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lyssala · 10 months

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The Sun & The Moon: On the FFXVI Ending

Throwing my thoughts on the ending into the void.

Aka I keep seeing posts about the ending so I need to type out my thoughts to validate myself.

For reference, we played on release and did two full play throughs.

First of all, I am a happy ending person. I want desperately to find the happiness because there was so much suffering so much loss. Saving the world or not, the thought of Clive having come so close to his own happy ending, of having the family and the love he never got to have, so damn close and then still ending up dying alone on a beach leaving the people waiting for him wondering if he would ever come back to them seems so cruel.

But, Lyssa, you played XV too, and Noctis legitimately sacrificed himself in the end to save the world. You’re right, he did, and that ending still makes me ugly cry because I also didn’t think it was fair that he had to do that. The thing were XV and XVI differ is, we see Noctis in the after with Luna, in their wedding attire, finally together. It’s immensely bittersweet, but we see them at peace. We do not get that in XVI SO point by point let’s GO.

(Warning for spoilers, including character death, in other Final Fantasy games as well)

Why I Don’t Think We Can Assume Any of the Three are Dead

1. The Ancient Rule of Storytelling: No body, you say? THEY AIN’T DEAD.

Usually used when a villain “is defeated” but then they can never find a body - guess what, Luffy is going to have to beat their ass YET again. Final Fantasy has never shied away from character death. From Minwu (FFII) to Tellah (FFIV) to Aerith (FFVII) to Zack (FFVII:CC) to Haurchefant (FFXIV) to Noctis (FFXV), heck even other character death in XVI.

Dion to me is the iffiest one, and I say it with a heavy heart because I loved Dion. He fell early and he had death flags on him BUT we didn’t even see him hit the ground so I still standby that if Clive could survive falling from Origin, Dion could too.

Joshua we actually did see die, and it was terrible - both when it happened and when Clive went back to mourn his brother (again for that matter and thanks I’m crying again). The thing is, we also explicitly watch Clive use Phoenix’s power to heal Joshua. Yeah we don’t see him wake up, but literally what was the point of that action if Joshua was just gonna…you know still be dead. They could have just left him as he was. The whole purpose of showing that action, imo, was to finally give Clive the chance to save his brother, which was all he wanted for so much of his life. I don’t believe that was done as just “well you tried but he really dead, bro.” To me it was to show, no, Joshua has a chance to live the life he always wanted too.

Clive, despite all his dang death flags, is still the most secure to me because the last time we see him, he’s still alive. We know he survived the fall, we know he was conscious on the beach, we only saw the curse spread to his hand. If they really wanted to hint he would die there, we easily could have seen the curse spreading to his face. We didn’t though. He was tired, and weak but he was alive. They made an effort to show him alive. If they truly wanted an ambiguous ending they didn’t even need to show him on the beach, just showing Origin fall would be enough. They didn’t though. They showed the man alive, calling out to Jill, not as apology for breaking his promise but a “I can see the moon same as you, I’m still here.”

2. The Ding Dang Themes of the Game

We spend the whole game determined to fight fate, and while yes, fate was defeated when Ultima was defeated, because the human will won…then didn’t because the man who was determined to fight and escape those binds still ended up lost those everyone who loves him…which was part of the fate he was trying to escape? Final Fantasy games have had dark elements before, and they’ve been heartbreakingly sad. They’ve shown loss of all sorts some self sacrifice, and some because the world can be just so cruel. However, once thing Final Fantasy isn’t is loss without hope.

Noctis got to say goodbye to his best friends (yes I am crying again don’t you dare mention Stand by Me in my presence) because he knew what was coming and they knew what was coming. It gutted me, but they all knew and had come to terms with it. It was Noctis’ choice to walk in there knowing he was not coming back. Clive was not the same. He didn’t say goodbye, he said, I’m coming back. While everyone knew there was a risk which is why it was so emotional to say goodbye, he had a life he wanted to return to, one he spoke of returning to. It was never, “You’re coming back right?” And then they skirt around giving a firm answer because they just don’t know. Clive was firm about it, he was coming back, it was his will to come back and guess what won against Ultimia? You guessed it, human will.

Having Clive die alone on a beach after all of that? After all he went through and after all he still wanted? That to me is just cruel, and Final Fantasy has never been cruel. Ren also made the good point that if Clive was to die, Joshua would have fallen with him, so it ended in a reversal of beginning with Joshua watching Clive die instead of the other way around. That didn’t happen either though. He was on the beach, again, still alive (see point 1 as a reminder), additionally, if he thought he was dying, I’d imagine he’d be apologizing to Jill for breaking his promise. In fact that’s what I SWORE he was going to do, but he didn’t. His will to survive was still intact when we left him which to me fits far more with the theme of this game then dying alone on a beach.

3. The Sun and the Moon (It’s Clive and Jill, It’s Just Literally Them)

So yeah I know that the sun and moon imagery is usually used to describe star crossed lovers, never meant to be as the sun and moon rotate. The game already proved that was untrue, they were always meant to be. By all odds they survived and somehow found one another again.

Jill, the moon of course, always said it was because of her prayer to Metia, that every time she prayed for him to return to her, Metia granted her prayer. I say this as someone who grew up religious but now am not, Jill believed it I’m sure but I think it was Jill. Love has also been a huge theme in Final Fantasy, and Jill’s heart filled prayers to keep Clive safe, always had. Not necessarily because a god deemed it so (again, defying gods a huge Final Fantasy theme lol) but her complete and sincere love for Clive, that always kept him safe to come home to her. She prayed for him as he was leaving for origin, just as heart felt as she always had. Why would that fail now the time she probably desired it more than any other time? That also seems so cruel. For him to be torn from her when they were so close to finally being able to have the life they dreamed of together. What purpose does that serve? It wouldn’t except for Jill to have yet another thing in her life to break her heart and leave her to pick up the pieces. I think she would, for Clive’s memory, but again, it feels like loss for no reason but loss. Jill deserves her happy ending too.

You find out later on even more so why Jill cherished the moon, because it brought the sunrise (or you know Clive in the metaphor here) and with the sun the promise the Clive would always come for her. One he never broke. They literally went out of their way to say “the sunrise meant you’d always come for me, I know this.” It was a direct setup for the ending. It was her seeing the star she always prayed on for Clive flicker out, and in that moment I think she did lose all hope because that was the one thing she could always count on to bring him home (to which again, not a god, but her love that brought him home). She is distraught (and so was I so we have that in common LOL) but then, the sun rises, and she smiles. It’s hope. It’s her hope because Clive has never broken a promise to her, and the sunrise has always brought him to her. I have no reason to believe the sunrise didn’t bring him home to her like it always has. Not a single point in this game has given me reason to believe it so why would I?

4. They Did the Thing! The Name of the Game!

A smaller point but one none the less. I sure hope you all played every single side-quest. One particular one, leaves you with a quill to add to Clive’s wall of treasures; one with the sole purpose of when (not if) Clive puts his sword down, that he writes his story. What do we see in the after credits? Literally, a book that is telling his story. Idk how more clear they gotta be that Clive is gonna be okay (tbf I WISH they would have just told me he was gonna be okay too LOL)

Granted, Joshua Rosfield is the author to which, it really could have been him writing Clive’s story in his absence or it could have been Clive and using the name to memorialize his brother’s name. Or it could have been the both of them and they used Joshua’s name because Clive is content living his life behind the scenes. He’s never wanted attention or praise. I don’t think he ever would have used his own name.

Additionally, the ending lines that equates to as my journey ends another one begins to me never meant journey = life. His journey was over, he did what he set out to do. The new journey? Traveling the realms with his wife in a world without the burdens of magic and doing what they do best, help the people who need it.

5. Doggy Knows Best

And finally, my last point is, Torgal knows what’s up. Technically, this is Ren’s point so I give him the credit here but animals, especially Torgal who is more than just a dog (literally an Eikon himself bonded to Jill and Clive, something acknowledged in the game), know when their master is hurt or worse. We’ve seen Torgal when one of them are hurt or in danger or not coming home. Yet at the end of the game, when Jill is absolutely breaking Torgal simply howls.

You know where else he did that? When he was trying to find Clive after Phoenix Gate and he would sit and howl. They were already bonded, he knew Clive (and Jill) were alive but he didn’t know where so he howled for his people until he could find them. It’s the same thing he does at the end of the game. He knows Clive is alive out there, and they are just separated but they’ll find another again because just like Jill, Torgal has no reason to believe otherwise.

And honestly I’m going to believe the dog.

Final Thoughts…For Now Cause I Always Have Thoughts its the ADHD

If you read all this, I hope it brought you some peace <3 I don’t believe a cop out everyone died ending is indicative to the wonderful storytelling this team has brought us in FFXIV. If anything, it reminds me of the ending of A Realm Reborn when you are convinced all the Scions are dead and then ope nope they’re fine just scattered and we’ll find them yeah SOUND FAMILIAR LOL I think they left it open to let people come to their own conclusions but in my heart of hearts I believe they had no intention to let Clive die on that beach because nothing in the story leads me to that conclusion.

If they try to tell me otherwise, well then I’ll go full denial LOL but unless Yoshi-P calls me up and says girl stop you’re wrong, I’ll continue to push my Clive finally gets his happy ending and travels the realms with Jill like he promised her <3 (ONE MORE THING: why the heck would they have Jill just be like mmmm think I wanna leave this realm when its over, lets see the world if they had no future content planned YOU CAN’T FOOL ME she could have easily said anything but she said something that would directly give us more content okay I’m done lol)

#clive rosfield #jill warrick #ffxvi #final fantasy XVI #cliji #tagging the ship because their relationship has a huge impact on why I believe what I do #ffxvi spoilers #final fantasy xvi spoilers #I mean I talk all about the ending so very spoilers #I did this mainly for me #because I need to validate my peace lol #but I hope maybe it can bring some others peace too

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nonranghaes · 1 year

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mentions: food + chris is implied to be slightly older than reader + mentions of reader having chubby cheeks.

sometimes your boyfriend simply chooses to be your biggest tormentor. exhibit a: he’s been teasing you about the (’cute’ in his words) way you eat strawberries for the past several minutes.

“i’m just saying!” he says with a laugh, watching you from the couch. “you’re just so cute about it!”

you still don’t get it, and he hasn’t elaborated in the slightest. you think it might be in the same way he finds his other friends closer to your age cute when they so much as breathe sometimes--like felix. then again, you’ve seen the way felix acts sometimes, and it is, indeed, cute. but all you’re doing is eating some strawberries you cut the tops off of, and you aren’t doing it any cuter than how a person normally eats strawberries. you’re literally just eating them. simple as that.

you pick up the bowl and move over to sit with him instead. “just try to explain.”

and he manages to quell his giggles as he hugs the pillow he’s been holding tighter against his chest. “okay,” he says. “you love strawberries.”

this is a fact. most people know it about you, but you’d say they’re probably your favorite fruit--or among the top of your list if nothing else.

“so you get this really cute look on your face when you eat a really good strawberry,” he says. “also... these,” he reach out, pinching one of your cheeks, and he chuckles again when you grimace. “automatically make you cute. it’s like when jisung eats and his cheeks puff out.”

you swat at his hand, “so you’re saying i look like a squirrel.”

“no!” he laughs, “i’m saying all of it just makes you... cuter.” he paws through the air until he catches your hand in his. “it’s like when you say i’m cute.”

“because you are!”

“i don’t get it--you say it when i’m not even doing anything!”

“because you’re cute!”

he giggles, pulling the bowl of strawberries aside as he ditches the pillow in favor for you. “then i guess,” he places the quickest peck against your lips, eyes crinkling as he smiles hard, “we just have to agree that we’re both cute.”

even if you don’t get it... you think you can agree to that one.

#nonranghaes.thoughts #stray kids x reader #skz x reader #stray kids imagine #skz imagine #stray kids x you #skz x you #chris bang fluff #chris bang x reader #Chris Bang x you #bang chan x reader #bang chan fluff #bang chan x you #nonranghaes.skz #hi i havent rly been here since ive been posting a lot over on my main writing blog #but ive had this thought in my head for the past day haha and i really wanted to write something short n cute #i was thinkin abt the way he like. wiggles??? i guess when he eats something good and its rly cute #... mainly bc i did the same thing yesterday when i ate a rly good strawberry haha you can see where the inspo is all coming from #he is so endearing to me fr

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