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thedansemacabres · 4 months

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The Almost Lost Relationship of Adonis and Dionysus

[ID: An image of the seats at the Theater of Dionysus in Athens. The sun shines on the pale steps, illuminating them slightly. Beyond the stairs, there is nothing else in the theatre and it acts as an empty scene.]

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ADONIS IS KNOWN FOR BEING CAUGHT BETWEEN PERSEPHONE AND APHRODITE, and this eventually being the cause of his death—Artemis, Ares, Apollon, or perhaps all send a boar to gore Adonis and end the affair between him and Aphrodite. However, of course, there is always more to this story: that being the continuation, the romance of Adonis and Dionysus. This will serve as a small introduction to a relatively unknown aspect of Adonis’ mythology, especially in the perspective of Adonis representing infertile life compared to Dionysus’ fertility.

PANYASSIS, AND THEN PLATO

Apollodorus contains one of the earliest tellings of Adonis’ death from the 5th century poet Panyassis, who states that Adonis died twice—once when Persephone obtained him, and another when he was gored by a boar. However, continuing Panyassis’ fragment, Plato Comicus states that Adonis’ death was caused by Aphrodite and Dionysus, not Aphrodite and Persephone:

O Kinyras, king of the hairy-assed Cypriots, Your child is by nature most beautiful and most marvelous Of all humans, but two divinities will destroy him, She being rowed by secret oars, and he rowing them. (fr. 3)

By desiring and loving Adonis, Aphrodite and Dionysus later cause his demise. This is one of the earliest mentions of Adonis and Dionysus, whilst grim, does lead us slightly into the romance of Adonis and Dionysus. Another myth—or perhaps a continuation of this one—presents another tale, as recorded by Plutarch.

PLUTARCH’S FRAGMENT

Plutarch presents a differing story: that Dionysus fought with Aphrodite for Adonis and won. In discussing the ethics of food, particularly eating swine, he invokes this in a lost text written by Phanocles:

Εἰδὼς θεῖον Ἄδωνιν ὀρειφοίτης Διόνυσος ἥρπασεν, ἠγαθέην Κύπρον ἐποιχόμενος. Knowingly, mountain-roaming Dionysus carried away the divine Adonis, after approaching the Holy Cyprian with hostile purpose. Plutarch, Quaestiones Convivales

One of the many reasons he cites for pigs being less than ideal animals for consumption is that they gored Adonis—which, in hypothesis, could be a reason that some Aphrodisian cults avoided consuming pork, but this is merely my own thinking.

This fragment gives little context to the motives of Dionysus in this myth, the reaction of Aphrodite or Adonis. Despite this, the wording is of intrigue to me of several parts:

What does knowingly mean? The translation phrases it as Dionysus knowing, but knowing what? Or does this refer to Adonis knowing that he would be carried off—as in the original ancient Greek, it is placed as “knowing, divine Adonis.”

Adonis here is called a god, theos, which may refer to his apotheosis, which was of contention in ancient Greece.

“Hostile purpose”, ἐποιχόμενος, also refers to the passing of wine. So, instead of violence, he may have given Aphrodite wine in “exchange” for Adonis.

There is also something to be said of the similarity between Adonis being carried off with Dionysus carrying Ariadne away from Noxus. There were also contentions about the divinity of Ariadne, with some myths declaring her dying and another conflating her with Aphrodite—similarly to Adonis, who Plutarch mentioned previously could be identified with Dionysus.

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

As remarked in the Adonia in Context, Adonis’ divinity was a contested question—with some remarking him as nothing sacred, while others entreating him as a deity. I personally have come to understand him as divine, returning from the underworld, especially as he journeyed there with Persephone. That within itself—returning to and from the underworld—is no task for mortals, even if it was divinely sanctioned by Zeus. If he did die when he was first received by Persephone, does this imply a cycle of resurrection that eventually led to a state in between, or an odd sense of immortality?

There is also the notable comparison of Adonis and Dionysus mirroring Ariadne and Dionysus, in which they are taken by Dionysus and become his lovers. In my own practice, this does come into Adonis being in our modern terms in a polycule with the god. Fascinatingly, Ariadne’s own divinity was of debate, perhaps remarking her as a parallel to Adonis himself. There is certainly something to be said of Adonis being a sterile god with the fertility god Dionysus, continuing the paradox of Dionysus. Adonis represents the ancient Greek man that was infertile and as such did not mature into a proper member of the polis, and Dionysus is the great disrupter of the polis.

As a personal practice though, there is always the option for others to honour them as I do—as divine lovers—and in my personal practice, Dionysus is the one who eventually “wins” Adonis. And as someone extremely unconventional and a “failed” man in the eyes of my biological family, Adonis is the perfect comfort as the failed adult who succeeds into immortality.

References

Edmund P. Cueva, (1996). Plutarch’s Ariadne in Chariton’s Chaereas and Callirhoe. American Journal of Philology,

Jameson, M. H. (2019). 2. The asexuality of Dionysus. In Cornell University Press eBooks (pp. 44–64). https://doi.org/10.7591/9781501733680-007

Plutarch, Quaestiones Convivales, stephpage 612c. (n.d.). http://data.perseus.org/citations/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0007.tlg112.perseus-grc1:612c

Reitzammer, L. (2016). The Athenian Adonia in context: The Adonis Festival as cultural practice. https://muse.jhu.edu/book/45855

Seaford, R. (2006). Dionysos. Routledge.

#adonis deity #dionysus deity #dionysos deity #dionysus devotee #dionysus worship #aphrodite deity #aphrodite worship #hellenic pagan #hellenic polytheism #hellenic paganism #hellenic polytheist #helpol #dragonis.txt #witchcraft #pagan #witchblr #paganism #paganblr

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shadowess · 2 months

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#hatchetfield #hatchetverse #the lords in black #starkid #nightmare time #lords in black #the guy who didn't like musicals #pokey #pokey starkid #pokotho #paul matthews

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my-name-is-apollo · 2 months

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How do you think Hyacinthus was brought back to life? I've read that he was being accompanied by Athena, Aphrodite and Artemis on his way to heaven. Do you think these two goddesses played a role in his resurrection? And any thoughts when this happened? Soon after Hyacinthus' death or after a while?

This is something I don't have a very clear idea about, which means I like to I entertain multiple possibilities. I love the idea that it was ultimately Persephone who gave the assent for Hyacinthus' resurrection (because there is a version where she also spares Alcestis and sends her back). But what exactly led to that decision, I'm not sure. In the relief where Hyacinthus is being carried to heaven, he is also accompanied by Hades, Persephone, the Moirai and the Horae along with Artemis, Aphrodite and Athena (quite the procession). So, maybe Apollo convinced the Moirai (just like he had convinced them to postpone Admetus' death). Or maybe the goddesses were fed up with Apollo being emo and convinced Persephone (who was also fed up with Apollo being emo) to let Hyacinthus come back. I like both the scenarios. The second one a little bit more lol.

As to when this happened... well I don't think he got resurrected anytime soon after his death. Maybe after a few decades, or centuries. It could have happened after the Trojan war. The war was supposed to put an end to the age of heroes. So, maybe just before it truly and finally ended, Hyacinthus was brought back to life. Maybe Zeus allowed it as a reward and a consolation for Apollo. BUT it would also be very very interesting if Hyacinthus was already defied when the Trojan war happened and he had to see his lover become the enemy of Sparta. I think I might have a preference for the latter because first of all, can you imagine the drama?? And also because the hyacinthia, which celebrated the death and resurrection of Hyacinthus, is mentioned in Euripides' Helen. So if the festival was already established by that time, I think the apotheosis would have happened before the war started.

#Hyacinthus #it might have happened after Coronis #definitely after Cyrene #idk anything more cause timelines are hard #asks #anon

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littlesparklight · 1 year

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random question but do you have any headcanons on how the immortalized mortals/demigods would generally get along? (also I have to say this was absolutely prompted by your adonis series, which has left me unhinged & longing for more adonis - and immortal mortals in general - content 🙏)

(Hehe thank you, and hopefully there will be more, and by other people as well~)

Hmm, not exactly? I did do some vague things for Olympos Asleep - the Thebes royal family must be a tense mess when it comes to any- and everyone of them contra Dionysos. Even if you don't (like I did) decide to ignore "Harmonia and Kadmos eventually ends up in Elysium" and put them on Olympos instead, that still means you can have both Autonoe and Thyone/Semele on Olympos and Leukothea/Ino probably in Poseidon or Nereus' palace and come visit her sisters/family on Olympos.

The potential with Herakles/Adonis + actually leaning into Adonis as Persephone and Hades' adopted son is that, uh... Herakles has actually made himself a nuisance for the Underworld/Hades specifically several times (has even wounded him, once!) so it's like... does Adonis not know/has he forgiven him/does he think some of it is just funny/have they just agreed to Not Talk about it? For the hunting angle, though, I feel like you could probably make some connections between Adonis and Artemis' immortalized (not nymph) posse! I'm sure they'd all enjoy themselves and Adonis is presumably a respectful participant when he goes with them.

Talking of Artemis' girls, though (the Hyperborean maiden daughters of Boreas (Loxo, Hecaerge, Opis), Phylonoe, who's one of Tyndareus and Leda's daughters, potentially Iphigenia if you go with that version), I'd like to see more stuff with them + Artemis in general? Aside from Artemis' usually little girl nymph companions (so many forget most of the nymphs she runs with are little children!), these are some she's clearly chosen and has made eyes at her father to immortalize for her lol and they're just, what? hanging out together? fun times!

You can also have Spartan enclave with the Dioscuri + their wives, Phylonoe, Iphigenia, potentially Helen (and Menelaos, though they never seem to be immortalized on Olympos together; it's either Helen getting apotheosis, only Menelaos specifically going to Elysium, or Hera immortalizing them and sending them to Elysium...). Presumably they might get along with Herakles fine, since the Dioscuri have travelled with him + Herakles ousting Hippokoon and reinstating Tyndareos at Sparta..?

There's the potential of some real, at least initial awkwardness/antipathy/unhappiness from Ganymede against any of the immortalized humans/demigods who's taken part in attacking Troy; Herakles, Menelaos if he's on Olympos, Diomedes if he, too, when/if you acknowledge Athena did make him immortal, is on Olympos. Poor boy just can't get away from people who's attacked his home city post-war... (':

#asks #greek myth thoughts #this is getting long so we'll leave it here

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ao3feed-hadesgame · 1 year

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Son of Hell

by bladespark

The unthinkable has happened, and Patroclus is dead. Achilles is grief-maddened, and Zagreus knows that things are probably not going to go well for him, or for anyone Trojan. He's right, but it seems the fates aren't done with him yet, and death won't be an end, but a beginning.

Words: 2047, Chapters: 1/6, Language: English

Series: Part 2 of Son of Troy

Fandoms: Hades (Video Game 2018), The Iliad - Homer

Rating: Explicit

Warnings: Major Character Death

Categories: M/M

Characters: Achilles (Hades Video Game), Patroclus (Hades Video Game), Zagreus (Hades Video Game), Thanatos (Hades Video Game), Persephone (Hades Video Game)

Relationships: Achilles/Patroclus/Zagreus (Hades Video Game), Achilles/Zagreus (Hades Video Game), Patroclus/Zagreus (Hades Video Game), Achilles/Patroclus (Hades Video Game), Hint of Thanatos/Zagreus

Additional Tags: Grief/Mourning, Human Sacrifice, Graphic Description, Angst with a Happy Ending, apotheosis, Fate, Sex, Oral Sex, Anal Sex, Threesome - M/M/M, Power Dynamics

source https://archiveofourown.org/works/44880367

#Hades (Game)#fanfic #ao3feed #Hades

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nikos-dnd-quotes · 4 years

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GOOD GOD MAN

#d&d #d&d meme #apotheosis #latency: apotheosis #seph #persephone shimmerglade #july #Bards Making Choices

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pink-lemonade-rose · 5 years

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Being smitten by lightning is symbolic of the fiery deaths of Asclepius, Semele, and Heracles: it is an apotheosis. The comparison to Heracles is double: like the hero who was ignited by Zeus’ bolt and then adopted by Hera, our initiate is first struck by lightning and then ‘enters the bosom of the queen of the netherworld,’ which means adoption or at least nursing of the initiate by the goddess. Thus, in some gold tablets the transformative fiery purification of one’s nature from mortality is further ratified by the goddess’ acceptance, and the radical reformation of the initiate’s status is symbolically represented as his or her entrance into the holy meadow, after the death of his or her earthly body, of course.

Yulia Ustinova, Divine Mania: Alteration of Consciousness in Ancient Greece

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dandelion-turtle · 3 years

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Hyakinthos

Hyakinthos was a Spartan prince, most prominently known in Amyclae with a decent cult following. there are a couple of different people listed as being his parents, but the most popular is King Amyclus and Diomedes. if Amyclus was his father, that would also make Daphne, another of Apollo’s lovers, Hyakinthos’s sister. it seems like he would be quite simple, he has a relatively small story with one of the earliest written records from Hesiod. in this version there is no love rival, just an accident. written in the 7th century BC, it was merely one, albeit long, sentence.

”. . ((lacuna)) rich-tressed Diomede; and she bare Hyakinthos (Hyacinthus), the blameless one and strong . . ((lacuna)) whom, on a time Phoibos (Phoebus) [Apollon] himself slew unwittingly with a ruthless disk.”

however, the most famous version, and one that most will know, comes from Ovid’s Metamorphosis. written somewhere between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD, this sentence long story grew to be paragraphs long. in which Ovid describes the love Apollo and Hyakinthos have for each other — which was the ultimate demise for the young prince. with parts of it coming from the perspective of a mourning Apollo, Ovid writes how Hyakinthos was turned into a flower with “ai, ai” written on the petals to express Apollo’s sadness. and the version that we all have come to know including betrayal and jealous rage from Zephyros (the West Wind), is hinted at in Pausanias’ “Description of Greece”.

”[In the temple of Apollon at Amyklai (Amyclae) Nikias (Nicias) [painter fl. c. 320 B.C.], son of Nikomedes, has painted him [Hyakinthos (Hyacinthus)] in the very prime of youthful beauty, hinting at the love of Apollon for Hyakinthos of which legend tells . . . As for Zephyros (the West Wind), how Apollon unintentionally killed Hyakinthos, and the story of the flower, we must be content with the legends, although perhaps they are not true history.”

despite this seemingly clear-cut story, there’s a lot more than meets the eye with Hyakinthos. according to many historians the -nth part of his name is pre-Hellenic and comes from the Mycenaean era. another word like that would be Corinth — a pre-Greek polis that was destroyed and rebuilt. this leads many to believe that Hyakinthos was around BEFORE Apollo. he would have been a chthonic vegetation god — almost like the male equivalent to Persephone. this leads to a few different theories, but before I get to that, let me tell you the story of Hyakinthos as told by Ovid and Lucian’s “Dialogues of the Gods”. ═══════════════════════════

⊰ The Myth ⊱

Hyakinthos was a beautiful Spartan prince. he had many lovers, but the one that had eventually won his heart was Apollo. the god taught beautiful long-haired Hyakinthos how to play the lyre, how to use a bow and arrows, a little bit on prophecies, and gave him a swan chariot. the two were incredibly in love, but sadly, there was someone who didn’t like that. Zephyros, the west wind, was jealous for he too loved Hyakinthos. he had tried to woo him but it really was no match for Apollo. he watched the two men play again and again until he had eventually had enough of it. he ultimately created one of the most tragic love stories. like most days, Apollo and Hyakinthos were together, playing around and having mild competitions throwing a discus. Apollo wanted to show off for Hyakinthos so he could see just what a god could do. he threw a discus high into the air, clearing the clouds away and it disappeared into the sky. Hyakinthos wanted to impress his lover as well, so he chased after the discus laughing. Zephyros in a fit of rage at the two men enjoying themselves changed the course of the discus. as it came to land, the force was so strong that it bounced off the ground and smashed into Hyakinthos’s face. Apollo ran to his lover and tried every kind of medicine and healing he could think of. he even placed ambrosia on his lover’s lips but blood flowed freely from the wound. there was no way for him to stop a wound of Fate. in his despair, he turned Hyakinthos into a flower, but seeing that wasn’t good enough, he wrote his grief upon the petals. ═══════════════════════════

⊰ Symbolism From The Myth ⊱

Taking A Temple as mentioned before, it’s very likely that Hyakinthos was an older deity from the pre-hellenic period. something that many Greek writers did, was create a myth of how a deity began their worship in a specific place. we know the temple that Apollo was worshipped at in Amyclae was older than when his worship would have started. one theory behind this myth then, is how Apollo came to be worshipped over Hyakinthos at the temple and area; by killing the previous deity. it sounds sad, but it’s actually happened several times, and even with Apollo specifically. the most famous example I can think of would be at Delphi. originally the temple was in honor of the titan Gaia. Apollo came in valiantly and killed the Python (which is what gives Apollo’s priestesses their name) and inevitably took the temple over with his worship. what this doesn’t account for, is the fact Hyakinthos is still worshipped at the temple heavily, his and Apollo’s worship having mingled and being near inseparable. it is even said that upon his death and burial, Apollo said to give him (Hyakinthos) all offerings first. now, if you know a thing or two about Greek worship, the first portion of the offering was incredibly important, especially considering hero worship was probably closer to chthonic sacrifices in practice; though they were not considered to be ‘dead’. within my research so far, I have yet to find this happening somewhere else, but I will update this if I ever do. now all of this is unusual with the theory that this myth symbolizes one deity taking over. if that were the case, why continue to worship Hyakinthos? Duality some of you may not know this about me, but I am a sucker when it comes to duality, specifically with lovers. this myth may be a symbol for the growing season and harvest of the crops. while it may be a common motif, especially among the Greeks, I think it’s a sweet and somber story giving personification to an important aspect of Greek life. I also believe the duality is less about the exacts of what they rule over, but the way they were worshipped. the closest example I can think of also comes from Delphi with the duality between Apollo and Dionysos (who, shockingly enough, was the only other god historians believe was present during the Hyakinthia festival besides Apollo and Hyakinthos). as a hero, or simply for his chthonic aspect, the ritual and practice would have been far different than that for Apollo. while this isn’t exactly backed by anything I can find specific to duality, I personally feel a reason both Apollo and Hyakinthos were worshipped together in Amyclae is due to that duality between them. Hyakinthos would have been a chthonic deity probably for vegetation or agriculture, whereas Apollo here is a god of light (not the sun) representing life, health, and the ultimate grief. their worship in Amyclae was always together once Apollo was introduced (to some this hinted that they were possibly the same person representing a cycle, but most disagree with this theory). the duality is clearly a theme already for Apollo, and I think what happened at Delphi with Dionysos is the same for Amyclae and Hyakinthos. together they represent loss and mourning but also happiness and life — love. ═══════════════════════════

⊰ Hyakinthos Associations ⊱

okay, now that I have bored you all to death, let’s talk about some less heavy things. due to their worship being completely together, I would say that nearly anything related to Apollo can also be associated with Hyakinthos and vice versa. however, we love individuality in this house, so let’s talk about the things either associated with him through the various, limited texts we have and some UPG. Associations ➳ larkspurs/hyacinths ➳ swans ➳ bow and arrow ➳ summer! ➳ new spring growth ➳ chiton’s (they were offered to him by the women of Sparta) ➳ death ➳ rebirth/cycles ➳ chariot’s ➳ blood ➳ blue/purple/red colors ➳ discus (sorry) ➳ lavender ➳ lyre ➳ lapis lazuli ➳ amethyst ➳ black tourmaline ═══════════════════════════ Devotional Activities ➳ keeping a garden ➳ maybe even an indoor garden ➳ go to parks and feed the swans/birds ➳ archery ➳ sports ➳ making a chiton ➳ writing poems ➳ taking care of those around you ➳ growing larkspurs/hyacinths ➳ get a devotional journal ➳ create a playlist (sad songs for the most part) ➳ fall in love deeply ═══════════════════════════

⊰ Deity Or Divine Hero? ⊱

I don’t know if this question can be answered for a fact honestly. what we do know is that he was at least worshipped as a hero, that much can be said. anything further than that comes at a later time and from the outside perspective. a lot of ancient Greek writers didn’t write down certain things because they saw them as common knowledge. this doesn’t help us looking back now. what we can say, is that some of the offerings given to him were not common with hero worship and would have been reserved for the gods. this is according to Angeliki Petropoulou, a professor in ancient greek studies/religion, and the author of “Hyakinthos and Apollo of Amyklai: Identities and Cults. A Reconsideration of the Written Evidence” pages 153-161. Within this, she makes the argument that Hyakinthos has gone through ‘apotheosis’. this is the action of a mortal, usually a hero, becoming a god. note: ‘βουθυσία’ is a traditional oxen sacrifice.

“The βουθυσία for Hyakinthos, which is indicative of his new immortal status, should be placed on the third day too. Oxen are costly victims, the bull being the most “noble” sacrificial animal. After mourning for Hyakinthos’s death and making a propitiatory sacrifice at his tomb, they honoured him with a bull sacrificed as if to a god. Yet the geographical range in which he was regarded as god was rather circumscribed and did not spread beyond the borders of Lakedaimonia. The βουθυσία for Hyakinthos would have been instituted after the construction of the altar on which Apollo received sacrifices; for the only altar excavated, in an area filled with remnants of burnt sacrifices, is attributed to Apollo.”

so there you have it. most places will probably call him a hero, and that wouldn’t be wrong. others may call him a deity, which also isn’t wrong. I’ll tell you what I’m personally going to go with, and everyone can make their own decision based on the information listed through this post and the readings I’ll link at the bottom. no matter your conclusion, the relationship you have will be completely yours, and it’s ok! if anything, I encourage that over taking my word for it. ══════════════════════════ for me, I think I consider him a deity. I know that I heavily romanticize the story, and with Apollo being so near to my heart, him having a terrible love life hurts my soul. while I don’t exactly want to rewrite any myths, I won’t claim that they are married, I will say that I believe them to be happy. their worship in Amyclae was so intertwined and based completely around each other from the history we know, that, for me, it makes sense to also honor them together. I’ll leave you all on one more incredibly sad quote from Lucien’s “Dialogue of the Gods” (that I referenced from earlier).

”Apollon : Well, my loves never prosper; Daphne and Hyakinthos (Hyacinthus) were my great passions; she so detested me that being turned to a tree was more attractive than I; and him I killed with a quoit. Nothing is left me of them but wreaths of their leaves and flowers.”

it’s ok to cry, I do nearly every time I read that.

⊰ For Further Reading ⊱

➳Hyakinthos theoi ➳Apollo theoi ➳Hyakinthos Wiki ➳My Hellenic Research Google Drive this also contains the Sparta book I reference and a few others worth a read.

#mine #greek #greek gods #greek mythology #greek paganism #hellenism #pagan #apollo #hyakinthos #greek pagan #theoi

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thunder-birb-00 · 8 days

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Another Hive King! Paul brainrot post

(since the painkillers work)

The Hive King, Paul, dancing with each Hive member at least once. The poor man, trapped in his Nightmare Time called The Apotheosis, has been exposed to too many types of dance as a result of Pokey doing something, where he’d stick a type of dance to a type of person.

Who dances what style of dance? Up to anyone’s guesses, but generally, the more horny that fellow is on a regular basis (as in how they used to live probably), the more sensual that dance appears to be.

Excluding Pokey, who tends to confuse Paul by literally switching the dances and their intensity when HE’S in session.

thank you for reading this absolute rot (or riot, anything goes)

-Thunder

Edit: I love the tags XD hell yes (I greatly encourage yall to speak in the tags about the dance headcanons, get crazy)

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aziraphales-library · 3 years

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Hello I was wondering if anyone has any good omens fanfic recommendations for stories with a darker/more evil Crowley, one where he's trying to seduce Aziraphale on purpose to make him fall or keep him for himself etc. (like a hades/Persephone dynamic even almost) Would like it to have a happy ending though. Thank you!!

I think this might interest you:

Apotheosis [E] by wargoddess9 (hikaru9), Z A Dusk (snakeandmoon)

It’s 1955 and Father Aziraphale Fell has been called to preside over an exorcism in the tiny village of Crosswell. He’s confident in his faith and abilities … but something is wrong. The demon is unusually strong, and Aziraphale can’t shake the feeling that something has accompanied him home from the ritual. Haunted by a dark presence that knows his every deepest desire, will Father Fell stay true to his calling as a priest, or will he let himself succumb to temptation, and freedom?

A story of possession, desire, and casting off the shackles of both Heaven and Hell.

Darkest Before the Dawn [E] by Phoenix_Soar

It stands to reason that the Serpent of Eden - the original tempter - is a Demon of Lust. When he comes across a very interesting Angel in the Garden, it is not long before he decides that he absolutely must have him.

And if that means planting little seeds of doubt and desire in Aziraphale’s mind and body, Crowley doesn’t mind as long as he gets to reap the rewards. (And they are bountiful, indeed.)

The demon inside [E] by UnproblematicMe

After the apocalypse that wasn't, Crowley has the luxury to spend as much time with Aziraphale as he wants. But the new proximity stokes old feelings he finds harder to control every day.

Lies for Rent [E] by WhatButAVillain

Crowley has a secret. He's not actually Crowley. There is no Crowley. He is in fact Satan, Lucifer. And he's been planning to make this angel Fall for centuries. Too bad he never meant to fall in love with him.

And a search tag with Dark Crowley

Please mind the tags!

~Mod N

#dark crowley #adult omens #ineffable husbands #good omens #darker themes #asks #anon #mod n #mind the tags

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shadowess · 2 months

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Chapters: 2/? Fandom: Hatchetfield Universe - Team StarKid Rating: Explicit Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Relationships: Paul Matthews/Pokey | Pokotho, Ted Spankoffski/Tinky | T'noy Karaxis, Ted Spankoffski/Bill Woodward Characters: Paul Matthews, Pokey | Pokotho, Ted Spankoffski, Bill Woodward, Charlotte Sweetly, Emma Perkins, Henry Hidgens, Mr. Davidson (The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals), Zoey (The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals), Tinky | T'noy Karaxis, Wiggly | Wiggog Y'rath, Nibbly | Nibblenephim, Blinky | Bliklotep, Webby (Black Friday), John McNamara, Original Male Character(s), Wilbur Cross Additional Tags: Post-Apotheosis (The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals), Apocalypse, The Lords in Black (Hatchetfield), Emotional Manipulation, Unrequited Love, Possession, Eldritch, Time Travel, eldritch magic, It's all Tinky's fault, Dimension Travel, no beta we die like max jagerman, Duel-Ego Shenanigans, Life force shenanigans, Buckle up people, seriously, the authors regret and do not regret everything, Basically one au where more people have the Touch of the Gift, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Timeline Shenanigans, Dubious Consent, Heavy Petting, Kissing, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Manhandling, Other Additional Tags to Be Added, Autistic Paul Matthews, Good Sibling Ted Spankoffski, BAMF Ted Spankoffski, Paul is a unreliable narrator Series: Part 1 of Timelines Summary:

To be loved by a being beyond human isn't as grand as it seems. To be held in an embrace you cannot escape from, to be kissed with lips you cannot resist. Invisible chains bind Paul so, a grandiose cage of silver keeping the self within like a little bird. Where would he go? Where CAN he go? Not a soul breathes in the way they should, and certainly no person who yearns to see him dead exists. Even if he had no control over the acts The Singular Voice directs him to perform. Pleading, crying, begging… they all fall on the deaf ears of the god that can hear all sounds, but only so desires the sound of his own voice. What can do any good on a “man” like Pokotho himself? Could one possibly call him a man?

Because, despite the proclamation of his drive, his reasons for the Apotheosis… the blue god conceals a burning love for Paul.

And he just had to be Uncompromising.

#paul x pokey #pokey x paul #the guy who didn't like musicals #tgwdlm #hatchetfield #team starkid #hatchetverse

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highladyluck · 3 years

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“Magic Dagger Curse Is My Middle Name” & Human Evil in Wheel of Time

Part 2 of a series of essays on the theme “Tuon is Mat’s Replacement Shadar Logoth Dagger”. (Part 1 was “Stealing Is The Way to Mat Cauthon’s Heart”.)

This discusses the many parallels Tuon has to Mat’s dagger on a symbolic level, covering both her and her role as leader of Seanchan. But mostly, I talk an extraordinary amount about how the Shaido, Whitecloaks, and Seanchan reflect the archetypal in-universe human evil of Shadar Logoth.

Magic Dagger Curse Is My Middle Name

Tuon Athaem Kore Paendrag (now Fortuona Athaem Devi Paendrag) has a lot of names, and I'd found puns or references in most of them. There's the "Lady Luck" pun of "Empress Fortuona". There's the very appropriate "Kore" (Persephone's and Tuon's pre-kidnapping moniker, meaning "Maiden") for a girl who gets kidnapped and dragged through both the human underworld (a circus, and a dive bar that's literally called a hell) and the death-related underworld (a literal ghost town full of ghosts, and the hell of guerilla warfare). There's "Devi", a reference to divinity, which replaces "Kore". Paendrag is of course an Arthurian legend reference.

But the one name I never quite understood was her only other permanent name- "Athaem". The 13th Depository Blog suggests it was meant to evoke both "athame" - a knife or dagger used in magic rituals - and "anathema" - a curse, especially one that exiles someone. Go on, let that sink in. Tuon's middle name is "Magic Dagger Curse". Tuon "Magic Dagger Curse" Paendrag. Fortuona "Magic Dagger Curse" Paendrag. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH THAT TUON'S ACTUAL MIDDLE NAME HAS ACTUALLY BEEN "MAGIC DAGGER CURSE" THIS ENTIRE TIME.

Basically that's all I actually need to say here to prove that Tuon is the symbolic return of Mat's sexy cursed magic dagger that isolates the bearer via paranoia and suspicion, but let's throw in some of the other parallels just for fun and so you have time to recover from the psychic damage I just dealt you. There's some fun ones just around rubies specifically and the color red.

The Shadar Logoth dagger has a large dark ruby on it, the size of Mat's thumbnail. Mat estimates it would buy a dozen farms back home, and when Mat first meets Tuon, he notices she's 'wearing a fortune in rubies'. Also, before she becomes Empress, Tuon's signature color is red; she's got red fingernails, red and a very dark green are the imperial colors as seen on the Deathwatch guards, she buys a lot of red silk in Jurador, and presumably the roses in the Raven and Roses imperial sign are red, as she treasures Mat's present of red silk rosebuds. (Interestingly, she starts going more blue once she becomes Empress- I'm thinking specifically of the blue nails and dress she has when she declares maritime Ebou Dar her capital.)

Tuon also has other physical similarities to edged weapons in general, and the dagger specifically. Like the dagger, she looks ornamental but could absolutely kill you. Mat describes her hands as "bladed like an ax" when she strikes a footpad in the throat to save him. She's also sharp, in the sense of being very intelligent and canny. Also, she could learn to channel, and in being a sul'dam is a conduit for magic, so she fits that aspect of the dagger as well. And, last but not least, like the dagger, Tuon is a fascinating and deadly artifact of a powerful civilization that embraces a uniquely human form of evil.

Shadar Logoth as Ultimate Human Evil

In the books, Shadar Logoth is our loadstone for what is described as a specifically human kind of evil, separate from the absolute, somewhat abstracted "evil for evil's sake" that is the province of the Dark One. The Dark One's ideology as practiced by humans ends up being nihilism, or rather, self-interested nihilism. (Ishamael isn't a pure nihilist, he's ok with getting worldly power while there's still a world.) In contrast, Shadar Logoth's downfall is a kind of corruption; evil things done in the name of, and for the sake of, good things. There are other cultures that do that, of course, but Shadar Logoth is the purest example of 'the ends justify the means', since their 'end' was fighting the Dark One.

"The victory of the Light is all. That was the battlecry Mordeth gave them, and the men of Aridhol shouted it while their deeds abandoned the Light. [...] No enemy had come to Aridhol but Aridhol. Suspicion and hate had given birth to something that fed on that which created it, something locked in the bedrock on which the city stood." -Moiraine, The Eye of the World

The goal of opposing the Dark One (an abstract idea of evil) at any cost led them to turn on and destroy not just their allies but ultimately each other.

Mat's Shadar Logoth dagger is a part of Shadar Logoth that has most of the powers of the whole. When carried by an individual, it can brainwash, induce (semi-justified) paranoia, kill via corruption, and infect others. These are all powers associated with Aridhol/Shadar Logoth. About the only thing the dagger can't do that we see other elements of Shadar Logoth do is shapechange or snatch bodies (#JustMordethThings) and move semi-instinctually on its own (like Mashadar). Shadar Logoth is established as Peak Human Evil, an evil so archetypal it has undergone a sort of dark apotheosis and become both a physical and metaphysical force.

Because it is so archetypal, we should expect to see aspects of it reflected in other Randland cultures that are antagonistic to our heroes, but which are not explicitly pledged to the Dark One. We should also expect to see the same part to whole dynamic in those cultures' leaders. Rand is a great example of this part-to-whole dynamic; as the Dragon Reborn who is 'one with the land', he struggles against increasing paranoia and self-hatred, which leads him to act as his own antagonist for much of the series, even as he explicitly fights against the Dark One. It's the Shadar Logoth struggle writ large. Therefore, the leader of a corrupted, Shadar Logoth-esque culture will be a powerful and faithful representative of the traits of that culture; you could say they are the purest expression of that culture.

This is a tenet of Robert Jordan's worldbuilding and narrative, and applies to more than just the antagonist leaders; protagonist leaders also stand in practically and symbolically for their culture or group. Over the course of the series, nations and groups end up led by the 'best' people for the job, where 'best' is some combination of 'most representative', 'most competent', and/or 'best adhering to their culture's ethical tenets' (which often happen to be our protagonists). This has the possibly unintended/unconscious effect of justifying autocracy, monarchy, etc in-world because it's all adhering to aristocracy, 'rule by the best', where 'best' is rather culturally relative. It's also an artifact in-universe of the world moving to a wartime footing; anyone who isn't the best person for the job gets tossed out of the way in the name of prepping for Tarmon Gai'don, by some combination of The Will of The Pattern as well as actual effort on the part of our heroes.

On a more meta level, Robert Jordan's choice to use third person limited points of view means we get a lot of POV characters who are very embedded in their cultures and serve as an immersive cultural crash course for the reader. They tend to be either main or secondary characters who are movers and shakers in the plot (justifying the time we spend in their heads) or there to provide an outsider reaction to main or secondary characters (again, justifying the time we spend in their heads.) Robert Jordan's writing is concerned with the use, abuse, and fluctuations of power, but it's worth noting that he doesn't give us POVs of characters who are structurally and permanently without power.

POV characters often have moments of powerlessness, either in the beginning of their narratives or at the end, but if you happen to be a WoT character who never had power and never will, RJ isn't interested in showing us the inside of your head. For example, we don't ever get a POV from an ordinary da'covale who spends the entire series out of control of their own destiny, even though that could be a very powerful outsider perspective. Instead, we get POVs from sojhin, who are movers and shakers in their own right. (These are great POVs--Karede's POV in chapter 36 of KOD is maybe my favorite of the entire series, it's a work of art--but again, there's a bias here in who we observe observing.) In a series where people bemoan or celebrate being constrained by fate and consciously question if they have free will, we somehow don't hear from those who have never had worldly power; we only hear from those who do, or once did.

(I find this disappointing, and it's one of the reasons I find it difficult to recommend the Wheel of Time books- which are obviously deeply personally significant to me, and which I find fun, interesting, and more often than not, well-written- without caveats. The series is so obviously about power and choice and the ways they influence each other, and uses third person limited POV so skillfully, that it is surprising and disturbing to me that we are not exposed directly to the point of view of those who have been permanently and structurally deprived of power. We miss an opportunity to engage with the core themes on that level, and also uncover an authorial bias that hasn't aged very well and which makes me look at some of RJ's other choices with a more jaundiced eye. I believe WoT would have been stronger and richer thematically if it had grappled directly with the realities and perspectives of those who remained powerless throughout the events of the series. And whether it was an unconscious or deliberate choice to leave out those perspectives, not having them there lessens my trust and acceptance of Robert Jordan's takes on power and choice. But I digress!)

Heirs of Shadar Logoth: The Shaido

So, there are other antagonist cultures that we spend a lot of time with but which are not explicitly allied with the Dark One (though we are always shown their leaders being subject to the Dark One's influence, through their advisors and high-ranking coworkers, who are Darkfriend characters that have positions of structural power and influence.) Overall, the Shadar Logoth archetype means we are looking for structural corruption, fear, hatred, and the cultural belief that the ends justify the means. In-universe, that's what human evil looks like, and we expect to find it in our secondary antagonists.

So let's take a look at the Shaido, who are attempting to recapture a glorious (fictional) past by imposing a corrupted version of their original values on others; the Whitecloaks, who spread authoritative dehumanization and bigotry in the name of order and righteousness; and the Seanchan, who have the dubious distinction of doing *both*, which is why they win the door prize for Most Problematic Antagonist Who Isn't Literally Allied With The Dark One.

The Shaido are an example of a corrupted culture that imposes its corruption on others, especially others that do not meaningfully consent to be assimilated. Their corruption starts with suspicion and fear and leads to brainwashing; they choose to believe a lie because it is more palatable than the truth, and because they fear becoming powerless and losing their cultural identity. They and the Aiel that joined them cannot accept Rand's truth bomb about the origins of the Aiel as pacifists. It's an idea so counter to modern Aiel self-image and culture that the secret was carefully hidden and used as a test of character for Aiel leaders.

In the test, the knowledge that they had betrayed their original ideals to survive was presented in the original emotional and logistical contexts, which may have helped the Aiel who went through the test survive learning about it; it's easier to empathize and overcome fear and disgust if you know why people made the decisions they did. To survive, and to self-govern, the honor-bound Aiel leadership has learned to forgive themselves for their corruption, while not losing the lessons they learned from it, and empathize with people almost entirely unlike themselves. (How effective are they at that? Your mileage may vary.)

Normally, only those who could accept the information could reach the highest leadership roles. Sevanna, whom the Shaido exodus coalesces under after the death of Couladin, is the only Wise One who didn't go through that testing process (she got in on a technicality), which makes her uniquely qualified to lead the group that can't accept this information. Like that group, she lacks humility or the ability to accept unpleasant truths; however, she's self-confident, politically skilled, culturally competent, and has a clear vision for her people, which are the other qualities that the Aiel select for in their leaders. (I cannot believe that today I woke up and said nice things about Sevanna!)

She's presented as somewhat 'corrupted' by wetlander ways, greedy for wealth and power, but I think it's more that she's off the leash of strict Aiel morality; she goes on a reign of terror, taking more than she needs of any resource, and capturing non-Aiel and keeping them as permanent gai'shain. This is clearly slavery in a more modern sense. The Aiel proper have a sort of ancient-style slavery, based on taking prisoners of war, that is time-bound, highly regulated, and that everybody more or less consents to by living in that society. (I say more-or-less; not sure your average civilian Aiel precisely consents the way a warrior might consent, but then again, everyone in Aiel society is a little bit of a warrior.) Sevanna's unconsenting, permanent, non-Aiel gai'shain are a clear violation of all of these tenets, and resemble the bodysnatching and invasive nature of the Shadar Logoth evil. Fear turns into hatred of both kinds of uncorrupted Aiel (the originals, and the modern) and of those groups of people who are not like them. In the end, the Shaido dissolve, their corruption having weakened them so that they fall prey to outside forces.

Heirs of Shadar Logoth: The Children of the Light/Whitecloaks

The Whitecloaks are an obvious heir to Shadar Logoth, as they persecute channelers and anyone they consider a Darkfriend in the name of order, righteousness, and the Light. Whitecloaks represent the paranoia, assassination, and brainwashing powers of Shadar Logoth, and insofar as they have assimilated Amadicia and make forays across borders, they also cover invasion, though to perhaps a smaller degree than the Shaido (or the Seanchan). The Whitecloaks are also good intentions, corrupted; yes, Darkfriends are bad, yes, the Light is good, no, not everyone you don't like or who has power you want is a Darkfriend! They turn neighbor against neighbor, harrass, torture, and murder the innocent as well as the guilty, and generally do all the bad behavior you would expect of a military quasi-religious order that considers itself above the law. Also, Mordeth/Fain literally got his grubby hands all over the Whitecloaks early in the story and made them even worse.

Galad is a really good example of the 'best man for the job' ending up in it; Galad's extremely uncompromising morality is most likeable and practical when he's fulfilling a 'reformer' role in a group that really needs it, and when he's not in that role, his entire deal can feel excessive and alienating. (Although I will note that if you think about how his mom abandoned him to pursue what she was told was her duty, and his dad was a real asshole, you can kind of see why Galad has such a strict moral code and won't let something like family or feelings get in the way of carrying out his duty... anyway just having feelings about Galad, don't mind me.) When leading the Whitecloaks he recalls them to their original ideals and purpose, which is literally fighting the Shadow on an actual battlefield, and makes them hew to ethical standards from the original Lothair Mantelear text and his own personal extremely high standards.

He purifies the Children of the Light, insofar as they can be purified, purging the corrupt people and practices. This allows the Whitecloaks to ally with the Light, rather than sitting out the Last Battle or killing important Light-allied groups. But the Whitecloak channelerphobia is not going to be eradicated so easily, and that's mostly what Galad’s family was objecting to about him joining the Whitecloaks in the first place. And even Galad starts to succumb to it by the end of the series, although to be fair the White Tower had definitely done a number on his family by that point. Post-Last-Battle, Galad is really going to have to grapple with 'what is the practical purpose of a bunch of armed busybodies who think they're better than everyone else and who have a very deep-seated hatred and fear of channelers?' One hopes he'll convert them to a peaceable monastic order doing community service. If anyone can do it, it's probably Galad, but I think it's not going to be easy and it's also not clear to me if Galad is going to have the same opinion about the necessity that I do.

Heirs of Shadar Logoth: The Seanchan

So, now we come to the Seanchan, who are a rich, complex, fascinating culture that combines the best and worst thematic elements of both the Shaido and the Whitecloaks. Twice the fun, twice the flavor! Like the Shaido, they are the corruption of an honor-based culture that now assimilates other people and cultures without their consent. The Seanchan have a strongly-held honor system that uses public and private shame as a deterrent to unethical behavior, similar to ji'e'toh, but like the Shaido, they apply it to conquered peoples under duress; even if the Seanchan themselves are ok living this way, there's no real consent happening when they conquer.

Like the Shaido, the Seanchan claim to be the true heirs of an ancient legacy, the children of the child of Artur Hawkwing, but have spent enough time in Seanchan to absorb all sorts of concepts Artur Hawkwing never had (slavery, taming weird beasties, exploiting Aes Sedai rather than just avoiding or fighting them). Their culture is also built on convenient fictions; the knowledge that sul'dam can learn to channel, and that some can be held by the a'dam, is likely to produce a truth bomb down the line, one way or another. And the Seanchan are an imperial power, which means they automatically follow the natural growth and rules of empire; always be expanding, always be consuming, always be exploiting. They're Mashadar, baby!

Let's zoom in on the slavery, since that's one prong of what makes the Seanchan evil. It's a kind of bodysnatching and brainwashing, and there are some really interesting parallels here to the Shaido and Aiel. The Seanchan have three forms of institutional slavery; so'jhin, da'covale, and damane. So'jhin, hereditary upper servants of the upper class, have the most power and are analogous but not precisely equivalent to normal Aiel gai'shain. Like standard gai'shain, they are considered property that can be traded, have some level of autonomy and ability to direct their lives, certain rights and privileges, and in theory can be manumitted.

Unlike gai'shain, they actually can have more political power than free people. Also unlike gai'shain, they are not guaranteed manumission after a set time, and while I think the gai'shain consent issue is a little muddy (Aiel can't help being born Aiel and thus subject to Aiel raids) so'jhin are born into slavery and have therefore absolutely not consented to it. So'jhin appear to be based at least partially on Byzantine examples of high-ranking slaves, and slavery in other very complex and bureaucratic cultures where those in power needed highly competent administrators, but didn't want the administrators supplanting them.

Da'covale are equivalent to Shaido gai'shain; often (but not always) captured from other cultures, absent the rights and privileges of regular gai'shain or so'jihn, and bound to involuntary servitude for life, although they can in theory be manumitted. (Shaido gai'shain have the option of trying to escape, I guess.) They have very little autonomy and power to direct their lives. It may be possible for da'covale to become so'jihn, so again there is a kind of internal mobility/potential access to power that doesn't have an exact equivalent with the Aiel models, but that's offset by the lack of consent; da'covale can also be born into slavery. One can be made da'covale as punishment for defiance or anything else the Seanchan see as a crime, or born into it. It seems historically equivalent to ancient, prisoner-of-war-type slavery, mixed with the carcereal state; you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or you fucked up, and that's the justification for making you a slave.

Damane have some points in common with both regular Aiel and Shaido versions of dat'sang; they are all slavery in the form of the carcereal state/slavery as an outcome of the justice system. Dat'sang are 'despised ones', usually those accused of being Darkfriends or who have committed heinous crimes. It's a punishment that is apparently permanent and unrecallable, and they are sentenced to the most shaming labor in the worst conditions. They are cast-out from the community and forced to serve it in the most degrading way. Marath'damane, channelers with the spark who are not leashed, are treated like dat'sang are, in that they are cast out of their communities and shamed for their 'crimes'. Once they are leashed, though, they become integral parts of Seanchan society and are told to take pride in the service they can provide, which is very unlike the dat'sang cultural experience. Damane are enslaved and exploited for their talents, ostensibly to keep the general population safe from their magic powers and their potential political power, but also because they're an incredibly powerful military and infrastructure resource.

The first damane was created out of a combination of fear, greed, and hatred. One Seanchan-local Aes Sedai captured a rival and brought her to Luthair Paendrag, who she knew would be receptive to constraining the power of channelers. What she didn't count on was that solution being institutionalized, and that she'd eventually fall prey to it herself; a classic Shadar Logoth "do a shitty thing unto others and eventually you'll just be doing a shitty thing to yourself" move. Both the existing Seanchan population and Luthair's group had already othered, hated, and feared channelers, the Seanchan possibly for logical contextual reasons (seems like the Seanchan Aes Sedai were all independent Americans who didn't want to be governed by a universal code of ethics or subject to institutional oversight, which is not conducive to living in a society), and Luthair because of Ishamael’s original corruption of Artur Hawkwing.

In the end, the combined Luthair group/original Seanchan institutionalized their channeler bigotry, saying that the ends (preventing channelers from exploiting non-channelers) justified the means (exploiting channelers). Damane are never, ever freed and now the Seanchan think of channeling independently as inherently a corruption and a crime; something that makes the involuntary channeler evil and unhuman. They also break channelers, brainwashing them into thinking that this is for their own good (and not just for the good of the state).

(Another meta aside: Because involuntarily channeling is a genetic trait that the channeler has no control over, leashing damane feels to a modern reader, especially US ones, I think, very much like the race-based slavery of our recent past. Especially the idea that the enslaved person is enslaved as a punishment for a crime; this is something that would hit a US reader pretty hard, given that the US's booming prison population is the only legal slave labor force in the US and is also disproportionately made up of people of color. I am pretty sure that explicit parallels between racist slavery and the practice of leashing damane would be supported by Robert Jordan, especially since he literally put the Seanchan on post-apocalyptic North and South America. They have other influences, including Imperial Japan and Imperial China, and the Byzantine Empire, but in this way, and also because of the Texas accents, they are very, very American.)

The Seanchan are also similar to the Whitecloaks; they're both military groups who hate and fear channelers, and they are particularly susceptible to paranoia and assassination/extrajudicial murder. The Shadow didn't have any trouble infliltrating either the Whitecloak command structure (especially the Questioners) or the Seanchan Blood; there's a certain background level of 'the ends justify the means' going on in Seanchan and Whitecloak power centers that makes them fertile ground for recruitment. The Whitecloaks and the Seanchan both have a kind of secret police; Questioners and Seekers (they even have similar names!) who operate under certain strictures with respect to their upper management, but who can basically do whatever the hell they want to ordinary people. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you that secret police are PEAK Shadar Logoth; they were always judging everyone else, generating paranoia and mistrust.

The Blood and Imperial family are also a really great example of Shadar Logoth values creating a (somewhat) functioning society full of extremely fucked-up people; the more power you have, the more delicately you have to step and the harder you have to watch your own back. The higher up you go, the less trust you are able to have in others, until you reach the point where people are sending assassins after an imperial baby, and the imperial baby grows up thinking that's completely normal and fair and it's their fault if they are ever not good enough to dodge it. (Hi, sorry, please excuse me and my many, many feelings about Tuon.) That kind of thing makes you very, very sharp, assuming you survive; it also makes you very inured to violence and most comfortable when you've got a high baseline paranoia going at all times. It puts you in danger and it gives you the means to survive danger; it's very Shadar Logoth dagger, which attracts Darkfriends but also gives you the ability to sense the Darkfriends right back, and incidentally stab the hell out of them.

A Part With the Power of the Whole: Tuon and the Seanchan

So, we have all the sins of Shadar Logoth united in the Seanchan; they're invaders, they brainwash and bodysnatch, they're paranoid, they assassinate and murder, they've institutionalized hate and fear, they're structurally corrupt in that power in their society is based on lies and exploitation, and they think that when it comes to dealing with their mortal enemies (channelers), the ends justify the means. And their leader, Fortuona Athaem Devi Paendrag, Empress of Seanchan, is indeed many of these things wrapped up in one efficient and deadly package.

She's a sul'dam and she enjoys her work breaking and training damane; she's had siblings assassinated and we've seen her kill onscreen; she's deeply suspicious, always second-guessing and skeptical (except about received values and information from her culture); she embodies and enforces Seanchan culture and power. She is all Seanchan in one person, and she'd tell you that proudly. She tries to assimilate *herself* into the state, because she thinks that's what she's supposed to do, to best serve her people. She wants to be the part that is an exact mirror of the whole, and she wants the whole to be perfect, so she wants herself to be perfect, too.

Do you see the shades of Galad, here? Like Galad, she has a strict and impractically idealistic moral code that makes her somewhat unpopular wherever she goes; she's too unpredictable, merciful, and flexible for her counterparts in the Blood (she's always surprising them with her unconventional choices) and too perfectly Seanchan for her allies (who are all horrified by the damane thing, or the da'covale thing, or the assassination thing, etc etc.) The things people grudgingly praise her for are sincerity, competence, compassion within the bounds of her ethical structure, and (sometimes) a willingness to consider new information or accept oversight, the last of which is only impressive because of how enormous her ego is and how thoroughly she's been indoctrinated to believe she's inherently correct and all-powerful.

She is the best of Seanchan, within the context of Seanchan: she survived, took, and kept power, making her the most competent imperial daughter; she's very ethical within Seanchan strictures, not striking first unless threatened, working to acknowledge and correct personal faults, keeping her word, showing concern and mercy for those she believes are suffering, being thoughtful and careful of consequences when she exercises power; she is most representative of all of Seanchan's flaws and virtues, as a sul'dam, Empress, and Lightside ally. (That said: is Tuon the most ethical Seanchan within a broader cultural context? Hell no, that's Egeanin, who goes through a long and painful process of realizing and rejecting the corrupt and nasty parts of Seanchan culture, after it rejects her.)

To conclude: just like Mat's Shadar Logoth dagger, Tuon is a fascinating and dangerous tool of a powerful, antagonistic civilization that embraces a uniquely human form of evil. Her middle name is literally "Magic Knife Curse", Seanchan is the most Shadar Logoth-y of non-Shadow-aligned antagonist cultures, and she also follows the very Robert Jordan pattern of leaders fractally reflecting the culture or group they lead.

#wheel of time #wheel of time meta #meta #shadar logoth dagger #tuon paendrag #problematic fave tuon #tuon is mat's replacement shadar logoth dagger #part 2 #shaido #whitecloaks #children of the light #galad #galad demodred #sevanna #I'm sorry this is 9 pages long in a word document #I had a lot of thoughts

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