trying something i dont think it looks good
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every time i see someone mischaracterize matthias as a dumb, blonde, malewife with no personality except being nina's (dead) boyfriend i want to fistfight god and cause the mass extinction of humanity
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im sure everyone’s seen the argument by non-wincest shippers that canon weirdcest moments can be explained off as particularly close brothers. i’ve seen wincesties respond by straight up denying it, but honestly, i see where they’re coming from. they do TECHNICALLY have a point, yet still, it fundamentally doesnt sit well with me.
if you isolate all of these little incidents they could be perceived as purely brotherly. its got me thinking about what exactly makes wincest so appealing, and why i as a wincest shipper immediately have an exasperated reaction to people insisting that sam&dean are purely platonic.
i also see this argument frequently bundled with the stance that “weirdcest isn’t a justification for shipping wincest” (which is a whole other can of worms altogether— the puritan culture of ship culture rn), but you gotta take a step back and just ask yourself… why am i so intent on seeing these characters as platonic?
the prevailing argument ive seen is that siblings CAN be terribly close without being incestuous. this is totally fair. i’m not saying that if you are particularly close with your siblings in a sam & dean type manner that you are incestuous. obviously relationships between family is vastly complex & changes with the culture you grew up in.
the only problem here is that people try to go so far to explain sam&dean’s relationship as to not paint it as romantic. if they weren’t related, it’d be insane to think they weren’t romantic. they are consistently and repeatedly put in situations and exchange dialogue that’s used to convey romantic tone in western media. my point here being— the writers know that they are doing. and they are doing it INTENTIONALLY.
yes, certain cultures find extensive physical touch and kisses between siblings platonically acceptable. yes, you can be very close to your siblings without wanting to fuck them. but that is such a reach given what you are being presented with. you are missing the fundamental thematic point of supernatural: family horror!!
by so steadfastly arguing that sam&dean cannot be read as romantic you are purposefully ignoring the the text. you are glossing over the repeating themes of generational trauma and incest that are touched on time and time again, with john’s father abandoning him, mary’s parents being hunters, the struggle she went through to get out of the life but how family trauma & the past permeates itself into your being. you are ignoring the benders, the ghost pregnant with her fathers child, and the time azazel KISSED MARY in HER FATHERS BODY.
supernatural pushes incestuous themes SO HARD. it purposefully plays with & explores the double-sided blade that is family. it touches on a REALLY TABOO subject without being overwhelming or heavy handed. of course its going to attract people who enjoy these themes. OF COURSE we’re going to look at the two homoerotic brother leads and see something between them! it’s intentionally placed in the script! its a valid reading of the text!
this is why i get frustrated when people say that wincest shippers are twisting canon for the sake of shipping, because we’re not. when people say this they are taking a piece of media that is intriguing in how it handles a socially unacknowledged part of the human experience and forcing their viewing of it on others. they are saying that you aren’t allowed to enjoy those themes because it is inherently wrong or shameful to EXPLORE THE TOPIC. i dunno. that sounds pretty authoritarian to me.
it’s totally fine to be grossed out by incest or avoid wincest because it makes you uncomfortable. what ISNT okay is to say its an exaggerated reaction to canon, because it really isnt. in fact, its a pretty normal & sane conclusion to come to after seeing those two. the fact that they aren’t explicitly incestuous might even enhance this idea. it touches on the unspoken secretive nature of family trauma and the complicated, messy reality of crossing boundaries with blood without being cliche or overdramatic.
im going to incite occam’s razor here: yes, they could just be brothers. yes, you can explain it all away as particularly close siblings. yes, you can argue that it isnt explicitly canon. but really, why would you do all that when the show incessantly implies that they’re more? and more importantly, why are you so quick to say that a topic cannot be explored because it’s complicated? is that really the sentiment that we as a society want to hold regarding media?
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friendly reminder this fandom isnt a job and you don't have to actively work to 'save the show' all the time, you can just have fun
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Mai: I’ve got a few knives up my sleeve.
Aang: I think you mean cards.
Zuko: She does not.
Mai, pulling out knives: I do not.
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does nobody like repliku…??
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Ok ok ok I'm not Tryna start discourse but bluestars prophecy was my first ever warriors book and bluestar will always be my favourite so I'm gonna make some counterpoints to you about her being a Smajor character
bluestar has always been led by an intense loyalty and dedication to those she loves and cares for - this includes her mum, her sister, her clan, eventually Firepaw when he joins the clan, and she has a VERY strong moral compass when it comes to doing the right thing - when she sees thistleclaw teaching tigerpaw to hurt a then baby scourge she very much discourages it and is against it
Afaik scott is Not like that, he doesn't have an emotional or love-driven moral code, he does things because they're smart decisions in the long term or because he wants to. Granted I havent seen a ton of his stuff but I have seen his limited life and 3rd life perspectives and he is very much a singular team player there, there to look after himself and well if people align with him that's great he's got allies (jimmy and Martyn) but he won't go out of his way to care for them
Bluestars defiance of starclan in the first series is BECAUSE she gave herself to them and what the warrior code demanded so much - yes she broke clan rules by having kids with crookedstar but she did everything in her power to make sure they'd have a happy life and felt terrible that thrushpelt was willing to say they were his to save her reputation. She didn't do it out of a selfish want, she only ever wanted to help her clan and those she loved, and her becoming clan leader is emblematic of that want. When she rejects starclan so wholeheartedly in the first series it's because THINGS KEEP GOING WRONG WHEN SHES TRIED SO HARD TO STOP THEM FROM DOING THAT - starclan has never cared about the sacrifices she made to keep her loved ones and clan safe, she lost her mother, her sister, her kits, her mate, literally everything, and things STILL KEEP GETTING WORSE. it's not a demand that she deserves to have everything good, it's a cry for help that shouldn't something go right after she's tried so hard???
C!Scott isn't like that. He puts himself above others and inherently believes he will get the best if he just plays his cards right, and he is good at it, he's very competent at lasting a long time in life series and getting what he wants - the ruthlessness of gem driven by desperation kills him in secret life, Martyn's complete fucking about face kills him in limited life, and I'm pretty sure it's etho who gets him out in 3rd life by luck. He doesn't plan to look after the ones he cares about, because he cares about himself first and foremost. Yeah you can argue when he doesn't get what he wants he gets annoyed, but his is less of a 'why don't I get this don't I deserve it' and more of a 'oh fuck this didn't work. Ok new plan double down on getting what I want by appeasing to people cos they're easy to read and therefore account for'
I don't doubt Scott would make a bluestar adjacent character if he made a warrior cats oc BUT his character would honestly be closer to darktail or ashfur than bluestar and that's that on that.
(sorry you activated 13 year old me's unskippable cutscene sjdjsjsjja this isnt meant to be a serious argument I just love bluestar a lot and love talking about her)
OKAY 1. this is fucking awesome thank you 2. i am going to do something new and exciting (advocate for scott instead of beating him to death with sticks) because unfortunately this bluestar info has only made me believe she is a smajor character even more.
As a general note when I talk about smajor characters as a collective here I’m referring to characters more in the realm of esmp/traffic/rats/pirates/etc, less vampire scott or necromancer scott who are intended to be villainous.
Scott characters tend to operate under a “If I am not a Good Person I may as well die” rule, and consequently abide by a strict moral code to keep themselves feeling clean. For instance: traffic Scott will never go back on his word, he will avoid dishonesty, and he won’t take from others unless he is sure that he can repay them. He will never betray his seasonal primary ally (even when they betray him first), and will often give people things just because they asked him nicely. He stakes a lot of his own identity on this, because it is through being a “good person” that he justifies his superiority (and, by extension, his own existence); in his mind he deserves the best and *is* the best because he is such a good person. When things don’t go his way, he thinks he doesn’t deserve it because he has been nothing but good, so he tries to place a reason. He often assumes that somebody must “have a vendetta” against him, even if this somebody is the world (see: him asking if limlife episode 1 boogeyman is some kind of joke played on him for not giving in to the boogey curse in Last Life.) which is very Bluestar to me, convinced that her misfortunes are a divine punishment.
This is all to say that Scott does have a strict moral code and deep sense of loyalty. Being a “good person” and devoted partner in the ways he understands it are so ingrained into what he is that I think he definitely has the capacity to be a Bluestar if he were raised being taught clan values, even if his internal systems are often built around never letting gross emotions be fully felt rather than what those emotions compel him to do.
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fh fandom back to wishing death on a fictional teenager for being mentally ill and not learning how to cope with that in a healthy way. what else is new
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im getting tired of people acting like someone using anti tags are dramatic or chronically online, i mean some people may be but not all of them
if you want to talk shit about something use: the anti tags
if you want to talk about how much you love a thing: use the pro tags or the normal fandom tags
that way people can filter out what they do or dont like
do not post things you like in the anti tags and do not post things you hate in the pro tags
if you want to talk shit about people who use anti tags: DONT USE THE ANTI TAGS
if you are going to complain about people tagging incorrectly AND THEN DONT TAG CORRECTLY IM GOING TO EAT YOUR KNEES
also if you like something but then keep going in the anti of that thing please stop and just block the tag dont try and debate people who use the tag you're not going to change their mind there's a reason why they're posting in that tag
btw if you see a random anti post out in the wild that isnt tagged properly you have full right to get upset, im just asking for yall to not just go in the anti-tags to complain use the General tags or the pro-tags instead
(sorry if this comes off as rude or harsh im just annoyed with how often this happens)
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least favorite thing about existing is how engrained h*rry p*tter is in society like if i dont like dsmp yeah whatever block the tumblr tags and dont go on tik tok too much whatever. dont like that shitshow??? good luck trying to avoid it!! its fucking everywhere!!
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Thinking some fandom thoughts and then about ORV's portrayal of an author-character-reader relationship with the story and realising how....lacking at times the whole death of the author perspective on media can be.
(Turned out to be long and rambly so I put it under a cut. If you like death of the author, probably not for your worldview? Also, beware major ORV spoilers if you care about that)
Like, perhaps I'm misinterpreting something here, but in ORV, we had these three characters plus an entire system that gave us a look into the relationship between author/reader/character. And focusing on the Han Sooyoung, Kim Dokja, and Yoo Joonghyuk dynamic, I realise that none of them really died. Pushing asides Joonghyuk and Dokja for the moment (as I am talking about death of the author), we have Han Sooyoung whose consciousness faded after finishing Ways of Survival.
However, I don't know if we can really call that death of the author, really. Because Sooyoung's whole purpose in writing ORV, her authorial intention, was to save Kim Dokja's life...which she DID. And even after the story left her hands, her intentions were imprinted into the story itself. Yes, Dokja realised that the system was lenient to him because of (spoiler alert) his status as the OD. But at the same time, I think that Han Sooyoung's authorial intent to keep Dokja alive with WoS can also be taken as a factor in the system's leniency towards our reader.
And just jumping from that back to my original point, while death of the author IS fun and can be awesome for reinterpreting stories that the author may have intended as problematic (to our modern standards, at least), to separate the actual story itself from its creator seems just....a tad disrespectful to the author.
Or maybe disrespectful isn't the right word. Like, say, even if said author is objectively the worst of humans, there remains the fact that the story in essence has part of them embedded into it. It doesn't make sense, at least to me, to only give "morally okay" writers the allowance of people who put a part of themselves in their works. Any writer, even those who are writing for money imo, can't help but put part of their own selves into their story...and to separate the story from the author just because we hate the author or hate their beliefs seems a bit counter-productive. You can't just say, after all, that this author's vulnerability in their writing is okay because it's Correct but this other guy's vulnerability should be ignored because it's chalk full of Problematic Content.
But again, that's not to justify authors you dislike or the deeply wrong messages implied in their works. Especially those that could easily be shooed away by employing death of the author. But I think I'd consider fanfic or analyses that ignore authorial intent and their message to be something...new entirely? (Best way I can say it is something something death of an author employed to help the reader create their own narrative inspired by someone else's story rather than it being used to ignore author intent and claim our interpretation is what canon actually meant).
I think there's a saying in music as well as writing that you could play the same exact score or write the same story, it's just that things will come out different depending on the player or writer. (That's not a perfect comparison because the player/musician who WROTE the score could be considered a reader/author relationship...the point is more that the same thing will look different in the hands of different people. And that just as the reader will interpret something in their own way when reading/re-reading (another ORV reference), the author also has placed in their own interpretation and intent in that own work...which should at worst be respected because they DID make that content (and then we proceed to brutally revise it to make something we like better xD) or at best be taken as "word of god" for lack of a better term)
Not sure if any of this makes sense, and I definitely don't have any factual evidence to back up this opinion, but it was just something I was thinking of.
TL:dR? Death of the author is FUN and actually pretty cool but I think the things coming out of it are new(ish) things/works entirely, and og author's beliefs/intentions are important to consider for that text they wrote in of itself.
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also i do find it interesting that the atimers/fac fandom still calls betty & simon each others wife/husband/married term here despite the technicality of them only being fiances
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Sometimes I feel like doing this with my brain
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man by the nature of the circles i follow i generally don't see a lot of takes from izzy stans, but both the notes of the post you reblogged and the original twitter thread just make them look like their izzy brainworms have destroyed their reading comprehension and situational awareness. 'hehe there's two ways u could take that' clearly only one was intended. 'ur so right izzy is fucking blackbeard and he can build a pillowfort' YOU'RE SO EMBARRASSING. the show's creator is annoyed enough to actually voice some push back against the racist idea that history's greatest tactician needs this wet purse dog of a man to do basic tasks. these people really said 'i'm gonna ignore the actual issue being pointed out here and make this about my blorbo and my ship instead' and i don't know how anyone like this is gonna get through season two when they find out izzy isn't the main character they think he is.
ok tbh as amused as i am at the interpretation of that tweet as david jenkins getting so annoyed abt people thinking ed is an incompetent imbecile and is tweeting “ed knows how to build a blanket for on his own for fuck’s sake” i dont actually know how much of The Discourse david’s seen or if he’s aware of how many ppl genuinely believe shit like “izzy is the brains behind blackbeard.” it’s possible he just logged onto twitter and saw that tweet at the top of his mentions or whatever (idk how twitter works) and was just casually like “wtf obviously ed can build a fort by himself” and it’s not meant as an @ at any particular fans. and quite frankly i wouldnt want it to BE an @ at any fans. as toxic as parts of this fandom are, if david or any other showrunners started directly @ing people like “hey your headcanon is racist” it would only make shit worse. if i was a writer for ofmd i frankly wouldve stopped looking at ofmd twitter after a month bc it got so choked with rampant racism and it would make me go insane. like i hope jenkins et al have some distance from the fandom discourse for their own sake.
BUT ANYWAY about the izzy fans. as much as i personally am an ed stan first and a human being second i DO understand why izzy fans would make the joke abt “oh so youre saying izzy is having sex with blackbeard AND he knows how to build a blanket fort?” and i also think the majority of izzy fans KNOW theyre making a silly joke. like they know what david is actually saying. as far as im aware Not All Izzy Fans are the type to believe the “izzy is the brains behind blackbeard” headcanon so im not gonna assume every fan making this joke are doing so to intentionally downplay/ignore ed’s intelligence. i think a lot of them are just making a joke abt their favorite blorbo and while yeah i think the main focus should be on MY blorbo and how smart he is, this joke is so low on the list of shitty things ive seen izzy fans do that im basically just like. eh. whatever. definitely SOME of the ppl making this joke are the type to think ed is stupid and who warp the whole show to focus on izzy but i have no idea who or many so im not gonna worry about it. the joke is kinda annoying to me but im ALSO kind of stretching the tweet jokingly to be like “David Jenkins HIMSELF said that izzy is a useless first mate” (which i DO believe, but im not gonna use this tweet as proof that dj himself confirmed it)
that being said i dont think it’s a funny joke bc izzy obviously has never gotten laid before in his life and also izzy’s never experienced any joy so he obviously DOESNT know how to build a fort. and also of course youre right that there are izzy fans who will not be able to cope with the next season of the show not treating izzy like a special little main character but again this tweet is a single line from david abt a silly headcanon im not gonna get mad at ppl for not using it as a talking point abt racist fandom discourse. idk if david meant that line to be lighthearted or not so im not gonna take it too seriously except to say that ed’s blanket fort had better structural engineering than half the boats he’s ever raided. if the Revenge came under attack or if a huge storm blew through, stede’s cabin would be a disaster but the blanket fort would be completely unharmed
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thinking that i might start posting splatoon stuff here as well. and really basically anything "fandom"ish that isnt ace attorney for the sake of not spamming ppl with my thoughts on ace attorney.
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