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maikingsenseofit · 2 years

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The Grand Maiko Defense Post

Okay so I originally meant this to be a reblog for a post referencing my post - but I decided it would be better standalone - and in order to avoid controversy (something I attract a lot of) it would be better to try and not invoke any direct mentions - considering the last time I did I was flooded with troll posts shipping Mai and her infant brother.

That being said - this is long and juicy. This is the reference post:

I made my original post debunking common anti Maiko arguments off of this premise, right here:

“If Mai truly knew Zuko, she’d know that he wouldn’t be comforted by ordering servants around.”

I concede that the hot towel part wasn’t the best evidence. However, like OP admits -

“and also because yes, like any normal person, he does enjoy having people do things for him. Hence the little smile, the reassurance that it’s okay for him to be pampered, which assuages some of the guilt he’s been feeling since Ba Sing Se. He’s the prince, he can tell himself, he deserves it. That’s also why he takes the time to show off to his girlfriend a little a scene later by offering her anything she wants.”

Mai’s immediate thought to cheer up Zuko is to offer him the same things that cheered him up - or at least made him smile , which we explicitly see in both scenes-five minutes before. Mai obviously knows that Zuko is unhappy and is experiencing emotional turmoil. That is once again covered in The Beach episode. But despite all his emotional anguish, discomfort, and guilty conscious- he does eventually accept and revel in some of the comforts associated with being fire nation royalty. We explicitly see him smiling, accepting, and taking the palanquin ride or happily ordering fruit tarts for Mai. His guilty conscious here, no matter how powerful, wasn’t strong enough for him to completely disavow every and all of the comforts he was offered as a product of trying to be the perfect fire nation prince.

But let’s try and understand my main point here and something else I thought of while writing this. Zuko’s emotional turmoil isn’t meant to be assuaged by a palanquin ride or fruit tarts. Mai initially offers it because her immediate thought is to cheer Zuko up. Mai, as a character, is taught to be restrained with her emotions and there is an explicit parallel between what her mom says to her in Omashu “Mai your father was appointed Governor here. Be happy and enjoy it.” And what Mai says on the ship is “Stop Worrying.” As a product of her environment, she never learned how to sit with her emotions and truly understand the root of her issues. So yes, her immediate thought is to cheer Zuko up at least in a superficial way, because that is what she’s conditioned to believe all along - that emotions can simply be willed away.

Except it doesn’t work. And Mai doesn’t force it to work or become angry or frustrated at Zuko when he doesn’t listen to her. She lets him go. I cannot emphasize the importance of this enough. To say that Mai fundamentally doesnt understand Zuko - and in the same vein failing to acknowledge that after her attempt at cheering him up didnt work, Mai doesn’t get angry or frustrated. She realizes that this is a problem fruit tarts cannot solve and that what Zuko is going through is much deeper and he needs time and space to process this. So she does exactly that - she gives him the time and space to process his emotional turmoil.

She knows Zuko is experiencing difficulty, and although she is not privy to why he is experiencing it (unlike Iroh, she wasn’t there in Ba Sing Se and we never see Zuko explaining his entire journey to her (and yes I will address the life story part)) she offers him care and company - despite her limitations. Something we see was never offered to her - by her parents or her best friends, especially Azula. And to emphasize for what feels like the millionth time, Zuko and Mai are both products of emotionally abusive, unhappy families and childhoods. They never learned the right way to cope with emotions or to help others cope with their emotions. What we see here is Mai undoing what she learned by sticking with Zuko instead of shutting him down or attempting to Will away his emotions after her first offer.

To reiterate- She might not know the full reason why he’s feeling the way he is - but she knows he’s hurting, needs a shoulder to lean on, someone to accompany him during this difficult time. She knows he has had a troubled past and isn’t fully accepted or loved by his own family. It’s not easy being the girlfriend of one of the most complex people in the story. She’s a teenager - there are plenty of other Fire Nation nobles who she could sit and bitch with and order fruit tarts all day long. But she loves Zuko and she tries her best to be there for him. That is undeniable and canonically evidenced.

Part 2: regarding Mai’s purpose. Let’s analyze Mai’s purpose and relation to Zuko’s arc through a different lens, one in which she represents the hero’s goddess in the hero’s journey. For this, I’m going to reference another brilliant author, jill_rg on Live Journal, who states the following:

“Zuko knows what he has to do: join the Avatar and prepare him to defeat Fire Lord Ozai once and for all. It should be an easy decision. After all, what will he miss? Not his father, not the pomp and pleasure of palace life, not the glory and respect of his people; he believes ending the war and bringing about peace is what is best for his own country as well as the world. He knows he is doing the right thing, and he won’t miss anything he leaves behind. No, it would be too easy if there wasn’t one thing he regretted leaving behind, one thing he would miss, one thing he cared about: Mai.”

In short, Mai is the one tie to the fire nation that Zuko, our hero, has to narratively sacrifice to fulfill his journey. He can’t attain happiness or true enlightenment until he fully realizes his destiny, and in order to do that he must leave Mai behind.His sacrifice of their relationship makes his decision all the more heroic and poignant. The pain he suffers from making this decision makes it all the more meaningful - showing that it wasn’t easy for him to embark on the journey to teach Aang and a personal sacrifice had to be made for the greater good. Mai matches this sacrifice in the narrative by jeopardizing her life, her personal relationship with Zuko - for the greater good.

This makes Mai Zuko’s goddess, a trope and characterization that has been explored multiple times throughout popular hero’s journeys from The Odyssey to Star Wars. According to Jill-rg, who quotes Joseph Campbell from A Hero With a Thousand Faces,

“The role of the Goddess is more than a love interest; she is a powerful force in the hero's life and represents the fulfillment of all his desires. She can be a protective force who holds the power he needs to achieve his quest. When he falls, she will save him. When he succeeds, she will reward him. According to Campbell, she represents the totality of what can known, and "the hero is the one who comes to know."

What I see many anti-Maiko/pro Zutara people do is confuse Mai being Zuko’s goddess with Mai being Zuko’s temptress - a character in the hero’s journey who represents the fulfillment of all the hero’s desires at a cost. The temptress leads the hero down a self destructive path - and it’s little wonder who I’m talking about : Azula. Azula promises Zuko everything he ever wanted - to come back to the fire nation a crown prince with the respect of his father that he fought so hard to earn. But there are malicious intentions behind this promise - and if Zuko doesn’t comply with Azula’s expectations, it will lead to dire consequences.

“Mai further lives up to her role when she opposes the Temptress. Azula wants to destroy Zuko, but Mai does not let that happen. Zuko and Azula battle in The Boiling Rock, and she thinks he will be killed, but he is saved by Mai. Mai's protective force proves to be more powerful than Azula's destructive force. Azula brings Zuko the curse of spiritual death; Mai gives him the gift of life.”

The main point here is Zuko needs Mai in the narrative - she saves his life. She eventually realizes her position of fulfilling Zuko’s destiny, instead of leading it astray like Azula does. She represents a tangible, personal sacrifice that Zuko has to give up in order to fulfill his destiny - and she matches it by doing the exact same thing. We have two people here who love each other so deeply but cannot truly end up together UNTIL they fulfill their own responsibilities and roles. If this isn’t the bedrock for a beautiful relationship, I don’t know what is. Also - please refer to this link if you’re wondering why Katara doesn’t serve as Zuko’s narrative goddess:

This next part is something that I disagree with so much that I’m just going to state my piece and go. Part of online discourse is recognizing when nothing will change how someone views a character - so I’m just going to state my piece and leave it be.

Zuko was angry, irritable, and emotionally disregulated the entire beach trip. From the very first scene

Zuko [Cut to closer view of Zuko and Mai. Angrily.] Doing nothing is a waste of time. [Rises from his seat next to Mai.] We're being sent away on a forced vacation. [Walks over and grips the railing of the boat.] I feel like a child.

Then, as I mention in my other meta, despite Mai explicitly saying she doesn’t like sea shells, Zuko offers her the first thing he sees and erupts when she rejects it. Zuko accuses Mai of being attracted to another guy - when she barely even looked at him - and then erupts in a jealous fit of anger when Mai is simply having a conversation with another guy. Yet despite all his unjust behavior towards her - Mai is the one to offer the olive branch for Zuko by reaching out to him first in an attempt to offer support. Yet she is spurned again by Zuko.

Mai [Side-view. Hesitating at first.] Hey.

Zuko [View of both from behind. Turning to Mai.] Where's your new boyfriend?

Now to address the most ridiculous thing in this whole post - that “Mai only shows she cares for Zuko when she doesn’t have to support him emotionally” let’s look at this scene, where Mai, along with Ty Lee and Azula, helps Zuko divulge the root of his pain and why he’s so angry at himself - instead of shutting him down or feigning disinterest, like you allege she does throughout the show. She genuinely cares. She puts in the work to help him - at the height of him externalizing his emotion, symbolized literally and figuratively when the flames erupt around him.

Also, internalizing emotions means to keep emotions bottled up. Externalizing emotions means to vocalize them and act on them, btw :)

Zuko [Close-up.] No one. I'm just angry.

Mai [Side-view of the three girls.] Yeah, who are you angry at, Zuko?

Which is in direct contrast to what you claimed here:

“At no point does Mai dig into the root of why he is angry.”

“At no point did she offer him emotional support when he was in turmoil.”

But Wait - here she is quite literally providing him emotional support when he’s in turmoil, because despite him revealing that he’s angry at himself, it still does not pacify his feelings of turmoil and how his moral compass has gone awry. Yet despite all his anger, Mai takes a stand next to Zuko - showing she truly cares for him when no one else does. And it is exemplified by the small expression of relief on his face.

Now to counter this point:

“ That also means Mai can get Zuko back without having to do any of the hard emotional or ethical work herself.”

Im not going into the ethics or morality of Mai because I believe she falls under the ideology of putting herself and the people she cares about above ideals and morals. Explained in another meta, but basically she’s the Avatar version of Katniss Everdeen. And I answered why that doesn’t make her incompatible with Zuko in my “Yin and Yang” meta. But to claim that Mai is never introspective or doesn’t do any hard emotional work or is just wrong. And heres why:

Zuko [Aerial view of campsite. Walking up to the campfire.] I'm sorry, too. I wish you would be high-strung and crazy for once instead of keeping all your feeling bottled up inside. [Frontal view.] She just called your aura dingy. Are you gonna take that?

Mai [Aerial view of campsite. Leaning back.] What do you want from me? You want a teary confession about how hard my childhood was? Well, it wasn't. [Close-up.] I was a rich only child who got anything I wanted ... as long as I behaved [Cut to shot of the sky.] and sat still, and didn't speak unless spoken to. [Close-up of Zuko.] My mother said I had to keep out of trouble. We had my dad's political career to think about.

Zuko wants Mai to express herself and her emotions instead of keeping it all bottled up inside, something that we’ve seen she’s been trained to do not only from her mom (like you yourself acknowledge) but from her own account. Instead of resorting to her apathetic demure, she takes the second to consider what Zuko says - and decides to not take what Ty Lee said and move on - she addresses it. She reveals why she keeps up the “I don’t care about anything” facade. She does the emotional work. But it that wasn’t prove enough, Zuko still wants her to express her emotions and to break free from that facade. And what does she do?

Zuko: “I like it when you express yourself.”

Mai: “you want me to express myself? LEAVE ME ALONE.”

Mai: “I love Zuko, more than I fear you.”

So to claim that Mai never had character development, or that she, Like Zuko, didnt learn or grow from her past self is a deliberate and malicious interpretation of canon to support another ship or character. And what better to exemplify then the very next part of your argument?

“She’s the only one other than Iroh because she helped put Iroh in prison. You can argue about how loyal she is to Azula and whether she had a choice, but the fact of the matter is that the reason Iroh ain’t around, and Mai is the only one Zuko has to rely on, is because Iroh is in prison and Mai and Zuko would not have a relationship otherwise.”

W. H. A. T. What WHAT WHATTTTTTTT?

Are you forgetting that Zuko literally betrayed Iroh moments before? That his decision to join his sister meant rejecting his uncle and that Zuko knew that by doing this Iroh would suffer the consequences? Since I guess we all need a refresher let’s look at the Avatar wiki:

Mai was on Azula’s team, but Zuko made the deliberate choice to betray Iroh - knowing that it would brand Iroh as a traitor and result in his imprisonment. So what is the argument here? That Mai imprisoned Iroh? So she could continue a relationship with Zuko? That Mai would have imprisoned Zuko too? This is genuinely misogynistic. This entire paragraph reeks of making a woman culpable for something she literally didn’t even do - literally ignoring Zuko’s éxplicit and deliberate decision - to thereby prove some sort of point that I don’t even quite understand.

The real fact of the matter is that “the reason Iroh ain’t around, and Mai is the only one Zuko has to rely on” is because of ZUKO’s decisions and choices. He chose this. And yes relationships are all borne out of conditional necessity. Let’s look at Zuko and Katara. The only reason why Zuko makes amends to Katara and had to be introspective and evaluate his own decisions is because she was the only person in the Gaang who wouldn’t accept him. If Katara didn’t verbalize how upset she was in front of Zuko and the Gaang, he would have never asked “Why is your sister so mad at me?” And even then didn’t understand or remember the extent of his betrayal until Katara explicitly stated that she was the first person to trust Zuko.

Again, ship who you want to ship. But if you’re going to, in good faith I presume, evaluate a relationship based on its conditional necessity - let’s look at one where if it wasn’t for a mission and Zuko’s decision to enter the Gaang again - Zuko would have never apologized or reflected on how he deeply hurt a person who offered to heal his scar, despite being enemies.

Now why do I point out Mai being concerned for Zuko’s safety or Mai listening to Zuko when he talks - despite you considering it to be “low bars?” Because time and time again - this is how anti Maiko/pro Zutaras characterize Mai. They conveniently ignore the times where she a) actually listens to Zuko instead of shutting him down or b) shows genuine care for him or his safety. Let’s make something else clear here. It might be a low bar for Aang, or Katara, or Suki - all of which are characters who have loving parents, mostly happy families, and were loved or cared for by their community. Mai - like Zuko, Azula, or Ty Lee - did not have that. She had a mom who shut her down instead of allowing her to express her emotions. She had to put on a facade of apathy and not caring for anything or anyone because she was conditioned to behave or face the consequences - both by her parents and Azula. In the same way Azula fans especially cherish and mention moments where she expresses empathy - even though it’s a low bar for any other character- we do for Mai because it represents growing from her past instead of regressing back to coping mechanisms.

I have again wrote another meta where Mai learns how to cope with others emotions from her mom. In the same way her mom shuts her down when Mai explains “her life story” she does the same thing to Zuko. There’s no denying that. But to characterize her WHOLE arc or her WHOLE relationship based on her actions in the beginning instead of how she learns and grows in the end. It’s like taking the fact that Zuko called Katara a “water peasant” at the beginning of the show and saying Zuko never changed or their relationship never changed from the beginning. It’s discounting the times where Mai ASKS Zuko for his life story “Yeah Zuko who are you really angry at?” Or “How did the war meeting go?” And sits there and listens to it. Yes the scenes are cut off - but not because Mai cuts Zuko off or shuts him down. So to say that -“it was enough to convince Zuko that he couldn’t confide in her in person about his realization that he needed to leave and join the Avatar and restore honor to the Fire Nation” is in direct contradiction to when he says “I’m angry at myself because I don’t know the difference from right or wrong” and “I was the perfect prince but I wasn’t me” or “Im doing this to save my country” where Zuko DOES confide in her in person ABOUT his realization. He attempts to reason with her because some core aspect of him believes he can confide in her. Also the last thing Mai does in the Boiling Rock is turn her head. For me it shows she’s frustrated, but yeah, I don’t see her refusing to listen to him. But I guess THATS up to interpretation? Lol?

But does Mai really understand why Zuko did what he did?

Let’s see - she puts her own life on the line and risks facing the wrath of Azula to ensure Zuko and his friends arrive safely. Straight from your words - Why would she stand up to Azula unless she had a realization that Zuko’s life and mission were more important than selfishly clinging to her relationship with him?

But she did that just to save his life! She still doesn’t understand his values or his mission!

Yet when Zuko returns to the fire nation - Mai helps him get dressed. She’s not angry that he dumped her to run off with his friends. She knows that he had to do that because it was the right thing to do and his destiny. That’s why when Zuko asks Mai “does this mean you don’t hate me anymore” Mai answers “It means I actually kind of like you.” If she didn’t understand why he did what he did and that he truly never meant to hurt her and that this mission was more important than his own life - why would she reconcile with him at the end? The answer is right there - and you yourself said it.

Both Mai and Zuko, along with every other character in the series, had to sacrifice something personally for the greater good.

But she demands Zuko stay in a relationship with her!

And the inevitable next step - which is Mai “was abusing Zuko and threatening him into staying with her.” Cracks knuckles.

The difference between one statement and an actual, credible threat is intent. The viewer needs to critically think at junctions like these and determine authoral and character intent.

Throughout the season, we never see Mai control or demand Zuko into staying in a relationship with her. Her intent is not to make and force Zuko into being her boyfriend. The evidence?

1. During The Beach - Mai breaks up with Zuko when he’s acting like an ass. She is willing to walk away from a relationship. She doesn’t force herself to stay or for Zuko to stay.

2. At The Boiling Rock, Mai is willing to die for Zuko to live. She betrays Azula - knowing that it means Zuko makes it safely and she’ll face death. Mai made This decision knowing she couldn’t be in a relationship with Zuko or that they would be together after that.

Not once do I see in any of Mai’s actions or interactions an attempt to control or possess or force Zuko into staying with her. To be frank, I see it in Zuko given his actions on The Beach and also how he literally orders Mai to stay in the comics (that’s beside the point).

But I’m not someone to say how a character should feel about something they interpret as potentially abusive or threatening - cause most times it’s a reflection of their own personal history. But I’m simply describing what the authors intended, what 99% of the people who watched the show saw, and what Mai and Zuko fans see. I think @attackfish did a really great job explaining this here:

“she clearly expects to die for it. Again, there is no vindictiveness here, no attempt to punish Zuko for leaving her, in spite of the fact that she is obviously hurt. Instead she performs an act of profound love and sacrifice.”

“And this is why her joke in the finale works, because when she tells Zuko “Don’t ever break up with me again,” she is reminding him, and the audience of the last time he did, when she “sav[ed] the jerk who dumped [her].” Zuko, it’s also clear understands the joke for what it is, since after giving her a nervous, guilty, little smile, he relaxes happily into her arms.”

both of the times Zuko left her - he put his own life at risk. And given that Mai cares about Zuko’s safety and has quite literally saved his life - this means that she doesn’t want him to die again but if he were to put himself in a compromising position (she would begrudgingly save his life, again).

The real reason why he left her - someone who we see disobey Azula and joins random missions for fun is because in CANON he says he does it to protect her.

“Everyone in the fire nation thinks I’m a traitor. I couldn’t drag her into it.”

Above all, Zuko loves Mai. He wants to protect her. And if it meant protecting her physically but hurting her emotionally in order to save her from Azula’s wrath - he does it. But little does he know that Mai is willing to face the consequences of being a traitor to protect Zuko. That’s why I love Maiko everyone.

Now that most of the exposition is done, here are bullet proof points to refute the rest of your arguments:

1. “Zuko doesn’t pick up on this because he’s desperate for his father’s approval, but he will after the meeting. Mai doesn’t pick up on it because she doesn’t really know Zuko or his inner turmoil, nor does she really understand the depth of how evil the Fire Nation really is.”

Zuko HIMSELF doesn’t know the depth or extent of his inner turmoil at this point. Mai understands that he’s feeling confused and angry, Zuko understands that he’s feeling confused and angry, yet neither of them fully know or have the solution to assuage his problems. He comes to this realization at the end of the episode. Mai understands that Zuko is an emotionally complex teenager who was raised in a less than loving environment. He’s experiencing difficulties right now and moral and emotional conflict - she doesn’t understand the full extent of it, but neither does Zuko:

Because I'm confused. Because I'm not sure I know the difference between right and wrong anymore.

So what does she do in the mean time? She listens to him - an effective and safe sound board for him to come to terms with his emotions, tries to rationalize with him, and when that doesn’t work a provides him company, and trusts him and believes him.

2. “Nor do I think she really understands the very real danger he is in, otherwise she wouldn’t be happy when Zuko does go to the meeting, knowing what happened to him the last time he attended one. Because Zuko is not safe any time Ozai has access to him.”

Except wouldn’t Zuko also face the consequences of refusing to attend a war meeting he was specifically asked to attend by his abusive and overwhelmingly powerful? ISNT that why Mai waits outside of the war meeting the whole time so she can ensure that Ozai didn’t do anything to Zuko, moreover that Zuko wasn’t harmed - unlike the last war meeting he attended?

3. “How did she hold him accountable? By deciding that she cares about him after he internalizes his anger and the conversation is over?”

Right here:

Zuko [Side-view of Mai.] My life hasn't been that easy either, Mai.

Mai Whatever. That doesn't excuse the way you've been acting.

And Shit on Bryke as much as you want but they do an incredible and powerful job of conveying something that all children need to hear:

And that's a great line [Laughs.] from Mai. [Katie laughs.] Like she's, she's like she knows, [Katie affirms.] you know, [Katie gives affirming murmurs intermittently.] she knows, she's li-Z-Zuko her-her whole life, she knows his life's been intense, but, that's a good line that it doesn't excuse the way you've been acting, and at a certain point everyone has to take responsibility for... the choices they're making and rise above the things that happen to them. And, you know, that's, everybody's dealt a different deck of cards, but that's the-ultimately the challenge, is can you... rise above your sit-your situation, and-and kind of solidify your own identity.

4. “Morality and redeemable actions, as it happens, absolutely are two of those conditions that love depends on. if person you love doesn’t have morals that align to yours and doesn’t have redeeming qualities in your eyes, then there’s nothing to base the relationship on”

I concede - I could have done a better job explaining this. So I’m going to explain what I was referencing here.

For Zuko and Katara - morality and redeemable actions are the ONLY pillars on which a relationship would work. Katara makes this very clear when she makes a tangible (and extremely well justified) threat to Zuko:

“So let me tell you something right now... you make one step backward, one slip up, give me one reason to think you might hurt Aang, and you won't have to worry about your destiny anymore, because I will make sure your destiny ends... right then and there... permanently.”

Conditional in the sense Zuko had to prove himself worthy to Katara - and Katara only fucks with Zuko as long as he doesn’t hurt Aang and pays for his actions. A relationship solely condition on morality and redeemable actions. Because if Zuko were to ever hurt Aang in the future even after the show ended- there would be no relationship between him and Katara. And if Zuko never redeemed himself for his actions - there would never be a relationship between him and Katara.

Sure all relationships require people to be morally aligned and have redeemable qualities - but if those are the ONLY pillars for the core of your relationship - it’s a much more tenuous bedrock - not even bedrock actually- for a solid relationship. Something to consider before launching into dissertations about why the canon relationships won’t work.

Oof my fingers are tired. Also I’m tired. Of explaining why Mai fulfills Zuko’s needs yadayadayada. My next post will be about how Zuko fulfills Mai’s needs. Cause let’s make this shit equal.

#mai #zuko #avatar the last airbender #atla #atla maiko #maiko #pro maiko #ANTI #anti zutara #I #MEAN IT #indefenseofmaiandmaiko #maikoforeverbitches

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baeddelations · 5 months

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I think this part of my loathing of seeing this article passed around "i am tw, iam staying in the closet" bc it is a diary entry that was explicitly not supposed to be advice or a rubric. She origanilly aays its just 1 narrative to take in then when it gets past around she says hey this was me venting i didnt intend for anyone to read this.

I think this is the major interest in this piece. A view into the interiority of a tw whos been closeted for 20 yrs and her personal xp growin up then being a closeted tw in a University WGS dept. Some ppl might call this a fetishistic interest in the interiority of this tw, oh how they love poking around in the frankenstein monsters guts, poking his brain to see what horrid mismatched limb will jump.

I think the main reason @autolenaphilia interacted with this is bc this article was passed around by a bunch of transmisogynist who are adpting and pulling together the transmisogyny of jeniffer and her recounting of cismanhating that exists in primarily cisfeminist spaces and by extension radical and queer spaces. Jennifer does not bring up cafab transness or transmasculinity once in this article yet it is cited as inspiration for truther framework.

I do think the way that jennifer talks about not wanting to acquiesce is kinda built on a faulty conjecture which is that if she transitioned she would be able to talk about femininity in these spaces... at one point she says this probably wouldnt be true(mb just for her) but then goes back to the original argumentation on many occasions. This argumentation taken to conlusion posits that it is easier to discourse or even exist in those spaces as a tw than as a cis man that u will be more include and less ridiculed. At the time of this article she had never actually tried out this proposition, so she never got to see how this prop is at least in all the copius amounts of personal and anecdotal xp i have false. But this prop is useful for ppl who want push tw have it easier and that men are reviled for being men. Enter prager xcuse me truthers.

I also hate internalized oppression framework, imo it is an idpol tool used to shift blame from the brainwashed oppressed to som aspirational that oppressive ideology comes naturally to. Is she promoting transmisogynistic ideas? Yah, shes not bad for this but it is why its useful to truthers, and part of why it hurts to read as a tw.

@autogyne-redacted i do think its hard to see point 1, 2, and 5 of y shes not trnsn nd say these arent related to passibility. Repercussion are often contingent with passablity. Movin towards phys transn being dysphoria inducing is connected with what expectations of feminity u hav and how u line up with them(i also xp this). And the gap thing is imo her wishing she could be passable w ease and recognizing she cant so settling and saying its not worth it to try.

I think lena is apply a broader scope of trans xp to jennifers xp i dnt think this is even necessarily harmful and i dnt think shes even saying jen is wrong for it shes saying her words are easy to coopt that they are capering to these tmras which they are however unitentionally. U could also take things ive said in the past and warp them into tmra shit. I fortunately didnt write these things in a medium article. She is handling in other ways and this is wut conv therapy wants... thats what it seems they go for a lot again doesnt mean jen is bad nd lena doest say shes wrong for this. The only thing lena says is she doesnt want this for herself thats not restricting jens autonomy. And that the article and responses made her sick. They made me feel bad too. This isnt necessarily a moral judgement. It could be but idk.

All this is a dissection. I hate it. I wish her vent diary post wasnt being aired, analyzed, and discoursed. Im doing it right now ffs! It makes me want to leave the internet. I hope ppl stop talkn bout it...but they wont bc the corpse of this diary can be a useful weapon against tw so itll keep gettn used.

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clay-pidgeon · 5 months

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you keep talking about eridan pyrope

give us the deets

eridan is a character who i do Not fucking like but is also extremely interesting/entertaining to me. so yeah rambles under the cut

heres my “notes” section in his doc

Eridan Pyrope, instead of being a military history obsessed douche, is a law history obsessed douche. It’s just slightly warping his thing so he’s got a sliiiightly different lense to be a dick about. On the “i’m mean to Eridan” note: what the fuck is up with that trolltag? I came up with it, but it’s still kinda stupid. “Garnishment” refers to a very specific law thing (it’s like an auspitice for owed money I think? Phrasing it for the homestucks) that isn’t particularly applicable to what Eridan Pyrope does (which is be a shithead lawyerboy) and “corrupt” is just outwardly stating he’s a dick with an interestingly warped view of justice. His quirk is me turning v and w upside down—look at that, it’s an n and a m. This leads to a couple weird cases of pronunciation, but I don’t really care enough about this guy to expand on that. “Innsanne” kinda looks weird and you might pronounce it with a short a. Bam, done, I don’t have to talk about this guy anymore. His situation with Feferi is similar to how it is in canon, but with the added danger of Flarping—they’re moirails, he wants to be matesprits, she doesn’t really want to be either and just wants to stop having to deal with all his melodramatic Eridan bullshit. Rightfully so.

i could talk at length about how i frequently go “eridan sucks and i dont like him” in this thing, but nevertheless write about himfor 200 straight words. i literally say “I don’t have to talk about this guy anymore” and then…talk about him more . Right after explaining a bit of his quirk i explicitly stated i didnt want to talk about. my thing about eridan is that, yeah, i dont like him (the murder, the “nice guy” thing, the genocide-y tendencies) but hes also VERY interesting to me. hes just so shitty in a way thag entertains me. obligatory “he was raised on Planet Murder” also. tldr Eridan is so shitty and interesting about how shitty he is

a thing i didnt touch on in the note is his classpect, newly pyroped, is prince of mind—destroyer of logic, i guess. as a prince, he embodies the aspect of heart which is pretty literal in his (if failed) romantic endeavors and emotion-driven decisioms (he IS 13 tho tbf) AND hes driven to irrationality Very Very Notably in bloodswitch murderstuck

since every fucking plotline i think of has to be stupidly circular and complicated (i didnt even touch on bloodswitch hivebent, which is even MORE convoluted but doesnt include eridan in a large way) bloodswitch murderstuck is a chain of events: feferi serket goes missing on the meteor, eridan gets anxious and starts pointing fingers, goes grimdark (like in canon) and starts murdering (rip vriska. for like 10 minutes) and knocks equius vantas unconscious, also revealing his blood color. then eridan pyrope gets vengefully murdered by a clown catgirl right as feferi returns from her meteor exploration trip . it gets worse from there probably but thats the main thing

i reference him having a v warped sense of justice in my notes—specifically calling him “corrupt.” (hes 13 jesus fuck me from. last night. this was an exaggeration tho) i think the guy uses law and justice to further his own agenda, probably in a similar way to the “made for each other” thing in feferis case, and also as a way to exert control in a kinda mind-y way, citing logic in more emotion-based decisions he makes to justify (hehehehe) them

his ancestor (they are unnamed rn :[) was murdered by nepetas, because i heart funky parallels forever and ever and also because dualscar got murdered by ghb in canon so thats pretty easy. he was probably some sort of personal lawyer of cerulean condesce? unsure. point is this funky little lawyerboy is getting so many words out of my idiot head

#dove chirps #my stuff #homestuck #dove asks #bloodswap #bloodswitch

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frankiistein · 2 months

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ok so some more thoughts related 2 last time

breadavota consistently does this writing choice of glossing over extreme events and "watering down" emotional aspects, examples from the top of my head:

- the whole thing with jacques where he superficially acts like a self-absorbed unappreciative bitch living his spoiled princess life, a perception reinforced by how were told life outside the court sucks but were rarely shown glimpses of in what ways

pushing the point that jacques parents loved him and didnt abuse him, even the bonus animatic of his childhood ("quiet") shows other village kids like him instead of the stereotypical bullying, he had friends in college, people on the jesennian court tried to be nice to him etc., jacques already few itneractions with people who arent media are intent on portraying him as this whiny little baby that i think its easy to skip over the implication that jacques is generally powerless in their society

- the nature of the experiments done on bon and the personal relationship they had with jacques and media as parent figures and how that affects their style to parent bien

- biens own experiences growing up in exile and how that lead to his weird incestuous obsession with bon

- ava traumadumping how media usurped her and entirely skipping the ending of her story where she describes the recursive panopticon

- the spinal cord surgery event which we dont see at all, we just know it happened-and interestingly enough the sarbien scenes right after all hide bien showing only sars pov

- receptions "birth" and the implications of their dependence/loyalty on media

- literally all of bread's pre-trial existence

hiding backstory stuffs not a unique choice at all ofc but when paired with how alot of the story is sliceoflifey or at times written with this... detachment? like metaphorically the camera is far away from the scene, 4 me i think it gives off an interesting atmosphere. its like a portrayal of mentally ill or traumatized ppl where instead of the "nicer" portrayal of delving into their internal feelings and contextualizing their maladaptive behaviors with clear presentations of the trauma that made them that way, alot of the characters are just unpleasant.

al niente, the sarbien scenes and it always rains also add a layer of complexity to the decision to gloss over certain "major" events: the dominant one is portrayed as sympathetic or at least their emotions are delved on, and theyre always written in a monologue style where they are talking to the person theyre dominant over and that person doesnt say a single word in the text.

we get an entire monologue of bon grieving bien but also subtly insulting him, as if bons loss of bien is more tragic for than it is for bien himself even

sar treats bien "kindly" but has this condescending ableist subtext to all their interactions

and it always rains is probably the one i like the best. in a story where people get cut in half onscreen and where supernatural magical alien monsters exist one of the most uncanny chapters is as "mundane" as media drowning jacques in a bathtub. and the writing style of that chapter, the surreal dreamlike way of writing where its not fully clear whats happening (if media didnt explicitly say they were in the bathroom it might be hard to tell that what hes even doing to jacques), his unawareness that hes killing someone because hes in this trancelike states of being preoccupied with a vague feeling of "love", the way jacques, like bien, never says a word or has their pov explicitly shown

like, the story doesnt completely remove those characters hinting at what went "wrong" or how they try to cope with it. but the story frames them in such passing ways that its easy to gloss over if ur not obsessing over every line like i am lol, and again the story is able to do this so effectively by using character monologues or a snarky narrator that words those attempts at seizing control of their own lives in a funny but dismissive way

i think like a duck does this best by framing jacques as a funny quirky schizo and the narration being biased to medias pov

jacques desire for real food is about his eccentric beliefs in the Psychic Differences Between Real And Object Porridge, wanting to be the best-dressed person in the grocery store is silly childish conceit and also media thinks its attention whoreish but in a #niceguy way, being concerned about having chips in his brain is stupid and irrational never mind the fact he lives with a guy who does in fact put chips inside of people (its like their whole thing lol!!!), eating the free samples when media isnt looking is idiotic of him

i think all the other me/ja interactions are like this too but they all have this strong tone of jacques being a mentally not-all-there child and media being like a pseudo-parental figure with a bias of making jacques look stupid, irrational and immature

this especially:

the story "slips" by admitting jacques acts thid way because his minor harmless quirks r rly the only control he has in his life, and then immediately stupidifies him again by sarcastically saying hell act like a rational adult by pretending to be dead

its not just jacques but a good number of the characters: the story hints to some traumac it builds up the idea that were gonna tell u what it is then... it immediately backtracks into how stupid and irrational they are for acting that way

this separate observations r disjointed asf ikik but taken all together they give 2 me this unique atmosphere of the harms and abuses the characters facing as "realer" and somehow more justified, where the victims of not just other characters but the world they live in itself r framed by the narrative as pathetic childish idiots for no "real" reason, where acknowledgment of their sensitivies is done in passing and portrayed jokingly, its a story that simulates the experience of being an outsider whose struggles are treated as "invalid"

and the multimedia and metafictional format of the story is great for this: the way important emotional points are relegared as bread crumbs that are shoved into a wholeass diffetent website, the story as embodied by the narrator doing all that shit above (even the whole thing w/ the footnote of "this is totally part of the story and not a recap where we infodump 2 bread bcuz i cant be assed to show her learning things naturally"), and a good amount of text being done as quick flashing in the videos or written in rpp's signature disorganized schizospeech where half the words arent even real

its a story about the alienation of being a mentally ill/trauma victim but an unsympathetic "problematic" one, and the framing of the story embodies that: its not a heros journey where the story invites you as a reader to "immerse" in the story and see urself in the characters shoes and learn to empathize with them, its one where "settings" are characters and on a meta level the story as the setting itself is also like a "character" who frames the people in it as these irrational things. even the marginals themselves who are universes with inhabitants-the characters are the worlds and the people inside of them are invisible and unable to grow w/o parasitizing on someone else

breads the protagonist whose own comic is mostly about whats happening to everyone else, biens the antagonist who has no reason to be, the herald of the apocalypse is stuck ina house in the middle of nowhere, anthony gets traumatized and we barely even see that because he immediately gets turned into a character that acts more like a robotic husk than a human being, the literal god of the story is somewhere (but who tf knows) and Most Beloved Local Princess Best Dressed In The Grocery Store Most Important Woobie Character is functionally a pet of the one who adores him the most.

even media, arguably the most developed character (and fittingly at that considering the concept of marginals being viruses and "narratives" that steal the spotlight from the story of the living universe) is sometimes subject to this treatment, where we "know" being a marginal is unpleasant but we see him mostly just... lusting over jacques, the desire to make his entire world one Very Familiar guy if it means not having to look at or think about anything or anyone else around him including the responsibility of being an alien president

bread wants to CHANGE HER NAME bien wants to COLLECT MERCH AND PLAY ON THE PIANO jacques wants to HAVE TEA PARTIES AND LARP BEING DEAD media wants to GET MARRIED AND LIVE IN DOMESTIC BLISS and shit even sar "lets do big cosmic goals together" is out there fucking roleplaying christmas in poland

the repeated thematic symbolism of characters experiencing the world "as it is" but those perceptions feeling foreign and insignificant, of things being seen out of "the corner of ur eye" instead of facing them headon, where a marginal is a manifestation of unpleasant memories they try to repress, replace and gaslight themselves into being About Other Things, etc. etc., where every character is simultaneously Just Some Guy but also THE GUY

breadavota is weak if you try to view it as a typical narrative of how characters go from a to b but man is it good as a overall experience of being a Schizoism Simulator. its a story where every character cant face the feelings and experiences they have in the past so they turn those feelings into objects and punt them into space.

fittingly in a story about marginal notes, escapism and the eyes of reality itself unable to watch the world around it head-on the "bonus stories" propel the narrative in a way the "main plot!" doesn't quite

impending apocalypse? nay. jacques goes to the grocery store for the first time

#the most schizoid schizotypal to ever #breadavota #long post

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illyrian-dreamer · 9 months

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well obviously the ppl who said she shouldnt sleep with tamlin didnt take it to heart but girly i felt attacked and angry like cassian and azriel just prevented me from avenging my sister. i mean that is the point of using y/n and "you" but i still feel like ppl view her as another character CAUSE CLEARLY THEY AINT HURT ENOUGH! she should 100% sleep with tammy fuck cassian and azriel, but obviously have them grovel for her and when she does agree to forgive them its not like they immediately go back to being together obvi but shes like i gotta trust you again and thats gonnna take a WHILE. idk what this rant was but ilyyyyy and your writing

Haha I really see both perspectives, even though I’m also team fuck tam tam! And thank you so much sweet thing 💕

So by the time the reader meets Tamlin, she’ll be a good couple of months into her ‘new life’.

As readers we know there is more to the story and can see Cazriel’s perspective, but it’s important for me to write the reader as only acting on her truth, and not the wider story, if that makes sense?

Her truths at this stage are:

she will never go back to the night court

her relationship with Cazriel is over

She’s not sitting around waiting for Cazriel or anyone in her family to show up and make a big scene - she left explicitly so she couldn’t be found so that wouldn’t happen.

So with that being front of mind, the reader wouldn’t be sleeping with Tamlin out of spite or to make Cazriel jealous, she really wants nothing to do with them. I see it more as Tamlin and the reader being able to relate to one another, and finding comfort in that ☺️

#cazriel series #cazriel angst #tamlin redemption #azriel x cassian x y/n #acotar angst

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shindidnothingwrong · 1 year

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Just wanna say its 2023 and I still want it to be said that if Boruto and Sarada end up together we can literally never say shit about SNS again because they were right, unfortunately we gotta admit that it was true, that the only reason Naruto and Sasuke didnt end up together was because their both dudes, Im not a SNS shipper but the truth is the truth at that point.

And before anyone says ‘nuh uh, Boruto and Kawaki are supposed to represent Naruto and Sasuke so that doesnt count’

You are partially right in that, Boruto and Kawaki are definitely heavily marketed and referenced Naruto and Sasuke in many ways.

However lets not overlook that Boruto and Sarada shared that connection first and still does in many ways, I’ll give several examples.

Note: there are MANY official arts featuring them with their fathers that look more like family photos rather than shipping material [kinda weird to have their dads constantly watching them being lovey dovey if that was the case, looks more like two brothers hangin with their kids that reminds them of themselves than two fathers watching their children be inlove]

The context Im pointing out here is how Sasuke and Sarada point out Naruto and Boruto dont understand what its like to be in their shoes, just Sarada was less aggressive but her point still stood that unlike her Boruto KNEW who he was and where he was delivering to and if she was in his shoes she’d gladly make the effort to bring her father the food, but unlike him she doesnt know her dad nor have any clue where he is or has been all this time. So the situations are different but the context is the same, them calling the other out for their ignorance.

Worst part is all this is STILL not even half of what all exists but you get the point, Boruto and Sarada may have alot in common with NS more than SNS atp [for obvious reasons as Kawaki was introduced] but the fact remains they were HEAVILY SNS coded and still are to an extent, it was very clear from Kishimotos original writing he intended for Naruto and Sasuke to pass the torch to the new generation with Sarada filling Narutos role and Boruto Sasuke’s, ending 14 literally has Sasuke and Naruto watching them from the Hokage mountain, at the end of the Boruto movie which Kishi wrote had Sasuke looking on proudly at the kids professing their newfound dreams.

You’d think this would’ve been obvious when Sarada decided to follow Narutos path and Boruto decided to follow Sasuke’s it was very apparent that the two were meant to succeed their fathers and continue on the close Uzumaki/Uchiha friendship [Kushina/Mikoto, Hashirama/Madara, Obito/Kushina, Naruto/Sasuke] it was NOT implied to be romantic, they were entirely marketed as the new Naruto and Sasuke, a blush or two doesnt = romance when Naruto and Sasuke have blushed for eachother as well, which leads me to the point of this post.

If BoruSara is canon theres really nothing else to say about SNS because they’d be right, even if that isnt the intent or message they are tryin to send the fact remains thats exactly what they’ll convey, that Naruto and Sasuke 100% would’ve been endgame if not for both being males, because the fact that they have been so heavily foreshadowed as taking over their fathers role, sharing a similar bond and many similar moments, theres no way to deny that the only reason these two are pushed together romantically is because their boy and girl, you could probably argue at that point that Naruto and Sasuke actually were as well if thats the case with Boruto and Sarada.

At the moment their relationship has been completely platonic, they are close friends, teammates, and rivals just like their fathers were, and nothing about their relationship is explicitly romantic just like it wasnt for their fathers as well.

However, if they DO turn Boruto and Sarada’s relationship into a romantic one and confirm all those scenes, interactions etc were indeed part of their romantic development, you cannot argue the same couldnt have been true for Naruto and Sasuke anymore, not even the fact that they see eachother as brothers is a factor anymore since Sarada said the same and still ends up with him, theres no argument anymore.

Listen everything I’ve mentioned is exactly why I dont think BoruSara will be endgame, but Im realistic enough to not say it isnt a possibility at all, so if the worse case scenario happens and they are indeed canon we gotta concede that SNS fans were right, the only thing that held SNS back was bein men, sad but true.

It still baffles me how some SS fans even ship BoruSara considering it literally mirrors the two main ships they were against, NaruSaku and SNS, and yet now their shipping the split image of those ships...truly makes you wonder...but thats another topic for another day.

Point is I dread the day this is actually confirmed because if Kishi and co thought the outrage was bad before its gonna be 10x worse if they pull that cuz it’ll prove everyones suspicions right that there was homophobia behind the scenes, alot of ppl claim to tolerate BoruSara since its the closest they’ll get to SNS but deep down if it was actually confirmed they’ll be outraged because lets be real, although some of them may settle for it in theory doesnt mean their actually ok with the ‘homophobia’ being confirmed, they may even come to resent the ship for ‘stealing’ what SNS had and should’ve been.

The NS shippers who see this as compensation for Kishis ‘betrayal’ will be fine in this case since theres no negative cannotations for them if their canon, it’ll just prove to them that NS should’ve been canon but Kishi ‘sold out’ but is now atoning for his sins and ‘fixing’ his mistakes.

Not even makin that up thats literally what they think BoruSara is, Kishi ‘fixing’ his mistakes despite him never once saying he regretted his endgame ships, only the fandom views it as a ‘mistake’ while Kishimoto proudly speaks on every ship with no remorse, he didnt even realize he had caused such controversy, man lied to his own wife just to appease her, thats not something you’d do if you felt you made the wrong decision, instead he would’ve apologized but nah, he just flat out said NS was never a serious consideration for him, he already had his endgame decided and he stuck to it.

So to say Kishimoto is ‘fixing’ his mistakes by making BoruSara canon would mean he’d have to regret his endgame pairings which he doesnt, hes made that abundantly clear in numerous interviews that he was proud of his decision and deliberately ignored everyone who pushed for NS even his own wife, so why ppl think Kishimoto is trying to ‘fix’ a mistake he doesnt even view as a mistake is baffling to me.

Anyway I’ve said my piece, I’ll come back to this subject if the worst case scenario happens but hopefully that doesnt happen and they stick to what they’ve set up, a platonic close bond between friends, teammates, family, and rivals.

#boruto #boruto anime #boruto next generations #anti borusara #anti-borusara #anti bsa #reason im not tagging anti sns because this isnt meant to be anti towards them but bsa #Im actually defending sns in this post not condemning it #basically im saying you cant condemn one but be fine with the other #if your against sns you should be against bsa #and if bsa is canon then it does confirm that sns could've just as well been canon and only werent cuz their guys

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opinated-user · 1 year

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I think the whole "all blacks are slaves in star wars" is some backwards way of her trying to be progressive. This is the same lady who was mad that when star vs was doing racism plot that they didnt use the hispanic family as the center piece. Shes just teying too hard to be progressive she loops into being dumb and bigoted on accident.

let's keep a list of the things that LO decided to shove into SW that didn't need to be there and/or are explicitly against canon: -gender based eugenics (a whole bloodline of cis lesbian women who go out to get knocked up by random men and just naturally only birth other cis lesbians. LO later tried to backpedall this by saying that many were adopted and births were rare, but that still doesn't account as to how all women are cis lesbians or how in those "rare births" coincidentally there was still only cis girls). -anti black humans based slavery (painting the empire as such when literally the only stormtrooper whose face we have seen was Finn)

-cultural genocide/colonization (alaina does this purely because one person displeased her, reinforcing the idea that alaina is just the rewriting of valithria, another genocidal tyrant that LO wrote. this did existed in canon, but it was represented as a bad thing whereas LO just loves to write her "good guys" doing this). -strict social roles (rey taking care of the household and the children while alaina gets out to work*) -a strict binary that applies to the whole universe (only women are allowed in the only organization with power in the universe and only the people who were afab, even if they aren't women, are allowed to stay. the idea that afab/amab/women/men could be concepts foreign to some section of the universe are never considered). -because of this and the first point, transphobia is wildly normalized (this organization that "only allows women, cis or trans" still retains people whose identity emphatically is not women, merely because of biology.) -gender essentialism ("women, by virtue of being women or being born women, always have this characteristics"). most of this are all meant to be good things or actively encouraged by the "good guys". * couldn't find the post about this so maybe i had it backwards, but i remember this was a thing.

#lily orchard

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homophyte · 11 months

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okay im going to be vulnerable and admit though ive owned house of leaves for a few months i was spurred to start reading it the other day after watching that video on myhouse.wad . no one make fun of me. that being said.

im not necessarily going though it super in depth and more just trying to unravel some stuff for funsies with some various help from old forums and what strikes me as sometimes glaringly missing from discussions on the book is the way it relates to women. like the fact that the house itself is treated as though it has a female identity will get talked about but theres not rlly discussions about the ramifications of that--how will and holloways posturing--named as explicitly about 'male dominance'--is essentially a fight over who gets to get the girl. wills early venture into the house is literally likened to karen kissing wax, like theyre BOTH infidelities, and thats not nearly the first time karen herself treats the situation like the house is her romantic rival or at least rival for wills attention (im not far enough in to have too solid a grasp on the implications of the name delial--but lets just say i have a suspicion?).

anyway whats maybe even more interesting than that is the way its kinda ALL about gender--its men who keep entering the house desperate to know what its about, its men driven to write about it and uncover its secret knowledge, and it drives them fucking crazy. like...you can read that--VERY EASILY--as men 'discovering' the ""hidden"" interiority of women, like, the very idea that women are complex people with their own ideas and emotions and inner worlds. the fact that the house has a secret inside is huge fucking news and just about every man in the novel reacts to it as such, but the reactions from women are like...not that. idk im not done with it by any means but the similarity between the conversations between karen & wax at the end ch VII and johnny & thumper at the end of VIII really apparent. when thumper is listening to johnny, seeking to understand him, being really invested and interested and not reacting with annoyance or disdain or boredom like he expects, it genuinely really knocks him out to the point he nearly cries--and then he bottles it up, writes it off, even when she echoes karens exact words flirting with wax he doesnt register it.

the text displays a consciousness around gendered expectations here, particularly bc thumper is a sex worker, that she cant be expected to intellectually engage w it, but she can and does...and then johnny doenst know what to DO about it, how to engage w a real moment of understanding between the sexes or whatever so he very consciously falls back on gender expectations for men and refuses to feel that connection, severing the tie he inadvertently built w her and consigning the moment to unknowable blackness. the void is invented by people determined to treat it as foreign--which often means treating it as hostile (holloways gun, johnnys suspicions when thumper didnt call him back).

that she ends with the comment 'you just need to get out of the house' is like...almost laughably on the nose especially w the way chauvanist culture has proliferated on the internet. like in the book too, dont get me wrong, its just so startlingly accurate to whats going on it seems like she really must UNDERSTAND in a way johnny fails to capture in his narration but still comes through due to her being kinda fucking great--sorry i REALLY like thumper in this actually she may be my favorite. its sort of difficult for me to look at the line and divorce it in my head from the phenomenon of the incel--read a certain way, you have johnny ranting and raving about how he just cant ever figure out what the collective 'woman' is thinking and all this time hes spent driving himself crazy about it, and thumper listening and understanding and very sympathetically and honestly saying 'that wouldnt be a big deal if you interacted w women instead of holing up inside trying to theorize about it.'

i dont necessarily think its a mistake that johnny is the kind of person he is, a partying womanizer or whatever, bc sex becomes his only interaction w women (his failure to talk abt the book w kyrie in favor or fucking her) just as entering the house becomes wills only interaction w it (or at least he rages when he cant have that interaction, he values it above others). the book is pretty clear about both of these acting as forms of penetration. as johnny gets more invested in the text he interacts more and more w the women zampano used as interpreters and comes more and more into contact w women and less and less able to deny their interiority.

the reaction from men that women are people is simple and plain disbelief, followed by disconnected, invasive, rigorous study, study that is likened to war, to surgery, to expedition--anything but understanding. its kind of baffling idk maybe im just not looking in the right place to see people talking about it but this sorta feels like...the point. hell even earlier in ch VII on page 91 you get will and holloway excitedly talking about calling the press about their huge discovery that no one will believe...and then just, karen, living her life, treated like an enigma. i literally have this written in my notes as "men discover women have internality; their wives decline to comment"

#myposts #thats not even to mention the uncanny similarities of the whalestoe letters to some stuff in the rest of the book #the intrusion of men the inability of men to understand women as a form of violence. etc #thats not to say i find it particularly groundbreaking a feminist analysis of gender relations or anything?#its more just like...hey where are the mediocre liberal feminists in talking about this this would totally be their thing #idk i very well might be just looking the wrong place #and again im not finished with it. so i could be dead fucking wrong #but at least rn its the main thing i keep seeing pop up over n over

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beebo-biris · 1 year

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ok been thinking A LOT abt that utena post and i think it mainly boils down to the fact that while I think they missed the point of utena and anthy's relationship with: (kinda spoilers, i keep some stuff vague sorry it'd be much longer if I didnt)

utenas arc is about her role as a prince/man and letting go of gender

by the end they ARE in love. the show is explicit as possible with having to abide by not having a kiss. there is: on offscreen kiss in the credits, mentions of homosexualiety and homophobia in universe. utena referencing the fact that she is just a friend in the beginning, the s1 finale w/ utenas realization, series finale (there is no straight explaination given the context), the movie is actually explicitly gay. very much so

"all girls are like the rose bride" this is about gender roles and all of the girls in the story. its vauge and its symbolism, it is very hard to put together. (this show is HARD to piece together) the dresses they all wear, the uniforms, all back this up. this is about societal roles, anthy is the figurehead

Utena's uniform is a mash of the two, thats why she has booty shorts i think

the men that abuse and control ARE framed as bad, and esp touga and sionji are framed as multifaceted. it definatly does feel like they don't really get what they deserve (more so touga) bc Utena rebukes him gently, but that is bc of her complex feelings of leting go of the system. if you wanna take it one step further I believe she is in control of the relationship and not being manipulated or snything in the movie bc hes not real hes dead lol

Anthy's agency being manipulation is adressed, by utena, and it's understood. the audience is meant to sympathize with her, and the blame falls on akio. I feel like her being a villan goes against what akio is supposed to stand for, being the true manipulator. Is she a good person? no. But she is a victim

I could write more, i may later BUT

the OP of that post was right about the racism stuff. it' bad. i don't know why they decided to make her brown but it didn't have the best intentions, and they didn't think enough about the implications of the plot. The only 2 (technically 4? or 5? some are reflections or illusions but act like different ppl) ((which is ALSO weird)) brown ppl are not well fleshed out with race in mind, and that part of OP's points shouldn't be shot down. Utena needs to be viewed with a critical eye and the show is NOT PERFECT. it is quite flawed. it sucks because i love it and what it means to me, and what it means to have a show so complex that adresses so many things, but I'd be a liar if I said the race stuff was handled well.

#tldr: utena takes a lot of critical thought to understand and I don't think any aspect should be left out when analyzing it #when we do that we discount it's biggest merits and biggest mistakes #i know this prob doesnt make much sense i sort of needed to just write it down #utena #rgu #revolutionary girl utena

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cfrog · 7 months

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OC-tober Day 1: Fav OC

[full prompt list]

I'm gonna have to award the title of "current favorite" to Rat. I'm sort of taking a break from drawing LEDDlabs, but I am still thinking about that guy so much. Have some rambles.

I cycle through which of the lab rats is my fav, I wouldn't say either of them is more favorite over the others. They take turns. And right now, it's Rat's turn. Which is good, cause it means he finally got some songs over on my neocities. Good for him!

[Woe, Rat be upon ye]

I've always loved writing about immortal beings, they're just such unique sorts of characters. The threat of death influences so much of a normal character's motivation, so when you remove that, you end up with some real freaks. I think Rat is the closest an immortal character has gotten to what I would do with eternal life: mind my business, enjoy some art, and take a lot of naps. Not that his life is entirely worry-free. Rat also has one of my favorite moral dilemmas to write, the idea of a "good" demon. The implications of existing as a being explicitly intended for evil deeds, and choosing to act differently. The consequences of that choice, objectively "correct" from our perspective, but. Is it really a good thing? Does it matter in the end? Who knows :3c

Writing Rat also comes with one of my other favorite activities, worldbuilding. Specifically what demons are and how they work. I don't have, like. LOTR level of lore. It's pretty minimal right now, I've got just enough figured out to tell Rat's story. But since the main source of demon knowledge in-comic is gonna be from Rat, and he's the most unreliable and unhelpful source of information ever, I can lie and leave out whatever I need to. Even Astaroth is probably only going to be around for a handful of pages, being locked to a single room. She isn't exactly helpful or clear either.

Rat's uncooperative personality also helps me with writing about his "past lives" (i collect info for these on TH if you didnt know). Like, Rat is never going to share any of his old names. Because that's deadnaming? Because he genuinely forgot? Maybe. But it's mostly because I don't feel like coming up with 20 more names. I have two old Rat names, and that's more than enough. I don't want to refer to Rats of the past by other names because I feel like it'd distance them too much. I call them "past lives" but I don't want to give the wrong impression, they're all Rat. it's always been the same guy, continually living for hundreds of years. If LEDDlabs had an actual fandom I fully believe someone would onceler-style selfship some Rats. Like a true tumblr sexyman.

We'll see how much I write for the rest of these. I feel like this was a lot.

#i got a single yes on that last post 👍 oc time #oc-tober #bweirdoctober #my ocs #my oc talk #ledd's lab rats #lab rat #i was just writing stuff out for the chapter where rat brings up the demon thing. the other two dont start the story knowing that.#its a very fun interaction cause ollie has no idea what a demon is while moe is vaguely religious and having a crisis.#ollie: ok. this means nothing to me #moe: hell is real?????

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cocolacola · 1 year

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I say Seras's stuff is underdeveloped in Hellsing Ultimate because Hirano had been distraught over gonzo's portrayal of her and hadn't gone into as much depth in his own work because he development "had already been done" with gonzo.

It's why I prefer gonzo seras..? (I actually prefer Seras over Alucard in gonzo) because there is more time and drawn out investment to her development. Expressing her coming to terms with her role as a vampire beyond the bloodlust and sexualized portrayal ultimate does.

Now I love Seras, don't get me wrong. But there is a degree of truth to saying she lacks the same canonical love/respect that characters like Alucard has. It feels rushed, thrown togeather and driven by fan appeal rather than character growth.

(I hope I phrased that right, I'm writing this out while half asleep. words are hard...)

I'd say you absolutely phrased this correctly, in my opinion. there's nothing wrong with preferring what was done with her character in gonzo, i prefer elements of her from that series over the ultimate canon to some degree.

(putting a cut here because my response gets pretty long)

something that gonzo 100% does correctly is steer more away from the weird sexualization stuff. this may be shallow of me, but I think that could be one of the reasons Hirano wasn't happy with what they did with her. i think the way that Ultimate (specifically the earlier episodes) handled her was incredibly disrespectful. there's so many unnecessary things that just... didn't need to be there. i will make another post about that someday. i definitely think she can become overshadowed by alucard because of these things, which is why i think these conversations are especially important.

I do, however, think there is a difference between underdeveloped and underexplored. Seras' arc has a clear-cut purpose in the manga and Ultimate canon, but the nuances of it are much more subtle and not explicitly shown. she's more dependent on the other characters to explain and cultivate her situation (such as alucard defending her when walter asks why she was turned, and pip and integra offering their blood at different points in the series)

The reason I usually take issue with people saying Seras doesn't have enough development is because they usually are die-hard fans of other characters with the same amount of issues as her. she goes through an arc just like everyone else. to say there's no substance there is sort of just showing the way people stopped paying attention as soon as Alucard got on the boat and the show started focusing on other characters.

Im not here to say Hirano wrote her perfectly because he didnt. I have a lot of problems with how Hellsing is written. but to say that out of all of the characters that Seras is the one with no development?? it seems like a stretch to me.

when it comes to other people in this fandom, i dont think it's fair to use the "she didn't do anything" argument to simply toss her out of any discussion about the show. that's mostly what im against, so this is actually a breath of fresh air to me. there's so many interesting things to talk about in comparing her development in gonzo vs ultimate.

your point was 100% made and this was great to think about. and as always, thanks for the ask!!!!

#dont worry im really sleepy rn too but i catch your drift #an unrelated rant in the tags #because when i say these things i want something to be absolutely clear #i mean absolutely no ill intent or targeting of anyone when i make my hellsing posts #my criticisms of hellsing fandom are broad strokes and if people fall into that it's not the end-all-be-all of how you interpret the show #i just want an open dialogue about what the show means that doesnt revolve around surface level stuff #love you all #hellsing

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anakinskywalkerog · 9 months

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omg no way tumblr never bothered to tell me you replied. plus why is nothing showing up in my following feed??? a bone to pick for next time ig

ahaha i missed this too you're so good with advice! ❤ and thank you hehe i have been informed the new pfp it a character calld lust from an anime called fullmetal alchemist, but i just like the aesthetic

it really is and thank youuuuu! im sure it will! *sends ✨good luck✨*

hmm i dont wanna obsess over han at all, because first of all, ELI! that would be unfair. and han is sort of crazy, anyways. i am listening to i can see you from speak now tv but i shouldnt because it reminds me of han. it also reminds me of anakin. very anakincore track. i cant help it though, i can see you is so good, although it gives more of a reputation vibe than speak now tbh. still love it anyways and thank mother taylor for it. are you enjoying speak now tv? what's your favourite track? i think im enjoying mine, mean and back to december, but everything is ofc v nice! wish we had a mine pop mix tv and some more beat to enchanted, but its perfect as it is!

yess "there will be plenty more guys 😂 trust me." that's exactly what i thought, too! like, he's here now, but someday there's going to be someone else EXACTLY like that. although it might not be so bad if i did make a decision influenced by him because he and i have a similar objective - physics/engineering degree at oxford/cambridge so its a win-win no matter which way i go ig. plus we're academic rivals. competition is the norm for us. but about intrigue with han...

"oh? whos your friend? (i asked han to pose for one of my snaps hehe) is this friend good-looking?"

... dude? like, WHAT? that sounds like pretty blatant flirting to me.

but lets not forget that once we were in the corridor and bro leaned in super close (keep in mind this was months ago and this was in the middle of like 15 other people anyways) and i leaned away out of reflex 😂 i think he looked at me later with a very patronizingly disappointed

kinda expression. i think that was a test, and i failed miserably but thats fine 💀

eli really is we even have loads of similar interests!

yw and sameee! it is hehe she even send me memes and is a pedro pascal stan (as she should. pedro pascal is an icon. love him) ! very happy with that

oh no, is everything okay? can i do anything to help? if it helps, my life is only peaceful because i am in isolation from all friends, hehe i need time to regenerate. i am an ambivert at heart. my extrovert meter needs to recharge lmaooo

also, a part of me wonders if cranberry is mad at me? basically, he aksed me to write a steamy story abt him and han (thyre best friends) and didnt want his gf to find out incase she thought he was weird (bro she already does. shes ur gf. she knows what weird she signed up for smh)

anyways i made a small oopsie. i asked some people to critique it for me, and one of those poeple may have been the girl from my diary, whos friends with cranberry's gf, and who previously told machete i liked him when i wanted it to be a scret and explicitly told her so, and the one who i knew cannot be trusted with secrets because she will tell someone and lie about it 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

anyways cranberry was annoyed (and understandably so.) he said his gf was mad at him (impossible - if she was, shed be mad at ME first cos thats how women are. better than revenge is living proof. but she isnt! ) and i get it, but then people stop being mad, right? i mean, ive been really mad at him too, for a variety of reasons. i forgave him though and he didnt even apologize like i did! but he seemed normal at prom perhaps a bit icy? a guy friend told me im overthinkinngit and while he may have been annoyed it doesnt mean hd stop being friends with me or anything, and that he definitely wouldnt stay mad because its not a big deal.

but i texted him cranberry with a pretty obvious joke and he didnt even find it funny??? like thats HIS sort of joke??? how does he ot find that funny??? my friend says he must be mad then, but says theres the chance he just didnt find it funny?

like, i get it, but i want to make amends! and i wont even see cranberry in person so i can never tell. but if he was mad, he wouldve blocked me, or left me on delivered, or just opened. but he even sees my stories n stuff!

plus his friends would be mad if something happened. like guys are super gangy like that. but his friends are not mad at all, like han and this other guy are totally normal and no one sad that. even when han brought it up the day after the whole thing, he didnt imply it was serious and just dropped it after joking around abt it.

my friend did say if i was friends with cranberrys friends, it doesnt mean they have to be mad, but what if cranberry and his gf broke up over something as stupid as a joke???? and it was my fault??? i would feel awful and i cant even tell or say sorry.

nor can i ask han over text cos then hed tell cranberry and itd be weird. and i cant ask eli cos i dont want to set a bad rep.

he texted about it and i delved into a tiny argument he said its fine but "just think more next time". i think he and han both know i didnt mean for this to happen and that it was a genuine accident, but people gte hurt over things even if they know it wasnt meant to hurt them. shoulve said no is proof of this.

but they did send me a video of them reading the story together [cranberry and his friends, it was han who filmed (i did ask them to film their reaction)] and cranberry was cracking up as he read it! if he was mad he wouldve abandoned it. but they sill seemed to love it. surely if cranberry was mad at me, then that wouldnt have happened?

jesus christ, thats LONG. i apologize for troubling you, i didnt think itd get this long! its just been on my mind :( ironically it happened yesterday just after i was so happy. ugh. boys are awful

yes haha thank youuu :) if you're okay with my constant somewhat accidental drama dumps, i definitely will :D

love you and stay safe x

hi sythe so sorry it took me so long to respond to this!

I hope all is well with Eli. but GIRL have I been listening to “I Can See You” sooooo much it’s literally the delulu girl anthem! I love it. having a little crush on Han just adds some spice!! there’s nothing wrong with a little seasoning to an otherwise boring existence 😂

I am okay 🩵 just really been struggling with my OCD lately. I hope it gets better soon.

no fuckinf WAY cranberry asked you to write a steamy story!!? girl that is NOT platonic. what are these men doing out here 😂😂😂😂 but I agree, very unlikely that he is mad at you

I love the drama dumps, I wish we could vent together for real because I have been ALL over the place with my drama lately 😅 but it’s fine, it adds the comedy. i’m watching my own life like a work of absurdism. I would absolutely recommend that strategy.

#answered asks

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