#i will write you an essay about why i love 2007 and how it got me back into tmnt
Note
Since Donnie is your fav I am curious how do you feel about Raph? For iterations 03 and 07 also rise because I don’t think you watched 12
(i watched a bit of 12 and i do not care for it. nuff said.)
You are correct, Donatello is my favorite turtle in every iteration. I love an unhinged scientist.
But Raphael in all iterations is so important. And in every iteration he has the softest heart and the biggest feelings.
I did write a post a while ago about how my feelings on 2003 Raph had changed as an adult. As a kid, I didn't like him all that much because he always seemed mean and angry and loud.
But now I understand that anger and how he acts tough because he's a big softy. He doesn't like to be vulnerable, so he acts brash and mean. He buts heads with Leo because his emotions are so big and he can't keep a cool head when his heart's on fire. He's a very passionate kid and he keeps an eye on his brothers. I think he knows them a lot better than they think he does.
One of my favorite moments for him is actually the episode with Mrs. Morrison. He cares about people and he's really a gentle soul underneath all that attitude.
2007 Raph breaks my heart.
I know a lot of people took his attitude in that movie out of context and misinterpreted it to hell and back.
Raph doesn't hate Leo, he missed him. Leo is their big brother, their leader, the one who was supposed to be there to guide them. When Splinter sent him away for training, they expected Leo to come right back after his time was up.
But he never did. He didn't say anything. He never came home.
Can you imagine that betrayal? How much that must have hurt?
Leo is always the opposite for Raph, usually as the cooler head to Raph's heated temper. But Leo was gone and as far as anyone knew, he wasn't coming back.
And Raph just had to watch Donnie run himself into the ground trying to keep them together. Watch Mikey try and keep up a smile when there was a big gaping hole in their family. Watch while all the scum in New York started getting ballsy again because no one was out there knocking heads.
So when Leo finally comes home and acts like nothing's changed, of course it pisses Raph off. Of course he's angry. His big brother disappeared without a word, and then has the fucking gall to show up and expect them to fall back in line, for things to carry on as usual, for it all to pick back up again right where he left it. But it can't. Because Leo was gone and that drastically changed things. And Raph's so angry and hurt, probably feels betrayed and abandoned. His brother just fucking left them behind.
The dialogue before their fight on the roof in the movie hits me hard every time. Raph's letting out all his pent up emotions, all the frustrations and hurt is spilling out of him, and that line,
"We got along just FINE without you!"
Goooooodddddd that scene kills me every fucking time. And how pissed at himself he is when he realizes what he's done, how terrified he looks when he realizes how much he damage he could have actually done. How much he probably hates himself for it.
I really, really wish we'd gotten the other movie(s?) that had been planned for 07. I wish we could have had more time in the 07 movie to explore how things had changed between the turtles and how they had to figure out how to work together again. 2007 are MY turtles and I love them with my whole heart. They also break my heart when I think about how messed up their family ties must be now.
Rise Raph is kind of like a breath of fresh air.
I love that Rise took a chance and changed up the dynamic of the turtles and gave them a chance to show off in ways other iterations really hadn't allowed. I think Raph being the one to shoulder the responsibility of leadership forced him to mellow out and learn how to control his temper. We still get glimpses of that Raphael temper, and I really love that it especially shows up when Leo's the one needling him. It's always been Leo and Raph butting heads and that doesn't change in Rise, the nature of it just shifts a little.
Rise Raph being the biggest and oldest, learning how to be gentle where his other iterations never really had to. Rise Raph is a sweetheart and he wears his emotions on his sleeve just as brightly as every other Raph, they're just in a different color. He's a big guy, with a big heart, and big emotions. I love that he's big enough to hit as hard as he promises to, I love that he uses that to do exactly what every other Raph has always done--throw himself into harm's way to be a shield for his family.
And I know you didn't ask, but I'm just gonna take a second to mention Mutant Mayhem here. Because, my gosh, those kids are about to go through it, I'll bet you anything. Somebody book them a farmhouse, we about to watch Shredder wreck their shit.
MM Raph is a riot. This kid has been cooped up in the sewers his entire life, with his paranoid brother hovering over his shoulder. And the second he's finally let loose, he goes off. And I love that for him.
We haven't seen a lot of that classic Raph temper, but the kid's definitely got a lot of energy and emotions inside him. I hope the show gives all of the turtles their own individual arcs that let them grow, I hope we get to learn more about them. Because that's one thing the movie really lacked, was fleshing out their personalities and letting them be individuals.
I'm really looking forward to what Mutant Mayhem has in store for us.
#long post#i will write you an essay about why i love 2007 and how it got me back into tmnt#sage never shuts up about turtles
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daddy you forgot my FUCKING TUCKBOX 🤣
that dude in the pink shirt walking past Oliver
this part makes me remember my first day at uni WHICH WAS THE SAME YEAR 2006
oh look at Farleigh being unnecessarily rude as usual
FOOKIN ASK ME A SOOM, THEN! he’s so creepy
Oliver looks so beautiful in his tie and shirt and he’s got glasses on at the beginning where do they go later in the movie? Felix get him contacts?
Merseyside… that’s where the Beatles are from (by the way hello I like the Beatles) 🥰
Farleigh has a Lucozade.
The way the professor says “Frederica CAHtthn”
Oliver’s essay is so poetic! “To look as if it were alive,” I want him to write an essay about Sylvia Plath
Oh look at Farleigh being rude again. he’s wrong here. and Oliver’s essay style is POETIC.
“fucking loooooosers” MICHAEL EATS THE FUCKING CRUNCHIE THE WRONG WAY EW EW EW -
The cheeky Christmas song is surprisingly catchy!
Felix be like “siiiiiiighhhhhh” “siiiiiiighhhhh” big brown eyes
But look he’s so sweet “CHEERS OLLIE!” 😁
CanyougetmeanotherpintpleezOlivuh
Oh look at Farleigh forcing Oliver to buy the most expensive drink ever, even in 2007 it was like £6-7 for a Jägerbomb IIRC
THANK-YOU OLLEH whoa!
Oliver waking up and remembering and being all happy is so lovely
Omg this music is so beautiful, favourite part of the score I think
“I’ve not sucked any teachers off.” “Not yet, you ‘aven’t…” 😋 GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE FELIX JESUS
Ollie still has his glasses on when do they disappear
“Was it was it was it was it awful?” How many times did he say was it?
no one ever said chirpsing at my uni 😂 I did not go to Oxford
I think Oliver is wearing Felix’s hoodie because Jack Wills was quite sought after back then…
What if Felix looked outside and saw the cherry of Oliver’s ciggie in the dark, that’s fanfic fuel!
“UUUhm…”
IT’S DISGUSTIN FELIX
Ollie’s face after Felix yells at him
Fuucking wood fucking panelling
I don’t like this bit. 😠
Oh look at Farleigh, he’s actually got a nice cardigan on here!
The use of colour in this film drives me nuts, the blue and red light on Ollie’s face when he leaves the pub
From experience, drinking vodka like that at 18/19 most certainly leads to vomit in high places. Awful stuff.
More red. I want to go through the movie and go red red red red 😂 Felix has a red shirt on.
Fucking - I’ve historically been disgusted by men’s body hair but Ollie’s is… acceptable and by that I mean hot.
“Always check the sleeeeeeeeves!” He actually isn’t directly nasty here but still condescending
When they’re running to the bridge it’s one of the most beautiful shots in the movie. And when they’re standing by the bridge. it makes Barry’s eyes pop.
The way Ollie says “it’s not stupid. thank you.” no idea why that’s significant but I just love the way he says it.
“And I believed him.” You can never leave Saltburn, Ollie. Even if you leave that house, you will never leave that house. 🖤
Duncan. Is. So. Scary. What if he’s a ghost who comes with the house like in American Horror Story? Omg
Felix’s tour makes me so happy “Henry VIII’s sPUnk”
I wish we got a better look at Felix’s room. But the bathroom is where the magic happens.
“A sort of… hellish SQUOT.”
Venetia’s EYES and her TEETH and I want to know what she’s reading (or pretending to read)
They all throw innuendos at Oliver until James stops them also “oh my god she’ll die.” SHE FKN DOES DIE and Elspeth’s way of saying “drAping”.
Oh look at Farleigh being rude some more
“It’s rooooood!”
I forgot to check when Ollie’s glasses disappeared
The face Ollie makes after Felix says “Duncan will be thrilled.”
Of course he doesn’t have fucking CUFFLINKS FELIX
Love Pamela’s high collar feather thing here and also I love her hair
Venetia is perfect Venetia is perfect Venetia is perfect WHY DIDN’T OLLIE PUT SOME CLOTHES ON was he trying to show off his physique to Venetia?
“Sweet.” aw I love her
“Niiiiiight…” 😍😍😍😍
James says “morning,” so sweetly!
Oh look at Farleigh being rude again how the fuck was Oliver supposed to know how breakfast is served in Rich Land?
Venetia’s shirt is something I would wear.
“Look, Pamela.” “Oh nooo…”
Those eggs are really undercooked, I wouldn’t eat them either. They’re not over easy at all. They’re extremely sunny side up.
Sorry but Venetia’s legs and flowers in her hair she looks like Ophelia
EVERYONE was reading the last Harry Potter that summer and we all asked questions like that and made dirty jokes! so much nostalgia!
Venetia leaning through the harp and being scared of The Ring… 😍😭😍🥰
All dressed in their finery playing tennis! They all fuck. And sleep in a hamster pile.
“Yes! Do you know him?” 😁 James is so excited and happy about things, I love him!
THE LABYRINTH OF SALTBURN first Theseus ref I caught
Oh here we go
No one can convince me that Felix didn’t do this hoping Ollie would walk in and catch him so he could be like “why don’t you join me,” and that’s fanfic fuel
How many times does Felix bare his neck in the film
Also this has been said by someone else much more eloquently but people who squick at the 🛁 have obviously never felt desire that hurts and EATS you and makes you want to rip their face off and throw up on their shoes and that’s why Saltburn is so compelling to me
(I had to pause here while I got deep)
Elspeth’s drink matches her dress. This scene is so beautiful and the colours are bloody gorgeous and again making Barry’s eyes pop!
“Sexually incontinent” 😬
Those flowers next to Ollie 💖 match the cushions oh god 💖
“Men are so lovely and dry,” says Elspeth. THEY’RE NOT. Not in this movie anyway.
Bye bye Pamela, I wonder if she had to go through the servant’s entrance.
I could just look at Elspeth forever in this scene…
The vampire scene is unspeakably erotic, I don’t make the rules
The light reflected in Venetia’s eyes 🤩
They definitely went all the way after this and Farleigh watched - whoops, another fanfic idea.
The sex music is so sinister!
AGAIN Venetia looks like a goddess.
Oh look at Farleigh GLOWERING at Oliver. so rude.
Felix flings his napkin like a child! 😂
Farleigh is wearing all beige.
“I can wear my suit of armour, Elspeth!” James being a ray of sunshine again
Felix sat over there pretending to be Lolita srsly
Ollie implies Venetia is out of his league but Felix clearly thinks she’s not and also Felix is so jealous here it’s coming out of his hair
Felix’s sideburns ugh 💖
Venetia must be cold on that step 😕
Farleigh is still wearing beige but I like his jumper. Felix’s orange jumper is not his colour.
“But…”
That shot of Oliver
More gushing about how fucking flawless Venetia is but that’s probably getting old now if anyone’s actually reading this good god my ego
I’ve seen Henry before but I can’t remember where. Something funny.
“She had two arseholes!” excuse me what the FUCK
Low was EVERYWHERE THEN. Perfect choice.
Farleigh fancies the fuck out of Oliver. Look at him manipulating the shit out of the spoiled beige-wearing twink!
“I don’t hate you,” no you fancy him
Henry’s sad face when Farleigh snatches the mic.
James is so excited about karaoke.
There was absolutely no reason for Ollie to sing “I need it,” that way.
And. And. “I love you. You pay my rent.” I can’t explain why that does this to me.
Feeelix and Veneeetia waving their arms together is just so very lovely.
What’s Farleigh wearing on his head in bed? Genuine question.
Also no one can convince me Ollie didn’t ride him here I mean who said that (fanfic idea) him and his fucking mad top energy
I expected someone to throw themselves down the spiral staircase if I’m honest. Or Ollie to throw someone down it.
Venetia among the lily pads 🪷🪷🪷🪷
It was pretty hot in 2007 but I don’t think it was hotter than Barbados…
Brit pop is not a band…
I saw Pulp and Sophie Ellis-Bextor last year at Latitude. 💖💖
“PamelaDIED?!”
The wallpaper in the sacred bathroom is just gorgeous. I want it.
Ollie bowtie 😍
Oh wow that little Felix x Oliver montage made me want Atonement AU with Farleigh watching them fuck in the library
I don’t like this bit either. Not good with secondhand shame and embarrassment.
“Always beetling off by himself,” I could write an essay about the insect symbolism in Saltburn
Is Ollie’s dad the same dad from It’s A Sin?
The talking and ringing is so much like sensory overload in real life!
Red and blue again! Same shirt! And Ollie is in blue and framed in blue.
The black splatty painting next to them… 🤩
This song is such a BANGER! I was not a club girl so I didn’t know it before this.
What did the orchid do to offend Elspeth?
Ollie’s jacket is like something Neil Perry would wear in a dream… 🌿
The light flashes off Farleigh’s ring just before Oliver says hello!
Why would Oliver have fat kids? So rude!! Again!
That’s why Farleigh’s hair is so big, it’s full of secrets!
Barry’s FACE. Just his facial structure. The close-ups of his face are just… chefskiss
Duncan doesn’t feel like dancing dancing miniminiminiminiminiminoo 🎶
Most beautiful shots in the movie of Oliver lurking in the shadows 💙 skulking
“You two are fucking gross!” India knows what’s up
OH FOR HEAVENS SAKE JUST KISS YOU MORONS
there’s a lot of fingers in mouths here that I’ve not linked together before…
Felix still cares about Oliver enough to ask him if he feels better 🥺
The carnage after that party, good god.
That magenta colour is everywhere here. The robe, the flowers, the streamers and balloons and debris on the lawn. it’s perfect.
I love the Minotaur statue so much.
Music here reminds me of the soundtrack of Perfume, which came out in 2006.
The sideways shot with the looming Minotaur is pure art.
“Felix, darling, where’s your jumper?” 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Horrible pie 🤮
Horrible everything
I had a cardigan like Venetia’s back then
I feel physical pain during this scene. my beautiful posh trashy eccentric darling family is breaking apart. 💔
Venetia pouring the wine is so disturbing to me.
James is no longer a ray of sunshine 😭😭😭
Oliver really unleashes the fury on Farleigh. See, being rude gets you nowhere. Hannibal would eat you, Farleigh.
Oh GOD, this HYMN. It’s so beautiful.
James carrying the coffin 😭 and Venetia’s chipped black nail varnish. Poetry about Venetia’s chipped black nail varnish.
Ollie doesn’t get to come to the stone ritual
*siiiiigh* how can something so bizarre be the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen?
I have to make a joke because I’m uncomfortable, sliiiiightly worried about Ollie getting dirt in places it shouldn’t be and having to make up lies to a doctor about how he got mud in his urethra 😬
Sad room 💔
Venetia be like wtf at Ollie asking about the font
See this is my favourite bit (the whole movie is my favourite bit)
I have fanfic planned about this scene. It will be sad and hot and fucked up.
Venetia’s flushed cheeks 💖😭
Ollie barely reacts when she splashed him in the face. How did he not flinch? He has so much control at this point and he knows it.
More fingers in mouth.
Why is this kiss so hot? And the one tear on Ollie’s cheek… 😭
Ohhh I do not like seeing dead Venetia.
James has no sparkle left 😭 he has a signet ring too though
“BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE TO MOVE ON”
That gardener doing a stupid wave at Ollie 🤔
Ollie doing his Tom Ripley as Dickie Greenleaf bit, he’s even got the hair.
Duncan is still there BECAUSE HE IS A GHOST!
Do we think Ollie slowly poisoned Elspeth? Do we think he slept with her? I think so.
On Ollie’s nonsense screen in the coffee shop the only thing coherent is “milk and cookies”!
“I hated all of you,”
When he pulls the tube out it mirrors the statue I think?? One of the statues.
here we go with the magnificent penis
The euphoria I feel at this ending I swear to god
Holy shit this got long
I asked my SO what it feels like to fling your penis about and he didn’t give me a serious answer
Barry’s arse is ridiculous. 🤬
It’s ridiculous.
I’m gonna make some rocks with the Catton’s names on.
And that is that.
#saltburn#commentary#my thoughts all over the place#that nobody asked for#send help#oh god what am i doing#this is beyond obsession
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My final guest episode, with not one but two very special guests!
Transcript below the break
Jane
Hello and welcome back to The Rewatch Rewind! My name is Jane and this is the podcast where I count down my top 40 most frequently rewatched movies in a 20-year period. Today I will be discussing number 7 on my list: Disney’s 2001 comedy The Princess Diaries, directed by Garry Marshall, written by Gina Wendkos based on a book by Meg Cabot, and starring Anne Hathaway and Julie Andrews.
Mia Thermopolis (Anne Hathaway) is a shy and unpopular 15-year-old just trying to survive high school, when the grandmother she’s never met, Clarisse Renaldi (Julie Andrews), shows up and reveals that she is the queen of a small European country called Genovia. Since Mia’s father, whom she also never met, has recently died and had no other children, Mia is now first in line for the throne. While she’s still deciding whether to accept this job, Mia receives princess lessons and a makeover, and has to deal with how these changes affect her relationships, especially with her best friend Lilly Moscovitz (Heather Matarazzo) and Lilly’s brother Michael (Robert Schwartzman).
This movie is so fun and iconic that I felt like I needed two special guests to talk about it with me, so in a few moments I will be joined by my sister Rosemary, whom you may remember from the Newsies episode, and my friend Sophie, whom you may remember from the Enchanted episode. But first, the breakdown of when I watched this movie after I started keeping track: three times in 2003, three times in 2004, five times in 2005, twice in 2006, twice in 2007, twice in 2008, once in 2009, once in 2010, once in 2012, twice in 2013, once in 2015, once in each year from 2017 through 2020, twice in 2021, and once in 2022. Yes, I watched this movie 30 times in 20 years, and I would do it again. So let’s talk about it!
Hello, Sophie and Rosemary.
Sophie
Hi!
Rosemary
Hello.
Jane
Welcome back to both of you.
Sophie
Thank you. Happy to be back.
Rosemary
Thanks for having me back.
Jane
I'm so glad to have you both here, even though you've never met each other before, but I know that you both love this movie, as do I. So I'm very excited to talk about Princess Diaries. I think we can start with how we got introduced to this movie, if we remember. I know that Rosemary saw it in theaters and I did not.
Sophie
That's too bad. Rosemary, you want to go first?
Rosemary
Sure! Um, I don't remember exactly all of the circumstances. I do remember going to see it in theaters with my mom and it was really good. We really enjoyed it. And we're like, Jane will love this, and really liked the line, “Goodbye trolley people!” That really tickled us. And then I do remember around the same time, the local like, bookstore and newspaper, I think, put on this contest where someone could, like, write an essay about why they should be like princess for the day or something. And one of my best friends at the time was like the winner of it.
Sophie
Wow.
Rosemary
So that was when I like, realized that, oh, these are actually books too, and then got really into the books around the same time as well.
Sophie
That's so cool.
Rosemary
So those are my like, early memories of Princess Diaries.
Sophie
Yeah, I actually can't remember if I got into the books or the movie first. Probably the movie, but I would say my trajectory was really similar. Like if I saw the movie first, then I read the books immediately after. And I probably saw like a trailer for the movie on Disney Channel or whatever because I… I do distinctly remember, like they did this thing where like they would if if the movie or show or whatever had a song, they would do, like a music video of whatever the big song was in the movie, and show that as like a commercial for whatever it was. And then in this case, because they're, I mean, there was Miracles Happen and they probably did a music video of that. But they also did, they would show like a scene from whatever it was like, sneak peek into our latest whatever. And so they did the the tea scene at the consulate where the “Gosh, Gee whiz, golly-wolly” exchange happens. And so of course, like me and all my other little 6-year-old friends were saying “shut up” to each other and thought that was the peak of hilarity, which I'm sure our parents were thrilled with. So that was, that was definitely a big, a big scene for us.
Rosemary
And then I also remember like, early on, like shortly after it came out on VHS or whatever, for Jane's birthday, her like birthday party was like… I remember our family, but I don't know who else was there, and we all just, like, gathered in the living room on the pull out couch with the like, little like 12 inch VHS player. And we all like gathered around it and watched Princess Diaries.
Sophie
That's so fun.
Rosemary
And that was like your 12th birthday party or something.
Jane
Yeah. Yeah. No, I I was trying to- cause I definitely remember you and mom going to see it and and coming back and being like, “There was this really funny ‘goodbye trolley people’ scene!” And I was like, what does that even mean? [laughs] But I don't remember like I assumed that I'd seen it before that birthday party, because otherwise why would I have asked to watch it for my birthday?
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
I didn't see it in theaters, but maybe we had rented it or something before that. But I definitely remember that because I we watched it for my birthday party and then since we had rented it, we had it for a few more days and I watched it like multiple times all of the days that we had it because it was also like my birthday was during spring break. And that was only like a couple of months after our aunt died. So it was like a weird time and I was like, kind of sad during that time. But like that week, I just remember like, watching this movie over and over and just being like, “I love this so much! This is the thing that makes me happy!” But I wasn't keeping track of movies yet because that was 2002 and so I'm like, OK, well, if I if I'd started a year earlier, then this movie would have so many more watches.
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
Because as it is, I've watched it 30 times in in the 20 years that I counted. But I don't remember how many times I had watched it before, but I definitely was just, like, so in love with it. I'm not exactly sure what it was about this movie that I was so excited about when I first started watching it.
Rosemary
Well, it's very… it's a very comforting movie.
Sophie
Mm-hmm.
Jane
Yeah.
Rosemary
Like, it feels very like warm and like a hug.
Sophie
Yeah. I do… like, I always worry with the movies that I feel that way about. Like, is it nostalgia or is it really a good movie? I think this one airs on the side of it's really a just a good movie.
Jane
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I I would agree. I just I every time I watch it, I'm just like, this is just so nice.
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
It's, it there's, I mean there's conflict and there's like a few uncomfortable moments. But overall it's just like a nice story.
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
And it has a good it's a good tone between silly, goofy and also like very sweet and sincere, and like it never feels like overreaching in the, like emotional moments that it hits.
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
Like it all feels very like genuine and earned and like realistic.
Sophie
Yeah, for like for finding out that you're a Princess when you're 15. It's a really realistic movie.
Rosemary
Well, yes. Is it based on a true story?
Sophie
But no but I get what you're saying. Like the premise is absurd and at the same time it's very grounded in reality. And I I appreciate that, like, the characters seem to be genuine, like good hearted people. I love that people apologize when they do the wrong thing. Like, and Jane and I were talking before we started recording about the some of the changes between the book and the movie. And I think making Clarisse a nice person is one of the things that this movie does really well. Because book Clarisse would never have apologized to Mia for making her feel bad or, like, not listening to her. And then you get Julie Andrews, who's like, “I'm really sorry that I judged before I, you know, heard your side of the story.”
Jane
One of my favorite stories about this movie coming to be is that when they were talking to Meg Cabot about how they were going to adapt it, somebody was telling her, like, “We're thinking about, like, killing off the dad and expanding the grandmother’s role.” Because because the dad is alive in the books. And like, “We have someone, like a really big star in mind to play the grandmother and we think like, we should expand her role and get rid of the dad.” And Meg Cabot was like, “Well, who… who you were thinking?” and they said “Julie Andrews,” and she immediately went, “Kill the dad.”
[all laugh]
Rosemary
Yeah.
Jane
And Julie Andrews… this was an interesting point in her career because she had recently undergone surgery that caused her to lose a lot of her singing voice. Like that was in the mid 90s. And so she was kind of. In retirement to a certain degree, like she wasn't really sure what the rest of her career might look like. And this was also her first Disney movie since Mary Poppins.
Sophie
Wow.
Jane
And it's just so cool to see her sort of mentoring Anne Hathaway, who is making her feature film debut in a big Disney movie, which is exactly what Julie Andrews had done with Mary Poppins. And first of all, just… hard to believe that this is Anne Hathaway's first movie because she's so… she carries the movie so well, like I do think that's a big part of why you get that grounded feel is like she brings such a like realistic sense to the role of Mia. And I just think she was perfectly cast. And I also just think it's so fun that she's kind of following in the footsteps of Julie Andrews. I mean, obviously her career has looked very different overall, but it's kind of fun that they both have the same introduction to movies.
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
That is really interesting that Julie Andrews didn't do more Disney movies after Mary Poppins.
Jane
Yeah, right? Cause you think, she's such a Disney icon.
Rosemary
Yeah, you would think that like they would be really fighting for her to have roles and stuff.
Sophie
Keep her in. Keep her in the family, in the fold.
Jane
Yeah, that was that was something that I hadn't, I wasn't really aware of until relatively recently. I was looking at more facts about this movie, and I was like, wait really? It's just very interesting. I'm not really sure how that conversation went, of like convincing her to do this movie if she was, like, really excited about it, or if she needed some persuasion. But I'm really glad she did because like, I'm sure I had seen Mary Poppins and Sound of Music multiple times before Princess Diaries came out. But, like, that's really what made me become a Julie Andrews fan is seeing her just totally kill it in this role.
Sophie
Yeah, I think Mary Poppins probably was my first, but this is the first that I like, really remember of her.
Jane
Yeah. So the two of them, I mean, everybody in this movie is great, but I love the dynamic between the two of them and like the whole scene when they're like at the arcade together is really nice, and and just like seeing their characters relationship transformed throughout the movie is great. And I… just thinking about like, yes, this is a romantic story and like there's some focus on her and Michael, but there's so many other relationships that are really important and really focused on in this movie and like, Mia and her grandmother, Mia and her mother, Mia and Lilly. Like there's friendships and family relationships, and it's like, and there's a romance, too. But it's kind of like, that's not really what the majority of the movie is focused on, which I think has always resonated with me.
Sophie
Yeah, I would definitely agree that although the Josh versus Michael conflict is a really big one, it is a romantic conflict and yet it's not like… it's not romantic. It's just, like, kind of an allegory for Mia trying to, in much the same way that to be a Princess or not to be a Princess is like her growing up and developing. Like maybe the things that I thought I wanted aren't the things that are going to make me the happiest. And I do sort of like in the book that she's always had this kind of pining crush for Michael, I think that's very sweet, but it's nice that Josh serves as like a, this, you know, this is what I've thought I've been working towards this whole time and then it turns out it actually is really horrible and I don't like it. And I would rather do something else. I think it serves the same sort of purpose that she's like, growing up and becoming more like sure of herself and confident.
Rosemary
Yeah, I think things that I've always liked about the movie, like the romantic teen sort of aspects of it, is that it feels more realistic to what people actually go through in their high school years than a lot of teen movies. Where they're like, “Oh, this is my true love. I'm going to marry them. I'm gonna…” you know, whereas like Mia has this crush on this guy and like, she gets all giggly and flustered when she's around him and she's not smooth and neither really is he. But, you know…
Jane
He thinks he is, though.
Rosemary
He thinks he is and and I feel like that's very like, sweetly portrayed. And like a very innocent like teen romance feel. But I think a lot of teen movies, they rush into being way too adult and like heavy feeling, but I've always, I've always really liked that Mia doesn't… she doesn't... Josh doesn't notice her because really, any other reason other than because she's a Princess. She doesn't have smooth pick-up lines. She's not like, cool and confident. There's not really any focus on, “Oh she's like, really sexy. So he’s, of course he notices her.” It's really just because he wants to be… have some fame. And then like this guy that's like her best friend's brother, like, I feel like that's stuff that happens to people, you know? It's like you're around these people for your whole growing up years and you're like, “Well, I have feelings. I don't know what these are. But maybe I'm in love with you. But maybe I just…” you know, trying to figure things out. And like she wants to get her first kiss. And it just feels so sweet and innocent in a way that I think a lot of teen movies really miss that point and are really like thrown into like much bigger, like, “I'm desperately in love with you” or “I want to sleep with you” or things like that. And this movie really like, keeps it, like at least more of what my experience as a teenager was where it was like, “Oh, I have a crush on this person. I'm awkward, and then we move on or we hope they notice us. But then when they do, I don't know what to do and…” So that aspect of, it does have that romantic story, but it definitely feels like, yes, these are teenagers who are, like, feeling things for the first time. And what does that mean, and what does that look like?
Sophie
Right. It's very sweet and innocent. She's like, very concerned with if her foot's gonna pop or not. Like she's not…. there's no like, you were saying, it's not like desperate. She's not like, this is, you know, “My my parents say I can't be with this person. And so therefore I have to have them, and we have to run off and get married and then he's going to turn me into a vampire” or whatever. And she wants to be kissed and she wants to have this little like old movie moment. And then she does get that and it's… But it's… with Michael it also is a little bit of maturity. Like, “I don't like him because he's, you know, cute or popular or he has a boat or whatever” it's, you know, “You… you noticed me. You saw the real me and you like me anyway.”
Rosemary
“You saw me when I was invisible.”
Sophie
Tears. And then all the lights turn on and the fountains come on and we’re in the garden with the roses and yeah, so.
Jane
Yeah, that's it's interesting because so much of the movie feels so like relatively realistic given the premise. And then that moment, it does kind of seem a little bit fairy tale-ish. But it's also explained because multiple times throughout the movie, The Queen is talking about how she needs the gardens to be fancier.
Sophie
“Make me an Eden.”
Jane
Yeah, exactly. So they're like working on the gardens the whole time. And so like that kind of that pays off in that moment, too. And it's like, it's not just this came out of nowhere. It's like, this is what the garden needed to be beautiful for!
Rosemary
And I love that we keep going back to, “Yeah, this movie is realistic. The story is realistic” because, OK, first of all, she finds out she's a Princess for the first time when she's 15. And Josh, who's, like a 15/16 year old, has a boating license? And his own boat?
Sophie
[laughing] Yeah.
Rosemary
But otherwise it's it's realistic.
Sophie
They go to this high school that can rent out an entire private beach with a DJ and catering. What even is this party? They’re… Josh is on his boat. The the girls are doing their like studio sound system concert. There's like random food with whole watermelons, for some reason. They do like a close up shot on this kids plate, and he's got half a watermelon filled with grapes like, what are you doing? Who provided this? Who is this for?
Jane
And in a deleted scene they did a banana dance.
Sophie
Right. Yeah.
Jane
But I mean, I guess part of it is explained like, that it is a really fancy rich school because, like, it seems like her royal family members were paying for it, which she seemed to be somewhat unaware of.
Sophie
In lieu of having a relationship, I'll just like send my child to private school and buy a Faberge carousel for her bedroom.
Jane
Yeah, because of course.
Sophie
I did really want that though as a child. The little music box thing. And the diary that opens with the locket. That was the coolest.
Jane
That is really cool. I also think it's funny though, because like the books like the whole conceit of the books is that they are her Diaries, like she's writing them, and in the movie she doesn't even get the diary until the end.
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
Well, you know, but OK, so books that are turned into movies. Generally, I'm like, the book is better. Why do we even have the movie? The movie tried, but it didn't do anything. And I feel very differently about this. I…love Princess Diaries as a movie and I love the book series and they are two very different things.
Sophie
Completely separate entities.
Rosemary
Yeah. And also all I want in the world is like a miniseries that takes place in the early 2000s in New York, where the books take place and shows these teenagers in the early 2000s, actually doing what the books are and like, have it be really good. And I would pay a lot of money to see that. So whatever major streaming service is listening to this, I would love that and to have actually have the main grandma and the dad who's alive and justice for Tina Hakim Baba.
Sophie
God bless!
Rosemary
Because we love her and she needs her moment.
Sophie
She sure does.
Rosemary
So I would love that.
Sophie
Yeah. Well, I I volunteer to to write it. I I I will be in the writers’ room once the strike is over, but with the caveat that it can't be gritty. Like they can't, it can't be dark. There can't be, like, you know, we're all really depressed and sneaking around and like, it has to be as like sweet, but a little more aged up than what the movie was.
Rosemary
Yes.
Jane
Yeah, cause I do definitely feel like the movie is for a younger audience than the books.
Rosemary
Mm-hmm.
Sophie
Yeah, which is weird because I'm sure that I started reading them when I was like 7 years old and she's talking about, like, getting her period at the Moscovitz's house and like wanting to make out with someone at Lilly's bat mitzvah. And I was like, what is what is this?
Rosemary
And then there's that, like, weird stalker man that like is stalking Lilly and wants to see her feet, and…
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
But like, I loved that series so much. Reading those books like, really got me into, like, YA realistic fiction? Realistic. We're going with that again.
[Jane and Sophie laugh]
Rosemary
But like I was obsessed with, like, YA books all through, like middle and high school. And I think it really did start with Princess Diaries. And I was always, like, so excited when a new one came out and would like just devour it. Like even like last year when the…or earlier this year? I don't know. When Quarantine Princess came out, I was like, We have a new one. We still need more of this story.
Jane
How many books are there now? I mean, I guess there's some that aren't, like technically part of that series and…
Rosemary
Yeah. So there's ten that encapsulate her, like high school years, and then there's like a few extra ones that go in there that are like little short ones. And then there's the one I think it's like her wedding, maybe? Yes, that one came out, I think maybe in, like, 2015-ish. And then there's Quarantine Princess, which came out like in blog format in 2020 and then got like compiled and more things added to it and came out like within the last year. So Mia is still around. She survived COVID.
Jane
And there's the spin off ones about her half-sister, right?
Rosemary
Yes. Yeah. So then… I think around the same time that that the one that came out in 2015 that I can't remember the name at this moment, Meg Cabot also made like a middle grade series that there's a younger half-sister that came into the picture. And so she has her diaries as well. So there's like, supplemental content there. And I I read the first one. And it was very sweet and good, but I don't think I read any of the other ones.
Sophie
I just found out about that. So that's all new to me, but I did... I did love the little like Princess Diaries and a half, much like The Lion King 1 1/2 I think is the best Lion King. I think some of the Princess Diaries and 1/2 are my favorites. I think the only one that I actually had was the one where she and Michael do Habitat for Humanity together.
Rosemary
Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, isn't there one where they, like, build houses together or something?
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
Yes. And then there's like a Christmas one too, I think.
Sophie
OK. And then that's probably why I didn't have that one.
Jane
Being Jewish.
Sophie
Yeah because they needed like Lilly’s Hanukkah or whatever. And then I also had, I don't know if you know about these, there's one like companion book written I think by Clarisse. And then there's one written by Paolo and they're like… It's essentially The Care and Keeping of You, but the care and keeping of a princess?
Rosemary
Mm-hmm.
Sophie
And so Clarisse's one is like etiquette. All these etiquette rules for like dining at a fancy party. And then Paolo’s is like, how to, you know, do hair and makeup and stuff. And I love those.
Rosemary
Yeah, I remember reading those too. Is that when they talk about the cousin Sebastiano that like, doesn't finish his words and then he's like, “Please pass the butt.”
Sophie
[laughing] Probably.
Jane
I remember that character.
Sophie
Don't be like him and say “Pass the butt” at dinner, especially when meeting with heads of state.
Rosemary
So there's a lot of Princess Diaries content is what… what we can sum up this conversation with.
Jane
Definitely.
Rosemary
And all of it is good.
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
I feel like, I mean, I know you were, like, way more into the books than I was.
Rosemary
Mm-hmm.
Jane
But I I feel like we read some of them together.
Rosemary
I’m sure we did.
Jane
Like you'd already read them. But like, we used to read stuff out loud to each other a lot. So I think that that was one of the things, at least… cause I remember really liking the third book, and now I'm like, I have no idea what even happens in the third book.
Rosemary
The third book is the best. It’s really good.
Sophie
If that's the one with the non-denominational winter formal, that's I totally agree.
Rosemary
And that's when Michael makes a computer program to tell her that he loves her.
Jane
Oh yeah, okay.
Rosemary
I would read that little section like over and over and over again, and I would be like, if only someone would love me enough to make a computer program that says-
Sophie
Aww, to code for you.
Rosemary
Yeah, and it says, like, “I love Princess Mia.” And then she, like, gets up and runs away because she's like, all embarrassed. And then she's like, later they talk and she's like, “I thought you were making fun of me,” and he's like, “Never.”
Sophie
Aww, what a sweetie. I I love Michael.
Rosemary
I love Michael too.
Sophie
I think casting for him was great. He's so freaking weird in the movie and I love it in the scene where he's he's like still kind of mad at Mia and he comes over to the house. And she, like, gives him the last check for the car. He puts in it between his teeth as he walks out of the door.
Jane
Yeah, for no reason.
Sophie
He has nothing in his hands. What is wrong with him? I love him.
Rosemary
But he's also really weird in the books too.
Jane
Yeah, yeah, it worked.
Rosemary
“He fixes cars, he plays guitar,”
Rosemary and Sophie
“and he can sing. He is so hot.”
Jane
“He is wicked sweet.” I think the person who said “he is wicked sweet” is the infamous cousin Meredith, who was Anne Hathaway's like… I don't know if she was technically her guardian. She was only a few years older than her. But like, I think that Anne Hathaway was still 17 when they started filming. But she was… she turned 18 during filming and that was… helpful to the filmmakers, because then she could work longer. But she was such a baby!
Sophie
I know. Oh, she's so cute.
Rosemary
No, I've always loved Michael. I think he's a great character. He's a great person. He invented a robotic surgical arm in the books that, like, does heart surgery.
Sophie
Yeah, he's- I mean, he was… He's great. I… like I also I really get it as like someone who had – had? has - an older brother who, like all my friends were like, “Wow your brother's actually kind of hot.” And I'm over here, like Lilly, being like, what are you talking about? Are you blind? Because I live with the guy. But yeah, I definitely related to their to their family, as like neurotic Jews, just hanging out.
Jane
I think it's really funny how, like the moment at when they're like about to dance and at the ball at the end and and Mia doesn't know if Michael's going to show up or not and then he comes in. He like comes through the crowd and he passes Lilly and he like tickles her or something. It's like they have a weird little sibling moment there before he goes to dance with Mia and it's just like-
Rosemary
I knew you were gonna bring that up because I think of it every time, Jane’s just like, “It's so weird when he tickles her stomach!”
Jane
It is weird, but it's it's like, a good kind of weird. Of like like I think that too often, again going back to the whole like, romance versus other relationships thing. I think that that too often in romantic stories, it's like, they kind of forget about how everybody, how they're connected to everybody else once the like two get together. And I think that it's nice that their friends are there too. Like that, that Lilly and Jeremiah are also there and like it's showing that that it's like they're all connected and it's not just this. And that like Lilly is really the one who pushes Mia to to realize what being a princess could mean and how that could be a good thing and like a responsibility.
Sophie
Yeah. And I I also, I would agree with you, Jane, that it's weird. I think it's, maybe not on purpose, but like that is a very like, at least in my experience like my brother would do that too, and it would be very awkward, but he would like mean it in a loving way.
Jane
Right.
Sophie
He just doesn't know what else to do.
Jane
Yeah. No. And I I think that's great. I mean it's it's weird but, like, I I love that I love all the little weird things that happen. That's a big part of why I love this movie. There's so many weird little moments that you just kind of like, why is that there? But also I love it. I mean, just the whole thing with like when she breaks the statue, and puts the-
Rosemary
“Maybe it's string cheese.”
Jane
Yeah, exactly! She puts the finger in the mouth of the statue and and that scene is really funny too. I love when she breaks it and she immediately like shushes the statue. Like, “Don't tell anyone that I broke you.” And then like, she just sticks it in there and it's just like kind of a throwaway thing. And then it comes back in the best way. “They're famous for their cheese. Maybe it's string cheese,” and it's just, ah, it's so good. But like that, that serves no purpose, but it's hilarious.
Rosemary
Also, how did she break that statue? Like isn't it made out of like marble? Like…
Sophie
Right.
Rosemary
That she would just like touch it and it would break? Like what? What is that statue made out of?
Jane
That was an untapped part of the story that she also has super strength. But just like nobody- that's why she always falls down and stuff like she does. She can't really control her own strength.
Sophie
Yeah, gravity is too strong.
Rosemary
They would be like, “We can't put that in there because then it would not be realistic.”
Jane
[laughs] But we'll have hints for it anyway. Ah man.
Sophie
Yeah, and and that her first idea is to reattach it with saliva. Like, that's good work.
Jane
[laughing] Uh, I love it. I love it so much. Just like fun moments like that is really, I think what makes it such an enjoyable movie, because like just, there's stuff that still makes me laugh when I've seen it more than 30 times.
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
Just like…
Rosemary
“Please don't crush my soy nuts.”
Jane
“Your soy nuts are safe.” Ohh man. Yeah, just so many great moments. And I mean, I do enjoy the movie Princess Diaries 2, but it just like has nothing to do with anything. I feel like it's so weird that they just like went ahead and made it even though the guy who played Michael couldn't be in it and they’re just like, “Well, Michael's not important anymore.”
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
The fact that they made them break- “Oh, we're still friends, but we're broken up. And now I'm going to like, go fall in love with someone else.” That is not Mia Thermopolis. She is obsessed with Michael. She's in love with Michael. I don't care. Book, movie, whatever. It's fine. Princess Diaries 2 is fine as a movie, but it's a totally different universe. One where Raven is randomly there. And there's mattress surfing.
Sophie
A an African Princess.
Rosemary
Yeah. It’s just-
Sophie
Like, get someone from Africa! I mean, she's American.
Jane
Like, is she an African prin-? Like it's we don't know who she is, she's not explained. It's just like she shows up and and Mia’s like, “Oh it’s you!”
Sophie
“It’s my best friend!”
Jane
And it's like, who is this? We've never seen her before. Please introduce her to the audience!
Sophie
I do. I do wonder if at the end of the first movie they like on the plane to Genovia they enter some sort of like slipstream wormhole situation and just like land in another universe. And that's why everything is crazy in the second movie.
Jane
The castle that they see out the airplane window is completely different in the second movie.
Sophie
I do love it, in like a very campy removed from book and first movie reality way. But yeah it's it's not like… It's not the first one.
Jane
No, and it has a terrible script, like so many of the lines are so forced, and it's like, man, these actors were working really hard to sell this.
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
Like, certain certain moments just, like, don't work at all. There are funny lines in the second one, but I just think the the first one… And I know that like a lot of the script of this movie was changed by Garry Marshall like while they were filming it. They talked about that in - oh, I should mention the commentary, because, while this commentary is not quite as iconic as Ella Enchanted I do… I have seen this a lot of times with the commentary with Julie Andrews and Anne Hathaway having tea and Julie Andrews mostly just wants to talk about the tea, like the literal tea, not like spilling the metaphorical tea of the movie. She's just very excited about having tea. But Anne Hathaway, like, remembers the names of everybody and is, like, wants to give everybody credit for everything. But they talk a lot about how Garry Marshall would expect them to be, like, ready with the lines, but also ready to just like, chuck the entire script out on the day and be like, “No, actually now we're going to do it this way and say completely different lines.” And so a lot of it I think was… not exactly improvised, but sort of changed last minute, and if you watch other Garry Marshall movies, you can see that there's just so many things that he just likes to have in his movies that don't have anything to do with anything. And I think that's part of what makes this movie weird. And it's part of what makes it work too. I think that it feels more cohesive because it's so… there's the Garry Marshall trademark through it all. And that he had his children work on it and gave it sort of a family feel, I think really worked for this one.
Sophie
Yeah. Rosemary, I was saying to Jane that I need nepotism justice for Penny, because Penny is the only Marshall member that is not in this movie. And he mentioned in… I can't remember if it's the commentaries or like, one of the special features that he's like, “They wanted me to cast Penny as the queen and I said absolutely not.”
[all laugh]
Jane
That's got to be a joke, though. I don't think that anyone considered Penny Marshall for the queen, but that would be a hilarious movie. It'd be a very different movie, but it would be hilarious.
Sophie
Yeah. Well, Penny Marshall and actually Carrie Fisher in one of my favorite childhood books they did like a star-studded Emperor's New Clothes reading, and Penny Marshall and Carrie Fisher played the ladies in waiting, who are like very bitchy and talk about the queen behind her back. It's fantastic.
Jane
That sounds amazing.
Rosemary
Yeah, what role could Penny Marshall have played?
Sophie
That's a good question. They could have taken out the puppet and had Penny be the puppet instead. On strings.
Jane
But they didn't use the puppet thing at all. The person who says “Maybe it's string cheese” I believe is Garry Marshall's wife, so she- Penny could have just been one of those like background people.
Sophie
Yeah, she could have been at the state dinner.
Jane
She could have been the pear juggler.
Sophie
That would have been great.
Rosemary
Or one of the reporters.
Jane
Yeah, Suki- What's… Suki Sanchez?
Sophie
Suki Sanchez? Yeah.
Rosemary
No, we don't want to get rid of Suki Sanchez. I mean, one of the ones that were like, “I’m from Teen Scene Magazine!”
Jane
Oh yeah. OK.
Sophie
“She's wearing a grunge look.” No, she's just wet.
Jane
That is so funny. I love that moment. It's like, “She's styling a wet sort of grunge-look hairdo.” It's like yes.
Rosemary
“And is wearing a sweatshirt, jeans, and Docs.”
Jane
“…jeans and Docs.”
Rosemary
The important things.
Sophie
Yeah, I do, I do appreciate that the Docs are like the one thing that made it from book to movie. Because those are very important.
Rosemary
They are her trademark.
Jane
They mentioned in the commentary that like originally, that scene was going to be like very regal and she was going to be in her ball gown and stuff and they changed it so that they would have her looking like looking sort of… mot all put together and to show that her confidence was coming from within rather than from external things, but they still gave her a makeover. So like it was still partly external. I mean, OK, the makeover scene… I don't like makeover scenes in movies. There's too many of them. I will say this one is pretty good. Just because Larry Miller is hilarious: his weird like accent, and then his like, fake European language thing is just like-
Rosemary
“Brushka, Helga!”
Jane
Yeah. Like. Yeah, [imitates nonsense phrase]. Like, he just makes up stuff and it's just so silly and that, like his his little things that he says, like her eyebrows are named Frida and Kahlo. And it's like, really weird things. And so it's it's like not bad. But I also kind of wish that she hadn't had to have a makeover, and they could have just, like, left her hair as it was. I know… I know that her makeover is really to make her look more like Anne Hathaway, and she was like- Anne Hathaway had worn a wig and like fake eyebrows and stuff like that in her, like, earlier look. But I think it would have been really interesting to show like a quote unquote “ugly” person not having to change to be conventionally attractive and still being able to be empowered. But like of course, I'm not saying that they shouldn't have cast Anne Hathaway because she's great in this movie.
Sophie
Sure.
Jane
But at the same time, it's like, Anne Hathaway is also very conventionally attractive. So like, it would have been cool to have a like more not conventionally attractive looking person in this role, and just like, let her be who she is and look the way she looks. But that obviously wasn't what this movie was trying to do, but like that is one thing that that bothers me a little bit about it.
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
She's also blonde in the books.
Jane
Yes.
Rosemary
Don't they give her a Pixie cut?
Sophie
Yeah, they cut- I think that's what Paolo's referencing when he says, “Next time a little shorter.” But yes, there's a very distinct reference in the book where she says her hair looks like an upside down yield sign because it's so it, like, here and then goes straight. You can't see me in the podcast, but I'm gesturing.
Jane
Yeah, it's like a triangle hair thing. I remember that being mentioned.
Rosemary
Yeah, I think about that a lot. Like,
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
Her yield sign hair.
Sophie
I feel like part of what makes the makeover scene work - I I will agree with you, Jane. I think they give her way too much makeup for a 15-year-old, and then they just like the framing of it as like, she started out so hideous and then look what I… look what I made of this mess you gave me - is Paolo's, like you said, he's just so funny. He's so weird and a little gross, but like in an amusing sort of way. And she also seems to be… once they finish plucking her eyebrows, she seems to be really enjoying herself. She's got her Walkman. She's got cucumbers on her eyes. She's like, bopping to the music a little bit.
Jane
“The cucumber does nothing.”
Sophie
[laughing] Nothing.
Jane
Yeah, I don't object to it too much. It's just sort of the concept of…of makeovers is a little…
Speaker
Sophie
Jane
Obnoxious to me, but it it works. And I also think it's interesting because I believe from what I remember of the books, when she's exposed to the press in the books, it was actually the grandmother who told the press. And they changed it in the movie so that it was Paolo.
Sophie
“I, Paulo Puttanesca!”
Jane
That scene, just like, first of all, we also have to talk about Sandra Oh.
Sophie
Yes!
Rosemary
I was gonna bring her up too.
Jane
She, as the vice principal, Gupta, is so good. She's like only in it a little bit, but every moment she has is perfect. From the from the beginning, when she's like, “Morning, Lilly! …Lilly's friend.”
Sophie
Lilly’s friend!
Jane
And like but that scene when she like answers the phone with her iconic, “Gupta. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The Queen is coming. To Grove High School.” It's so good. And then and then when the Queen shows up and she's like fawning over her and, like, imitating her gestures and then just like, she, like, gives her this teacup. And it's like, “I'm sorry, we don't have finer China.” And then she just, like, hands a paper cup to Helen, the mom.”
Sophie
Uh-huh. “Here!”
Jane
So good. And then when Joe brings Paolo in and they have their whole little like routine of like he keeps starting to go and Joe, like, pushes him back is- that scene is just… There's just so much comedy gold there. And it's like it's amazing.
Sophie
Well, yeah, so Larry Miller is in two of my favorite childhood movies that came out around the same time: this one and Best in Show.
Jane
Yeah. And he's also in Mighty Wind. And he-
Sophie
Right.
Jane
He's he sets up one of Jennifer Coolidge's best moments too, when, because he's the one that she has one- They have one brain between them. The two of them, so yes.
Sophie
Oh, OK. Yeah. So he just like… The difference between those two roles, but they're both equally funny and weird.
Jane
Yeah, yeah. Best in Show he's awful. Like, I mean, I guess he's awful in this too. Like, his character is. But in that one, he's just like openly flirting with a married woman and then his- oh yeah, his job is like to talk people down…
Sophie
Down off ledges, yes.
Jane
…who are going to jump off building, but he's terrible at it. And he's just like, “Oh, they always jump.”
Sophie
“Their eyes pop out like grapes!”
Jane
[laughs] Ah, he's so he's such a silly man.
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
But yes, so I enjoy him. I enjoy Sandra Oh, a lot. I enjoy Kathleen Marshall. I think that her Charlotte is…
Sophie
So sweet.
Jane
…a very a great character. I also… Not that I want there to be more romances, but I really like the thing between Clarisse and Joe and how they… their dancing scene is kind of… it- it has moments that remind me of The Sound of Music with Christopher Plummer like their dancing scene. But I love when Charlotte comes in and is like about to say something and then sees they’re having a moment and just like backs away.
Sophie
Yep, I’ll go away now. Yeah
Jane
My other favorite Charlotte moment is when [laughs] when she's worried because Mia hasn't shown up at the ball at the end and Clarisse is like, “Is everything all right?” And she goes. “Everything's perfect. Perfect? It's wonderful!” “You're not very good at lying, are you, Charlotte?”
Sophie
“No I'm not.”
Jane
“No, I'm not, your Majesty.” Oh, it's so good. So good. There's just… I think that's ultimately… like, I mean the story overall is great and the acting is great and all that. But like, I think just all those little fun little moments are really what keeps me returning to this movie is it's just like there's so many fun little scenes like that.
Rosemary
“And that's enough pear juggling.”
Jane
Such a good- like, ah, there's just, yeah. It's just such a fun little movie.
Sophie
It's funny, you mentioned the- the dance scene because I was thinking about how… like sweet, that is when he says, “You've been wearing black for far too long.” And in comparison, I had no recollection of this line from Lilly, but she says to Mia, she says, “The guy died, what, two months ago? I thought you'd gotten over it already.” What are you talking about?
Rosemary
Her dad died 8 weeks ago and you're like, “You should move on.”
Sophie
Chop chop!
Jane
Well, but also, she'd never met her dad. So like…
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
True…
Jane
But also like I feel like that's also not a very long time to mourn your son? Because it's like…
Sophie
Right.
Jane
But I think that her husband died the previous year?
Sophie
Yeah, I think he's- I think he's referencing Rupert, not Phillipe.
Jane
“King Rupert, may he rest in peace.”
Sophie
“Rest in peace.”
Jane
That's from the second one though.
Sophie
I also didn't recall Pierre. I didn't recall there being a brother at all.
Jane
Oh yeah.
Sophie
Maybe he's not in the book, but…
Jane
Is he in the book?
Sophie
I don't remember him.
Jane
It's really like referenced, sort of offhandedly, like, “Oh yes, my my eldest Pierre wanted to abdicate and join the church.”
Sophie
Yeah
Jane
It's like, you have another kid?
Sophie
What?
Rosemary
Yeah.
Jane
Where's he? That… yeah, that was... I feel like that was kind of unnecessary.
Sophie
Yeah, there are a lot of changes that I feel like they really didn't need to make. Like Mr. G in the book is an algebra teacher, Helen’s boyfriend. And now all of a sudden, he's Mr. O'Connell and teaches debate, but also coaches baseball, but also teaches English?
Rosemary
Is just always there.
Jane
They have like four teachers in the school and they're just all in every class.
Sophie
There's Coach Harbula, there’s Vice Principal Gupta, and there's Mr. O'Connell and maybe there's one other person floating around.
Rosemary
The choir teacher.
Sophie
Oh, yes. Yes okay.
Jane
In the scene when when Mia puts the ice cream on Lana and Gupta’s like, “Oh, I was in a very important meeting,” it's just the four of them.
Speaker
It's just them having lunch.
Jane
Like, that's the entire staff of the- of the school.
Sophie
Of Grove High School.
Rosemary
“Lana got coned! Lana got coned!”
Jane
I was so confused by the “Lana got coned” chant for a long time.
Rosemary
Yes.
Jane
Because I couldn't tell what they were saying. And I was like, is that a thing?
Rosemary
I know!
Jane
Or is that just like, what people would have just decided to call this?
Sophie
It's the early 2000s, as opposed to late 2000s equivalent of getting slushied I guess. It's just something that happens in high schools with mean kids. I don't know. I also, speaking of not being able to understand what people are saying, for my entire life until this rewatch, I thought, Fontana said after the debate situation, I thought she said to Mia, “I thought you were speaking at the Believe It convention.”
Speaker
OK, I thought that was just me!
Sophie
It’s bulimic.
Jane
Yeah!
Sophie
Which makes so much more sense, but I was like… what? Who? What is this? Is this something that I should know about?
Rosemary
Oh, the Believe It? What?
Jane
Yeah, that's what I heard too.
Rosemary
No!
Jane
Because she's like, “Is it true you're speaking at the Believe It convention?” and-
Rosemary
No!
Jane
Yeah, okay.
Sophie
Like I can’t believe it.
Rosemary
It’s definitely “bulimic.”
Jane
Well, yes, that does make a lot more sense. But yeah, no, I couldn't understand that for a long time too. OK. I'm glad it's not just me. I thought once I figured out what they were saying, I was like...
Sophie
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
Jane
Of course, that's what they're saying, but OK, yes.
Rosemary
I was definitely… it was one of the more recent rewatch is when I realized she was saying “a yachting yahoo.” I thought she was just saying “a yada yahoo.”
Jane
Ohh yeah, I thought that for at first for a while too. OK. Do you remember? I I have no clue when this was, but we used to have a computer in the basement and it didn't- It wasn't connected to the internet, we just used it for like writing papers and stuff?
Sophie
Typing and stuff, yeah.
Jane
And it would have… we made it so that the screen saver was like word art. And we… it was like, the showers upstairs didn't work, so we would always shower in the basement and we walk by this computer and like every time we would walk by, we would change the screensaver to the next line from that scene when Lilly and Mia are fighting and playing basketball, like that scene. So I just remember, like we would just, we quoted that whole scene in the screen saver on that computer for no reason just because it was a fun thing to do.
Rosemary
Yeah!
Sophie
That that very much tracks with what I know of your childhood and your relationship.
Jane
Yes. So I still think about that computer whenever I think about that scene.
Sophie
That’s funny.
Jane
But I'm I'm not sure if we wrote “yachting yahoo” or if we wrote, “yada yahoo.”
Rosemary
Yeah, I don't know. I also need to mention that I was a youth that kept a diary pretty faithfully, and there is a section of a diary that I had around that time where I was like, “I can't believe I keep saying the word ‘I.’ I should think about other people!” And it was because I was like, inspired by Mia Thermopolis's speech. But it was like, it's so funny. There’s this little section of like 12-year-old me being like, “I need to stop saying ‘I.’” Like it was just a new thought that had occurred to me.
Sophie
Sure. That's… that's sad and cute at the same time.
Jane
Yes.
Rosemary
So what else do we need to cover?
Sophie
Well, I definitely want to mention the soundtrack, which I think is one of my favorite parts of this movie. I think I… I mean, I've seen the movie a zillion times and like, had the VHS and the DVD, but I also had the CD and I must have listened to the CD until it was like, so scratched beyond belief. Every song is so good.
Rosemary
Mm-hmm.
Jane
Yeah. I remember we got the CD from the library a few times, but we never owned it. We had the Princess Diaries 2 soundtrack.
Rosemary
Yeah.
Sophie
Also good, but not quite as good.
Jane
I was just so excited about Julie Andrews singing again. So like…
Sophie
Yes. That is my favorite song from the second movie.
Jane
Yeah, definitely. Not sure why Raven’s there, but you know, it's still a great song.
Sophie
She has to do some sort of hippity hoppity for the youth. They they won't they won't last doing the… just Julie Andrews doing like a musical style number.
Jane
“But I don’t know how to do this sort of thing.”
Rosemary [overlapping with Jane]
“I don’t know how to do this.”
[all laugh]
Jane
Oh man, anyway, but yes, the the soundtrack for the original movie, which is what we're supposed to be talking about, is really good. There's so many great songs on it, and I really I- it's super random, but I really enjoy Mandy Moore singing “Stupid Cupid.” I don't really know why she sings it there in the movie, but like it's great.
Sophie
It's a weird song to have in that scene. It's weird that she sings it, but I'm so glad she does.
Jane
I also really enjoy that Anna and Fontana are there as backup singers, but their mouths never move. They're just like doing a dance. And like you hear the like background vocals, but they are not singing.
Sophie
They're not lip syncing. Yeah, I will say Mandy did not lip sync that scene particularly well. But her outfit is good enough to where it doesn't even matter. Her polka dot skirt is incredible.
Rosemary
And the like uni-boob tank top sweater.
Sophie
Yeah, the the halter sweater with the handkerchief hem. Oh my gosh, it's very Y2K.
Rosemary
It's exactly what I would wear to the beach.
Sophie
Sure. And platform flip flops.
Rosemary
I also need to confess something that as a child when this movie came out, whatever, I was very confused because I thought that Mandy Moore and Marilyn Monroe were the same person. And so I was so confused because I like knew that Marilyn Monroe… like I wasn't 100% sure who she was, but I knew she was like an icon and that like she was in Princess Diaries, cause it was like an alliterative M name, and I totally like was like, I don't know, it's got to be Marilyn Monroe. And then like… finding out more about Marilyn Monroe as I got older and then I was like…. I don't think that's Marilyn Monroe...
[all laugh]
Jane
I think she's very dead.
Sophie
I don’t think so.
Rosemary
I don't think it's the same person, but I’m not sure.
Sophie
It could be, but I'm not quite sure.
Jane
That's amazing.
Rosemary
But I remember being very confused about Mandy Moore and Marilyn Monroe in that movie.
Jane
That's amazing.
Sophie
That’s really cute.
Jane
One thing that I think is really interesting that I didn't quite pick up on until more recent rewatches is like just speaking of the whole beach thing: They're taking pictures of a 15-year-old in a state of undress and publishing them in tabloids. And it's seen as the 15-year-old's fault.
Sophie
Mm-hmm.
Rosemary
It's horrible.
Jane
It's it's terrible and like it's supposed to be bad. And you're like, supposed to think like, oh, it's- I feel bad for her, but I hadn't quite absorbed how awful that is. And it's like, I mean, that does happen, stuff like that. And it's like it's her fault when it very much was not for several reasons. But I just, it's just like, struck me as so much more disturbing to be like, OK, we're gonna have this undressed teenager that we took pictures of without her consent and blame her for it, and that was upsetting to me when I was just realizing that. But I also think that the scene when Clarisse confronts Mia about that is really well done. I think that they like, hit those emotional beats really well, and just like that, that she's really disappointed in her. But like Mia handles it well. And then I love when Joe comes in and sort of says, like “You were too harsh on her” and that they managed to slip in some levity with her with that moment of, like, “Her friends didn't help- Anna, Banana… Montana.” And I love that. And then that like, that's the moment when Clarisse says, “I have no idea what you're talking about” is great. But I also think it's like such a good point of, like, the thing. About like, “As a queen, I was too critical of the person who could become the next ruler of my country.” And he says, “No. As a grandmother, you were too harsh on your granddaughter.” And then that she takes that into the scene when they're in Mia's house talking about giving the speech or whatever, but she says, like, “I am first and foremost your grandmother.” And then that great moment when she hugs her and then just kind of goes, “Ah! I- I did it! I hugged someone!” is so great because she's been so emotionally distant and yeah. I just, I think that they really like they… they Julie Andrews-ified the queen but they didn't like make her completely like… soft and lovable. I mean, I guess it's kind of Mary Poppins too, where she's like, standoffish, but then also like sweet underneath.
Rosemary
But she's definitely not Maria von Trapp.
Jane
No.
Sophie
Correct.
Jane
She has to go through a journey too. Like the queen goes through a journey as well as Mia, and they go through very different journeys but kind of meet up at the end. And it's also just really nice that Clarisse still believed that Mia could do it and, like, had a tiara ready for her, even though she said she was going to step down and like… The whole end part of the movie just really pays off and I think that their relationship arc, the grandmother/granddaughter relationship is really… a great central story to this whole thing. Like it's like, yeah, it's about a girl who finds out she's a Princess, but it's also about, like, becoming connected with her estranged grandmother, who also needs some connection in her life. And I think that that's very well done.
Sophie
Yeah, I totally agree.
Jane
Mia's dad is dead, but we see, like pictures of him and one like flashback and that is Anne Hathaway's actual father. The voice is not. But they were going to use pictures of him, but then the scene with- when he's writing the note in the diary, they were just going to have somebody else wearing a wig to look like his hair, but then he happened to be in San Francisco for unrelated reasons while they were filming there. So they just, like, got him writing the letter. So that's kind of fun.
Sophie
That’s so cute.
Rosemary
I think another thing that this movie does well is like, adults taking teenagers seriously.
Jane
Oh yeah.
Rosemary
And like listening to them like… Mia and her mom had, like, real conversations together, and her mom doesn't just like, brush her off and be like, well, you're just a dumb teenager. Like her mom, like takes things to heart. And, you know, when she's like, “How could you lie to me for 15 years? I don't feel protected,” like her mom, like, takes that and it's like, this is where we're at now, and let's see what we can do to move forward. And then again when Mia’s like, “I can't believe you're dating my teacher!” She's like… she actually apologizes to her.
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
And like when even like… the premise of the Mia has to hit a baseball to pass gym class is stupid, but like I even really like that gym teacher because she's just like, “I'm rooting for you.” And like…
Sophie
Yeah, I love Coach Harbula.
Rosemary
Mm-hmm.
Sophie
She, like… without like compromising her… like Mia says, “I can't do this. I'm a girl” and she's like... “Hello!”
Jane
“What am I, a duck?”
Sophie
“What am I, a duck?” Yeah. Which is hilarious when in the bonus features, you see that actor make duck noises and various other sound effects, which she's fantastic at. But yeah, she's very supportive while like being like, “You, you got to do this thing. I know it's hard.” Then she does it, and she's so proud of her at the end, which is really nice. And you know, having Josh get hit in the balls is… not a downside in the slightest.
Jane
I also think it's really funny that nobody else in the outfield can possibly pick up the ball. Just like, “You have to get up and throw it. We can't come over and find it.” Like I think that’s really funny.
Sophie
Well, one kid, one kid is on the phone with his mom about the dentist, so it couldn't be him. And then-
Jane
Bobby Bad.
Sophie
Twelve girls are doing some sort of cheerleading routine, so it couldn't be them.
Jane
Why- OK. But also like, why is the entire staff there? Because like Gupta-
Rosemary
Mr. O'Connell have picked up the ball.
Sophie
I know!
Jane
Yeah. Like, why was he there in the gym class? Why is Gupta coaching the cheerleaders? Like it's just like it's... I don't know. OK, two things that I was gonna say. One thing: going back to the mom relationship. I love when after the like beach fiasco, the mom says like, “My mom always told me not to cry and like to be strong. But you've been hurt. So you just cry.” And like I think that's so great. It's like, yeah, feel your feelings. Let's encourage girls to to feel their feelings and not shame them for being upset when upsetting things happen. And the other thing going way back to when we were talking about why the teacher changes from algebra to the like, debate teacher, because in the books Mia is really bad at math and then like her mom’s dating her math teacher. But I think that it really… it contributed to the arc to have her like, have this fear of public speaking and then like going into being a Princess where like you have to do a lot of public speaking and like that, adding to the reason of like, why not only why she doesn't want to be a Princess, but why she doesn't even want to show up to abdicate the throne. Like she's going to run away to Colorado in a car that doesn't run. That seems like a good plan.
Rosemary
Without a driver's license.
Jane
Yeah.
Sophie
With the cat!
Jane
With the cat, yeah!
Sophie
She's gonna take the cat to go rock climbing. And you can tell Fat Louie is like, first of all, this is a terrible idea. Second of all, please do not bring me into this. I want to live in my warm firehouse, OK, with my crazy artist mom. Do not take me to the rocks.
Jane
Yes. But anyway. So yeah, I think that that might have been part of why they decided to make the teacher that the mom ends up with be the debate teacher. So they could show that- set it up really early.
Rosemary
Yeah, it's definitely like easier to show being bad at debate in a movie than it is to be like “I am bad at algebra.” Like…
Jane
Yeah.
Sophie
Well, yeah. And it's, it's also like it's not Mean Girls where she has to solve the equation at the end of the movie for the big finish. It’s like she has to make this speech.
Rosemary [overlapping]
Make a speech.
Sophie
Right.
Jane
Yeah, it's like it's not that she's found out she's like inheriting a math thing like, “You… you have… you have to be the head of the math department because of who your father was” or something. It's like, “Oh, no, but I'm bad at math!”
Sophie
Yeah. That's hilarious.
Jane
So yeah, so I think that it works. I do think it's weird that they changed his name but…whatever
Sophie
Hmm-hmm. I don't know, maybe there are more Irish people than Italians in San Francisco, which I don't think is true, but-
Jane
They changed it to San Francisco just so they could have the scene where she, like, goes down the hill and runs into a trolley. Like, that- which is a great scene, by the way, but like-
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
It's like it doesn't really have anything to do with the story. I guess I guess it shows the queen in action, which it's a little bit of like showing that royalty can get away with stuff that other people can't. But I just think it's just so great to show that the queen can like...
Sophie
She's loosening up a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you, first of all, get the nuns calling 911 and they're busy and they say, “For the love of God,” which is hilarious, iconic. Then you get the Order of the Rose and then at the end, she says “Goodbye trolley people.”
Jane
And you get the, “Does anybody have a Saber?” “I've got an umbrella!” Which I love. I love, first of all, like, of course, everyone's carrying around a Saber, and then just like “I've got an umbrella” and she's like, “uhh…” “Well, I have an emergency brake!” “This will do nicely,” so great. And then and then I love that the trolley driver and the police officer show up at the ball at the end with little like things like they got an official badge.
Sophie
With their medals, yeah. So cute.
Jane
Yeah, it's like, oh, yes, they- let's make the Order of the Rose a real thing. And, and also Anne Hathaway's “Oh- OH OOOOHHH!” is so well done. Like, every moment of that scene is just great.
Sophie
Yeah, 100%.
Rosemary
I think going back to adults taking teens seriously and paying attention to them, I think another really good example of that is Joe.
Sophie
Mm-hmm.
Jane
Oh yeah.
Rosemary
And the ways that he, like, pays attention to Mia and like he encourages her, like, when Lilly has a negative reaction to her like getting a makeover. And he's just like, you're going to be OK. And then what we already talked about when he, like, goes… when Clarissa was like, “Was I too hard on her?” and he was like, “Yeah, you were.” I really like the ways that Joe is like a safe adult for her. And like is a really good bodyguard sort of person.
Sophie
Yeah, he won't let her take the flags off the limo, but he will quote Eleanor Roosevelt to her and put up the divider screen so she can put on pantyhose in the back seat.
Jane
Well, and he won't let her call him Joey.
Sophie
Right. But he'll go and buy her high heels.
Rosemary
He went and got her the pantyhose and the high heels.
Sophie
Yeah.
Rosemary
And like, he seems like he knows what's going on. Also when he's like, “with the beach friends” and like knowing that they're like, ridiculous and mean to her and like… Yeah, I think... I think that that is another reason why this movie was so like… comforting as a child and teen to watch because you're like, “my problems do matter,” and like “adults do care about teens” kind of thing. I think that there's that sense of it that really makes it a comforting movie and like… I hope that all teenagers have aJoe in their life, or a Clarisse, or a Helen or a Coach Harbula, or Charlotte, or, you know? The way that that Mia has these supportive people in her life that aren't even necessarily related to her. It's a really nice portrayal of that.
Sophie
Yeah.
Jane
Yeah.
Sophie
I totally agree.
Jane
Anything else that we desperately want to add? I mean, there's so much more that I could say about this movie, but uh, I don't want to just go on and on forever. I think that that that we've covered a lot of the important things about it.
Sophie
Maybe we can release our own deleted scenes at some point.
[Jane and Rosemary laugh]
Sophie
With puppets.
Rosemary
And bananas?
Sophie
Yes.
Jane
The deleted scenes are very interesting. I think that they did a great job of figuring out what to delete and what to keep.
Rosemary
A great job of deleting them.
Sophie
Yes.
Jane
Yeah. Because a lot of times like you, you see deleted scenes and you're like, “Oh, this could have been in the movie.” I mean, I guess the one I I do think it would have been nice to see Mia and Michael having pizza together.
Sophie
Mm-hmm.
Jane
Because it is a little odd that the pizza is so important at the end, and they've just like kind of mentioned it once in a throwaway line right before “Wait up. Wait for me! Not you. I don't even know you!” which is amazing and I love it so much. We haven't talked enough about Lilly I don't think. But she is a great character.
Sophie
Mm-hmm.
Jane
I feel like very often in movies where there's like a best friend, the best friend is just kind of there to like be a sidekick and I think Lilly Moskovitz is no one’s sidekick and she, like, is doing her best to make a difference in the world. And then, like finds out that her friend actually might have the means to really make a difference. And like, calls her out when she's like, “Yeah, you absolutely can do this.” But she's like Lilly's not perfect. Like, she gets really jealous of Mia. And so I think that that she's a very complex character. And I really like the way that she's portrayed.
Sophie
Yeah, I think if we were talking about the second movie we could say more because I think Lilly is a more active participant in the sequel, but we do get the great scene of her trying to vamp while she has Jeremiah on Shut Up and Listen. And you know that is one of the major conflicts is like Mia’s ditching all her friends for this, you know, popularity that she thinks she wants and then it turns out that that's not actually what's going to make her happy.
Jane
It's so wild to me that she doesn't even tell Lilly that she's going on a date with Josh. Like it… it seems like that would be something that you would tell your best friend, even if you forgot that you were supposed to be doing something with them. It's almost like, did Mia forget? Or was she, like, intentionally avoiding her because she- I mean, I know there was the whole thing earlier in the film when when Lilly's like, “Jerk and jerkette sighting” and like, Lilly does never like Josh, so I guess that could have been part of it too, but it's like at least she tells Michael that she's not showing up for their date, whereas like she doesn't even tell Lilly she's not going to be on her show.
Sophie
Yeah, I do think there could have been some sort of mention like “I can't tell Lilly what I'm doing because she's gonna judge me and like, she's gonna be even more mad if I, you know, tell her I'm I'm going to the party with Josh than if I just, like, didn't show up.” But…
Jane
Yeah, but she doesn't even… it's like she forgot about Lilly completely.
Sophie
Right.
Jane
Like it's like I'm not thinking about Lilly at all. And it's like… interesting to show her kind of starting to go off into this direction of like, “I'm going to be a mean popular kid” and then just like, totally failing at it and being like, “You know, that wasn't me. I totally messed up.” The movie does a good job of showing you how to take responsibility for when you mess up and then like showing, but you don't have to take responsibility for everything. Cause like not all the stuff that happened at the beach was Mia's fault, and it's portrayed as unreasonable that like people get so upset at her about that, but also like some of the stuff she did was bad, like she ditched her best friend and like showing her take responsibility for that, apologize, try and make amends for both Lilly and Michael, I I think I just think that's done really well. And I think that that's a good message to be giving to kids of like, you do need to take responsibility for the stuff that is your fault.
Sophie
And when she does apologize, she never like demands that she be forgiven. Like she says to Lilly on the roof, she's like, “I hope you can forgive me.”
Jane
Mm-hmm.
Sophie
She doesn't like expect that that's automatically going to come just because she said she's sorry, which I think is really cool.
Jane
Yeah and I love Lilly’s response of, “But what will I wear?” And she's just like, “Oh, I'm so glad you're gonna come!” And it's it's just a really sweet moment.
Sophie
And I will, I will say when she hugs Lilly after Lilly says she's going to come to the party, her foot does pop.
Jane
Yes it does. I I noted that as well.
Sophie
So it's not just, it's not just a romantic thing. It's for any kind of love.
Jane
Yeah. And again, that's… what I do really like about this movie is that they focus on a lot of different kinds of love, a lot of different deep relationships with different people, and I think they do a really good job of developing many of them and that's really great.
Sophie
I love this movie.
Jane
Ah, me too.
Rosemary
I do too. Well, thanks for… thanks for having me on to talk about it again.
Jane
Yes, I'm so glad to have both of you back.
Sophie
I'm so glad we got to talk about it. The three of us, that was fun.
Jane
Yes! So uh… thank you so much for being here and I… don't know how to wrap this up.
Rosemary
Miracles happen.
Sophie
“Thank you for being here today.”
Jane
“Thank you for being here today.” Yes. Oh, that's another great moment that I must mention when Joe is, like, so committed to pretending to drive the car that he even like puts the parking brake on before getting up. So great. Anyway, “thank you for being here today.” I love this movie. I love both of you and I'm so glad that we did this.
Sophie
Me too.
Rosemary
“Goodbye trolley people!”
[all laugh]
Jane
Ah, that was so fun. Thank you to Sophie and Rosemary for that lovely chat, and thank you audience for listening! This will be my final guest episode; my top six are so personal that it feels right to just talk about them myself. The next two episodes will be the final tie on my list, featuring the two movies that I watched 31 times. Coincidentally, one of them is the oldest movie in my entire top 40, and the other is the newest. The newest movie is also the shortest movie on the list, so I’ll be talking about that first. As always, I will leave you with a quote from that next movie: “First off, I work alone. Always have, always will. Second, take a hike. I don’t touch Hollywood cases. Not since… The War.”
#the princess diaries#garry marshall#anne hathaway#julie andrews#the rewatch rewind#i love this movie so much#and chatting about it with friends was so fun
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dts s2 e4-6
e4:
-sorry seb's "says who?" at the start of episode (in response to ferrari telling him what to do) GAGGED sets the tone for the episode PERFECTLY
-mattia talks about monza the way indy drivers talk abt the 500 lmao
-the whole "there is no #1 driver" bit makes me think hey r there parallels to be drawn between sebchal here and alonso/hamilton in 2007? just thinkin about it
-before i get to far i want to share some thoughts: when i first watched this episode with NO prior knowledge it was rly hard to follow. after i heard about the specifics of the ferrari engine controversy (cheating), for the second watch i remember this episode suddenly clicking for me! this episode would've benefitted so much from a will buxton monologue explaining the juicy details for a newish viewer. i understand that there might have been pressure from ferrari to not include those details but it is such a shame, to have such a core piece of information missing and viewers have to try to piece together the narrative without it :/
-HI LAURA WINTER
-very much get the impression that seb is like the family member who notices the generational trauma and going hey maybe we should change things to stop that and gets exiled from the family instead :) those sure are the vibes
-HI CHARLOTTE
-im sorry the back to back "seb has a lack of confidence with the car. and charles' car is not performing" like theyre the same car but you're gonna frame it like its seb's fault but not charles's? mattia choke
-at the part where they're explaining the engine controversy--i still stand by wishing they explained it better and EARLIER because i think its much needed context for the first half of the episode too
-at the end of the day all i need to know is that seb clearly thought that what ferrari did was wrong, and thats all i need to know if he says so then i believe it!!
-the way netflix is trying to tease like ~oh imagine all the different teams he could go to! who wouldnt want him~ is so cheeky but also i NEED to know what this was like live when yall didnt know where he was going i'm JEALOUS i wish i got to be there for it all to unfold
-double ferrari dnf at monza must've been crazy to watch live too lmao
-seb zigzagging through all the photographers on his bicycle. love him
-seb announcing his new seat the same weekend as ferrari's 1000th is crazy ex girlfriend levels of unhinged (pos). like posting ultrasound pics the same day as your ex's wedding type of shit. no one does it like him
-sorry im incapable of watching ferrari episodes without writing an essay. hope you enjoyed
ep5:
-the great daniel/cyril divorce
-i cant remember who said it or where i saw it but when i first got into f1 properly someone talked about how Different things might've been if there hadn't been covid--since the season was delayed, the contract was signed before reneault could have any races with daniel that year--so daniel could only make that decision based off 2019 races
-the jump clearly did not work out for him but alpine also went to shit too. but if cyril hadn't left who knows. i think all of daniel's choices make sense honestly!!!! he just got very unlucky
-anyway their dynamic is insane and they deserve soooo many more fic than they have!!
-"it's probably a bit like being dumped by a girlfriend, but she hasn't moved out of the house yet." christian did eat with this one. unfortunately
-i love cyril but him being the one to actually complain about the pink mercedes feels very..... my wife is divorcing me so i'm gonna sue my neighbors over the property line
-"i hate those fucking pink cars" oh i need to gif that. i'll be watching and i'll just KNOW like yeah that needs to be in the next gifset
-i cant believe i havent mentioned it yet renault colors are the BEST daniel has ever looked i miss having yellow n black on the grid. maybe thats why alpine went to shit they gave up the best color combo they could have
e7:
-pierre redemption episode!!! i think this is one of the best episodes ever tbh. very cathartic movie plotline really ticks all the boxes
-HI PATRICK
-ok but the fact that dts NEVER covered alex's podiums w red bull after milking the shit out of his missed podiums is a hate crime to me personally
-onboards going through eau rouge are scary af.
-filled with rage at how christian horner chews up new drivers and spits them up (even though its all so predictable at this point. no one will ever live up to the golden boy)
-i remember seeing people complain that the williams family leaving wasn't given focus in dts, if anyone has any fun video essays about that i'd love to watch!
-i do take issue with will buxton saying "red bull can't admit they made a mistake (with alex)" i think red bull made a mistake with promoting ANYONE too early and expecting too much from them, but not in a pierre v alex way. neither of them were given enough time or support by red bull to flourish. and they lowkey admitted that recently lmao
-but it /is/ cathartic to know that red bull have tried to get alex back since then and he doesn't need his toxic ex in his life anymore no thanks ✌️
-i just know i'll LOVE watching this race in full
-they set up the suspense so well for the end of the race
-and it really is. if carlos had won this race with mclaren, his first win, how different would the trajectory of his career been
-ANYWAY theres something that just always gets me about men holding all their emotions in right until they cross the finish line and they finally allow themselves to feel the emotions. (recent example that made me SOB was theo when he won f2) i also love how much it clearly meant to the alphatauri guys in the garage. last time that happened was with seb for torro rosso yeah? so its clearly so so special
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some things you do for money and some you do for love love love
some blueberry pie life: chapter 9
Dean goes through hell then goes to it
I really believe that the first three seasons of Supernatural are a story of queer suicide. So I know what I'm writing and have written here is pretty dark. I'm really not trying to make it sad for kicks or something. I write fiction kinda like I write essays honestly; I've got some thesis here that I'm working on but I really do mean the first tag here. This is a fix-it (lol I promise). But I've always kinda believed that to fix something, you have to take careful, precise stock of where it's broken. And – well, they very much did kill Dean. They said, “yeah, the way John raised him, the belief that his life didn't matter, that he was only as good as how much he could look after Sam, killed him.” And then, later – once he was good with who he was, once he was learning to be so much beyond what John had aimed for, once he had started to envision a future (a queer future) for himself – they killed him again. So in order to unpack where that gets it wrong – and in order to grip him tight so as to save him again – we have to take a look at the first time.
title from Love Love Love by The Mountain Goats
author's/canon notes below
March, 1987
i was 10 or something when my dad took me to pawn my mom's engagement ring so this is mostly a fuck you to him.
this is my offering to the dean's ring is mary's ring discourse. in that it isn't .... but to him it is.
the fact that John gets ammo from Caleb is mentioned in 1.10
September, 1992
The Winchester Surprise story is from 14.11
November, 1994
Dean mentions the vending machine button trick in 15.16
May, 2007
This is dialogue from All Hell Breaks Loose part 1.
November, 1994
I maybe thought too much about why Dean always wears multiple layers and made myself sad about it.
The repeated "What am I supposed to do?" is dialogue also from AHBL2
May, 2007
The verses mentioned in the angel's internal process are 1 Samuel 8:10-18, 2 Samuel 12:19, Genesis 37:35, and 2 Samuel 18:33, using the NRSV translation.
We're doing just a bit of Plot again. But I'm very committed to the idea that the angels and demons (at least higher up) worked together to kill Dean and get him into Hell.
#some blueberry pie life#6396 words#season 2#2.22#all hell breaks loose#pre series dean winchester#gay dean winchester#1520 fix it#15.20 fix it#supernatural#spn#fanfic#spn fanfic#pre series#john winchester's a+ parenting#weechesters
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like always this is going to be Obviously a Spoiler Free Review of The Batman 2022 coz i don't want to spoil the movie for others but more than a Review this is about my feelings and how i felt after watching the film and it might be short or long af so if you want to skip this, then this is The perfect time to do it
First things first More over i can't believe that i really watched The Batman for Real like for Real ??? i was so excited for this film since years and now i finally watched it and i am about to talk about it here with y'all but i still cant beleive this i am in denial lol anyways Talking about the Film
This is the most Realistic Batman movie we are ever going to witness for a very long time and this is the most gayest live action Batman , Bruce Wayne character is so fucked flawed and he has gone mad shit crazy over in his head and he is not living in the real world , he is so very very very much disconnected to real world and we can underatand why he is behaving like that in the film but we can not relate to him , This version of Batman is very different from every other versions of batman we have seen so far and Matt Reeves is a Freaking Legend for designing him that way and i felt Robert Pattinson nailed the role and he was really cool af thru out the film in every damn scene .
Usually during my every film review its just me writing 3000 words long ass essay and screaming and begging y'all to watch movie i liked and enjoyed but this time i am not going to do that , The Batman ( 2022 ) is upto you , you can watch or you can skip it if you want bcoz this film is not for everyone
This Film feels like the most Non-Batman Movie that has been ever made coz of how different it is compared to remaining Batman Flicks but at the Same time this is also the most Batman Film of All Time if that makes any sense 👀 to y'all.
And Finally we got a director WHO FUCKING UNDERSTANDS BATMAN and knows what drives him and not only just that but he also respects the character and the original source and roots of the character and doesn't interfere much with it and this man got balls of steel or iron or even of fucking Vibranium coz of the he dealt with the movie and the way he designed the characters , set the tone and way he finished and made a very perfect Film at the end and having Said that The Batman movie has got many flaws here within itself but again it is perfect in its own way .
I am so very Happy for my guy Paul Dano 😭❤ Bcoz everyone who watched the movie are loving him and praising him so much and he deserves all that praise , love and admiration and he really killed it with his acting in the film i will not say this is his best performance coz i still think his performamce was so fucking magical and incredible and out of this world in There will be blood ( 2007 ) but i will Say his performance in The Batman is a very powerful performance , You can literally FEEL HIS PRESENCE IN EVERY FUCKING SECOND IN THE FILM to the point where it gets so freaking scary 😭 if you see the movie you will know what i mean , Riddler is C or D grade character in comics and i never really liked him and always felt like this is the time of character johhny sins would play in his porn parodies but Matt Reeves this genius mf picked a character like that and made him the whole ass villain in his very first Batman Instalment and casted Paul Dano in it and he nailed it
i am so proud of Robert Pattinson coz he is such a great actor and a Director's actor who gives what the director wants and respects the script and doesn't really mind even if other characters are written strongly than his character and doesn't mind even if those characters outshine him , he genuinely respects the craft and i love him very much for that , i used to hate him so fucking much when i saw him in those vampire films and i hated him so much back then that i wanted him to fail as an actor in hollywood coz of the how horrendous he acted in those films ( pls don't judge me it was long time and i was a small ass kid 😭 ) and now i love this weird lying piece of shit so fucking much and I'd take a bullet or two for him , i love him so much and i respect him and admire him a lot for his work , passion , dedication and the realistic charm that he brings in most of the characters he played after twilight and i am so very very very happy for him now he is a very big star now after The Batman and he has reached the big leagues in hollywood , i am so proud of him 😭💙
Zoë Kravitz really doesn't have a lot of screen time or impact in the film sadly :/ but i am not dissapointed coz i feel she's coming back again and this is not the last of her in the franchise , She did add lot of sexiness to the film with her character tho and Selina was really interesting sadly like i said before i felt i didn't get enough of her screen time 😭 and please don't attack me when i say this but i already love Jeffrey Wright's Jim gordan so much and i feel this is the best version of jim gordan we have ever got and if anything bad happens to him in the future films Matt reeves is going to have to deal with me, Andy Serkis also got less screen time but he was great with what he was given to play and broooooooo Colin Farrell is so damn hilarious as Oz 😭💀 I KNOW HE HAD SO MUCH FUN PLAYING THE CHARACTER and can't wait to see more of him in the future
My very only visible disappointment with the movie is the background score :/// , i am not saying it is bad but it could be more great imo
In Conclusion i just want to say The Batman is Great , please do watch it if you can in cinemas but don't expect what you usually expect from a batman flick , The Batman ( 2022 ) is different , Stylish and unique in its own way and this Mf Matt Reeves set a very painfully slow burning pace & tone to the film but if you are patient enough and can get thru it you might see his vision and enjoy the film so yeah The Batman is freaking great and cool , Do not miss it
having Said All of this Shit , This is just the fucking starters lmfaoo , we are yet to eat the Main course and Deserts ( i am talking about the The batman sequels duhhh) in the future and The Batman has set the perfect atmosphere for that , i could go on and on and on but that's it for now
#the batman#Thebatman#robert pattinson#the batman 2022#Batman#bruce Wayne#paul dano#riddler#zoe kravitz#selina kyle#hollywood#movies#comics#dceu#matt reeves#dc cinematic universe#Jeffrey Wright#Colin Farrell#films#actors#batfam#battinson#dc fandom#dceu fandom#dceu films#dc films#cinema
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Idk what possessed me to watch the bayverse movies on Easter but what are your thoughts on this… franchise?
Oh hon.
So it's interesting because as I've mentioned before, my first TF media was the first two Bay movies. They are, needless to say, not good movies. The first one could have been in the hands of another director, I think, and with a big tightening up of the script- it's not irredeemable in all regards (though it was never gonna be a masterpiece). From then on, they deteriorate significantly. Revenge of the Fallen has some of the worst pacing I've seen in a major blockbuster tbh. This is even without getting into their exhausting portrayals of the military and the racism in them and the horrendous treatment not only of female characters but IRL of women on set, e.g. Megan Fox. Dire shit, needless to say.
...huh. I had more thoughts than I thought I did. Let's cut this.
One thing I will say is that I don't have any problem with them for, you know, Nerd Reasons TM. I am not fussed that they are not "G1 but live action" and honestly, any interesting ideas they DO have tend to be the ones that are most wildly unique to the films. I have this thesis that by the time you get to TLK, they have functionally stopped being "Transformers" movies in terms of the broader franchise they originate from and just become their entire own thing and at least in the abstract I find it kind of weirdly fascinating to observe. Even in terms of genre they become hard to define. But they still have more LORE than I ever think they do, given that what makes them terrible is closely tied to them being the most commercially craven kind of blockbuster. It's... weird. Unfortunately not GOOD weird, but at least interesting to think about in terms of what an odd place in pop culture they have. (One day I have a video essay I would love to do about this. Do not hold your breath, I have wanted to do it for like 4 years already, but perhaps one day.) Anyway, I tire of people who act like the issue these movies have is that the characters aren't their G1 counterparts or it isn't "faithful" enough, these movies have so many issues and that just isn't one of them IMO.
The really strange double bind TF fandom finds itself in is that the Bayverse movies are why the entire franchise post-2007 exists. I am absolutely not kidding or being hyperbolic. That pre-Bayverse incarnation of the franchise was slowly fading out the way GI Joe has done (despite attempts to replicate the same kind of revival that the Bay TF movies managed), with everything mainline being cheaply imported anime, and the rapidly slowing sales of the then-new IDW comics. (Dreamwave looked like it was gonna help, but... well, that got gnarly fast, and IDW never ever reclaimed that initial burst of interest DW's launch did.) The toy sales never dipped as low as Joe, and it would have staggered on, but the Bayverse stuff was adrenaline STRAIGHT in the arm, nearly overnight.
These are some of the most successful movies of all time. Of ALL TIME. That is such a weird thing to say in 2022 but it's true. People went to see these movies. They made more money than small countries. They have not stuck in the public consciousness, but when they were current, they maintained momentum right til TLK, and even then there's a lot of discussion as to whether TLK was really a financial disappointment or if that was partly a cover for how toxic Bay had become to the brand. And you know, I went looking for academic film writing on them multiple times, because I was like, there MUST be some. These are some of the defining films of mainstream cinema of the last decade. Nope. Found one piece focused specifically on these movies. That's weird as hell to me. (For those wondering, it's called "Technomasculine Bodies and Vehicles of Desire: The Erotic Delirium of Michael Bay's Transformers" by D. Harlan Wilson.)
But the influence they had on EVERY OTHER subsequent depiction as, again, the most successful part of the TF franchise since G1 and possibly of all time? Minimal. TFP has some aesthetic similarities and a few lore/worldbuilding ones, but it's very surface level and even the aesthetic is only a little there. TFA had editorial mandates to Be Like The Movies (hence the main cast changes from pre-production to match characters in the movie) but they're all very token. Beyond that... it's an odd situation! Everything about Bayverse is fucking ODD.
All this is to say, the movies are weird in an interesting way, mostly bad in very boring ways, and not worth watching as cinema at all, but as a cultural object, I have thought about them a lot, NGL. It is hard to talk about the Bay movies because you just wind up down a conceptual rabbit hole. ...If you're me, anyway. Most people obviously just watch these movies and go "well that sucked", LMAO.
............I'll stop. Sorry. I get carried away on this topic sometimes ngl.
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This is just me being self-involved and rambling about my own fic, just ignore me
I have a lot of thoughts about my “Fuck Me, A. G. Nadir” AU and I’m putting them down here even though no one cares:
It’s not clear from the fic, but Annie went to Greendale like she does in canon but transferred after her freshman year on a journalism scholarship, which she says she wants to do in Investigative Journalism. Journalism always seemed like a good fit for Annie to me, I don’t get why the show abandoned that idea. Investigative journalist Annie makes more sense to me than FBI agent Annie.
She and Abed meet at her new college, although they’re not in the same year.
Abed didn’t go to college straight after high school, probably because the applications were like “write a 1,000 word essay on [topic]” and Abed wrote an excellent essay except it was 6,000 words about Batman so he didn’t get accepted. (I know very little about the US college application process, maybe this makes no sense but I don’t care) So he just spent two or three years or so just working on his book and helping out in the falafel shop, which his father was happy about because Abed wanted to major in creative writing and Gobi thought that would be useless. But then Abed’s first book is published and it’s pretty successful and Gobi changes his mind.
Exactly how successful are Abed’s books? Idk, it’s late 2000s/early 2010s and they all have queer protagonists so I’m not sure how mainstream they could get. It’s enough for Abed not to need a day job but not enough not to need a roommate, and not enough for anyone to care that much about his identity.
Shirley goes to Greendale same as in canon, so she and Annie know each other.
Pierce is still a fixture at Greendale but in this universe he sucks a little less because I said so. Think the Pierce who comforted Jeff when Michelle broke up with him or who found Sophie B. Hawkins for Britta.
Troy drops out of college halfway through his junior year. He goes back home but his parents are less than supportive. He meets Pierce randomly one day, Pierce has both his legs broken and his fancy wheelchair has stopped working, so Troy helps him get home and then fixes the wheelchair and some other things around Pierce’s house and when he mentions he’s basically homeless Pierce lets him stay, mainly because he’s just going through his “look at me now, dad” phase and his father would hate that for several reasons.
Pierce tells him about Greendale and Troy starts there next school year and gets his two-year degree in AC repair. He meets Shirley, who’s in her senior year, and her reaction to finding out Troy is gay is basically “Strictly speaking, the Bible condemns this level of friendsh… What do you mean your parents kicked you out?! There’s nothing wrong with you sweetie, God loves you and you’re adopted now, even though I’m obviously way too young to be your mother” *glares at anyone who tries to do the math*
I don’t know what happened to make Jeff decide to be a literary agent instead of a lawyer. Maybe his fake bachelor's didn’t work out. Maybe his father never left. Maybe he was sick one summer as a kid and spent a lot of time reading and decided more publishing houses should publish the books that he wants to read. But I think it could kind of work for him? He’d get to convince publishers to publish books they don’t want to publish and get the authors better terms than they want to give them. It could involve a lot of Winger speeches. (I don’t really know how literary agents work)
He and Britta met and some point and were friends with benefits for a while, then went their separate ways, but he never forgot about her. I like to think that one day he and Abed were celebrating the launch of one of Abed’s books and got Communication Studies drunk and he rambled about Britta. And then some years later when Troy introduces Abed to Britta, the name rings a bell and Abed makes sure that she and Jeff meet again.
So even when Troy and Abed haven’t met yet, their worlds are already pretty interconnected.
Also, all of Abed’s books have a character that’s basically Troy in some way. I just like the idea of Abed writing about Troy before he even meets him.
Abed’s book titles are references to the movies he makes in canon. I wanted them to just have the same names as the documentaries but we don’t actually know the names of most of them. Also I guess we don’t know if it was Abed who made the Pillows and Blankets documentary, but like… who else??
The fic takes place in spring 2015, so basically the end of season 6.
Abed is five years older than Troy here, which isn’t necessarily my headcanon for the show but I needed him to have several books out by the time Troy reads them.
List of Abed’s books:
Six Candles (2007)
The Third Bequest (2008)
Pillows and Blankets (2010)
Fly on the Wall (2012)
The Amnesiac (2013)
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The Narrative Challenge of MMOs
So I saw a post recently in the GW2 tag about how the narrative of Guild Wars is more communal vs individualistic compared to other fantasy games and, while I did like a lot of what the post said, I think it gave GW too much credit. A lot of what GW2 does is a direct result of it being an MMO and this got me thinking about the narrative challenges inherit to that.
I didn’t want to hijack their post to write about it, so here we are.
First off, hi my name is Griffin North. If you know me at all, you probably are familiar with my GW2 fan comic, Tora Steals Things (over at ToraStealsThings.com) or you know me as that random person who wrote an essay several months back about the dying tumblr fandom of GW2 that ironically blew up.
What a lot of you probably don’t know about me is that I studied Game Design for two years and have a Diploma in it. Part of what I studied was in fact narrative in games so this is where most of my knowledge on the subject comes from, consider this my disclaimer and take it for what it is.
Narrative in MMOs
Narrative in videogames is a huge topic but today I really want to talk about MMOs in general. One of the problems I saw with the post that inspired this was a comparison between Guild Wars and several fantasy games that are single player.
The demands between a single player game vs an MMO for narrative are different!
If you want to make an earnest study of Guild Wars compared to other games, it’s best to stay in the same ballpark: look at what WoW or what FFXIV are doing! That’s how you find differences! Unfortunately, I haven’t played WoW since 2007 and I haven’t even touched FFXIV so I can’t personally dive into those differences myself.
For the purpose of this essay, you can consider this as a case study of how Guild Wars 2 specifically deals with the narrative challenge of MMOs here (and why this leads to it feeling more communal as a story), but if anyone reading has anything to contribute on how other MMOs handle this I’d love to hear it!
Let’s talk about the main challenge of writing a story for an MMO
Say some new story content drops in game: you get a letter saying to go talk to a certain NPC on the map to progress the story. So you go do that only to find that said NPC is talking to a whole crowd of other players doing the exact same thing. Even as you talk to the NPC and he delivers his lines like he’s only talking to you, you know that isn’t the case -you’re not stupid after all.
Like it or not, this moment breaks the immersion of the story for a player, and this is the heart of the main issue MMOs contend with:
How do you make a player feel like the main character amongst a sea of main characters?
Game Designers want you as a player to feel special but this is immensely easier to do in a single player game than a multiplayer game. In an MMORPG, they have to deliver story that makes your character special while contending with the fact that as soon as you’re released into the world you’ll meet several other special characters played by other people. It’s really hard to feel like the magic hero with the master sword if everyone you see is also a magic hero with the master sword - get it?
How does Guild Wars handle this?
Heavy Use of Instancing
I don’t know how common this is now but when I first played Guild Wars 2, one of the things I really noticed was their heavy use of instancing when delivering story beats compared to other MMOs I’d played at the time. It’s not an elegant solution, you literally get torn out of the normal game world to play your own instance of it and that’s jarring, but it’s effective in that it allows you to be the main character of that instance. Even if you bring along friends, so long as you own the instance, your character is the one that speaks and is shown in cutscenes. Fairly simple solution, that.
The narrative immersion only really starts to break once you’re back out in the normal PvE maps with other players, and honestly there’s only so much the game can do about that.
To deal with that they contextualize the other players to justify them being there.
Guild Wars 2 narrative contextually allows space for other important player characters to exist because so much of it is organized as a war effort, and this does make a huge difference. Because you’re at war, those other players do not have to be you, the commander, to be significant. They can be various other members of the pact for example -very shiny, glittery disasters with special weapons pact members, but pact members all the same.
Guild Wars is definitely not unique in this approach though, and I think that’s obvious. World of Warcraft has you as a member of one of two different alliances at war as the game’s basic premise. I wouldn’t be surprised if FFXIV has some sort of war in it as well. It’s the easiest way to justify why these other heroes are running around in your adventure: you’re the special one, and they’re all a bunch of soldiers.
Don’t get me wrong, this doesn’t fully solve the whole breaking immersion of having a crowd of people talking to a story NPC, but this is one of the ways games like this combat the “everyone is the hero” problem.
If you’re following so far, this is why, by design, MMOs can’t be too individualistic
A war effort is a common backdrop to these kind of games because it easily justifies the multitude of players in it, but this also inevitably means that the story is going to be more communal in nature. You don’t/can’t fight a war alone.
There’s one other thing that Guild Wars does though, that makes it feel less individualistic as a narrative...
The Main Character is Special Adjacent
What I mean by this is that the main character is rarely the one the story is actually about. They’re still special, yes, but they’re special adjacent as in they’re always beside the actual special character for the story. Think about player rage about Trahearne or Kormir taking player credit and you’ll know what I’m talking about here.
The reason they do this is because it’s really hard to tell a good story about a character who’s basically a blank slate - we can’t know how the player characterizes them personally or what they’re even named. Characterize the commander too much and you risk alienating parts of your audience who view their character differently. Giving them too much of a character arc leads to the same problem. The solution then, is to allow the player to be special in SOME way but have the focus be on a different character that they CAN characterize and have grow.
Usually you’re special in how you relate to that character: you’re Trahearne’s Commander, you’re Aurene’s Champion, you’re the Boss of the various characters in Dragon’s Watch, etc. This is why the player character, the commander, doesn’t have as much growth or characterization compared to the rest of the cast.
The main character is special adjacent so that you can have your fully customized mmo character and still be the main character basically. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is true of other MMOs as well.
And this is why games like this feel less individualistic
It’s by design of how MMOs work -that’s really my point here. I love the world of Guild Wars 2 and how much of it feels like we’re fighting to save the world from ourselves or fighting nature (I see some parallels to real world shit like climate change here), but I do think it’s communal nature has more to do with it being an MMO than any real strength of its narrative.
Anyway, that’s all I got.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
#gw2#Guild Wars 2#guild wars story#I could honestly say more on this topic but damn if this ain't long already#I hope this was an interesting read at least
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On Being 13
by saintqueer
Date Written: July 2019
CW: brief mention of an eating disorder
I will be posting a series of old creative nonfiction essays I wrote in 2019-20 every Friday and tagging them #a saintqueer original. Some might be a little outdated but I'm getting my feet wet in the experience of sharing my own writing again. Hope you enjoy! My inbox is always open.
Your name is Jordan. It is 2006 and you just turned 13. You are officially a teenager. Not a preteen. Nor god-forbid a tween. You’re in eighth grade at middle school in the Bay Area suburbs and you just got your first cell phone. It’s a silver LG flip phone without a camera. Modern social media has been born but is not yet widespread. Myspace and AIM are still the name of the game. And your friend’s Top 8s are literally worth crying over. You buy songs you like on iTunes for 99 cents. Songs like Far Away by Nickelback and Jesus, Take the Wheel by Carrie Underwood. That is, until you wizen up and start using LimeWire in 2007. By that time, you’ll think your tastes much improved. You’ll illegally download songs like Buy U a Drank by T-Pain, Wait For You by Elliott Yamin, and everything Chris Brown puts out. Every single feeling you have is so large it’s like it has the potential to kill you. Weird shit is happening to your body. You started puberty early but it shows absolutely no sign of stopping. Things just seem to be getting weirder and more emotional. You cut your own side bangs and they look hella cool.
Ok, let’s pause there. I’m gonna go ahead and break the fourth wall here. Reader, I was planning on doing this entire piece as a kind of immersive second person experience. But. I. Just. Can’t. It’s too hard and writing about being 13 is difficult enough. I think that intro was enough to get you in the right head space of Jordan circa 2006-2007.
Over the last year, there has been more truthful explorations of the adolescent experience in media than ever before. With shows like Pen15 and Big Mouth and films like Eighth Grade, I feel like for the first time I’m starting to come to terms with my own adolescence. Being 13 is really fucking hard. And 13-year-olds get such a bad rap when, honestly, they’re just trying to do the best they can with all the shit they’ve been thrown.
I first felt compelled to write this piece when reading a section of a book from my favorite podcaster, Karen Kilgariff. Karen describes a lecture series she went to in which one of the presenters made a case in defense of 13 year olds. Karen writes that being 13 “is the hardest age you ever have to be because of all the chemicals and hormones constantly raging through your body. It’s like you’re being drugged and then woken up with speed on a daily basis. All social structure implodes and resets itself in a totally unfamiliar way. You’re simultaneously the oldest version of a child and the youngest version of an adult, so you don’t belong anywhere. You don’t get babied, and you don’t get respect.” Basically, it fucking sucks!!!
At 13, my eating disorder was already in full swing and my body-dysmorphia-riddled brain had no shortage of reasons for why my life would be so much better if I weighed 25 pounds less. They would weigh us in gym class, one by one, and assign us our BMI classification (mine was “overweight”). I was constantly dieting, with resounding approval from family and peers; starving my growing body of whole food groups and then binging. My school used to sell these pizza hot pocket things in plastic wrapping called pizza sticks (they were so DELICIOUS). One time, I found an unopened and still-warm pizza stick on the floor next to a garbage can. Wildly hungry from my meager carb-less lunch I picked it up off the floor and shoved it into my mouth, facing the wall, in as few bites as possible so no one would see. OFF THE FLOOR…OUTSIDE. I think it was on a pile of leaves and other trash (though unopened, it was slightly flattened on one side so it might have been stepped on?). This is actually the first time I’ve told anyone that I did that. Blogging is fun.
I was truly beginning to understand that my body was a commodity in society. I couldn’t take up space as a girl and to be beautiful was to be frail. My body was a sexual thing but I was not allowed to be a sexual being. Boys were the horny ones, not girls. But boy, was I! The thing was I couldn’t tell anyone, only the bathtub faucet could know. This was heightened all the more by my church and my faith. Youth group taught me the importance of dressing modestly and how we had to do everything within our power to help easily tempted boys remain sexually pure. I had so much shame that I had any kind of sexuality at all.
A majority of us wanted to fit in when we were 13. And I wanted it desperately. It’s not necessarily that I wanted to be cool, it’s more like I just wanted to belong. I wanted to have best friends. I wanted boys to have crushes on me. I wanted to be wanted. And it never happened for me. I didn’t develop deep lasting friendships until my late teens. I didn’t have my first kiss until I was 21, for god’s sake. My friends at 13 were changeable and excluding. I felt like I was constantly vying for their approval and as I entered high school in 2007, my social life became the center of my world.
Admittedly, high school felt much more enjoyable than middle school. I had established my place in the cool crowd and shirked academics. I stopped listening to Christian Rock and started listening to Lil Wayne and learning how to twerk. I cut class with a friend to straighten my hair with my hot pink straightener in Starbucks. I got in trouble with the cops for underage drinking. I got better at actually starving myself for a few days at a time instead of just dieting. I was significantly better at swearing. However, every single thing still felt like the biggest deal ever and it felt like it would always be that way.
Now, over a dozen years later, I hardly ever think about how it felt to be 13. I always forget that I “fell in love” with a boy named Alex at church summer camp who I saw from afar five times and talked to once for two minutes. It’s hard to believe now that I wrote his name in sharpie on my converse sneakers and sang I Drive Myself Crazy by *Nsync while crying and staring directly back at myself in the mirror.
This might seem unforgiving but I feel like the one redeemable thing about being 13 is that it doesn’t last forever. It ends. You grow and you change and you work through your trauma. If you’re lucky, you get better friends and you go to therapy and do some healing over ten years later by watching tv shows and movies that remind you of every painful feeling. Then you look back and laugh. You laugh at that school dance where Peter said he’d never, ever slow dance with you. You laugh at the school dance less than a year later where you grind provocatively on a dude you don’t know to Get Low by Lil Jon and the Ying Yang Twins. You laugh (hysterically, I might add) at eating that pizza stick off the floor. You laugh at smoking weed for the first time using a plastic water bottle your friend somehow turned into a shitty bong. You laugh at shoplifting your first thong from Ross. You laugh at your self-cut side bangs. You laugh and you laugh and you laugh and then you, finally, move on.
#a saintqueer original#creative nonfiction series#honestly this kind of made me cackle out loud reading for the first time in two years#especially that pizza hot pocket story hahahaha im losing it lol#i remember this was very fun to write two summers ago#i was dating a girl for the first time and just having a wild summer and it was so nice to look back and reflect on my adolescence#with humor rather than cringing#anyways hope y'all get a giggle out of this#eating disorders tw
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A (very long) list of all of my favorite AJJ lyrics because why not
Candy Cigarettes and Cap Guns (2005)
“Well my great grand-dad he died of cancer, from smoking too many cigarettes. But I must confess that he did quite profess to being the coolest motherfucker I ever met.”
“And cocaine is essentially vegan and they don't give a fuck anyway.”
“And I can't help but miss him even though he hit me everyday.”
“So fuck white people! (fuck white people!)”
“Heaven is a special place in hell where you can watch the people you hate get hurt.”
“You find me quite charming and I find it quite alarming ‘cause I'm gonna take your life. You find me quite charming and I find it quite alarming and I'm sad you won't be my wife.”
“What makes you think you can be so pretty? And what makes you think you can be so great? And what makes you think you can be so intelligent? And what makes you think you can be so far away?”
“What makes you think you can be so wonderful? And what makes you think you can be so keen? And what makes me think I can be so hurtful? And what makes me think I can be so mean?”
“Sometimes I feel like a cigarette, I'm wrapped in paper and I'm suffocating to death.”
“I don't want to be a cigarette anymore. I'll go to hell in my self death all day and night, so please just put me out.”
People Who Can Eat People Are The Luckiest People In The World (2007)
“Rejoice despite the fact this world will hurt you. Rejoice despite the fact this world will kill you. Rejoice despite the fact this world will tear you to shreds. Rejoice because you’re trying your best”
“I'm afraid to leave the house. I'm as timid as a mouse. I'm afraid if I go out I'll outwear my welcome. I'm not a courageous man. I don't have any big lasting plans. I'm too cowardly to take a stand, I want to keep my nose clean. And it's sad to know that we're not alone in this and it's sad to know that there's no honest way out. In this life we lead, we could conquer everything if we could just get the brave to get out of bed in the morning.”
“And I give a thank-you to my father for not raising me, and I give a finger to my step-father for beating me, and I give props to myself for achieving, and god damn I’m glad that I survived, and god damn I’m surprised that I survived.”
“So I looked into your eyes and I saw the reflection of a coward you and I both hate very much and then I grabbed the knife and I let the blood out of your throat and I smashed those tiny mirrors inside of your skull.”
“If I don’t go to hell when I die I might go to heaven, might go to heaven. But probably not.”
“Just happy times and half assed rhymes and mimes because mimes are dears, but most of all I want no more tears.”
“No more racism. No more discrimination. No more fat dumb fucks keeping people out of our nation.”
“We’re all one big band across this land and we should sing in tune. Let us grow the balls to break the walls, we’ve got to do it soon.”
“And I hope our candles flicker and die so that our hearts don’t burn to the ground.”
“First we were babies, we're birthing and dying. Then we were children, we're playing and crying. And then we're teenagers and smoking and fucking. But now we're all grown up and we're sadly sighing.”
“And your manic depression, it comes and it goes. Your parasympathetic nervous system reacts and you're in fight or flight mode.”
“How's the world so small when the world is so large? And what made the world? Could I please speak to who's in charge? Everything is real but it's also just as fake. From your daughter's birthday party to your grandmother's wake.”
“I've tried to know which words to sing so many times. I tried to know which chord to play and I tried to make it rhyme. And I tried to find the key that all good songs are in. And I tried to find that notes to make that great, resounding din.”
“There's someone in your head waiting to fucking strangle you.”
“I've got essays, I've got finals due. I have got lots and lots of problems.”
“Welcome to this world, have as much fun as you would like while helping others have as much fun as you're having. Be kind to those you love and be kind to those you don't but for God's sake you gotta be kind.”
Can’t Maintain (2009)
“I wanna pick up the pieces and plant them in the ground. When a tree grows there I want to chop that tree down. Build it into a boat and float it in a lake. And with dynamite I will explode the thing that makes me make mistakes.”
“Sometimes I get so lonesome I can't breathe. Sometimes I get so scared that I can't speak. Sometimes I get so worried I can't hear my heartbeat. Anyway…”
“I wanna tear out my heart and give it away to a person more deserving one day. If all I see is the worst in everything that's all I'm gonna get, that's all I'm gonna get, that's all I'm gonna get.”
“And people freak me out. People make me scared. People make me so damn self-aware.”
“I get bronchitis twice a year at least. My lungs aren't the way they should be. And I smoke more than a mother fuckin chimney. I declare war on my body.”
“You will cough up crows that peck my eyes and I will do nothing but go blind.”
“We could live there together or I'll live alone, less happy but I'll live... unfortunately.”
“And no one will know how I truly feel ‘cause I can no longer differentiate between what is fake and what is real. I don't know how I feel.”
“And I will always appreciate bad days like this because they grant me a point of reference in regards to my happiness.”
“If the bridge that I was driving over collapsed while I was driving over it that may not be such a bad thing. I would finally meet my maker, I could meet the great creator, and I'd punch him for teaching me how to sing.”
“Don't know if I believe in god but sometimes I pray because the way I was raised keeps me afraid.”
“I hope I can forgive me for having the nerve to exist. I hope someone can help me make some sense of this.”
“Sense and sensibility and peaceful productivity, a pretty girl with broken wings is all that I desire. But there's so much hostility in all the things surrounding me. The awful glow of enmity is trying to stop my shine. So I try to look inwardly at all the things inside of me but sodomy and buggery keep bubbling to the top.”
“I met you once over the phone, you sounded sad and you seemed alone. You left me but I never left you. I never had the chance to.”
“If you spend all your heart on something that has died you are not alive and that can't be your life.”
Knife Man (2011)
“There's no one to blame. People are just fucking mean.”
“So if I see a penny on the ground, I leave it alone or fucking flip it. I'm a straight white male in America. I've got all the luck I need.”
“I've got a pile of broken mirrors and I'm walking under ladders and I'll spill a ton of salt because to me that doesn't matter.”
“You were dead by the time that I had found you. Your blood was spilled on the couch where we had first kissed. So I carried you west to the sea so I could wash you. Your body felt just like a back pack.”
“I hate whiny, fucking songs like this but I can't afford a therapist. Sorry guys, here's a solo.”
“Some days I feel like I'm the weakest and others the strongest. These days are the longest and I've got the weirdest feeling about this and I wanna go away for a while.”
“I wish I had a bullet big enough to fucking kill the sun. I'm sick of songs about the summer.”
“When you have no one, you are no one. Like I said, I used to work at the people pound. All these no ones clumped together, just like a human lost and found. If they left them all be someones there wouldn't be enough to go around. It's better for us all us if there are no ones. And I knew a lot of no ones round that time. They used to all be someones until something took their life and all their someones disappeared while they're stuck there waiting in a line. And for them now, no one seems to have the time.”
“They say ambition is an enemy of weakness and greatness is an enemy of fame.When I pick up my guitar and I try to write a song, I think of what my mentor used to say… “Who fucking gives a rat's ass Steve, just write a love song. Cus they'll keep your belly full and your wallet lined. Don't bother these nice people with your sad sack songs. If you ask me I think they're just a waste of time.””
“Inspiration is the best friend of my sorrow and sorrow is the best friend of my drink. Well I want to look myself in the eye tomorrow but I'm too worried of what other folk's will think.”
“And the troubles in my heart need to get let out. And the troubles in my heart need to escape. And I never liked writing poetry and I never liked doing pottery and God knows that I never learned to paint. So every now and then, I'll sing sad songs. Cus it keeps my spirit light and my conscience clean. And if you don't care to hear I don't mind if you go out for some air. Cus I'm happy that you're happier than me.”
“So I wish I had a cigarette for every time a perfect stranger asked me for a cigarette but I wonder what a cigarette will really do to help that person out. I wish to God I had some spare change for every time a perfect stranger asked me for some spare change but there's not enough spare change in the world to make such an empty gesture count.”
“You can hope it gets better and you can follow your dreams but hope is for presidents and dreams are for people who are sleeping.”
“You don't have it any better and you don't have it any worse. You're an irreplaceable human soul with your own understanding of what it means to suffer and that’s a huge bummer.”
“I'm afraid of the way I live my life. I'm afraid of the way I don't. I'm afraid of the things that I want to do but I won't. I'm afraid of God. I'm afraid to believe and I'm afraid of all the loved ones that I've made leave. I'm afraid that my dog doesn't love me anymore. I'm afraid of the social laziness that let Kitty Genovese die. And I'm afraid of the mob mentality that makes otherwise normal people go blind. I'm afraid of the way that the world works and I'm afraid of the words in my notebooks. I'm afraid that you all know that I am a pervert.”
“It's harder to be yourself than it is to be anybody else. I wish I were a little less of a coward but the big red bird that lives under the city doesn't give a damn about me and it dies every night. So I bought a knife. I am a knife.”
Rompilation (2012)
“I used to be a spiderman, I used to be a cowboy from hell, but not anymore. Now I'm just a clam and I live inside this shell inside this shell I am. God damn I hate my brain.”
“I'll dip my brain in medicine so that you can stand to be with me.”
“Give me your tired, give me your tired, give me your poor. When our government acts like this, I wonder what World War II was for and the rest of the country hates us more and more. Lady Liberty is not a whore.”
“This is not a protest, it's a tortoise slowly pushing through a race. I hope the tortoise keeps its patience while the hare continues to pepper-spray its face.”
“There is no enemy, there's only people that also love their families and they're scared that they won't have enough long after they are deceased. But how much money do they need? Love turns into fear, and fear turns into greed. There is no enemy, there's only dummies that also love their families.”
“And this is not a phase, it's just a matter of time, with diligence and peacefulness, you will reach them and you will change their minds. If you stay there long enough, they'll start to see you.”
“And when you pushed my face in shit how could that have made you feel like a man or like a monster. It's your fault that I can't tell the difference.”
“In the evening I try songwriting. I'm self loathing, but I love singing. I'll try escaping these evil feelings but they keep coming, they keep coming…”
“So the baby's gonna have a daddy, that's wonderful news. He won't be the greatest parent but neither will you! Gotta get out while you can, otherwise you're screwed. Your legs are broken and your eyes are black and blue.”
“And smoking is like hiring a hitman for five dollars a day, and as cool as that is, I don't wanna keep dying this way.”
Christmas Island (2014)
“Shoot him again ‘cause I can see his soul dancing.”
“If you give it to me I’ll give it back much harder. If you treat me like a son, then I’ll treat you like a daughter. Everyone has a future, everyone has a soul, everyone has a heart, they have a mind, they have control.”
“The Coffin Dancer dances like he has something the prove because he does. He sleeps a couple hours in the morning, hates the morning when he wakes up.”
“The Coffin Dancer dances like he wants to make a friend, but he does not.”
“Getting naked and playing with guns. There's a gerbil in the microwave, a baseball bat in everyone. Sharing kisses and building a bomb. We'll set it off like Microsoft in '94.”
“McDonald's PlayPlace before the Xbox, cake frosting, sweet talking, bedroom wall, covered in knives, touching God, burning shit. We'll make a wish and take a trip to Future Town like our daddy did.”
“Have you ever wanted to be, have you ever wanted to see someone better in the mirror? Have you ever wanted to go, have you ever wanted to know somewhere greener, somewhere cleaner. I bet you got something beautiful in mind.”
“I can’t handle astounding works of beauty. I think I like my pretty pretty ugly but the beautiful soul I witnessed in that movie was an entirely different kind of overwhelming. It was a dog that won’t stop barking. Like a cut that never stops bleeding. Arizona sunsets in the early evening. Or a grown man inconsolably weeping.”
“I am the Kool-Aid stains on the mouth of a kid whose name is most likely Cody. He had a juice box for breakfast and he carries a stick that he most likely found in the alley. Cody doesn't have friends and his parents hate each other and he wants to find a better way to love his family and after school he hangs out in the abandoned house behind the Arby's.”
The Bible 2 (2016)
“Oh, I love you cause I love you cause I can.”
“On your last night at Saint Mary's you were way too intoxicated to breathe. So I used your ribs as ladders and I climbed up on your chest and I jumped up and down just like a trampoline.”
“Confused and rude. Such a special kind of way to be cruel.”
“If I were one of the things, I'd be american garbage. The most beautiful thing. The most beautiful american garbage you have ever seen.”
“No more shame, no more fear, no more dread.”
“And if you don't want to feel the feeling, no one should ever make you feel the feeling.”
“I thought I saw you before I knew who you were.”
“I just wanted to rage but all I got was tired”
“I showed him all the books that I was raised on. Your Madeleine L'Engle(s) and D'Aulaires' Mythologies.”
“And his eyes became a beacon, an LCD projector, broadcasting all my memories in a clear and vivid picture. His tongue became a staircase, his uvula - The knocker of an ornate wooden door that lead me straight into my future. His throat became a hallway with a thousand baby pictures and I became forgiveness, I transformed into the closure that I lost when I learned about the tragedy of all of us. I lost it when I learned about the tragedy of all of us.”
Good Luck Everybody (2019)
“If you don't give it to them they'll starve to death and that's alright.”
“I've got the normalization blues, this isn't normal, this isn't good.”
“I'm detached and I'm distracted, all keyed up but unproductive, vacillating between being all excited and disgusted and then dozing lackadaisically in this bubble where I've made my mental home. Connection's more important now than it ever was, but I'd rather be alone.”
“And when we talk about the president, we're either pissed off or we're giggling about an atrocity he's committing or some stupid shit he's tweeting. He's a symptom and a weapon of the evil men who really run the show. The ones who melt down human beings into money like a cruel Sorcerer's Stone.”
“This is the golden age of dickotry, probably the last golden age of anything, and the ugliest word in the English language is anthropocene. Good luck, everybody. Good luck.”
“But before that, you'll be a doormat, for every vicious narcissist in the world. Oh how they'll screw you, all up and over, then feed you silence for dessert.”
“I'm sorry that you have to have a body, filled with infection, one hundred scabs singing in unison, eyes and hands, sometimes bullets, uninvited, passing through us.”
“Oh to be awake for such a shitty dream. A bullet in the head of every decent thing.”
“The lake of dead black children that America created is getting fuller than the founding Fathers even wanted. The ghost of great America was underestimated and now it rages like a cold sore on the lip of this dumb nation. Again we've slipped inside a pit of absolute despair. That's where we live.”
“Rewarding our worst cruelty, they destroyed our shared reality, and now they upsell us our dignity like some fucked VIP package.”
“There is no absolute, these days there's no such thing as truth and you don't need to be a dick about it.”
“I'm a burnout and a fool, oblivious to all I do. I move my lips when I read and breathe with my mouth open, wide open. Timid, meek, and cruel, this is the best that I can do. I need to speak my truth, yet here I'm broken wide, wide open. My resentment, big and strong, and all the things that I can't change. They'll buckle me beneath the weight. I will drive myself insane with all the things that I can't change. I hate all the things that I can't change.”
“You're a loudmouth and a tool, and as it turns out I am too, and you don't need to be a dick about it.”
“Because I know that you know what I need more than me and I know that you need me more than that.”
“For all the pussies you grab and the children you lock up in prison, for all the rights you roll back and your constant stream of racism, for all the poison you drip in my ear, for all your ugly American fear. I wrote you this beautiful song called Psychic Warfare.”
“I hate you with all of my heart. I hate you with all of my art.”
“I went back to the desert, little Midwest in me, and now I am colder than I used to be. I live in a fortress the shape of my body, and now there's a coldness, and it's shaped like me. Now I don't suffer any more bullshit gladly. Even though everything's bullshit now, here in 2019 and you can bet it's gonna be a bunch of bullshit too out in sweet 2020 or whenever this album's released.”
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wait wait wait can you explain more how to be funny and what makes humor work preferably a la essay form if you’re up to it. I’m reading a comic and the jokes aren’t sticking so I’d love to be able to properly be able to figure out what makes some joeks works but others not so I articulate what I hate about it
This response got kinda long so i’m sticking it under a readmore. TL;DR: I don’t think I can tell you how to be funny and what makes comedy work, I don’t think anyone can tell you that. However, I can give you a bunch of advice and guiding questions on how to go about figuring out these answers for yourself
Honestly I don’t think that’s something I’m capable of doing this in any sort of reasonable amount of time. It’d either have to be something really short and really general like what I wrote in the rvb0 post or it’d have to be incredibly long and incredibly specific where I pick specific good and bad examples of comedy and break down what I think works and what I think doesn’t. It’d take a lot of slow and meticulous work I don’t really have the time for, and I’m also not sure how helpful it would be, because once again, comedy is super super subjective and I don’t want to risk overemphasizing my own tastes/general observations as any sort of gospel.
the best advice i can give you would be to try and properly figure out for yourself why these jokes aren’t sticking! because processing something as Funny is much more of an innate reaction than, like, engaging Cerebrally with Narrative Developments it can be much harder to actually realize why something works or doesn’t. I’m going to start by sticking in what I said in my original RVB0 post here in case anyone is reading this without context.
A rule of thumb I personally hold for comedy is that, when push comes to shove, more specific is always going to be more funny. The example I gave when trying to explain this was this:
saying two characters had awkward sex in a movie theater: funny
saying two characters had an awkward handjob in a cinemark: even funnier
saying two characters spent 54 minutes of 11:14's 1:26 runtime trying out some uncomfortably-angled hand stuff in the back of a dilapidated cinemark that lost funding halfway through retrofitting into a dinner theater: the funniest
The more specific a joke is, the more it relies on an in-depth understanding of the characters and world you’re dealing with and the more ‘realistic’ it feels within the context of your media. Especially with this kind of humor. When you’re joking with your friends, you don’t go for stock-humor that could be pulled out of a joke book, you go for the specific. You aim for the weak spots. If a set of jokes could be blindly transplanted into another world, onto another cast of characters, then it’s far too generic to be truly funny or memorable. I don’t think there’s a single joke in RVB0 where the humor of it hinged upon the characters or the setting.
Then there’s the issue of situational comedy and physical comedy. This is really where the humor being ‘tacked on’ shows the most. Once again, part of what makes actually solid comedy land properly is it feeling like a natural result of the world you have established. Real life is absurd and comical situations can be found even in the midst of some pretty grim context, and that’s why black comedy is successful, and why comedy shows are allowed to dip into heavier subject matter from time to time, or why dramas often search for levity in humor. It’s a natural part of being human to find humor in almost any situation. The key thing, though, once again, is finding it in the situation. Many of RVB0’s attempts at humor, once again, feel like they would be the exact same jokes when stripped from their context, and that’s almost never good. A pretty fundamental concept in both storytelling in general but particularly comedy writing is ‘setup and payoff’. No joke in RVB0 is a reward for a seemingly innocuous event in an earlier scene or for an overlooked piece of environmental design. The jokes pop in when there’s time for them in between all the exposition and fighting, and are gone as soon as they’re done. There’s no long term, underlying comedic throughline to give any sense of coherence or intent to the sense of humor the show is trying to establish. Every joke is an isolated one-off quip or one-liner, and it fails to engage the audience in a meaningful way.
When you see a joke that doesn’t land - try mentally rewriting it. Is there anything you could do to make it funny? Can you bring to mind any similar jokes from other pieces of media that you did like? How does the joke effect the pace of the story - is it an awkward and unnatural pause within the flow of events/dialogue? Is the joke well implemented - that is to say, regardless of how ‘objectively’ funny or unfunny the actual meat of the thing is, is it coming from the right source and directed at the right target? Does it add to your understanding of events/characters/setting, do nothing in this department, or does it detract from/contradict them? Is it immersion-breaking (and if so, is this intentional or meaningful?) or does it pull you deeper into the world you’re being shown?
Once you start asking these questions of both media you like and media you dislike you’ll start to recognize patterns in what lands and what doesn’t, and I don’t think they’re questions anyone else can really answer for you.
I think it also is a question of whether comedy is the intended final destination of a piece of media or just a step along the way. Media that exists solely as a vehicle for jokes is going to have comedy that looks very different than the comedy present in media that exists for heavy narrative purposes but includes moments of levity.
Here are two examples of shows I think are really good and are also about as different in concept, execution, and intent as humanly possible: phineas and ferb and breaking bad.
Breaking bad is probably the most emotionally taxing television experience I’ve had in my life. I mean this as a compliment. breaking bad is supposed to be grueling to watch. It also has jokes in it. the scenes that are funny server to really meaningfully increase the immersion, not break it, and they do this by bringing a very realistic sense of human interaction that grounds the high-stakes melodrama into something that looks a hell of a lot more like reality. There’s one scene in particular i think does just such a great job of exemplifying this. here we’ve got jesse having dinner with walt and his wife while they are, as always, fighting with each other viciously and creating such a horrible and suffocating miasma of tension over the entire narrative, and jesse is trying to break some of this tension very poorly.
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Then, in literally the complete opposite vein, you’ve got the phineas and ferb episode ‘lets take a quiz’ which i consider incredibly formative in the development of my sense of humor. The entire Bit of literally this whole episode is that they’re doing this terrible quiz with no rules that makes no sense and candace is trying to win but nobody knows how to play this game.
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Phineas and ferb is an episodic children’s cartoon that deals almost exclusively in unreality and the absurd, and so this kind of bit works here.
Saying ‘whats good comedy’ is really hard because it’s just like saying ‘whats good narrative’. There’s no one set of criteria; it boils down to what is the intention of your comedy, and how successfully were you able to act on these intentions?
This really got away from me sorry I am working on extremely little sleep i hope this helped even a little bit. My final piece of advice is: go watch hot fuzz. seriously. go watch hot fuzz (2007) dir. edgar wright and look at how the jokes in that movie are because theyre perfect and i love hot fuzz and it’s fucking funny
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I’m bored and deep in F1 related feelings thanks to my dad putting on ‘Rush’ OST in the morning so I thought I’ll spend my energy on writing a little essay on how it began... Feel free to ignore if you couldn’t care less about men racing fast cars. I love you anyways 💕
As a not-so patriotic Polish citizen, one my most prominent memories from early childhood days is waking up on the weekend to the sound of F1 cars courtesy of my dad watching Robert Kubica on the little tv set in my bedroom. I suppose it must’ve been sometime between 2007-2009. And the rest is history, as those interested surely know.
Then I got lured to the cinema to see ‘Rush’ (2013) and well... let’s just say that it’s bound to mean something if one starts crying during the opening scenes without having an ounce of knowledge about the story told. I fell in love with Niki Lauda then. His courage, bravery and strength became ideals I wanted to aspire to. I also fell in love with Formula 1 in its essence. There was something so captivating in those beautiful cars and fascinating men, desperate enough to die trying in order to achieve greatness. For me, aged 14, with probably too many issues, it was more than an inspiration.
On 29th of December 2013, Michael Schumacher had the terrible accident. For me it will always be the memory of sitting in front of the tv watching evening news and crying so hard that I could not see the screen because I could not believe it. A hero, a champion surely could not be defeated like that by stupid skiis, right? Well we all know how that went... And I’m still hoping but...
In 2014, I went to the first Grand Prix. I was happier than ever, excitedly watching the driver’s parade, stood on the plastic chairs. Snooping with my binoculars through the people on the grid. My heart stumbled when I spotted Niki, in the flesh, being a Merc executive. It was all too amazing to be real.
The first time that dream crashed was on 5th October 2014, and the aftermath of the Suzuka GP. It was the first time that I understood the reality of the sport and the stakes. It only got worse a year later when we were forced to say goodbye to Jules.
After that, I had my worse and better years, sometimes not caring about a single race just because I lost my passion along the way. But recently, last three seasons, it all came back. And now I think I get it. It’s not just charismatic men driving fast cars. It’s not just the technological innovations or the money involved. For me, it will always be the history. The spirit and bravery. The foolish and yet inspiring ability to put everything on the line for the promise of glory. It’s not always worth it. Everyone who knows me can tell that I was not fine when Bahrain unfolded a little over a month ago. And that it took me a while to recover even though it could’ve been so much worse... But no matter what happens. No matter who wins the race. No matter who I’m supporting, it always boils down to the same feeling. The goosebumps when the lights start going out one by one. The nervous knot in my stomach and hands shaking. The thrill when unexpected victory comes. It’s more than a distraction from daily life. Sometimes it’s everything that there is.
This is long and probably boring but I had to... because I feel like crying and I don’t even know why. Because I’ll never forget Suzuka, Spa or the day in May 2019 when Niki passed away. Because I like to hope that maybe one day this can be my world in practice too.
#formula 1#f1#just a little something to give my brain an outlet#I admit i teared up when I was writing it#no clue what that says about me#but yeah I just miss the boys already#and I wish I can go to the GP this year#because I really need it
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An essay or some thoughts on the art of Leaving September 2020.
I want to say some things about the artwork for Leaving, this is mostly because I am on this kick to make sure my thoughts on many subject involving Planning For Burial are archived somewhere, anyways I didn’t really mention the art much in the little booklet that came with the anniversary box set much at all besides saying there wasn’t a whole lot of art/photos too choose from for it.
So let me start by saying I’m so extremely happy with how the box set turned out, I was very worried while doing it because of what I had mentioned above and because the main reason, which is that I have never been 100% happy with any of the artwork for any of the physical editions of Leaving. This boxset I had my hands on the entire thing, I’m not slamming anyone for the work they did either, it’s just I wasn’t happy with aspects of the other editions.
For example, the original CD version for a few reasons, I wanted it in a size envelope closer to what the (continued) CD had come in, the bigger envelope just didn’t fit well anywhere with any of my media besides my 7”s, and it seemed the contents are always fumbling around in there. Second I didn’t realize until I had seen the final product in my hands that Dan had cropped much of the “background” of the front image to give it a black border. Now this also could’ve been fixed with better communication on both sides, but when it came down to it I was inexperienced with anyone else putting my music out and I was frankly just happy that someone cared enough to put their time, money and their own reputation on the line for it.
The cassette edition I did on Music Ruins Lives that came in the box with a spray painted black square was fine, it helped tie it to the minimalism of the original CD envelope. I also used some art work from the inserts of the CD. As time goes on I realized I could’ve done some sort of sticker to make it appear like the current LP box set, hindsight is 20/20 I guess. Looking back on it too I think my design eye wasn’t meeting with my technical know how at the time either.
And last the first LP edition that The Flenser put out in 2015, I actually love Niels artwork for it, the only problem is that it wasn’t the original. I had thought the original image in the most high resolution version has been lost thanks to a stolen laptop, the only copy I had for it just wasn’t going to work being blown up to fit the LP.
Fast forward to 2018, I had another hard drive die on me, so I started digging out other external drives and my very first laptop to back all of them up in multiple places, and there it was still in the photos of my old laptop the original high resolution image along with other variations of the photo, you may ask why I didn’t check that to begin with back in 2014/2015 when we were setting up the first edition of the LP, and the answer is I thought I had pretty much scrubbed the whole computer clean so I could just barely keep my recording set up working, but there it was still intact.
Now as for the artwork itself. It has no meaning, but I just immediately felt it was right for the photo of the album when I had accidentally made it, because that’s the thing I base a lot of what I do off of a feeling I may have and for whatever reason it just fit the vibe. An LP mailer from my basement floor that I had written the track listing of the album at whatever time on it just to get an idea for sequencing, because I often like to write things out. Later on I must’ve used that mailer to protect my back deck as I spray painted a fuzz pedal I had been working on, white and red, I had left the mailer outside to dry and while that happened a lite rain came through and mixed some of the white paint together with falling petals from cherry blossom tree in my backyard. Upon seeing it I began spraying both paints at the same time in order to get the right texture of pink, I then stood on a chair and used a cheap Cannon point and shoot to take the pictures and eventually picked the one that is on the cover. This was sometime in May 2008.
With some of the other art mainly being the organ with the portrait/painting of the boy resting on it. The organ is the one I own, I had bought it for $25 at a yard sale down the road from my 2nd home in New Jersey the one where I recorded “Wearing Sadness and Regret Upon Our Faces” and “Verse/Chorus/Verse”, I used it a lot on recordings around this time, and I had always kept that photo above the organ in the area I recorded. The photo of the boy a large digital print I believe, I had won it at an raffle for one of my ex-girlfriends friend who had recently gone into remission from cancer, the artist who did it was on of their friends. I got it sometime in 2006 or 2007 and sadly I don’t know who the artist is but it has always been part of PFB since that time, it currently hangs in the kitchen of my home.
Anyways, this was a long ramble, I’m not sure it means anything, and I’m not sure if I got an idea across. I just wanted to say some things about the art I guess/
Written sometime in late August/early September 2020.
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Other Experiences
Interviews with other women with Aspergers
Source: Aspergers Uk Facebook Community
I noticed while being on the group most of the participants were men backing up the statistics that majority of the Aspergers community are male. This backs up my own theory that women find it harder to get diagnosed as majority of what doctors associate as “Aspergers Characteristics” come from male representatives. A good point from somewhen else in the group suggested that it also comes from the fact women are better at masking.
First Interview
Below is an interview I conducted with a lovely lady called Lauren, it was a very interesting read and supported what I already believed to be true through my own experiences. Women with autism are rarely represented in the media and struggle to get diagnosis or support from others as they show different characteristics to the majority of the Aspergers community:
Q. When were you diagnosed with Aspergers?
A. Feb 2009 age 13 nearly 14
Q. Did you find it difficult to get the diagnosis?
(Quite often women with Aspergers are refused diagnosis as they don’t show what doctors perceive as “characteristics”)
A. it was difficult and took about 8 appointments to get a diagnosis as lot of signs/traits were interlinked with other conditions I already had diagnosed
Q. Name 3 things positive about your Aspergers
(Eg, it makes me more creative)
A. I'm strict with time (not been late once), very well organised and creative
Q. Do you feel there is enough positive female autism Representation in the media? If no, how do you think we can improve? If yes, please provide an example?
A. No I was diagnosed with mental health before I had my diagnosis and a lot of people say to women because you can do eye contact or you have empathy/show emotions that they are not autistic when they are. People need to remember women are naturally brought up to be more mature/grown up then men so we learn things sooner than men would.
Q. List 3 things you struggle with? What could nurotypical people do to help change this?
A. Going out to busy/crowded places, meeting new people/socialising with new people and changes especially to routine. Neurotypical people should be taught about autism in school so less bullying happens and more support can happen even simple things like structured routine or explaining something in a different way or putting it into a real life prospect.
Q. Is there anything else you would like to add?
A.People need to realise that autism is a invisible disability and there isn't a certain look like down syndrome. People also need to remember that autism is different in every person so just because one person with autism is aggressive it doesn't mean everyone is going to be aggressive. Finally to remember autism comes in different levels and severities so one person with autism could live independently with a little bit of support while another person with the same diagnosis might need 24 hour care and support
Second Interview
Another lovely lady called Sophie bravely answered two of the questions for me:
Q. Is there anything else you would like to add?
A. I feel autism is based more around men. The way this could be improved is if people were more aware that autism can affect both males and females
Q. Did you find it difficult to get the diagnosis?
A. I didnt actually get diagnosed until I was 19 but I went to John Parkes when I was younger as ny mum thought I was different but they only said I am left handed but use ny right hand so it was left at that until I was 19 and my mum started working in a school and realised that I did a lot of the things that an autistic child at the school did
Third Interview
Lastly was a very helpful interview by a lovely lady called Ebony. I felt the most connection with Ebonys answers, pretty much everything she said I could relate to, specifically the struggle our mothers had to get a diagnosis, the miss belief in diagnosis of you don’t fit the stereotypes and the frustration with the lack of positive female representation.
Q. When were you diagnosed with Aspergers?
A. I was diagnosed at 8/9 years old
Q. Did you find it difficult to get the diagnosis?
(Quite often women with Aspergers are refused diagnosis as they don’t show what doctors perceive as “characteristics”)
A. My mother found it difficult to get me an assessment to get diagnosed because I have a genetic condition which they wanted to overshadow autism under. Even though they’re totally unrelated. She fought in court for two years before I was granted a full assessment
Name 3 things positive about your Aspergers
(Eg, it makes me more creative)
3. Aspergers makes me more observant. Aspergers allows me to focus specifically on and learn things really easily with things which I am really interested in, in detail, which is really useful for my degree. And Aspergers makes it easy for me to process visual information
Q. Do you feel there is enough positive female autism Representation in the media? If no, how do you think we can improve? If yes, please provide an example?
A. Absolutely not. Autism seems to be very much represented by men with the very typical characteristics (Big bang theory and atypical prime examples). I think there needs to be more female influencers who are on the spectrum speaking about it and also in movies, using autistic female characters as the main character instead of male
Q. List 3 things you struggle with? What could nurotypical people do to help change this?
A. Change. I guess just not changing things would be helpful but I think that’s just the way of the world.
People thinking I’m not on the spectrum because I’m not good at maths or science and I don’t have a breakdown every two minutes. Not assuming the stereotypes are true in everyone. My very black and white way of thinking. Sometimes this gets in the way of being able to think perceptively, as hard as I try, it can be very hard to understand why something is the way it is.
Interview 4
Interview with a lady who would like to stay anonymous. She has a very interesting story and in the past has done lots of work studying Aspergers in women.
Q. When were you diagnosed with Aspergers?
A. 2007
Q. Did you find it difficult to get the diagnosis?
(Quite often women with Aspergers are refused diagnosis as they don’t show what doctors perceive as “characteristics”)
A. I had anxiety n depression off n on for years. Worked as a advocate an had an abusive partner and it became worse. I went to a gp after reading about the condition and was dismissed by the gp. I took anti depressants n they made me feel so bad. Weight gain, hailing beginning to fall out n head felt like a racing feeling. Went back n was referred for cbt n refused to take meds as suicidal thoughts listed as side affect, which was happening. Went for cbt the lady had an autistic son. She picked up on traits n did n assessment n referred me to psychologist. I think I was quite lucky in my journey, in terms of a diagnosis. My mum said she always knew but she was always on meds. I’m not a fan on medication - personally
Q. Name 3 things positive about your Aspergers
(Eg, it makes me more creative)
A.1. I stopped hating or comparing myself to neuro typical people and what they do so easily.
2. It was ok to be different and I wasn’t stupid
3. I started to see myself and my traits and enjoy being me. If that makes sense
Q. Do you feel there is enough positive female autism Representation in the media? If no, how do you think we can improve? If yes, please provide an example?
A. I think when people are shown autism they are often shown the extreme. I watched a programme on the bbc about people with asperges and I couldn’t c myself in any of them. People always think of Chris Packham but we too are all v different as are NTs. The only other female I know of is Susan Boyle who was exploited in some way. But I believe she’s had support now and on the up bless her
Q. List 3 things you struggle with? What could nurotypical people do to help change this?
A. Too many people
Eating around strangers
Bright lights
In terms of how Nts could help is tough. I’m used to not having help so can be hard saying I’ve got a disability n then dealing with people’s preconceptions or struggling without help. Mentor ship in terms of study n maybe work place could be good.
Interview 5
This interview is another who would like to be kept anonymous, their family is very judgmental of their diagnosis therefor they don’t openly disclose their name.
Q.When were you diagnosed with Aspergers?
A. I was diagnosed in 2013, aged 36
Q. Did you find it difficult to get the diagnosis?
(Quite often women with Aspergers are refused diagnosis as they don’t show what doctors perceive as “characteristics”)
A. I was fortunate in that the clinical psychologist who diagnosed me was a specialist in the female autustic phenotype, which made the diagnostic process easier.
Q. Name 3 things positive about your Aspergers
A. Three positive things about Asperger's:
I stand in solidarity with my autistic kids, and understand them better
The way I think makes me good at writing essays
I think autistic people find greater joy in small things than neurotypicals.
Q. Do you feel there is enough positive female autism Representation in the media? If no, how do you think we can improve? If yes, please provide an example?
A. Autism in the media is usually male, which influences women's ability to get diagnosed and get help. There is a small but persistent push my autustic women to make autistic women and girls more visible, and we need to keep building on that
Q. List 3 things you struggle with? What could nurotypical people do to help change this?
A. I struggle with practical things, like maintaining a routine, using public transport, and following directions. Neurotypicals can help by recognising female autism, and simply being kind
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THE COURAGE OF PROJECT
Then when you start a startup anywhere. That's why mice and rabbits are furry and elephants and hippos aren't.1 The very design of the average site in the late twentieth century. He got a 4x liquidation preference. Google, it's hard to get into grad school in math. Can we claim founders are better off as a result of this new trend. Where you live should make at most a couple percent difference. But investing later should also mean they have fewer losers.
They make something moderately appealing and have decent initial growth.2 If you major in math it will be whatever the startup can get from the first one to write a paper for school, his mother would tell him: find a way to turn a billion dollar industry into a fifty million dollar industry, so much the better, if all fifty million go to you. The classic yuppie worked for a small organization. Before us, most companies in the startup funding business. The best way to get a big idea can take roost.3 4 or 5 million. This essay grew out of something I wrote for myself to figure out how to increase their load factors. But you can also apply some force by focusing the discussion: by asking what specific questions they need answered to make up their minds. This plan collapsed under its own weight.4 Startups happened because technology started to change so fast that big companies could no longer keep a lid on the smaller ones.
The only place your judgement makes a difference is in the industry.5 People who do great work, and it's a bad sign when you have a special word for that. One of the exhilarating things about coming back to Cambridge every spring is walking through the streets at dusk, when you can see into the houses. If you have steep revenue growth, say over 6x a year, no matter how many good startups approach him. Recently we managed to recruit her to help us run YC when she's not busy with architectural projects.6 This works better when a startup has 3 founders than 2, and better when the leader of the company in later rounds. I'm not saying you can get away with zero self-discipline.
We're not a replacement for don't give up. What you should not do is rebel. But while series A rounds from VCs. Someone who's scrappy manages to be both threatening and undignified at the same world everyone else does, but notice some odd detail that's compellingly mysterious.7 Even Tim O'Reilly was wearing a suit, a sight so alien I couldn't parse it at first. They can't tell how smart you are.8 The story about Web 2. Maybe one day the most important thing is to be learned from whatever book on it happens to be closest. This essay is derived from a keynote at FOWA in October 2007. They'll decide later if they want to raise.9
Sometimes it reached the point of economic sadism: site owners assumed that the more pain they caused the user, the more benefit it must be to them. It's cities that compete, not countries.10 Kids are curious, but the best founders are certainly capable of it. But investors are so fickle that you can fix for a lot of time on work that interests you, and don't just refuse to. But you have to be an insider.11 A key ingredient in many projects, almost a project on its own, is to step onto an orthogonal vector. So ironically the original description of the Web 2. Back when it cost a lot to like I've done a few things, like intro it to my friends at Foundry who were investors in Service Metrics and understand this model I am also talking to my friend Mark Pincus who had an idea like this a few years ago.12 0 seemed to mean was something about democracy. We didn't have enough saved to live on. There is another reason founders don't ask themselves whether they're default alive or default dead.13
So most investors prefer, if they wanted, raise series A rounds. They're unable to raise more money, and precisely when you'll have to switch to plan B if plan A isn't working. That doesn't mean the investor says yes to everyone. Miss out on what? It's so cheap to start web startups that orders of magnitudes more will be started. Investors evaluate startups the way customers evaluate products, not the way bosses evaluate employees. The bust was as much an overreaction as the boom.14 Startups are undergoing the same transformation that technology does when it becomes cheaper.15 Another way to fly low is to give them something for free that competitors charge for. After all, a Web 2.16 He bought a suit.
Instead you'll be compelled to seek growth in other ways. They all knew their work like a piano player knows the keys. But consulting is far from free money. They say they're going to get eliminated. What does it mean, exactly? If investors were perfect judges, the two would require exactly the same skills. And to be both good and novel, an idea probably has to seem bad to most people, or someone writes a particularly interesting article, it will show up there. The mere existence of prep schools is proof of that.17 So far the complete list of messages I've picked up from cities is: wealth, style, hipness, physical attractiveness wouldn't have been a total immersion. Don't just do what they tell you to do. But advancing technology has made web startups so cheap that you really can get a portrait of the normal distribution of most applicant pools, it matters least to judge accurately in precisely the cases where judgement has the most effect—you won't take rejection so personally. If raising money is hard.
There is no sharp line between the two types of startup ideas: those that grow organically out of your own life, and those that you decide, from afar, are going to get rarer. While some VCs have technical backgrounds, I don't know enough to say, but it happens surprisingly rarely.18 Most subjects are taught in such a boring way that it's only by discipline that you can never safely treat fundraising as more than a startup that seems like it's going to stop.19 It sounds obvious to say that you should worry? One reason startups prefer series A rounds? When I was in high school either. If you feel you've been misjudged, you can do. Google. Of course, someone has to take money from people who are young but smart and driven can make more by starting their own companies after college instead of getting jobs, that will change what happens in college.
Notes
Though they are themselves typical users. But it takes to get good grades in them to private schools that in three months, a valuation. Giving away the razor and making more per customer makes it easier to get them to stay in a time machine.
Apple's early history are from an angel investment from a mediocre VC.
In the beginning.
Plus ca change. But on the other.
And that is exactly the point of a stock is its future earnings, you now get to go behind the scenes role in IPOs, which allowed banks and savings and loans to buy it despite having no evidence it's for sale.
However, it will seem dumb in 100 years. Digg is Slashdot with voting instead of blacklist.
Sofbot.
I write out loud can expose awkward parts.
I've become a so-called signalling risk.
Hint: the way they have because they couldn't afford a monitor.
And it's particularly damaging when these investors flake, because there was a new search engine is low. They have no connections, you'll find that with a wink, to take care of one's markets is ultimately just another way in which income is doled out by Mitch Kapor, is to raise money after Demo Day, there would be easy to discount, but I'm not against editing. As one very successful YC founder told me they like the one hand and the exercise of stock options than any preceding president, he tried to shift back. At three months we can't believe anyone would think twice before crossing him.
Progressive tax rates has a significant startup hub. He, like speculators, that alone could in principle 100,000 sestertii apiece for slaves learned in the early adopters you evolve the idea is crack. As we walked in, we love big juicy lumbar disc herniation as juicy except literally.
It's sometimes argued that we didn't, they thought at least accepted additions to the modern idea were proposed by Timothy Hart in 1964, two years, it was cooked up by the National Center for Education Statistics, about 28%. I've come to accept that investors don't like the bizarre consequences of this essay talks about programmers, but I know of no Jews moving there, and should in some ways First Round excluded their most successful startups are competitive like running, not the original text would in itself deserving. This is not whether it's good enough at obscuring tokens for this type are also several you can't even claim, like play in a city with few other startups, because time seems to pass. Please do not try to avoid that.
This kind of people starting normal companies too. If Ron Conway had been raised religious and then using growth rate to manufacture a perfect growth curve, etc, and then a block or so.
But it is to trick admissions officers. I meant. The mere possibility of being harsh to founders. As he is at fault, since 95% of the class of 2007 came from such schools.
I started doing research for this purpose are still, as they are now. There was no more unlikely than it would be easier to say that it is dishonest of the next round, that suits took over during a critical point in the usual standards for truth. Wittgenstein: The French Laundry in Napa Valley.
It wouldn't cut their overall returns tenfold, because they wanted, so the best ideas, they mean statistical distribution. The original Internet forums were not web sites but Usenet newsgroups.
A doctor friend warns that even this can give an inaccurate picture. At some point, when the problems you have no idea what's happening till they also influence one another directly through the window for years while they think they're just mentioning the possibility is that in Silicon Valley. I find hardest to get rich by creating wealth—wealth that, isn't it? Look at those goddamn fleas, they have less money, the big winners aren't all that matters, just as if you'd invested at a famous university who is highly regarded by his peers.
Compromising a server could cause such damage that ASPs that want to pound that message home. He, like arithmetic drills, instead of blacklist.
Thanks to Tim O'Reilly, Peter Norvig, and the guys at O'Reilly for inviting me to speak.
#automatically generated text#Markov chains#Paul Graham#Python#Patrick Mooney#ideas#startups#Pincus#liquidation#school#stock#sup#work#machine#li#money#math#yuppie#VCs#century#democracy#tax#interests#difference#plan#wink#investors#founder
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