#I was trying to think of an instance where it would be okay to shame a fanwork | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

lover-of-mine · 4 months

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Okay, I said I was gonna make a post about the way I believe Ryan is playing Eddie as in love with Buck because of the way he makes certain choices about Eddie regarding Buck that are similar to the ones he made about Eddie regarding Shannon, and this is it.

The whole thing started with the way Eddie looks away from things that make him experience intense feelings, but mostly when he doesn't like what he's feeling in a sense. He looks away from Shannon all of the time, when they're fighting, before she goes to the school, and in the firehouse, when she says she wants a divorce.

He's avoiding his parents eyes when they are trying to take Christopher, he looks away from Frank all the time.

He can't look Buck in the eye when Buck is trying to tell him that Chris got lost in the tsunami, he looks away from Ana because he knows he's hurting her (he does force himself to watch Shannon as she dies but I feel like that's a lot more about his loyalty/instinct to protect because that moment is fully about her because she's dying).

That's a consistent trait Ryan gave Eddie, he looks away, I think it even makes sense with the way Eddie runs away from stuff. And that makes moments when he's avoiding eye contact with Buck that much more interesting.

Because take 3a for example, buddie has quite a few emotional conversations, but during those, Eddie is mostly always staring Buck down or actively trying to force Buck to look at him (except when it comes to the fight club but the fight club is a lot more about shame in my opinion).

But when you look at the will reveal for instance, Eddie is consistently forcing himself to look back at Buck. His instinct seems to be to keep looking forward, and he needs to remember to look at Buck from time to time. (I'm not gonna put the whole scene here, but go rewatch and pay attention to where Eddie is looking)

And sure, the way Eddie simply refuses to look at anything relating to Buck's death can be seen as just "my best friend died" because any reasonable person would have an extreme reaction to watching their best friend die.

But, I don't see how that applies in the cemetery. Because Buck says "she sees me" and Eddie gives him that disbelief look and then just, stops looking. Honestly, there's no reason for that conversation not to involve them looking at each other, the point that's made that they are looking straight ahead is very interesting on its own but, like, when you add the fact that Eddie looks away from shit he doesn't want to feel/wants to run away from, that conversation has a whole other fun layer.

Even more with the way that Buck is lowkey looking like a kid tugging on your sleeve to get your attention and Eddie just refuses to look at him.

But my point really comes to the fact that these are all the same reaction.

And how do you explain the decision to make Eddie react the same way he does when Shannon is asking him to make a decision about them and then when she makes the decision herself by asking for a divorce when he thinks Buck has made a decision about them so he needs to back off?

That's his breakup face, plain and simple.

And it's not a reaction Eddie has to Shannon once, is something that is consistent with the way we see Eddie reacting to Shannon, and I personally think its a lot of the way it makes us never feel sure about the relationship, because Eddie is consistently presented to us when it comes to this as "I love her but I'm not sure about having her around". And these are his reactions to moments where Shannon makes him question where they stand. Moments where he's questioning if he actually understands where their relationship is.

You can't have Eddie question the nature of his relationship with Buck just because Buck has a crush and tell me that Eddie is experiencing purely platonic feelings.

And these are acting choices, and Ryan is very consistent about the way Eddie reacts to stuff, so the fact that he is wearing his "Shannon is making me feel thing" face says something.

I also said earlier today that Eddie is aware of his feelings because he stops saying emotional things while looking at Buck. Like, after the tsunami he is literally chasing Buck's gaze to force him to look at him, he doesn't look away from him at the grocery store or when they make up after the lawsuit or even after Buck fights with his parents, but starting with the will reveal, he looks away when saying things, and it makes me wonder if there's a level of that that is about making sure Buck can't read his reaction to what he's saying, because he doesn't want Buck to look too closely.

Anyway, that's all for today, as always, if you read this I love you <3

#911 #911 meta #buddie meta #eddie diaz #buddie thoughts #im gonna go to bed now #i dont feel nearly as crazy about this one as i do other metas #is too many instances to be a coincidence yk?#ryan is on our side #and he put in enough work that the second they decide to make buddie canon that can just push Eddie into doing something #and make it make sense #anyway #Ryan is playing Eddie as in love with Buck and I will take no criticism

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spop-romanticizes-abuse · 5 months

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I'm not a catra stan-stan and definitely not an apologist but I really like her character. Her redemption arc was botched and it's a shame because she had a really interesting character, and she had perspective on abuse that I'd never seen portrayed before.

I live in a relatively abusive home with (gross generalisation here) me as a scapegoat and my brother as the golden child. I'm not proud of it but i've been abusive like catra (even if not to this extent because ??????? She did reallyfucked up things ?????????). And seeing that on screen, it was freeing in a way, like staring in a really dark mirror, and it felt good to have a character to relate too in this aspect.

And then came the redemption arc 🤡 honestly Catra's point of view is not badly written from what I remember. Like trying your best to be a better person and stop being abusive, but the other person doing something that sets you off and falling back on those patterns on instincts ? I've been there, and it's somewhat nice to have the scene with mealog to relate to for example. Having to take responsibility for your actions and your reactions, but every sorry feels awful and has to be torn out of you because you feel guilty as fuck and you know apologies aren't gonna change anything, and you know there will be other instances when your abusive tendencies will take over despite your best efforts? It was freeing to see those sorts of moments on screen.

But adora shouldn't have forgiven her. The others shouldn't have forgiven her. Maybe they could be forgiven, but not trusted. It doesn't make sense, it's rushed, it's stupid, I hate it. Also catra stops feeling guilty really fucking early for what she's done, like ma'am show a bit more remorse you tried to kill her ? Stop complaining when frosta punches you in the face, it's explainable and you deserve it. In her redemption, she lashed at Adora once or twice, got told it's okay I forgive you please don't do it anymore and suddenly she was "fixed". That's not how it works and it sucks, it hurts, that's not how it works. We never saw a broken catra post redemption, and it lacked.

So, yeah. I'm pissed about her redemption arc, and it's a shame because i really wanted to see it work.

(I didn't even mention catradora because that's not the point but the amatonormativity of it all? You're broken but your true love's kiss has fixed you so it's okay)

this is exactly how i feel too! i didn't start off hating catra because she was a really compelling villain and a scarily accurate version of an abuse victim who started adopting those abusive tendencies themselves. i didn't relate to her entirely but i could definitely relate to some aspects of her, especially her anger that sometimes got best of her.

but it feels like the creators forgot that she was supposed to be redeemed and kept making her do the most heinous things with no remorse, only to remember in s5 that she needs to be redeemed, and shoving a hasty redemption arc where she ultimately does not change at all.

i don't think even catra's perspective was that good because she only changed for adora. she didn't redeem herself because she knew what she was doing was wrong or because she regretted taking part in the war. she did it because she wanted adora back and also because she was of no use to horde prime.

and after getting saved by adora, catra honestly does not try much to actually correct her mistakes. she keeps lashing out at adora and abusing her, she's snarky with the other princesses and keeps falling back into her old habits. and no one ever calls her out for it. healing is not linear, sure, but there should have been someone who would keep catra in check and call her out when she starts acting shitty again.

but no, the only instance of her trying that we got was when she admitted that she was working on her anger issues, and then immediately proceeded to guilt trip adora by saying that adora was giving her a hard time.

catra really had a lot of potential but it's a shame the creators valued a rushed toxic romance more than actual character development and good storytelling.

#spop critical #spop #spop salt #spop criticism #spop discourse #she ra #anti catradora #anti catra #anti spop #anti c//a #antic//a #anticatra #anticatradora

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sophieinwonderland · 8 months

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Oh hey! Another note about the highly clinical language thing:

So we have a really hard time explaining our symptoms to doctors. But we sometimes come across descriptions that match up perfectly with our experiences. So we start to use those descriptions to give an explanation. And often enough, we will forget the specifics of what led us to find that explanation so good. So we will rely more on the clinical description.

For example, executive dysfunction. We have really bad times where we just can't get up and do something. Some sort of mental block or feeling exhausted without lacking energy. But when we simply try to describe this to a doc in our own words, they just hear depression.

Which, is like the point of clinical language right? To be precise? Especially with how it take folks an average of 6 years to get diagnosed, I imagine a lot of folks using clinical language do so because they've had a lot of time to refine their words for their symptoms and struggles into that precise language.

-Faye

Yeah, I totally get that. I imagine a lot of people use clinical language for that reason.

I do kind of see the perspective of the psychiatrists on this too though. I think it's reasonable to want people to describe their experiences themselves instead of relying entirely on the jargon.

I was doing a write-up on another Imitated DID article. Overall, the paper has a lot of misinformation, a lot of bad practices for determining who is or isn't a system. And is really only better than its predecessor in the way that it wasn't actively sexist in shaming its subjects, or trying to paint patients as monsters out to slap malpractice suits on innocent therapists. 🙄

There were some nuggets of wisdom hidden in there though...

I think this is actually valid, even if I have other problems with the above lines.

While patients shouldn't be dismissed for using clinical jargon, if I were a psychiatrist, I think I would want to make sure that they were using that jargon correctly.

Heck, I'm not a psychiatrist, but still think it's important when talking to people and explaining different experiences that we're on the same page on what different words mean. Especially when those words are complicated and meanings change based on context.

Way too many psychiatrists will take this too far and decide to completely dismiss someone for using clinical language, which is gross and actually ableist.

But you also want to make sure that when someone is identifying with PTSD and describes having "flashbacks" that they're using the word the same way you do, and aren't referring, for instance, to pleasant memories.

...

Okay, now I'm going to comment on the quoted lines, and how I think it's indicative of the psychiatrists failing in the reverse way.

Because I can't simply post the screenshots without calling that out.

In the case of someone using clinical jargon, they expect elaboration because they understand that someone may not understand how jargon is used by clinicians.

But with Mary who clearly describes people in her head talking to her... they dismiss her because she denies hearing voices.

To me, it sounds like Mary simply didn't realize that voice hearing in psychiatry could include mindvoices.

So while Mary is dismissed in one instance for not using the clinical jargon correctly (flashbacks) they also dismiss her described experiences in another when she likely simply misunderstood their jargon. (Voice hearing.)

...

And so I think currently there's a huge problem where if you describe experiences without knowing the clinical jargon to accurately illustrate them, you'll be dismissed or misdiagnosed. (As with your own problem with doctors interpreting your executive dysfunction as depression or Mary's voice hearing being dismissed because she didn't call it voice hearing.)

But then knowing too much makes doctors think you're faking and just reading your symptoms off of the internet.

It makes this ridiculous paradox where you need to jump through hoops just to get doctors to believe you.

There's no way to win. At least not reliably. And it all sucks.

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crookedkryptonitebeliever · 2 months

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Okay no joke if I was Yves I’d be mad as hell too, like you chose this sloppy, forgetful man over HIM??? the same man that literally has your genetic sequence down to the allele by heart?? Knows all of your genetic information so well that it would put 23 and me to shame!! Not only that but like I think there was an ask about how an anon believes that Monty would’ve honestly attached himself to anyone who was just there at the right time meanwhile Yves’ love for his darling is entirely unique and under any circumstances he never feel this way for anyone else. Like UGH with Yves it’s literally all or nothing, if it’s no you, he doesn’t want it. But with Montgomery, if another person showed up he would’ve been acting the same with that person and not you!! Like his love isn’t “unique” I guess in a way.

Ooo I’d be so upset too. I wonder like has he ever at least THOUGHT about trying to do some technological fuckery to end the relationship between his darling and Montgomery? Like perhaps, doctor some text messages, do voice impersonations or create a voice impersonator so that he could make it seem like Monty was cheating on his darling, causing her to run into his arms. It would b EUREKA 💡 as f because he wouldn’t have to kill Monty bc he actually didn’t do it, and she’s no long with him. But RATS he probably wouldn’t want to bring that sort of pain onto his darling especially with the harsh feeling of betrayal, that can mentally scar someone for years, a feeling that Yves probably is quite familiar with :(.

Buttt at the same time we do have instances (such as if the reader was really old or suffering from terminal health issues) where he would lean more towards being selfish as long as you stay with him, so in certain circumstances he is selfish enough to let you go through pain as long as you’re with him. But dang now that I’m typing this, I’m like that’s probably not that good of a comparison, one’s a relationship and the other is your life.

Also he probably wouldn’t want to take away any of his darlings happiness either, but dang like what if it was something more subliminal maybe like you unconsciously hearing subliminal messages telling you to leave Monty and that all you need is Yves because he’s the only one that can make you truly happy Mann I don’t know 😔.

But at the same time I’m ngl!! I can kinda see why some of y’all like Monty. I think it was Chapter 39?? When he busted through the door of the house and essentially mollywhopped everyone. I was like wait,,, why is he kinda,,, I guess like some of the guilt of not being there for the reader coupled with what he heard was just enough to make him snap and go into a rage. And some people are probably more comfortable around someone who’s like Monty as compared to Yves.

But also like really quick! Does Monty have the same level of unconditional love as Yves? Like I think I remember reading somewhere that you could essentially try anything you want and Yves will NOT leave you, like he has permanently cemented himself to your side literally FOREVER like it’s almost cosmic in a way. I wonder if Monty has that same level of patience but in his own way.

Zhats enough of my unintelligible ramblings and questions, your last post really did it 4 me ooo I wanted to bite my phone!! Love your work!!!!!

the other ask in question

Holy fuckin shit anon thank u so much for ur thoughts i would love to hear moar feel free to ramble more in my asks!!1 these are the types of stuff that also keeps me going with my writing

also i got like newest installation where yves interacts with yan older bro

naw YVes wouldnt like paint monty as a cheater because the pain fuckin HURTS man, he would rather be cucked like indefinitely than let you go through the horrors of recovering from such betrayal, plus there is a chance that you get so hurt that you didn't want to be in a relationship anymore or even ASSOCIATED with men anymore, so Yves just shot himself in the foot

He's only selfish when it comes to keeping you with him, so too bad if you are facing horrors of the mind, you are getting revived

Yves is defnitely using the subliminal messages to his advantage. you would probably be all like "ewww" to Monty after the first few days, weeks if you're particularly into sad, dirty men. but true love can really work past that and there really isn't much he could do without devastating you

Oh yeah Monty's love is fr unconditional, if you are abusive to him, he will take it. Altho he would cry in secret, praying to god that you will one day change your ways and stop abusing him, he will never leave even if everyone around him tells him to. He would stay until he's dead or police actually caught you beating him into a pulp, but even then, he would say it was his fault for provoking you -- he would try everything in his power to get you out of trouble.

He isn't like YVes in a sense that he tries to change you, he will just beg pathetically and get fucked over and over without learning his lesson.

If you're dead, he's dead. Simple as. Nothing will get in the way of Monty's quest to be by your side as soon as possible.

thanx 4 reading my stuff anon ur analysis really made my day i love reading yalls thoughts

#yandere #yandere concept #oc yves #yandere x you #yandere oc x reader #male yandere oc x reader #tw yandere #yandere male #yandere oc #yandere x reader #oc montgomery

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genshinluvr · 2 years

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(not a request) Isekai!reader with glasses always popped up in my head while reading your story! But what if they're hiding the fact they need glasses? And it only seems more noticeable when they're walking outside that they want to remain closer with someone (fear for tripping). Jokes on all the harem boys: reader lost her glasses

Okay, I'm going to assume that Isekai'd!Reader has terrible eyesight! Like, looking off into the distance is hard and they have to squint their eyes every time they're trying to read or look at something that is very far. They try to not make it obvious that they're blind as hell (almost legally blind in their world omg) by acting normal and acting like they can see just fine. But unfortunately, that doesn't last as long as the reader would hope it would.

There are some instances where the men suspect the reader of having poor eyesight when the reader mistakes Childe and Thoma for one another. Imagine how offended Childe and Thoma felt whenever the reader calls them by a different name. The reader will try to play it off as a joke, but it kept on happening. Even if the reader is trying to read something that is less than a foot in front of them, they will subconsciously squint their eyes to read the words. Only to fail because that's how bad their eyesight is.

Other than the reader having issues with seeing and reading things that are less than a foot in front of them, the reader will probably run into something, trip over something, or bump into something that is in front of them. Diluc will confront the reader about it with the others watching.

"Are you sure you can see just fine?" Diluc asks, crossing his arms over his chest.

"Yeah! Of course, I can see just fine!" You raised an eyebrow at Diluc.

"Oh, really? Read this for me." Diluc holds up a piece of paper in front of him, standing from a good distance. You stared at Diluc blankly, then at the paper, he was holding up right in front of him.

You did that one thing again that gave you away. You squinted your eyes and leaned forward to read what was on the paper. The men around you muttered something amongst themselves before Diluc lets the paper fall out of his hands.

"Okay, you definitely have poor eyesight." Diluc sighs, pinching the bridge of his nose.

"Why didn't you tell us that you needed glasses?" Zhongli asks, walking up to where you stood. You turned towards Zhongli, only to bump into his chest and stumble back a little. Zhongli grabs you by the shoulders to steady you, looking down at you worriedly.

"Listen, you guys, I do have glasses and I do wear them!" You said, scratching the back of your head with a sheepish smile on your face.

"Then why aren't you wearing them? Your glasses are important." Thoma says, tilting his head to the side as he looks at you worriedly. Or, at least that's what you think he was doing. You can't really see well.

"Uhhhh... about that." You laughed nervously. "I may or may not have lost them when I went into your world." You reply, playing with your hands nervously.

"What do you mean you lost them when you went into our world!?" Scaramouche exclaims, looking at you in bewilderment.

"How long have you been in our world again?" Kazuha asks.

"I don't know. A few months maybe?" You mumbled, feeling like a child that was being scolded for doing something wrong.

"And you didn't have your glasses the entire time?" Baizhu asks.

"Nope." You answered, feeling your face heat up with shame.

"You could have told us. Glasses exist in Teyvat too, you know?" Kaeya says softly.

"I know, but I didn't want to bother anyone with me needing glasses." You said.

"Looks like you have an eye doctor's appointment tomorrow! Don't worry about the mora, it'll be paid by me." Childe says, patting your head with a small smile on his face.

#genshinluvr #genshinluvr answers

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writing--whore · 1 year

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The Art of Survival - Chapter One

Okay so I have written 5k of the Luis x Reader Hunger Games series (and I'm only like halfway/a quarter of the way through the plot that I have in mind) but before I go any further with the writing and editing, I wanna put the first 1k words to see if people actually like it. So here you go. Plz lmk what you think and if you want more :3

Pairing: Luis Serra x Reader

Summary: Luis is determined to survive the hunger games, which means he cannot allow himself to have a single weakness. And he had none. That was until he laid eyes on you.

Word count: 1k

Warnings: graphic depiction of violence (canon typical for Resident Evil 4 and also The Hunger Games). The violence is committed against you. Canon typical murder of children.

A/N: I re-watched the Hunger Games like a year ago and haven't seen it again since. I'm not going to follow the Hunger Games lore as if it were law. Because A) I don't want to and B) I can't remember it. Please don't come for me. Or do and I'll edit it.

Part One - Part Two

Throughout the whole ordeal - the training, the social events, the interviews - Luis kept his head down and didn’t speak a word to anyone. He didn’t want to think about his chances of getting out of here alive. And he certainly didn’t want to think about how he would have to murder all 23 other contestants if he wanted to live. He’d committed enough atrocities by creating la plagas. A part of him thought this was karma; he deserved to die after what he had done. And yet, when faced with the very real likelihood of death, he realised that he was much more selfish and cowardly than he’d originally thought. He realised that he wanted to live.

He chose not to think about it. He didn’t want to face his ugly instinct to survive and what he would have to do if he wanted to return home. Which is why he didn’t want to have anything to do with anyone else. He didn’t want to humanise his opponents.

But he had eyes and he had ears. No matter how much denied and ignored the situation, numerous pieces of information still infiltrated his brain. For instance, he noticed that Y/N was the weakest opponent. She was the smallest, she was the weakest and she didn’t even seem to possess one single skill that would be helpful in the arena. For as much as he tried to uproot it, a seed of sympathy had planted itself in his heart. None of this was fair. People like her should not be pitted against… well, people like him.

He certainly wasn’t the strongest here but he was far from the weakest. He was decently tall, decently strong. He knew he had a great aim and that he was exceptionally bright. And after fighting the Los Illuminados, he thought he had a pretty good grasp on the act of survival.

There was one final banquet where all the contestants dined together. He couldn’t handle it. Everyone was so fake, trying to make pleasant conversation when they knew a blood bath loomed on the horizon. He scoffed up his food and chose to take a walk instead.

The cool air hit his face and he sighed with relief. The peace was short lived; his ears attuned to a nearby sound of crying. His feet trod silently along the gravel, following the sound until he spied the source. Someone was curled up behind a hedgerow, letting out helpless sobs. It was Y/N.

His feet continued along the path. He buried the sympathy, he buried the shame. Those weren’t emotions he was capable of possessing anymore.

So why then was he haunted by her face when he was trying to get to sleep that night?

He recalled being forced to watch the footage of the other contestants getting reaped, and the way all of the colour drained from Y/N’s face when her name was called. He recalled seeing her taking great gulping breaths before the live interviews, each one shorter than the last like she was forgetting how to breathe.

He groaned and wiped a hand across his face. She should not be here. She should not be fated to a certain and brutal execution. But more importantly, he should not be thinking about this. He had to focus on himself. It was the only way to win.

That’s exactly what he did. As he stood in the arena, facing his contestants in a circle, he thought only of saving his own skin. This was it. The games were about to commence. His heart drilled against his chest. It was not an unfamiliar feeling, he had learnt to hone it, to sharpen his senses while forgoing any mindless panic.

The contestants eyed each other up, trying to unnerve the other. Luis simply didn’t look. He focused on the cornucopia straight ahead. He knew he’d be able to run fast enough and he would be much better off if he could claim a weapon.

So as the countdown hit zero, he legged it, shoulder barging others out of the way. A solid iron pipe caught his eye. It would keep his attackers at arms length and it would be skilled at wielding it. He snatched it and ran, holding it poised against his shoulder in a way that made others afraid to take their chances with him.

He dived into the thick of the forest, picking a random direction and sprinting as fast as he could. No thoughts entered his mind besides the command to keep on running until he couldn’t run anymore.

Laughter cut through the tree trunks a few feet ahead, followed by high pitched shrieks. His feet dug into the mud as he went to veer around the source of the noise. But through the leaves, he spotted Y/N. She was crawling through the leaves on her hands and knees but two kids from district 9 dragged her back into the clearing; two cats toying with their prey. 5 minutes into the games and these kids were already focused on sadism rather than survival.

The district 9 boy easily flipped her onto her back and straddled her, ending her ability to struggle. His fist raised in the air and pounded her face.

Adrenaline shot up Luis’ spine. He wasn’t even aware that he was emerging through the brush. Nor that his arms had sparked to life and were lifting the pipe over his head. It was an automatic, emotionless act, he told himself as he swung.

A sickening crack echoed throughout the trees as the boy’s skull snapped open. Rivers of blood ran down the back of his head.

The district 9 girl screamed - raw with grief - and took off running in the opposite direction.

The boy fell to one side, half on top of Y/N. She propelled her legs, trying to scrabble away from the weight trapping her. Luis was reminded of a bunny caught in a fist.

Horror flashed in her eyes when she caught him watching her. Blood had sprayed across his cheek, painting him as a killer. It gave her the fuel she needed; one more kick and she was free. She scurried away, kicking up fallen leaves and very nearly tripping over her own feet.

~~~

He dreamt of her that night. He dreamt that he was a ghostly spectator, floating around the clearing as the district 9 kids took it in turns to beat her. They didn’t let up. His heart tore itself to sheds to hear her cries as her face was marred with deep black bruises. There was nothing left of his heart when her cries turned to silent defeat. She wasn’t going to get out of this. And no one was coming to help her.

Their punches didn’t let up even as her face turned into an unrecognisable pulp.

“Stop!” He wanted to call out but had no voice.

He wanted to break their hands, claw out their eyes. But he could not act.

#luis serra x reader #luis sera x reader #luis serra x you #luis serra #luis serra navarro

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a-town-called-hometown · 29 days

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I mean, even if they are grown adults, it's okay for them to be wrong about a theory for a video game they like, right? Being wrong about a game isn't something that actually harms real people, but shaming people for it (not saying you are! just a trend I've noticed lately) does. People who are just trying to have fun should be comfortable with the possibility of being wrong (as long as they aren't being harmful to real people by saying they're the only ones who are right or something) imo.

Theorizing about what'll happen next is a form of fandom participation everyone should feel comfortable in, but if people are punished for being wrong (be they teens, people with autism, people who only enjoy the game casually, etc) it cuts off that way of participation for them altogether.

with all due respect, I'd like to tell you gently that this ask comes off as a bit condescending. I've already agreed that I will work on my tone when criticizing things I disagree with. you continuing to press the point after I've already agreed with you makes me feel like I'm being lectured, and I don't appreciate it. I would prefer if you wouldn't do that in the future.

yes, of course it's okay for people to be wrong. but I also don't see how me being slightly snarky on a small tumblr blog discourages people from participating in fandom. I haven't mentioned anyone specific, and if I ever implied that fans are dumb, I sincerely apologize. but I don't think it's inherently rude for me to be annoyed with certain popular ideas, especially because I try to be constructive when making serious critiques.

if you want people to be okay with being wrong, you also need to be okay with the presence of critics. if all good-faith debunking of theories is interpreted as being punishing towards fans who like those theories, then nobody is ever allowed to be comfortable with being wrong. anyone pointing out that you're wrong can never be interpreted as morally neutral. it is, in short, not a good fandom space for serious discussion to flourish.

now, dogpiles do exist, and people can absolutely be mean when criticizing stuff! I personally struggle with tone due to being autistic, and so I'm always open to people pointing out specific instances where I come across as rude. I certainly don't want anyone to feel unwelcomed or insulted when interacting with me. and I understand the concern with making sure everyone feels comfortable, considering how toxic the fanbase can be.

you don't need my permission to be wrong. nobody does. it's okay for you to be wrong. I just ask that you consider the fact that sometimes criticism occurs and that people are sometimes annoyed with fanon, and that those are not inherently bad. you are capable of ignoring critiques of fanon if they happen to bother you.

#i am sure you mean well and are trying to be polite but i would like you to consider what you are implying #when you say that 'people shouldn't be punished for theorizing' in response to a semi popular post debunking a very common theory

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sometimes-men-need-help-too · 1 year

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Let’s talk about body shaming

This is a topic that is almost exclusively talked about in reference to women; now, this does happen, women are body shamed so it’s not a bad thing in itself to discuss. However, the problem I have is when people either refuse to acknowledge that it happens to men as well or they try to say that it isn’t as bad for them and not on the same level than it is when it happens to women.

But they are body shamed. They do deal with hurtful remarks. We just don’t always acknowledge that. We tend to look at these things differently.

So I want to discuss some things that men are body shamed for.

- Their penis

It’s an infamous example. I’ve talked about this before, I’ve said how wrong this is.

It’s not hard to find a comment (and I apologize for the language) that say, “this has little dick energy.” You’ll typically see it if a guy is saying something a woman doesn’t like or what he’s saying is actually rude or if there's a post/video that’s showing some poor behavior on his part. And instead of criticizing the behavior, the attitude, they go right to body shaming.

And it’s considered funny. It’s considered clever. But there’s no real reason for it. In spite of that, people will try to justify themselves. I’ve seen comments of people saying that if the guy is acting like a jerk then it’s okay. They aren’t going to care about his feelings.

On the surface, it might seem reasonable. But it’s not. It’s not reasonable. It’s not acceptable.

When you body shame, even if it’s towards someone that isn’t a nice person, you’re perpetuating the idea that whatever you’re shaming him for--in this case, his penis size--is something to be ashamed of.

And you can’t act like it’s not a big deal because you’re not directing it towards anyone else--that doesn’t matter. Realistically speaking, it’s going to create doubt. It’s going to worsen someone’s image of themself.

Maybe that guy on the internet is saying things he shouldn’t. Maybe he won’t care what you have to say because he’ll just brush it off. But what about the teenager who is browsing through the internet and sees your comment, sees the attention it gets (laugh reacts, people agreeing). He’s young, he’s in puberty and just starting to express an interest in dating. The guy who struggles with insecurity about whether his own is too small or worrying about what girls will say about it does. The guy who has experienced someone making a remark about his size. They care. Other people are seeing those comments. They’re absorbing them.

Think about the guys who do have a small penis. What about them? They see and hear this kind of thing being mocked over and over which in turn makes them view it as something to be embarrassed about.

You know, I recently came across a reddit post that was basically asking why don’t more guys speak about this (penis shaming) if they want it to stop. The thing is, people (usually online) will take that (you speaking up) as you having a small penis yourself and then they get mocked for it, whether they have one or not.

- Their height

Here’s another big one. Shorter guys have to deal with a lot of crap, maybe not all of them but many do. And for something they can’t even control. They’re not even “allowed” to feel insecure about their height without being mocked for exhibiting ‘fragile masculinity.’

For instance, a guy might be dating somebody taller than him and he might feel a bit uncomfortable (for a lack of better wording) by it, especially if they’re wearing something like heels. They’re just kind of expected to not care and in a perfect world, they wouldn’t. But we live in a world where we’ve created that insecurity but we won’t own up to it, if that makes sense.

Compare it to when a girl feels insecure about her weight. For most people, they would try to assure her that she is perfect just the way she is, that she is beautiful and society needs to redefine its beauty standards.

It’s not the same with a short man. It’s not that nobody cares, it’s that we don’t really look at in the same way. We more so view short men who are dealing with insecurity over their height their own problem. Or something that only men care about.

- Their hair loss

This is especially true if they’re starting to lose hair but it’s not completely gone.

He may be made fun of if he tries to something about it (like wear a toupee). He may deal with snide remarks when he tries to date or from his own S/O. He may deal with jokes from his friends that hurt more than he’d like to admit.

It’s another instance where he doesn’t really have control over it. It’s embarrassing for anyone to deal with. It can really shatter your self confidence, especially if you’re pretty young.

Or maybe they have something like alopecia

- Their weight

Generally, we think of body shaming as something that only happens if you’re fat (aka fat shaming). It does happen. People will make them feel like crap for their weight.

They also get shamed for being too skinny. They might not have a lot of muscle to them. And we generally don’t take skinny shaming as seriously. Gosh, I saw this one post about this topic and a lot of people found it funny. They said they wished they had that problem.

Someone might point it out to them a lot (that they’re skinny/thin). They might get told they need to eat (like a cheeseburger). They might be told really rude things. And it’s just as hurtful. Maybe you’re someone that has dealt with people giving you crap about your weight, telling you that you need to do this or that. You might very well be upset by it just as skinny people are upset by it too. Put yourself in their shoes.

- Their teeth

They might have braces. Or broken teeth. They might have problems because they could never get to a dentist. It might be discolored due to medication. They might have buck teeth (where the front teeth is sticking out further than the bottom ones).

- Not being able to grow facial hair

I don’t know if men have been made fun for having facial hair but I’ve definitely heard about men getting shamed for a lack of.

Not every guy is able to. Not every guy wants to. And yet, it seems to be one of those things that you might get teased for--because a real man would have facial hair

These were some examples that first came to mind, Feel free to add more

Men and women are guilty of this. They might not even mean to do it, it might just be a joke to them but to somebody else, it isn’t. Or it was meant as an insult because that’s how our society is: if I don’t like you then I can say whatever I want to hurt you but I’m not being hypocritical because I think you’re a bad person

No, it is. If you believe ___ shaming is wrong but okay in some instances, you are a hypocrite. It shouldn’t be this way. If someone’s behavior/attitude is not okay, then focus on that. Call them out on that. Don’t stoop so low as to make fun of their appearance

Furthermore, what does that teach kids? Doesn’t that contradict how we tell them that bullying is wrong?

This needs to change

#mens rights #body shaming #double standards #misandry #anti misandry

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about-faces · 5 months

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I was just wondering, do you happen to know what WFA is referring to with saying that Harvey was a law professor?

I certainly don't doubt that he's smart enough to be a law professor! But given the typical timeline of his life, I wouldn't think that he would have had the time to be a law professor, you know? (Often he went to college with Bruce and they became besties there. After graduating, he went off to be a lawyer, and is often stated to be a very young DA, often being DA by the time Bruce starts Batmanning in his mid-20's or so. So there's not a lot of time for him to have become a professor in that time...) So do you know of any instances/stories in which it directly says/shows Harvey being a law professor...?

(Though admittedly, it is another GREAT idea for what Harvey could do after quitting his life of crime. :p I mean, it's never really stated what he was doing for a living at the start of Gotham Nocturne. Being a law professor certainly wouldn't be a bad fit in that particular instance!)

What what WHAT? I haven’t kept up with WFA, nor have I seen the source of that one image of WFA Harvey I reblogged recently, so this is all news to me! Mainly, I’m just kinda boggled by this choice, especially if they’re not going to do something with him. Maybe they made him a law professor because the profession of being D.A. is perceived far less admirably than it used to be, but that would suggest they wanted to make Harvey sympathetic. Hold on lemme look up the strip…

Ah okay, it just looks like a random addition that only served Harley’s point. So it was just done for the sake of Harley Quinn. Yeah, okay.

No, he’s never been a law professor at any point, but it’s an intriguing idea! Wayyy back, I was inspired by the ending of Sidney Lumet’s awesome movie Prince of the City, having a temporarily-reformed Harvey return to his old law school as a guest speaker, only to see a bunch of students walk out in silent protest. But I don’t think that could or should happen now. Worse real-life people become professors all the time, and really, I’d love to see Harvey in that kind of role. I mean, he probably wouldn’t be able to get his license reinstated (no matter what Jeph Loeb thought in Hush), so it’d be a good application for his skills in a positive manner.

They did try doing a similar thing with Jim Gordon as a professor after he was shot and retired, where we had to see him regularly have to deal with fanboy students asking about Batman. A shame that didn’t stick.

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billpottsismygf · 9 months

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Okay, rewatch complete and my feelings are just so *mixed*. When I was halfway through, I wrote this whole thing about the weak plot and bad pacing, but having watched episodes 4-6 in one sitting today, I’m now feeling much better about it. In fact, the emotions of the last scene were even more hard hitting this time, and I no longer have as much of a character issue with Aziraphale’s decision as I did my first time through.

To get my bad thoughts, all written yesterday, out of the way:

The plot is so weak and the pacing is all over the place. What is series 2 about? Crowley and Aziraphale take in an angel who has lost his memory, they successfully hide him for a few episodes while trying to set up two shopkeepers, then we find out what was going on. The End. Series 1 works because we get all this amazing character stuff for Aziraphale and Crowley on top of an engaging romp about the end of the world, with a huge cast of characters and lots of moving parts that all come together at the end for a satisfying finale.

I found episode 3 a particular slog, which is a shame because I do actually like the Georgian setting of the flashbacks, but it gets very flimsy very quickly. I just don't believe Elspeth's sudden desire to kill herself (with an apparent sudden change of heart re: bodysnatching, since she says she doesn't want anyone digging her up), then another sudden turnaround once she's been given the money. I liked the general message they were going for wrt poverty and Aziraphale's ignorance of how the world really works, but it just doesn't quite work for me.

I also don’t buy into Nina and Maggie at all. If it was established that they knew each other a little already, then it might work, but Maggie’s deep investment in Nina liking her just reads as either overbearing or unbelievable. They’ve clearly never spoken about anything other than coffee before, and Maggie has a crush fair enough, but after one somewhat awkward evening locked in a shop, she’s crying and declaring herself in love. I like both of the actresses, but I’m not sure they completely sold it either. (I feel bad pointing out particular instances, but when Maggie’s “crying” when Aziraphale goes to ask about the song, she doesn’t even believably read as upset, let alone crying.)

There's also just the, fanfic-ness of it all, especially with Gabriel and Beelzebub. I've always seen that pairing as a bit of a crack one, though I'm glad there are people who enjoy it, and for it to become canon like that... Maybe if they were still bitches at the end? But the mushy lovey dovey 'wherever [they are] is my heaven/hell' stuff just doesn't read as in character for either of them. It's like they switch into totally different characters at the relationship reveal (though on the rewatch, I did appreciate knowing why Beelzebub was so keen on finding Gabriel).

Really the main things this series has going for it is, firstly, that it is often pretty funny, and, secondly, the chemistry between David Tennant and Michael Sheen, on top of their individually brilliant performances. I am deeply invested in their relationship at this point, as well as the wider implications for Heaven and Hell, but if I weren’t I don’t know that I would be all that excited for series 3.

I do think series 3 will be better, as this was always described as the series that got us to where series 3 needed to start from, but this is so obviously a filler that it’s hard to see why it was made in the first place. I imagine we needed that break up scene at the end to lead into the final series, but I wonder if that couldn’t have been achieved with a special, or honestly if we couldn’t have just found out what happened through flashbacks within series 3 itself.

Now, onto the good, written today:

The second half of the series is actually much more enjoyable. I adore the entire conceit of having a Regency ball, and it works so well alongside the gathering menace of the swarming demons. I also love the entirety of the 1941 flashback, even if it doesn’t have much to do with the main plot - sidenote, but the thing of calling the flashbacks ‘minisodes’ is very odd given that they often take up the vast majority of their respective episodes.

Now that I was expecting the Gabriel and Beelzebub stuff, it wasn't quite as jarring as the first time. I stand by what I said above about the out of character-ness, though.

The Nina and Maggie of episodes 4-6 are also much more believable, because they're actually talking. They're taking part in the main plot, too, and they get to have agency at the end and tell Crowley off for trying to manipulate their love lives.

As said above, this time the entire final scene between Aziraphale and Crowley packed an even bigger punch. I loved it the first time round, though of course I found it devastating, but this time knowing where it was leading, it hit me all the more. It’s a real showcase of both Michael Sheen and David Tennant’s acting chops, as well as the complex relationship between their characters.

Derek Jacobi, master that he is, is of course completely fantastic as the Metatron. I wonder if he’ll have a bigger role in series 3 (if we get it). I really hope so; I’m always delighted to see more of him. Muriel is so adorable as well, and I find the rivalry between Uriel and Michael so enjoyable.

This series is such a mixed bag and I just cannot settle on a consistent opinion. I think perhaps it would have fared better with either a more complex plot, or fewer episodes. I’ll probably do another rewatch soon, but on a much slower episode-by-episode basis.

#good omens series 2 #good omens #good omens spoilers #ineffable husbands #aziraphale #crowley #good omens mine #mine #reactions

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majorbaby · 1 year

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Can you elaborate on your personal gripes for how mulcahy is used in the narrative? I have seen people talking about not liking him but I think it was more disliking him as a guy, so I would like to hear your thoughts

okay well, first i'd just like to say that nobody is a bad person for liking mulcahy and i have less of an issue with HIM as a guy (his thoughts, feelings, wishes, his favourite colour, his favourite food, his relationships with others) as i have with how he is positioned by the narrative. you seem to get this, but i still want to make it clear. if anything i'm all for mulcahy getting it on with whoever because it would undermine his vocation as a celibate priest.

long explanation under the cut but TL;DR: mulcahy is positioned as being a morally upright person. this is dangerous because apart from his being a character on the show, he is also representative of the catholic church. moreover, positioning the church this way severely undermines the show's central, anti-establishment, anti-war messaging.

there's lots to love about MASH, but the way it deals with religion and the church is a major weakness. the show wants me to accept that patriarchy, militarism, imperialism, social conservatism are bad, but draws the line at critiquing religion, by positioning its chief representative in positive light. it's a big oversight.

let me try this a new way compared to how i've done it in the past and start with the military:

fuck the military, right? we agree that it is bad? and we agree that MASH came out swinging against the army and that that is part of the central messaging of the show? and we agree that one of the best things about MASH is that it took such a hard line against the military? cool.

why do we hate the military? it's violent, it's paternalistic, it eats up public money that could otherwise be spent on making peoples lives better, it influences public policy in a negative way, it's hostile to equity-seeking people (racialized people, lgbtq+ people, women, people with mental and physical disabilities), it is also hostile to even the most privileged in our society. MASH specifically took aim at the draft, which still functionally exists in US law.

basically, it is overwhelmingly oppressive and does far more harm than good, if you can even make a case for what good it does.

the catholic church is bad for all the same reasons. most catholics are born into the church, assigned catholic at baptism, which occurs when you are a baby and which cannot consent to. its ranks are overwhelmingly male and priests are literally called "Fathers".

your mileage may vary when it comes to the separation of church and state but...

where i live, the catholic school system is funded by tax dollars - technically any child can attend a catholic school even if they aren't catholic, but say, idk, want some free indoctrination. but you must be catholic to teach in catholic schools, so half of all these 'public service jobs' which are unionized, pay well and difficult to secure are only available to catholics. you can go to catholic school yet grow up and be unable to teach in one, like, currently, in 2023, in Canada which has some fucking nerve to be still upholding this archaic system. people aren't born pro-life or homophobic or believing that sex should be between a man and a woman and purely for procreation, or that masturbation is a sin... these are all things we see in policy, in education, in medicine, in media, as a result of the influence of christianity. what flavour of christanity varies based on where you live but in many instances, it's catholicism. you could extend some of these critiques to organized religion in general but i'm not doing that right now because mulcahy is catholic specifically.

like... purity culture didn't just pop out of nowhere. you may not be christian but sex shaming and the elevated ideal of marriage and the gender binary and the idea that we need to be 'civilized' in a certain way are all christian values that were spread violently across the globe, often hand-in-hand with military exploits. not only are the military and the church similar, they're often indistinguishable and they very much need one another.

MASH was trying very hard to say, originally at least, that there are no good military brass. even henry gets the piss taken out of him whenever he tries to be a 'colonel' to hawkeye and trapper. so why henry, and not mulcahy? (also why not potter but like, that was a different era and potter is a character i actually do proper hate)

if there can be no good army officers, then there can be no good priests. and mulcahy was both.

#mash #mulcahy meta #re: mash #replies

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cookinguptales · 1 year

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just a little psa!

Just got an ask asking me for my feedback on a disabled character they want to write. I'd usually just reply to this privately, but that's not possible with an anon ask and -- I mean, honestly, I get these requests every so often so it's probably not bad to write a PSA about it.

I talk a lot about disability, and some of that is because I want to vent and/or talk about my life experiences, and some of that really is because I want to teach people and help other disabled people feel seen and understood. That said, it can be a really exhausting thing to talk about, both physically and emotionally.

While I actually applaud someone doing research and asking actual disabled people for input while writing disabled characters, and while I desperately want more disabled characters to be written in general, I feel like there are two really important things to keep in mind here:

First of all, you may be asking about a sensitive subject. Like -- for instance, asking a disabled person about tropes they personally do not like may be asking them to remember situations that have been hurtful, frustrating, or actively physically painful. When they talk about disabled characters being moved without their consent, they might be thinking about times it's happened to them IRL, and people think it's okay because they see it in media. (Looking at you, Stardew Valley.) When they talk about disabled characters falling into "good cripple vs. bad cripple" tropes, they might be thinking about how they've felt the need to try and be the former so IRL people do not perceive them as the latter. To a greater or lesser degree, every trope we hate is one that is written in blood. Like... for me, when I think about tropes I really hate wrt disability, my first thought always goes back to seeing Amour in the theater and having to do the walk of shame in front of everyone else in that theater. Feeling like everyone was staring at me hobbling past with my cane, even if they weren't, because we'd just watched a movie about how people with degenerative diseases are better off dead -- but that they also shouldn't be afforded the right to choose how and when that happens. I felt so exposed and so judged and like I'd been judged wanting. I went home and I sobbed. That is what I think of every time I am asked that question. And while I don't always mind talking about those things... it's kind of a lot to ask of me on demand. Some days I feel up to it and some days I don't. That's why I write about it some days and some days I don't. I really do need to be able to control which day is which, though.

Second, and really more importantly -- what you're asking for here has a name. It has a job title. It is consultant work and/or sensitivity editing. In other words, you are asking me for a thing that I am literally paid to do. This is a paid thing that some people do for their entire living. I only do it as a side gig (and only for authors who are my personal friends, see #1) but like. It's something that is a job. I'm a consultant on many subjects, and I'd expect to be paid for my time and expertise when talking about disability just as much as I would when helping an author design a new religious movement or something. (And I went to college for that!) I know that things feel fuzzy in fandom, especially when origific is on the line. Frankly, they kind of do in the professional writing world, too. What favors you ask as a friend or a fellow fan vs. a professional. Where discussion and meta stops and where consultancy starts. All I can say is that it's something that's up to each person's individual boundaries, and if you're going to be asking for free labor, it's something you should probably only be asking of your personal friends. (Though -- I should probably note here that my IRL writing friends pay me when I edit their work. Because I am a professional editor who freelances for trad pubs as well as working one-on-one with authors. I sometimes offer to do it for free as a gift or in return for something they've done for me, but they are mindful that my labor is valuable.)

I don't mean this to seem mean or angry or chastising. I get it. I remember thinking I could just casually ask these things, too, when I was much younger. But... what's a casual question for you often is not a casual answer for the person you're asking, and it's really not a great idea to ask these things of people you don't even know.

(I mean... I assume. You are anonymous. We may know each other well, which I guess is kind of another level of weird to this.)

Anyway, tl;dr, I hope you have a good journey when writing this character, and I really do think that it's a worthy thing to do. But... labor is labor, y'all, even when it comes from some weirdo on tumblr. If I decide to do it for free, that's fine and dandy! But there's a difference between asking a creative to do work for free vs. just enjoying what's freely given.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#I say after writing like several hundred words on the subject #this one is a freebie lmao #I actually turned down a paid writing gig #because I was being expected to write about disability often and in very personal terms #and as much as I wanted to help people understand my life and the lives of other disabled folks #it started to feel like monetizing my own trauma #and I just... didn't want to do it #and if I wouldn't do it for pay I'm certainly not gonna do it for free lmao #replies #cw:#disability #chronic illness #ableism

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atthebell · 3 months

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I'm going to be honest, I had some problems with ships because of how much most of the content were most ships in other Fandom I've been in(I'm not really romance repulsed but sometimes is a bit overwhelming for me), so I tend prefer platonic/found families relationships

Honestly, I'm surprised by how I started to like the qsmp ships, but that's not the point of this. But honestly, I just wished some people stopped getting some things too literal, yeah, Cellbit and Baghera called Phil dad, so did Pac call Tubbo mom. Have you never called a friend, who might be the same age as you, things like mom or dad as a joke? It doesn't mean you see that person as a parental figure, they are just joking because they are friends and that doesn't mean they are less important to each other, but that's not the relationship they have. Yes, sometimes you see friends as siblings and such, but friends can be family even if you don't see them as siblings or parental figures, they still as important

Honestly, I miss the start of morning crew when the joke of Tubbo being fitpac's kid being simply that, a joke that was funny to see, but I never saw him as their son. The same goes to saying that about Cellbit and Baghera to Phil, just a joke of the moment, not a serious thing of how they interact or view each other

(Sorry for the rambling, it was not supposed to be that long, and sorry for bad English)

yes people cannot understand a joke and it's endlessly frustrating like cellbit and baghera have both explicitly said they do not view phil as their dad but people have fucking brainrot and can't let the idea go because they're so obsessed with a traditional family dynamic.

also i get that usually shipping is very prevalent in fandom, but here's my thing: in terms of the wider audience of a piece of media, most people are not actually engaging in fandom. they watch or read or play the thing, talk about it a little with friends, and that's it. fandom and shipping are a small percentage of how most people engage with things-- they just seem huge because, well, this is the fandom website, and to some extent that's what twitter is as well. and fandom has been becoming a more popular way to engage with media in the last couple decades.

but to my larger point, shipping is very common within fandom itself as a whole, that is true. but in mcyt fandom, it has been incredibly unpopular, due to concerns about rpf and various other issues that are to some extent fair and to other extents incredibly overblown. so as someone who's experienced mcyt fandom prior to qsmp, i am ECSTATIC to have shipping be this popular. i can't even explain to you how easy it was for people to get cancelled or called out or whatever for having two adult minecraft roleplay characters even just kiss prior to this fandom. people were fucking insane about this, and to some extent still are.

that's not me trying to tell you off for your preferences, it's totally fine to not be into shipping, but in terms of what it's been like for YEARS in this mega-fandom dealing with people attacking people for being interested in romantic pairings, qsmp is a breath of fresh air. so it feels really shitty to have twitter users (and some tumblr users) STILL have this mindset that shipping is inherently sexual or inherently evil, and that sexuality is gross and bad. like. to me it's very indicative of reactionary politics on the left, that a bunch of young queer people think its okay to shame people for being interested in queer relationships and sex and insist on traditional family dynamics. so i would much rather have a far more free fandom with more shipping and less prudishness than to have one where, for instance, a cc gets driven off the platform for saying she doesn't mind shipping (aka what happened to zombiecleo). again, i'm not saying you can't have your preferences, that's totally fine, nonnie, but in the larger context of how mcyt fandom has been for a bit, i think the focus on platonic and familial relationships is indicative of how toxic this fandom gets about shipping and sexuality.

and again, it's all bad interpretation. cellbit jokingly slipping up calling phil his dad is not an in-character freudian slip-- he's doing it to be funny, because phil gave him something he needed and phil is always doing that, and cellbit knows about the dadza jokes. baghera being pathetic and wanting to live in phil's house does not mean she wants to be his daughter; it means she wants to fuck around and be silly and pathetic and also wants to spend time with phil because she enjoys spending time with people. people are taking their incredibly biased interpretations of what's happening and then attempting to pass them off as the objective truth.

sorry for the ramble back this stuff irritates me so bad

#asks #anons #i have a post about the shipping thing hold on let me find it #and about the interpretation stuff

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tomwambsmilk · 2 years

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if somehow shiv and tom had managed to have the open relationship convo BEFORE their actual wedding (like back in new york before they even got to europe) how do you think that would have looked like? do you think tom would have still gone along with it? would it have made their relationship better or worse

Oh, that's such an interesting question...

Fair warning that this answer is very long because I think there are a lot of contributing factors and angles that need to be explored:

First off, I think the timing of the conversation would matter. A conversation had, for instance, shortly after Thanksgiving, before anything has happened with Nate but after the idea of infidelity has been introduced, would go a lot differently than a conversation where Shiv tells Tom about Nate right before they go to Europe. (I think she would tell Tom about Nate because her desire for an open marriage is partly informed by a desire for openness and honesty; she doesn't feel capable of monogamy, and she doesn't want to be sneaking around. So, I don't think there's a world where she asks for an open marriage but hides the thing with Nate from Tom).

For her to have the conversation in advance, though, I think she'd need to be okay with the possibility that Tom would leave. I don't think she intentionally waits until their wedding night to "trap" him - although Tom clearly feels that way by 2.10 - but I do think that being married lowers the chances of him walking away simply under the sunk-cost fallacy.

I also think her desire for an open marriage is not really rooted in sexual desires but emotional ones, which is one of its significant problems. I am not at all an expert on open relationships (it's very much not something that's for me), but from what I understand, it works in situations where there's some sort of sexual disparity that's being addressed through the relationship. (I'm also distinguishing here an open relationship, which is usually just sexual, from a polyamorous one, which usually isn't just sexual and where the relationships are more complex. Again, though, I'm not an expert on either.)

I think we're meant to take at face value that Shiv has not cheated on Tom as of Thanksgiving, and I don't think we're meant to believe that infidelity has been a part of her previous relationships. There's some implication that she's had a lot of sexual partners (although a lot of that is coming from other people and in circumstances where they're trying to shame her, so I take that with a grain of salt) but never an implication that she cheated on any of them. So, I think the desire to not be exclusive is very much connected to their engagement and the prospect of marriage.

There are a couple of theories out there as to what the specific reason is; Sarah Snook said in an interview once that her belief is that Shiv has never seen a marriage that didn't feature infidelity, especially within her family, and that's why she herself feels incapable of monogamy. All of her father's marriages were characterized by cheating, and she is her father's daughter. And likely, she saw the negative impact this had on his marriages, especially on her mother. So, her solution is an open marriage. Maybe if we can codify the infidelity, we can weather the storm. Maybe if we agree in advance that this is okay, and we (I) can be honest about what's going on, it won't break us like it did my parents.

I think there's probably a lot of truth to that. I think another contributing factor is likely just a fear of intimacy, particularly emotional intimacy. I do think her affair with Nate and the open marriage is, in part, a way to create some emotional distance from Tom. She's not a person who feels safe in relationships, in general, and so I think the prospect of being married to one person, and the expectations of physical and emotional exclusivity that generally go along with that, is frightening to her, especially when coupled with that fact that marriages are theoretically supposed to be permanent. She needs some kind of ripcord for when it becomes too much, and I think that's what the open relationship is meant to do: sleeping with someone else, sharing that physical intimacy with someone else, relieves some of the emotional burdens she feels from monogamy. (She doesn't need this before the engagement because, before the engagement, she can theoretically walk away whenever she wants; while the divorce is, of course, an option, I think it's one she probably really wants to avoid, given her own upbringing, and that increases the pressure on her immensely.)

So, with all of that background - I think that if Shiv had the conversation around Thanksgiving, very clearly articulating what it is she wanted rather than hinting with the infidelity thing and hoping Tom would be okay with it...

Well. I think regardless of the timing an the circumstances, Tom's initial, gut reaction would be hurt. And part of this is because Shiv's desire for an open marriage is rooted in insecurity; I don't think she'll be able to frame that desire in a way that doesn't cause Tom to feel like he's personally lacking on some level. Like he's not enough, and this is a personal failing. And his own self-loathing tendencies mean he's going to be inclined to read it that way, even if she was able to present it in a way that was perfectly neutral.

But I think because this is how he would take the request, I don't think he'd be able to articulate his own concerns around it. Tom very much wants to be monogamous, and he isn't going to be happy in any kind of non-monogamous relationship. But - he doesn't have the personal security to be able to say that, and the timing of the conversation isn't going to change this.

So I think he would still agree, because he loves Shiv and wants her to be happy, because he hates and himself and so this makes a sort of tragic sense to him, and because he's afraid that if he loses her he's not going to find anyone else - and, if we're being honest, because walking away from that relationship is going to put his career in jeopardy. I absolutely do not believe this is his primary reason for marrying Shiv, but he's definitely aware of it, and it's just going to be another reason to try and do the "open relationship" thing.

I don't think there's any world in which this is a good thing for either of them, because of Tom's insecurity and because of Shiv's motivations. I also think that Shiv pretty clearly does have some kind of emotional connection with Nate, which means we're already looking at a relationship that sort of breaks the boundaries that get put around "open relationships" - so I just think no matter how you slice it, no matter the timing, it is going to end in disaster.

However. I think if they had this conversation around Thanksgiving, and then were able to use the intervening months as a sort of "trial run", they wouldn't have gotten married - which I think would have been the best outcome for everyone involved. I think there's decent odds Tom would have reached the breaking point of his misery before the wedding, and would have decided to cut his losses and take the career hit and move on - especially because, if they aren't yet married, there's less pressure to stay together and try to make it work. Plus, if this isn't sustainable for him there's an incentive to figure that out definitively before the wedding.

There's an alternative possibility where he goes to leave and Shiv decides to give up the open relationship so he'll stay. But I'm not actually sure she would... I think it's pretty clearly her intent through season 1 to stop sleeping with Nate or anyone else when they get married, and instead, when push comes to shove, she feels she has to ask for the open relationship. Monogamy is not something she believes is sustainable for her. Additionally, I think the open relationship would put so much strain on both of them (especially Tom) that other parts of their relationship would deteriorate as well, and it might not feel like there's much left to save.

If they have the conversation right before they leave for Europe? That's a bit more of a wildcard. Tom is clearly willing to call off the wedding if he thinks Shiv doesn't want it. Finding out about the affair is also going to be a significant emotional blow to him. I think the proximity to the wedding means it'll be hard for Shiv to make the request for an open marriage sound reasonable and well-thought-out - it's going to sound to Tom like she just wants to keep fucking Nate.

On the other hand - would Tom really call off the wedding if Shiv wanted to go through with it? I don't know. Calling off the wedding that close to the date is going to cause a lot of gossip and speculation, and again, we're looking at the career blow. Plus, he does love Shiv, and they've spent months building up to the wedding, and the closer they get to the wedding the more sunk-cost fallacy is involved. Theoretically they could postpone the wedding until they both have more certainty, but I don't think either of them would think to do that.

I've debated with people whether or not Tom believes Shiv the night before the wedding when she says she hasn't slept with anyone else. Personally, I don't think he does, but decides to go through with the marriage anyways, committing to the illusion that it's something that it isn't (monogamous). (I also think that's why he tells Shiv about the cruise documents - to create that intimacy, and to bind her to him a little more with this shared secret.) So this is where I'm torn - I think the key question is, would he call off the wedding if she was honest with him?

Ultimately? I think not. I think at that point, they would have gone through with the wedding no matter what. And maybe, in a certain sense, this would have given them a better chance, since there isn't the baggage of Tom feeling "Shanghai-ed into an open-borders free-fuck trade deal". I think they'd both still be miserable, but there would be more of a feeling on Tom's part that he consented to this misery, and that's going to change the way he approaches the relationship and Shiv. He wouldn't be able to hold it against her quite the same way he does in canon (although I think he still would resent her for it, just... quietly). It definitely wouldn't be a healthy relationship, but... maybe it would be a bit more stable.

#succession #tomshiv #sorry it took me like 6 weeks to answer this #it's a good question though! fascinating

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antisociallilbrat · 1 year

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Hello <3 I followed you a while ago and I was scrolling through you blog (sorry if that's creepy) I saw you mention how you think the Duffers lied about Steve supposing to die in season 1? I'm a little confused (but not judging) why you think that?

Love your blog! Sorry if this seemed rude!

Anon trust me when I say this isn't rude at all, I love talking about this shit and I thank you for giving me an excuse to do so.

Okay so first of all this probably stems from this post where I first talked about the chance the Duffer brothers lied about Steve in season one. That's because in my research for answering the anon in that post I found two conflicting articles. One that talked about Steve getting the redemption arc that was supposed to go to Lonnie Byers and how instead he was supposed to leave the Byers house and die at the hands of Demogorgon but then I also found this article that conflicts with that one. It basically says that Steve was originally supposed to be the human villain and have an arc more reminiscent of Billy's.

So here's what I believe happened. All speculation of course, no way to know for sure on any of this. I believe that Steve was supposed to be the human villain at least up until season three where he would- presumably- die like Billy had. I don't think his villain arc would've been exactly like Billy's, but he probably would've been the one to get flayed and his would've had a lot to do with Jancy.

In season one we can see where they were setting him up for that villian arc, his fight with Jonathan, his slut shaming of Nancy, the general anger he had for the two. Alongside his typical 'jock persona'; like Jason Craver in season four. Steve really wasn't doing anything 'decent' until the very end of season one, as if his character had a paradigm shift.

Edit: More under the cut, holy shit it's been a while since I did this

I do believe the Duffers when they say that they fell in love with Joe Kerry, I just think that they decided to make him another 'good guy' instead of the series 'bad guy', I don't think they ever had any intention just 'killing him off' though.

There are a couple instances in season one that support this. After his fight with Jonathan we see him with Tommy and his girlfriend in front of a convenience store. This is the first time we see him snap back at his two 'friends' in the defense of Nancy. Then after this we see him go back to the movie theater and volunteer to wipe the graffiti off. This is the start of the shift in character from bad guy to good guy for him.

Then on top of all of this we see him go to the Byer's house to apologize. Driving home his character shift. After he leaves the house, after trying to apologize, this is when the Demogorgon is supposed to get him. And if it did play out this way,,,it would make the whole scene messy- and not in a bloody way.

Like that would mean that the Demogorgon appeared outside, killed Steve, fucked off long enough for Lonnie to get there, and then appeared back inside the Byer's home? It's a little much don't you think.

And if they were going to kill him, why show his character shift from bad to good? If he was just going to be another body for the count, why show the audience those two scenes I mentioned previously? Up until then some of the audience would've been rooting for his death. And you could say having Steve go apologize would've given him a reason for being there in the first place but he could've easily just shown up at Jonathan's house for revenge before getting picked off.

So why would the Duffers lie? That question is easy explained, press. The Duffers needed all the press they could get after season one. Netflix took a chance on Stranger Things and season two was not happening unless season one did well. So I think the Duffers fibbed, added a little spice to the press if you will. Obviously they weren't going to mention about Steve supposing to be the bad guy since they were still going to keep that arc and just write it into a different character, that's part of the reason we got Billy, so saying that Steve was supposed to die was just an easy route.

I fuckin rambled but Anon I hope this explains why I think the way i do and thank you for the question! I love fandom discussion questions.

#i live for questions like these #thank you anon #sam answers asks #steve harrington #nancy wheeler #jonathan byers #billy hargrove #stancy #jancy #stranger things #stranger things 4

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