#there’s so many different interpretations of a character with conflicting lore and so many writers across the decades

[apollo18]

Concept: the justice league finds out that Blaze and Satanus, the rulers of hell, are kids of their ‘even more of a boy scout than Superman’ coworker’s “boss” and think Shazam is the Christian God. They ask Billy really vague questions that lead Billy into confusing them even more and they become convinced that Marvel’s Wizard guy is God with a capital G and Marvel’s either an angel or the second coming of Jesus.

Meanwhile Shazam doesn’t even know what the Bible is and his knowledge about religion is so outdated he still thinks Solomon’s Judaism is new age and not worth his time to research such a ‘fad’ religion, but he knows humans will make a religion out of anything as well as bastardize existing ones and very well could have mixed up actual tales that involve him, his allies, and his children into some sort of melting pot of a religion.

So when someone finally asks Marvel outright if his “boss” is God, Billy goes ‘wait… old guy in white robes and sandals, with long white hair and a beard… lives in space… aka the “heavens”, whose a ghost(Holy Spirit), and knows everything(historama)??? I need to dig deeper into this hold on guys’ and goes off to ask the wizard.

So when Billy asks the Wizard he just tells Billy “well, my boy, if so many things match up, maybe it is so and the tales of myself and my champions grew so estranged from their origins or mixed in with other beliefs that it can explain the things that aren’t true to our reality.”

Then The Canonical Character To The DC Universe, Jesus of Nazareth, shows up.

#billy batson #shazam #dc captain marvel #dc comics #I really like religious history and folklore and that’s sort of what really got me into Shazam #Fawcett and DC’s interpretations are all so weird and conflicting just like actual religious history lol #I think comic books really capture the essence of the ancient myth very well #there’s so many different interpretations of a character with conflicting lore and so many writers across the decades #Batman: for the LAST FUCKING TIME our coworker is NOT Jesus #Guy Gardener: The man fights demons called The Seven Deadly Sins and follows orders from some guy he says lives in space also isn’t in spac #Guy: what the fuck else are we supposed to think?

[fixing-bad-posts]

I haven't watched rop myself but I would absolutely like to hear your thoughts. Like, this is your cue to vent (if you wanna) :)

okay so i just got three asks about rings of power when i didn’t expect anyone to actually message me about this at all!!! as such, i’ll be giving my opinion in three parts with this being, part one: rings of power as a bad adaptation.

basically, the failure of rings of power is two-pronged: 1) it’s a bad adaptation, and 2) it’s a poor piece of writing. charitably, it’s a solid first-try for a pair of newbie showrunners who have never written a big project before. and following that, a bad adaptation is actually easier to forgive than a poorly written story—with a text so beloved, and without the proper rights to all the material (they only had access to the appendices of lotr), it was always going to be impossible to make a perfect text-to-screen translation. that said, it’s (imo) a pretty bad adaptation (although still not as bad as the artemis fowl movie lmao) for a few reasons: thematic interpretation, use of characters/characterization, justification of setting, and fidelity to canon lore.

on: themes—a good adaptation requires both an understanding and an appreciation of the source material, two things which rings of power lacks. in this promo article, the rop writers summarize tolkien’s works as about “friendship,” “brotherhood,” and, “underdogs overcoming great darkness,” and cannot imagine a tolkien story without hobbits. from this, it’s clear that they were first peter jackson movie fans, and then read all other book material as auxiliary support for what is inevitably peter jackson’s interpretation of tolkien’s writings on the third age. whether or not i agree with pj’s interpretation is irrelevant against the fact that the first and second ages of middle earth are stories with completely different themes than the third age. interpreting everything though the same thematic lens as the third age is a fundamentally flawed approach to telling a second age story.

the second age is permeated by arguably recent, memorable trauma from the war of wrath—the human characters are further removed via the mortal generations that have passed, but many of the elves were alive to see these events in (relatively) recent memory. this dissonance between elves and men regarding the events of the first age fuels some of the most interesting wider conflict throughout the second age (ex. the númenóreans being manipulated to become obsessed with/envious of elven immortality & the powers of the valar). furthermore, the world impact (i can’t say global impact because the world is not yet a globe) of the war of wrath fuels the setting (political reformation, social, cultural, and technical development). but rings of power ignores all of this because the showrunners don’t seem know what to do with any of it. they are trying to interpret second age events as if they have the same story elements/are painted in the same thematic palette as the events of the war of the ring. they relegate the events of the first age to ‘ancient history,’ instead of using its fallout as direct motivation for anyone except galadriel (more on this in the following section). the tension between elves and men is flattened into an allegory for contemporary immigration, which neither makes sense in-universe (there is a scene in which a group of men gather in the town square to protest the elves ‘stealing their jobs’ even though there is only one (1) elf on the island and she has not to date done any labor or craft associated with the people present), nor adapts the canon themes of anti-industrialization, anti-materialism, and fear of mortality.

on: character—whether the writers were/are incapable of doing their own analysis of the text, or their analysis is flawed, the result is that they struggle to write characters and conflicts who don’t fit into stock tropes. for example: galadriel—she’s the only elf who has any trauma about the war of wrath/the wars in beleriand, and this makes her seem like a poor communicator at best and paranoid/unreasonable at worst (she claims sauron is still at large but the writers never give the audience a reason to believe this, which implies that her crusade is fueled by dubiously exceptional trauma). this is especially egregious in a scene played opposite elrond where she tells him he can’t possibly understand her pain, and he just kind of lets this accusation stand despite the fact that he was functionally orphaned in a slaughter, and then adopted by two mass murderers before losing them too. but i digress.

on: canon lore—many creative decisions were ostensibly made to appeal to casual fans of the peter jackson movies. characters with recognizable names are given top billing in the storylines. galadriel. elrond. the pre-hobbits are given an entire section. meanwhile, key players of the second age like celebrimbor and gil-galad are made side characters in elrond plotline. why? because no one who has only seen the films recognizes their names, thus they wouldn’t be profitable to feature, and they wouldn’t sell a show. it’s only so transparent because the writers spend every episode contemplating how best to recreate memorable moments from the lord of the rings movies. galadriel is constantly shot with close ups on her eyes to mirror her film introduction in fellowship. shots of bronwyn (one of the rop original characters) at the elven outpost are framed, blocked, and even written in word-for-word monologue to recreate iconic éowyn-at-helms-deep scenes. various characters are constantly quoting the lord of the rings movies. the worst is when bronwyn practically quotes a section of sam’s iconic osgiliath speech to her frightened son, implying that sam’s speech is a collection of common idioms.

on a tangible level, the writers also fail at the monumental task of presenting a large map in a way that makes sense to people who don’t already know the world. they represent “the southlands,” as two villages, giving the sense that mordor as a whole is about fifteen kilometers wide. the timeline is fucked because they tried to condense it, while giving no clear indication of when anything is happening in relation to anything else, so it’s incredibly difficult to grasp the scope of any project or journey. for some reason they invented a fourth silmaril of dubious origin. they had elrond, raised by sons of fëanor, swear an oath only to break it in the following episode. they’ve made the choice to have all the elves speak quenya without acknowledging the history of sindarin vs. quenya and the politics of why certain elves speak it or don’t (i would love to see even one nod to thingol’s influence on elven language).

tl;dr—rings of power misreads, misunderstands, and miscommunicates the crucial themes of the second age. this leads to a complete misinterpretation of the pre-known movie characters they feature, as well as a sidelining of important book characters who aren’t movie-fan favourites. their attempt to properly explore a vast setting is clumsy, and the show invents lore out of a source material that already has arguably too much. 

(i have to go run some errands but i have more to say on rop as a poor piece of writing regardless of its status as a so-called adaptation. i’ll be back.)

#ask fbp #anon ask #fandom posting #rop critical #anti rop #anti amazon lotr #anti rings of power #amazon rings of power #rings of power #rings of power negative #anti trop #rings of power critical #rings of power analysis #rings of power meta

[hanzajesthanza]

really cool asks i received from @electricbluenb literal months ago, but never got around to publishing :P! but i still want to post this because this is quite interesting:

electricbluenb asked:

Hi! I'm here to report on a lecture I've listened to about Witcher!!!!

Exposition: the lecturer (she) is a philologist, specifically a researcher of fantasy as a transmedia phenomenon; the lecture is titled: 'Witcher Universe. Books, games, series', and from the short description in the announcements I imagined I wouldn't hear much new, or positive takes about TWN (derogatory), and I was interested to listen to it. It was only 90 minutes, so obviously it wasn't super deep in material.

The lecturer did show up in a t-shirt with a print of TW3 Geralt holding a kitten on it, and a games-style Wolf School medallion. For context this is a free library event in Moscow, held in Russian. I am writing this on the same night, so please excuse possible mistakes and I'll try to elaborate if needed.

Overall, I have to say that I haven't heard much that I can't find on your blog. That is only to say that the woman knows her stuff, and that she'd probably be delighted to hear about yours.

Summary of points:

Transmedia (media in different mediums which seeks to build upon each other, unlike adaptation, which only reframes source in a different medium, by her definition) often begins, like fanfiction, in places where source material is incomplete (like how many lotr fanfics focus on Silmarillion). It is crucial for both adaptations and transmedia to be made with love for source material, which TWN showrunners clearly lack.

Historical context and its empirical feel ("liquidity" of reality in the presence of great political and social change, end-of-the-world forefeeling) of the time when Sapkowski created earlier novellas is crucial to interpreting and adapting them. That feel of the setting, and also self-irony and subvertiveness of the text are what both The Hexer and TWN do not translate to the viewer.

Regarding games, she mostly calls them transmedia (not adaptation). She argues that writers of the games recreated that "liquid", end-of-the-world timespace better (not necessarily accurate to lore) than The Hexer or TWN, and more importantly excelled at culture-coding the setting as polish, making it attractive to other slav people as well.

She said with her whole chest that TWN production, and Lauren Hissrich specifically, is just not putting any fucking effort into looking at source material, slapping diversity on what they don't understand to already have themes of otherness and conflict (The Greater Evil is the only example I have in my written notes for books, but she also pointed at games' presenting Geralt as non-human and how it is involved in quests).

In that same vein, she said there's just no romantic relationship between Geralt and Yennefer in TWN, which in books is relying on Eros and Thanatos, and weirdly that drive, finding no exit, is instead can be seen when comparing Renfri fight and stryga fight (she put up screenshots side by side), Geralt only loving the monstrous, and intimacy being deadly (in stryga fight the 'disenchanting kiss' bite). In the games she pointed at the cinematic trailer for Blood and Wine (fight with Orianna / Lullaby of Woe), and went over how it's basically also Eros/Thanatos imagery.

Continuing on Yennefer, she said that it is just laughable to call the character TWN portrays 'Yennefer', because 'inner logic of the character says otherwise', because there's no Yen & Ciri mother-daughter relationship, and the character seems to be 'more like Ciri's either older or younger sister who is afraid of her'.

She touched upon game / series / books interconnectivity (two swords on Geralt's back in Season of Storms versus one in pentalogy, TWN changing Nilfgaardian armour for s3, CDPR adding TWN's Nilfgaardian armor as an option on iirc ps5 edition) and just that it's interesting to her as a researcher that there exist points of clear medium interactions that are expressions of interest and love for the creation, even if the creation is flawed.

She argued that an english translation (the one that she read, obviously there might be different ones) has less visible irony across both text and subtext, in part, possibly, due to censure. I kinda doubt her expertise on english lit as she does seem more focused on Russian lit and translations to Russian, but basically she argues it might be another ground where TWN is just out of depth.

In the Q&A portion I mentioned Redanian Intelligence's article about 'western audiences' and she completely agreed it is just an excuse for what is a skill issue on showrunner's part.

That's all for my report. Hope it leaves you feeling affirmed, knowing that somewhere there are scholars who agree, almost to the letter, completely. :)

electricbluenb asked:

Oops, missed some notes.

As a true researcher, she held a poll on books vs. TWN.

Of about ~25 people in the audience:

22 read the books, 22 liked the books

24 watched S1, 0 loved S1 (aside feelings for actors), 2 people were meh on S1

20 watched S2, again 0 for loving S2

7 watched S3, another 7 considered watching S3, and again 0 for loving S3.

She was prepared to talk more about Ciri, Falka, and Regis, but time was very short.

---

i was really elated to hear about this, the term transmedia is fascinating and i feel like this applies to the witcher phenomenon really well. the term "adaptation" doesn't suit the games, which take the books as a starting point. the topic of interconnectivity between the various mediums is also great, certainly true as every witcher media begins to reflect one another as they're created. one topic i'm interested here is where did geralt's facial scar originally come from, as there is some art of it which predates the creation of the games.

"the setting, and also self-irony and subvertiveness of the text" is definitely what i find missing in netflix as well. i believe the continent, at least in the pentalogy, is way more fleshed out than people think, and the setting really really begins to define the story during the saga, so much so that it becomes as important as the characters themselves. the irony and subversion the text uses are truly hallmarks of the witcher, as well as intertextuality with other fantasy works.

to this list, i would also add comedy :D though twn tries to be funny sometimes it seems to be in an entirely different context and different angle. i was thinking yesterday about how some of the comic characters present in the short stories: dandelion, torque, tellico, freixenet, really had their comedic presence entirely changed or removed from netflix's version. and i thought about the barbegazi and knocker from tower of the swallow, these guys are so funny and endearing, if strange and odd. i think something that netflix does which really, really clashes with the books, is that they treat every monster like a serious threat or at the very least dull them down. in the books, i'd wager that at least half of the 'monsters' present are actually used for comedic effect as well as dramatic effect. now, it's not separate, plenty of characters are both. but netflix seems to only focus on monsters as dangerous, whereas in the books they can actually be quite funny. i think this use of comedy presents a world that is "comfortable" being a fantasy world, that has really incorporated its fantasy elements in a realistic way, so that it's not just there for drama, but has integrated itself into every part of life.

i adore the comparison of geralt and yennefer's relationship with that of the fight with adda, vereena, or renfri. this is something i've been thinking about for a while. exactly, yennefer in the last wish is the antagonist of the story - a powerful, magical woman, literally, a witch. in this sense, yennefer is not unlike the other dangerous opponents geralt faces. in many myths and stories, the hero faces, challenges, defeats an evil witch, sorceress, female user of magic who aims to seduce, deceive the hero. this is the trope we're working with.

the kicker is that yennefer's character gets developed past this, as she begins to be intimately explored - even beyond geralt's lens - and within their context, we see their relationship transform from antagonistic to romantic to fates intertwined. but their chemistry and energy begins with that inherent match in energy, their yin and yang, light and dark, witch and witcher. that (literally) electric sense, that yennefer is never going to be 'defeated' by geralt, that she remains independent even while by his (and ciri's) side.

overall i really enjoyed this report, and respect this lecturer a lot! again, sorry i took so long to publish this as it's been a strange past few months, but better late than never :')

#ask #electricbluenb #the witcher books #the witcher games #the witcher netflix

[crabcackes]

I think most discussions and or criticism of political and social dilemmas in dragon age fail to grasp that it's a cumulative work that consists of multiple titles including not only games but also books, comicses and TV shows. All this things were written by different writers that not only have different views but also different perception of dragon age lore and canon. Even if we look at games only - not only have the people who worked on them changed over the years - in framework of each individual game there are inconsistencies and different interpretations of canon because there are multiple writers and developers on the team. Like how can someone discuss for example "Mage conflict" if the were multiple interpretation of what mages suppose to mean in canon. Like we had mages are a metaphor for oppressed minority ( but which one? Different instances point to different interpretation from metaphors of mental illnesses to race and nationality to sexuality to all at once) At the same time there were cases where writers used mages as a metaphor for guns and issues of gun legislation. Some instances use mages as a stand in for scientists ( typical trope in fantasy wriring) to depict mad scientists and "they were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should" trope. And this goes for many other aspects of the game. I think at this point it's only worth pointing out instances were the franchise does something that has affect on reality, bad or good. Like when it has good representation or bad, when it whitewashes charactes (again), when it uplifts someone when it punches someone down. Do anyone else have other examples of such inconsistencies and double metaphors in dragon age that annoy you?

#bioware critical #dragon age critical

[safetyrat]

My take on the Jack Manifold being killed by Tommy discussions

This is written so someone who isnt caught up can understand, so lets start at the beginning, Jack Manifolds ad Tommys relationship. Irl Jack and Tommy are very close, but I don’t think they had a strong established relationship in character before exile, especially because Jack was mia for a lot of lore? Many relationships on the smp get taken from the ccs dynamics before the smp (wilbur and tommys mentor/brotherhood, puffychus date), which is why they have been interpreted as close? Jack was part of lmanburg and they have interacted for sure, so I think its fair to say they were friends in roleplay, even if not like,, best friends

during exile, jack visited Tommy- well, tried to visit. Tommy punched him off the bridge in the nether and made sure he died. Jack lost all his stuff and was pissed offed - but that was about it.

The tone of the visit could maybe be compared to the one with Mamacita and Mexican Dream? It was in character, but it wasn’t... serious?

It feels wrong to call it “friendly banter” when mexican dream died, but you cant call it a “Building Character Moment For TommyInnit” either. Jacks visit was similar.

At that point, neither Jack nor Tommy refered to the death as “canon” - the wiki did, however. Not sure what happend there, but it was listed as Jacks second death and when he died on Doomsday, went to hell and back - that part of lore doesn’t work without Tommy killing him.

After Jack came back from hell, he started a bigger character arc with Niki revolving around taking revenge on tommyinnit. Killing him until he is dead permanently. And while that is not presented as the right thing to do - both niki and jack consider their characters villains - its not irrational or without motive.

Tommy has made mistakes and hurt people - whether these were justified is in the eye of the beholder.

For Jacks arc right now, Tommy killing him is an important motivator and a driving point for his plot. Nothing about Jacks current character would be the same without it. Because he acknowledged the death and it was on the wiki for the longest time, its generally considered canon by the fandom.

So, case closed? Tommy killed a man while depressed in exile- yeah, that doesn’t sound right.

A Tommyinnit analysist pointed that out,, earlier today? Thats why we are having this discussion right now. I’m not sure they would appreciate me mentioning their username here, but ive read their analyses before and theyre great, they have a lot of interesting thoughts, and i agree with them bringing this up!! please never send hate to anyone about character analysis!! some people (like me) actually do this for fun.

so, i dont want to touch exileinnit to much, there is a lot to talk about, but... TommyInnit would kill somebody without a second thought. Canon deaths are heavy, theyre big, theyre- and you cannot compare this to punz killing wilbur! Yeah, that wasnt a big character moment for punz, but on one hand hes a mercenary, killing people is kind of part of his job, and on the other hand- the story around lmanburg is not a character focused one, thats a big part of wilburs writing. His main goal is progressing the geopolitical plot and let the character be shaped by it - themes like personal conflict seem less big when there is the fate of a country on your hands.

The exile arc is an entirely character focused story. It deals with themes like mental illness and inner turmoil... do you think it would pass the chance on discussing tommys feelings about killing someone? A past friend, no less?

Murdering someone, on purpose, completly changes the morality of tommys character, and im not ready to commit to that.

There are more reasons I think this, ask me to elaborate if you want, but in my eyes there is no way that Tommy could kill someone in exile with it still being consistent with his character.

So, whats the conclusion?:

TommyInnit killing Jack Manifold is canon in Jacks story, but isn’t canon in Tommys. There is no other way eithers devolopment makes sense otherwise.

This is it. An inconsistency. A plain old plothole.

Oh no, the cinematic masterpiece (/s) that is the dream smp has a plothole, what do we do now?:

...move on? There is no way discussing this will change anything. This type of inconsistency is unique to the dream smp as a medium where the creators have a direct dialogue with the fanbase. This is not the first or last time the wiki has made weird deaths canon, I personally disagree that quackity and schlatt died in the explosion of tubbos execution. This doesnt do against the wiki writers or anything, you guys are so important for this community, but you do stand in direct contact with the creators - an active fan would have probably more, but more importantly different, knowledge of the lore than 90% of the members.

Dont be harsh on the fans, dont be harsh on the ccs, we are exploring a new type of mass reaching story telling here guys.

how do we still make this consistent for the storyline?:

this is where the analysis ends, we are diving more into headcanon territory, but I choose to believe that this was a canon death, but tommy didnt realize it is. In my opinion this just feeds into Jacks themes of being ignored, not taken seriously, etc.

tldr: while tommy killing jack was considered canon for a long time, it doesnt work if you want to have tommys character make sense. Instances like this, where dubious canon gets reinterpreted later happen because of the dream smps unique type of storytelling and should not be a reason for conflict in the fandom.

Thanks for reading, if any of this doesnt make sense after tommys last stream, that I didnt watch because writing this, youre allowed to personally come into my house and assassinate me.

#this is a 1000 words long... i wrote this on a whim... I havent done homework in months... why am I like this?? #discourse #negative #depression mention #dream smp #dsmp #dream smp analysis #tommyinnit #jack manifold #long post #critical #dream smp meta

[crylockchaos]

No, Tellexx; I Will Not Simply Follow Along: Part One of a Reading of Razzmatazz’s Story

Razzmatazz stands out for many reasons.  Since the band takes the “concept album” to a new level by creating a “concept band” through lore Razzmatazz stands out, in my opinion, because of the compromised role between writers and readers. There are many ways to look and interpret the story behind the songs, if readers choose to see the songs as telling a story.  I’m going to share my own interpretation.  This “reading” is influenced by “The Death of the Author” by Roland Barthes, and “Interpreting the Variorum” by Stanley Fish.  I find that the album critiques ideas of Marxist theory and mocks the industry that fuels modern music as seen by the nods to Theodor Adorno, Max Horkheimer, and Walter Benjamin; but relies on the reader to create the story more than the use of satire.  The album cannot work because the text “disappears” (Fish 485) without reader interaction.  Weekes and Seaman cannot fully control how readers “read” their work, which I think is something they encourage through the ambiguous nature of the text. Through reoccurring symbols in the songs and videos the story unfolds in subtle ways, encouraging the listeners to not simply follow along, but to engage with the lore to understand what is happening to the narrator.  I will go through, in order of each piece, enabling the “birth of the reader” (Barthes 521) to tell the story in the way I interpret it.

The story begins with “Leave Me Alone”.  The characters, Dallon and Ryan enter the corporation in 2020 based on the use of masks and safety precautions taken for the real events taking place.  The “volunteer pairing” (“Indoctrination” iDKHOW) takes their first step in working for the corporation Tellexx.  Ryan is clear in his resistance towards the means and ideas of the company, hence why he is wearing a mask more often.  To prevent rebellion, Tellexx separates Ryan from Dallon using isolation boxes and masks him to force him into compliance.  They do this with Dallon too, but to a lesser extent because if Tellexx wishes to spread its influence Dallon needs to use his voice.  Ryan’s rebellion is stifled easier because of his role as percussion by wearing a mask, but that does not mean he is powerless.  He strongly opposes Tellexx’s ideas to the point where the company views him as a threat, so they attempt to stop him from communicating through isolation and forced muting with a mask.  But it doesn’t stop him.  His lack of face expressions and movement within each video show his rebellion.  What at first comes off as unusual and perhaps humorous allows Ryan to hold the role of a Byronic Hero.  His rebellion comes through his intelligence and outward appearance.  Instead of parading around playing a role, Ryan goes against Tellexx’s wishes and simply does not do anything.  Tellexx views him as a direct threat and minimizes his role strictly to percussion, but that does not stop him, which I will return to later.

Dallon is much more subtle with his pressure, but the Tellex workers suspect rebellion based on lines such as “the devil that you know is better than the devil that you don’t” (Weekes 2020) or “mad as a hatter with a dagger and a dollar sign” (Weekes 2020), where Dallon exposes the knowledge that Tellexx will dispose of them if they no longer create profit.  As I have mentioned in the past, there are two voices within Dallon; which makes this song the origin of the split between the Warner (the side working against Tellexx) and the Threatener (the side working for Tellexx).  The Warner’s voice in “Leave Me Alone” is Dallon’s rebellion through his knowledge of the sinister means.  Both Dallon and Ryan do not trust Tellexx’s values and know that the corporation wishes to spread its influence in music through time and space for more capital in the created industry.  Yet there’s a split created by Tellexx during the experimentation in the video.  Dallon changes from animated and active while singing to still and threatening when he says “go fly a kit until you’re tangled in the hang tree” (Weekes 2020).  This change is the initial incident that sparks the main conflict in this reading: man versus self- Warner versus Threatener, Dallon’s good versus Dallon’s bad. Tellexx controls a part of Dallon, allowing him to freely sing and move around without being attached to anything. “Leave Me Alone” in the story proves to Tellexx that the pairing is suitable under these conditions, and they are sent into time, meanwhile Dallon’s internal conflict grows.  

“Indoctrination” is a flashback.  This piece serves the purpose to enlighten the audience of Tellexx’s means and plan, while also revealing exactly what Dallon and Ryan are resisting.  Calling the section indoctrination reveals the malicious side of Tellexx as we hear the literal brainwashing the corporation uses on the “volunteer pairing” (iDKHOW 2020).  This aspect of the piece gives listeners insight to what Dallon and Ryan have faced regarding thought reform and Tellexx’s corporate agenda.  This part of the text reveals the side of Tellexx that listeners are suspicious of, confirming it as the antagonist against I Dont [sic.] Know How But They Found Me.  By having the piece say that the pairing and Tellex will “work together to decode and / exploit the secrets of time and space for our benefit” (iDKHOW), it uses negative connotation to create rebellion through the verb “exploit”. Listeners side with Warner Dallon and Silent Ryan because we understand that Tellexx seeks the secrets of time for selfish matters: to spread their influence and create an industry that they control.  It works alongside “Leave Me Alone” to initiate the two major conflicts: the internal conflict within Dallon, and the band versus the corporation.  Through this, White Shadow character and the Threatener have clear origins.  Both were created to “be sure that the company’s interests maintain the highest priority” (iDKHOW).  This includes the White Shadow following Dallon and Ryan to prevent rebellion and acting in a way that places pressure against Mechanical Reproduction and the industry, and the Threatener acting as a character of Thought Reform within Dallon who is trying to eliminate the Warner’s awareness.  This allows White Shadow to serve as a metaphorical reminder of failures of the past and would allow the Threatener to coax Dallon into serving Tellexx’s needs.  Since Threatener is made by Tellexx, this side of Dallon uses an underlying fear to control Dallon and force him to continue working for the corporation.

Warner can see Tellexx’s malevolent goals.  This side of Dallon, the narrator, uses his voice to create awareness of his opposition and to alert listeners, making “Mad IQs” an internal monologue.  The song is Warner’s rebellion since Dallon is free to sing without a mask on, using voice to reveal the malicious intent behind the corporation’s goal to exploit time and space for capital.  This aspect of the narrator exposes Tellexx as a toxic corporation that is taking over Dallon’s mind and being, hinting that this side of him is aware of Threatener’s presence.  Through themes of controlling entity and voluntary ignorance, Warner is admitting that Dallon is losing himself inside the corporation by working for them.  The brainwashing from the memories associated with “Indoctrination” has allowed Dallon to become the “voluntary victim” (Weekes 2020) and give up his sense of right and wrong, and his own identity, making him view himself as a being of Tellexx.  The song alerts listeners that voluntary ignorance has led Dallon into a trap, one that he cannot escape.  Warner attempts to alert listeners of the situation, hinting at ideas of Mechanical Reproduction with “replace you with machines” (Weekes 2020) and “paralyzed by the sum of your parts” (Weekes 2020) to hint that Dallon’s entity is controlled, making both Warner and Threatener’s voices compromised and unreliable; which would explain why Dallon is constantly moving around and is energetic during the video performances, because Threatener is telling him to do so for the benefit of the corporation.

This would explain Dallon’s disappointment at the end of “Nobody Likes the Opening Band”.  This piece is the band’s first attempt at spreading influence and it’s a failure.  The piece acknowledges how the band is only starting in the industry.  By saying “chances are they won’t go far / career is sure to end” (Weekes 2020) the piece reveals that the industry discourages artists with different thoughts.  Tellexx scorns those who go against their ideas, and make sure that industry develops in a way that benefits only one way of thinking, making Warner appear in the wrong as he tries to assist Dallon in making original music.  White Shadow’s disapproval at the end of the video reveals that Dallon has failed to act and perform in a way that benefits the company, pushing his fear into reality.  This enables Threatener to take control and hide Warner, further placing Dallon’s entity in the hands of the corporation and forcing him to lose himself just to be successful.  This fear and idea of failure pushes Dallon to go to 1964 to begin spreading the band’s influence in “Do It All the Time” and then “Social Climb” in 1977, in which both are successful in spreading Tellexx’s ideas and values.  However, this song’s video does more than highlight Dallon’s fall; it also reveals more of Ryan’s rebellion.  By stepping away from the stage to scorn Dallon, Ryan further separates himself from Tellexx.  His actions and moody facial expressions highlight his silent rebellion, one that Tellexx cannot fully control.  If he’s not doing anything technically wrong, they cannot punish him despite their indoctrination strategies.  He is watching what Tellexx is doing to Dallon and resists their attempts to control him by staying silent and using minimal actions.  Doing this gives Ryan power over his entity and self, revealing to readers that his actions are reliable.  

Ryan uses his autonomy in “New Invention” to drag Dallon out of Tellexx’s control and diminishes the grasp Threatener has on him.  He takes Dallon to where Tellexx first created the split to return his entity to him.  The video and song start off with the idea of a devil on the shoulder, which implies The Warner’s awareness of his own instability. He knows that Tellexx is still controlling him to a degree, and how this had created a split.  The Warner knows that The Threatener is attacking him and is desperate to make listeners aware of what happened after “Leave Me Alone”. “You’ve got the devil on your shoulder” (Weekes 2020) implies the light/dark contrast that reoccurs in the other songs. The following line is directly from The Threatener because of the sudden shift: “you better shut your mouth just like I told ya” [sic.] (Weekes 2020).  The Threatener uses it as a threat, implying that unless The Warner is quiet, he will intervene and take full control. The overlapping vocals at the end of this song would show the full conflict between the two sides.  The Warner is having “bad dreams” (Weekes 2020) and can’t get away from the Threatener, even when asleep; meanwhile the Threatener is saying that Dallon is an invention created by Tellexx.  Ryan’s attempt to restore Dallon’s mindset highlights the unreliable nature of Dallon’s character because of the indoctrination and experimentation from the past.  With his identity compromised, Ryan knows that he is the only person who can push the conflict and create resistance.  He resets Dallon not only to return his autonomy and identity, but also to give listeners a reliable narrator since he is still limited by Tellexx.  Ryan cannot use his voice, but his actions speak for him throughout the video and song.  Through Ryan’s actions, Tellexx’s control over Dallon is minimalized, yet the Warner and Threatener are still in conflict.

 I’ll continue this as I can.  School is about to restart for me.

#dallon weekes #dallon idkhow #Ryan Seaman #idkhow #idkhow but they found me #i dont know how but they found me #Razzmatazz #leave me alone #indoctrination #mad iqs #nobody likes the opening band #new invention #1981 extended play #do it all the time #absinthe #social climb #choke #time travel #tellexx #writing #part two is coming #follow along #search party #music #why am i doing this #turning a simple album into a scholarly work #i'm practising for honours leave me alone #the brobecks #1981 ep #idkhbtfm

[bronyinabottle]

Post-Trailer Generation 5 Thoughts

So, a trailer for the beginning of G5 has now been released. And as promised, I am having a supplementary post to my preliminary thoughts and concerns heading into G5. Though I do first want to answer something I’m sure some might be curious about and that’s if G5 will have any bearing on I Dream of Twilight Sparkle. Given the thing about it being supposedly being the same Equestria at least according to mentions of the Mane 6 as the ancient times and by execs.

G5’S EFFECT ON I DREAM OF TWILIGHT SPARKLE

I will go ahead and say that no, other then if there’s maybe a part of the movie and/or upcoming series I want to make some sort of reference to for any reason that G5 will not happen in the IDOTS universe. The thing about the premise of G5 contradicts a huge thing that’s part of Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear in that Life itself is Magic. With presumably years and years of no magic, G5’s world wouldn’t exist. It’d be the lifeless wasteland that was seen in the Season 5 finale. I will stay firmly on G4 characters as I still have plenty I want to do with them. I’ve once thought about ending I Dream of Twilight Sparkle on the 10th anniversary of the blog next year. But that might not be enough time to fully explore everything I want to do post-Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear. So rest assured I have lots of plans still without having to dive into G5 material.

Another huge difference in IDOTS case that I will point out is that thousands of years by now as I imagine is implied by G4 being Ancient Equestria in G5. Is that Twilight (and Spike too, who will probably be full size at that point) will still be around. And even the others of the Mane 6 and other characters of the G4 generation will likely be able to guide the living as summonable spirits. I doubt under that context that the world of Equestria deteriorates to G5’s situation with this all in mind.

(More after the break)

REITERATING THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE G4-G5 CONNECTION

But now to actually get the trailer itself, it generally shows what we know already but this is the first time we see a little bit in how they’re executing it in motion and acting. They are going to continue mentioning that G4 is the ancient times of this world with the only reason Pony relations that seems to have deteriorated is the long passage of time. Which seems like a terrible interpretation of time. Division still happens in our world especially in the politics side of things but thousands of years ago (or even just a few hundred years ago) it was far worse then it is now with authoritarian empires, monarchies, and enslavement of people everywhere. There’s not a period of history from thousands of years ago that most of us look to have again like Sunny will for Twilight’s reign.

If we are to take it at face value that G5 happened after G4, the peaceful world we saw in The Last Problem where not just all 3 pony types but even non-pony species popullate many areas of Equestria and live in harmony. Even if perhaps you’re not a fan of one or both of the final two seasons of the show, The Last Problem showed that Twilight’s friendship school accomplished it’s goal in helping Equestria reach out to other places in the world. It’s hard to see from that point how things can deteriorate where things seem to be far worse then Celestia’s sole rule of 1,000 years. Or to go even further, it seems to have gotten just as bad if not worse then the Hearth’s Warming story of the founding of Equestria. It’s arguably worse then even the Hearth’s Warming story since even if it was obvious the three types of ponies hated each other, they tolerated each other enough to bargain the necessities at that point. The earth ponies would make the food if the Unicorns move the sun and moon and the Pegasi help with the weather. But as seen in the trailer even one sighting of a unicorn in an Earth pony town puts the whole place in a panic.

Speaking of the Hearth’s Warming story they’re going to have explain why the Windigoes aren’t currently ravaging the planet in Ice and Snow like in the story if we’re to truly believe this is the G4 world we know. Somehow I feel they’re not going to for that deep cut in terms of the lore of G4. I think any connection to G4 is going to be treated more as an afterthought. References to Twilight and her friends, the toys in Sunny’s house, and murals to the past the only huge indications that G4 was the ancient past and never explaining how things got where they are now. I believe this is an attempt of Hasbro to bake it’s cake and eat it too. They want to try to retain G4’s popularity heading into G5 so they try to say G5 is the same exact world even when so much of the evidence we’ve seen so far is too different to be world we knew. (I know there’s a map that shows the Pegasi have what might have once been Canterlot. But there still needs to be more) I feel like most fans going into this should go into this thinking this is a totally new world despite the references to G4. Or even perhaps the ancient G4 isn’t the same G4 we saw in the show. Maybe the Friendship school never happened in this timeline for example. An alternate universe G4 where they never developed the school might make this at least somewhat more palatable. Though even then there’d still be questions.

Another note in the story is as a sort of flipped from G4. Where Canterlot had Unicorns seem to make up most of the rich upper-class ponies. The pegasi seem to be the upper-class and/or royals this time while the Unicorns are actually the poorest of the three and Earth Ponies are middle-class. I slightly joked after hearing that maybe this is a universe where Cozy Glow actually got what she wanted given she was a Pegasus heh. Not that makes any sense either, as there’s probably no honoring of the Mane 6 if they got defeated by a Pegasus filly.

BOOK LEAK

On the same day of the trailer we also got something of a leak of book that comes out next week that recaps the movie in a children’s book style (Don’t worry I won’t spoil anything from it, but yes I did see the scans). Now naturally not all details of an entire movie is probably going to get in a picture book with small excerpts of text on a 32 page book. But it does generally give an outline of how the movie goes. The scans give enough of an outline of how the movie will go. I just have too much concern about G5 to resist knowing how the movie will go to wait until the movie releases. I still intend to see the movie itself but it’ll sort of give me an idea of what we’re in for. For a spoiler-free review of what I know, I think under it’s own merits if we ignore the G4 elephant in the room it’ll probably be a decent way to start things.

FANDOM REACTION

I think if the context was G5 was it’s own separate universe with no connection to G4 it could potentially have some standing on it’s own and will probably have young kids enjoy the movie that see G5 before they see Friendship is Magic. For older fans of G4 though, heading into this generation there’s going to be a lot of things preoccupying the mind before we even start watching the movie. Having G4 as the ancient past has something of a pro of at least getting some fans who liked FiM to at least give this a chance, but at the cost of leaving certain expectations and putting some of the creative freedom in a bind because to tell us this is the same world means you will have fans pointing out contradictions where as there would be no concern if this world was allowed to be it’s own thing The writers and staff of G5 are going to have fans that criticize them for any choice they make that doesn’t fit with G4 in some way. I’m not going to be one of them of course, as that’s annoying behavior even if I agree with the fan who’s criticizing them. And fans have plenty to already raise an eyebrow at, such as normal animals oddly having wings and/or horns when normal animals tended to be just normal animals in G4 (Albeit alot more sentient then real life animals).

LACK OF NON-PONIES?

There also doesn’t seem to be any sign of the other species that became more prominent in late G4. There’s not even a Spike from what we can see thus far. Unless maybe there’s a 6th main character that gets introduced in the beginning of the series that has a little dragon companion this would be the first time since maybe My Little Pony Tales that there was no Spike. I imagine we will get the return of some non-pony species.but it’s still going to be an elephant in the room because the end of G4 showed that basically all other species became allies to the ponies. Did relations to the non-ponies also deteriorate terribly? And there’s also the possibility that many of the Dragons have long enough lives that they remember Twilight’s reign. Maybe even a possibility of full-grown Spike making an appearance in the series. But then there’s still griffins, hippogriffs/seaponies, yaks, kirins, changelings, and more. You keep the world of G4 you have to keep in mind all the species that played a role at some point. If you ignore them for too long it’s another point to those who might feel that this isn’t truly G4’s world.

ALICORNS

I won’t say much on subject of Alicorns since I already mentioned that in the preliminary thoughts, though I will reiterate things like even if say we overestimated the immortality of Alicorns they may still need to point out that Twilight, Celestia, Luna, Cadence, and probably Flurry Heart too are all gone. There doesn’t seem to be any signs of Alicorns at all. To be honest it might be that the only real Alicorn reference is the possibility during the scene where Izzy disguises everyone as unicorns. Someone manages to see either Zipp’s or Pipp’s wings and thus they get a lot of unwanted attention. (And in contrast probably one of the non-Izzy main characters horn disguise falling off)

CONFLICT AND HAPPY ENDING OVERRIDES

I get that the main response to concerns of G4 fans is there has to be some sort of conflict for this series to be interesting as otherwise you go back to the too saccharine days of G3 where the conflicts leave almost no danger to the world at large. But we can still point out that if this was presented as it’s own world separate from G4 this would be ok. But not the same world where Sunny’s goal had been more then already achieved. It doesn’t lay the blame at the Mane 6 for failing at the very least but it certainly looks down at all their descendants generations later of being unable to withhold the Mane 6’s lessons and keep the peace. They had the solutions for divisions mostly solved, yet it’s somehow squandered. It won’t be easy to swallow for anyone who loved the conclusive happy ending FiM got. And even for fans who weren’t as into the ending as others they’re only being vindictive if they say it makes their criticism of the ending valid.

The point is the series ended as happily as it could of gotten, and you will bug fans no matter what you do if you attempt a happy ending override. Just look at how for example the Last Jedi bothered some Star Wars fans with Luke’s characterization after the joyful end to the original trilogy.

HARD ACT TO FOLLOW & DIVISIVE FANDOM MOMENTS

Now, even if G5 had none of the pre-conditioned concerns it would have a lot to live up to. G4 is the absolute highest peak MLP has ever gotten to. Hasbro’s going to try to repeat the same success but it’s a lot more likely G4 remains a lightning in a bottle that can’t be repeated. And any attempt to recapture that lightning such as applying G4 as the ancient past is looking to backfire. It’s very likely that even if G5 is generally a success, Hasbro will not reap the same benefits that it got from G4. The cost of a big success is the pursuit of attempting to repeat that success but ultimately not working out quite the same way. I don’t wish any ill will of Generation 5, I want it to have an audience and the staff to enjoy themselves working on the show. I don’t think it will quite capture the same attention I gave to G4 but that’s ok. This is how Hasbro’s operated for decades, as I’m sure Transformers fans have gone through the same feeling.

There are shows that have maintained fandoms for years despite the show having ended more then 10 years ago. I don’t think Friendship is Magic is going to be forgotten anytime soon. There are sure to be clashes about G5 in the coming years as it’s impossible to control an entire fandom that will have it’s vocal parts at eachother’s throats. But I don’t plan on looking down on anyone who ends up enjoying G5, I hope in some way there are those who may enjoy G5 as much as we did G4. And also for said G5 fans to respect those who continue to do mainly G4 content. I plan to give G5 a chance to grow on me, I just know the G4 is the past concept is going to somewhat bother me in a similar way to how for a long while Starlight’s lack of a full-fledged backstory prevented me from looking at her character with nothing but lukewarm feelings (Until I expanded on her myself in a story after the show’s ending). But just like with Starlight I don’t plan to rain on the parade of those who did end up liking Starlight. Especially considering I’m probably among the fans that were on the other side of those arguments as someone who liked the idea of Alicorn Twilight despite how divisive it was. I’ve been somewhat on both sides of different controversies in G4’s time itself. As G4 itself had it’s own divisive parts in it’s own history. Arguably, G5 being the distant future makes it just another part of those fandom controversies.

Though even with everything that happened a positive side of all of those is there were many fans invested one way or another to get heated about the show. Not saying it’s a good thing to have fans at each other’s throats but it’s part of G4’s legacy that people cared when something disappointed them. I think while there were certainly a good number of fans that left the fandom over certain stuff especially in regards to Season 3 and the first Equestria Girls. Those who stayed generally still had good things to look forward to. I myself kind of feel like Starlight’s reformation was the closest to a jump the shark moment where Season 6 failed to capitalize on nearly all it’s opportunity of what Season 5 laid up for the show’s future. But there were still good episodes in Season 6, Season 7 had some pretty great episodes, Season 8 is a bit of a mixed bag but even that had it’s fun parts, and I’m on the side that I’m happy with how the final episodes of Season 9 finished off the show. I don’t think Starlight’s reformation was a point where the show never reached another high point and I’m happy it was successful enough to get a conclusive ending rather then either getting canceled after a finale that didn’t leave things off with a proper goodbye or ending too early. As if the show had not been as popular as it did, Magical Mystery Cure would of been the series finale. I’m actually one of those who loved MMC, but for the show not to get things like the CMC’s cutie marks and just leave things that Twilight is a princess and that’s it certainly would of been way too soon of an ending.

CONCLUSION

Obviously, the staff seemed to plan for more then 9 seasons as no doubt they probably had more plans for the Student 6 and/or Cozy Glow had they gotten the green light for Season 10 or more. But for what it’s worth, it still got an conclusion that not all cartoons like this get. For all it’s ups and downs, MLP retained my interest for the entire run that I started watching and I still intend to do fan content about it’s characters a few years after it ended, so G4 MLP continues to be retained in a special place in my heart. Perhaps that’s a big reason I have the concerns about G5 that I do that I’m attached to that universe and for it to say things go downhill even if it’s not really the fault of the Mane 6 or anything makes it hard to accept very easily. I do think my concerns about the G4-G5 connection have merit either way, but I will repeat that I don’t wish any ill will on G5. Whether fair or not, G5 has a lot to live up to after the success of G4 and the consequences will be there for fan expectations. I hope it finds a decent enough audience regardless, and I hope that if I try to ignore the baggage of the implications of an Ancient G4 Equestria being part of this that maybe there’s something there for me too. I never thought I’d be invested so much in a cartoon about magical talking horses to this point a long time ago, but gosh darn it G4 managed to do so. And the staff behind G5 will have a lot on their shoulders to try to maintain that interest. Even if that task is impossible, I hope they try their hardest. Even if I’m not as invested into this generation, I want to be able to respect a good try.

#mlp #my little pony #my little pony the next generation #g4 #g5 #mlp g5 #mlp g4 #netflix #my little pony movie #generation 5 #generation 4

[fatebreaking-a]

Sorry to bother you but i am out of the loop. What did Riot do with seraphine?

// @crying-elf-lass // First of all - excellent choice in pfp, Marcille is great.

Now, trying to keep as much bias out of my post as possible... ( though there will be some, and I will miss some things! )

There are three parts to consider. Gameplay, narrative, and niche in the world.

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First, we need to talk about the history of Sona in League of Legends.

Narrative & Niche: Sona, as a champion, has existed for many, many, many years. Her lore was 2 paragraphs and she had no short story. Her canon appearances ( excluding an Odssey short story which I will take about later ) were limited to other champion’s stories ( her adoptive mother, Lestara, helped Quinn to become a ranger-knight, she helped Ryze secure a World Rune in Call of Power ). Several years ago, Riot changed the lore of Demacia ( Sona’s current home ) to be one that denies magic. With the addition of petricite, a magic nullifying material, and several changes in lore, Demacia became the host of several magical problems ( dragons, Evelynn, Nocturne, Fiddlesticks ) and a unit of anti-magic specialists ( mageseekers ).

Throughout that time, up until 2 months ago, Sona’s lore did not receive a single meaningful change or update. This is a period of over 5 years, in which one of Demacia’s only mages / magical creatures ( Poppy, Lux, Sona, Shyvana, and later Sylas ) did not get any sort of answer as to what is happening with her. Several other champions did get an explanation of sorts, with some manner of handwaiving - for example, minotaurs are part of the Demacian army, so magical creatures are not out and out excluded. Yordles are known to be seen differently by different people, so Poppy’s existence is also possible to explain ( we learned this with an interaction between Ziggs and Jinx in Zaun ).

This left Sona writers in a general state of confusion. Is Sona in jail? Is Sona a registered mage? Not to mention that Sona left Ionia ( where a war between Noxus and Ionia occurred ) and the timing of that was unspecified.

Which led to a giant gap in terms of “what is this champion doing and what is her situation”. And each of us tried to fill that gap in our own ways. Some of us had Sona leave Demacia, some had her retreat into her mansion and play less music, some had her be defiant, and so on. Because the last thing we learned was that she was in Ionia, helping Ryze with the World Rune, some people put her in Ionia semi-permanently.

And we also had to contend with the existence of Sylas, who flipped Demacia on its head and caused something of a mage hunt. The finer details of that I exclude, it’s enough to say that certain mages were rounded up and put in prison where once they were exiled, and Lux helped some magically inclined individuals escape. There’s a nuanced conflict there between several members of Demacia ( Garen, Jarvan, Lux, Xin Zhao, Tianna, etc ) but getting into that is not the point of this.

We still didn’t know anything about Sona. So Sona writers and players and enthusiasts tried their very best to fill in the gap with what we did know, often incidentally. We did know that Sona was once in Ionia, that the Ionia-Noxus war happened, that she moved to Demacia, and that she is a famous musician with a magical instrument. Prior to the removal of the Institute of War ( a part of lore which said that ‘summoners’ were real and nations used Summoners + Champions to settle conflicts ), Sona was known globally and was basically Runeterra’s #1 musician when it comes to the etwahl, perhaps more. We also know that Sona is an extremely empathetic person, and her music is borderline spellbinding, to the point where it was easy to guess that she could affect people’s emotions and was an empath. None of that was out and out confirmed, but it was easy to make that logical conclusion.

Very recently, Sona’s lore changed. In it, a lot changed. We learned that she left Ionia with others, rather than just alone and with her etwahl, and it was to escape the Ionia conflict ( not because Lestara, her adoptive mother, wished to possess the fabled etwahl ). Essentially, this new lore painted Sona far more as a war refugee, and painted Lestara in a far better light as well. Along with this lore update/rework, we also got a short story ( that still left what she’s doing now up in the air!) 

However, this came after a several year wait. And in that time, Sona enthusiasts had no choice but to come up with answers to all their burning questions by themselves. One Sona writer followed the ‘Sona is the aspect of harmony’ track, another followed the ‘music as a means of community togetherness’ track, another put her as an oversensitive empath who uses music to heal the pain of her people - and we all tend to agree on one point - Sona is an extremely empathetic person who uses her music for the good of others.

And as we waited, several other champions appeared, some of them overlapping with Sona’s music theme. Bard, the wanderer who listens to the songs of creation itself. Jhin, the murderous theater performer and assassin who believes the world his stage. Rakan, the battle dancer who uses the songs and rhythms of people to fight and move before they do. And Sona’s niche, what was unique about her, grew smaller and smaller.

Finally, we had something that felt unique about Sona.

Gameplay & Design: 

Sona as a champion has existed a very long time... And is the aura and music champion. Her q does some damage, her w shields and heals ( and reduces damage with her passive ), and her e speeds people up ( and slows with her passive ), while her r is a rectangular ult wave - thinner than Nami’s, but still relatively wide. The kit as a whole is pretty simple, but it has a history.

Sona players are... innovators. They like to do things like buy Kirchei’s shard because it’s most efficient, or take Sona mid, top, jungle, and adc. And over the last two years, Sona has received nerf after nerf after nerf saying, “No, stay in the support role”. You can still pull off certain lanes, but it’s extremely difficult because her aura abilities give you mana back if you tag an ally... making them difficult to use in a solo lane, or to roam alone.

Also, as one of the older crew of champions ( pre Jinx when Riot started using other body types for women ), her figure is... well, she’s got an hourglass figure, and her dress does not hide her breasts much at all. And it’d been like this for ages and ages, which meant that in League’s toxic culture, being a Sona one-trick led to a variety of hateful comments which I won’t repeat here.

Sona has a history of being treated like either an overpowered support or a terrible one, in part because she lacks any form of CC before 6 ( barring her e chord passive ).

So if you’re a Sona enthusiast, a big part of you wants Sona to have agency and not just be a pretty face damsel in distress. Even I, who have a second blog where I write Sona as an extremely soft character, don’t have her be a damsel in that interpretation of her. This is made worse by the community and a lot of art that ships her with men who treat her badly, along with an endless slew of adult images that degrade her, and often make fun of her disability - that she can’t speak. It’s sad and it’s degrading. And even within the last few years, she was written in a story in the Odyssey skin line...  as a prize for Kayn to take. That is an official Riot story which essentially treated her like a prize to capture for Kayn’s own goals - not as a person, but as a carrier of a key, as an object, and she lacked agency. Thankfully over the last few years, Riot has started giving women more agency, but... it’s been a problem for a long time.

Recently, along with the lore rework, we got Sona in a skin that makes her look and feel like a badass - PsyOps, her legendary skin. She breaks free of her confines and rages against those in her way in a very Syndra-like fashion, uncaged. And this was very cool.

And now, we have Sona where she is now.

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Seraphine as a champion has recently been revealed, along with her abilities and lore.

Narrative & Niche: 

Seraphine’s lore is essentially this.

She, born of Zaunite parents, went up to Piltover. She was able to hear the souls and songs of people ( magical empath ) and hoped to unite those around her with her music. Then, she went down to Zaun, a city full of impoverished and disenfranchised peoples, to try and do the same thing.

In other words, “This champion uses music as a means of bringing people together. She aims to aid the disenfranchised.” There is nuance there, and it’s not the exact same as Sona, but the similarity is striking.

Furthermore, several key points in her lore are things that Sona writers have already imagined for themselves. A hypersensitivity to others, for example. Having such a strong sense of hearing that she can hear things others can’t. Sona is known to be able to essentially echolocate ( or at least, she had been known to do so in her older lore ). 

I will admit that the idea of ‘hypersensitive hearing or empathy’ is not the sole domain of Sona writers. Athena Cykes of Ace Attorney has a similar problem ( as revealed in her backstory ). And similarly, she wore a special device to help her filter that out. It’s not a completely unique idea, but again - the problem is striking. Sona, a highly sensitive and empathetic person, was often interpreted to be too sensitive to others. And now it’s on Seraphine, in her lore.

Seraphine’s whole lore is that she’s essentially an extremely popular and famous musician who brings people together with music... and that’s what Sona was.

She was all those things.

So to some people ( myself included ) it feels as though Riot has reworked Sona’s lore so they can give some of the overlap to Seraphine. Empathy / soul-seeing ( a Morgana, Kayle, Neeko, and Sona special... ) and the whole music thing...

And this is leading people to say, repeatedly, “This is just Sona 2.0.”

For Sona enthusiasts who have been waiting for Sona to get content or lore for years and years, this feels like a slap in the face.

Gameplay & Design:

Seraphine’s abilities are as follows.

When she uses 3 abilities, her next ability is empowered with additional effects ( essentially repeating ). Her q does damage ( based on missing health ) and is a skillshot, her w shields and speeds up people ( and heals herself if she’s already shielded ), and her e slows people ( and roots if they’re already slowed ), while her R is a rectangular ult that charms those hit and makes them walk towards her briefly.

That’s really similar to Sona.

When Sona uses 3 abilities, her next auto-attack is empowered with additional effects. Her q does damage. Her w shields and heals people ( and reduces damage output from an enemy if her passive is up). And her e speeds allies up ( and slows an enemy if her passive is up ). And her R is a rectangular ult that stuns those hit and makes them dance in place.

The similarity is striking. Seraphine does lack the ability to heal allies ( on first glance, I may have misread ), but she looks extremely similar to Sona... which is a frustration.

This year, we got Yone, Yasuo’s brother. And the reasoning behind this, when most other champions are written to give unique inputs/outputs, is that this is an alternative choice for Yasuo players when Yasuo is banned and will improve game health.

However, I suspect the same logic does not hold for Sona and Seraphine. Sona is in a class of enchanters, where several champions can do things similar to what she does already ( with some differences, of course! ). If you can’t play Sona, you can play Karma, you can play Taric, etc - not the same, but similar. It’s my suspicion that with the introduction of Seraphine, we will instead have the problem of Akali/Diana several years ago - these champions are so similar that whichever one is stronger will be played while the other one will be ignored completely.

Furthermore, Seraphine got a lot of attention. A lot of attention. She has a fake twitter account. 

And she is releasing with two skins, one of which is an ultimate. Release. For Sona players who only just got their legendary ( with the understanding that DJ Sona exists ), this feels like a slap in the face. It’s easy to feel overshadowed, and as much of the community is saying right now, this is ‘Sona 2.0′

Now some people are saying, ‘maybe Sona gets reworked’, but that will not be a great answer. If you like playing Sona’s current playstyle, swapping to Seraphine because Riot changed Sona completely will be alienating, and only exacerbate the feeling that Seraphine is replacing and overshadowing Sona.

But it gets a little worse than that too. Seraphine is designed for mid/support, to be played in both lanes. However, Sona enthusiasts have received nerf after nerf to Sona in other lanes, which only makes this hit that much harder. There’s a theory that Seraphine’s kit is essentially a scrapped Sona rework kit. If Seraphine’s build is the same as Sona’s, it will be... tragic. It will be disappointing...

And it’s already exhausting.

Neither Sona nor Seraphine enthusiasts are without the metaphorical gutpunch, and this is likely to divide the community even further. And heaven forbid you like both.

For Sona enthusiasts, this is a slap in the face. Our favorite champion being overshadowed and overhyped by another who gets so much on release, when we’ve longed for content for years is hurtful. 

For Seraphine enthusiasts, this is a punch in the gut, for seeing their champion essentially be treated like a clone of another is unkind. Any nuance or effort put into Seraphine will be drowned underneath ‘Sona 2.0′. And the overlap between both champions and their respective abilities and character traits will wear anyone out.

And that’s not fair to anyone.

( Disclaimer: I wasn’t able to stay 100% unbiased, but if you read all of that, thank you. )

#long post tw #ooc #crying elf lass #//you can reblog this if you want but don't come fight me about it

[iacon-stargazer]

THE POSITIVE & NEGATIVE: MUN & MUSE

fill out & repost ♥ this meme definitely favors canons more, but i hope oc’s still can make it somehow work with their own lore, and lil’ fandom of friends & mutuals. multimuses pick the muse you are the most invested in atm.

tagged by: stolen from @oneshallfall like.... months ago. im a slow gremlin hjksd. it's been in my drafts and i finally decided to finish the last few sections while working on clearing them out

tagging: steal it

MY MUSE IS.   canon / oc / au / canon-divergent / fandomless

is your character popular in the fandom?  YES / NO.

is your character considered hot™ in the fandom?  Well.../ NO / IDK. (i know optimus is but i don’t really... know about orion? i have seen a handful of fanartists who turn him into a very sexualized moe baby but i’m not sure about the fandom at large)

is your character considered strong in the fandom?  YES / NO / IDK.

are they underrated?  YES / NO. (lmao there’s like no fan content with him unless it’s with megatronus) 

were they relevant to the main story?  YES / NO.

were they relevant to the main character?  YES / NO / THEY’RE THE PROTAG.

are they widely known in their world?  YES / NO. (not yet.... lol)

how’s their reputation?  GOOD / BAD / NEUTRAL.

HOW STRICTLY DO YOU FOLLOW CANON?

This... this is a trick question in this goddamn mess of a continuity. That said, I try my absolute best to make my portrayal coherent with the TFP show... even if said show contradicts itself at times. I take inspiration from the earlier parts (the thirteen primes section) of the Covenant of Primus for his origin backstory, but ignore the rest of the Covenant since it makes absolutely no sense with his characterization in... literally anything else. I’ve peeked at Exodus and it utterly sucks, but I’ve picked up bits and pieces of concepts that originated there just from spending time in the fandom. Aside from that... I spend a ton of time thinking about how to weave everything together in a way that both makes sense and makes for a character development arc.

SELL YOUR MUSE! (aka try to list everything, which makes your muse interesting in your opinion to make them spicy for your mutuals.)

Orion is genuinely kind, thoughtful, and introspective, very loving of the world around him.

He’s also a more complex character than is initially obvious - despite mostly being good sweet pure baby nerd he’s still flawed, with many of those flaws being his strengths put into the wrong situation. His strong morals can lead to dogmatism, and he’s only slightly less likely to deliver lectures than Optimus. His determination to be kind and help everyone can come off as unintentionally patronizing at times; he has a very “well-intentioned semi-privileged middle class” perspective that he’s not always self-aware of. However, he’s also willing to look at himself critically and learn/adapt. 

Essentially, he has many of the same traits as Optimus... just more or less apparent and/or developed. He's less confident than he eventually becomes through his future experience with leadership, wanting to change the world for the better but sometimes struggling to ground his plans in reality—something that continues to apply, but with reduced intensity and frequency over time. Idealistic cinnamon roll will eventually develop some realism, though never really quite enough. His selflessness remains a strength for now, but we know that eventually it will dip into martyristic tendencies.

NOW THE OPPOSITE! (list everything why your muse could not be so interesting (even if you may not agree, what does the fandom perhaps think?)

He could be potentially ‘boring’ in some senses. he’s the polite, considerate ‘next door’ type, who has for most of his life has just lived as a very average middle caste nobody. He’s more laid-back than he eventually becomes as optimus, but where others might get into trouble and shenanigans he’s most likely to just express concern. And since I try to keep him at least mostly ic, even with non-serious posts, this can derail ‘fun’ stuff and I fear dissuade some interaction.

While I try my best to give him realistic flaws that work with his character, he could still be seen as a little too good. very kind, understanding, forgiving, patient, considerate... almost endlessly so. A lot of my “he’s so good and pure” interpretation comes from using his having been the thirteenth prime as backstory, where he was pretty much the epitome of that, but some might not like the “he was a literal deity in a past life” idea for its “super special chosen one protagonist” elements.

His responsiveness to his environment can also be a downside. He’s not the type to start things; he just reacts and responds, standing his ground and finding himself when things get crazy around him. without megatronus, he may have eventually attempted political campaigning, but it wouldn’t have gotten very far. He needs to have more intense characters or events around him for major plots to really go places. Without those nothing would ever happen besides slice of life fluff, because he’s content with that kind of life.

WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO RP YOUR MUSE?  

Honestly I just wanted to write op/ratch fhsjkdjsdh. But I also wanted to be able to interact with a variety of muses and so I chose Orion over Optimus because he’s not so emotionally closed off, which I figured would give more flexibility beyond the handful of characters op would reasonably have close personal and/or plot-important relationships with. Also, I can relate to him on a thought-process level which lets me get into his head easily, which additionally made him an appealing choice for my first real rp muse.

WHAT KEEPS YOUR INSPIRATION GOING?  

I just love him so much, especially with the layers of his character I've built up around him. I don't always have inspiration to write or rp, but I think about him a lot. When I do find motivation to write, it's generally out of wanting to continue to work on developing him and just having a chance to express his characterization.

SOME MORE PERSONAL QUESTIONS FOR THE MUN.

do you think you give your character justice?  YES / NO.

do you frequently write headcanons?  YES / NO.

do you sometimes write drabbles? YES / NO.  (i should do it more...)

do you think a lot about your muse during the day? YES / NO.

are you confident in your portrayal?   YES / NO. (at least most days fhsdhfskj)

are you confident in your writing?  YES / NO. (it waxes and wanes. I know I'm a good writer but I could still be better...)

are you a sensitive person?  YES / NO.

DO YOU ACCEPT CRITICISM WELL ABOUT YOUR PORTRAYAL?

I’ll be honest; I’ve never gotten criticism. I haven’t been here very long in comparison to some and I’ve never been that popular, so I figure I’m pretty easy to just ignore. I guess how I would feel about it would depend on what it was and how it was delivered, though I like to think I would be reasonable regardless

DO YOU LIKE QUESTIONS, WHICH HELP YOU EXPLORE YOUR CHARACTER?  

yes? yes absolutely?

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES TO A HEADCANON OF YOURS, DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY?  

I would be curious to hear their reasoning, but I think enough about how everything fits together that chances are I would agree to disagree

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOUR PORTRAYAL, HOW WOULD YOU TAKE IT?

Depends on if their disagreement makes sense. Maybe I’ll give back my own reasoning for why I characterize the way I do. Maybe I’ll just agree to disagree, if their view is just totally different from mine. If they have valid points I’ll probably overthink it and spiral into self doubt. In all cases I’ll spill my thoughts to friends on discord.

IF SOMEONE REALLY HATES YOUR CHARACTER, HOW DO YOU TAKE IT?

......Orion in general or? ... fhsjkdhf...... Well if it was mine specifically that might hurt lol. But at the same time.... I doubt i’d agree with their takes either so... fair enough.

ARE YOU OKAY WITH PEOPLE POINTING OUT YOUR GRAMMATICAL ERRORS?  

Sure. I’m good at grammar so if something glaring is there it’s probably a typo I missed and I’ll be grateful for the chance to edit it out before more people see it lol

DO YOU THINK YOU ARE EASY GOING AS A MUN?  

Yeah. I’m pretty quiet most of the time because I just don’t have energy to talk to a lot of people, and I never want to get caught in drama. I honestly wouldn’t know what to do in a situation like that. I tend to avoid conflict, I’m quick to apologize, and polite with anyone I don’t know very well.

#;the art student behind the muse {ooc} #;as for myself... {tag game}

[galaxy98]

Trial of the Mariner

AKA SkekSa’s redemption AU

Well, here it is guys. This is something that’s been on the back of my mind for some time now. As you may have guess, I like SkekSa as a character. When you look at each Skeksis in the franchise, she tends to stand out from the rest of them. Now I haven’t read the JM Lee novels, but thanks to the help of others in the fandom, I was able to get good idea of what happened to her in the book. In Flames, she ended up getting stuck in the tree due to the actions she committed in Sog. When I heard about this, I thought to myself, “Wait, that’s it?”, because it apparently happened within of the middle of the story. Given the time frame of the book being released around the premiere of the Netflix show, Age Of Resistance, I imagined that they have to wrap it up quickly. Now why am I telling you all this? Well it turns out that the first season almost used up the key elements that were from the books: death of the Archer/Hunter, Battle of Stonewood, uniting of the 7 clans, etc. As of now, the Mariner recently appeared in AOR #9 as a part Mayrin’s comic arc and since we don’t have any news regarding season 2, I wonder if they’re gonna do something different for SkekSa’s arc in the show. Case in point, extending her arc post-tree. A character like her has the potential for a great anti-villain to hero story. So I decided to take this opportunity to let creative juices flow and create a redemption AU for her.

Just a quick note, artists and fanfic writers are welcome to make fan content off this idea. In fact, it’s encouraged. You’re even free to add to this post. Personally, I would love to see @darkskek​ ‘s interpretation of this. With all of that out of the way, here are the key points for Trial of the Mariner.

SkekGra and UrGoh woke up one night from a vision that was bothering them. They couldn’t make out what it was, but it prompted them to go to the tree in Sog. However, they had to go now when it was still dark since they don’t want to be seen, at least not yet. When they arrive to the tree, SkekGra realised what the vision was trying to tell him. Someone is stuck in there and they need to get her out before it’s too late. With the help of Lore, they managed to cut open the tree only to find a Skeksis. A Skeksis that the Heretic had never seen in a long time. This leaves him in such a shock, his screaming almost woke up the Drenchen. Because of this, they needed to leave fast and take her back to the Circle of the Suns. The Heretic has so many questions to ask her when she recovers.

Many trine ago, SkekGra used to be friends with the Mariner. This happened around the time of his conquering days. Even though she never actively participated in his conquests, SkekGra always told stories to her when he came back to the castle. These stories intrigued her not because of the bloodshed, but because of the lands that were discovered. SkekSa always wanted check them out but couldn’t due to the obligations she has to the court. Oddly enough, SkekSa left around the time when the visions were starting to bother the Heretic. At that point, SkekGra would never see her again. Even when the Mariner goes back for some occasions, she seems to be the only one to notice that he was gone. Nobody in the court would give her an answer. In fact, they wouldn’t even acknowledge his absence. For so long, she had to live ignorance about his disappearance and only came to the conclusion that his conquering antics are what got him killed. Until now.

When the Mariner woke up, she’s shocked to find herself in a different place. She thought she was about to die. She wanted to die. And having to live after everything she’s done to herself and the Gelfling, there was no reason to keep going. The Heretic on the other hand, was excited to see that she was okay. So excited, he was hurting SkekSa by his hugging. SkekSa could never figure out who he was until she took a closer look at his face. She too had many questions. Feeling weak and depressed, she explained to him about the things she was doing when she left the castle. Even the events that led to the Sog incident. SkekGra felt conflicted. All of this could’ve been prevented if they both communicated with each other. It even made him doubt his chances of revealing himself to the Gelfling. To SkekSa, whatever happened to SkekGra couldn’t be worse than what she went through. However, when he told SkekSa his story, her heart sank. How many lies were kept from her for all this trine and how many can she take before it overwhelms her? She wanted leave after that, but she couldn’t because of her injuries. This causes her to have an emotional breakdown. By this point, she had to make the best of her situation.

At this point, SkekSa’s emotional well being is already at an all time low.

While politics play a part on why she left the castle, there were other reasons why never wanted to go back to Thra. SkekSa saw the castle as her “prison.” She always felt unease when she had to be there for political purposes. Another reason is more to do with SkekSo himself. She’s one of the very few to ever get close him and she knows what kind of Skeksis he is. SkekSo will stop at nothing to get what he wants. Next reason is more of a personal one and it’s more to due with the fact that she felt like she’ll never have a future in Thra. The last reason why she left is, coincidentally, she too had a vision. But it wasn’t the same vision that the Heretic had. In SkekSa’s vision, she sees nothing but the ocean and the waves that go back and forth across the sand. Whatever the vision was trying to tell her, she knew that it was time to leave. What’s odd is that the vision return to her when she was in the tree, except the difference is that the ocean was still and there were no waves to be seen. It felt very ominous as if the vision she previously saw was a nothing more than a facade. When she told SkekGra about this, it left him and UrGoh with only one option. They, along with Rek’yr, have to go to the Wellspring to consult with an elder Shaman. 

Right now, this is only part 1 of the AU. As I said back at the top, feel free to add to this by reblogging the post. I would love to see what you guys bring to the table as I work on part 2.

Stay tune everyone.

#the dark crystal #the dark crytsal: age of resistance #tdc:aor #skeksa

[littlesailorinthesun]

fact or fiction #1

hello! I have seen a lot of discussion on various love nikki theories recently and I decided to rate them based on how plausible I personally think they are, as well as evaluating the evidence we currently have for them.

however keep in mind that I’m sort of the type of person who likes to get a feel for author’s intention (it helps when trying to read these botched translations). I still try to be as unbiased as possible though. still, the information below is my personal opinions!

Queen Nanari is the Lord / Shadow

★★★★☆ - easiest explanation

This was already commonly believed before Black White Puzzle ("tree of life lore") arrived on the English server, but when I read it through properly for the first time, my only thought was "wow, this is very blatant" - especially in the last few stages. I felt pretty confident that that was what the writers intended to get across. However, I was surprised to find that that was not a universal takeaway. 

For me, the crucial piece of evidence is that Neva has the same relationship with Nanari and with the Lord. She is blindingly loyal to them. She serves them both at the same time. She has sworn her life to both of them. How can she swear her life to both of them and serve them both at the same time with apparently no conflicting loyalties from either? Worth also mentioning the framing: Neva does not think of Nanari specifically during the whole event. "Nanari" is only mentioned during the event when you see the part from Royce's own memories.

Essentially this is something where I believe nearly every piece matches up, even beyond this. Weird foreshadowing about Nanari, dates and times and knowledge... the Kindred blood is basically the only thing about the Lord that does not link them to Nanari. I also need more explanation on the motivation here, but considering how many characters don't even canonically have motivations for things they do (Reid, I'm looking at you) this also isn't make or break. 

The Ancient Pavilion Designer is Xiao Zong

★★★★☆ +0.5 - easiest explanation

Like the one with Nanari, the evidence for this one lies largely in the relationship with another person: King Sayet. For a very long time in the story, it was indicated that the Ancient Pavilion Designer (APD) studied together with Sayet. Volume 2 Chapter 4, which came right before Nine-Night Tales chronologically, was later released, which named APD as Sayet's senior and described him as being cold and aloof. Then, Nine-Night Tales lore was released and - Xiao Zong is described as Sayet's senior, and the fandom collectively looked back and realized that XZ and APD stories lined up in more ways than one. 

Except the big thing: The Ancient Pavilion Designer died years ago.

Or did he?

Well, according to the Miraland Civilization Files book timeline (lore book), he did. But the book was apparently written by the curators of the Ark (time-and-dimension-traveling Shining Nikki construct thing), meaning even they may not have known (or bothered to investigate) the truth. (Meta reason: to keep us guessing). I actually consider the book to be more conclusive evidence, because it reveals something that wasn't stated in the main story - something they went out of their way to change:

In Fu Su's dreamweaver, Sayet dies and APD dies shortly after. You would normally assume this to happen in 672, since it doesn't mention how much time has passed. But the book went out of its way to name the year as 673 instead, which lines up exactly with when Xiao Zong decided to leave the Flower Field (that place where the Ancient Pavilion is) and run off with Mr. Interesting Zhu Yuxian.

So, the situations line up, but the reason I take half a point off this one are because of the huge leaps in logic you have to make to take these pieces and figure that Fu Su’s wise old mentor faked his death and is actually this pretty ruthless guy who literally murders people in cold blood. Still, this gets many points because it seems obvious this is what the writers are trying to say. 

Evelyn (Flickering Pistill) is the Elf Queen (Chloris & Cesare's Mother)

★★★☆☆ - could go either way

Truly one of the few theories where I genuinely have no idea what the writers are intending.

A little bit of background: Due to the prevalent lore chart that spread around many eons ago, it was stated that Evelyn (Flickering Pistill) = Evelyn (Wind's Whisper) = Chloris's Mother. Well... much time has passed and though whether FP and WW are the same character seems to just be up to interpretation (and translation) as it's doubtful that they will release anything else that references Wind's Whisper, new lore about both the Elf Queen and Evelyn is still being released, which carefully does not refer to them as the same person.

Most people don't really think there is a difference, but I encourage you to read lore without conflating the two if you're interested in the theory. Hahaha, just kidding I wouldn't wish reading elfkindred lore on anyone. I may make a post later about how much of it retcons itself, both in terms of events and in characters, because it’s been kicking my ass recently.

Noah is the Fantasy Envoy

★★☆☆☆ - it's not impossible but doubtful

I really used to think this one at a point in time. The points in favor of this one include: Concern over Fantasy Envoy's identity (Nikki and Momo seem to recognize him), Noah being a trickster/master of illusions, similar personalities, and sprites drawn using a similar looking face. They also both spent some time in Pigeon Forest, as well as in Lilith (Envoy because he's a traveller, Noah because I guess he was doing things for Cesare). 

However, the fact that Nikki and Momo seem to recognize him isn't actually evidence he is Noah (Bobo would recognize him, which she doesn't). It's actually an easter egg to Nikki 2 - where incidentally one of their friends Polo the detective dressed up as the a mysterious guy called the Fantasy Envoy, who is a guy on Earth too I suppose? 

Anyways, even though this one isn't total nonsense, I don't think this is the route they're going. Noah is an actual character and Envoy is... more and more just an eccentric weirdo. 

===

This is all I have energy to write tonight but I definitely intend to do more in the future. Other ones I have planned include Nikki as Hostess L, Fu Su’s bloodline, and some stuff that’s debunked that I just wanted to mention. If you want me to do any others, send me an ask and I will do my best!

#love nikki #love nikki lore #love nikki theories

[filthyjanuary]

I've never seen an episode of supernatural all I see is what's on your blog and each and every day I become more confused about the writing of the show and why people enjoy it :l

okay well first off i am SO sorry you have to see me like this jknbuvgyuhjn i cannot believe im spnblogging in 2020 like im 15 again but things happen i guess.

second of all, the thing to know about supernatural is.... i think, for general audiences, it is an average-to-good show. it's not Bad. It's not Beloved and/or Acclaimed. objectively, i think is also probably the most balanced view of the show and is also probably what the cw and/or people who worked on the show see it as. it lasted 15 years because it consistently pulled in reliable numbers for the cw and grabbed a lot of demographics. like i know the tumblr bubble skews perceptions but, people of all ages, genders, sexualities watched and enjoyed supernatural, yes even to the very end. most people are also not looking at supernatural with the hyperfocused lens that tumblr is and that’s like... okay. those fans aren’t any less relevant or important. if only tumblr was watching supernatural, i promise it would’ve been cancelled like at least 7 years ago.

the spn *fandom* is interesting because like one, no one is watching the same fucking show. like we all watched the same episodes but like this fandom cant even agree on like...basic facets of canon, let alone digging into complex meta. people’s views of characters actions and motivations skew wildly. things one side of the fandom considers nearly canon are like essentially viewed as ooc on other sides of the fandom. you love and hate all the characters and everyone is always about to start swinging on everyone else. you have to simultaneously juggle the ideas that the writers — and for the record this show has had four showrunners and like a billion individual writers who all see and interpret it slightly differently — are brilliant and the writers legitimately are both stupid and bad at their jobs. you have to turn your brain off in terms of continuity because they retcon their own lore every 15 seconds. this isn’t even getting into the ship wars, the boundary crossing, the weird invasiveness , etc., etc., etc. supernatural’s writing is sometimes incredible, sometimes terrible, but generally pretty average, but it had a charm (ESPECIALLY IN SEASONS 1-3) that reeled you in, even if you hated the genre.

when a show is on this long, i think the fans (rightly so) will look back and dig in and get nitpicky on things they wish were covered with more care. things that the show obviously did not decide to write with the intention of addressing/grappling with later on. case in point: dean’s drinking habits. with the exception of like... season 7 where they DO address it, dean drinks a lot as a feature of his character with little to no consequence. he doesn’t get drunk. he’s always driving. it might as well be water. the writers don’t intend for that to be more than just a facet of what makes him a rough and tough action hero even though logically, he should be drunk all the time. even w/ interviews w/ the cast/crew, it’s clear the writers don’t think the fans will care and/or notice a lot of things. they do, because well, they’re invested. the fandom extrapolates because that’s what fandom does, but i really don’t think the writers connect those dots because dean’s drinking /isn’t/ a problem until they need it to be. because spn has gone on so long, it has more instances of things like this than other shows, and our cultural contexts have also evolved a lot along the way from 2005 to 2020. so again, there’s a lot to work with. i don’t really think that’s so much a reflection of the quality of the show than it is a reflection of how long it’s been on and the way society has changed since then. dean not knowing what myspace is is funny for two completely different reasons in 2005 and in 2020, for example.

my own personal opinion is, there’s a lot to enjoy about supernatural. seasons 1-5 are legitimately good tv. for all their flaws, they have a very clear aesthetic and tell a story that is well-structured and relatively coherent in terms of themes and continuity. they set up complex characters and relationships and everyone’s motivations make sense and that arc wraps on a tragic but ultimately narratively consistent and thus fulfilling point. of course, there’s stuff i personally like and dislike but separating my emotions from it, it’s very good. i think if anything, i would recommend anyone watch those five seasons and then decide whether they want to continue or not. if you don’t, you’ll end on a note that feels complete. it’s what i’m doing w/ my friend elaine, currently, actually. if she decides she wants to continue after 5, we’ll do that, but for now we’re just vibing in season 1. after that point, i think if you decide you care enough about the characters to push through wildly inconsistent writing, there’s stuff to enjoy in seasons 6-15, but the quality and particularly the consistency dips and this is also where the retconning really starts to...intensify. it’s also where the mythos of supernatural grows bigger than the show itself, which i think was always supernatural’s downfall. the crew started caring more about the whims of the fandom and frankly the fandom became more of the story than the show, and that’s how you get people piecing together what supernatural is based on out of context gifsets that skew perceptions wildly and get Supernatural Fandom™ which... frankly, in my opinion, changed fandom culture as a whole for the worse, like yes it’s a huge, powerful and often memeable behemoth but also... the way it changed creator-fan interactions is something we’re going to be unpacking for a long time. i think had the writers tuned out fandom wars and internet yelling and strived to tell a story that made sense and was well constructed to /them/, we wouldn’t be here and seasons 6-15 could’ve found a way to be as beloved as the first third of the show. i’m personally of the opinion that being a fan of something, for better or for worse, does not entitle you to part of it’s creative process. it doesn’t become a collaboration, and the door is always there if you get to the point where you want to leave. i think supernatural getting too caught up in its own fandom and balancing all these conflicting interests is ultimately what made the last 10 seasons, and particularly the back third of the show oftentimes flounder. the finale chaos, in my opinion, happened because they tried to please everyone by keeping too many things vague so people would have room to play in their own sandboxes and round out the story the way they wanted to see it and thus ultimately, a lot of things were left in the air and so for many people, the closure they were hoping for just wasn’t there.

i dont know how this became a long and scattered collection of thoughts but tldr, people enjoy supernatural because at the end of the day, it’s an enjoyable show and i think the more you stew in a fandom bubble, there’s more to get worked up about. which is fine. i like that fandom engages in complex conversations that the show won’t grapple with, but that’s not for everyone and i don’t think the fact that we have these conversations is necessarily an indictment of the show’s overall quality.

#asks #spn #long post #** #Anonymous #for the record #i liked the finale and i watched the show for 10 years of my life on and off because sam and dean winchester are two of the most interestin #interesting* characters and also have the most interesting dynamic i've ever see #seen*

[catsitta]

Your writing, especially in BotU, is just amazing! It's so poetic and flows so well! Do you have any tips for learning to write fiction? Also I've noticed in your fae focused and underworld fiction you mention so much in regards to legends and myths that reflect real ones, what kind of research do you do for this or do you already know of this/made it up?

You’re making me blush. Heh. 

Alright, this going to be a long one, I got wordy.

My writing style mostly reflects how I learned to self-edit, since most of my fics are unbeta’ed. How do I do my own editing? If I find a tricky passage, I will write it how it would be spoken. While not ‘proper’ in many ways, a language when spoken aloud can tell you whether or not a phrase will sound right to the mind’s internal ear. In fact, my main advice for anyone writing anything, essay to novel, is to read it out loud whenever possible. (It also helps find and reduce typos, but if you’re a speed reader like me, you may still skip over stuff because your brain is sometimes super helpful (not) and fixes/fills in words!) Doing this will also force you look at your writing and realize that, even if it is grammatically correct, sometimes phrases will sound/look off and need to be redone.

Another tip that works for me (and is one I learned while writing essays in highschool and really embraced in my college writing courses), is to put words to a page, perfect them later. Your best solution to finishing a fic is to literally write it, then go back later and revise. That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be structure. If you like knowing what will happen in every chapter before you start and write purposefully, that is great! But I would never get anything done if I made sure it was perfect while writing it or constantly backtracked to fix stuff before a chapter is done.

I will use my drabble fic, Handle with Care, as an example. I have 100 words dedicated to a chapter. A chapter should always inform the reader, bring up a question, answer a question or otherwise move the story and its characters forward, whether you are writing 100 words or 10,000.

.

[CHAPTER ONE:

“I, THE GREAT AND TERRIBLE EDGE, DEMAND TO KNOW WHO YOU ARE!”

Red rolled his eyelights as he dropped the last of the moving boxes onto the living room floor. Even trashed from the move in, this place looked better than the last. The walls had paint on them and the carpet was from this decade. Best go see what poor sap his little bro was yapping at before they got kicked out. Moving into the hallway outside the apartment, he spotted Edge and his victim. Red swallowed. It was a skeleton monster. Who looked up and winked at Red.]

(HwC had a basic framework written. As in, major keystones/plot points that needed reaching/bridging between.)

My process:

Q: What happened/needs to happen?

A: Red has just moved into a new apartment with his little brother, and while he is moving in, he meets his romantic interest for the fic. This romantic interest is his neighbor.

Q: Is the plot forwarded?

A: Yes. 

Q: Is new information introduced? Is it important? 

A: Red is moving in. Sans is his neighbor. Edge and Red are brothers and didn’t come from the best neighborhood previously. Edge is very outspoken. 

Q: Are there questions a reader may have? Or questions being answered?

A: Why/how did Red move? Why is his little brother living with him? Who is the neighbor? What is the neighbor’s purpose relating to the MC? How old is Edge? How old is Red?

Q: Does it make the Reader think or feel? What do I want my Reader to feel?

A: While not a very emotion impacting chapter in itself, it is supposed to be a cute bit of family fluff that hints at both a future romance as well as possible conflict arising from the reasons why Red and Edge moved.

.

I highly encourage people to try writing a 100 word drabble fic. Whether you are an experienced writer that writes long, detailed chapters on the regular, or someone who is just starting out and is finding it hard to find the time to commit to a long fic. 100 words is challenging in that you have to use every word effectively, but I’ve personally found it relaxing and even beneficial to me as a writer. After all, if I am having a bad day and nothing is going write and words don’t make sense? Well, I only need to write 100 and then try again tomorrow. It’s good for breaking an obsessive, perfectionistic cycle where you may be impeeding your own progress by simply never finishing. 

My last tip is to simply read.

Read anything and everything. You like romance and want to write romance? Read a bunch of it. Professional novels, fanfiction, poems, otome games, comics, manga...All of it. But also don’t be afraid to branch out. Every genera has different strengths. I LOVE fantasy. Traditional high fantasy with dragons and elves and knights and mages and great, cliche plots about good toppling the forces of evil. LOVE IT. And what is fantasy’s strength? World building. What is romance’s? Relationships and dialogue. The more you read, the more you subconciously pick up on diction and the tropes/feel of a genera. The most common comment I have recieved while pursuing a degree, was that I write like I read a lot. That I like to read. And it really stuck with me. Because it is rather true. You can usually tell the difference in the writing of someone who only reads because they must (or only the classics you are assigned in classes) and someone who reads for the love of reading. So be someone who writes like they love to read. Like they love language. 

.

Now that I have rambled!

To answer your second question, my more myth based fics are always a hybrid of real mythology and stuff I’ve made up that is more cohesive with the world I’m writing about. If I am writing Undertale fanfiction, I want it to feel like Undertale fanfiction. I want to maintain certain themes and ideas, even if they don’t align with mythology. 

Greek Mythology is also a lot more fixed in places than faerie lore, and thus it needs more research to stay true. While in turn, you can be wildly inventive with faerie lore. Thus with my fae fics, I draw from a wide variety of sources, mostly from memory, be it from books I have read, games I have played, or stories I have been told. (It is often easier to ‘write what you know’ after all. If you read Norse Mythology for fun, then writing a fic retelling a norse myth may be more fun for you as a writer than writing a scifi drama you have to pour tons of hours of research into.)

As a quick example:

Bride of the Underworld’s basic premise is the Abduction of Persephone myth. It is very popular in media and it has endless interpretations. Turning the Underground into the Underworld was a natural step. But I never feel the need to 100% follow the mythology to the tee. This is an Undertale fanfiction after all! So, the math lays out like this. If Frisk is Persephone and Persephone’s mother is Demeter, then Frisk’s mother should be Toriel. Toriel’s husband is Asgore, the King of Monsters, who would be a natural choice for King of Gods, and is thus, a placeholder for Zeus. But Demeter isn’t married to Zeus, one could say. No, but he is married to Hera and Toriel can also fill that roll. In the game, they are estranged, which works perfectly, in that Toriel could have/raise Frisk in private, and become the sheltered maiden that Persephone/Kore was in mythos. (Now play apples-to-apples with a wonderful AU co-creator for 50k+ words and you have a fic.)

#undertale #textpost #handle with care #bride of the underworld #writing #writing style #this is me rambling on about personal writing things if that is your jam

[rebelsofshield]

Star Wars Poe Dameron: Free Fall- Review

Star Wars Poe Dameron: Free Fall makes the best of a bad storytelling decision and turns in a refreshingly entertaining, if not entirely successful, young adult novel.

(Review contains minor spoilers)

It’s been several years since Poe’s mother, Shara Bey, passed. Now a young man, the son of two rebellion heroes finds himself yearning for his place in the world and seeking out adventure and high adrenaline experiences. Much to the chagrin of his father, Kes Dameron, Poe has become a bit of a trouble maker on the forest moon of Yavin IV often coming into conflict with local law enforcement. When Poe is presented with a new life in the form of the Spice Runners of Kijimi, he jumps at the chance for an escape from the doldrums of his current life. Along with his new friend Zorii, Poe launches himself full on into a life of crime and in the process sets off the unraveling of a galactic conspiracy.

I think it’s fair to say that the revelations of Poe Dameron’s past in The Rise of Skywalker were an almost universally disliked storytelling decision. Lore hounds were frustrated by the washing away of years’ worth of shows, comics, and novels for a new, confusing backstory. Fans of the character were upset by both the seeming erasure of Poe’s hinted at queerness and also the deeply problematic decision to make the series’ first major Latino hero have a history in drug smuggling. There’s also just the added annoyance that the sequel trilogy’s smart mouthed and cocksure pilot was connected all the more to the specter of Han Solo. No matter how cute Babu Frik proved or how badass Kerri Russell’s Zorii Bliss appeared, almost no one walked out of Kijimi happy.

Alex Segura is saddled with unenviable task of cleaning up the mess. Star Wars Poe Dameron: Free Fall has to find a way to not only fit in this period of the titular character’s life with the existing timeline, but somehow navigate the storytelling minefield the plot twist gave. For what it’s worth, Segura does an admirable enough job with what is given and Free Fall ends up being an enjoyably twisty crime saga that finds joy and pathos despite the fraught nature of its source material.

Segura writes Poe as the sum of all of his parts. He’s a caring and empathetic individual who has little patience for injustice on any level. He also has a wild and restless side to him. Dealing with the grief of losing his mother and wanting to live up to the heroic adventures of both his parents, Poe has a proclivity to launching himself into situations that are over his head but also thinking on his feet for explosive results. It’s a faithful interpretation of the character even if the general feeling of wanderlust that Poe starts the novel with can’t help but feel like well-worn territory for Star Wars protagonists.

As for how Segura manages to tie this all together with the existing material? He more or less tries his best to connect Poe’s childhood to his spice running adventures and eventually setting himself up to join the New Republic at the end. If anything, it’s this final transitionary period that feels the most shortchanged. This is very much the story of Poe’s time with the criminals of Kijimi and isn’t very much interested in whatever connective tissue may come afterwards. It’s a tad frustrating as the novel feels like it ends rather quickly with many potential plot threads and character arcs left dangling.

The Spice Runners themselves are a complicated subject matter. As a veteran writer of crime fiction, Segura’s narrative of different jockeying factions, daring heists and escapes, and the cat and mouse game of galactic cops and robbers is a blast. There are twists a plenty and Segura’s action scenes aren’t afraid of diving into the dirty details of these unsavory individuals.

There’s a bit of confusion however about the Spice Runners themselves. While it’s been firmly established throughout Star Wars canon that spice is a type of drug, Free Fall more or less ignores this idea. The fact that Poe’s allies are part of a major drug smuggling ring is never once brought up. In a way, this avoids the problematic aspects raised by The Rise of Skywalker, but it also leaves a general amount of confusion on the part of the reader. For those unfamiliar with Star Wars canon, it’s not exactly clear what the Spice Runners do besides all manner of various galactic thievery and skullduggery. For the initiated, it just seems odd that Poe would be unaware of this aspect of the organization or that it would never come in conversation. Segura essentially was handed a lose-lose story concept and he opted for the least problematic route even if it would be damaging for the story in the process.

It’s lucky then that the Spice Runner narrative proves so entertaining. This is in no small part due to the presence of Zorrii. Segura makes Zorrii an intriguingly enigmatic young woman that has a past wrapped in secrets and a flexible morality. Her story, primarily told second hand through Poe, carries much of the conflict of the narrative and it is thoroughly compelling. In fact, one can’t help but wonder if Free Fall may have been better served by a story that centered on Zorrii in full and featured Poe as a prominent supporting character.

Above all, Free Fall is simply a fun read. It’s filled with small but compelling characters, a crime mystery that proves exciting and surprising, and snappy, witty prose that crackles along with energy. It’s one of the rare Star Wars books that succeeds despite of its source material and not because of it. It will never not be a shame that this was a novel that had to be saddled with the storytelling sins of The Rise of Skywalker, but Segura has made an enjoyable enough adventure out of the mess.

Score: B-

#Star Wars #Star Wars novels #Poe Dameron #Zorii Bliss #Alex Segura #Star Wars Po Dameron: Free Fall #Free Fall #review #reviews #The Rise of Skywalker

[huds-hub]

THE POSITIVE & NEGATIVE; MUN & MUSE - MEME

FILL OUT & REPOST ♥ This meme definitely favors canons more, but I hope OC’s still can make it somehow work with their own lore, and lil’ fandom of friends & mutuals. Multi-Muses pick the muse you are the most invested in atm.

Stolen from @mrfunnybone. Since this meme has a bias for canon muses, I’m tagging two of my favorite canon writers that I know didn’t fill this out yet: @soulcoerced and @spearslinger (I wonder if a fellow Undyne RPer has a different take on some of these questions? ^^;;). For everyone else, feel free to steal it and tag me if you do! I’m curious to see how OC muns answer some of these questions...

MY MUSE IS:   CANON / oc / au / canon-divergent / fandomless / complicated [[ The adult version of my muse is canon, but her teenage equivalent is not present anywhere in Undertale / Deltarune. So, uh… canon but kind of complicated I guess??? I like describing my muse as canon-wise. My Deltarune fishies are undoubtedly AUs at most, canon-divergent at least. ]]

[[ Mun’s note: I’m going to cheat on this. For the next 8 questions, I’ll answer for both Undyne as my teen muse AND regular adult canon Undertale Undyne. My thoughts on her counts as something, right? My muse is based on canon! ]]

Is your character popular in the fandom? YES / NO / IDK [[ Undyne’s character to the rest of the fandom is unpopular (compared to Sans, Chara, Gaster, etc…). It’s a shame, because her dialogue portraits alone would make great meme fodder. HOWEVER, among Undyne fans, I notice there’s an interest in depicting her early years because she’s one of the few cast members who’s had their childhood explicitly mentioned. ]]

Is your character considered hot™ in the fandom?  YES / NO / IDK [[ She’d better not be, because my muse is a  C H I L D. As far as I’ve seen, canon adult Undyne is depicted more often as a ‘badass’ than a ‘sexy fish.’ ]]

Is your character considered strong in the fandom?  YES / NO / IDK [[ Younger Undyne is definitely interpreted to be a determined, tough kid. Of course it’s the same for adult canon Undyne. It’s basically her most distinct character trait. ]]

Are they underrated?  YES / NO / IDK [[ Lordy, Undyne as a whole is entirely underrated by the fandom... ]]

Were they relevant for the main story?  YES / NO [[ OMG... you’re gonna get me started. I’m marking ‘no’ on this question because this is supposed to be about my aged-down muse. But Undyne... sweet violent Undyne’s very important to Undertale’s story! *fangirling START* Besides being the mid-point antagonist in the game, Undyne adds a layer of the theme of DETERMINATION to the game and how it can manifest in monsters if their bodies are strong enough to handle it. In an allegorical sense, she represents extremism in reaction to oppression and how that passion can take on the form of extreme love or extreme hatred depending on circumstance. So HELL YEAH she’s important to the main story of the game! AAAHILoveThisFish!! *fangirling END* ]]

Were they relevant for the main character? YES / NO / THEY’RE THE PROTAG. [[ Same as the previous answer for my teen Undyne: begrudgingly marking this with a ‘no’... It’s a YES for canon Undyne. In all routes, original game’s Undyne is the first character who is purposefully trying to kill the Player. Players can’t get the best ending without helping her hook up with Alphys and not incurring her wrath by killing any monster. In the worst ending, she’s one of the two antagonists that put up enough of a fight to make any player abort the Genocide Route. ]]

Are they widely known in their world? YES / NO [[ My muse WANTS to be significant to her world. In the original game, Undyne’s only mentioned by others in Snowdin and Waterfall (not counting Alphys in Hotland). She’s described as a “local hero” by Gerson. I get a sense she’s not exactly famous to the people in the entire Underground compared to, say, Mettaton. ]]

How’s their reputation?  GOOD / BAD / NEUTRAL [[ Oof. Pretty sure my teen fish annoys the residence of Waterfall for being a loud-mouthed little scamp. The only reason she’s not considered ‘bad’ is because it’s pent-up energy and misguidedness, not flat-out cruelty. In canon, it seems like the people who talk about Undyne do it in either a positive or neutral light. You have Monster Kid, Papyrus, and Onionsan singing her praises. The Royal Guard members respect her. Asgore thought of her well enough to have her lead his military. Uhh, for a neutral instance, I remember an NPC in Snowdin saying she’s “loud, rude, and beats up anybody who gets in her way” (I don’t remember the exact quote). To weigh this more on the side of my muse, I’ll mark this answer as ‘neutral.’ ]]

HOW STRICTLY DO YOU FOLLOW CANON?  [[ Since I have an aged-down character, canon is literally my END GOAL! I gave her a “starting point” on her journey to the determined, dedicated, and excitable warrior fish we all know and love from the game. I filled in the gaps from there, using parts of her past mentioned in the game to glue the headcanons together. Deciding what she was like when she was younger – What’s her family background? What aspects about her changed as she matures? What internal and external conflicts would she deal with as a teen? – THAT’S the non-canon part. My Deltarune AUs are… different. Canon is my end goal too, but the timelines are all wonky to fit the needs of wanting to interact with the Fun Gang. LOL ]]

SELL YOUR MUSE! AKA TRY TO LIST EVERYTHING, WHICH MAKES YOUR MUSE INTERESTING IN YOUR OPINION TO MAKE THEM SPICY FOR YOUR MUTUALS.   [[ This kid is spunky, loyal, compassionate of the plight of her people, and will see through anything she sets her mind to, despite life’s barriers. She’s got a lot of pent-up energy and is searching for what she can do with it to help her achieve her goal of setting Monsterkind free! ]]

NOW THE OPPOSITE, LIST EVERYTHING WHY YOUR MUSE COULD NOT BE SO INTERESTING (EVEN IF YOU MAY NOT AGREE, WHAT DOES THE FANDOM PERHAPS THINK?).  [[ The teen fishy has a streak of selfishness and short-sightedness. Being honest, Undyne would be a racial supremacist if she existed in real life. Big yikes. Also, she’s willingly being trained as a child soldier. Another big yikes right there. ]]

WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO RP YOUR MUSE?   [[ Ages ago, I RPed the adult version of Undyne, which resulted in a bunch of headcanons for her past. I had no desire to RP any of them after it ended. A year later, I commissioned an artist for a Gerson vs. teen Undyne piece. That single-handedly made me want to get back into RPing again. ]]

WHAT KEEPS YOUR INSPIRATION GOING?   [[ My fellow RPers wanting to interact with this silly fishy! When I first started, I expected my interest to peter out over the months. I didn’t expect many RPers wanting to interact with an aged-down character. But here I am, wanting to expand my headcanons further and making AUs so I’m not limited to canon. ^^ It’s all thanks to you guys!! ]]

SOME MORE PERSONAL QUESTIONS FOR THE MUN.

Give your mutuals some insight about the way you are in some matters, which could lead them to get more comfortable with you or perhaps not.

Do you think you give your character justice?  YES / NO / I SINCERELY HOPE I DO?

Do you frequently write headcanons?  YES / NO / SORT OF?     [[ I should do it more often TBH. But I find showing them via story-telling more fulfilling than just explicitly explaining them in posts. Plus, it gives me more leeway if I’m still playing around with an idea. ;) ]]

Do you sometimes write drabbles?  YES / NO  [[ I’m not counting the three pending drabbles until I finish them. ^^;; ]]

Do you think a lot about your Muse during the day? YES / NO [[ She finds a way to bother me! Usually in the form of sudden inspiration for how to respond to RPs. ]]

Are you confident in your portrayal? YES / NO / SORT OF? [[ Sometimes I wonder if I forgot some aspect about Undyne that’s in canon, or unintentionally exaggerating other less-important aspects of her other characteristics… ]]

Are you confident in your writing?  YES / NO / SORT OF? [[ Generally, yes. But I do have my days when I suffer from low self-confidence. ]]

Are you a sensitive person?  YES / NO. / SORT OF? [[ It depends on what’s meant by that. I’m sensitive to other people’s feelings, so I don’t intend to sound rude OOC, even if I’m expressing something negative about something I think the other did. If this is referring to being sensitive about events in RPs… my sensitivity is equivalent to that of being invested in any work of fiction. I know it’s not reality. I can pull away from the fictional world and it won’t bring down my real life. ]]

DO YOU ACCEPT CRITICISM WELL ABOUT YOUR PORTRAYAL?   [[ If it’s given in good faith and is constructive, sure. ]]

DO YOU LIKE QUESTIONS, WHICH HELP YOU EXPLORE YOUR CHARACTER?   [[ Hell yeah, give them to me! ]]

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES TO A HEADCANON OF YOURS, DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY?  [[ It depends if they want to tell me. I don’t mind either way. Personally, I like hearing other people’s interpretations! ]]

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOUR PORTRAYAL, HOW WOULD YOU TAKE IT?   [[ *shrug* It doesn’t matter as long as they don’t harass me. ]]

IF SOMEONE REALLY HATES YOUR CHARACTER, HOW DO YOU TAKE IT?   [[ I’d just ignore it. They don’t need to interact or follow me. If my muse really is a bother to them, they can block my account. ]]

ARE YOU OKAY WITH PEOPLE POINTING OUT YOUR GRAMMATICAL ERRORS?   [[ I hope my grammar’s good enough, or else my English degree studies went to waste! But yeah, sure. Fun fact: explaining grammar rules so people can avoid major errors in the future is more helpful than nit-picking insignificant errors without explanations. ]]

DO YOU THINK YOU ARE EASY GOING AS A MUN?   [[ As long as fellow RPers aren’t being rude OOC, don’t break any serious rules, or do something that I mention are personal triggers to me, I am easy-going! RPing is fun and it should stay that way for everybody involved! ]]

#mun monday #ooc #long post #yikes that took me a week to finish writing #but it was fun #this post was such a pain to format

[didanawisgi]

THE  EGYPTIAN  SUFI  DHU'L  NUN  AL-MISRI  by Kevin R. D. Shepherd

Source: https://www.independentphilosophy.net/Egyptian_Sufi_Dhu'l_Nun_al-Misri.html

Dhu'l Nun al-Misri was born at Akhmim in Upper Egypt and died at Giza, near Cairo. After his death he became a celebrated Sufi (of the ninth century CE). There are also reports of his link with Hermetic philosophy and alchemy, revived by early Muslims in a distinctive variant. Dhu'l Nun has been mentioned over the centuries in various formats and interpretations, including those of modern scholars.

Map centre: Akhmim (Panopolis) in Upper Egypt

CONTENTS  KEY

1.       The  Heretic  of  Akhmim

2.       A  Reader of  Hieroglyphs

3.       The  Hermetic  Alchemist

4.       Egyptology  Debate  about  the  Hieroglyphs

5.       The  Sufi  Gnostic

6.       Canonical  Annals  of  Sufism

7.       Theory  of  Christian  Neoplatonist  Influence

8.       R. A.  Nicholson's  Neoplatonist  Theory

9.       The  Palacios  Version

10.     Leaven  of  the  Pythagoreans

11.     Conclusion

         Annotations

1.  The  Heretic  of  Akhmim

The ninth century figure of Dhu'l Nun, known as al-Misri ("the Egyptian"), is attended by the typically fragmented reporting found in the annals of early Sufism. Other Islamic commentators are also involved in the record. The following remarks are an attempt to penetrate the complexities and obscurities, and to probe accompanying data.

The full name of the subject is Abu'l Faiz Thauban ibn Ibrahim al-Misri (ca. 791/796 - ca. 860 CE). He was born at Akhmim (Ikhmim) in Upper Egypt, an ancient town on the east bank of the Nile. In Pharaonic times, Akhmim was a cult centre of the fertility god Min. Local governors were buried in the extensive necropolis at Akhmim from the third millenium BC onwards. The New Kingdom Pharaoh Ramesses II is associated with the building of a large temple in the vicinity. Very little of the original architecture at Akhmim survives today, though the necropolis complex is a different matter, exhibiting hundreds of rock-cut tombs.

The Egyptian Muslim Dhu'l Nun travelled as an ascetic in Arabia, Palestine, and Syria. Different aspects of his career are reflected in the sources, a factor which has caused some uncertainty. Via intermediaries, he is reported to have transmitted hadith (traditions of the prophet) possessing the authority of Malik ibn Anas (d. 795) of Medina, founder of the Maliki law school which remained influential in Egypt and North Africa. Yet Dhu'l Nun was opposed by the Maliki jurists of Egypt prior to 829 CE, being condemned as a heretic for teaching on the subject of mystical experience. He appears to have survived the trial successfully.

At a later date, Dhu'l Nun was also in trouble with the Mutazilite theologians, then in power at Baghdad and elsewhere. That inquisitorial party forced him to depart from Egypt, apparently in 843 CE. He is reported to have visited Sufi circles in Baghdad, and subsequently to have preached in Samarra at the court of the Abbasid Caliph al-Mutawakkil (rgd 847-861). From 836, the new city of Samarra, north of Baghdad, was the military headquarters of the Caliphate for over thirty years, though Baghdad remained the cultural centre of Iraq.There are stories in the Sufi annals of Dhu'l Nun being imprisoned at Baghdad, though he was released on the orders of the Caliph and then returned to Egypt, where he spent his last years free of persecution.

One interpretation is that the imprisonment was caused by a friction with the Mutazili theological doctrine favoured by the Abbasid Caliphate at that period. (1) The Mutazili doctrine became harnessed to monarchical interests of the Abbasid dynasty, and was prone to a policy of inquisition (mihna) favoured by the Caliph, and assisted by wealthy Mutazili courtiers. That inquisition has been dated to 833-851 CE. See further Early Sufism in Iran, section 8, on this website. Many traditionists opposed the Mutazili system because of the doctrine that the Quran was created. The orthodox standpoint maintained the "uncreatedness" of the Quran.

Turning to other aspects of the record, there are apparently conflicting components in the profile of Dhu'l Nun as a Sufi gnostic and alchemist. He is credited with an insight into the meaning of the Egyptian hieroglyphs. "A number of poems and short treatises are attributed to him, but these are for the most part apocryphal." (2)

One modern commentary states:

"He was accused of being a philosopher and an alchemist, and the genuineness of his mystical state was sometimes doubted; Ibn an-Nadim's Fihrist (2: 862) in the tenth century mentions two of his works among alchemistic scriptures.... According to the tradition [of Sufism], Dhu'n Nun [Dhu'l Nun] formulated for the first time a theory of marifa, intuitive knowledge of God, or gnosis....Nicholson was inclined to accept Neoplatonic influences upon Dhu'n Nun. Since this mystic lived in Egypt, where Neoplatonic and hermetic traditions were in the air, and was regarded by some of his contemporaries as a 'philosopher,' he may well have been acquainted with some Neoplatonic ideas." (3)

There was a big difference between the outlook of a Maliki traditionist and a Neoplatonist/Hermetic philosopher. Views on this matter have been divided, due to the strong factor of early Islamic Sufism in the career of Dhu'l Nun al-Misri. One argument goes that the Sufi identity rules out the Hermetic associations. Other analysts have been more flexible in approach.

2.   A  Reader  of  Hieroglyphs

The traditional profile of Dhu'l Nun as a reader of hieroglyphs has generally been dismissed, though with some concessions to attendant factors. "Accounts of his ability to read hieroglyphs, though untenable, may function as a topos expressing his links with an Egyptian Hellenistic wisdom tradition." The quote is from Gerhard Bowering, "Du'l-Nun Mesri, Abu'l-Fayz Tawban" (1996), Encyclopaedia Iranica online. Professor Bowering here refers to both the Islamic historian Masudi and the traditionist (and annalist of Sufism) Abu Nuaym al-Isfahani (d. 1038) as mediators of the hieroglyphicist lore. An alternative view of the "reader of hieroglyphs" has emerged from Egyptology (see section 4 below).

Another factor is potentially significant. Some scholars have described the subject as a Nubian. In an earlier book, the present writer described Dhu'l Nun as "a Nubian or half-Nubian" (4)  According to Professor R. A. Nicholson, the subject "was a Copt or Nubian" (5)  His father Ibrahim was a Nubian slave who had converted to Islam, becoming a client (mawla) of the Quraysh tribe of Arabs closely associated with Mecca. In brief, Dhu'l Nun was one of the Egyptian mawali, an unprivileged native of the Nile valley who learnt Arabic culture and language under Quraysh auspices. He was probably black-skinned. His maternal line of descent is not clear.

Whatever the precise details of his parentage, his background milieu was substantially Coptic, and also featured architecture from the pre-Christian period. Akhmim had a history going back to the Pharaonic Old Kingdom era some three thousand years before. (6)  It is possible that Dhu'l Nun spoke Coptic in addition to Arabic. The Coptic language represented the final stage of Old Egyptian, being written in the Greek alphabet, to which were added seven characters from the late demotic script deriving from Pharaonic times. The Copts were descendants of the dynastic Egyptians and had long since become converts to Christianity. They were tolerated by Islam as "people of a Book."

Thus, the Akhmim milieu of Dhu'l Nun was more complex than might appear. Attendant speculations about Neoplatonism require due clarification. The Cambridge scholar Edward Glanville Browne was rather enthusiastic in that direction (at the same time admitting ignorance of Sassanian undercurrents). Professor Browne favoured Neoplatonism as the strongest influence upon Sufism, and commented that both Plotinus and Porphyry are mentioned in the Fihrist (7) of Al-Nadim. (8)

Browne's pupil Reynold Alleyne Nicholson (1868-1945) adopted the "Neoplatonist theory," and controversially asserted that "the immediate source of the sufi theosophy is to be sought in Greek and Syrian speculation." The clarification followed that he here meant Iraq, Syria, and Egypt, territories which are more open to such an interpretation, though deductions of this type have been considered misleading. Nicholson made an improvement over certain other orientalists in specifying the Sabaean "heathens" of Harran rather than the Christian Neoplatonists. Though Nicholson clearly favoured Hellenism, he conceded that the "Greek" influence did not answer everything. "Sufism has always been thoroughly eclectic," he observed, "absorbing and transmuting whatever 'broken lights' fell across its path, and consequently it gained adherents amongst men of the most opposite views." (9)

Conventional Sufi sources tend to depict Dhu'l Nun as a pious Muslim and a Sufi gnostic. A complement is afforded by the report of the historian Masudi (d. 957), the "Herodotus of the Arabs." Born in Baghdad, Masudi travelled for many years before settling in Egypt at Fustat (Old Cairo). His extensive Muruj al-Dhahab provides the first extant historical account of Dhu'l Nun, deriving information from the inhabitants of Akhmim during a visit made by the historian to this township. Masudi wrote:

"Dhu'l Nun al-Misri al-Akhmimi, the ascetic, was a philosopher who pursued a course of his own in religion. He was one of those who elucidate the history of these temple-ruins (barabi). He roamed among them [the temples] and examined a great quantity of figures and inscriptions." (10)

Masudi offered a version of some inscriptions which Dhu'l Nun claimed to have deciphered. This report confirms the early fame of the subject as a "hieroglyphicist." Modern scholars are inclined to be incredulous of ninth century archaeology, though there is no need to doubt that Dhu'l Nun was interested in the meaning of the ruins that were so visible in his environment. His "deciphering" would have been reported in accordance with local memory, which is not always the best guide at thirdhand. The subject was apparently not content with the conventional Arab disdain for the ancient idol-worshippers. It is evident that the inscriptions on ancient monuments were believed by "Hermetic" enthusiasts to be an index to the sciences of antiquity.

Egyptian hieroglyphs

The theme of barabi (Egyptian tombs and temples) probably reflects a form of hearsay of the kind which infiltrated to the Caliph al-Mamun (rgd 813-833). Circa 820 that Abbasid ruler of Iraq assembled a large group of engineers and stonemasons for the purpose of forcing an entry into the Great Pyramid at Giza. The cupidity of the Caliph had evidently been aroused by rumours of buried treasure, though objects of learning were also rumoured to be concealed within this gigantic edifice. Al-Mamun genuinely patronised learning, and he perhaps wished to gaze upon the fabulous maps of celestial spheres said to exist in a secret chamber. Though his danger men were able to force their way into the "King's Chamber," the monarch was evidently disappointed with the result. Dhu'l Nun was perhaps thirty years old at that time, and doubtless heard of the event.

Archaeologists have viewed al-Mamun as commencing the habit of pillaging the Pyramids. Ancient monuments became a source for quarried stone, and the Giza Pyramids eventually lost their protective casing of limestone blocks, after an earthquake loosened the blocks. Those architectural components at Giza were appropriated by subsequent regimes and reused to construct the palaces of Mamluk and Ottoman Cairo. However, that was far in the future in the time of Dhu'l Nun, and he appears to have been genuinely concerned to understand the meaning of the resplendent architectural survivals visible along the banks of the Nile. The Pharaohs and their religion had blurred in the Coptic memory since the fifth century CE.

The Arabic word barba (plural barabi) was applied not merely to ancient tombs, but to temples and ancient monuments of Egypt. That term was apparently a transcription of the Coptic word p'erpe (temple). Arabic writers give various explanations of the function of barabi. The craftsmanship of the monuments was much admired. One explanation was that the barabi had been built in order to reproduce or display techniques of the ancient crafts. The tenth century Fihrist of Al-Nadim implies that the barabi were made for the practice of alchemy.

The ubiqitous hieroglyphs were believed to hold the key to ancient sciences, which the Fihrist associates with Hermes; a legend developed that Hermes had become the king of Egypt. Hermes Trismegistus was a complex figure in Greek texts, being identified with revelation and initiatory significances. Some modern commentators have dwelt on parallels with the Egyptian god Thoth, patron of learning and lord of wisdom, an association deriving from the era when the Egyptian priesthood were still in existence (until the fourth century CE), prior to the ban on all pagan cults by the Emperor Theodosius.

Akhmim, the birthplace of Dhu'l Nun, had the Egyptian name of Khent-min (or Ipu). The Greeks identified the ithyphallic god Min with Pan, and this was the reason why Greek settlers applied the name of Panopolis to the ancient town. The early Coptic Christians subsequently employed the name of Khmin (from which Akhmim apparently derived). During the Christian Coptic era, a number of monasteries appeared in the area, and the mood was then strongly against the pagan monuments, which were subject to destruction. The early Muslims were far less iconoclastic, and the literati identified such monuments with Hermes Trismegistus.

In the time of Dhu'l Nun, an ancient temple (apparently devoted to Min) still existed at Akhmim. That edifice seems to have been of substantial size and in a good state of preservation; the twelfth century Arab geographer Ibn Jubayr recorded his visit and testifies to many hieroglyphic inscriptions in evidence. The Akhmim temple may even have been as large as the Karnak temple complex so famous today. The Akhmim temple was not destroyed until the fourteenth century, the stone being used for local buildings. Archaeologists have recently confirmed that a significant temple did exist at Akhmim, though findings and reports are still regarded as preliminary. The Graeco-Roman era and earlier periods have been stipulated. The discovery of two large statues of Ramessid association caused widespread interest. Much excavation work remains to be done.

The Akhmim temple is likely to have provided a major focus for the ruminations of Dhu'l Nun about antiquity. He may have heard about Greek alchemists of the "Hermetic tradition," men who had lived in Akhmim and elsewhere in earlier centuries. The most famous of these alchemists is now Zosimos of Panopolis (fl. c. 300 CE), whose writings were known to the Arabic alchemical tradition, though very little is known about the life of Zosimos. (11)

3.  The  Hermetic  Alchemist

Confirmation of Dhul Nun's "dual" background is found in the accounts given by the bibliographer of science Said al-Andalusi (d. 1070) and by Ibn al-Qifti (1172-1248). The former composed the Tabaqat al-Umam, which surveys the sciences amongst the Greeks and other nations. Al-Qifti is more well known and was born in Egypt, later becoming a wazir (minister) to the Ayyubid rulers of Aleppo. The Tarikh al-Hukama (History of the Philosophers) is a compendium of Al-Qifti, and this states:

"He [Dhu'l Nun] professed the art of alchemy and belongs to the same class as Jabir ibn Hayyan. He devoted himself to the science of esoterics (ilm u'l batin) and became proficient in many branches of philosophy. He used to frequent the ruined temple (barba) in Akhmim. And it is said that knowledge of the mysteries therein was revealed to him by the way of saintship." (12)

The indications are that the esoteric knowledge referred to in this passage was convergent with the Sufi path of saintship. The association with Jabir ibn Hayyan is of interest, the latter having the name of al-Sufi, as we know from the Fihrist of Al-Nadim, who urged the authenticity of Jabir in the face of some contemporary criticism of the rather prolific Jabir Corpus. The full title of Al-Nadim's book is Fihrist al-Ulum (Index of Sciences), and the author was a bibliophile of some standing.

Al-Nadim (c. 935- 990) may have been a government secretary at Baghdad, and was certainly the son of a warraq(book dealer and copyist scribe), to whom he served an apprenticeship. In that era, bookshops were major meeting places for scholars. The Fihrist was originally written as a catalogue for his family bookshop at Baghdad, but developed into an "erudite encyclopaedia of Islamic culture" to employ a description by the modern translator Bayard Dodge. Al-Nadim seems to have gained his name from being a "court companion" (nadim), probably in the capacity of a secretary or librarian. (13)  He was definitely one of the more erudite Shi'i Muslims, and was evidently in sympathy with the Hermetic art, to which he devoted a separate chapter at the end of his tome. (14)

Al-Nadim names Dhu'l Nun al-Misri as one of the philosophers who spoke of the Hermetic art (i.e., alchemy), and further states that Dhu'l Nun applied himself to ascetic practices and also "left a tradition related to the Art," concerning which he wrote books. (15)  Again, there is the same dual connotation: ascetic Sufism and philosophy in a Hermetic version.

Hermeticism is currently a strange word in popular usage, and has too often been employed undiscerningly. The Hermetic "mysteries" are celebrated in the Greek texts now known as Corpus Hermeticum, dating back to the early centuries of the Christian era, and perhaps earlier. The rather credulous Neoplatonist Iamblichus, in his Mysteries of Egypt, stated circa 300 CE that Hermes had written twenty thousand or thirty-six thousand books, (16) though the Corpus contains less than twenty. These are sometimes called the "philosophical" Hermetica (in the revelatory sense), being distinct from a larger body of more diverse "occultist" texts. This literature was produced by a Greek-speaking milieu in Egypt with syncretistic tendencies, and some native elements have been credited. The "occultist" texts include alchemical and astrological Hermetica. A more notorious category of writings, known as the Greek and Demotic Magical Papyri, are obsessed with spells. These various texts represent trends of popular Graeco-Egyptian religious thought during the Ptolemaic, Roman, and early Christian periods.

Hermeticism was closely related to alchemy, which was a favoured "art" amongst the Greeks. Both Arab and Iranian Muslims took up this "art," though some differing approaches were involved. The discovery of the "elixir" was associated by some with a spiritual achievement, though interpreted by others as a quest for tangible objectives, including literal gold. It seems that Dhu'l Nun was in the former category. He was highly esteemed by other alchemists who belonged to the same Egyptian milieu. Uthman ibn Suwaid Abu Hari al-Akhmimi was perhaps a younger contemporary, and described by Al-Nadim as "a leader in the art of alchemy." Amongst the books of al-Akhmimi was one entitled "Clearing Dhu'l Nun al-Misri of False Charges." (17) This was possibly a reference to the accusations of heresy (see section 1 above).

Dhu'l Nun is also quoted as an alchemical authority in the Ma' al-Waraqi of Abu Abdulla Muhammad ibn Umayl al-Tamimi, known as al-Hakim (the sage, or loosely "philosopher" in some translations). This Egyptian alchemist (known as Ibn Umayl) probably lived during the first half of the tenth century. Ibn Umayl was one of those who had an interest in the ancient temples and their wall-paintings, demonstrated by his description of two "quasi-archaeological expeditions" to a temple at Busir al-Sidr with the purported intention of finding documents of alchemical wisdom. (18) This follows a common theme in Hermetic literature, and one apparently not intended to be taken literally, though it has been pointed out that the details supplied in the Ma' al-Waraqi prove that Ibn Umayl must actually have visited the temple specified, where he saw a statue of Imhotep, though without recognising the archaeological significance. (19) Whatever the interpretation here, some "sayings" of Hermes Trismegistus quoted by Ibn Umayl were taken from Greek originals, though others are considered to be of tenth century Arabic origin. (20)

Early Islamic alchemy was evidently in close affinity with the Hermetic tradition inherited from the Greeks. The hieroglyphs were associated with a complex lore considered esoteric by the Muslim Hermeticists, a grouping who came into existence during the ninth century. These men were "philosophers" (hukama) in a "neoPythagorean" or "Neoplatonist" sense associated with Iamblichus rather than Plotinus, who was revived during the ninth century in a translation confused with Aristotle (i.e., the so-called Theology of Aristotle).

There was a strong Islamisation of Hermetic lore by the tenth century. Masudi and Al-Nadim identified the Quranic prophet Idris with Hermes, a figure then associated with the evocative "Sabaeans" of Harran (in Mesopotamia), who in the early ninth century claimed their prophet as Idris/Hermes, thus gaining "protected people" (dhimmi) status under the Caliph al-Mamun. According to Shahrastani (1086-1153), the pagan people of Harran claimed to be the Sabaeans named in the Quran (surah 2 verse 62).

Idris became assimilated to a threefold Hermes. Muslim scholars tried to make sense of antique lore by concluding that there were three ancient sages named Hermes, whom they called Hirmis. Hermes Trismegistus became known in Arabic as Hirmis al-muthallath bi'l-hikma, meaning "Hermes, threefold in wisdom." A more common rendition was Hirmis al-Haramisah or "Hermes of the Hermai." This theme underwent various adventures, an influential version being contributed by the Muslim astrologer Abu Mashar al-Balkhi (787-886), who wrote the Book of Thousands, now lost, though the section on Hermes was reproduced in other sources. The first Hermes (the prophet Idris) is here depicted as living in Egypt and building the Pyramids and temples. Because he feared that all knowledge would be lost in the pending flood, he built the temple of Akhmim, whose walls were reputedly inscribed with the secrets of all sciences and arts. The second Hermes was believed to have lived in Babylon and to have taught Pythagoras, being skilled in philosophy and medicine and reviving the sciences lost in the flood. The second Hermes also represented the Zoroastrian tradition of wisdom. The third Hermes was associated with Egypt, as a master of philosophy and alchemy.

This elaborate lore notably acted as an index to ancient religions and Greek philosophy for the Arabic-speaking literati. Preoccupation with Hermetic wisdom and "secrets" was a means of negotiating the orthodox Islamic disapproval of the alien traditions. In view of the Akhmim legend, the threefold Hermes lore could easily have fascinated Dhu'l Nun al-Misri.

Al-Nadim records that he had read a work by Ibn Wahshiyah (fl. 900 CE), which gave a transcription of the alphabets (or "calligraphies") in which books on alchemy and related subjects were written. Amongst these alphabets were the Faqitus and the Musnad. The former has been suggested to mean Coptic, while the latter could be a reference to the esteemed hieroglyphs. Al-Nadim adds that these scripts could be found in books relating to "the Art, magic, and charms, in the languages with which people originated science." (21) The confusion between science and the sector of magic and talismans was still rife during the European renaissance. Ibn Wahshiyah (who is said to have translated from Syriac into Arabic) was an alchemist and "a magician who made talismans" according to Al-Nadim, who also referred to this alchemist by the epithet of al-Sufi. In these early days of Islam, the title of al-Sufi was used rather loosely, it would seem; the later "orthodox" connotations of the word sufi effectively restricted application of the terminology to a much more closely defined religious format. The Sufi teachings eschewed magic and talismans.

4.   Egyptology  Debate  about  the  Hieroglyphs

The preoccupation with hieroglyphs has to be seen in due perspective, and was evidently related to a minority trend in which Hermetic "philosophers" of Islam, and other scholars, investigated "ancient sciences" in the available languages of Arabic, Syriac, Coptic, and Greek. Most Islamic alchemists were probably limited to the Arabic tongue.

Dhu'l Nun's birthplace of Akhmim (Panopolis) has been described as "a Christian town with a noteworthy scientific tradition, where a great many people knew Greek, Coptic, and Arabic." (22) Dhu'l Nun might therefore have acquired a knowledge of Greek in his native town, in addition to his Arabic education. However, most scholars would consider this unlikely; even the philosopher Al-Farabi does not appear to have been familiar with Greek.

A recent (and controversial) contribution from an Egyptologist, Dr. Okasha El Daly (see egyptology), has served to highlight the issue of medieval Arab interest in ancient Egyptian remains. That interest was extensive, more so than has generally been credited. The El Daly thesis has emphasised the Arabic interest in ancient Egypt as being inspired by Quranic reference to Pharaoh, reports of early Muslim travellers, and the Copts. Forms of archaeology occurred, though manuals for treasure hunting were a blight, leading to destruction and stone quarries, developments lamented by some Arab scholars. Attempted decipherments of ancient Egyptian scripts were made with the assistance of Copts; some Muslim scholars are said to have been familiar with Coptic. (23)

The El Daly coverage mentions many medieval Egyptian writers such as the ninth century Ayub Ibn Maslama, who is said to have deciphered various texts for the Caliph al-Mamun during the latter's visit to Egypt. However, a major importance attaches to Dhu'l Nun al-Misri, and attention is given to a manual attributed to him that was located in Turkey, being an eighteenth century manuscript copy. This manual was a guide to deciphering many scripts, including the hieroglyphs. A familiarity with Coptic is here indicated. The basic implication is that Dhu'l Nun was a scholar in this subject who was able to decipher the hieroglyphs, however partially. (24)

This achievement is viewed as being facilitated by recourse to the contemporary Coptic language, preserved by Christian priests. Dr. El Daly has also stressed the significance of the alchemist Ibn Wahshiyah, who was not an Egyptian but an Iraqi (or Iraqi Aramaean), and who has long been the subject of specialist probes and disagreements. (25) The latter's Kitab Shawq al-Mustaham profiles ancient scripts, including the Egyptian hieroglyphs. El Daly implies that some of the hieroglyphs had been deciphered by Ibn Wahshiyah.

A critical response to the El Daly research acknowledged the "wealth of medieval Arabic extracts from manuscripts, many of which have never been published before." The concession was made that Egyptologists "usually completely ignore Egypt's Islamic period." However, "the author [El Daly] clearly believes that the Arabic writers knew the meaning of some hieroglyphs, due either through transmitted knowledge or via bilingual texts, though this is not shown convincingly." The critic implies that Arabic writers merely "paired hieroglyphs with their own alphabet." Furthermore, the claim of El Daly that Ibn Wahshiyah "correctly identified determinatives, which he distinguishes from alphabetical letters" is not accepted by the reviewer, who objects that "what seems rather to be the case is that Ibn Wahshiyah suggested that hieroglyphs might represent sounds as well as ideas, a notion which does not have much to do with an accurate knowledge of ideograms versus phonograms, let alone determinatives."

The critical reviewer expressed the conclusion that an Arabic decipherment of the hieroglyphs did not occur, and that the presumed "knowledge of ancient Egypt" was inseparable from the more rudimentary observation of surviving monuments or derivation from Graeco-Roman and Coptic written sources. However, the critic also stated that "the book [of El Daly] has convinced me that the Arabic writers had a serious historical interest in ancient Egypt, an interest which has been undervalued considerably." Further, "the work of some medieval Arabic scholars may well have inspired, via Kircher, the work of Champollion." (The quotations are from theegyptologyforum.org book review, dated June 2005, by A.K. Eyma.)

Amongst the varied Arabic writers portrayed by Dr. El Daly is Ibn Abd Al-Hakam (803-871), a contemporary of Dhu'l Nun. This Egyptian historian was born at Fustat (Old Cairo); his orally transmitted Futuh Misr is described as the first book written by a native Egyptian of the Islamic era. That work reveals the author as a nationalist historian, possibly in reaction to the harsh treatment of his family by the Abbasid Caliph al-Mutawakkil. Ibn Abd Al-Hakam praises the Copts, and displays "a good knowledge of native traditions and of the ancient history and monuments of Egypt." (26) Such undercurrents of native reaction to the distant Abbasid rule may have been one of the influences at work in the career of Dhu'l Nun al-Misri.

5.  The  Sufi  Gnostic

Some Arabic sources say that Dhu'l Nun early visited Fustat (Old Cairo), a garrison town of the Delta which replaced Alexandria as the capital of Egypt.

A report that the Alexandrian library was burned by the Arab invaders during the 640s has been regarded as spurious by modern scholars. The fiction cannot be traced earlier than circa 1200, at a time when the trends in Islamic learning were changing for the worse, and the anti-scientific and anti-philosophical tendencies were mounting. The early administration of Islamic Egypt preserved the literary heritage of the country, including what had survived from the Alexandrian library, whose contents had been committed to the flames centuries before the coming of Islam. In reality, the medical literature of Alexandria was made available to later translators and practitioners, as confirmed by the number of notable native physicians among the Copts during the pre-Fatimid era. The Greek medical compendia of Alexandria were translated into Arabic during the ninth century, being incorporated into new medical encyclopaedias. (27)

In the time of Dhu'l Nun, scientific acumen was increasing amongst liberal Muslims; he himself is reputed to have studied medicine in addition to the Quran and hadith. At some point he adopted an ascetic life; he is reported to have travelled in Arabia, Syria, and Palestine. He is said to have visited the Muslim ascetics on Mount Lukkam, near Antioch. According to the early (tenth century) report of Kalabadhi, he encountered a female ascetic in Syria who criticised the lifestyle of affluent town-dwellers. A later variant of this episode (possibly relating to the same entity) is found in Hujwiri's Kashf al-Mahjub, which describes an encounter occurring during a journey from Jerusalem to Egypt. The matriarch carried a staff and wore a woollen garment of the type that became closely associated with Sufis.

(28)

Key events were the two stigmatisations of Dhu'l Nun as a heretic (section 1 above), though the information is sparse, and also inflated with regard to the intervention of the Caliph al-Mutawakkil (rgd 847-861). (29) The historian Al-Khatib, in his History of Baghdad, reports that Mutawakkil gained respect for the Egyptian, acquitted him, and asked him to describe sainthood. The speech that is put into the mouth of Dhu'l Nun (30)  has been regarded as an embellishment.

The Caliph al-Mutawakkil reversed the policies of his predecessors, dispensing with the Mutazili doctrine and the associated inquisition, a situation which had buttressed "the religious importance of the Caliph" by implying that the Quran was "subject to authoritative Caliphal interpretation" (31) This situation dated back to the reign of al- Mamun (813-833), who enforced the Mutazili doctrines and initiated the inquisition. Al- Mamun's calculating support for the Mutazili right wing coincided with his crushing of the revolt that occurred in Egypt amongst the discontented peasantry. The less privileged Arab settlers made common cause with the subordinated Copts at that time, but lost to the imperial regime, which diverted Egyptian revenue to Baghdad, a disastrous policy which encompassed the ruin of agriculture in the Nile valley. (32)

The orthodox reporting of Al-Dhahabi (d. c. 1350), an Arab historian and theologian of Damascus, reiterated the conventional version of Dhu'l Nun's heresy in terms of upholding the conservative religious view that the Quranwas uncreated. In view of other details, one suspects that the "second" heresy possessed a deeper content which escaped memory. This question is independent of the queries relating to an esoteric commentary on the Quran ascribed to Jafar Sadiq, a book with which Dhu'l Nun is associated in an editorial capacity. That commentary (tafsir) was accommodated to a Shi'i perspective. (33)

Upon his return to Egypt from Iraq, Dhu'l Nun apparently settled (or resettled) in the Fustat (Old Cairo) area. Fustat was the first Islamic capital of Egypt. Cairo was built to the north in the late tenth century, and eventually absorbed Fustat (today Old Cairo). The Abbasid Caliphs moved the capital to the closely adjacent city of Al-Askar during the period 750-868, which encompasses the life of Dhu'l Nun.

His death occurred at nearby Giza (then a village), in the shadow of the Old Kingdom Pyramids and the Sphinx. The unknown views of Dhu'l Nun about those monuments might have been more convincing than some fantasies of Western occultists in recent times. His tombstone has been commemorated, located in one of the cemeteries at Old Cairo. (34)

The Giza Pyramids

The sources credit Dhu'l Nun with a large number of disciples in tasawwuf (Sufism). It seems unlikely that he trained all of them in an exclusively ascetic lifestyle.The tenth century Sufi annalist Kalabadhi early reported the Egyptian's answer to a question concerning the gnostic ideal: "He [the gnostic] is a man who, being with them, is yet apart from them." (35) This Arabic reflection is reminiscent of a Persian phrase later favoured by some Sufis: "Be in the world but not of the world."

Some Sufi annalists (including Sulami and Qushayri) affirm that one of his disciples was Sahl al-Tustari (d. 896), an Iranian from Ahwaz who also became celebrated in Sufism. Another early source reported that Tustari visited Egypt, (36) though the details are fragmentary.

The late medieval monograph attributed to the Egyptian polymath al-Suyuti (d. 1505) is a compilation of earlier materials. That memorial breaks down into seven sections which reveal the circumscribed emphases attendant upon the canonisation of Dhu'l Nun in Sufism. The presentation comprises 1) the miracles of Dhu'l Nun 2) his mystical career 3) his sayings 4) his prayers 5) his encounter with the Caliph Mutawakkil 6) his poems 7) a collection of the hadith (traditions of the prophet) transmitted by him.

The religio-mystical poetry ascribed to the subject has been judged authentic by some scholars. Yet the attributed alchemical writings have been considered discrepant with the practice of Sufism. The French scholar Louis Massignon was influential, via his "Islamic theory" of Sufism, in casting doubt upon the accounts of Dhu'l Nun by Islamic historians and bibliographers, instead favouring the canonical annals of Sufism. (37) This subject of the relegated "Hermetic" Dhu'l Nun is capable of evoking disagreement, though it is necessary to be realistic in deciphering the profile.

Maliki jurists and right wing Mutazili theologians would probably have been indifferent and uncomprehending even if Dhu'l Nun had succeeded in deciphering the Egyptian hieroglyphs, though any suggestion of a ninth century Rosetta Stone merely seems preposterous to modern sceptics of antique ingenuity. He would have needed to know Coptic, and a multilingual artefact would have been a priority. According to the El Daly theory (section 4 above), Dhu'l Nun was familiar with Coptic, and there were numerous surviving objects that displayed two or three languages translating the same hieroglyphic text. The same innovative Egyptologist has emphasised that Champollion benefited from study of the book on Coptic grammar by Athanasius Kircher (1602-80), a seminal work relating to Arabic manuscripts. El Daly has also stressed that Champollion was at some pains to study Arabic.

Kircher was a German Jesuit who established the link between hieroglyphics and Coptic, and he has been considered the founder of Egyptology. However, his efforts to decipher the hieroglyphs were misfounded. The French scholar Jean Francois Champollion (1790-1832) is celebrated as the first man to decipher the hieroglyphic system. He achieved this feat as a consequence of studying a granodiorite slab only four feet high, found near Alexandria in 1799 by the French army of Napoleon. That Ptolemaic era stele was subsequently known as the Rosetta Stone, and acquired a new home in the British Museum. The stele bears the same inscription in three scripts: classical Greek, demotic Egyptian, and hieroglyphs. The knowledge of Coptic possessed by Champollion has been deemed the key factor in penetrating the phonetics of ancient Egyptian. He grasped that the hieroglyphs had to be read as a phonetic script, and not as a symbolic script.

Champollion could read Coptic and Greek, and by investigating the seven demotic signs in Coptic, he was able to trace the significances in some of the hieroglyphs. Afterwards he ingeniously created an alphabet to decipher the remaining hieroglyphs. There was nothing esoteric in the stele hieroglyphs, as the contents were concerned with a taxation benefit awarded to the temple priests of the day by Ptolemy V, who restored their economic privileges of earlier times. The stele dates to the early second century BC.

El Daly has argued that ninth century Arabic-speaking literati had plumbed the fact that sounds were crucial to the decipherment of hieroglyphs. He has made the accusation that a Eurocentric view subsequently ignored the findings of Arabic scholarship (more especially in the case of Ibn Wahshiya).

In relation to other linguistic matters, there have been conjectures about a basic appellation. The Arabic name Dhu'l Nun can mean "Lord of the Fish," (nun can mean "fish" or the letter nun, i.e., n). The sobriquet is found in the Quran, (38)   and referring to the Biblical entity Jonah and his adventure with the whale (= fish). Jonah is acknowledged by the Quran as a prophet. According to one suggestion, the associative name may have been bestowed upon Abu'l Faiz Thauban as a title of some gnostic significance. Others merely read "he of the letternun," though that alternative involves a further conjecture as to the meaning intended. Certainly, some Persian Sufi sources awarded associations of mystical achievement to the "fish" theme denoted. In his discourses known as Fihi Ma Fihi, Jalal al-Din Rumi (d. 1273) cites a tradition of Muhammad: "Do not prefer me above Jonah son of Matthew, in that his ascension was in the belly of the whale while my ascension was in heaven upon the Throne." (39)

The gulf between religiosity and gnostic (arif) psychology is indicated in a reported Sufi saying of Dhu'l Nun: "Ordinary men repent of their sins, but the elect repent of their heedlessness." (40) The Arabic term ghafla(heedlessness) was inverse to sincerity (sidq), which was a key term in early Sufi texts. Many heedless people imagine they are sincere, including presumed mystics. According to the Dhu'l Nun transmission: "Sincerity (sidq) is a divine sword which cuts all bonds." (41)  A related emphasis of this Egyptian mystic was that of avoiding any pretension to gnosis, a pretension nowadays too frequently visible in diverse cults and sects.

6.   Canonical  Annals  of  Sufism

Orthodox annalists of Sufism tend to report the career of Dhu'l Nun in an unsatisfactory manner, despite the more exemplary contribution of Abu Nuaym al-Isfahani (d. 1038). The latter was a traditionist of Iran who devoted a substantial section to Dhu'l Nun in his lengthy Hilyat al-Awliya, and who did not neglect to include the belief in the prowess of the Egyptian gnostic with hieroglyphs. Abu Nuaym is associated with transmission of the Syrian and Iraqi traditions, as distinct from the less prolific Egyptian reports of the subject. Abu Nuaym was writing as a traditionist and not as a Sufi. (42)

Upon close inspection, it is mainly the sayings of Dhu'l Nun which receive attention in the annals of canonical Sufism. Many of his sayings were relayed by the Iranian exegetes Abu Nasr Sarraj, Sulami, Qushayri, and Ansari. The biographical complement is very anecdotal, and attended by presumed miracles (karamat). The twelfth century Iranian poet Attar of Nishapur typically embellished anecdotes in his Tazkhirat al-Awliya (Memorial of the Saints).

Some of these reports give the subject a high rating, apparently because he was regarded as an innovator in gnosis. Hujwiri (eleventh century) comments that this "son of a Nubian" was "one of the best" Sufi exemplars; Hujwiri appears to be influenced here by the belief that Dhu'l Nun followed the path of "blame" or malamat (a term closely associated with Khurasan, though not with Egypt). Hujwiri adds that the people of Egypt did not believe in Dhu'l Nun until after his death, a realistic detail, but then proceeds to give a rather pious explanation for the change in public opinion, including the claim that religiously significant words were found inscribed on the forehead of his corpse. (43) There is no reference to hieroglyphs, alchemy, or the Akhmim environment.

Long after, in distant Herat, Jami (fifteenth century) gave high praise to Dhu'l Nun in his Nafahat al-Uns. The Persian writer describes the Egyptian as "the head of this sect (Sufism): they (the Sufis) all descend from, and are related to, him." (44) The few pages which Jami devotes to Dhu'l Nun are in the standard idiom of hagiography; the anecdotes and dicta do not convincingly profile ninth century events. Dhu'l Nun is stipulated by Hujwiri and others to have been an exponent of marifa (gnosis) and the Sufi path. Kalabadhi (tenth century) reported the Egyptian being asked: "What is the end [objective] of the gnostic ?" The enigmatic answer came: "When he is as he was where he was before he was." (45)

The philosophical reader begins to suspect that the esoteric language of Dhu'l Nun al-Misri was not an open book to his contemporaries. However, quite apart from that prospect, the "orthodox Sufi" sources had evidently lost contact with a largely forgotten Egyptian milieu. This is perhaps understandable in that the early annalists of Sufism were Iranians and Iraqis.

7.  Theory  of  Christian  Neoplatonist  Influence

The "Christian Neoplatonist" interpretation was not excluded by the "Islamic" theory (relating to Sufism) associated with Louis Massignon. Since the nineteenth century, the influence upon early Sufism of Dionysius Areopagiticus has been emphasised by Christian investigators, and more recently urged in relation to Dhu'l Nun by the versatile Roman Catholic scholars Louis Gardet and Georges Anawati.

The Pseudo-Dionysius was composing circa 500 CE, and is often identified as a monastic writer, possibly living in Syria. He ascribed his output to Dionysius the Areopagite, an Athenian converted by the apostle Paul. His real identity is unknown. Different scholarly theories about his exposition can be confusing. His corpus has been considered idiosyncratic. The myth of apostolic authenticity was demolished by the discovery that Pseudo-Dionysius substantially employed Neoplatonist sources, especially Proclus. Some analysts concluded that he preserved Neoplatonist influences in the face of official Christian intolerance, and the suggestion appeared that he was effectively a pupil of Proclus, the fifth century pagan Neoplatonist. However, another form of exegesis argues that Pseudo-Dionysius was a Christian theologian disguised as a Neoplatonist, having the intention of mastering the pagan sources and thus defeating the rival sector. (46) See also Damascius.

Some commentators have referred to the less prominent Stephen Bar Sudaili, who has been described as a Syrian Christian monk of Origenist views, an obscure figure dating to the early sixth century CE. He is credited with the work in Syriac known as The Book of the Holy Hierotheos. Some Christian scholars have described this document rather disparagingly as a "quasi-Gnostic" treatise. However, a translator assessed the treatise as "one of the most amazing mystical books ever written by a Christian," and adding that "no other Christian writer ever accepted so completely, or stated with such audacity, the pantheistic philosophy." The same scholar concluded that the Book of Hierotheos was directly or indirectly indebted to Pseudo-Dionysius.  (47)

The mystics amongst the Eastern Christians were much nearer pagan and Oriental heresies than the Latin church. A degree of compatibility with some early Sufi exponents is not difficult to concede. However, in the case of Dhu'l Nun, it is very questionable to attribute his formulation of the "stages, stations and states" of the Sufi path to Christian sources, "perhaps under the influence of the ascetic and mystical spirituality of the Oriental monks (we think of the Ladder to Paradise by St. John Climacus)." (48) Climacus (523-606) wrote in his ScalaParadisi about an ascent leading by gradual stages to the perfection of mystical life. Other commentators have attributed to Plotinus the influence for such conceptions, which are notoriously difficult to ascertain in terms of textual and ideological preferences. Furthermore, the traditional idea that Dhu'l Nun was the innovator of Sufi gnostic concepts does not stand the test of due analysis. To quote a relatively early assessment of Professor Arberry:

"He [Dhu'l Nun] is generally credited with having introduced the idea of gnosis (marifa) into Sufism, but this would appear to be incorrect since the conception certainly occurs in the fragments of earlier ascetics. Dhu'l Nun is ... said to have known the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, and to have been familiar with the Hermetic wisdom. A number of short treatises of extremely doubtful authenticity are attributed to him; his poems and prayers, so much as are preserved of them, give a truer impression of his mode of thought, which is marked by distinctly pantheistic tendencies." (49)

8.   R. A.  Nicholson's  Neoplatonist  Theory

The "purist" Neoplatonist interpretation of Professor Reynold A. Nicholson argued for the influence of Plotinus, though not implying any direct textual influence as a necessity for this theory. Rather, Greek Neoplatonism was "in the air" such Sufis breathed. (50)   That theme is open-ended, and does evoke significant complexities, though not of a definitive kind.

From the early ninth century onwards, Muslim thinkers gained familiarity with Greek philosophy, often via Christian scholars and translators. Aristotle came to be the most well known authority in the Islamic world, though to some extent mutated by the teachings of Proclus and Plotinus, which passed as Aristotelian. Circa 830 CE, the so-called Theology of Aristotle was translated into Arabic by the Syrian Christian Ibn Na'imah al-Himsi; though believed to be a work by Aristotle, the Theologia Aristotelis was actually a version of books IV-VI of the Enneads of Plotinus; this redaction proved influential amongst Muslim philosophers from the time of Al-Kindi (d. c. 866), who was active in Baghdad.

It is not known whether Dhu'l Nun al-Misri was familiar with Greek. Certainly, the Coptic language had adopted the Greek alphabet. There was an unusual degree of linguistic overlap in certain aspects of the Egyptian culture at this period. Although the official language of the Islamic administration in Egypt had been changed from Greek to Arabic at the order of the Caliph in 694 CE, the Byzantine administrative system survived in Egypt for a further two centuries. No radical change seems to have occurred in the land of the Nile prior to the early eighth century, when the new Arabisation was implemented. The Caliphal objective was to have the Arab settlers take over the administration, which then formed a Christian majority. Fiscal documents reveal that during the latter half of the eighth century, Coptic and Greek were equally as prevalent as Arabic. Further, and more surprisingly, Coptic and Greek phrases, and also Greek numbers, were used in official documents three centuries after the administrative reform was commenced. (51)  

A relevant point is that the non-Sufi Arabic sources describe Dhu'l Nun as a philosopher and alchemist; this factor prompted Nicholson to interpret him as a student of Hellenistic science rather than the more selective sources involved in Christian Neoplatonism. (52)

One of the Arabic sources is Ibn Khallikan (d. 1282), a qazi (legist) of Damascus who produced a large collection of biographies in his Wafayat al-Ayan. The entry on Dhu'l Nun here describes him as a philosopher (hakim) and learned man who spoke elegant Arabic. (53)  A polymathic range is deducible. Some analysts of Sufism have been liberal in their assessment of such sources. It has even been asserted that Dhu'l Nun was "well versed in philosophy, law, literature, alchemy, ancient Egyptian history, and hieroglyphics," and furthermore that he was "the model of a renaissance man." (54)  Others are more stringent in assessment. "It is impossible to be certain whether or not Dhu'l Nun studied medicine, alchemy, and magic, though he is cited as the author of alchemical writings from the 9th century onward" (G. Bowering, "Du'l Nun Mesri, Abu'l Fayz Tauban," Encyclopaedia Iranica online).

9.  The  Palacios  Version

A contemporary of the British scholar Reynold A. Nicholson was the Spanish Arabist Miguel Asin Palacios. The latter wrote an appendix on Dhu'l Nun in his book about Ibn Masarra (d. 931) of Spain. Though brief, this appendix was sufficiently evocative to be influential.

A Christianising accent is discernible in some interpretations of Palacios, who viewed the Nubian (and non-Arab) ethnicity of Dhu'l Nun, and the Thebaid environment (of Akhmim), in terms of explaining "how the introduction of Christian monastic asceticism and of the traditional theosophical occultism of Egypt into Islam was due to him." (55)  Both Christian and Hermetic influences were here being discussed as operative.

Palacios observes that Akhmim was in the vicinity of an event in which the hermit Palamon had taught the Coptic saint Pachomius (Pakhom) several centuries before, the latter founding a monastery at Tabennesis (some distance to the south) in the fourth century CE. That is indeed an interesting geographical juxtaposition, though one which does not prove Christian influence from the monks of the Thebaid. Another Pachomian monastery was in the close proximity of Akhmim (Panopolis). However, the same town has also been viewed as the originating milieu for the Hermetic cult of the Graeco-Roman period, and this had nothing to do with Christianity. The outlook of Palacios may be gleaned from the following:

"All the biographers of Dhu'l Nun agree that he was a very austere ascetic who submitted his body to the most rigorous mortifications. He lived continually in imitation of the Christian 'vagabonds,' wandering through the deserts of Nitria, beside the banks of the Nile, on the beaches of Egypt, and through the mountains of Lebanon. He searched everywhere for teachers.... But more than an ascetic, he is pictured as a mystic or ecstatic Sufi, the first (together with the Persian Abu Yazid al-Bistami) to be considered as such." (56)

The same scholar mentions the brief reference of Ibn Khallikan to the Sufi teacher of Dhu'l Nun, an obscure entity named as Shaqran al-Abid, meaning Shaqran the ascetic. Palacios suggests that Shaqran might have been "an ascetic of Christian lineage." Again, that is speculation. (Elsewhere, there is an earlier reference to a Maliki ascetic as a teacher of Dhu'l Nun, though with chronological and other contextual difficulties.)

Via Said al-Andalusi and Al-Qifti, Palacios acknowledges that Akhmim had the repute of being an "ancient centre of the esoteric sciences," the Arabic tradition attributing to Dhu'l Nun a knowledge of alchemy and magic, "the Hermetic art of deciphering the hieroglyphs," and the interpretation of dreams.

Citing Ibn Khallikan and others, Palacios construes that the subject's teaching and fame as a saint provoked the envy of legists and aroused fear in the civil authorities. His "ideas about the ecstatic union" were condemned as heretical, though he was acquitted in a trial before the ruler of Egypt. Palacios tends to conflate the first and second frictions with orthodoxy (section 1 above), saying that the subject was afterwards sent to a prison in Baghdad, and subsequently vindicated by the Caliph al-Mutawakkil. (57)  

10.  Leaven  of  the  Pythagoreans

The "Islamic Neoplatonist" interpretation of Dhu'l Nun al-Misri was briefly and allusively expressed by the ishraqi philosopher Shihab al-Din Yahya Suhrawardi (d. 1191). In his Arabic work Kitab al-mashari wa'l mutarahat, Suhrawardi refers to a spiritual genealogy including Empedocles, Pythagoras, and Plato, though ultimately linked to Hermes, the "father of philosophers" (walid al-hukama). The "leaven of the Pythagoreans" devolved upon the "brother of Ikhmim," Dhu'l Nun (and, via him, to Sahl al-Tustari). The Arabic works of Suhrawardi refer to two lines of transmission, the other being the Iranian branch of the "leaven" associated with the Sufis Abu Bazid Bistami, Hallaj, and Kharaqani. Dhu'l Nun is here an Islamic NeoPythagoran or Hermeticist, linking to Pythagoras and the ancient Egyptians in the rather complex "philosophical genealogy" emphasised by Suhrawardi in terms of a continuing ancient wisdom spread amongst different nations. (58) The theme of "the eternal leaven" (al-hamirat al-azaliyya) referred to a wisdom tradition which Suhrawardi claimed to inherit.

Investigating this claim of Suhrawardi, Professor John Walbridge has stated that "Dhu'l Nun was as much an alchemist as a Sufi." (59) The persistent tradition of alchemy at Akhmim is difficult to ignore. The same American scholar cites the suggestion of Garth Fowden that Panopolis was the centre of a cult which produced the Corpus Hermeticum during the early Christian era. Whether or not that suggestion is accurate, the so-called "Hermetica Belt" geographically features Panopolis in between Nag Hammadi and Hermopolis. At Nag Hammadi was discovered the now celebrated gnostic library (including three Hermetic texts), while Hermopolis was the pilgrimage setting for the supposed tomb of Hermes Trismegistus, who was associated with Thoth.

The early Islamic phase of alchemy is strongly associated with Akhmim due to the output of Uthman ibn Suwayd al-Akhmimi and Butrus al-Hakim al-Akhmimi, both of them apparently ninth century figures. Some scholars have deduced that Uthman ibn Suwayd was almost certainly the author of the original Turba Philosophorum, a well known work featuring alchemical views attributed to a gathering of early Greek philosophers over whom Pythagoras presided. That work was translated from Arabic into Latin. Butrus al-Hakim composed works citing Hermes and Zosimos of Panopolis (Akhmim). (60)

The strong convergence between mysticism and magic in the pre-Islamic Hermetic mindset is disconcerting. The famous Hermetic text Asclepius has been criticised for theurgistic passages in which the objective was to manipulate a god into a statue. Such ideas doubtless reflected tendencies of the ancient Egyptian priesthoods. Professor Brian P. Copenhaver has observed:

"Oddly enough, it was the alchemist Zosimos (circa 300 CE) who took the strongest stand against magic of any Hermetic author, describing it as a blunt tool useless for purposes that need immaterial instruments." (61)

Zosimos has earned approval for his dismissal of the undiscerning Hermetic conflations (now rampant amongst modern occultists). "Hermes accuses even magic, saying that the spiritual man who has come to know himself has no need to direct anything through magic, even if it is regarded as good." (62)

Alchemists varied in their outlook. Insofar as Dhu'l Nun is concerned, the Suhrawardi ascription of a Hermetic genealogy has been endorsed by Professor Walbridge in terms of:

"Al-Qifti mentions that Dhu'l Nun also knew philosophy and that he acquired his knowledge from study of the signs and pictures in the ancient temples and tombs. Thus, in all likelihood, Suhrawardi's claim about Dhu'l Nun being the bearer of 'the leaven of the Pythagoreans' represents a tradition of the Egyptian alchemists about their own origins and that this tradition has some historical validity." (63)

11.  Conclusion

Dhu'l Nun al-Misri is likely to remain one of the most fascinating figures in early Sufism. Categorical answers to dilemmas concerning his environmental context are elusive, though it is not convincing to annul the "Hermetic" component of his semi-legendary biography, as some commentators have done. Even if none of the attributed "Hermetic" texts are his own, his role at the intersection of formative Sufism and pre-Islamic Egyptian associations is evocative. An underlying question relates to whether a Sufi gnostic could be a philosopher. The Hermetic version of philosophy amounted to revelation, and not the rational thought which non-Hermetic Greek philosophers pursued in addition to the mystical legacies. There were thus different kinds of antique philosopher. The extent of Dhu'l Nun's polymathy is unknown, though it is not difficult to concede his familiarity with scripts, including the Coptic.

As an extension to these considerations, one could envisage that the subject started life as a Maliki traditionist, transited to the ambience of a neo-Hermetic alchemist, and ended up as a Sufi gnostic by 829 (though quite conceivably having been a Sufi or proto-Sufi ascetic at an earlier period). His profile as a heretic was duplicated in relation to the Egyptian Malikis and the right wing Mutazilis, and perhaps the same basic reasons were underlying. The conventional view that he was upholding Maliki literalism is not convincing. His local "Hermetic" reputation, apparently gained during his early years at Akhmim, may have continued as an aspect of his mature mystical career. He appears to have spent many years in the Fustat area of Lower Egypt, but that factor in itself is no guide to his mentation.

Kevin R. D. Shepherd

May 2010

ANNOTATIONS

(1)     See T. Mayer, "Theology and Sufism" (258-287) in T. Winter, ed., The Cambridge Companion to ClassicalIslamic Theology (Cambridge University Press, 2008).

(2)      A. J. Arberry, trans., Muslim Saints and Mystics: Episodes from the Tadhkirat al-Auliya by Farid al-Din Attar(London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1966), p. 87.

(3)      A. Schimmel, Mystical Dimensions of Islam (University of North Carolina Press, 1975), pp. 42-3.

(4)      Shepherd, Meaning in Anthropos (Cambridge: Anthropographia, 1991, p. 109, deferring to possible Coptic (or Arab) maternal ancestry, and in a context of polymathy furthermore resistant to some European racial biases, a context which included the comment: "I maintain that very few Europeans of the nineteenth century equalled the polymath acuity of the ninth century dissenter Dhu'l Nun al-Misri" (ibid.). This strong statement was made in response to the aspersion of Comte de Gobineau that "the European cannot hope to civilise the negro."

(5)       R. A. Nicholson, A Literary History of the Arabs (second edn, Cambridge University Press, 1930), p. 389. Nicholson had arrived at this conclusion in "A Historical Enquiry Concerning the Origin and Development of Sufism," Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society (1906), 303-348, where he describes the father of Dhu'l Nun as a native of Nubia or of Akhmim, and adopted by the Quraysh.

(6)       N. Grimal, A History of Ancient Egypt, trans. I. Shaw (Oxford: Blackwell, 1992), p. 89, and referring to the wealth of local rulers being "apparent in the provincial necropolises at Cusae, Akhmim, Abydos, Edfu and Elephantine."

(7)       E. G. Browne, A Literary History of Persia Vol. 1 (1902; repr. Cambridge University Press, 1928), pp. 419-20.

(8)       While there are several references to Porphyry in the Fihrist, Plotinus is merely mentioned once by name in the translation of Dodge. See B. Dodge, The Fihrist of Al-Nadim Vol. 2 (New York: Columbia University Press, 1970), p. 614.

(9)       Nicholson, A Literary Hist. of the Arabs, pp. 389-90, observing that "no single cause will account for a phenomenon so widely spread." However, Nicholson failed to extend due analysis to the eastern sectors involved. He did state that "the Perso-Indian elements are not to be ignored," though he did not effectively separate the two traditions here conflated. Certain other influential scholars were preoccupied with the "Indian" theory at that date, and this situation tended to eclipse the Iranian factor.

(10)     This is the translation of Nicholson in "A Historical Enquiry Concerning the Origin and Development of Sufism" (1906).

(11)      Cf. Nicholson, art. cit., p. 313; G. Wiet, "Barba," Encyclopaedia of Islam Vol. 1 (new edn), pp. 1038-9; idem, "Akhmim," Ency. Islam Vol. 1, p. 330; Grimal, A Hist. of Ancient Egypt, p. 3, observing that "the Hermetic Corpus... was later to be the main means of access to a civilisation that had become incomprehensible to Christians." The closure of Egyptian temples during the fourth century CE ended with the massacre of the Serapeum priests at Memphis (ibid.).

(12)     The translation is from Nicholson, art. cit., who comments that the true character of Dhu'l Nun appears distinctly in this account. There are complexities in the transmission of Tarikh al-Hukama, which has been described in terms of being "not the author's original work but a compendium compiled about a year after he died by Muhammad b. Ali al-Zawzani." See J. L. Kraemer, Philosophy in the Renaissance of Islam (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1986), pp. 100-1. See also A. Dietrich, "Ibn al-Kifti," Encyclopaedia of Islam Vol. 3 (new edn), p. 840.

(13)     B. Dodge, trans., The Fihrist of Al-Nadim Vol. 1 (New York: Columbia University Press, 1970), p. xv, who also infers that the author was a Mutazili sympathiser. Al-Nadim is known to have attended an Ismaili meeting, but Dodge says that this does not imply sectarianism.

(14)     In some of my books, I referred in notes to my Survey of the Sufi Phenomenon, an unpublished manuscript composed during the 1980s. Dhu'l Nun al-Misri was entry no. 23 in that ms., an entry which has since been edited and expanded for the current article. Entries 24 and 25 of that ms. related to Jabir ibn Hayyan and Ibn Wahshiya. The ms. was unfinished, but included thirteenth century figures; an earlier version described Indian Sufism until the nineteenth century.

(15)     Dodge, trans., The Fihrist of Al-Nadim Vol. 2, pp. 850. 862.

(16)     B. P. Copenhaver, Hermetica (Cambridge University Press, 1992), p. xvi, and referring to the inflated listings of Seleucus and Manetho.

(17)     Dodge, trans., The Fihrist Vol. 2, p. 865.

(18)     G. Strohmaier, "Ibn Umayl," Encyclopaedia of Islam Vol. 3 (new edn), pp. 961-2.

(19)     B. H. Stricker, "La Prison de Joseph," Acta Orientalia (1943) 19:101-137, decoding the description of Ibn Umayl's barba as a temple of Imhotep, though more a simple chapel rather than any elaborate edifice. Imhotep was a Third Dynasty courtier and priest who became deified as a local god of Memphis; he was known to the Greeks as Imouthes "and even survived the pharaonic civilisation itself by finding a place in Arab tradition, especially at Saqqara, where his tomb was supposed to be located" (Grimal, A Hist. of Ancient Egypt, p. 66).

(20)     H. E. Stapleton et al, "The Sayings of Hermes Quoted in the Ma'al-Waraqi," Ambix (1949) 3:69ff.

(21)     Dodge, trans., The Fihrist Vol. 2, pp. 864-5. Dodge says that Faqitus may mean Quftus, equivalent to Coptos. On Abu Mashar al-Balkhi and the threefold Hermes lore, see J. Walbridge, The Wisdom of the Mystic East: Suhrawardi and Platonic Orientalism (State University of New York Press, 2001), pp. 20-1.

(22)     E. J. Holmyard, Alchemy (Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1957), p. 83.

(23)     See O. El Daly, Egyptology: The Missing Millenium - Ancient Egypt in Medieval Arabic Writings (London: UCL Press, 2005).

(24)     Ibid., pp. 57ff., 163ff.

(25)     Still regarded as a curiosity is the translation by Joseph Hammer of Ibn Wahshiya's Kitab Shawq al-Mustaham. This bore the elaborate title of Ancient Alphabets and Hieroglyphic Characters Explained; with an Account of the Egyptian Priests, their Classes, Initiation, and Sacrifices in the Arabic Language by Ahmad Bin Abubekr Bin Wahishih (London 1806). The reference to Egyptian priests is misleading, as Ibn Wahshiya was referring to a Hermetic theme. This work is a distinctive, if idiosyncratic, catalogue of 93 cryptic alphabets (or ciphers) attributed to various ancient peoples and traditions, including the Egyptians, Greeks, and Hindus. Hammer gave what now reads as a very antiquated translation of a manuscript found at Cairo, the text of which is reproduced. It is apparent that Al-Nadim was referring to the same treatise.The ensuing European cycle of commentary on Ibn Wahshiya was varied, and resulted in accusations that one of his works was a forgery, namely the controversial Kitab al-falaha al-nabatiya (Book of Nabataean Agriculture). This disputed Arabic text exalts the ancient "Babylonian" civilisation; supposedly translated from "Babylonian" sources, the Nabataean Agriculture discusses "Sabaean" beliefs and superstitions, including magic. According to some scholars, Ibn Wahshiya was not a Muslim, though others have disagreed. A recent analysis is J. Hameen-Anttila, The Last Pagans of Iraq: Ibn Wahshiyya and his Nabatean Agriculture (Leiden, 2006), which dates the text in question at circa 600 AD, and describing that text as a translation from a Syriac version of an obscure Greek source.

(26)     O. El Daly, Egyptology: The Missing Millenium, p. 165.

(27)     S. K. Hamarneh, "Medicine and Pharmacy under the Fatimids" (143-185) in S. H. Nasr, ed., Ismaili Contributions to Islamic Culture (Tehran: Iranian Academy of Philosophy, 1977), pp. 143-4.

(28)      A. J. Arberry, trans., The Doctrine of the Sufis (Cambridge University Press, 1935), p. 11; R. A. Nicholson, trans., The Kashf al-Mahjub (London: Luzac, 1936), pp. 101-2. These encounters are amongst those tending to support the conclusion of Ignaz Goldziher that, contrary to some assumptions, much is heard in Sufi and Islamic literature of female saints from the earliest to the most recent times. See Goldziher, Muslim Studies Vol. 2, ed. S.M. Stern (London: George Allen & Unwin, 1971), pp. 270ff., and observing that in the earlier centuries of Islam, women had a much larger share in religious scholarship than is usually appreciated.

(29)     Arberry, Muslim Saints and Mystics, p. 87, does not differentiate between the two phases of censure. He states 829 (AH 214) as the year of Dhu'l Nun's arrest in relation to imprisonment at Baghdad. Others think that this was much too early, and that the subsequent problem in 843 (AH 228) amounted to an exile. See also J. Van Ess, "Der Kreis des Dhu'l-Nun," Die Welt des Orients 12 (1981):99-105.

(30)      For a translation of this speech, see M. Smith, An Early Mystic of Baghdad (London, 1935), pp. 81-2. Cf. idem, "Dhu'l Nun," Encyclopaedia of Islam Vol. 2 (1965), p. 242.

(31)      I. M. Lapidus, A History of Islamic Societies (Cambridge University Press, 1988), p. 124, and adding that "despite the reversal, the damage done to Caliphal authority was irreparable" (ibid.).

(32)      See B. Lewis, "Egypt and Syria" (175-230) in The Cambridge History of Islam Vol. 1 (Cambridge University Press, 1970), pp. 177-8.

(33)      Cf. L. Massignon, Essai sur les origines du lexique technique de la mystique musulmane (second edn, Paris 1954), pp. 206-7, who treats Dhahabi's report as authoritative. Al-Dhahabi was professor of hadith at a madrasa (religious college) in Damascus. Cf. ibid., pp. 201 ff., emphasising the issue of Dhul Nun's editing of the tafsir.

(34)      See L. Massignon, Recueil de textes inedits concernant l'histoire de la mystique en pays d'Islam (Paris 1929), pp. 15-17.

(35)      Arberry, The Doctrine of the Sufis, p. 140.

(36)     This detail comes from a lost work of Ibn Bakuyah (d. 1037) that is mentioned in the Al-Sirr al-maknun fi manaqib Dhu'l Nun attributed to Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti (d. 1505), an Egyptian polymath of the Mamluk era. The Suyuti monograph on the life and sayings of Dhu'l Nun is covered in A. J. Arberry, "A Biography of Dhu'l Nun al-Misri" (11-27) in M. Ram and M. D. Ahmad, eds., 'Arshi Presentation Volume (New Delhi: Majlis-i Nasr-i 'Arshi, 1965). Arberry described this monograph as "a characteristic and not particularly accurate compilation of extracts from earlier sources, hardly worthy of being dignified with the name of a biography; its only claim to originality lies in his (Suyuti's) reclassification under distinct headings of the raw materials available to him. However, the extracts from lost or unpublished sources do merit bringing to light" (ibid., p. 16). Professor Arberry accordingly supplies those parts of the Arabic text which consist of quotations from Ibn Bakuyah's Akhbar al-Arifin. On the relationship between Dhu'l Nun and Sahl al-Tustari, see G. Bowering, The Mystical Vision of Existence in Classical Islam: The Quranic Hermeneutics of the Sufi Sahl at-Tustari (Berlin: Walter De Gruyter, 1980), pp. 50ff.

(37)    Massignon, Essai sur les origines (first edn, Paris 1922, pp. 184ff.; second edn, 1954, pp. 206-13), esp. p. 207, who urged that the alchemical and "cabbalistic" works of Dhu'l Nun  are apocryphal, and that the traditions pertaining to the hieroglyphs are erroneous. Massignon believed that the authentic teaching of Dhu'l Nun is preserved in his sayings and anecdotes as relayed via his Egyptian disciples and Baghdad admirers in the Sufi sources. The French scholar made no attempt to reconstruct the native Egyptian milieu. His views were closely followed by Dr. Margaret Smith, whose entry in The Encyclopaedia of Islam Vol. 2 (1965), p. 242, omits relevant Arabic sources on Dhu'l Nun such as Masudi, Al-Nadim, Said al-Andalusi, and Al-Qifti. She did, however, concede that Dhu'l Nun must have been influenced by Hellenistic teaching. Smith duly observed : "A few books on magic and alchemy, attributed to him, have survived, but his mystical teaching is found only in what has been transmitted by other writers, including his great contemporary Muhasibi" (ibid.). Cf. M. Asin Palacios, The Mystical Philosophy of Ibn Masarra (1978 trans.), pp. 165ff., whose account of Dhu'l Nun recognises the Hermetic background provided by Said al-Andalusi and others, though asserting a Christian influence. Cf. C. Brockelmann, Geschichte der Arabischen Litteratur Vol. 1 (second edn, Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1943), p. 214, who lists the works attributed to Dhu'l Nun, including the Mujarrabat, an extant manuscript on medicine, alchemy, talisman, and other subjects. On the alchemy of Dhu'l Nun, see also F. Sezgin, Geschichte Des Arabischen Schrifttums Vol. 4 (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1971), p. 273.

(38)     Quran, surah 21 verse 87. The Pickthall translation says that Dhu'n Nun here means "Lord of the Fish," meaning Jonah. See M. M. Pickthall, The Meaning of the Glorious Koran (New York: Mentor, 1953), p. 239.

(39)     A. J. Arberry, Discourses of Rumi (London: John Murray, 1961), p. 114; A. Schimmel, Mystical Dimensions of Islam (1975), p. 416.

(40)     R. A. Nicholson, trans., The Kashf al-Mahjub, p. 298.

(41)     Cf. ibid., p. 101, who renders: "Sincerity (sidq) is the sword of God on the earth: it cuts everything that it touches."

(42)     Abu Nuaym included over six hundred biographies in his Hilyat, though the majority of these are devoted to pious men and traditionists of early Islam. Rather than being a Sufi, "it is more plausible to view him (Abu Nuaym) as a hadith transmitter who incorporated the Sufis into his traditionist vision of piety." See A. T. Karamustafa, Sufism: The Formative Period (Edinburgh University Press, 2007), p. 90.

(43)    Nicholson, trans., Kashf al-Mahjub, p. 100.

(44)    Nicholson, A Literary History of the Arabs (1930), p. 386.

(45)    Arberry, The Doctrine of the Sufis, p. 138.

(46)   See H. D. Saffrey, "New Objective Links between the Pseudo-Dionysius and Proclus" (64-74) in D. J. O'Meara, ed., Neoplatonism and Christian Thought (State University of New York Press, 1982). See also B. McGinn, The Presence of God: A History of Western Christian Mysticism Vol. 1 - The Foundations of Mysticism (London: SCM Press, 1992), pp. 157ff.

(47)    F. S. Marsh, trans., The Book of the Holy Hierotheos (London: Williams & Norgate, 1927), pp. 242ff. For other references see, e. g., C. Stewart, 'Working the Earth of the Heart': The Messalian Controversy in History, Texts, and Language to AD 431 (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1991), p. 198, stating that "the Origenist monk Stephen Bar Sudaili (early sixth century) in The Book of the Holy Hierotheos uses the verb hbk to describe the eventual 'commingling' of the perfect mind (hawna) with the Good; here, however, the emphasis is on absorption or merger, for 'commingling' is a step beyond unification (hdayuta) and Stephen insists that all distinctions cease when the final 'commingling' occurs."

(48)    G. C. Anawati, "Philosophy, Theology, and Mysticism" (350-391) in J. Schacht and C.E. Bosworth, eds., The Legacy of Islam (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1974), p. 371.

(49)    A. J.  Arberry, Sufism: An Account of the Mystics of Islam (London: George Allen and Unwin, 1950), p. 52.

(50)    Nicholson, "A Historical Enquiry Concerning the Origin and Development of Sufism," Jnl of the Royal Asiatic Society (1906), 309ff., also allowing some credit to Gnosticism and conceding a possibility of "Persian and Indian ideas" having influenced Sufism. Nicholson had earlier drawn parallels between Plotinus and Rumi, though without insisting on any direct influence. However, he did assert that "sufi metaphysics are cast throughout in the mould which Alexandria aptly contrived." See idem, Selected Poems from the Divani Shamsi Tabriz (1898; repr. Cambridge University Press, 1977), pp. xxxff. The preoccupation of Professor Nicholson with Neoplatonism reflects his training in classicism, prior to his transition to Islamic studies.

(51)    A. M. Mukhtar, "On the Survival of the Byzantine Administration in Egypt during the First Century of the Arab Rule," Acta Orientalia: Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae (Budapest 1973) 27:309-19, pp. 311-12, 316.

(52)    Nicholson, The Mystics of Islam (London 1914), pp. 12-13.

(53)    A translation has long been available in M. de Slane, trans., Ibn Khallikan's Biographical Dictionary Vol. 1(Paris: Oriental Translation Fund of Great Britain and Ireland, 1842), pp. 291ff.

(54)    These quotations come from the article by N.S. Fatemi in L. F. Rushbrook Williams, ed., Sufi Studies: East and West (London: Octagon Press, 1973), p. 51.

(55)     M. A. Palacios, The Mystical Philosophy of Ibn Masarra and his Followers, trans. E. H. Douglas and H. W. Yoder (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1978), p. 165. This book was first published at Madrid in 1914.

(56)     Ibid., p. 166. The Spanish scholar also cited an interpretation that the Sufi meaning of the name Dhu'l Nun is "one endowed with the universal knowledge by divine illumination" (ibid., p. 165 note 2).

(57)     Ibid., pp. 165-6, 167-8.

(58)     See further H. Ziai, Knowledge and Illumination: A Study of Suhrawardi's Hikmat al-Ishraq (Atlanta, Georgia: Scholars Press, 1990), p. 21 note 4; J. Walbridge, The Leaven of the Ancients: Suhrawardi and the Heritage of the Greeks (State University of New York Press, 2000), pp. 29ff., and referring to Suhrawardi as "a Sufi of sorts" (ibid., p. 30), though the main emphasis relates to Islamic Neoplatonism.

(59)      J. Walbridge, The Wisdom of the Mystic East: Suhrawardi and Platonic Orientalism (State University of New York Press, 2001), p. 44.

(60)     Walbridge, Wisdom of the Mystic East, pp. 44-5. See also G. Fowden, The Egyptian Hermes: A Historical Approach to the Late Pagan Mind (Cambridge University Press, 1986). See also P. Kingsley, Ancient Philosophy, Mystery, and Magic: Empedocles and Pythagorean Tradition (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1995), pp. 389-90, stating that "writing little more, and perhaps even less, than a generation after Dhu'l Nun himself, either in the late ninth or the very early tenth century, his [Ibn Suwaid's] list of published works - all of them on the subject of alchemy, as their titles clearly show - includes a 'Book of Refutation of the Accusation Against Dhu'l Nun al-Misri' (Kitab sarf al-tawahhum 'an dhi-al-nun al-misri). It was this same Ibn Suwaid who... was almost certainly the author of the Mushaf al-jama'a: the Arabic prototype of the Turba Philosophorum." On the Turba, see ibid., pp. 56ff. Concerning Egyptian alchemy, Kingsley interprets the evidence in terms of "very strongly implies the existence of a continuing and unbroken tradition in the place (Akhmim) from the third and fourth centuries AD down into the early Islamic period" (ibid., p. 59).

(61)      B. P. Copenhaver, Hermetica (Cambridge University Press, 1992), p. xxxviii.

(62)      Ibid.. In the same quoted passage, Zosimos refers to Zoroaster as an advocate of magic. This is a typical error of the Greek transmission concerning the Iranian prophet Zarathushtra, who was misrepresented in Greek lore as a magician.

(63)    Walbridge, Wisdom of the Mystic East, p. 46.

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