#if I see any shipping discourse on this post it is over for me

[olderthannetfic]

i saw this post today where this person was talking abt fandom racism and was pointing out some real issues within my fandom and favorite ship that I too had noticed… but then kept bringing it back to the lack of one particular other ship they liked, when it's like, no that's not the problem, and that ship is unpopular because those characters have zero romantic or sexual chemistry and barely any scenes together. (it was really funny that someone had reblogged this to take their 'lack of seeing this one character in a sexual way in fic miiight be racist' complaint to be like 'i think you're right! we should have more fic about [a long list of different ships involving that character with people they have ACTUAL chemistry with].' it was really funny. ofc op totally missed the point they were making there.) anyway i just feel like way too many useful conversations about this stuff are ruined by people making it about shipping or other really subjective fandom preferences. i get that this is because something like 'number of fics X ship or character has on ao3' is an objective measure, and something like 'level of orientalism in how a lot of people are writing this desi character' is not, but i wish people would realize it tends to alienate more people that it converts. and ime, it's often the people who maybe would most benefit from hearing those criticisms (e.g. are writing unintentionally racist stuff in their works, and are someone who would want to know about that and how to do it differently) who tune it out the second you make it into insulting their shipping preferences.

i mean, there WAS some real racism in the star wars sequels fandom, including among the fanfic/shipping side. not just the shitty dudes harassing kelly marie tran. we saw the really bizarre 'predator' language people directed at john boyega just for making some joke posts on instagram about disliking reylo and its shippers. it was the very classic racist thing where people see something as automatically more threatening when a black man does it. ....but how many people had already tuned all that out because the people most outspoken about the racism in the fandom kept reducing it to 'if you ship reylo over finnrey, or kylux over finnpoe, you're a racist'? it's like a boy who cried wolf thing. if you've shown that you can't uncouple serious discussions and concerns from just being pissy that your otp is not more popular, people are going to see you as someone who can't be taken seriously and then ignore you when you do have a real complaint. it's like how i'm sure that some of stitch's essays are thoughtful and important, but i have no desire to read stuff by someone who is infamous for harassing people just for what they ship. i don't feel like i can take any of that person's judgments about fandoms i'm not in, for instance, seriously.

that's not to say fandom preferences in shipping can't ever be influenced by racism (or other 'isms') but is it ever really *that* specifically that is the problem, or the broader pattern it is part of? and i feel like 'maybe fandom is a little too focused on het and slash ships between two young skinny conventionally attractive white people' is a message more people are open to than 'your specific white M/M or F/M otp is racist'

anyway it reminds me of the stuff i've seen sometimes in academic fandom studies about how you can't really honestly study a fandom where you're deeply mired in its discourse - you need to focus your work on fandoms that you're familiar with but not in that way. and i think that maybe also applies to some of these discussions about fandom racism and misogyny. maybe you're just going to have better takes on something when you're not deeply invested in other unrelated arguments about it, like about which ship is the most popular. like i could not care less about star wars shipping and have zero take in reylo vs. finnrey, so that's why i feel like i could trust my perception that the way a small minority of reylos were posting about john boyega's instagram posts was racist. it didn't matter if he was genuinely being a jerk to them or about their ship. he obviously wasn't a 'predator' and it was pretty telling language for a group of largely white people to use about a black man making fun of their ship on a different social media site.

--

The laying pipe thing was blown so out of proportion, yes. Call it sexist, sure, but it wasn't fucking predatory.

[hungerofhadarr]

After screenshotting my original 1:27 am rant just for safekeeping and returning to this line of thought, I think I would like to swing this bat at a hornets nest . And I shall call it ;

BG3 And Polyamory, AKA The Discourse From The Eyes Of The Polyamorous

Hi, I am now disclosing the polyamorous part of my queer identity to the internet. Yay! Remember, I am only one polyamorous person on this website and I am not the spokesperson. This is just my own opinion and my own feelings with how both the game and the fandom seem to be handling the inclusion of polyamorous relationships and characters.

And in my humble opinion: Yikes !

This should be no surprise, but the polyamorous rep in bg3 isn’t … really good . It’s there, sure, and maybe I’m the fool for expecting it to be good when it really is the first time I have ever really heard of a game having an actual polyamorous option. Like on purpose. But with how much bg3 was hyped up as being super inclusive and completely different from all other games in the genre, I had hoped that it would take a good approach to polyamorous people and relationships.

Suffice to say, it fell flat once I actually looked into it.

The companions listed as open for an open/poly relationship are Astarion, Shadowheart, Minthara, and Halsin . What’s wrong with that?

3/4 of these characters already feel like they lean into the conservative fear of polyamory . Three of them are the ‘ evil ‘ members of your party . While ( besides Halsin, but we’ll get to that ) the rest of the ‘ good ‘ character are all monogamous. Growing up in a conservative home, in a conservative province, discussions of the idea of polyamory always came back to the same argument. That only the strange and amoral would do it. Only people who can’t be trusted and don’t actually care about you want to be in a polygamous relationship. And sadly, that is what I see echoed in the choices of who is and isn’t polyamorous.

I romanced Wyll in my first playthru. I had always planned to romance Wyll, actually, since I first saw his design when I first learned of bg3 during its early access days. When I met Halsin next, and chose the options to flirt with him, I thought that a polyamorous relationship between my Tav, Wyll, and Halsin would be cute. I had hoped it would work. I had already seen plenty of Astarion and Halsin and Tav art and gifsets and every other piece of fan content floating around . I had hoped that maybe that bit I read about who is and isn’t open for polyamory was outdated, and I could have this relationship play out in my little playthru .

Of course, it came down to having to choose. And I shrugged it off, at first. Sure, Larian didn’t make Wyll polyamorous for whatever reason. It is the first game that has polyamorous options, and I can just continue the game but have that polyamorous relationship in my head as my canon for my character. That’s fine, that’s what I’ve done before. It can’t be different now, right?

But then, I looked online, opened Tumblr, wondering what other people would say. Not thinking that it would be a big debate about if it is or is not okay to pair certain characters in an ot3 or not.

Wyll can’t be polyamorous, because knightly tales of courting and the mere act of courting is strictly monogamous. Pairing him in an polyamorous relationship is fundamentally misunderstanding the character and you’ve missed the point of him if you do that. It’s wrong to want that, wrong to think about it. The game has polyamorous options, be happy with what you have.

And so, I felt guilty. Larian already set up this dichotomy between their good leaning characters having the normal and good monogamous relationship and the evil leaning characters having the strange and perverse polyamorous relationship. But then, to see that the mere act of pairing your own character with two characters because you think it’s cute, is now being looked down upon so heavily and being seen as a “ fundamental misunderstanding of the characters “. And to have those ideas an opinions suddenly become the most agreed and accepted stance on the topic? How was I supposed to feel anything other than shame. Like I had been enjoying the game wrong, in a backward way.

If Wyll was polyamorous, you do know his approach to love wouldn’t change, right? Same with Gale. Same with Karlach. Same with Lae’zel. None of them would suddenly have to have completely different approaches to love and how they want to show it and how they want to go about it. Wyll can still be replicating the courting, the dancing, the slow burn that he always heard about in bards tales and he could still be polyamorous. There’s this idea that polyamorous love is only able to be expressed in very specific, very narrow ways. That miss the point of what love is.

People don’t act like this with the polyamorous companions, I’ve noticed. You aren’t suddenly bad and misunderstanding the story of Astarion or Shadowheart or Minthara or Halsin for having a strict two person relationship with them, and not expanding into the idea of those characters taking on another partner at some point. If you have Astarion in a strict monogamous relationship, no one says anything. But saying that you have a Tav who’s dating both Karlach and Gale? People are going to talk about you. They’re going to make vague posts. They’re going to talk about how it is Impossible for those characters to Ever be comfortable in a polyamorous relationship and how it is Wrong to protray them as happy in one.

I didn’t think people forgot that the stereotype of monogamy = good and polyamory = bad is still alive and well, but it seems that when it comes to the funny dungeons and dragons video game, it’s okay to prop that stereotype up and get mad when that is possibly challenged.

Now, what about Halsin? He’s a strictly good companion. He cannot fall under the pervious argument, so is he an exception?

No. It’s worse.

Halsin being polyamorous stems in racism. Wood Elves are all described as being polyamorous, and that they do not understand jealousy. And that they do not ever settle with any of their partners. And that the relationships they have are seen as “ doomed to fail “ . This is a stereotype. Commonly associated with indigenous people. That we cannot hold a ‘ proper ‘ relationship and that we always sleep around . We didn’t fit the white model of what a (white) family and a (white) relationship should look like, so the stereotypes and misconceptions started. And, unsurprisingly, ended up as another bit of dnd racism and bioessentialism.

Halsin doesn’t uphold the pervious argument at all, but he shows another part of the discussion that I don’ t think anyone really thought of. The racism stereotypes didn’t vanish when Larian made BG3, they’re all still there. You still have good races and evil races. You still have all the dnd bioessentialism that everyone was so keen to say was gone or just pretended it wasn’t there anymore.

And Halsin is an example of those stereotypes that people are still feeding. So much content with him in it narrows him down to ‘ Big Elf that Fucks and is Horny ‘ or ‘ Big Elf that can be Sexualized no matter What he Does ‘ and it is because Larian didn’t remove the stereotypes in the first place , and fandom doesn’t care enough to take a step back for a second to realize they’re playing into them.

Am I saying you shouldn’t have an ingame polycule with the characters available? No. If it’s cute, and you like it , and it makes sense with the story you’re making for your character, and literally just because you can, go for it! But for the love of god, can we be a bit more careful with how we treat the concept of polyamorous relationships and how we talk about them? Polyamory isn’t just a fandom thing with your ot3s, it’s a real life thing. And we can see how you treat people just having fun with their characters. You understand that, once you get that torn up over the act of making three characters hold hands, it becomes a little bit hard to forget that that is the attitude you hold towards the concept of polyamory when it doesn’t fit the molds you’ve subscribed to.

#bg3 #bg3 critical #👍 I decided it was for the better that I rewrite this whole thing #because I was mean in the original draft #if I see any shipping discourse on this post it is over for me #long post

[antimony-medusa]

Gonna be honest with you though if someone outright says “don’t ship my character with other people” or something to that extent regarding smut or whatever I don’t think there should be any ambiguity

I get your point about the nature of fanfic being inherently encroaching upon people’s images so that levity should be extended to otherwise uncommon avenues but I really believe hardline boundaries should be respected, end of, no discussion. If I see people violating creators’ boundaries for their characters Or themselves (and these can be intertwined, it’s not up to the audience to pick apart their boundaries, cuz I’ve seen people try to do that) I’m not going to judge them fairly and I feel like neither should you.

Lines can be crossed and intimacy (not even necessarily romantic!) is a very different monster than the other avenues of storytelling because of how it involves real life relationships seeping into character relationships. Its’s uncommon for people to be like “I wrote A’s character being tortured because I feel like A is tortured in real life” but they Can and Often do that with ship work. So I don’t know, I feel like you’re not affording this the right nuance.

Alright, so, this is another post I'm gonna slap with a discourse and long post warning right away, buckle in.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, and this is not an uncommon opinion to have! It's still the opinion of twitter/x so far as I know, and I think it's probably the opinion of the bulk of dsmp fans here, as well. I know my posts get notes once they start circulating in hermitblr, but I don't kid myself that I have the majority view. I am posting to explain my views expressly because I know a lot of people don't agree with me!

And in this case we do have a difference of opinion. There's two sort of points as I see it in your posts— we have hardline boundaries about shipping/nsfw from some people, and everyone in the fandom should be abiding by those no exceptions or be thrown out of the fandom; and we have shipping boundaries but not boundaries for other things because shipping is uniquely boundary-crossing and terrible and invasive, in contrast to anything else we can do in fandom.

Taking the second part first, I just don't think that's true. Let's not forget, boundaries discourse started with SMPLive and SMPronpa, and it was not the shipping that caused the discussion, it was the death games. The first real fandom reckoning we had with the notion of boundaries as mcyt fandom was over gore and murder and portraying people in violent ways. Shipping was barely a blip on the radar. The way the discourse has developed now, shipping is framed as the absolute worst thing anyone could ever do with your public image, and everything else is fine, but that is not the case for everyone. Recently the Pirates SMP creators were asked repeatedly for their boundaries (bothered on twitter, really) until they gave them and thus we saw people being fine with shipping but not wanting family dynamic, or being against both shipping and gore, or being fine with shipping but not wanting to be gender bent or trans headcanoned, etc. Not everyone feels the same way about the same things, despite the us-american cultural viewpoint that romance and sexualization is uniquely bad but gore and torture is fine, that everything else is fine.

Like, if we're looking at DSMP, I think there are a lot of creators who would feel just as strongly if not stronger about fics in which their character died of a terminal illness than they would about a fic in which they kiss someone, for understandable reasons. But I see those tropes in the tags regularly!

I think if we are honest with ourselves, if we are going to hardline boundaries about things that are uniquely invasive or bad to do to a creator's character with the view that we are putting all of this up for the creator's approval, we need to accept that this excludes us from writing anything where a character is abusive or is tortured or dies of a terminal illness or is psychologically broken or is age regressed or is neurodivergent or is queer if the cc is straight or trans if the cc is cis or cis if the cc is trans or straight if they're gay— the list of things that would be weird to do in the face of the real guy is really long. And it has most of our favourite tropes on it!

I love writing autistic philza. It would be really fuckin' weird to go up to Philza and tell him about how I write his character as whumped and autistic. Come on now. (But that's within boundaries, so that's— fine? I really don't think it's fine!)

Which is why my stance is that we should be thinking critically about these things, and keeping the fandom seperate from the creators. Some of these things are just not for the creators. They're fine but they shouldn't go on twitter. Y'know?

The idea that shipping draws uniquely on the real person and leads to invasive behaviour but nothing else does— that nobody does "I wrote A being tortured because I think A is tortured in real life"— Look. I have been in the fandom a long time. I remember how all the abused tommy narratives fed right into people assuming his family in real life were abusive— and talking about this on twitter! Where he and his family could see! People did this with WIlbur and Techno too!

I remember people reading about trans tommy and then truthing that the creator either was transmasc or was going to come out as transfemme any day now, publically, on twitter and in his chat. I have seen people she/her tubbo to his face on twitter, with fancams. I have been in chat when people who have clearly assigned Phil "dad" start asking WILDLY invasive things in TTS. If you think that shipping is the only fandom behaviour that can lead to people drawing directly from the streamers for their work and treating the creators weirdly about it, you simply have not been paying attention.

The way the fandom insists on treating benchtrio as children despite the fact that they're almost twenty and viciously attacking their friends for treating them as adults and chiding tommy and tubbo and ranboo for inappropriate behaviour. The list goes ON.

So. The recieved DSMP wisdom is that we should TTS the streamers to check if it's okay if we write a fic in which they die of cancer. We should DM them on instagram to ask if it's okay if we write them as a gender or sexual identity they don't share. We should show up in their twitter mentions to ask if it's okay if we write them as a physically abusive parent.

No????????

My view on that is that it is frankly bizzare it is that we have decided that "asking creators for detailed instructions regarding porn or gore" (especially in TTS! When they're fucking at WORK and can't step away! Stop doing this to the hermits!) is normal and fine and responsible but "post your shit in appropriate places and leave the creators out of it" will make you a monster.

Once again, the experience of someone coming up and saying "i think of you as age regressed" and someone saying "i found this fic where you're age regressed" and someone saying "can I write a fic where you're age regressed" is not that different. In all cases you know that the person has been thinking about it and putting it out there, and in all cases you didnt seek out this information, it was brought to you. In all cases it's weird. Just do not bring this information up to them!

If you just think about it for a while, you see that there is an entire host of things that would be weird to force into the view of a creator, especially when you consider that half the time we got these clips from TTS information when we have no idea if the person answering knew the context of what they were being asked, if they were specifically aware of the creator/cc divide that the fandom works with, or if they felt pressured into it. Oh yeah, let's take a TTS clip from Tubbo when it was 2 in the morning for him and he was deep in a minecraft mod when someone asked him about alters and delusions and he was like "oh you mean like— when they can't help it? I guess that's fine." That definately counts as freely given, reversible, informed, enthusiastic and specific consent to show him anything we want at all times forever. That's never going to make him uncomfortable.

Think a little here.

So I think there's a lot of the fandom that we should not be putting up for the approval of the creators, and if we don't have a firm answer on if they would like potential edge cases, we should probably be thinking about it and keeping it away from them (and I would err on the side of caution), we should NOT be showing up in the TTS to ask them about narratives in which they're institutionalized, or making them a GOP conservative in fiction, or if Wilbur was canon about seeing them as a bottom, or whatever bizzare thing someone is cooking up now. Honestly if you think to yourself "I don't know if the creator would like seeing this", I would be much more comfortable if the two choices we were picking between there were "simply don't write it" or "write it but keep it away from them", and "harass the creator for an answer on this subject and only write it if they say yes" never entered the equation at all.

And to return to your first point, if we already have a class of fiction that we are keeping away from the creators because basic intellectual curiosity would show that it would be weird to show someone, I don't think it's the end of the world to go "okay, creator doesn't like NSFW, so we also keep the NSFW away from them, keep this shit off twitter, block them if you create it, don't show it to them" and then we archive lock it and continue on our little weirdo on the internet ways.

Now, I don't expect to convince you of this, the phrasing of your post does not indicate that you're open to discussion on this topic. That's fine. Nobody has to agree with me. But I grew up conservative christian, and I have already had people try and get me to throw people out of the community for their perceived sins where I was like "well, I really don't think this is that bad", and I'm really resistant to being forced to do that again. I don't think it's a healthy way to run a fandom, to be shunning people for what they're doing in fiction. Harassing creators in chat? Sure, I will block them from my events as untrustworthy. That's hurting someone in the real world. Writing something that I don't vibe with privately on the archive for an audience of 50 people? That is not doing harm to real people. As long as they're not showing it to the creators, I don't count that as offensive.

How's that for nuance.

#discourse #fandom meta #dsmp shipping #qsmp shipping #anon #ask #long post

[bogkeep]

Would you recommend the SSSS comic? I know little of it beside the very beautiful artstyle and premise

to answer the question of if i would recommend SSSS as a comic: yes, yes i would.

a description for those who don't know: Stand Still Stay Silent is a post-apocalyptic horror + adventure webcomic set in the nordics (norway, sweden, denmark, finland, iceland) that have been isolated from the rest of the world and gone back to their old gods. the the world outside of safe zones is full of trolls and beasts - humans and mammals that got infected by a horrible virus and turned into monsters. the story follows a ragtag crew that ventures into the old world (derelict denmark) on an expedition to collect books.

the comic updated every workday until it concluded in 2022, and consists of two Adventures. the creator had plans for many adventures with these characters in this world, but ended it after two when she wanted to take a new direction with her life.

what i love about it:

- the art is GORGEOUS. it's been a huge source of inspiration for me. open any page and it's a masterpiece, and you will ask yourself "how the FUCK did she update this FIVE DAYS A WEEK"

- the characters are wonderful and endearing. i just, i love them so much. i am so thankful lalli hotakainen exists he is one of my #1 blorbos forever

- the world is so cool. the blend of chunky sci-fi and norse mythology fantasy magic slaps. it goes so hard. i fell so hard for this comic when i got to the big ferry ship with a viking style dragon head prow added to it. it's everything

- it really really gets nordic cultures. it's difficult to explain all the dynamics and nuances but it just gets it. it brings me as a scandinavian a lot of joy to read a story that speaks to my heart this way. the attitudes, the language barriers, the cultural differences... it was so refreshing to me in a media landscape dominated by american stories. when the pandemic hit, i decided to reread the comic because i found such an odd comfort in seeing how it depicted the scandinavian countries reacting to, well, a pandemic.

- there's kittycats

what i don't like about it:

- the most glaring and obvious flaw is that everyone in the comic is white. there's not a single character of color anywhere, not even i background shots or the prologue. there's no mention of the saami people (the indigenous people of northern europe), either. i believe this was done in ignorance more than malicious intent, but the implications are Extremely Bad and it's been bothering me (AND MANY OTHERS) since day 1. that is the number one caveat i will give to anyone wanting to check this comic out. i've been in the discourse trenches and i am not going to excuse this. it's just bad!

- you can tell in the middle of adventure 2 that the creator has kind of lost interest in the work, around the time when she found jesus i guess. like, very few people can keep up work on the same creative project for years and years and years and i think it's fine that she wanted to drop it, but it's a bit sad to see the comic dragged to its end like a limp corpse, and feeling like the creator no longer really cares about the characters.

- minna sundberg has said and done some questionable things, presumably gotten somewhat radicalised over time, and has also converted to hardcore christianity which is what her new works are about. there's nothing about this in SSSS - there is a moment of christianity represented in the story in a sort of mythological sense, just like the other religions, but this was written before minna's conversion. her new works... are a Choice. i have much to say about them, and i have, and im not gonna rehash it now.

SO YEAH hopefully this will help you take an Informed Choice! i got into this comic in 2015 and was deep in the fandom and it's for better or for worse part of my soul foundation now.

i also recommend A Redtail's Dream, minna's "practice comic" before SSSS, based on finnish mythology and the kalevala.

#stand still stay silent #might as well tag this if i wanna dig it up later

[longing-for-rain]

you know what i noticed about kataang shippers is that, they have made multiple blogs (even titled in the url) fully dedicated to bashing zutara. like whole blogs full of nothing but hating zutara and everyone who ships it.

i don't see the reverse. yes, there are zutara blogs with lots of aang/kataang critical posts. but these blogs also have content that's focused on zutara (posting about the ship you actually do like! imagine that!) and most are content creators as well. i can't think of any blogs that are purely anti-kataang or even mostly anti-kataang.

idk to me it just seems like zutara shippers are better about staying in our lane and enjoying what we like instead of devoting *that* much energy to hating ✌️

Oh definitely, I think in the past few years I’ve seen two blogs called something along the lines of “Zutara isn’t canon” and post nothing but angry anons whining about people shipping Zutara. And of course, the “fandom police” guy who is very obviously a right winger poorly applying social justice concepts in an attempt to win ship discourse, and who thinks anything non-canon is stupid.

It’s funny because how do you miss the point of fandom this badly? It’s transformative. There are only so many ways to tell the exact same story. There is a reason why it’s very common for non-canon ships to be more popular among fans than canon. It taps into the creative aspect that so many of us enjoy.

And for Zutara specifically, I’m actually glad it isn’t canon. I like that it’s open-ended and that I’m free to write it however I want, because to be completely honest, I think the creators would have completely botched it if it was canon. I mean, I actually like Maiko quite a bit too but I don’t like how rushed their ending felt. I don’t like how it felt like Mai reappeared to be Zuko’s prize. And given the straight up creepy things I’ve heard the creators say about Zutara over the years, I have no doubt they would have made me hate it via poor writing.

Plus you’re right, at the end of the day, fandom is about enjoying what you want to enjoy. Making entire blogs dedicated to telling people they’re stupid because they don’t adhere to canon as if it’s a religious doctrine doesn’t seem like you’re enjoying yourself too much. Sure, I’ve made posts critical of tropes, characters, relationships, etc. that I don’t like, but ultimately I spend my energy on what I actually do like.

#anti kataang #zutara #atla #avatar the last airbender #ask #anon #fandom salt

[highpri3stess]

"Why are we hating on JJK writers and fans."

Okay, as a JJK fan, let's list everything that has happened for the past three months. Take a seat and drink water. You're gonna need it. And since you people always think I'm angry, imagine me saying this with the most deadpan tone in the world. I am not angry posting this. I am jaded.

Majority of you are racist. Don't boo me you know it's the truth. Just look at how you guys wanted me to deactivate or tried to gaslight me because I said your fave is supporting a pedo. In FACT. It was a JJK writer who sent my post to that lady who opened me up to a lot of racial abuse from JJK fans. Edit; oh and she didn't apologize for doing that to me btw. I won't expose her though.

And doubling down on the racism, you people do not respect black women in your fandom. Like it is VERY bad. My jjk moots since 2021 up until now still get racial slurs hurled at them because they exist in a space that does not care or defend them. And you see your black moots get racist comments but you want to go "no discourse". I get it. You are a pussy. But to that extent? If you're above 20 and you're still scared of talking about racism in your community or standing up for black writers I am ashamed for you and I am shaming you.

I didn't even see any of you talk about noury on here. Especially ms "I will use the palestinian genocide to hide from criticism." I genuinely hope you at least donated something to her or spoke about her on your other platforms.

The way you guys excuse anything as long as the person is your friend. Because tell me why you people were jumping on Ezra's and Tee's dick, especially after what they both did. Or trying to discredit his racism. Be for real.

The way some of you come for other fandoms. JJK girls, especially that one that deactivated came around to drag aot writers because they said they are "niggerfying" the characters. You go to tr writers and start sending hate, chasing them out. Hell, there are cliques of JJK writers and fans alike on this site. You guys are fucking elitist. You don't like any other person apart from yourselves and it shows. The way you come for how people write x reader "why is she so ghetto". It is ALWAYS you people. Always.

SatoSugu fans are slowly becoming extremely misogynistic. I'd expect that behaviour from dudebros but the moment a girl says they like either of them, they come out of the woodworks. Also, let people ship crack ships in peace. I've been a satosugu girlie long before the season 2 came out and I miss when we were a lot quieter. NanaGo girlies were chill. Can't you copy them at least?

Now moving on to less pending reasons:

I've said this before and I'll say this again, stop tagging "he spat in your mouth and came" or nsfw links with x reader and about 30 plus characters. I get it, we're all burnt out. But even in my busiest of days in university I have NEVER posted that kind of shit. I take my time because writing is a skill and an art. This is not fast fashion.

And stop rewarding anyone who does that. Why are they having 1k notes in 6 hours? What the fuck is up with that?

Do better writing Gojo and hell the entire cast. I get it. Every character has a stereotype attached to them. But come on, 800 words and STILL it is a copy and paste of every other fic? I have to check twice if it is the same author and it's not. It's like every naruto oc fic written in 2016. Same face syndrome but in fic writing.

Writers are getting burned out cause you guys want the same thing over and over again. I hope salt is not the only spice you use because sending hate anons to JJK writers who write outside daddy doms and playboy Gojo is giving that energy. Be for real. These people are giving quality fics, stop chasing them away.

These are my few gripes with you all, because one day is not enough to list every issue I have. If the shoe fits and you rant in my inbox, that's on you. I did tell you to take a seat, drink water and read this in the calmest voice as possible.

#monica.speaks ♡ #jujutsu kaisen discourse #as a jjk fan i'm going to point it out #you guys should change the way you behave for real or don't [as]

[ladykailitha]

Look, considering I've only gotten involved in Stranger Things after season four and therefore haven't been around the fans during other new season filming starts, but my brothers/sisters/nb in fandom what the honest fuck is going on right now?

I have been a part of other fandoms when new seasons started filming and the worst I'd seen was BBC Sherlock. And you lot are behaving worst then they did.

And Jesus fuck, that's a fucking low ass bar.

(Again I am ship and let ship, kinktomato, and headcanon free for all)

But this is just what I've seen in my small deliberately secluded corner of the internet so forgive me if I get some things wrong.

Ronance fans have turned on Steddie fans.

Steddie fans are trying to eat each other over who tops and who bottoms between two horny, barely out of their teens, men.

Eddie is confirmed dead.

Dustin is trying to become Eddie.

People want Will dead because Noah Schnapps said some stupid shit regarding genocide.

And Argyle isn't coming back.

I'm going to give you my feelings on these so buckle up lets go:

1- Steddie and Ronance fans have turned on each other. And I know this because I doom scroll through steddie tag. That Ronance fans think Steddie fans are delusional and that they're going down after season five airs and there will be more Ronance fans because they're perfect for each other.

Where to even begin on this? First, never tell a shipper that their ship is never going to be canon because they don't care. Just ask all the Destiel, johnlock, and merarthur fans. Steddie fans are just going to ignore all but the most salient parts of season 5 if Eddie doesn't come back and write AUs for the rest of their lives. You know, like they have since the last scene on the Piggyback faded to black?

Secondly, I don't think I've seen much Ronance without Steddie. Granted I only read Steddie, but it seems that the two ships are tied pretty heavily together. The fruity four comes to mind. So maybe it's that they're getting tired of being a side ship next to a massive one like Steddie. Who knows. But apparently they're bitter.

And I say that because they keep tagging their anti-Steddie posts as Steddie to make sure we see it. Honestly, I just block them and go about my day. But seriously, I've never understood people's need to be shitty like posting hate on the tag for that thing. If you don't like it, fine. Block and move on.

Thirdly. Lastly. Maybe. I don't like Ronance. I saw the charms when I first joined the fandom and it was cute. Until the more I read and I realized that most of the time they don't bring up that Jonathan is even a person let alone Nancy's current boyfriend. That most of the time Steve is written wildly out of character about not caring that they're a couple and that he just wants them to be happy. Like, one Jonathan is severely under used in the fics I've read. Like Will doesn't have an older brother anymore. It's all Steve or Eddie. Which considering how you like your flavor of queer for Eddie or Steve (gay/pan/bisexual) Will talking to them about being gay makes sense, but Jonathan showed us in the last season that he is going to protect Will no matter what. Then blip! in fanfics, he's gone.

And then the whole Steve being okay with Robin not only dating an ex-girlfriend of his, but the ex. The one he thought he was going to marry. The one he dreamed a whole fucking future on. That was still hurt by two fucking years later. You either think very lowly of Steve or you just don't care. Because if you think Robin and Steve are the same person/share the same braincell/ride or die for life, there is no way even if Nancy threw herself at Robin would she even consider it. (I can write a whole ass post just on this by the way, don't get me started.)

2- This is the most recent bullshittery due to a current event about Sub Eddie. This is the worst discourse in any fandom and the worst offenders on either side tend say the most homophobic shit imaginable.

And it's pointless. Whether you think Steve is a top or bottom, whether you think he's dom or a sub. Same with Eddie. Everyone has their own flavor they prefer and they won't always match up with yours.

Personally I write them whatever feels natural for the story. But here's the major crux of the matter. I don't believe a little nerd in Bumfuck, Indiana has any idea what flagging is. I'm sorry. Left pocket, right pocket. Doesn't matter. The likely of him even knowing what BDSM is is pretty slim. I grew up in a small town. There will be some people that know, but that's because they know adults in the scene.

Don't like, don't read. Seriously, guys. Let people enjoy what they want to.

My personal feelings on the matter is that Steve is a bottom/sub because he deserves to be taken care of and Eddie would absolutely want to be that person for Steve, in and out of the bedroom. Again, you do you, beau.

3- The tombstone. Sigh. It was hard to see that. Not just because it confirms he's dead, but because it's been defaced. Most likely like fans have said, "BURN IN HELL" the poor bastard.

Having a tombstone doesn't necessarily preclude Eddie's return. There are several ways he can still comeback Kas! theory not withstanding. But the wank here is people jumping on Steddie shippers and Eddie fans in general pointing and screaming "see!"

Like we didn't have campaigns for Barb and Bob and (Billy). If someone's favorite character has died, don't be dicks when they want them to be resurrected a la Jim Hopper. Because that right there is the main reason people will still hold out hope until the final scene fades to black, okay?

I guess this one is just be nicer to each other, okay?

4- *sob* like holy fuck. Dustin you sweetheart. The long hair, the torn Hellfire t-shirt, the rings. The horns and sticking out his tongue. That poor boy needs several hugs STAT! And of course, people can't leave well enough alone on Facebook, I couldn't tell you how many of the comments were "steddie fans are going to make this all about them, aren't they?" Even though there wasn't a single comment by a Steddie making it about Steve/Eddie. But so many eye rolls. The other half were death threats against Noah Schnapp.

Which brings me to...

5- Noah Schnapp said some really shitty things about Zionism and the attack on Gaza. There is no escaping that. He said them. He double downed on them. And while yes it sucks he said those things, let's not forget he's still young and stupid. He's barely 18/19 years old. I remember being that age and saying stupid fucked up shit, and hoo boy does this make me grateful I was well into adulthood when the internet became a thing (24ish).

There are a lot of reasons to be upset by his comments and I get that. But death threats and calls for his dismissal/boycotts just seems excessive to me.

One, because the story began with a kidnapped little boy and a runaway little girl. If you get rid of one of them especially this close to the end it would fuck up the story. Now if there was more than one season left, sure. But this is literally the end. And for all we know, Will's character may already be doomed by the narrative. So calling for it now isn't go to do anything. Especially since they already had all the scripts written and would have finished filming if it hadn't been for the strikes.

Two, one person on the cast said something stupid and hurtful and you want to boycott the entire show for it? Like, what did David Harbor, Joe Keery, Maya Hawke, Millie Bobby Brown and all the others do to deserve you boycotting their show? If the last season tanks it could seriously hurt their careers, but hey Noah Schnapp said something bad, so fuck them?

I'm going to stop there, because this is another one I can go on and on about, but yeah. Don't hurt other people in your rush to vilify an 18 year old.

6- Eduardo Franco recently said that he didn't get a call so he didn't think he would be back. He was sure that ship had sailed.

Fans are upset, naturally. Argyle was a sweetheart and deserves better than to be cut from the story like that.

But thanks to the incident with David Harbor and Jim Hopper supposedly being dead, a lot of fans are saying he's only saying that because it's a "secret" he's coming back. Which would make sense for Eddie or any of the other character died. Martin Brenner, for example, but not Argyle. There would be no need for subterfuge. Plus, he would already be out in Georgia if he was coming back.

It's sad that he was done dirty this way, but if they split up the filming like they've done before there is still a chance he might get to come back, but as far as the current filming is concerned, yeah Argyle isn't coming back.

***

Just... be kind to each other. Remember that the other people on the end of the URL is an actual person with feelings. That people can like what they like so if they aren't hurting you, don't hurt them, okay?

#my writing #stranger things #ladykailitha rants #tw wank #fandom wank #season 5

[sketchyslushies]

Posting this here bc it’s the only place where ppl ik irl don’t follow me!!

Seabound fic!!! Kinda angst ig? It’s my first time writing a fic so don’t judge too bad ><

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Kinda spoilers for Seabound!!! And mainly Jay and Kai w a bit of Cole (not shipping!)((ok maybe VERY MINOR lava coded)) (((like blink and you miss it)))

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“She was my SISTER.”

Kai snapped, his eyes glaring straight at Jay. A silence fell over the ninja, none of them really knowing what to say. They’d never admit it, but they were useless without Nya. The team had struggled to stay civil in the beginning, and the cracks were starting to reform. It was only when Nya had become a ninja when they started realizing their groups potential. Kai’s stare stayed sharp on Jay, Jay looking back with his nervous yet persistent eyes. Kai just didn’t understand. He didn’t care. He didn’t know Nya like Jay did. He didn’t love her like Jay did. No one did. The others had gone back to normal life, albeit separated. But Jay, he stayed behind. He waited for her to come back. He knew that she would.

Jay would never know this, but Kai cared about Nya more than he cared about himself. If he really thought about it, he had practically raised Nya. She was his little sister, the reason he kept going when he had lost everything else. She was his light in the dark, the reason he even became a ninja in the first place. But he was too proud to say that, too arrogant to admit it.

“You didn’t even cry at her funeral.” Jay said, his electric eyes finally looking away from Kai’s. The other ninja all glanced at each other, stuck between interfering and letting Jay and Kai settle this themselves. It had only been a year since they all last saw each other, yet you’d assume they’d never met before. Tension spread throughout the room, thick enough to cut it with a knife. “It’s like you wanted her dead.”

“Jay, that’s enough.” Cole said, stepping in front of Kai to try to stop any more discourse. Jay was even dumber than everyone thought if he was purposefully egging Kai on. “We all miss Nya, and fighting about it won’t bring her back.” Jay looked away from Cole, scoffing, but backing off. Even he knew he was going too far.

“Whatever,” he said, shoving his hands in his pockets and walking away. “I’m going back to the lighthouse, it’s not like we’re doing anything anyway.” Jay reached for the mechanical door’s button, a hot flame burning his hand. “Ow! What the hell?!” He turned around to see Kai, his aim still good as ever. “What was that for, asshole!?” Jay sneered, not noticing Kai’s obvious anger rising. He walked up to Kai, pushing Cole out of the way. His words came out in a jumbled mess. “I seriously don’t get your problem, Kai. You didn’t give a shit about her when she was alive, and you clearly don’t care now that she’s gone. You’re just upset someone’s finally pointing out the fact that you only care about yourse-“

“Do you ever just shut the fuck up?!” Red screamed, punching Blue in the face. Jay fell to the ground, unable to react quickly enough before Kai threw in a few more punches. “You have no idea,” he shouted, “no FUCKING idea how much I care about Nya! Shut your stupid ass up before you say something you don’t know anything about!” Kai’s stature towered over Jay. Sure, he was only a few inches taller, but he was stronger and Jay knew he wouldn’t be able to do much held down to the ground. The other ninja wanted to step in, but couldn’t help but feel like Jay deserved this a bit. They really did all miss Nya, they just didn’t mourn like Jay did. He just didn’t get that. Kai’s fist would meet Jay’s bloodied face just a few more times before Kai paused. Just as he was about to land another punch, he stopped himself. Something he’d never done before. Jay looked up at Kai, noticing a difference in his expression. His dark red eyes were watering. His face stuck between anger and sadness. Jay felt a droplet of water fall onto his face. Was Kai…crying? That can’t be right. Kai’s never cried before. Was there even enough water in his system to do so? The team kind of just assumed his body heat had been too hot to manage water, but never really questioned it. Jay quickly scurried away from under Kai, leaving him still stuck in a punching position. He wiped his eyes, but the tears wouldn’t stop coming. “I loved Nya more than anything in the world, Jay. I did. She was all I had for YEARS. Do you know how much it destroyed me when she left? How much it bothered me when everyone asked how YOU were doing? How YOU were handling her death? No one asked me how I was feeling with my sister dying,” he sniffled, rubbing his eyes and looking towards the ground. “I had to keep it together. If not the team, but for me. I was the face man, the cool one. A little loss wouldn’t do much to me, they said.” His voice warping in and out of a whisper and a sniffle. “I would do anything to get her back, Jay. You don’t even know how far I’d go for her.” Jay had never seen Kai like this. None of the ninja had. The fire ninja, the most dramatic of them all, looked so small in this moment. So vulnerable. His tear stained face was hardly visible to the team, yet everyone could tell exactly how he looked.

Jay stood up and stumbled towards Kai. His bruised body was staggering, struggling to keep upright. He kneeled by Kai, getting to his level. Cole and Zane carefully kept close, just in case Jay was about to get his revenge. Instead, he positioned Kai’s shoulders up to get him to sit upward. He got a really clear view of Kai’s face, his eyes and nose red, his tears smudging the dark eyeshadow he swore he didn’t have on. Jay wiped his tears away, before punching him back in the cheek. Cole practically ran up to Kai. After all, he did always have a soft spot for his firecracker. But, before he could stop Jay from hitting him again, the smaller boy pulled the bigger one into a hug. Blue’s arms wrapped around Red, a small voice muttering out a simple, “I’m sorry.”

Eyes wide open, Kai was surprised. Before he could say anything, he subconsciously tightened his grasp around the curly haired ninja, digging his face into his dark curls and letting his tears fall.

“I hate you.”

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Hope it was an ok read!! Lmk how you liked it/id there’s anything I can work on!

#ninjago #lego ninjago #jay ninjago #kai ninjago #ninjago fic #lego ninjago fanfic #ninjago fanfiction #ninjago seabound #angst #short fiction #short story #fanfic #lavashipping #ninjago angst

[megaderping]

Saw a rather mean post last night, and genuinely, I do not understand how people can play Persona 5 (particularly Royal), and come out thinking Akechi genuinely hates Joker when Morgana outright states for the audience, "You don't really hate Joker, do you?" Akechi laments how they didn't meet a few years earlier and how they could've been "great rivals, perhaps even friends." o_O Like... is this a vanilla thing? I genuinely don't get it. The interrogation room wasn't even his idea (SIU director mentions as much). It's not even about the ship- the game spells out that their bond is more complex, and it just so happens that a lot of people like to explore it as one. Even as platonic, tho, there's a shit ton of depth. Idk, any time I see discourse (especially people making fun of Shuake fans and stuff), I just question how many people actually paid attention to the dialogue. Even the "I hate you speech" reads as him being extremely emotionally constipated and conflicted. Plus, y'know...

Very hateful. Sure. :p Idk, maybe certain playthroughs of the game remove all those moments where the game spells out that they have a special bond (Maruki even states it isn't based on hatred, but that's only if you get his third awakening). Just wish people would get off their high horses, if anything. Sometimes I see people get really condescending about liking Akechi or liking Shuake, and like... just block the tags if you don't like these things instead of posting untagged ship/character bashing and making fun of fans? At least have the decency to tag it as something that Shuake fans can filter because some of those posts are really mean-spirited. :/ You think we haven't heard it all before? I may be new to the fandom, but I have heard that this BS has been going on for years.

I don't think it really matters if there are "healthier" ship options because some of us prefer the messiness, the depth, and complexity. It's not for everyone, and I respect favoring more straightforwardly sweet and wholesome dynamics or wishing your favorite pair got more spotlight. I'm a Riku and Kairi shipper in Kingdom Hearts, for crying out loud. :P I get it, but you're not gonna win anyone over to your side by telling them that [insert ship here] is better. In my case, it makes me more averse because of how deeply their relationship in the confidant, engine room, and third sem touched me and seeing people go "yeah, but you are wrong for feeling that way, THIS is better" is just... yeah. :/ (Also, people gotta learn the difference between hitmen and serial killers. Akechi is the former, which I've ranted about before, but yeah.)

So many fandom problems could be solved if people didn't take the piss out of others for shipping something they don't personally like. x_x; By all means, feel the way you feel, it's okay to not like things.

#goro akechi #persona 5 #persona #persona 5 joker #joker p5 #akira kurusu #ren amamiya #not naming names but the amount of times i see people shit on shuake fans while ignoring blatant dialogue in the game #i was just trying to look for cool akechi posts last night #every time people make fun of shuake fans i like the other joker ships less and less tbh #the ship and the character mean so much to me #discourse

[foxyyaoguai]

💫 Announcement: New MDZS/The Untamed Subreddit 💫

I'm excited to announce that I took over as the mod of the r/mdzs subreddit! I plan to make it into an alternative for r/MoDaoZuShi, whose mods aren't active anymore.

About this community This is a community for the danmei novel "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation". Discussions about the novel and all adaptations, including The Untamed, the donghua, the audio dramas, the manhua, the manga, etc. are all welcome.

I have the following vision for this subreddit:

Give newcomers an easy entry into the MDZS fandom through the subreddit's wiki.

Provide links to fandom events, discords, fanfic references, and more. The MDZS fandom is huge and it's easy to lose track!

Create a safe environment for fans to share and discuss without fear of discourse or harassment.

Create threads where we can recommend and search for MDZS fanfiction. Here is a link to the first Fanfiction Mega Thread.

Weekly or Monthly discussion posts, based on activity and interest.

I have gathered a lot of resources throughout my time in the MXTX/MDZS fandom which I want to share with all of you. All collections are a WIP and you're welcome to add more!

Overview of MDZS, MXTX, and danmei Discord Servers

List of MXTX/MDZS Event Pages The list includes links to danmei meetups, big bangs, exchanges, ship weeks, prompt fests, event calendars, zines, and more.

Resources for fanfiction authors This list includes links to chapter and episode summaries, location guides, hanfu guides, language guides, speech pattern analysis, and more.

Places to buy Danmei and MDZS Merch in Tokyo, Japan

Links to the explicit manhua panels in English and Chinese

What makes this subreddit different than the MoDaoZuShi subreddit?

I’m aware that the MoDaoZuShi subreddit exists and I used to be active there. Unfortunately, the moderation team has been inactive for a long time. I applied as a mod and sent a message to the moderators, hoping that I could improve things, but never received a reply, which is why I requested to take over as the moderator of this subreddit. I hope r/mdzs can become a safe alternative for fans of MDZS with an up-to-date wiki page and active moderation.

Please help this subreddit grow by sharing this announcement. I hope to see you in r/mdzs! :)

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions! You can leave a comment here or reach me through Modmail on reddit.

#mdzs #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #mdzs fandom #mdzs fanfiction #mdzs fanfic rec #wangxian #mdzs fanfic #mdzs fanart #mdzs subreddit #mdzs events #mdzs merch #mdzs discord #danmei #danmei fandom #danmei events

[olderthannetfic]

https://olderthannetfic.tumblr.com/post/739381076510785536/so-it-seems-our-flag-means-death-has-not-been#notes

I liked OFMD and I'm sad it's not getting renewed, but I agree that the fandom was especially toxic, even by the standards of currently popular slash-heavy fandoms. I wanted to read fic after s1 ended the way it did, and I read a little bit, but along with it having all the tropes that I can't stand in a lot of what is currently big with the MSF crowd (and that I'd been happy to have a reprieve from in my current main M/M fandom), the toxicity of the online fandom discourse made me quickly realize it was one that I was going to discuss among my current-friends-from-other-fandoms who also watched it, and my sister who watches it, and pretty much ignore the rest of the Internet. It was such a perfect storm of everything awful, from people who are overly invested in it to an unhealthy degree (I think I realized I wasn't gonna be active in the larger fandom around a month or so before the s2 renewal announcement, when I saw earnest PSA tweets telling people to "stop threatening suicide in HBO's replies if they don't renew OFMD"), to bombarding and parasocial obsessions with the creators and actors, to all the classic "anti" and purity police crap that plagues anything that gets popular on here.

The fandom it reminds me the most of, honestly, is Yuri on Ice fandom at its peak in early-mid 2017. Again, a show I love, but a fandom I absolutely do not miss. In some ways they are kind of similar shows: ones with canon M/M romances where they were not billed as that, and they were hinted from early on but people didn't trust it due to years of dealing with queerbaiting, where that sort of thing slowly crept up on people and then became the defining feature of how it was discussed everywhere. I wonder if there's a particular level of insanity that that type of thing breeds in its fans - or maybe, more broadly, "canon M/M with a large female fanbase." Like, you don't see this kind of thing in canon M/M stuff that's mostly watched by queer men rather than women, but there are shades of the insanity I also remember from Glee fandom (I was more active on the F/F side of things there, which had its own unhinged drama, but the Klaine vs. anti-Klaine stuff was so explosive that it was hard not to notice it if you were anywhere in that fandom, like a mushroom cloud in the distance). But YOI and OFMD do seem very... singular in the particular kind of obsession that they generate.

And I really wish people would shape the fuck up, because if they're going to act like this over and over again, that's just going to de-incentivize showrunners to make shows like this for that audience.

Driving Con O'Neill off Twitter was one of the worst parts of it, too. There was something so refreshingly earnest about how much he embraced the fandom, even the weirdest parts - saying with regard to NSFW fanart that "art is art" and retweeting stuff like his character in a crop-top that said "babygirl." It was so nice to see an actor who didn't usually have that kind of following embrace it wholeheartedly rather than steering clear. ....And then people had to be awful and creepy and obsessive and he left Twitter. I bet he's going to be a lot more skeptical of dealing with fans in the future!

--

It's not just the canon m/m aspect: it's the wholesomeness.

Yes, yes, they're all evil pirates, I agree, but watching S1 did give me the feeling of something that was supposed to be very progressive and light-hearted in particular ways. I don't think that's bad, but it does tend to attract some very over-sensitive fans with some very rigid expectations.

It's sadly par for the course that one of the random side character actors is the fun one and people are jackasses and desperately want the leads they ship to be the fandomy ones and/or just start creeping on any actor they can get a reaction from.

[xx-slug-xx]

(Sorry, brain dump ahead)

I need to tell y’all something, but I feel like only my older followers will understand what I’m talking about

When I was writing my informative paper on proshipping and anti shipping, including all the arguments for and against each side, I realized something very important.

I have family that I live with. I have friends with their own families. I have pets. I have a job now with coworkers who I care about. And while none of these things give a shit about fiction and internet morals (hell, I’ve had conversations with just about everyone I know about this stuff, and we all agree for the most part), I would give a shit if I was doxxed and put the people in my life in danger. I realized that if I post that document, and the right people saw it, I would put them in danger. I’m not willing to be a martyr for fandom drama. I’ve seen what antis are capable of doing, I’ve seen how they’ve indirectly killed people and how they’ve directly ruined lives. I don’t want that. I care about, not only my own well being, but also the people who I care most about. That’s not to say that anti harassment and anti censorship aren’t important to me, by any means. But my real life takes precedence over my internet life.

If there’s one thing I learned from that paper I wrote (but didn’t post), it’s that the internet is cruel and unjust. It’s that I could never feel comfortable with myself if I labeled myself as an anti. I made it clear that I’m proship, and that paper I wrote is the reason I’ve come to this conclusion. I did my own reaserch, form an unbiased standpoint, while choosing to side more with antis, and I came out of it as proship. My tastes in fiction have not changed. But my understanding of the topic did change. That paper has nearly a year’s worth of research put into it, and it would piss people off. It would, more importantly, piss off antis. I’ve seen what happens when antis get pissed, and I’ve been on the receiving end of the mild version of it. Many times. I’m not willing to go through the version where they don’t hold back. My paper included many documented examples of it, and since the time of writhing it, there have been so many more. I’m not going to be another one of those people who have their lives ruined over stupid fandom discourse.

It’s more than just internet drama to me though, regardless. I know that this is more than just fandom. At its core, it’s all forms of fiction and what is and is not acceptable. It’s about bullying and harassment, and how it keeps getting worse as time goes on. Not just internet harassment either. It’s happening in the American school system every day, people I knew when I was in high school were forced to drop out, get their ged, or do online schooling because of the real world harassment they were receiving. The way that my generation, and the generation bellow me, views other people is appalling. Bullying is just “funny”, and I can’t stand it. The internet is at the core of this issue, of course. It’s taught impressionable minds that other people are like npcs. Cancel culture has taught us that if you step out of line, even for non-issues, then you are the scum of the earth and deserve what’s coming to you. And if you see someone who steps out of line, you need to be ruthless. It’s better to attack other people, so long as the negative attention isn’t on you. Even the older generations are affected. This isn’t something we should be ignoring, but we are. Antis in fandom spaces might seem like it’s not a big deal, but it’s a rabbit hole that runs deeper than people realize.

My paper made me realize this, it made me realize that society sucks, the government sucks, the internet sucks, and I’m pro-freedom to do whatever you want so long as it doesn’t hurt real people. At the end of the day, I’m not going to be a martyr. I refuse that role. You shouldn’t want to be a martyr either. Be kind to people, that’s what’s important. Create spaces where people know they are safe to do whatever the hell they want so long as it doesn’t hurt real people. Stand up for real people who are being hurt by others. Stop harassment, stop hate. I’m tired of seeing people hurt each other over fictional characters who don’t exist. Don’t put yourself or others in danger. Block people who spread hate, and don’t give them a platform to be hateful.

I’m rambling, but for me, there’s no real good outcome unless people suddenly realize that being hateful because of fiction is dumb. I’ve become tired of trying to explain to antis why it’s dumb, there’s no way to talk to many of them. I also can’t risk the safety of others for an issue that only I’m focusing on. There’s other problems in the world, and in my personal life. I just want to be kind, at the end of it all. And I want others to feel the same. But then again, just being kind to others would solve a lot of the worlds problems if everyone followed that rule.

I need to shut up now though, sorry for the dump lol

#rambles #proship #profic #anti anti #profiction #comship #anti censorship #anti harassment #fandom discourse

[sokkastyles]

Whenever I see anti-zutara posts, I honestly feel anxious and because I have intrusive thoughts it worsens my anxiety, so I get worried if they're right. Sometimes I feel like deleting my blog and now that I have gotten messages telling me to off myself I want to lie low but also it is not really stopping me from posting just more stressed to do so. So how do you handle these antis and people who send you hate messages without feeling anxious?

If it really bothers you to see those kinds of posts, I would recommend filtering the relevant tags. I try to tag any posts with negativity that I reblog as "the discourse" so you can block that tag if those posts stress you out to see.

I'm sorry people are sending you those messages. Just know that even if they are "right," nothing justifies sending you harassing messages, so you automatically have the high ground here. Nobody who acts that way towards you over fictional characters has a right to tell you about your own morals.

There's actually not really anything anyone can say about zutara that would make it wrong to ship them, but even if there was, you don't have to answer to anyone else about why you ship something. I actually have a lot of ships in other fandoms that would be considered much worse, but I literally do not care what other people think about what I ship, or how I engage in fiction. It's not for them to decide things about me based on what I ship. But as ships go, zutara is actually very tame in the world of "problematic" ships. And I'm old enough that I've seen many of the same arguments used against ships that are much darker on the spectrum, so when people use the same arguments to discredit zutara it just kind of makes me laugh.

What I recommend you to do to combat these things, for your own mental health, is to try not to get involved in arguments. Block the relevant tags and users if you have to. And read widely. Expose yourself to a lot of different media and you'll see that 1) the world is much bigger than antis think it is, and 2) that negative people will apply the same arguments over and over again. That doesn't mean you have to listen to them.

#zutara #the discourse

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

Am I the asshole in this situation??

First of all I'm so sorry for bringing t/b discourse here but this has been so gd annoying I need help. And all this is is on twitter-retro etc.

I'm 100% here for switch please keep in mind. Idc what anyone else likes it's food I'll eat all of it. But this fandom. Oh this fandom. So here's the context, it's a anime show with a really popular almost canon mlm ship, one of them is crazy beautiful and the other one is a big muscular man. Naturally the fandom like the pretty man as bottom and the muscular man as top. Let's call this DC. Not all people tho and it's the problem.

See, there are some creators who hate the above dynamics so much they make the muscular man a woman, sometimes trans which is fine but they always babygirl him, call him wifey, use she/her pronouns, go all out to make the pretty man over the top masculine so he can be top while making the canon masculine man demure little wife. Note that they're both really tall but D has long hair so they always make him wear accessories to feminize him. I made friends with some authors who used to like switch, they wrote DC back then and they were so good. They were all into switch too. Over the years they became really hateful of DC dynamics and started to exclusively write CD, talk about CD only, rt CD art exclusively.

This is still fine, they're like 10 people out of thousands who don't care, and most people don't care. Until one day recently when I said it was better to ship switch. Those people started clowning me, saying it's their right to exclusively like whatever, write whatever, started ignoring how the show portrays them. They wrote literal threads detailing how to how use tags as if no one knows, shaded people who said they didn't care and would use whatever tags they liked. It got to a point I had to ask them to stop, they started saying I was harassing them and accused the fandom of harassing them on anon and ao3. When I said it Doesn't Matter they said it was racist to suggest that, telling me to block if I didn't like their posts. I could not make them understand how fetishistic it was, just because Japanese fans do this doesn't mean it's good or we have to follow? They somehow figured out who I was and blocked me, kicked me out of a server we were in together, so I lost mutuals and some followers too.

Then they started answering my asks unseriously like "I write CD to piss YOU off" "can't project on the twink like yall" and started insulting switch fans calling us hypocrits. There isn't much CD content to begin with how can I share more of those? Whatever is available they make it heteronormative like that. One of them deadass called me an asshole for "harassing" them just because I said it's rude to block people over t/b dynamics when no one is bothering anyone, because these people are always blocking anyone posting DC and making a bubble of CD only fans. This is bound to make them lose track of canon but who cares anymore. They keep complaining about being harassed for liking CD and yes some fans probably send anon hate but that doesn't mean any critic of CD is harassment?

Tell me how I'm the asshole here for suggesting they stop obsessing over t/b this much? How am I the asshole when I'm the one they all blocked and apparently I'm a bad guy because I followed some popular accounts who post DC and said some weird things about D which I didn't even know about.

What are these acronyms?

#aita #am i the asshole #ship discourse

[dreamchasernina]

you’re so real for that post bc i really feel that some ppl dont get atla at all. Like this show is a masterpiece and you look at the fandom and it’s just a shipping war??? And ppl hating on aang and it’s like. damn. and I feel like the bad netflix remake just exacerbated this feeling bc of how it’s unequivocally worse than the original, yet people defend it as if small changes don’t have huge consequences for the narrative. and yeah i completely see where you’re coming from. This show means a lot to me and it’s weird seeing people treat it like a flash fandom on the week without putting much thought into its themes and characters

Yup, you got it. The discourse is filled with “this character is bad” or “this character should’ve done that” or “this character is weak” and it’s so disheartening. Is this all you took away from this amazing show?

All the character bashing, like Katara or Aang…If all you can say about the main character of the show is how bad they are, why do you even like the show? People say Katara sucks because she’s still traumatized from her mom’s death, or Aang sucks because he’s childish and not aggressive enough. That’s who they are! If you don’t like it, just say it wasn’t for you and move on. Seriously, if I hated the main character so much I would not consider myself a fan of the show (LoK for instance. I’m not a fan of Korra so I don’t like that show but I would also never ever go out of the way to tell everyone how bad Korra is, just let people enjoy things!).

Especially when people feel the need to hate on Aang to make their own ship justified. Like, ship whoever you want, who cares, but why do you need to hate on a character just because he’s not your taste and you want the girl to end up with someone you like more? Just say - Aang is not my cup of tea and I’d like Katara to end up with Zuko. That’s great, have fun. I ship Kataang with all my heart but I love Zuko and you will never ever see me go into a Zutara tag and hate all over their ship…like, get a life people!

But that’s not even the worst I’ve seen in this fandom, people miss character arcs completely, rewrite them to fit their own narratives, focus on all the mistakes those characters made, instead of looking at how those characters learned from them, and it’s just exhausting. I love being a part of a fandom and sharing my thoughts and theories but this is just straight up missing the point of the show completely.

People want to see everything in black and white when the show is the complete opposite of that. People say - Roku didn’t kill his best friend so he’s the worst Avatar. Or Korra lost her past lives so she the worst Avatar. Or Aang is selfish for not killing Ozai so he’s the worst avatar. If you want to watch a show with perfect characters that don’t have any depth, flaws or desires of their own, maybe this isn’t the show for you.

Go watch the Netflix version, I guess, no one has any depth there, you’ll forget all about it in like a month but that’s probably for the best.

#atla #avatar: the last airbender #avatar the last airbender #avatar #aang #the legend of korra #zuko #avatar aang #Katara #kataang #zutara

[electronickingdomfox]

"The Prometheus Design" review

Novel from 1982, by Sondra Marshak & Myrna Culbreath. I didn't like any novel by these authors, and this one is just as bad. The writing seems less messy though, except at the very end, when they start with the philosophical, unintelligible discourses. But otherwise, it's pretty much in line with the old Bantam books. There are also continous references and throwbacks to the old episodes, despite the novel being set post-TMP, which gives the impression of a lack of fresh ideas. The previous Pocket novel ("The Covenant of the Crown") captured much better the feel of the older, more mature characters from the movies.

The plot involves aliens that are experimenting with humans to prove the point of "The Enemy Within": that the strive for greatness in humans comes hand in hand with their most violent impulses. This is what the novel calls "the Prometheus Design". And even if I can see the theme of reaching for greatness and surpassing the gods in the Prometheus myth, I fail to see what it has to do with "aggression" (after all, it's not Prometheus or the humans who are aggressive in the myth; it was the gods who punished the titan). Whatever, guess the authors liked the ring of it.

The main problem is the characterization. Kirk is again this submissive wimp, while Spock is this over-powered, authoritarian (and pretty obnoxious) character. And the plot device by which Kirk is stripped of command, so it's transferred to Spock, is just ludicrous. It's obvious the authors wanted so bad to push a dom/sub dynamic into their relationship, which is, in my opinion, completely antithetical to Kirk and Spock's friendship. Vulcans are again the coolest in the galaxy; humans suck again. In fact, the way Vulcans are portrayed as supremacists that look with such contempt at humans, I don't understand why they joined the Federation in the first place... What happened with IDIC, and Spock's gentle, understanding nature? I don't know. As for McCoy? Well, I guess he trails behind Kirk and Spock...

Spoilers under the cut:

The Enterprise is investigating a series of riots and disappearances in the planet Helvan, when the landing party (Kirk, McCoy and a few others) are approached by a different kind of aliens (named the no-mouths because... they have no mouths). The no-mouths extend their finger-tentacles and probe their victims all over (WHAT!!?). And afterwards, the victims fall unconscious and have lapses of memory, associated with feelings of rage and shame.

Back in the ship, Kirk has a couple of nightmares after the encounter (though in general, he's not any worse than other times when the ship fell under alien influences). Nonetheless, a Vulcan Admiral called Sevaj (who is like the most badass, awesome Vulcan ever) comes onboard and seizes command of the Enterprise and the mission, just like that. Sevaj determines that Kirk is unfit for command, and that all humans who were approached by the aliens are also unfit. But not Vulcans, of course: they're immune to the effect (proof? he gives none, might as well have pulled this out his ass). So the only choice for Kirk is relinquish command to Spock, which he does immediately, since he lacks any backbone in this novel. You may wonder what kind of Captain is Spock. After his encounter with V'Ger, and his understanding of "this simple feeling", and the importance of emotions, and all that, he should have mellowed a little, right? Wrong! As soon as Spock seizes power, he becomes a complete fascist, falls into full "Vulcan command-mode" (WHAT!!?), and starts treating Kirk like crap, suddenly addressing him just as "Mr. Kirk". Okay, let me make an aside: this is NOT how things work. For starters, it should have been McCoy the one who can determine whether the Captain is fit or not for command, not some random dude, awesome Admiral or not. And if unfit, Kirk could have been confined to sickbay, or his quarters, or if truly problematic, to the brig. But that doesn't mean he's suddenly stripped of rank, and can be ordered around, and even punished!, by someone with a lower rank, like Spock.

Nonsense aside, Sevaj explains that the sudden riots, disappearances and accelerated development, that are observed in Helvan and other planets, are all related with some mysterious aliens that are experimenting with aggression in living beings (the so-called "Prometheus Design"). And these experiments will soon destroy the galaxy if they're not stopped. Thus, the Enterprise has to return to Helvan. At this point, the novel spends a good while describing Kirk playing chess with Spock and Sevaj (but he sucks at chess because he's dumb human, and we learn that Spock let him win all those past times). And then Kirk engages in some sort of homoerotic combat/dance with Sevaj (and he also sucks at it, because he's weak human). I don't know, there are lots of invented Vulcan shenanigans and mumbo-jumbo in this part. After one of these training sessions, Spock is changing clothes inside a replicator machine, that creates and destroys clothes around one's body (WHAT!!?), when the machine malfunctions and almost kills him. And Spock is left naked, just so you know. There are several more murder attempts on Spock and Sevaj, and Kirk is the principal suspect, because of the alien influence. Though to be honest, the two Vulcans are so obnoxious, that I'd suspect anyone in the crew as the murderer...

Back in Helvan, Sevaj and Spock beam down alone to learn more about the no-mouths. Despite their superiority, they're captured immediately and strapped to experimental tables to be dissected (and Spock is naked again). So Kirk, McCoy, Uhura and Chekov go to the rescue, and manage to capture one of the no-mouths to interrogate him. Needless to say, Kirk gets zero gratitude from the Vulcans, and instead is threatened with more punishment for not following orders blindly (sigh).

Kirk must be addicted to punishment, though, because he disobeys again when he interrogates the no-mouth. From him, he learns that these creatures are simply following orders from other, higher beings: the true designers of the experiment. Kirk is also shown the path to these new aliens' lair.

In the last part, Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Sevaj go find the designers to make them see reason. They're captured, Kirk has sex with one of the female designers because reasons, and kisses other female designer for reasons too. Also, the designers turn Spock and Sevaj into giants, and force them to fight to the death... while half naked. The aliens explain why their experiment is so important to avoid the destruction of their own race. Well, I say "explain", but in the end I didn't understand much of their reasons. Finally, the heroes convince them to stop their experiments through some "power of friendship" speech, so the aliens leave. The End.

And I'm sorry if this review seems disjointed, but this novel left my brain pretty disjointed too.

Spirk Meter: 9/10*. Kirk and Spock share a permanent mind-bond. At one point, Spock refers to Kirk as t'hy'la (and the novel clarifies that he's using the term with multiple meanings). There are constant comments about how strong and special is Kirk and Spock's "friendship", even suggesting that the aliens chose them as experiment subjects because of their unique link... And I'm probably forgetting some examples; it's more like a continous obsession with each other. I'm not giving it a 10, though, because other novels are more sincere and open, just plainly call love "love", and are not afraid to show it. Here instead, I get an impression of "denying the obvious". Like, there's an effort to hide the homoerotic intent behind Kirk and Spock's strained relationship, and Kirk's sudden womanizer tendencies towards the end.

There's a bit of Spones too, when Spock treats McCoy's wounds while caged, and eases his pain with a mind-link. But let's be honest, McCoy is more like a pet here.

*A 10 in this scale is the most obvious spirk moments in TOS. Think of the back massage, "You make me believe in miracles", or "Amok Time" for example.

#star trek tos #star trek novels #novel review #spirk #k/s