#It will have themes of narrative manipulation but let it be known that I am not a fan of the epilogues or hs2 | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

yukidragon · 2 years

Note

Have you theorised why Ian cheated? It was long distance when he did so and he called them right away so it looks like he still loved Y/N so do you think it was a drunk thing or more like he for 2 seconds he got the idea in his head that he did want to "satisfy his manhood" since he's only been with one person and immediately regretted it.

I have actually. I’ve mentioned it a couple times in past headcanon posts as my thoughts about it evolved, but I don’t mind going over it again. Heck, your ask is a good excuse to make a post that’s exclusively about the topic of Ian and his relationship with the MC.

For the most part I’m going to speak in general terms for why Ian might have cheated that can apply to all kinds of MCs, and not just my specific version, Alice. Ultimately, I don’t think it mattered what type of person the MC was - Ian cheated for reasons that were entirely his own... and ultimately selfish. I will touch on a few extra headcanons that strictly apply to Ian/Alice’s relationship and how it affects Sunshine in Hell at the end though.

I’ll be posting some artwork that used to be on Jambeebot/Sauce’s public twitter before it went down for some extra tidbits of information, and linking to the official twitter when relevant. As a reminder, please do not repost any private artwork posted on the SnaccPop Studio Patreon. Doing so is harmful to the team and their livelihood. Instead, please consider joining as a patron, contributing to the Something’s Wrong with Sunny Day Jack kickstarter, or just spreading the word about the game to other interested adults.

As a reminder, this series is for Adults Only. Sex is going to be discussed in this post, and there might be a mature image or two for reference.

Also as a heads up, this post will discuss abusive/toxic relationships, past instances of child abuse, SA, and religious trauma. If you are not in the headspace to handle any of these topics, please feel free to give this post a skip.

Obligatory tag for @channydraws and @earthgirlaesthetic before we get started. If you would like to be tagged in the next SDJ headcanon post, please let me know!

First, I want to address the theory that Ian was drunk, blackmailed, or otherwise did not consent to have sex with someone besides MC. Not only do I strongly believe that this is false, as there is evidence to suggest as such, I find this headcanon to be very... uncomfortable, to say the least.

If Ian did not willingly choose to have sex with someone, then he is the victim of SA.

The reason why Ian and MC broke up was because Ian had sex with someone else. If the only reason Ian had sex with someone else was because it was SA, that would mean that MC dumped the victim of SA instead of supporting him after a traumatic incident. MC would have blamed the victim of SA for suffering from SA. Even if we entertain the idea that Ian was too ashamed or didn’t understand it was SA at the time of the breakup, and as such MC had no idea that’s what happened, the victim of SA would have not only gone through the absolute violation that is SA, but lost his greatest source of love and emotional support as a result.

I am not comfortable with that narrative. At all.

Fortunately, it’s very unlikely to be the case, as Ian is taking all responsibility for his actions, as he himself stated in the demo. He did not blame his affair partner for what happened.

I’m going to try anyway. I’ve known you for how long now? I've known that…This is worse than anything we’ve been through. And it’s 100% my fault. But please…Don’t throw me out yet. Even if I deserve it…

There is also an older piece of art by Sauce that isn’t in the game or on the official twitter where Ian confessed to what he had done in a phone call immediately in the aftermath of his affair.

If Ian did not consent to have sex, then this picture changes into something very, very disturbing... well beyond the official warnings given on the subject.

[Romantic, Sexual, Emotional] Themes of manipulation, mind games, sexual consensual coercion, supernatural influence, soft dubious consent, and persuasive seduction.

Fortunately this picture shows Ian as lucid. He is upset and crying over what he did, but there’s no sign that he is in a compromised mental state where he can’t consent to sex.

I understand the reasoning behind making this sort of headcanon. I’ve seen it many times before, where a fan likes a character a lot, but feels uncomfortable towards one or more action that the character has taken. It can create a dissonance in the fan that needs to be resolved, and most often that takes the form of absolving the character of the blame of that questionable action, usually by making it the fault of someone else instead. That way, the character no longer has the trait that makes the fan uncomfortable, and it helps the fan no longer feel guilty for liking the character.

Liking flawed characters is not a sign that there’s anything wrong with you as a person. You can like aspects of a character but still disagree with certain things they’ve done or believed in. You are not tacitly approving of their flawed beliefs or wrongful actions by liking the character.

Everyone is flawed. Everyone has made mistakes. We are all imperfect, because we are all human. This mindset that a character can only be liked if they are absolved of all flaws is not only limiting when it comes to storytelling, it can be damaging, as it makes our own failings feel that much more unforgivable.

Redemption arcs can be pretty underrated, and I think that’s a shame. We shouldn’t be afraid of making mistakes. We should own up to them and learn healthy ways of making amends, or at least how to move on, heal, and grow into a better person.

I believe that Ian’s route in the game is going to be a redemption arc for him. For MC to reach a happy ending with him, Ian will have to truly make amends for betraying their trust. It won’t be easy, but redemption can be a beautiful thing. I eagerly look forward to seeing how Ian will do it and prove that he is truly remorseful and will never make such a mistake again.

Now that we’ve got that sorted, let’s consider the possible reasons why Ian chose to cheat.

First off, let’s start off with the facts that we do know about: Ian and MC are childhood friends who wound up in a relationship. MC was a stable figure in Ian’s life since they were children. The demo touches on a number of memories between them that mean a lot to both Ian and MC, including the afterlife mode.

The two have known each other a long time and know each other fairly well. However, as we’ve seen in the afterlife bonus story, Ian did keep secrets from MC. MC, by contrast, didn’t seem interested in hiding anything. These secrets, particularly whatever it was he hid so desperately under his bed, will probably come out during the game. The only thing we do know is that whatever he’s hiding, it’s not porn, as Sauce tweeted before their twitter was removed.

It’s unlikely that Ian is keeping secrets from MC for malicious reasons. Even when he cheated, he confessed right away rather than tried to hide it. He has a tendency to apologize, which even MC has commented on when describing him.

He was a nerd, and he was silly, and he was VERY apologetically himself, but…What we had was special.

This tendency to apologize and hide parts of himself appear to be the result of an abusive childhood at the hands of his mother. She is someone who not only forces her religious beliefs on her child, but stalks him and tries to control him and his actions.

“...My mom called me.” “Someone gave her our address…Or she might have had one of her friends watching. I don’t know…” “S-She…Uh…She says that…To live with someone out of…Wedlock…I-It’s a sin? And I’m going to hell?” “She said I’m only doing it to…To satisfy…My manhood…” “I-I’m not taking advantage of you by doing this…Am I?”

What’s unfortunate is that even as an adult, even though Ian is aware that what she is “just being mean” to him by planting these doubts in his head and saying such awful things to him, he still listens to her. He didn’t give his mother his new address when he moved, but he still hadn’t blocked her number despite knowing this until MC helped him do so in the episode.

Sadly, I suspect that Ian might have blocked his mother’s number in the past, only to unblock her later. This is purely headcanon on my part, but it’s not uncommon for victims of abuse to block their abuser, only to unblock them in a moment of weakness, especially if the abuser uses their flying monkeys to make the victim feel guilty about blocking them. It would seem that Ian’s mother has plenty of people on her side to do just that if they’re tracking Ian’s movements and reporting back to her about what he’s doing and where he’s going.

This drawing from Sauce’s deleted twitter is presumed by some fans (including myself) to be Ian’s mother. While any art not posted on the official twitter is questionable when it regards to canon, if this is Ian’s mother, and if she’s presumably talking to Ian, then she was verbally abusive and likely insulted Ian’s looks.

Ian was not just abused by his mother over his looks and other reason, but he was bullied by his peers as well.

The only one who seemed to want a friend was the kid who never seemed to have any. That was Ian. Ian wasn’t particularly loud and he didn’t have cool clothes or toys. He just kind of faded into the background. A lot of kids made fun of him.

Years worth of bullying, abuse, and lack of friends would have an effect on Ian. He feels the need to be apologetic and is painfully insecure. He struggles even to accept that MC would want someone like him as a romantic partner, as suggested by pictures like this one.

Scars like these run deep, and it takes a long time to heal. MC is used to comforting and reassuring Ian, as suggested by the afterlife episode. Ian is, in turn, used to relying on MC’s support. MC was the one who would ask Ian’s mother if they could have sleepovers when he was too afraid to do it himself, for example.

Ian has had MC’s support for a long time - since they attended first grade together, which is typically 6-7 years of age in the USA. While we don’t know the exact age of MC and the love interests in the present, it is implied they are all college graduates, which likely puts them in around their early to mid-20s. That’s quite a long time they’ve known each other, no doubt spending a lot of time in each other’s company on a regular basis up until Ian left to study abroad.

When Ian left, he suddenly had to go without his greatest source of love and support in order to pursue his dream of becoming an actor. He had to move across the country where no one knew him and handle everything entirely on his own.

With someone as insecure as Ian, no doubt that possibility was terrifying to him.

However, Ian had gone through a “glow up.” He was no longer that “gross” kid who faded into the background; he was successful and handsome. No doubt he attracted quite a bit of positive attention from his peers, which he probably wasn’t used to.

Back in his hometown, Ian had MC by his side a lot of the time. Anyone who wanted to romantically or sexually peruse him could easily be dismissed with his partner right beside him.

But what about when they’re not around to comfort him? Sure, Ian can call MC when he feels insecure, but they’re not there to hold him when he needs it... or help him blow off steam when he gets horny. Long distance relationships are hard, and they can leave a person feeling very lonely...

What I think happened was that Ian started making friends with people at the school. He was inexperienced with socializing with others due to being bullied, and likely didn’t realize when he was being flirted with unless they were overtly obvious about it. Given his low self-esteem, it would be easy for him to assume they’re just being friendly.

It feels good too. It’s hard for someone with so much insecurity to not want to soak up such positive attention. Chances are Ian wasn’t used to it from so many people who aren’t MC. Suddenly, MC is not unique in liking him or finding him attractive.

MC was always there for Ian, reliable and supportive. Ian knows them very well. Unfortunately, this can also breed complacency, which leads to taking their relationship for granted. By contrast, these new people in his life are different, unfamiliar, and exciting.

Staying in his hometown with the same people all his life, depending on someone else, abused by his mother, Ian likely had his growth stifled in many ways, but now he was taking charge of his life for himself. He was chasing his dream, growing more social, expressing himself more in a place far outside his mother’s reach.

It would be easy to make friends at his new school where so many people his age are interested in pursuing an acting career like he is. From there he could even find those who share some of his other interests, like fashion, video games, and manga. Despite his fears, Ian flourishes in his new environment. He opens up to more people and gets closer to them in a way that he never could with people in his hometown who knew him when he was an awkward child.

What harm would it do to just enjoy having more friends for once? In fact, MC would likely encourage Ian to make friends and spend time with them. He shouldn’t have to be lonely; he should be having fun too. Unfortunately, MC is not there and thus would be unable to see when any of Ian’s new “friends” start crossing lines... or how Ian unintentionally starts crossing them himself.

Ian doesn’t want anyone to know he and MC are sexually active in the afterlife episode. He claims it’s not a secret, but at the same time he worries about MC saying anything. Does he talk about being in a relationship at all? Does he tell people MC is his partner or just his childhood friend?

In my personal headcanon, I want to give Ian the benefit of the doubt on this point and say that he did make it clear to his new school chums that he was in a relationship. Unfortunately, for some people, a committed relationship is just seen as a challenge to overcome, something that adds a bit of spice to the chase, or they simply think cheating is fine as long as the person they’re cheating on never finds out.

What I think happened to Ian was like fable about the frog not realizing the water in the pot is getting hotter until its boiled alive.

It started innocently enough with attention and time spent with people who liked him. There was the occasional flirtatious remark that went over his head, but any overt propositions were turned down. It slowly escalates as Ian makes friends. He gets used to making himself vulnerable with other people besides MC, gets used to touching them, opens up more around them... and likely starts realizing they’re attractive too.

This is when his mother’s abuse would kick in. Those thoughts would hit Ian with guilt like a sack of bricks. Was his “manhood” leading him to sinful thoughts? No, no, it couldn’t be. He is only attracted to MC! He only loves MC! He only wants MC!

But that’s because MC was his only option before, isn’t it?

(Apologies for cropping this picture, but tumblr will nuke my blog from orbit if I showed what Ian and MC are doing on the left side of the image.)

Publicly posted pictures from Sauce’s now deleted tumblr might be questionable when it comes to canon, but I find they can be useful to give insight into general character motivations and for building headcanons. I find it very telling that Ian almost makes it sound like simply being with MC was his second choice when compared to his dreams of stardom...

Ian keeps these new thrilling feelings a secret like the thing hidden underneath his bed. He buries these thoughts, denies he even has them. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean those thoughts go away... especially not when he winds up spending time with the person or persons who spark these feelings in the first place.

Ian might try to avoid them to deny these feelings, but, oh, his avoiding them hurts their feelings, and he doesn’t want to do that! He apologizes, makes it up to them... and gets closer to them in spite of himself.

Things escalate from there. There’s more touching, more closeness, more deep intimate conversations deep into the night... some friendly cuddle time perhaps... Lines are crossed that he either denies were anything but innocent or perhaps he allows himself to believe them that they don’t mean anything even if they seem to mean more... Friends kiss sometimes too, right? The French greet each other with kisses in fact!

The French really know their kisses.

Eventually, one night when Ian is spending time with one of these friends, he finds himself really enjoying their company. He doesn’t feel lonely or miss MC as much. He barely thinks of MC, so distracted by his new exciting friend before him who makes him feel so good...

One thing leads to another. It’s a night of passion, of just feeling good and wanted.

After all, it’s not the first time Ian got swept up in his own pleasure when he was feeling horny. In his sex scene in the afterlife episode, he doesn’t let MC stop giving him a blowjob. First it’s by holding their head and giving puppy dog eyes, then he gets more forceful.

I wanted to look him in the eyes, but when I threatened to stop he only doubled down and gave a solid, deeper thrust. It was almost as if he was trying to remind me what I was to be doing.

Ian knows that he shouldn’t keep going if MC wants to stop, but, as he says...

“I-I’m so sorry I just…this is the first time you’ve gotten this far…and it really does feel good..”

It’s okay if he just apologizes, right? MC always forgives him when he wants things too much. It feels good and he doesn’t want to stop... MC will understand, they always do. They understand each other the most after all...

MC doesn’t even mind being used for sexual gratification after all.

It was like being used. And somewhere in the back of my mind, I didn’t care if he WAS using me.

Because Ian and MC love each other, it’s okay if Ian does what feels good, right? MC would want that for him. They won’t mind if they feel used. They won’t mind blacking out from lack of oxygen as long as he feels good. They won’t mind if he doesn’t reciprocate and gives them pleasure as long as he says how much he loves them and cuddles them afterwards.

They won’t mind if Ian thinks of himself first.

Then the post-nut clarity hits.

Ian might have convinced himself everything up until this point meant nothing when high off of hormones and attention, but after the excitement fades, the person in bed with him isn’t his partner. Maybe they’ll cuddle him, but they won’t say, “I love you.” He doesn’t mean that much to them. They’re not MC.

There’s nothing to justify what Ian did or distract him from the consequences - he cheated. He betrayed his partner for a cheap thrill.

There is no way to soften what Ian did. Even if he might not be religious like his mother, cheating is a sin far, far worse than simply having sex before marriage. It’s one of the big top ten sins!

It’s just like his mother told him - Ian was a sinful man who just wanted to satisfy his manhood with sex.

Ian can’t handle it, any of it. He immediately calls up MC to confess. It’s the only way to fix this. They’ll forgive him, they’ll understand. They forgive his mistakes. They know him. They’ll understand he didn’t mean it. They have to. It’s the only way he can live with himself.

Not even confessing his sins can stop his betrayal from scarring MC and destroying their self-esteem along with their relationship.

In the present, Ian is trying everything he can to get MC to forgive him. Due to MC’s money issues, he likely pays for half (or more) of the rent as a means of making amends for what he did, even if they’re broken up now. MC is a cheapskate who has to rely on cheap thrift store goods and borrowed or stolen clothes from their ex who hurt them.

Maybe that’s why Ian believes that getting a new job, one that likely offers fame and money, will somehow fix what he did. He has money and can buy a lot of video games, systems, and anime merch. His wallet is thick enough for MC to mistake his 8-inch erection for it, which suggests it’s full of money. He seems like he has enough money to spend on apologies too.

What’s worse is that Ian’s betrayal, and maybe even their relationship altogether, did severe damage to MC’s self-esteem.

When Jack shows up, MC resists the idea that they feel love towards him. While they are concerned about what Jack is and whether or not he’s real, they seem more deterred by the feeling that they don’t deserve the attention of someone who loves them.

I don’t feel like I really deserve that kind of attention…You know? It doesn’t feel natural to have somebody just…Ask you to consider that.

MC also doesn’t want to use Jack as an emotional crutch. Perhaps because they felt like they were once used that way by someone...

I feel for him...But something about this is too good. I won’t use him as a bandage, to cover up the feelings I don’t want to feel.

The only romantic relationship MC ever had was with Ian. They are still suffering from heartache by the time Jack shows up. They’ll turn Nick down regardless of whether or not they’ll agree to get in a relationship with Jack.

MC trusted Ian. They loved Ian. They wanted to be with him forever. Then Ian betrayed that promise of forever for a night of cheap lust. Maybe that was enough to destroy MC’s self-esteem to this degree, but I suspect their relationship wasn’t really all that sunny.

But Ian won’t give up. He won’t let MC go so easily. He won’t let them forget him or throw him away. He’ll keep calling them, reminding them of the good times and apologizing for the bad. He won’t let them move on. He’ll do whatever it takes to prove they’re meant to be together...

Ian did a lot of damage to MC. He has a hell of a lot to make up for, and it will take a lot more than just money and fame to fix things.

That’s about it for general theorizing that can apply to all MCs from the clues we’ve been given. I know this post has gotten kind of long, but since we’re on the subject, I’m going to touch on a few headcanons I have that specifically apply to Alice and Ian’s relationship. Just so you know, these headcanons may or may not be tweaked in the future before references appear in Sunshine in Hell.

The relationship between Alice and Ian wasn’t healthy. There were plenty of good times with smiles and love, but there were also problems that only grew more and more toxic as time went on.

Alice has done a lot to please Ian and support him. She felt very bad for the abuse he suffered under his mother and how stifled he was, so she bent over backwards for him, often giving more of herself than was reasonable.

Alice has never done well in front of crowds, but because Ian wanted to be an actor and she wanted to support him, she would participate in plays alongside him. She would help him practice his parts and got good at acting in her own right. Still, her dream was to join the animation industry, but when she struggled under some crappy overly critical art teachers, Ian convinced her to just try for an acting career with him instead.

If it didn’t work out, well, they could just be together.

When Alice dropped out of acting classes after her acting teacher advised her that the only parts she could play were fat, unpleasant characters who were the butt of jokes, it shook up Ian’s confidence as well. He worried he wouldn’t be good enough, or even just good looking enough, even if the teacher praised him in a way that they didn’t with her.

Although Alice felt insecure and ugly, Ian assured her he loved her and that was what counted, not what anyone else thought. Ian didn’t want to give up acting, but he considered it after what happened to her. She didn’t want him to give up on his dream, since she didn’t really want to be an actor to begin with and being on stage with so many people watching her made her feel uncomfortable, but she couldn’t tell him that or he would feel even worse.

Alice did a lot of things that made her uncomfortable for the sake of love.

What didn’t help Alice’s feelings of self worth were all of the husbandos and waifus Ian had. She always acted like they were no big deal, as they were just fictional crushes and she had some of her own while growing up. Unfortunately, she struggled to overlook certain common traits in his choices: large chests, thin waists, and overall conventional good looks.

Alice is chubby, with a pear shaped body that makes her hips and rear much bigger than her chest. No one would ever mistake her for an anime waifu, and she knew it.

It took Alice a while before she could handle getting sexual in their relationship. She suffered from SA as a teenager and had moments where she panicked, especially in certain positions or when being restrained without warning or means of escape.

Ian would feel miserable for triggering her trauma and would apologize profusely for it, blaming himself and thinking the absolute worst of himself. Alice, in turn, would feel guilty for turning something that was supposed to be an expression of love into something awful for the both of them. Moments that should have been just about expressing love physically just made Ian feel like an awful person instead, and she would need to reassure him that he wasn’t. It made her more determined to suppress her trauma and be more proactive when it came to physically intimacy for the sake of their love.

Alice loved Ian, and she was willing to do just about anything for him.

Ian was rough in bed once they got going, and Alice did her best to tolerate it. She focused instead on how flattering and exciting it was that the person she loved desired her to the point that he lost control over himself. She believed that noone else would ever feel this way about her but Ian. What they had was special, irreplaceable. She got better at not freaking out when he took away her control in the heat of passion. She tolerated choking until nearly passing out and the pain that would always come initially when being penetrated.

Neither of them had any point of reference for having sex besides sex education classes, experimenting with each other, and ecchi. In ecchi/hentai, the person on the bottom would almost always be in pain at the start of penetrative sex, particularly during their first time, but would feel good in the end. That was just how sex worked, right? Pain was just an unavoidable price to pay to feel pleasure and express their love physically, right?

Just a quick aside, no, sex is not supposed to be painful unless you want it to be. In that case, it’s BDSM, and it requires a lot of communication as well as safe words to do it in a healthy manner.

Ian never meant for Alice to feel bad. He just loved her so much that he got carried away in the moment, and he was so good at aftercare, which made up for any pain and panic. She adored how sweet he could be afterwards, so loving, kind, and cuddly, so she always reassure him that she was okay... even if she wasn’t really.

Alice learned to complain less and less over the years as she grew up with Ian because he was suffering from so much, and it felt like she had nowhere near as much to complain about. He would feel so miserable if she had a problem and he felt helpless that he could do anything about it. He was dealing with so much, she couldn’t bear to burden him with things that troubled her when he couldn’t handle it, not when he needed her support so badly. She had a big family who loved her and could support her, unlike Ian. Without her, Ian would have no one. He never meant to hurt her, and he always apologized when he did.

That was why, even after being cheated on, Alice tried to forgive Ian.

The woman Ian cheated with was gorgeous, thin, and had big breasts. She was someone who was far more forward and confident when it came to sex, so much more appealing than Alice was, at least in her opinion. She felt pangs of paranoia and jealousy towards this woman’s behavior towards Ian in pictures on their socials and how much he talked about her as well as others even before the affair, but she always managed to talk herself down from suspecting anything seriously. She trusted Ian. What they had was different, real. They knew each other for so long, far more intimately than anyone else. Their love was deeper than anyone could understand, and she believed him when he swore up and down that he only could ever want her romantically or sexually.

It was a mistake. Ian messed up. It’s just how it’s always been - he makes a mistake, apologizes sincerely, reassures Alice he loves her, and she would forgive him. He always has good intentions, he just is clumsy at times, makes mistakes. This was just another mistake.

Besides, it wasn’t like Alice was perfect either. She had a crush on that camp councilor when they were tweens, and it made Ian feel bad because he had been crushing on her while she was gushing about her crush to him, oblivious to his feelings. This was kind of how he felt back then, right? She was just experiencing it from the other side now. Something like this was just a passing fancy. They could recover from this, right? Right?

But they couldn’t. Trust had been broken. All the problems in their relationship that Alice overlooked because she trusted Ian and loved him came in sharp relief, made even worse now by his betrayal.

Alice really did try to make it work, but in the end, she realized, with the help of friends and family, that what she and Ian had wasn’t healthy. They were caught in a toxic cycle of hurt feelings and apologies, clinging to each other for the sake of “love” until their relationship had grown twisted and was slowly destroying both of them.

The hardest thing Alice ever had to do was end the relationship, and even then she cracked under the pressure of Ian’s crying and begging for her not to leave him. She softened it by saying that they were broken up “for now.” Right now things were too painful, too raw. They needed space to focus on themselves as individuals instead of as a couple. If there was any chance of them being together, they needed time apart to heal.

Unfortunately, Alice can’t imagine them getting back together, not when just the thought of Ian hurts like hell.

#Sunny Day Jack #Something's Wrong With Sunny Day Jack #SunnyDayJack #swwsdj #sdj #Headcanon Ramblings #Ask #Sauce-y Art

407 notes · View notes

layzeal · 1 year

Note

Hello!

This is my opinion, please correct me somehow im really willing to change since thats how i am with new fandoms i get myself into(is it really new if i have known it for 2 years) anyway, please forgive my insolence. I just wanna ask what you think of cql changing a lot themes (especially that importance they have put on yunmeng trios ( its to the point ive ask my myself if JYL manipulates WWX, you know guil tripping forcing someone to be with you (obv not romantically) out of pity or other) (and downgrading certain things like JC's cruelty or washing WWX making him not lose control but have outside factors) (the timeline is also confusing) and i just felt like most of the lessons in mdzs was not successfully implemented in the live action. There were a lot of times that made me leave the show halfway because i was hoping for a lot of wangxian actions (it was 50 epi after all) but most of it was in flashback and focuses too much on the said trio. then the sudden change of story into XXC and XY, and the little changes too like LQY being a Jin disciple.

and also about that LWJ self harm ask, ive read some meta about it him being sad and in grief, another saying its a part of remembering WWX (which for me is so ridiculous, which part exactly will remind him of WWX, the self harm part of the scars?) and frankly im more inclined to believe thats its a mistake he have done while drunk and grieving, he has to let it out somehow and without logic and inhibitions he must have done it after seeing the torture weapon?? like its not a planned thing( but who am i talk, it could be depression speaking) which is not making sense how do you manage to find it just lying so it could also have been because something have reminded it of him. i honestly wanna stop thinking about the hows so i just ask.

another point id like to ask is how do people manage to have questions that sounds so amazing? idk the word for it. but you know what i mean, bizarre then people like you somehow have the word to explain such things. how long does it usually take you to articulate what you mean, and what process are you using that makes it so easy to understand.

hi friend!! so, for a brief history: i actiually got into MDZS through CQL back in june 2021, and i really loved it!! however, there were a lot of things that were very confusing to me (especially the timeline), which is why i decided to pick up the novel, because i was very very interested in understanding the whole picture!

(more under cut)

but as you can see by now, my fandom content has almmost exclusively switched to novel/audio drama canon! and well, there's not really much secret about it, other than me just vastly preferring the novel's narrative, for many of the reasons you mentioned! my general stance on CQL is that, while it's a pretty bad adaptation that fails in a lot of ways to convey some themes of the original work, it does work really well as its own, independent thing, and that's kinda how it exists in brain? i've kinda grown a wall of separation between the two, in which i don't really see CQL as MDZS, and tend to appreciate it on its own (ie. for as much as i LOVE wangxian's relationship in the novel, there really is something incredibly tasty about how it was done in the show that only works within that universe)

but most of all, i only watched cql like, once, and can remember VERY little about it, so it's why i don't really feel comfortable talking about its changes because i genuinely cannot remember how they were executed LMAO. but YEAH there are more changes i dislike than i like, and whether they were made because of censorship or not, it's still sad how much lost potential there was :(

and @ you last question: oh, thank you so much!! hmm, i do tend to just kinda... write down what i'm thinking, so the words you're reading are pretty much my exact train of thought haha i guess i can be really thankful to having reached a level of english fluency that allows me to make-up sentences in my mind already in english, rather than having to translate them beforehand. a lot of my practice experience was actually by doing writing and roleplaying here on tumblr, so maybe that's related! just reading and writing a lot can definitely help you develop an easier way to articulate your thoughts. it's why i love doing media analysis, really, i get so excited about something from a piece of media that i HAVE to share, and for that to work i need to articulate it well enough, so it's very motivating! does that make sense? i hope so dkjfhjdfkg

hope you have a good day, anon <3

#modao #lace speaks #long post

5 notes · View notes

soranis-sunshadow · 3 years

Text

Why Hordak and all of his brothers are cult victims suffering from Religious Trauma Syndrome

A detailed (and very, very, veeeeryy long) explanation on why I take issue with dismissing Hordak’s trauma as “daddy issues” that is frequently done as a way to hand wave his background and the context for his actions all while attributing said cultic abuse and indoctrination narrative to a character that, though has a tragic, abuse-laden past has never actually been part of a cult. *cough* Catra *cough*

Lets see how deep the rabit hole goes shall we?

First off: The Galactic Horde is based on a suicide cult, with Horde Prime as its leader.

That is irrefutable fact. It has been stated by the show runner and there are plenty of in-show examples of religious speak, religious themes pertaining to Horde Prime and his acolytes and even the interior design of Horde Prime’s ship is that of a grandiose Cathedral.

The source of this is an article by Polygon where the show runner breaks down what went into creating Horde Prime. (link in the notes)

Onto The Etherian Horde – though totalitarian in nature, it is not a religious institution – merely a military operation. Though the argument could be made that propaganda is used to instill an anti-princess agenda, no horde members are ever seen spouting doctrine or discrimination against their very own Princess in the ranks – Scorpia. Not only is she not discriminated against, she holds the rank of Force Captain. She also has the respect of her peers.

The only person that seemed to have taken it seriously is Adora, who - due to Shadow Weaver’s personal attention – has been raised with the specific mindset of a self-sacrificing martyr. After learning of the fact that Shadow Weaver has always known about the Heart of Etheria, it is not a huge leap to assume that in her bid for more power, her plan had always been to have Adora unleash the planet’s magic, possibly sacrificing herself in the process. Shadow Weaver had groomed her for this specific purpose. (It’s one of the reasons for which the subject of Adora’s martyrdom hurts Catra so deeply –she had been witness to the manipulation taking place but was powerless to do anything about it for most of her life)

The other cadets are more well-adjusted and don’t seem to care much about the horde’s ideology or goals, not even Catra who has suffered the brunt of Shadow Weaver’s psychological and physical abuse and has been subjected to her manipulation too.

The above exchange proves that even if there had been any indoctrination in The Etherian Horde, it has failed in affecting Catra’s judgment. I am legitimately surprised on how little credit her own fans give her and on how her perceptiveness and intellect is dismissed to have her fit into this “brainwashed victim“ agenda for more “sympathy points”.

With that having been said I’ll start this off with a bit of a definition: Religious Trauma Syndrome is a common experience shared among many who have escaped cults, fundamentalist religious groups, abusive religious settings, or other painful experiences with religion.

The symptoms of Religious Trauma Syndrome are comparable to the symptoms of complex PTSD. The symptoms are as follows.

(link in the notes)

I will discuss all of the symptoms and causes by turn and expand upon them.

1) Cognitive: Confusion, poor critical thinking ability, difficulty with decision-making,

negative beliefs about self-ability & self-worth, black & white thinking, perfectionism,

Hordak’s whole misguided crusade on Etheria is an act of confusion. What on green Earth had ever convinced him that it would work in proving his worth to Prime? Hordak had been confused on the reason of his rejection, self-delusional even. Hear me out:

Despite what Hordak himself believes, he wasn’t excommunicated because he was useless, he was abandoned for being born defective, aka for existing as he was created.

His inborn defect, by nature of being an unchangeable fact was not something that he could overcome in order to earn back the acceptance of his Maker. To a certain degree, he was aware of this but had refused to acknowledge it and as such, he has framed it to himself as “his defect makes him worthless”.

By overcoming uselessness and proving his competence in furthering Prime’s goals, he had convinced himself that he would be welcome back into his brother’s flock.

He had convinced himself that by proving his usefulness, it would erase his defect. He had given himself a reason for rejection that, unlike an inborn one, could be overcome - worthlessness. His logic being that Worthless=Defective, if he were useful, he wouldn’t be defective anymore.

He has framed his accidental stranding on Etheria as a trial of faith, not a chance at freedom or bid for power and self-actualization.

In his confused reasoning, he had not realized that by attempting to prove his worth to Horde Prime, he would be in essence, proving that Prime had been mistaken about his deficiency. This was anathema to Horde Prime’s own doctrine – that Prime is all knowing, all powerful and Horde Prime is Never Wrong. His attempts were always destined to fail from the start, the premise was flawed at the core but Hordak’s own wishful thinking prevented him from seeing the fault in his mission.

This is how Hordak sees himself:

This defect => useless => worthless mentality can be observed when he projects onto Catra. I swear, everyone projects onto everyone else in this series.

This is an example of him emulating the only leadership he’s ever known - that of Horde Prime and exerting Prime’s judgment over a supplicant or Prime – In this case Catra (what Prime would have done to him in the same situation). He imitates Prime’s way of speaking and even his facial expression during Prime’s “speeches” (look at position of his ears in this scene and that little dimple damnit!!!)

(yes, *sigh* I did a spacebat ear position diagram)

Horde Prime has that ear position even when possessing his little brothers to give his grandiose speeches:

Hordak’s and other little brother’s “default” ear position:

It’s worth adding that perfectionism is not only part of a symptom of his cult trauma but also a tenant of Prime’s doctrine making it a double whammy.

2). Emotional: Depression, anxiety, anger, grief, loneliness, difficulty with pleasure, loss of meaning

As they say, a picture says a thousand words…

To call Hordak depressed is like calling the ocean mildly humid.

He is alone, on a planet of primitive aliens (from his perspective) surrounded by potential enemies and in an incredibly vulnerable position due to his illness with no clear end to any of it in sight. He feels nothing for this world other than irritation at his inability to leave it. His only meaning and purpose is returning to his congregation, a purpose he is no closer to fulfilling than he was when he had started a few decades ago. The only open displays of emotion he manifests are that of anger, self-loathing., frustration, fear – in the blanket scene before he comes to his senses completely and starts masking the fear with anger… at the blanket… there was nothing else in the room to be angry at… ridiculous spacebat.

After Catra deceives him about Entrapta, he openly manifests grief and apathy as well.

3). Social: Loss of social network, family rupture, social awkwardness, behind schedule on developmental tasks, sexual difficulty (no snu snu for religiously repressed spacebats... yet *wink wink*)

This one is self-explanatory. He is in essence an exile on Etheria, away from all he has ever known. He is the only one of his kind on the planet, even Imp - his attempt at replication is not a proper replacement for the community provided by the Hive mind.

From a social perspective- he is a recluse and is not seen interacting with anyone in anything but a “professional “ manner. The only exception to this is Entrapta’s interaction to him. Due to her indifference to his posturing, she is immune to his attempts at self-isolation. “Get out!” and vague threats of reprimands don’t work on her. Their shared interest in science allows Entrapta to force the interaction on him. (At least in the beginning of their collaboration)

Later, after having become accustomed to Entrapta’s companionship and having that ripped away, he tries to form a connection – at least of commiseration – with Catra:

Even after she did this to him:

he still tried to form a connection through their shared need to prove their own worth.

Did you catch that little detail? : “Victory is ours” not “mine”.

4.) Cultural: Unfamiliarity with secular world; “fish out of water” feelings, difficulty belonging, information gaps (e.g. evolution, modern art, music)

…

Do I really need to expand on this one? *Sigh* … he is literally an alien to this world, “fish out of water” would be an understatement.

As we have established, he fits the bill of Religious Trauma Syndrome to a T. He presents all of the symptoms.

Now let’s move onto the causes of it:

1). Suppression of normal child development – cognitive, social, emotional, moral stages are arrested

This one is self-explanatory. The horde clones and by extension Hordak are severely stunted in their psychological development and that is by design. They are deliberately kept from developing an adult mentality so as to never become a threat to Horde Prime or ever be able to break away from his control. Prime keeps them in a child-like dependency on him as a way to exert his power over them. Should they ever develop even a budding sense of self, their indoctrination compels them to submit to correction and erasure ensuring that they never surpass this state of learned helplessness. Horde Prime encourages this self-flagellating behavior, deeming it a mercy, even a favor to be granted – to suffer in His Name.

Hordak shows almost no emotional coping mechanisms and manifests child-like tantrums of frustration as an only outlet for his emotions throughout the show. He attempts to hide any other attempt at emotion, with differing degrees of success.

Wrong Hordak is emotionally unstable and is prone to fits of crying. (However, due to the comedic fashion in which his arc is written, I suppose that this could be taken with a grain of salt)

The clones are not only prevented from growing and maturing mentally, they are also robbed of childhoods –having been born in adult bodies and with the necessary knowledge to serve Prime literally programmed into them so as to make them able to serve efficiently from their first breath. As such, they are robbed of their formative years where one individual grows and develops naturally. Those precious experiences are replaced by Horde Prime’s literal programming through the hardware they have installed in their bodies to facilitate Horde Prime’s control over them (without their consent). In essence, they are a people born pre-”chipped”

Regardless of their actual age, and despite the fact that they are intelligent, capable and responsible individuals, I see the clones as having the emotional maturity of toddlers.

They never had the chance to develop any emotional coping skills, they were never allowed to have emotions to begin with.

2). Damage to normal thinking and feeling abilities -information is limited and controlled; dysfunctional beliefs taught; independent thinking condemned; feelings condemned

This is The Galactic Horde’s core belief:

Along with:

Incidentally, Hordak does his version of this speech trying to puff himself up in front of his soldiers… buuut Catra pushes the Failure button and that snaps him out of his little Prime impersonation moment.

More dysfunctional beliefs:

Condemnation of independent thinking:

Results in this:

No further explanations are necessary…

3). External locus of control – knowledge is revealed, not discovered; hierarchy of authority enforced; self not a reliable or good source

Prime exerts his dominance throughout S5 by force,

and coercion:

He is even petty and vindictive enough to force himself into Hordak immediately after his speech and to kill Entrapta with Hordak’s own body.

As for the self not being a reliable narrator… Hordak believed this about his former position.

He is not prone to exaggeration or deception being woefully incompetent in the latter – both perpetrating and spotting it. We have to assume that this is the way he saw his position in the Galactic Horde.

Season 5 revealed that all of the clones are equally disposable and interchangeable, there are no ranks. They are all equal tools whose sole purpose is furthering Horde Prime’s agenda. Horde Prime has no need for generals or delegating since he is able to inhabit his little brothers and be in more than one place at the same time. Hordak’s job in S5 was that of hall monitor and planetary acquisitions guy…

@cruelfeline goes into detail about the dissonance between what Hordak believes and what is actually his position in The Galactic Horde. A link to it is in the notes because Tumblr is being fussy.

4.) Physical and sexual abuse – patriarchal power; unhealthy sexual views; punishment used as for discipline

Some people have seen this, ugh… form of penetration… ugh again… as rape allegory.

Not a hard thing to do since Prime himself is rape personified and he consistently forces himself onto and into his little brothers, Catra and later, the chipped Etherians. Prime does nothing but "bad touch" people all of S5 and is particularly enjoying his disciplining of his "wayward little brother", the most unworthy and unlovable amongst his brothers. (According to the extended scene)

Here’s some more of Prime’s touching with rape subtext:

Here’s more of Prime forcing himself into his little brothers – they all seem to fight it and find it painful to some degree despite the fact that they have been conditioned to accept it and welcome it. Prime’s touch is a good thing, even when it hurts them.

Ironically, the one who fights this violation the least is Hordak himself. (this could be either because he’s extra repentant and wished not to further draw Prime’s ire or that his condition of chronic illness has raised his pain threshold)

The process of possession is not seamless and some of the clones appear to be unsettled by it after prime retreats from their bodies.

As much as this Utter Disaster of a clone wanted to finish his little speech about dirt and as much as he was gleefully enjoying it, after Prime was done with him… he just wanted his task over with…

The very nature of their indoctrination makes them unable to escape what has been done to them nor change their whole world view without outside intervention – which is exactly the help that Wrong Hordak received immediately after being abducted from the collective by people who slowly de-indoctrinated him and offered him a supportive environment for all of that growth and healing to happen.

When the Best Friend Squad kidnapped him, he was ardent about his service to Prime and he only followed them because they deceived him in believing they were servants of Horde Prime.

By providing clear irrefutable evidence of Prime’s fallibility, deceit and the squad’s (mostly Entrapta and Glimmer) moral support throughout this moral crisis, they (just Entrapta here *coughs* ) were able to wean him off of his programmed behavior and offer him an informed choice.

This is information none of the other clones, not even Hordak were privy to.

Even with this information, Wrong Hordak is still in emotional turmoil (though the show plays it for laughs – yuck)

The closest Hordak ever gets to walking away from Prime’s doctrine is this moment:

He was considering indefinitely putting it off to stay here, with her, and her worldview that he could be worth something, imperfect as he is. He is offered her emotional support and guidance.

Unfortunately... Catra nipped that in the bud before it could lead anywhere.

After convincing Hordak that Entrapta betrayed him, her message of inherent worth was rendered null, to him - her unconditional affection and the notion that he could to live apart from Prime were a manipulation. This further radicalized him in his faith and need to prove his worthiness.

Not only did Catra remove Entrapta’s influence over him, she goaded him even further with this cursed little speech and her whole “yass queen moment!”. you know the one...

“Get.Over.IT! You don’t need Entrapta. You never did. You don’t need a Princess in your life telling you what to do. Look at what you’ve done without her. You’ve build an army. An empire! You and me, we don’t need anyone. Forget them all. No one matters, nothing matters but this mission. You want to prove yourself, prove your worth? Then do it! You and I are going to conquer Etheria. And then, they’ll all see!”

Both of them were in clear downfall in S4 and they amplified each other’s most negative tendencies. I will not hold this against her.

The last thing I want to mention is that for cult victims, it is incredibly hard, if not, almost impossible to leave their cults by themselves. The first step for leaving a cult in the real world is looking for outside assistance.

It takes enormous amounts of strength – an almost imaginable degree of resolve – to leave a cult, particularly when you may have been born into one and have no friends or connections on the outside world. Cult survivors are often ostracized by everyone they have ever known who remain within the organization. To a cultist, the world outside the cult is a hostile, sinful and dangerous place. The assistance of someone from the outside is crucial.

Only with the assistance of a “friendly outsider” or a support group can the former cultist change the world view with which they had been indoctrinated with (sometime since early childhood).

A cult and set of beliefs warps your whole world view to the point of delusion. Faith in the cultic creeds is more important than factual evidence. As a matter of fact, the evidence in itself is evil, a contradiction to the creeds of faith and successfully denying it is an act of faith fulfilled. This mentality is encouraged in cults.

Many people in this fandom have claimed that Hordak, once pulled through the portal was free to do as he pleases. (he didn’t chose to come to Etheria – his arrival on the planet was accidental)

This is not really the case. Hordak never decided to leave the cult. He was still part of the cult when he was sent to his death on the battlefield for his defect and he was still a believer when the portal delivered him to Etheria.

In essence, Hordak didn’t leave his cult so much as he was forced apart from it, physically. In spirit, he still believed in Horde Prime’s dogma. His experience is the equivalent of a religious man getting stranded on an island in the middle of the ocean. He is apart from his church, but his faith is still with him. Hordak’s faith hadn’t waned in the decades of separation. His purpose had always been returning to Horde Prime –hence the focus on building a portal and not on levelling towns with an arm laser cannons. He has proven in S4 that, had his main mission actually been conquest, he could have done it with not much difficulty – He wasn’t half bad at it actually. Instead, he delegated the conquest to his underlings and focused most of his attention on attempts at reuniting with Horde Prime via investigating rogue portals and trying to build one of his own.

Due to the nature of his “upbringing”, Hordak’s whole world view is warped. He has not had the benefits of a “moral” education from a human’s standpoint. Why would training cadets to become soldiers in your army be morally reprehensible when you, yourself, had been bred for war and have served your God with your first breath?

This was Hordak’s idea of a “normal” childhood:

What could he possibly know about the healthy raising of children?

Why would conquering a planet be a morally reprehensible thing when his God did this to places?

And this:

Before one ascribes evil motivation, for the sake of evil – one should bear in mind that these creeds were literally programmed into him. This is not a life he has chosen for himself– this is something he was born into, literally manufactured for, this is something that was done to him.

And for those that would have wanted him to regret his actions on screen, keep in mind that it will likely take a lot of therapy and reeducation before he even comprehends the nature and magnitude of his crimes on Etheria.

(besides the fact that he had spent 99% of season 5 in an amnesiac daze doesn’t help with the whole remembering his crimes bit either)

The show runner has declared in one of her post show interview that he will make reparations for the damage he’s caused.

What more do people want from a person born and flung into an impossible situation besides his head on a plate?

Phew!

Long post was long

#hordak #horde prime #catra #spop discourse #spop meta #cultic indoctrination #religious trauma #will you stop calling them daddy issues now?

361 notes · View notes

thelovelyghostwriter · 3 years

Note

do you think kuraneon is gonna be canon in the official hxh universe and what must have happened?

Whether or not they would be canon is up to Sir Togashi himself. While he does have romantic elements in his previous works like Yu Yu Hakusho and Ten de Showaru Cupid, it's not as explicit in HxH (e.g. Meruem/Komugi).

If you asked me this before knowing about the KuraNeon Marriage Theory (will give a link in the reblog later on) and KuraNeon paired up in mobile games, I would have said "0% chance" because we do not see them interact on-screen (even if I had shipped them since I first laid my eyes on Neon).

However, it is kinda sus that Kurapika became a Nostrade Family Young Boss; with Light and Neon nowhere shown. The more "accepted" theory is that Light is unable to continue and Neon is dead (although I do have rebuttals about Neon being dead - that's another conversation). I do wonder why he had to keep their mafia family name - there is no reason to if he truly let them wither. But from Light's last appearance in a manga panel, Kurapika did reassure him that he'll handle everything and you see the Nostrade mafia family organisation doing well under Kurapika. Which is also why my friend went to bring up that plausible KuraNeon Marriage Theory.

I know that a lot of people think they don’t interact, but that is on-screen. After York New City arc, we don’t see Kurapika until way later, however him being in charge as the Nostrade Boss indicates that he stayed with the Nostrades. God knows what they did while living under one roof.

Another thing that is major sus is the mobile games. Even non-shippers are baffled why KuraNeon is a thing. Kurapika and Neon are seen dressed as Hikoboshi and Orihime in two sets of the mobage cards; a romantic couple that is known in a Japanese legend and celebrated on 7 July (Tanabata Festival). They are even shown writing on coloured papers in one of the cards + Kurapika holding a bamboo - these coloured papers are used during the Tanabata festival where wishes are written on them and hung on bamboo. It is believed that the reunion between the two lovers Hikoboshi and Orihime are so joyous that they grant the wishes of the people. As far as I know, the only pairing that gets to have a Orihime/Hikoboshi theme in their cards is Machi/Hisoka; and we do see Hisoka/Machi having a soft spot for one another in canon (in the current arc, Machi does patch him up after his defeat and Hisoka spared her).

Hmmm.. I should make a post about this whole Tanabata thing actually. Asides from that, they are also the v-day banner in 2019 for the games and she gave him a cake during the valentine’s day event, to which showed a scene of him thinking about what to give her back (and low and behold, Kurapika’s White’s Day card featured him with a gift and him wearing the same outfit of the scene where he thought about what to give her).

In a separate mobile game, they have a special attack together. Their mobage cards have identical backgrounds and themes. Therefore, it isn’t just one mobile game that does this. It makes me wonder why the official team devs do that when this pairing shipping sub-fandom is really small and many even dislike it.

Even as a shipper, it also baffles me why devs do that when they have little screentime together (gotta be more objective here). If you do consider the KuraNeon Marriage Theory or consider that they might end up together in the manga, it makes sense why the official hxh game devs pair them together. And I am unsure about the source - but I think for Japanese manga production of non-manga material, you need approval from the writer? All the more to be suspicious of the mobile games that contains KuraNeon above every single pairing out there.

Hence, if you ask me, there is a chance of Kurapika/Neon being canon. How that might happen is a little tricky and depending on the type of portrayal they will be (I have four interpretations of this ship on my pinned post lol).

I’m not sure if you only define canon as the vanilla/romantic type, or it also includes one that is a little twisted. I've noticed that hxh has friendship and family dynamics that are already complicated and not as wholesome as one would think. I do believe that if KuraNeon were to be canon, it would be the latter interpretation.

There are actually a few things that are needed to be considered for it to happen: 1) Neon’s fate - she needs to be alive (or maybe not) Now, a lot of people believe she died because Chrollo’s book speculates that she does. However, we don’t see her dead body. It’s literally just Chrollo’s interpretation. This is contrasted by Kurapika that states that the previous Scarlet Eye owners did not need to be killed (and the “daughter of a mafia leader” is one of them). If the daughter of a mafia leader is truly Neon, then it brings a question of who should you believe more: Chrollo or Kurapika? (Imo it’s super interesting how these two guys who are enemies have different narratives on the same girl).

Of course, there was this potential discrepancy I found while re-watching this arc. The Scarlet Eyes that Kurapika bidded for 2.9 billion was a fake. They thought it was stolen when Squala took it with him and died - but it was actually that Kortopi’s Gallery Fake copy disappears after 24hour. So technically, the Eyes is with the Troupe. Now, assuming that Togashi has not forgotten this detail (I believe he still remembers), I do think that it is possible that since Chrollo is the type to get bored of the stuff he steals, he will just sell it and it will be obtained by the later owners. As for “the daughter of a mafia leader”, I’m sure it’s Neon that Kurapika is referring to - be it him mentioning her as merely a previous owner despite the set of Scarlet Eyes being “stolen” or she bought another set. (There is a chance that is not Neon, but another daughter of a random mafia leader, but what are the chances of another daughter being like that?)

I guess I just wanted to point this detail out because many people readily believed Chrollo’s book (it was not even himself). He stated that he did not know when it disappeared.

As for that “Hisoka killed Neon” theory, while it is believable and interesting, the only thing that is doubtful for that is that a) Hisoka could not have gone off to kill Neon in such a short period of time, b) that would be an insult to Kurapika’s capabilities if she was under his care, c) the fortune-telling ability doesn’t bother Hisoka. Pakunoda and Hisoka had a short conversation about the fortune and both of them acknowledged that the future changed. Hisoka wrote over his fortune despite having a good one to manipulate the events in hopes of fighting Chrollo - that is an indication of his belief that he writes his own future, and therefore which is why I argue that the fortune-telling ability never bothered him.

As for the “Kurapika killed Neon” theory, I think... they all need to get one thing straight about Kurapika: as much as possible, except for the spiders, he doesn’t kill (or at least dislikes to kill). He stated that none of the owners had to die even if two preferred to die. If there’s a way, he will not shed blood. Besides, Kurapika doesn’t actually hate Neon - contrary to popular belief. There wasn’t a single manga panel that indicates his hatred for her; or even annoyance. It was only the time where Mellody mentioned that he will kill her if she stands in the way, but Kurapika, as much as mentioned before, doesn’t kill if there is an alternative way.

I have yet to fully explore possible reasons why Neon’s ability disappears from Chrollo’s book if she’s still alive (my friend thinks it’s related to Kurapika’s dolphin ability). However, there are many rebuttals to the theories on how she died.

But yeah, I think for it to be canon, Neon has to be alive. Unless... they were already canon and he sailed to the Dark Continent and she died slightly before that event (tbh I rather not have this).

2) Kurapika’s fate - he needs to live

Number 2 is a condition is if they aren’t canon yet before he sails to the Dark Continent.

One thing that confuses people is that they think that just because Kurapika is under the Kakin Employment, it means that he is no longer affiliated with the Nostrades. The Kakin Employment contract is temporary - he is still affiliated with the Nostrades (and their business is bodyguarding, take note). As for him being in the Zodiac, he is still the Nostrade Family Young Boss - being part of the Zodiacs is like some political committee.

I know there are rumours (I say rumours cause I don’t see the interview script by my own eyes) that Togashi once indicated that the Phantom Troupe and Kurapika will all die. I do think that Togashi can kill one of his main characters, but there’s one thing that makes me question whether he changed his mind: Nitro Rice from the Dark Continent.

The Nitro Rice is a thing in the Dark Continent that prolongs one’s life - a direct solution to Kurapika’s Emperor Time problem. I think if he does last until they reach the Dark Continent, he has a chance to prolong his lifespan that he has lost while using Emperor Time.

Now, if he indeed gets to survive, manages to complete his mission, there’s another problem he will face: a will to live. Because currently, all he has ever lived for is bringing justice to his clan. Beyond that, what can he live for? Which kind of makes the ending for him to happily live with someone (be it his friends or having a family) a suitable one.

3) Neon’s development

Neon is seriously misunderstood among the fandom - even her personality. I’ve seen a lot of Kurapika x (other character) ships where Neon is the 3rd party in fanfics; and it is a one-sided love.

However, Neon is actually an emotionally detached person while Kurapika is the one that gets attached to people, even if he initially avoids them. Neon has what psychologists will call “Avoidant-Dismissive Attachment Style” while Kurapika has “Avoidant-Fearful Attachment Style”. This is rightfully so due to their different backgrounds. I actually believe that between the two of them, Kurapika will be the one who falls first or if this is one-sided, Kurapika is the one that likes her because of their attachment styles.

Neon has zero friends, is materialistic and lacks sympathy for dead people (the complete opposite of Kurapika). She believes in focusing on the present and the living (it’s actually a pretty good principle to live for). She needs to learn how to be more attached to people and learn compassion - which she actually is seen as being capable of. She was surprised that Eliza broke down and cried, and even forgo bidding physically. I think this is an indication of her starting to feel sympathy for people and perhaps being more mature - cemented by the fact that she lost her powers.

Therefore, I do think she needs to learn how to warm her heart up to people (which she might have already started to after the York New incident) if she were to feel something for Kurapika.

4) Kurapika’s view of her

Okay, this is one factor that is either you take it the vanilla way or the kinky way lmao. I actually wrote a Cognitive Dissonance Theory for Kurapika on my Tumblr post for this one (will try to link it in the reblog).

Kurapika’s initial belief is that flesh collectors are scums who should be arrested, yet he is surprised to see that his flesh-collecting employer is a girl of his age. I think there is already dissonance in his mind there once he met her.

Contrary to popular belief, Kurapika doesn’t hate Neon (there’s no single manga panel that ever once showed he detest her or feel annoyed with her; as compared to other employees of hers). In fact, he does quickly understand that Neon is being exploited by her father - to which he corrects Basho about the situation. In the manga, when he woke up after the fever, he says her name (in the 2011 anime, it was “Boss” but in the manga, it’s “Neon”) and immediately asks about her; which indicates that he is concerned for her. Of course, she is his employer but in that situation where he is bedridden and not working, him asking about her won’t be just due to him working as a bodyguard.

However, this doesn’t show that he has feelings for her. It only proves that a) he doesn’t hate her, b) he does care about her. He needs to see Neon as more than just a flesh collector for him to like her; on top of spending time with one another. He needs to see (if he hasn’t already) that she is a girl his age that has a different predicament than him.

This is the vanilla way I guess.

The darker and more saucy interesting interpretation would be him thinking it’s okay to objectify her just as much as she objectifies his clan’s eyes (that’s another post I gotta do for another day - but hey, this interpretation is paralleled to Tserreidnich/Theta).

5) Spending Time with one another

I think as mentioned, it is already a given that Kurapika and Neon had spent time together under one roof off-screen while we see Gon and Killua on-screen during the 3 arcs. However, I think Neon cannot suddenly become less detached and Kurapika cannot want something more than his mission at the moment; so I do think that even if they had spent time before Dark Continent Exploration arc, Neon and Kurapika needs to spend time together after he comes back (that’s if they haven’t banged before he sailed to the Dark Continent like they did in my fic lmao).

So yeah, I think these are generally the five things that I think should happen if they were to be canon.

I don’t know why I was compelled to do a long-ass post of this, but I hope this answers your question. I can go on and write a report about this but Imma stop here for now.

32 notes · View notes

itsthenovelteafactor · 3 years

Text

Vanya and the Phantom

I asked and y’all answered (special thanks to @schizoidwire and @the-aro-ace-arrow-ace and all the people who responded to my earlier post for encouraging me!), so it is time for how The Phantom of the Opera song introduction can be read as a look into Vanya’s self-narrative and also foreshadows future events in a really subtle and interesting way.

I’m channeling my inner Elliot and going into full conspiracy mode. This is gonna be a long one, y’all.

Part One: In Which I Expose Myself as a Former Theater Kid

So, for those who aren’t familiar with The Phantom of the Opera, it was originally a novel by French writer Gaston Leroux back in 1909. In 1986, Andrew Lloyd Webber rewrote it as a musical. For purposes of my analysis here, I am just going to be discussing the musical because 1) the score used in the opening scene is from it and 2) I’ve never read the book. (If anyone out there has read the book and wants to weigh in, please do!)

It’s a very aesthetic show, and draws on a lot of gothic themes and imagery. The plot follows an opera house, and specifically a young chorus girl named Christine Daaé. I’m not going to explain the whole show plot in detail because wikipedia exists, but I will do a quick overview here and point out some things as they relate to things I’ll be discussing later. Also there will be a test after and it will NOT be multiple choice.

The show begins when the opera house is sold to new owners who 1) just want to make money and 2) do not respect the opera house’s resident ghost (who isn’t really a ghost, but we’ll get to that later.) When the Phantom makes his presence known, and freaks out the resident prima donna singer (who will be relevant later) Carlotta, who says she won’t sing under these conditions. It is then that Christine appears. She’s quiet and humble and has always lived in the background, but is incredibly talented. The woman who runs the chorus (also owner of the opera house’s resident braincell) suggests Christine sing the part. She does, and is amazing. Everyone is blown away, and she’s catapulted into instant fame and success.

We later learn that Christine has been studying under the Phantom, who appears to her in mirrors. She calls him the Angel of Music, and thinks that he was sent to teach her by her recently deceased father. He isn’t. He’s actually pretty malicious, and is obsessed with Christine, wants to control her voice, and doesn’t like her dating anyone. Which is a bit awkward when her childhood friend shows up and promptly falls in love with her.

Anyways, Carlotta is jealous of the attention Christine has been getting and threatens to leave prompting the new owners to cut Christine from the program. The Phantom doesn’t like it at all, sends a bunch of letters, things escalate, people are murdered, and the whole first act ends with the chandelier falling from the ceiling and crashing onto the stage (which is done with really cool effects, oftentimes beginning the show hanging over the audience. It’s a BIG MOMENT and one of the most iconic ones from the show. This will also be relevant later.)

Act two takes place a few months later, wherein no one has seen the Phantom. Shock of all shocks, though, he’s not dead. He’s been writing an opera and he wants Christine to star in it. More stuff happens, you learn the backstory of the Phantom (which is pretty sad, ngl, but in no way makes him less of a creep) and the story ends with the Phantom kidnapping Christine and giving her an ultimatum: stay with him forever, or he kills Raoul (aka childhood friend/romantic interest guy). She agrees to stay with him and he’s so moved by her compassion that he lets them both go and disappears forever.

Part Two: Casting the Characters

That’s interesting, Rosie (note sarcasm) but you said this was about The Umbrella Academy? I did, in fact. So, we meet Vanya when she’s playing a medley of songs from The Phantom of the Opera. Since it’s primarily the melodies and not one of the orchestral pieces from her performance later (I don’t think), we can assume she’s just playing it for herself (which is nice! good on you, Vanya).

Maybe she’s never seen the play and just likes the score, but for purposes here, let’s assume she’s familiar with it.

You can tell a lot about a person by the stories they connect with (for example, I like TUA because I like fun sibling dynamics, found family, music, and being sad). And I think that it makes sense that The Phantom of the Opera would be a story that resonates with Vanya. The overlooked chorus girl finds power in music, and, after years in the background, is finally given a chance to show how special she is.

So, yeah. I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that Vanya sees herself as Christine. There are some discrepancies, sure, but this is Vanya’s self-narrative, which we learn pretty much immediately is unreliable. (Love her, but it’s true.) And if Vanya is Christine, then we can try and tap into her perspective to look at some other characters.

Anyways remember Carlotta (the prima donna opera singer who always got the spotlight and tried to destroy everything good that happened to Christine because she felt threatened that someone might be as good/better than her whose entire personality and role in the story I just summarized, rendering my plot recap useless)? Carlotta is how Vanya views Allison. (Kind of all her siblings, but her relationship with Allison is the most important here.)

Think about the scene in the cabin?

“You couldn’t risk me threatening your place in the house! You couldn’t handle the fact that Dad might find me special!” - Vanya, having a mental breakdown.

This always struck me as an interesting accusation to throw, since prior to this moment, I don’t think there was any indication that Allison had ever felt threatened by Vanya. She excluded her, sure, and wasn’t super friendly at times, but the idea that Allison has been pulling strings to keep Vanya out of her spotlight is new. But that is exactly the role Carlotta plays in Phantom.

Fun fact! At one point in the musical, the Phantom enchants Carlotta so that she loses her voice right before coming on stage.

Part Three: The Phantom of the Opera is there

So based on everything I’ve said so far, the most straightforward reading is then, that Leonard Peabody/Harold Jenkins (who for purposes here I’ll call Leonard) is the stand in for the Phantom, which works... really well. Both in helping to understand Vanya and also because it foreshadows the twist of season one in a really cool way.

So, the Phantom appears to Christine first not as an enemy, but as a friend and teacher, who encourages her to be more confident in her abilities. He trains her to develop her singing ability. While the teacher-student dynamic is actually inverted initially with Vanya and Leonard, from the get go, he is showering her with compliments, encouraging her to be confident in her abilities, and, at least on the surface, supporting her in a way she hasn’t been supported before (he’s a trash human but an expert manipulator).

But, in the play, the Phantom is also very possessive over Christine and her power (er, I mean voice). He also is perfectly willing to kill and/or hurt people who he views as standing in the way of Christine and her success (see the aforementioned Carlotta incident). Which is exactly what Leonard does to Vanya. He kills the first chair violinist to help her get it, and orchestrates a whole master plan to get her to reveal her powers on his terms.

Even the part where he starts “training” her to use her powers kind of resembles the second act of the play. The Phantom wrote a play for Christine and she’s going to star in it, whether she wants to or not.

(One could even make the argument of the parallels between Christine believing the Phantom was sent by her father to teach her and Leonard showing up because of his revenge scheme against Vanya’s father, but I honestly don’t have much support for that.)

Part Three: Two Conflicting Narratives

So, as you might’ve noticed, I sort of have two different threads of analysis going on right now. 1) The Phantom of the Opera parallel is part of Vanya’s self-narrative and in it she mischaracterizes Allison, making her more suspicious of her motivations and 2) Leonard Peabody is clearly the Phantom and doesn’t bother being subtle about it. I hope that I’ve been convincing (or at least intriguing) for you to get to this point, because here is where they come together.

Vanya has this parallel going, but she doesn’t see Leonard as the Phantom. In the beginning at least, he’s her Raoul. If I had to guess, I’d say Reginald Hargreeves is the Phantom in Vanya’s self-narrative (says he’ll train her but wants to manipulate her and keep her locked away for himself, strict teacher who doesn’t really care about her well being, wearing a mask to appear more normal/human... she wouldn’t exactly be wrong). Leonard, on the other hand, is Vanya’s supporter. He validates her, and believes in her, and taker her side when Carlotta and the opera house owners (er, the rest of the Hargreeves children) gang up on her and conspire to keep her out.

This is all building to, of course, the final confrontation. The Phantom says Christine has to pick one or the other. When Allison comes to talk to Vanya, Vanya feels as if she’s been given an ultimatum and lashes out.

And that’s where everything (including this parallel) starts to crumble.

(I honestly don’t know a lot about the other characters and how they fit in. I suppose we could have Five = Raoul if we ignore romance plot and focus on the childhood friend that hasn’t been seen in a while angle? And maybe also Pogo = Madame Giry. Vanya doesn’t really have any friends to be Meg.)

Part Four: It’s All About the Moon

So that is kind of the gist of The Phantom of the Opera as a window into Vanya’s self-narrative theory, but there are a couple of other loosely related ideas I thought I might as well bring up since this thing is already ridiculously long.

Remember how I mentioned the chandelier is like, THE scene from The Phantom of the Opera back in part one, and said it’d be relevant later? Bringing that back now, because I’m going to pull a Luther and connect everything to the moon.

So, to get the obvious out of the way, the moon exploding and the chandelier coming crashing to the stage are similar because something falls, breaks into a bunch of pieces, destroys a bunch of stuff, and creates a powerful and memorable image to close off before an act/season break (the next installment of which begins with a time jump).

Additionally, it’s worth mentioning that The Phantom of the Opera is told out of order. The opening scene shows a grown up Raoul at an auction for the items left behind after the opera house closes, and it switches to the past as the remains of the chandelier rise upwards to the ceiling, Phantom’s theme swelling (it’s a really cool moment, tbh). Following the prologue of The Umbrella Academy, we switch to the present with two images: Vanya alone on the stage, and then Luther alone on the moon. Which has a kind of symmetry that might mean nothing, but is still kind of cool.

(Also the item that Raoul buys from the auction is a music box with a monkey crashing symbols on top of it. Which might mean nothing.)

Part Five: How is she STILL talking about this? (AKA Conclusion)

To be honest, this is more a very tangled “things I noticed and thought were interesting” discussion than a formal essay with any clear thesis. While there is a chance that this was all coincidental and I’ve gone full Pepe Sylvia, the music selection in The Umbrella Academy is one of the things that they seem to be really deliberate about.

I would love to chat with anyone about this theory, so feel free to reach out in the notes or message me! My inbox is always open. Much love, and thank you for reading, if you got this far! ❤️

70 notes · View notes

smalldez · 3 years

Text

Blind spots and the choices in 3x08

Aka actually I’m obsessed with the morality in this episode

To preface: this post is not about to condemn any of the characters (who are supernatural TEENS and are gonna mess up big time, and are gonna have flawed motivations/executions). I really am just interested in the different perspectives that Legacies gave us this episode.

Let's start with Hope. Girl did some wild stuff this episode!! And while this is butchery of her character, this sort of behavior has been built up for episodes - this fixation, yes, obsession with Landon - and she's simply following through with that. Her response to desperation is the tragic hero's route. She ends up hurting people around her because they are skeptical about helping. And that's not they're fault; in fact, Legacies is finally addressing the how going in gun's blazing, willing to sacrifice it all, is not... the best. Within media, we perceive the willingness to achieve one's goal through any means necessary as "problematic but still excusable because it's coming from a place of noble devotion" or "extremely villainous" depending on who it's coming from and what the motivations are. Because Hope is our protagonist doing this out of love, but also hurting other protagonists, she falls well into the gray area. How do you move on from the violence, the manipulation - how do you move on from the fact that she would allow herself and Lizzie and Josie to die (or succumb to dark magic) for the vague hope of finding Landon again? This episode, Hope is the extreme, and now we and the show simply have to reckon with the extent of what she did.

Now, Lizzie, oh, Lizzie. Her original stance is siding with MG, but then she realizes that Josie is involved. Her response to desperation is essentially the same as Hope's, if somewhat more contained. She lies to MG, drains him dry, and goes off not to stop Hope, but to take Josie's place. She loves her sister dearly, but is still learning how to go about actually protecting Josie/allowing Josie to grow. Completely shutting her off from witch business is not the solution to that, but it makes sense why it would seem like that to Lizzie. However, the primary thing we must grapple with for her is how she treats MG. She knows that she's his blind spot, and exploits that in one of the most tragic moments of this episode: MG is so happy, because this person who he cares about immensely, though she has been slowly improving, has for the first time concretely demonstrated that improvement and stood by him. But just as quickly, she takes that all away. She says she'll start trying and make up for it all, "first thing in the morning." Listen. Recovery or "redemption" is not a linear path, but this?

On that note, let's talk about MG. He was not necessarily driven by "desperation" this episode - hiding the Ascendent was a long-term plan - but by a recognition of how bad it can get in this school. On some level, he must have known that there was a good chance the Ascendent was key to Landon's recovery, or else he wouldn't have gone to all these measures. He wanted to protect people, and he knows how these things work. He's lived through Alaric or Hope focusing on one thing or one person at the expense of not only their own well-being, but also everybody else. He's got enough sense (and read enough hero narratives) to know that diving into the Ascendent is an inevitability. So why not just come forward, anyways? During this season, MG has finally decided to prioritize himself. But forgoing your role as the helpful, ever-forgiving Black friend comes with consequences. And it comes with a realization that - maybe your opinion never held power. Maybe the moment you stand as an oppositional force, you will be rejected. Just like his fear about the Ascendent, this premonition comes true. Are we surprised that our boy was a little distrustful and deceitful?

Finally, Kaleb. I'm not going to go in depth about this, but he is the opposite extreme: inaction. He is in such personal conflict with his oath to MG but also his bond to MG, and ends up doing nothing. This is a miniature version of the "response to desperation" thing. It ends up inconsequential because of Cleo, but it's still something important to note about Kaleb's character and an alternate perspective that 3x08 is providing us with.

The final and arguably most important factor in this episode is Cleo, which is why I'm deviating from the list. Cleo is the new girl - she's a fresh perspective into the world of Legacies, asking important questions and challenging the Legacies' worldview. She is also going through a miniature "response to desperation" in terms of wanting to repair her and Hope's relationship, but largely we see her just trying to help as best she can. And she does! She is removed enough from the Legacies universe that she takes action and does something genuinely constructive. I think I'm actually just going to make another post about this, because I think it's really significant in terms of narratives and themes in the Legacies world (Legathemes, if you will), and I sort of got sidetracked here.

tldr; desperate motivations and OK outcomes, but presented in critical and moral ambiguous ways - this is the season of consequences, of complex understandings about characters, and I'm here for it.

#long post #i'm not trying to make any solutions to all the messed up stuff people did this episode. only my thoughts <3 #legacies #hope mikaelson #lizzie saltzman #milton greasley #kaleb hawkins #cleo sowande #anti handon #this isn't even that anti handon i really do just tag my posts with that as a precuation lol

20 notes · View notes

ouyangzizhensdad · 4 years

Note

I'm reading through some of your meta and in the one about WWX possibly weaponizing MXY being gay you mention how MXY being a molester was fabricated. I agree with this but I always thought that this was a personal headcanon and didn't realize that it was supported by canon. If you're up to it, please may you point me to where it might say this?

Hi anon,

I’m sad to report that there isn’t a scene where JGY admits before a jury that yes, it was I, I fabricated the claims against Mo Xuanyu, who was a hapless victim all along! which would be convenient for winning arguments quickly and easily. But, I promise you, so long as we read between the lines, it is undeniable that we are meant to understand by the end of the novel that the accusations leveled against Mo Xuanyu were baseless and that he was another victim of JGY’s (and NHS’s!) machinations.

Beyond a purely thematic reading of the novel, which would therefore highlight that the theme around how public opinion is willing to believe accusations and condemn without material or sensible proof (particularly so when it comes to people who do not hold a lot of power within society, those who are the Other) is one that is repeated across many characters, the narrative reveal of JGY’s true personality and actions indicates that the accusations against MXY were just another ploy of JGY’s.

At the very beginning of the novel, when WWX looks through Mo Xuanyu’s things, he’s able to piece out together that Mo Xuanyu’s “lunacy” seemed rooted in a deep and paranoiac fear of.... something. MXY didn’t just get thrown out of the Sect in disgrace--something clearly happened to him, or he clearly witnessed something that scared him out of his senses.

“after he returned, he seemed to have gone completely mad—although no one could tell what kind of shock he’d suffered. He had good days and bad ones. It was as if he had been scared witless.” [Chapter 1]

Further into the novel, it is revealed that MXY didn’t actually harass his “peers” but actually only one person: Jin Guangyao. Right after this reveal, we also learn that MXY used to treat JGY with the utmost respect and deference. While Jin Ling seems to misunderstand this past deification of JGY as a side-effect of MXY’s presumed feelings for him, as readers we can see how it actually raises doubts into the claims leveraged against MXY, as it would then seem very out of character for MXY to disrespect JGY by harassing him (especially if one considers that the risks of harassing his powerful half-brother definitely would not outweigh the benefits....).

“Don’t listen to [JGY],” said Wei Wuxian. “Let me tell you—when you grow older, you’ll find out that there are more and more people you want to beat up, but you’ll have to force yourself to get along with them nicely. So, since you’re still young, go beat up all the people you want. At such an age, if you don’t have a few proper fights, your life won’t be complete.”

Jin Ling’s face betrayed faint yearning, yet he still sounded contemptuous, “What are you talking about? Shushu’s advice is for my own good.”

After he spoke, he suddenly remembered that the past Mo Xuanyu had always regarded Jin Guangyao as a deity. He definitely would not have disagreed with Jin Guangyao in any way. Yet, now he was saying not to listen to him. Was it that he really did not hold any improper thoughts toward Jin Guangyao anymore?

(we also learn that Zewu-jun never knew about what supposedly happened, or even who MXY was, which again.....fishy.... JGY what are you hiding...... not mentioning someone harassed you to your bff is one thing, but not introducing him to your half-bro?.... )

Then! Almost right after we learn all this new information, it is also revealed through WWX’s paperman adventures and NMJ’s adventures that JGY is not who he has presented himself to be: he is a master manipulator, who has lied and continues to lie to preserve his position and to eliminate people he perceives as threatening the place he carved for himself in sweat and tears and blood.

At this point, the deal is pretty much sealed: we have an unreliable witness in the man we now know to be able to do incredibly scary and cruel things (a knowledge that will only be reinforced by the end of the novel once NHS’ plan is completed). What actually happened, how MXY went from someone who deified JGY to someone who would need to be sent away in disgrace and scared into silence and compliance, all this is not told to us by the novel. It is possible that JGY might have seen MXY as a potential accomplice to his deeds (like he did his other half-brother, XY) (EDIT: I DREAMED UP THAT XY was one of JGS’s bastard children, please disregard it), or that he might have seen MXY as a potential threat to his position because of they shared a father--honestly, I can see many possibilities here!

Also, it is important to consider that even the claim of MXY’s “lunacy” is pretty fraught and ambiguous. The novel ends up setting up the idea that MXY’s erratic behaviour was related to him being scared (as we see in the and frustrated at the injustice he received at the hands of both the Jin Sect and his family (for example, this piece of shino meta)

Finally, it’s a good time to remember that even MXY’s sacrifice was not a decision he made on his own: he was once again the victim of a mastermind with much more power and influence than he could ever dream to have. After all, the novel takes pain to explain to us that NHS’s schemes for revenge depended on MXY sacrificing himself (passage under the cut because this post is getting long!)

“Nie-zongzhu,” Wei Wuxian asked again. “I heard that you often travel between the Gusu Lan sect and the Lanling Jin sect, am I right?”

“That’s right.”

“Then did you really not recognize Mo Xuanyu?”

“Ah?” Nie Huaisang’s face twitched slightly.

“I remember that the first time I met you after my soul had been offered into his body, you acted as if you did not recognize me, and even asked Hanguang-jun who I was. Mo Xuanyu was then entangled anyhow with Jin Guangyao during that time* and was able to access even his secret collections, and you often went to find Jin-zongzhu to complain. Even if you and Mo Xuanyu were not familiar with each other, did you really not see him before at all?”

Nie Huaisang scratched his head, saying, “Wei-xiong, Jinlintai is so huge, I can’t possibly recognize everyone, even if I’ve seen them, I can’t remember. Moreover…”

Looking rather awkward, he continued, “You know about Mo Xuanyu’s identity back then, it’s slightly…...the Lanling Jin sect had tried their best to hide it, so it wouldn’t have been surprising if I had never met him before. Even Xichen-ge may not have met him before.”

“Oh, that’s true. Zewu-jun did not know who Mo Xuanyu was either.”

“Right! And what I don’t understand is, even if I had seen Mo Xuanyu before, why would I pretend not to recognize him? Was there such a need?”

Wei Wuxian laughed and replied, “Nothing much, I just thought it strange and was casually asking.

However, he thought, He was simply trying to see whether the ‘Mo Xuanyu’ he met was the real one.

For someone who was said to have been cowardly and weak, where would have Mo Xuanyu gotten the courage to sacrifice himself and offer his soul?

And as for Chifeng-zun’s left hand, why was it discarded? It could not be that Jin Guangyao would accidentally lose it.

Moreover, why was it that it happened to appear right at the Mo family residence, just when Wei Wuxian had been reincarnated, but not somewhere else?

If Chifeng-zun’s body had been buried by the QingheNie sect, would Nie Huaisang, who had always respected his older brother, not notice that his body had disappeared all these years?

Wei Wuxian was inclined to believe an alternative situation.

[...]

As such, [NHS] thought of another person; Mo Xuanyu, who had just been kicked out of the Golden Pavilion.

Perhaps in order to let Mo Xuanyu listen to him, Nie Huaisang had already spoken to him before and heard from an upset and anguished Mo Xuanyu that he had seen one of Jin Guangyao’s scrolls of forbidden spells recording a certain ancient demonic spell. He then took advantage of the Mo Xuanyu, who was then humiliated and bullied by his clan, to persuade him to perform the spell as revenge**.

And which fierce corpse would he summon?

Naturally, he would summon the Yiling Patriarch.

Unable to bear the days of humiliation any longer, Mo Xuanyu finally drew the array, and Nie Huaisang also took the chance to throw out the hot potato that was burning his hand: ChiFeng-Zun’s left arm.

From there on, his plan had begun and he no longer had to spend his own time and energy to find Nie Mingjue’s remaining body, leaving the dangerous and troublesome job to Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji. All he had to do was watch their actions closely. [Chapter 109]

*I changed the translation here, which originally said that “Mo Xuanyu was harassing Jin Guangyao” since I find (at least with my limited linguistic skills lmao) that the original is much more ambivalent. The clause is 莫玄羽当年好歹也纠缠过金光瑶, and the use of 好歹 signals to me toward ambivalence, which is further compounded by the fact that the verb 纠缠 does not necessarily translate to harassment. So I doubt that the original intent was to suggest that WWX was saying to NHS: shouldn’t you have known the dude who was harassing JGY? Anyone who knows Chinese more than I do is free to come and correct me if I am completely wrong in my assessment.

**Okay I changed the translation here again because the translation I was working with made it seem as if MXY was motivated by shame? but the original Chinese says 他便怂恿当时饱受族人欺辱的莫玄羽 which to me clearly points to his treatment by the Mo family/clan and to the fact that it was something being done unto him, not a state of mind he had.

#anon ask #mdzs meta #mo xuanyu #mxy #jgy #jin guangyao #nhs #nie huaisang #meta post follow-up #Anonymous

127 notes · View notes

lilylilym · 3 years

Text

How Yukine’s box closes and the upcoming Daddiest Heaven’s Arc

I must be the only one not currently into the Yukine’s past arc. Perhaps it’s because it kinds of happened before. I guess I have to re-read to catch on the emotional cue as to how he was driven to betray Yato. The whole “why don’t you trust me as a Shinki” thing. Of course Father, or to borrow the fandom’s terminology, Trash Dad™, manipulated the poor child into betraying Yato but the child also has heard about Trash Dad and what he had done to Yato, has he not? I know, I know, he’s an abused and manipulated child, and we literally cannot count on children all that much to know and do the logical thing. And that’s on Yato too for not... just communicate, man. Ahh, they’re all survivors of parental abuse--Yato, Yukine, Hiiro--displaying severe symptoms of trauma most particularly their inability to healthily and clearly communicate. I know, I know, I just get upset following this arc, because I know the tension is high for a reason but the narrative is a little trope-y with the whole “Main Character’s Precious Fluff Turned Evil Plotline™” I can’t remember where I have seen it but every time it happens I do not like it. The taunting of “ooh its me but I’m bad now I’m so much better without you” while main character has to beg them to remember what they share. I truly wish there was a way to advance the plot without having to go this route because it was foreseeable, at least for me.

I have not a single evidence about how it’s gonna be resolved, but this is my guess based on years of reading tropy shonen manga: the power of love, trust, and friendship (+perhaps other gods, probably Bishamon who just woke up, because of her tie to Kazuma, and Nana who recently was reminded that Bishamon is her benefactor) will lead to team Yato’s winning Yukine back. The God’s end-of-year Cleansing Party will coincide with this battle and Trash Dad will lose to Yato (or collective effort with the presence of other gods). In this process he will let known other information about his past and why he hated the Heaven so much. This information will implicate Yato or compromise his position, forcing him to be torn between the Father whom he wants to get away from but is still tied emotionally and the Heaven whom he knows is not just. Basically choosing between the lesser evil. It might make him wanting to renounce godhood. But Heaven will swoop in and take Trash dad away like they always do without letting Yato processing this information or learning more from him, and thus we will enter a new arc where the speed and stake are both heightened: who runs Heaven and how Heaven’s ancient wars (including the purging of Arahabaki) relates to the emergence of Trash Dad--how he came to be in relation to the loss of his loved one. The narrative point will move to explore those conflicts, and Yato might be forced to go against the heaven one more time to get to his dad (to rescue or access or otherwise) in order to find out the truth. Meanwhile the Gods™ crew finding out Ebisu’s old documents will come up with something related to this past. I’m guessing the underlying plot of heaven will be about the order of things, how the system of Shinki and Ayakashi are created or developed, to loop back into the brush that they stole from Izanami that Ebisu was obsessed over 2 arcs ago. This is just out of my ass and based on no indication whatsoever from the manga, but I’m gonna say that Heaven’s deep dark secret is that it could literally save all human soul after they die but they let Ayakashi run rampant so that Gods have something to do and Shinki can be created to kill Ayakashi. Hence their need to execute Ebisu on the spot without needing further investigation about what he was trying to get from Izanami. Because they K N O W the only thing that could be taken from there--a way to control Ayakashi. In Noragami’s world, since it draws from Shinto, hellish stuff doesn’t exist and it seems like the scariest thing is just a bundle of Ayakashi that is at best 5 slices away. So what other drama can it be, right? Trash Dad is trash but he by no means will be the last villain of the series based on the way he is portrayed. At this point, we kind of have to align with his view about how Heaven conducts things--based on the two events of Ebisu’s execution and the battle with Bishamon. Damn, talking about having no due processes. A lot of people have theorized about Amaterasu being forced to reincarnate to carry out Heaven's will. My (mostly trollish) brain comes to a theory of another Trash Dad, the most trash of all what which is none other than Izanagi who has something to do with whatever bullshit is happening in Heaven.

- First, it’s because Trash Dad and Child abuse seems to be having its moment and everywhere we look there’s a trash dad, and everywhere we turn there’s a kid being abused so why not go all the way. If Her Highness Amaterasu also has a trash dad who are we to demand better.

- Second, since Izanami has been introduced, Izanagi has to show up and in one of the tales about them he legit locked her in Yomi after seeing her decomposing body. The tale went something like this:

Izanami passed away after birthing a bunch gods, and went into Yomi. Izanagi followed her but couldn't rescue because she already ate Yomi’s food. She pleaded with the gods but the waiting process was long, and Izanagi couldn’t fucking wait despite being instructed to do so. He charged in to see that she was a decomposed body and peaced the fuck out, leaving a large stone right at the gate of Yomi after escaping. After fleeing from Yomi, that’s when Izanagi created Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, Susanoo, and Shina-tsu-hiko.

Husband of the year Izanagi is not--so I’m guessing our authors will do something with this tale concerning the brushes or Izanami’s ability to create Ayakashi (to be her friends since her husband sucks) versus Izanagi’s ability to create gods.

- Lastly, the first child of Izanami and Izanagi was said to be Ebisu. They were doing a marriage ritual and fucked it up, with Izanami speaking first and thus the child being born is deformed they put it out on a basket and let it float in the sea. Since this detail was mentioned in the manga to a certain extent, I’m guessing we’ll meet the father, esp when Ebisu made it a point to come see mommy and borrow her creation. In a way he’s defying father’s rules (if we’re going with the theme of Trash Dad’s power trips) to create a world after his ideals rather than traditions. And since Ebisu has such an emotional punch (even tho he was there for a whooping few chapters) and played the greatest role in inspiring Yato to go against his own Trash dad, I assume that this character building means something.

OK I was only gonna complain a lil bit about this arc but here I am 2 hours later full into theorizing mode. Hello, I just started watching Noragami anime 3 days ago and now I have finished everything there is and read all the blogs and probably all the theories. I have the last question that I wanna ask: How the fuck did Yato’s Trash Dad get to Heaven in the Heaven Treason Arc??? If he’s not a god or not having a shrine, how did he get there, or did I miss something??

#noragami #Noragami theories #Noragami meta #yato #ebisu #yukine #amaterasu #izanami #izanagi

23 notes · View notes

coffeeandcalligraphy · 3 years

Text

The Wolf-Antelope Will Not Come for Us | Short Story & collection update!

Hi everyone!

Today I’m back with a short story update for a new lil piece called The Wolf-Antelope Will Not Come for Us.

Just a reminder: This is my original work and plagiarism of any form will not be tolerated.

Plot:

After a young girl is allegedly killed by a wolf-antelope, Addie prepares catering services for the funeral while trying to impress charming cult leader, Axel.

Genre: Literary fiction, short fiction

POV: First person present tense

Word count: ~1449

Characters:

Addie (early teens)

Our narrator. Submissive, looking for approval, naive (a lil brainwashed).

Axel (unknown age)

Leader of a religious cult known as the Gates. Domineering, manipulative, has a thing for walnuts, apparently.

Rosa (early teens)

Is dead throughout the story, but we can assume she experimented with her femininity to the disapproval of other Gate members and had a close relationship with Axel.

Conception:

I needed to write this story for a class (must hand it in this coming week lol!) but could NOT get an idea. I’m a little short fiction’d out because I’ve been on a slight roll since July where I’ve written four stories. This would’ve been my fifth in such a short timeframe, and I really wasn’t feeling any short fiction inspo. However, I am a writing major :) which means :) I had no choice :) and I needed an idea FAST! I only had 2 weeks to draft the story, and spent last week tinkering with a different story called The Factory. That story has been giving me some ~trouble and as the week ended and I had not come up with a discernible way to revise it, I decided I needed to write something new.

While attempting revisions on The Factory I’d gotten an idea for a very loose opening to a different short story. It sat there for a while as I tried to make The Factory work, but yesterday, determined to write a draft, I said “let me just try this new story”, sat down, and forced myself to write it!

The writing bit:

I drafted this story in one day, in about three sessions scattering from mid morning to very late at night. Like I said, this was a case of “I just need to finish a draft” which I can rarely do because my headspace when writing short fiction especially is quite meditative and requires time. However, I did not have time! About halfway through the day, I got lost with the story’s direction and had no idea what to do, but managed (somehow!) to push through. The latter half of the story came to me much easier than the first half, which was very difficult. The middle section was trickiest for me because I knew how the story would end, but not would lead up to that, and overall, I think the draft is okay!

I’ve found it increasingly more difficult to write in first person present tense because of how stream-of-conscious-y it can be! I’ve written like 10 books in that POV, but it’s been so long since I’ve practiced that I don’t know how to “root” my narrative when it’s first person present tense. Because of that, the story is quite airy, though I think it works quite well with the voice that is quite self-chiding and instructional, and I think it will make a perfect place in my collection I’m working on.

SPEAKING of collection! If you didn’t know, I am very tentatively writing a short story collection mostly because I have a whole bunch of short stories lying around and some of them are getting published :) so why not!

I don’t have a title for this collection yet which apparently means it’s not a real project (my logic why), but I’m a bit over 30k if we’re counting a few of my older stories (which I’ll most likely swap out, but we’ll see). Here’s a list with tentative order (this will 100% change what even are collection orders I don’t know):

I’m more shocked that I’ve written this many short stories lol how did this happen. I’ve been trying to brainstorm titles, but nothing has bit yet, so until then I feel like this project isn’t fully “set” (I am weird and cannot work if I don’t have a title). As you can see, the status section is pretty vague because I haven’t really dug my feet into pursuing this collection/haven’t read most of these stories since I drafted them, it’s just something that’s happening in the background. Overall, I’m noticing a LOT of similar themes, which would be femininity, the pursuit of individuality, the lack of individuality, sexuality, identity, girlhood, death, and murder.

Aesthetic:

To end off this update, here is an aesthetic for TWAWNCFU!

That’s going to be it for this update! Keep your eye out for a Feeding Habits update, coming soon!

Taglist (please ask to be added or removed!)

@if-one-of-us-falls, @qatarcookie, @chloeswords, @alicewestwater, @laughtracksonata, @shylawrites, @ev--writes, @jaydewritesfiction, @jennawritesstories, @eowynandfaramir, @august-iswriting

#writing #amwriting #writeblr #writerblr #writingupdates #shortstories

40 notes · View notes

a-student-out-of-time · 4 years

Text

Rambling about V3 Again

Today I saw a really interesting quote from author Brandon Sanderson and it honestly got me thinking. He talked about what he considers the single worst thing you can do with critique in writing, and that’s if a critic “tries to make your story into one they would write, rather a better version of one you want to write.”

That got me thinking about V3.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that V3 is a very polarizing game, and I’ve seen many people talk about how they would’ve preferred to see the story play out, from character arcs to deaths to story conclusions. And while I do honestly enjoy seeing alternative perspectives and takes and AU’s, I feel like a lot about the game, what it’s trying to say and be, is skewed by those ideals.

I’m not saying that the critiques about the game are invalid, because there are a fair share of flaws with the game. What I am saying is that we end up talking so much about what we wish V3 could’ve been that what V3 was trying to be often ends up lost in that, and I want to talk about it.

It wasn’t until I really saw this quote that I was able to articulate all my likes and dislikes about the game and the reactions to it into a cohesive whole, which is what I’d like to do here.

So let’s ask this: what was V3 really trying to be?

Let’s start from the game’s theme: the relationship between truth and lies. This is best exemplified by the fact that you have the option to lie during trials, that you can use deception to find the truth. That’s a very different take from the previous games, where hope was associated with finding and confronting the truth.

Kokichi is another example, as he’s a self-admitted liar who claims to lead a criminal organization and it’s hard to tell exactly what he’s thinking or saying. Yet Kokichi actually helps bring the group to several truths: he helps find the culprit in trials, he reveals Maki’s identity as the Ultimate Assassin, tells the truth about Gonta murdering Miu and it’s thanks to his actions that the group later discovers the reality of their situation.

Throughout their journey, the group is confronted by numerous truths they don’t want to acknowledge, even refusing to do so and attacking people who continue to push them through. And with every revelation, there’s always those lingering details that don’t really make a lot of sense.

Let’s look at the game’s main narrative. At the start of the game, Kaede remembers she was kidnapped in broad daylight, thrown into a van, and brought to some abandoned school with a bunch of other people. She doesn’t act like a particularly nice person and is dressed differently, at least until the Monokubs arrive and give everyone their new clothes and memories. From that point, the narrative shifts considerably.

Kaede is suddenly an outgoing, optimistic leader and Shuichi is a sullen, withdrawn detective who serves as her deuteragonist for Chapter 1. She’s resolved to escape the Killing Game and tries to rally the group together. However, when her methods don’t prove successful and they start drifting away from her, she considers saving them by any means necessary and goes so far as to attempt murder against the mastermind. When that happens, she’s found guilty and executed, leaving Shuichi to take up her role as protagonist.

As you go through the game, using devices called flashback lights that apparently reawaken lost memories, you learn more and more about the reason that the group was brought here: the Gofer Project. When meteors began raining down on earth, all seemed lost until they established this project to send a group of survivors into space to colonize a new planet. A group of Ultimates.

They had established early on that Ultimates have even greater rights in this world: they’re the only ones allowed to vote and hold office. As the meteors came down and the news of this project got out, some people formed a cult that believed it was divine judgement and that mankind should be destroyed. That’s when they began the Ultimate Hunt, pursuing the candidates for the Gofer Project across the world. The Ultimates, with no other way out, decided to erase their memories of talent and live their last days as normal people.

To protect them, the people in charge spread a false story that the Ultimates had died, even holding a fake funeral for them and sent them into space secretly. However, while everyone was in cold sleep, one member of the cult- Kokichi- had sneaked aboard and piloted the ship back to the ruined and now inhospitable earth. They have no way back and no way to survive outside, and thanks to Kokichi’s claims to be the mastermind, they’ve been killing each for nothing. The group ultimately loses hope.

However, they’re resolved to continue on in their fight against the mastermind when they find a flashback light that reveals they weren’t just any ultimates: they were the next generation of ultimates from Hope’s Peak Academy. It wasn’t really the meteorites that got everyone, it was an alien virus that pushed mankind to the brink of extinction. That the cult that rose in the wake of this was Ultimate Despair.

That seems like a definitive way to link this game with its predecessors...until you really begin to stop and pick it apart. If this was about saving mankind, why did nobody have their memories right away? Why would you only bring 16 people? Why students who don’t make them suited to colonization? Why people like a death row inmate, a serial killer, a self-proclaimed liar and criminal, and an assassin?

Furthermore, going through many Fte’s highlights how much of the characters’ backstories seem very out there. Gonta wasn’t raised by wolves but a race of dinosaur people living in the woods, Kirumi is so hyper-competent that she became prime minister during the meteor crisis, Korekiyo’s killed almost 100 women and yet has never been caught, Maki can attend high school despite Japanese orphanages being too underfunded for kids to usually attend, Tenko’s neo-aikido breaks all the rules of traditional aikido and she's impulsive, has low pain tolerance, and disregards fair rules, none of which are very befitting of a martial artist.

And to conclude, even I thought that the reveal of their connection to Hope’s Peak felt very fanficy and out there, especially when the game had made no references or implications of it beforehand. But the reason for all of this is simple and effective:

None of this is real. It’s all staged.

Chapter 6 reveals that everything from their identities to the outside world they thought they knew was all just a fabrication. In truth, Tsumugi shows herself as the mastermind and that they’re actually in the 53rd season of an in-universe show called Danganronpa. Something alluded to even in the beginning of the game with the Team Danganronpa logo. This moment was very make or break for a lot of people, but let’s treat it fairly.

According to Tsumugi, the outside world has become a peaceful, boring place and Danganronpa is the only source of real entertainment the people have. A place where people literally come to have their identities replaced with those of Ultimates and then made to kill each other. This, as it turns out, was an outgrowth of the actual series we’d played before. A game that’s gone over 53 times.

This revelation is devastating for the characters. The lives and memories they’d known were all fabrications, which Tsumugi claims to have intentionally written. The Flashback lights were designed to implant fake memories to manipulate them, which is why that Hope’s Peak connection was set up after everyone gave up following the reveal of the outside world. A truth that could lead the world to despair, a lie that could lead the world to hope.

She even goes so far as to show everyone’s audition tapes, claiming that Kaede, Kaito, and Shuichi himself were willing to participate in the killings out of sheer misanthropy, popularity, and morbid excitement

Kiibo is also revealed to be the audience’s means of interacting with the game, able to carry out their wishes and can even be hijacked and used as a way to fight against the characters’ decisions.

In the end, Tsumugi claims that the ongoing battle of hope vs despair needs to continue in perpetuity and that the survivors need to sacrifice someone, since only two people can survive Danganronpa. Shuichi, however, convinces Maki and Himiko not to vote for anyone and actually convinces the in-universe audience to give up on the series. Kiibo then blows the set to hell and allows Shuichi, Maki, and Himiko the chance to escape and see the world outside and what sort of influence they could have.

Now, let’s this break this down piece by piece here, because I feel like this part of the game is often conflated. Often I’ve seen people say that Chapter 6 is a giant middle finger to fans of the series, that nothing about the series really mattered, or that the flaws of the game can simply be attributed to bad writing on the creator’s part.

I honestly used to be in that camp myself, but the more I’ve thought about it, the more I feel those statements don’t hold up to scrutiny. We often conflate writing and narrative decisions we don’t like with bad writing. However, if the creator deliberately wants the narrative to move in that direction and has made intentional foreshadowing, references, and motivations that match it, we can’t simply equate that with it being “badly written.”

It’s not bad simply because we would’ve preferred they do something different. There’s a lot of very acclaimed books out there that I’ll admit I don’t care for because of their narrative decisions, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say they’re badly-written.

Furthermore, if something intentionally doesn’t make sense in-story, that is not bad writing. That is purposeful on the part of the creator, not a plot hole. The Gofer Project is not supposed to be a logical narrative, it’s meant to serve V3′s role: deconstruction of the nature of the series. It does this in many different ways:

Sequelization: 53 is a ridiculous amount of entries in a franchise and as I’m sure we’re all aware, as the number of entries goes up, the writing quality tends to go down. The Gofer Project story was purposefully meant to be nonsensical because it’s a story in an in-universe franchise that jumped the shark long ago.

A lot of people found it confusing or ridiculous that Shuichi and Kaede would have a romantic connection despite knowing each other barely a few days. That’s also the point; quick romances are a convenient narrative device to establish a means for character growth, followed by fridging her, a bad narrative trope designed to propel Shuichi toward development. Tsumugi even said as much during Chapter 6.

Similarly, Maki’s role in the story and her feelings for Kaito were reminiscent of that as well, with him helping her come out of her shell.

When you go back, you can see Danganronpa is loaded with references to other series. Tsumugi is an obsessive otaku and went so far as to fill the entire story with deliberate references and callbacks to things she enjoys.

The Monokubs are deliberate references to executive decisions to add more marketable and merchandisable characters as the series drags on.

The fact that there are (supposedly) people willing to sign up for a killing game deconstructs the idea that some in the fandom may have had. That is, actually being in a killing game would not be fun or exciting, but horrific and traumatizing. Most of us wouldn’t be badass detectives or heroes, we’d be scared out of our minds, afraid, and want to find a way out.

Furthermore, Shuichi being repeatedly told that he’s just a fictional character and that his role is to be the protagonist, to go through hardships and come out stronger for the audience’s entertainment pisses him off so much that he wants no part of it.

The climax is ultimately a deconstruction of what the series is famous for: the battle of hope vs. despair. In-universe, this has been reduced down to a simple narrative where the audience wants the same thing again and again: to see hope win in the end. Because hope keeps winning, the audience keeps wanting more. It’s become so formulaic that the audience doesn’t want to break out of its shell and just wants to see it over and over.

The final PTA against Kiibo is not meant to be an insult to the audience, but a representation of fighting against toxicity and entitlement in the fanbase, especially the ones that don’t want change. It’s not saying “you’re stupid for liking this series,” it’s saying “don’t be like these people.”

And how does the game? An unsatisfying ending that’s so bad that it drives the audience to give up on the show, finally allowing the killing to stop. Tsumugi decides she can’t live in a world without her favorite show and decides to die.

And that brings me to what I think is the ultimate thing that people conflate about the ending: that it’s all fiction, so nothing about it matters. That the entire franchise was fake, so it’s not worth your time.

That’s exactly the opposite of what V3 is trying to say.

First, Tsumugi is a completely unreliable narrator. The kind of person who let fiction consume her entire life, yet she believes it can’t change reality. She’s a liar and a hypocrite, and there’s no way of knowing if anything she says about the outside world is even true. It could be like she says or it might not be.

The fact that they have technology that can remove memories and add fake ones adds an entire dimension of ambiguity to everything she says, especially when you consider how the beginning of the game does not match up with what she says. We have no idea what the kids were really like before the killing game, so why should we believe anything she says?

And how can we be certain of her claims that she just wrote everything as planned? Kokichi and Kaito managed to put together a plan that completely threw her and Monokuma for a loop

Shuichi, Maki, and Himiko ultimately choosing to take the words of Kaede, Kaito, and Tenko to heart, even if they were part of a fictional narrative, is proof that they still had an influence on the trio. They choose to take something meaningful from their experiences regardless of the reality of their situation. And that’s something we all do.

The media we consume has an influence over who we are as people, and it’s part of why so many of us have such strong attachments to works we love. They were often influential in help shape who we are as people now, for good and for ill, and it’s important to take that into account.

V3′s message is that yes, that is important, and that you should read and enjoy stories and fiction, just as long as you don’t let it consume your life. They can influence you and even the world at large, and so it’s our responsibility as writers, artists, and creators to use that influence positively, to use the medium as a way to change the world for the better. That the only way for stale franchises that we’re tired of seeing over and over is to demand change, even if that means walking out on them. That the only way for things to change is for us to take action and demand change.

And by the end, we may not see immediate results, but we can at least work hard at trying to bring them about. V3 ends with Shuichi, Maki, and Himiko facing an uncertain future in a world they really know nothing about, but hopeful that their actions can and will change the world for the better. Real life doesn’t have solid, satisfying conclusions and it always doesn’t play out like a story, but that doesn’t mean you should give up on ever finding something satisfying or hopeful out there.

This, by no means, is me saying that V3 is a flawless story. I can point to numerous critiques that I still think hold water. However, Sanderson’s point is that we shouldn’t criticize a work based on what we wish it was rather than how it is and what it was trying to do.

I know there’s a lot about the story that bothers people, I know there’s a lot that wasn’t polished and a lot that feels uncomfortable and hard to swallow. Like Shuichi, coming out feeling confused, lost, unsure of what to do, but choosing to see merit and things to take to heart even in a story that turned out to be full of lies and uncomfortable truths.

If you didn’t enjoy V3, I wouldn’t force you to enjoy it. If you did love it, then you should love it. These are all just my thoughts on a story that, as time goes on, honestly feels more and more relevant to me.

#mod talks #a student out of time #mod rambles #danganronpa v3 #v3

35 notes · View notes

jackoshadows · 4 years

Text

@currentlyconfused16

So I didn’t want to reblog this post:

https://currentlyconfused16.tumblr.com/post/618980963706355712/jackoshadows-reganx2

you commented on since it had other reblogs and comments and I thought I would make a separate post on this since I have received similar comments on other posts, namely that:

I actually do think and hope that Sansa will end up as the Lady of Winterfell in the books (maybe Queen of the North, idk) but she’ll be much more prepared, as her current arc in the books is about learning how to play the game of thrones and being in charge of her own destiny, surrounded by her family. Which is why her show ending is so disappointing. Yes, she ends up on a throne in Winterfell, but she’s alone, with no family or true friends around her, surrounded by bannermen who hardly know her. The books have always put emphasis on the Starks being and working together in the end, and they all end up alone.

So let me address why I think that Sansa is not going to end up in charge of Winterfell at the end of the books. This is just my interpretation and speculation based on the books and the author’s thoughts and opinions.

I am coming at this from the perspective of a book reader. If you have not read the books, then just skip to the tl;dr version at the end 😁

First, note that the only ending on the show confirmed to be from the books/GRRM is Bran being King on the Iron Throne/7K. D&D have variously explained the badly written other endings of the show as being there to ‘subvert expectations’ and because ‘it would be different’ and ‘it would be unexpected’ and to ‘surprise the audience’ etc.

Second, playing the game ≠ ruling a kingdom. The show equated the two in order to push their Queen Sansa narrative. But that has never been a thing in the books. GRRM has clearly shown this with the narratives of the actual rulers and entire books on what it actually takes to rule city states. What Littlefinger does in the books and what Dany, Stannis and Jon do are entirely different things. The one has no connection to another. Do you think that Littlefinger or Varys would be good rulers?

Sansa’s ending has been particularly criticized because it makes no sense - it’s like fitting a round peg into a square hole. D&D knew the book endings from GRRM before they wrote season 3 - if Sansa is going to end up in charge of Winterfell, he would have have given them a path to queen Sansa and they could have figured out a way to do it on the show.

In contrast to Bran/Isaac Hempstead who sat out an entire season, was sidelined and basically given nothing much to do on the show other than exposition, D&D have admitted in interviews that they wanted MORE Sophie Turner on the show and therefore gave her the plot of another book character.

Their exact words:

“And it’s because of Turner’s strength, Benioff continued, that it made sense to give Sansa a dramatic storyline this season and to use Ramsay’s engagement for that very purpose. In fact, the showrunners first thought about putting Sansa and Ramsay together back when they were writing season 2. “We really wanted Sansa to play a major part this season,” Benioff said. “If we were going to stay absolutely faithful to the book, it was going to be very hard to do that. There was a subplot we loved from the books, but it used a character that’s not in the show.”

https://ew.com/article/2015/04/26/game-thrones-sansa-ramsay-interview/

To re-iterate, Sansa will have nothing to do with the battle of the bastards or retaking Winterfell in the books. She is stuck in the Vale and will not be going North anytime soon. Ramsay Bolton is Theon Greyjoy and Jon Snow’s nemesis. They are going to be the ones taking him down along with Stannis Baratheon.

Out of all the Starks, Sansa has the least connection to the North in the books. She grew up revering the south and learned from a Septa. Every other Stark (Other than Rickon) knows more about the North and how it works than Sansa Stark. We can read it in their POV chapters. Every other Stark has a living Direwolf - the symbol of house Stark. Sansa lost hers after siding against her family and with the Lannisters.

The show just put the Starks into boxes: Sansa - politician, Jon - warrior, Arya - fighter/Killer, Bran - warg. This is not true in the books. Arya and Jon are also strong wargs and connected to Rickon and Bran through warging via their direwolves. Something that Sansa cannot do because Lady is dead.

Jon Snow is planning Stannis’ entire Northern campaign, advising him on the finer details of Northern politics and battle. He has learned the same as Robb from the same people. So has Bran. Bran Stark has actually ruled Winterfell as the prince of Winterfell. Arya Stark sat by her father Ned Stark and learned from him as he worked with the people of the North. She is currently learning manipulation, reading emotion, languages and courtly manners from the Faceless Men.

There is no way that Sansa is going to be in charge of Winterfell over these other Starks who have actual experience and knowledge in how the North works as opposed to her. Does Sansa know how to attack Deepwood Motte? Does Sansa know how to approach the Mountain clans? These are things that Jon has learned from Ned Stark - the man that Sansa calls stupid on the show.

Then there is the fact that GRRM has put a couple of obstacles in the story to prevent Sansa from getting Winterfell as Ned’s eldest daughter.

She is still married to Tyrion in the books - a marriage that cannot be easily annulled. There has to be a friendly regime in KL before this marriage can be undone. Until then she is disinherited by Robb Stark’s will and no ruler friendly to the North will want to see a Lannister get Winterfell.The show ignored this marriage.

Jon Snow has been legitimized as Jon Stark by Robb Stark’s will. That makes him the eldest living Stark child and his age, experience and knowledge of the North makes him a strong contender to be Lord of Winterfell as opposed to LF’s protégé in the south. If he becomes KITN by Robb’s will in the books, he will also be the Lord of Winterfell. The show ignored all this to make Sansa Lady of Winterfell.

Robb’s will is binding. Meaning that once Jon is legitimized, there is no going back on this. Catelyn makes it a point to warn Robb about this - which indicates that it will be important later on in the books.

Bran and Rickon are still alive and well in the North. GRRM reminded everyone on his blog that Rickon was still alive in the books after the show killed him off to make Sansa the Lady of Winterfell on the show. Bran randomly tells Sansa that he cannot be lord of anything, only to go on to become King on the show. Garbage writing to once again justify Sansa in charge of WF even if it makes no sense.

Now, one can make the argument that if Rickon dies in the books as he does on the show, Bran is king of the 7K at the end and Jon is exiled as in the show, then Sansa can end up in charge of Winterfell. I disagree. Why? The answer is Arya.

Arya is arguably GRRM’s central female character in the books. She is the female character with the most POV chapters in the books after Jon and Tyrion. She was one of the first characters he created and other characters like Sansa were created around her. Sansa was created as a foil to Arya and because he wanted that one Stark family member who did not get along with the rest of them like for all the other houses.

Because of D&D’s open preference for Sansa over Arya - they have said as much in interviews - they gave over many of book Arya’s narrative themes, plot significance and relationships to show Sansa. The entire reason for why Sansa ended up in the North on the show is plot borrowed from the books for another character that is all about Arya’s importance to the North and several characters and houses fighting over Arya Stark to hold the North. The North is rising up for Arya in the books. They basically erased Arya from her story to put Sansa in there. Thematic words like - ‘The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives’ belong in Arya’s story in the books, not Sansa’s.

So basically the show had to co-opt Arya’s story and hand it over to Sansa to give her a path to QITN/Lady of Winterfell on the show. It could not be any more clearer here which character is headed towards being Lady of Winterfell and possible Warden of the North in the books. Hint: It’s not Sansa.

Arya still has a strong connection to her Direwolf Nymeria described thus:

“She says there's this great pack, hundreds of them, mankillers. The one that leads them is a she-wolf, a bitch from the seventh hell."

"Some will tell you that they are demons. They say the pack is led by a monstrous she-wolf, a stalking shadow grim and grey and huge. They will tell you that she has been known to bring aurochs down all by herself, that no trap nor snare can hold her, that she fears neither steel nor fire, slays any wolf that tries to mount her, and devours no other flesh but man."

“Wolves. Hundreds of the bloody beggars." He'd lost two sentries to them. The wolves had come out of the dark to savage them. "Armed men in mail and boiled leather, and yet the beasts had no fear of them. Before he died, Jate said the pack was led by a she-wolf of monstrous size. A direwolf, to hear him tell it. The wolves got in amongst our horse lines too. The bloody bastards killed my favorite bay."

And as per GRRM, Nymeria and her pack of wolves will have a major role to play in the North where they are headed. We already know that direwolves are going to be taking on Ramsay’s dogs in the battle of the bastards from GRRM’s notes. Which direwolves? Ghost? Shaggydog? A Bitch from the seventh Hell with her pack of wolves? All of them?

Arya is symbolic of the North. The other daughters of the North - Lyanna Mormont, Wylla Manderly, Alys Karstark etc. - are all Arya types in terms of personality and looks. The Arya/Lyanna comparisons have been strongly made in the books for a reason.

And finally Arya is the only Stark to have the Stark look. The only one. Think about this for a second - who would GRRM have end up as the last Stark in charge of Winterfell if Bran, Rickon and Jon are out of contention for the position? The Stark with the traditional long face and grey eyes of House Stark or the Stark with the red hair and blue eyes of house Tully?

Who will be Lady of Winterfell? The Stark with the Direwolf or the Stark without one? The Stark who has learned how the North works from her father or the Stark who has not learned this? The Stark who is still following her father’s words - ‘The man who passes the sentence should wield the sword’ while far away in Braavos or the Stark who is complicit in her little cousin’s slow poisoning in the Vale?

And lastly Arya has a lot of foreshadowing/hints of becoming a leader in the books. She is one of the rare nobles in the books who is friendly with the small folk, sympathizes with them and actively helps them - hallmarks of GRRM’s leaders like Dany and Jon. Varys’ description of a perfect ruler fits Arya to a tee:

Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them"

Of course Varys is describing Aegon here, but everything he says holds true for Arya as well and is basically GRRM laying the groundwork for leader Arya. Arya’s ability to connect with the common folk, to identify with them, to work with them, to know them personally, to sympathize with them, is all leading to a path towards her becoming a leader of all the people.

And finally why am I saying that this Queen Sansa is D&D giving Sophie Turner her desired ending? Because that’s very evident from all their interviews. Sophie has wanted Sansa to be Queen and has been pushing this narrative since season 6 - talking about how every other character was useless except for Sansa - something that Sophie seems to actually believe in.

D&D have openly stated in interviews that at a certain point they stopped adapting Sansa and Arya from the books and based these characters on what Sophie and Maisie wanted for them. And Maisie clearly takes her lead from Sophie. That’s why the show versions resemble a self insert Mary sue propped up at the expense of other characters.

Queen Sansa at the end makes absolutely no sense when her brother, a Stark, just became King of the 7K. You mentioned as much in your post. So why was it there? In an interview they gave in Japan after the show ended D&D talked about being most interested in the Stark sisters and their endings because they had known them as child actors and seen them grow into adults from tiny children. (Isaac for some reason gets no such consideration from them even though he was an even younger child actor).

So it was not really about the characters at that point but more about the actors. It’s not that hard to put two and two together and come up with four here. It was a completely nonsensical ending for Sansa in a long list of other nonsensical endings on the show that they just put in there to make Sophie happy. That’s all. It’s clear they had just given up on making a well written show for the final season with shit like ‘Well Dany just forgot about the Iron fleet’ . So what’s one more garbage writing in there to make their child actress happy?

And to be clear, I am not blaming Sophie here. I am blaming the adults, the supposed expert writers of a big budget HBO TV show adapting a popular book series. Who, instead of adapting the book characters, decided to let a couple of teenagers dictate the writing for their characters on this show.

TL;DR: The show reduced and took away Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon’s important roles in the North in the books and replaced it with Sansa from season 5 onwards in order to give Sophie Turner more to do on the show. They gave away book Arya’s narrative themes, plot significance and importance to show Sansa, then kicked Arya out and gave the North to the least deserving Stark on the show. The only logical conclusion that can be made from all this is that Sansa will not end up Lady of Winterfell/QITN in the books.

#Arya Stark #Bran Stark #Jon Snow #Rickon Stark #House Stark #Asoiaf #GOT #anti D&D #Book Sansa

51 notes · View notes

godkilller · 3 years

Text

@magical-girl-coral

So two questions - one, does Gin eventually use a prosthetic arm in the redemption au like Izuru? And two, where did the "Gin totally abused Izuru" story come from? Because I couldn't find any evidence of that.

out of character. I’ll start off by saying thanks for the message ! I always appreciate seeing new faces in my inbox, especially when they’re tossin’ me challenging or otherwise worldbuilding questions. That said, I don’t want anyone to get the idea that I mean to police what Izuru’s headcanon for their character... however, I have had several experiences, as well as my partner during her time writing Gin, in which headcanons / fanon interpretations included Gin being a r/ap/ist to them and other upsetting material was forced onto us.

Not only am I not comfortable with writing that material in general, I feel extremely more so when placed into that position, and I believe I would be understood with that approach. By mere roleplaying standards the whole ordeal can be ruled as godmodding, but there’s also a massive amount of pressure when writing a villain muse to be as detestable as possible so people’s hero muses can explore the coping, healing, and angst of being a victim. I’m happy to be villainous, Gin is not a protagonist regardless of the themes I explore with him, but I draw the line at depictions of sexual violence and other darker instances of abuse. I SHOULD NEVER FEEL EXPECTED TO WRITE MY OWN CHARACTER DOING THINGS I DO NOT WANT TO WRITE HIM DOING. I do not headcanon him as such, and I do not acknowledge other’s headcanons of such topics due to this extreme discomfort.

I’m not here to say that Gin was absolutely wonderful to Izuru ! Because no, he wasn’t. Their relationship was doomed to become toxic by the end of it due to the nature of its creation. That last day of them together in which Momo and Izuru fight beneath Aizen’s fake dead body, and then the following hours afterwards up until the three traitors leave to Hueco Mundo... they’re awful. Izuru is rightfully distraught. Aizen crafted himself and his two trusted subordinates the perfect lieutenants for them to control. He took Momo, known for her massive idolization of him, and Tousen took Hisagi, who would obey without question, and Gin took Izuru, a man who suffers great insecurities. Each one was destined to be manipulated, and manipulation is a form of abuse.

That aside, Izuru’s insecurities are present before he even knew Gin. Like it or not, the traitor did NOT create Izuru’s instability, his mental-illness coded breakdown, nor did he delight in Izuru’s suffering ( unless people want to tell me that Gin grinning indicates he was amused, when in actuality the whole point of Gin’s grin is to be unreadable, thus almost 99% of the time it’s implied FAKE, a mask, so like... is he amused, or are people just taking his smile at face value? ) Gin IS guilty of enabling Izuru’s dependency on him, his blind obedience and trust. GIN COULD HAVE LET IZURU DOWN IN PREPARATIONAL WAYS PRE-BETRAYAL, AND MAKE THIS FIERCE LOYALTY HIS LIEUTENANT HAD LESS CATASTROPHIC WHEN IT WAS FINALLY BROKEN.

If Izuru had been abused by Gin so regularly pre-betrayal, there would have inevitably been a clicking moment in his head going ‘ah, yes, I knew it, he was rotten all along!’ but no, Gin was canonly described as a great captain to the Third Division, and that’s what makes the betrayal to Izuru hurt him all the more; HE WASN’T, ACTUALLY, BAD. It takes having a good thing for the subsequent back-stabbing to ache. Gin went, within 24 hours, from being Izuru’s beloved captain to his enemy, and all in between he was asked to do things he felt, at later times, immense regret over doing. That’s the impact Gin had, and it doesn’t matter how good he was prior to that day / night. That’s the hurt I’d like to explore with the two characters, and the possible route towards healing that we may venture for if the mun is comfortable.

So yes, the fanon interpretation that Izuru was abused for years and years underneath Gin is one I feel is false, or at the very least largely misinterpreted. The events of the betrayal leading to Rukia’s execution highlight the worst Izuru went through in terms of his relationship with Gin. I’d love to one day delve into that wound, and find what these characters need to grow beyond that darker time. Gin certainly felt no pride in what he did, and his canon last words pertaining to Izuru ring true for myself too: I’m just glad he’s doing alright.

And to take the edge off, now I’ll reply to your FIRST question swbedhrfjmk. I think Gin’s not very open to ‘solutions’ or aid given to him post-Winter War. He, like Yamamoto, kind of accepts his injury as a punishment ( though, Yamamoto rejects healing / aid as a point of pride and stubbornness ) because Gin feels he doesn’t deserve the help. It’s also a rant I’ve posted before where disabled or hurt characters, especially in Bleach, are often slapped a bandaid on and fixed instantly because Tite seems to be allergic to lingering wounds and trauma and the idea that a disability should instantly be dealt with via magic breaks the illusion of there being ANY sort of consequence for ones actions. The concept of immediately healing back Gin’s arm turns me off, to be honest, because it erases that pain and that failure, as well as narratively gives any disabled person the middle finger.

Story-wise, the only character I believe capable to negate Aizen’s massive reiatsu imprint on Gin would need to work at it for days to get past its black hole-esque nature of not letting her heal the injury, and also... Orihime, unless written and developed otherwise, should not ever feel that she needs to heal someone who took part in holding her captive within Las Noches, a very traumatizing time for a young girl. GIN DOESN’T FEEL LIKE HE’S WORTH HER TIME, NOR DOES HE WANT TO ASK. He’s not even good at asking for help with Rangiku, so he sure as hell isn’t going to walk up to this poor kid and tell her to heal him.

I know Kukaku also has a prosthetic limb, and Izuru too down the line, so the option is probably more doable than Gin getting his arm back magically... but until he’s OFFERED help, and maybe even forcibly so, he’s hell-bent on rejecting it based on a self-sabotaging belief that he needs to accept this as punishment and move on all the same. Gin makes peace with the injury later down the line within Redemption Verse, and no longer sees the missing limb as a consequence... just a reminder to be better, to stay.

#[ out of character ] masquerade; hide your face #[ headcanon ] fresh snowfall; fading footprints mark his path #[ verse: redemption ] i am healing by mistake; rome is also built on ruins #tw rape mention #tw abuse mention

5 notes · View notes

mittensmorgul · 4 years

Note

i've been seeing speculation that michael was lying to castiel and dean, so if that's true, is it possible he is only pretending to care for adam too?

Hi there! You’re probably hoping for a short, direct answer here, but congratulations! You’ve won today’s “imma turn this into an essay about 9 other things that are all directly related to the thing you thought was a simple question” essay prompt contest!

I will give you a tl;dr right up front, though, in case you’re already rolling your eyes at me (sorry, I can’t help who I am as a person... but I do try to be helpful).

I think they made it pretty clear in the diner scene that Adam and Michael have a really interesting relationship. You spend a decade locked inside your own mind with a guy, and you either start getting along or you kill each other, you know? So no, I don’t think he’s pretending to care about Adam. I think Michael and Adam have-- as Adam told Dean-- come to an agreement. Rather than spiraling into hatred and mutual torture, they chose to understand one another (to the degree that a human is capable of understanding an archangel and vice versa). I can’t imagine sharing that sort of companionship with someone for a decade and NOT at least feeling some sort of care for the other.

I wrote something about this the other day, about what Michael’s choices showed us about his feelings for Adam, here:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/189648100025/why-didnt-michael-go-to-chuck-after-lilith-came

They’re freed from the cage after a decade, and Michael could’ve just... left, you know? Nothing’s tying him to Adam at this point. And he’s indulging Adam’s human needs for food and comfort, and Adam’s assumptions that they will continue to live together in some weird little curtain fic of a domestic scenario despite Michael being a freaking archangel who could pull the whole “chained to a comet” thing we’ve seen so many other angels pull and do whatever he wants... (including AU!Michael and what he did to Dean... the arrangement Adam and Michael have more closely resembles what Dean was trying to negotiate for himself with AU!Michael, which just makes it hurt so much more when Dean sees Adam and Michael’s arrangement).

That said, like so much of s15, do we really know what Michael’s motivations are now? I don’t feel comfortable saying for sure that Adam actually knows, either. The show has just reminded us vividly of the long con that was s4 with the odd return of Lilith as a narrative device to manipulate Sam and Dean (and now Michael). And the struggle against destiny that was s5. Michael was a major agent in BOTH of those seasons (and Adam was the unwitting “clammy scrap of bait” that Heaven used to unsuccessfully trap Dean in 5.18). We don’t know what Michael wants, because his entire purpose for being was foiled in 5.22, and he’s been living with the consequences of that ever since. But more importantly, I don’t think *Michael* knows what he wants anymore, in a world where his entire purpose was rendered moot.

Imagine living for BILLIONS of years knowing that someday you will enact a specific series of events to prove your love and devotion to God, with the belief that will win God’s favor and earn yourself an eternal reward, only to be foiled literally on the brink of success and then return to a world where God had never actually left at all and had just been using you as an actor for his own entertainment. Not only that, you weren’t even unique... just one of countless iterations of the same being across a vast number of universes, and that you hadn’t actually been cast in the starring role at all, but had merely been a bit player in one act of the Grand Performance?

Can he really accept that his entire existence had been a lie? As God’s first and favorite creation, does he even trust what Cas has shown him, or would he doubt and go directly to Chuck to confront him about the truth?

I’ve been meaning to compile a list of all the scenes and references in the montage Cas showed to Michael, but that will take some doing. :’D

I think my main question right now is whether Michael has already confronted Chuck via prayer, or whether he set the whole “Leviathan blossom hunt” up as a means to earn his freedom from Dean and Cas while not tipping his hand about his doubts yet. The minor earthquake he set off... was that due to his frustration at accepting what Cas showed him as the truth, or his frustration at not being able to communicate with Chuck (Enochian handcuffs, you know? block powers like that), or his frustration at having questioned Chuck directly via prayer or some other magical means and his renewed belief that he was being lied to or manipulated by TFW? We truly do not know yet.

That’s the beauty of s15. That’s the main theme of s15, actually-- what is REAL, and what’s Chuck’s story?

I think the thing that’s bothered me the most about this season so far is the assumption that we know anything plot-related is absolute fact and exactly what it appears to be on the surface. Because the entire season is built on the revelation that we literally know nothing about what is real and what is performance and what is manipulation.

Remember Ruby? How many of us at least cautiously believed her back in s3 and s4, before we began to be shown reasons to doubt her? And all along, Ruby had been an agent of Lilith, the only one who’d known the whole plan from the start. Which is ironic when you compare it with Lilith’s role in s15... with the whole “I can’t fail him.” They’re all layers of plot devices like manipulative little nesting dolls, and I’m incredibly wary of trusting anything in a world where Chuck can send innocent souls to Hell on a whim (Eileen, Kevin....) for plot reasons.

Chuck long ago stopped interacting with his creation by his own rules, you know? In contrast to Billie and her Rules, which she’ll bend on occasion but never outright violate. Chuck’s story went so far off the rails after 5.22 that the new “rules” of his plot often directly contradicted the old rules-- especially after 11.23, when he reunited with Amara. I don’t think he ever accounted for that, and it shows in his ongoing narrative after their reunification.

Chuck’s story didn’t change. He still kept trying to write to the same themes, to the same narrative end-- one sibling sacrificing the other for the good of creation, because Sam and Dean had as yet refused to let that ending stick, you know? Over and over, TFW has proven that narrative can’t stand, right up to Dean talking Chuck and Amara through exactly WHY it couldn’t stand. Love.

Chuck refuses to change-- as Becky told him, as Amara told him, as EVERYONE is telling him. He doesn’t love his creation, he wants it to be a reflection of his own issues, as some sort of moral justification of his essential “rightness.” He wants to feel “big.” He’s been unmasked, and knows he can’t carry on the charade of Benevolent and Caring Creator anymore. His characters have confronted him, FINALLY, as the Actual Author, and not the proxy/puppet that “Chuck the Prophet” had been back in 4.18.

But it’s been, so far in s15, impossible to know at a glance what elements of creation are nothing more than Chuck’s sock puppets (though Lilith lampshaded herself as a sock puppet almost immediately, within the span of a single episode). What are Chuck’s plot contrivances? What are his “traps?”

Was the hunter Sue-- Eileen’s friend that she trusted without hesitation in 15.08 and who would lure her and Sam to a hunt, only to unmask herself as Chuck-- the only sock puppet in that scene? Or is this like 4.18, where there are layers upon layers of sock puppets acting out one of Chuck’s tests? Where it appeared that Zachariah had manipulated Chuck’s “visions” to control the narrative, but later revelations would prove it was all Chuck’s bigger game? Even by 4.22 we’d see Zachariah for the puppet he was, even if he wouldn’t be defeated until 5.18.

But the context the show has now given us with Chuck’s manipulation of the entire story opens the possibility that-- even as we’ve seen through the chaotic spiral of his own twisted narrative-- he’s still exerting far more control over the story than we can see yet.

ISN’T IT THRILLING?!

#spn 15.08 #spn s15 spoilers #spn 4.18 #spn 4.22 #spn 5.18 #chuck's process #that's what free will is #Anonymous

124 notes · View notes