#since there is much more to her character than just being the source of comedy which a lot of ppl tend to gloss over

[ednaeflowers]

edna's love language is quality time. she's spent 1000+ years by herself on r.ayfalke waiting for e.izen to come home—she will never, ever admit to it, but she's definitely felt lonely before through those 1000+ years, so quality time would definitely help bring her closer to someone. she will still, of course, tease whoever she is with: because of how she's like, the more she teases you, the more fond of you she is. she isn't the type who talks about how she actually feels, especially if it's sentimental or personal, so it's very subtle in how much she enjoys someone's company. she opens up slowly, but once you gain her trust, she trusts you.

it reassures her to know that she still has people around her. it'll make her feel more comfortable knowing that there is still at least another person she can be around since she literally lost the only person she could truly rely on—so, it makes sense that she doesn't want to lose more people. she is very "loud" about how she teases people, but very "quiet" in how she shows what's actually on her mind. to know what she is feeling, it's all in her actions.

#''love language'' seems a bit misleading but i rlly think it kinda sums it up tbh #i feel like i will never be able to ship here so this isn't exactly a ''shippy'' hc lol #tho i think it can apply to any of her relationships tbh #i think this could also affect how much she trusts someone too #and over time the zesty crew BECOME trusted friends to her ( tho it's canon that she and l.ailah are already friends when zesty begins ) #i just want to know what's on her mind ! she is like a cat i must study in order for her to like me #since there is much more to her character than just being the source of comedy which a lot of ppl tend to gloss over #altho i will acknowledge there are times she's just being a bully to be a bully 💀 #still love her very much tho -- i just love her on an abnormal amount 💛💛🥺 #i was talking to rinni earlier about edna and successfully converting her to support best earth siblings #and then my brain just started to work more gears i guess LOL ... #anyway i wrote this up while thinking about k.ratos and edna THANKS RINNI 😩 didn't know how much i needed them until today 😩 #... i think too much about edna so i will stop talking here and go to bed ...... 🙈🙈🙈 #°˖✧❀ ❛ memories. ┊ headcanons. ❀✧˖° #°˖✧❀ ❛ out of offerings. ┊ ooc. ❀✧˖°

[princesssarisa]

I've been thinking of the idea that Jane Austen might have been partly inspired to create Elizabeth and Darcy in Pride and Prejudice by Beatrice and Benedick in Much Ado About Nothing.

@anghraine has posted repeatedly about how P&P can almost be read as a then-modernized retelling of Much Ado, like Clueless is to Emma. Not only because of the Beatrice and Benedick/Elizabeth and Darcy parallels, but other details and character parallels too.

If Austen really was inspired by Shakespeare in this case, then I think she deserves praise for one thing that isn't often mentioned: that in writing her Beatrice and Benedick-like couple, she also wrote counterparts of Hero and Claudio, but she handled them in a way that's much less... divisive (to put it nicely) than the always-difficult Hero/Claudio storyline. Namely by dividing Hero and Claudio's role in the plot between two couples: Jane/Bingley and Lydia/Wickham.

The parallel between Jane and Hero is more obvious, since Jane is Elizabeth's sweet, innocent, most beloved family member just like Hero is to Beatrice, and since like Hero, she temporarily loses the man she loves because he's led to misunderstand her, which makes Elizabeth, like Beatrice, beside herself with rage. (If she could, Elizabeth probably would eat Darcy's heart in the marketplace after she learns he convinced Bingley to leave.) But instead of being melodramatically tricked into thinking Jane is sleeping with another man, Bingley is only led to think she likes him as a casual acquaintance but no more, and instead of taking her to the altar only to publicly shame and reject her (which would be a ridiculous thing to do for the mere "crime" of not feeling romantic love), he just quietly leaves the neighborhood without proposing or confessing his love to her, and without realizing the pain it causes her. This makes it much easier to root for Bingley to reunite with Jane and finally marry her than it is to feel the same way about Claudio.

But of course Hero's public shaming does more than break her heart: it also threatens to ruin her reputation forever, and her family's too. Austen also places her heroine's family in this type of danger, and just like Shakespeare did with Benedick, she has Darcy's efforts to set things right be the final stroke that brings the two formerly-battling love interests together as a couple. But thankfully, instead of tainting Jane and Bingley's sweet little romance by having them be the source of the near-disgrace, she has Lydia run off with Wickham. Effectively, her solution is "What if Beatrice and Hero had another young female relative, and instead of tricking Claudio, Don John straight-up seduced the third girl and that was the cause of the family's shame?" And instead of challenging Wickham to a duel, a la Benedick with Claudio, Darcy simply pays him off to marry Lydia: a choice that's telling about the difference in time, place, and genre between Austen's realistic, satirical portrayal of Georgian England and Shakespeare's portrayal of Renaissance Italy. (Austen furthers this point when Mrs. Bennet convinces herself that Mr. Bennet will duel with Wickham over Lydia's honor and panics at the thought, only to seem disappointed when he doesn't.)

I don't know if Austen consciously drew inspiration from Much Ado when she wrote Pride and Prejudice or not, but if she did, she made some clever character changes that suit the differences between a slice-of-life Georgian novel and a Shakespearean stage comedy.

#pride and prejudice #much ado about nothing #jane austen #william shakespeare #elizabeth bennet #beatrice #fitzwilliam darcy #benedick #jane bennet #lydia bennet #hero #charles bingley #george wickham #claudio #don john #comparison

[dontbotherwiththepronunciation]

I really wish we could talk about Jeyne bullying Arya without people going completely feral, because as someone who was bullied (tragicomically involving the nickname "horseface" and even neighing when I walked by), and who can't even watch high school comedies like mean girls without wanting to die, I feel like it's so reductive to deny any possibility of conflict between the Arya-Jeyne-Sansa dynamic that is more than "mean girls vs pretty-but-doesn't-know-it-yet-girl situation" or "violent paranoid schizophrenic with a persecution complex feels victimised by girls who actually do their schoolwork" while still acknowledging Jeyne as a bully and Arya as a victim.

Jeyne is such a weird character to me, because I never feel this attached to the archetype she embodies.

And still, her dynamic with the two Stark sisters is interesting and the confusion in fandom is COMPLETELY fascinating and borderline triggering to witness, because it reminds me a lot to how a class of high schoolers reacts to *gasps, looks around to see no one is listening and whispers* bullying *lightning and thunder strike on the background to signify the gravity of such a word*.

Person A: What? What are you talking about?! She is exaggerating everything! Sansa never called her that! It was only Jeyne and I bet she only did it once! Person B: Oh, no it was just Jeyne who did it. Sansa told her to stop, but she just kept at it because she is less educated. Person C: No, Jeyne was actually just doing it to impress Sansa. Sansa is the real villain here. DontbotherwiththepronunciationIn2013: I don't think "bullying" is the right term. It's not that bad, Arya should get over it. It was just hurtful teasing.

Now I realise that "hurtful teasing" is in fact bullying.

So, if going by canon:

I think Jeyne came up with the name "Horseface".

I think Jeyne used to neigh at Arya when she was passing.

I think Sansa probably used that name at some point in her life or maybe multiple times.

I think that silence bestows. I think inaction can be encouraging more action. I think passiveness can be as harming as aggressiveness.

I do NOT however think that neither Jeyne nor Sansa are inherently despicable evil people for bullying Arya. I think they are still children. I think, like in most situations involving bullying and children, it's the adults who are at fault for not putting a stop to it, and sometimes even encouraging it.

Before starting to rant, I want to say:

I don't consider myself an expert on any of these characters!!!!!

So if I'm saying something disproportionately wrong in the following, I am open to being corrected.

With that said, I think this is a network of issues, most of them involving socioeconomic classes and period-compliant misogyny. I think it might look like this:

I know that focussing on this is a little pointless because the three main actors involved in this have been violently removed from the situation, (and most of the remaining cast is dead) but at the same time their possible future reunion will be even more violent and they probably won't even have time to cope.

And I can't sleep and I feel horrible and I already drew that dumb mind-map on my phone.

So, I'm starting with the least tangled component in this thing.

Ⅰ. The passive perpetrator, Blind Beth Cassel

To her sister and sister's friends and all the rest, she had just been Arya Horseface. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

I have loved the "Blind Beth" concept since I first read it.

It's so interesting to me how the most Beth interested part of fandom is the Theon corner, yet in the entire Arya-Sansa narrative she barely appears and rarely in meta. The closest I've come to find analysis on Beth & Sansa was in this gorgeous collage highlighting them as victims of violence from different sources in ACOK, but asides from that, there isn't much there. And at least with Sansa I can understand it. Sansa doesn't think of Beth once in the entire books. Arya on the other hand names one of her many identities after Beth and I think the characteristic chosen to describe that persona was a very smart and painful reminder from GRRM.

Arya thinks of Beth Cassel in two occasions. Once in AGOT, when we first meet them,

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear. "What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. "Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm." Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. - Arya I, AGOT

AND once in Braavos, when she is thinking of her life a Winterfell,

"Beth." She had known a Beth once, back at Winterfell when she was Arya Stark. Maybe that was why she'd picked the name. Or maybe it was just because it went so well with blind. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

Our first assumption as readers to the name "Beth" going so well with "blind" is because it is an alliteration. Who doesn't love alliterations? Tell me you don't love Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with all it's stylistic devices! They are lovely. And perhaps "Blind Beth" is only one of GRRM's alliterations acknowledged by a character.

Or perhaps "Blind" and "Beth" also go so well with each other, because apparently, and basing this from Arya's POV (the only one involving Sansa, Jeyne & Beth all together), Beth is a passive perpetrator. The typical class mate who pretends not to see the bullying and the way it affects the victim. The one who is decent or even kind when alone, but alienating when they are accompanied by a group.

I have seen certain takes claiming that Arya's POV in AGOT isn't a reliable source when involving the dynamic between her and the other girls in Winterfell.

That is possible, but she is our only source. As said, Sansa doesn't ever think of Beth, so if I want to examine her it has to be through Arya's eyes.

I would like to take the scene in AGOT once again and look at it more closely this time.

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear.

The object composition is so carefully placed that I find it difficult to believe it is not supposed to have a meaning. Jeyne whispers into Sansa's ear, an image I often associate with a political advisor plotting or scheming with the ruler they serve (which she will remind me of again in future AGOT chapters). Beth has a lower position in the hierarchy She is sitting at Sansa's feet, completely enthralled to whatever it is Sansa says. She probably seeks her approval.

(There is this very sweet art depicting the image of Sansa, Beth and Jeyne and even if I kind of feel guilty for reading the scene as them alienating another girl and still enjoying the art, I still want to share it because it's very cute.)

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered.

Jeyne's reaction is alienating. She giggles and denies Arya the knowledge behind that sudden laughter. It always reminded me a little of how Theon's smiles are often described contemptuously, probably because people tend to think he is actually laughing/smiling at them. They think he is mocking them. I don't think this is something completely involuntarily. I think Jeyne knows that giggling when Arya is asking to be integrated to the group is painful to her. Sansa is described to look "abashed" which I take as uncomfortable. I thinks she is aware this is mean spirited. She still doesn't do anything, but she is at least "abashed". Beth seems to follow this reaction but her description is only physical, not necessarily tied to an explicit emotion. Still, they collectively refuse to include Arya into the conversation.

"Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm."

Arya has to insist to be accepted as part of the group. It is not Sansa who acts as the typical "Queen Bee" and grants her that privilege, but Jeyne. Jeyne is the one who speaks in a slightly haughty manner. Only after getting Jeyne's implicit permission does Beth make a comment. She is not described with any type of rancour by Arya.

Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words.

This is an interesting passage to me, but not because of Beth as a passive perpetrator, but because this is the first time I can think of where we are confronted with another monster that will play a role in here, the green-eyed beast;

Ⅱ. Envy

Not it's more mild mannered cousin jealousy that gets spoken of more in fandom, but envy!

Jealousy is usually seen as a less malevolent feeling, but the term is often used when actually referring to envy, so I will clarify that jealousy could be defined as a feeling of defensiveness and protectiveness over what you think to be yours and feel threatened or fearful of possibly losing it.

Envy is not protective or defensive, its offensive. It is a feeling of resentment over what another person or group has - be it a a material possession, a skill, or an emotional bond - and you feel you lack.

And oh boy, there is a lot of envy oozing from that medieval class room, some it more legitimate than other, but all felt.

Before continuing I want to clarify that Arya’s very real pain and low self-esteem, and the cruel ways in which Sansa sometimes treats her during AGOT shouldn't be dismissed as "deserved" or "exaggerated" because of her envy.

Ⅱ. Ⅰ. ARYA'S ENVY

Probably the easiest to locate.

In the formerly mentioned passage we see Arya being envious of Sansa. I would argue it's not up to interpretation since "with dull resentment" makes it very clear to me, but there is also tenderness. I don't think Arya hates Sansa, or at least not in that moment.

Something curious about envy is that it's not an entertaining sin. It's damaging not only to those you envy, but perhaps mostly to yourself. It is self-poisoning. And I think that during that scene Arya, isn't manifesting her envy. She very rarely verbalises it, instead she swallows her own anger and keeps it inside her. I couldn't find any passages where envy is the driving force on the few occasions Arya hurts Sansa. The closest I came to that is:

Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa's attention. "Here," she said, surrendering up her work. - Arya I, AGOT

But even then, her envy only hurts herself.

Arya longs to be like Sansa. She wants to be considered as pretty as Sansa, she wants to be as skilled as her sister and to feel accepted by the other girls in the group.

It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward. - Arya I, AGOT

I find it curious how Arya starts off listing skills, yet the thing that pains her the most is related to her appearance.

What starts as painful envy becomes a self deprecating chuckle and later maybe even a half-optimistic outlook on her own strength. Arya recognises that she is not worthless or fully inferior to her sister. She is able to find qualities in herself and they way she does is endearing. She internally even makes fun of Sansa for not being as good as she is in this one little thing.

Sadly she is still aware of how in the eyes of most, Sansa is the one deemed worthy of admiration and emulation, while the best Arya can get is pity.

The septa examined the fabric. "Arya, Arya, Arya," she said. "This will not do. This will not do at all." Everyone was looking at her. It was too much. Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. Even Princess Myrcella looked sorry for her. Arya felt tears filling her eyes. She pushed herself out of her chair and bolted for the door. - Arya I, AGOT

And Arya's envy doesn't come from simply being Arya, it comes from Arya not being seen as a valuable person by Westerosi society and, in my opinion, most importantly, by her mother.

I refer to the parent-child relationships on the whiteboard as "perceived", not because I deem them false or delusional, but because I've seen a lot of debate going around this topic and whether the favouritism is true or not and I don't know what to believe and honestly I don't care too much about it.

At this part of the conflict we don't really need to know if the Ned-Arya and Cat-Sansa favouritism is true or not. We just need to know that both girls feel some insecurity over their bond with their parents and feel envy.

Personally, I think both Stark parents love all their children deeply, it's just that love sometimes isn't perceived the way we want it to.

Both of her parents had conventional expectations for Arya, but it seems to me that Catelyn was the one who upheld these expectations while Ned acted more permissive. Eddard still intends for her to lead a life that is typical to that of a Lady,

"[...] And it is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too." - Catelyn II, AGOT

But it's not Eddard who Arya is terrified of:

It was worse than Jon had thought. It wasn't Septa Mordane waiting in her room. It was Septa Mordane and her mother. - Arya I, AGOT

And it's not Eddard whom Arya often fears being rejected by or disappointing.

Her father tells Arya she remembers him of Lyanna, a woman who is not only remembered as beautiful but also as loved and desired, and also shared some of her interests, such as swordsmanship.

Her mother though..

"Sansa's work is as pretty as she is," Septa Mordane told their lady mother once. "She has such fine, delicate hands." When Lady Catelyn had asked about Arya, the septa had sniffed. "Arya has the hands of a blacksmith." - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. - Catelyn II, AGOT

“…my hair’s messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard.” Robb wouldn’t care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out.“ - Arya VII, ASOS

Her mother used to say she could be pretty if she would just wash and brush her hair and take more care with her dress, the way her sister did. - The Blind girl, ADWD

And a recurring pattern in those lines is a comparison to Sansa, the sister who is not constantly failing at fulfilling society's expectations on her. The sister who she wishes she could emulate while also staying true to the person she is. The sister who seems to act as a passive perpetrator of Jeyne's bullying and sometimes acts cruel herself.

Ⅱ. Ⅱ. SANSA'S ENVY AND EMBARASSEMENT

When I first read AGOT, I didn't like any of the Stark sisters. I actually think the only Stark I liked back then was Bran. I was about as old as they were, had my own issues with internalised misogyny and thought both of them were a little annoying. My views on both of them during AGOT have changed A LOT in the past ten years and while I like who they become as the books move n, much more than I like who they were at the beginning, I've become very fond of their AGOT selves. And I think they are children! Children make mistakes! Children are shallow and impulsive and hedonistic.

So, I don't think Arya is the only person here who has a few negatives feelings about her sister.

More than envy I think Sansa feels second-hand embarrassment by Arya's behaviour and wishes she wouldn't be associated with her, and this is something Arya is aware of.

She was barefoot and dirty, her hair tangled from the long run through the castle, clad in a jerkin ripped by cat claws and brown roughspun pants hacked off above her scabby knees. You don't wear skirts and silks when you're catching cats. Quickly she lowered her head and dropped to one knee. Maybe they wouldn't recognize her. If they did, she would never hear the end of it. Septa Mordane would be mortified, and Sansa would never speak to her again from the shame. - Arya III, AGOT

Arya looked down at her ragged clothes and bare feet, all cracked and callused. She saw the dirt under her nails, the scabs on her elbows, the scratches on her hands. Septa Mordane wouldn't even know me, I bet. Sansa might, but she'd pretend not to. - Arya V, ACOK

And we also see Sansa wanting to deny association between her and her sister multiple times during AGOT:

Why couldn't Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a sister like that. - Sansa I, AGOT

"Send Arya away, she started it, Father, I swear it. I'll be good, you'll see, just let me stay and I promise to be as fine and noble and courteous as the queen." - Sansa III, AGOT

"[...]I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son." "I'm not like Arya," Sansa blurted. "She has the traitor's blood, not me. I'm good, ask Septa Mordane, she'll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey's loyal and loving wife." - Sansa IV, AGOT

Envy is something less present in Sansa's case, but I dare to think there is still a little of it lingering in her feelings. As if we had a cross involving affections and what is perceived by each Stark sister as a special relationship or favouritism between their fraternal foe and a respective parent.

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

There is envy perhaps not of the relationship itself, but of the liberation that comes with it, but I don't even think this is actually Eddard's fault, I think this has more to do with the overall social conditioning of girlhood in Westeros and with another adult.

Ⅱ. Ⅲ. SEPTA MORDANE AND THE SOCIAL CONDITIONING

Septa Mordane sees Sansa as an exemplary student and she has reasons to do so. Sansa is a good and well mannered girls who fits into the model Septa Mordane is trying to shape the girls into. She performs her assigned gender roles with grace and is willingly doing so. Sansa enjoys being a Lady, it makes her feel worthy and it allows her to daydream and enjoy romantic hobbies like poetry or singing.

Arya doesn't. Partially because she rejects that model, partially because she id rejected by that model. I don't know what came first.

And yet, Sansa also sometimes seems to feel encaged by that model and by the Septa's teachings. And often, when Sansa does something that contradicts this model of conduct that she usually likes following, her thoughts go to Arya. She compares herself or gets compared to Arya, not necessarily in a pejorative manner, but almost seeing her sister as a little devil on her shoulder.

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, and Sansa went to bed that night feeling almost as wicked as Arya. - Sansa III, AGOT

Sansa sighed. "They rode with Lord Beric, to behead Ser Gregor Clegane." She turned to Septa Mordane, who was eating porridge with a wooden spoon. "Septa, will Lord Beric spike Ser Gregor's head on his own gate or bring it back here for the king?" She and Jeyne Poole had been arguing over that last night. The septa was horror-struck. "A lady does not discuss such things over her porridge. Where are your courtesies, Sansa? I swear, of late you've been near as bad as your sister." - Sansa III, AGOT

"It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell." She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. - Sansa IV, AGOT

And who is usually disapproving of Arya's ways and telling her she puts them to shame?

Septa Mordane called after her. "Arya, come back here! Don't you take another step! Your lady mother will hear of this. In front of our royal princess too! You'll shame us all!" - Arya I, AGOT

And knowing how much Sansa cares about the way she is perceived by others, I can imagine Sansa thinking in frustration that it's unfair she gets reprimanded for these type of things when Arya does them all the time without realising that Arya suffers constantly because if it. It's just that they are less common in Sansa, so people are more surprised and "hopeful" of rectifying them. Septa Mordane almost looks at Arya as a lost cause. When she nags at Sansa it's because she wants to avoid Sansa becoming another lost cause.

And it's not that Septa Mordane is an evil witch trying to make Arya's life impossible. As much as I dislike Eddard Stark, I agree with him. This woman is just doing the job he and Cat tasked her to do. It's that she is part of an institution where girls like Arya aren't as valued as girls like Sansa.

Personally, I think she is one of the people carrying the most responsibility over Arya's bullying. I wouldn't say she participates in it, but she enables it.

During AGOT Arya describes Septa Mordane in an unflattering way and it is one of the few occasions where I don't think I should fully trust her POV, because yes, this woman is antagonistic to Arya, but I don't think she hates her.

"Septa Mordane is beside herself with fear. She's in the sept praying for your safe return." - Arya III, AGOT

I think, in her own flawed way, she is trying to "help" Arya adapt into conventional views of gender and Arya is having none of that (good for her!).

"Just where do you think you are going, Arya?" the septa demanded. Arya glared at her. "I have to go shoe a horse," she said sweetly, taking a brief satisfaction in the shock on the septa's face. Then she whirled and made her exit, running down the steps as fast as her feet would take her. - Arya I, AGOT

"Pray, where do you think you are going, young lady?" Septa Mordane asked. "I'm not hungry." Arya found it an effort to remember her courtesies. "May I be excused, please?" she recited stiffly. "You may not," the septa said. "You have scarcely touched your food. You will sit down and clean your plate." "You clean it!" Before anyone could stop her, Arya bolted for the door as the men laughed and Septa Mordane called loudly after her, her voice rising higher and higher. - Arya II, AGOT

Arya spun around, with Needle in her hand. "You better not come in here!" she warned. She slashed at the air savagely. "The Hand will hear of this!" Septa Mordane raged. "I don't care," Arya screamed. "Go away." - Arya II, AGOT

Poor woman is so frustrated with her job she one day passes out drunk on the table.

And I think Sansa suffers under her too, not because she dislikes the customs and views on femininity - she often recalls on Septa Mordane's teachings in moments of emotional need (Lady's armour is courtesy, find the beauty in every man) - but I think that as readers we can see how those are harming for her too.

"I've never seen an aurochs," Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen. Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. "A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table," she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa cried as Septa Mordane marched them down the steps. They were going to take it all away; the tournaments and the court and her prince, everything, they were going to send her back to the bleak grey walls of Winterfell and lock her up forever. Her life was over before it had begun. "Stop that weeping, child," Septa Mordane said sternly. "I am certain your lord father knows what is best for you." - Sansa III, AGOT

That one last passage drives me wild when it comes to Jeyne Poole and you'll see why later.

So basically, Septa Mordane antagonises Arya for her failings as her student. The class (Beth, Sansa & Jeyne) emulates the teacher's disapproval and distaste, Sansa feels embarrassed by association and Jeyne Poole takes advantage of the situation and targets Arya.

And now I can finally get to the true object of my obsession here, beloved middle school mean girl:

Ⅲ. Jeyne Poole and her many mixed emotions

As said, I feel so weird about my love for this girl. People call Theon a "poor little meow meow" but when I first read these books I didn't see him as an anti-hero/minor-villain during ACOK, but more of my avenging hero. I had tears of rage when he was threatening to hang Beth but I was also weirdly cheering for him. Jeyne on the other hand, she is my poor little meow meow! She is my problematic fave! And she makes me cry like crazy and I hope she has the happiest ending in these goddamn books.

I probably feel more attached to her than I feel to Arya and Sansa. I don't understand this. Anyway, I have two possible assumptions for why Jeyne is always antagonising Arya. And yes, she IS ANTAGONISING Arya, even when Arya is no longer there.

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had told Arya that he'd cut him up in so many pieces that they'd given him back to the butcher in a bag, and at first the poor man had thought it was a pig they'd slaughtered.  - Arya II, AGOT

It was all her fault, everything bad that had happened. Sansa said so, and Jeyne too. - Arya II, AGOT

"I saw your sister this afternoon," Jeyne blurted out, as if she'd been reading Sansa's thoughts. "She was walking through the stables on her hands. Why would she do a thing like that?" - Sansa III, AGOT

"I will be a better wife than the real Arya could have been, he'll see." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

"Arya Underfoot. Your sister used to call you Arya Horseface." "It was me made up that name. Her face was long and horsey. Mine isn't. I was pretty." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

You know, this entire thing started because I wanted to make a stupid joke but then I got more emotional and invested into this as I wrote, and now we are here and I don't even remember the actual joke I wanted to make so I have to improvise with the thing above.

I don't believe this is true either. There are absolutely no canon indications for Jeyne to have had been dealing with comphet and bullying Arya because of a crush (there is a rather fun fanfic though!) (and there is another but with angstier and subtler vibes and it's Theyne + Jeynsa). Although, in my opinion, there are a few other things; like class envy and projection!

Ⅲ. Ⅰ. JEYNE POOLE'S CLASS ENVY

I think hers is the most obvious case of envy, but unlike the envy between the Stark sisters it doesn't come from a place of emotional insecurity, but of socio-economical discomfort.

That is why I included "Beric Dondarrion" [insert highborn lord/knight] in that mind map.

Jeyne isn't envious of Arya's relationship with Ned Stark and much less of her skills. Jeyne is envious, and perhaps even particularly resentful, of the fact that Arya is offered AND rejects what Jeyne wishes but will always stay out of her reach.

I have joked about Jeyne's crush on Beric (and her possible implied crushes on Robb & Theon) in the past but I don't think I ever mentioned the class envy when doing so.

When [Jeyne] saw young Lord Beric Dondarrion, with his hair like red gold and his black shield slashed by lightning, she pronounced herself willing to marry him on the instant. - Sansa II, AGOT

She had seen Jeyne Poole giving [Robb] moist-eyed glances, and some of the serving girls, even ones as old as eighteen… - Catelyn XI, AGOT

"Help me." [Jeyne] clutched at [Theon]. "Please. I used to watch you in the yard, playing with your swords. You were so handsome." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

All the men she seems to at some point in her life experience some form of attraction for, even if it is that of a child, it's a puppy crush, just infatuation, are people she would never have a chance with. Two (theoretically) future lord paramounts and a marcher lord. All of them unachievable to a steward's daughter. And with that in consideration, let's look at this:

Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?" "You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there. - Eddard V, AGOT

And I wonder how frustrating that must feel to Jeyne. To see someone who she deems as inferior in skills and manners because of the conditioning they've gone through under Septa Mordane's tutelage, someone who she considers beneath her, be offered and forced things she desperately wants and will never get.

Hell, Jeyne even manifests some juridical administrative knowledge and argues with Sansa about it, something she won't get to do as an adult woman, while Sansa and Arya will rule (their husband's) castles.

"Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." [...] "Ser Ilyn's the King's Justice, not Ser Loras," Jeyne said. "Lord Eddard should have sent him." - Sansa III, AGOT

Not that any of them would be good at ruling anything, they are all middle schoolers at this point, but I think she could have felt vexed at constantly seeing Arya reject all that she wishes she could have for herself.

Please don't misunderstand me, that is still not a valid reason to bully Arya.

There are no valid reasons to bully a child.

But there are reasons behind Jeyne's mentality and actions, and I think some of those reasons come from a sense of resentment over how "easy" things are for Arya because of her status as Lord Stark's daughter.

As Arya Stark, Jeyne's dreams come true, she marries the future paramount Lord of Winterfell and twisted wish fulfilment is one hell of a drug and not one strong enough to numb the pain! And to add insult to injury, the real Arya gets to spend a significant amount of time accompanying Beric Dondarrion and his band of merry men. I fucking hate this!

And while I think that this is the main aspect of Jeyne bullying Arya, there is something more which I haven't seen written elsewhere and I am willing to admit it could be a sketchy interpretation, but I would like to talk about it anyway because it's MY inane post and I get to choose the straws I grasp at!

Ⅲ. Ⅱ. JEYNE POOLE'S LOOKS

We don't have a lot of physical descriptions for Jeyne. Her eyes are the most remarkable feature about her, being described as big, brown and expressive by Theon and Jaime. Sansa and Holly consider her pretty. Theon calls her beautiful, but only when prompted by Ramsay and it's not very believable. In his thoughts he previously claims she is no longer pretty because of the slashes on her back. I don't know how seriously he means this, but I find it remarkable. Asides from that she is described as a skinny, pale, brown haired girl. She describes herself as formerly pretty but not beautiful and when doing so compares herself to Sansa and sees herself as the lesser of the two. And yet, the entire ruse she is later involved in with this pseudo-karmic punishment, is based on her looking similar enough to Arya or the Stark look to pass as one. I always thought it was so extremely funny how defensive she gets when she claims her face isn't horsey, at the mere mention of the "horseface" nickname, even without Theon telling her she looks horsey.

I don't know. It is probably that I'm looking into this with more depth than I should simply because of...obvious reasonsfsgfgsfsghgdnfjdhdf, but who sometimes makes remarks about the Stark look being one of bastards and plain-looking-people?

[Arya] even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered.- Sansa I, AGOT

My lord father found some skinny northern girl more or less the same age with more or less the same coloring. - Jaime IX, ASOS

"You [Arya] ought to marry Hodor, you're just like him, stupid and hairy and ugly!" - Sansa III, AGOT

Imagining little Sansa Stark going to vent to little Jeyne Poole after having an argument with her sister and making a perhaps not even genuinely meant comment about little Arya Stark's looks and Jeyne just sitting there mentally competing against Stannis Baratheon in who can grind their teeth the hardest.

While there are no instances of Sansa calling Arya "Horseface" she sometimes remarks to herself and to her sister that she thinks Arya is ugly and looks like a commoner.

And who has class insecurities and also seems to look similar to Arya?

"Jeyne, Jeyne, it rhymes with plain..." I can already imagine her whispering that to herself if she ever hears Theon's rhymes.

"I was never beautiful like Sansa, but they all said I was pretty. Does Lord Ramsay think I am pretty?" - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

The only thing Jeyne seems to really have going for her compared to Arya, the thing that could miraculously elevate her, are her looks and even those pale compared to Sansa. As said, she is described as pretty by some, but not beautiful.

In my opinion, the text doesn't really describe Arya as ugly. It is somewhat left up to interpretation since, while Sansa, Cat, Theon and Arya herself give us the impression she might be, there are also textual comparisons to Lyanna and even people who didn't know her think of Arya as beautiful (Lady Smallwood), but since these girls grew up the way they grew up...

I can imagine Jeyne feeling like her "prettiness" is the one thing she thinks can be used to make her more valuable in Westerosi society, and in order to keep that idea of herself being prettier than Arya, she has to make sure Arya doesn't feel good about her looks, so she calls her horseface.

And, if going by this entire text that I've been writing because I am stupid, that is also completely self-destructive and tragicomical !!!

Basically I think it is possible that Jeyne is projecting her own insecurities regarding her looks and her overall sense of inferiority compared to Sansa unto Arya.

And Jeyne has reasons to feel inferior to Sansa beyond simply the class hierarchy and the possible feeling of unattractiveness, because - and now I will get blocked by another load of people if this is read- Sansa is not very good at being a friend to her!

Ⅳ. The Sansa-Jeyne Dynamic

This is one of those things that completely baffles me, same as the Theon-Robb dynamic, where I have no idea how it is possible that my perception in the past ten years has been so drastically different from the majority of the fandom. And I swear to god, I've tried to change my perspective, I read metas, I tried fanfics, and I still don't get it.

This years Sansa month dedicated an entire day to Jeyne Poole.

Someone who is not very well acquainted with the books would probably assume Jeyne Poole is a very important girl in Sansa's narrative based on that information. They'd probably be surprised to find out that, since the two girls were separated, Jeyne Poole is remembered a total number of four times by Sansa Stark.

Sansa thinks of Jeyne Poole a total of four (4) times since AGOT.

In the span of four books in which both Stark sisters go through terribly drastic changes in their lives, Arya thinks of the girl who bullied her three times.

Sansa who loves and misses Jeyne thinks of her four times.

And you are telling me that she is so important to Sansa that she deserves an entire day dedicated to her? And everything that is created in that day is about how Sansa loves her so much and cares for her tremendously and will protect her?

PERSON D: It's because Sansa is traumatised. It pains her too much to think of her. Not thinking of her is a coping mechanism.

"She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. The septa had lost her head with the rest, for the crime of serving House Stark. Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. She tried not to think of them too often, yet sometimes the memories came unbidden, and then it was hard to hold back the tears." - Sansa II, ACOK

Person D: See?

Probably! I don't oppose that interpretation, it's very possible. People often suppress painful memories. But I can still disapprove of that coping mechanism. Would you like it if you suddenly disappeared form the face of earth in extremely mysterious circumstances and your friend wouldn't even ask about what happened to you? I don't think I would feel loved and treasured if I were to know that.

I don't like the way their dynamic is perceived by a majority of the fandom based on those four thoughts and the few other times we seen them interact in AGOT.

Person E: Oh OP is just posting anti-Jeynsa stuff because they ship Jeyne, A CHILD, with Theon, AN ADULT MAN AND RAPIST!

I wouldn't consider this anti-Jeynsa since

This is what makes their dynamic intriguing for me. This is the type of Jeynsa I'm into!!!

I don't think their relationship in inherently wrong or that it would be morally condemnable.

Also I don't even really ship Theon & Jeyne as an endgame romantic/sexual ship, not that it wowuld be morally wrong for anyone to do so. I "ship" it as a very turbulent dynamic between two people who have been forced to bond by the horrible circumstances they have been in and who have had the boundaries that define certain relationship dynamics blurred in some very traumatic ways. I "ship it" in the sense that I would like to see both of them find some tranquility and peace in their lives and try to explore which of those blurred boundaries they wish to reestablish, keep blurred or fully erase. Hell, I wrote a 100k fanfic focusing on their relationship and didn't even let them be endgame. I didn't even let them be actually in love.

It's just that "cute, loving, soft, homoromantic childhood best friends" isn't the dynamic I'm usually interested in.

And I don't think the Jeynsa dynamic is that.

I think there are class issues and inferiorities to be explored. I think Sansa is true in her affections for Jeyne, she loves her and sees her as a friend, but she is also diminishing and tends to look down on her, and regardless if it is a coping mechanism or not, she shows no interest in finding out what happened to who she considers her "truest friend".

And I don't believe Sansa is a bad person for this, I believe she is a young girl. Relationships between women are complicated enough already. Relationships between pre-teen and teen girls have entire studies dedicated to them.

Person F: How much would Sansa even consider her as a bff? In their bullying of Arya, Jeyne comes across as the acolyte to Queen Bea Sansa. And that's just modern projection. Jeyne is from a minor house. She's just a steward's daughter. She's just slightly above a servant in feudalist hierarchy. She's assigned to be her "friend" coz she's conveniently the same age, and that's just what you did then. Like "milk-siblings", servants who shared a wetnurse with a lord. (1/2)(2/2) Lower houses are fancy domesticity to the greater houses. The great nobility is fancy domesticity to royalty. That's just how feudalism worked. Everyone was thought of as a servant, the entirety of society was built on a network of servitude and dependance. Even the king is a servant: to God. Or "Gods" in the case of ASOIAF. Hence all the conclicts between church and royalty.

I saw this comment a while ago on a Tumblr post (I'm not putting a source link because I don't believe that would be fair to them and also it's older than a year) and I don't like it.

I think it is unfairly villainising Sansa and also removing Jeyne's agency in that situation by putting her as an "acolyte" (assistant, follower), when the composition of our first scene involving them, in my opinion, shows her as an adviser. I also don't like how it is pretending that Jeyne is being forced to be Sansa's friend and if going by that logic, then why isn't Beth being forced to be Arya's friend?

I disagree with it. I think it simplifies a more complex situation.

But I wish we were allowed to explore the less wholesome aspects in the Jeyne-Sansa dynamic without being instantaneously labeled as a Sansa-anti and it is what I'll attempt.

Something I always found very endearing and relatable about Sansa was how much she craved for friends - especially female friends - since she is left alone in King's Landing.

It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. - Sansa II, ASOS

How am I supposed not to feel my heart ache in bittersweetness? My favourite Sansa "friendship" is actually the one she builds with Garlan Tyrell, but this is a moment of bliss.

It's interesting how Sansa often finds amusement in female friends who act very differently from how she does, but as her character evolves in the books her feelings for those types of companions also seem to change.

We have Jeyne, Margaery and Myranda, as her "friends", characters with whom she experiences very different dynamics and I think it is at least partially involved with their classes too.

Jeyne is the one she treats the most poorly, in my opinion. Ignoring how little she thinks of her after Jeyne is taken away by Littlefinger, let's see some of their previous interactions and let's also keep in mind that Sansa is (at most) a 12-year-old girl not having a very good time and she deserves compassion:

[...] Jeyne and Sansa cried out in unison as riders crashed together, lances exploding into splinters while the commons screamed for their favorites. Jeyne covered her eyes whenever a man fell, like a frightened little girl, but Sansa was made of sterner stuff. A great lady knew how to behave at tournaments. Even Septa Mordane noted her composure and nodded in approval. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa feels superior to Jeyne for staying calm at the face of violence. This will become a pattern.

Jeyne Poole wept so hysterically that Septa Mordane finally took her off to regain her composure, but Sansa sat with her hands folded in her lap, watching with a strange fascination. [...] By then Septa Mordane had returned, alone. Jeyne had been feeling ill, she explained; she had helped her back to the castle. Sansa had almost forgotten about Jeyne. - Sansa II, AGOT

Jeyne is hysterical after seeing a man die at the tourney, Sansa isn't very concerned for her friend's mental state.

"His leg?" Jeyne said uncertainly. She was a pretty, dark-haired girl of Sansa's own age. "Did Ser Loras hurt his leg?" "Not his leg," Sansa said, nibbling delicately at a chicken leg. "Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." - Sansa III, AGOT

"Silly". It could be solely meant with endearment, but throughout that scene Sansa is in a bad mood and I wonder how Jeyne might have perceived it given she continues arguing with her about juridical administration and contradicts Sansa.

Of course, Jeyne had been in love with Lord Beric ever since she had first glimpsed him in the lists. Sansa thought she was being silly; Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, and no matter how much she mooned after him, Lord Beric would never look at someone so far beneath him, even if she hadn't been half his age. - Sansa III, AGOT

Again, "silly", and this time with a slightly classist connotation. And the saddest thing is that Sansa is right, but she often daydreams of unrealistic or impossible romantic scenarios herself and had a crush on Waymar Royce, a man who was older than her, of lower nobility and about to make a vow of celibacy. Why is Jeyne the silly one for daydreaming?

"They're killing everyone," the steward's daughter had shrieked at her. She went on and on. The Hound had broken down her door with a warhammer, she said. There were bodies on the stair of the Tower of the Hand, and the steps were slick with blood. Sansa dried her own tears as she struggled to comfort her friend. They went to sleep in the same bed, cradled in each other's arms like sisters. The second day was even worse. [...] The only sounds were Jeyne Poole's endless whimpers and sobs. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had been confined with her, but Jeyne was useless. Her face was puffy from all her crying, and she could not seem to stop sobbing about her father. "I'm certain your father is well," Sansa told her when she had finally gotten the dress buttoned right. "I'll ask the queen to let you see him." She thought that kindness might lift Jeyne's spirits, but the other girl just looked at her with red, swollen eyes and began to cry all the harder. She was such a child. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Remember what I said about Septa Mordane's "Stop weeping, child."? Sansa is vexed by her crying although Sansa cries herself, thinks of her as useless, she thinks demeaningly of Jeyne because she is crying after realising her father has been killed..

"Jeyne's scared," Sansa said. "She won't stop crying. I promised her I'd ask if she could see her father." - Sansa IV, AGOT

This feels like a twisted version of the first passage in this list. Sansa is scared herself, we know this because she was trembling as she dressed, but she speaks only of Jeyne's fear.

Jeyne Poole and all her things were gone when Ser Mandon Moore returned Sansa to the high tower of Maegor's Holdfast. No more weeping, she thought gratefully. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Sansa, love, I know you are very stressed out but come on open your eyes!

Somehow this reminds me a bit of a less extreme version of Theon's inconsistencies in thoughts and actions involving Jeyne in ADWD. He is very crude when thinking of her, but if you go through his actual treatment of her, he is surprisingly tender. The only exception I can think of for them is in TWOW.

With Sansa, I think it is similar, but whereas Theon is painfully aware of how perilous their lives as Ramsay's playthings are, Sansa constantly refuses to see the gravity of their situation and thus is dismissive of Jeyne in a moment where it becomes terribly cruel. I don't think she doesn't love Jeyne, of course, she does,

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, - Sansa III, AGOT

"Where are you sending her? She hasn't done anything wrong, she's a good girl." - Sansa IV, AGOT

No more weeping, she thought gratefully. Yet somehow it seemed colder with Jeyne gone, even after she'd built a fire. - Sansa IV, AGOT

She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. [...] Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. - Sansa II, ACOK

She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, - Sansa V, ACOK

She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. - Alayne II, AFFC

Remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. - Alayne I, TWOW

I think Sansa just sometimes takes her for granted.

I think it's sad because it's realistic and it hurts even more when you compare her treatment of Jeyne to her treatment of Margaery and Myranda after going through a period of hostile isolation and a heartbreaking customary middle school betrayal, two things that I believe influence her feelings for both girls.

With Margaery and her posse, she is idealistic. She considers Margaery to be kind, brave and wise, and finds bliss (and a little bit of envy and gayness, ooooh) in the company of her ladies.

Margaery's kindness had been unfailing, and her presence changed everything. Her ladies welcomed Sansa as well. It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. Lady Leonette gave her lessons on the high harp, and Lady Janna shared all the choice gossip. Merry Crane always had an amusing story, and little Lady Bulwer reminded her of Arya, though not so fierce. Closest to Sansa's own age were the cousins Elinor, Alla, and Megga, Tyrells from junior branches of the House. "Roses from lower on the bush," quipped Elinor, who was witty and willowy. Megga was round and loud, Alla shy and pretty, but Elinor ruled the three by right of womanhood; she was a maiden flowered, whereas Megga and Alla were mere girls. The cousins took Sansa into their company as if they had known her all their lives. They spent long afternoons doing needlework and talking over lemon cakes and honeyed wine, played at tiles of an evening, sang together in the castle sept ... and often one or two of them would be chosen to share Margaery's bed, where they would whisper half the night away. Alla had a lovely voice, and when coaxed would play the woodharp and sing songs of chivalry and lost loves. Megga couldn't sing, but she was mad to be kissed. She and Alla played a kissing game sometimes, she confessed, but it wasn't the same as kissing a man, much less a king. - Sansa II, ASOS

There is a direct comparison to Arya, mentions of many of Sansa's hobbies, some sapphicness, and if I squint my eyes the needlework and lemon cakes remind me of Jeyne & Beth. And then...Sansa is made to marry Tyrion and that match frustrates the Tyrell's ambitions.

And here Sansa found the Tyrells. Margaery gave her such a sad look, and when the Queen of Thorns tottered in between Left and Right, she never looked at her at all. Elinor, Alla, and Megga seemed determined not to know her. My friends, Sansa thought bitterly. - Sansa III, ASOS

After that emotional betrayal, Sansa spends more time of isolation and this time it's even more depressing in my opinion. The few people who show her kindness are also somewhat compliant in her misery and then she gets abducted by Petyr Baelish and has to take the role of his bastard daughter, Alayne Stone. Under this guise she meets Myranda Royce and Mya Stone.

While I would say she befriends both girls, her connection with Randa resembles that which she had with Jeyne and Margaery more than her connection with Mya. Both of them share some common interests and Myranda, isn't disdainful at all of her supposed bastardy.

Person G: That's because she is cunning and suspects Alayne is actually highborn.

I'm not so convinced by that argument! She is described of being as closes as sisters with Mya Stone, another bastard.

Sansa's distrust for Myranda is, in my opinion, only partially fuelled by Littlefinger's words.

"Soon or late you must meet Myranda Royce," Petyr had warned her. "When you do, be careful. She likes to play the merry fool, but underneath she's shrewder than her father. Guard your tongue around her." - Alayne II, AFFC

I think her distrust comes mostly from her last close homosocial relationship having been a farce, from feeling manipulated, used and deceived. And that mistrust remains but is worn down by Randa's warm personality.

I think there is is something very sweet about comparing the following passages:

Sansa knelt at the feet of her future queen. "You do me great honor, Your Grace." "Won't you call me Margaery? Please, rise. Loras, help the Lady Sansa to her feet. Might I call you Sansa?" - Sansa I, ASOS

"Kind?" The older girl gave a laugh. "How boring that would be. I aspire to be wicked. You must tell me all your secrets on the ride down. May I call you Alayne?" "If you wish, my lady." But you'll get no secrets from me. "I am 'my lady' at the Gates, but up here on the mountain you may call me Randa. How many years have you, Alayne?" [...] "As you say, my lady." "Randa. Come now, you can say it. Ran. Da." "Randa." - Alayne II, AFFC

It's curious how in both cases there is this chance of friendship being offered to Sansa by a girl who has a higher rank than her but one is done much more courteously than the other. Sansa never calls Myranda "Randa" again, but as she warms up to her she begins referring to her as such in the narration. I think that is very heartwarming.

Maybe it is stupid to complain about the idealisation of a flawed friendship in these books, but I think the reason it annoys me so much is because it removes this type of development in Sansa's socialising. Her interactions with Myranda are delightful to read and I think it's the healthiest friendship she has formed yet.

And Myranda also embodies aspects of Margaery and Jeyne, so it's an even funnier conclusion. She is a little bit less ladylike than Sansa, but is still comfortable with her gender and the assigned roles, she is a little foul mouthed, she likes to gossip and to take friends to her bed (in an apparent not-sexual way).

"Lothor Brune?" Myranda raised an eyebrow. "Does she know?" She did not wait for an answer. "He has no hope, poor man. My father's tried to make a match for Mya, but she'll have none of them. She is half mule, that one." Despite herself, Alayne found herself warming to the older girl. She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. "Do you think Ser Lothor likes her as she is, in mail and leather?" she asked the older girl, who seemed so worldly-wise. "Or does he dream of her draped in silks and velvets?" "He's a man. He dreams of her naked." She is trying to make me blush again. Lady Myranda must have heard her thoughts. "You do turn such a pretty shade of pink. When I blush I look quite like an apple. I have not blushed for years, though." She leaned closer. "Does your father plan to wed again?" - Alayne II, AFFC

Even Lady Myranda began to yawn and complain of being weary. "We have apartments prepared for all of you," she told Alayne, "but if you like you may share my bed tonight. It's large enough for four." "I should be honored, my lady." "Randa. Count yourself fortunate that I'm so tired. All I want to do is curl up and go to sleep. Usually when ladies share my bed they have to pay a pillow tax and tell me all about the wicked things they've done." "What if they haven't done any wicked things?" "Why, then they must confess all the wicked things they want to do. Not you, of course. I can see how virtuous you are just by looking at those rosy cheeks and big blue eyes of yours." She yawned again. "I hope your feet are warm. I do hate bedmaids with cold feet." - Alayne II, AFFC

"I do hope you will forgive me for depriving you of Lady Myranda's company," Alayne told the knights. She did not wait for a reply, but took the older girl arm-in-arm and drew her away from the bench. Only when they were out of earshot did she whisper, "Do you really know where my father is?" "Of course not. Walk faster, my new suitors may be following." Myranda made a face. "Ossifer Lipps is the dullest knight in the Vale, but Uther Shett aspires to his laurels. I am praying they fight a duel for my hand, and kill each other." Alayne giggled. "Surely Lord Nestor would not seriously entertain a suit from such men." - Alayne I, TWOW

"Too late," Myranda said. "They're here. We shall need to do the honors by ourselves." She grinned. "Last one to the gate must marry Uther Shett." They made a race of it, dashing headlong across the yard and past the stables, skirts flapping, whilst knights and serving men alike looked on, and pigs and chickens scattered before them. It was most unladylike, but Alayne sound found herself laughing. For just a little while, as she ran, she forget who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. By the time they arrived at the gatehouse, both of them were red-faced and panting. Myranda had lost her cloak somewhere along the way. They were just in time. - Alayne I, TWOW 

I don't even ship them (Mya x Myranda and Sansa x Brienne ftw), and this doesn't have anything to do with the theme of whatever this text turned into, but I love their dynamic so much I would ship it if it became canon. It's adorable and funny and out of her dynamics with other girls, this one is my favourite.

We know that the Sansa-Margaery friendship turned out disappointingly, and some have the suspicion that Myranda could act as a new tormentor for Sansa, and I have no way to disprove that, but seeing her development in regards to female friendships makes me at least doubt it.

She took Jeyne for granted and was disdainful, spent a time of hostile isolation, met Margaery and her ladies, went through the horrors of idealisation and crashed against the truth, spent even more time alone and kept the wounds from her sorrow, and is now apparently finding a healthy friendship with Myranda Royce and I love that for her.

It makes me wonder how her feelings for Jeyne could evolve if they get to meet again, and whether she will be more conscious of how their friendship was flawed. Of how she should have probably tried to be more attentive to the dynamic between Jeyne & Arya, of how she perhaps shouldn't have been passive about Jeyne's bullying nor participated in it.

As I write I am checking everything in my journals and I couldn't find a single occasion in which we see Sansa calling Arya "Horseface", but I did however find her thinking of Arya's looks as "horsey" with a negative connotation:

Her long horsey face got the stubborn look that meant she was going to do something willful. [...] One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

She also giggles at and uses Jeyne's nicknames for Hobber and Horas Redwyne:

The Redwyne twins, Ser Horas and Ser Hobber, homely youths with orange hair and square, freckled faces. Sansa and Jeyne Poole used to call them Ser Horror and Ser Slobber, and giggle whenever they caught sight of them. - Arya V, AGOT

She recognized black-skinned Jalabhar Xho, gloomy Ser Aron Santagar, the Redwyne twins Horror and Slobber - Sansa V, ACOK

Paxter Redwyne, Lord of the Arbor, marched down the length of the hall flanked by his twin sons Horror and Slobber, - Sansa VIII, ACOK

And seeing her snicker at those names is already enough for me to pin her as a passive victimiser in their case. Even if she felt bad about it, something I could find no indication of. Sansa doesn't think of how painful it must be for them to be referred to that way, how dehumanising it is.

So, with that information, I don't think she's above having called Arya "Horseface".

Ⅴ. Adulthood

Where are the adults? Why is it that during the entire time we spend with these three girls under the care of Septa Mordane, Ned and Catelyn Stark and Vayon Poole we never see them taking action and putting a stop to this?

DontbotherwiththepronunciationRightNowRealisingTheySpentWayTooMuchFuckingTimeDevelopingAPunchlineTheyLost: Probably because this book isn't about medieval setting middle school bullying, you idiot! And there is a lot of really urgent stuff going on with the adults. Get over yourself.

Yeah...

But still! Prior to all that, prior to the story we've been reading, these characters existed in their own universe and in that universe, all these girls have been judged by adult society and have been set in a toxic environment that unintentionally allows and encourages the bullying.

I already explained that when talking about Septa Mordane.

My question now isn't whether we should fault the adults or not, but more about how this would have developed as Arya, Jeyne and Sansa all became adults.

Of corse, this is all speculation on a rather unimportant topic that has been discussed hundreds of times before and my opinion is probably somewhat tainted by lingering emotions, so yeah this might have been worthless but I couldn't sleep and it was a little fun.

Perhaps because of my own issues with bullying, which were handed very poorly by the adults who should have solved it, I like daydreaming about these three girls, all of who I like and wish good things upon, and wondering whether they would have been able to solve their problems as they matured into adulthood if their lives had remained peaceful. I sadly don't think they would have.

Throughout the entire text I wrote, I felt like walking on egg shells because, as you can probably see if you just look at my blog, I barely talk about Arya or Sansa and I know there is a lot of tension between fans of those characters and I didn't want to say anything that could feel offensive and somehow it was still surprisingly easy to write this. I think maybe it is because I don't relate to any of the characters, like I do with Theon or Barbrey, so I can distance myself from it a little more. On the other hand, this is a topic that still haunts me.

I really don't think they would have solved any of this if they had remained in Winterfell with things going the way they usually went.

But now, after being completely torn and victimised by war in extremely different ways that still somehow manage to bring similar themes to their stories (the always present threat of sexual abuse, the weaponising of a person, depersonalisation, dead parents, a broken home, losing their privileges as highborn, being saved by the Hound), once they reunite and are the only bonds that remains of a happier time, I think they could.

Maybe their newly found maturity and the despair born out of tragedy could make it easier to overcome all their past offences and forge a bond.

It's strange. I always go for the bitter, resentful and scorned women - I wonder why - (Barb, Cersei) or those who have aspects I can relate to cultural duality, immigration or rootlessness (Theon, Dany) but never for the more-or-less-happily-gender-conforming "damsel in distress", much less for one who reminds me of some of the worst people I've met, and yet out of the three girls involved in this she is the one I am the most attached to.

I think she mostly grew on me after I learnt she was omitted from the show and that her narrative was given to Sansa because that is such a cruel joke from D&D.

Jeyne Poole: Hey! I am the character meant to show how everyone is valuable, worthy and deserving of being saved and protected and how everyone matters and also to further develop Theon's character while functioning as a symbol of his culpability and regret of the three vilest things he has done(among other things of course)! D&D: Ok, we are cutting her because she is not important enough to matter. Give her plot to the barely adult red-headed Stark so Theon can find redemption by saving a Stark and getting a wolf pin and we can shiptease Sansa with a bunch of people and marketise her as an ice queen girlboss.

It's so mean it's a little funny. On a meta level I think she is the biggest loser in this series. I think that is why I like her so much. I liked her before I knew of that and I remember crying at @/croclock's art of her and Theon escaping (1) (2) (3), but I didn't feel as emotionally attached to her until after I found out.

I remember when I watched the show there was a scene that caused a lot of controversy that I can somehow relate to this.

Sandor Clegane: You've changed, Little Bird. None of it would have happened if you'd left King's Landing with me. No Littlefinger, no Ramsay... none of it. Sansa Stark: Without Littlefinger and Ramsay and the rest, I would have stayed a Little Bird all my life.

And of course this dialogue is gross and it doesn't make any sense in the books, and I still wrote it down on my journals because I think, maybe trying to be an optimist, that the message behind it was different than what was actually said???

It comes across as "I'm happy and grateful I was abused and raped" which is nauseating, obviously, but I think it was rather supposed to be more of a "All the choices I've made across my life and all the events that occurred through it have lead me here, to become the person I am today and I am proud of that person." which could still have been controversial, but is something I would have agreed with more, and it's not something I would only apply on these girls.

Maybe we'll get such a moment at some point with a better execution, hopefully, in the books.

#speaking #this escalated. #like to an entire different level I didn't knew existed #I just finished reading it and I honestly thin the fact this happened is better and funnier than whatever dumb joke I wanted to originally #make. I am so sorry for whoever opens the read more. This is hilarious #that's what a breakfast lunch and dinner consisting of ibuprofen and sink water will do to you #I feel like if I tag this I will get into trouble or at least blocked a lot so I will tag this as #Arya-Jeyne-Sansa thing #for now #I forgot the goddamn joke #My biggest fear about this is that it is so long no one will finish reading it (which would be kind of funny) #fuck it #I am posting it! #the narrative didn't doom me it just ditched me #Jeyne Poole #beth cassel #septa mordane #arya stark #sansa stark

[miss-celestia13]

Kiss With a Fist

Dark Richy x Dark OFMC Smut

Words: 4.2k

I didn't expect to write more for this pair. But Aylin wouldn't leave my head, and I wanted to test the boundaries of a really dark character and romance. You don’t even have to know the fandom to read this one 😂

On the run. Fighting and fucking. A lot. A hotel bed. Scamming the rich folks. Torturing Richy until he loses control. All of it is child’s play to Aylin.

TW: Vague Mention of Drugs. Robbing people. Consensual Violent Sex. Hair Pulling. Pain and Pleasure. Bondage. Utterly Shameless, Unhinged, Unprotected Smut and strange, sadistic ways of flirting😅 Dark/Black Comedy. Link to the first one shot is below. You don’t have to read it to read this one. There is no real plot. Just pure, filthy p*rn.

Run Towards the Monster

People Aylin wants to kill or seriously harm

1 - Sandra - Hotel receptionist. Gossiping old hag. Always has mascara goop in the corner of her eye. Asks too many questions. Apparently, asking for two room keys is an outrage she couldn’t accept.

2 - David - Gas station attendant. Greasy long hair and dirt caked under his nails as he handed her a hotdog. He tried to flirt and reeked of cat piss, and she couldn’t eat the hotdog after that.

3 - The new money dickhead flashing his Rolex and black Amex yet seemed impervious to buying her a simple martini. Ordered her a salad for dinner… that she had to pay for.

4 - Richy - Changes every day. That day, he was complaining about having to stay hidden. Not her fault the idiot's face is still being shown on the news. Told him to grow a beard, and now that was the source of his complaints, as it was going too slow. May slit his throat if he doesn’t shut the fuck up soon.

Aylin

The black silk dress that had hung despondently on the svelte mannequin in the overpriced store she bought it from was now the only thing keeping her skin from feeling flayed by the suffocating heat of the evening. She was perched at the hotel bar. A swanky, snobbish place she had chosen when Richy attempted to convince her a Motel 6 would suffice. Fuck that. She was a creature of luxury and comfort. Nothing else mattered but her beauty sleep, and well-being. Richy had shut up when she’d shoved him against the elevator wall, hit the emergency stop, and made him cum down her throat in under 90 seconds. She could still feel an ache in her jaw whenever she yawned. He hadn’t complained since though she knew he would be furious with her tonight.

Demurely, she sipped her martini, dry with three olives, and surveyed her target of the night as he ordered yet another whiskey. In order to maintain this lifestyle and ensure she and Richy remained free, she had gone back to her old pastime of scamming those with too much money and not enough sense. It didn’t take much. A revealing outfit, a flash of the expensive burgundy lace covering her freshly waxed cunt, and a salacious smile were typically enough to hook someone in. Usually, she would bed them and wait until they’d slipped into a very male doze before she rifled through their things and made off with a small fortune. Now though, Richy’s possessive side had forbidden her to try it. She chafed at the order, the ownership. But she enjoyed it deeply and grew increasingly heated as she pondered how he was faring in their room.

She had left him in bed. Not typically a cause for alarm or anger. But she doubted he'd ever been left strapped down so tightly he couldn't do more than curl his hands into tight fists. Oh, she was going to hurt later, but it was his turn first. She had left him with a bloody lip, and the coppery tang still lingered in her mouth despite the liquor she was sinking while waiting for this fool to give her the chance to slip something inside his vile drink. After listening to his bragging and pandering to his crippling need for validation, she wanted to skin him alive. People with money never deserved it, and neither did she, but she at least would have more fun with it.

When he finally deigned to return to the stool beside hers, she tossed a sultry smile his way, running the tip of her finger around the wide rim of her glass, and licked her scarlet-painted bottom lip, internally preening when he fell for it. Her long raven hair was loose and lightly waved, scented with rich coconut and sea salt. Her mark breathed deeply whenever she flipped it over her shoulder. That was the problem with people like her. Everything about them was designed to draw fools like this one in, beauty so sharp it could open a vein, no remorse to stop her from using it to gain what she wanted. How unlucky for him. As he leaned in, damp whiskey-stained lips pressing against the shell of her ear, she managed to lean into it and not shudder, using the opportunity to slip the drug into his glass.

Holding his attention captive until it fully dissolved, she mimicked his attempt at seduction and whispered, “Why don't we finish these, and you can show me your suite?”

Like a moth to a flame, he smirked like a cat and nodded, “I thought you'd never ask.”

Giving a girlish giggle that made her want to kill herself, she picked up her glass and threw back its contents, shivering as it burned her throat and warmed her from the inside out. The slickness between her thighs quickly became irritating, and she needed this farce finished to sate it. As her victim downed his drink, she hopped down from her stool and pretended to totter drunkenly on her too-high heels. Her “lover” was quick to take advantage, and this couldn't have been any easier than if he'd simply handed her his wallet. He wrapped an arm around her. His pungent cologne irritated her nose, and she grinned wickedly at the thought of Richy smelling it on her as she was led away from the bar and into the elevator.

He tried to crowd her against the mirrored wall, hands crawling over her like he had the right, and it took everything she had not to knee him in the crotch. Instead, she faked a saucy laugh, laying a hand against his expensive suit and tipped her head toward the cameras. A heavy sigh was his only reply as he relented his mauling and impatiently tapped his foot as they ascended to the penthouse suite. New money. She could smell it on him. Insecurity and shame that he didn't deserve his success hung in the air around him. How pathetically weak. What was the point in having money if he was too ashamed to use it? She would remedy that as soon as she had him safely inside that suite.

The elevator opened into a generous sitting room. Everything gleamed and glittered. There was even a goddamn chandelier. Fine furnishings and fabrics that dripped with wealth draped the walls and floor. He gave her a sheepish grin as he stumbled in before her, and his eyes widened at his sudden lack of grace. She fluttered her eyes at him and urged him to show her the bedroom before he could think too hard and give himself an aneurysm. He needed no further convincing. Following his staggering steps, she eyed the room with an analytical mind. A huge plush bed took up the majority of the ample space, and her dirty mind wandered back to Richy and how he was doing. This had taken longer than she’d anticipated, and he would be foaming at the mouth by now. The safe door was wide open, stacks of cash were visible, and she quickly looked away as he turned to her and flung out a heavy hand, swaying on his feet a little as she took it. Letting him drag her close, she feigned shyness as his roaming hands quickly found her ass and palmed her over the silk.

A slow, weighted blink and a surprised noise was the only warning she got as he slumped to his knees. The dose she had given him was enough for three men, and he barely made one.  She crouched in front of him, gripping his chin tightly and forcing his dazed eyes to look at her. A brief moment of lucidity as he spat her name in an accusation she didn't deny. Nodding, a saccharine smile lit her face as she watched the horror bloom on his face before the lights went out, and he crashed to the floor in a heap of useless overgrown man-child. She moved decisively then. Grabbing one of the shopping bags he'd left lying on the floor, stuffed it with the cash and soon relieved him of his new Rolex.

There were some diamond cufflinks and a platinum tie clip on the nightstand that she had also stolen before she went into his wallet and purloined the cash there too. She thought about taking the credit card but didn't want a trail of purchases to lead the cops to her if they figured out she was helping Richy. Checking on her snoring victim, his phone had fallen from his pocket, and she took great joy in smashing it before she flung it down the toilet. He had nothing else worth taking. His carelessness and newness to the rich life had made it too easy. She locked him in the bedroom, taking his key card before she let herself out the main door and locked that too. He would have to wait for the hotel staff to let him out before they could begin hunting for her. And she would be long gone before then.  

Cursing him and Richy as she trudged down what felt like a million stairs in six-inch stilettos, she knew she would have to cut and dye her hair. It had taken years to grow this long, and yet again, a fucking man had to ruin it. If she hadn't tempted her luck too far already, she would have killed the prick in the penthouse for the distress. The humiliation would have to do until the grim reaper came calling for him. Her mind was a labyrinth of half-formed plans and promises of retribution on her unending journey back to her room.

***

Aylin quietly let herself inside her room. The electronic beep as the door unlocked made her cringe as she spied Richy passed out on the bed. The sheets under him were rumpled. His wrists and ankles were rubbed raw, and she smiled slowly at the mental image of him struggling to get free before exhausting himself and falling asleep. She toed off her heels, tip-toeing over to the bed as a low simmer began in her core. How to wake him? She could simply yell at him. Or, she could do what she had wanted to do for days since he’d started bitching about being cooped up while she got to socialize.

What he didn’t understand was that she hated to be social. Completely despised having to pretend she cared about the things everyone else seemed to take great pride in. But she also knew she had to be seen doing so. People labeled her a loner, a weirdo, when she was alone for what they deemed an inappropriate amount of time. And it wasn’t long before they started paying close attention to what she was doing or saying. Rumors would start. Vicious, nasty rumors with the power to end her reign of terror long before she was ready. No, she had to act the part. Richy had done so for years, not realizing he was doing it, and now he was alone except for her, and he preferred it that way. Two weirdos were worse than one, so they had to make sure they were seen mingling.

Choosing option two, Aylin marched around the side of the king bed and leaned over him, watching him breathe for a moment before she lifted her hand and slapped him. Hard. Right across his face. Richy jolted awake immediately. Dark eyes blurred by sleep and confusion as she smiled sweetly at him. He bared his teeth, eyes narrowing on her as she winked and plopped down on the bed.

“What the fuck was that for?” He demanded, and she did not like his tone. She had come back. He should be grateful, not mad.

“You looked so peaceful. I didn’t like it.” She shrugged carelessly.

“Where the hell have you been? Did you fuck him?”

She gave an unladylike snort, fingers toying with her hair as her nipples hardened and peaked against her thin dress, and Richy’s eyes stuck to them like glue.

“And if I did?”

“I’ll kill you.” He swore, and now she laughed loudly.

He was practically snarling at her now, and she decided to push him further.

“Hmm. And how will you do that when I hold the key to your freedom?” She looked pointedly at the leather and steel cuffs strapping him down, and she saw the defeat in him, but he didn’t back down.

“I can be patient.” He promised, and she rose to her feet, smirking down at him.

He was beautiful when riled, in a way that would turn most off and frighten them. It only made her skin pebble as she shivered.

“I have a better idea,” she said darkly, sliding the straps of her dress down her arms before reaching behind her to pull down the zipper. Richy watched her hungrily as she let it slither down her body and pool at her feet, baring herself to him and delighting as his cock stirred to life.

She had forgone a bra, but the skimpy underwear felt good against her smooth sensitive flesh. He was quiet as she removed that, too, a predator caged as his captor gave him a taste of how Hannah had felt. Though she doubted Hannah had been so turned on, he could barely speak as Aylin swung her leg over his waist and straddled him. This type of power was a potent drug to her, an addiction that addled her mind and drove her to new heights of insanity. Like junk food and indolence, it was bad for her health, yet she didn’t care. Would keep indulging until it killed her or him.

As she leaned forward, the sway of her breasts caught his eye, and she raked her manicured nails down his chest, adding to the myriad of marks already tattooed there. She was marked into his skin, bruised and red. If she left him tomorrow, it would be an age before he could forget her. His blackened soul was the strongest aphrodisiac she had encountered as she felt his cock jump against her ass. The darkness residing in him came out to play as she lowered her mouth and dragged her teeth across his chest, wishing she could taste the wild beating heart underneath. Between her legs, she was soaked, and she knew he felt it as she shifted back on her haunches to stare him down.

“Do you still want to kill me?” She taunted, fingers pinching and pulling on his nipple to see how he’d react. A hiss of pain and a deep chuckle told her he didn’t mind it.

“Undecided.” He bit out.

Humming, she trailed a hand up his torso, wrapping it around his neck and pushing down until his air cut off. He groaned when she let up and bent down, nipping at his lips and darting her tongue inside to play with his as she squeezed his throat again. They were like lit TNT whenever they gave into their primal instinct to tear, bite, and taste. No thought other than the pleasure they could steal from each other. Letting him breathe, a cramping ache in her core too hot to ignore any longer, she reached behind her and grabbed hold of his rigid cock. No foreplay to ease her into it as she lifted to settle him at her entrance, intentionally clenching her inner muscles as he breached her cunt, and she left gravity do the rest.

Head thrown back, and teeth clenched, she reveled in the rough drag of his cock against her taut inner walls. Every hard inch of him stretching her too quickly it hurt them both. Richy's hands were fisted so tightly his knuckles had bleached white, his jaw jutting as he panted, and she bottomed out with a rough gasp. She fell forward as if given a blow to the head, hands scrabbling on his chest as she breathed through the invasion. He was so hard, knocked so deeply she could feel him in her stomach, a torrent of wetness dripping from her as she made small movements to ease herself. Taunting him with the slightest hint of friction until the veins in his neck popped.

Arousal flooded her veins, replacing her blood with flame as she flattened her palms on his chest, locked eyes with him, and slowly, painfully slowly pushed off him. It was pleasure with a serrated edge. Her insatiable obsession to be split apart and used harshly fast took over, and she moved over him until the sting and burn of being rent so abruptly turned to black ecstasy. A warbling moan fell from her as she slammed down, sweat already trickling down her neck as her chest heaved. Her nails cut half-moons into his skin. He didn't complain and urged her to move when she remained still to catch her breath.

Finding a rhythm that soon sent her spiraling, she swirled her hips with each sinuous slide down and felt him twitch inside her. He was too close. Too wound up and pissed off, he’d explode before she could have her fun. That wouldn't do. Ignoring her own need, she lifted him off and laughed as he snarled her name in warning. Crawling up his body, she straddled his head, gripping the headboard before lowering herself onto his waiting mouth and giving him a command he would not ignore.

“Put that mouth to work and make me come, or you won't get to.”

A grunt was his only reply before his tongue dipped into her drenched folds, her thighs clamped around his ears as she whimpered and rolled her hips. She didn't care if he couldn't breathe, not as he flattened his tongue against her clit and lapped at her essence. A carnal growl rumbled through him that she felt between her thighs. He worked her hard. Every flick and dart inside and around her caused her legs to tremble and threaten to give out. It started slow, a ripple of heat from her center, gentle waves of pleasure that made her cry out and plead for more. Then she ignited like wildfire as he devoured her like a man starved. It burned out of control inside her as her cunt clenched around nothing. Release was a song in her molten blood as he chuckled and grazed his teeth over her clit to make her wail like a demon possessed.

Backing away, her body quivered as she glared at his smug smirk, glistening with her wetness, his chin was saturated, and she couldn't resist kissing him. Salt and sweet, heavy on his tongue, and she wanted him to always taste like her, a fierce sense of ownership washing over her as she leaned back and took him inside her again. It was effortless now, so wet and pliant she had no trouble seating him to the hilt and bouncing over him until his face twisted in anguish and desperation. Each time she felt him nearing the edge, she stopped and toyed with his body, clawing at his skin and biting his neck, sucking mouthfuls of his flesh to mark him more. He was a work of art by the time he used the only words she would heed.

“You win. I can't fucking take this. You win, Aylin.” His voice was pained, destroyed under the weight of the tension straining his body. Victory rang like a bell in her head as she rose up, and he slid free of her with a lewd sound that made her smile.

Reaching into the nightstand drawer, she took out the small metal key atop the hotel bible and hurriedly unfastened his hands. She had just unlocked his ankles, her back to him, when her hair was gathered in a fist, and he yanked hard, dragging her across the bed. Whining, utterly delighted at the pain licking over her scalp, she didn't fight back as he let go of her hair and shoved her face down on the mattress. Pressing her sticky thighs together to counter the hollowness eating at the frayed strands of her sense of reality, he was muttering under his breath that she was a nightmare come to life. It was the loveliest compliment he had given her. She knew what he wanted but waited for him to tell her, a show of submission that would piss him off and make him treat her with unmerciful brutality.

“On your knees, ass in the air, and don't fucking argue.” He ordered and gripped her thighs in a bruising hold as she lazily did as told.

Forcing her legs apart, his hand pushing on her lower back to make her arch deeper, she sensed him behind her a second before he entered her in a reckless movement that made her bury her face in the sheet. Keening, she grabbed at the pillows for something to hold onto as he fucked her savagely. The punch of his hips as he gave no thought to her pleasure made her toss her head wildly, a burning ache in her core that made her even more unhinged, and his groans were music to her ears as she fluttered around his thick cock. It was a torment. A delectable agony she would submit to every night so long as he didn't become a risk to her freedom. His lack of care toward her excited her even more. He didn't give a fuck if she liked it or not, he did, and that selfishness spoke in a complex tongue to the poison seeping from her iced-out heart.

Blunt nails scraped over her hips, sweat making his grip slide as he overwhelmed her body. She had turned feral under the onslaught. Lifting her head from the bed to howl like a beast when his hand smacked her ass so hard her teeth rattled, and her cunt clamped around him like a vice. Pleased with her reaction, he did it again, harder and harder, her skin prickling and inflamed as he fucked her to the edge of another orgasm. Madness, her dearest friend, had full control as he reached under her, and between thumb and forefinger, he took hold of her clit and pinched.

He drove into her once, twice, another pinch on that swollen bundle of nerves, and she erupted so forcefully he cried out in shock. Her name ripped from his throat as he slammed into her one last time, and the thrill of his come painting her inside prolonged the torturous waves she was riding. Electricity ran like a current under her skin, every nerve fired, and her skin felt too small for her bones as it stole her wits and breath. It was too much to withstand. Her body spasmed in time with the pulse inside her. Her mind winked out as he slumped over her and flattened her into the bed.

The last thing she remembered when she blinked her bleary eyes open a while later was his claim that he would repay the favor at some point. The bed was a mess of damp sheets tangled around them as he snored beside her. He hadn't bothered to move her from the center of the bed, and he was curled up near the edge, holding onto the sheet for dear life as she sat up and assessed her body. The lingering ache between her legs was heavy and thick, the sinful feeling making her grin as she stood on shaky legs and padded to the bathroom to shower.

She noted a dozen new bruises and bite marks in the bathroom's foggy mirror. A red raised handprint was clear on her ass, and she wore them all like jewelry as she returned to the bedroom and got dressed in dark clothing before she woke him. He wasn't pleased and snapped at her, but they didn't have much time left. The man she had drugged would raise the alarm when the drug wore off, and they had to be far away when he did. Richy moved swiftly once she explained, and she packed her meager possessions along with the money, watch, and other items she had pilfered.

When they were both ready, she grasped hold of his shirt, dragging him down to her level to give him a biting kiss. Wondering where they would go next and what dark, dangerous things they would do to each other once they got there. They left the hotel under a cloak of darkness. The night shift receptionist was snoozing behind his desk as they crept past and snuck out the back entrance. The car they'd rented was nondescript, already fuelled up, and they were soon on the road. They would have to find another soon so as not to test their luck. But as the sky burned red and the sun began its daily salutation, neither cared what the future held. They were good with right now and were determined to make the most of it in their cruel, selfish, and maleficent way. She saw only one ending for their sinister dalliance, but until then, she didn't give a fuck. 

This is either the best or worst smut I've ever written, and I don't know how to feel about that, lol. There will be no in between. Like marmite. You’ll either love or hate it. Let me know if you like it!

Part 3: Flesh & Blood

#dark smut #smut #rough smut #shameless smut #duskwood richy #fanfic #duskwood #duskwood fanfiction #duskwood fandom #duskwood everbyte #duskwood game #spicy content #duskwood mc #duskwood smut #duskwood fanfic #duskwood family #dark romance #the bad guys #wordy #pain and pleasure #hot as fuck #why do i do this to myself #female writers #unhinged #fanfiction #feeling spicy #spicyromance #romance fanfiction #original character #duskwood oneshot

[7rus7m3]

BIG 101 PENTAGON THEORY // SPOILERS FOR CANTO VI, DEMIAN (book), LITTLE PRINCE (book), LEVIATHAN, LIBRARY OF RUINA, a little bit of Divine Comedy too

RG - Red Gaze, PT - Purple Tear, LP - Little Prince, DC - Divine Comedy. Grammar mistakes can appear due to me not being very fluent in English.

So… After the new Demian scene appeared, I found it convenient to finally unleash my Dante=Sinclair pentagon theory, based on some assumptions I made from reading the source books of all of these characters. Before I start, I need to aknowledge some other things:

1. I don’t find this theory as something that actually will happen, since it may be based on my own biased opinions towards some of the characters included

2. Most of my assumptions are made through reading into intertext of the source books and how it would look more cool to potentially appear in a game. PM interpretation of books may be completely opposite from mine, so ig we will see how close I was later

3. I don’t use other sinners for my theory, since most of them are not marked, can’t use shin from what we know and/or mostly have finished self-centered story. The only one that probably will be added to pentagon is Faust, since her source is too important for Hesse as a writer and the motif of soul duality exists as an important topic in both Demian and Faust books. Also she knows too much about the Stars from what we can see in the prologue and later in her dialogues with us.

Part 1. Purple Tear

PT=Demian’s mother feels like canon already for me, but maybe just because I discussed it too much with my friends. So the main point of this theory is that Demian and PT appear to have the same main themes as characters and have similar powers, so him being Iori’s son will be natural. For example, the snake theme being introduced to us with Iori’s snake eyes in Leviathan manga or with the blue snake representing Demian on LCB Sinclair art. Multidimensional traveling powers, Shin being mostly PT’s disciples thing etc etc. Also Demian had purple eyes on his first promotional art and even though it was changed later, it is still an important thing that was planned by PM. For me it's an obvious moment for a lot of reasons, but in reality they just feel like relatives and the more you think about it the more it becomes obvious. 

As Demian’s mother, she becomes frau Eva naturally and potential Sinclair milfhunter’s interest. 

Also I believe in Iori as a higher-up person in Limbus Company assumption. As a person, who sees countless possibilities, her choices on sinners of LCB feels natural and the fact that Vergilius out of all people becomes our guide just approves it to me. 

So I added ‘Demian’ to her as a source just to start, but we can also add ‘Little Prince’ as I believe that she also represents the snake from the start of Prince’s adventure on Earth and his end on it. The Snake claims to have some sort of space-traveling power after all and while representing Birth and Death of Prince on Earth, she's a good pick for a mother figure representation.

Part 2. Red Gaze

Not too much to say here, but the obvious things we know. The Shin user triangle, even though Verg and Demian probably ain’t ever met each other once, still exists in the context of this theory. We can or can not draw a line between Demian and Vergilius, but I like to do it for the sake of making a point how they both are PT’s disciples. 

The christmas trauma line here is mostly for funsies, but it’s obviously not a coincidence on how the whole Sinclair’s family killing incident happened at the same time as Vegilius’ orphanage incident and how both suspicious shin users just watched them suffer to mentor them later. 

Dante and RG are connected through Divine Comedy, which is told directly from the game. 

Part 3. Demian

The most interesting and most intertextually written character in the game.

Sinclair being the rose became more believable to me than him being the fox after a new scene, but I still think both can be true. As we know from Demian book - Sinclair is final destination of Demian’s journey, from whom Max parted for unknown reasons (basically not answered his letters while doing his own fun stuff ig) and even tried to adapt to live in the world ignoring his marked nature (the “I am actually a lieutenant” scene in the 7th chapter). He is meeting Sinclair at first to part with him later just to end up becoming a metaphorical part of him at the end, probably dying physically. The same happens with Prince and Rose relationships in the LP. From them meeting suddenly to part later because of Prince’s complicated feelings to Prince finally coming back to her after learning how to love her and realizing her importance for his existence as a person in the metaphysical form, leaving his physical body behind. The story is too similar for Sinclair to not be Rose. The main counterargument here is the fact that we don’t know when Demian started his journey and Sinclair quoting dialogue of LP with fox. I still believe that Sinclair-Rose theory is more likely though, but Sinclair-Fox is still leading us to doomed yaoi in the end.

The Demian-Beatrice part comes from ‘Demian’ as a source too. Sinclair met Beatrice as his muse and basically Demian’s replacement as an image of his own ideals in life, she became a reason for him to stop his self-destruction path. Young love for Sinclair here is more of a reason to keep moving forward to become a better person than actual loving feeling. She is a mythological muse, but not a romantic interest fully. And in an attempt of engraving her image (haha engraving aspect), he accidentally draws Demian instead. We can put it as a direct equation of her to Demian and as a method of inserting an androgynous archetype into Demian’s character. I think of Demian-Beatrice as a cool way to introduce us to Paradiso later with him being our new guide instead of Vergilius. It will become a more logical guess later, in the context of the main part of this theory.

Part 4. Dante and Sinclair

So… Dante is a book version of Sinclair with part of Demian’s soul inside him theory… The main thing from where we should start to think about this is the whole number dilemma within Sinclair’s coat. He should’ve been the 10th Sinner before Dante appeared, but then got changed to 11th. Which is funny since 1.0 and 1.1 is a funny version number calambour. So, questions that theories answers:

1.Demian having sudden interest in Dante and giving him riddles that mostly answers the nature of more of a Demian himself as a person, than giving Dante actual usable information

2.Dante seem to have mark 

3.”What will become of me who have been robbed by me”

4.Sinclair is the only sinner we resonated with out of his Canto

5.Sinclair Canto only focusing on the first two chapters of the book, but not taking it as full. His Canto takes not even half of a book, but focuses on a really small part of it. Moby-Dick is a pre-story in Canto V, same basically for Canto I and Canto IV, we are close to the ending of CaP in Canto II and we have seen the true ending of WH in one of the Mirror Worlds with Cathy and Hareton.

6. Why they aren't changing numbers on Sinclair's coat for six Canto already

7. How Demian is able to understand us and how we are able to deeply understand Demian's feelings

8. Why we have any connections to Demian in the past and why we owe him a drawing of all things (Sinclair was a painter in the book)

9. Star is the main motivation of Dante

10. The whole engraving aspect thing. Again, Sinclair was a painter in the book and used drawing as a way to analyze his instinctive feelings

11. Dante having religious motifs and powers associated with either Tree of Life or Tree of Knowledge. Sinclair’s EGO “Branch of Knowledge” naming based on that

12. Dante’s White Night motifs. White Night is basically an Antichrist, but also a God, which connects it with the concept of both god and demon and connecting it with an Abraxas

Maybe some other questions are answered too if you think about it for a little. This is just a very solid assumption that will explain why Demian is so important for us and why Dante seems like a descendant of the Star in the prologue. As a character having another big source book I also believe in him having his own Canto and if he is a part of Dante's character then we should have the duo Canto for both Dante and Demian.

Main thing is how it happened. It's mainly fanfiction from now on. We know that there are Mirror Worlds where the whole book plot is already happened at some point (Cathy and Hareton scene in C6). So one of these basically is the one where Sinclair journey happened some other way. Maybe it was the one, where Demian helped him before the whole Kromer situation happened. After that moment in book Sinclair fastly falls back to his family and stops questioning their beliefs, so in my theory he could after all have a prosthetic operation that he was destined to before incident. That way we have his life going more calmly and as a son of prosthetic factory owner he could become a big and rich person. That would explain why Panther, Lion and Wolf were very excited over killing him. So, Sinclair of this universe goes over his way just like book Sinclair and participate in the whole June-985 thing. What else happened in June? World War 1 start. Sounds stupid, but WW1 is the main thing to change the world in Demian as a book. So the start of new world is destined to be in June-985 in the City setting, which represents WW1 starting in the Real World. The whole thing happens, and Demian either dies or merges with Sinclair to become some sort of part of him. To prevent the whole June-985 thing from happening, Sinclair travels back in time (which basically not the same, but another Mirror World) using Golden Bough and tries to engrave something that is a key to preventing the whole mass death thing. Limbus World Demian is pissy with Demian from future trying to stop the new World from happening, so he confronts us, but tries to do it in his own way. That way Dante is Sinclair from future from other mirror world and is partly a Demian himself.

In the LP, Pilot also is a child-like adult, really similar to Little Prince in some way. I personally like to read his journey with Prince as a metaphor for himself maturing and letting go his childish side, which Is again connects Dante to Demian.

So, Dante=other Sinclair=Pilot=partly Demian.

#limbus company #limbus theory #sinclair lcb #demian lcb #lcb #dante lcb #vergilius lcb #iori lor #library of ruina

[sasukesun]

https://www.tumblr.com/sasukesun/725726561326841856/i-find-it-annoying-as-cuck-when-people-act-like?source=share

I saw this and agree and need to rant. Yes she's came to appreciate his strength and wants him to achieve his dream yet at the same time Naruto does anything Naruto she yells and acts like she's better than him and uses violence not just for comedy reasons. Someone said that Sakura just mothers Naruto which is not the case she just acts like that since she thinks she's better.

There were only just a few moments when Sakura's anger towards Naruto's actions was justified but her violent outbursts in reaction are not justified no matter the case. Like when Naruto made fun of Lee and Sakura just straight up punched him for doing that despite she did the same before.

She come to respect Naruto's strength like the villagers did but not Naruto as who he is. She is just like the other villagers. Which is why no one understands him and despite wanting to help him out they do so in the wrong ways or say wrong things to him. They see him as a hero or future Hokage so do things to help the hero they want him to be but not Naruto the person who he is.

Naruto didn't call villagers out for their bad mistreatment of himself so why would Naruto call Sakura's behavior out? Even during her confession when she said exactly what Naruto was afraid of that idea that people only like him because he's now a hero he didn't even call those words out he just told her not to lie about her feelings towards Sasuke.

Naruto and Sakura as best friends never works. Sakura as the smart mother hen never works. Because this is not who they are. She is like the rest of the villagers. Only difference is she was closer to Naruto in that they were on the same team and since Naruto is the main character he wants everyone to get along. There was never an indication where Sakura made correct observation about Naruto as a person. She always related his actions to herself whether it was about bringing Sasuke back or thinking Naruto would accept that very bad confession. At the end she respects his Hokage hero dream and that's it. She does not understand him and I don't know how Naruto puts up with it all.

i feel bad when people write me rants and i only reply “i agree” but… i totally agree! i’ve talked about naruto and sakura’s relationship many times before, and i surely mentioned that sakura is pretty much like any other konoha ninja, naruto basically has to prove himself and earn her respect, she does not see him as a person, even her fake confession is about sasuke being a criminal and naruto being a hero. and even among konoha people, naruto has better relationships with other characters like sai, shikamaru and neji, those characters have supported naruto more than sakura and there is also the fact that she resents him for being more capable than her and, of course, getting sasuke’s love and attention. i don’t know if sakura really believes she is better than naruto, she seems very aware that she can’t do much, but she is insecure, so she tries to compensate that, that’s why she brags a lot, but she ends up being all talking and no doing. i also agree with what you said about her violence, it’s nowhere near justified… she punches naruto because sai called ino beautiful like- and it wouldn’t make sense of naruto to call her out for her bullshit when he doesn’t hold anyone accountable for how they treated him… maybe that could be the case if kishimoto didn’t make him so repressed, but i understand why that was never written. again, i agree with everything you said.

#ask #anonymous

[imagitory]

Just for the record, guys? I've seen the new Haunted Mansion movie multiple times now, and it's really good. Like -- really good. It's like the filmmakers took into account all of the problems I had with the Eddie Murphy film after my mum and I first saw it in theaters back in 2003 while working on their project.

In the Eddie Murphy film, I felt like just about everyone -- excluding the actors playing Edward Gracey and the butler -- were miscast. The child actors weren't that great, the two servant ghosts weren't that memorable (aside from Wallace Shawn reminding me of Vizzini the entire time), Jennifer Tilly as Madame Leota was as terrible of a casting choice as Kristen Chenowith playing Maleficent (sorry, Descendants fans, but -- what??), and Eddie Murphy himself...yeesh. Worst of all though, the woman playing Eddie Murphy's wife was a wooden plank of an actor, which made it so hard to engage with her when she's arguably one of the most important characters in the narrative.

In this film, just about every single person is perfectly cast. Every last one. Danny DeVito, Rosario Dawson...even Owen Wilson surprised me! Chase Dillon as Travis...that kid is going places, I'm saying it now! LaKeith Stanfield in particular was absolutely stellar: I even cried at one point, watching his performance, when I almost never cry at movies. Even Jared Leto -- who I admittedly don't know if I would've hired, given his history -- wasn't a bad choice, just as an actor. He certainly gave off "unlikable creep" vibes as the Hatbox Ghost -- so hey, I guess we have type casting, at least! I admittedly wouldn't have picked Jamie Lee Curtis to play Madame Leota, but she was still an infinitely better choice than Jennifer Tilly.

In the Eddie Murphy film, it leaned a lot on slapstick and pop culture humor, as opposed to any of the macabre dark comedy that the Haunted Mansion ride is known for. Eddie Murphy's style of humor really just didn't fit in with the tone of the original ride and the objectively beautiful Gothic sets the filmmakers had designed.

Yes, admittedly, the new Haunted Mansion movie uses pop culture references too (often in the form of rather forced product placements), but I won't lie, they still got a chuckle out of me, particularly since they weren't the only source of humor in the film. There were snappy retorts, cynical asides, subverted expectations, and -- of course -- dark humor, on tone with the ride. One rather funny bit ends up involving Ben and Father Kent trying and failing to convince elderly Bruce not to come to the Mansion after the old man says he's having heart surgery the following week, and later on, Bruce gets the particularly macabre one-liner "I'm too old to die!" right as he's being thrown in front of a speeding truck. We have Bruce cracking a joke to offer comfort during a really heartbreaking scene, rather than just to divert attention away from Ben's grief. We even have the rhyming headstones at one point!

The Eddie Murphy film focused way too much on Eddie Murphy's character being a "bad" father for working so much, rather than the way more interesting ghost story about Master Gracey and Elizabeth. We also get almost no references to the Haunted Mansion-canon characters aside from "Master Gracey" and Madame Leota.

In this new film, the backstories and personalities of the human characters tie INTO the story line with the ghosts, rather than distracting from it. Ben's dealing (very badly) with the grief of losing his wife Alyssa, which makes him particularly vulnerable to the Hatbox Ghost's machinations. Gabbie and Travis are similarly coming to grips with the loss of their husband/father. Travis is also having to contend with being the new kid in town and not having any friends while living in this haunted house that makes both things even harder. "Father Kent" gets hired to do an exorcism for Gabbie and Travis, only to get trapped by the ghosts himself, when he's not even a real priest, but he ends up using his own skill for persuasion and his strong emotional intelligence to bring in the other people they need to stop the Hatbox Ghost. Bruce has been obsessed with the lore surrounding the Mansion and similarly haunted houses for years, which makes him a valuable resource for exposition about the Mansion and later about the Hatbox Ghost's backstory. Harriet, as the resident medium, not only serves as the main combatant force against the Hatbox Ghost at the end since she has the power to banish him, but she gives great exposition about how our world fits in with the spirit world and this universe's "rules" about how they relate to each other. I kind of miss any real use of the Ghost Host, and I admittedly don't love this film's interpretation of Constance Hatchaway, since in the ride she's much more greedy and conniving, rather than just a flat-out maniac (plus, I'm sorry, but the story has both a ghost who chops people's heads off and another ghost who lost their head via decapitation and didn't connect their backstories together??) -- but we still have WAY more love for both the Disneyland and Walt Disney World's incarnations of the ride in this film than in its predecessor. There are even references to the creepy wallpaper and the bat-gargoyle stanchions in the queues!

And then there was my biggest gripe with the Eddie Murphy film -- that at the end, the curse is broken and all the little ghosts are "set free," leaving the "Haunted Mansion" largely abandoned. You know -- when the whole POINT of the Haunted Mansion is that it's filled with 999 happy haunts who want to be there? It'd be like ending a Pirates of the Caribbean film with Captain Jack Sparrow joining the Navy! Yeah, screw that -- this new film has their ghosts stay and make themselves comfy alongside their new living residents. Talk about an awesome fantasy for kids -- I would've loved living in a house like this Mansion, full of fun happy haunts who host rocking parties every Halloween!

But yeah -- I wouldn't say this film is perfect, of course...but if you're a fan of the Haunted Mansion ride, and want a film that captures its sense of creepy, Gothic beauty and dark humor without being needlessly gory or graphic, there's a damn good chance you'll love this. I know this movie should've been released in October and it's not really the "spooky time of year" right now, but please consider giving it some support in theaters, where the actors and writers who deserve your love will get a larger piece of the profit pie for their hard work than when films go to streaming.

#haunted mansion #haunted mansion (2023) #disney #reviews #the haunted mansion #opinion #analysis #seriously though this is why the film was released now -- we all know disney's trying to plug it up the wazoo on disney+ for halloween #and yeah again -- writers and actors get paid much less for streamed films than from box office totals :I

[dionysus-complex]

hello! I read you're "predominantly a Romanist" so I'm not really sure if you can help me but I have this question bugging me for weeks and I thought some clarity from people more expert than me could probably be insightful, so here's the tea: many generations of Italian high schoolers have been taught that Sappho was the headmaster of some sort of college (the term used in lit history books is "thiasus", but I'm 99% sure this is some wild anachronism, and that if such institution even existed it was certainly not called that); according to Ye Olde Books, this thiasus was some sort of bon ton academy to prep young girls for womanhood and marriage, and Sappho's homoerotic poetry must be therefore viewed through this "socratic" lens. Herein lies the issue, that while there seems to be no ancient evidence to prove or disprove this fact, every Italian schoolbook I've stumbled upon either in high school or university never provided a source for this (they all mention the Souda which is problematic in itself, but even there it's only said that her pupils were so and so and so, not that she was actually the head of any formal institution). Plus, looking over on wikipedia, the Italian one takes the thiasus claim at face value without even giving a source (again), while the English wikipedia goes at a length to explain that this idea has no historical grounds and it's just a xix century suggestion. I've even stumbled upon this Maximus Tyrius rhetorician from the second century and he quotes Sappho's views on love and the women she loved, without explicitly saying they were her pupils or part of an academic circle.

So, here's my question: is this concept actually still taught in the Anglo world, and is there any substantial evidence for it? Is it just a weird little straightwashing lie that is still taught in my home country to try and justify any homoerotic reading of the Lesbian, or is there possibly any truth in it?

Sorry for the long ask but I'm going kinda insane here, and i thought one thing i could do is hear from some non Italians cause it's clear to me that all Italian texts are more or less a copypaste of each other on this subject; if you could please tell me anything about this I'd be so thankful, thanks a lot xoxo

Hello! It's been a minute since I've been seriously engaged with Sappho scholarship, but this is something I am familiar with.

The short answer is, no, as far as I know there is no real ancient evidence for it and the concept has generally been regarded as debunked in English-language scholarship since the 90s. The oldest source we have for the concept is the 10th c. CE Souda, which (as you mention) is deeply problematic for a variety of reasons, and it seems probable that the idea of Sappho's thiasos originates with one of the many Greek comedies about Sappho (Sappho was something of a stock character in Greek comedy, with the joke typically being her excessive (hetero-)sexuality rather than homosexuality). The idea seems to have been picked up by 19th century German scholars, and the argument for it relies on the testimony in the Souda along with apparent parallels between Sappho's expression of homoerotic desire and the homoerotic language between women and girls in Alcman's parthenaia, which do have a context of chorus trainer/trainee relationships. However, there is probably no good reason to assume that Alcman/Sappho parallels make for a strong argument considering that the texts come from entirely different city-states and social contexts. I do know that Renate Schlesier has argued for a much less heteronormative and IMO more plausible version of the thiasos idea, which is essentially that the circle of women mentioned in Sappho's poetry is not any kind of "academy to prepare (aristocratic) young women for marriage" but a circle of enslaved sex workers/courtesans (hetairai). Schlesier cites the fact that the female personal names mentioned in Sappho's poetry are all names that would typically be associated with enslaved women and hetairai, at least prior to the Hellenistic period, and considering that the symposium was probably the main venue for the performance of erotic lyric in antiquity this seems to make a good deal of sense.

I won't recommend the article that essentially debunked the thiasos idea on account of its author being a truly awful person for unrelated reasons, but I would recommend this excellent Eidolon piece on "Re-Queering Sappho" as well as Melissa Mueller's 2021 chapter "Sappho and Sexuality" in The Cambridge Companion to Sappho (link here, but probably requires a library subscription) which covers the history of the idea very well and presents a compelling reworking of the idea of Sappho's circle in a way that embraces rather than resists the queerness of Sappho's poetry.

#sappho #asks

[synergysilhouette]

An alternate take on "Raya and the Last Dragon" (2021)

I think the movie was good in concept, but the execution had me wanting more.

Take inspiration from different SEA countries for the 5 parts of Kumandra, but if you want to include more SEA inspiration, perhaps have certain cities between the countries that have a lot of cultural diversity, with Raya's home in Heart being one of those cities. Maybe Heart is Vietnam, Fang is Indonesia (with Malaysian and Bruneian influences), Spine is Myanmar, Talon is Thailand (with Cambodian and Laotian influences), and Tail is the Philippines. I'd probably also incorporate Fang's orange color into their fashion rather than the creme color--or just make red their color instead. And maybe make Spine's color blue and Heart's color an emerald green in order to differentiate them from each other more; I thought of making Heart the one with blue colors as an indication of Raya and Sisu's bond, but I felt like it was too much Main Character Syndrome, so I wanted to let other lands be special too. It's also noted that each land used their gem piece differently; Fang's cleverness allowed them to become culturally advanced (which includes their modern fashion/hairstyles after the time skip), Spine used it to gain strength to protect themselves and eventually conquer the other lands, Talon used it to boost their economy, becoming the source for many materials and products hard to come by in Kumandra; and Tail has developed immunity to harsh conditions, evolving their mercenary skills. Heart is the only one who's stayed more or less the same since they haven't really used the gem, fueling animosity towards them.

2. Focus on one large city. I may be alone, but I'm not big on "travel stories" because you're only in each land for 10-15 minutes and you don't get to fully explore it. Having the film take place in a major city with all the leaders (and their gem pieces) together would allow you to flesh out the world and cultures a bit more without losing focus or rashly characterizing each land. It'd also allow us to know more about the chief leaders.

3. Show Namaari's dedication to Fang being out of love rather than seemingly out of selfishness. At the beginning of the film, very few people can sympathize with Namaari for her betrayal, and giving her more development would be great.

4. Make Raya more stoic and contemplative. If I recall correctly, they gave her swagger later on in development, and I feel like it undermines the trauma and distrust she has, especially since it feels like she doesn't express full anger with Namaari until after Sisu's death.

5. Villain/Curropted Namaari. I like the idea that Namaari serves as an Azula-type villain who's much sneakier and manipulative. It's only when her mother is turned to stone halfway through the movie that she realizes she isn't ready to lead and questions the decisions made around her, particularly because the last dragon is following Raya. She doesn't immediately become a BFF to Raya; she now becomes a neutral figure, protecting Fang but not necessarily harming other lands, observing and following Raya to see if her cause is just and if she has a solution that will not ruin Namaari's empire in order to restore peace (I love her concept art--except for the bionic arm; too sci-fi/western vibes).

6. Keep it serious and dark, with minimal comedy. The original film doesn't really feel as serious as it should be because Sisu and other characters are too humorous. Along with this, make Sisu more wise and sage-like, even if she's the youngest of her siblings.

7. Make it a musical; either the characters themselves would sing, or SEA singers could sing to represent the characters' thought process, kind of like if you used "The Gift" soundtrack for "The Lion King." (Edit: I made a fanmade song list for this!)

8. Give Sisu a more mystical design. Her concept art had the right idea--more of a naga-like appearance as most SEA countries have been Indianized rather than Sinicized like Vietnam (which I've heard was the inspiration behind Sisu's finished design). I'd also make her more of a mother figure to Raya given that her own mother isn't alive--or maybe she is; maybe she's from another tribe and left Benja when she realized he wasn't from the same land as her, abandoning Raya and seeing her as a mistake.

9. Raya's aids--Since Raya isn't leaving Heart and the entire village isn't turned to stone, I like the idea that she builds camaraderie with two members who serve her. There's Cadeo, an intellectual who's much more even-tempered than Tong and Buon, and Hoa, a young woman who's optimistic and hopeful, a stark contrast to the sobered perspectives of Namaari and Raya. Given the story relies on Raya's cooperation with people of other Kumandran lands, Cadeo and Hoa are moreso supporting characters, but are still frequently present in the story to give Raya support.

Referring to #1, I wanted to provide a visual aid for the inspiration for the characters (since I can't draw):

I've seen GORGEOUS art of the timeline of Vietnamese fashion by lilsuika on deviantart. I'm unsure if I'd want to take from post or pre-Sinicized Vietnam, though. Post-Sinicized Vietnam feels like it'd be the most familiar for the audience and kinda imply that self-righteous image the other tribes have for Heart (given how they're dressed like they run an empire), but Pre-S Vietnam flows better with the tribal culture of Kumandra.

For Namaari, I was inspired by Shinonon's Heavenly Smile's art on Instagram of a Central Javanese woman, as well as modern Indonesian fashion I saw on Pinterest. Just add Namaari's haircut and make the fashion orange.

For Tong, I like the idea that his design is an ode to Shan Yu, as well as being a bit more proportionate (his upper body is bigger than his lower body and feels almost cartoon-y; no offense to people built like that IRL). I also see John Gyi on ArtStation's art of a Burmese warrior as inspriation (albeit red instead of blue).

For Boun, I took inspiration from the Mandaya tribe of the Philippines from Jme Faronda's art (albeit I'd make it yellow). IDK if Tail--or any of the other Kumandran lands--would represent one IRL tribe or ethnic group within their respective countries, though.

IDK if kids Noi's age dressed like this in medieval Thailand, but I took inspo from traditional Thai clothing. Take your pick (and make it purple).

Bonus: Some people have criticized East Asian actors playing SEA roles. I personally don't fully understand, but as an alternate, I suggest Michelle Yeoh (Virana), Brenda Song (Namaari), Ali Wong (Sisu), Mark-Paul Gosselaar (Benja) and Francois Chau or Dave Bautista (Tong). These are just a few examples, since I don't know many SEA actors off the top of my head.

#raya #raya and the last dragon #disney #disney animation #sisu #namaari

[bigshepherdrascalmug]

The FNAF movie just came out, and honestly what is WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?? We have been waiting for this movie for years, with this amazing confusing lore and all I am seeing is people shitting on this movie?? And the things they are saying don't even make sense as to why "it's bad" 1 a person says it has too much story, then another one says it has too little, other says the acting is bad, then the other says it's decent, then the other says it's kind of scary than the other is like is cringe. Like?? C'mon... Why can't we just have nice stuff without people just ruining it??

It was like this with the Sonic Movie, Mario Movie, and now with FNAF, like can't we please have an adaptation that the fans and not so much fans enjoy without animation critics and critics on YouTube and critics in general giving their "I think is bad, because yada, yada, yada"

Seriously maybe you're just too old for the movie, or is not for you, or you just don't get it because is a franchise you don't know much about? Sure could they have been aimed at more than just the fans of these franchises? Yeah, they could, but there could be a risk of either it being bad or falling somewhat into the problems with the lore and etc, I per example didn't like the fact that Peach was this more proactive protagonist in the movie, even though now I am okay with that and think that her character is fine for what it is and makes sense kind of... Like, seriously just let people enjoy sfuff... I am so tired of people complainin all the time, just be quiet for once, and let me enjoy things without saying I am wrong or crazy. Yeah, the movie is meh, and kind of not 1000/10, but FNAF was never a serious franchise it was ALWAYS a horror comedy, like ALWAYS and I am glad I am seeing that stupidity on screen with the story actually being explained for once instead of me or anyone else having to search for it; besides this is the 1st movie, when it's probably gonna have at least 1 or 2 more so please chill out.

Also, maybe you don't like it because the movie is not for you, there are some things that are made for a target audience in mind, and that's okay; while others try to say that they are not made for everyone as a way to justify that they are not bad you got it wrong (because yes, there are these types of movies), and as a person that likes when the adaptation is faithful to the source material, and loved the Jumanji movies, Sonic 1, Mario, etc, and actually really likes Horror Comedy, I say you guys need to chill and are probably not understanding the movie or the genre right; since FNAF is not horror but COMEDY HORROR and YES there is a difference, and the moment you acknowledge that, is the actual moment you can critically analyze the movie, since is pretty unfair for you to complain about a horror movie for not having romance or a romance movie because nobody died by a serial killer or something like that considering they are completely different genres, unless these points have some correlation to the plot or something but meh just me.

#this is making me go insane #seriously stop #fnaf movie #fnaf the movie #just stop ruining people's happiness #just like the mario movie #i hate it here #fnaf #five nights at freedy's the movie #five nights at freddy's

[moviemunchies]

I’m struggling to come up with a coherent review, but I’m going to do my best!

You guys probably know by now that I’m a big fan of animation that pushes itself out of the usual styles. And while it’s been ages since I read the original comic, I was eager to see it adapted into animated form.

In a science-fantasy kingdom, run by the Institute, Ballister Boldhart, a commoner who would be a knight, is framed for murder and is branded a villain by the media. He only wants to clear his name and get back with the kingdom’s champion, but the young (or is she?!?) shapeshifter Nimona attaches herself to him as his villainous sidekick. Together they uncover the conspiracy to frame him, as well as reveal more of Nimona’s own history and how it ties to the history of the kingdom.

The film has gotten a lot of attention for its queer content. See, it was originally being produced by Blue Sky Studios (and employees of the studio are listed in the credits), which was owned by Fox. Which was then bought by Disney. They shut down the studio, deciding that having ANOTHER animation studio open wouldn’t be worth the effort and money, and eventually shut down production on this movie, despite it being over halfway done. Annapurna Pictures picked it up and finished the movie, keeping a lot of the already-completed work. More than one source from Blue Sky claims that Disney’s executives were very hard on this movie for featuring a same-sex kiss and LGBT themes, so they locked it down.

Welp it released on Netflix anyway!

I’ve seen quite a few sites and articles refer to Nimona as having “queer subtext.” I suppose that’s not wrong, but in this case I’d argue that the subtext is so heavy it might as well just be considered text. I mean yes, there’s the fact that Ballister is in love with a man, and his happy ending is getting together with him, but that’s just kind of the tip of the iceberg. Nimona’s a shapeshifter, who says she doesn’t feel alive if she can’t change her shape, she refuses to answer the question of “What are you?” other than with “I’m Nimona,” and has an entire society label her an unnatural monster. Heck, the villain declares that she is “a threat to our way of life.” 

It doesn’t really get more heavy-handed than that. I want to be clear that “heavy-handed” doesn’t mean “bad”; I wouldn’t say it’s bad here. “Heavy-handed” is only bad when it’s badly done. But any adult watching the film is going to pick up on what the movie’s saying. It’s not subtle. In a world though that seems to have increasing calls for violence by political players towards people they hate, I think the message of “Don’t demonize people and call for their execution for being different,” is an okay thing for a movie to be preaching.

One thing (if I remember correctly) about the comic I found a bit jarring (but not bad) was the tone shift in the story. It’s fairly light, a parody of superhero/villain stories, until we get to the end and Nimona’s backstory, where it feels very, VERY dark. The movie has a similar tone shift, but I think it handles it better overall. This does not mean the movie’s better than the comic, settle down People Angry About the Idea of Adaptation. I just mean that I think this one aspect is handled better.

I do also like the resolution better! But I don’t want to spoil it. So I’ll leave it at that.

The animation here is an absolute delight. It seems like Into the Spider-Verse opened the floodgates for all kinds of different styles to be tried out in movies. It’s colorful, but limited to a certain range. It’s memorable, and sticks out from other animated movies. Characters can look like cartoons but not look like the same cartoons that we see in a bunch of animated films. It’s fantastic. I know I always bang on about how much I love unique animation but I still love seeing it.

The voice cast is outstanding. Riz Ahmed is able to wring a ton of emotion out of the role of Ballister, while also having fun with him playing the straight man (comedy term! I know Ballister’s not straight) against Nimona. Ahmed’s clearly not having anywhere near as much fun as Chloe Grace-Moretz. Yeah, she gives a great, emotional performance at times, but she’s having an absolute blast in the moments when Nimona is causing havoc in the kingdom. 

I will admit that I was a little disappointed that the “I’m a shark!” line didn’t get more mileage in the movie; it was a running joke in the comic, and I would have liked to have seen it used more here.

Nimona is, overall, very good. Part of me is just happy to see that this finally made it to being a movie, after so many setbacks. If you’re interested in animation, you’ll probably love seeing how this one plays out. You’ll also enjoy this if you’re a fan of the comic, though I suppose there might be someone more familiar than me objects to the changes made in adaptation. I don’t think it’ll present too much of a stumbling block, though.

#Nimona #Movie Munchies #Netflix

[chipsncookies]

this is probably a weird compliment but...

I haven't watched Horizons yet but Spinel looks like that type of villain that you love to hate.

I'm curious about his schemes but ultimately I wanna see him fail and get what he deserves. What does he deserve? Completely depends on his future schemes and character development.

Just by first impressions I'm fully on Team Amethio here. So I may have a slight bias. (though seeing Amethio get what he "deserves" is going to be very very interesting too)

Either way I really need to find a source to watch the anime so I can work with more than I've seen so far. It's so far been very intriguing. The completely different approach of storytelling and less reliance on comedy especially for the villains feels refreshing. And the main Characters also feel nice too. From my impressions Riko is a sweet girl that got caught in the middle of an big adventure but gains friends and a big found family along the way and I predict a huge growth of character on her end as well. Also Pokémon!

You're right i also get that vibe, since ep 1-6 we've seen amethio struggling hard to get the pendant and you can't help but root for him a bit, especially since he got so close but some of his efforts were interrupted by sudden happenstance (rayquaza appearing, for example). And then spinel is introduced as this smug guy who's better than amethio, replacing him in the mission. Viewers who got used to amethio can't help but want to see spinel get knocked down a peg (and seeing the preview he probably is more competent than amethio, which is more annoying 😅) also spinel always have this smug look on his face which is easy to hate lol

I'm also on team amethio and biased, but i think the current plot (being replaced by spinel) is interesting and important for his development. He still hasn't given up on the case, choosing to focus on rayquaza instead.

A lot of people have speculated that amethio will turn to the good side at one point, based on how he's unlike traditional villain (he's very... Polite?), he fights his enemy fairly, he has an inquisitive nature and willing to go against his boss' orders, unlike spinel who followed the boss' every word. It could serve a path for him to diverge from explorers 👀 (something he's kinda already doing)

Idk what will happen to them both but I'm always looking forward to every development.

And yeah, you summarised the story well haha. We got competent villains, engaging mystery, the protags are well written and likable, they learn and develop naturally each episode. The other rvt members are also interesting even though they don't get much screentime. There's a lot to love about this anime!

You can probably find the episodes on most ☠️🦜 sites, last i checked dailymotion also has them (so sad we can't get simulcast with this anime)

#pokemon #pokeani #pokemon horizons #asks #spinel

[rachelkaser]

Stay Golden Sunday: Estelle Getty, In Memoriam

It's been over 15 years since we lost Estelle Getty, the first of the four main actresses of The Golden Girls to die. Let's take time to honor the life and accomplishments of another of the extraordinary women who starred in this show.

Picture It, Sicily...

When I first did an In Memoriam post, at the beginning of 2022, it was because the incomparable Betty White had just died. I wanted to take that moment, more than ever before, to talk about her fascinating life and the work she did, for The Golden Girls in particular. It's impossible to overstate how hard that hit us GG fans -- we were all hoping she'd live forever.

Sadly, all four of main actresses from the show are gone, so I don't have an urgent need to do another post, but I wanted to go over the others' lives just as I did for Betty. As much as we love and adore the characters they play, we shouldn't forget the interesting, extraordinary women who put in the work for our favorite show. And since Season Four features a substantial increase in Sophia time, I felt Estelle Getty was an appropriate choice.

Estelle Getty (whose real last name was Gettleman) is probably the actress about whom I know the least, if only because her career was not quite as well-documented as the other ladies. When the show began, she was the relative underdog of the cast, in the sense that Bea Arthur, Rue McClanahan, and Betty White already had several major TV shows on their resumes.

Getty, not so much -- though it certainly wasn't for lack of trying. She achieved her "big break" fairly late in her life, but she had worked in show business for a very long time -- since her youth, in fact. She was also, like her costars, an outspoken activist, particularly for gay rights and AIDS victims.

That being said, the more I learn about Getty, the more I grow to admire and respect her. Most of the behind-the-scenes tidbits I've gleaned has focused on some of Getty's limitations. She was working at significant disadvantages every time she was onscreen, and she still managed to frequently steal the show from her more-experienced costars.

So this week, let's take a look at the life and career of the woman who brought the wizened wisecracker Sophia Petrillo to life. Who was Estelle Getty, and how did she come to be a star on The Golden Girls?

"Sticks and stones can break your bones, but cement pays homage to tradition."

Estelle Scher was born on July 25, 1923 in New York City, the daughter of Polish-Jewish immigrants. She quickly developed a fondness for theater and comedy, and tried for several years to get her break on the stage in New York. In fact, for most of her career, Getty was a New York-based actress. She married Arthur Gettleman in 1947 and had two sons, and kept auditioning for roles while working full-time and taking care of her family.

According to an account in the Jewish Women's Archive, Getty's friendship with actor-playwright Harvey Fierstein was the source of her most important role pre-GG. When he wrote his autobiographical play Torch Song Trilogy, he wrote the mother character, Ma Beckoff, with Getty in mind, and she originated the role both on and off Broadway. Getty, who was in her fifties at the time, eventually made it to Hollywood while doing the West Coast tour of Torch Song.

I'm not exaggerating when I say the story of Estelle Getty should be everyone's case study for why you should never give up on your dreams. She was in her fifties when she got her break on stage, and sixty-two when she landed the role that would make her a household name. She was sixty-five when she won her Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress.

That's not to say that her career is the only noteworthy thing about Getty. She was also notable for being an advocate for gay rights and for victims of HIV/AIDS -- during the 1980s hysteria, no less. She cared for her own nephew when he was struck with the disease, and later helped open a hospice for victims in his hometown after his death. She also professed to having many LGBTQ+ friends in show business (many of whom she'd sadly lost to the disease) and once said in an interview that one of the lines she drew was never doing "gay-bashing" jokes.

Getty died just a few days shy of her 85th birthday in 2008, and afterwards her family revealed she suffered from Lewy body dementia (which you might recognize as the same illness Robin Williams had at the time of his death). Her costars said, in a melancholy interview, that by the time of her death, she wasn't lucid enough to speak for long and rarely recognized them -- but that they loved and admired her to the very end.

"You're old, you sag, get over it."

When the casting directors at NBC began work on The Golden Girls, Sophia was allegedly one of the first parts they focused on. According to Jim Colucci's Golden Girls Forever, they believed that the role of the spicy octogenarian was going to be one of the hardest to cast -- they weren't even sure what she would look like. Getty had previously auditioned for (and lost) a part in NBC's Family Ties, and casting director Judith Weiner remembered her.

I'm going by anecdotes in the same book, but apparently Getty had all but given up on Hollywood and was only in town for two months in 1985 -- during which time she auditioned for the show. Strangely, Getty's talents at playing mothers almost failed her at this point. She was at first dismissed as a viable candidate for Sophia because, at sixty-something, she was too young. But according to her memoir, she knew she could play older mothers, so she mixed her own background with Sophia's, creating the Brooklyn-Italian woman we all now know.

Tony Thomas was the first of the three producers who saw Getty audition, and he immediately told Paul Witt and Susan Harris that they had to see her. They called her back several times and all three loved her performance, with their only apparent reservation being that she was too young. Getty's manager hired a makeup artist to give Getty wrinkles during one of her auditions to show she could look the part. By the time of her final audition, the role was already hers.

It was during this point that Getty also obtained one of (if not the) most iconic Golden Girls props of all time -- Sophia's bamboo purse. She found it in a thrift store in Los Angeles while putting together an audition costume, and it remained her primary prop for all seven seasons. Estelle Getty may not have been the biggest name they snagged at the time of casting, but she seemed to have committed throughout the process to show how she could play the 80-year-old Italian mama.

Now we get to some of the background on Getty, and the reasons why I admire her so much. In my main SGS recaps, I sometimes complain or ding an episode's rating because Sophia is not in much of the episode. However, I want to note that I know there is a good reason for this: Estelle Getty had crippling stage fright, and the writers and producers frequently pared down Sophia's roles in order to accommodate her.

According to interviews with her costars and the crew of the show, Getty would frequently have trouble with her lines, and would sometimes have to redo them after the studio audience had been sent home. That's also one of the reasons why The Golden Girls never aired a live episode, despite having at least one opportunity to do so. I believe at least some credit has to go to the show's editors for making Getty's performances look so seamless, but most of my admiration goes to Getty for having the guts to give such good work when just doing her job caused her such anxiety.

Betty White also added in an interview that Getty was afraid of death, and was deeply unhappy whenever the writers wrote jokes about death or brought the topic into the show. And, if you know anything about Golden Girls, you know this happened quite frequently. But would you ever be able to tell that from watching the show? I don't think you could.

"Not part of the show, people! Not part of the show!"

Getty's personal history is one of the primary influences for Sophia's character, and it was under her guidance that the "fat Italian mama with a bun" (the producers' words, not mine) became the acerbic Brooklyn-Italian grandmother. Getty's particular kind of humor was honed by years on New York-based stage work and a childhood love of vaudeville, and you can clearly see this in how physical comedy is always a component of everything Sophia does.

Sophia's a complicated character, for all that she sometimes only appears in episodes for a few quick lines. She's witty and feisty, yes, and there's no one who's too high and mighty that she can't knock them down a peg. She has barbs for every single one of her roommates, reminding Rose that she's dumb, Blanche that she's old, and Dorothy that she's single at every opportunity.

Throughout the show, there's a suggestion that Sophia's attitude towards others is in part her way of caring. In "On Golden Girls," she deals Blanche's grandson a solid clock to the cheek when he gets in her face, and Dorothy later tells him that she wouldn't have dealt this blow if she didn't care about him. In "Comedy of Errors," she uses a few well-placed heckles to help Dorothy find her groove when she tries stand-up comedy. As she herself says in "The Heart Attack," she's not an affectionate person and doesn't always show her love in the traditional way, but she leaves her loved ones in no doubt of her care and regard.

Like all the Girls, Sophia will stand up for herself and her loved ones when the occasion calls for it, but notably, she usually does so in subtler ways than the others do. There's no shoving little girls out of doors or calling out of asshole men -- she's not so ostentatious as that. Instead, Sophia is the type to defend her Girls from themselves. The first instance I can think of is in "Joust Between Friends" where she breaks the tension between Blanche and Dorothy and rubs Blanche's nose in it, to boot.

I'll go even further: I think her most awesome moments on the show are when she humbles the others. It's a running gag that Sophia is sometimes pushed out of things by the other Girls, including vacations and outings. Perhaps her best moment was in "Ladies of the Evening," when she not only swiped the Girls' Burt Reynolds tickets, but managed to charm several celebrities, including Burt, in her evening with them -- all after they were planning to leave her behind.

"They had said he would never walk again. He walked."

That said, Sophia was not without her layers. For all her outward acceptance of gay people, such as Jean and Clayton, she's less willing to accept her son Phil's crossdressing. "Ebbtide's Revenge" is the culmination of her intolerance, as she confesses, after much prodding, that she couldn't understand Phil and that led her to alienate him for the rest of his life. Getty struggled with this episode, and eventually put her foot down when the writers expected her to make a joke while Sophia is standing over her son's body in a casket. I think I speak for all of us when I express my appreciation of that particular choice.

There's also the implication that Sophia's wit and acidity are born from a need to protect herself. She says outright in "All Bets Are Off" that her insults are a defense mechanism. This is also apparent in "Old Friends," when Dorothy breaks the news to her that her friend Alvin has Alzheimer's Disease. Sophia at first cracks a joke, then earnestly tells Dorothy that she might be happier not knowing. I've said it's one of the finest pieces of acting in the show's run, and I still stand by that. Getty's performance of a woman going through the stages of grief over such bad news is a heartbreaker.

Sophia's not a perfect human being and she can be unnecessarily mean sometimes: Pretending to be possessed by Rose's dead husband for $20 in "Where's Charlie?" springs to mind. However, Getty played Sophia as being capable of learning and growing. In "72 Hours," upon learning Rose might have AIDS, Sophia initially balks at touching anything she has touched, even marking Rose's coffee cup with an R. By the end of the episode, she's happily drinking out of one such marked cup. I can't imagine Getty being happy about Sophia being the "villain" of the episode, but I hope she eventually understood how important and monumental the episode in general -- and Sophia's growth in particular -- were for the time.

"I'm old. I'm supposed to be colorful."

Let's wrap up this post with a collection of some of Getty's sharpest deliveries in a compilation of Sophia insults:

#golden girls #stay golden #stay golden sunday #sophia petrillo #estelle getty #picture it #very special episode #rose nylund #dorothy zbornak #blanche devereaux #blanche deveraux #rip estelle getty #Youtube

[cherokeecharles]

What U Watchin’ #6: Awkward (2011) IS The Best Teen Dramedy Of The 2010s.

It’s the summer of 2011, The Real World is still premiering, pop culture is still evolving, and you suddenly see a promotion for a new upcoming MTV scripted TV show where a girl who supposedly tried to kill herself and becomes the laughing stock of school because of her unusual situation. Awkward was a teen drama comedy series that aired on July 19, 2011, on MTV. The series follows Jenna Hamilton who has a freak accident that was soon mistaken for a suicide attempt because of a ‘care-frontation’ letter telling her ways to be more popular and not a loser. She then begins a blog where she talks about her boy troubles, friendship issues, and peer pressure. The show went on for five seasons and had 89 episodes and the series finale was on May 24th, 2016.

As someone who has watched the show since its original air date in 2011 and rewatched it as an adult, I could comfortably tell you the source of Jenna Hamilton’s problems throughout the show. The source of Jenna Hamilton’s problems was Jenna Hamilton herself. In the first episode, Jenna loses her virginity to the school's IT boy Matty McKibben throughout the rest of the season he insists on keeping her his secret he figures out too late that he wants to claim her publicly. Jenna went along with it until she didn’t think it benefits her anymore. In the first episode, she also received the ‘care-frontatian’ letter that we figure out later that her mother wrote her. Jenna doesn’t see the letter as something helpful to her. She instead sees it as a cruel attack and she instantly starts crying. I probably was the only viewer at that time who thought that letter was necessary.

The first two ‘suggestions’ became reoccurring themes throughout the series, “Stop being such a pussy.” being first and “Your instincts suck.” which came right after. To say, Jenna Hamilton was spineless would be an understatement. Jenna would do anything for male validation and then turn to her family and friends when they previously told her, this isn’t a good idea. Jenna was very much her self-saboteur, and though she did have moments where she did have a spine, it was short-lived, and she went right back into her old behaviors that I hated. The letter probably was too harsh, especially what she just came back from but if her mother is noticing these things about her, I think that she’d wanted the best for Jenna but didn’t know how to go about it. Granted, the letter was harsh, but the weather was necessary for there to be change and for Jenna to evolve.

Having an amazing main character is one thing, but having amazing supporting characters that we fall in love with is even better. Awkward introduced us to the best ensemble cast throughout the show. Tamara was Jenna’s best friend and right-hand man throughout the show, she often gave Jenna advice and was a listening ear to Jenna, even when Jenna didn’t value what she was saying to her. Tamara was often selfless and put Jenna’s problems ahead of hers and frequently looked for her peer's approval and often tried to fit in the ‘in’ crowd. Tamara was a way better friend to Jenna than Jenna was a friend to Tamara and I’ll always die on that hill. Ming was also their best friend but she wasn’t given many storylines, Ming often was kept in the dark or the last to know what was going on in her best friend's lives but she still chased after the friendship with them and stayed loyal even though they did not value their friendship with her as much as she did with them.

Awkward has also blessed us with the meanest yet likable antagonist in the series. Sadie Saxton was Jenna Hamilton’s nemesis throughout the entire series. They did something interesting with Sadie Saxton’s character, which was making Sadie a plus-size bully, who was also an IT girl. Sadie’s character was known for saying some cruel, but necessary truths to Jenna unprovoked. Sadie was Matty McKibbon‘s best friend, and often looked out for his best interest. Though she did speak her mind she was also observant of what was going on around her and often called out people when others wouldn’t. A lot of viewers often thought that Sadie projected her insecurities about being a plus-size teenager onto others, but I don’t think that was the case. Sadie was well aware that she was plus-sized and I don’t think she had a problem with being plus size, people would often project their feelings about her way onto her, which made her miserable in return. Sadie had no problem, making friends getting a boyfriend, or even academically. I think the characters around her didn’t like how confident she was while being ‘fat’. I’m not one of those people to act like the villain was misunderstood, but Sadie Saxton makes it clear that she wasn’t. Sadie Saxton was a bitch and she owned it and that’s what made people uncomfortable.

It wouldn’t be a teen drama without a love interest plotline that drags out the entire series. Does he want her? Does she want him? Do they want to be together? What happens after? These are often questions that we asked while watching Awkward between Jenna and many of her partners throughout this series, but she always went back to this one particular guy, Matty McKibben. Matty McKibben was Jenna’s main love interest throughout the series he was the guy she lost her virginity to, who was her crush, and he was her first love too. But a reoccurring theme over the series was if Matty was into Jenna, as much as Jenna was into him. Jenna was always the one making the first moves. While Matty would always disrespect her to her face, especially in the first season. Jenna was an embarrassment to him and I didn’t blame her at first for not wanting to be his secret this series Matty learn to accept her eventually, but I still think that he didn’t value her as much as she did him. There was one season in particular where Matty did go the extra mile for Jenna, but Jenna was an asshole the entire season and cheated on him with a guy she just met. Though the relationship had a lot of push and pull I never got tired of it. It was kind of enjoyable to watch who was going to ruin the relationship this time for who was going to chase after the other.

What I loved most about Awkward was how relatable it was. Awkward what is the formula of how to make a perfect teen drama comedies that didn’t need to touch on every sensitive topic but kept it lighthearted so the audience can enjoy. Awkward didn’t have social media cues that current teenage dramas do have. Awkward was the definition of fun, re-watching this show makes me realize that we don’t always have to keep talking about sensitive topics or what’s happening on Twitter to have a relatable show sometimes peoples issues only go as far as having growing pains, annoying parents, or relationship issues that aren’t abusive. TV used to be an escape from reality in people's actual shitty situations not amplified by writers who like to trauma dump onto the audience. Teen shows used to include drama and it would make the audience ’ooh ‘ and ‘ahh’ but nowadays it makes the audience run to Twitter with a think piece on ‘why XYZ character is wrong’ and make a 30-tweet thread about it to talk about for two weeks straight. TV was better when we didn’t have to have a conversation or add extra nuance to what we saw what we saw was what it was and we accepted it as it was.

What do you guys miss about TV? Do you like the extra conversations that we now have? What are some teen dramas that you recommend?

Awkward is available for streaming on Paramount+!

See you guys next post!

Cherokee💓

#whatuwatchin #awkward #mtv #rewatch #show review #show recommendations #black femininity #black womanhood #black woman #black blogger #blogger #pop culture #the real world #tvshows #teen drama #ashley rickards #beau mirchoff #nostalgia #nostalgic #2010s #one direction

[rachelsfav-queer]

I'm actually genuinely curious to know and I don't mean to come off as rude or anything, sorry if I do, but could you explain how Wednesday is a mama's girl? (I saw her more as a daddy's girl than mama's girl.)

Hi! Thank you for the ask! Don’t worry, I don’t find this rude at all!

(WARNING: RANT AHEAD! TLDR AT THE BOTTOM!!)

Honestly, Wednesday being a Mama’s girl isn’t actually my wording, but rather taken from a post I saw quite a few hours before posting, so I really don’t have much of a chance at finding it again lol. Especially since I just woke up 😅

But, anyway! The post I’m referring to both now, and in my other post, actually gets me a little upset (fine… a lot upset, really). I can’t remember exactly but I believe it had pictures of Wednesday cuddling and hugging Morticia from the 1964 sitcom and the caption said (again from what I remember, so not an exact quote) “Wednesday has always been a Mama’s girl, no matter what Burton tries to do.” In reference to the Netflix series, where Wednesday is often antagonistic to her mother and her family, and totally touch-averse.

Now, remembering my post earlier, you might be able to see why it upset me so much. I’m well aware that it probably wasn’t Mr. Burton’s exact goal to have Wednesday be autistic-coded in the Netflix series, but it doesn’t change the fact that she almost 100% is (along with Enid Sinclair being autistic & ADHD-coded). A lot of Wednesday’s behaviors and traits shown through the show are commonly seen in autistic people. Therefore, me and a lot of other autistic people along with some of the Neurodivergent community have been able to see themselves, and connect deeply with this “new version” of the character.

But, unfortunately at the same time, another large part of the fandom for the show and The Addams Family in general, have taken to criticizing this change, claiming that this version is horribly unfaithful to the source material, not recognizing that the Addams Family lore has been changed quite a lot already in EVERY ADAPTATION SINCE THE ORIGINAL COMIC BY CHARLES ADDAMS!!!! And what’s most infuriating to me is that most of these people completely disregard the ways that Wednesday shows her affection to her family in the show. Because it’s totally disrespectful to the point of the Addams Family (kinda like how the animated movies made Morticia’s love for her children conditional).

The point of the Addams Family is to break the typical image of what society deems “normal” and so to try and expect every adaptation of it to be perfectly loyal to the original source material, it kinda defeats the point, doesn’t it? The Netflix series is a modern adaptation that shows this kooky and spooky little family defying the social norms of today, just like the sitcom did back in the 60s and how the 90s movies did the same for their time. Wednesday now reflects Gen Z’s sarcastic and oftentimes dark view of the current world in the most brutally honest way possible, not holding back or coloring over it like most of my generation is expected to do.

And the fact that people refuse to see that? It’s heartbreaking because they’re missing out on a damn good, funny and entertaining adaptation of this classic American comedy series. That’s the problem with today’s chronically online society, everybody watches things looking for something to criticize, LOOKING FOR FLAWS IN EVERYTHING!!!

What happened to watching things, JUST TO WATCH THEM?!? When did enjoying media stop being about having fun and instead turn into this? This, hypercritical behavior of everything that doesn’t fit this impossible standard of perfection?

Anyway! Sorry, I went on a tangent lol!

Tldr: Wednesday being a Mama’s girl isn’t my terminology, but rather from a post here on Tumblr that I can’t find. People have horrible media literacy these days and look at everything two dimensionally. Wednesday from the Netflix series is actually the same Wednesday she’s always been, just adapted for the modern day.

#wednesday 2022 #wednesday series #wednesday netflix #autistic wednesday addams #the addams family #morticia addams #wednesday addams

[bthump]

What is your honest opinion on Femto raping Casca? Do you think that this was necesarry for Casca (or even Griffiths) character? Or do you think this couldve easily been avoided and replaced with something different?

My honest opinion on it is that not only was it unnecessary at the time, it was actively detrimental to NeoGriffith, Casca's, and Guts' characters, and it should either have been replaced with something different, or it should've at least been depicted much, much differently.

It's detrimental to NGriff's character because it literally hasn't affected his narrative, which has been written with the tone and emotional beats of a second protagonist. Obviously some tonal dissonance is intentional since NGriff is a demon god, but we're still supposed to be at least tempted to root for him. Scenes like chapter 285 just don't work if you view NGriff as an unforgiveable demonic entity - his reintroduction to Midland as he takes over is played for triumphant smug comedy lol, not horror, and if you can't view Griffith through moral shades of grey, which adding a petty just-for-fun rape scene certainly makes a lot more difficult, it falls completely flat.

Of course to be fair tone is pretty subjective and highly dependant on the tropes and conventions of a genre and wider media landscape. What doesn't work for an English-speaking readership might work for a Japanese readership just because our media expectations are a little different.

But I also have a giant bone to pick with the way it fucks with the basic themes of NGriff's story too, so either way I have something to complain about lol.

It was completely unnecessary for Casca because the Eclipse rape's sole purpose for her character was to explain why she wasn't around in the Black Swordsman arc, by driving her insane for 20 real life years. Imo almost any plotline would've been better than that for her, including a badass death during the Eclipse. Whatever was going to happen now that her mind is restored didn't have a hope in hell of making up for everything from then til now lol, and frankly it had a good chance of making it worse with the wildly ooc motherly instincts derailing her personality on top of the insanity.

And it's detrimental to Guts' character because it straight up replaces his trauma with manpain to the jawdropping extent that Guts' own rape never comes up again, except vaguely in a flashback, even when he sexually assaults Casca. Like I straight up don't believe that he would have a flashback during consensual sex and then it wouldn't even cross his mind after nearly raping her.

The caveat to that is that I wanted to believe that Guts' own personal pain and trauma would affect the story again quite soon, and that his focus on Casca was being deliberately written as a distraction from his own issues. But even if I was right about that and it's not just wishful thinking lol, it doesn't make the Eclipse rape necessary.

Plus in the Black Swordsman and early Golden Age arcs the source of Guts' rage was that the sacrifice mirrored Gambino selling him to Donovan, which was very good, neat writing that perfectly explained everything about Black Swordsman Guts and made his attitude interesting and complex. Replacing that with the - pointedly cuckoldy - rape scene we got is such a fucking letdown in comparison.

Like to be completely fair you can read a decent amount of depth into the Eclipse rape if you choose to - cycle of abuse, Griffith reversing the perceived sexualized power dynamic pre-eclipse, Griffith negating his rescue of Casca, Casca being unable to escape violent misogyny no matter what, Femto as Griffith’s inner self-loathing externalizing it in a typically monstrous way, rape as the most thematically on point expression of humanity’s darkness, a reference to Guts’ childhood trauma, yadda yadda yadda - but honestly I genuinely feel like most if not all of that is an inadvertant result of rape being such a major part of the story that when you make your climax a rape scene it’s impossible not to draw connections lol.

And none of those connections are necessary to the story imo, and none of them even seem depicted in the actual scene itself, thanks to how badly it’s written and drawn. So yeah, if I could I’d love to just throw it all out.

I think Casca should’ve died with Judeau, and Guts should’ve been enraged by the act of sacrifice, as was implied in the Black Swordsman and early Golden Age arcs, and the story would be neater and tighter and much better without the Eclipse rape as a centrepiece.

The only problem with this is that Guts would need a new post-Eclipse storyline, or the story would have to end at the Eclipse (though honestly, I think that would've also worked great). Like, unfortunately, the Eclipse rape is necessary to the plot of the rest of the story, but like - Miura could’ve written anything, and I’d be happy to ditch the rape scene and heavily alter Guts’ storyline afterwards. No ghost kid, no manly man protecting his helpless infantilized girlfriend, maybe even no entourage of small children while I’m imagining better alternatives lol.

Miura has said in the Official Guidebook interview that he needed Casca to live specifically so Guts wouldn’t be able to make new friends and move on from the Eclipse, which I kind of get honestly. He can’t have 200 more chapters worth of repetitive grimdark blackswordsman content, he has to show some character growth but with something to pull him back when the time is right, presumably. But like - have him run into Griffith again, have someone else betray him and send him spiraling, have Guts unable to fully move on because he’s got a demon dog taunting him and he’s being forced to fight ghosts every night, yk? There were other options here.

#anonymous #ask #thanks for the ask! i tried to be fairly thorough #scene: eclipse rape #theme: critique #theme: misogyny #a #b