#salem tortures oscar

[arc-misadventures]

That Backfired, Sorta?

Salem standing over a bruised, and beaten, Jaune Arc bound to a chair. Preparing to interrogate him for information on the, Relic of Destruction.

Salem: I do find torture quite ineffective as a means of extracting information. So I choose to use more refined methods of information.

Jaune: Like… Grimm mind bugs that dig into my brain to get information?!

Salem: No.

Jaune: Oh that gods…

Salem: The shock from the bug going in kills them before anything can be extracted.

Jaune: Eh?!

Salem: Besides I have a far more effective means of getting information.

Jaune: Like what?

Salem: I can read minds.

Jaune: You can?!

Salem: I can.

Jaune: If you can do that, why did you beat, Oscar to a pulp instead of doing that?

Salem: Ozma.

Jaune: …

Jaune: Fuck that’s a good reason… B-But, you shouldn’t read my mind!

Salem: And, why shouldn’t I do that?

Jaune: You just shouldn’t. You really shouldn’t do that!

Salem: Oh~? Afraid I’ll find what I’m looking for if I do?

Jaune: I prefer if you did honestly…

Salem: Alright then. Let’ssee where your little friends have hidden my Relics!

Salem stared at, Jaune in the eyes, as a pearlescent screen covered her eyes as she stared into the depths of, Jaune’s.

Salem: “Now then, lets see what you’re trying to hide~!”

Jaune: P-Please … Stop!

Jaune could hear her voice in his head, he yelled in fear as she opened a door leading to that secret he was trying to keep away from her.

She smiled as she forced her way through the door, and as she entered the room in his mind her smile swiftly fell.

Salem: “W-What is this?”

Salem: “ … “

Salem: “Wait… i-i-is he kissing me?!”

Salem: “Why is he taking his shirt off?!”

Salem: “Ohh~! D-Did he just grab my b…?”

Salem: “Why is he taking his pants… Oh…? Oh my~!”

Jaune: What’s going on?!

Salem: “Really? Do you think you can so easily bed a, Queen with just that”

Jaune: B-Bed?

Salem: “Mmm~! So forceful~!”

Jaune: Get out of my head!

Salem: “What is this position?”

Jaune: The fuck are you talking about?!!

Salem: “You are so, so much bigger than, Ozma~!”

Jaune: Uhh…? Context?

Salem: “Inside? But, what if…? No… that’s precisely what you want, isn’t it?”

Jaune: What is it that I want?

Salem: “Oh you naughty boy~! Oh, what’s this? Aww… it’s over already?”

Jaune: What’s over already? Ahh?! What the hell are you looking at?!

Salem: “Oh? What’s this…?”

Jaune: What now?!

Salem: “My hand…? Is that… is that a ring? And, wait… my belly…”

Jaune: A ring, belly? Whaaaa?

Salem; “A boy…?”

Jaune: Eh?

Salem: “I never had a boy before…”

Jaune:Okayyyyy…?

Salem: “Oh, what’s this? Your mother’s record?”

Jaune: What record…?

Salem: “I could beat that, easily~!”

Jaune: What?!

Salem: “Wait? W-Where’s my baby boy?! Where’s my child?! And, whose hand is this?! Wait… This is… this is your hand…”

Jaune: My hand?

Salem: “Why is it all so wrinkly? Wait, no! Nonononono! Don’t tell me! Not again?!”

Jaune: What are you talking about?

Salem: “Y-You’re not leaving me…? B-But… you’re dying…”

Jaune: I’m dying?!

Salem: “In my heart…? you’ll always be with me… even if it’s just as a beautiful memory in my heart…?”

Salem: “I won’t be alone? How is that… My children…? My grandchildren…”

Salem: “I won’t be alone… I will still be loved… I will have a family…?”

Jaune: Okay stop this! G-G-Get out of my head!

Salem red eyes came back into view. She stared at, Jaune as she stood up, unsealing the bands that bound him to the chair.

Jaune rubbed his wrists as he watched, Salem take a nervous step away from him as a shy blush spread across her face.

Salem: Y-You said your name was, Jaune right?

Jaune: Yeah…?

Salem: So… do you want to try beating your mother record now, or would you prefer if we waited till after you’re body has healed?

Jaune: What are you talking…?!

Jaune stopped talking as he noticed something peculiar.

Jaune: “Why is she rubbing her thighs like that? The last time I saw a woman do that was when, Terra ask me to…?! Oh… Ohhhhhhh!”

Jaune: …

Jaune: N-Now is good…

Salem: Wonderful~!

#rwby #jaune arc #rwby salem #rwby ozpin #oscar pine #terra cortta arc #jaune x salem #salem x jaune #rwby grimmknight

[rwbyrg]

So, we can all agree that when Oscar eventually gets his semblance, it's going to have something to do with Ruby, right? And I'm not even saying this from a shippy lens. Kid has an immortal wizard move into his brain at 14 that he can't kick out, immediately becomes a child soldier, lives through a train crash, countless grimm fights, crash lands a plane, gets shot in the chest, falls for - quite possibly - a few kilometres after blowing up a hole in the bottom of a military compound, gets beaten up and abducted by a goopy grimm super monster, magic blasted by his headmate's ex-wife, tortured and beaten up by a man six times his size, fights off Salem again to save his friends, and not ONE of those instances has been stressful enough to awaken it.

But both times he's talked about his semblance manifesting, it's been with Ruby. The first is in v5 after they spar and Ruby cheers him (and Jaune) on about getting there one day, while Ren makes a comment saying:

"One common philosophy is that a warrior's semblance is a part of who they are".

The second time is in v7 when Ruby does something new with her own semblance and Oscar asks if she's always been able to do that. Eventually leading to him lamenting again about how he's not unlocked his yet while everyone else's are evolving. And it's Ruby that responds with:

"Well, I'm sure we'll all be jealous when you do (figure it out)".

And then, from both Ruby and Oscar's perspectives, we are shown their attachment to each other. Ruby throughout V9 with Neo's illusions, and Oscar with - many instances - but especially in the recently released epilogue where he speaks at her grave. And in this speech we're reminded of that attachment as well as his struggles with identity. Specifically how those two things are intrinsically linked together:

"You always believed in the best. Saw people for who they really were. Some of us... don't know anymore. "

Oscar can't grasp his own personal super power that's "a part of himself" when he doesn't know who he is. He's losing himself to the merge, the boundaries of where he ends and Oz begins are blurring by the day, and he's only 15 and still growing into the person he could become. And the one person that was always certain of who he was, always made him feel like he was his own person... isn't around anymore. So he feels even more detached from his identity and the parts that comprise it than ever before.

But she returns in Vacuo before their final fight, and his semblance has been teased too many times to never appear. So my current guesses are either:

he's going to unlock it under stress to save Ruby from certain danger, because he "lost her once and won't risk it a second time"; or

he's going to unlock it in a different, maybe even quieter moment, where - once again, thanks to Ruby's certainty - he starts feeling like himself again.

Only one way to find out.

#greenlight volume 10 #as to guesses on what his semblance will BE #well #that's a different meta entirely #rwby #oscar pine #theories #rwby theory #rwby meta #meta #analysis #not technically #rosegarden #rwby rosegarden #but i'll tag it anyway

[chaikachi]

How Oscar's Volume 8 & Ruby's Volume 9 Stories Mirror Each Other

They both "fall" in the previous season's finale.

Point of View Framing when they're both in moments of intense stress.

Hound created by Salem vs. Cat created by Brother Gods as antagonists.

Isolated from their friends and brought right to the enemy's lair (Oscar kidnapped and brought without choice vs. Ruby choosing to leave but finding her way there by chance).

Both having to go a large portion of their respective volumes without their weapons.

Physical torture vs. psychological torture.

Both at the hands of enemies from their past (Oscar V4-5 + Oz's history with Hazel and Salem vs. Ruby V1-3 with Torchwick and Neo).

Illusionist that helps vs. illusionist that harms.

Happy reunion, vs. horrifying reunion

Explosion of gold vs. silver magic when escaping.

"I was stupid to think the General would listen. Every choice I've made was the wrong one, and now-" vs. "I just wanted to do the right thing but every step of the way it's like there is no right thing. I tried so hard... and I may have just done more harm than good."

"I started to feel like me. Not the same me I was before all of this, but... the me I always wanted to be." vs. "I don't understand who I need to be. Because who I am right now... she's not cutting it."

"Our souls are still on the inevitable path to becoming one." / "But I don't want that." (alternatively: "I'm just going to be another one of his lives, aren't I?" circa v5) vs. "What if you could be anyone?"

"She wasn't the same girl anymore." vs. "I don't want to be me anymore."

#something something 'through the looking glass' #the way this isn't even all of them #the way there are even more if you don't keep it to just the two volumes #i can't TAKE IT #rwby #ruby rose #oscar pine #meta #analysis #rwby meta #chainalysis #long post #rosegarden #rwby rosegarden

[bestworstcase]

@foxgirltail from here

Op what's your take on that scene in v8 where she says "I see you've been training that semblance of yours" with enough poison in her voice to coat a blade

salem hates being lied to. this is one of her most prominent traits. in V4, cinder begins to lose salem’s favor because salem suspects that she’s not telling the truth about ozpin. (“i am going to ask you this one more time, and i expect a clear answer: did you kill ozpin?”) in V5, salem expresses her displeasure with cinder by accusing her of dishonesty—“i thought you were the girl who wanted power; did you lie to me?” and in V6, she flies off the handle because hazel lies to her face. (“we all know who’s truly to blame!”)

in V8, she plays nice with oscar until he lies to her, whereupon she turns around, tortures him with zero warning and a smile on her face, and then says “the lies come out of you so easily; likeminded souls, indeed,” which really cuts to the heart of why she reacts so badly when people lie to her. ozma broke her trust, deceived her for years about what he intended to do and why, and she’s still not over it.

salem personally dislikes emerald—she keeps a lid on it for the most part in V4-5, but she snaps when cinder calls emerald over to answer the ozpin question (“no! …i want to hear you say it”); in V6, salem makes a spectacle of forcing emerald to Tell Her The Truth that hazel tried to cover up For Emerald’s Sake. and i think this is because of what emerald’s semblance is.

she can make you see and hear things that aren’t real. she can hide things not just from human senses, but also from grimm—which means that em, like ren, can mask emotions. emerald can make your brain lie to you.

(semblances are widely seen as manifestations of a person’s character, too.)

so the venom in “that semblance of yours” is, i think, very personal. a bit later, salem can’t even bring herself to say emerald’s name—“this one was helping them”—because it isn’t coming from a place of generalized contempt. she has a specific problem with emerald and emerald’s semblance, she reacts viciously whenever anyone lies to her, and emerald actually fooled her for a minute or so.

[nightmare-foundation]

Genuinely hate how people routinely excuse salems actions in The Lost Fable tbh. Specifically regarding their kids.

Like, I'm sorry, but Salem NEVER cared about them. They were collateral damage. She used her own daughters silhouettes to taunt Oz, and she was the one who attacked first.

"Those kids would've lived if Oz hadn't tried sneaking them out!" So we're agreeing that Salem was an active danger to both Oz and their daughters? She shot first, and Oz HAD to retaliate to protect them, and unfortunately failed.

And she used their kids silhouettes to TAUNT Oz and Oscar. There's never anything that so much as IMPLIES Salem grieved for their children. Even IF she grieved and moved on, no SANE mother uses her dead children to taunt her ex. And Salem isn't the type to just... move on; that isn't in her character. The only answer is that she NEVER grieved nor cared.

Meanwhile it's full on said that Oz grieved, for several LIVES, while drowning himself in alcohol in an attempt to forget what happened, possibly killing himself several times via alcohol poisoning. Any good father would react badly to losing his children in a horrible accident like that.

Also did we just... forget that Salem caused EVERYTHING in the show?? She indirectly killed Pyrrha, Penny, destroyed Beacon, destroyed Atlas, wrecked Haven, and has killed COUNTLESS innocent people including actual CHILDREN, regardless of if they were in the Academies or not. She tortured and manipulated Cinder when Cinder disobeyed her, tried the same with Emerald when she defected, tried killing hazel when he did the same. Not only that but she experimented on innocent SEWs, turning them into monsters. Plus she tortured an actual 15 year old. And that's not even getting into the sheer amount of manipulation that goes into Tyrian.

And what has Oz done?

Uh... leave out that Salem was immortal to a bunch of kids, gave them an out and told them the war was dangerous, and blamed himself for the Fall of Beacon and Pyrrhas death. The only thing that's pretty bad was the fact he lied to his inner circle, but even then just about one thing.

He could've taken Ravens shape shifting magic at any time. Oz is an immortal wizard, he could've absolutely tracked her down and taken back his magic. But he didn't, as a show of TRUST, despite the fact that she'd use her magic to hurt people. Oz left a metaphorical door open for her if Raven ever wanted to return.

If this were Salem? If he were anything like her?

Raven would be DEAD.

But Oz is actually a good person so... she's not.

The Academies were made to give people the tools and resources to protect themselves from Grimm, while also effectively helping push Salem back. People going into the Academies KNOW what they're signing up for. The Grimm aren't just gonna sit back, they're ALWAYS going to inevitably attack. It's better if people actually, yknow, know how to fight and protect others. And the youngest people normally go into them is 17 years old. And they have training missions, so if they want to back out, they can at ANY time.

Anyways Salem fucking sucks, Oz is nothing like her, and yall need to quit sucking her metaphorical dick. She's a good character, very interesting and complex, but she's genuinely horrible. If you still agree with Salem after knowing what she's done... please don't have kids.

#felix (host) #rwby #ozpin #salem #rwby salem #raven branwen #ruby rose #summer rose #indirectly mentioned them lol #pyrrha nikos #penny polendina #hazel rainart #emerald sustrai #cinder fall #tyrian callows #rwby rambles

[strqyr]

running out of time. that's the underlying feeling i get from the epilogue; the heroes don't have the luxury of waiting for their enemy to make the first move.

the merge is happening faster and faster; oscar's eyes keep flashing green, he collapses to the ground, ren can tell he's not being himself lately... if they intend to save oscar from the merge, they're running out of time, and their options are limited.

the most obvious choice would be to fulfill ozma's mission, but a) that's easier said than done, and b) there's no guarantee ozma will pass on the moment he fulfills his goal given by the god of light, stopping the merge in an instant.

still, they've got to do something.

then there's vale; after atlas, salem arrived and razed the city so that there's nothing left. my first instinct for her reasoning was to find the crown any means necessary, but there's another possibility:

"time isn't on your side, james. it's always been on mine. the people of atlas have suffered enough. surrender the staff and the lamp to me, and they needn't suffer any further. [...] simply accept the futility of your situation... and this can all be over."

hiding the relics within the academies was to have them protected by huntsmen and huntresses—most in training, few not—at all times; these are the people who have, at least to some extent, agreed to fight and protect the kingdoms from grimm.

salem wants the crown, her victory lies in it; torturing oscar didn't get the desired results, and now the lamp is out of questions.

what to do next, then, to force ozpin's hand to reveal its location?

after the fall of beacon, the people of vale suffered. maybe they had suffered enough... but oz didn't surrender the crown's location, and now they've suffered more.

how long will ozpin keep the crown's location secret? can he think of it as justified, now that salem has escalated far beyond what the fall originally was, with vale gone and many civilians potentially dead? how horrified would he have been, hearing the news in the first place?

time has always been on salem's side. it is most definitely not on oscar's side. something needs to happen, something needs to change.

the heroes are going to have to act in some way; there's no time to wait, anymore.

#rwby #rwby spoilers #i get the feeling ozpin is going to tell the gang where the crown is #and if it so happens to be on patch... #ruby & yang are going to want to get moving

[howlingday]

Cinder: (Via scroll) Oscar, I think you deserve a reward~. Come meet me behind Shade Academy~.

Oscar: (Eyes wide) What?!

Salem: (Looks at Cinder) What?!

Jaune: What the fuck?!

Salem: Cinder, are you trying to kill him or seduce him?! What the hell was that?!

Jaune: Oscar's still a child, Cinder!

Oscar: I'm just a kid! (Thinking) And, oh, life is a nightmare!.

Salem: Cinder, I'm all for torturing and murdering children, but I'm not an advocate for pedophilia!

Nora: WEE-OO! WEE-OO! THE CYBER POLICE ARE ON THEIR WAY!

#rwby #cinder fall #oscar pine #jaune arc #salem #blumation #theblueguy #nora valkyrie

[aspiringwarriorlibrarian]

I think it’s an incredible thing for Oz to do. He always talks about choices. Having the capacity to choose. Something he had long since given up on having himself. Yet Oscar shows him that despite how bleak things seem they can still fight, Oz can still fight. It’s incredibly heartwarming to see how much Oscar impacted Oz and how much Oz cares about him.

A lot of ppl tend to say that Oz is a malicious leech towards Oscar and that Oscar hates Oz but I think they are dead wrong. Ozpin cares and Oscar’s times being tortured by Salem made him realizes just how much he does. Oz didn’t want this, Oscar doesn’t either. Yet they care enough to fight, not each other but for each other.

Exactly. The fact is that Ozpin cannot be blamed for this because he doesn't have a choice in this process, he was made into this thing without his knowledge or consent. He can't unite humanity, he can't defeat Salem, he can't even save the people he unites with because of what he is, and he figured out long ago that it was less painful and heartbreaking to just give in to it. But if Oscar wants to fight this, even though it's so agonizing they wind up curled up on the floor, then they'll fight it together. And maybe, for the first time in a long time, he can admit to himself that he doesn't want this either.

#ozpin #oscar pine #ozcar #rwby spoilers #rwby vol 9 epilogue spoilers

[mangagirl2016]

I think it’s interesting the parallel shots we see done for rose garden and both involve each getting tortured in some way. Oscar is isolated from the others and tortured by Salem and hazel and ruby is isolated from the others and attacked by neo and later isolated again and attacked by illusions made by neo of people she knew. We get a downward view body shot of the two.

#rose garden #rwby rosegarden #rosegarden #rwby volume 9 #rwby #ruby rose x oscar pine #ruby rose rwby #oscar pine #rose garden parallels #parallels

[kitkatopinions]

The biggest instances of hypocrisy in RWBY mostly have to do with characters getting mad at Ozpin for something they themselves do (and sometimes they're really irrational about blaming Oz anyway) and it's funny that it feels like the RWBY writers just haven't even realized they're doing it.

Jaune: "How dare Oz involve Pyrrha in his war without telling her all the details, she's dead because of him and not because of any choice she made!" Also Jaune: "Yeah, let's try to recruit everyone in the world to the war with Salem via video message without telling them all the details and also I will kill Penny for the Maiden Powers because 'it's her choice.'"

The entirety of RWBYJNROQ: "How dare Ozpin keep secrets, give half truths, and not tell us everything!" Also the entirety of RWBYJNROQ: *Proceed to keep secrets, give half truths, and not tell everyone everything.*

Raven: "Ozpin keeps secrets, prioritizes what he wants, and also uses people for their powers." Also Raven: *Doesn't tell anyone what happened with Summer, barely does anything to help people and even works with Cinder and Salem out of selfishness and cowardice, and it's heavily implied that she took in and befriended the last spring maiden only to murder her for her power so Raven could have it herself plus essentially uses Vernal as a human shield while keeping her Maiden powers a secret.*

Hazel: "Ozpin's attempt to teach willing specialists how to fight Grimm resulted in my sister choosing to try to learn and then dying on the field of battle, therefore he's evil and monstrous and deserves death and torture and I'm going to blame him for her death. How dare he-" *checks notes* "Try to stop the Grimm from killing innocent people indiscriminately by asking for willing participants who don't get their hunter licenses until age twenty one to learn to fight them to defend said innocent people?" Also Hazel: *Literally kills tons of people and wants to kill a child and tortures a child on screen while working for the murderous woman actively attacking cities full of helpless innocent children who also partially controls the very monsters that killed his sister in the first place.*

Like, the show is entirely unconcerned with checking any of this hypocrisy either despite the fact that outside of Ruby and maybe Oscar who regretted keeping secrets (and Ruby regretted more than keeping secrets) Ozpin is the only one who ever seems apologetic or uncertain about the things he does. It's only ever Ozpin who is treated as bad for doing... anything that isn't one hundred percent perfect and flawless, no matter if his back is to a wall and no matter how uncertain or unhappy he seems in his choices. Then there's Raven and Hazel over here acting superior and totally sure of themselves and yet they're the ones who pretty much go unchallenged. Like I said, it's like they don't even realize they're doing it, like they wanted their 'morally gray mentor' story, forgot to actually include it in a convincing way, and then just do not actually give a damn about the morals and lessons involved so they write the rest of the story as if it doesn't matter at all. RWBY is like this in a lot of ways, where you have to actively pretend that the rest of the story didn't happen in order to enjoy moments that contradict it (whether morally or just through story beats.) But the Oz thing is just so frustrating because it's like.... Okay, so I'm not supposed to have any sympathy for the cursed abuse victim out here doing his best and acting heartbroken while in extremely bad lose-lose conditions, but I'm supposed to have all the sympathy in the world for the screaming murderer electrocuting teenage girls and trying to murder children while victim-blaming the guy he's trying to kill for all his own actions.... And the reason for why I'm supposed to be angry at Oz is because he was attempting to help the world in sometimes flawed ways with the weight of the world on his shoulders? But I'm supposed to have no problems at all with like, Jaune or Yang because they're trying to help the world in sometimes flawed ways?

Once again, RWBY as a show has no actual real morals to follow and zero consistency.

#rwde #pro ozpin

[littlemisssquiggles]

So miles did another cameo video about a week ago someone asked him what it would have been like if Oscar had gone to the ever after and Miles confirmed that if Oscar had been there with Ruby she wouldn't have gone through the conflict and trauma she was going through and volume nine if he had been there cuz Oscar would have been the one to notice it instantly unlike the others who didn't notice it till after she snapped at them

You can even see hints of it in the episode were they meet John again and they're at his house where Ruby sitting at the table and across from Ruby is an empty chair while Ruby sits there and look at Yang and Blake happily celebrating their new relationship Ruby sits there if so she's missing someone and that someone is Oscar I think

Hello anon-chan! Pardon the late answer to your inbox.

Do you mind linking me to this specific cameo you mentioned pretty please? Because I would honestly loved to listen to it.

Funnily enough, you’re the second person to bring up the theory that the empty seat across from Ruby at Jaune’s home in the Ever After during the scene before Jaune returns Crescent Rose to Ruby could’ve easily been filled by Oscar.

It makes perfect sense that Oscar would’ve been the one to notice Ruby’s depression if he were there since he has been shown to be weary of that in previous seasons such as the infamous dojo scene. Oscar noticing Ruby’s change in demenour is what initially prompted him to push her to admit her true feelings about everything that happened during the Fall of Beacon.

Not to mention that when Ruby was shown to be overwhelmed at the Cotta-Arc during the moment when Jaune exploded after JNR learned the truth about Oz and Salem, Oscar was the one to take notice of this and even did his best to help quell the situation.

Oscar has always been observant of Ruby’s feelings especially when she is at her lowest. It’s one of the reasons why I love their dynamic so much. Ruby has always been protective of Oscar since the moment he joined the team, looking out for him in her own way just as much as he looked out for her.

Oscar should’ve been there for Ruby in the Ever After just as how Ruby should’ve been the one to lead the charge to save him from Monstra instead of Jaune back in V8.

I absolutely hated the fact that Ruby was omitted from Oscar’s side of the story back then and this is one of the reasons why I didn’t enjoy that season.

The CRWBY showrunners spent the last few seasons continuously building up this shared sense of caring and protectiveness as the basis of the Rosegarden friendship and yet…there was no payoff?

They showed prior moments of Ruby protecting Oscar yet…she was completely absent during his most dire time of need---being a prisoner of Salem and brutally tortured by her and Hazel for hours. Ruby was not allowed to protect Oscar from that.

They showed prior moments of Oscar being a voice of wisdom to encourage Ruby to open up and be honest with herself and those around her yet…he was absent during her darkest emotional moment yet---her literal breaking point where she committed the Ever After equivalent of suicide.

You see the pattern?

Neither Ruby nor Oscar were present during each other’s worse moments.

They weren’t allowed to because the writers knew, canonically, these two would be each other’s true savior---their beacon in the darkness to get more metaphorical.

Because they needed the story to go a different way to get the ending that we actually got in V8 and V9, that’s how it had to go.

If Oscar has gone to the Ever After then Ruby would’ve never had her whole arc which…needed to happen. Although, some might argue that the whole point of Ruby’s journey in the Ever After was ultimately made pointless by her going from “no longer wanting to be Ruby Rose anymore” to “being Ruby Rose just as I am is enough. I’m Ruby-nough! I don’t need to change at all. I’m perfect just the way I am even with the flaws that I still possess that led me down this path in the first place”.

Sarcasm aside, I don’t dislike the fact that Ruby chose to be herself in the end. Being yourself and having yourself be enough is a good message. I just wished the showrunners had allowed this concept to cook more. While I’m aware they were pressed for time given the fact that no V10 was greenlit, nevertheless, I would’ve rather a twist where only Weiss, Blake, Yang and Jaune were able to return home while Ruby remained in the Ever After to complete her transformation.

We spent nearly an entire season building up to Ruby’s breakdown. It took 8 out of 10 episodes to have Ruby fall apart only to have her have her big revelation in the last episode. That makes the whole thing seem almost flat so I don't blame some fans for being disappointed with the conclusion to Ruby's Ever After story being concluded that way.

I dunno about you anon-chan but this just makes me disappointed that Oscar wasn’t present for the Ever After Arc because all cues prior to V9 hinted that he could’ve easily been added to this season and worked.

Oscar was the one who first introduced the audience to the fairytale of the Girl Who Fell Through the World.

Not to mention the whole theme of the Ever After being about embracing change---Oscar SHOULD’VE gone to the Ever After. Part of Oscar’s journey is about him coming to terms with the Merge with him either losing himself completely or becoming a new person entirely.

Seeing Oscar going through his own arc while trying to help Ruby with hers could've been great to see. But alas, that's not what we got.

I will give the showrunners this though---if Oscar had gone to the Ever After then we probably may not have gotten the clue that Ruby cares deeply for him.

It is very evident after V9 that Oscar's life is precious to Ruby. Shipping and romantic implications asides, you can't deny the fact that Oscar's wellbeing is important to Ruby.

Much like characters such as Penny and Pyrrha, Oscar is someone who Ruby doesn't want to lose.

Better yet, he is someone precious to Ruby that she doesn't wish to lose as a result of her failure.

Take a look at the deaths of Pyrhha and Penny. What do those deaths have in common?

Ruby failing to stop it from happening in the first place.

Ruby was present for Penny's first death but arrived too late to stop it from happening.

Ruby was present for Pyrhha's death but arrived too late to stop it from happening.

Ruby was present again for Penny's final death but got tossed into the Ever After before she could do anything to help stop it from happening.

Once again, Penny died and Ruby failed to stop it from happening. This is why the words of her illusion cut Ruby deeply during the Mad Tea Party fight.

"...Just like you were too late to save me at the Vytal Festival. I died in Atlas too, didn't I? Could you imagine what that's like? To be completely and utterly failed time and again by someone who meant the world to you..."

Similar to Penny, Ruby is someone who Oscar has been shown to care deeply for and Ruby, in turn, cares a lot for him. The evidence of that has been shown sprinkled throughout the seasons. There is no denying that these two smaller, more honest souls care very much for each other.

While there has yet to be any payoff to the development in their relationship as yet, one thing's for certain is that Oscar is a person of importance to Ruby.

He is someone she doesn't want to lose. He is someone she doesn't want to fail.

He is someone she can't stand to watch die because of her own inability to protect him.

Not again after she's failed others like him in the past.

Overall, I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, while it would've been great to see Oscar in the Ever After with Ruby (since he definitely would've prevented her breakdown), at the same time, the showrunners did still found a way to use his presence as part of the narrative to signify something about his connection to Ruby.

Oscar needed to be absent in order to Ruby to have her arc yet ironically, he was the reason for Ruby's breakdown in the first place. While Little's death was the final straw that drove Ruby over the edge, before that moment, it was actually the imagery of Oscar's death caused by HER HANDS that drove Ruby to her final breaking point.

While it would've been nice to see Oscar there with Ruby, in a way, he was still there with her---being used by Neo to indicate to the audience that Oscar is a person of dear importance to Ruby.

Moving forward, I expect the events of V9 to have some kind of impact on Ruby's overall relationship with Oscar. I want to believe the events of the Ever After would make Ruby more overprotective of Oscar; possibly hinting at much deeper feelings. That's how I see it.

~LMS (2023)

#squiggles answers: rwby #rwby volume 9 spoilers #ruby rose #oscar pine #oscar and ruby #rwby rosegarden #rwby theories

[rachetmath]

RWBY Villains

 Me: Hello RWBY villains how are you today?

HAWC: Hey.

Me: Great now let’s get down to business. Um, how did all of you fumble the bag so badly?

HAWC: Whoa!!!

Me: Like ya’ll weren’t even Anime or video game villains. Ya’ll were Disney-level villains.

Adam: Disney? Oh no, I should at least be on Vergil's level.

Me: Oh no. Sh-shut your ass up. You were one of my favorite characters. Like you were awesome at the beginning but you were completely terrible.

Adam: Hey my death wasn’t that bad.

Me: You served as a bridge to Bumblebee. Bro you barely had a role in volume six. You were barely a character.

Adam: Fine. I’ll bite. What was wrong with me?

Me: In volume three, you swore to Blake that you would take everything she ever loved. In volume five, you sent minions to take care of Blake's family.

Adam: Okay but I was at Mistral helping Cinder.

Me: Which is fine. Until Blake showed up and one-shot you. And you were willing to kill yourself along with your troops.

Adam: Oh.

Me: Then on the train, volume six, you had team JNPR, one of Blake’s friends and you didn’t try to off any of them.

Adam: I was on a train.

Me: Full of human civilians. One seemingly trained huntsman. And three rookies. Are you serious?

Adam: Um.

Me: Next, and this has been on my mind for the longest. How, on earth, did you manage to find Blake?

Adam: Uh.

Me: Like were you camping at some random station hoping Blake will see you? Did you somehow know where they were going? If so that means Oscar’s to blame because that must be how he broke back into Saph’s house.

Adam: Mm.

Me: Are you telling me that Blake’s ass cheeks are so big that you were able to track her down with just your ears? Seriously cause that’s impossible cause Harriet got better cheeks than her.

Adam: Aw man.

Watts: It ‘s okay young lad. You were just not as smart as I was.

Me: Brother your plan only  worked because everyone was stupid.

Watts: What?

Me: Man a drunk housewife proved you were alive and helped Weiss’s father win.

Watts: Minor.

Me: You had Tyrian kill a bunch of people. Only to frame Penny but guess what she had a whole recording of the events. Literally, your plan wouldn’t have worked if any of the characters have asked, “Why is Tyrian here?”

Watts: Well I hacked into Penny so that way she could self-destruct if she opens the vault.

Me:

Me: Really? Oh, that’s great. Let’s give him a hand everybody He did hack into Penny.  *stops clapping*.Too bad he fumbled on that too.

Watts: What? Impossible.

Me: Oh, so instead of you reprogramming her to simply kill herself when she opens the vault. You could have reprogrammed her to follow your every command or better yet Salem’s making her a soulless killing machine. Not only would you’ve had a powerful android but another maiden, who will actually follow your orders. Basically making Cinder useless.

Watts: Oh my god.

Me: And you died along with Ironwood. Cinder didn’t even bother to remember you. Hell, she may have planned that shit.  In fact, she took credit for all of your hard work. You died like an idiot!

Watts: No. NOOOOOO! I wasted my life.

Me: *sigh* Now for you.

Hazel: Wait a minute. I am supposed to be a redeemed man.

Me: Hazel, you killed people. You served Salem after figuring out she’s immortal. In fact, you had Ironwood scared of you. You had Oscar and Ozpin right in front of you.

Hazel: Your point..

Me: Hazel, I’m not going to lie. I would’ve straight up committed.

Hazel: What? No.

Me: Okay fine, but why did take Oscar, who has no idea how you feel at all because he hasn’t lost a damn thing, to change your mind?

Hazel: He told me the truth.

Me: You mean the same truth you tortured him for.

Hazel: Um.

Me: Then when he told you that you snapped at him afterward for it.

Hazel: Oh.

Me: Then you had to release him because you didn’t believe him. When you could’ve just called Jinn’s name and seen if she appears before you then made a decision.

Hazel: Oh. But I did exactly like my sister would have done. I fought the good fight.

Me: Hazel she wasn’t even a huntress she was still a student. Matter of fact why should I care about what your sister would’ve done if I had never seen her?

Hazel: Um.

Me: *sigh* (This is why I think Jaune should’ve fought Hazel.)

Roman: Okay so what about us?

Me: Roman you good. You had three good volumes. You were decent.

Roman: Alright.

Ironwood: And-

Me: Ironwood you’re not a villain, you’re a broken man. In fact, you were following your heart but not your mind.

Ironwood. O. Thank you.

Cat: Well certainly I don’t need to be lectured then. I’ve have great.

Me: oh hell no. You, dirty, down-bad feline pedophile. 

Cat: Hey.

Me: Dude. What the hell were you thinking?  Were high on cat nip or something?

Cat: What was wrong with me trying to get to Remnant?

Me: Okay let start with the fact that you tried to posses Ruby first. Then fully tooken control of Neo. Yet Jaune who was in Ever After for years, and was already going through a mental breakdown. Which you called out by the way. Never crossed your mind.

Cat: uh.

Me: Cat think about it. Neo is their enemy. Jaune is their friend. Not only that, unlike Neo, Jaune, after many years still wanted to go home. You couldn't have used that against him or used his friends against him to weaken him. So you can take his body and leave.

Cat: Oh. 

Me: Bro, you were going up against team RWBY, the story's main characters. They weren't even holding back and you were still giving them work. But if you had Jaune’s body wouldn't they have held back just a little bit to give you an edge?

Cat: Oh my god.

Me: Plus Jaune’s semblance amplifies the user's abilities. 

Cat: I may would’ve been able to kill them.

Me: So you just proved Jaune is stronger than Ruby. Both physically and mentally. Good job. But you want to know what made all that so pointless. What made you the worst villain of all time than Salem? Bro, you could have actually achieved your goal.

Cat: Yes  If it wasn't for Alyx.

Me: No you mother pussy fucker. You could've just gone back with Lewis.

Cat: *shocked after a realization*

Me: Bro, Lewis was already planning to leave Ever After. You couldn't take the time to ask, "Hey Lewis. Since your sister is staying in Ever After, forever possibly, can I go with you to Remnant instead?" Alyx would have basically kept her promise to you. But no you wanted Alyx to leave. And when she refused you killed her. Great job, you have proven to be a pedophile psychopath.

Cat:

Me: Okay so hope all of you realize how much of a disappointment you all have been. And how replaceable you are. Especially you two. Watts and Hazel.

Watts: Who can possibly replace me?

Me: Pietro for starters. He made Penny. And after getting screwed over by the heroes. I’ll say he’ll want some payback. But if I were to go with someone better than I say…  Dr. Merlot.

Watts:.... 

Me: He had his own island. His own company. He seems to be more interested in the Grimm than human beings. And Salem controls the Grimm. So imagine, him teaming up with Salem to revolutionize the Grimm research and make the Grimm into a more deadly and effective.  I mean he’s done it before. 

Watts: Fair point.

Hazel: And me?

Me: Hazel, Junior can make a better villain than you. Anyone can be better than you. But I might as well say  Miss Malachite needs to make a return. Junior really just needs better help and him and Malachite combine their efforts they can almost run a business and a city. Not only that they have spies everywhere so information ain’t so hard to find.

Hazel: Dang.

#rwby #ruby rose #jaune arc #rwby curious cat #hazel rainart #arthur watts #rwby watts #adam taurus #rwby junior #miss malachite #Oscar Pine #roman torchwick #james ironwood

[itsclydebitches]

Since Ruby took like, ten second of self-doubt and some major (but overall shor) torture before just committing suicide, I can't help but think she must have had these feelings for years, buried deep down. It's eitehr that or the Ever After massively amplifies feelings. Or the writers are just hacks who cannot hack it. Thoughts?

I'm 95% "The writers don't know how to tackle a subject this sensitive and gave us such an extreme reaction for the drama" and 5% "There's a little evidence to suggest that this has been plaguing Ruby for at least a couple of days, but that still requires the audience to basically headcanon a conflict that never truly existed on screen." I say there's a little because Ruby was obviously stressed during Volume 8 too (which, again, only covered about 48 hours), however, I don't think that serves our Volume 9 arc well because:

Ruby is concerned with totally different stuff now. In Volume 8 she was upset over the confirmation that Salem knew Summer and the theory that she killed her as a result of her grimm experiments. Ruby is also frustrated that they rejected Ironwood's plan, but for two-ish days no one was able to come up with something better: "Then nothing has changed! We’re in the exact same spot we were yesterday. Arguing what to do while the Kingdom waits to die." While certainly connected to the overall repetition of Ruby throwing herself into situations that she then can't easily resolve, it's notable that she's not upset that she hasn't come up with a solution, but that the group hasn't. This is not presented as Ruby buckling under leadership because, frankly, no one is expecting her to lead. She chooses to make choices like starting the Ace Ops fight, but beyond that she's looking to others to problem solve, as Jaune, Oscar, and Ozpin do by Volume's end. So Volume 8 gives us "I'm crumbling under the knowledge that Salem killed my mom and I'm annoyed that we, as a group, haven't solved this horrific, time-sensitive problem." Then Volume 9 gives us, "I'm not thinking at all about Mom - look at me give up a keepsake of hers without a second thought! - and I'm crumbling under this sudden belief that everyone has always demanded that I solve all our problems." It's hard to say this has been building for a long time when what Ruby is stressed about keeps changing from Volume to Volume, even episode to episode. We start Volume 9 with her faltering due to Penny's death, but her breakdown comes about due to leadership. It's all too muddled to say this has been a years long problem in the making.

Much more simply, my second issue is that Ruby (like many other characters) doesn't keep consistent in her emotions either. Not just about what she's upset over, but her actually being upset. Volume 8 presented her mini-breakdown as something Ruby overcame - she gets upset on the staircase, but then they do come up with a plan and save "all" of the Kingdom, acting confident in their execution of this rescue - and though there's a major setback in regards to them falling/losing the Relics, Ruby only takes a second to cry about that then she becomes a part of Volume 9's early gags. Yes, her depression increases as the Volume goes on, getting more extreme the closer we get to her drinking that tea, but considering how much she's fluctuated and that her time in the Ever After has only been a day or so... that's too much too fast to justify her suddenly attempting suicide. All told, the content with ANY evidence from Ruby's depression covers about 4 days, maximum.

So yeah, I think RT massively dropped the ball on this one, though as always this is an easy situation for fans to project on. Anyone happy with RWBY's writing can easily headcanon that yeah, she's been feeling these emotions for an age - she must have because otherwise the suicide attempt doesn't make sense and RT wouldn't write something that doesn't make sense. See how that logic works? - and every moment that's even somewhat relavent can be re-read as a supposed buildup, regardless of what Ruby was upset about or whether she was presented as bouncing back almost immediately.

Plus, the nature of mental health means that ANY characterization technically fits. Ruby is bubbly all the time? Well, people with depression learn to hide it and overcompensate. Ruby appears to immediately bounce back? Again, she's playing a part. She was upset about thing A and then that changed to thing B and now we're on thing J? Don't you understand how all of this compounds and it's the sheer, overwhelming nature of everything she's been through that resulted in this? Because we understand that in real life depression is a complicated, often silent beast, people are tempted to map that onto the story, thereby justifying any version of the arc that we end up with. There's technically no wrong way to write it because there's no "right" way to be depressed. My problem is that this isn't real life. It's a story and we have expectations for how stories will differ from reality in order to serve their function as compelling entertainment. I don't want to go, "Oh, well Ruby was obviously grappling with depression this whole time and it was just hidden from us because that's one realistic means of depicting it. How many times has someone said, 'I had no idea' after learning about a suicide attempt?" But Ruby is our protagonist, the perspective through which we experience the entirety of the show, so keeping this hidden from the audience doesn't do anything except make it come across as a badly written, arguably insensitive arc. This is not real life. Ruby is not a real person with real feelings she may consciously or unconsciously be keeping from others. Ruby is a fiction whose purpose is to convey something to us, the audience, which means that outside of deliberate twists, a story that goes, "This was always occurring, you just never got to see it on screen" is rarely going to have that come across well.

#rwde #rwby #mymetas #suicide tw

[dragynkeep]

hazel talking to ozpin, after beating and torturing oscar and hunting down and murdering actually every hunters in mistral: Salem can't be stopped. She's a force of nature. I've seen it first hand. But you, you send children to their deaths for a cause that you know has no victory, no end.

bruh their deaths was just hazel. That wasnt salem, Tyrian and Hazel murdered a kingdom's worth of hunters. You just know that hazel went to remnant heaven just so that gretchen can beat the ever loving shit out of him for a decade before whooping his ass all the way to hell. jesus fuck, how are yang and winter the worst older sibling contenders when hazel "joined my sister's murderer to help kill in the name of my sister" mcfucking child-beating idiot is right here.

Hazel's character is one of the stupidest and most pointless additions to the cast, because what does he even bring? A commentary on the Huntsman Industry? Another side of Ozpin as a character? How grief and lack of help can push even the strongest men to ruin?

No, he's just there to be a hypocrite, never get called out on it, and then dies in the stupidest redemption arcs in the show.

#rwby #rwde #hazel rainart #answered #luke.txt

[bestworstcase]

I think it'll be interesting when RWBYJ tells everyone about the ever after, specifically Oscar/Ozpin. I think that'll be a hell of a slap in the face to those two. Imo it's pretty clear that Oz doesn't like the Brothers (his lie for his curse literally puts them in the WORST light to anyone who hears it), but isn't exactly open about it nor does he think on it much. But hearing that the 'gods' are essentially just people who got kicked out of their home would make him. Well I hesitate to say that he'd flip the fuck out, but I definitely think he wouldn't be happy at ALL. I'm sure he'd be furious while simultaneously having an existential crisis.

Frankly, Oz is just. An interesting character when it comes to his thoughts on the Brothers. He went from more or less listening to Light without question (but immediately started questioning when Salem talked to him- "Unsure of where his loyalties still lay-" he trusts Salems words but is confused about his stance on Light, perhaps afraid of questioning him), to putting them in a bad light repeatedly and more or less giving up on his task (there's far far easier ways to unite the world i.e. war- why would he deliberately make it hard on himself? He's far from stupid. He still foes his best to foster peace because why wouldn't he?). And, now, he's actively fighting his curse, and is doing so the second he got an ounce of hope.

I think why he hasn't really thought of fighting the Gods is bc a) he's still scared of them (and it makes sense, I'd be scared too) and b) he never knew that they, well, were just people. I think he'd need some convincing, but I really think he'd be happy to try his hand at giving Light a piece of his mind lol. Something tells me Oz has millennia of bottled up anger- something will eventually be the straw that broke the camels back, as even the most resilient of people can break.

Though I think the biggest issue would be the idea of teaming up with Salem. He's bitter and terrified of her, and although we don't know exactly what's happened between them since their first fight (beyond Oz spending several lives as an alcoholic, then wandering Remnant being reminded of Salem (not necessarily bc he thought every Grimm attack was her, Grimm just remind him of her)), it's entirely possible Salem has also done... something to hurt him. No one's that bitter or terrified of someone for absolutely no reason, but whatever the reason is, that'll definitely be an obstacle between him being allied with her against the Gods. Plus she also, yknow, tortured him and allowed Hazel to torture him (which Oscar took most of it, but they're in the same body).

I think that interaction would be... interesting. Especially since I really don't think Oz even is 'Ozma' anymore. Ozma is the foundations yes, but the merge changes you fundamentally. He has changed his name every lifetime (if Oz doesn't accidentally answer to the name Oscar I'll eat my left shoe), but how much of him really is Ozma anymore? Ship of theseus and all that. If he, by all accounts, isn't 'Ozma' anymore and Salem isn't aware of this, I think it'd be an interesting revelation for her. There's similarities between Oz and how he used to be, but I feel like 'Ozma' is functionally a deadname for him (Oz trans/DID allegory? /j). Especially since I think Ozma is just- not who he is anymore. He's tried living up to the name, but he can't and he knows it (the words his illusion in v9 says speaks a lot to his mental state and his opinion of himself).

God speaking of his illusion on v9, I think it's incredibly clear that what each illusion says pertains to that character in some way. And it says so so much about Ozpin and how he sees himself. It's ironic how the God of Light, associated with creation, made him, yet he thinks that all he does is destroy. He's scarily good at splitting people apart just accidentally (i.e. v6, Summer basically throwing him under the bus thus STRQ broke apart and blamed him, etc) too. Yet Salem, immortal via Lights curse, made herself through Grimm and is very good at rallying people. Dunno, fun thought there (it's why swap aus are so damn tasty with these two).

Sorry for the long ask, I just wanted to ramble in your inbox for a bit. I have many thoughts about Oz.

not. to be snarky but

To live free or die, it’s all the same The enemy was right, there’s no reclaiming In waves of shame We’re desperate to make amends But through a simple soul we lie complacent  Love brings us dreams But grief makes the heart burst at the seams  As light fills my eyes I’ll picture me beside her And pray that I’ll inspire  I promise I’ll be here until the end I promise I’ll be here until… Our story has been told Til our bodies break down every door Til we find what we’ve been looking for

terrified she’ll never forgive him and terrified of what will happen if she confronts the gods again, yes. but terrified of her?

the enemy was right. we’re desperate to make amends. grief makes the heart burst at the seams. i’ll picture me beside her. ozma isn’t terrified of salem; he is, explicitly, ashamed of himself and desperate to make amends and longing for her.

listen. you don’t have to go salem did dot dot dot something to hurt him. we KNOW exactly what she did; rejected the mandate, fought him, burned him alive. they blew up their home and killed their own kids. is this insufficiently traumatizing to explain him.

similarly i do not have to go ozma did dot dot dot something to salem: we know exactly what he did. we know why she’s furious and bitter and still hurting. it is not ambiguous.

he’s spent the intervening centuries hiding inside a narrative where salem is the Great Evil he must defeat because the guilt he feels for deceiving and manipulating her and the grief for everything he sacrificed is so unbearable that he can’t touch it except through layers and layers of distortion. but it’s bleeding through the cracks everywhere. the infinite man tried to be a hero and is a fool who may not be worthy of forgiveness, ozpin suggests. look far enough ahead from the ending of the girl in the tower, and you’ll find the hero who saved her turned out to be a villain.

he hates salem. (he deserves her hatred.) this is the wrenching internal war he fights with himself day after day and life after life; the only way he can live with himself enough to function is by hating her, but the hatred is a fiction, a lie, to protect him from his fear. the truth is that he neither hates her nor deserves her hatred.

i am being intentional about calling him ozma, by the way. i am also intentional about when i call him ozpin or oz. i do not think ozma is a deadname. i don’t think ozma is an ideal he is trying and failing to live up to. he doesn’t identify himself as ozpin; he says “the professor ozpin you all met was not my first form.” he dons these other identities as a mask—i am the combination of countless men who have spent their lives trying to protect the people of remnant—because he hates himself. ozma is who he’s running away from because he doesn’t think ozma has ever been enough.

that is why. salem distinguishes between ozpin and ozma the way that she does. and why she is able to differentiate between oscar and ozma even when oscar is mimicking ozpin, because ozpin is the latest in a long series of masks that ozma wears.

(ozpin is tippetarius enforcing his own exile, and thus he became the wizard. ozma is the true self imprisoned by the curse. he’s… named ozma for a reason.)

”what if you could be anyone?” <- the blacksmith does not ask ruby this question because ruby needs to stop being herself in order to be happy. she offers ruby a metaphorical representation of ozma’s curse—what if you could be anyone, slip into a like-minded soul and become that person—in order to guide ruby to the realization that only her true self is the right fit. this is what i like to call blunt force foreshadowing.

ozma is trying to be a thousand different heroes and salem has only ever wanted ozma. ozma then is not the same person as ozma now, but ozma is ozma is ozma. the ship of theseus is the ship of theseus, then as now. on those who enter the same rivers, ever different waters flow. read heraclitus.

the thing is. yeah. he’s going to snap like a brittle twig when he learns the truth about the gods… because he already knows salem is right, deep down. the enemy is right. it bleeds through even into the lost fable, which is narrated in his voice. jinn’s telling—his telling—obfuscates and twists away from salem’s interiority, her feelings, her motives except for the moment of her realization about the brothers: perhaps the gods were not as powerful as they seemed; she had lied to them, turned them against each other; they were fallible.

the enemy is right. he knows she’s right.

hearing what the kids learned in the ever after is going to shatter the cognitive dissonance preventing him from acting on that knowledge. it’s going to surface ‘until the end’ but now joined to the hope he has—since the end of v8—that he can make amends for his cowardice and lies.

ozma apologizing to the kids and asking for a second chance to earn their trust was, uh, a practice run for ozma apologizing to salem and asking for a second chance. the fallout of the lost fable (“there was so much you hadn’t told us! how could you think that was okay!” and “i gave my life to you because you gave me a place in this world; i thought i was finally doing some good!”) is a reflection of salem’s distress. the narrative is on her side. because. he lied to manipulate her and grievously betrayed her trust. in exactly the same way he did to the kids.

#like until the end is literally his pining love letter to salem. he wants to be on the same side again so badly #the only thing stopping him is he’s convinced himself it’s impossible because how could she ever forgive him. how could he ever be worthy #meanwhile she’s enraged because she would have given him anything else but what he asked her to do #and he burned it all to the ground and salted the earth rather than give her the one thing she asked in return #which was to not serve the god who tortured her for millions of years! #he was worth everything to her and to him she was worthless. #together in all things even this.

[iamafanofcartoons]

Defending RWBY’s Writing: Why Ironwood was never a victim of Character Assassination, he was meant to become the antagonist from the beginning.

We’ve covered Emerald Sustrai’s writing. We’ve covered parts of Yang Xiao Long’s writing. Today we cover Ironwood and how he was always going to be an antagonist.

First? Important to note: Ironwood doesn’t need to be rotten to the core to have been a villain and antagonist, bad people can do nice things and good people can do bad things.

Second:  People woobify villains all the time, FNDM loves to woobify "Robodaddy" because they either think he's handsome or anything a man does wrong is justified compared to a woman.

With that being said, let’s begin.

If critics get to list good things Ironwood has done to try and argue he's not a villain, let us list every illegal and immoral thing James Ironwood has ever done:

Neglected over half the population of his kingdom, including neglecting their defenses, when defense is his literal job. Dereliction of Duty.

Went behind Ozpin’s back to get the council to sack Ozpin from his job

Went behind everyone’s back to have the Vytal Festival be a weapons testing project for Penny

Speaking of Penny? Repeatedly gate-kept her from having friends

Regularly abused his two council seats while refusing to respect any and all checks and balances

Treated the people of mantle who he abandoned to grimm with barely any support as “a few city blocks” while bleeding them dry of any resources that he could have used his own military or the SDC to provide.

Had Penny protect the entire population of Mantle by herself while using Atlesian drones to enforce fear upon the civilians

Refused to take any criticism when bringing an army to Vale less than 80 years after Atlas tried to conquer the world

Pressuring young adults to sign up for the military.

Bringing an army inside another Kingdom, which would legally qualify as an occupation if the Council hadn't given him permission a week later.

Pulling Atlesian forces out of allied nations and isolating themselves from the rest of the world right at the beginning of the war against Salem, when Atlas would be needed most.

Cutting off Dust supplies to other nations at a time of worldwide insecurity.

Appointing Caroline Cordovin to any position of authority.

Illegally arresting Qrow for "posession of weapon without a license" despite Qrow having a fucking license and saying so.

Actually, that bullshit law in it's entirety, given that they're worse than useless at stopping Grimm breaches in Mantle

Having camera drones wander the streets, jesus fuck

Diverting supplies from Mantle's already neglected defenses for the Amity Project. Illegally, I may add. That's embezzlement.

Unlawful detention of Fria.

Abandoning an entire city to die to Grimm. A city he's in charge of. Dereliction of Duty.

Putting out an arrest warrant for JNR, Oscar, and Qrow, who hadn't even done anything at that moment.

Attempted murder of a fucking teenager.

Assassination of Councilman Sleet.

Pretty sure what he did to Penny qualifies as a form of torture and coercion.

Actively tortured Watts.

Attacked civilian rescue ships in order to prevent them from evacuating civilians from a battlefield. That one's literally a War Crime.

Attempted Genocide.

Attempted Use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction. On Civilians. His own citizens.

Murder of Jacques Schnee. No matter how much of an awful man he was, that was murder.

Attempted murder of Winter Schnee.

And in the end, he didn't even try to attack Salem or Cinder. Fucking hell, Lionheart at least tried in the end. But Leo was about self-preservation, Ironwood was a hero complex...he realized he failed...so he gave up.

It's repeatedly said that Atlas heavily encourages it's Huntsmen and Huntresses to join the Atlesian Military upon graduation. Ironwood, being head of both the Academy and the Military, obviously plays a role in that.

James would have known for years about Jacques' abuse of his family...yet he did NOTHING. Neurotic rich kids raised to be perfectionists and live in fear of authority? Star pupils in the making! And plus Jacques was the business partner who, with no morals/ethics, provided the Atlesian Military with all the dust and tech they needed. “For the greater good” an apologist might say.

Lionheart at least tried (and one could argue succeeded) to  minimize damage (intentionally or not) to the Civilian population and the academy staff and the students.  Leo also admitted he was wrong and was at least honest to himself...unlike Raven.

...so are we done here? Yes, he was a decent person once, corrupted by arrogance and exceptionalism and paranoia and his dismissal of those beneath him. His turn to villainy was a tragedy years in the making, but it was a tragedy and it did happen.

If you can't see that, you need to take a long hard look at yourself and your own beliefs.

Credit goes to

https://lore-of-the-silvereyes-rwby.tumblr.com/post/636423383105568768/the-hero-that-was-never-meant-to-be

and

https://www.tumblr.com/luimnigh/667670105736495104/i-still-dont-get-how-ironwood-is-a-villain-he

https://www.tumblr.com/lore-of-the-silvereyes-rwby/669591782153240576/i-still-dont-get-how-ironwood-is-a-villain-he

In short, bad people are not sinkholes of evil, they’re people; and they’re capable of doing terrible things and very kind things at the same time...  Many RWBY fans don't know how to process villains who aren't mustache twirling monsters.

#rwby #rwby character analysis #james ironwood #ironwood #general ironwood #rwby discussion #rwby meta