded Mat for not appreciating Rand enough. They are aware of current events in the world and of the Seanchan Empire.

Which is to say... of course, Mat is assuming that Hawkwing will try to set Tuon straight on how to be an Empress without abusing millions of people under her power. Hawkwing told him that they would never fight for the Shadow. I think it’s reasonable for Mat to assume that he would disapprove of slavery. And Hawkwing’s hatred of Aes Sedai in his lifetime was canonically influenced by Ishamael, if I recall correctly, so the idea that Ishamael’s corruption is still influencing him in his Horn-form just seems like kinda silly to me. So. That’s my stance on that. Mat has clearly stated in recent chapters that he disapproves of the damane system, in particular, and that he wants to influence Tuon to soften her stance on Aes Sedai. So we know what Mat’s motivations are in sending Hawkwing off to talk to her. And it kinda fits Mat’s pattern of trying to use other people to influence Tuon to be less awful.

28. Rand has thought about Mat often, here in the battle with TDO. He thinks of him again -- Beneath them, on the battlefield, the Trollocs had fallen, beaten by a young gambler from the Two Rivers.

29. Oh, hey, Perrin just woke up. Page 853. He went to sleep on page 670. Nice long nap. Missed... a lot of stuff.

He learns that the battle at Merrilor has been won, but the battle at Thakan’dar, outside of Shayol Ghul, rages on. He gets his exhaustion washed away by one of the Aes Sedai and goes physically back into TAR (where he left Gaul to guard the cave where Rand fights).

30. In the waking world, Thom is the one guarding that cave entrance and he ponders the various ways that the ending of the world can be turned into a song, once this is all over.

31. Mat goes to Grady and tells him that he needs to be taken to Shayol Ghul. He’s brought Rand’s banner with him. Hanging out with Grady are Olver and Noal. The dice are still tumbling in Mat’s head. As far as I can tell, they haven’t stopped since Elayne asked him if he knew what he was doing.

Mat, on thinking about Noal/Jain becoming a Hero of the Horn:

Well, you wouldn’t find Mat trading places with him. Noal might enjoy it, but Mat wouldn’t dance at another man’s command. Not for immortality itself, no he wouldn’t.

Another data point that I’m placing into the pile.

Grady says that Traveling is wonky in that direction. Can’t be done.

Mat won’t accept that as an answer, and he gets Grady to take him (and Olver) as close as they can get -- a Seanchan scouting camp, a day away.

32. lol, we get a tiny glimpse into Fain the mist god-demon here. This just feels so anti-climatic, to still have Fain around at a time like this. Anyway, he’s basically a walking Shadar Logoth at this point. Fain kinda suffers from the same issues as Slayer, in that it feels like he’s a villain that the story grew past and yet he hung around anyway.

33. Gaul has been standing alone against Slayer all this time in TAR, fighting against him and protecting Rand, on his own, while Perrin was taking his restorative nap. But now Perrin is back to help. On the plus side, because of the time dilation stuff, only two hours has passed for Gaul in here.

34. Since he couldn’t take a gateway to Shayol Ghul, Mat is going by dragon to’raken. And, yes, Mat takes time out of his terror at being up so high to notice how pretty the morat’to’raken is, even as he thinks that anyone willing to do this must be “completely insane”. Olver, who is riding with them, is having a great time, though.

From up high, Mat sees a mist covering the valley below and gets a tingling that tells him... it’s about Fain and the dagger.

35. Then their to’raken gets hit by arrows, killing the rider or knocking her out. Mat undoes his straps and climbs over to take the to’raken’s reins. So he’s... he’s riding the closest thing that this world has to a dragon. Subtext, fun for the whole family.

He does his best to give them a gentle landing. It is not terribly gentle.

36. In the aftermath of the crash, Mat thinks that kidnapping Tuon (aka marrying her) is the worst decision that he’s ever made. Hmm. And this is after she ‘returned’ to the battlefield per their plan.

“That,” [Mat] finally groaned, “is the worst bloody idea I’ve ever had.” He hesitated. “Maybe the second worst.” He had decided to kidnap Tuon, after all.

And he doesn’t undercut that thought with any kind of caveat. He just lets it stand as he moves on to the next thing. Another interesting data point.

37. Mat literally panics when he realizes that Rand’s banner has gone missing during their dragon to’raken flight. Why does it seem like Sanderson is so much better at writing Cauthor-related scenes when Mat and Rand are separated from each other?

Olver points out that the swirling clouds above them are forming Rand’s sign, and then he blows the Horn again, for good measure.

38. Rand breaks out of his frozen battle with TDO and re-enters his own body. “From his watching of the Pattern, he knew that although only minutes had passed here since he’d entered, in the valley outside this cavern, days had passed, and farther out into the world, it had been much longer.”

He points Callandor at Moridin, and Moridin promptly throws a knife at Alanna.

Broke back to consciousness by Nynaeve’s herbs, Alanna pulls herself together long enough to release the bond she forced on Rand before she dies.

...I kinda feel the need to point out that Moiraine has done nothing but be a battery for Rand since she entered the cave with him.

I also feel bad for Alanna, who really disappeared from the story once Min was bonded to Rand and could take over as Cadsuane’s Rand mood-ring, and now is only here so that she can die. I have extremely large beef against Alanna for forcibly bonding Rand but it feels like the story really should have used that beat even more than it did, rather than it disappearing after WH.

39. Perrin kills Slayer. Finally. And then he pulls back out of TAR and is “on the rocks in the valley of Thakan’dar”, near where the Aiel are gathered.

40. Mat leaves Olver with the Heroes and meets up with Perrin at the mouth of the cave. So, yes, Mat and Perrin get another reunion. Why does Perrin! Get all the reunions! This is what I was talking about when I said how annoyed I was that Mat thinking about Rand tugging on him wouldn’t end up with any good payoff. All we get is yet another Mat and Perrin reunion.

That Rand is literally inside that cave and yet the three ta’veren do not reunite here is honestly somewhat infuriating for me. Genuinely those two things: the Emond’s Five reunite and the ta’veren three reunite should have been at the TOP of Sanderson’s priority list! There is a lot that I have enjoyed about AMoL but there are just way too many important emotional moments that were either skipped or didn’t happen at all but should have happened.

And, fuck, letting Mat and Rand have a scene that doesn’t take place during Mat’s weird Ebou Dar adventure. That would have been nice! Once Mat decides that he’s not going to be a lapdog for the Seanchan/Tuon anymore, his storyline and his PoV get so much better and so much more enjoyable and I am just... eternal bitterness that our only Mat & Rand reunion was plopped into our most lapdoggy-Mat era.

Mat came here specifically to protect Rand and then he never sees him! That is just fucking awful. They deserved a better reunion. What was the point of having the Heroes scold Mat if we didn’t actually get to see Mat and Rand interact again after it? This is kinda a place where the epilogue is mostly at fault -- Mat just strolling off to plan a fireworks show for Tuon post-Last Battle conflicts pretty hard with him spending time with his dying best friend, tonally-speaking -- but that really just makes it all the more frustrating that the only Cauthor reunion took place when Mat was in his worst Seanchan-era.

41. Aviendha attacks Graendal with an exploding gateway; and Mat kills Fain/Mordeth/etc.

And Perrin almost takes off to go searching for Faile but manages to resist the urge: If Rand died, then he would lose Faile. And everything else.

Yes. I have tried to yell this at the fictional characters so many times: if the world dies, then so does your sweetheart! It’s nice that Perrin finally listened.

42. And for his final trick, Moridin grabs Callandor, and Moiraine and Nynaeve spring their trap, using the flaw in Callandor to take control of the ‘circle’ that Moridin has accidentally formed with them. With Moridin having pulled the True Power, Rand is now able to enter the link, and Moiraine and Nynaeve can feed him all three sets of Power: saidar, saidin, and the True Power. Light explodes from him, and from Shayol Ghul, as Rand uses the True Power to protect himself as he reaches through the Bore and grabs onto the Dark One.

43. We get a quick beat of people reacting to the light:

Elayne is on the battlefield of Merrilor, as they search for the living among the dead. She feels the “swelling of power in Rand” and her attention focuses on him.

Thom shields his eyes as the light bursts from the entrance to the Pit of Doom.

Min appears to have managed to get away from the Seanchan for now, changing linens for the wounded, perhaps also on the Field of Merrilor.

Aviendha is drawn back from the darkness of near-death by the light and the warmth of Rand inside her, and realizes that her explosion twisted the compulsion weave so that Graendal compelled herself to worship Aviendha. Awkward!

Logain sees the light and knows that it’s what was meant by the message that Egwene sent, and he breaks the seals on the Dark One’s prison.

44. In TAR, Perrin runs across Lanfear. Together, they walk into Shayol Ghul, and we learn that she apparently compelled Perrin a little while ago? He’s able to pull out of it by reminding himself of his duty and of Faile, and he snaps her neck, killing her.

*squints at the scene*

Yeah, I mean. That’s certainly still what looks like happened? Sorry, Sanderson, I’m not seeing your hints here about Lanfear tricking Perrin and surviving.

45. Rand holds the Dark One in his hand. Or the representation of his hand. And, once again, when Rand tells TDO how pitiful he is, all I see are echoes of the Seanchan:

You would have enslaved me as you would have enslaved the others. You cannot give oblivion. Rest is not yours. Only torment.

Rand can feel himself dying, his life blood slipping away. Realizing that the world that he’d seen without the Dark One would have been the truth, he knows that he cannot kill it. So he thrusts TDO back into his prison, braids saidar and saidin together to reforge a new shield onto the Bore.

With this new form of the Power, Rand pulled together the rent that had been made here long ago by foolish men.

He understood, finally, that the Dark One was not the enemy.

It never had been.

(because it only reflected the evil that people were already capable of)

46. The black hole inside the cave expands, as Moiraine and Nynaeve run for the safety of the cave entrance.

47. And now we are at the epilogue.

Much like I did with The Last Battle chapter, I’ll take the epilogue in sections by character. Rand & co will go last, this time.

Perrin

The spirits of the dead wolves fade back into the dream. Perrin voluntarily worries about Rand? Wow, that feels kinda out of character for Perrin, who has always been way better at pushing away thoughts of Rand than Mat has been, but I guess let’s go with it. It seems to exist to tell us that Perrin no longer sees color swirls and no longer feels any tugging towards anything. “Those seemed like very bad signs.”

“Have you sent for the three?”

What a weird way to ask “do Rand’s girlfriends know that he’s dying?”

I’m going to take a minute and count up the PoV & page counts everyone gets in the epilogue.

Rand: 3 PoVs (4 pages total)

Mat: 2 PoVs (1 1/5 pages)

Perrin: 3 PoVs (6 1/5 pages)

Loial: 1 PoV (3 pages)

Moghedien: 1 PoV (1 page)

Nynaeve: 1 PoV (2 pages)

Birgitte: 1 PoV (1 page)

Tam: 1 PoV (1 page)

Min: 1 PoV (1/2 page)

Cadsuane: 1 PoV (1 page)

That’s a lot of Perrin, comparatively-speaking.

Anyway, Perrin finds Faile, happy ending, etc.

...oh, I just looked it up and Sanderson answered some questions about the epilogue (tor[dot]com/2013/01/23/brandon-sandersons-wheel-of-time-answers-from-torchat/)! He added Perrin’s and Loial’s scene(s). Ha! I knew that Loial was a Sanderson addition because he uses “Matrim” instead of Mat (that is, imo, by far the easiest ‘tell’ of a Sanderson scene -- someone using ‘Matrim’ when they normally wouldn’t). And the Perrin scenes make sense too because it really builds off of and finishes the narrative thread that was at play earlier in the book for Perrin, which was presumably all written by Sanderson.

Mat

Mat strolls away from the aftermath of having killed Padan Fain, calling the dagger “a gamble I don’t want to touch”. The dice stop rolling in Mat’s head after he decides not to pick up the dagger. Hmm. Mat avoiding becoming the new Fain for the Fourth Age?

After that, we skip to his scene with Tuon. And there are only those two scenes with Mat in the epilogue -- killing Fain and finding out that he’s been baby-trapped into the Seanchan Empire. Though Perrin confirms in his own PoV scenes that he no longer gets the swirls or the tugging, we don’t get the same kind of confirmation in Mat’s (very short) scenes.

I will say that there is more subtlety in Mat’s ending here than I had remembered -- I was extremely unhappy about his ending but this marriage is pretty troubled already in the text, and so it’s not really the book that tries to pretend this is a happy “babies ever after” ending for Mat; I feel like that’s maybe more of a vibe that I got from fans at the time, rather than from the text. There are a lot of “male power fantasy” fans who just really like that Mat ends up married to an Empress and commanding vast armies, I think, at least from what I’ve seen around the internet (and especially back when the series was originally published).

And Mat specifically forces a grin at the news that Fortuona is pregnant, so he’s not genuinely happy about it (and we got things in recent chapters like Mat thinking that kidnapping Tuon was the worst idea he’d ever had).

But, honestly, I do still hate that it happens. I hate it up one side and down the other. It sucks as an ending for Mat so much. Miserable marriage, awful wife, horrible shackles tying him to a terrible fascist empire built on slavery.

That being said... just Tuon’s rule is incredibly fragile, this marriage is also incredibly fragile (which is probably why Jordan slapped a baby in there to begin with -- otherwise, given his general misery level in many of the Seanchan-related scenes, it’s difficult to see how Mat could bring himself to stick with Tuon for long enough to do whatever plot-related things Jordan was imagining would have happened in the outriggers -- the baby is a trap for Mat, not from Tuon but from Jordan).

There are still so many things about the Seanchan that could end up being deal-breakers for Mat if he finds out about them!

(ex. Bodewhin Cauthon is never mentioned in the books after Knife of Dreams, so it is entirely possible that she is among the new damane who were taken by the Seanchan in recent days, and Mat might end up seeing his sister with a collar around her neck post-canon. How would he react to that? And to Tuon’s unwillingness to let her go?)

In addition to Mat potentially seeing people he knows and cares about in collars, we also have the possibility of him learning just how brutal Tuon’s attack against the White Tower was (there isn’t any indication that he knows about the attack at all yet); or Talmanes telling him about Verin’s letter and Mat realizing how damaging his fear of Aes Sedai has been for the world; or further in the future there’s Mat’s potential reaction to the lethal political wrangling that Imperial heirs are meant to get up to (he was disturbed enough that Galgan liking him only means that subpar assassins will be sent against him -- when he realizes that Tuon might well encourage their own kids to kill each other to win her favor, it’s very hard to see him brushing that off). Plus he’s regained his sense of disgust over the damane system. So there are a lot of powderkegs waiting to be blown sky-high for Mat, post-canon.

idk, Mat’s storyline is maybe the one where I most have to untangle whether I dislike it more because I feel like it was executed poorly or if I dislike it because it sets up a situation that will never get resolution. And how connected are those things?

A big frustration that I’ve had with how Jordan and then Sanderson handled Mat’s storyline over the course of the last few books of the series was how many shortcuts were taken with his character and how artificial forcing him into the Seanchans’ arms has felt to me.

a. Mat getting trapped in Ebou Dar and then all the characters involved taking a vow of silence when it came to telling Rand about it. Mat getting trapped in Ebou Dar is plot nonsense: relatively forgivable. But having multiple characters being given the opportunity to change that situation and just... not bothering to do it is... that’s a characterization issue. It severely impacted my feelings about Nynaeve for Jordan to turn her into the kind of person who just doesn’t bother to tell Rand that his best friend was left behind in that kind of perilous situation. Plot manipulations... that’s just how the plot works. But over and over, characters got broken or bent for the purpose of jamming Mat into the Seanchan storyline.

b. Setalle Anan is a minor character, so I get why people don’t care about her, but she’s a character who pretty much completely reverses her characterization between WH & CoT (in WH, she is anti-slavery and finds Mat charming and trustworthy; in CoT & KoD, she protects and waits on Tuon while treating Mat like the dangerous one, including betraying Mat’s secrets to Tuon -- and her betrayals are never acknowledged by the text in any way; she just keeps on being treated as if she’s a friendly supporting character) and, from what I could see, it’s just so obviously done in order to protect Tuon from ever having even a sliver of character growth rather than it making sense for Setalle Anan’s character.

c. We keep tiptoeing up to the brink of Actually Having A Plot Happen with the Seanchan and then backing away at the last minute without really having a good reason to do it. Incredibly frustrating. This was one of my main annoyances with CoT & KoD. And in AMoL, both Rand and Egwene inexplicably back down when they have Tuon on the ropes and off-balance.

d. Mat’s teleportation to Ebou Dar in-between Towers of Midnight and A Memory of Light. I’ve talked about this one a lot but yeah. It’s just... really bad? I do suspect that Sanderson couldn’t figure out any way to actually make it believable that Mat would go to the Seanchan and that’s why he had it all happen off-the-page. But the careless damage that it does to Mat’s characterization is just horrific. Mat gets ripped out of the action of the first third of the book, and doesn’t get to the Last Battle itself until the book is more than half over. Once Mat is actually engaging in the Last Battle, his characterization steadies a lot but especially those first four chapters with Mat, it feels like we’re only working with half of his characterization and the other half has vanished somewhere in-between ToM & AMoL.

(and if Mat hadn’t been cut-and-pasted from the Tower of Ghenjei over to Ebou Dar, then we would have had a full reunion at Merrilor. So I’m annoyed/bitter about that too)

I could keep going but... let’s keep it at four issues for right now so that we’re not here all day, lol.

All of those issues are problems that I had with the execution of the storyline.

I am not inherently opposed to depressing endings for characters that I love but... it has to be done well. It has to make sense. And Mat’s ending just... required cutting away too many parts of him (and other characters) for it to make sense to me.

But though it is not always handled well (to put it mildly), Mat’s storyline with Tuon (and Tylin before her) is an example of the ‘typical gender roles are swapped’ done in a way that is more down to the very core of his storyline than a lot of other storylines, which are more on the surface.

He’s much less politically powerful than his spouse and needs to use guile, intrigue, and manipulation to get his way and try to persuade her to a gentler and kinder path than her warlike nature naturally aligns towards.

He undergoes something of a gender-swapped version of “The Taming of the Shrew” storyline, in which a fiercely independent person gets coerced/’tamed’ into being a properly submissive spouse (or, depending on your interpretation, into pretending to be one) -- many of the tricks that Tuon and Tylin use are similar to what Petruchio does to Katherine in the play. Mat gets publicly humiliated and starved by Tylin into submitting to her (which is what Petruchio does to Katherine during/after their wedding), and isolated away from his past connections during his time with Tuon, where he constantly has to act to try to figure out how to appease her without provoking her temper (Petruchio compares taming Katherine to falcon-taming, but Tuon would probably compare it to horse-training or damane-breaking), and Petruchio changes her name from ‘Katherine’ to ‘Kate’, which fits pretty well with Tuon’s insistence on never once calling Mat ‘Mat’.

Plus Mat getting his name changed to indicate that he now ‘belongs’ to Tuon’s people fits into this general category -- and historically, in the culture that Jordan belonged to, that’s normally a role given to women, to be given a new name that shows that they are now of their husband’s people and not their father’s; it’s usually their last name but, in the not too-distant past (and maybe currently in some places as well, idk), at least in the USA, women were often referred to as Mrs. “husband’s first name” “husband’s last name” with none of their own name making it into the address.

But a lot of the issues that I have with how this was written is that it felt like Mat was behaving like his hand was forced even when it wasn’t. Which is definitely a writing issue -- it’s a similar issue to the one that I have with the Rand & Min romance, for example, where Min desperately chases after something even though she doesn’t really want it at the start. Prophecy gets used as a way to skip actually writing important character or relationship beats, instead of prophecy being one of many tools in the writer’s kit.

So, yeah, it really is the execution of the storyline that is the biggest problem for me with Mat & Tuon, and the way it feels like he is pulled away from his other attachments whether or not that makes any narrative or character sense.

I really hope that the show does better with them, and with Mat in his endgame (should we get there, etc.).

I will say that I do think that Sanderson handled the romance better than Jordan did; the main problem was that it was already fundamentally broken by how the relationship was written in CoT & KoD, imo (the KoD collaring chapter in particular made me despise them as a pairing and my feelings never recovered from that moment). But in Sanderson’s books, we actually see the effects of Tuon compromising with Mat during various points of the Last Battle (though we see don’t actually see their private discussions and/or arguments that lead to those compromises), and there’s always a throughline showing how miserable the Seanchan lifestyle is for Mat, and those are two things that were majorly missing from CoT & KoD for me, but that make sense as the only way to make the romance even half-believable for Mat’s pre-established characterization from WH and earlier.

The three big issues that I have with Sanderson’s Mat are: the terrible first chapter of TGS (with the gross sexism); the terrible first chapter of AMoL (now featuring inexplicable teleportation); and the deep deep disservice done to Mat and Rand’s friendship (Rand got a personal goodbye with EVERYONE important to him EXCEPT Mat! And Mat got a personal reunion with everyone important to him, except Rand! All they got was the negotiation scene that was ultimately all about Fortuona and the Seanchan treaty, with Mat and Rand’s friendship being the set dressing around the scene).

But the relationship with Tuon honestly... makes a lot more sense in this book than it did in CoT & KoD (once we work past the brain-breaking logistics of the first chapter or so). There are TONS of hints that Mat has uncomfortable vibes going on underneath his casual exterior, plus Tuon actually does make some attempts at compromising with him, and if the well hadn’t been poisoned by how much I despised CoT/KoD-era Mat & Tuon then... I might have had a chance at enjoying AMoL-era Mat & Tuon for the toxic trainwreck that it is.

But, like all the characters & relationships in AMoL, we skip some pretty big moments in the Mat & Tuon relationship -- we see the effects of them compromising but we never actually see them coming to that compromise in private, which I feel like we needed after how unyielding and frankly how annoying Jordan made Tuon about everything.

We do end up with a Mat & a ‘Fortuona’ who remain at cross-purposes -- Mat continues to think of and refer to her as ‘Tuon’ while Fortuona has kinda reversed from thinking of him as a ‘buffoon’ to instead believing that he has the same kind of practical motivations behind his choices that she does, which is also not accurate. But Sanderson did add in some actual give-and-take to their relationship, which Jordan never seemed willing to do, so the AMoL-era Mat & Tuon is a lot more genuinely engaging for me, even if I do still think that they are one of the most obviously doomed fictional marriages that I have ever seen.

Final Mat-related question for the moment: the Seanchan Empire is based on authoritarian governments throughout history, so does how the Seanchan Empire operates mimic the behavior of a cult?

The popular model for cults is the BITE model, which was developed by a man who was deprogrammed from the Moon cult in 1976 (Steve Hassan). It’s an acronym:

Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotion control. BITE.

Do the Seanchan seek to control people’s behavior? (yes) Do they seek to control the flow of information that the people under them learn? (yes) Do they seek to have their members reject critical thought and only apply to the group-think? (yes) Do they manipulate the emotions of their followers, usually instilling fear or paranoia about outsiders? (yes)

We know from earlier books that the Seanchan culture =/= the Seanchan Empire. There are constant civil wars and uprisings in their native land. This is explicitly why they are such good soldiers, because they are always fighting each other. Yet they present themselves as a monolith when they come to the Westlands, bragging about how they’re here to bring ‘order’ to a lawless continent. What they say about themselves does not match the truth of what else we know about them.

How does the Seanchan Empire exercise its control over its people? Everything I included here is something I think we’ve see the Empire do, but I did bold ones that are particularly blatant in the text.

Behavior control: Control types of clothing and hairstyles; permission required for major decisions; rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors both positive and negative; discourage individualism; encourage group-think; impose rigid rules and regulations; punish disobedience by beating, torture, burning, cutting, rape, or tattooing/branding; threaten harm to family and friends; encourage and engage in corporal punishment; instill dependency and obedience; kidnapping; beating; torture; murder

Information control: Distort information to make it more acceptable; systematically lie to the cult members; minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information; ensure that information is not freely accessible; control information at different levels and missions within group; allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when; encourage spying on other members; impose a buddy system to monitor and control member; report deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership; ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group; extensive use of cult-generated propaganda

Thought control: require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth; adopting the group’s ‘map of reality’ as reality; instill black and white thinking; organize people into us vs them; change person’s name and identity; use of loaded language and cliches which constrict knowledge; encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts; thought-stopping techniques to shut down reality testing: denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking; rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism; forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy; labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful

Emotion control: teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt; make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault; promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness; instill fear, such as fear of: thinking independently, the outside world, leaving or being shunned by the group; ritualistic and sometimes public confessions of sins; phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority, no happiness or fulfillment possible outside of group; shunning of those who leave; being told there is never a legitimate reason to leave.

“Destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause; it is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present.“ (in this case, that would be to the Empress, ~may she live forever~)

(all taken from freedomofmind(dot)com -- not linking because sometimes outside links make tumblr act weird about posts)

On the page, we witness the slow process of Leilwin née Egeanin pulling away and deprogramming from the Seanchan Empire, and then in this book, it feels like Mat has begun that process as well. And it feels like they started the same way -- because of a massive overreach by Tuon, the leader of the cult/Empire. Leilwin née Egeanin gets humiliated and punished by Tuon for no reason; just because Tuon felt like being a brat that day, and that moment of humiliation -- the re-naming and the forcing of the jewelry on her in a way that treated her like a slave -- was really what made Leilwin née Egeanin start to pull away from the other Seanchan and go into the path that eventually led to her being, however briefly, Egwene’s Warder.

For Mat, it really seems like whatever happened in that ‘not pleasant’ discussion that he and Tuon had after she berated him for, essentially, prioritizing Egwene’s privacy over Tuon’s desire to get information from him... that discussion (that we didn’t get to see) really seemed to lead to the more combative Mat who refused to back down and roll over for her. Mat still feels a level of protectiveness and affection for Tuon through the rest of the book but he stops letting her push him around and he starts acting like he cares about doing something about the slavery system in the Seanchan Empire again, which was a part of him that we lost at the start of CoT and I have hated so much that we lost in his character. But it slowly grows back over the course of the second half of AMoL.

Again, my big regret here is that the Mat & Rand reunion happened before Mat started his spine regrowth program. Even though Mat does start to push back on Tuon more here, he still never finished several of his character arcs that were set up over the course of the entire series: namely his own mistrust of Aes Sedai and his fear of Rand as a channeler. Both of those fears were things that he was actively working in the text and that he abruptly backtracked on when Tuon was introduced into his life (because being chill with channelers and being chill with people who enslave channelers is contradictory and so Jordan decided... to go with being chill with slavers). So those are two flapping loose ends for his character at the end of this series that never got to fully be addressed because the ‘romance’ was prioritized over Mat’s characterization.

Loial

Loial is looking for people to help him with accounts for his book and “Perrin ignored me and Mat cannot be found”.

Mat just completely disappearing from the Westlands side of things to go set up a fireworks show for Tuon (and asking Aludra to be the one to set it up, which just seems kinda mean, considering that the Seanchan pretty much completely eliminated the Illuminators) is just... frustrating. Apparently Mat visited the battlefield here “smiling and healthy” but then vanished. So, in theory, there’s an empty place here where Mat might have visited Rand and talked to Elayne & co one last time, since Rand is in the main healing tent on this battlefield.

Loial also notes how odd it is that Elayne and Min don’t seem to feel any urge to go in to hold Rand’s hand while he’s dying (Aviendha is getting her legs looked at). I know, Loial! They’re the worst fake-grievers who ever lived, I swear. If the whole point is to trick people into thinking Rand is dead, then it might be a good idea to... actually try to trick people?

Moghedien

In which Tuon’s people are already breaking the terms of the treaty by snatching up channelers from the battlefield at Merrilor. No hundred years of peace, Rand. I’m sorry.

Rand (& all those who say ‘goodbye’ to him, or who don’t)

Rand leaves the mountain, slipping on his own blood and carrying a body. Shayol Ghul is trying to close before he can leave and he only barely makes it out in time before the cave snaps shut behind him.

Moiraine tells Rand that he did well, and Nynaeve tries desperately to keep him alive, but eventually, and without ever waking back up, ‘Rand’ dies.

Elayne, Aviendha, and Min do the absolute worst job of playing grieving widows ever. Like, if Rand had actually died, I could understand this better. Because they might really be in shock. But they know he’s alive! And their whole job is to convince people that they absolutely believe that he’s dead! Just... pinch your arm until you start crying! This is literally the most suspicious way that they could have gone about things -- Nynaeve is already extremely suspicious of how they’re acting. Seriously, she’s gonna wiggle the truth out of them pretty much five seconds post-epilogue.

Birgitte comes to say goodbye to Elayne because she’s about to be reborn... and to mention that she’s tossed away the Horn of Valere. Sure hope that Elayne doesn’t regret that in ten years when they’re at war with the Seanchan!

Tam hopes that now his son can get some rest. My hope is that Rand will, you know, go and talk to his dad after he’s had a chance to recover from the stress and trauma of the Last Battle. Also, Tam... you’re gonna have grandkids. No thoughts on that, I see. Still no thoughts on that.

The funeral scene frustrates me to pieces.

Honestly, the most frustrating thing about the funeral scene is how easy it would have been to casually mention that Mat and Perrin were there? Like, that’s ONE SENTENCE. Just... the erasure of those years of friendship, because heterosexual marriage, in Jordan’s fictional world, meant that close male-male friendships just stopped existing. It’s depressing. That CADSUANE is considered to have more right to be at Rand’s funeral than his childhood friends who were also vital parts of the Last Battle. It’s insulting. And apparently Tam organized it? But he couldn’t be bothered to invite his kid’s best friends. Definitely a place where Sanderson should have done some editing of the original epilogue. One sentence is all that was needed.

*sigh*

I do think that Sanderson did try to set up why Mat wouldn’t have gone -- we have seen Mat, in several of his recent PoV scenes, swallowing his grief over losing people he loves and not letting it appear to affect him openly, even as it rocked him deeply, so Rand’s death would be another of those gut-punches that he would do his best to pretend didn’t happen. But, fuck... it just sucks that the friendship between Mat and Rand is such a sublimated thing in this last book, when Rand and Mat both got to much more openly deal with pretty much every other important relationship that they had (though I will note that Rand and Sulin never got a reunion either! Rude!).

Perrin didn’t get anything like that kind of subtextual explanation, but Perrin actually did visit Rand’s healing tent while he was dying, so at least he got that much. *shrugs*

Min thinking here about how the assembled people expect a ‘show’ of grief -- yes, they have all found it exceedingly odd that none of you appear to be grieving the man you said that you loved.

Rand wakes up in his new body, washed clean of the wounds that he’d taken over the course of the series. No more missing hand; no more agonizing pain in his side.

I have to admit “she left me some money” feels like a pretty anti-climatic way for Alivia to “help Rand die”? She wasn’t really involved in his “death” at all -- it was really Moiraine and Nynaeve who were the ones who ‘helped’ him die. I mean, any one of Min, Elayne, or Aviendha could have left him some money, since they all know he’s alive. I wonder if Jordan was originally thinking that Alivia would be the one joining Rand & Nynaeve for the cave journey, and it was Sanderson who decided that Moiraine would be more appropriate? Nothing distinctively Moiraine happens in that cave, not the way that Nynaeve was needed to be there to heal Alanna without using the Power. Like, this poor woman was harassed by Min for a handful of books because of that prophecy and all she did was leave Rand some money! Min better find her and apologize to her! (I already know that she won’t)

Haha, so confession: my brain edited out that new!Rand had lost saidin. My brain was just like “nope, of course he can still channel”. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of Rand not being a channeler at the end of the story, so that part I’m not thrilled about. He does have his newfound ability to use the threads of reality to basically channel anyway, though. Or at least I assume that’s what the pipe scene is about.

And then his thought, too, about ‘which’ of the women will follow him - yeah, you’re right that thinking that means you’ve gotten a swollen head! They all have responsibilities! Though since Rand leaves so abruptly here, there’s a lot that he doesn’t know, and the two things that most affect this specific question are: the extent of Aviendha’s injuries and the extent of Min’s involvement with the Seanchan. Literally zero of them is in a position to go chasing after Rand, even if they wanted to! Rand is the one who has no obligations and can easily visit them if he wants (well, maybe not ‘easily’ if Min does end up in the Empire).

But I can still remember, wow, what a relief it was that he was alive at the end, and free and unbound. The rest can be... adjusted by post-canon theories.

In terms of ‘things that aren’t covered but that we can probably assume’:

It does look like Elayne ended up with all three of the medallion copies -- the one Mellar used on her, the one that was on Birgitte’s body, and the third was with Lan and she probably reclaimed it (there’s nothing to indicate that Mat spoke with Lan and got it back), so the slaver empress never gets that medallion that Mat wanted to give her back in ToM. Tragic.

Despite Elayne and Tam speaking frequently over the course of AMoL, they somehow never speak about the whole grandkids issue. I feel like we can assume that this happens at some point, post-epilogue? Elayne and Aviendha both seem like they would go back to Caemlyn to rebuild. And Tam doesn’t really have a reason to go back to the Two Rivers at this point, so I can see him ending in Caemlyn too because: grandkids.

Technically, Min has slipped the Seanchan net at this point and could just not go back if she wants, so she can either go back to the Seanchan or she could go to Caemlyn with Elayne & Aviendha, but if she does stay away from the Seanchan, Tuon is going to try to get her back. Unless she was super-turned off by Min actually standing up to her in front of all the Blood and hastily makes Selucia her Truthspeaker again. That’s another possibility.

Ah, since we were told earlier that Melaine was about ready to give birth and Birgitte tells Elayne that she’s about to be reborn: Melaine might be her mom. I feel like Birgitte being reborn as Aiel sounds kinda fun.

I feel like Rand would not actually enjoy traveling all on his own after a while, given what we know about him, so he would probably end up visiting Caemlyn. And given how suspicious Nynaeve already is in the epilogue, I’m going to guess that she knows the truth by the time Rand goes to Caemlyn.

If Mat decides to leave the Seanchan behind at any point, he will probably also go to Caemlyn, and Mat and Rand can finally have a good reunion.

All in all, there are things about the ending that don’t thrill me but there are also things I really like. And having an ending at all helps in terms of sparking the imagination for fanfiction or meta or... an Amazon Prime television series. I don’t think we would have ever gotten the series if the books had stayed unfinished.

The epilogue checklist (and my theories about how it affected AMoL)

So, while reading AMoL, it felt like Sanderson took a couple of shortcuts in order to bruteforce the characters into reaching their epilogue endpoints, because there simply wasn’t enough time for it to happen naturally. This is my list of things that I believe got shortchanged due to “writing to the epilogue”:

Fortuona is pregnant in the epilogue: at the start of AMoL, Mat gets teleported to Ebou Dar without any kind of narrative or logistical explanation (contradicting his PoV chapter in the ending of ToM, where he was planning to return to Caemlyn, which would have thrust him directly into the main stories at play in the prologue & early chapters). I feel like part of it is that Sanderson really wanted to get that bun in the oven as quickly as possible.

“they expected something from the three of them; a show of some kind” : There’s just a wide acknowledgement in the epilogue that literally everyone knows that Rand has three girlfriends, so everyone just already knows in AMoL that Rand is in a relationship with three women now. No need for anyone to have emotional reactions to it, please! (not even Rand’s literal dad!) This one also ends up being weird because it seems to change from moment-to-moment whether or not the whole army knows that Rand has three girlfriends (if everyone knows already, why is Rand playing spy games with Elayne?).

Min is Fortuona’s pregnancy test: Min instantly respects ~Fortuona~ as an empress even while thinking that she doesn’t normally respect nobility. Bizarre, considering Min’s own history with the Seanchan from Falme.

Mat kills Fain: we got two super-quick glimpses of Fain earlier in the book to set up this moment but Mat had so much other stuff to do that Sanderson couldn’t really do more than say: yeah, Fain exists and he’s bad, lol.

Minor elements I think were affect by the epilogue:

Rand is still pondering over the idea of choosing between Elayne, Aviendha, or Min: we get Rand’s going “am I allowed to love three women? idk sounds fake” when he and Aviendha sleep together in chapter 4, which just was kinda silly. I think the epilogue is also the genesis of the vibe where Rand appears to consider “having sex with Min for months” to not be any kind of “choice” when it comes to the three women, but having a romantic interlude with Aviendha or Elayne would signal a choice -- because the epilogue acts like the situation between Rand and each of the three women is roughly equal, so “months of sex with Min” appears to hold the same emotional weight to Rand as “pining from afar with two nights of intense passion” does when he thinks of either Elayne or Aviendha.

Mat has no thoughts about any of the Westlands characters: I think that this is more of a subconscious effect -- as he focused more on the final book, I think Sanderson focused on the relationships highlighted in the all-important epilogue... and the only person that Mat cares about in the epilogue is himself *cough* I mean, Fortuona, of course, lol. In both TGS and in ToM, Mat’s deep affection for various Westlands characters was constantly on display, as shown in his own ‘loves lying to himself’ way. This gets curtailed in AMoL, especially in the early Ebou Dar chapters.

I think I’m going to let myself might let myself marinate over the various books before I post a final list of my personal ranking of the books.

One thing that I’ve really noticed is that, more than any other character, the quality of Mat’s storyline has a huge impact on my overall enjoyment of the book. In CoT & KoD, Elayne and Egwene (both of whom I love), got pretty good stories. But Mat’s story was so bad that it made it difficult for me to enjoy the good parts. But maybe some time just letting myself think about the series as a whole will balance out my thoughts. Does that make Mat my favorite character or just my most impactful character? idk. I feel like Elayne or Rand would more consistently hit the top of my favorites.

Overall top five characters throughout the entire series:

1. Elayne

2. Rand

3. Egwene

4. Mat (might be higher if not for CoT & KoD)

5. Nynaeve (might be higher if she didn’t basically disappear after she married Lan)

Then, moving on to the next favs, I think there’s more uncertainty there for me:

6. Verin, probably, but it could be Moiraine. Let’s say they tie.

7. Aviendha and Siuan can both go here. Both generally very good and interesting characters.

8. You know, I had a real turnaround with Gawyn in this reread of the books; I’m gonna put him here. He can share this spot with Leilwin née Egeanin.

9. Loial, probably. Needed more PoV; that would have been nice. I’ll put Faile here with him.

10. For more minor characters, I gotta give a shout-out to Narishma (favorite Asha’man), Sulin, Pevara during her Black Ajah Hunter phase, Olver is really good in his sections here in AMoL, Asmodean for being my favorite fail-Forsaken and Moghedien for sticking it out until the very end, Elaida honestly very fun PoV as far as villains go, Teslyn and Joline for being troopers and enduring Mat Cauthon at his very worst, my girl Berelain who always deserved better, the ‘Finn in general always lots of fun, Aludra and Juilin who always kept their integrity intact.

#wot #wheel of time #wot reread #wot book spoilers #wot spoilers #wot amol spoilers #wot a memory of light spoilers #mat cauthon #rand al'thor #elayne trakand #so it really feels like the 'main characters' of the actual last battle #were rand mat egwene and elayne #with everyone else being more of a secondary character #who helped the one of those main four storylines #posting this today because ao3 is being slightly iffy right now #so i'm going to post the next chapter of voice on thursday #and just give ao3 some time to work out whatever the connection issues are

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