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nobodysdaydreams · 2 months

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OH AM I GONNA HAVE SOME FUN WITH THIS IF I EVER HAVE THE TIME TO WRITE FANFIC

(Or my reaction to Episode 61 of Wolf359: Brave New World).

Well gang, we did it. We've reach the end. Sorry for how my reactions went from super spaced out to speed running the finale in a number of days, but I did warn you that I'm just sporadic like that. Though I have been semi-putting Brave New World off, because as much as I want to know how Wolf359 ends, I don't want it to end. I love these characters. I want good things for them. As much as I hate what they did, I wish that Hilbert and Maxwell had gotten the chance to get the redemption arc that Jacobi got. Hilbert had plenty of opportunities, but Maxwell was young and its not fair. I don't know how much more sadness they are gonna throw at me, but I'm guessing its a lot and I can't listen to it all in one sitting, so I'm just mentally preparing myself.

I also don't want this to end because I've loved giving you guys these reactions. Thank you all for reading my rambles and enjoying them. It means a lot to me, and I hope you were entertained. Thanks for coming on this journey with me, and please know that the second this is over, I am gonna figure out how to unblock the wolf359 tags (I did it so long ago I forgot how I did it, oopsie-daisy), and I am am gonna be reblogging and going crazy over all your posts and fanart and stuff so I hope you're ready for that.

Plus finishing the podcast also means it's time for me to deliver on those fics I promised y'all, which have been very carefully written (in my head). I will write them out eventually, but if there is anything my tmbs mutuals will tell you, my wolf359 mutuals, it's that my ideas tend to lead to other ideas, which means my fics do tend to be a little long, but (based on the reviews I've gotten) worth the read. So it might take a while to get them on AO3, but when I do, I hope you enjoy them!

Tagging the mutuals who got me invested in this, and if you want to be tagged or untagged from these posts, lmk, or you can follow my blog or simply follow the tag "#bods wolf359 reactions". Anyone who has followed me for a while knows my updates are inconsistent, so I apologize in advance for that and for any spelling/grammar mistakes in my posts.

@sophieswundergarten @oflightningandstars @acollectionofcuriousreblogs @herawell @commsroom @lovelyladylavie

Episode 61: Brave New World

The fact that Brave New World was written in 1932 and Cutter and Pryce are old and the fact that the message of Brave New World is about humans losing their humanity...already we're setting the stage.

And based on Kepler's earlier declaration, why do I suspect that this is the part where Doug's daughter's life and Minkowski's husband's life are finally on the line. I know Cutter and Pryce won't hesitate to aim their guns at them (and probably the rest of the planet too).

That moment when you can't tell if Wolf359 starts with sad piano music, or if this is just an ad for another podcast.

Oh it's the intro. Hi Hera! Or Miranda...oh wait I genuinely can't tell if this is Miranda talking about herself or Hera talking about her.

Clouded eyes, weak heart, child genius, orphan, no friends...I see. Obsessed with making things stronger and better. Yeah, except for herself I bet. Oh. She made her friends. Because she could control them. "Never left her behind, never talked back, never were afraid of her...except when she wanted them to be." "The one thing she couldn't fix was herself" see I called it!

Until? Oh no. Marcus.

And Old Man? Almost as clever as her? "Hello little girl. I want you to make a doll for me. You're very best doll. It must look like a real person, and sound like a real person, and be a real person." "And if I can?" "Then you and I will fix the world. I will be young and you will be whole and the world will finally be everything it could be. Everything it should be."

Okay. Thoughts.

When I made my jokes about Pryce being Cutter's evil science girlfriend, I was not assuming a romantic relationship, I was trying to use that language to insult Pryce and Cutter by making them sound like the kids they hate so much in a frivolous, juvenile and toxic relationship. Then, I was told by a few of you that given this assumption, it’s important that I know that I shouldn't assume that Pryce met Cutter when she was young based on this story and it was meant to be "fairytale language", which does make sense given that Cutter being willing to call Miranda his "work wife" when he's known her since she was young enough to be his granddaughter is incredibly creepy.

I appreciate the clarification, but also, I really don't think it matters whether this is hyperbole or not. If it is, then okay. Pryce and Cutter's relationship is still weird. If it's not, then Cutter's a creep, what a surprise. Tell me something I don't know.

"And so they did. And everyone lived happily ever after. The end."

The fact that it's Cutter that interrupts Miranda's story to give that closing line and declare this the end adds to the creepiness. Miranda says what Marcus's promise to her was, but never says whether she agreed before Marcus jumps in with "and so they did". Also, if Miranda was dying, Cutter was her only chance at survival. It also sounds like she was a kid with a pretty messed up view of the world. Doesn't excuse anything she did, but see Cutter? THAT is how you give a good sad backstory, and she did it in five minutes. You spent a whole hour with Nash just so you could cry that the government took your precious telescope.

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"THAT'S the evil plan?" Care to fill us in Doug?

"That's THE plan, yes." Shut it Rachel. It's evil and you know it.

It's...so evil. And so...planned. Doug's words might be simple, Rachel, but sometimes simple is better. It gets to the point and cuts through the BS.

"It's real and it's happening" And ARE you happy about this Kepler? And why tell them?

Good question Kepler, why are you here? Please tell me you're going to take Rachel away.

"You're going to help" "of course I am" Are you Kepler? Oh please tell me he gets a redemption arc and betrays Cutter.

Does anyone want to fill ME in on the plan? No one? Okay. :(

"Where's the trust?" That's not for you, Rachel.

"I really don't like her" I don't either, Doug.

"What about Cutter's plan?" WHAT IS THE PLAN? WILL BOB AGREE TO IT? WHAT WILL WORK? WHAT WILL THEY DO?

We can't stop them, so let's see our families again. No, Minkowski, you can do this! I believe in you! You can't just go home, we have two hours left! That's plenty of time to stop them.

It's been a long...years.

I forget how long they've been up there. And that everyone on Earth believes they're dead.

And not do anything about WHAT? WHAT IS THE PLAN PLEASE FILL ME IN.

What was that sound?

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Oh Doug is in the comms room. Oh yikes. It's okay, Doug. We've all broken very expensive lab equipment before.

"Living in a cuckoo clock" you have no idea, Doug.

"I wouldn't do that." Is that Pryce or Hera? And yeah why is there gas?

"Good boy" oh good it's Hera. Hera calls him good boy, Pryce just calls him boy.

"Who are you?" OH THIS IS DOUG MEETING HERA FOR THE FIRST TIME. At first I thought that Doug...forgot her? Or something? I was confused.

Ultraviolet halo? Contraband cigarettes. 😂

"Just ask. I'm here to help." Aw that was sweet.

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Ew Rachel. I'm gonna start using "----" breaks to cut off sections.

"Actually he's in quite a lot of pain. Back to work." Always charming, Rachel.

"Thanks for saving our lives-" Kepler, that's a great question. What IS this? Where was the concern for brainwashed Jacobi or better still, WHERE WAS YOU CONCERN FOR MAXWELL? Or Jacobi dealing with her death?

"And do what? Get myself shot? Get you shot? No. I played the game." Was it worth it, Kepler?

"That's the lie you tell yourself. The truth? The truth is that you were afraid. And the only thing YOU did was try to save YOUR hide?"

Dang this dialogue is amazing.

"You're not wrong." "Which one?" "Both of you." This isn't YOUR conversation Rachel.

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Momentary weakness?

Oh my gosh, the good food too? Why does Cutter hit so many show Curtain parallels? He might torture, enslave, and kill people, but he's gonna get them a good meal first.

Good for you Doug, turning down the wine. I'm proud of him.

This is a sweet moment between Doug and Lovelace. I gotta say, since I'll be reacting to this section by section, it's nice that they have it broken up a little like this so I can reach a section and then get to a stopping point if I need to.

I'm just worried about who is going to die. These conversations feel like goodbyes.

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Minkowski. I know you miss your husband. But...yeah, ARE you ready to go back?

YEAH WE'RE DOING THIS! To borrow from Eris's words: "Let's beat the bad guys 🥳"

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Quiet Rachel.

LET'S GO MINKOWSKI. WHO CARES WHAT CUTTER AND PRYCE WANT?

Wait. Destroy a whole species?

Are they talking about humans?

...are they ecofascists? Eugenicists? Pryce is literally disabled, how the heck...

"Only stay if you have to." Well, it sounds like you all have to.

"Hera what did you say to her" "Something a friend once said to me" 🥰🥰🥰

"I'm starting to think these guys are my kind of stupid" GO JACOBI!

"Adorable corpses 🥰" Rachel you suck!

"Come with us. You're still people, you're still on our side, even if you don't think you are." Very true. What do you think Pryce and Cutter will do to YOU when they have what they want? They'll dispose of you too.

"You're allowed to make mistakes as long as at some point you admit that they're mistakes!" "I was wrong and people died. All I can do is not be wrong again" "You knew what you were getting into" "No I didn't. I didn't know I was getting into mind control and reducing people to nothing. There's a line. And you're almost out of chances to get on the right side of it." PREACH!

"There is no line. Forwards. Always forwards." FORWARDS TO WHAT RACHEL? WHY HAS NO ONE SHOT HER YET?

"Thank you, Daniel, and goodbye." Oh so that's how it is. Goodbye Kepler. I look forward to your last minute sacrifice.

Character arcs woven like a quilt.

"We're going to crush them" Yeah, let's do it!

A full reboot? Worth the risk? That kind of stuff always worries me.

Is this Maxwell's notes? It's hard to recognize the voice on the recording. "She really was something special" Oh it is Maxwell.

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Ah. Another flashback! Jacobi meeting Maxwell.

Looks like Kepler got an important text.

"Cool stuff with robots" good work Maxwell. The best scientists can always dumb it down.

"The Whiskey speech" 😂

"You're one of the best. You're gonna do great things. It's the last nice thing you'll ever hear from me. Except: you need anything I got you're back. No matter what happens, I've got your back. I'll take you up on that." 😭💔

Oh it's okay. Take my heart. I didn't need it.

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"Are they going to do the smart thing?" "Well who are we to deny them an agonizing death?" Shut it Cutter.

They put a tracker on Jacobi? See I knew Rachel was a snake. So is Kepler, but at least he's gonna take a bullet for someone or something. My money's on Jacobi, but I could be wrong.

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Yep. Eiffel logs everything.

"I never got the chance to say I'm sorry. YOUR DAD LOVES YOU, YOUR DAD LOVES YOU SO MUCH." 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔

"Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do something. You can go so far. I wish I could be there to see it. I love you Ann. Always and forever."

AKJLS;DJFKL;SJF;ALSKDJFA;KD

Time to go? Oh. The comms room? Oh, right. Poor Doug.

"One more day, and then we're done." This is so sad.

Wait...what is happening? OH SHE LIED. SHE'S TAKING EIFFEL HOME TO PROTECT HIM. SO HE CAN SEE HIS DAUGHTER? DON'T DO THIS TO DOUG! DON'T DO THIS TO ME.

"Go home Eiffel, hug your daughter" OH HE CALLED HER RENEE!

This leaves me with so much feeling.

Eiffel can't leave he's the main character. Who will make pop culture references? Who will save the day through the power of random associations, luck, and good intentions?😭😭😭

I hate that they the bad guys know exactly what happened too.

"I'm so sick of this happening!" Use too Doug.

Oh "For god's sake just let me change the flight plan!" So that's what the F stands for. The lore I've been waiting for.

"People need to know what's coming?" Minkowski...I get why you did what you did, but HERA DIDN'T GET TO SAY GOODBYE.

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Is this Minkowski's flashback?

Oh when Minkowski met Hera.

"I heard units prefer to go by their serial numbers..." "I don't" Good for you Hera!

I love this. I love these flashbacks, but they just make everything so much more sad!

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Ah. More piano music. Does this mean we're back to the bad guys, or...?

Is this Cutter playing the piano?

"The Tempest. Do read a book sometime. Is this the best use of our time?" Pryce and Cutter are really the most toxic people.

"A storm is coming. And on the other side..." "Oh Brave New World." "That has such people in it."

Yes, Pryce and Cutter. People. As in humans. As in: NOT YOU.

"How have they decided to throw their lives away?" "By destroying the device"

WHAT DEVICE? What are you talking about?

Heck yeah a harpoon! I hope Cutter gets it.

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"This is Minkowski. I love schedules and musicals and that man who I married." 😂 1-2-3-4-5? It was a good guess Doug. Would have worked in my fanfic.

Okay here comes Victor...

...um what is happening? What is this?

...a surprise party? Sounds fun! 🪩🥳

Oh right, the bio tracker. I'm happy to see Jacobi pulled one over on him. Now shoot him! Please tell me that was Victor that got shot.

They...they trapped him in the room. "Tell me this before I kick your ass" Why on Earth would he ever tell you anything Victor?

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Okay, so they are blowing up Pryce and Cutter's evil device, but...what is the device? What ARE they doing? Did I miss it? I'm sure they're doing something to enslave or kill all of humanity, but I'd like the specifics.

"The Hephaestus has almost fallen out of the sky so many times, it's hard to believe it's happening." Well...the show isn't over until it's over.

Is this a Lovelace flashback? A date? A date with who? Oh, Hilbert. Not that kind of date then. Oh, this is her introducing Hilbert to the crew he's going to betray.

"Prudent to keep things formal" to avoid the guilt.

Selburg. Once again with the constant fake names. Dmitri. Matthew.

Though I think Miranda has always had hers.

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Yeah Doug. You've listened to her say it so many times. This is like me trying to drive in my hometown. No, I wasn't paying attention in the car as a kid, I was not the one doing the driving. I just zoned out and we got from point A to point B by magic.

Oh, Minkowski. "Get up and do it already. You can do it."

Yes you can Doug. You are the main character. You are the guy that's gonna swoop in at the last second when Cutter pulls one over one them. So you CAN do it. I believe in you, Eiffel.

"Victor Uniform Lemma Charlie Alpha November VULCAN" I knew it must stand for something! Good work Doug!

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Oh dear. More of Pryce and Cutter's marriage falling apart.

"Time to change the world." Or you could not. Maybe you could just not.

WHY IS THE DEVICE RUNNING? WHAT DEVICE? WHY DOES HE NEED TWO MINUTES?

Please explain this? Oh of course he has a speech.

Oh he's talking to the dear listeners, not the Hephaestus crew.

Ah. The Decima virus. Thanks a lot Hilbert. DEPLOY THROUGHOUT THE EARTH? He wants to cause a pandemic????

Automatic, can't be stopped, destruction of human race? But why would the aliens care? Oh because Cutter wants them to talk to HIM? But the aliens prefer Doug.

As do most others it would seem. Hurts, doesn't it, Cutter? All those years of experience and work, and yet, you still just can't have what he has, can you?

Ah. It's Bob. Did he just shock Bob? No temporal jumps, no disintegration?

"Remarkable and cold" No Bob, you saw Doug! It's just them. They don't need to be cold.

Willing to disrupt species survival??? What piece of tech do they want? Surrogates?

They want to fill the world with people they can control?

"You can't make duplicates of our species." Bob, they are worst than you can ever imagine.

"We're going to make better humans." "That is not the way that-" "Random part out of the equation" That's a bad idea. Do you know how evolution works? Do you know the negative side effects that have come out of selective breeding of animals? The unintended consequences? To quote Miranda from earlier in the episode: READ. A. BOOK.

"Our Humanity" Gross.

HOW ARE THEY ACCEPTABLE? IT'S MUSIC. WHY ARE YOU THAT DESPERATE FOR MUSIC?

Oh here is comes. Betraying Rachel and Warren.

OH TELL HIM BOB.

"Your brains can't handle it without modification. I cannot with my limitations. Do you have Doug Eiffel?"

Hahaha...hahahahahahaha....HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA..... 😂😂😂😂

Oh boy...oh Cutter is gonna snap. If only Doug had just kept going...

Oh wow okay Cutter has lost it. What happened to emotionally playing the piano and giving speeches about how the time had come?

oh geez no, Doug is back. Doug, no, they need you for the evil plans. This is a good idea, but very bad timing.

"He wouldn't" Oh he WOULD. He really really would.

Show 'em how it's done Dougie Boy!

"I'll get it" No you will NOT Miranda.

Kepler, now is a great time to betray Cutter and Rachel. A really good time.

Also is Victor dead? I'm trying to keep track of how many bad guys are gone.

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"You're the only person who can receive the data Pryce and Cutter want" Oh dear.

"With my life darling, with my life" 🥹💕

So what is Hera going to do?

"Lets make sure at least someone makes it through this" YOU ALL NEED TO MAKE IT.

"Let's go get our idiot back" That's the spirit baby!

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Oh dear. Jacobi. "Terrific for an SI-5." Wow.

"I'm gonna win!" I hope so Jacobi. But it sounds very not good.

Oh and here's Doug. And um...other Doug. Aka Bob.

Bob. Do not do this.

That was it? "You shall not call me again" "No Bob. I shall not."

THEY KILLED BOB.

"I hate loose ends"

I mean, I saw that coming, but dumb idea. I'm SURE Bob's family will be cool with that! Oh right, he just...recreates himself. But this has got to be trippy for Doug because Bob takes his form. Imagine watching a clone of yourself die.

"Pryce is not right?" DANG IT DOUG, I WAS GONNA USE THAT PUN IN MY FANFICTION AND NOW I CAN'T (WELL MAYBE I STILL WILL WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS HERE).

"Let's make a deal 🥰" Wow Pryce is the worst. Again, very trippy how much she sounds like Doug.

Wait. GOING IN? What does. What does "going in" mean? Don't go in, I don't like going in?

Ah yes. Going into someone's mind. I've done that in my fics before too. Fun stuff. And um...it's because you're disorganized Doug, I hate to tell you.

"That was...that was...that was..." OH SHE DESTROYED THE MEMORY. OH SHE TOOK THE MEMORY?

This is...horrifying. She could take his daughter away. She could take Hera, Minkowski, and everyone and everything away.

HERA! HECK YEAH!

Oh my gosh is she actually here? Like as a person?

This is everything.

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Ah yes, confrontation with Cutter.

Cutter has modified his body or he has a magic shield.

He can catch bullets? Of course he can.

I wouldn't try hand to hand combat either. I bet he gave himself super strength.

There has to be a weak spot. He has to have a weakness. But what could it be...

...what is the opposite of a chai latte?

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Ah. Back to Jacobi.

Kepler this would be a GREAT TIME to come in and get your arc. "I'm not a good guy" oh Jacobi. What's happening now? Oh has he been pretending to lose this fight to buy them time? What is happening? It's hard to tell.

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She's always been interesting, Pryce! You’re just noticing now.

"You don't look like me." Disappointed, Pryce? Sad that she’s better than you?

And the fact that all these AI want human forms...this is so sad. They structured them based on human consciousness so of course they want human bodies and experiences, that's just cruel.

Wait Doug got beat up in the 2nd grade? The Star Wars Prequels? "I might be okay without that one" No one tell him about the sequels 😂😂😂

"Of course you can. You can do anything." 💕

"You and what army, 214?" The sounds in this really makes the fight sound super epic. One of my favorite parts of the whole thing.

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Oh gross not Rachel again. Why is she still here?

And Kepler. Dude, you wanna hurry it up? Grab your arc or go, the clock is a-ticking.

"We're changing what humanity can be." you suck Rachel.

Pulse beacon, half power? What does that mean? The signal wouldn't have made it back to Earth?

"We have tell Mr. Cutter." "Do we?" KEPLER THIS IS IT!

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!

He gave you a chance, Rachel. He gave you a chance. "After all, I am still a person. I'm on Jacobi and Minkowski's side. Even if they don't think I am"

And even if they never know you were.

Is she gonna blast him out the airlock? Rachel, you're dying, it's over! You were wrong! The best thing to do is let him live!

He's literally drinking as he goes out the airlock. My...my wish came true. But this isn't how I wanted it to... why now? Why like this? 💔

It's a true sacrifice though. Because even though no one will ever know, he still did the right thing.

You became more than just a Whiskey Boy in the end Kepler. You became so much more.

Rachel, no so much. You were never anything. It doesn't matter if Warren was not as good as you. Because now you're both dead. And your life, well...you were never anyone. Or at least, you haven't been anything or anyone for a long, long, time. So be quiet now.

Silence at last.

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HOW CAN CUTTER GET HER TO POINT HER GUN AT MINKOWSKI? WHAT...WHAT DID THEY DO?

Well this isn't good.

Ah yes. Back to Jacobi. Looks like Kepler's not coming to save him. But at least he took care of Rachel.

Explosives? Fireworks? Oh this is a party! 🎆🎇🧨

Well that was a grand surprise party! But um...does this mean Victor and Jacobi are dead now?

Ah back to Lovelace and Minkowski!

"It's...side wave radiation!" Okay, thank you Cutter, now we know what we need to shut down.

"Humans who do exactly what we tell them to do" "You're crazy"

Yeah. He is literally crazy.

OH SHE SHOT HER??? Oh no....Oh no please tell me SOMEONE makes it out of this.

What really did happen the night of Doug's junior prom? Sounds interesting.

Fishing with Dad? Okay these memories are getting personal.

Wait, what did Doug do?

What are they going to do? Oh they could delete the memories Bob put in there. But they need to find them before Pryce.

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Shut up about the stomach wound Cutter. No one cares. This isn't rewriting a person. And THAT'S NOT WHY PEOPLE CARED ABOUT HER YOU IDIOT. And without your intelligence and tech, who. are. YOU, CUTTER?

Renee Minkowski! YES! Tell him!

Lovelace you can fight this. I know you can.

Shut it Cutter. No one cares.

"Sooner or later, you're gonna do as your told" And sooner or later, you are gonna lose everything, Cutter.

"You really think I'm afraid of you?" "THE BEAUTIFUL THING IS I DON'T NEED YOU TO BE"

Please tell me they have the harpoon gun.

IT WAS THE HARPOON GUN? OH HECK YEAH!

"That's...not...how...this is suppose to..."

Yes, it is Cutter. Like you said. You know how these stories end. The good guys win. They might lose a lot in the process, but, they win.

Is he dead now, like, for real dead? I don't want to celebrate too early but MAN what a way to go.

He and Rachel even died in similar ways to. It's like they short circuited when they realized they didn't win.

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Ah Pryce. "I don't need to beat you. No matter how much I want to, no matter how much you deserve it, it wouldn't change anything. What I need to do is make sure you're not going to hurt anyone else again ever." That's right!

"I'm not going to hurt you." OH SAY THE CLIP YOUR WINGS LINE COME ON COME ON COME ON.

"Clip your wings a little. Goodbye Dr. Pryce."

So...Hera's gone now. So what is about to happen?

Oh no. Is she...is she gonna delete both their memories?

"Bye bye to my memories?" Oh Doug, oh poor Doug. His daughter, everything...oh Doug this sacrifice will not be forgotten. 🫡 This is so Milligan coded of him (@/tmbs mutuals).

"You can't. Don't do this." "Oooo...sorry buddy, we gotta" YEAH THROW IT BACK AT HER EIFFEL!

And goodbye. I hope you have a second chance with your daughter. I hope you never remember the trauma. All a bad dream. All a bad dream.

"Do you have any idea what you've...I'm sorry...what was I saying...where...where am I?" Oh my gosh the way her voice changed...and she apologized. Oh my gosh. She's literally a new person.

So...memories gone? Where does this leave her? Oh this will be fun in fanfics. Imagine having no memories, and people are weird about it, and then finding out that before you were basically the worst person to ever exist. How would you even mentally cope with that?

"Yeah commander, it's going." No, Doug! Doug!

"It was an honor, sir" Oh this is so sad.

"Hera...Hera I...I..." You know Hera. You were in his mind. Please tell me you know.

Oh. He's gone. 💔

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WHY IS RACHEL BACK I THOUGHT WE TOOK CARE OF THAT?

Oh it's her and Eiffel meeting, okay.

"Are you just asking if I'm the commander? Yes." I love Minkowski and Doug's friendship.

"Never use one word when ten will do" oh Doug...never change. Even if your memories are gone, I hope you find yourself again.

He didn't know you couldn't smoke in space? Oh Doug...at least now you can quit.

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"Do I know you?" Yes Doug. Yes you do.

She's briefing him. He...he doesn't remember Star Wars???

Well. At least he gets to watch it all again!

Wait. What's happening to the station? Are they...are they going into the star?

Oh no. So it's up to the dear listeners to save them, or...they just die here. Heroes. Heroes that everyone on Earth thought were dead already.

Oh she's rebooting now.

"Should we be doing something?" Oh did Renee pass out?

So...is Doug on the ship alone without his memories? What's happening?

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Where is Renee now? Lovelace? Where? What? The Urania? How?

Did they leave Pryce on board? Did Jacobi get out?

Oh good Hera, Minkowksi, and Lovelace made it. Jacobi did it! Nice work, Jacobi. Oh gosh he's so dramatic 😂

So I assume Doug made it too?

"What about Kepler" "No." Oh so, they must have found Rachel and discovered what he did. "You can't save everyone I suppose"

But you did save him, Jacobi. You did save Whiskey Boy.

And then where is Doug?

Oh he's listening to himself.

"I was a jerk" There's a lot worse things you can be, Doug.

It does make you wonder. If you looked at your life with a blank slate, what would you think? How would you be kinder to yourself? How would you be more critical?

"Am I still that same person?" If you want to be, Doug. If you want to be.

And what happened to Pryce? Please tell me you did not give her to the dear listeners.

IS THIS PRYCE?

Oh Hera and Pryce. "Your voice is like mine, isn't it?" "Nice to meet you, Hera." Oh. Oh my gosh. Pryce calling her Hera.

"And I'm...I'm going to tell you a very, very long story about the two of us, okay?"

I hope this ends well...

...please be a good guy, Pryce.

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Hey guys. Guys. Quick question.

Why are there 10 minutes left?

I um...I like this ending. They're going back to Earth, all is well. Please tell me nothing bad happens.

What happened with Pryce? Hera hasn't glitched at all? She did it. She conquered her fear. GO HERA! But um...what about Pryce? Is she...is she good?

Minkowski needs to find her husband. And yeah...you guys have a lot to figure out.

Lovelace...yep. Take Goddard down. Good idea. Explain to your friends you're an alien with extended lifespan...might want to break that gently.

Take who out?

Oh the ship. Is this it? They're going home? Please tell me they're actually going home. Don't tease me like this.

Oh right, what will Hera do now? I'm sure you'll find something.

And yeah. Doug might not know who he is, but he knows there are people he should see. And then...he'll figure it out. They'll all figure it out. "Am I still Doug Eiffel? I'm not sure. Want to find out together?"

Yes. I love this. 🥰

I also love how it connects to "will I miss you, when you go away forever Doug?" Yes, but he's not gone Hera. He's not gone.

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Five minutes left. So...what is that for? Do we finally get to meet Doug's daughter and Minkowski's husband...or…

That was wolf359! Oh it’s just the credits!

Great ending. But...wait. No wait. I'm confused hang on.

How did Jacobi escape from Victor to get the Urania? How is Hera going to survive on Earth? How did they fix those wounds? If the Hephaestus went into the star...

Wait. These aren't more alien copies are they? Oh wait, no Hera's here, sorry y'all I panicked for a moment. They duplicate human lives, but as far as I know, not AI. Also, if this was a happy dream sequence, why would Pryce be there? Okay, phew, we're good. We're...finally good.

And even if they are alien copies...the process will take 14,000 years. So. For the rest of their lives, at least. Especially since...they're still using Lovelace to spy on Earth. For the next 14,000 years. But I guess that’s a problem for future generations.

Okay. Great ending. Thoughts:

Cutter got what he deserved. So did Rachel, but I feel a bit sadder that she never realized the pointlessness of her life until it was too late (and really not even then). Also love that Cutter's original last name was "Newman" since he keeps making himself into "new men".

Kepler's sacrifice was great no notes. I hope he enjoyed the Whiskey.

Blessie should have come back, and in fanfic, I will find a way to make this happen.

Eris should have come back, and in fanfic, I will find a way to make this happen.

Are the Dear Listeners just going to leave Earth alone now? If the Hephaestus went into the star...does that mean they can make Rachel and Cutter copies? Because I don't like that...

I love that the aliens weren't the biggest threat in the end and Cutter was always the real monster.

Is Pryce cool now? She doesn't want revenge, does she? Like what do you even do with her at that point? (I have plans for this, don't worry).

How do they dismantle or repurpose Goddard? Cutter probably has guys still loyal to him on Earth or people who are gonna try to be the next Cutter now that he's out of the picture. How do you deal with them?

Okay...so the decima virus can be used for great good and great evil. Cutter apparently had stations with it set up all over the Earth. I hope no one stumble across one of those anytime soon. What exactly are they going to do about decima? It's still swimming about in Eiffel's blood.

Is Minkowski's journalist husband going to blow this case wide open? I hope that after her brief phone call with his secretary, Cutter didn't kill him to keep the rumors from spreading.

Will the families of all the other astronauts that died ever get closure? I know we don't want this getting out and causing panic, but they deserve answers too.

When. Is. The. Empty. Man. Going. To. Show. Up???? /j /It was Cutter the whole time because he has no humanity

Well that was fun. Again, the fanfic will probably take a good long while (I put off a lot in order to listen to this ending), but I look forward to mapping it out.

Once again, thank you all for listening along with me. This has been fun.

Now, to figure out how to unblock those pesky tags...

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inthe-afterglows · 6 months

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24hrs since i read Iron Flame and I'm still thinking about it!! so much happened in this book that I feel like I read three books in one and I loved it so much even if the ending had me screaming and wishing I had the next book already!!

Spoilers (and my thoughts) under the cut!

Xaden and Violet in this one were perfect in their flaws and I love how hard they worked on their relationship! If they are not endgame by the end of this series I will find my own dragon just to set the whole series on fire. The fact that they had such limited time together and usually had to choose whether to fight/argue over their issues or just be together was so sad and frustrating so I was glad when Xaden finally made them have the tough conversations. Their protectiveness of each other is so sweet and don't even get me started on Xaden coming to rescue Violet from Basgiath because I was deceased reading it. Also the scene with the throne *smirky face* "my house. my chair. my woman." Damn straight Xaden, say it louder for the people in the back. I will not let the ending deter me. They will find a cure of Xaden. They just have to. Like they can speak in each other's minds, that is soulmate stuff right there. They have to be end game. Also the reveal about Xaden's second signet had me screaming.

Tairn and Andarna were hilarious and the reveal about Andarna at the end also has me eagerly waiting for the next book. Their bond with Violet is so cute (and funny). They really are just Grumpy Dad, Eldest Daughter, Baby Sister energy.

Violet and her squad, particularly, Rhiannon, Ridoc, and Sawyer are the definition of found family and I love how loyal they are to each other. I also loved the addition of the new characters, Sloane and Aaric and adored more page time for Jesinia.

I'm meh about Dain's redemption arc. I don't hate it but I'd be fine if it wasn't there. I am glad he chose Violet's side in the end and that he accepted her and Xaden instead of trying to become between them. I'd say this book made me hate Dain 60% less but I still wouldn't care if he died.

Love that the Sorrengail siblings are back together!! i do think more could've been done with their mum but I did like her ending, sacrificing herself for her children and country. I do think it also could have been interesting material for the next book for her to have gone against Melgren's orders or something and have to seek shelter in Aretia where she would've had to confront her decisions and the pain they caused - not to mention deal with the anger Brennan has towards her. I think it would've been more impactful if the relationship between her and her children was explored a little more before killing her off as her death didn't really hit me as hard as it should've. The only scenes we ever really got of the Sorrengail siblings and their mum were all relatively negative, always arguing or disagreeing about something so it felt slightly realistic how devastated Violet and Mira were at her death.

All in all loved this book but literally so much happened in it that I'm glad I don't have the next one at my fingertips just to give me time to process and reread before the next one does come out. I'm really excited to see where the story goes and I loved the little hints of things that are obviously going to be addressed in the next one!!

#iron flame #iron flame spoilers #fourth wing #fourth wing spoilers

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waywardavatarenthusiast · 6 months

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On the Future

This comic was a decent character study, but let’s keep in mind it’s been sixteen years since Azula was introduced, and the audience still doesn’t know who she really is. I made a post about it here.If you take away the war and trauma of every other main character, they still have a definite personality. Sokka is quite literally the Meat and Sarcasm Guy. Zuko took like a fish to water as Fire Lord because his character has clearly always been about nobility and honor and duties aside, you can tell he enjoys being a head of state. Ty Lee is bubbly and spiritual, Aang is goofy and spiritual. Toph is Toph…you get the idea.

Azula has gotten nothing but crazy since the series finale, and that’s not fair because mental illness is not beautiful (see my comments on the art) and it’s not a personality trait. I know a lot of people want Azula’s cruelty to just be toned down with character development, but Azula will tell anyone willing to listen that her behavior isn’t a choice. No one asks why Zuko doesn’t call members of the Gaang stupid or lowly even though he did that with his crew before his redemption arc because it reads as someone whose motives have changed, not their morals. I think the closest the audience got to Azula’s personality is not the Beach, but literally every other scene of off-duty Azula.

Azula being announced as a special guest at the circus. Azula getting her hair washed and playfulling telling Zuko that she’s the princess as if she’s reminding herself. Zuko’s whole monologue to Aang about how everyone adores Azula. There’s a reason why apparently Zuko took it upon himself to strip her of her titles. I think “post-redemption” Azula definitely spends a long time trying to figure out her purpose in the world, only to find out it’s the one she was assigned from birth. Except she connects with the people who see her as the country’s metaphorical daughter/sister rather than the privileges that come with the role.

Oh, you’re looking for a number? 6/10. An extra point was added for the art quality.

#atla #azula #avatar the last airbender #avatar fandom #azula in the spirit temple #azula meta #princess azula

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readingwithrhia · 1 year

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Linger - MPHFPC Fanfiction ( Alma Peregrine x OC Daughter character Avalon Peregrine) Chpt.2

Disclaimer, I only own Avalon Lefay Peregrine, the other characters rightfully belong to Ransom Riggs

Based on Ransom Riggs bestseller Miss Peregrines Home for Peculiar Children.

This is a fan-fiction story

Rape, incest, and mature content will be included in this story. Read at your own risk.

21+

Trigger warning ⚠️

——��———— Chapter 02 —————

I remember those little moments when he would converse with me in this filthy cell, restraint by leather straps to a chair, because he wanted to make me feel he was the one with power. The empowered god.

"Hello, sweetheart." Dark chuckles slipped from his scarred lips, his eyes drenched in insanity, terror coursed me at how his blank eyes were filled with violence. Still scary how an average appearing man reigned with monsters. "I still cannot believe that a child of beauty would be conceived through horror."

Chills ran down my spine, even if I attempted to lunge at him, it would be of no use. I was restrained.

"I gave her a child of her own, she should be thankful."

Even my bones tremble in disgust at the sight of my father.

Silence continued to scream, except for his words amd the clicking of his boots against the hard concrete.

"Not being able to look at her only own flesh and blood as she is reminded of me and what I forced upon her is the greatest pain I have ever inflicted, and I have slaughtered numerous inoccent souls."

Digging my fingers into his skull and ripping out his brain would be a pleasure of mine, but that will not be as of today. Completely devoured by insanity, redemption was an impossible call for this man. How could he have slept? Those screams Mother made and her struggling to free herself from his grasp were lullabies to his sleep.

"I love her, but not in a way a brother loves his sister."

Going through sleepless nights of pain and grief, dancing on the edge of a knife barefoot, salvation finally arrived.

In the form of my bruised and injured mother, the great Alma Peregrine — the crimson line across the arc of her cheekbones was visibly evident, black and blue bruises revealing themselves underneath the sleeves of her dress, like blood trailing on porcelain cups — and what I assume to be the now renowned hollow-slayer, Jacob Portman.

Traces of Jacob's injuries barely showed themselves, except that his ocean eyes showed traumatic gleam, a dash of pride and relief.

"Thank God, we found you." Jacob breathed heavily, finally saved from the nights of endless crying, torture, and loneliness. I tried to keep my spirits high and remember that I was stronger than this. I was a peculiar. I was stronger than a normal human; and yet my father made me weak. He made me think I was weak and frail. I felt that way,and deep down, I felt I was always weak. Until the moment I was saved.

"Ava!" My mother cried in a mixture of pain and relief, intangible glass shards piercing her voice. With her trembling hands, she embraced me and there came a whisper, "I'm sorry."

I may be alive, but death will always inhabit my bones.

When Jacob and Mom came and got me, I felt relief. I was relieved that my nightmare was over.

Weakness prevailed as tear stained cheeks on my face kept the reminder of the nightmare,and that my nightmare was alive. My nightmare running through my blood. My nightmare wouldn't end, until I did. I knew I was stronger than him. I was stronger than any of the torture he put me through. And yet, he stuck me down and made me small. I wasn't myself anymore, I was a barely a shadow of Avalon.

Not the daughter of Alma Peregrine, nor Caul's.

A burning throne in Hell has been reserved for me as soon as the monsters' scream echo through my mind.

— ALP—

#alma peregrine #alma peregrine x reader #eva green #miss peregrines home for peculiar children #fanfiction

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land-of-sinners · 1 month

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You know what fuck it, I’m going to make an entire post talking about this for a second cause I like dissecting my own characters;

Serenity’s entire character arc is all about reclaiming her independence and becoming her own woman, one that’s worthy of recognition for her accomplishments without being associated with someone else; her father’s daughter, Vox’s errand girl, the Princess’s charity case, the Radio Demon’s girlfriend, and so on and so forth.

Obviously she rejects the first two examples of this; her father didn’t make her who she is, she became the kind of person she is despite her father. And Vox did technically help her when she first dropped into Hell, but Serenity made her own business from the ground up. Yes he gave her the idea, but she’s the one that made it a reality. But everyone still associates her with Vox because of how often he employs her service since she’s freelance and rejected his original contract.

Now the last two are complicated because they’re people that Serenity actually cares about and likes. Serenity is far more vocal than other people about her active participation at the hotel, almost like she’s proud to be under Charlie’s wing and working her way to redemption. But with how cynical Hell’s populous is, seeing it as no more than a joke, the term “charity case” got thrown around a lot mostly in news outlets about the hotel and the “poor sinners” hosted under the Princess’s care. This led to a degrading view of Serenity’s participation, framing it as her being completely dependent on Charlie’s help, almost like a leech. Serenity obviously doesn’t take well to that and grew a more “I could take care of myself before, I could take care of myself if the hotel fails too” mentality, still appreciating Charlie’s help but also feels it to be a bit overbearing.

And then there’s her entire relationship with Alastor. The Radio Demon. One of the most powerful and recognized Overlords who dropped into Hell.

Now unlike the others, Serenity pretty much expected the kind of reputation she would get even before becoming official with him. She already anticipated how the general public would react, which if anything is why she was hesitant in the first place. Not only did she have to be weary of Alastor’s true intentions to protect herself, but after accepting, she also had to be prepared for the inevitable association people would have when regarding her relationship. Getting to a point where her own name was hardly ever used, being seen as another one of Alastor’s associates at best, or property he owned at worst. Mind you it does partially benefit Serenity, being known as someone not to be fucked with less they attract the wrath of the Radio Demon himself. But that’s never been the point to Serenity, she never wanted to be feared, she never wanted to be famous. She wanted her own fucking name to be spoken!

Now going all the way back to the second post I referenced with the tags; this problem only gets worse when Alastor decides to propose to Serenity, and she immediately gets fucking terrified not because she doesn’t love or isn’t committed to him. But she knows that it would be next to impossible to reclaim any independence once she became “the Radio Demon’s wife”. (But again I am writing a whole fic for this concept so to avoid spoiling or rehashing too much, I’ll summarize it). TLDR; Alastor agrees to be patient with her now knowing what she needs in order to feel secure, and Serenity finally decides to make a name for herself in Hell’s hierarchy. Which we find later down the line, will finally come in the form of Serenity getting redeemed and choosing to stay in Hell as an ‘angelic sinner’. Now with the power and status to receive notoriety from Hell’s general public, Serenity finally felt secure enough to accept Alastor’s proposal. Couple that with Charlie handing over the hotel and its mission onto Serenity as a sort of engagement gift, deciding to focus her efforts more on preparing herself to rule Hell alongside Vaggie.

#I really don’t know how to tag this in a way it’ll be seen #hazbin hotel #self shipping #self shipping community #self ship community #self insert #Hazbin oc #Serenity #original character #s/i

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sadi-simps · 1 year

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Reaction to Harumi's "Death", Dareth's "Brown Powers", Lloyd becoming a leader, etc

Another Ninjago essay lmao

First off, I wanna point out that the season I'm at, called "Hunted", has been very thrilling for me so far. A lot of stuff has happened, I'm still not done. I left off after I finished the episode where Harumi "dies" and "redeems herself" by saving a kid from going through the same thing she did.

In this blog post, I'll talk a bit about that, but I'll save my opinion on Harumi for the end of the post. First, let me just point out something!

Dareth, oh my fucking god, I think he might be my favorite non powered character now! He has been such a genuinely good guy, trying his best! Yes, he fails sometimes, but the fact that he tries so hard, and his loyalty to the ninja hasn't faded, that he keeps trying to help, honestly, this season has done a good job making me like Dareth! He's been a fun character, and I regret hating his guts when I was younger! He's trying his best, and I will never slander him again. :c

Lloyd's speech on air, yeah it was cliche, but it got the point across, and it was a bit moment for him developing into a leader. I'm proud of him, I'm proud of all the ninja. Every time they get pushed down, they get back up with more determination. The kind I wish I had. Maybe I'm projecting on these characters a little bit, and maybe I'm not bringing anything new to the table in this blog post, but I like writing out my thoughts, it's become part of my new therapy. That being said, Ninjago is every bit as inspiring to me in my adulthood as it was when I was a young teenager being emotionally neglected by my family and physically attacked by my younger brother out of nowhere almost daily. I was in a bad situation, and this show helped me endure it all back then. As cliche as it sounds, it's true. This show was my comfort show back then, and it's starting to feel that way again. TuT

Now for the final bit, my feelings about Harumi... Honestly, it was pretty scummy of her to suggest becoming her replacement for Lloyd as Garmadon's child. No matter how hard you try, you can't replace your kids. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't have even suggested such an idea, but then again, I'm not a terrible, vengeful, scummy, abusive peeson like her, and I would never find myself in her shoes to begin with. In her defense, I suppose it might have been a way for her to keep Garmadon from destroying her like he almost did when she "failed him", but it was still a very weird writing choice, and seems like it was intentionally setting groundwork for her to marry Lloyd in the future to be "the daughter-in-law" instead of "adopted". Honestly, it's a very poor writing choice in my opinion because even though they're trying to redeem her as a character, it's not very well done.

1. It only took a couple of episodes, a threat on her life, and a clearly emotionally vulnerable Garmadon for her to change her attitude.

2. Even with that attitude change, it still comes off as manipulative for her to have done that.

3. I don't care what the writers want her to be, they established her as a horrible person in Sons of Garmadon, a redemption arc just doesn't work for this character. Let her stay evil and die for her sins!

And of course, the elephant in the room... Her seeing the "error of her ways". That was such a copout, it was established in Sons of Garmadon that her pain made her WANT others to feel the same pain she felt, and that she DIDN'T CARE about the children. It was literally a "fuck them kids" attitude for her, and for it to change that quickly, that's not good writing, that's just out of character.

Like, yeah, it was a good way for her to die, realizing she was wrong all along, get what you deserve, blah blah blah. But if you wanted her to see the error of her ways in her dying moment, why are all these Twitter spoilers showing her she comes back anyway? It completely defeats the impact of her death.

Ugh... Here I am overanalyzing this show yet again, yes it's a show meant for kids, but Ninjago has been trying to have somewhat serious writing for a long time, and for the most part, it has been great! The writers are clearly capable of writing characters well, but they failed this villain character by trying to redeem her, and it doesn't work. Not only that, but if she and Lloyd get married, it spreads a terrible message to young kids about relationship dynamics and forgiveness.

Some things shouldn't be forgiven.

And this isn't even me being bitter about my "Senpai Lloydkins" finding a girl he likes, this is about me feeling sorry for this character, and maybe projecting my own emotional trauma onto him, but it comes from a place of experience.

I still love this show, and I'm not gonna let a bad pairing ruin it for me, but if I could do things differently, I would have her stay evil.

I know I'm probably being dramatic, but again, it comes from personal experience with both the show and real life situations that left me with severe anxiety and depression.

Thank you for reading this long winded post. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this show... No spoilers please!

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konako · 1 year

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Always an enthusiastic audience for Cruella and Ruby "interacting", never doubt it. If only they had *one* good scene together. :-\

Just one!!! One tiny scene!!

Could be a quick comment from Cruella, about wanting to get her hands on the wolf with the tacky outfits (you just know Cruella would come for Ruby's fashion sense—)

Or!!! A proper scene of dialogue, some back and forth, that would hint at something more!! Just Cruella pointing at Ruby, picking her out of the small crowd of heroes. "You look very familiar..." then walking closer, very slowly. "Tell me, darling," looking her up and down, "Are you, by any chance, the daughter Anita wouldn't shut up about?" And it's never touched upon again, like OUAT seems to prefer its potential.

OOOOR!! A whole B Plot for one episode. All about Cruella and Anita's past, and how Cruella had a friend once, and maybe had a chance at redemption, but blew it. And Ruby having to relive the day she killed her mother, having to face the fact that Anita wasn't the one-dimensional hungry homicidal werewolf supremacist she was killed as, but a person with her story, needs, desires and challenges, just like Ruby herself. (And she learns, through Cruella, that all that Anita ever wanted — more than any werewolf political goal — was to find her daughter, welcome her into the pack and become a family again. Very sad)

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR AN ENTIRE ARC. About Ruby possibly maybe being controlled by Cruella's magic— we can finally get the Evil!Red Meghan and Lana were rooting for, without compromising her entire character, since she'd be under a spell. And we can get Regina, one of the good guys now, telling Snow, "You know, I always thought she'd be a great asset on my side." Then Snow cuts her off, "Oh, I know." And Regina continues, "I just can't believe Cruella, of all people, got her to change her mind." And Snow snaps at Regina, "She hasn't changed her mind. Cruella has her under her spell!!" Regina rolls her eyes, scoffing, "That looks like a changed mind to me"

#RD HC

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bisexualshitwholovesshakespeare · 2 years

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I have an idea how to fix 'Mamma Mia: Here We Go Again!'

Firstly 'Mamma Mia' should be a trilogy. The third movie is called 'Mamma Mia: How Can I Resist You?' but we'll talk about it later.

'Mamma Mia: Here We Go Again!'

Some base points are ok but the rest of the movie is bad, at least in my opinion.

Donna is alive and she's not gonna die any time soon

Grand reopening of the hotel, but there is a storm and some things go to shit can stay

We find out about Sophie's pregnancy in first 10 to 20 minutes

Donna is very supportive but she gets flashbacks from when she told her mother about her pregnancy

Sky is there for Sophie too

They invited the grandma and didn't tell Donna about it cause they thought she wouldn't show up

She shows up and Donna is not very pleased but it's just one night, right?

The grandma (I don't remember her name) wants to help with the preparations but Donna doesn't want it. She's gonna get the redemption arc she deserve.

Sophie and Sky plan to help them get along again

Sophie takes the grandma for outdoors work. The grandma tells her all kinds of stories about little Donna and finally the big question is asked. Why you and mom don't talk to eachother anymore?

At the same time Donna is talking to Tanya and Rosie about why she's mad at her mom and boom! Donna and grandma have a song and it explains what happened, mostly Donna sings. Donna never got along with her mother and she thought she was never enough for her and then a big argument over her pregnancy happened and she was so angry that she stopped talking to her mother. And after that she was just sad, proud and felt stupid to call her or talk to her so she didn't. The grandma sings the argument part with her. Sky listens to it.

Meanwhile we cut to Harry or Bill, doesn't matter who is gonna be first. Their storylines were surprisingly good so they can stay. Don't worry, Harry is gonna get more spotlight in the third movie

Sophie and grandma get back and they meet Sam. After only short conversation grandma is number one of his fans and she's very glad that Donna married him. Both Sam and Sophie are surprised because grandma really changed and wants to make it up to Donna.

Donna is a bit too stubborn to forgive her for now and that's very much understandable she gets some more flashbacks from good times and the bad ones with her mother and how she became a mother herself, how she raised Sophie.

Grandma really helped with preparations and thanks to her help they can start the reopening party on time.

Harry and Bill are a bit late but no one minds.

Sophie and Sky plan to tell everyone about the pregnancy and when they do everyone is happy and congratulates. There is a song about how good it is to be a parent and the dads and Donna are singing and then grandma joins in and that upsets Donna so she runs away. What is surprising, after her runs her mother.

And now, we have the most touching song in the history. Donna doesn't want to talk but grandma is like you want to know why I pushed so hard on you? Because you are capable of great things but you settled for less and wasn't entirely happy and this hotel is your dream that you fulfilled in 100% so I'm proud of you. And she sings how much she loves her, how she was alway proud of her and she shouldn't push her to her limits cause that's what she herself should establish and how much she regrets never reaching out after the argument and how she wishes she could be here for her and Sophie. And then Donna sings how she loves her and how she was too stubborn to forgive her. There is a lot of saying sorry and finally they both cry and forgive eachother and go back to the party.

Then they all dance and are happy and the movie ends. Probably

'Mamma Mia: How Can I Resist You?'

I thought it should be a trilogy. I just like trilogies.

It happens like 14-15 years after the second one and it focused on Sophie and Sky's daughter (of course it's a daughter). She's a teenager now and has her first crush. He asks her out on a date, like cinema date or something similar and she want to know about love and romantic feelings in order to find out what she is feeling and what the guy could feel towards her.

Everyone is thrilled to help her. It's vacation time so everybody is there.

This is the movie where Harry is served justice and gay people get what they want. Harry has found himself a partner a few years back and now he wants to propose to him while they're visiting his family. However, he is not sure, because these past few week he's been acting weird, staying at work late, unexpected plans and a lot of phone calls. We see it throughout the movie. Harry is afraid of the worst scenario and doesn't want to talk about the situation with his partner and the partner doesn't want to talk about it either.

Now, the daughter goes and asks her every relative what is love. And the answer is not 'baby don't hurt me' even though it would be funny, but every one of them tells her about a different aspect of love or at least that it isn't always easy.

Sophie and Sky get a song how they met and what the teenage love is

Donna and Sam get a song about how love never truly dies. And NOW is the time and place for some flashbacks, not in the middle of the movie without any reasonable context.

Bill get a song how cheating is bad and Rosie get a song about forgiveness.

The dads, now granddads, get a song how they loved Donna but the love in some situations takes different paths and now Harry and Bill are her friends because they still care about her.

Tanya sings how nice it is to be single but you don't feel lonely because you have friends and family.

And then she goes to Harry, and she's like 'hey grandpa why are you sad you have found love.' and he's like 'well it's not always all colorful in love, because you think it is love but the other person may not and it's just temporary attraction and you end up with a broken heart.' and she's like 'well I think it's important to speak about your emotions. And even if you get hurt you still have your family to love you.' . He makes his mind and goes to talk to his partner

And Harry say that he's concerned that they're growing apart and enlists the things that changed recently and that he understands if he wants to break up. But the partner is like 'woah what do you mean, I don't plan to break up with you any time soon or even ever, I didn't know that all these things were such a problem, I'm glad that it's not gonna happen again'. The reason for all his strange behaviour was that he was too planning to propose and his sister helped him choose the ring and talked him through everything and wanted to know how it went so she called very often and he called her when he was stressed that Harry is going to say no. So it's a double proposal and to my taste it can be the sweetest and cheesiest of them all. Gay people deserve that.

And we end the movie with a song about family. It can be bad but if you have people that you love on your side it's less bad

Thanks to anyone who got through all of that. I hope you liked it. Feel free to add anything.

#mamma mia #long post #like really really long #mamma mia here we go again

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scienter · 1 year

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Almost 6 years since the Finale-that-shall-NOT-be-named and "nostalgia,curiosity,etc,etc" took me back to s2 of TVD only because of The myth,the legend,the baddest bitch of all,Katerina Petrova.Her backstory is one of my favourites on the show.Something that I noticed,something that used to bug me even before was what exactly was Klaus's problem with Katherine?She was an entirely different person back then,banished by her family,who simply wanted to be loved even though deep down she knew(self-admitted) Klaus didn't care about her at all.When she ran,she did it to save herself because she didn't want to be Klaus's sacrificial lamb.She didn't do anything to him other than,I don't know,hurt his inflated male ego and out of vengeance slaughtered her entire family, chased her for the next 500 years & even came back to gloat over her while she was dying. Why do the so-called TVD feminist fandom worship him?What is so special about him? Is it Jomo's accent that had people gravitate toward their British king because,honestly,all I can see is a self-imposed garbage and nothing else.Of course I haven't watched TO so I don't know what happened over there but to create a whole show to redeem someone who boxed up his family for over a 1000 years and want people to forgive him because he had a daughter who,I have heard,he wanted dead at the beginning,is just beyond me.Instead of wasting screen time on Klaus's self-indulgent,zero-boundaries,obsessive,one-sided chasing of Caroline and Katherine's unhealthy obsession with Stefan, they could have done so much with Elijah & Katherine.Gaaah!

I think it's the Draco In Leather Pants phenomenon:

"Draco in Leather Pants is when a fandom takes a controversial or downright villainous character and downplays their flaws, often turning them into an object of desire and/or a victim in the process."

I don't know why this phenomenon occurs, but it is off-putting. While I really enjoy multifaceted villains and stories about their humanity (e.g., Katherine Pierce, Rumpelstiltskin on OUAT, Jesse Pinkman & Walter White on Breaking Bad), I don't like it when villains are portrayed as anti-heroes without any atonement or actual redemption arcs. It's why the fandom's Draco In Leather Pants treatment is annoying (and why I never got into The Originals). Unfortunately, every fandom seems to suffer from this. It comes with the territory.

#ask #anon #ask for ts #anon for ts #reply #reply for ts #klaus michaelson #draco in leather pants

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none-prob · 1 year

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I write about a character per day

Day 17: Amity Blight

Confession time:

I know about Lumity before The Owl House.

That's how popular Lumity is/was, and I think there's a good reason for that. After Rupphire and Bubbline revolutionized the cartoon industry, Lumity is the best successor I have found (Though nothing will ever beat Rupphire for me, they're absolutely beautiful. They had a special place in my heart). So let's talk about the half that changed so drastically from the beginning, Amity Blight.

I don't know whether because of my experience with Peridot in the past, or because I know about Lumity first, or Titan forbid both, but the vibes of "she's not actually a threat and gonna have an epic redemption arc" appeared to me from the beginning. And it did. Almost exactly the same as Peridot even, as she also yelled at someone who she thought she won't be able to. Seriously, Amity had changed so much since the first impression of sassy student who bullied her classmate.

Have I ever told how much Luz changed everyone in the Boiling Isles? Luz changed people around her so much, recruiting allies, making her former allies more confidence and strong, even going on a date with a new ally. That new ally is Amity.

Amity from seeing her as an annoyance, getting her into trouble, to slowly understanding her and finally giving her human a kiss. Amity admitted to Luz that things changed so much for her she did things she never thought she would. Interestingly enough, back in Season 1 when things went south for her she blamed it on Luz, but in Season 2 she found herself doing that for Luz. Almost the same sentence, yet the tones changed a lot. Amity studied less, yet feel so much happier, she reconciled with her childhood friend, went against her parents, and even went rebel with the pink hair. 15 years in her life, and things changed a lot in just a few months of a human being here. It's not just Luz being a really good communicator and peacemaker, but it also came from Amity's will to change. This is important. I really can't emphasize this enough, but changes must come from both side. No amount of convincing or talking will work if the other side doesn't want to change. Luz wouldn't be able to change Amity if she herself doesn't want to. Having said that, it doesn't mean things just all go well for them. There're still disagreements, hiding, misunderstanding, but them being able to opening up to each other is really precious. And of course the unlimited amount of tomato Amity jokes. And the kisses. I literally can write about Lumity all day but I'll left that half for when I write about Luz.

The will to change in Amity had always been there, but she had to oppressed it, because of so much social pressure. And yes, once again, gotta yell at Odalia. Her and Alador (yes Alador is not completely innocent, he only sorta kinda "redeemed" himself by turning against his wife) chose her friends for her, used her like a labour, and forced her into cramming when she was "distracted". It's really strange and messed up that Odalia literally have a necklace to control her daughter, that she probably had done that to Ed and Em, and she's so willingly run the family like a business (kinda similar to a certain president I know). The liberation from Odalia happened one step at a time for Amity, and even when she decided to rebel, she still had a long way to come. It only ended at the finale, when we finally see Mittens happy around her dad, with Odalia in the background, completely cutting her mom off her life.

The one who witnessed all of those changes from Amity is Willow. Willow witnessed so much, the dagger in her back, when Amity pulled off the dagger and started healing, she saw it all, held it all up and not complained one bit. But it hurt Amity as well. Their break-up was completely arranged, she was peer-pressured into bullying her old friend, it got so bad she almost wiped out her memory. She wanted things to go along well, but don't know where to start. And Willow saw it all. She knew what happened, she saw Amity's desire to change, and she acknowledged and accepted the late apology. Once again, changes must come from both side, and they changed so much they became partners in crime again, a classic duo that so strong they defended the entire Hexside.

Amity had all the joy of being the younger sibling of the twins. And something that I'll forever appreciate, is that no matter how annoying and unbearable the twins are, in dire situations we understand why they're siblings. Amity almost broke in tears when she saw her twins in such a long while. Amity will forever be their "baby sis" no matter what happened.

One last character I want to talk about, though I also don't want to, Boscha. Up until today we still don't have all the informations about their relationship. Amity had to endure her quite a lot during her childhood, then embraced her to bully Willow, but got Luz and started hanging around with Luz's group a lot more, accidentally put Boscha into irrelevancy. They made peace at the end, but that interaction with Boscha in the detention pit is definitely really awkward for Amity.

Amity Blight is so cool. Awesome Girlfriend. Lesbian. Rebel. You name it. She's everything.

#the owl house #toh #amity blight

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a-tale-of-legends · 2 years

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Fuck it, the Lusamine rant is coming

Believe it or not, I'm not against Lusamine getting a redemption arc. I'm not against her trying to mend her wrongs and the Aether family trying to pick up the pieces. I'm not against exploring the meaning of forgiveness and becoming a better person. I am against how fucking rushed it was. I despise that.

Cause like, in Sun and Moon, I loved to hate Lusamine. Not in the same way as Ghetsis, but rather there's this nuance and understanding of her character that both makes me feel bad for her downfall but also, gladly wanting to slapping the shit out of here. I felt so happy for Lillie when she finally stood up to her you know? They were emotions there that paid off really well!!! And from the set up of the end of SuMo, it seemed we get to explore that.

But we didn't

USUM, in my opinion, took all that was good and interesting about Lusamine, and threw it out the window. It was absolutely lazy how they wrapped up her and her children's arc. Lillie and Lusamine just talked and turns out they got along??? Seriously???? What's even more shameful is that the game does nothing, nothing to show how Lusamine is better than her SuMo counterpart. Her children still ran away from her. She still has those frozen pokemon in her base. She literally said " I don't have any children" to Lillie's face and you expect me to believe that they make up just like that????? Fuck no! She's still a terrible person, a terrible mother, regardless of her doing what she did for " the greater good"!( Abusing and putting down your children has nothing to do with the "greater good" actually, your just terrible).

Another slap to the face is that the development of Lusamine getting better and becoming a better parent is explored more in Pokemon Masters. A mobile game. A mobile game! Now this isn't anything new; the Galar characters get more development there than in their actual game, but that's still a problem! It's still a problem that s mobile game has to do the necessary steps to actually portray the family fixing itself than the actual game.

USUM made me hate Lusamine. Hate what they did to here. Hate that they took all the complexity of her,threw it out the window with a rushed "redemption" arc. Fuck that. USUM should have been sequels if they wanted to do that. That way they had more freedom to actually tell the story they want to tell, without forcing themselves to stick to the game story beats of SuMo.

This is a bit of a side tangent, but you know how Lusamine says " When did you get so beautiful" to Lillie when she's defeated in SM? I was thinking about it and thought " wait did she never see Lillie as beautiful before"? ( Beautiful as in her finally seeing her daughter, not some thing she can mold and command). And like it got me wondering: do you think Lusamine's abusive tendencies were always there, but with Mohn, she actively was bettering herself? And when Mohn disappeared, those tendencies became an active choice of hers? I don't think I worded that right tbh, but I hope y'all get my train of thought here.

ANYWAY. USUM Lusamine makes me mad. I personally don't want her to have a redemption arc because to me, there isn't much to redeem. She fucked up bad, and she does have to face the consequences. But I would have also really loved and appreciated if Gamefreak took the time to do the redemption arc they wanted. But they didn't and it's frustrating. I don't know how much more I can go on without repeating myself so I'm gonna end it here. Thank you for listening my Ted talk.

#r rants

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cometblaster2070 · 3 years

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These smiles are so adorable and genuine, I’m going to cry

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literatikoo · 3 years

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Lane Kim deserved better

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I would only write Lane Kim meta when I am very very angry because I need to be powered by spite and petty energy to unravel exactly how much of a disservice this show was to Lane and by extension any Asian kid with a similar life. And, well, it's happening now, so buckle up kids, this is going to be a loooong ride because I have a lot to say.

Before we start on the negative aspects, the show got a lot of things about Lane right, which is why I care so much about her character. Yes, ASP obviously didn't know how to write a POC experience and it's seen in the way some very harmful stereotypes were propagated (the tiger mom trope, Mrs Kim's religious beliefs, the depiction of the Kim extended family etc) but at the same time Lane was beautifully written as a character, unlike her plot which left much to be desired. Lane Kim was an Asian girl with rock n roll dreams who had an extremely fraught relationship with her mother and had to fight for even a semblance of independence. And I hate to say it but a lot of daughters of Asian households are forced to hide a part of themselves from their families, so Lane's story was authentic.

Not only was Lane amazing as an individual, she was also a great friend. She was the only one who was really in Rory's corner; she never judged her and supported all of Rory's relationships (my favourite example of this is when she barely tolerated Jess in S2/3 and then did a complete 180 like 5 episodes later, all because Rory decided to finally accept she liked him). Lane never pointed out what Rory was doing wrong not because she was afraid of doing so but because the two of them had been friends for years and Lane believed that Rory would figure it out one day. Lane shows this unconditional kindness not only to Rory but to everyone. She takes in her Korean cousin and teaches her to have fun even when she's afraid that Mrs Kim has replaced her, she lets Gil be in the band because she empathises with him, she takes care of the band and prevents it from breaking up multiple times. And these are only a few examples of Lane being the kindest character on GG.

One of the best things in Gilmore Girls is that the most unproblematic, amazing guy is given to Lane. Dave Rygalski is the best love interest on the show hands down (Sorry to my boy Jess but Dave was LEAGUES ahead of him at 17) and Lane definitely deserved someone like that. Their story was adorable and I would have loved for them to be endgame. However, what grates me is that when I see people talking about Lane "deserving better," it's usually about Dave vs Zach. When Lane actually deserved better as a WHOLE and not only in terms of love interests. I always thought it made more sense for her to end up alone at the end of the og series. Because Lane was a person who craved independence and she was not going to get that while tied to some guy (even if that guy is boyfriend extraordinaire, Dave Rygalski). It's even worse when we see that Lane is the only female character on the show to be treated this way. Rory rejects marriage for her career while Lane ends up with marriage as her storyline. Lorelai and Luke get back together but their relationship is still left open ended, though arguably it would've made more sense if they got married when Lane and Zach did. Paris gets into Harvard Medical school and gets a great relationship, similarly Sookie gets the family she wanted and continues to be amazing at her job. But Lane... god Lane is the only one without an open ending, without any space for speculation of where her life might lead her. Not only did they marry her off, they also gave her a terrible first time and twins, effectively locking her to Stars Hollow. The show even cut down all hope of her being a rock n roll mom as one of her S7 storylines is choosing the kids over going on tour with Zach. She doesn't get to be her own person for more than ONE season; she's stuck with being a daughter and then a wife and then a mother.

Something else that angers me about Lane's storyline is that we never really get to see how badly her relationship with her mom affects her. Don't get me wrong, I adore Mrs Kim's redemption arc and I think it was beautifully juxtaposed to Lorelai and Rory's crumbling relationship, but having a mother like that is hard. Not only did Lane have to hide 90% of her personality from Mrs Kim but she also lived with the fact that one day she might have to choose between her dreams and her mother. In the end, Mrs Kim makes that choice for her and deals with it by kicking Lane out in S4, and yet we never really see how that negatively affects Lane. Hell, Jess acts like a broody teen for two seasons, Rory wastes six months of her life away at the DAR and they both come out of it successfully. Lane gets kicked out, figures out her own living conditions, gets a job, works insanely hard for her band and... ends up having to give her dreams up completely.

Lane and Paris shared a lot of similarities too, even if they both had different friendships with Rory. They both came from terrible families and looked to Lorelai as a mother figure, they both cared deeply for Rory, and they were both incredibly passionate about their careers. Paris made calendars and flashcards and went crazy studying for both pre med and pre law. Lane was a walking, talking music encyclopaedia, she bought CDs obsessively and organised them by genre under her floorboards, she taught herself to play the drums and then found a band to play for. And yet... only Paris becomes successful in the end, whereas Lane takes over Kim's antiques. Lane was still a musician in AYITL and she can be rock n roll even with kids but this is all hypothetical and we never see it on the show.

There is a lot of terrible, lazy writing on the show and a lot of characters get ruined because of it but with Lane, her character stays the same, they just ruin everything else for her. I think she'll be an amazing mom and will probably make her best out of doing music casually. But the writers also took something so special and destroyed it just because Lane stopped being as important to the plot as she was in seasons 1-3. Lane and Rory drifting a little after Rory leaves for Yale makes perfect sense, that's just how relationships are, always changing. And yet as Lane's importance to Rory decreased so did her importance to the writers.

Lane wasn't the kind of character that needed character development or a redeeming character arc- she was never a bad person and nothing about her had to be fixed, unlike Jess or even Paris. All she really needed was for her dreams to come true because for the first 4 seasons her dreams were the biggest fixture of her personality. Like how Jess needed to overcome his trauma and Rory needed to figure out where she fit in and Paris needed to become a girlboss, Lane needed to realise her dreams because that's where her arc was leading her. But it just didn't happen. Instead, Lane becomes 2-dimensional; a large part of her screentime is taken up by Zach problems, her dreams fall flat and she becomes tied to Stars Hollow for the rest of her life. Not to mention we see less of Lane in favour of Logan and the dickhead posse.

This is not me hating on all the other characters I've mentioned in this meta, I'm just pointing out the lack of respect the writers have for Lane in comparison to all these other people who fulfilled the role they were made for. Why would you write Lane to have all these dreams and make her struggle so hard for 4 seasons just to smash them to pieces? And why is it that one of the only POC characters on this show is treated like this?

And you can't tell me the writers didn't know what they were doing, not when this is a direct quote from Lane in S7:

"It was such a small window -- a peephole, really. For years, I was this repressed kid, and then there was the briefest of windows. And then -- slam. All of a sudden, I'm this overburdened mother. I barely got to do it, Zach. I barely got the chance to be a person."

#gilmore girls #gilmore girls meta #lane kim #lane kim meta #mrs kim #rory gilmore #jess mariano #lorelai gilmore #paris geller #lane x dave #amy sherman palladino #anti lane x zach #anti zach van gerbig #in the end paris and rory got a lot of their opportunities because they are rich privileged white women #and if lane got opportunities like that she would’ve grown wildly successful #i always saw paris as a raging lesbian #and yet!! her and doyle's divorce meant less to me than zach and lane's

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snafu-maniac1 · 3 years

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Zuko deserved better

So I rewatched Avatar the Last Airbender recently and let me tell you......

I wanna murder several people.

Looking back on this entire series I’ve come to notice something. I watched the show just like any other audience member and only saw the good and the bad characters. One of these prime examples is Zuko. Zuko’s redemption arc has been praised as one of the greatest in history, succeeding where others have failed. But watching it all again......it wasn’t redemption. Not to me personally.

Before everyone gets angry and defensive at me, please finish reading my post and hear what I have to say. I do not wish to start any fandom wars or discredit or disrespect anyone’s opinion, this is just my personal psychological analysis of Zuko’s character....Sigh and let me give you a warning.

It’s gonna be LONG.

So if you’re not interested or don’t want to hear it or don’t feel like reading something this long that’s fine, you can go ahead and just click away and ignore this post.

Starting from book 2.

Now you may be wondering why I’m starting here and not from the start of Zuko’s childhood but I first want to address the one question everyone had been wondering since the series 2 finale. What would have happened if Zuko hadn’t sided with Azula?

My answer is.....that wouldn’t have happened.

Everyone’s been focusing on the entire arc where Zuko was struggling to accept that the war was wrong and how Iroh was trying to get through to him when he tried to capture Appa and afterwards, but here’s something everyone tends to ignore.

Why didn’t Iroh try sooner?

Why didn’t he try to stop Zuko before Aang came, before he’d gotten so deep and desperate to the point that he continuously committed heinous acts to capture the Avatar? People would justify it by saying Iroh wanted Zuko to realize the wrongs of his father and Nation by himself to shape him into his own person. But that is in no way the appropriate way to approach a physically, psychologically and mentally unstable and abused child. Zuko was a thirteen year old boy when he was burned and banished. This is where we go into his childhood. Zuko was raised like any other Fire Nation citizen. As we’ve seen in book 3 and in the Pirate comic book, The Fire Nation citizens were led to believe that the other Nations were ‘savages’ and ‘barbarians’. It villainizes the Fire Nation even more. The very fact that they would spread heinous lies against other people when they themselves were responsible for the war that ruined so many lives. But when you realize, what Sozin and the other Fire Lords did was a solid battle tactic. Making the opposing side out to be these horrendous monsters. Making lies or accentuating every one of their worst traits to dehumanize their enemies so that the people would not have any qualms about fighting them. All of the Fire Nation schools were taught these lies. And Zuko was no exception.

Zuko was a member of the Royal family. And from what was shown in the Avatar series, the Royal family was isolated from the rest of Fire Nation society. Zuko had no way of knowing what the other Nations were really like, no way of knowing the truth about the war and no one had bothered to explain it to him. The one person that could have, did NOT. And yet people had expected him to just automatically know that he was being lied to and that his people were the villains. Zuko’s only social exposure was with Fire Lord Azulon, Fire Lord Ozai, Dragon Of The West General and Crown Prince Iroh, his cousin Prince Lu Ten, his mother Princess Ursa and his younger sister Princess Azula and her friends Mai and Ty Lee. All of whom believed in the Fire Nation propaganda and all of whom had no problem in participating in the war and making jokes about burning Ba Sing Se to the ground. Zuko was under scrutiny and aggression from Ozai. Ozai was Zuko’s ‘handler’, his ‘groomer’. He groomed Zuko into a certain type of submissive and obedient behavior. Zuko was not allowed to show any type of emotion otherwise he would suffer severe repercussions. Ozai and Azula taunted Zuko for having a sense of compassion and with how he was ostracized in a war loving family, he began to believe his behavior and way of thinking was unusual. It was like Azula said to Mai, “Your mother had certain expectations of you and when you strayed from them you were shot down.” In Zuko’s case, the expectations he strayed from resulted in severe punishment. Ozai was willing to permanently disfigure and traumatize Zuko when he was a thirteen year old boy. It’s not unusual to think that his punishments towards Zuko would sometimes very likely be physical and many people even write alternate universes of the Avatar series where Ozai was even more abusive than he already was. He was a manipulative man who brainwashed his daughter into being his perfect, obedient little slave and manipulated his son into questioning his own sense of reality. He would tell him that Azula was born lucky and he was lucky to be born, cementing Azula’s view of herself of receiving everything she wanted and turning her personality toxic while he made Zuko feel inferior and faulty. If there was something wrong with him, his father would tell him and he needed to fix it. But he never could. He strayed towards his mother, who like Iroh, abandoned Azula because of Ozai’s manipulation and did nothing to help her like they ‘helped’ Zuko.

When Zuko was thirteen he wanted to ‘prove’ himself to his father by attending one of his war meetings. Zuko very likely only wished to do what his father wanted because by then, Iroh had abandoned him when he left after the Siege of Ba Sing Se, his mother disappeared and his grandfather and cousin were both dead. The only ones he had left of his family were his father and sister who both abused him and he only wished for their approval and their affection. Humans need mutual affection. Children who do not receive affection from their parents, tend to not take that type of neglect well. Because people need affection to properly function. Our parents love us from when we are young and that emotional connection is something very important to every human being’s mental state. However, Zuko’s only source of affection, his mother, was taken away from him. Azula herself, had no source of affection. Not from her mother, who thought she was demented from her father’s brainwashing, nor from her brother who feared her, nor from her father who used her as a tool. Returning to the day of the Agni Kai, Zuko wished to be of use to his father, he craved his affection because that is what the abuser does. They make you believe they are the only ones who can validate you and if you do not abide by their rules or follow their orders then you mean nothing. Zuko for the most part from what I could see in the flashback, held his promise and did not speak. But when he refused to back down when his people were in danger, Ozai was not pleased. This is because he is an abuser. He is Zuko’s ‘handler’ and when someone who is abusing another person witnesses this type of behavior, they have a feeling of loss of control. They desire control, they crave it, over the abusee especially. So when Zuko showed empathy towards the Fire Nation citizens and did not do as Ozai wished, he decided to ‘rectify’ that. In the most BRUTAL way possible. An Agni Kai. A public spectacle where he would establish dominance over his son, over his pawn and he would make a show of it. He would show everyone that HE was the one in control and NO ONE could defy him. When Zuko refused to fight Ozai, because of his love for his father, Ozai only saw that as a weakness. Ozai is a psychotic man. The fact that he did not have any problem in burning his son so cruelly shows that he does not have any sense of morals. Going back to Zuko, a thirteen year old child at the time, he had just been punished for disobedience, for straying from his father’s expectations, in the worst way possible.

Zuko did what many people would say is the right thing to do. He tried to defend his people from a cruel man intent on sending them to their deaths. But in doing so, he had defied his father and was punished for it. He was punished....for trying to HELP people. His life was essentially DESTROYED and he was thrown out of his home...for trying to help people. For showing empathy towards others. He was punished in the worst way possible for defying his father. His entire perception of right and wrong was thrown out of balance. He was taught that the war was right and that the Fire Lord, his father, was all knowing. And his mother tried to teach him kindness and her lessons of kindness got him punished. The amount of physical and mental damage he had sustained from such a punishment would in some cases be irreversible. Iroh was right there with Zuko and he did nothing. I CAN understand why he did not step in during the Agni Kai. He had been gone from the Fire Nation, his brother had taken the throne and he could have very well himself been punished severely for intervening. However, why did he allow Zuko to continue to believe he was the one at fault? Everyone of us has seen Zhao, has seen the way he treated Zuko during his banishment. Zuko very likely spent those entire two years before Aang’s arrival, being subjected to that type of behavior from everyone around him. All of them blamed him, all of them very likely said that he’d deserved what had happened to him. No one was on his side. He ended up turning aggressive and cruel towards others, because that was the way his father behaved and it was his empathy towards others that got him punished in the first place. He said in The Storm ‘the safety of the crew doesn’t matter’, just like the general that called the 41st division ‘fresh meat’. It was easier for Zuko to lash out at others and be aggressive than to let them see his vulnerabilities and hurt him for them again. It was the same with Song and her mother. Ozai tried to force him to be cruel, he tried to groom him the same way he did Azula. They dehumanized the other Nations and Zuko behaved the exact same way he was expected to. ‘Their compassion would cost them’. It was exactly the way his father wanted him to be. It was what Iroh did not wish for him, and yet despite claiming he thought of Zuko as a son, he did not in any way try to convince Zuko to give up his quest during the two years he had been searching for something that at the time was believed did not exist. The only instance we were shown of Iroh saying anything against his search, and even that is a stretch, was in the Western Air Temple episode where Zuko has a flashback of Iroh telling him that ‘destiny was a funny thing’ when Zuko said it was his destiny to capture the Avatar. Iroh had time to run the White Lotus, an antiwar organization for two YEARS maybe even longer and he did not think of taking two MINUTES to talk to Zuko, to ease him into realizing the wrongs of the war. Okay, yes he could have passed it off as character growth. But how do you expect a person, surrounded by people telling him he was at fault, he had no choice, either obey or never come back, to realize something like that? How do you expect an abuse victim to accept help all by themselves when their abuser forces them to depend on them? Did Iroh take him to some Earth Kingdom villages to see that they aren’t the vicious savages the Fire Nation portrays them to be? Did he take Zuko to the Southern Water Tribe to see the damage done to them at the hands of his own country? No. Instead he acted like an oblivious old man who had no interest other than Pai Sho and speaking proverbs that Zuko could not hope to understand.

Two years Zuko spent looking and looking and he turned desperate to the point that he was willing to do anything to go home. And then The Avatar finally returned. And then the people that Zuko was raised to perceive as brutal savages continued to stand in his way. And did Iroh intervene? No. He still did nothing. He allowed Zuko to continue his pursuit and turn into the worst possible version of himself. People say that Zuko should own up to the consequences of his actions. And he should. But would he have done those actions had Iroh stopped him earlier? Would he have done any of the things he did when the only remaining adult figure in his life had told him otherwise? Would he have listened to Iroh? The answer is yes. He was willing to do what Ozai had expected of him so why would he not listen to Iroh with time and patience instead of waiting till the last possible moment to do so? Children don’t automatically know right from wrong from the moment of their birth. They are taught by their parents, by the adults in their lives and Zuko had Ozai as his parental influence. And Iroh knew that. He knew the type of man his brother was and he did not try to overwrite his brother’s abuse to help his nephew until Zuko was already on the path of no return. When they became refugees Iroh still did nothing until they got to Ba Sing Se and until Zuko, again in an act of desperation, tried to capture Appa. That was when he FINALLY decided to step in. Three years since Zuko’s banishment, sixteen years of his father’s influence and abuse and he decides the very moment his nephew is close to the brink of insanity is the perfect opportunity to DESTROY his entire world view. He had worked day in and day out for two years before Aang appeared, only for his uncle, someone he TRUSTED, to tell him it was all for NOTHING. Two years of TORTURING himself. A year of fighting against his Nation’s enemies and SUDDENLY he’s being told it was all for nothing. When Iroh and Zuko reunited, Iroh told him he found his way again ‘on his own’ like how Zuko told Ozai he had to learn everything ‘on his own’. And they were both right. Zuko had no one to help him. He had to suffer through so much on his own, without anyone’s help and they’re SURPRISED he acted the way he did. When everything came to ahead in Ba Sing Se with Katara, people thought ‘Oh Zuko has changed he’s going to help Katara.’ And when he did not they HATED him for it.

The reason for this is because Katara was the ‘good guy’ and Zuko was the ‘bad guy’. Black and white. Katara and Zuko shared a moment of understanding from both losing their mothers and Katara offered to heal his scar and he chose to side with Azula and both Katara and the viewers saw this as a betrayal on Zuko’s part. This assumption however is completely unjustified and unfounded. Everyone sees Zuko and the Fire Nation as the bad guys. The villains of the story. But Katara and the Water Tribes and Earth Kingdom were the bad guys in the Fire Nation’s eyes. Katara was the ‘savage’ standing in the way of Zuko going home. The Avatar was his home’s greatest ENEMY and THREAT. Had the situation been reversed and Katara had to choose between Zuko and the Water Tribe and her brother and father, people would have supported her choice because they were the good guys. Zuko’s people were the bad guys so it had to be the wrong decision and a betrayal to Katara and Iroh. But Zuko was an unstable, traumatized child who did not wish to believe his people were bad, who did not want to fight his home after he spent so long trying to capture Aang, his home’s greatest THREAT and ENEMY. Katara hated Zuko because he represented everything that the Fire Nation did to her family. And Zuko hated her because she was the ‘savage’ keeping him from his one way home. To Zuko, Katara was the bad guy. And looking back at their moment of sympathy where Katara said he betrayed her trust I can only ask one thing....how could Zuko have known that Katara wasn’t trying to trick him? Now, the viewers would automatically respond ‘Katara’s not like that! She wouldn’t do that!’ but the fact is, we the viewers KNOW Katara. We know she’s not that type of person because we got to know her through out the series. Zuko does NOT know her. To Zuko, she’s just another faceless enemy out to KILL his father. He chose Azula’s side because he could not accept what Iroh was saying to him because why hadn’t Iroh said so sooner? He did not want to join Aang’s side cause this was the AVATAR. The one out to KILL his FATHER and take down his HOME. When Zuko returned, he was conflicted about what he had done because he had begun to see how wrong his father and sister’s behavior and The Fire Nation’s war truly was. And Iroh cemented that further by proclaiming Zuko’s struggle was because of Roku and Sozin’s conflict when that was clearly not the case. Zuko was groomed and brainwashed by the Fire Nation propaganda like every other citizen but he was not dispelled from that belief by anyone. No one tried to make him question that belief. Iroh did not try to ‘help Zuko’ until the very last moment in Ba Sing Se. People believe Zuko betrayed Iroh because that’s how it’s supposed to be when Zuko was the ‘bad guy’ and Iroh was the ‘caring’ Uncle and ‘voice of reason’. And yet he did not think to ‘reason’ with Zuko before this entire mess even started. He did not in any way try to disrupt Zuko’s view of the other Nations or his father. In my opinion, IROH was the one who betrayed ZUKO. Iroh KNEW the entire time that what Zuko was doing was wrong. Zuko was a child who was not allowed to think for himself and Iroh KNEW Zuko was brainwashed by the exact same propaganda he himself had believed before he lost his son. If Iroh, who had believed in the Fire Nation for so many years, was unable to realize the wrongs of the war until his ADULTHOOD when he lost his son, how in the world did he expect a 13 year old child to do so? And Zuko became even more unstable and then he chose the Fire Nation.

When he realized it was wrong and went to join team Avatar, they were reasonably mistrusting.

Zuko’s redemption arc from a simple perspective, from team Avatar’s perspective was very well done. Team Avatar did not know what Zuko had been through. To them he was just another Fire Nation monster who had hurt them. To the audience, he was just another Fire Nation monster who had hurt the good guys. No one would think that deep into a fictional character’s perspective or psychological and mental state. No one would think past the ‘good guy’ and the ‘bad guy’. But one thing I cannot justify is Katara’s accusation of betrayal towards Zuko. As we have mentioned, Zuko and Katara were enemies who had a mutual hatred towards each other before his ‘redemption’. They had one single moment of shared empathy and understanding and that is NOT the basis for earned trust. What would Katara have done had she been in Zuko’s shoes? Fighting her enemies, fighting people she sees as nothing more than monsters and she has to choose between her long time enemy and her sibling and her home and her family. If she was in that position, she would choose Sokka and Hakoda and Aang and the Water Tribe over Zuko in a heartbeat because those are her FAMILY members and her FRIENDS and people would justify her because she’s the ‘good guy’. The hero. But Zuko is the villain so his actions automatically AREN’T justifiable. I understand Katara’s mistrust towards Zuko because of their history and because again, she doesn’t know anything about him or what he went through. But she cannot expect him to just automatically leave behind everything he’s ever known and ever believed in because of one single moment of understanding. Zuko should have done everything he could to make it up to the group because he owed it to them and they again, did not know any of his reasons for hunting them. But Zuko does not deserve to be labeled simply as ‘a bad guy turned good’ when he was NEVER a bad guy to begin with. When he was never even mentally stable enough to make that type of decision for himself. In today’s day and age Zuko and Azula would have BOTH ended up in a mental institution. And after all of the things he went through, Zuko was the one who ended up going back to Iroh and apologizing when Iroh was the one who abandoned him and then Zuko at 16 years old ended up as the leader of a nearly fallen apart country. He had to suffer through insomnia, assassination attempts and mental instability and abandonment. Iroh left to Ba Sing Se and only made two appearances in a total of SIX comic books after the end of the War and one of those was entirely brief. So while Iroh gets to enjoy the rest of his life selling tea, Zuko has to suffer the consequences for what his family did. He was also abandoned by Mai which brings me to another point.

Zuko’s toxic relationships.

Some people say they dislike Mai because she is emotionally abusive towards Zuko. It never occurred to me before but looking at it now, I have to say that I agree. In the comics after book 2 had ended it was shown that Azula used Mai’s childhood crush on Zuko to manipulate him into going back to the Fire Nation with her. And Mai.....I don’t even know how to get started on the entire mess that is their relationship. Mai is a person who does not like emotion. She doesn’t like to express herself and immediately shuts down anything even close to emotion. The same applies to Zuko. Zuko is a very emotionally unstable and insecure person. And instead of reassuring and calming him, Mai immediately cuts him off whenever he loses a handle of his emotions and just flat out ends their relationship on the spot. She gives Zuko no explanation, just gets angry at him and then all of a sudden when Zuko can’t take anymore and explodes she suddenly says she cares about him. Their relationship is toxic. Mai demeans his problems and things that trouble him. Quote “I just asked if you were cold, I didn’t ask for your whole life story.” when Zuko was nervous about going back home. She demeans his guilt towards Iroh and tries to make him feel better by ordering servants around. And then in the Boiling Rock episode she attacks him for his letter which is reasonable on her part, but there is the problem that despite being Zuko’s girlfriend, up until that point she was Azula’s subordinate first and foremost and she could have tried to let Azula know. Still was a shitty way of ending their relationship, I’m not gonna act like it wasn’t but I still wanted to put that perspective out there just for thought. Not to mention how she ended things in the comic books. The trust issue I understand. But I don’t understand how ONE single mistake would lead to her just immediately ending things instead of at least TRYING to work it out. She could have listened to him and seen why he was so upset and scared of messing up that he went to Ozai of all people for help. She did not stick by him when he needed her and that was what forever ruined their relationship for me.

In simple terms, Zuko was a bad guy who became a good guy and redeemed himself.

In psychological terms, Zuko was an abuse victim who was brainwashed since his childhood, blamed for it and made into a scapegoat while his sister ended up in a mental institution because of her father’s influence and because the same people who ‘helped’ Zuko didn’t think she deserved it too.

So from what I’ve seen while rewatching the series....

Zuko never needed redeeming. Zuko needed help.

And he didn’t get it.

#avatar the last airbender #zuko #zuko deserved better #azula #azula deserved better #zuko needs therapy #azula needs therapy

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strawberrystar7 · 3 years

Text

I think People misunderstood Chloé's arc and the season 3 finale (and especially Chloé's role in it.). And here is why I think that.

This is a really long post and I know it's hard to keep reading something as long as this but please, I ask you, either do not read it at all if you don't want to read something like this or read it completely. If you do decide to read this but stop in the middle because you want to comment on something I ask you to not do that. Please read all of it thoroughly. If you want to comment on something, take notes but don't post it before having read all, because if you do not read all you probably won't understand it correctly. Additionally, some things might have been answered later on in the post.

I think the true lesson the writers wanted to give with Chloé's arc and especially the Season 3 finale is that it's good to be forgiving and give second or maybe even 3rd chances but you shouldn't try and help someone who doesn't want to change. There was a time where she maybe wanted to change... I put the maybe there on purpose. This is because if I look at Chloé's behavior it isn't entirely clear if she ever wanted to change because she wants to help others or if she just wanted to "change" so she can have the Bee Miraculous.

Chloé's arc in actuality was a treason arc. It wasn't a redemption arc. On the surface it may have looked like one but if you look deeper I think you'll see the signs.

I know I am gonna get hate for saying the next bit but if you look closely (and I mean very closely) at Chloé's actions then you'll see what I mean. In season 1 Chloe was a stereotypical bully. In season 2 she actually got a backstory, explaining her actions. It basically made her look more like a real person. But even so her actions didn't really change. She stayed a bully. On surface level her actions did change a little, but on a lower level they didn't.

What do I mean with that? Take Despair Bear as an example she threw a party and invitated all her classmates. In itself that's a nice action but do you remember the reason why she threw the party? Adrien threatened to break up their friendship if she wasn't nicer to people. So her Butler Jean gave her the idea with the party and that she should be nice.

Yeah, I know this happened before the Queen's Battle trilogy (I know it's actually just a 2 part episode (Style Queen and Queen Wasp) but I count Malediktator as a 3rd part because it pretty much is a direct follow up to Queen Wasp.) but this is supposed to serve as an example for Chloé's behavior in season 2.

Now look at Zombizou. Chloé gave Miss Bustier a present the day after her birthday. Do you remember why this happened? Marinette called Chloé out for not having brought one and pretty much embarrassed her infront of the class (I know the way she called her out was mean but that's not the point here). In the end Chloé most likely would never have brought a gift if this didn't happen.

I think this Episode also came before the Queens Battle trilogy but I'm not sure. Anyway even if it was before, it still shows how Chloé behaves most of the time when she does good things.

Now let's look at the Queen's Battle trilogy. In the Style Queen episode we see for the first time how Audrey treats Chloé and while it does explain why Chloé does what she does it doesn't mean her actions are excusable. It makes her actions understandable to the viewers and it makes her, as already mentioned, look more like an actual human being. In that episode we do not really see any more about Chloé and her past or actions besides her finding the Box with the Bee Miraculous.

After that Queen Wasp follows. In this episode the first scene where Chloe plays a rather major role is the scene with Gabriel Agreste, Audrey Bourgeois, André Bourgeois, Tom Dupain, Sabine Cheng, Adrien Agreste, Marinette Dupain-Cheng and of course Chloé Bourgeois. In this scene we see Audrey taking Marinette's feather hat after it rolls infront of her. She inspects it and remarks that it isn't Gabriel's. She then asks if Marinette is responsible for the hat, which Marinette replies to with her having created the hat. You know the rest Gabriel admits she won a fashion contest, Audrey remarks the hat is "exceptional", and then she asks Marinette if she wants to go to New York. That is where Chloé comes in, claiming to never having been in New York. She also asked why she was taking Marinette. Audrey replies with Marinette being "exceptional". Chloé then says that she's "exceptional" too. Audrey then says the following "The only exeptionial thing about you, my dear... is your mother.". I think you know the rest André tries to step in but is interrupted by Chloé who transforms into Queen Bee infront of everyone to proof that she is exceptional.

This wasn't simply to prove her mother wrong tho. She did it to prove to everyone that she's exceptional and her behaviors later on that episode prove that exact point. Queen Bee then disappears.

The others go home and Queen Bee looks around the city to see if there's anything she can do but doesn't find anyone who needs saving. She then thinks of that plan with the train and calls Nadja Chamak to gain publicity for her heroic deeds. As already mentioned this pretty much proves my point. If she really jzst wanted to prove Audrey wrong then why call in one of Paris's star reporters?

After the call she heads towards the metro. She runs on the side of the metro and enters the driver's room. She then Calls out her venom and numbs the driver. The metro speeds up and Queen Bee turns on the metro TV saying she'll save them (this pretty much was to gain even more publicity). Queen Bee isn't able to stop the metro and Ladybug and Cat Noir come in to help stop the metro. Ladybug calls Chloé out for numbing the train driver and Nadja Chamak comes with Audrey Bourgeois on a live call. Audrey then says the following "What? Regarding my daughter's ineptitude? I think it speaks for itself, doesn't it?". Ladybug asks Chloé to give the Miraculous back but Chloé keeps it and runs away with it. Queen Bee then gets akumatized before she transforms back causing her to turn in Queen Wasp. I don't think it's important to mention what happened while she was Queen Wasp because in this case she wasn't willingly akumatized just like Antibug which also means she wasn't herself unlike Chameleon and Miracle Queen who both were willingly akumatized and both kinda knew what happened while they were akumatized.).

When she gets deakumatized Marinette later comes in and tries to help fix Chloé's and Audrey's relationship (atleast as much as it can be fixed) by pretty much insulting both of them and saying "You're also wrong about your daughter not being exceptional. In fact, Chloé is exceptionally mean. She's the worst person I've ever met. She may be more heinous, pompous and selfish than you. Compared to both of you, even a rock seems more capable of love.". Chloé and Audrey then pretty much shout at the same time "How dare you⁈". They then see they do have a lot in common. The episode then pretty much ends after 2 more short scenes (both scenes do not have anything to do with Chloé so I don't think they are important.).

Now let's look at Malediktator. The episode starts with Chloé's documentary about Queen Bee where Chloé-Bee and Chloé-Bug (I'm gonna call her that because that's Chloé with a Queen Bee costume and Chloé with a Ladybug costume) talk about how great of a superhero Queen Bee is. Then it zooms out to reveal that the documentary is watched by Chloé's classmates.

Ivan then points out that isn't Ladybug. Chloé says it is Ladybug and Miss Bustier asks why Chloé did the assignment about herself.

Chloé then says they were supposed to choose an important person in French history. Chloé-Bug talks more about Queen Bee. Alya then points out that's Chloé with a Ladybug costume. This discussion goes on for a bit until Chloé leaves.

Chloé and Audrey then storm in to André's office while a pair is getting married. They force them out and Audrey tells André to close the school while Chloé tells him to ban Marinette and her family.

Audrey then says the following "That monster hurt your little girl’s feelings.". Chloé adds "She got the whole class to gang up on me. They all have to pay.". You probably know the rest. André says he can't do that and Chloé and Audrey leave him alone in his office and say they'll leave for New York. Chloé is then in the Bourgeois suite packing (or more like telling her Butler to pack for her.) André comes in to argue with Chloé and Audrey to stay in Versailles or near Paris.

Hawk Moth akumatizes André after Audrey and Chloé leave with the helicopter.

Chloé flies over the school with her helicopter, throwing flyers showing Chloé in front of the statue of liberty and saying she'll leave for New York. The students celebrate after Chloé leaves.

Malediktator stops the helicopter and says he has the power to close the school and banish the students who were mean to her. He then commands Audrey to be devoted to him and stay in Paris. Chloé runs away/hides. Some time passes and Ladybug goes to Chloé asking her why Malediktator is mad.

Chloé doesn't want to say at first and blames Marinette, then saying André got mad all by himself but then she admits to being the cause of her fathers akumatization.

Then this happens:

Ladybug: Because of what happened in school? I'm sure Marinette probably didn't exactly mean what she said.

Chloé: Oh, it's not just her— actually, I don't even care about her— it's because I have no reason to be here: nobody likes me; I have no friends. I'm… useless.

Ladybug: (remembering what Adrien told Marinette earlier at school about Chloé) A friend once told me: nobody is useless, Chloé.

Chloé: It's easy for you to say that. You're Ladybug, a superhero. You serve a purpose.

Ladybug: Yes, I can fix up all the messes. You said it yourself in your documentary.

Chloé: (gasps) You saw it?!

Ladybug: (nods) Mm-hmm.

Chloé: Oh! I'm so embarrassed. That film's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I realize that now.

Ladybug: Don't worry Chloé. You can fix your own messes, if that's what you want. You, too, can serve a purpose, but you have to want to.

Chloé: (sniffles) I do want to.

Ladybug: Chloé Bourgeois, (holds out the Miraculous box) here is the Bee Miraculous, which grants you the power to immobilize your opponent. You will use it for the greater good.

(Chloé hesitates; Ladybug nods approvingly; Chloé takes the box and opens it; a yellow ball of light flies around her and Pollen appears.)

Pollen: At your service, my Queen.

Ladybug: Once the job is complete, you will return the Miraculous to me. Can I trust you, Chloé?

Chloé: (puts the haircomb in her hair) I won't disappoint you this time, Ladybug.

Then Chloé transforms into Queen Bee.

Queen Bee and Ladybug (with the help of Cat!Cat Noir) defeat Malediktator.

Then this happens:

Ladybug: Yep, you missed Queen Bee and Ladybug saving Paris, for real this time.

Queen Bee: I understand, Ladybug. Buzz off. (transforms back into Chloé)

Chloé: (gives back her Miraculous) Being a superhero isn't only about fixing messes. (Ladybug holds up her hand in a fist; Chloé gasps and smiles)

Chloé and Ladybug: (fist-bump) Pound it!

After that Chloé and her family leave.

Then this happens:

Chloé: It's okay, Jean-Yves; I'll take care of it.

Butler Jean: Mademoiselle, are you sure?

Chloé: Yes, I need to do it myself.

Marinette: Chloé?

Chloé: (gasps) Dupain-Cheng?

After that Marinette brings Chloé to the school showing her they threw a party for her. That's pretty much how the episode ends.

I guess this is the episode (Malediktator) that convinced everyone Chloé was changing (and maybe at this point in time she truly did want to change. But I'll explain later on in the text why it did not work out.). After all it literally showed scenes where Chloé was nice without her benefitting from it. And honestly the earlier episodes did not show that Chloé was going to change. The earlier episodes gave depth to her character and kinda explained her actions but they didn't really make her look like she wanted to change. The end of the Malediktator episode tho? It did look like she wanted to change or atleast it made it seem like that. But as I implied Chloé's arc is way more complicated than you think. It can't be just written of as bad or inconsistent writing. Read more and you'll see exactly why this isn't just inconsistent/bad writing.

I don't think we saw much of Chloé in the season 2 finale besides her appearance as Queen Bee again. But honestly I do not remember much about the season 2 finale anyway.

Now let's look at season 3. (I just remembered I forgot about Animaestro. I forgot where in the season that happened but I just put it in the beginning because I feel like it would ruin the flow of the text.) In Animaestro Chloé literally teams up with Marinette to ruin Kagami's day (This was just to show that Chloé still did stuff like in season 1). Anyway, not only is it pretty clear that Chloé would love to be Queen Bee again but she also probably would do anything to be Queen Bee again. So she constantly asks for her Miraculous (seen in Startrain and other episodes) or she pretty much shows everyone how proud she is of being Queen Bee, seeking attention for that (Maledikator). In Miraculer Chloé waits to get her Miraculous but doesn't get it. Then Lila tells Chloé about a fake dance which summons Ladybug. Chloé gets really angry when the dance failed and then lashes out at Sabrina telling her she doesn't want to play with her. Chloé then breaks down after not getting the Miraculous for some time, resulting into the scene where Chloé resists getting akumatized. Instead, Sabrina is the one getting akumatized. Some time later a cataclysmed Cat Noir tries to give Chloé the Miraculous but because of his cataclysmed rips he ends up loosing the Miraculous to Mayura.

You probably know the rest. Rena Rouge makes a Chloé illusion in Ladybug's place, Ladybug gets her powers back, Chloé makes Miraculer even angrier, Ladybug (with the help of Cat Noir, Rena Rouge, Carapace) gets the Bee Miraculous back and gives it to Chloé. Chloé follows Mayura but looses her. After the fight Ladybug talks to Chloé.

This happens:

Queen Bee: Ladybug. Mayura got away from me. I'm sorry, utterly sorry.

Ladybug: That's okay, Queen Bee. We'll get her next time. (reaches hand out for the Bee Miraculous)

Queen Bee: If you'd given it to me earlier, we'd probably would've defeated Hawk Moth.

Ladybug: I'm sorry, Chloé. I should've told you this a long time ago. I might never be able to let you be Queen Bee again.

Queen Bee: What? But I did everything you asked me to.

Ladybug: I know. But this is for your own safety. It's too dangerous for you and your loved ones because Hawk Moth knows that you're Queen Bee.

Queen Bee: Buzz off. (turns back into Chloé and gives Miraculous to Ladybug)

Chloé: I understand. But I'm sure that you'll need me again, Ladybug. I know that I'll be Queen Bee again someday. I will always be Queen Bee.

Ladybug: (notices her Miraculous beeping) Thank you, Chloé. Let's go. (takes off with Rena Rouge and Carapace)

Despite saying that Chloé said she understood she can't have the Miraculous anymore she did not understand.

I know one of the arguments people have was that if Ladybug stayed longer to explain more thoroughly Chloé would have understood. But what do you want Ladybug to do? Risk her identity? She was on her last 5 minutes. Probably less considering how a couple minutes probably flew by from the moment she called out her lucky charm to the moment she called out Miraculous Ladybug. So probably 2 or 3 minutes were already gone from her timer. Additionally, she still needs atleast a minute to not risk her identity getting revealed while she takes Rena Rouge's and Carapace's Miraculous. There was no more time to spare. Despite that I don't really think Chloé would have understood even if Ladybug had more than 2 minutes to spare. Not with how self-centered she is.

Well there had been some smaller incidents with Chloé treating people badly (Animaestro fo example) but that aside those were small moments. I think the next big Chloé moment would pretty much be Heart Hunter and Miracle Queen. Heart Hunter proved that Chloé did not learn from what Ladybug said. She still waited on her rooftop with her Bee signal for Ladybug to come and give her the Miraculous. In the end of the episode we see her so angry at Ladybug for not giving her the Miraculous that she willingly worked with Hawk Moth and actively forcing her will onto Pollen.

This is what happens:

Hawk Moth: (puts up his hand and interrupts) You're right, but I did it for one reason only. So that you would finally realize that Ladybug will never give you the Bee Miraculous again. I, however, always keep my promises. (shows her the Bee Miraculous in his hand)

Chloé: This isn't real! How do you have it?

Hawk Moth: Try it and see for yourself. You're Ladybug's greatest fan. You've helped her, you've trusted her, and what has she done for you in return?

Chloé: (gets angry) Nothing! She couldn't care less about me! I'm done with her. She's irrelevant, utterly irrelevant! (reaches out to grap the Miraculous, stops) I want you to deakumatize has my parents first!

Hawk Moth: Whatever you say, my queen. (Chloé takes the comb and puts it in her hair, releasing Pollen)

Pollen: (urgently) Your majesty, wait!-

Chloé: Silence! You will speak only when spoken to. Your loss, Ladybug. Pollen, buzz on! (transforms into Queen Bee)

She then gets willingly akumatized.

In Miracle Queen we then see her actively work for Hawk Moth, even revealing all the Miraculous Holders. After she gets deakumatized she seems to still have her memory, considering how she wasn't disoriented like every other Akuma Victim. She even jumps after another Akuma.

Chloé also does and says the following "I'm not on your side anymore! How many times have I asked to fight alongside you? And how many times have you refused to give me back my Miraculous? How many, huh? Hawk Moth isn't my enemy, he's yours! And the Miracle Box is mine! (Queen Bee slams down the Miracle Box, and opening it, starts putting on all of the Miraculouses)".

This pretty much proves my point further. Chloé never let go of the Bee Miraculous, thinking it was her own and she had every right to obtain it whenever she wants. The fact that she's only concerned about getting the Miraculous even proves further that she doesn't really care about helping others. All she cares about is her self and as established before this had always been the case. Even in the Queen's Battle trilogy.

Think about it. Chloé is so deadset on keeping the Bee Miraculous that she would do anything. And if I say anything I mean anything. She literally worked with Hawk Moth to get the Miraculous. So if getting the Miraculous and all the attention that comes with it means that she has to help others she'd gladly do it. If helping others means she gets attention she'd gladly do it. We've seen it in Despair Bear and other episodes. Ladybug used to be Chloé's idol so to get her attention she pushed the mind controlled Cat Noir away. To get Adrien's attention she threw the party and was nice to the others. But the moment people didn't look she acted mean. This isn't even the only season 2 or 3 episode this happened. It is totally in character for Chloé to have reacted the way she did in the season 3 finale. Just because she turned bad again doesn't mean she's a 2 dimensional character. She still has the same backstory and all as she had before. The only difference here is that she openly worked with Hawk Moth. So why is she suddenly a horribly written character? Just because she worked with Hawk Moth?

Well let me tell you something: Just look at her relationship with her father. He never denied her anything. He always did everything she wanted. She would throw a tantrum if she doesn't get what she wants. So don't you think it's totally in character for Chloé to react the way she did when Ladybug refused to give her the Miraculous? It's the equivalent to the tantrum of a spoiled rich girl (or boy) would throw if they don't get what they want. The only difference here being that a magical terrorist pretty much took advantage of that tantrum.

As you can see the way she acted was not out of character. It was completely in character for Chloé. In fact, it was so in character that if we've taken the time to truly look at her then we all would have seen it. I gotta admit, I myself got completely deceived the first time I watched Malediktator and Miraculer. I myself thought, maybe she could change (and I still think so). The first time I watched Heart Hunter and Miracle Queen I also thought it was bad writing and I also hated that finale. I thought they did her dirty. I literally blamed the writers like all the others and stated on YouTube how bad of a Episode that was. But now? Now that I actually took the time to rewatch the Episodes (not just the finale but generally any episode) over and over again just to see all the small details people talked about that I never noticed, I noticed those details about Chloé that I didn't before.

People always claim the finale is horrible because they made Chloé out of character... but... In fact, the Season 3 finale is actually good. It may have some plot holes because the writing of the show honestly sometimes isn't the best. There's some episodes that are badly written and have loads of plot holes. But the season 3 finale? It might just be one of the better written episodes. And that only because of the fact that they sticked to how a girl like Chloé would actually react to getting told off like that. And I know for a fact that girls as spoiled as Chloé would react like that because I met a fair share of people like that. They all threw a huge tantrum when they got told off.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Chloé doesn't have the potential to change. Infact, she definitely has the potential to change. But not like this. Chloé needs to hit rock bottom before she can actually change. And no, getting told you can't have the Bee Miraculous anymore is not rock bottom. The first thing that needs to happen is for her father to stand up to her. And as seen in (⚠️Season 4 Spoiler warning⚠️) Queen Banana André finally did stand up to Chloé. If he keeps that up that might be good start (⚠️End of Spoiler⚠️). After Chloé doesn't get everything she wants from her father anymore there's two things that can happen: Either she becomes a complete lost cause and doesn't learn anything from it or rather she doesn't want to learn or she learns that not everything will always go her way and that she can't have everything (specifically the Bee Miraculous, as you can't buy it.). This also might cause her to become less selfish and start thinking more about the others. Even if that doesn't happen maybe Zoé (because she's Chloé's half sister) or Adrien (because he is/was Chloé's childhood best friend and would love to help her) could come in to help Chloé become less selfish. But again for that to happen Chloé first needs to learn that not everything goes how she wants it and she can't have everything. And again this won't happen if everything is handed to her like it has been all these years.

Please understand that I am not hating on Chloé. Chloé may even be one of my favorite characters for the exact reasons I mentioned here. Because even tho she's a stereotypical bully she has depth to her character. And if she'll ever truly change she'd might just become one of the more relatable characters in the show.

And I know I am none of the writers so I do not know what they thought while writing the finale and the rest of Chloé's arc but to me this seems like the most logical explanation. I do not think the writers hate Chloé. That just makes no sense. They have developed her past and backstory and stuff like that way too much for them to hate her. If they truly hated her I don't even think they would have developed her character like that. If they truly hated her they would have left her like Lila with little to no information about her past or basically anything that explains her actions.

So please, I ask you please do not harass the writers for their decisions. Just please for once try to understand their thought process. Maybe you just didn't truly understand what they meant because as I explained Chloé's arc was deceiving. On the surface it looked like a redemption arc but truly it wasn't.

I am not claiming to have fully understood what the writers where trying to say but I do think I got close to what they were trying to say. I am also very sorry if I might have not been able to explain some of the points well. While I did rewatch every episode while writing this I did not want to put in every single episode (which might have gotten my points across even better) as the post has already gotten way too long. Not many people like to read much so probably only a few will even have read this completely. But to those who did take the time to read it all, thank you for having taken the time. I'd really like to hear your opinion on my take on this topic. Because while I do think this might be somewhat close to what the writers where trying to do it most likely isn't exactly what they wanted. I'd really like to hear your opinion on my take on this topic. Because as I said while I do think this might be somewhat close to what the writers where trying to do it most likely isn't exactly what they wanted. Maybe some of you have something to debunk or maybe even strengthen my points. Both is fine as long as everyone's nice towards each other. I do not want to see some kind of war. So please be kind towards each other.

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