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andsomemaniacgotridofthewheel · 6 months

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David Jenkins was not a Big Name Showrunner before OFMD. In fact, I had never heard of him before. I am not even sure what he did before OFMD, according to IMDB he wrote exactly one other show and it is one I have never even heard of before.

And he somehow got HBO to make his weird little show about gay pirates, and he got Taika Waititi to help with it, and while nobody was expecting anything of it - I mean come on guys, remember when OFMD dropped and everyone only gradually realised what it was - it became The Little Show That Could. With almost no advertising. No marketing. HBO did clearly did not expect this show to be anything, to make any real money or to go beyond one season.

But then it blew up.

Because David Jenkins was so insightful, he was so good, he brought so much fresh wind into a business where we usually can tell how the next three steps of how any show is going to go (and to be fair, a lot of us feared that Izzy's death in season 2 was coming, because all the signs fit), that we put him on a pedestal.

THE FUCKING PEDESTAL.

Yes he is brilliant. He has done stuff with OFMD that you never ever see somewhere else. He has understood that historical accuracy, as well as physics and geography, are merely backdrop for plot and characters. Completely irrelevant if you need them to be, but then suddenly important if you have a bit of story that won't work without. He understood that queer relationships deserve to be told, and when confronted with skeptic fans he learned about queerbaiting.

He took a lot of tropes and put them on their head. He structured his show like fanfic. He put thought into his stories instead of following the beaten track. He single-handedly raised the bar for every showrunner out there.

But it is still only his second show.

If he didn't shine so brightly during OFMD's first season, nobody would have expected so much of him.

And yes. He dropped the ball on Izzy.

I loved Izzy to pieces ever since season 1, I wanted to pin him to a board like a bug and study him and take him apart and put him in a blender and in situations, I loved to hate him and in season 2 I loved to love him. He is such a brilliant, complex character, so well written and so well played by Con O'Neill; the options for character analysis, relationship analysis, various interpretations of everything he has done, are simply limitless. 🤯 That is due to David Jenkins & Con O'Neill.

And David Jenkins, standing in the spotlight of all of our exaggerated expectations, decided it would have the greatest emotional impact if he killed him. He made him a symbol, for the end of The Golden Age of Piracy™, and he killed him.

He was right.

He was not original.

He fell for one of the very tropes he so successfully fought in season 1, and for the most part of season 2.

Procuring an emotional response by having a beloved character, who was just starting to embark on an exciting new journey, die tragically and emotionally, providing motivation for the remaining characters.

It was a cheap move.

It is not a Bury Your Gays. Everyone is queer on this show, you can't call something a Bury Your Gays if that would be true for every character death.

But Izzy was also old, and disabled, and he had survived a suicide attempt (that he was driven into, not chose for himself), and had just had an arc of growth and character development that could have gone on for such a long time after this. He had just learned to trust and be vulnerable and experience (gender)queer joy. God, there were so many places his character could have gone.

I loved Izzy as a character, I didn't relate much to him. But Your Mileage May Vary, and I am so, so sorry for everyone who did. You didn't deserve this.

But David Jenkins? Is still sooo much better than any generic bland showrunner that is going places in Hollywood. You want to boycott anything, boycott the big streaming services that don't have the guts to make their main characters queer, to think that "a bit of both" is inclusive or bold, and who drive out any creatives that object and try to sneak in inclusiveness. They are the enemy. They are systemic discrimination and injustice.

David Jenkins is just starting out. And he did so much better on his very first successful show than anyone who has been in the business for years. If anyone deserves a chance to prove that he can do better, it's him.

I'm sure he'll come to regret his decision. I'm sure he'll see where he went wrong, how he could have done better, and fix it in any show he might do after this. I, for one, would much rather see any show he is involved in than most of the crap that the AMPTP is putting out, now or in the future. He can only get better. And he did do a lot of things right. Never forget that. Because the majority of showrunners can't even do the minimum, and David Jenkins went above and beyond.

I think he deserves a little slack. If anyone in the streaming industry does, it's him.

It's the fucking pedestal that is the problem. It makes people who do good but are not perfect suddenly look worse than the most cowardice, opportunistic mediocre guy. But they are not and they deserve a leg up, or we are stuck with the worse option who gets support from all the wrong places. Don't fall for it.

#david jenkins #our flag means death #ofmd #izzy hands #ofmd izzy hands #con o'neill #nikku.txt

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wellofdean · 2 months

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Thinking about @luckshiptoshore and her liveblog of watching Supernatural and how much I love following it and how great it is to watch someone just fucking ENJOY the show...

And then, there were a couple of people in my Discord who love the fic, but have never watched the show, and folks in there were trying to convince them that it was worth watching (duh!) and that knowing the show by heart makes the fic so much better and like yes, again... DUH! And then I was suddenly overcome with such a feeling of ENVY for all the people who still have the chance to watch Supernatural for the first time already knowing what happens in the end.

I mean, I watched 14 years of it in real time (after downloading and bingeing season 1) and at least I was clever enough not to be in the fandom trenches that whole time, and just enjoyed it for what it was, but the end broke my brain, and changed the whole show for me.

Because, like, here's what happens in Supernatural by the end: Dean and Cas are in love. It was not subtle. Dean can't say it because he never has a single moment of not being up to his pretty, pretty eyeballs in dealing with the ongoing and constantly multiplying trauma of being the man his father raised him to be, and god's specialest boy to boot, but in the end, Cas finally does just fucking say it. Not only that, he waits until he can use it to save Dean, and show him once and for all in an incontrovertible, undeniable way exactly how deeply and truly loved and SEEN he is.

When you watch it knowing that, knowing that the the whole story is going to end in that stupid bunker dungeon with Cas telling Dean who he is and dying to save him, the whole thing just HITS DIFFERENT, because the Dean of season one with his outcast liminality and pretty, pretty lips is the poor, lonely, weird boy who will one day be loved like that by Castiel, an angel of the lord -- an impossible Eldritch being who learned what love and selfhood are from closely observing Dean.

The consensus amongst most Supernatural fans is that it is trashy and bad and that its all evil queerbaiting, but I would contend that it's actually deeply entertaining, culturally rich and interesting (yes, even its flaws and missteps), often impressively well-written and acted, never puts on any airs about being prestige television or high art, but still manages to be ultimately epic and somehow sublime, and that it's a queer story, about queer love saving the universe, and it is so, so worth watching.

Like, my brainworms are not 'they strung me along all that time and then never let them make out', by brainworms are 'they told us so many times and in so many big and small ways, and now I need to watch every bit of it again and again and again so I can finally REVEL IN IT (and, friends, that is the Supernatural rewatch journey: realising it was ALWAYS THERE). My brainworms aren't 'but does Dean reciprocate??' they are: 'of course he loves Cas, and of course Cas knows that Dean loves him, and the one thing Cas can't have? That's just his chance at happiness and a soft epilogue with and for Dean, because Cas, impossible, cosmic, Eldritch being Cas, traded his chance at happiness for his family's lives and sacrificed himself for love of his son and Dean, because that is what you do when you love someone, and what he has watched Dean never stop doing for even a minute of his beleaguered life.'

And then, Dean dies (yes, it's stupid), and he cannot just go to heaven, drink a beer and hang out, he needs to climb into his magic soul vehicle, hit the axis mundi and tear the universe up looking for his angel and his happy ending in The Winchesters? Fuck me.

And like, it's the most romantic, and devastating story I have ever been told? And I love it so much?

#supernatural #anti-trashnatural agenda #I am sometimes overwhelmed by how much I love that story #and dean #fuck I love dean #and castiel #angel of the lord

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therainscene · 1 year

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It’s funny that Bylers are so often accused of being delusional, because I was at my most delusional when I was anti-Byler.

I spent most of S4 refusing to acknowledge that Will had romantic feelings for Mike, despite knowing damn well what all that love triangle imagery and sad gay pining was implying. I convinced myself it was just bros before hoes drama; that perhaps Will wanted to come out to his best friend but felt nervous after six months of radio silence following “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”

The van scene forced me to accept that he really was in love, and it pissed me off because what was even the point of making him fall for a straight boy?

Mike’s bizarre “no homo” behaviour was clearly a symptom of growing up in a conservative 80s household, and witnessing Will’s sacrificial act of love in the van was the shitty lesson he needed to get over his homophobia.

I saw a typical straight male protagonist in an 80s coming-of-age film getting to coast his way to self-actualization on the back of queer suffering; a cruel and homophobic trope I thought we’d moved past by the year 2022.

But then the NINA reunion scene rolled around--

--and I immediately picked up on the heavy parallels between Mike and Will in how they greeted El. The realization hit me like a tonne of bricks: Mike feels the same way about her as Will does.

I thought, “wait, does this mean I was wrong about...? Oh my god. No way.

No fucking way.

Will was in love with El this whole time?? What the fuck, he’s been gay since S1 and she’s his sister this is BULLSHIT I will personally strangle the Duffers--”

Heteronormativity is a hell of a drug, kids.

Let this be a lesson to those of you who think media illiteracy is to blame for Byler denial -- how well someone understands the mechanics of storytelling is irrelevant if they insist on treating Mike’s supposed heterosexuality as an axiom instead of an evidence-based conclusion. The issue lies with bias, not literacy.

I was stubbornly anti-Byler because I knew I’d immediately fall in love with this ship if I allowed myself to have hope it could be canon, and the general state of queer rep in mainstream media meant I was all but guaranteed to get hurt if I was so stupid as to have hope. But in my desperation to cling to the “safe” heteronormative outcome, I only ended up hurting myself with my own silly assumptions.

We’ve seen both canonically gay characters in the show make exactly this mistake, needlessly hurting themselves with their silly but self-defensive assumptions about their love interests.

Stranger Things absolutely nails its depiction of the subtler ways internalized homophobia can manifest -- Will may feel like a mistake and be prone to beating himself up, but he isn’t some pitiful self-loathing queer who wishes he was straight, either. He’s just so crushed by heteronormativity that he accepts it as an inescapable fact of life and lets it guide his beliefs and actions.

Don’t get me wrong: Will, like Robin, is very sensible for being cautious in such a horrifically bigoted environment -- trying to openly defy that level of homophobia by yourself, especially when you’re young, is a bad idea.

But unlike Robin, he clearly struggles to accept that he has the right to chase his same-sex love interest. He's no longer simply exercising caution, but conforming to homophobic standards -- much in the same way I thought I was sensibly refusing to be queerbaited, when really I was just agreeing with the heteronormative status quo.

I realize now that this is the real reason Will was written into a homophobic 80s trope: not to teach Mike an outdated lesson in acceptance, but to maneuver Will into position for the lesson he’s going to learn in S5 about resisting conformity.

Will needs to learn that castrating himself to make straight people comfortable is a bad idea too. Not only is that a miserable way to live his life, but what sort of world is he leaving for the next generation of queer kids if he never questions these homophobic standards?

It’s just the cycle of abuse scaled up to the societal level.

This is what gives me confidence in Byler endgame. Queerness isn’t just an incidental element of Will’s personal arc, but suffuses the show to its very core -- it’s in its themes, its allegory, its characters.

So Will getting the boy isn’t just nice fan-service for Byler shippers, but a necessary ending if the show’s most important lesson is to land:

That it’s rewarding to make the difficult choice of standing up to bigotry in the face of forced conformity. Of choosing love.

Could it be the case that I was right the first time, and Stranger Things is going to turn out to be yet another heteronormative mainstream show that doesn’t commit to its own themes? Sure, maybe. But that wouldn’t invalidate the valuable lessons this show has already -- and apparently accidentally lol -- taught me.

Anyone who calls us deluded for hoping a mainstream show is going to have a gay pairing as its main couple just doesn’t realize -- or doesn’t care -- that they’re contributing to the very problem they’re describing.

#stranger things #byler #will byers #mike wheeler #robin buckley #my analysis

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sitron-sunni · 21 days

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I watched the new episode of 9-1-1

a personal essay on queerbaiting (sorta)

I watched the new episode of 9-1-1, and immediately burst into tears as the credits started rolling.

Then I rewound the last six minutes, and watched the scene again, pausing to rewind the kiss. Again. And again. And again.

We got a kiss. I didn’t know we were getting a kiss. I sorta knew we were getting bi Buck, but I didn’t know we were getting a kiss. After last week’s episode, a lot of people were 100% convinced we were getting bi Buck. I saw their reactions before I watched that episode, too, and I was so confused once I finished it. Had we seen the same episode? That guy, Tommy, Buck’s so-called bisexual awakening-guy, was barely in there. He had about two memorable lines, and then he was in the background of a different shot, where he received a job-well-done slap on the shoulder from Buckley. That last one’s the one people were focusing on online. Look at the way this is framed, look at how he’s positioned, between Buck and Eddie. This is foreshadowing how he’s gonna get between them. Buck and Tommy is gonna be the gateway into buddie. They’re actually gonna do buddie, why else would they introduce a relationship between Buck and Tommy?

Reader, I’ll keep it straight with you. I did not believe them. After a while I gathered a lot of people already knew the name of the next episode; Buck, Bothered and Bewildered. They’d seen some stills, they knew there would be conflict and jealousy within that trio. They were putting it all together with comments and hints dropped by the actors. All those things added up, and it did paint a far more convincing picture. And I thought it was fun! I reblogged a few posts about it, I think, or at least I liked some. But the fact remains: I did not believe them. I thought, oh, imagine how cool it would be if they actually went there. I thought, yeah, realistically it would make sense to bring in a third person if they were actually gonna do it. That way they could test the waters, gauge audience response, and it could work as a catalyst for the relationship after so long. But mostly I thought Okay, so they’re gonna bring in Buck’s fear of not being enough for the people he loves again, this time through his friendship with Eddie, and we’re gonna get some sort of final resolution for that. Like, a big moment of catharsis. Or something along those lines, anyway. It just seemed to me like the most realistic thing that could happen. I mean, the idea of canon buddie was nice, of course it was! The queerbait is why I started watching the show in the first place: I wanted a good queerbait! But ultimately, a ship like that going canon was completely unrealistic. I speak from experience, after all.

Maybe it would’ve been different if I was younger. I remember being in fandoms when I was a teen. I remember reading theories, watching youtube-videos with “proof” that this or that was real, that it was gonna go canon. I remember getting my hopes up, thinking Oh my god what if they’re actually gonna do it!? for shows and pairings that, in hindsight, were completely unrealistic. Maybe that’s why I, even with fairly good evidence in front of me, didn’t actually get my hopes up this time. Because why be that stupid? Why invest emotionally like that? Why not just enjoy what we actually had instead, and then get anything extra from fanworks? Haven’t we learned by now?

I woke up this morning and opened tumblr, and I read half a sentence about how we actually have bisexual Buck confirmed canon now, before I quickly closed the app to avoid too detailed spoilers. Oh my god they were right! I can’t wait to watch the episode, I thought happily, and went on with my day. I opened the app again a few hours later, and scrolled for a few minutes, until I saw a brief glimpse of one, maybe one and a half gifs. Bucks face, Tommy’s face. Warm orange-y yellow lighting, Buck’s loft, you still owe me a beer. Close the app, move on. There were other posts throughout the day, more glimpses, all along the same lines as the first one. The last one came late in the evening, this time on twitter. Just the word in all caps; ANNOUNCEMENT, and then Bucks face and a bisexual pride flag.

And then finally, finally, after I’d brushed my teeth and gotten into bed, I was alone with my laptop, and I could watch the episode. The hype had built up, I was so excited to finally watch it. I was internally vibrating just a little bit. I was giggly, I was grinning widely, I was making comments to myself out loud, and laughing. I said oh my god, they’re really laying it on thick. I remember watching that scene for the first time and thinking how Tommy really looked so nervous at some points. That last one I found interesting. I really liked the actor’s portrayal; His facial expressions were quite subtle, and I thought he captured that nervous feeling so well. Maybe I took such notice of it because, well, I wasn’t quite expecting it.

I wasn’t expecting nervousness in an interaction between Buck and Tommy, because I still wasn’t actually expecting anything. At least I don’t think I was. Even with everything I’d seen online. Even as I was watching the show, I convinced myself. Those words, you still owe me a beer, they’ve misinterpreted them. They think it’s an invitation to a date because Buck’s jealousy in this episode is making it more plausible than ever before. Sure, the show’s leaning into it this time, but they’re gonna pull the rug out next episode. No, of course it wasn’t an invite to a date, what show were you watching, are you delusional? It’s just gonna be one week of people speculating and theorizing and building it up, and then the show’s gonna resolve it with some no-homo followed by a nice new buddie moment. The buzz will die down, and things will go back to normal.

And then the kiss happened. And then I burst into tears.

And now I think, oh my god isn’t it wild that they’re introducing a new romantic relationship for one of the main characters, and for the entire lead-up to the relationship, both Buck and Tommy are entirely focused on Eddie? Like, they’re just making everything about a third person! Imagine if they did this for anybody else! and, oh my god Tommy’s gonna break up with Buck because Buck’s basically already dating Eddie or something, isn’t he? and, oh my god it’s gonna be glorious! and, oh my god I can’t wait!

And I’m also thinking, I was wrong, and you were right. And I’m so happy I could cry.

TL;DR: If you and I share sterek, or destiel, or god knows what other similarly-shaped trauma, 9-1-1 might heal ya.

#911 abc #911 spoilers #buddie #bucktommy #911 meta #Look it's 3:45 in the morning and english isn't my first language #so this might just be a big pile of nothing #but i just had to get it down because i felt it so deeply #(also just for the record- i don't think 911 or buddie has ever ACTUALLY been queerbait #that was just my assumption before i started watching the show)#anyways.#happy bisexual buck day to all those who celebrate #goodnight<3

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vole-mon-amour · 11 months

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3x11, part 2, RJK edition.

oh my god, just make out already, you two. Jamie is so fucking sad, who fucking hurt him, I wanna hurt them back.

Jamie is on the verge of tears, can't Roy fucking see it??? LOOK INTO HIS EYES AND SEE IT.

That is probably the most mature and concerned reaction I've ever seen from Roy towards Jamie. Like when he hugged him in s2, it was great. But here he's actually trying to TALK about it. He's genuinely concerned and interested in what's going on.

EMMY WINNER PHIL DUNSTER WHEN?????? Jfc. Just hug the boy, Roy.

;_____; Sharing trauma aka I've been thrown into Sunflowers and Amsterdam again. BEST FRIENDS.

Ok. This is ok. I'm okay. There was a glimpse where the kiss could've happened and Jamie could've continued wailing and it would WORK. Roy wouldn't even say a thing bc Jamie is a mess and it might now mean anything, and if it did, they can talk about it later.

Anyway. Jamie going in for a hug FIRST bc he trust Roy and he feels safe around him and he feels okay about physical intimacy and being vulnerable with him now. I wanted my hug & I guess this is the closest I can get to that one in 2x06. And with Jamie crying again. Ohhh my god.

The poor boy needs a vacation with both Roy and Keeley (and a lot of sex and love from them). I'd say RoyJamie only, but it's more likely at this point that ot3 happens instead of otp.

Well, it's close to Will walking in on Roy and Jamie kissing. Almost.

I'm fucking staying here. I don't need anyone else. I'm staying here and going down with this ship. Jamie full on can do whatever he wants at this moment & Roy would probably allow him. The hands interlinked on Roy's back, Jamie's head going from Roy's shoulder into the crook of Roy's neck. They really are best friends. Jamie feels so comfortable and safe with him. Putty in his hands, huh?

And I can't fucking keep quiet about Phil pulling this off. Like... MY GOODNESS, GIVE HIM ALL THE FUCKING AWARDS. It makes me sad but at the same time I can't stop laughing, and I'm sure this was the intention. Bc this dramatic wailing is truly something.

At the same time, "I can't sleep, and I can't eat" is a serious sign of depression or at least a serious burnout. Get Jamie a therapist and some quality time break from all the stress.

"Jamie is a mess & I gotta help him."

Keeley is so excited she gets to help Roy with Jamie. This is very ot3 of you. I gotta say though, Roy has to learn how to talk and communicate. It's all fun and all, the idea of when there's a miscommunication or Roy unable to go to emotional depths, but it's really important. In the previous ep he watched Jamie and came up with the right words for Keeley. In here he went to Keeley so she could help him with Jamie. I see a pattern, but I'd love Roy to act on it. Saw Keeley maybe, came up with the right words, knew how to act with Jamie, went back to help.

But then I expect both of them to go back to Jamie and help, so also very ot3 of them.

Jamie and his rings. Jamie being so many fans fav player. Jesus, I love this kid so. fucking. much. Get him into therapy again, please.

"How's he doing?" "Fucking hell." "I'll talk to him."

For a show that gives so many queer references, it would be weird if they were queerbaiting us tbh. It's possible, but it's still weird, especially with so many queer characters.

For the reference.

IF NOT OT3, THEN WHY THIS. They're gonna drive me insane.

#natiswatching #ted lasso #roy x jamie #roy x jamie x keeley

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centaurianthropology · 2 years

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What ‘Our Flag Means Death’ Did for this Older Queer Fan

I’ve been trying to articulate what feels special about ‘Our Flag Means Death’ to me for a while. I’ve been active in fandoms since the ‘90s, back when webrings were your best bet for good fan content. I have seen a lot of shows come and go. And I got very used to my fandom experience going something like this: find a new show or movie or book or other thing, write a lot of meta about character motivation and plot structure and costume choices, and often find a pairing I found appealing. The chemistry was usually good, with variations on antagonistic, friendly, or other chemistry. And if I was lucky, the show would drop a few hints that there was something there. You learned very quickly to be grateful for scraps, and to never expect too much. There was never, NEVER an expectation that a queer pairing would be ‘endgame’, or would ever be manifested in anything more than a few lingering glances and the actors and maybe a writer or two being all for the relationship EXCEPT.

Except the producers, the studios, the audience. It would never be accepted. So it was confined to glances. And that I understood. I could appreciate that. I knew that, if they could, those writers and those actors would have gone there, but gay marriage being legalized seemed like an impossibility, queer cinema was treated as niche or arthouse, and the only queer characters allowed on network shows had to be sidekicks who never had sex.

After that came the era of the queerbait. Showrunners were more aware of fandom in the mid-2000s, and really wanted that sweet sweet audience retention. So some shows started to lean into the possibilities of queer relationships. They played up that things might happen between characters on screen. It was no longer “we want to, but the network/producer won’t let us”; it was “maybe there is something there! *wink* *wink*”, only to turn around and inevitably claim that the audience misinterpreted, that there was nothing there and never had been. It was somehow less than what we had in the ‘90s, because then at least we knew we were never getting anything, we knew that the writers had pushed something as hard as they could and they felt as shitty as we did that it wasn’t going to happen. This was, well, bait.

And yet I don’t really think I understood that feeling of being baited, because I never got the canon queer ship on screen. Whenever I saw the bait, as a fan who had been around and seen the talks in the ‘90s about queer rep on network TV, I knew that it was bait. I knew that they would never follow through because everyone was convinced that two men kissing would end their television show. So no matter how much they teased the audience, I knew it was lies, and I didn’t feel like it hit me as hard. I told myself it didn’t hurt.

Now we’re in a new era where queer relationships are directly confirmed by creators, but there’s always still this halting before the final hurdle. “These two men are in love,” they’ll say, but then turn around and say, “but it’s so elevated and pure and perfect that they would never sully it by smashing their faces together. So they’re definitely in love guys! Just don’t expect them ever to show that physically.” Because gay love is now in vogue, but gay kissing and God forbid gay sex are still that bridge too far. Even shows with great queer rep that aren’t explicitly billed as queer romances will stop before the kiss.

And this doesn’t feel like asexual rep or an embracing of queerplatonic relationships, because it definitely doesn’t feel like they deliberately set out to write that. No, it always feels like they wanted to have their cake and eat it. They want the queer fans that will come to see a queer relationship, but they don’t want to lose those fans that they are still convinced will stop watching when two mens’ lips touch (it’s different for women, because straight men love lesbians, and so they get a pass for ogling reasons, which ... is a whole different story, and a whole different long post, frankly).

And then comes David fucking Jenkins, who seems like an impossibility. He is an apparently straight white cis man in his forties. He is the exact sort of demographic that you would never expect to deliver a meaningful queer story, or a story with explicitly anti-racist or anti-colonialist beats. On first glance, he’s every other showrunner who’s tried to pull a fast one on queer audiences before.

But as this article shows, there was something different ticking away in his head. He watched Star Wars and came away with the impression that Finn and Poe were the couple with chemistry. He saw how fans treated Kelly Marie Tran and John Boyega and wanted to do better. He’s almost blissfully unaware of the long history of queer fans getting ignored, then baited, then told that gay sex or kissing would ‘lessen’ such a wonderful relationship.

So he set out to write a queer sitcom about pirates. And since it was a romcom, of course the two leads were going to kiss, because that was the point of a romcom. That’s what the audience signed up for, and to turn around and give some bullshit line about how their mouths touching would lessen what they had was inherently ridiculous. A romcom has specific beats, sure. They were inevitably going to be separated by misunderstanding, but there was also an agreement with the audience that it wouldn’t be forever.

And the kiss sealed that deal. It showed that he had none of those weird hang-ups or beliefs that if he showed two men kissing, his show would be over. And you know what? He was more right than he could have ever imagined. What he was doing was, in his head, simply following through with the agreement established by all romcoms. It wasn’t remarkable or revolutionary. It wasn’t until he was surprised that more people weren’t believing it was a romcom by the moonlit scene in episode 5 that he started to understand something was happening that he hadn’t been privy to before. I think it was only after that that David Jenkins did a deep dive on queerbaiting, and realized how pervasive it was, how even the queer audiences weren’t willing to believe what was obvious on screen. That, in the words of Lucius: “This is happening.”

And they didn’t believe it until the kiss, because that’s always the line that shows aren’t willing to cross. When he stepped over that boundary he didn’t even know existed, he had an audience ready to go to war for him. Because he had delivered. There was no waffling, no bullshit. He just delivered. And after that, well ...

The audience flocked to him. They campaigned, made cakes and Twitter storms and were unrelenting. They were a groundswell for a show that had gotten no advertising, no buzz, no press before its airing. It’s clear that HBO Max had the same old attitude that he had crossed the line with that kiss, and that the show would flop. But it was the opposite, and instead of tanking his show, it got him a renewal.

And I myself felt such a lightness in my heart after seeing that. Even with the darker end the season had, I knew that this was a romcom, that our lovers would be reunited, get over their miscommunications, and would be together in a meaningful way. David Jenkins had the idea, and then he filled his writers room with people to bring that idea to life, to push back and buy in. Queer people, people of color, people of different cultures. This is the move of a man who has a dream to write a diverse, queer story, and knows that he has a good idea for it, but also knows that he needs people who have lived those lives to help him avoid stumbling blocks that he never could have seen.

Seeing this leads to the extraordinary result of writing that is well aware of how queer characters and characters of color have been treated by the media, and how queer fans and fans of color have been treated too. It also led to him going on his own journey of discovering, realizing why people reacted the way they did, why they were hesitant to believe he would deliver, and why they would fight so hard for his show when they did. It was effervescent, like drinking champagne, to finally just ... have this. For it to happen both with the writers knowing it was something special, and the showrunner not understanding why it wasn’t always so easy just to deliver these stories. Just to see the chemistry and go for it. Just to treat characters with respect and still let them be silly and ridiculous. To have an entire world that feels queer friendly, beyond the queerness of the lead characters.

It only really hit me recently, when I heard that tired old excuse of “they love one another, but kissing or sex would cheapen that relationship, so they’re in love, but not in a sexual way”, and I was finally sick of it. Because David Jenkins and his silly gay pirate show showed that it’s bullshit. He showed that your audience booms when you finally set aside the fear of two men kissing, and just pay off the relationship. When you embrace queerness not just in words, but in deeds. It took OFMD to finally rip those tolerant blinders off me and for me to think, “Oh, just say that you don’t want to show two men kissing because you think whatever audience you have will think it’s gross.” Just say it. Just be honest instead of trying to parade this as a better form of queer representation. I wouldn’t like you any more, but I would respect the honesty.

Finally getting what I always secretly wanted from a show--but would never admit that I wanted because I knew I would always be disappointed--has taken away my ability to tolerate whatever excuse showrunners trot out for not taking that final step. OFMD opened my eyes. It woke me up to realizing that I had spent twenty years pretending I wasn’t hurt when a show teased a relationship they never intended to pay off. I haven’t felt so giddy about a show in years, and I have *never* felt so giddy about a queer genre show (because I’ve never seen one before that delivered so well on both being queer and on being genre)! This was not a show billed as a romance, but a show about pirates, but it delivered such a lovely romance and such a lot of silly pirates!

So thank you, David Jenkins. As you went on your journey of discovery about queerbaiting and how it made you feel, I have been on a similar journey. And you helped me get there. You and your silly gay pirate show.

#Our Flag Means Death #David Jenkins #whoof #this was a long one #and maybe not as coherent as some of my meta #but I wanted to try to put my thoughts in order regarding what this show means to me as an older queer fan #and what it did for me in regards to my own relationships with how television has historically treated queer pairings an queer fans #anyway #thank you David Jenkins #you will likely never read this #but you helped me a lot with your show

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darkacademiaarchivist · 1 year

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the magnus archives sure is a tragedy... (let's talk about MAG 117 - Testament...)

We get so much about the characters and also PARALELLES!!!!

I think Basira is the same. She’s coming along to back up Daisy, or so she says. I don’t quite get those two. I suppose what they’ve done, seeing what they’ve seen… it’s a hell of a bond. The sort of thing I’ve mostly done alone. Still, it does sometimes make it hard to fully trust them…

honestly i like that we don't 100% know what Daisy and Basiras relationship is, people are complicated and i love seeing this (plus if you have more canon queer characters it doesn't feel like queerbaiting like in some other pieces of media sometimes)

You, you know what, no. I’m, I’m done with that. No more paranoia. It’s almost got me killed more than once, and Georgie was right. If I am, uh, slipping then I need people I can trust. And I… I don’t think that can happen naturally for me an-anymore, so I’m making a decision. I trust them. All of them.

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!!!! he's realizing that he can't do it alone!! I'm glad that he's learning, i think everything would have ended a lot worse if he'd kept all to himself (also does Jon now know that Martin has a crush on him now......?)

I love all we learn about Basira here, how she didn't want to be police anymore and all that

I don’t, I don’t really know why I’m here. I mean, I know how I got here. All the decisions I made, until suddenly: yep, this is my life! But not the why. Not really. Does that make sense?

did someone pull some strings here? hmmmm. i really should do something for an Archivist!Basira AU...

How the hell did I end up having to save the world?

a few episodes ago Jon said the waiting is the worst and somoeone pointed out that he's a man of action and here Melanie says:

Hope isn’t really good for anything it’s always been action with me. It’s, it’s been doing things that helps. I’ve never really seen the point of hope.

PARALLELES!!!!!! God all the anger she holds in, she'd definetely get soldier in the Soldier, Poet, King quiz.... please, she deserves to heal

Good luck, Jon. I do hope you win. But I also hope it hurts.

martin.............

I, I’m scared, I guess. – no, wait. No, no, I mean, aww, I don’t want that to be my last message, the thing that defines me. “Martin Blackwood, he was always scared, then he died. The end.” I don’t want that.

screaming crying

I need him to be okay

I’ve always been running, always hiding, caught in someone else’s trap, but, but now it’s my trap, and, well, I think it’ll work. I know, I know it’s not exactly intricate, but it felt good leaving my own little web. Oh, oh, Christ, I hope John doesn’t actually listen to these. “Good lord, is Martin becoming some sort of spider person?” No, John, it’s an expression, chill out!

rip martin blackwood, you would have loved mastermind by taylor swift

Tim.... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

@a-mag-a-day

#i'm writing this post instead of studying #i'm a lost cause lmao #anyway back to literature theory #a mag a day #tma #the magnus archives #tma relisten #tma s3 #jonathan sims #martin blackwood #basira hussain #tim stoker #melanie king #my post

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fishshit · 1 year

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i truly think the "a good show makes you crawl on the floor, cry and suffer" mentality tumblr (2010-2016) created is STILL affecting our perception on what is a blorbo or not.

so first of all, let's look at the urban dictionary definition of blorbo:

NOWHERE on this page is saying a blorbo should be:

toxic

miserable

chaotic

dumbass

you should have a love-hate relationship with them

i'm definitely NOT saying that a blorbo shouldn't be all those things, but these are not necessary for a character to be a blorbo. [Miette (from real life) is a perfect example of this. she's our beloved blorbo and yet she's strong, a genius and non-toxic.]

now, i know most of yall know why i'm writing this. we all are aware of the active warzone tumblr has got going on. now to get to my point,

i know voltron fandom went apeshit over ships, created langst tags and stuff. (tbh i've learned all of these recently) but let's sit and think why. i've mentioned in one of my posts or rbs that the only thing i vividly remember about voltron is the queerbaiting and i know for a fact that queerbaiting was one of the biggest factors of these... actions. now when we look at yoi, we see a rather more peaceful fandom. is it because the show had a weaker chokehold on its fans? absolutely not.

i can assure you if yoi queerbaited us the way voltron did, there would be a chaos. and i'm not saying it in the way fans going crazy is funny or shit, no. i'm saying this as in real life chaos, like fans would threaten the creators or create their own reality. they WOULD remake yoi. there aren't any ship wars because victuuri (victor nikiforov x yuuri katsuki) is the ultimate ship, like there aren't any other possible options. nearly every single fan fell straight for victuuri. now think about how many fans are there and how many of them ships victuuri like they're praying to god itself. victuuri made me cry for DAYS, the plottwist was absolutely brilliant and no, none of these emotions were negative but god knows no show on earth made me feel the way yoi did. i'm not saying yoi is the best show ever or it's flawless. we all know our shows (blorbos are from) are generally not the best medias ever. but the way me and so many other fans bonded with this show, these 2 characters (or maybe 3, i don't like yurio that much) and that ship is indescribable. after watching yoi, i've realised that your favourite show doesn't necessarly need to make you feel like you've been stabbed in the chest bazillion times and suffer. no, it also can make you feel like you're on the verge of exploding with the white and shining happiness and love. i'm also pretty sure that's what most of the yoi fans feel, and also sure that no other show would make me feel the same way i felt while watching yoi.

yuuri katsuki, the man who made me feel all those things along with his husband victor nikiforov, is:

a canon bi king who had a crush on probably the prettiest girl in his childhood town and then got engaged to his lifelong idol (also probably the prettiest man in figure skating and,, the world)

anxious disaster (like, it's canon that he has anxiety and he was quite relatable and important for the fans with anxiety) who manages to say the MOST ridiculous stuff and yet tries his best to communicate with people about his needs and weaknesses

world's one of the best skater yet he's unaware how much of an pride he is for his country, fans and family and how good he is. STILL breaks his idols (literal legend of the figure skating) score

made irl queer people cry over him and figure skaters fall for him

got drunk af on the banquet of the gpf which he lost (BECAUSE HIS DOG DIED) and drank over 16 flutes of champagne AND DID POLEDANCE WITH THE SLUTTIEST MAN EVER, DANCED WITH HIS IDOL, WON A BREAKDANCE COMPETITION WITH HIS SOON-TO-BE RIVAL AND THEN DRY HUMPED HIS IDOL WHILE ASKING HIM TO BE HIS COACH

my point is, just because a character doesn't go through hell or make you feel like shit doesn't mean that he isn't a blorbo. you still can think that lance is more of a blorbo, good for you! but i really don't think we need fantasy to feel good.

#this is more than blorbo propaganda tbh #i see people defending lance just because fandom was going through hell #and #idk really #yes maybe yoi fans were calmer compared to voltron fans #but it doesn't mean we didn't bond with yoi as much as voltron fans did with voltron #anyways 2012-2016 tumblr was shit lmao #yuri on ice #yuuri katsuki #voltron #lance #idk his last name lmao #blorbo #OH AND #yuurisweep ♡

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boopasnoops · 4 months

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Screaming for people to learn what "queerbaiting" means please for the love of god I can't stand this shit anymore

#text post

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bylercore69 · 2 years

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The Milkvan Breakup Problem

There's still some shit that just doesn't sit right with me:

If Byler is happening next season, then micellar water needs to break up right? Ok, so it would have been way more natural to do that in st4: it would confirm that El didn't believe Mike's bullshit speech, that she's on the road to independence, that she is starting an arc of learning to see her usefulness for being who she is and loving her friends, not just for her powers.

But no, now they have to break up next season, and how tf are they gonna do that? If there's a 2 year time jump? Do you really mean to tell me that the relationship lasted two more years like that? Even though El knows? I don't see her putting up with that shit. So they can't break up at the beginning. What about in the middle? That's so exhausting tho because that means that they resolved or at least shoved off this problem for two years and now it either resurfaces, another issue comes up, or both and then that is what finally gets them to break up. Then they're broken up and there really isn't enough time for Byler to happen without it seeming like Mike is homie hopping. Or they could start out the season and just say "Oh we kind of drifted apart" or "we broke up two years ago" and not actually show it. I don't think I even need to explain why that would suck ass.

Now the most likely solution is a flashback. They'll either start out s5 exactly where s4 left off and then do the time jump or start out s5 two years later and flash back to the break up. I don't mind this, but I don't like it either. I think it doesn't pay enough respect to Mike & El's relationship. Sure, maybe their romantic relationship was shit, but they are really great friends who love each other so much, so I think they deserve a patient, emotional, real-time break-up and time for both of them to process it.

The best way I can think of for them to do this was for Mike & El to break up at the end of season 4. That was simply the only time for it. But they put it off because they wanted to continue their little queerbait game: keep the Michelle Pfeiffers engaged and the bylers hopeful. God forbid Byler nation gets an obvious win. They made this decision based on marketing, not what's good for the story. So just remember, Byler nation: even if Byler is endgame, the Duffers are not innocent. They still queerbaited us because they are reaping the financial benefits of leaving the door open when it should have been closed from a narrative standpoint.

And now, you're not going to like what I think they should do: I think Mike has to cheat on El. All the other options are so shit, but at least this one is dramatic and I think El can forgive him. I still think it's unbelievable that the two of them would remain in this loveless, limbo of a relationship, but if for some reason the Duffers don't break them up immediately somehow, Mike has to feel trapped in the relationship but be unable to resist Will anyway. And it's not fair to Will or El, but when Mike is forced to admit his feelings and make amends, truly and genuinely this time, he will finally complete his arc and his un-asshole-ification.

Edit: My last paragraph may have been a bit dramatic: I really really dont want that to happen. But even if I did, I shouldn’t have used the word “cheat” when I really mean “overlap in his feelings” like he realizes his feelings for Will and maybe even has some sort of conversation with Will before the break up. I just think it’s kind of sad to tac it onto the beginning of s5. It should be woven into the rest of s5 somehow, but ig they had too many production problems so this is just how it has to be

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konnfusion · 9 months

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I've said it before but my god, I'm taking "queerbaiting" away from the internet until people learn what its proper definition is again.

being disappointed that two queer characters don't end up together doesn't mean it's "queerbaiting". we can discuss factors and criticisms that might've prevented the network/writers from allowing the characters to have a happy ending together, but if both characters are queer and say they love each other (even if they aren't endgame), it cannot, by definition, be "queerbaiting".

#character: if I was going to be with anyone i'd be with you but i can't be with you like that and then lose you bc i lose everything #some people: is this queerbaiting?#go back to your roots we've been queerbaited by the cw for decades we know what it looks like #kelsey rambles #also the character in question has said this to people of multiple genders while they themself have presented as multiple genders so like??

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jemmaredgravewhore · 1 year

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i have a lot of feelings abt episode 7 so i’m gonna try and get them out n it’ll probably just be a heap of words but i need to get it out so here goes

i rly saw myself onscreen in a way i never have before. there’s been gay stories, sure. but a girl. my age (near enough). in love w her best friend. THE LONGING LOOKS GOOD GOD I THOUGHT I WAS WATCHING MYSELF AT POINTS

but i still doubted that it would be acknowledged or canonised or whatever. i saw myself on screen and still didn’t believe that the writers would’ve made it canon. the queerbait stays with you. i feel like i’m being rly overdramatic or something by saying that. it’s like now by seeing something where the gay is just allowed to be there it’s looking back thru those old shows i used to enjoy and going- why wasn’t it?

it feels like i’ve been taunted with this thing one too many times and now when it actually is happening i can’t quite believe that the writers have gone there.

same w ofmd honestly like i just can’t quite believe that i’m only just learning that it doesn’t need to be shyed away from it’s not embarrassing to expect shows to be queer when they’re not - we’re not being stupid or näive for seeing the queer subtext when IT IS THERE. IT DOES FUCKING EXIST

i feel like queerbaiting is talked about so often that the true meaning of it has kinda been lost but it is PROPERLY FUCKED UP and is basically just gaslighting a big group of ppl like haha u thought we’d actually give u rep eww ur so silly like where would u even get that idea from

AND NOW THESE SHOWS HAVE GONE ‘yeah see all that stuff- you were right. it does represent you. you weren’t being infantile for wanting that representation. you thought it seemed queer because it was. and look- we’ve actually followed through. you’re not stupid for believing what you saw and felt. and here u are. ITS GAY’

#GOD GOD GOD IDK IF ANYONE HAS READ THAT OR IF IT MEANS NEARLY AS MUCH TO ANYONE ELSE #BUT IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY TO BE ABLE TO HAVE GOT HERE #TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT YES THAT IS ME I CAN SEE MYSELF PROPERLY REPRESENTED AND NOT BE VEIWED AS SILLY AND IMMATURE #the last of us #ofmd #ellie x riley #gentlebeard #personal tag

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goongiveusnothing · 2 years

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At this point I just wonder what Harry is thinking. He must be reeling from what's going on. The last time I saw someone butchered like this online it was Chris Pratt and he spoke about how he needed to go on a Jesus musical walk to help him recover.

Haha. I honestly don't think Harry actually uses Twitter. I do believe that about him. It's obvious in how he talks that he's very disconnected and doesn't seem to know what's really going on in the world the way a social media user would. He seems like the world's least politically or socially interested person.

So that means I think someone has to actually explain to him what's going on, like a King learning his Kingdom is burning to the ground from a manservant or George Bush having 9/11 whispered to him in a kindergarten class.

But how would you tell the Emperor everyone's just seen him naked online and they're all laughing?

I suspect they're going to be very nice to him about what's going on because he can't handle anything more. "Most of the comments about your Rolling Stone cover have been amazing and the sales have been through the roof! But there are some - only a very angry small vocal Twitter minority, you know the type, angry about everything - people are unhappy about your comments and are claiming you perhaps didn't speak completely in turn about gay sex in movies and some debate about queerbaiting, which honestly is a really vigorous conversation that is necessary to have about LGBT people and we should be grateful to you for having started it. But anyway, if you memorize a few gay movies to name drop and memorize a few great lines about the LGBTs and maybe go visit a gay bar and do something exceptionally gay, it'll all pass. The people love you, God Emperor. Now put your clothes back on."

Then the next day they have to rush in and try and explain to him that those same few loud angry no life having people are now making fun of his accent in the movie, and that's fine! It's only the accent they have a problem with and it's meant to be bad, that's like totally part of the movie okay! Not actually the acting itself.

I doubt he actually scrolls through Twitter to read it all, and I cannot imagine anyone in his life telling him about it as it happened. If he were to understand that over 6 million people watched that acting clip because his acting was so bad, this man with his big giant ego would lose his mind. Remember how angry he was at that concert which wasn't just 100% fans and the dudes didn't look into it?

#anti harry styles #backlash #harry styles #don't worry darling

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mysteriouspenguin29 · 1 year

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Alex and Deccan

i often say Alex and Deccan has Steve and buck dynamic to them let me explain i was saying they are ride or die people who really do care for each other despite their difference. i don’t ship Steve and Bucky watching the movies i never saw them as anything but devoted friends but hey that just me. take these two as whatever but can i go on about how people treat Sam? who i ship Bucky with

dear god is awful sometime some people just say awful thing about Sam and their relationship that he Steve replacement which gross. that he Bucky second choose which also gross, that how Bucky loved Steve so much but I guess SAM will do ew. how in the show Sam is just mean to Bucky for no reason which no it Bucky who being the dick he have this hissy fit that Sam gave the shield away cause Sam really didn’t think he was worth such a honor or i think he wasn’t ready something like that. how Bucky goes on how Steve gave Sam the shield for a reason Bucky sweetie did you forget you best bubble Steve left you to go in the past to be with his fling.

i heard of endgame ending how steve character was ruined how bucky should gone with him blah blah, it just feel people are quietly whispering Sam hate.

there also on oh Steve should gave the shield to Bucky not Sam which yikes on that feel kind of racist to say that.

dear god some stucky fan can be god awful to anyone who dare come between there two white hot men.

no i didn’t watch end game there so much marvel movies coming out it make my head just fucking spin Like people find out spider man identity out cause this man told them his name which guy i think you being clever but the people in new York city who probably have the same name. i don’t think he showed spider man you know real face just said his name. dear god spider man is really never allowed to be happy is he?

but this isn’t about that i heard over and over about the ending of endgame people didn’t shut up about it, even a youtuber comment to think Steve would leave Bucky to go to past to be with the women he loved..is just i think bucky choose to not to go in the past, cause he was finally happy for once he had new friends, new people he can met, learn stuff like that. to him go in the past with Steve is just throwing all the friends Bucky makes including Sam is just...

maybe he’ll get arm back but really i don’t know how that will work honestly.

sorry getting off track again i like steve and bucky friendship i really did, i didn’t see as them as a couple which is fine if you saw them as that. it has been a while since i see the movies so who know maybe there something i missed.

just stop treat the character sam or captain America as crap please he honestly so underrated some people who stucky forgot sam even fucking exist . or treat sam and bucky relationship as them being really cruel to each other which i guess what the kiddo say is romantic

also also people, youtuber, whoever said oh the whole winter solider and the falcon is queerbait to just be okay with Steve and Bucky so called romance when it was never said like jesus you okay with that type of queerbait?

some people excuse just to hate on Sam character is awful

this was about Steve and Bucky friendship not how people treat Sam like dirt

also really like Steve and Sam friendship it so cute at time from what i remember

from what i remember and again i could be wrong Sam and Steve adore each other i mean sam help him find Bucky cause he know what Bucky mean to him

honestly their friendship and relationship is just so underrated

here a picture of them were the old outfit not the new ones

#ocs #steve roger #bucky barnes #their friendship is underrated #their friendship means everything to me #male friendship #ranting

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