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angelsarecomputers · 3 months

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I know it’s been said but I find it so weird when people demonise Dora. The one interaction that we get with her- the REAL her- in the whole game, she is extremely patient, despite the fact that Harry is calling her in the middle of the night and asking creepo shit like ‘are you sleeping naked’. We can infer through context clues that this has probably happened multiple times before, and yet she still knows no signs of ill-will towards Harry- she just seems tired and concerned.

And it would be completely within her right to be angry at him for harassing her, as well! Knowing how volatile Harry can be, perhaps she even learned through fear not to confront him. And yet, there still seems to be this perception that, out of the both of them, DORA was the abusive one, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary! It’s not even that I don’t think she wasn’t at least slightly abusive, given Harry’s disabilities and their class differences, but what I am saying is that it was likely mutual, and that, out of the two of them, Harry was worse.

Their relationship probably got horrible and toxic towards the end, of that I have no doubt. What I don’t get is why the fandom seems to believe that Harry, as he currently is, is in any way capable of viewing the relationship objectively. There’s ample evidence that he was violent, frequently misogynistic, and that the experience gap between him and Dora was significant, and yet people still take his worst thoughts at face value. That she’s a ‘war criminal’, that’s she’s a goddess- people seem to think Harry’s deification of her is the main issue, and not the opposite; his virulent hatred towards Dora, towards ‘Revacholian women’.

It just boggles me that people are so willing to believe that Harry was the only one truly hurt- that Dora’s decision to leave was made lightly. We don’t know exactly what happened, and what glimpses we do get are filtered horribly through Harry’s grief, but they were in a relationship for more than a decade! They were planning to get married! I don’t think Dora just up and left for Mirova one day- the way the dream conversation goes seems to suggest they hadn’t been together for a while.

There are so, so many things said during the final dream that are probably just Harry’s self-hatred masquerading as Dora/Dolores- and while I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of it did come from Dora, at other points in their relationship, I think it’s pretty obvious that the final dream is meant to be a confused muddle of Harry’s memories and grief. Why else would she appear as Dolores Dei? But, while no one ever explicitly says it, I feel like a lot of people want to believe that the way things are during the last dream is how they were in real life. That Dora really was cold and cruel to Harry- when in real life she appears as just the opposite, despite what he puts her through.

#and I know the answer as to why people do this is misogyny and also that we simply don’t get to know her very well on her own #and trust me I am well aware that Harry was also hurt badly by Dora. I am in no way trying to villainise him here #their relationship is obviously very complex and multifaceted with both sides being wrong at different points which is extremely realistic #that’s why I love it so much. what I don’t understand is why people will shelve these discussions in favour of woobifying harry #and once again I know the answer is just misogyny and that fandom hates complex female characters #ESPECIALLY if they’ve hurt a male character in some way. but the amount of flat surface level takes I’ve seen about these two…#let’s try and do a bit better instead of just boiling shit down to ‘Harry bad’ or ‘Dora bad’ yeah?#harry du bois #dora ingerlund #harrydora #dolores dei #disco elysium #de meta

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supercalime · 14 days

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I’ve been lurking in the 911 tags for only a week and I’m already exhausted of most b*ddie shippers holy shit

#the annoying ones know who they are #this isn’t a personal attack #I truly don’t want them to become canon out of spite #why even tag your hate in the goddam tag dedicated to another ship #Tommy’s tag has a lot of hate and people talking about eddie how there’s clues etc etc #I haven’t been deeply involved in fandoms in the last few years for this exact reason #when it becomes too meta it kinda ruins it for me #people digging through interviews and trying to find evidence in situations that weren’t intended that way in the writing drains you #sorry to break it to you #but Bucky is into tommy and was since the beginning of meeting him #yall going #well actually #he’s in love with eddie but doesn’t know and misplaces it with Tommy #is tiring #I don’t know if b*ddie will be canon but not everything has to be about romance with them #they seem to have a connection that goes even deeper than romance #having them be a couple just kinda irks me #they don’t need to be two bros sitting in a bathtub five feet apart but they seem like soulmates in a way that I don’t see as romantic #I say as an aromantic person too #deep connections can be just as intense and interesting if even more than coupling up #obviously not tagging the ship name cause I’d be lynched if I do #and again this isn’t about the actual ship it’s more about the fandom and how they feel entitled to claim theories as facts #lety rambles #tommy kinard #tevan #tuck #911 #911 abc #911 show #bucktommy

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grumpysunfish · 2 days

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Can we like. Stop projecting modern day western class discussions into mdzs. Or better yet stop talking about class altogether since so many of you are clearly ill prepared for it.

I love mdzs for how complicated and different it is from what I'm used to and seeing all of that get whittled down into the same old tired money/power = bad when it is so much more than that. It's a completely different system and culture. Western capitalist critiques isn't going to cut it people.

#jiang cheng #mdzs #This applies to many more character but I am the most familiar with his brand of discourse #I am completely in wei wuxian's side regarding saving the wens #Although I think he could have handled that way better #But if jiang cheng chose to save the wens at the risk of yunmeng jiang. I would not have been at his side #Jiang cheng's decision doesn't just affect him #it affects a whole sect #People depending on him #Why is this so hard to understand? Why is jiang cheng selfish for choosing to protect the people under him?#Shockers. Being responsible for a large group of people means there are thing you just can't do even if it is the right thing #Reputation is in fact important. Isn't mdzs partly about that? Isn't that one of the things that killed wei wuxian?#Anyways I love you characters straining under the weight of their duties and responsibilities #They can never make me hate you #meta analysis

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findafight · 11 months

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People making Robin mean to Steve is one of the biggest reasons I loved your one sided Ron*nce post. Because I genuinely cannot see Robin just overlooking how much Nancy hurt Steve just because Robin has a crush on her. Like even in small ways, I think Nancy did a number on Steve. I look at their relationship and see Steve being told he’s over dramatic, stupid, and that his hobbies and anything that makes him Steve is automatically less than Nancy’s hobbies and desires. Idk I just can’t see Robin hearing about that or about anyone treating Steve badly and not taking Steve’s side. Stobin should have the same brain always

Ahhh yes thank you!! Yeah it simply doesn't make sense to me with the history there. Because like. Even if we do not think Nancy cheated on Steve (which I believe she did, regardless of what TPTB say) she still broke his heart. Regardless of whether or not Steve thinks it's justifiable that she did, Robin wouldn't let that go. She holds a grudge like a motherfucker. The girl she liked had a crush on Steve and he also ate bagels messily in class and didn't know her name and she held onto that for at least two if not three years. No way that after she has finally found her forever person she'll let him being hurt go!! If she can hold onto a petty grudge she can hold onto a heartbreak grudge for her best friend. She does not like people who are mean to Steve and would not be one of them in the way she is sometimes made to be in fics(outside of legitimate misunderstandings, disagreements, normal friendship conflicts) (sorry I've rewritten this like 3 times trying to figure out how to say this without dissecting the st/ncy dynamic in s2. [which i ended up doing and then copy pasting that into a blank doc because oh. i have points. but off topic for this. But it's still a bit ranty] this gets a bit long, but I did delete a weird siderant in it so it's more on topic? I do have a stobin and r//ance point I SWEAR and I hope this is cohesive)

Like, I think Steve 100% blames himself for the breakup. We see this in s4. but also the show tries to make us believe that that's the truth and not Steve seeing Nancy through rose-coloured glasses which is wild. Unreliable Narrator Steve about his own love life is just. it makes sense with everything that we see happen between him and Nancy and how she very much has fault in the ending of their relationship, and should have taken more responsibility and at least broken up with Steve after she slept with Jonathan, but allowed Steve to shoulder the blame for being a "shitty boyfriend" when he really wasn't.

The way the breakup is framed as Steve's fault from the beginning of S2 is kinda wild to me because...Steve was right?? I ALSO wouldn't want to be discussing telling people the top secret government conspiracy that people had been murdered to keep it quiet over in the school library. That's not shitty boyfriend behaviour that's smart person scared of the government that can and will kill you if you blab behaviour. And Nancy even admitted she waited for Jonathan to make a move before going back to Steve, and then she cheated on him with jon! These are not things that Steve knows about or is responsible for! Why does the show make it seem like Steve is entirely at fault here!

Anyways I think Steve must not have told Robin everything and just used his "I was a shitty boyfriend" line on why they broke up for robin and while yeah, she's not good at reading people, she does know when to not push her sad looking friend into talking about a rough breakup. Which is why Robin is on the St/cy train in s4. If she had known everything, (once again not even touching the cheating) I cannot see her pushing Steve towards Nancy. She loves Steve and wants him happy, and thinks maybe if Nancy keeps giving him eyes, knowing Steve has changed in the past year and a half, Robin thinks maybe something can come of it! that's sweet! She's trying to get her friend back together with an ex he cares about, that obviously seems into him too, and doesn't know the extent of their breakup. Unfortunately canon did not make it clear Steve or Robin or Dustin or Eddie know Nancy and Jonathan are still dating? Which makes it very weird, and not make sense, so I am choosing to believe through a game of telephone with the kids Robin and Steve think Nancy and Jonathan broke up and that's why she didn't go to cali.

But Robin doesn't have all the facts so when he does tell her all about the end of his and Nancy's relationship, yes, and Robin is squinting at him because he is acting like it is his fault his heart got broken, but from all the facts given, it doesn't actually seem that way. She's not the best at reading people but she knows Steve, and it just...doesn't add up for her. Because all the things he said he did make sense to Robin, not wanting the government to kill you is actually very reasonable etc... And Steve is still so sad about it and clearly it still affected him getting his heartbroken like that. So Robin, who can hold a bagel crumb grudge like literally no one else, will obviously hold some resentment towards Nancy for hurting Steve like that even if Steve doesn't blame her, because Robin knows what it's like to just...not understand what you did wrong and still blame yourself for it. She's neurodiverse! If we use Rebel Robin, she lost Barb as a friend for seemingly no reason to her other than Barb finding a better friend(I think?) and it wasn't so dramatic as a breakup, but still. I think seeing that Steve had legitimately tried with the tools he was given to support Nancy and be a good boyfriend but blamed himself, and Nancy letting him do that, would strike a chord with Robin. She would Not let it go.

Robin might want to be Nancy's friend, especially if Steve is encouraging it, and insisting that it's fine and they did save the world together, but you're right! she could never overlook the fact that, not only is Nancy Steve's ex which makes things awkward anyway, but she also broke his heart and let him take the blame for it even if he doesn't realize it. (not to mention!! the cheating!!! I am still looking for post s2 st/ncy fic that let's them actually talk about it but it seems like that's just not addressed by the shippers? which is unfortunate because I'd read it, but I don't ship it enough to care to write it myself. Ya feel?) She could probably move past it for friendship if Steve was okay, but I also just...don't think they'd be super close friends.

Tbh I don't see Nancy really wanting to stick around with the Hawkins crew more than exchanging holiday cards and maybe a wedding or big event or something. It'd be nice for her to have people she knows she can rely on, but her goals are so much bigger than that and she'd want to get away and move on, especially if it was for sure over and done. She wants a lot more than Hawkins, and canonically only stays in contact with people involved with the Upside Down if they're dating her or related to her. I know we love to make everyone happy friends big found family but in canon...I don't think Nancy is really looking back at her hometown once she leaves for uni.

I don't think I can even picture Robin having a crush on her in anything other than "pretty badass girl appreciation" way because knowing thabout the st/ncy breakup would probably kill any butterflies before they hatch for Robin.

She couldn't do that to Steve. She couldn't do that to herself! I've seen people complain that a lot of the... not criticism but reasoning for not liking r0nance makes it about Steve so here's this. Robin wouldn't like Nancy not only because of all the Steve stuff, but because they simply do not vibe romantically.

Robin needs someone who will be able to smile and shrug off some of her rants or rambles or even find them endearing. Nancy needs to be alone for a while but in a partner someone is able to push back against her to challenge her and encourage her to her ambitions (this is something with Nancy robin I think would struggle with, with how Nancy was dismissive of Robin and her ideas, which might lead to insecurity for Robin) Robin is involved with people from the Upside Down, she's best friends with Steve, she obviously is familiar with Dustin and Erica and possibly Max. Nancy wanting distance from that aspect of her life wouldn't gel with the company Robin keeps.

I also think not wanting to risk hurting your friend or ruining your relationship with your best friend over a crush is completly legitimate reason for not pursuing a relationship (romo or not) of any kind. Like. jeez. God forbid you care what about your friends feel. It's frustrating when people treat that like it's a stupid reason when it's not!!

Robin wouldn't date Nancy because it may not ruin her relationship with Steve from Steve's side, but from hers. It'd make her question herself and what kind of friend she is. Would she want Steve to date an ex of hers that broke her heart? Even if she blamed herself for it? She wouldn't. Does she think Steve would ever do that? absolutely not, because Steve doesn't want to even risk hurting her. She values her friendship with Steve way more than a crush or a potential girlfriend. She's confident in their relationship far more than a fledgling romantic relationship. She doesn't want to even risk the chance of losing Steve, regardless if he says he's okay with her dating Nancy. Robin doesn't want to be the person who puts romance before her best friend, because she adores Steve, he's her person, they want to combine, and she knows Steve would never do that to her. It's Robin's choice! And I believe she would choose Steve.

Also, this one point is about shippers, it's sorta...super frustrating when so much of the reasoning of people wanting it to be canon prioritizes Nancy. Even when they try to make it about Robin it's about Nancy because it seems like they just. ignore that Robin's best friend is Steve, and that Nancy was annoyed by Robin rambling and being a bit Weird. different interpretations I guess but Nancy was jealous of Robin because of her closeness to Steve and also found her annoying! they got closer in the end and Nancy definitely respected her for the rant in the office, but she would still find those traits annoying. A lot of these points come from viewing r//ance as a potential canon ship when...it's not. (I think it is legitimately so hindering that a lot of shipping is about it being canon or whatever when no? it's just fun to explore a dynamic between characters! which is also why I don't get romo r//nce bc I think they'd have a really weird and kinda awkward relationship. which is fun and neat to explore even if it's messy!)

but still, it wouldn't happen in canon and that's fine!! it's okay to like fanon content! not everything has to be canon. and it's frustrating when people insist on there being a strong possibility of canon r//ance when there isn't. That's not a bad thing! It's just a thing! I'm sorry but based on what is going on with Robin and Vickie very likely being either in a relationship or on the cusp of one in s5, and everything going on between Nancy, jon, and Steve, there's no room for it. It wouldn't make sense to shoehorn it in when Vickie is literally Right There and smiling and enjoying being around Robin more than we saw Nancy being.

People doing this also insist it'd be good for Robin when really they just don't want Nancy to be with Steve or Jonathan and it's like yeah neither do I. I think Nancy should be single. Don't put that shit on Robin. Having them get together at the end is just not allowing Nancy time to be single and find herself and explore the big wide world, and not be tied to Hawkins. Nancy deserves a big post grad adventure without worrying about the upside down.

Let Robin have a cute redhead girlfriend who understands that sometimes she cannot stop her mouth but thinks she's funny and knows that she's gonna sometimes be Very Weird with Steve. Just because a character was created to be a love interest doesn't mean they cannot be interesting. Look at our boy Steve! He was initially supposed to be Nancy's jerk boyfriend who dies and look at him now. :')

Also. It'd be sooooo weird for Nancy there. Steve's her ex! Her gf being best friends with her ex would be weird for her!

and the argument that Vickie is boring is...like ok. more than one person is allowed to ramble when a bit fluster but okay. then so is Barb. She was also barely there. so is tommy. like. people are allowed to not like characters or like ships or whatever. But c'mon. Cut the girl some slack!

Vickie is an eveasdropper who wants to barg into stobin's weird thing. I believe she returned fast times stopped at fifty three minutes and whatever seconds on purpose to suss out if Robin got it. She got so distracted by complaining about her ex she over peanut butter two slices of bread. She thinks Steve is funny. She's a bit of a freak and I think if we continue to see more of her she'll fit nicely with stobin!

Literally I only think R0nance would potentially date in an au where steve and nancy never dated and robin and nancy did instead in a first teenage loves kind of way, but ended up being too different and prioritizing contrasting or conflicting things and realizing that they don't work as a couple. Like. Even there it doesn't really make sense to me? I mean I'm writing the post o66 au with that, the first teenage love r//ance because I do think that, given the right circumstances they would potentially fall in love. But I don't think it would last long term. They're too different about too many things to be compatible I guess.

Anyways yeah I can't vibe with Romo ships that have to disregard or ignore key factors of characters or their deep and loving platonic friendships with others. Sorry I wrote so much about this it probably makes no sense. Peace and love and remember stobin are platonic soulmates who are each other's number ones :)

#steve harrington #robin buckley #vickie stranger things #anti ronance #anti stancy #i guess? listen i didnt mean for this to be this way i just have lots of overlalping thoughts #and its late and im tired and i hate when people treat robin caring about steves feeling and wanting to avoid hurting him #as something inherently... idk. wrong? inserting a man in wlw relationships when. its just being kind to your friend.#plus robin made her relationships about steve long before fhey were friends so not out of character this time its because she loves him tho #findaanswers #anonasaurus #its not even thst i hate the ships i can and do enjoy a stancy fic once in a while its just. i love stobin most #and when romo ships are prioritized over their friendship i get annoyed. and rnce is a frequent perpetrator of this #finda's rambles #i also prefer canon divergent fics so in those for me rnce doesnt work off the bat. other idk i simply dont vibe with it #nancy wheeler #stobin #stranger things #stranger things meta

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quietwingsinthesky · 10 days

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was writing this down for an ask but realized i was quickly getting off topic for that ask lmao. let’s talk about Dean’s handprint, the wild misinterpretations of it, and how those have affected how people read Anna covering it during her sex scene with Dean.

We have to establish the obvious first: the number one way the handprint is misinterpreted is to establish a romantic connection between Dean and Castiel from their very first meeting. Because of how popular the ship is, we’re now left with the unfortunate aftermath of people knowing the ship first and the show second, and therefore being more inclined to interpret the show through the lens of the ship. Needless to say, while looking at season 4 through that lens for hints of destiel is fun, it doesn’t lead to a thematically cohesive reading. The handprint is the best way we can demonstrate this. If we take the handprint to indicate that Castiel has been romantically interested in Dean since minute one, or even that he sees Dean as a person rather than an instrument of Heaven’s will at first (put a pin in that), then the rest of his character arc for the season is incoherent and meaningless. To assert that this is what the handprint is about takes the conclusion Castiel needs the entirety of season 4 to reach and transplants it onto him at the very beginning in order to make it easier to find evidence for the ship.

There’s a lot of media out there where interpreting it through the lens of a ship, even one unintended by the author, can enhance the original text. (Lest we all forget our Winter Soldier roots.) Supernatural does not have that relationship to interpreting it to be about destiel. A season 4 where the handprint means Castiel is in love with Dean is a weaker story and does a huge disservice to Castiel’s actual character arc.

So, now that we’ve established what the handprint isn’t, can we talk about what it is? Yes. It’s pretty simple, actually.

Think of it this way: To Heaven, Dean is livestock, and the handprint is the brand telling everyone (but especially Dean) what ranch he belongs to.

Let’s start with the obvious: it isn’t a metaphorical brand at all. It’s literal. It’s burned into his skin permanently (or at least, when the makeup department wants to put it there.) I’d argue that from the nature of it being notable as the only scar Dean has from being raised from Hell and later showing up during his sex scene with Anna that even if we don’t see the handprint, we’re meant to interpret it as continuing to be there for… well. The rest of his life, most likely. And that’s horrifying. The handprint is telling us two things when it shows up: one, letting us know that Dean’s resurrection was intentional and through a manner we as the audience don’t have the information to guess at yet. Anyone who watched the show airing, or watches it now without knowing about angels would have assumed demonic deal intervention as being the cause of Dean’s new lease on life, and this. handily. discards that theory. But secondly, it tells us that this resurrection was violating. All resurrections on Supernatural are.

We assume from Castiel’s line, you know the one, we all know the one, Mr. Gripped-You-Tight, that he’s the one who put it there. However, to then make a further leap that it was Castiel’s personal decision to do so is, I think, a misunderstanding of his role. Take that pin out now. Dean is not a person to Castiel at this point. They’re not friends. Dean is a tool for Heaven to use, a tool that should be honored and grateful to be picked up at all. Make no mistake: Castiel branded him for Heaven, not for himself. Castiel’s a ranchhand. They aren’t in the business of letting the cows run free if they look a little sad to be slaughtered later.

Castiel needs to start here for his arc to be as impactful as it is. He can’t begin rebellious. He has to learn how to doubt. He has to develop a personal friendship with Dean that threatens his allegiance to Heaven. He has to see Anna having chosen to fall rather than obey Heaven and to be betrayed by Uriel being so desperate that he’s turned to killing their brothers and sisters trying to find a way out from under Heaven’s control.

There’s another line I think gets misinterpreted a lot in this initial meeting. “You don’t think you deserve to be saved?” On its face, easy bait for someone looking for shipping fodder, but that misses the actual point of the line. It’s a powerplay. We don’t learn until later why Dean wouldn’t think he deserves to be saved (aside from his general Winchester levels of self-esteem, but knowing that trait about him actually serves as a pretty good red herring to mask real reason Dean is thinking about himself as irredeemable now until the reveal. It’s not that Dean had a low opinion about himself in general, but that he tortured people in Hell and can never forgive himself for that.) , but Castiel does know. All of Heaven knows what Dean’s sin in Hell was. Without saying it, Castiel can remind Dean of it here. This line isn’t about Dean being so inherently good that Castiel had to rescue him. It’s about making sure Dean knows that the only way he can be ‘redeemed’ is through obedience to the heavenly powers who own his ass now. This is how he deserves to be saved. Because God commanded it. Because they have work for him.

And if he doesn’t bow? Then, as Castiel puts it in the very next episode, “I dragged you out of Hell. I can throw you back in.” This threat hanging over Dean’s head won’t go away for the rest of the season, not from Heaven. The only shift is that Castiel’s continued doubt and disobedience levels the playing field between them. They’ll both be punished, rather than Castiel taking on the role of disciplinarian. (It’s a really clever way of dealing with that power gap between them, actually. There’s always a bigger fish.)

The handprint and Castiel’s early conversations with Dean serve as a reminder of the precarious position he’s in. We shouldn’t take him ‘being saved’ at face value, no more than we should take Heaven being good just because they’re the angels in this equation as a given. Dean hasn’t been saved. He’s being used, just as much (if not arguably more) than Ruby is using Sam. (Because at least Ruby truly believes this is for Sam’s benefit, in the end.) And the worst part is how aware of it Dean is. How could he not be? His entire stint in Hell is defined by how Alistair used him. He’s just been handed off to a different owner, one that will still happily push him into the thing they ‘saved’ him from the minute it proves useful. Dean needing to torture Alistair reminds us just how little his circumstances have actually changed. He’s not allowed to say no to this.

So. The handprint is Heaven’s mark of ownership. It’s Dean’s status as their tool, their victim, burned into his flesh and inescapable. What does it mean when Anna places her hand over it?

I’ll lay my cards on the table. I’ve been thinking about this for so long because the aforementioned tendency to assume that the handprint is evidence for destiel means that the scene between Anna & Dean also gets lumped into being interpreted as more evidence for destiel. For over a decade, I have endured people joking about Anna being jealous of Cas for getting to leave a mark on their boytoy. And that’s one of the nicer things the Supernatural fandom will say about a woman who they perceive as a threat to their ship.

So, not to be rude or anything, but fuck Castiel. This ain’t about him.

This scene—It’s a lovely scene, a fantastic continuation of Dean and Anna’s previous conversation into the language of a sex scene—is about two people who have both been used and threatened by Heaven connecting over that shared trauma. Before, Anna gives space for Dean to open up about Hell, but he can’t, not yet, and though she knows what he’s gone through, she hasn’t been there herself. But when it comes to what Heaven has made of them, she does understand. It’s an incredibly vulnerable moment.

You make the handprint about Dean and Cas, and you erase what that scene is about entirely: the way Heaven’s abuse has tangled itself deep into Dean and Anna’s lives, into their bodies, and how they can resist it, if only for a few moments together.

The handprint was never about Castiel at all. It was about Heaven and its dehumanization of Dean.

#not to be annoying or anything on this wednesday morning #but uh. handprint meta.#everyone else is wrong about the handprint and what it means. except for me <3 im special and the Understander of Soup Or Natural #spn #dean winchester #anna milton #castiel spn #annadean #i really did try to keep the frustration in this to a minimum and just discuss what the handprint is #eh. arguable how well i managed that. but i think i can be forgiven after dealing with over a decade of Incorrect Handprint Takes #and im allowed to be salty down here in the tags :3 hi. hi. if you think anna touches the handprint out of jealousy you are bad at watching #shows and bad at media analysis and i hate you. personally.#god no but seriously it flattens the three of them so much to say the handprint is about cas loving dean. it really does #its a disservice to castiel’s gradual rebellion. its a disservice to dean’s struggle in s4 of transitioning from an openly abusive dynamic #in hell to one that’s trying to gaslight him into believing he’s better off under heaven’s control. its a disservice to anna and her own #trauma with heaven and the way she connects to dean through it.#number one dean/anna enjoyer and i am SICK of it. justice for the handprint scene

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57sfinest · 1 year

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okay as a Jean Enjoyer i feel like i need to say this because there are different genres of jean enjoyment (jeanres if you will). i am of the faction where i don’t really vibe with the whole “jeangst” thing (as it exists as a fandom phenomenon) and here’s why. so much of the stuff i see labeled “jeangst” is WAY too sympathetic to and forgiving of jean for my taste. like he’s woobified or there’s a lot of uncritical ‘poor jean harry is so mean to him and now harry’s amnesia ruined his life :(’ type stuff which is such a fundamental misunderstanding of him and his role in harry’s past & present and it skews how we view his dynamic with harry too. and i don’t mean this as “oh considering jean’s pov is bad!!1!1″ no i consider his pov all the time i am indescribably mentally ill about the torment that the jeanharry relationship puts both jean and harry through. but when we consider his point of view i really think that just ascribing him the simple role of ‘poor depressed punching bag’ strips him of all the interesting parts of his character & also contributes to a less nuanced and accurate understanding of harry as well (it makes it easy to villainize him for his addiction and mental illness, which in and of themselves aren’t moral failings-- harry was a bad person for his behavior, which is not the same as his addiction or his illnesses)

like, jean put himself in this situation. over and over again. yes he was likely forced into working with harry, but whatever’s going on between them is more than a workplace conflict. you look at luiga’s twitter and he’s said so much about jean and harry’s codependency and the other mentions of a very close and very unhealthy personal relationship. you see the way jean talks about his own role vs harry’s in the ending-- jean WANTS to be the poor victim, he wants everyone to see him as the helpless punching bag who is being such a saint by Putting Up With Harry And His Bullshit, look at me, i’m so much better than this stupid mentally ill addict! he’s like harry you are so unprofessional, and there is something wrong with you, and we are all so tired of putting up with you and your shitty behavior, but here he is sitting in a hotel lobby in a wig to harass harry while harry is actually doing his job!! like jean my love here you are reaming harry out about “doing his fucking job” sir what are you doing!! you are sitting in a hotel looking angry for 14 hours just in case your special little partner who you are definitely sooo mad at condescends to speak to you for a few minutes!! and you dragged poor judit out here too!! jean. girl. babe. it’s time to admit you are a massive hypocrite with an even bigger victim complex. you, a mentally ill addict, are losing your shit at harry for being a mentally ill addict. why don’t you meaningfully address the actual behaviors instead of just reminding harry that he’s an alcoholic every 2 minutes.

like i’m not saying jean should have infinite patience for harry after multiple years of mistreatment but damn dude the double standards are insane. jean is instigating a messy public breakup and being pretty abusive the whole time and then he’s like everyone feel bad for ME and not STUPID HARRY who is an ALCOHOLIC in case anyone forgot. he goes on and on about how much his life sucks and how much harry sucks and boohoo poor him he’s so depressed and beaten down by the shitkid etc but then in ANY sub-ideal ending you get there’s still something that tells you that he’s still taking harry back or at least considering it. in the cuno ending “he can’t leave you behind. he just can’t. one final time...” even in the worst ending “if you make it-- if you’re sober for 10 months-- tell us. i’ll work with you again.” jean babe if you hate him so much then stay the fuck away from him!! damn!! your codependency is showing!! your victim complex is showing!! just go get harry’s name tattooed on you at this point like at the very least it might get you some sympathy from people at the bar when they ask about what’s very clearly an Ex’s Name Tattoo

#this got out of hand. sorry #anyway yeah i disagree with 'jeangst' on principle because it's too nice to jean basically #you can be sympathetic to his point of view without being a Jean Apologist or completely erasing his role in a mutually abusive dynamic #i love to think about how much this whole situation hurts him. and i love to think about how a lot of it is his fault #it's so much more interesting for him to be a participant in his own victimhood #he's standing there goading harry into punching him and then he gets punched and is like HOW DARE YOU PUNCH ME!!#well sir you see if you tape a sign on your forehead that says kick me then eventually you are going to be kicked.#the jeanharry relationship as a form of self harm for both parties involved etc etc #using each other to punish themselves etc etc #just enough good in it to keep them going. just enough bad to make it bitter the whole way through. the push and pull of addiction etc etc #see a return to jean/harry partnership after martinaise would be so funny #jean tries to provoke harry says some shitty stuff etc and harry just like. starts crying or having a panic attack or whatever #and jean is like hold on this makes ME look like the bad guy. come on quick hit me. come on say something mean. call me a slur. please #or maybe harry goes right back to being an asshole depending on ur guy. and nothing ever changes and they hurt each other for ever and ever #until they succumb to the inevitable murder-suicide #kiwipost #jv meta #jean vicquemare #I HATE THIS GUY *beating him with one of those carpet dust racket things*

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idiosyncraticrednebula · 6 months

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Almost all of the "criticism" (i.e., hatred, bashing) thrown at Disney Princesses comes directly from a fundamental misunderstanding, misinterpretation and misreading of the core message of their stories and their respective characters and journeys.

#disney princesses #disney #meta #disney meta #txt #thankfully dp hate isn't as common now thanks to the multiple defense essays that have been done about them there are still people who #spread nonsensical exaggerated and false narratives about them #don't even get me started on the disney princes #if the disney princesses are unfairly lambasted the disney princes are basically burned alive just because they are the love interest #and everything that is said about them is based primarily on the first two princes and even a bit of phillip #but ever since eric they've been pretty damn unique in their own way (except for john because i don't like him but i don't even think he #should count anyways considering the historical basis of his character. anyways that's another topic for another)#i feel like this specially applies to the first 6 who get the most hatred #specially in regards to cinderella and ariel who are undoubtedly the most misunderstood of all #and they also happen to be two of the most popular princesses #if you think all they have ever thought little girls is to be pretty and wait for somebody to “win” them as their trophy wife you are #pretty damn stupid. how the hell do y'all reach these types of conclusions?#the disney princess has always been defined for her HEART the physical beauty just ACCENTUATES their beautiful soul #they have different ways to show it some are tougher and some are softer but at the core they are all good people #if you don't get that about them ofc you are gonna f*cking hate them with every fiber of your very being #this also has to do with the bastardization of the princess archetype being painted as a spoiled brat as opposed to a kind-hearted selfless #and brave individual #also it's kind of funny that they complain about that when they constantly tell women that all they have to do is be pretty and don't have #to do a damn thing because their existance alone is enough and they don't have to do sh*t in the relationship #SO WHICH ONE F*CKING IS IT????????????? JESUS CHRIST #anyway. rant over

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pinkopalina · 4 months

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I love hearing people's batjokes shipping origins because a lot of them are like omg yeah the lego movie omg yeah telltale omg yeah deadly duo and killing joke meanwhile mine was learning about batman who laughs :)

#lego and telltale are both wonderful dgmw #but i am absolutely shipping them because of the obsessive world ending meta possibilities for which jokers love for batman allows #and batmans reciprocation of that obsession bc it goves HIM purpose and drive and need and he loves the clown for that #im shipping them in the wooooorst way #im impregnating joker just to fuck with bruces dad complex #like. 😵‍💫 im insane over them #i loved batman for a long time but didnt ship batjokes until so recently #i used to hate it actually? i was really into healthy best friend lover ships so i took the three seconds of cute in justice league #and shipped batflash and i was so on board for that despite never having seen much of jl to justify it lol #but then it was october 2023 and i was on my period and there was a batman who laughs video randomly on youtube #and then i became the creature i am today

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bluffmotel · 10 months

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while only a minority share this view, i do find it somewhat tone deaf when people claim jay's ending is the best outcome for an abuse survivor -- either directly or indirectly implying everyone in the holt house was an abuser that jay, their sole little victim, had to get away from. for starters, none of his endings are happy ones. not even the fugitive path where he's holed up amongst nature, has a dog, and is bathed in solitude. maybe if you close your ears to what jay's saying during that scene you could see this as good for him, but his dialogue is stifled with an achingly loneliness, a sadness. this idea that he craved being alone in the wilderness is not one jay paints himself, it's only something that's said by tyler ; someone who clearly doesn't understand the younger on any level, much less grasps his desires. yes, jay wanted out, he likes nature, though no human can stew in their own space for years without this affecting them mentally. and that's not even taking into account that his entire life is over! he can't travel, he can't visit other countries or get lost in other areas of wood lands or plains, jay is infinitely stuck where he is. it's not a prison cell but it's a cage nonetheless, as the old saying goes : a golden cage is still a cage, after all. he tells zoe these beautiful sights have grown dull on him, laments about missing his family, vanessa, and is so chained by his want for connection he reaches out to a desert dream victim of all people. like, what about this muted cynicism, this barren home, seems happy? maybe he wanted this, some whimsical dream of this, before. now though? it's not what jay thought it'd be, and he lacks any power to change it. this is not some amazing ending for abuse survivors, it's still sad in a melancholy way, simply because jay is visibly unhappy with said circumstances.

but moving on to this, ah, ‘poor little victim in a lion's den’ narrative ... what? i think a lot of people fail to grasp how complex the holt household is in terms of toxicity and abuse. something that's very common nowadays due to how much people project rather than see what's in front of them. and don't get me wrong! projection is fine, you do you, we all consume and parse through media differently -- but this narrative is, by canon evidence, rather fictional. to be completely blunt, jay is not the only victim stuck in the holt house ?? the abusers have always been bear ( physical abuse, verbal degradation ) and sharon ( passive in the face of her kids' abuse, emotional manipulation ) ... and we are literally told point blank by the story itself and another character that these two favored jay immensely compared to their other children. now i'm obviously not saying that he has not faced trauma, he has! favoritism in a house like this does not shield you from the toxicity, sometimes that favor makes things worse, but he was protected to an extent, in ways tyler and dale were not. those two very clearly faced the brunt of bear's physical abuse ; for each other, for jay, and just overall caught their dad's ire more because they stood up to him. tyler takes a beating, a sight that's not at all new by his grim acceptance of this and the fact he states he's been doing this since young :

so, this is normal for tyler. getting beaten by his dad ( which isn't even mentioning the horror story bear can tell to ash, about how he literally threatened to cut tyler's ear or finger off ) and having his mom overall turn a blind eye to it, even going as far as to dismiss this fighting as childish behavior rather than what it is. and dale? we don't see much of him and bear in general, yet the second he steps up to defend tyler, with something as measly as a shove back, bear wastes zero time in hitting him so hard he's practically out of commission for the rest of the fight. he didn't even think about it, merely swung at dale as hard as possible on instinct alone before tyler hastily stepped up to defend him. what happens when jay tries stopping the fight, though?

both parties grab for him so they can toss him out of the way so he doesn't possibly get hurt. you can speculate bear was only doing this in order to finish his punishment on tyler, he'd deal with jay later whatever, although why not punch him like dale? why, out of all the moves on his belt, does he do the more merciful option? bear, who is nothing if not made of violence and has been molded to respect it? his fist that's raised in the air isn't for jay, since the next frame is jay shoved out of the way and him hitting tyler again ... hell, in dialogue where bear and jay are sitting on their porch, the youngest can even say bear beats on tyler and dale specifically. why not say “you beat on us”? like, the game is heavily implying that while jay is traumatized, there are some methods of abuse he simply did not face. one of them being the physical abuse prominent at home. and no, i'm not counting whatever pranks dale's pulled on jay ( like shooting him six times with a bb gun lmao ) because honestly? that's just older brother behavior, and we know that despite the morbid pranks, he still looked out for jay in the ways that counted. like protecting him from pa and to an extent tyler, something which, again, jay says himself!

back on topic a bit, the notion people seem to have of jay and his family seems overly simplified to me. people just looked at dale being his usual asshole self and went ‘abuser’, people looked at tyler's rather drastic and not usually like himself reactions to a high stress situation and went ‘abuser’, and that's a bit ridiculous to me. can't say i'm shocked! since so many people nowadays just see someone mean to their favorite character and decide woobifying said fave while demonizing their opposing force is exactly what canon intended. as dusk falls couldn't be a game more clear about it's main theme of family and the fact there's no purely good or bad people in this world, two statements that correspond directly to the holt family. are they bad for each other? probably! but that's a different discussion compared to, say, every single soul in that house violently abused poor jay and they should reap the consequences of that. dale and tyler, like their beloved younger brother, are also victims of abusive parents and a toxic home life. in turn, they both show signs of this abuse in ways that aren't entirely sympathetic or easy to swallow, especially when they've been dealing with it longer than jay and have never had their parents' favor the way he did. i see people get angry at tyler for the famous cabin scene, but nobody turns a critical eye to sharon ; who for all intents and purposes is watching this unfold without a care. she never physically stops tyler and her attempts to kill the fight are weak compared to her previously steely commands. and, honestly, the fact that tyler was that stressed about sharon getting on that bike so she can be protected, when she's the most capable out of the three of them, is way more strange than tyler's outburst -- when he's in a high stress situation, his baby brother's dead, and his life as he knows it is over. a life he didn't even have to begin with, since it was stolen due to his abusive upbringing.

whether this excuses what he did or not is entirely up to the player! i personally don't think it does, though i also understand where this is coming from and the game makes it clear this is not usual tyler behavior. throughout other people's views it's hammered into us that tyler has a cool head relatively, is the most sensible and smart out of his brothers. so, no, i do not think he was choking jay out all the time for his misplaced resentment -- i think his obvious disliking came from his stilted interactions with jay, and his lack of bond with him at all. we see in book one two times he reaches out to jay, demanding that he eats ( a minor, small thing to fret and worry about ) as well as panicking when he sees jay away from the rest of them during a shoot out. dale constantly looks out for jay as well, going as far as to take the heat from romero if they get caught and something as small as taking blame for jay's mistake in the barn scene. are his brothers more prone to violence and apathy? sure! yet they clearly love jay regardless. abusive households are not easy and see through. in fact in many cases the different levels of abuse the kids suffer does breed life altering resentment later on, envy that can damage these bonds permanently. honestly the holt family intrigues me deeply because of how well written they were as a unit, the effects of abuse and toxicity subtle and not overt in a ‘psa message’ kinda way. and these horrible relationships and ideals shared do not negate from the even more horrible fact that there is love in this messed up family, even bear clearly loves his sons, but that doesn't make it better. it almost makes it worse, seeing all the good intentions and care. knowing it doesn't excuse what they've done to each other nor does it make them better. they're a picture perfect family of an ugly wound! which is fascinating! i only wish more people saw that wonderfully shown depth rather than this bland and lukewarm take on the holts overall.

jay is a victim, he is traumatized, he deserved to one day spread his wings and put some distance between himself and his family ... but he was not the only one who deserved that ending, and he was not the only victim there. he was merely the only one with easy to parse trauma responses.

#as dusk falls #interior night #jay holt #dale holt #tyler holt #the holt family #meta post #ngl i'll make fancier tags eventually because i do not wanna clog the adf tag but this'll do #this was not supposed to be my first post yet i feel very strongly about this topic and the holts so um #here we go i guess!#cannot stress enough the literal dev of interior night has said the holts do want what's best for each other #they just have different ideas of what that best is! so it comes out wrong and warped and sometimes mean spirited #but they aren't just 2-bit abusers with signs on their heads saying : i hate jay and abuse him on the regular im a monster kill me #like do you know how much it wrecked me going through variations of the jay in prison scenes and seeing him say like #that tyler might even be happy out there as a fugitive. and that jay wants that for him? for tyler to be happy?#even jay himself comes into his wisdom which has always been there and acknowledges his love for his family #and the fact tyler and dale were miserable going on the way they were. just like he was!#the game centers around the holts and the walkers because they are two families that love each other and fumble the landing of it #jim lies to vince over something unforgivable. yet lying is all he knows. yet he did it out of a selfish love for his son #michelle cheats on vince which is awful and tries to paint it as something not important but she loves vince #is even willing to let him indulge in petty revenge ( which is missing the point ) so that they can stay together!#terrible things they're doing but it never takes away from the fact they love vince and zoe #a sentiment echoed by the holts!#idk like i know this take might get me killed but seeing morally gray games get the black and white treatment kills me #you are missing the true brilliance of adf's writing! you are missing some amazing characters!#also jay is not some unflawed creature. he literally can get so jealous over some girl that he isn't dating to the point of MAIMING a guy #he could've killed todd. he probably almost did! vanessa even says he might be more like his family than he thinks #and even if you don't choose this option it is still inside him. this paranoid jealousy and brutal violence #he can shoot vince or watch him die. he can let his dad die. he can bury someone alive. he can kill a cop and some poor ranger #dale and tyler and jay might be different characters and were shaped differently but they're still the same at their core

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quinn-pop · 11 months

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Mayta Knight day 4 - Loss

this is one of those comics you can easily tell was unscripted but 1. the loss of one’s self is probably one of my favorite themes ever and 2. i infect everything i draw with fluff (apparently)

bonus:

#text in notes !!#as you can probably tell i did some very bad editing on this one #I REALLY hated how some of the panels turned out so #this is the only way it’s somewhat presentable okay #pen art struggles #you can just pretend it doesn’t look like mk’s poking kirby in the eye…#anyway yea this is my maskless mk headcanon #the paw pads are very much just because i like drawing them #and i love when people give him scars and all but im not good at drawing those and keeping them consistent n whatnot #and then ill have to commit to deciding whether he’s fluffy or not and im not ready…#kirby #kirbyposting #meta knight #metadad #mayta knight #my art #seriously someone tell me how that works #oh. Yeah. and ignore 5 finger mk. please. Please i dont want to redraw this LMAO

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uniiiquehecrt · 8 months

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Plz explain then the travesty that is love and thunder

A trainwreck directed by an egotistical six-year-old in a leech of a man's body who thinks he's a screenwriter and still plays pretend with his uwu self-insert OC.

.... real talk, though, in short:

The real travesty of Love and Thunder is that Thor is already made of love and thunder, and simultaneously Jane is the love to his thunder, and the MCU, through taika wai-feck-off, decided he can be neither of those things, and have no nice things. Thor is the most tragic character in the ENTIRETY of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and yes, I do think more tragic than Wanda.

He has lost :

his entire home planet

his people

his entire family of four (no hela does not count he was not connected to her and should have been odin's sister)

before which he lost his brother (his platonic soulmate, to boot) a total of 3 times emotionally, two of those physically

he lost his ENTIRE friend group because his half-sister murdered Volstagg, Hogun and Faendral; he never reconnected with Sif

his only good mentor/parental figure (heimdal) was stabbed through the heart in front of him

he lost his dignity, his crown, his birthright (voluntarily and otherwise)

he lost his self-worth, his sense of direction (bc the writers legitimately thought his arc was about stepping down from the crown instead of making it his own and growing into it in his own way, by his own merits, at his own pace and gave it to some literally no-name side character that showed up for one movie and never respected thor in the first place to even earn his title from him smh)

and taika's idea of rectifying any of this .... is to give him some random child he doesn't know, that he doesn't care for, and manipulate him into taking her under his wing not because of the kindness and limitless love of his own heart even after shutting himself down post!endgame, but because jane asked him to as her dying wish — and then say that THAT is his happy ending.

Tell me why Thor, the longest standing of the Big Three, the king of the stars, the hero who is by all respects the embodiment of love, gets no companionship, no friends, no home, no place to belong, when Tony got a hero's send off and Steve got to be with an alt!dimension Peggy.

#and don't hecking tell me that 'oh but jane had cancer so'#bro i went out of my way to read that comic after i realized how irritated that movie got me #and you know hecking what? JANE COMES BACK #HE USES ALL OF HIS POWER TO /BRING HER BACK/#AND SHE CHOOSES TO COME BACK FROM THE GATES OF VALHALLA #BECAUSE THAT'S HOW MUCH SHE LOVES HIM - AND HOW MUCH HE LOVES HER #AND GOSH DANG IT GANG — mcu deserved that win #JUST ONE #HE DESERVES THE /ONE/ WIN #if he can't live for his people and carry the torch of everyone he has lost by being king #and being the best king he can be and choosing to live and love and survive and /lead/ despite his loss #then AT THE VERY LEAST he deserved to be happy with jane as a vagabond protector and /be/ with her and have his kiddos and be at PEACE #furthermore we really gonna act like the royal line isn't gonna end with thor and that that is a pROBLEM??? LIKE A COSMIC ONE???#like they're not gods and i hate that L+T tries to make them more like the comics when they are n o t literal gods #but gosh dang it the royal asgardian line is like... titan and dare i say /celestial/ tier levels of ridiculous #and thor is the lastoline #we really not gonna talk about that??#&&. meta #salt to taste #&&. whispers #&&. | marvel. |#&&. thor.#anti thor love and thunder #t:l+t #l+t #anon #nonny my love ty for the ask im just so salty about everything taika's gone and rubbed his nasty hands on concerning my boy

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