#to a whole decade from our 20s to our 30s

[sapphicscholar]

A little over 10 years ago today I asked my now-wife out and scheduled our first date for June 1st cause I had a good feeling about us and wanted an anniversary that was easy af to remember for the future.

Because I’m secretly a little sentimental, I’ve kept the dress I wore on that first date (much changes in a decade!), which I’d photographed to send to a few friends to vet. Today I surprised my wife in it when she got home from work

Also shoutout to Northface for the durable backpack! Survived all of high school and college, half a year abroad (w so much Ryanair travel…), and more!

#personal post #happy anniversary babe #to a whole decade from our 20s to our 30s

[the-conversation-pod]

The Pillars: The Return of OffGun and TayNew

And we're back!

NiNi and Ben bring Shan back to the recording booth to discuss how BL is not just a young man's game. We break down why we enjoyed Cooking Crush and Cherry Magic Thailand so much, and what makes OffGun and TayNew so special.

Come and join us for a healthy mixture of simping, genre appreciation, examinations of conflict writing, and love for queerness in BL.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Intro 00:03:58 - Cooking Crush: A Surprisingly-Good Romcom 00:08:02 - CC: Comedy Ain't Easy 00:16:59 - CC: Dynamite’s Queer Writing and Ten as a Rare Romantic Lead 00:32:08 - CC: Final Comments and Ratings 00:41:14 - Cherry Magic: Beating Expectations and Simping for Tay Tawan 00:54:13 - CM: Relationship Development and the Powers 01:02:15 - CM: Other Characters 01:13:51 - CM: Ratings 01:19:34 - The Pillars: Overall Thoughts

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Intro

Ben

And we're back. Welcome to the second spring outing with The Conversation. Shan is here with us today. Say hi, Shan.

Shan

Hiii.

Ben

And we're going to review the GMMTV pillars.

NiNi

So, Ben, what are the pillars? Let's do a little GMMTV history.

Ben

So when we refer to the pillars, we're talking about the original BL ships at GMMTV. The two we're going to talk about today are Off Jumpol and Gun Atthaphan, and we're gonna be talking about Tay Tawan and New Thitipoom, who've been together four times now — soon to be five.

Shan

I think what's important in the BL context about these two pairs, OffGun and TayNew, is that they have been at this for years at this point, like nine years, I think this year?

Ben

Nine years? Yep.

Shan

They have been at GMMTV, leading BLs, for almost a decade. And they have aged with the genre. They are now in their 30s. It's great, in my opinion, to see them continue to make shows and come back. 

There was this idea that Thai BL was only for very young actors, that actors, once they exited their 20s, would also exit the genre, to move on to, quote-unquote, “mainstream” work that was heterosexual. And I think that these pairs sticking around and coming back to make new shows in their 30s is really important because it just shuts that whole line of thinking down: that BL is only about and for young people, that it is a phase of a career that actors need to quote, “move on from.” And also it gives us the opportunity to actually see adult stories in GMMTV BL, which is not something that we've gotten much of yet. To see stories about adult characters actually played by adults who are the right age for those characters is really refreshing. 

So it's been really interesting to see these pairs come back into the public consciousness and to see that the fans are actually happy for them to stick around. I think that's been pretty cool.

Ben

I think what I enjoy the most about these two pairs coming back together is, both of the shows they're attempting have a more grown-up feel than their previous work. And in both cases, I think the fact that these actors are experienced and know each other really well genuinely benefits the work that they're doing.

00:03:58 - Cooking Crush: A Surprisingly-Good Romcom

NiNi

So let's dive into the first of the pillars. We're going to talk OffGun, and we're going to talk Cooking Crush. So, Ben, what is Cooking Crush about?

Ben

Cooking Crush is about how the most effective way to introduce a new actor at GMMTV is to slide them in around a bunch of other veterans.

Shan

[laughs] That's what it's about for you, for sure.

[all laugh]

Ben

Cooking Crush is a college-set BL about a team of culinary students who are trying to win a cooking competition, and the complications in their romantic lives around them. This show is actually really simple. Like, our protagonist, played by Gun, is named Prem. He lives with his grandmother and his sister. His grandmother runs a formerly very popular restaurant, and he has a goal of helping his grandmother's restaurant become more successful, and he wants to open a chef's table type of restaurant in the future. 

He and his two friends, Samsee and Dynamite, are kind of the oddballs in their culinary school? They're considered the lowest ranked students. They get kind of picked on a bit. Prem is considered kind of clumsy; Dynamite is just really young, because he's kind of a prodigy; and Samsee is just picked on because he's old, because he's pursued three different degrees without completing them. 

They're having some difficulties with school and Prem ends up having an interaction with Ten, played by Off, who is a med student who was a little bit overworked at the time and has accidentally starved himself to be pissy with his dad. The two of them have a very cute moment and a little relationship starts to build between them, originally off of Ten wanting Prem to teach him how to cook more, and Prem basically scamming that man because his little sister lost her tuition money.

NiNi

I think that's a good explanation of this setup. Shan, I want to come to you first. What's your headline on Cooking Crush?

Shan

Ohh, Cooking Crush is a warm hug of a show. And I love it. And it's not perfect. But it left me with such a good feeling and I intend to rewatch it, many times.

NiNi

OK. Well, Ben, I think we got your headline: Cooking Crush is about Aungpao.

Ben

That's about him.

[all laugh]

NiNi

Cooking Crush for me… what is my headline on Cooking Crush? That everybody in this is really good at comedy! Except maybe Gun, who's a little less good than everybody else, but everybody that they put in this is a very funny person, including Gun’s real-life sister, who I laughed my ass off at several times.

Shan

It's surprisingly good comedy. This one has been kind of a weird one in terms of the way it's been received by fandom. It didn't really fit the mood of the moment, I think. I think right now Thai BL fandom is very much paying attention to like, these more high-concept shows that are doing really fancy shit. Crazy visuals, supernatural, and mystical stuff. Cooking Crush is just a sweet romcom that wants to be really good at being a sweet romcom [laughs] and that's kind of it. It has kind of modest goals, but I think that people underestimate how hard it actually is to make a romcom that is actually sweet, and actually funny, and actually makes you want to support the couples in it—and this show succeeds at those things.

00:08:02 - CC: Comedy Ain't Easy

Ben

I think that's probably the biggest thing I would want to highlight about this show. Comedy is not easy. [laughs] At all. Comedy and comedic timing is really difficult to do, and Gun’s admitted that it's not his strongest skill as an actor—that he needs a lot of help from the crew and his cast mates to do comedy well.

Shan

Whereas for Off this is where he thrives, and he hasn't gotten to do it before in a BL.

NiNi

I think that they had the right idea in making Gun’s character Prem sort of the straight man of the ensemble, so to speak.

Ben

A great joke unto itself.

NiNi

[laughs] And surrounding it with a bunch of really good comedic actors who could sort of take up the zip and the zing of it all. Like I think that was the right idea. And I did enjoy, like, all that sort of zany, madcap stuff that was supposed to be happening around him from a writing standpoint, and the shape of what I saw it was supposed to be. I absolutely enjoyed that. My little niggle about it was that the direction doesn't zing enough for me, in terms of how I feel like this was meant to go. 

It's really surprising for me because this was directed by Golf Sakon, who did my nemesis Fish Upon The Sky, but [laughs] Fish Upon The Sky, for all that we could say about it—and trust me, I have said plenty—it was visually interesting, it was zippy, it was well directed from that standpoint. And I feel like Golf’s direction in this was a little bit flat. It didn't have the zing. That sort of is my main complaint about the show, but the show itself is really, really good. I just wanted it to zip a little bit more.

Shan

Yeah, I agree with that critique, NiNi. I think the directing and the editing—[laughs] cannot forget the editing—is definitely the biggest ding on this show. There was some weird stuff going on in the production. The most notable of course being right in the middle of the show when we suddenly had an episode that was mostly reshoots, which was extremely obvious because Off got a haircut after they finished wrapping this show, a very obvious haircut, and then they had to come back and do reshoots. There was some really hinky editing throughout the show, like some dropped beats, some confusing scenes, some flashback sequences that didn't make sense as flashbacks… They were trying to do some stuff in the editing booth that I just think didn't work, and sometimes really undermined the good work that the writing and the acting was doing. 

In terms of overall production, this show was not quite at the level it should have been. In the end, that didn't get in the way of what was a really strong story and really good performances from the cast, and so it still came together well enough, but it's a definite ding.

Ben

I want to talk about the writing portion. Shan, you're usually really good at detailing conflict writing. How about you go through the various major beats of this show and how this show executed them?

Shan

Obviously, we had the main romance, which was between Ten and Prem, and that was a pretty straightforward, simple romance, that actually worked amazingly, because what this show did extremely consistently was it set up all of these really annoying like classic drama tropes for the romance, and then every single time it just knocked them down by having the characters communicate with each other. An obstacle came up for the couple that would normally cause a one- or two-episode conflict. Instead, Ten would insist on talking to Prem about it, coming to some kind of alignment and understanding each other, and they would sail through it. That was kind of the consistent throughline with their relationship, and it was really strong and really lovely to see. 

We also had a side couple romance that was between Fire and Dynamite. That one was a little bit more contentious. It was tied to a couple different things that were going on with Fire, with internalized homophobia, with some struggles that he was having in being his authentic self in his family with his mother. Dynamite was someone who kind of pushed him, and kind of made him aware of the things within himself that he was stifling. And so they had a very adversarial dynamic when the show started: Fire was very committed to kind of trying to be the son that his mom wanted him to be, including dating a woman, and so really fighting against what he was feeling for Dynamite. Dynamite is a great character, who I'm gonna let you talk about more, Ben, but I think their dynamic really pushed both of them along a good character growth arc through their relationship. 

Alongside that, we had a couple big threads about the friendship between particularly Prem and Samsee and Dynamite. They were working together on this cooking school dream, they were trying to get through their classes, they entered this cooking competition and there was a lot of story about them as like a group of people who are kind of considered losers within their cohort, trying to get to a place where they were a good and efficient cooking team who could actually play at the level of some of these other folks that they were competing against. 

We also had another big thread for Ten’s family situation. His mother had passed away some time ago. He had a lot of anger and resentment with his father about the circumstances around that, and a lot of trauma around his mother's death, and he was kind of working through that as he was falling in love with Prem. 

So we had all of these different things flowing into the same story, and one of the things that was so impressive about this show is that they actually did all flow together. The writing was very consistent. The characters were figured out from the beginning of the story. It's one of those things where, once you have all the context of who these people are, you can look back at all their previous behavior and it totally makes sense, and everything tracks. And all of these plot threads came together in the final three episodes through an actually pretty well executed conflict arc, which is something that doesn't happen very often in Thai BL—usually that's where Thai BLs completely fall apart. But here all of the conflicts were well laid throughout the show and built to kind of come to a head at the same point, and then we had them converge in the final arc. 

Not everything about the way they played out was extremely perfect or satisfying, but most of it was, and the characterization stayed true the whole way through. So it was some pretty strong writing for a show like this.

NiNi

I have to concur that the writing was really strong on this show. It's logically laid out. It makes sense, the characters behave like recognizable human beings, which I can't always say [laughs] is the reality of a lot of these dramas that we're watching. For example, Dynamite, who is a complicated character—with the mix of the writing and the acting, I could see underneath where his pushing of Fire was coming from, and why it was something that he felt like he needed to do? 

We find out through a flashback later, which—was a weird way to get this information—Fire was the one who made Dynamite who he is. He made Dynamite feel like he had to stand up for himself and be out there, and all he's doing is trying to do the same for Fire. It just plays out in this way that I think made some people uncomfortable, but I could see it once the context information was there. This is where [their] editing got hinky, because clearly the character was written this way. The hinky editing needed so that it took almost 2/3 of the show for the motivation to meet up with the character. That's not a writing problem, that's an editing problem. 

I found the writing on the show was incredibly strong, everything logically follows on from everything else. There was a lot of surprisingly deep writing around Ten’s whole issue with his dad about his mom, and his feelings about his mom. Around Samsee's feelings of potentially getting left behind because he's older, and they're getting into these relationships and he's starting to feel like, ‘what is there for me? It took me so long to find my people, and I feel like they're leaving me.’ And that was a particularly strong thread that I really enjoyed. I enjoyed Metha, who is Fire and Ten’s friend—hilarious, played by Tum, super good actor. I love him, very, very funny. I really enjoyed the writing on this thing, and I can't always say that for, particularly Thai BL… it was delightful.

00:16:59 - CC: Dynamite’s Queer Writing and Ten as a Rare Romantic Lead

Shan

All the characters in this show are great, but there's a couple that really, really stood out, and I think we should talk about them. And Ben, you should definitely lead us with some Dynamite talk. Tell us why that character matters so much to you.

Ben

Dynamite has the great honor of getting The Conversation’s first blorbo of the season award.

Shan

[laughs] So early in the season, too.

Ben

I know. He is the winter ‘24 blorbo for me! I love this boy. Here's the thing. With Dynamite: he is canonically young, he's like 17-18 in like his third year in school. And his only friends are played by Gun Atthaphan and Dome Jaruwat, who… create this very visibly queer friend group dynamic? This communicates a ton to me almost instantly, very early in the show, particularly with Dynamite living in some sort of like tenement housing, and then having really no one else to rely upon when someone died in the apartment above his, and contaminated the apartment he lived in, so he ends up moving in with Samsee. 

It’s a very obvious story to me as a queer person, that he had to finish school early because he could not stay home. And he has no one else to rely upon except his closest friends when he's in trouble. Samsee is communicated as a person who is like ‘I don't want nobody in my house,’ but immediately opened up his house to Dynamite when Dynamite was in trouble, because where else was that kid gonna go? 

And so, with Dynamite, we eventually learn that he was kind of getting picked on when he first got into the school with the rest of them, because… obviously he's a kid, and boys suck. And Fire saves him from this bullying instance, which almost read as a bashing? And this clearly rearranged his view about who he is in his life, where he recognized that he was gonna get clocked regardless. And so he was just going to be who he is. Fire gave off this whole fuck-you aura that he was clearly drawn to, and so he didn't go at Fire timid, because that's not what he saw in Fire. 

Dynamite spends the early part of the season determinedly pursuing Fire, who feigns annoyance about this, but is eventually revealed to… not want Dynamite to stop pursuing him. When he gets drunk and calls Dynamite out to come hang out with him, he tells him very directly: ‘even if I say no, don't stop.’ Which, very familiar to me dealing with my own closet issues and a bunch of other closeted folks growing up. 

Fire and Dynamite work really well for me, because familial acceptance is something that they're both struggling with. When Dynamite reveals his story to Fire, he tells Fire that he's okay with Fire not being ready to come out. Even if it's something he would prefer they do, he has lived through the worst things you can experience when you come out, which is losing your family support network. I really like that Dynamite’s understanding and belief in him is clearly what allows Fire to rebuild his sense of himself when he finally tells his mom that he cannot live up to this ideal that she has of him. That's built out from him recognizing who he is, because Dynamite has helped him figure that out. 

Dynamite hits a really specific queer note for me, because they create a character who I think is genuinely funny to watch, but you can feel a lot of his queer angst running underneath him the whole time, and they don't overextend it and make it be [laughs] way too melodramatic. Like his character’s just not gonna behave that way. I really like the way Dynamite has accepted the reality of his world, and has decided to build his own space in it, and it started with his friends. 

Most of these shows often get queer characters wrong in that they don't have like a reliable queer support network around them before they go rushing into some fuckin’ romance with some guy that's supposed to be the romance of their lives. Very glad that in this particular case, Dynamite has rock solid besties as he's pursuing Fire.

NiNI

In terms of other characters that I really responded to—and Shan's gonna like pick up the torch and run with it here—I loved Off as Ten.

Shan

Yeah!

NiNI

I am a recent Off convert. I really started getting into Off around Not Me, because the roles that I was seeing him play, from Not Me and continuing, I could see the growth that he's had over the years, and I really liked the energy that he was starting to bring to his roles, the maturity and the gravitas that he was starting to bring, whether it was something serious, like playing Sean in Not Me, or Mote in Midnight Motel, which I really enjoyed—or even, especially actually, playing Ten in a comedy like this. I mean, I just bought it 100%. They put Off on screen in those glasses, and the first thing we saw him do was argue with his dad, and I was like, yes absolutely, I am here, let's do this. 

I love the character of Ten. He's such a combination of tightly wound ball of stress and also incredibly fun and relaxed human being. I don't know how those two things work in one character, but they do, and Off plays both sides of him, I think brilliantly. I really enjoy getting into why he wanted to be a doctor, and the little mini arc that we had towards the middle of the series where he gets to recommit to being a doctor because he had sort of slid off course slightly. And he gets to recommit to, ‘no this is really what I want to do, I want to save people.’ Really loved that. The angst that he had around his mom dying, the angst that he had around his dad moving his girlfriend in, apparently it seems not too long after that… there's just a lot happening with Ten, but through it all he's just so delightful as a character. He saw Prem, he decided: ‘Yep, that's the one for me.’ He pursued him openly, he was just very forthright and honest at every step of the way, communicating all the way through… just love it. Love the character, loved Off in the role. I know. Shan's gonna, like, take that and run with it. [laughs]

Shan

I just want y'all to know—

NiNI

Shan is a babii, Shan loves Off.

Shan

I am living. I am getting my whole life right now. I just want you all to know, all of you listeners, that I was pretty much the lone babii around here until very recently. [laughs] I have always been an Off girlie, I have loved him since way back in the Puppy Honey days, I've always found him so charming. 

He started out as a pretty untested untrained actor and we've seen him grow across his roles, and so a lot of people have only kind of recently, in his last couple of shows, like fully come on board. But I have always been an Off girlie. I know that this show has turned Ben into a full blown babii, finally, [laughs] and that NiNi has come around on Off, and it's been very amazing to see. 

For my money, Ten is Off’s best character. They found the perfect character at the perfect time for him to play to all of his strengths. What's great about Ten — everything that NiNi just said is true, he's a very well written, very well-rounded character, and I love him specifically as a romantic lead. He has some really important qualities that you typically don't see in romantic leads, and that's why so many romcoms and romances are frustrating. Ten is a very honest person. He's a straightforward person. He is loyal. He kind of insists on building trust and on talking things through. 

One of my favorite things that happened in the final stretch of episodes was, Ten found in Prem’s room this sticky note that Pang had written, that said something like ‘the money from scamming Doc’ or something like that, basically making a joke about Prem scamming Doc for money. Ten found this sticky note and… he got his feelings hurt about it. He was like, ‘wow like, this kind of seems like you all were mocking me, this hurts my feelings.’ And in a typical drama you would see that turn into a big conflict. You would see the person who found the sticky note not saying anything about it, maybe be passive-aggressive, probably leave and go sit in their hurt feelings by themselves and then later it would blow up into a big fight. That's not what happened here, because Ten wouldn't let it happen. He takes the sticky note directly to Prem and he says ‘I found this, it kind of hurt my feelings, can you explain what this is about?’ And then he actually listens to Prem. And Prem apologizes because it was kind of mean-spirited, and he admits that. And then Ten says ‘OK, thank you for telling me. I forgive you, I'm gonna let it go.’ 

And I just love that! You don't see that kind of mature communication very often in romance at all, let alone in BL that's typically centered on younger characters. That was what Ten was like through that entire arc. He was just so honest. He wouldn't let silly misunderstandings get in the way. He always made sure to be very clear with Prem about what he wanted and what he was feeling. And he was respectful when Prem wanted space, but he always made sure that Prem knew that he was waiting there for when he was ready for more. Such a good model for a romantic lead, and because of those qualities in him, he and Prem ended up becoming a great couple that just—were a team. They faced things together. Our friend Twig called them a battle couple. They faced challenges together and didn't let things come between them. 

We haven't really mentioned Chef Chang Ma, who sucks and we hate him.

Ben

Sorry, Victor, your character sucks.

Shan

Your character sucks! He's a mentor to Prem, but he's also trying to hit on him the whole time. He's super inappropriate, he's always crossing boundaries, he's kind of a piece of shit, if I'm being real honest. But that guy was not able to get between Ten and Prem at any point, because every single time he tried, they communicated with each other, and figured out how to get back on the same page, and worked around him or shut him down. 

This couple's gonna stick with me in that they were able to work through so much together, and that they really sincerely made each other happy and made each other more confident and better at the things that they wanted to be better at. It was just lovely. I really loved this romance.

Ben

I'm going to continue behind Shan and continue praising Off Jumpol on this one, because I have not been kind to that man for the last decade. [laughs] He has not always been necessarily my favorite ambassador for BL. He's come a long way. This is definitely his best BL role. 

I'm making a Venn diagram after we're done with this recording, and it's just going to be Patts from La Pluie and Ten from Cooking Crush, because these characters have a lot of great crossover traits I really like. They're really kind with their partner and their friends, but… they have a temper, and it comes out with people they don't like. Off is funny, but also he's really good at playing… kind of pissy characters, and I'm really glad that they were like, ‘we gotta have Off be pissy with somebody. Let's make the correct choice for once, and not make it Gun that he's gonna be pissy with.’

Shan

[laughs] The crucial change!

Ben

Let's make him be pissy with his dad!

Shan

Mhm.

Ben

An excellent choice. And why is he pissy with his dad? Because his dad's a doctor. He didn't save his mom. That's a fairly valid reason to be pissy with someone about. And I think it works in terms of the family dynamics they go into. The dad's not going to tell his son that he's hurting because he feels like he failed to save his wife, the only woman he says he'll ever marry. He clearly cares about his son, because despite the way his son’s always talking out his fucking ass at him, he's not really punished him in any way. Despite the fact that Ten is clearly upset about the mom, and the dad in relation to that.

Shan

Yeah! Ten’s scenes with his dad were intense, and he was not being respectful and backing down in those scenes, ever. In this finale, he, like, took a power pose across the table from his dad, sat down at the other end of the table, planted himself firmly, and was like, ‘this is my boyfriend, and you are gonna fucking deal with it.’ I love that shit!

Ben

This is what I mean with the implied writing, because the way the stepmom is playing, she is way too familiar. It's very clear she's meant to be read as younger…

Shan

Mm-hmm.

Ben

And is trying to figure out what line she's supposed to take between being the partner of an older man, but also being closer in age to the kids. And like they mirror the positioning, she's sitting next to the dad, at the same position that Prem is sitting next to Ten. And there's this whole, ‘you brought this woman here. I wasn't consulted. This is my boyfriend. You're not getting consulted.’ And so I think the conflict between Ten and his dad is really great. Off needs to have, like, hostile conflict with other characters, because that's what we want to get out of him as an actor [laughs], directed in useful ways at his dad and at Chang Ma, and not at Gun's character, which is usually the problem I have with them in their shows.

00:32:08 - CC: Final Comments and Ratings

Ben

I was really glad to get a solid romcom out of OffGun. They also gave us some really ridiculous hilarity moments, like, they got that shot with their hands in the oven glove, twice? [Shan laughs] Unhinged. Holy shit.!

Shan

The interior oven glove shot? Amaaaazing. 

NiNi

Off getting hit in the face with Chinese kale? Not something I ever knew that I needed, but oh my god, I needed it.

Shan

Ten—he’s a big-ass goofball, which we saw with his fantasy sequences! Every time they were having cooking lessons, he was having fantasies in his head about Prem and various food items. [laughs] And they were the wackiest shit. Listen, I wish GMMTV would stop playing these games, but there was a YouTube version that had a lot of scenes cut from it and a WeTV version that had the full scenes. A lot of these food fantasies got cut from the YouTube version, but these sequences just really let you into Ten’s head, how wild and weird he was getting in there, and I just loved seeing that aspect of his character.

NiNi

It was a lot of fun. I have some dings, I have some critiques. The final episode went a little bit flat. They did round out and complete every single arc, except maybe one. But it did feel a little pat at the end? And out of left field, Pang and Samsee getting together in the end of the final episode.

[all laugh]

Shan

That was quite a choice—I was shipping Metha and Samsee for the whole show.

Ben

I was—

Shan

I was kind of disappointed.

Ben

I was disappointed.

Shan

I didn’t expect to actually get Metha and Samsee, but I kind of hoped that they would have left the door open for it. Firmly closing that door with having him get together with Pang at the last episode? I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either.

NiNi

It was a choice. But. It did kiiind of work, and the only reason that it kind of worked is because of my first nominee of the year for the Mark Pakin 6th Man award, and that is Dome Jaruwat.

Shan

Mmm! Dome was great.

NiNi

Dome is a great supporting actor.

Ben

You wanna know how good Dome is? I've been half joking about rewatching Until We Meet Again since we started doing this show. I haven't actually started until recently, because watching Dome every week reminded me that he sang on the Until We Meet Again soundtrack. And I had to go back and start watching the show.

NiNi

Yeah, cause Dome is primarily a musician, you do forget, but he is actually a very good supporting actor. When he shows up, I am always delighted anew by how good he is.

Shan

I've seen other shows that had him in it, but this is the first one where I really sat up and paid attention to him. He was fantastic as Samsee. And he got some real shit to do. One of the big conflicts in the final run of the show was about the way that these new romances were affecting the friendships. Dynamite and Prem were paying attention to their boyfriends, they were blowing Samsee off, they were missing cooking practice, and he was feeling some kind of way about it. He was kind of feeling a little bit abandoned. And it was just awesome that the show actually took that seriously, not just in letting Samsee express his feelings and get mad and have the other characters take that seriously and care? But they actually very deliberately, in the narrative, prioritized the friendship reunion and makeup scene over Ten and Prem getting together and making their relationship official. They had Ten approach with the intention of asking Prem to be his boyfriend, and stop and see that they were repairing their friendship in that moment, and back off and walk away.

Ben

It felt really important for BL, because BL friends are so ridiculous. BL friends are basically shippers half the time. Like, if they see, like, one of the boys is possibly getting with another boy that becomes the only thing that that character cares about.

Shan

Everyone's a fujoshi.

Ben

I like that that wasn't the case here! I like that Samsee had genuine beef with his friends deprioritizing him, when they were in the midst of something really important to them as a group that they've been working towards for a long time. Like, are you all fucking up our big project for dick? Come on!

Shan

This show really let its side characters shine. It was a really good showcase for a couple of actors: I think Dome and Aungpao, in particular…. Tum also got great stuff, Neo got to do great stuff… We haven't even mentioned Prem's grandma, who was also awesome.

Ben

She was great.

NiNi

Amazing. She was so good.

Shan

Fantastic, no nonsense, cut the bullshit, but at the same time, very loving and supportive. She was awesome. I loved her.

Ben

There's a little bit of a dropped bit that happens in episode 11, that I kind of wish the show hadn't cut out as much. Fire and Dynamite go back to Fire’s place and the mom comes out of Fire’s room in this very weird jumpscare, and Fire has the closet panic and ends up kicking Dynamite away from him. And he kicks Dynamite hard enough that he goes flying across the room and gets hurt a bit. And I kind of wish they had followed up on that scene. Because… I feel like Fire, recognizing that he actually hurt Dynamite is probably one of those things that tilts him on to the other end of ‘I'm going to come out now.’ And I kind of wish the show had followed up on that properly and let us see Fire make the decision.

Shan

Yeah, I do wish that the pacing of the Fire and Dynamite plot had been a little different in the final episodes? I think that it ended up feeling a little bit rushed at the end, and I think that was just about the timing of the beats. If a couple things had shifted back a little bit, I think it would have worked. As it was, it kind of all got shoved into the finale, and so it felt a little too quick, a little too easy. I like where it landed… like NiNi said earlier, the way that all of these story arcs ended felt correct and felt right. They rounded everything out. It's just that some of the beats in the final stretch got kind of weirdly compressed.

Ben

It was a little bit frustrating for me because Dynamite and Ten are both very forward and overt pursuers of their romantic interests, and I kind of wish that the two couples’ romantic pacing had been better aligned across the show.

NiNi

And again, that goes to the editing. It's a good show, it's incredibly well written and incredibly well acted, but I think that the direction and the editing let it down a little bit, and that's why for me, it got an 8.5.

Shan

I gave it a 9. The show was such a positive experience. I was so excited every Sunday morning to watch it, it was such a great way to start my rest day, to like, have a good vibe to take me through my Sunday. The writing was so strong, and that's the thing that I tend to care most about in shows. If the writing is strong, if the characters feel right to me? That is what I prize most in a show. The editing, the directing, definitely had some flaws. There are some things that I would change, but the most important parts of the show held up really well for me and I definitely will be returning to it often.

Ben

I think I'm going with a 9 because they got the gay portions of the show right, and I really liked the character drama of this. All the big moments for the characters in this show land correctly for me. This show held together the whole way through. And that's kind of what's good about the writing. Like when you're noticing editing issues in a show, it's because you're following the writing, and you see the editing stumbling to try and not let it down. I think the character writing is really strong and holds together for the whole show. I think the conflict writing that comes out of who these characters are is really good, and I just really like the way these characters work together. When I see these folks together in the ‘It's been years later! Let's go to Prem’s restaurant!’ it doesn't feel like a ridiculous impossibility.

Shan

I loved that flash forward. I love a time skip when it's used to tell us that everything is still good in the future, after all the conflicts have been solved in the present. I hate a time skip when it skips over conflict, but once all the conflicts are solved, yes! Take me to the happy epilogue. I love that shit.

NiNi

So that's a 9 for Cooking Crush from The Conversation.

Ben

It's a good show, it's an easy recommend.

Shan

Thank you for coming back, Off and Gun, and thank you for sticking around for The Trainee in 2024. We look forward to seeing you again.

00:41:14 - Cherry Magic: Beating Expectations and Simping for Tay Tawan

NiNi

OK, so moving on, and it's time for us to talk about Cherry Magic Thailand! Now, I am not so big an original Cherry Magic girlie as a lot of other people. I enjoyed it, I had a great time with it, but I'm not a stan of the original Cherry Magic live action from Japan, in the way that some other people are. 

Ben

I was!

NiNi

[laughs] Let's see. So, go ahead and lead us in. What is Cherry Magic Thailand about? And maybe you could talk a little bit about the original Cherry Magic as well.

Ben

Cherry Magic is about a young man, in this case named Achi, who is a low-ranking member at some sort of large corporation, who at the age of 30, because he's a virgin, gains telepathic powers. When he touches someone and makes any sort of physical contact with them, he can sort of hear their current internal monologue and what might be going on with him. He learns fairly soon after getting his powers that the hotshot salesperson in his company has been nursing a long-time crush on him, and complications ensue. There's also a very great supporting cast, which also in one portion features the same power.

NiNi

So this is an adaptation of an adaptation, or an adaptation of an original that was also adapted in another way… like [laughs] it's a little confusing. So this is originally a manga. The manga was adapted to Japanese live action. The manga has now also been adapted to a Thai live action, and then there's a third adaptation currently ongoing, which is a Japanese anime version. So there are three adaptations of this manga. We're going to talk about the Thai version in the most detail here, but I think we're going to come maybe to a couple of things to be said about the Japanese live action and the anime version. 

Shan, what were your overall initial thoughts when you heard Thailand's gonna adapt Cherry Magic and it's going to be done by GMMTV?

Shan

I was so skeptical. I am a TayNew girlie, I love them. I loved Dark Blue Kiss back in the day, so I was really excited to see Tay and New doing BL together again — I was not at all excited to see them doing Cherry Magic [laughs] when I first heard about it. I did have an affinity for the original Japanese live action. I don't think it's a perfect show, I have my own notes on it, but I did enjoy it a lot, I thought it was really well done. And I was just unsure of why GMMTV and Thailand needed to do their own version. 

That said, I was also hoping that if Thailand was going to do this, that the main purpose would be to address the biggest shortcoming of the Japanese live action, which is that in this narrative about a virgin who acquires magical powers, and then falls in love and then loses those magical powers via having sex with the person he's in love with, there was no sex! There wasn't even a kiss on screen! That was a huge flaw of that version that I hoped to see Thailand correct. And honestly, what I thought was going to be the main thing they could bring to the table in tackling this adaptation, was kind of finishing that narrative in a more sex-positive way that Thailand is kind of known for that Japan doesn't always do, particularly when they're doing their lighter BLs.

NiNi

Ben, what about you? When you heard about this adaptation, what were your thoughts?

Ben

Opposition. I was deeply opposed to this. [everyone laughs] I was not keen on a Thai attempt at this. I was kind of curious about what Thai humor would look like for this, and I was interested in the adaptation because I don't know what corporate culture in Thailand was like. So I thought that there was a real opportunity there. I was interested in a TayNew comeback, particularly because Tay hadn't really lost a step—even when he was doing other work—and I thought Newwie had gotten a lot better. And so I was excited about the two of them getting back together, and I thought that they were the best choice at GMMTV if GMMTV was going to do this. But I was not looking forward to it. 

How about you, NiNi? Did you have any initial feelings or concerns about it?

NiNi

I had no intention of watching this. [laughs] I was gonna give it a pass. I love Tay Tawan—I'm just gonna spend a few seconds here being a simp. That man is gorgeous.

Shan

He's so beautiful.

NiNi

He is so beautiful. And he is such a good actor. The first thing I ever saw Tay Tawan in was 3 Will Be Free, and I literally remember thinking, who is that? I think I might have said it out loud. Since then I have been a devotee. He can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned. Tay Tawan is everything to me. 

I have not been a big fan of Newwie. When I watched the parts of the Kiss series that I watched, loved Tay, was into Tay, Newwie I wasn't really feeling. I came around on Newwie a little bit last year after watching him in The Warp Effect—I thought he did really well there. And so I was not as down on him as before, but I still didn't feel like Cherry Magic was a story that I was interested in seeing Thailand adapt necessarily? 

A, it felt like an incredibly Japanese type of story and B, the director, X Nuttapong, is not one of my favourites. I do not tend to like his work. X did Vice Versa, Theory of Love, neither of those are my favorites. So I was saying, ‘OK, I'm only now kind of starting to feel like Newwie could maybe do something. I don't really like X’s work. I think I'm going to give this a pass.’ And I did give it a pass initially [laughs]. And then all of you started watching it and getting incredibly excited about it. Somewhere near maybe episode 10, I was like, ‘ahh! Fine!’ and started watching it. And I'm glad that I did!

Ben

So Shan, since you are the TayNew girlie—I don't remember their fans are called—of The Conversation—

NiNi

Polcas, they're polcas! How do I know that? I don't know.

Shan

Yeah, I don't know what polca means, but that's what they're called. I do not identify as a polca, ‘cause I hate the name. But I do love TayNew.

Ben

Why don't you break down why this was such an excellent viewing experience for us?

Shan

I mean, you heard all that skepticism that we were all bringing to the table, right? And this show, just, like, blew us all out of the water. It was such a good adaptation, it was so impressive. There's a lot of reasons for that, and we'll get into all the things that this production did well, but right at the core of it, the most important thing, is that Tay and New just killed it in these roles. They were just absolutely perfect as Karan and Achi. 

If you're familiar with the story of Cherry Magic, you know that Karan, or Kurosawa in the Japanese version,  is meant to be this kind of otherworldly perfect man, like he's excellent at his job. He's kind to everybody. He's beautiful. His very presence is just intimidating, because he seems too perfect to be real. And of course, he's not actually perfect, he's a human being. But that's kind of the image that he has. And so Tay Tawan [laughs] honestly, is a perfect casting choice for that role.

NiNi

No notes, no notes whatsoever.

Shan

Right? That man is beautiful. Every single time he is on screen in this show, I just got to get a hold of myself, and it's difficult every single time. Seeing that man and his beauty properly appreciated by the camera, wardrobe working, hair working, everything working for him… it was just such a good role for him. Not only on the looks either, but on his performance! 

He really nailed the inherent kindness of Karan, but also the inherent loser goofiness of him, which is the part of him that you don't see on the surface, and that's the secret. He seems like this cool, suave guy, but he's actually a total simp. He's super in love with Achi, and real fuckin nerdy about it. I think Tay Tawan was really able to… balance those aspects of him so well, so that they came together believably as one person. 

And then New as Achi, I think brought a really interesting dimension, because in some versions I think that character can feel a little bit self-contained, to the exclusion of being able to empathize with others. And Achi didn't feel like that. He felt like someone who had self esteem issues, he felt like someone who was intimidated by others and wasn't always sure what he could bring to the table, but who was interested in other people, and kind, and really wanted to learn how to communicate better with others. 

I thought they both did such a great job, both as their individual characters, and then together. We already knew they had awesome chemistry, but they really brought their A game to this show in terms of developing a believable chemistry between these two characters. We got to really see, over the course of the show, Achi's awareness of his attraction to Karan build, and his feelings genuinely grow, from kind of liking him in kind of a generic way, to actually getting to know him as a real person, taking him off that idol pedestal he'd had him on in his mind, and falling in love with him genuinely, and learning how to return his affection and develop a mutual relationship together. 

This Thai version really hit all of those really important landmarks in a romantic relationship, including the physical intimacy, with perfect pacing, such genuine emotion… they just really, really sold it. They did such a good job with this show, and I'm just so happy to eat my words and to have all my skepticism proven wrong. They did awesome.

Ben

I think you're right about Tay Tawan being a good choice, ‘cause Kurosawa slash Karan is… eminently charming in a really accessible way. The big part that works for him as a character is the fact that he's such a fuckin dork! And Tay Tawan is a dork. [laughs] That is a… important piece of his public persona, that he's really charming in a way that's not always intentional on his part? It's funny when it is intentional, and it's hilarious when he trips over himself because he's like, wait, did I just do that? It's great. It works really well here. Tay Tawan.

Shan

What a man.

Ben

I say like, these boys are beautiful, like every week, but he really is gorgeous. He's just absolutely stunning to look at all the time and he is just so delightful as Karan. This is probably my favorite role for Tay. I don't think, like, it's Tay’s best work, but I think it's my favorite role for him.

NiNi

I understand exactly what you mean, because I think that his best role is Shin from 3 Will Be Free, but in terms of like a great just nailed-on role for him? It's exactly like you said: he's gorgeous and the camera loves him. And so every time the camera turns on him and shows you Achi looking at Karan, and the camera is Achi in that moment—he takes your breath away! 

When Karan goes to see Achi during Songkran and he has to basically wash himself, there's a slow-motion thing when he starts throwing the water on his face, and I just kind of literally was watching that with my chin in my palm, and just like, wowwww, full zone-out moment. The camera loves that man. And it spent so much time on letting us see how gorgeous Karan is, but especially how gorgeous he is to Achi. I thought there was some really clever camera work and it was a good use of Tay’s good looks.

00:54:13 - CM: Relationship Development and the Powers

Ben

Speaking of Tay Tawan being a dork and being perfectly selected for this: at the end of episode 3, when they are returning from the company trip, and [laughs] Achi falls asleep and ends up leaning on Karan and wakes up because Karan starts screaming in his head—

NiNi

[laughs] Screaming internally, that's so funny.

Shan

That was so perfect. There has never been a more perfect moment on television. I don't care.

NiNi

It was amazing. It was incredible. It was delightful. It was fantastic. I can't even describe it well. Like you just have to see it.

Shan

It's the way that he keeps his face so controlled…

Ben

But like you can see like his mouth opens slightly, his eyes widen a little bit.

Shan

His eyes are screaming, while his face— 

Ben

Ahhh!

Shan

And then you see the “AAAAHHH” Like on the subtitle, which is perrrrfect perfect perfect. They did so well. They had so much fun with the mind reading jokes, and there were so many of them.

Ben

There were, they got a lot of traction out of it, it was great. Like, even after that moment ends and he wakes up Achi, Achi leans against him again, and he's like, ‘I wish I could fight all of Achi’s nightmares.’

[laughs]

Shan

Every time we heard his simp thought it was so perfect, it was always something so cheesy, or he's having a fantasy about like wiping Achi's nose or something, or like dreaming of their future together. Or he's singing a love song off-key in his own head. It's just so good! [laughs]

NiNi

I actually really like the way that the Thai show used the mind reading power. I like the jokes that they made out of it better than the Japanese version.

Ben

I think that's one of the things that they had extra time for, and I think they calibrated the humor for the Thai approach really well.

NiNi

Just simple things like, after Achi tells Karan about the mind reading power and Karan decides to use it to A) get Achi to move in with him, and B) once Achi has moved in with him to quote-unquote “test” the mind reading power at every potential opportunity by saying, ‘can you hear me now? Can you hear me now?’ And just like touching him randomly… [laughs] He touched his ankle and I was just like, oh my god, ok, this is ridiculous.

Shan

My favorite—he stuck out his elbow. He stuck out his elbow like a huge dork, leaning on his shoulder. And he was like, ‘can you hear me? Can you hear me?’ It's like, it was just so charming!

Ben

My favorite thing about Karan is he was never embarrassed about how deeply attracted to Achi he was. There was a toothpaste moment, where he started having a fantasy and Achi was like ‘oh my god, bro, please step back,’ and he's like, ‘wait, you see those things, too? So you saw… oh! ok.’ And then he walked away giggling to himself.

Shan

He just thinks it's funny. Actually that is an under-discussed, really cool thing that this adaptation did. Once Achi confesses to Karan that he's been able to hear him the whole time, Karan doesn't get upset. He actually thinks it's awesome. Because to him it's so meaningful to know that this whole time, Achi has known how he feels, and Achi has decided to be around him, he's OK with it. Karan, he’s someone who seems very confident on the surface, but he's very insecure about his feelings for Achi, because he doesn't think that they're returned, and he's always very worried about whether or not he's being a burden to Achi with his feelings, whether or not he's pushing something on him that he doesn't want, he's very conscious of that and respectful of boundaries.

Ben

It's an excellent gay choice.

Shan

Right? And so for him to learn that Achi has known the whole time how he feels and has been comfortable being around him anyway actually really made him happy. He was delighted to know that he didn't have to hide himself in that way.

Ben

Achi called that out, too. He's like, ‘why is the real beneficiary of my powers Karan and not me?’ That's actually a source material joke that they brought over really well. Kurosawa learns about the powers and starts actively flirting with Achi at work. And he's like, ‘why is he better at using my powers than me?’

NiNi

As much as we love the use of the powers, I actually want to talk about the moments that he chooses not to use his powers and instead to, for example, use his words. Because part of this story is about Achi coming more into himself and learning to be bolder and to be more open with himself and his feelings. And I really enjoyed that story happening alongside the powers. One of the things I found in the Japanese version was that Adachi really, I felt, leaned on his powers perhaps a little too much, in his relationship with Kurosawa? Achi, in this version uses his powers more sparingly, and also more accidentally? Whereas in the Japanese version he uses them more deliberately.

Shan

I thought they were so intentional about it. Achi confesses earlier about having the powers in the story. He expresses clearly to Karan his fears, about how their relationship will stay intact when he doesn't have that crutch to lean on. They talk about it directly. They do their really silly practice long-distance thing because Achi's feeling so nervous about whether they'll be able to maintain their communication while they're apart and he can't touch Karan to hear what he's thinking. 

Like you said NiNi, in some really crucial moments in the later stages of their relationship development, he's not using his powers, and he doesn't even think to, because he has grown to be so comfortable with communicating with Karan, using his words and listening to Karan and trusting what he's saying. We saw that evolve over time, so that in the end, when they finally decided to have sex, it really wasn't about the powers at all. That had already been resolved and they were already on really solid footing, Achi wasn't even using them anymore in that way. I like that they did it that way, that they separated those things a little bit. They had sex when they were ready to have sex and it wasn't related to wanting to get rid of the powers; the powers were not a barrier for them.

NiNi

I really liked how they went about the whole progression of their physical intimacy.

Shan

I think it felt…really right. I felt like I could trust this show to address it in a way that not only tied off the plot of the story and the narrative, which was rooted in sex or lack thereof, but also to make sure that it felt emotionally authentic to where the characters were, that any moment of intimacy between them was building their relationship development arc. And they pulled that off so beautifully.

Ben

They have their first kiss in a way I think is really satisfying, because Achi initiates it. Which I think is an excellent choice for Achi compared to Adachi.

Shan

And it felt very earned because their relationship was already so deep at that point, and you felt like Achi was ready for it. And of course, the build to them deciding to have sex for the first time. I like the way that that played around their temporary separation. Achi went away, and they hadn't gotten there yet in their relationship—not because of any big reason, it's just the natural progression, hasn't happened yet. And I like that when Karan went to visit him, things just felt right, and they progressed. I like that the story never felt like it was artificially holding that up to get to a certain beat. It really felt cathartic to finally see these characters get there in a way that felt so, so correct.

Ben

I thought every moment of intimacy between these characters was really well calibrated for the moment, and that the two actors involved understood what they were trying to accomplish in the scene. It was really nice to see two actors with experience, who trust each other, really deliver good emotional and intimate scene work, and that is supported by even all of the non-kissing they do between their characters. Just overall, I really, truly enjoyed watching Tay and New work together with these characters.

01:02:15 - CM: Other Characters

NiNi

Let's talk a little bit about the characters outside of Karan and Achi. I really enjoyed the way that these particular versions of the side characters were done. I particularly enjoyed Pai and Dujdao from the office. Dujdao is me, I am Dujdao. She is my fave. She is the one, I love her. Pai in this version is Fujisaki in the Japanese version, and then you've got Rock who is Rokkaku, you've got Min who is Minato, and you've got Jinta who is Tsuge. 

I really liked the way that this adaptation played with those characters, and I like how they intersected with the Karan and Achi story. I always like to see the wider world of these characters and the friends and family that they have, and how their relationship fits into their relationships with their friends and their family. Watching, particularly the little office family that formed with Dujdao and Pai and Rock, and then the friendship between Achi and Jinta, which I felt a lot more strongly about in this version than I did about the friendship between Tsuge and Adachi—it's a different kind of relationship. And I personally enjoyed Achi and Jinta’s relationship a little more than I did Tsuge and Adachi’s.

Shan

I really, really loved Min and Jinta in this story. I thought those actors did a great job with these characters, I felt like they fit in really well into the narrative. Jinta and Min in their own romance, as well as Jinta's friendship with Achi—both of those threads that they were carrying complemented the main story so well: supported the themes, helped move the plot along, they were just really well integrated into this story. 

Jinta is a great character: he’s awkward and kind of introverted and weird, because he spends a lot of time alone, but he's also a kind person, and he has a generous spirit, and I think that all of that came through really well. I loved that he and Achi kind of came into their powers in parallel and then worked together to figure out how to use them and what they meant. They got a lot of good additional mind reading jokes and humor out of Jinta, both in his scenes with Achi, where they would slyly touch each other and then have mind conversations, which eventually Karan caught on to, and that was also hilarious [laughs]. 

With Min and Jinta, I liked how much in this version that was about Min figuring out what he wanted to do with his life, whether or not he should continue to pursue his passion of dancing, and through his relationship with Jinta, getting encouragement, finding new confidence, and figuring out how to do that in a way that he felt like he could make a living from. And I thought that nicely supported the themes that were going on with Achi and Karan, also learning to communicate with each other and care for each other and support each other through new opportunities. 

This show also did something really interesting with Pai and Rock. One of the big reservations when this adaptation was announced was that in the Japanese live action, Fujisaki was an aro-ace woman. She explicitly identified that way, it was plotline of the show. And I just knew that in Thailand, they were gonna put the same character in a romantic relationship, cause Thailand loves side couples and they just can't let anybody end the show single, even people who are supposed to be single [laughs] according to their identities. And so I was dreading that, honestly, I was like, ‘they're gonna have Pai get into a romance with Rock, I'm gonna hate it.’ 

But you know what? I didn’t hate it. The way that they got them together in the end was really sensitive, I think, to the fandom that they were clearly aware was out there hoping to see this character retain some of that aro-ace rep that was so meaningful to people in the Japanese live action. So I thought they were really respectful of it, I thought they did a great job with it. I think even though they got together in the end, there's still a very clear aro-ace read on Pai, and I like them together. Their scenes were fun, they have a good easy chemistry and charm, even if it doesn't feel particularly sexually charged. 

And I thought that Rock and Pai were both as well, great supporting characters in the narrative. Their connection supported the story when it needed to. All of these side characters came together really well in a way that never distracted from, and always bolstered the main narrative, which is the most important thing to me for side characters.

NiNi

When Sing Harit picks up Tay Tawan and runs off with him while he wais at the client —

Shan

[laughs] It was perfect!

NiNi

[laughs] He literally just picked him up off the ground and just runs away!

Shan

He was so good in this role, he was perfect.

Ben

I'm glad we get to keep Sing. I've been watching that man for nine years.

Shan

He always brings something great to every show he's in.

Ben

So, I am a fan of original Cherry Magic adaptation Tsuge and Minato. I like how extra Tsuge is. Asaka Kodai: I like the way he played Tsuge. I like how he focused on how weird Tsuge is, and how passionate he is about things. I like Jinta as a take on that character…I appreciate why people like him more. I don't think I like him more? But I like them both specifically. 

I like the Tsuge character, and I like how in the three versions of him I've seen adapted now, each adaptation has approached him. I genuinely enjoyed the version of Tsuge and Minato we got in Jinta and Min. I really liked the way they played together. I don't necessarily think Mark succeeded at all of Min, but I really like the way he and Junior work together. 

I like Rock in this version because Rokkaku is an aggravating character, intentionally, in the Cherry Magic story. He is far less annoying in this version than he is in Japanese versions of this character. 

I liked Pai in this one, I like the corrective fujoshi behavior that they were doing with her. I was worried at first when they leaned into the fact that Fujisaki is a shipper who has been shipping Adachi and Kurosawa for a very long time [laughs]. I like the way the Thai show ends up using that. I like the presentation of her as, ‘you can help your ship when they need to overcome an obstacle, but their moments don't belong to you.’ I loved her, genuinely. And I liked — what was her name? The manager's character?

NiNi

How could you forget my girl Dujdao?

Ben

I really liked the way they made the office manager kind of like a…auntie figure to a lot of them.

NiNi

I love how Achi accidentally brushes against her, and hears her positive thoughts about him. Because that's not a moment that they had to put in there. But I thought that it was really nice and important that Achi got to hear how much she truly cares about him.

Shan

We didn't mention the other coworkers who came at the very end of the story, when Achi traveled, but there was a whole new crew of colleagues that he got to meet on his one-month assignment at another branch. They started that episode with a little bit of anxiety around, you know, are they gonna be mean to Achi? Are they gonna pick on him? Do they think he's a snooty city person? Are they going to be homophobic? 

I love that they just turned out to be like, a good group of dudes who were pretty good at their job, needed a little help getting set up, and once Achi proved that he was there to help them and he was competent, they completely accepted him and they were lovely to him. The show is just like—everybody was trying their best all the way through and I really like that. With one exception.

NiNi

Let's talk about that exception now, let's talk about the dreaded episode 8.

Shan

Dreaded is the right phrase.

Ben

My thing is, if you're going to add to Cherry Magic, why would you add workplace sexual assault? Why would you make the boss worse? The boss is really good prior to episode 8 and he's really good after episode 8. I don't understand why in episode 8 they would have him put some sort of bullshit ‘employees can't date each other’ rule into play, and be like, ‘Alright gays: if you can prove that you are economically viable to me by hitting an unrealistic sales target and whoring yourselves out to shitty clients, maybe then I will consider letting you two homos date each other.’ 

I hated that. I hated that Karan felt like he had to go face her again, I hated that the boss knew it, and sat with Achi to be like, ‘how do you feel about that, bro?’ And then there's like, this whole sequence where she further tries to embarrass him, but then the boss decides to be like, ‘No, I have morals.’ Where were they 40 minutes ago? I just did not like the inclusion of any of that. 

It sucked too, because it was a holding pattern episode for Achi and Karan and the crew around them. Nobody really grew as a result of the events that happened there, and it just made me really resent the boss as a character. After that episode, he has a completely reasonable professional response to Achi clearly being frustrated with his role at the company. Achi, who—Karan has shown him through the course of the season—is actually a really good and really valuable employee whose efforts have gone maybe unnoticed, but that's because he's shy. And so when he recognizes that Achi is struggling professionally and wants to maybe do more, he gives him a very reasonable opportunity. Has very reasonable expectations about it, does not withhold how difficult the position may be, and has a reasonable expectation for Achi to make a decision about it. 

It was really frustrating for me to try and reconcile that version of a fairly sensible boss, who is trying to give an employee an opportunity to succeed professionally, with the guy who we got in episode 8.

Shan

It felt wrong, it didn't feel like it was of a piece with the rest of the story. We found out pretty quickly that it was not from the source material, and it was an original episode that they've decided to write because they think they needed to fill a little bit of time. It's the one blemish on the show which was otherwise so wonderful, and so it just kind of sucks that they made this choice and tarnished things a little bit by doing such an ugly extra subplot, that just wasn't needed and didn't do anything for the story.

NiNi

In the end, I'm glad it was just a subplot. And it is, to my mind, pretty easily excisable.

Ben

We just deleted the episode. Boop!

Shan

Just pretended it didn't happen and carried on, and that worked great for me personally. [Shan and Ben laugh]

01:13:51 - CM: Ratings

Ben

I will say at this point, before we get to rating that this is now my default Cherry Magic version.

Shan

Same.

Ben

I think the Thai show feels complete in a way that the Japanese experience didn't. And that's…honestly, for me, reinforced by the anime that's running simultaneously right now. What I am enjoying with the two active adaptations right now is the very different approaches to the characters. 

Karan is really sensitive to Achi and Achi is really sensitive to him in a way that I find really useful in the story, but there's a chippiness to the Japanese anime version of these characters. They are not as emotionally intelligent, they have a temper about them, there's a little bit of selfishness. Like, I think Adachi’s kind of a dick in this one, he complains about people being irritating normies a lot in a way that I find very amusing. And Kurosawa’s far more possessive—internally, he doesn't express it externally that often—in a way that I find lands more correctly for him, in comparison to maybe the way Keita Machida played Kurosawa and the way they presented him. 

I really like the Thai localization of the Cherry Magic story here, and I think it exists very peacefully alongside the current Japanese anime version and the source material, and I think it sits favorably against the original Japanese version. 

The intent of the powers to enable greater empathy and better communication between people lands far more consistently in the Thai version. I am really, truly glad that they actually did this and did a good job with it. We did not have high hopes for this motherfucker when they told us about it, and this ended up being one of the most pleasant experiences we've had in genre in a really long time.

NiNi

So, ratings. Shan, you go first: what's your rating for Cherry Magic Thailand?

Shan

I gave this show a 9.5. Could have been a 10 if not for that episode 8, but episode 8 exists, unfortunately, so it's a 9.5 for me. I found it to be such a good time, such a well-executed story. I think it was a masterful adaptation. It did such a good job taking this Japanese story and translating it into something that felt of a piece with Thai culture. The performances were excellent. The whole production was great. I loved how thoughtful everything was. It was such a good show for me. I wish I could go back to before I watched it, and watch it again and be delighted anew.

NiNi

Ben, how about you?

Ben

Similarly, I gave it a 9.5; I think this was an excellent experience. I think it was really enjoyable week to week, and this is what I want out of my BL TV viewing experience. I got to look forward to it every week, and I walked away from it satisfied. One of my favorite TV experiences is when a show is really good, without me instantly yearning for more. I had a really great anticipation of it when a Saturday morning rolled around, and I felt really good for the rest of the Saturday after watching it, and I didn't feel like I was missing something all week because it wasn't on. It was something that I really looked forward to on Saturdays. That is the ideal TV show experience, for me. And I don’t get to have that very often. I really, truly appreciate it that this show was one of the better or best week-to-week viewing experiences I've had for years. 

9.5 for episode 8.

NiNi

I scored the show a 9.75.

Ben

Oh my god.

Shan

[laughs] Wait, are we allowed to do .25?

Ben

We're not. She can do it, though. [laughs]

Shan

She’s cheating!

NiNi

I am calling producer privilege to give it a 9.75! No, but the subplot in episode 8 really is a ding, but also I really loved this show. The ding had to be dinged, but I will find it very easy to excise that subplot from my memory of the show and move on. Also, I didn't have to sit in it for a week like you guys did because I was binging it, so it's easier for me, I think, to just kind of be like, pfft! Over that.

Ben

Let me tell you, that was a difficult week for us.

Shan

It was a bad week. We were scared.

Ben

We have been in this position with Thai BL where things are going great, and then episode 8 rolls around and like, oh, here we go. That was not a great week with this show’s experience. We were not really anticipating—we were hoping it wouldn't be shit, picking up with the cliffhanger of Achi revealing his powers to Karan. That was a good choice, that allowed us to focus on the future, not the past.

NiNi

And then you were immediately rewarded in episode 9 with the kiss!

Shan

Sure were!

Ben

And then they reminded me of the boss's bullshit in the finale. He's like, I'm throwing away my stupid policy. I'm like, ‘why would you bring that back up?’

Shan

Don’t bring it up! We’re trying to pretend it didn't happen!

Ben

I had just forgiven you, you motherfucker. Shut the fuck up. [all laugh]

NiNi

All right. All right. [laughs] OK, so 9.5, 9.5, 9.75 fine, it gets a 9.5 from The Conversation.

Ben

We highly recommend it! It is a good viewing experience.

Shan

Everyone should watch it. 

NiNi

Fantastic show.

01:19:34 - The Pillars: Overall Thoughts

NiNi

OK, so we've just spent the last — I don't know how much time this is going to be edited—

Ben

It's going to be a long edit for you, that's for damn sure. [laughs]

NiNi

We have just spent the last maybe two-ish hours talking about our OGs, and the stuff that they've been in this year. OG to new G, so to speak. Let's talk a little bit about the pillars, about the experience of watching these people do what they know how to do really well at this point. Shan, what's your experience been like?

Shan

It was so lovely for me. I am an OffGun and a TayNew girlie. I have been a fan, I love those pairs. I am not a big fan of the branded pair system, to say the least—I think that it can be really damaging sometimes in the Thai media landscape, but I think that these two pairs have worked together for a really long time and they've figured out what works well for them. And they have also gone off and done other things, they don't only work together making BLs. All of these four actors have very full careers. And so I'm very happy that they were able to bring them back and pair them with such great projects. 

Candidly, these are my two favorite Thai shows of this entire season. They knew what they were about, they executed them really well, and they used the pairs at the center of them to all the best of their abilities and their strength. I'm glad to see that they're planning to continue to work together. Both TayNew and OffGun have announced their next projects already for 2024, and I'm excited to see more adult BL from these guys.

Ben

To be clear, we are not certain that Peaceful Property or whatever it's going to be called is actually going to be a BL.

Shan

I don't need them to make out to enjoy their presence together, so I'll be happy either way.

NiNi

I don't care if it's a BL—I would prefer it to be BL, but Peaceful Property just looks like a good-ass time, so I'm going to enjoy that. I wasn't planning to watch The Trainee, but after Cooking Crush I'm gonna watch The Trainee. I've dialed in to the OffGun of it in this particular direction. I just like Off doing comedy.

Ben

He is good at comedy.

Shan

So good at it

NiNi

I really enjoy it. Not only watch him doing comedy, but watch him doing comedy now. Because he has improved, he has grown, he's really dialed into what he's good at, and he can portray it in a way that I don't think he used to be able to. So, I am looking forward to watching The Trainee definitely. 

News news, apparently the third of our pillars coming back is a possibility? So there are three OG pillars for GMMTV. Like we said, OffGun, TayNew, and the third OG pillar was Krist and Singto. We got word recently that Singto’s coming back to GMMTV? So that's an interesting thing. I don't know necessarily that there's going to be new KristSingto stuff, but…

Shan

Krist has already teased it on social media.

Ben

Krist has teased it, but he said that they won't tell him information because he usually leaks it.

Shan

Right. But he said he wants to do another project with Singto. They've put it out there, maybe as a little bit of a test balloon to see if people are interested in it. So I wouldn't be surprised if we find out next year that they're going to be doing another BL together.

NiNi

I wouldn't be surprised if we find that out in April, when the Part 2 of the GMMTV thing comes out.

Ben

[sigh] OK, I'll talk about this. We need to own that has not been a good run for Singto, for about three to four years now. He hasn't really had a solid win in a while. And I don't know that I want him and Krist back together. This is such a weird choice to make, coming off of Be My Favorite where I was like, ‘OK, Krist, you've grown as a performer. I thought you were used well here, I thought your reputation, whether it be right or wrong was used well here. And I'm willing to put all this aside and move forward.’ 

And now I'm feeling triggered [laughs] by the news that he and Singto will be back together. I'm not necessarily thrilled about it. Like, yeah, we had a lot of skepticism about Cherry Magic, blah, blah, blah, coming into this. And that ended up being fine. But like… [sigh]

Shan

None of my reservations were about the pairs, though. It's all about the material. Here, Krist and Singto don't have good chemistry.

Ben

I don't think they do at all.

Shan

We know that. They did two, three shows together over several years of working together. Did not manage to produce believable chemistry as a pair.

Ben

I'm not keen on it.

NiNi

OK, so here's what I'm gonna say.

Ben

Go ahead, bestie.

NiNi

I have been wrong about all of their recent projects. I haven't watched any really old things or stuff since he left GMMTV, but in terms of Be My Favorite, in terms of Cooking Crush, in terms of Cherry Magic Thailand, I have been wrong. And so I am willing to give any new KristSingto project a shot.

Shan

Oh I'm going to watch it. If they make it, I'm going to watch it. I need to know.

Ben

It's not about whether or not we're going to watch it.

Shan

Yeah.

NiNi

[laughs] They're all like, ‘oh, no, we're watching it! Nobody said we weren't gonna watch it.’ [laughs]

Shan

We will be watching it and we will be having takes! That is what we will be doing. I continue to be skeptical about the two of them being able to generate believable chemistry together. Maybe they could do a show that's not a BL. Maybe they could try that.

Ben

I won't watch that, that's for sure! [Shan laughs]

NiNi

We're talking about OG to new G. Maybe we could do some mix-match merry-go-round with Perth and Chimon.

Shan

I'd be OK with that!

Ben

Oh my god.

NiNi

Get some new pairings out of it.

Ben

There are no more—I—why are we giving Perth and Chimon another ch—Why would you bring them up in this conversation?

NiNi

Mix match merry go round! Mix up the pairs! Maybe they'll work better with other people.

Shan

I think Krist and Singto both need to be paired with strong screen partners who can bring that chemistry piece, because neither of them is particularly good at it on their own, and together it just doesn't happen. I don't know how much of this we should even allow to air. We're going to get shot by their fans.

Ben

I do not care about them. You can be mad.

NiNi

I don’t care [laughs].

Shan

What is their fandom called?

NiNi

It's Peraya.

Shan

Peraya that's right.

NiNi

Peraya ask me how I know. I don't know how. I know. I just pick up these things by osmosis.

Shan

I am not a Peraya. I want this to be very clear.

Ben

I am not either.

NiNi

But like, OK, so we've established that Perth needs a good lead and Chimon needs a good follow, and Krist is, I think, a better follow than a lead, and Singto is a better lead than I think a follow. So maybe they mix them up, maybe they get something good out of it.

Ben

Mm, anyway. So. [laughs]

NiNi

Y'all are mean to my baby Perth and I'm not having it.

Shan

NiNi I appreciate the spirit of this brainstorm. I think it's worth a try [laughs]

Ben

I don't. [laughs]

NiNi

Perth, if you ever listen to this, don't listen to the mean people. It's OK. I love you.

Ben

Look, I love Perth. But it's not been a good year for him. I'm sorry, baby boy.

Shan

I think it's been very cool, though, sincerely, to see the OGs come back around. I like that we're no longer saying [laughs] that BL is a young man's game, you gotta get out when you turn 30. I like that we're letting some of GMMTV's older talent headline these shows and that we're getting some shows about adults. That's all super welcome, and I think it's really nice too, to see pairs like Tay and New and Off and Gun, who are real veterans with handling all of this stuff around making BLs together—handling the BGP, handling all of the fan attention, they do it with a lot of grace and very professionally, in a way that I think is helpful to see a model for for some of the younger pairs. 

I think it's helpful for fans also to be reminded of how they should engage with actors who are doing their job when they're making these shows. GMMTV is going to continue to dominate Thai BL for the foreseeable future, so I think it's good that they're bringing these veterans back and doing good work with them.

Ben

I agree. I think OffGun and TayNew have been on the forefront of the development of Thai BGP for a long time, and it's really good to see them seem confident and comfortable about it at this point. Both of these pairs have had some negative experiences with fan behavior, so. I'm very glad that those two pairs were able to continue working together, continue to make projects together, and in this particular case, deliver two of the most satisfying viewing experiences we've had in the last three to four months. I'm pleased.

Shan

They killed it. Amazing work.

NiNi

I, too, am pleased. I wasn't in the OG thing. I wasn't shooting with y'all in the gym then, but I'm here now and what I saw this time around I truly enjoyed. I'm never going to be a babii. I'm not going to be a a polca. I'm never going to be a peraya. I'm just not a fan like that. I fan, I don't stan, I always say, except for, [laughs] you know, the large ones.

Shan

For a couple exceptions.

NiNi

Except for the bigguns. The pillars thing has always been like the super weird thing for me, and this is the first experience that I've had with it that it wasn't weird and slightly creepy for me, which I truly enjoyed. So yeah, good job, boys. Excellent work, 10 out of 10, no notes. 

So, that is going to wrap us up on our pillars episode: we out! Say bye to the people, Shan.

Shan

Goodbye people.

NiNi

Ben, say bye to the people.

Ben

Peace!

#cooking crush #cherry magic thailand #cherry magic th #podcast #lgbtq #ben and nini's conversations #the conversation #on art #thai bl #bl series #spring series #spring 2024 #cherry magic #cooking crush the series #offgun #taynew

[dollypopup]

FINE, if no one else is gonna say it. . .

it is WEIRD that we as a fandom are so okay with Debling being a 'serious' option for Penelope. She is a 19 year old woman. She is a third daughter from an unpopular family who has no father. This is a 30 year old man, 40, even, who is pursuing a teenager. All the 'oh, he notices her as a woman!'

and none of us are asking why it is that a seemingly 'perfect' guy is out here going for a woman on the outskirts of her society, who most people do not pay attention to? a powerful man with a lot of money and a title pursuing a woman who is largely unnoticed in her world, in a family without a father, who doesn't have, on the surface, any other options? our fandom doesn't talk about how big of a power imbalance they have between them, or even how Penelope is being styled to look extra young in contrast to him?

she looks like his DAUGHTER. He's even styled to be a more mature man in their society. Compare him to the fashions of younger men. Clean shaven, sleeker lines in their fashion,

He is, in fact, most comparable to Will, who is a married man with three children.

Debling legit looks like he could be her father. That is NOT a 20 year old man. That man is in his 30s at best, and in his 40s at worst. Which gives him and Pen a decade or two of age difference. Add on the fact that he's titled and she's a literal teenager, and it just gives me the MAJOR ick.

People are praising the idea that Debling makes Penelope feel like a 'woman' but as someone who has been a 19 year old woman with much older men interested in me (especially a PLUS SIZE 19 year old woman with older men interested in me) claiming I am oh so mature, it's. . .uh, not usually a GOOD thing?

We'll demonize Colin for being a 22 year old man who doesn't see Penelope as a romantic option because for the grand majority of the time he's known her, she's been a minor, but see absolutely nothing wrong with the idea that the production has given her a suitor who is an outsider of their society, who could take her away wherever if she actually agrees to marry him, and now have this 19 year old woman no one is going to really check on to do with as he so pleases? And we're wanting him to. . .what? Make out with her? Take her virginity? Just the thought of that makes me deeply uncomfortable.

We'll talk about the power imbalance between Colin and Penelope, about how he has experience that she doesn't and how that can cause concern, but absolutely NOTHING about the ACTUALLY CONCERNING power imbalance between her and Debling? Colin is 22 and a third son, he and Penelope have known each other for years, he is safe. He would never take advantage of her or lead her astray, he cares about her as a person and then comes to love her and desire her in ways outside of friendship. Debling has known her for less than a month, is likely in his mid thirties, has a title and money and power, and felt okay with feeling up on her in public in an era when holding HANDS was considered scandalous.

Imma need us to give Monopoly Man more smoke because I am confused as to how he's oh so perfect and yet the option he chose for a wife is an unpopular and financially unstable 19 year old woman who is largely ignored in society. None of us find that weird?

Meanwhile, we have Colin who has, yes, held Penelope's hand and called her by her Christian name, but has also complimented her on things that aren't just her appearance, and who has asked how she's been, and tried to help her, and called her his friend, and wrote her letters, and cared about her, and I reiterate, is much much closer to her in age and can relate to her considerably more.

The whole 'oh, well Penelope should sleep with Debling to give her and Colin more even ground' is CREEPY. Colin slept around with sex workers on his travels because that's the regency appropriate safe and responsible way to explore such things for men of his age and status. He is following examples his brothers, whom he trusts and loves deeply, have set for him. He is not exploiting anyone. He is paying for a service and that service is being provided. And he's an attractive man who is young and respectful, these women are FINE, so don't go pearl clutching over how he's being oh so fetishistic just because he's exploring kink. Penelope doing these things with Debling would be HIM taking advantage of HER, and putting her in a very vulnerable and scary position. If that actually happens, what options does she have? He could say he ruined her and that would be game over for her, she has no other choices or options outside of that. And if it's actually true, she is TRAPPED.

I need this fandom to be so serious here right now. You don't ship Pebling. You ship Penelope being seen as desirable, and COLIN finds Penelope desirable. He will make that very VERY evident. We don't need an almost 40 year old man to pursue her and do nothing but compliment how hot she is and feel up on her in public to do that. He doesn't see her as a person, but Colin does. We should be rooting for one of these men, and it's not the one a lot of us are.

#polin #penelope bridgerton #colin bridgerton #anti debling #anti pebling #imma be real y'all it gives me the major ick #how has no one else talked about this??? #i know luke is 31 but he can pull of a man in his 20s #and nicola can pull off a woman of penelope age #debling's actor? no shade to him but he CANNOT pull off a man in his 20s #why is no one talking about this????.

[ride-thedragon]

I see Laena casting discourse again. They really did age her up unnecessarily, and I do think it was to communicate how bad the whole picking child bride thing is while making her a suitable (young) match for Daemon. I genuinely remember the sheer disbelief that she was teen Laena.

Milly and Emily are Rhaenyra and Alicent from ages 14 to 20, respectively, somewhere in that timeline they become Emma and Olivia's versions of the characters. Nova is Laena from 12 to about 15, and then from 16 to 20-ish, she's played by Savannah, who then passes over to Nanna until 26, Laena is at best 26 when she dies. It's a less similar time frame for Laenor who , as much as I love young Laenor, should've been played by the same (teen) actor as he and Rhaenyra are the same age.

Back to Laena, I think they should've just casted younger and kept 1 Laena for youth and one Laena for adulthood like the other girls. Yes, she's younger but not young enough to need that much of a difference between episodes 1 and 5. I'm not promoting the sick comedy of Daemon and Youngest Laena, but that's the general point. You can't want to show the world we're in with Viserys and Rhaenys and then falter when it's Daemon's turn. Those actresses do not have a 4 year age gap. Even casting an older actress in both parts but changing their styling would make sense.

I'm not upset because I adore every Laena actor. They looked and found the prettiest actors they could, and they DIDN'T DISAPPOINT, but it was biased storytelling.

I think this was a case where hiring a young actress and allowing costumes and acting to tell a story would've worked beautifully.

Another way it would've worked was seeing as production and filming takes so long, hiring a young actress and filming baby laena at the start and teen Laena at the end of filming.

Are there no black 14/15/16 year old actors to hire?

I also don't like the fact that they cast Laena with much older actors when they are done with that initial point.

Nova is 14 now, and Savannah is 28. Nanna is 37.

They were 10/11, 25/26, and 34/35, respectively, while filming.

Respectfully that's insane.

They are playing 12, 16, and 26.

It's a clear oversight and is weird because yet again, they didn't consider the implication of a 16 year old black girl going after a 30+ year old prince. Or the idea of going from casting Laena with an actress younger than her age to two actresses a decade apart from her canon age.

Anyways: Casting 101

When 2 actors represent the spectrum of ages, your character is at (10 to 26), maybe cast between them for a teen version.

I don't like the inconsistent casting. I genuinely think the only reason I don't hate it more is because of the fact that the inconsistent costumes piss me off more.

No hate to the actresses again. This is about character continuity and not at all a reflection of their performances. They are our Laena's and the reasons we wish we got more of the character.

#hotd #house of the dragon #laena velaryon #lady laena #laena casting #hotd casting #weird age consistency #something very nefarious is at play #idk why I put kyleigh there but she's a good actress so.... #hotd meta #its all so weird

[itstokkii]

I've been considering making this post for a while but hesitated since I don't wanna beat a dead horse.

I'd like you to look at this post looking back at the Andijan massacre. What started as people protesting issues like distribution of gas, electricity, and other human needs and rights ended in a bloodbath. A cousin of mine told me schools taught it as "the national guard protecting civilians from Islamist terrorists."

I'd also like you to look at this paper by the Human Rights Watch on the torture and persecution of Uzbek Muslims like me during Islam Karimov's 20 years of dictatorial rule. Even Uzbek Muslims outside of Uzbekistan weren't safe. Multiple family friends of mine were randomly tackled to the ground and arrested by Korean Police on accounts of "domestic terrorism" in Uzbekistan, and some were only released about 5 years ago.

You weren't allowed to wear hijabs(even in Islamic universities), openly pray, read the Quran, or do anything religious. Someone would always be there watching to report you.

I wasn't allowed to go outside by myself around my neighborhood due to Uzbek government agents kidnapping the children of Uzbek diaspora abroad. I wasn't allowed to wear a hijab until after we went to Uzbekistan 2 years after Karimov's regime ended, and we made sure it was safe there and back. I wasn't even allowed to visit the country to see my relatives for almost a decade because of the crackdown on Uzbek Muslims.

When Uzbekistan was colonized by Russia as the Uzbek SSR and even before then as Turkestan, Russia made sure to stamp out religion entirely. They killed off scholars and poets like Cholpon, who wrote about Uzbek self-determination and praised religious texts. Uzbekistan's first leadership since its independence carried on with this policy, with Russian colonial values ingrained into them.

As for Korea, our partition was opposed by the whole peninsula. When Jejuans protested the US-UN backed elections, it ended in 10% of Jeju's population being killed by joint US-Korean forces. Though the South Korean Government apologized for the first time recently, the US stays silent. What a surprise. The bodies of these Jejuans were buried in mass pits and had the Jeju Airport built on top of it.

The US still fails to apologize for the No Gun Ri Massacre, in which the US Army murdered about 300 Korean villagers despite knowing they were civilians and therefore not targets. The US also indiscriminately bombed North Korea with more bombs than they had in the Pacific Theater in World War 2, martyring almost 2 million Koreans.

After the Korean War followed almost 30 years of dictatorship by Syngman Rhee, then a military junta, then Park Chung Hee and Chun Doo Hwan. During this time, university students protesting the dictatorial rule established by the US were arrested as "anti communists," and be tortured repeatedly, sometimes even until death.

Though the Seodaemun Prison is known for being Japan's colonial prison where they arrested independence activists, the Korean dictatorships used it to arrest people in favor of democracy.

The Namyeong-Dong Anti-Communist Investigation Office was a similar prison, in which one of the floors had extremely thin, narrow windows to avoid prisoners from escaping. Park Jong Cheol, a Seoul National University student who was protesting against Korea's military dictatorship at the time, was incarcerated here and routinely tortured. He eventually died due to water torture.

The Gwangju Massacre was a protest held by many activists against Chun Doo Hwan's dictatorial rule, which came about as he staged a coup and successfully overthrew the previous government. As they called for democracy, Chun Doo Hwan brought the national army, who fired upon, killed, and raped the protesters. Chun Doo Hwan was never held responsible for his crimes before he died, and his grandson recently apologized to the victims and their loved ones. It was found that the US approved Chun Doo Hwan's plans to use armed forces on the protesters in Gwangju.

Though the Gwangju Massacre is taught about in Korea, much of the US involvement and responsibility of the horrors of the dictatorship is left out.

The US does not allow Korea to produce its own nuclear arsenal, allowing Korea to rely entirely on the US for nuclear support. Additionally, the existing presence of the USFK in Korea and their joint training sessions with the ROK army further provokes North Korea and therefore gives the US a "justification" to maintain its military presence in Korea.

Growing up I was taught where to look for nearby nuclear shelters. We visited the War Memorial of Korea multiple times, and air raid sirens are rare but are happening more often recently.

This, along with the added danger of living as Uzbek diaspora outside of Uzbekistan as Muslims.

So when I say "please respectfully depict Russia and the US when it comes to the Cold War in a way that does not center them entirely" and "please keep the gravity of their actions in mind as you write them; Hetalia does not exist in an apolitical vacuum,"

and I am met with "mature adults" telling me that "they're just characters," or

"i'm the one ruining the fandom," or

"block and move on," or

"i love russia and america cold war!!!" or

"you're crazy" or

"moralf*g" or

"someone's sensitive"

and especially from russian artists who call me an "American SJW." russians calling me an uzbek overly sensitive for asking that they portray their country a little more respectfully to the victims of their colonialism. yeah that's completely normal

you are normalizing centering discussions about the Cold War to the imperial core, and then having nothing of substance to say about and being absolutely insensitive towards someone who's life has been and still are dictated by these imperial forces, and even harrassing them.

where's the "block and move on" mentality you prided yourselves for?

this fandom hasn't changed since the 2010s. it's just more quiet in the way it marginalizes victims of colonialism.

oh, and that person who told me to "block and move on, sister!!!" when it comes to me explaining myself as an uzbek-korean muslim?

you're not one to talk. 네가 뭘아는데 ㅅㅂ새끼야

#hetalia fandom #vent #disk horse #i cant wait to have a barrage of insults thrown at me again ♥️ #you need to go get your brain chemistry checked i think #hetalia #for those of you who comforted me during this time thank you all so so much #my mental health severely declined that week #i'm so grateful to have you as friends

[puffymucher]

I might have made a hazbin OC.. how did you figure out a story I'm struggling 😭

OH. GOD FINALLY AN EXCUSE TO POST HAZELS STORY

so, first- how did i come up with it? i tried to think about what i wanted for an oc- i wanted a hell hound, i wanted an "old fashion" butch inspired a lot by our narrator in the book "stone butch blues" (AMAZING read) and i wanted a country gal

so, how did i put that into my story? let's read the basic blurb of what i have first

----

Hazel was born into the gluttony ring, like a good amount of hellhounds are, but she wasn't exactly from the.. Best family. You always had to fight for your part, and if you were rude or out of line about it, you got snapped at to get in place or *starve.* Her family is mostly consistent of her and her handful of siblings (shes the first born in the litter, followed by Bolt [@mirconreadzztuff22 's oc!] and you can feel free to add on siblings if you'd like!! always ask me though LMAO), her parents, and her grandfather.

Her grandfather was actually the one who, when she was about to leave the family for work in Pentagon City, helped her dress up to look snazy. He would also comfort Hazel during the harder parts of her family moments, and even if he was the one who instilled some of the "manners" talk, he didn't feel exactly right about watching his grandpups starve, and he'd often sneak into the pup's room at night with small snacks to feed the ones who weren't fed

Once Hazel made it for the city, it was rough at first. Being a hound, she was treated like absolute DIRT, and constantly had to either fight or kill for her own survival (or, job) and a few years later in the city, that's when she saw applications for Vox Tech's Guard Initiative.

(I CANNOT DIVE MORE INTO IT WITHOUT SPOILING THE "Just A Simple Job" BUT a basic thing to note, most art of hazel herself is nearing half a decade she's worked for velvette! (if you're curious, Hazel in current time is just entering her 30's, she got the job with velvette around her mid 20's :^>)

Hazel was soon promoted up to Velvette's personal guard after that, and it was so significant that Hazel was constantly called and chided as her "lap dog" or "pet" by others, but never infront her or the overlord- It wasn't a good idea if you wanted to keep intact.

-------

the whole gyst of what i want her to be is in her roots and ties to hell itself n all that- shes a guard because hounds are expendable, and its setting up something that can be touched on in my scenes with her and velvette as i touch into their first day together you'll get to understand how exactly they got together

basic gyst of this shit though is have fun with it! who fucking cares if it makes sense why they kiss whoever!!!!! just have fun!

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel velvette #velvette x reader #hazbin hotel x reader #hazbin hotel oc #hazel info #oc blurb #if you guys are ever curious about her feel free to ask!

[warsamongthestars]

BAD BATCH (CHARACTERS) + ECHO HEADCANONS-- WITH STORIED BITS!

Because I was inspired by tags, why not a round of BB HCs?

Not TBB, just BBs. The characters, and I'm coming out the Clone Wars primarily, with only bits taken from TBB. ( Like a good fanfic, Let's steal back the small good things )

I know, I analyze--so let's see how far I can stretch it, yeah?

Today we are HCing...

99 AND THE 99 PROJECT

THE BAD BATCH'S MUTATIONS (Thus their abilities)

DOMINO SQUAD

( I would label it as Mature (Because I have a general idea of labelling), but Tumblr decided to be fucking hilarious about it--so I'm going ask you to be Mature. There's nothing explicit here, its about as snarky as a Discworld novel. So Guess that means its Teens and Up, PG-13, or whatever. )

99 INSPIRED THE 99's PROJECT

"Old man 99!? THE JANITOR FROM KAMINO!?"

Whether 99 was an alphagen or a first-gen, the idea here is based on small TCWs comments. Stuff about "Growth" tubes.

Its probably in the capitalist-eugenics aliens' (kaminonians) interest to skip the uncomfortable bits in natural human growth. After all the uncomfortable bits of human growth aren't Profitable.

So, have an age to load a clone into a growth tube, and just, rapidly grow them until they're the stage you want (to be profitable). This means skipping teenage years. It means skipping the small childhood years.

So, given that 99 is mature and capable, he was likely loaded into a growth tube about where his "teen years" would start... and it went horribly wrong. Aging him by decades instead of a few years.

And the 99 project, would be Nala Se's little project, to find out why it went so wrong--and then to fix it for future clones. Because after all, you can't have an army of old men.

And judging by the fact that 99 is the only Old Man Clone we've seen in TCWs, I imagine the project worked as intended--and like any greedy eugenic science-capitalist, Nala Se decided:

"Y'know, I could do something more with this. I could find the most common 'bugs' in our clone genome, and I could stretch them, and modify them, and make benefits out of these flaws."

And the 99s were created

ADDENDUM - on Growth Tubes

Growth Tubes would only be successful if the human brain was stimulated rapidly as the body grew, or you risk compromising the human brain. Its a very delicate organ and rapid growth would be very bad. So flash-training, basically rapidly dumping organized information and sensory input, would occur over the course of the rapid-growth. This is to ensure you have a nice healthy human brain afterwards. There are clones who did end up with a "leaky growth tube" (rumors about Hardcase), where the only issue hat ended up happening is a deficit in attention spans and impulsiveness.

What's significant about First-Gen clones, is that they mostly went the old fashioned way of growing--as in slow (but accelerated) growing. After First-Gen, Kaminonians decided: "No, this is not fast enough... and its too stressful, Teenage clones complaining about growing pains and having attitudes--its just too much. What do they think this is, a Human Domicile?"

Fast-Tracked clones are those who ended up in a growth tube the majority of their time, and even then, skipped steps once they were out. Domino Squad, being fast-tracked, maintained the "attitude" flaws characteristic of those who didn't spend a whole lotta time working with brothers out of the tube.

This is also why all "standard" clones look older than their early twenties. Many were grown out, biologically hitting the fast-forward on growing years to be fully grown. Chronologically, they are official "10". They only have 10 years of life, by the start of the war. Accelerated Aging measurement? 20. Because they are made to age twice as fast a normal humans. Biologically? Mid-20 to early 30s. It helps the resemblance to their prime, and avoids any possibilities of "late growth spurts". Luckily, clones are made to stay in their prime far longer than a normal human.

2. THE MUTATIONS OF THE BAD BATCH "They're non-standard but with abilities not seen in even normal humans."

The problem with finding a 'flaw' in a genome is that you have to ask...

a). Who is saying there is a Flaw? Are they someone you want saying that there is a flaw?

b). Why is it a flaw? ... But is it really?

c). what are they going to do to "remedy" the "flaw"? Is it an actual remedy, or are they just saying it is.

And being capitalist-eugenic scientists, who study the science of profiting from genes and geneing from profits, certain "flaws" are going to be the non-profitable kind.

They probably think its a terrible terrible sin, that the human genome is not naturally made to make capital.

But through this list of Flaws, Nala Se decided--"we can gene splice can't we? Yes, why shouldn't I gene splice. I can make much better clones through splicing."

After all, if you're going to make money from genes, in order to do more geneing, adding more Genes should surely add more Money.

FOR WRECKER...

(Shift from "canon"--for thematic reasons, this Wrecker is 9901)

Kaminonians are baffled by how strong and yet delicate humans are. They can lift 300 pounds, and yet can still get crushed to death by 300 pounds.

Its ridiculous, really.

So Nala Se took notes and samples from the beauty and gracefulness that is the Rancor.

And for her designated 9901, gave him near instantaneously recovering muscle, that could lift 3x the normal 300 pounds of health humans, and indestructible bones.

Why if an explosion were to hit 9901's face head on fro the left side--it would not, in fact, pulverize his skull or any the soft tissues the skull protects. The eye would absolutely be kriffed though.

Sure, the increased metabolism might be a bit too grand for the rations...

But the Kaminonians were assured--they are specially crafted rations, and the clone will just have to adapt. Humans can just, not be hungry after all, why it takes a month for an average human to starve! If the clone complains, well he is getting fed so he wont' starve. It's a bargain, after all. He's lucky the Kaminonians are even bothering.

FOR HUNTER...

( Shift from "canon"--for thematic reasons, Hunter is now 9903 )

The various pores of the human face always seemed to... leak to the Kaminoinans. Why do humans have to do so much leaking? Ought to make all those "face pores" that do their "poring", do actual useful work for once.

So for 9903, he got an ampullae. Plenty of the predators on the planet of Kamino had ampullae, and they seem to get along just fine.

Because of the odd small organ network that encompassed his face and down his neck, connecting various natural human senses such as scent, taste, sight, and hearing, 9903 proved to be passively sensitive towards electromagnetic fields. He would always know where North is on a planet. He would always know where he was at, and what was around him.

Why, the Kaminonians though, that would be PERFECT for droids! Droids have electric-magnetic fields!

... The unfortunate fact, that the Kamionians neglected to add, is that Everything produced an electromagnetic field, and super imposing upon natural humans senses of "being sensitive to particles" and "being naturally sensitive to atomic wavelengths"...

is that it would be a sensory nightmare. A cacophony of hell from the very world around him, to consume him utterly.

Well... The clone will just have to adapt, as the Kaminonains say. By the very coral reefs of Kamino, the clones are just not grateful for the work we do over their petty little lives.

FOR CROSSHAIR...

( For thematic purposes--we're keeping 9904 )

Humans have such tiny eyes, the Kaminonians think, how do they see so much if they're so tiny? and sensitive. By the whale song of the sea, Human eyes are just Too Sensitive.

So for 9904, they gave him super sight. But not just super sight, but super duper protected sight. They decided that the vestigial "third eyelid" had no business being vestigial anymore, the lazy little thing, and regave it life in 9904's eyes.

Why it could protect from Water, and Dust, and Bright Lights.

And they, the Kaminonians, were really reeving up now. Why just stop there? Give him reflectors. Let him see in the dark!

Why didn't we think to do this for all the clones?

Because sudden lights and sudden darkness, would mess up his eyes immediately. Because long term lights would cause a sensory overload. And long term darkness would cause (temporary) color blindness.

And no amount of protection stops a blaster to the face.

Well, thinks the Kaminonains, Its not as bad as the last ones.

FOR TECH...

( For thematic purposes... he is 9906. Yes, I like "Baby Tech", shush you. )

We know exactly what to do with this one, thinks the Kaminonians. Humans are just so... Dull. We load their brains nice and healthy, and they're still so dull.

We want at least one to have an intelligent conversation with.

I KNOW, LET'S MODEL THIS ONE AFTER US--THE KAMINONIANS! And we're geniuses you know, why shouldn't at least... one clone, be a genius like us.

For 9906, they attempted the daunting task of Modifying the Brain. Increasing memory retention and synapses flexibility. Awareness and understanding--a living computational organ.

And 9906 was Perfect.

... Save that he did not like Kaminonians, because healthy human brains, by any standard, tend to develop things like "Understanding" and "Feelings for and about other People", and tend to greatly dislike those who want to treat other people monstrously.

Why, 9906 even argued against the treatment of Clones. Clones are capable of thought and creation, they are a people and thus their own culture.

And the Kaminonians mourned. Clearly, all the work they put into this brain was for Nothing!

It only wants to learn about the galaxy and discover the beauties and wonders behind technology and space and peoples--why, it doesn't think of Profit or Genes at all!

It even argued that it wasn't a Product to be Sold, but a person to be talked to. The Kaminonians found this scoffful.

It would learn, the Kaminonians decided, oh it would learn.

ADDENDUM

What about 9902 and 9905? Well... Heheheh.

DOMINO SQUAD "A real domino effect, this one."

There are birth batches, and there are batch-squads. Birth-batches separate to all become batch-squads... but not all batch-squads are from the same birth-batch.

Such is the case of the fast-tracked "Domino Squad". Because they were fast-tracked, these clones spent an unpresidented time in the growth-tube. And worse, each one had a falling out with their original batch-squad.

The one that would be known as "Hevy" was overly confrontational, and prone to starting fights. He failed out of his original batch-squad for his attitude and physical violence.

He mellowed out, once he found that his aggression lead to serious consequence, but it didn't completely stop the fights or the lone wolfing. (Until after graduation).

The one that would be known as "Cutup" never took anything seriously, and his old trainers (and old squad) had enough. The trooper didn't even take regulations seriously, and was caught with contraband (Cutup couldn't believe that simple playing cards were "contraband", haven't they ever heard of a game before?)

The one that would be known as "Droidbait", tended to give up too easily, in a total reverse to "Hevy's" situation. Surrender is not acceptable, and he'll have to relearn the hard way.

The one that would be known as "Fives", ironically, did not have a poor record following him for anything he did. Half of his birth-batch-squad were found deceased after a training exercise. The survivors were sent elsewhere. For this, Fives was a quiet, serious but very anxious cadet and rookie until he hit arc-trooper. He kept even his name close. Just in case. Fives got to watch one of the survivors graduate with Bravo Squad. He never found out what happened to him after that.. but he doesn't assume its good.

Always have to adapt on the fly, because if you don't, the situation might just kill you. No matter how "Safe" everyone says it is. In fact, especially if its "Safe".

The one that would be known as "Echo" was the most devious.

By all accounts, Echo was a stand up trooper--he read the regulations and followed them to the letter. He took pleasure in buffing his armor and uniform. He could recite exact rules, was perfect in inspections. He knew exactly where everything is and how to act as expected. A true "By the Book" trooper. Why, what could ever be wrong with Echo?

Because if you look like you belong, and if you know the rules, you can do Anything. And Echo, he knew that people knew that the Way Things Act were often considered more important than What Things Actually Are, but you still have to Play Expectations if you want to get what you want.

And Echo, he tended to learn how play expectations. The fact is, while it was considered an accident and misunderstanding--Echo put himself in a position to get transferred away from his old birth-squad.

( He had nothing against his old birth-batch. They were fine lads. But Echo refused to be canon-fodder. If he was going to go out into the galaxy and make a difference, he was going to do it his way--if he was going to get blown up, it was because he damn well decided he was going to get blown up, not because a general told him to. )

Yes it would mean being held back. But such is the price of prep work (He certainly didn't feel like he was ready--and he wanted to test the waters a bit longer), and well, there had to be brothers on Kamino, who actually think about what they're being told--not just blinding follow without consideration.

And you can only work the rules to your liking, if you know what the rules are. Good thing Echo likes to read.

ADDENDUM

Reason Birth-batch and Batch-Squad are separate, is because the general idea is that they birth clones enmass, but since we only ever see cadets in squads, they aren't necessarily trained enmass.

There had to be a reason why Echo had the Balls to jump Rank and talk to a General, as a cadet, as request transfer.

None of the numbers of Domino Squad match up to indicate that they're apart of the "Birth-Batch". So this sugested to me that they might be from different batches--and thusly, are probably a "throw them together" squad.

#star wars #the clone wars #the bad batch #star wars the clone wars #star wars the bad batch #sw tcws #sw tbb #star wars head cannons #star wars headcanon analysis #analysis #star wars hunter #star wars crosshair #star wars wrecker #star wars tech #star wars echo #clone trooper echo #star wars fives #clone trooper fives #clone trooper hevy #clone trooper cutup #clone trooper droidbait #clone trooper 99 #kaminonians #sw headcanons #sw fanfiction #well its story-telling enough that it might as well be fanfiction too #i inflinct my headcanons story stuffs upon you like a meteor shower over a northern hemisphere factory #you are welcome (maybe)

[thepastisalreadywritten]

(CNN) — Jack Latham was on a mission to photograph farms in Vietnam — not the country’s sprawling plantations or rice terraces but its “click farms.”

Last year, the British photographer spent a month in the capital Hanoi documenting some of the shadowy enterprises that help clients artificially boost online traffic and social media engagement in the hope of manipulating algorithms and user perceptions.

The resulting images, which feature in his new book “Beggar’s Honey,” provide rare insight into the workshops that hire low-paid workers to cultivate likes, comments and shares for businesses and individuals globally.

“When most people are on social media, they want nothing but attention — they’re begging for it,” Latham said in a phone interview, explaining his book’s title.

“With social media, our attention is a product for advertisers and marketers.”

In the 2000s, the growing popularity of social media sites — including Facebook and Twitter, now called X — created a new market for well-curated digital profiles, with companies and brands vying to maximize visibility and influence.

Though it is unclear when click farms began proliferating, tech experts warned about “virtual gang masters” operating them from low-income countries as early as 2007.

In the following decades, click farms exploded in number — particularly in Asia, where they can be found across India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, the Philippines, and beyond.

Regulations have often failed to keep pace: While some countries, like China, have attempted to crack down on operations (the China Advertising Association banned the use of click farms for commercial gain in 2020), they continue to flourish around the continent, especially in places where low labor and electricity costs make it affordable to power hundreds of devices simultaneously.

‘Like Silicon Valley startups’

Latham’s project took him to five click farms in Vietnam.

(The click farmers he hoped to photograph in Hong Kong “got cold feet,” he said, and pandemic-related travel restrictions dashed his plans to document the practice in mainland China).

On the outskirts of Hanoi, Latham visited workshops operating from residential properties and hotels.

Some had a traditional setup with hundreds of manually operated phones, while others used a newer, compact method called “box farming” — a phrase used by the click farmers Latham visited — where several phones, without screens and batteries, are wired together and linked to a computer interface.

Latham said one of the click farms he visited was a family-run business, though the others appeared more like a tech companies.

Most workers were in their 20s and 30s, he added.

“They all looked like Silicon Valley startups,” he said. “There was a tremendous amount of hardware … whole walls of phones.”

Some of Latham’s photos depict — albeit anonymously — workers tasked with harvesting clicks.

In one image, a man is seen stationed amid a sea of gadgets in what appears to be a lonely and monotonous task.

“It only takes one person to control large amounts of phones,” Latham said. “One person can very quickly (do the work of) 10,000. It’s both solitary and crowded.”

At the farms Lathan visited, individuals were usually in charge of a particular social media platforms.

For instance, one “farmer” would be responsible for mass posting and commenting on Facebook accounts, or setting up YouTube platforms where they post and watch videos on loop.

The photographer added that TikTok is now the most popular platform at the click farms he visited.

The click farmers Latham spoke to mostly advertised their services online for less than one cent per click, view or interaction.

And despite the fraudulent nature of their tasks, they seemed to treat it like just another job, the photographer said.

‘There was an understanding they were just providing a service,” he added. “There wasn’t a shadiness. What they’re offering is shortcuts.”

Deceptive perception

Across its 134 pages, “Beggar’s Honey” includes a collection of abstract photographs — some seductive, others contemplative — depicting videos that appeared on Latham’s TikTok feed.

He included them in the book to represent the kind of content he saw being boosted by click farms.

But many of his photos focus on the hardware used to manipulate social media —webs of wires, phones and computers.

“A lot of my work is about conspiracies,” Latham said. ” Trying to ‘document the machines used to spread disinformation’ is the tagline of the project. The bigger picture is often the thing we don’t see.”

Click farms around the world are also used to amplify political messages and spread disinformation during elections.

In 2016, Cambodia’s then-prime minister Hun Sen was accused of buying Facebook friends and likes, which according to the BBC he denied, while shadowy operations in North Macedonia were found to have spread pro-Donald Trump posts and articles during that year’s US presidential election.

While researching, Latham said he found that algorithms — a topic of his previous book, “Latent Bloom” — often recommended videos that he said got increasingly “extreme” with each click.

“If you only digest a diet of that, it’s a matter of time you become diabetically conspiratorial,” he said.

“The spreading of disinformation is the worst thing. It happens in your pocket, not newspapers, and it’s terrifying that it’s tailored to your kind of neurosis.”

Hoping to raise awareness of the phenomenon and its dangers, Latham is planning to exhibit his own home version of a click farm — a small box with several phones attached to a computer interface — at the 2024 Images Vevey Festival in Switzerland.

He bought the gadget in Vietnam for the equivalent of about $1,000 and has occasionally experimented with it on his social media accounts.

On Instagram, Latham’s photos usually attract anywhere from a few dozen to couple hundred likes.

But when he deployed his personal click farm to announce his latest book, the post generated more than 6,600 likes.

The photographer wants people to realize that there’s more to what they see on social media — and that metrics aren’t a measurement of authenticity.

“When people are better equipped with knowledge of how things work, they can make more informed decisions,” he said.

“Beggar’s Honey,” co-published by Here Press and Images Vevey, is available now.

#Jack Latham #click farms #box farms #Hanoi #Vietnam #Beggar’s Honey #box farming #social media #algorithms #user perception #trolls #PR #marketing #advertising #likes #comments #shares #digital profiles #virtual gang masters #bots #spam #China Advertising Association #click farmers #mass post #disinformation #misinformation #fake news #metrics

[thedreadvampy]

like clockwork someone who's been openly a sex pest for decades gets named as a rapist and sexual predator and we all get to play the hit parade with such classics as:

oh my god oh my god did you know this industry full of rich people who are rewarded for exploitative and abusive behaviour...has an issue with rape and abuse??? CAN YOU BELIEVE THERE'S ABUSE IN THIS INDUSTRY???? (yeah man we know. we've known for quite a while actually. for longer than I've been alive for sure.)

oh my god I can't believe there are rapists among us (1 in 3 women have experienced rape, who do you think is doing it?)

but he seemed so nice! (not really tbh)

well I met him and he never raped me and like, I'm really hot so if he was really a rapist he would have (Jesus fuck get help)

is it really rape to fuck 16 year old girls when you're in your 30s? (yeah it is if you fucking rape them mate)

can't believe everyone knew but never said!!! (they literally did say and also hey imagine if you will what reasons there might be too not say anything, such as, say, it's not your story to tell and the victim had expressed a wish to not be at the centre of a whole shitstorm)

Real Victims wouldn't go to journalists they'd go to the cops!!! (hey guys I have some upsetting news about the experience of reporting rape to the cops)

This is a conspiracy to make this irrelevant celebrity look bad! (please touch grass)

it's all just a bit of fun innit (no)

and every time we all over again have to go to this place where rape is simultaneously a significant threat and common experience (agreed) but also everyone who's ever talked about being raped is lying, and nobody's ever done a rape even if there's 20 years of documented evidence and on camera confessions and also their whole public persona is 'cheeky sex pest' (fucking. what?)

and then that guy hopefully gets cancelled and people feel a bit more guilty about watching him. and then they'll go HOORAY THE EVIL IS DEFEATED WE HAVE GOT RID OF THAT GUY THAT DID THE RAPES. OUR WORK HERE IS DONE. COMEDY/FILM/MUSIC/TV IS FREE OF PREDATORS NOW

and then 6.5 seconds later allegations will come out about someone else and we will start the whole thing again from scratch OH MY GOD CAN YOU BELIEVE THERE'S ABUSE IN THIS INDUSTRY???

#red said #it gets SO under my skin like how are people STILL SURPRISED????? #like this happens SO OFTEN you canNOT still find it this unexpected??? #especially when it's someone like Russell Brand who is the kind of 2000s comedian who built his entire career on predatory misogyny as a bi #like I'm sorry I'm sorry this isn't a time you so moment #but some people you're like oh that's disappointing. he seemed like he might be sound. #others though. you cannot tell me at any point in the last 20 years anyone's looked at Russell fucking Brand #and not thought at least a little bit oh this man's a fucking nonce #'russell brand predated on teenage girls for years' may be up there in the least surprising sentences I've ever heard #i have never seen a man who's more obviously used to regularly using the phrase 'I waited until her 16th birthday so it's fine' #the fucking fedora ass incorrectly loquacious cult vibes '''''ironic''''' hipster misogyny known-in-thr-scene creepster #like we all know that guy right? sometimes he's a famous comedian and sometimes he's a 38 year old musician who only ever #dates girls under 18 and hangs out at spots frequented by students trying to show off both how hip he is and how he's got Adult Money #but the vibes. the vibes. tbf a lot of those fuckers in the 2000s were probably also modelling their vibes off him also. #the looming monster of rape in the abstract

[powerpolyculeshowdown]

Idk if you know but Izutsumi is actually 17. It's not stated in canon but it's in the adventures guide so

oh huh i had no idea... i know falin must be 20 cause laios said hes 23 and im p sure they are 3 years apart, and laios said tallmen/humans however u wanna call them reach adulthood at 16 but idk if he meant his country or the race as a whole, so im not sure if that makes izutsumi a minor or not? also idk if it changes due to her being beastkin?

i mean ofc from our perspective she would be, but this is a fantasy setting w different ages of maturity, for example chilchuck said halflings reach adulthood at 14, due to their shorter lifespans, im just curious if for izutsumi adulthood would also be 16 like laios or if maybe eastern standards in the world of dunmeshi is different?

If it's the same, while she's not a minor that is still a three year age gap for izutsumi and falin, with izutsumi barely being an adult, add to that the fact idk how old marcille is or when she wouldve reached adulthood, i can see ur concern.

ill leave them out due to the blurred lines there, but in general i think its important to remember fantasy people dont necessarily age the same way we do, if beastkin age anywhere as fast as halflings, at 17 izutsumi would be older than a 17y/o tallman. thats all hypothetical ofc, and not really an attempt to justify the age difference, more so genuine curiosity about how ages work for her since idk if thats established? im still shocked a 29y/o halfling is old enough to have 3 adult kids for example, but then again they live an average of 50 years so it makes sense? I think the differences are really interesting! because despite only being 6 years apart, chilchuck is inherently a lot older than laios due to their racial traits and customs. Laios is a young adult and chilchuck is more like a middle aged man. Meanwhile, to Senshi and Marcille, 29 sounds like a baby, which means a 29y/o elf or dwarf would probaably be perceived by their own race as younger than even laios is to other tallmen, if that makes sense? at 30 smth senshi was treated like a kid by an older dwarf, maybe thats equivalent to their teens?

Now im just rambling though, i know that's not what the ask was about, it just had me wondering. In a context like this age can be more than a number due to racial traits and lifespans, but since izutsumi is probably closer to a human and idk if beastkin age differently or not, i'd agree that shes quite young especially compared to marcille who's probably a bit older than falin herself (well shes a lot older by literal decades but i imagine only a bit older if you consider elves probably reach adulthood a lot later which likely means marcille is a young adult herself?)

i also havent finished the manga so its difficult to form more concrete opinions on the matter but i hope i explained myself well? i do very much think a 17 year old in real life is a child, i was just rambling about this fantasy world and wondering how different things might be. if their 16 is our 18 then their 17 is our 19 and their 20 is our 22. I dont remember how mature I was at 19 but as a 22y/o i dont think id have felt comfortable dating someone 3 years younger personally? i still dont tbh

oh wow i scrolled back and realized i rambled too much im sorry about that its just my brain is full of dunmeshi!! still, let me know if i misunderstood the age mechanics of this story! Regardless, ill leave them out, thanks for letting me know!

#long post #polyasks #dungeon meshi #anon #their friendship is still v cute tho and not everything has to be romance #izutsumi in cat mode demanding pats from marcille was v cute #then back to normal self awkwardly comforting marcille #theyre besties

[some-triangles]

It's Portland's annual new year blizzard/ice storm, which we are unprepared for every year, because this never used to happen. It barely snowed here when I was a kid! I was a kid 30 years ago, mind you, and this has been happening pretty consistently for the last 20, but institutions are slow to change. We have been spending our money on other things.

So here I am, sitting in my own living room (my own in the sense that I rent it), in my long johns and thermals and two pairs of socks, heat on, still gradually losing feeling in my toes. This seems like a good day to write the politics post.

I belong to the category of person who expresses political and moral beliefs mostly through jokes, and only then when my personal frustration has reached a point where I can no longer make myself be quiet. The jokes are there to make the pain less raw, but lately the jokes themselves are getting dark enough that it's upsetting people. So let's proceed without the jokes.

Where to begin? In the 90s, I guess. I was brought up liberal but cynical, which is already kind of a tense balance, and I was by inclination a person who wanted things to make sense and follow understandable rules. (The answer is as always neurodivergence.) I figured out that religion wasn't real by looking at a map and realizing that the world was too big for any one group of people to be right about things. Despite this, I still thought American democracy was the correct answer, the least bad option, and that the world as a whole was heading towards where I was, a kind of tolerant, reasonable middle class existence.

In my defense, this was a belief broadly shared by my parents' generation, and I hadn't been taught a lot of the stuff that argued against it. Francis Fukuyama got up in front of people and declared the world a solved problem and nobody important even laughed at him. I bought into this to the extent that I suffered from a kind of wistful sadness that all the important battles had already been fought. In short, I was a child, and not a particularly bright one, despite what people told me. I did, however, form a belief that stays with me to this day:

I AM NOT SPECIAL. I, personally, do not deserve any more or any less than any human being. And since I think I should be safe and well fed, every other human being should also be safe and well fed. The fact that I am better off than some others is an accident which should be rectified.

This came about because I was aware that a lot of the people in the world were poor and miserable and I wasn't, and I had to decide whether luck or virtue was responsible for my safety. I went with luck. I didn't realize it at the time, but this choice put me at odds with a lot of the logic underlying the society I live in - because if I'm not special, you better believe nobody else is either, and that means no elect, no chosen, none blessed by god, none elevated by blood. I was 10, I hadn't even had a chance to fuck up my life yet, and yet there were all these other 10-year-olds worse off than me. Did they deserve that? And what about those kids who had it better?

And so, decades later, we end up with the joke about how it's a good deal to trade your life away to take out a rich person. It's the same impulse, just with a lot of broken promises and bitterness stacked on top. I work full time at a job that's officially essential (no stoppage during the pandemic), strenuous, and physically dangerous - I get paid the 1993 equivalent of a little less than $30k a year - I will never be able to afford a home in the city I grew up in. This job has to be done. I am not special, I do not "deserve" a better job. I, as a working person, watch people who do jobs that do not need to be done or who don't work at all get paid more because they are members of an invisible elect. I conclude that they must believe they are worth more than me, that they are better than me, because how else could they justify their lives? And I think if I subscribed to that worldview, it would be a net win for me to blow both of us up. Thus, the joke.

I also watch the rest of the world. My belief in liberal democracy is a pretty aerated Jenga tower by this point. Learning about America's imperial history took out a bunch of pieces, but I could still believe all that was behind us. Then we went back to war, which I could initially write off as a traumatic reaction, but as years turned into decades it became obvious that peace had been the exception, and that even that peace hadn't been that peaceful, had it? At that point it was still possible to believe that at least all of our bombing and killing had been in the interest of some kind of moral good, if you really tried. I think Gaza killed the very last part of me that could believe that. There is no atrocity we will not enable to pursue our own ends. Does it matter that much what kind of system we use to choose our leaders if this is what our leaders do?

The last thing keeping my tower standing is the need to protect the outgroups I and my friends belong to, which doesn't really rise to the level of a moral imperative. It's a moment by moment strategic thing, where you support institutions if they protect you and oppose them if they attack you, like any interest group. Right now HR culture and capitalism are trending pro-trans, so we support Disney against Florida. We will do voter suppression if the alternative is Trump. It doesn't go well with rule number one up there, but neither does the fact that I care about my friends more than I care about people I don't know.

At the end of the day it's all a joke. Moral imperatives give way to political reality one hundred percent of the time. It doesn't matter what I call myself. I hate tech culture, so why not be a Luddite? I'll smash steam looms in my mind while continuing to pay for my groceries. Just let me have my jokes. Trashfuture did a great riff about Butlerian Jihad the other day where they imagined a butler named Ian Jihad. "I've oriented sir's slippers towards Mecca, sir." That's the kind of political commentary I want, and the kind I will refrain from posting here unless my toes are really, really cold.

#in which I try to explain why black humor is the best I can do these days

[talisidekick]

"These transgenders are trying to spread their agenda to trans the kids!"

"The vaccines are turning the kids gay! It's their agenda!"

No no, let me explain; you got it backwards. The older generation doesn't change the younger generation. That's not how the world works. The younger generation always changes the world.

Stonewall? That whole spark that started pride? That wasn't the 1910's and 20's kids marching to show the world "we're here, we're queer, get over it" to make the 30's and 40's kids gay. It was the 30's and 40's kids having enough of the world being shitty to them in their 20's and 30's that they stood up and just said "we deserve to be gay", ie, happy, and aimed to make the older generation recognize they could be homosexual or bisexual too if they wanted.

So no, the 80's, 90's, 2000's kids aren't trying to turn kids gay. We're trying to turn more of our generation and the older generation that started this gayer. More trans. More queer. It's not about children, it's about the generations older than them. It always has been.

The power of the world lies in the hands of 40 - 70 year olds. And if there is upset about the generation the older generations actions sowed? There's none more upset than the generation that has been subjected to the results of the repeated incompetence of the generation before them. A lacking response to a deadly global pandemic, a continued lacking response to a deadly global endemic virus known to cause neurological problems, conspiracy theories that absolve others of life endangering action, market crashes, repeated recessions, inflation without a rise in pay, impossibly high living expenses, increasing intolerance and discrimination, and the cherry atop all of this? A manufactured panic around a minority that makes up less than 1% of the population as a distraction from all of that. The pandemic had people living in conditions worse than the great depression, and many still haven't escaped that. Banks are going bankrupt, and the people 40 - 70 in power are shouting the biggest issue is something that was resolved decades ago.

We're not making kids queer, we're trying to make an older generation in power more tolerant so the kids can live in a less perilous, more accepting world. That's the agenda.

#talisidekick #talisidekick things #rant #2slgbtqia+ #2slgbtqia #lgbtqia+ #lgbtqia #lgbtq+ #lgbtq #lgbt+ #lgbt #transgender #trans #queer #literally had someone say the two quoted lines to me and my response was “the agenda is to be queer with a reasonable standard of living” #but I felt this needed flushing out.

[yesterdaysnewts]

Something that i think is an often overlooked aspect of apocalyptic media is how accents and language would be affected by the long term isolation from large society.

For this example, to get my point across, I'll invent a small group of survivors living together. They vary in background but at most there is 20-30 and they've been together for say 10-20 years.

Now within the group there isn't many people, it's close knit, everyone knows everyone meaning that over the decade or two they've been together, the people would've developed a unanimous accent of sorts. By no means would they all have had the exact same accent, many lived across wherever they are before the outbreak but over the years, the fact their sole interaction with other people has been the same people will impact how they speak.

If some of the people in the community have a texan accent, others are gonna adopt a texan twang. If theres some Italians, Italian twang. Mancs, Manc twang. It goes on.

I feel I'm a bit shit at explaining but this is something that happens with those folks that spend like 7 months in Antarctica. They are predominantly interacting with the same people for that long a time, their accent changes. Heres a video on it and an article. It interesting shit.

Different aspects of language would also be adopted. Slang changes, for example where I live, no was calling vapes and e-cigs chongs 10-15 years ago and barely anyone calls their sibling our kid anymore compared to 10-15 years ago. It is ever changing and we humans are big fans of taking common phrases from other people and using them ourselves.

If within a group of people, there are some people that use owt and nowt instead of anything and nothing then slowly the whole group might start using them words. Someone calls getting drunk pished, others start using the word. Language is ever evolving.

However much I'd love to see stuff like this implemented into the apocalyptic genre, it is a hassle, especially for tv and film.

Teaching an entire main cast a non-exist amalgamation of accents is do-able just takes long as fuck and arguably no one is willing to do it.

However the language I want to see.

#ahhhhh brain #owen rambles #apocalypse #post apocalyptic #writing #ive not re read this at all

[miodiodavinci]

omg i get so excited hearing about dnd!!!! how many campaigns have you been in if u mind answering?

i don't mind at all ! ! ! ! i enjoy talking about dnd ! ! ! ! our group got together in 2020 has run a total of (counts on fingers) 6 campaigns and 5 one shots, with our average campaign length being around 20 to 30 sessions. each person's taken a shot at DM'ing thus far, but the forever DM and i have both run about four of those each w

also, outside of one or two one shots, it's all been exclusively homebrew ! ! ! which is fun because we've all gotten to create our own regions and design overarching lore that connects each campaign to the other ! ! ! (surprisingly, hannus barbarous is usually the connecting factor. we did not plan this but that's just how it is now KJSFLKJH)

and because i love talking about dnd so much i'm taking this opportunity to dump a whole lot of summary of each campaign/one shot in chronological order under the cut w

ON A SCALE of ONE to TWENTY .. campaign

After being shut off from the world for over a hundred years, the region of Celosia finally opens its doors, sending out an open letter to all would-be adventurers asking for help. Our party just so happened to be the fools who decided to answer (and who got lucky enough to not get eaten by wolves on the way there), and have been tasked with taking down the shadowy Emerald Division that has seemingly come to power. They'll get to it as soon as they visit the dump (it's on the way).

Our DM's first homebrew campaign and the result of all of us being stuck inside and realizing we finally had time to play together w. This was the origin of both Hannus Barbarous as a running gag (along the lines of "this is JUST like Thomas and Jeremiah") and the name Scott as a throwaway bit, and also the origin of "The Coolest Emerald Division" title w

Characters

Roachcock the Tiefling Barbarian (played by me) .. bastard at heart, just wants to split heads, get coin, and buy a boat

Babey Möd the Halfling-Tabaxi Cleric (played by @anonprotagging) .. here to eat gravy and spread the good word of Lyra

The Storm the Water Genasi Barbarian .. he's super famous dude just trust me i heard he once fought like thirty turkeys

In'hala the Tiefling Paladin of Pan .. looking for her lost moms and also stealing this guy's boots hahaaa sick

Opus Whitfield the Human Wild Magic Sorcerer .. trying to use this opportunity to set up a new storefront for his family's gem cutting business, is actually using this opportunity to get bullied

note: i don't know if the other players use tumblr so for now they'll just be identified as "Xs player" from here on out w

GRANNY'S COUNTRY APPLE PIE .. one shot

An aging wizard wishes to taste the sweet delight of Granny's Country Apple Pie™ one last time (despite the bakery closing decades ago) and thus tasks our heroes with scoping out the place and seeing if they can find a recipe. Somewhere along the way, things got weird and it turns out Granny was just an immortal 65 year old who was taking a vacation in the outer planes with her wife but she's back now :)

Pre-built one shot that very quickly went off the rails, as to be expected for my very first go at being a DM after being a player for less than 4 months. The first appearance of Hannus as an actual character and not just a running bit.

Characters

Hannus Barbarous the Half-Orc playwright and Bard (played by @anonprotagging) .. he's taking a break from his prestigious play writing career to see the sights and reconnect with the little piece of him that was shattered when his troupe broke apart (but not too much of a break not to sign every autograph he can eyyy)

Sir the Eternal Flame (and sorcerer i guess) (played by Opus's player) .. still frustrated at being locked in human form, this giant immortal moth is off doing busy work until his curse wears off (which apparently includes bakery heists???)

Tehn the Sun Elf Ranger (played by the Celosia campaign DM) .. with their giant bumblebee Spoobin and frankly obscene lack of dietary standards at their side, there's no meal that they can't tackle

THE OSSIFIED GARDENS .. mini campaign

Taking shelter from the rain in an unearthly structure, the gang is snatched away from the physical realm and into a crab bucket-like hotel for the fae. With their most prized possessions taken from them as an entry fee, the gang has to endure arduous tasks to receive the stamps of each of the five Managers in order to receive audience with the minor god who runs the establishment. Whether or not she'll be willing to give their possessions back, however...

My first solo campaign as a DM!! Heavily inspired by Spirited Away and mostly an excuse to put old game dev content to use (including a literal circus of NPCs), but ended up serving as an important event in the Hannus Barbarous lore.

Characters

Hannus Barbarous the Half-Orc playwright and Bard (played by @anonprotagging) .. on the road with Tehn to visit a trinket faire in the next town over, about to experience beginning of a long and scalding beef with a petty minor god

Tehn the Sun Elf Ranger (played by the Celosia campaign DM) .. Hannus and Tehn are best friends now—they're having soft tacos later! :)

Piers the Minotaur Cleric (played by Opus's player) .. he's just along for the ride—maybe there will be cool books! :oooo

Tess the Halfling Rogue (played by In'hala's player) .. laying low until the folks in charge of her latest warrant lose track of her (and by laying low i mean just stealing at waist height instead of top shelves)

ROLL to PHOTOBOMB .. campaign

A seemingly normal winter festival goes astray when our heroes poor fools accidentally soul-bond to an extraplanar device meant to be a birthday present for the renowned sculptor hosting the ball (spoilers: it's a camera). They have four months to take it north to Cobalt City, get the re-calibration redone, and get it back in time for her wife to give it to her for their anniversary. The only problem is, the mountain pass is closed and the only other way there is a several hundred mile road trip by wagon...

Time to take some photos in front of some kitschy roadside attractions, I guess.

Opus's player's first time DM'ing for our group (though they'd DM'd before, and frankly—their experience shows). This campaign was home to some of our most beloved NPCs like Cassidy the subterranean super organism, Barry the extraplanar knife slime, and Sir the Eternal Flame Moth (he got that curse figured out finally!)

Characters

Fafnir of the Boreal North, the human knight Mimic Berserker (played by me) .. they just wanted to leave their dungeon to find a better, damper place to sit and eat and somehow accidentally took part in the funniest case of mistaken identity this side of Alcione

Ranger Rain Rainer the human Ranger (and literal park ranger, played by @anonprotagging) .. originally here to supervise the environmental impacts of the ball on the local landscape, now soul-bound to an extraplanar camera and havin' a good ol' time hangin' with the boys :) y'want some soy sauce with that? i bought a gallon back in brass junction

Kit the Elven Ranger (played by Tehn's player) .. legitimately so traumatized he wraps back around to being the most normal person in this group—just don't mention Celestine Grove

Babu the Hobgoblin Artificer (played by the Storm's player) .. having been separated from his parents and raised by Kobolds, Babu, his steel defender Babu, and his clockwork creation Little Babu are on a long journey to reunite with them in Grand Arbor .. please do not look at him he's sensitive

THE GREAT COCKATRICE RACE .. one shot

It's that time of year—the Great Cockatrice Race is upon us!! But just as our party is soaking in the sights and staking out the perfect spot to watch, they witness a young tiefling have his cockatrice's racing gear shredded by a local gang. Desperate to win so he can help pay to treat his father's worsening eyesight (they're cartographers by trade), he asks the party for help, and they quickly oblige.

Another one shot run by me, based loosely on a one-page campaign document. Not much to say about this one beyond the fact that everyone was ready to kill for Noodles the bantam cockatrice.

Characters

Actias Saturnid the Aasimar Paladin (played by @anonprotagging) .. on a quest to popularize his deity's chosen form of entertainment—tinker vision (TV for short)

Squish the Changeling Bard (played by Tehn's player) .. here to have fun and maybe also look for his friend that went missing have you seen her please tell me i miss her ;_____;

Kai the ??? Swashbuckling Rogue (played by Opus's player) .. it's a big festival, and that means plenty of eyes and plenty of cash! not a half bad time to try negotiating some new patrons for her artist friends

TROUBLE at PORT MANDRET .. one shot

What was originally supposed to be the 58th annual showcase of Umbergate University's horticultural collection is turned sour as an incensed former professor unleashes a powerful awakening spell on the entire town. With only a few hours before the plants release spores that will spread the spell to the entire world, our party has to act fast and cooperate with a local mycologist who seems to know just the fix to this predicament.

Another one shot from me, this time entirely homebrewed! This is also the origin of Scott as a character and not just a throwaway bit, and very much the source of his dynamic with Hannie. They found him tangled up in a bunch of kudzu in a coffee shop and he sent them on a long fetch quest to help him make a cup of coffee using stolen coffee beans.

Characters

Hannus Barbarous the Half-Orc playwright and bard (you know his player by now w) .. you know, he was just trying to lay low after the whole "committing arson" thing, but now he has a gay little mushroom twink to look after and that's (????)

Tehn the Sun Elf Ranger (played by you know who w).. also laying low after helping Hannus commit arson, but mostly here to eat a bunch of plants when no one's looking

Hank the Aarakocra Barbarian (played by Opus's player) .. he's a goose who only says "HANK" and i love that so much about him

Quinn the literal, unawakened, plain old animal tiger and Rogue (played by the Storm's player) .. the reason Hannus and Tehn committed arson after discovering she was being kept in squalid conditions by a wealthy family .. i cannot stress enough that she is a literal, un-enchanted tiger

THE ENIGMA of DAHL CREEK .. campaign

Their boat having sank in a storm, the party washes up on a seemingly once populous island now drowning under webs of unidentifiable blue-green vines and the eerily human-like shapes it creates. Working to unravel the mystery of how the entire town disappeared one August day, they find the past and present blurring together in a strange and haunting way.

The Celosia campaign DM's next big campaign, and frankly the one that haunts me most to this day. I cannot put into words how fucking good this campaign was. Legitimately gave me chills and occupies a region of my brain that cannot be vacated.

Characters

Hannus Barbarous (you know him) .. just trying to recover from the fae thing and the tiger incident and then the Port Mandret fiasco and really doesn't need this right now (but deal he will)

Biscott Cortinarius the human mycologist and Necromancer (played by me) .. putting a little distance between himself and the university due to the ""legal ramifications of interviewing university property without familial consent,"" but mostly sticking with Hannus because he's a bard and... well... bards aren't exactly beefy are they ;)

The Destitution of Mires the Lizardfolk Circle of Spores Druid (played by the Storm's Player) .. to this day i still don't know what their deal was, only that they sensed and so they came, and they left just as easily

Theo the ??? Circle of Dreams Druid (played by Opus's player) .. wanted to get out there and see the world, managed to sneak onto the one and Only boat that shipwrecked that day, now paying for it dearly

TIDECLEFT ISLES .. campaign

When the great Captain Wicke died, he arranged in his will that his treasure was to be given to the pirates of Tidecleft—so long as they could find it. Having arranged a massive, death-defying posthumous treasure hunt, several teams (including our heroes) must now compete to locate Wicke's treasure if they want to claim it all for themselves. What the late captain has in store for them, however, may call the worth of the treasure into question.

The Storm's player's first time DM'ing for our group, but not his first time DM'ing by far (read: he was Tehn's player's forever DM long before he came to our group). This was a grand old romp around a bunch of islands and sea caves that culminated in a frankly off-the-walls batshit final battle.

Characters

Acanthus of the Western Isles, the Mano (shark man) Scholar (played by me) .. a doctor and academic seeking to pay off a massive debt he incurred thanks to the Silver Lampreys and their web of loan sharks .. he doesn't care for jokes... or laughing, or puns, or metaphorical language or

Lemon the Warforged Circle of Stars Druid (played by @anonprotagging) .. realized she's accrued like twenty years in paid time off from working as a docent in an observatory, now taking her first vacation with her best friend Owen Gnome :) (he's a garden gnome she found outside and decided to keep in her pocket) (may or may not be venomous)

Bellamy the ??? ??? (played by Opus's player) .. ever grateful to the squid trawlers that took him in, he's competing in this hunt to earn enough to turn their venture into a franchise .. he is shockingly normal despite the whole "may not be from this plane" thing

Rayin the Tiefling Storm Sorcerer (played by Tehn's player) .. having received that sweet sweet "got hit by a magical explosion on campus" money and gotten magical powers out of it, Rayin is ditching academia to do COOL things like throw lightning bolts and meow at people

these character descriptors are getting long sorry

MIETTE SIMULATOR .. one shot

Somehow, our band of unfortunate souls has wandered into a town caught in a frenzy, raving for the execution of a seemingly normal tiefling man for an unspeakable crime (literally, no one will say what it was). The gang decides to get to the bottom of this, only to discover the very laws of reality are essentially optional in this neck of the woods.

Hannus's player's first time DM'ing as a dry run for his future one shot, and it was a hoot. Also the first time we got to meet Ranger Rainer's brother, Shine Rainer (who is the polar opposite of his brother thanks to all the trauma that comes with being a record keeper).

Characters

Lark the Aasimar Gunslinger (played by me) .. just trying to do as many good deeds as possible to get her dad off her back so she can get a girlfriend without him scaring her off with his whole "incomprehensible being of holy light" thing

Clare the human ??? (played by Tehn's player) .. i don't remember why she was there she just was and she was probably the most okay with everything that was going on

Hank the Aarakocra Barbarian (played by Opus's player) .. he's playing it cool after the Port Mandret thing, except this is not cool this is chaos

MOON TOWN .. one shot

It's Actias! And he needs help! For some reason, they've been disconnected from their god, and they can't figure out why! When our heroes decide to help, they end up getting snatched away to an otherworldly version of the long abandoned Sun Town and need to solve the mystery of a long cold case in order to find their way back home.

Hannus's player's main group DM'ing debut. Full of fun puzzles and good laughs (I'll never forget Actias asking us for help with a puzzle and showing us one of those shapes and holes boxes you give to kids) with plenty of throwbacks to old running gags. Felt like a nice homage to what DnD had been for us thus far.

Characters

Calamund Galbraith the Reborn Echo Fighter (played by me) .. a completely average guy who just so happened to get roped into getting "engaged" to a wraith that now endlessly pursues him .. he just really wants to go home and eat soup with his birds

Squish the Changeling Bard (played by Tehn's player) .. really worried for his good friend Actias :(

Tiel Alleywollow the Halfling Warlock (played by the Storm's player) .. a girl of few words (literally, she only speaks when casting spells) and eternally fond of her fiendish patron, an asshole imp named Dition

In'hala the Tiefling Paladin of Pan (played by the same guy as before w) .. hit her head on a ship and somehow ended up far, far south of Celosia. who knows what happened? certainly not in'hala, but EYYY SHE STILL HAS THE SICK BOOTS YEAAA

Teller Artax the Warforged Gunslinger (played by Opus's player) .. originally out to hunt down his lost creator, but got sidetracked, and then got sidetracked from that sidetrack, and then got sidetracked from that sidetrack's sidetrack, and then

THE CURIOUS CASE of ACTON RIDGE .. campaign

50 years before the events of Dahl Creek, a similar event is taking place—after a shoot out in the canyon, the town of Acton Ridge is also carpeted in strange, blue-green vines and locked in time. Our heroes must unravel the mystery of their pasts and the two intertwined fates of a pair of brilliant inventors who were seemingly on the hunt for something not of this world. Ongoing!

The Celosia DM's latest campaign and prequel to Dahl Creek. A little different vibes from the last one considering most of us apparently lived here before things went to shit, and many of us have tie-ins with the events taking place. Cool, eerie mystery fun ! ! !

Characters

Outis the Warforged Paladin (played by me) .. an archaic tour guide emissary from the Feywilds who's trapped on an endless journey towards an unseen destination .. it's sassy as hell and just the right amount of british to be infuriating

Emeril the Sea Elf chef and Fighter (played by @anonprotagging) .. retired from being a soldier and running from his past to owning a small tavern (and running from his past) .. very blunt (like his cast iron frying pan)

Spinifer the ??? Bard and travel-book writer (played by Opus's player) .. looking for the scoop on the local scene in hopes of bringing more folks over from her homeland .. common isn't her first language and she delights in learning cool new words, like "paranormal" and "clusterfuck"

Phira the Deep Gnome Monster Hunter (played by the Storm's player) .. haunted by her past and now interested in that which is haunted, this little conspiracy theorist is going to get to the bottom of this mystery if it's the last thing she does (but not actually—she'd like to live you know)

#mio answers things #cattywampers #and that's about it ! ! ! ! ! #i am soooo normal about dnd #check my brain you won't find sizeable chunks dedicated solely to dnd #for example i obviously spend a normal amount of time summarizing the campaigns i've been involved in #and not 2 solid hours oh god #has it really been that long #jesus ksjhdfkgjhslkjdfg #the coolest emerald division

[qqueenofhades]

honestly, reading comics canon & the end of said comics canon while at the same time reading really well-thought-out takes like AITWW which takes what is, indeed, a beautiful queer bit of unpredictability flung into an otherwise faithful adaptation of comics canon and turns it into a whole story of its own-- is really making me personally excited for all the ways fanfic writers can use that as a Spanner in the Works/disruptor for Morpheus's canon ending. being Also An Old that potential gets me far more than anything canon may or may not do with hob, personally.

(which is to say thanks, AITWW has made my own creative brain do several backflips of excited Possibilities. so many possible stories.)

I mean... yeah. Obviously there are a lot of queer characters/themes in the Sandman to start with, but I think everyone imprinted on Dreamling like a baby duckling because a) it fulfills the obvious Grumpy/Sunshine trope that fandom loves, and b) it offers the thing that everyone loved about Our Flag Means Death, where the queer characters got to talk to each other, share interests, develop over time, and actually offer a real emotional basis to ship them as lovers. Of course, OFMD did that in ten episodes as opposed to just the back half of Sandman 1.06, but it's the same thing. And also, I would note that despite all the other queer representations/characters in the show, there isn't really anyone else to actively ship in a canon-supported LGBTQ context? We see Johanna's lover Rachel die in the same episode that we meet her, the Corinthian's entire life motto is be gay and do crimes but you don't exactly ship a serial-killing nightmare with any of the minor characters who he menaces and/or eats, Hal is great but still a bit-part player who gets paired off with Carl in the background, and Alex and Paul are already out of the picture by the end of the first episode. (Besides, Alex, keeping the dude you desperately want to fuck locked up in the basement for decades even after your terrible dad is dead is, uh, Bad.)

Fandom can, of course, imagine and headcanon interactions between various queer characters, but as far as an active, possible, ongoing relationship goes, where we are shown them developing feelings for each other and the narrative makes a point of underscoring them in a romantic context, Hob and Dream are kind of IT. Many shows just throw a queer couple in there as token representation and don't really take the time to actually show why they're compatible as a pairing, but there's so much possibility with Hob and Dream both that is already depicted in-show and can easily be extrapolated from the source material, the actors' and writers' interviews, the themes that are present in their narrative, and so forth. They're one of the most deeply romantic interactions in the whole show, despite never explicitly verbalizing their feelings or having any physical moments. You genuinely believe that these two immortal beings are truly affected by each other, they have incredibly complex feelings about each other, it absolutely means something special for them to reunite, and that no matter what happens, they will never entirely let go of each other. Which I think is a credit to the acting, writing, and how quickly we got that in the course of 20-30 minutes in one episode.

So yes: Dreamling IS a deeply queer and deeply romantic disruption of the source material (in a good way), and offers possibilities that have already been foreclosed or minimalized in other storylines, including in comics canon itself. They're one of the relatively few moments of sheer queer happiness, they were left open-ended and in a good place, Dream is obviously the main character of the whole series so developing a queer relationship for him is more than just what's going on in the background, and I really hope they continue to lean into this when writing/planning future seasons. Obviously, I love them and want to see more of them, but I feel Some Kinda Way about queer immortals, who can persist in all ages and eras of history, and not be consigned to just die, whether from narrative carelessness or Bury Your Gays or whatever else. There's something incredibly powerful about queer characters who literally can't be killed (also why I imprinted on Old Guard so much), and who are shown experiencing and overcoming adversity in so many different ways, and at the end of it, still choosing to keep living. I just have many feelings about that.

#anonymous #ask #dreamling #aitww

[ukrfeminism]

5 minute read

The number of graduates in full-time paid employment has reached a new high but female salaries have fallen behind their male counterparts, a survey has found.

There were over 60 per cent of graduates in paid employment from the academic year of 2020-21, a four percentage point increase from last year and the most since 2017. However, despite achieving the same level of qualifications, first-class female graduates had a median salary of £25,000, £2,000 lower compared with men.

The figures came from the annual Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) survey where graduates are asked about their employment status roughly 15 months after they have finished their university course. More than 355,000 graduates responded, marking a response rate of 43 per cent.

Kate Nightingale, the director of communications, campaigns and research at Young Women’s Trust, an organisation campaigning for equal pay, said that women were unfairly paid as soon as they entered employment. She said: “Pay inequality is there right from the start of working life and only grows over time. Women are putting in the effort to study but not getting the payoff at the end.”

She added: “Young women earn significantly less than young men — on average, around a fifth less per year despite tending to be more highly educated. There are a whole range of reasons for this, including young women going into lower paid jobs and sectors and not progressing as quickly. Discriminatory attitudes are still alive and well.”

The results showed that there was a higher proportion of men earning the top graduate salaries. About 10 per cent of male graduates had a salary of £51,000 or above, double compared with female graduates in full-time paid employment.

Alesha De-Freitas, the head of policy at the Fawcett Society, which pushes for women’s rights, says that employers must do a better job attracting female staff and warned of the economical impact of having a gender pay gap.

She said: “Employers must do more to ensure their hiring and pay policies do not disadvantage women and we urgently need to see more employers publishing action plans. We have a stubborn gender pay gap in the UK, which harms women and harms our economy.”

“It is particularly concerning that this data reveals men begin their careers earning more than women, even when having the same level of qualification.”

The HESA data also revealed that 10 per cent of graduates were either in further study or part-time employment, matching the figure in the previous survey.

Graduates who studied medicine and dentistry had the highest salary when they started full-time work. Of those who achieved a first, their median salary was £35,000, closely followed by veterinary science students at £32,000.

Former design, and creative and performing arts students entering full-time employment had a median salary of £22,500, the lowest among all subjects in the survey. Media, journalism and communications graduates earn just £500 more annually which was the second-lowest.

The Department for Education did not comment on the graduate pay gap but said that opportunities for women in the workplace have increased. A spokesman said: “Over the last decade the gender pay gap has fallen from 20 per cent to 15 per cent, with the percentage of women in employment rising from 67 per cent to 72 per cent. We strongly urge all organisations to take steps to address the gender imbalance in pay.

“To help close the gap even further, we have announced a childcare revolution with 30 hours free childcare for children over the age of nine months, and earlier this year we launched recruitment for our programme to get STEM returners back into the workplace.”