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antianakin · 21 days

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I never, ever say the Jedi were flawed, and here's why.

It's not because I don't think people can BE flawed, or that I don't think GOOD people can be flawed, of course they can. Even people who are genuinely doing good things and making good choices and trying their best to be selfless and kind and compassionate can make mistakes and have a bad day.

But there's really only two reasons I see anybody bring up "the Jedi were flawed."

The first is from Jedi fans who are trying to stave off the Stanakins and the anti Jedi crowd by adding that in as a disclaimer. "OF COURSE the Jedi are flawed, but it doesn't mean they aren't good people!" It's a meaningless statement because the side saying it doesn't even really believe it to be true and the side they're saying it TO thinks the Jedi being flawed means they all deserved to die. This is the kind of statement that leads to people deciding that individual Jedi are okay but their culture needs to be completely reformed in order to allow people like Anakin to just do whatever they want whenever they want and then they can all live.

The second is from people who DON'T really like the Jedi much and will insist that "the Jedi are flawed" is part of the whole point of the narrative of Star Wars, especially the prequels. This is the kind of statement that leads to people like Leslye Headland INSISTING that George Lucas intended for the story of the Jedi to be one of failure and criticism and casting the Jedi as "the evil institution" in her interpretation of Star Wars. This is what leads to stories like the Ahsoka show insisting that the Jedi were elitist bastards whose arrogance led to their own genocide. These people usually try to claim they like the Jedi, but they'll still cast the Jedi as the bad guys in the story instead of, say, Anakin. These are the people who genuinely have no idea what attachment is and don't care to learn. These people believe that, at best, the Jedi THOUGHT they were doing good, but that they had completely lost their way and were truly not that much better than the Sith anymore and their destruction was necessary to create balance in the galaxy.

I have no desire to appease people who don't like my interpretation of Star Wars, and I don't think that "the Jedi were flawed" was ever the point of Lucas's story and I genuinely think it takes a lot AWAY from his story to say that it does. So while I am perfectly happy to admit that people in general, even overall GOOD and kind and selfless people, are always flawed and can make mistakes, I will never, ever say that the Jedi were flawed. The Jedi lost, yes, but not due to their own flaws. They lost because of EVERYONE ELSE'S flaws, so what does it MATTER if the Jedi were flawed or not? If you truly believe the Jedi were good people who did everything right and simply lost due to other people's selfish choices, then what does it add to the story to insist the Jedi were flawed? How does it change anything, for the better or otherwise? The Jedi were right IS the point of the story, so insisting they were flawed actually takes away from that by distracting from how the Jedi were RIGHT, and it's people choosing not to listen to them or trust them or act like them that brings about the downfall of an entire galaxy.

The Jedi weren't flawed. The Jedi were RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING and that is the hill I will die on.

#star wars #jedi #pro jedi #prequels jedi

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kanansdume · 28 days

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I have SO MANY feelings about Kanan, Zeb, and Rex all being some of the last few survivors of dying cultures.

Even though the Jedi can pass on their teachings and there will always be more Force sensitive people in the galaxy, the specific culture of the Prequels Jedi that Kanan grew up with will never completely come back. Jedi like Ezra and Luke will share a lot of similarities, obviously, especially philosophically, but their way of life and traditions will look VERY different, as will whatever ends up evolving from them (and from Rey if we include the Sequels).

Similarly, Zeb finds the Lasat on Lira San, but those Lasat will presumably have a VERY different culture than the one that existed on Lasan. The two groups of Lasat have been separated for so long that Lira San has become legend and is thought to not really exist and even the people who believe it exists don't realize what it actually is and that there are other Lasat on there. This implies that it's been an EXTREMELY long time since the Lasat of Lasan originally left Lira San and the two groups have probably diverged quite a bit. Lira San itself is also just not going to feel like Lasan, it won't have the same landscapes or wildlife, the cities will be different. The language might even have some significant differences that the last three Lasan survivors would have to navigate. And there's no getting back that culture from Lasan, it's gone. There's only three known survivors and they're going to end up just... engulfed into the Lira San culture without a lot of ability to pass on what they remember from Lasan. Lasan might end up like... a chapter in a Lira San history text and that's probably it. The nuances of its culture will be lost completely.

And the clones. The clones are just going to completely disappear. People will likely only remember the clones even existed because the war got named after them. All they'll be remembered FOR is violence and death. Depending on who is talking about them, they'll either be the traitors who destroyed the Jedi and allowed the Empire to reign, or the poor pawns that the Empire used to destroy the Jedi and keep the galaxy under its thumb. Who they were will be completely and utterly lost. And there's no way for them to continue in any form. While it's POSSIBLE that a few of them might have sired children out in the galaxy somewhere, we never have any confirmation of that, and nearly all of them are dead by the time the Empire falls. Their friendship with the Jedi, what little culture they were able to develop, all of that is lost to time and will disappear once the final clone dies.

It's such a horrific thing that is happening to these three characters, a slow dying out that that's literally happening in front of their very eyes. It's the worst kind of connection between the three of them, but something that's probably really important in their various relationships. No one else understands this grief the way they do, no one else quite understands how this feels, the helplessness and hopelessness. There's absolutely nothing they can do but try to keep going and remember their people as best they can and live according to the culture the Empire has tried to eradicate.

I like to think the three of them end up discussing it one day, maybe one Empire Day they all just decide to go drinking and be maudlin together. And Kanan ends up talking about how the Jedi believed that there was no death, there was the Force. Everyone who dies rejoins the Force, so even if they're gone they're still impacting the galaxy and the people living in it, regardless of whether those who remain can feel them or not. Maybe you get a burst of inspiration or have a lucky break or meet someone you instantly click with, and maybe that's the people who've left before you still touching your life through the Force, binding you together no matter what. Zeb and Rex really connect to this belief and end up finding comfort and even a little healing in it.

#star wars #kanan jarrus #caleb dume #captain rex #garazeb orrelios #jedi #clones #clone troopers #lasat #lasan #lira san #prequels jedi #pro jedi #tw genocide

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phoenixyfriend · 1 year

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There's this notable difference, both in fic and in textual analysis and fandom reaction, between:

The Jedi Needed to Change, because their philosophy on certain topics was faulty, and their supposed crumbling moral core and refusal to adjust their approaches to topics like attachment and political impartiality, in the decades leading up to the Prequels were responsible for a degree of their own loss of power and weakness in the face of evil. It was a need in the sense of an obligation, because their moral high ground was a lie they weren't living up to, but should.

and

The Jedi Needed to Change, not because they were wrong, but because there was no other way to survive. The need was not 'you must, because I say so' but 'we must, because we will die otherwise.' It was a need in the sense of escaping a fire barefoot over glass, or drinking the most disgusting juice when dehydrated to the point of near-death; it's not the right choice in a vacuum, but there is no other option.

Change as an act of desperation, not change as an acknowledgement of moral failure.

I do not think the Jedi needed to change because of a moral failing. I do think that in fics where they change and grieve that change, because it was necessary to survive at all, hit much harder than fics where they change because their approaches to culturally subjective topics don't match that of the author.

(Was originally going to send this to @gffa as a prompt for a wider discussion but Eh, makes more sense as an original post on my own blog, lol.)

#pro jedi #jedi #star wars #prequels #prequels jedi #the clone wars #phoenix talks

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spiderbae2319 · 5 months

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We don’t talk about Leia killing Jabba enough. Her grandmother and father were born into slavery. Her blood was that of the desert sand and the shackles of bondage. Leia was never more a Skywalker than the day she strangled her slave master with the very chains he used to bind her. The daughter of Anakin Skywalker was the one who killed Tatooine’s most notorious slaver, and I find that really beautiful.

#tatooine #tatooine slave culture #Leyyah Skywalker #leia organa #princess leia #leia skywalker #anakin skywalker #star wars #star wars prequels #star wars original trilogy #shmi skywalker #jabba the hutt #return of the jedi

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allskywalkerswhine · 7 months

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in fics where luke gets plopped into the prequels i want every jedi within ten metres of him to think hes the weirdest jedi theyve ever seen. he has negative lightsaber form. he doesnt know what a kata is. he handstands when he meditates. his solution to sith is to try and have a chat. hes a political radical who keeps suggesting revolution. you ask him what the jedi code is and he says "kindness and compassion and helping those in need :) ". you ask how he used the force like that and he says some shit about how you are a luminous being limited only by your mind. the councils authority is just a suggestion. he is somehow the new favourite of both qui gon and yoda

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amarcia · 3 months

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Anger issues.

✨🌙 ART LOG -> @404ama

Okokok, this is based on a dialogue from a fanfic I read a year or so ago but I cannot find the fanfic or the author anymore. (edit: we found the fic!!) I just remember this scene which i really liked and wanted to draw it :(

#star wars #star wars art #gffa #anakin skywalker #obi wan kenobi #sw fanart #sw prequels #jedi order #jedi #anakin #kenobi #sw comic #star wars fanart #art

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taijahfern · 3 months

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Snips

#ahsoka #ahsoka tano #snips #jedi #star wars #the clone wars #star wars prequels #star wars fanart #art #artwork #artists on tumblr #digital art

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brrmian · 9 days

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they make me feel seen

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jedi-enthusiast · 3 months

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So you guys know how the Jedi Order is filled with people from pretty much every world and species? Think about all the unique cultural things the Jedi would practice simply because the Order is basically a giant melting pot.

A Kalikori made out of Akul teeth, passed down through a lineage and carved in multiple different styles to represent the cultures of each of the lineage members.

Different Jedi taking inspiration for their cultural face tattoos from their Togruta master's lekku or their friends' facial tattoos or the designs on a Council member's cultural headdress.

Recipes that are fusion foods made of like five different cultural dishes because a group of friends all got drunk together, got the munchies, and fucked around in the kitchen until something tasted good.

Like, just everyone sharing their cultures with each other and then people adapting their cultures based on their lineages and the shared culture in the Order, shared culture being a form of expressing love and adopting someone into the Order/a lineage.

Obviously there would be things that are off limits and permission would have to be given and the Jedi would probably emphasize learning the culture before ever adapting it, but I just think that after thousands of years their would be a lot of shared culture among the Jedi.

Oh, and languages! With how many languages are probably spoken in the Order, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jedi basically spoke bastardized versions of every language mashed together---it'd probably be an always moving/changing/evolving thing that no one but the Jedi can understand because the Jedi use the Force to bridge any gaps there might be in someone's understanding.

A lot of words and phrases would be taken from Dai Bendu, just because it's my personal headcanon that the Jedi still speak it, but then it would branch out from there into Twi'leki and Togruti and Durese and everything else all mixed together.

I just...I love the idea of the Jedi having a mixed culture that reflects the diversity of the Order.

#star wars #sw prequels #pro jedi #pro jedi order #jedi appreciation #jedi culture #jedi culture appreciation

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corukant · 2 months

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ik obi wan’s wringing out a towel somewhere like a stress ball

sum sketches bc i need to see him pissed off at all angles 👊👊👊👊

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antianakin · 1 month

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I'm starting to see some very funny (and by funny I mean infuriating) takes on what Andor was actually ABOUT and the way it utilized its more adult narrative within the context of Star Wars. Andor as a show followed Lucas's themes BRILLIANTLY even while choosing to look at them a little differently.

One of the primary themes in Star Wars is that there really isn't much of a "middle ground" in life. You are either choosing to be selfless and compassionate, or you aren't. Trying to stay in the middle or run from making this choice inevitably ends up badly for the people who try. And one of the other primary themes of Star Wars is that being selfless and compassionate often requires LETTING GO, most often letting go of the people you love and accepting that change happens in life.

I've seen people argue that Andor is able to be a morally grey story because its characters aren't Jedi or Sith who tend to be more bound by these cosmic themes or good vs evil, but I'd argue that Andor actually represents that theme JUST FINE.

Despite many of its characters living in a "morally ambiguous" area, we still have to see them make the choice to be selfless and compassionate or selfish and greedy. One of the primary themes for the characters is how well they can LET GO or not. Cassian is constantly having to figure out how to let go of his plans for his future, let go of his mother, let go of his dreams of a normal life. Cassian is ruled by fear for much of the first season and it's only once he is pushed into a situation where there's no longer any way to run, he starts finally fighting back and refusing to bow to the oppressive force that wants nothing more than to see him discarded like so much refuse. The people of Ferrix have to let go of their desire to stick their heads in the sand and simply hope the Empire won't notice them.

And on the other end of the spectrum you have Syril Karn and Dedra Meero absolutely fixated on their respective goals to the point that they're willing to kill and betray innocent people to reach them. They've convinced themselves their goals are selfless, but their motivations are in fact actually SELFISH, they serve nobody but their own ambitions. And both of them end up paying for it.

So Andor ABSOLUTELY gets the central theme of Star Wars, it isn't actually trying to change that. What it DOES do is take that theme and just digs slightly deeper, looking at this theme from a slightly different angel even when it ultimately comes to the same conclusion. Andor asks if selflessness and compassion always looks like "I'm Luke Skywalker, I'm here to rescue you!" Or if maybe sometimes making the selfless choice means burning yourself to light a fire to lead someone else to safety. Are all people who make the selfless and compassionate choice considered heroes, or are some of them having to make those choices down in the dirt and destined to be forgotten by history? Andor asks how many variations of selflessness might exist and then explores them in its wide, colorful ensemble.

Andor also is looking at what selflessness might look like in characters who are forced into making a choice between standing back when they see evil happening and dirtying their hands just to make the smallest difference because forces of evil outside of their control are making the purer options impossible.

And that is the EXACT SAME THEME explored with the Prequels Jedi. The Jedi who want so badly to be selfless and compassionate, whose philosophies and ideologies lead them to use violence only as a last resort and love everyone and everything in the galaxy equally. The Jedi who are thrust into a war where there's no way to win because the Sith are running both sides of it and the Jedi can't just NOT FIGHT because that will get innocent people killed and will help no one but themselves, but they have to compromise their morals as a result. The Jedi who see a politician slowly amassing unreasonable amounts of power he's unwilling to let go of and a Senate too controlled by fear and greed to see the danger, so their only option is to commit treason to try to remove the corruption personally.

The Jedi LOOK the hero part a lot more than the characters in Andor do. They're strong, confident, powerful, and wield swords of light. They fight out in the open rather than from the shadows. Cassian, Luthen, Saw, Mon Mothma, Vel, and Cinta all manipulate things and threaten people and lie and cheat their way towards victory. Both Mon Mothma and Luthen fully admit to choosing to act like their enemy in order to defeat them. And it's not that the Jedi's way of fighting is any worse than the way the people of Andor have learned to fight. The people of Andor would LOVE to be able to fight like the Jedi used to do. But they can't. Palpatine has created a world in which being heroes that way is NO LONGER POSSIBLE. He started with the Jedi, by forcing the Jedi into a situation where fighting the way they once did was the wrong choice to make. There were no longer any right choices, just better choices. The only choice.

The Jedi stood as a bulwark between the darkness and the people of the galaxy. For years they chose to dirty their hands in order to fight the battles no one else WANTED to fight because it was the ONLY CHOICE TO MAKE. So what happens when the Jedi are gone?

The rest of the galaxy is now faced with the same choice. Do you stand by and let darkness grow? Or do you dirty your hands a little because it's the only choice you CAN make?

The people in Andor are picking up the torch that fell out of the Jedi's hands when they were murdered and persecuted by the Sith. Only the people who are left don't have magic powers or swords of light, so they use the resources they have at their disposal, which mostly amounts to manipulation and trickery and striking from shadows. The fight looks a little different now, but it's still the same fight the Jedi were fighting for years.

So Andor is taking those bigger cosmic themes from the Jedi/Sith conflicts that permeate the rest of the Skywalker saga and asks what those themes might look like when applied to the little people. What kind of choices might THEY make, what kind of things might they have to let go of in order to make those selfless choices? What kind of consequences might happen when they DON'T make the selfless choice? It's the exact same theme Lucas has ALWAYS had in his stories, just viewed from a different angle or through a different lens.

But the stories we've been getting recently that are trying to argue that being selfish is actually totally fine so long as you're doing it For Love, that the Jedi were in fact the source of everything that went wrong in the galaxy, that the Jedi were DESTINED to be destroyed, those all go completely against Lucas's themes. They're the direct OPPOSITE of his intended message. It is in fact entirely possible to write a more adult story with grittier content that STILL SENDS THE SAME FUCKING MESSAGE AND FOLLOWS THE SAME THEMES and doesn't try to get edgy in its interpretation of the source material.

#star wars #star wars andor #andor #sw andor #cassian andor #luthen rael #mon mothma #jedi #pro jedi #george lucas #star wars prequels #prequels jedi

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ana-cantskywalker · 1 month

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Having BIG™ feelings about how most of the Jedi that survived Order 66 were literal children.

Children whose brothers turned on them, and whose parental figures were ripped from them for reasons that they would never understand. Children who didn't know how to live in a galaxy who accepted them, much less one that didn't. Children who had to shed the identity they'd had longer than they could remember just to survive. Children who watched as their people were labeled terrorists and the things they held sacred were desecrated to the purpose of hurting the people they were made to protect.

Children who had to pick up the (often literal) sword of those who'd come before them to protect innocents and hold onto what scraps of their culture that were left. That, to their limited knowledge, believed themselves to be the very last of their kind. Children who bore the weight of bringing justice to the deaths of thousands of their kin, not through revenge, but through the restoration of peace. Who in the fight towards peace, had to once again become weapons instead of peacemakers.

Of them training padawans when they were technically still padawans themselves. Who had to teach what broken pieces of their culture that they could still remember, because they were still learners when they stopped learning. Who taught in the middle of surviving in a galaxy that was out to get them on all sides. Whose padawans never got the chance to go to Ilum, or see the Temple on Coruscant, or bond with other padawans, or any other experience that should've been theirs by birthright.

If I think about it for too long my brain stops working and I cry.

#they just make me so sad #they deserved so much more #star wars #star wars prequels #star wars the clone wars #star wars rebels #Cal Kestis #Ahsoka Tano #Kanan Jarrus #Caleb Dume #rebellion era Jedi

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bbygirl-obi · 8 months

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"the jedi don't have therapists-"

jedi philosophy, and in particular the practices and teachings that jedi were expected to implement in their everyday lives, was therapy. dialectical behavior therapy (dbt), to be exact. anyone who's familiar with dbt knows where i'm already going with this, but like genuinely look up the basic tenets of dbt and it's identical with what the jedi were doing.

dbt, to put it simply, is a specific therapy technique that was designed for ptsd and past trauma. it's pretty different from traditional talk therapy. it combines a few different environments (individual, group, etc.), recognizing that no single format of treatment can stand alone.

the key focuses of dbt include:

emotional regulation- understanding, being more aware of, and having more control over your emotions

mindfulness- regulating attention and avoiding anxious fixation on the past or future

interpersonal effectiveness- navigating interpersonal situations

distress tolerance- tolerating distress and crises without spiraling and catastrophizing

i'm sure it's already clear from that list alone how much the jedi teachings correspond with the goals of dbt. the jedi value, teach, and practice the following:

identifying and understanding emotions

mindfulness and living in the present

compassion, diplomacy, and conflict resolution (on interpersonal scales, not just planetary or galactic)

accepting and tolerating certain levels of distress or discomfort (particularly mental, such as discomfort at the thought of losing a loved one to death)

idk man seems almost as if jedi mental health practices and dbt are two sides of a completely identical coin. (fun fact: both star wars and dbt are products of the 70s.)

and guess what? dbt was specifically designed as a treatment for borderline personality disorder. remember that one? or, if you don't, maybe you remember a specific character, the one who was literally used as an example by my professor in my undergrad psych class when she was teaching us about bpd?

tldr: simply existing within the jedi community, practicing jedi teachings, surrounded by a support network of other jedi of all life stages, was the therapy for anakin. even when viewed through a modern lens. it was even, more specifically, the precise type of therapy that has developed in modern times to treat the exact types of mental issues he was struggling with.

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nateofgreat · 6 months

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A reminder that Bail Organa, upon seeing the Jedi Temple in flames, immediately flew straight over to investigate himself with no guards and no weapons of his own. And upon being told there was a rebellion by the clone troopers there, he attempted to walk past them and see what was happening himself.

It was only after they aimed blasters at him that Bail leaves with a newfound resolve to stop Palpatine. He didn't wait until Palpatine declared himself Emperor to know he had to do something. He knew he was bad right there.

#Bail Organa #Bail Organa appreciation #Star Wars #Star Wars prequels #Pro Jedi #Jedi Order #pro Jedi Order #pro Bail Organa #Order 66

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amarcia · 11 months

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