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#endgame themes
pendovah · 4 months
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With each grave I think of loss and I can only think of you. And I couldn't measure it.
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hylialeia · 10 months
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I've really soured on the whole "if these female characters end up in any position other than one of feudal power and influence it means GRRM is perpetuating the harmful idea that women should be punished for their ambition" because while I am aware that is a rather disappointing and common takeaway in fantasy (and other) series in general, I am ALSO aware the strongest most consistent hammer-you-over-the-head-with-it motif across asoiaf thus far has been "FEUDALISM BAD" which is sort of hard to keep impactful when your endgame is "and then they ruled happily ever after and were so good at it nothing bad ever happened again". y'know.
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radiantmists · 10 months
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reading animorphs sequentially instead of in whatever random order you can get your hands on them is such a trip because you can see these kids getting progressively better at war and worse at being happy, you can see how traumatic events from one book echo into the next ones but never quite get dealt with because these kids have no real way to take care of their mental health, you can see their relationships deepening but simultaneously gaining friction and faultlines as they learn just how far they'd go for each other but also how far they'd go in general...
obviously this series was meant to be episodic in nature, and i actually think that might be the better way to first encounter it, but the arc of the series in publication order is extremely well-crafted
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satsuha · 2 months
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naeleen 60min challenge (took ~80min)
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mikoran · 1 year
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stranger things is a very “show, not tell” type show. were never told explicitly that max is suicidal, or that billy was being racist to lucas, or that nancys problems at work were because she was a woman (although they got veryyyy close). were shown these things and pick up on them instead of the show telling us whats going on
this is especially true with relationships. lumax, jopper, and jancy all never say they love each other, but if you ask anyone out there if lucas loves max, then theyll tell you of course he does, how could he not? everyone can just see how much they care for each other, we dont need them to say it
so why is it that with mileven, they have to have mike have this grand declaration of love to eleven for both her and the audience to believe he loves her? why is it that the only ones who need the verbal confirmation is them, when every other couple follows the “show, not tell” format? why is it that the only other couple that follows the verbal confirmation issue is stancy, who didnt end up together?
this whole “show, not tell” thing almost reminds me of something, what was it… something about not saying it, but not having to?
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Something rubbed against his leg beneath the table. Jon saw red eyes staring up at him. “Hungry again?” he asked. There was still half a honeyed chicken in the center of the table. Jon reached out to tear off a leg, then had a better idea. He knifed the bird whole and let the carcass slide to the floor between his legs. Ghost ripped into it in savage silence. His brothers and sisters had not been permitted to bring their wolves to the banquet, but there were more curs than Jon could count at this end of the hall, and no one had said a word about his pup. He told himself he was fortunate in that too. His eyes stung. Jon rubbed at them savagely, cursing the smoke. He swallowed another gulp of wine and watched his direwolf devour the chicken. Dogs moved between the tables, trailing after the serving girls. One of them, a black mongrel bitch with long yellow eyes, caught a scent of the chicken. She stopped and edged under the bench to get a share. Jon watched the confrontation. The bitch growled low in her throat and moved closer. Ghost looked up, silent, and fixed the dog with those hot red eyes. The bitch snapped an angry challenge. She was three times the size of the direwolf pup. Ghost did not move. He stood over his prize and opened his mouth, baring his fangs. The bitch tensed, barked again, then thought better of this fight. She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride. Ghost went back to his meal. Jon grinned and reached under the table to ruffle the shaggy white fur. The direwolf looked up at him, nipped gently at his hand, then went back to eating.
Jon I, AGOT
It's interesting that GRRM would dedicate several paragraphs to a seemingly unimportant exchange between a boy, his wolf, and an unfriendly third party. But there's just something about this passage that has continued to nag at me for years since I first read it because, considering how heavy handed GRRM was with the foreshadowing in AGOT, this feels important.
Jon is sitting at table full of squires - aka would be knights. We don't really know who they are or what families they belong to, but it's safe to assume that they come from a certain level of privilege; this is considering the fact that it cannot be financially easy to be a squire. And these boys already have a slew of tales detailing all their previous knightly exploits regarding "battle and bedding and the hunt" which suggests that they have some capital. So you have boys who will soon be men. And they will, presumably, become men of some power.
These lads eat their fill of the chicken until only half remains, which Jon then gives to Ghost. The direwolf's name is not so important here but what he represents is. Throughout the series, we're told that Ghost is reminiscent of the weirwood trees (because of his red eyes and white fur). He's stated to be of and from the Old Gods and since he's a personification of the weirwoods, he might as well be one of them. It's almost as if Jon is presenting whatever is left on the table to the Old Gods (Ghost). He lets them devour his offerings while he silently watches. And the motif of watching is so interesting here because it's kind of like Jon takes on a stewardship role - to watch over land/people/etc. He oversees Ghost eating the chicken, so he's overseeing whatever has been given to the Old Gods. This is not new imagery to his arc. As a brother of the Night's Watch and eventually its leader, we have several instances where he leads people to adopting the Old Gods in some fashion. In ADWD, several recruits swear their vows to the Old Gods while he watches on as their Lord Commander. The Old Gods are also primarily of the North and we're told that Jon has more of the north in him than his brothers; interesting that this also includes Bran. So perhaps whatever is being offered to the Old Gods relates to the North.
We must also note that Jon initially thinks to give only a small portion, a leg, before pivoting and providing the entire thing. It feels to me a bit like the process of carving up a kingdom or something similar. The lords (represented by the squires) take what they want and leave aside what they don't; or perhaps they have eaten to their fill and can take no more. Then when his time comes, Jon first considers a small piece of land/group of people before eventually absorbing all of whatever is left behind. The concept of carving up a kingdom rings harder considering that we have several callbacks to the ideals of kingship in this chapter. Robert, Jaime, Tyrion, and even Mance though we don't know it yet, all play into this. And then there's the aspect of Jon letting the chicken slip between his legs which evokes birth/fatherhood, a very curious choice when GRRM could've just had Jon place the chicken on the floor. So land/people are carved up and Jon then uses whatever is left to birth his own type of kingdom. And this kingdom is one for the Old Gods.
This also touches on something that has been quite prevalent throughout Jon's arc. It's the concept of accepting the "others" or "those left over" who live apart from the accepted social norms. Arya (a tomboy), Sam (a gender non-confirming boy), the Night's Watch (criminals, extra sons, and men who have no future left or place to go), and even the wildlings are all examples of this. And Jon takes on a leadership/paternal role to every single one of them. He looks after them as a leader would/should. Sometimes, in the case of Arya and the wildlings, he's equated to a king. He's a steward/shepherd/king. There's messianic undertones to this:
Come unto me, all you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30).
If you're familiar with Judeo-Christian tradition, you'll know that Jesus is often personified as one who spent the majority his time among the outcasts. The idea is that he came to save them too and that anew kingdom (or new earth depending on your translation) would spring up after the end of the world where he would forever rule as king; which presents the idea of a final king after the earthly ones are done away with. Now GRRM isn't so heavy handed with Christian allusions as other authors out there, but he does have a Catholic background and Jon is so overtly a Jesus figure. And in Revelation, Jesus is king and god at the very end....
One last thing: the mention of the mongrel who challenges Jon has always been rather interesting but confusing to me. A mongrel doesn't really relate to one specific type of dog. But it's interesting that Jon notes several roaming about where he is. They follow the serving girls who carry the food to be offered. Mongrels are used to describe antagonist/villainous groups in ASOIAF. Sometimes, they're used to describe slavers in Essos. But what's interesting is that most of the time, they're used to describe Euron's Ironborn especially in Victorian's POV. So I don't think the mongrel who challenges Ghost is a supernatural threat of death (i.e., the Others) but rather a human one. They represent those who are called to the scene once the lords have finished playing their games. It almost feels like a feast for (carrion) crows....
But it doesn't really matter because this mongrel isn't much of a challenge for Ghost. Though the mongrel is much larger, the direwolf is able to fend her off very effortlessly. Given that "mongrel" is used to describe Ironborn raiders, could this exchange between Ghost and the mongrel point to reavers or sea raiders who rise and fail challenge Jon kingdom? There is a historical King Jon Stark who did this....
When sea raiders landed in the east, Jon drove them out and built a castle, the Wolf's Den, at the mouth of the White Knife, so as to be able to defend the mouth of the river.[1][2] His son, Rickard, followed him on the throne and annexed the Neck to the north.
ref.
So this might shed some light not only on Jon's already published arc, but also on what we can expect in the future. We have some foreshadowing through Jon's ADWD dream that he will not only rise with the dawn (thereby live through the Long Night), but will be in a position to lead people (wildings in that chapter) to a new peace after a hard fought war. Also remember that the wildlings, rather enthusiastically, swear oaths to him as if swearing oaths to their king. In this instance, the supernatural (a dream of the war for the dawn) is followed by the natural/human. So perhaps this particular passage (and Jon's dream) can be used to predict that Jon comes out on top, and quite effortlessly too, as a leader. And he becomes a leader who rules by association with the Old Gods; or rules a kingdom for them.
To end, I think it's of note that this passage immediately precedes Jon's conversation with Benjen where he voices his desire to go out on his own - the hero's call to action. This is the adventure that's going to kickstart his growth as a man, warrior and most importantly, a leader. So it looks like before we even began, GRRM telegraphed how it would all end in just three short paragraphs.
#jon snow#asoiaf#valyrianscrolls#ghost the direwolf#some random extra thoughts:#the aspect of fatherhood is closely tied to kingship as kings are often regarded to be the fathers of their nations#so we might see a parallel where jon-like dany-doesn't have children of his own physical body#but rather rules a kingdom as its symbolic father#think of how odin-a mythical parallel for jon-is called the all father because he is father to all men/lands#also it's interesting to me how kingship is a theme but it's almost like the actual theme is that of kings coming of going#but jon remaining and prevailing above all#we have robert who is a disappointing/bad king and his rule doesn't last very long and neither will his dynasty#jaime looks like a king and even if grrm didn't go through with his original ideas he was never meant to rule for long#in the new story jaime is symbolic of rhaegar a would be king whose time comes and goes leaving jon to pick up the pieces#then tyrion who stands “as tall as a king” but not quite! he still is not as tall as jon and tyrion also says in a later chapter#that soon he'll be even shorter than ghost + tyrion wasn't hand for long#mance who is hidden also has his time as king but it's very short lived and jon later absorbs his kingdom to make his own#so we have the wolf devouring the “left behinds” in a way but the interesting thing is this happens in reverse doesn't it#might Jon's new kingdom not only be made of remnants of the nw and wildlings but also have those left behind from the rest of the 7k?#it's possible since jojen tells us that once night comes all cloaks become black 🙂#so yeah this is all just more jon endgame king of winter/a new north propaganda lmaoooo
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booksandpaperss · 1 year
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Absolutely fascinated with how season 3 shows that Will has a crush on Mike mostly through glances and hints in dialogue, and then season 4 not only canonifies it but it also portrays how deep Will’s feelings actually are and shows that Will isn’t just crushing on Mike, he is in love with him.
The lovely @emblazons pointed out in a post (linked here <3) that the way Will’s crush was shown in season 3 is exactly the same way Mike’s crush on Will is shown in season 4. Yes, we know Mike is in love with Will, but we haven’t gotten his perspective in the same way we’ve gotten Will’s this season to solidify and confirm it.
Looking at this pattern though, the logic follows that showing Mike’s crush in season 4 is setting things up to deep dive into Mike’s perspective in season 5 and canonify his feelings for Will while also showing how deep they really go. It’s a simple but clever set up and it fits right into place with my working analysis (that I haven’t finished yet bc I need to do a full rewatch for it rip) that Mike’s queer arc, in terms of realization and acceptance, is an exact season behind Will’s bc of a multitude of reasons but also just thenarrativeTM.
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tropicalcryptid · 2 months
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Man it's been like a decade since I was feral about Zutara but y'all are dragging me back in with your stunning thematic analyses and deconstructed character arcs and highlighting of how damn dirty Katara was done by the ending of ATLA. Ugh thanks now I'm rabid again.
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the-obnoxious-sibling · 5 months
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Emotional damage aside
How do you think buggy arc, assuming we will get one, can play out without him interacting with shanks? And do you think buggy just getting over his past friendship would be having equally satisfying impact on the story as them becoming close again?
well, my shuggy bias is 100,000% at play here, but i think a version of buggy’s arc that doesn’t involve shanks in the end just can’t be as satisfying as one that does involve him, whether it’s a proper reconciliation or just confrontation/closure. the way buggy thinks and feels about shanks has been such a huge part of the way buggy talks about his life and thinks about his goals, it would feel imbalanced to me if he wasn’t there at the end, somehow.
but what could a buggy arc without shanks in it look like? that’s an interesting question. two options (one a hurt no comfort version of my lt fic still pretty shanks-oriented, one an honest attempt at a shanksless buggy arc) below the cut.
if we’re just saying no interactions, shanks can still be part of buggy’s story in absentia, as he has been for much of canon. something to strive for, the measuring stick of buggy’s life, always frustratingly out of reach… until now. now buggy can practically taste the look of shock and awe on shanks’ face when buggy beats him to the one piece! it’s gonna be so good, getting everything he wants and rubbing it in his stupid face. but then shanks dies. shanks is dead. he never got the one piece, and he never got to see buggy get the one piece, and buggy’s never going to see him again, and— the one piece is within buggy’s reach, and so is the person who killed shanks. what does buggy want more: riches or revenge? what does he value more: treasure or an old friend?
buggy wants the one piece for two reasons, right? one: because it’s the biggest most valued most legendary treasure on the planet, and buggy loves treasure. and two: because it’s captain roger’s treasure, and buggy wants to inherit that legacy, if shanks won’t do it. so i think we could manage a satisfying no-shanks arc for buggy if it involves him proving himself worthy of roger’s legacy. not by getting the one piece—i may be engaging in buggy-centric speculation but i think we all know that thing’s meant for luffy—but by gaining the respect of cross guild, and of the other emperors, and of the wider pirate world. the marines are wary of their misapprehension of buggy’s charisma; let’s see his real inspirational ability used for a good purpose. let’s have half the world call him a hero and half call him a monster, and either way mean that they consider him roger’s successor! let’s have rayleigh show up and tell buggy he’s proud of him!!!
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Steggy Week Day 1 - Meta
@steggyfanevents and everyone else pls accept my late offering of brainrot ranting into the void
Peggy's face says so much during the Endgame dance it's insane. It's such a contrast to Steve, who is very expressive yeah but he's really just showing one thing - that he's peaceful (if anything his eyesbrows are drawn in a little but it's just concentration, not any uncertainty like Peggy has). There's not as much going through his head because he's dealt with all of this already. He already wrapped his mind around every factor of what got him to this point, he's just savoring the moment now that he finally can. Peggy's only had the last few minutes. Of course whatever happened when she opened the door is up to everyone's headcanons, but he had to give her something good enough to convince her. Personally I think when they were dancing, he hadn't explained much yet. He just convinced her it was him by telling her something only he would know. He'll get to the 70 year nap and aliens and time traveling later lol I think he wanted to ease her into it as much as possible. Because the door is still open I really think it was just "Oh my god what the hell -> wait I can prove it (with something only Steve would know 100%) -> we've waited long enough for our dance -> ok but actually what the hell??" which leads to the entire explanation after they dance
Regardless of what Peggy knew while they danced, she hadn't had long to process it at ALL. And you can see that. She's not simply happy and peaceful. She's soooooo timidly happy. Her eyebrows are furrowed a little and you can tell she's trying to slow her thoughts down and enjoy the moment. Her smile isn't completely ear to ear uncontrollable. You can actually see her try to contain it a few times - it starts to get a little bigger and she stops herself. She's so used to not being able to feel this kind of pure unadulterated happiness. You can also see her keeping her chin and bottom lip stiff, like if she let go she'd break down crying. At first her eyes are open and it feels like she's looking into the corner at nothing to keep herself grounded. When she closes her eyes, her eyebrows relax a little. I think she was able to let go a little bit with her eyes closed. That's when you see her smile start to get a little wider, then she stops herself, then she opens her eyes again. Then she looks up at Steve. Like the grounding herself by looking at something or not looking at anything didn't work so she had to look at Steve.
Anyway back to her being timidly happy bc I think that's the best way to describe it. Look at this frame
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(Sorry idk why the quality is so bad on youtube lol) she doesn't just look happy and teary. And I wouldn't say she looks confused either. If she were confused she wouldn't be dancing with him. I think it's just an instinct for her to limit her happiness. She looks like she absolutely can't believe this is happening but she knows she can't argue (again, or else she wouldn't be dancing with him), and like her mind is racing but she wants it to stop. This restrained happiness reminded me of something else and at first I couldn't figure out what it was but I did. Look
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She's making the exact same face here except there's no genuine happiness in this one. Her smile is a little tighter because there's nothing behind it. But otherwise. It's the exact same expression. In both she's thinking of "another chance" with Steve, but when they're dancing it's real. In the AC scene it's just his blood that she felt like she had to defend. But when they're dancing ITS REAL!!! look again side by side sorry I'm going insane
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Main point - there's just so much trepidation in her face while they dance. Timidly happy restrained joy etc etc. When she looks at Steve is when it starts to fade. Her eyes scan his face I think bc she's really trying to allow herself to feel happy and she's like look it's him you know it's him calm down it's him. Steve's smile just get bigger when he looks at her but he knows everything!! This frame shows her starting to relax
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But when he smiles at her and she smiles back she's still biting it back a little and pulling her bottom lip in to control herself
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That face is just. There's so much I feel that I should say but words can wait. Do you see the difference in how Steve is just so openly radiating joy but she's not there yet.
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This is the most relaxed she gets the whole scene. She has to shut her mind off and remove herself from the situation and just feel to get to that point. She can do that when she kisses him. And that's where the scene cuts, when she is finally able to just feel and relax and live in the moment with him.
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gayofthefae · 4 months
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Thinking about how the pairs that fight, or don't fight, monsters together confirms who will be endgame. To clarify, you can be in the same setting a plot without being "paired off" and this happens consistently.
Mike didn't spend season 4 with El, he spent it with Will. Mike didn't spend season 3 with El, he spent it with the group. Mike didn't spend season 2 with El, he spent it with Will. He only spent season 1 with her.
Nancy didn't spend season 4 with Steve, she spent it with Robin. Nancy didn't spend seasons 1-3 with Steve, she spent them with Jonathan.
Max spent seasons 2 and 4 with Lucas, Jopper spent seasons 1 2 and 3 together and 4 focused on each other, to add a few as well.
The closest exceptions are Joyce with Bob and Steve with Robin but their time was still pretty evenly split between Hopper and Dustin and those were two couples you were meant to root for anyways to evoke the proper reaction at the end.
We see multiple couples, most notably Elmike and St*ncy, have moments together sometimes even in the same plot and group, but still be grouped with someone else. In season 4, Nancy is explicitly paired with Robin, even showing a scene of them picking partners. In season 3, El is repeatedly blocked separately from the group with Mike blocked with the group (specifically paired with Will). Do they have moments where they flirt and support each other's monster-fighting? Yes! Do they brainstorm solutions to the season plot together, one on one? No. Everyone else does. Everyone else.
It's even a very clear point of early season 2 that Nancy is able to work well with Jonathan on this part of life and not Steve, so they are not shy about the fact that they consistently say "fighting monsters together = romance" (when appropriate) and that has consistently been a received message. So it should be applied in the reverse as well: couples who do not fight monsters together are not romantic or endgame.
They want their romantic moments to bloom naturally from time spent together anyways, not to have to go out of their way to put them together for a single moment only to separate them again as soon as it's done - which is what they do do for strategic couples.
The message this sends is one of romance without friendship. They are only together for moments of romance.
(yet another reason I'm excited for platonic Elmike: they spent time together when they were friends in season 1. And in season 3, the main point was always that Mike saw her as his girlfriend instead of El, looking for a universal rule instead of going off of his knowledge of her)
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fictionadventurer · 8 months
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An underrated benefit of love triangles is that they allow you to have a love story where the ending isn't immediately obvious. In your standard romance, the two leads meet, and then it's just a matter of time until they hit the plot beats that lead to the happily ever after. But the love triangle gives you two plotlines! Two different dynamics! Two valid directions for the plot to veer that will still lead to a romantic happy ending without that ending being a foregone conclusion.
The main character can grow and change in multiple different ways because there are two men on equal standing with her, who can have an influence on her in different ways, giving her multiple different lenses to help her understand who she is and who she really wants to be. When it's done right, the story will be satisfying no matter what the endgame is, because the point is going along on the journey and seeing who the characters become. And the great thing is that you don't know who they'll become because there are two valid options, so the entire story can be surprising, which is so refreshing when so many love stories are so predictable.
#random thought of the day#books#ignoring the multiple books i'm in the middle of should-be-reading#i dove into the only other una silberrad book available on ebook#('the good comrade' if you want to know)#and i'm a quarter of the way through#we've met two possible love interests#and i'm thrilled to find that i have no idea what endgame is going to be#there's one that i'm probably leaning toward that's a bit more standard enemies-to-lovers who enjoy intellectual sparring#but the other option is a *lot* like the love interest in her other book#i don't know if she'd be happy with him but he's going to have a huge effect on her character arc#and honestly she'd probably be a better person with him#both options would be satisfying endings so i can just settle back and go along for the ride#a theme i'm finding in her work (at least these two books) is what happens when people with different moral systems collide#people who are ruled by morality vs people ruled by convention vs people ruled by honor#and people who have different ideas of what they mean by all these things#different definitions of what they mean by right and wrong#and how their worlds are shaken when they interact with each other and find different ways of viewing things#and it makes for *really* satisfying romances because it's about how these people clash and collide and change each other#i'm not even sure she's doing it on purpose because these books are really rather slight#but the somewhat shallow style secretly offers a lot of ways to dive deeper#but it only really comes out later when you find yourself thinking about it after the book is shut#it's not necessarily obvious in the flow of the plot#i don't know how it works but it's fascinating
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roguephenon · 2 months
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"When a rogue operative threatens to reveal the Galactic Kids Next Door to the greater populace of Earth, Nigel is sent back down to stop them by any means necessary. But people have changed, and the boy is tangled in a web of love and betrayal as he finds out just who he has been assigned to hunt down."
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oofouchstovehot · 4 months
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Jane Doe as a Danny Phantom villain :]
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ffb6c1lover · 5 months
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I see your Hades and Persephone and I raise you Cathy and Heathcliff
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evilvvithin · 10 months
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just met someone playing James Sunderland in DBD with the name of "Mary? No... You're..." while my steam name is "mari" LMFAO
What a wholesome moment
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