I’ve been thinking about this for a couple days and the original ending of the show is great and perfect and it Had to Be That Way with Aang sparing Ozai’s life
But I really want Sokka to kill Ozai
I want him to one day find out exactly how bad he messed Zuko (and Azula) up and I want him not to be able to take it anymore and I want him to just snap and go to Ozai and kill him
And I want Zuko to see it and I want him to see the blood dripping from Sokka’s hands and I want him to smile and feel such intense relief that the man who’s always held so much power over him is finally gone but the I want him to be overwhelmed by a Terrible sense of Guilt that Sokka felt like he had to do that for him
And I want Sokka, King of Repression, to look up over Ozai’s corpse, soaked with the man’s blood, and smile. Because now Zuko is safe. And Sokka will never have a single regret.
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The whole discourse about the privacy/secrecy/support thing has been sitting with me for a few days (I mean other than it always does to a certain degree) thanks to all the excellent discussion happening and I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said a million times before, but I think what we're seeing and what we're going to learn (e.g. from TTPD) is that it wasn't just the support issue, but how it was shown/handled.
We've all gone out of our way to show that introversion =/= lack of support. Someone can be shy, reserved, etc. and still show up for their partner, whether in public or at home. To chalk any of the differences up to the clash between introversion and extroversion is unfair to folks who count themselves among either tbh.
@thisisctrying said something the other day that hit the nail on the head about how if that support had been offered in private, there very well may not have been a Joever to begin with, or at least not at this point in time. (Sorry for loosely paraphrasing, and for namedropping you! Long time listener, first time poster.)
If this were a case where the "shy" partner said, "I am really uncomfortable with the spotlight personally and do not want to court it, but I will support you in your ambitions and offer you whatever you need to make them happen and make the glare bearable," I suspect that would have gone a long way to making Taylor feel seen and comfortable in pursuing her goals in the way that she now has. Again, that might have been more akin to the balance that seemed to have been struck around 2019 from what we can see, but even speaking in a general sense, there are lots of couples out there, celebrity or not, that have similar approaches where there are highly driven people and busy careers involved.
(A famous example being Dolly Parton's marriage. Tbh I know next to nothing about her and Carl, but she's always heralded as an example in this regard, because her husband is famously uncomfortable with the spotlight and hasn't accompanied her to public events in decades, but she's said that she never minded that because that was always work to her, and what was important was that he supported her in pursuing all her career goals and basically ensured she had a place to call home to return to at the end of the day.)
We're kind of in a brave new world with her current relationship because it felt like, at least at the start, we were maybe watching her figure out her boundaries in real time as to what she was comfortable with or not and adjust accordingly. Like so many have said, I fully believe the extreme privacy thing was initially driven by herself and her experiences in 2016, and she needed that quiet time to recover from all of the things and figure out how to exist in the world again.
Stating the obvious, it seemed like eventually privacy was equated with secrecy, turning the relationship and the celebrity into the elephant in the room and something to never be spoken of to the outside world. People are free to choose whatever works best for themselves and their relationships, and for some the separate public lives might work, but the “kept me like a secret but I kept you like an oath” theme is all over her work and it’s clear that it’s a sore spot for her, because she’s been made to feel shame just for the life she leads so many times in the past.
What I’m trying to say is that it’s pretty obvious something Not Great was happening behind the scenes, which didn’t just amount to “she wanted to be a public celebrity and he wanted to be a private hermit.” (Also, in case anyone forgot, this is a person who also chose a public-facing career who also has to engage in press for it, but I digress.) As her career reached new heights post-folklore, if she had the support at home to do all the things without judgment and with encouragement, and in turn offer the same support to her partner, she may have very well lived just fine with that, not unlike Dolly Parton’s case.
By reading between the lines in all the press since, as well as comments on tour and general ~vibes~ with TTPD teasers, it seems like one of the issues was that that was likely not the case. There was all the stuff that we saw — the reticence to acknowledge each other in the media (particularly on one side), the lack of public support even at events at which they were both in attendance for their respective jobs, the great lengths they went to not to be photographed together at events they attended yet no problem taking pictures with other friends and coworkers, the jobs that separated them, the withdrawing from the public even for work accomplishments, etc. Which could all be manageable if a couple chooses to do so together and are not inherently a sign of trouble in themselves.
But what we’re seeing now I think is a reflection of the things we weren’t seeing then, and it seems to indicate some very deep hurt. (I know, call me Captain Obvious.) And like so many have been saying, it feels likely that that part of that hurt is rooted in that very lack of private support where a person would expect it from their partner. Obviously as a Taylor fan blog I’m going to be more inclined to understand her side of a story, but tbh, it’s also because… this is sooooooo common, and something I’ve experienced in my friend group. (@taylortruther is right when she says most breakups are the same one way or another lol.)
One partner is resentful of the other’s success, or resentful that the other’s priorities begin to evolve as new experiences unlock new goals, or feels the other’s ambitions are not worthy of pursuit, and coupled with perhaps their own struggles in the same domain, it’s easy to see where that can chip away at the other partner’s morale and faith in the relationship. I know I’m just speculating here, but I also don’t think it’s totally unfounded. (Again, because a) I’m picking up what she’s putting down and b) it happens to sooooooo many women even among us dull normals.)
With all the pointed mentions about how much Taylor feels supported in her current relationship and how she in turn loves to offer the same show of support to not only her partner but other loved ones, how she’s stepped out more in the last year to a whole host of events, how she’s mentioned feeling like she locked herself away for years and she’s just proud of her partner and happy she can show up for him even if the chaos around it is unsettling, it paints a picture of what perhaps was happening before last year.
To feel like you’re all alone in carrying the weight of the relationship (or burden of it), of twisting yourself into knots to accommodate the other person’s boundaries (or insecurities) but not feeling reciprocity for your own has to be so painful. (The idea that it may have been even darker and to have a partner not only be unreceptive to your own needs but even perhaps resentful/dismissive/belittling of them is even more painful to think of. I guess we’ll find out when TTPD comes out if that was the case, too.)
At a certain point, that lack of acknowledgement will force your hand to be able to reclaim yourself. And it feels like the further removed Taylor in particular is from it, the more she moves from being sad about the life she felt she gave up by leaving, to angry at the life she felt she was giving up by staying. Especially being in a relationship now where it seems like everything comes much easier, where she can be open about the person she’s with and show up for them, all the stuff that seemed as challenging as climbing Mount Everest in her past is nothing more than a molehill at best in her current life.
TL;DR: I don’t think it’s privacy that inherently spells doom for a celebrity relationship like this; it’s the mutual support and respect that does. If Taylor had felt that in the later years of her previous relationship, I think we could be seeing a different, though not necessarily unfulfilled, person right now in 2024, who’d be happy on tour but whose personal life would look a little different. But it seems like by losing that support she lost parts of herself, and we’ve seen her reclaim that in spades in the last year, and perhaps to degrees she didn’t even realize she could from before all the Bad Stuff started happening in her young adulthood.
I know this was extremely long-winded and unnecessary, especially about total strangers we only know through scraps fed through the media, but I just always bristle at this idea that issues like these boil down to “personality differences,” as though one person wants to live in a city and the other on a remote island, or some shit like that. The whole support (and gender tbh) issue is one that’s just very close to my heart because again, I have seen it play out with so many of my friends in long term relationships and marriages and I just think people in relationships (and women in particular in some circles) deserve better than to feel like they’re being, well, tolerated.
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hey seth! i'm just a random guy that's been really into sunny for the past year, and i always love your tweets. you, loren, and anna have been on my fyp a lot the past weekend, and i know a lot of people are being assholes about it, but it's genuinely so heartwarming to see. you three definitely deserve it and are the best kind of people for this to happen to. you always come off as respectful of rcg. hope you can pass the message along to them both too! have a great day
Thank you for the kind message, I really really appreciate it and so do Anna and Loren! Glad you got into the show :)
Honestly I get people are lashing out/shit talking because it does seem kinda weird to witness through a screen how much we’ve been able to interact with them and the interactions we’ve had. I know people are jealous, too (as in have told me they are, and I was certainly jealous last year when Rob didn’t do any events in NYC bc he was sick but did them in Philly a few days later) and I totally get that. Whatever the reason for people being assholes is, I don’t really take it personally. They don’t know the full story of literally anything that happened, they’re just watching through a screen and making their own assumptions of before, after, and in between all these clips they’re seeing, and trying to find something to justify how they feel. The claims that I’ve been ‘stalking’ them or ‘overstepping boundaries’ are genuinely just funny to me when every place we’ve met them has been an event that was publicly posted to Instagram/Facebook well in advance.
(And I’m not gonna talk on Twitter about certain details of this, but I feel like I can probably disclose here that the Four Walls people approached me to tell me/give me things and not the other way around. Their socials dmed me, followed me, Rob followed me, etc. I had literally no sway in them choosing to do those things or introducing themselves to me in person and organically engaging in conversations with me.)
We want to share our interactions with RCG on social media because we think most people appreciate and enjoy their interactions with fans (and also the small amounts of Sunny info we got), and that’s it. I don’t need to share or brag about anything. I would be perfectly content keeping everything that happened this weekend to myself (I very much avoid otherwise sharing my face or voice on social media, so I genuinely have to overcome that insecurity to even be able to share these things), but we know the majority of fans like to see this stuff and that’s why we have been posting everything.
Your message (and others i’ve received) means a lot. I’m glad the majority of people are enjoying our interactions with them and I really appreciate the time you spend to send this ask, really! And I’ll be back to posting regularly scheduled actual Sunny content very shortly :)
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Why Orpheus turned around
Something i’ve been seeing lately is people saying that because Orpheus turned around to Eurydice, that means he doesn’t love her. And that, my friends, is WRONG! The reason Orpheus turns around is BECAUSE HE LOVES HER!
When looking at the tragedy of Orpheus and Eurydice in general some things never change:
Eurydice dies and goes to the Underworld
Orpheus goes to the Underworld to convince Hades (sometimes named Pluto in certain adaptations) to bring Eurydice back to life
Hades decides to fulfill his request but on the condition that Orpheus walks in front of Eurydice and does not turn around
when Orpheus and Eurydice are so close to being free, Orpheus turns around and Eurydice is sent back to the Underworld.
The reason Orpheus turns around varies from adaptations.
For example one adaptation describes Hades telling Orpheus not to turn around until the sun fully hits his face. When getting back to the Earth with Eurydice, Orpheus notes how the sun has not risen yet, then he hears Eurydice trip behind him. Without thinking he turns around and catches her in his arms. He sees Eurydice’s face in the light of the stars, then she fades back into the Underworld. This is one of the most basic of examples of how much Orpheus loves Eurydice. His first instinct when hearing her fall was to catch her, unintentionally disregarding the rules set in place by Hades to make sure his lover is okay.
Another adaptation begins the same way, however this time Hades tells Orpheus not to turn around until they are both fully out of the Underworld. Orpheus cannot hear Eurydice or feel her behind him at all in this version. Orpheus is so anxious he is walking back alone and abandoning Eurydice that once he exits the Underworld, he turns around, and sees Eurydice still in the Underworld about to cross. Like the last tale, she returns to the Underworld. He loves her so much that as soon as he is able to turn around he does so just to see if she is there, but when he does he loses Eurydice again.
A more modern version of the tragedy is the musical Hadestown, the era of this retelling is based on the Great Depression, which changes the way the characters and their motives are presented. In this version Orpheus and Eurydice still fall in love but Orpheus blinded by his determination to finish his song, which will bring back Spring, that he fails to notice Eurydice calling for him to help her. Hades finds her and offers her a chance to work in the Underworld/Hadestown. Eurydice, seeing no other way to escape the poverty she’s in, accepts and signs a contract giving herself over to Hades to work. When Eurydice sees Hadestown she begins to regret her choice. Orpheus, finally noticing Eurydice is gone, travels to Hadestown to find her and bring her home. Upon his arrival he pleads with Hades and Persephone to let him bring Eurydice home. Hades refuses, sending his workers to attack Orpheus and send him back. Orpheus won’t go though, instead he unites Hades’s workers to revolt. Hades, with persuasion from Persephone, gives Orpheus one more chance to convince him. Orpheus then plays his finished song for Hades, it’s a song Hades used to sing to Persephone to express his love for her. Hades, moved by his song, dances with Persephone. Orpheus then asks Hades if they can go and Hades says “I don’t know”. The Three Fates then express Hades’s worries, if he doesn’t let them go he is cruel and unjust, but if he does let them go his workers will view him as “spineless” and lose respect. With this in mind Hades comes up with a solution, where they can go but one condition; Orpheus must walk in front and Eurydice must walk behind him. If they make it back home without Orpheus turning around Eurydice is free, if not she goes back to Hadestown. Orpheus expresses his fears of this condition, afraid this is a trick. They begin to leave. While Orpheus trusts Eurydice to be there, he cannot trust himself. He begins to believe he is alone and was tricked by Hades. It’s this doubt and anxiety that makes him turn around too soon. While Orpheus makes it out of Hadestown, Eurydice is still a step away. So they fail.
Orpheus loves Eurydice so much he turns around to guarantee she’s really there and that he wasn’t tricked, but this was their downfall.
In all these adaptations Orpheus is so in love with Eurydice that he disregards the conditions set by Hades. He turns around because he is anxious she isn’t there with him. He turns around because he is worried about her. He turns around because he loves her too much to risk her never coming home. That is why he turns around too soon or to see her face or just to catch her when she falls. It’s all because of the love they have for each other.
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*Everyone is standing around a broken coffee maker*
Rise! Don: So. Who broke it? I’m not mad, I just want to know.
Everyone:…
Rise! Raph: …I did. I broke it.
Rise! Don: No. No you didn’t. Ralph?
2012! Ralph: Don’t look at me. Look at Raphael.
2003! Raphael: What?! I didn’t break it.
2012! Ralph: Huh, that’s weird. How’d ya even know it was broken?
2003! Raphael: Because it’s sitting right in front of us and it’s broken!
2012! Ralph: Suspicious!
2003! Raphael: NO IT’S NOT!
1987! Raphie: If it matters, probably not, but El was the last one to use it.
2014! El: Liar! I don’t even drink that crap!
1987! Raphie: Oh really? Then what were you doing by the coffee cart earlier?
2014! El: I use the wooden stirrers to push back my cuticles, EVERYONE KNOWS THAT RAPHIE!
Rise! Raph: Okay, let’s not fight. I broke it. Let me pay for it, Don.
Rise! Don: NO! Who broke it?!
Everyone:…
1987! Raphie: Don…Ralph’s been awfully quiet.
2012! Ralph: REALLY?!
*Everyone starts arguing*
Rise! Don, to his twin: I broke it. I burned my hand so I punched it.
Rise! Don: I predict 10 minutes from now they’ll be at each other’s throats with warpaint and a pig head on a stick.
Rise! Don: Good. It was getting a little chummy around here.
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