#greek mythology discourse

[anistrange]

You Know...?

Imagine being a teenager living on an island where a idiot king like Polydectes forcefully tries to marry your mother Danaë and making impossible the live of your adoptive parents unless you accomplish a series of task that involve your death; with a sheer of luck you get rid of Medusa but then you have to rescue a princess whose mother is a pain in the ass from a sea monster, later, fighting the consort of said princess who doesn't give two shits about the well-being of Andromeda, and then rescuing your mother from Polydectes and thanking your adoptive parents with a powerful gesture of giving to them the crown of the island for the Tumblrinas to imagine you as a raging asshole and wanting you dead because D A D D Y Ovid and your pop mythology authors are always right. What a bummer.

#greek mythology #greek gods #greek myths #perseus andromeda #perseus doesn't deserve this #danaë #greek myths discourse #greek mythology discourse #greek mythology adaptations #greek myths memes #incorrect greek mythology memes #Ani writes #The amount of shit takes I've seen regarding the demonization of folklore figures is unironically smooth brain #Oh #but Hades have a pass because he's “le darky uwu” #miss me with that shit fam #Be more original #I beg you #Thanks #I'm on my grindset #Perseus #ani rambles #For the record #this is not me “whitewashing” Perseus #his young energy and impulsive attitude are one of his main defects #and still he has a huge heart toward his family and girlfriend #“umm actually if you read Ovid chapter 4 🤓☝🏻” #cool now read Hesiod and Homer and see how your shit takes fall apart on real time lmao #ok Im calm now

[hanadoesstuffwrong]

We all know and love zutara's Hades & Persephone parallels. Complimentary opposites constantly being misunderstood as a captor/victim- badboy/goodgirl- edgy/sunshine trope despite significant nuances; being torn between familial and spousal devotion; ruling over their kingdom as equally powerful forces of nature... Good good stuff.

But may I humbly suggest that we have been woefully neglecting the sheer dramatic potential of taang x Eros & Psyche.

#lonely rich girl reduced to the sum of her physical traits x flighty boy of god-like power c'mon ppl #i feel there is something to be said here #the emphasis on sight and knowing somebody by their soul instead of their face?? #turns out there's some animosity between H&P and E&P fans that I was not aware of until today #like yeah there's lots of bad takes on H&P floating around and E&P deserves more attention #but there are literally two cakes ppl #stop pitting two of the only functional marriages in this mythos against eachother! #it's literally mythology there is no 'canon' stop being annoying #zutara #taang #my posts #atla #other thought im chewing on is which mythological love story works for sukka?? #Ariadne and Dionysus maybe?? #OOOOOr Atalanta and Hippomenes?!?! #was this an excuse to get out my thoughts on greek mythology discourse? maybe #eros and psyche has been my favourite greek myth for nearly the last decade and i need ppl to know #fr context i highly recommend the overly sarcastic productions videos on yt! #zuko x katara #toph x aang #in this house we love Hades & Persephone and Eros & Psyche equally thank you very much

[satanghostface]

I was reading discourse on achilles yesterday and I'm still thinking about some people calling him a r*pist and others saying that other books they've read that are from a woman's perspective completely shifted the perception they have of TSOA's Achilles. And to me that makes little to no sense.

Here's what I come from: Achilles is a character from the Illiad, and the poem itself is pretty much fanfiction. I mean, the person and warrior that Achilles is based on probably existed, and it might have been called Achilles even, but i think we all agree that the rest is dubious.

Since the illiad is like the OG story, people tend to look at it as if it's canon and we'll go with that logic. You have the canon work and poets go off on their own versions of these characters writing tragedies, more epics, thesis, all sorts of stuff, and it goes on for centuries until we reach The song of Achilles and Percy Jackson and all the other 100s retellings coming out which are fanfiction of fanfiction.

And you're letting one fanfiction distort another fanfiction? It's bonkers to me because as someone who has to read the classics and grew up on fanfiction, I don't see that happening elsewhere. Between academics, if we're discussing a myth, we mention the different versions, and we can choose one to go on from, sure. But even so, I never saw someone sound so affected by different perspectives on the same character in class.

And if we're talking on the world of street fanfiction, I most definitely don't find people going "Oh this fanfiction of hermione betraying the order and marrying voldmort changed my perspective of Harry Potter's hermione" you know? -- if that sounds like a stupid example, it's because it is. It's just to show that my whole point is that it's insane to me to let a book ruin another book when the authors are creating different versions of the same characters, which basically turns them into different characters with the same names. Especially since you know, it's all made up. And this isn't real criticism to the people forming their opinions or the authors, respect to all of them.

But it’s a little maddening watching people roll into arguments to discuss what piece of fiction is more real and relevant when they're all in the same level of glorified AO3 works.

I hope this makes sense to someone else

#greek myth retellings #classics #greek mythology #tsoa #tsoa achilles #ancient greek literature #fanfiction #achilles discourse #patrochilles #mention of abuse #literature #mine #percy jackson #the trojans #trojan war #the illiad #odysseus #patroclus #history

[kareenvorbarra]

...I must confront Apollo with his wrongs. To force a girl Against her will and and afterward betray! To leave a child to die which has been born In secret! No! Do not act thus. But since You have the power, seek the virtuous path. All evil men are punished by the gods. How then can it be just for you to stand Accused of breaking laws you have yourselves Laid down for men? But if--here I suppose What could not be--you gave account on earth For wrongs which you have done to women, you, Apollo and Poseidon and Zeus who rules In heaven, payment of your penalties Would see your temples empty, since you are Unjust to others in pursuing pleasure Without forethought. And justice now demands That we should not speak ill of men if they But imitate what the gods approve, but those Who teach men their examples.

Ion (from Ion by Euripides, translated by R. F. Willetts)

#okay i FINALLY read this play and i liked it a lot. there is so much going on here #but right after i read it i found some discourse that i sometimes stumble across in conversations about paganism #about how you can't treat gods like characters who do good or bad things #and that's sort of true? it doesn't really make sense to look at gods in (for example) greek mythology and treat them as wholly good or bad #and i think this applies whether you engage with them as literary characters or as gods (or both). adaptations that do this annoy me! #BUT. you cannot act like ancient societies didn't have moral questions and discussions about their own gods. they absolutely did #ion #apollo #euripides #queue

[sarafangirlart]

It’s amusing to me how ppl say it’s “unrealistic” that disabled ppl exist in fantasy. Meanwhile the ancient Greeks (who were violently ableist mind you) didn’t find it unrealistic that Hephaestus as disabled (wether by birth or injury) not a single source states Apollo heals him or anything like that, he’s allowed to exist as he is, even having epithets of his disability. They had no issue viewing a literal deity as disabled but noooo you can’t have your dnd character use a wheelchair that’s just unrealistic!!!

#Twitter discourse man… #h*tler particles all over that damn app #but especially now that the topic of disability in fantasy is brought up #greek mythology #ancient greek mythology #greek pantheon #greek god #greek myths #hephaestus greek mythology #hephastios #hephaestus god #hephaestus #hephaistos

[hecates-corner]

Bit of a random side note but personally don't love using gay as an umbrella term, I think queer is more open. But that might just be me. I agree that we shouldn't be assigning gods sexualities.

Totally hear that! I suppose it does depend on the person.

I use “queer”, personally, but often refer to myself or other mono-homo-attracted people as “gay”. For example, as a lesbian, I am often labeled as “gay”, in short. It all depends on comfort!

But yes! I see a lot of discourse on if Apollo was pansexual or bisexual, or if Athena was aromantic, or if Artemis was a lesbian, and at some point, it simply gets confusing. The gods never labeled themselves, and did as (and who) they pleased. Who is to say what they were/are?

Labels in general, IMO, should one day fizzle out so we may simply be an Us, and not have to divide ourselves based on differences. Like who you like, do who you do, and let that be enough. That mindset has been fed into the concept of the gods, for me.

Thank you for submitting! I adore hearing your thoughts!

#greek mythology #greek myth #mythology #sexuality #discourse #greek gods #greek goddess #greek pantheon #the olympians #mount olympus #greek mythos #ancient greece #hellenism #hellenic polytheism

[blueheartbookclub]

A Review of "The Eleusinian and Bacchic Mysteries" by Thomas Taylor

"The Eleusinian and Bacchic Mysteries" is an illuminating journey into the heart of ancient Greek religious practices, meticulously explored and vividly presented by the renowned philosopher and translator, Thomas Taylor. This dissertation, complemented by the evocative illustrations of A. L. Rawson, takes readers on a profound exploration of the mystical rituals that shaped the spiritual landscape of ancient Greece.

Thomas Taylor's scholarly expertise in Neoplatonism and his unwavering dedication to preserving the wisdom of the past shine brilliantly in this work. Through his meticulous translation and commentary, Taylor unveils the enigmatic rites and ceremonies of the Eleusinian and Bacchic Mysteries, providing readers with a window into the spiritual world of ancient Greece.

One of the most remarkable aspects of Taylor's work is his ability to convey the deep spiritual significance of these ancient rituals. He delves into the symbolism, mythology, and metaphysical underpinnings of the Mysteries, revealing how they were designed to facilitate personal transformation and spiritual enlightenment. Taylor's profound insights into the mysteries' inner workings give readers a profound understanding of their purpose and significance.

The accompanying illustrations by A. L. Rawson add another layer of richness to this dissertation. Rawson's artistry brings to life the mystical and mythological elements of the rituals, making the ancient world tangible and captivating. These illustrations serve as a visual guide, enhancing the reader's comprehension and engagement with the material.

"The Eleusinian and Bacchic Mysteries" is not merely a historical account but a spiritual odyssey. It invites readers to contemplate the enduring relevance of these ancient practices in the modern world. Taylor's work inspires us to reflect on the importance of initiation, transformation, and the quest for spiritual truth.

In conclusion, "The Eleusinian and Bacchic Mysteries" is a masterpiece of scholarship and spiritual insight. Thomas Taylor's dedication to preserving the wisdom of antiquity and his ability to convey its profound significance make this dissertation an invaluable resource for anyone interested in the spiritual and mystical traditions of ancient Greece. A. L. Rawson's illustrations add a visually captivating dimension to this already enlightening work. It is a must-read for seekers of wisdom, scholars, and those fascinated by the mysteries of the past.

"The Eleusinian and Bacchic Mysteries" by Thomas Taylor is available in Amazon in paperback 13.99$ and hardcover 19.99$ editions.

Length of the Book: 184 pages

Language: English

Rating 8/10

Link of the book!

Review by King's Cat

#Ancient Greek Mysteries #Eleusinian Mysteries #Bacchic Mysteries #Neoplatonism #Spiritual Enlightenment #Rituals and Ceremonies #Symbolism and Mythology #Spiritual Transformation #Thomas Taylor #A. L. Rawson #Ancient Greek Religion #Mystical Traditions #Spiritual Wisdom #Initiation #Metaphysical Insights #Illustrations of Ancient Rituals #Philosophical Discourse #Esoteric Knowledge #Spiritual Quest #Historical Dissertation

[istanbulite]

thinking abt how to write Eos and Tithonus romance......bc Tithonus is a black man, this a depiction of their son Memnon i love this art btw how he s gazing at sunrise, as a son of Dawn

um so Eos is white.. well mediterranean or greek..or anatolian at best. Maybe minoan origins (she s a titan goddess but i mean in looks)

Her mother, Theia is very much against this marriage bc she dislikes humans (in my version) but i realized as she s also white she will come across racist 😳 maybe i will change things a bit....

#greek mythology #greek myth retellings #memnon #tithonus #eos #oc: eos #oc: theia #oc: memnon #oc: tithonus #honestly theia n tithonus will turn out to be similar which ia why they never get along #also there s Theia s.....ideas abt mortals #su.txt #thinking abt the discourse™

[anistrange]

Folks here trying to clean Hades's image of constant demonization because "He's not like that in myth 😭" but when they bump onto the teenager Perseus trying to save his mother suddenly "He's unredeemable because he slew girlboss™ Medusa although he never interacted with her before and by extension he and Andromeda should suffer all the retribution from us 😡"

#greek gods #greek mythology #greek myths #greek myths discourse #perseus #andromeda #medusa #ovid #hesiod #classical mythology #greek and roman classics #zeus

[spocktheestallion]

“oohoohhh percy jackson ruined a generation of classicists boohoohoo oh fiddlesticks boohoo” you realize it’s a childrens series right. for children. it’s whole purpose is to be a beginners introduction to the basic concepts of the classics, specifically to make the classics accessible for young learning disabled kids. it is a beginners manual. a stepping stone meant to SPARK interest in the classics for kids who otherwise never would’ve given them a second thought. like i am an adult right? i am pursuing a college education and career in the field of classics and religious studies, and i recognize that percy jackson is not an official or accurate classical analytical text, and also i would never have gone down this path if not for percy jackson making the classics fun and accessible for me as a child. the people who make this argument seem to judge percy jackson as though it’s meant to be an accurate adaptation of greek studies, and if they’re doing that the fault is on them. because it’s not. it is literally a childrens series taking the basic core concepts of greek mythology and simplifying them and making them fun and accessible to help young children (again, specifically learning disabled children who have been historically excluded from higher academia such as the classics) get into greek mythology. if you are reading the series as an adult who specializes in the field of classical greek studies and going “well this isn’t good bc it sanitizes greek mythology/is too kiddish/is too basic blah-di-blah-di-blah” then you’re a fucking moron. girl it’s not fucking FOR you (a grown ass adult who specializes in and is incredibly knowledgeable about greek mythology). it’s for CHILDREN. and insomuch that it is a CHILDRENS introduction to the BASIC CONCEPTS of greek mythology it is extremely good and effective and has sparked a generations interest in the revival of the classics. maybe there are a couple pop culture details that are a bit skewed or inaccurate, but are you really such an insufferable tight ass that you’d rather this field be inaccessible and boring as possible because now you have an inferiority complex since now most ppl in the general public can name the 12 olympians and you no longer get to feel intellectually superior bc now some facets of greek mythology are common knowledge?

#percy jackson #pjo #percy jackon and the olympians #classics #greek mythology #discourse

[flowerphoenix]

The bull myth

I am sorry for bringing up the bull skin again, but the history/ archeology nerd part of me is crying a bit at some of the inaccuracies regarding the myth/legend and the origin that has popped up in the discussion. 

I am in no way an  expert. This is merley what I have been able to find within a few hours of research so if you have any corrections or links to sources discussing the topic they are more than welcome, as I am very eager to learn more. Unfortunately I have also had quite a few run in with paywalls when it comes to academic publications.

Apologies for funky grammar and spelling errors, English is not my native language.

Warning for discussion of tourture device.

Absolutely no salt to anyone, information and knowledge change all the time and its never easy to know what is ‘’true’’ (In the case of archeology what are the most likely scenarios, based on material findings and the current ideology of how they should be interpreted. Especially interpretations are ever changing)

So to start off with the part that inspired this.

The time period. 

In the post first touching upon the issue with the skin, on the Flameforger's announcement thread, the Brazen bull (In game skin name now Forged automaton) is referred to as a medieval tourture device. So far I have been unable to find a single text mentioning the brazen bull in medieval times. A few mentions of usage during ancient Rome, but all without sources to back them up.

The time period that I have seen mentioned in most texts credits its creation to somewhere before 450 BC in ancient Greece, this being around 1000 years (depending on where in Europe you are) before medieval times. 

Myth or truth 

So this just might be because of English being my secondary language, there might have been something I missed. But I feel like I have seen people stating this as a fact that they learned in history, that it actually existed. 

I have been unable to find a single piece of text referencing an actual material finding of any brazen bulls. 

Sensationall sells. Judging from how far the myth has spread online I feel like it is justified to say that it's already quite famous, and should a find be made the media coverage would likely be huge. Both as the find itself would be physically quite extrordinary and from one of the most popular time periods to study, when it comes to European history. As well as with the myth already sourounding it being so gruesome.

But as it stands, while I am able to find loads of both academic publications/papers and popular culture (articles, youtube videos etc) referencing or telling the myth of the brazen bull, not a single one seems to mention a find of a brazen bull being made. 

While myths can contain grains of truth, the myth of the brazen bull seems to have gone through quite a few retellings. It has been mentioned that the myth might have served as propaganda around the time when it first appeared and there is a huge problem with actually verifying what, if anything, is the truth.

To sum it up I have so far ben unable to find anything to suport the brazen bull being anything more than a myth.

To anyone that made it this far thank you.

 It is getting quite late so I will have to cut my ramblings short here.

I am very tempted to return to this topic with a better written text when it is not the middle of the night and I have had the time to read and compile more academic literature. There seems to be a lot of interesting stuff that popculture intrpretations miss.

For now links to some of the stuff that I did read in part or full within the limited time. I apologize for how few there are as parts of what I wrote was more taken from what was not presented in the material that I found. 

https://www.greecehighdefinition.com/blog/facts-about-the-brazen-bull (click baity title but summed up the main points of the myth that seems to pop up, lacks sources) 

https://arkeonews.net/the-worst-torture-device-in-history-brazen-bull/  (also sums up the main points of what i found, lacks sources)

https://www.um.edu.mt/library/oar/handle/123456789/39415  (while the letters the text discusses are found to not be authentic I found it to be a good example of how the myth has been retold and the scraps of truth it may or may not hold)

#flight rising #flight rising discourse #mythology #legend #brazen bull #greek mythology #ancient greece #torture device #myth

[sarafangirlart]

Oh fuck the Hades game is gonna reignite Aphrodite and Hephaestus’s marriage discourse huh?

Ah well as Hephaestus’s divorce lawyer I’ll have to tell everyone that Aphrodite was in the wrong over and over.

#I shouldn’t be this emotionally invested in this discourse but here we are #maybe it’s bc I don’t like one of the few prominent disabled figures in mythology to be demonized #when the rest of his male relatives are objectively worse #but don’t get nearly the same amount of hate #greek mythology #ancient greek mythology #greek pantheon #Hephaestus #hephaestus x aglaia #hephaestus greek mythology #hephaestus x aphrodite #hephastios #hephaestus god #aphrodite x hephaestus #hephaistos #Aphrodite #aphrodite greek mythology #aphrodite goddess

[blvvdk3ep]

I think my favorite thing about the Odyssey and what it illuminates about Greek culture is the acceptance of deities as being capable of good and evil; growing up Christian, I always saw people do the most intense mental gymnastics in order to rewrite some of God's most maniacal, explicitly cruel actions as being Loving, Actually.

So it's quite the difference seeing Helen say that Zeus is the doer of good and evil, and can choose either at his discretion. And I think for any faith system that goes to such lengths to whitewash evil as Christianity, evil will always be intangible; genocide, cultural colonialism, etc, just can't register as evil acts because God wills it, and God is not evil.

This is not to say that the Greeks were incapable of these things or incapable of cognitive dissonance in committing brutal acts, it's just fascinating that they were capable of acknowledging that their Gods could do evil, but they were going to follow them anyway.

#the odyssey #the illiad #ancient greece #ancient greek mythology #helen of troy #helen of sparta #ancient greek religion #religion #hellenism #Christianity #Hellenistic #religious discussion #discourse #musings

[notanathleteslungs]

So I broke down and listened to Hadestown again, and something that keeps striking me is that Orpheus and Hades are juxtaposed (am I using that right?) against each other. Orpheus says it outright in Epic 3: Hades WAS like Orpheus. But he let his own doubts cloud his mind and, god magic, I imagine it completely changed him. He went from this high tenor seeing hope everywhere to the lowest bass shaking the earth and only relying on what he has done and can do himself.

It’s kind of the same with Persephone and Eurydice, but I think they’re compliments instead of mirrors or opposites. Persephone was completely in love with Hades, but he changed and she didn’t know how to handle it, so she drank. Eurydice knew what she was getting into and it might have been hard when winter came and she was finding food and fire for the both of them all by herself, but she SAW what Orpheus was doing and knew it was worth finishing. In the end, she doesn’t care that he can give what he promised her in Wedding Song, she just wants to be with him.

We have these two couples set against each other: the old couple who might need a bit of therapy to work out their issues, and the young couple who went in with eyes wide open, endured their tests, and were ready to walk out with complete faith in each other.

That might be why Orpheus giving in to his doubts and turning back is even more heartbreaking. He went to the Underworld, endured beatings, and stood up to the King of the Dead for the woman he loved. After all that, he still lost faith in her and lost her. I found a bootleg recording on YouTube of an early performance and the emotion when Eurydice is still trying to get back to Orpheus in the tunnel made me want to cry. She had complete faith in him and I think that snapped him out of it. There was kind of an Oh Shit What Did I Just Do as he just sits there before walking out of the tunnel. It’s a sad thought, but I think after they died, we have two outcomes: the Fates punished him for his doubts by never letting him see Eurydice again, or they were reunited in death.

Or a third that plays in my head sometimes: thanks to Percy Jackson there’s the thing with reincarnation. I know in the books it’s for heroes who died well to try for the Isles of the Blest. What if Hermes swayed Hades and let Orpheus and Eurydice reincarnate? Aphrodite might have had a hand there too.

I don’t know, it’s after 9PM, I woke up with a migraine at 2AM, and I wake up at 5AM for work, this just wouldn’t leave me alone.

#Hadestown #pjo #Greek mythology #I don’t know where else to put this #not proof read beyond Did My Phone Change In to I’m Again Or Not Correct A Typo #I welcome discourse as long as it’s not You’re Dead Wrong #I just want to know what other people think

[jewishdainix]

i'm sorry a discourse blog said you seem like you read lore olympus???? i'd die on the fucking spot holy shit

i made a post poking fun at zeus apologists (which is a thing i discoverd existed) and I think they were specifically looking for posts like mine because their entire blog was filled with discourse about the same thing.

I ddint reconise the name lore olympus and i only connected it to the weird comic i saw videos about after an anon told me it was a comic. i am still processing it.

#asks #they said i seem like the type of person that treats hades like an uwu goth boy. i dont treat greek gods like anything? #cuz i have a tendency not to fandomise/romanticise ancient religions #and like adaptations are their own thing. some better than others. but i know how to separate them from thousands of years of #different characterzations and interpitations that make up greek mythology. #and i certinally dont read lore olympus #no hate to it again i havnt read it i just think it's kind of silly #and i certinally do not. activaly engage with mythology discourse. like. they were looking for posts like mine.

[the-witch-with-the-raven-tattoo]

This cat, by virtue of belonging to Sailor Venus, should have been named Aphrodite, not Artemis. Change my mind.

#sailor moon discourse #aesthetic #sailor venus #sailor moon #greek mythology #greek mythology names #also why is he male