#actually antisocial

[autopsyfreak]

i don’t see the point in apologising, it seems pointless and hypocritical.

the only thing that would warrant an apology is an action that hurt/negatively affected someone, which i either didn’t mean to do or i did mean to do.

if i meant to do it then an apology would just be lying. if i was intending on hurting you and then apologised for the pain i caused, i wouldn’t actually be sorry because i got the outcome i wanted.

but at the same time if i didn’t mean to do it then why should i apologise? accidents happen so really there’s no reason to apologise, even if i have caused you accidental hurt.

apologies just have no value.

#actually aspd #actually npd #aspd #npd #clusterb #actually mentally ill #actually bpd #cluster b #actuallyaspd #actuallynpd #mental illness #actuallybpd #actually schizophrenic #actually borderline #actually autistic #actually narcissistic #actually antisocial #actually cluster b #cluster b personality disorder #narcissistic personality disorder #antisocial personality disorder #borderline personality disorder #autism #autistic #actually cptsd #neurodivergent #narc abuse isnt real #narc abuse isn't real #aspd safe #npd safe

[aspd-culture]

Welcome back. You’re very informative.

I’m very confused about how numerous people, from you, to other antisocial people speaking from their experiences (some of which I learned are actually friends) to prosocial researchers of ASPD say that antisocial people see relationships as transactional. It’s not weird that you guys see it that way, it’s more like “and prosocials… don’t???” Because I’m certain I’m prosocial. I’m neurodivergent, sure, but no signs of ASPD. So, how do most prosocial people typically view relationships if they’re not transactional?

So I find prosocials and pwASPD both tend to think “but doesn’t everybody” when we hear this - it’s a super undescriptive term - but we’re thinking different things define something as transactional. We also see the reason for that transaction to be different.

From a prosocial generally, they’ll mean “I only want to be around people that ‘don’t drain my energy’, that don’t just take take take, that we mutually enjoy the friendship/relationship and want to be around each other”. That’s kinda their definition of getting something out of it, and they want everyone to get something out of it. If they’re draining you, they want you to be free of it so you can be happy, and the transactions involved can be purely emotional/vibes. The reason they feel this way is a desire for positive and enjoyable social connection; the consequence for an uneven/bad/missing transaction is discomfort and wasting their time in negative experiences and generally feeling bad in association with that person.

PwASPD see those transactions very very literally. There’s no vibes nor emotions in the transactions, those are either a reaction to the transaction or a bonus. We mean that we are getting something tangible or practical out of it. Rides, help with things we can’t or don’t want to do alone, sex, maybe even the social relief from the annoyance of “why don’t you ever talk to anyone?” coming from all sides. We also don’t always care if it’s even on the other person’s end. If they’re ok driving me everywhere/if they do it and don’t say or show they’re uncomfortable, then I will assume they are fine with that piece of the transaction. If I’m taking more than I’m giving and they seem chill with that then I’ll accept it. However, I won’t give them *nothing* and that’s because of our reason for transactions - it’s dangerous otherwise. First off, I have shit I need I can’t get myself as much as it sucks, so I need to be around people. But if we need something from them, what we learned in our childhoods is that we don’t get that for free. There’s always something over your head. A lot of pwASPD had friends or caregivers that would hold favors or even *basic, legally-mandated caregiving* over our heads as though we didn’t deserve it. Often our value was determined as a child by what we provided, and since children can’t provide much, we were worthless and not deserving of good treatment.

This is part of the reason (TW non-descriptive CSA mention, skip to the next paragraph if you want) that people thought ASPD was directly correlated with CSA for a long time - many cases of long term CSA come from either “I’ll give you x/do x for you if you help me with this” or worse, doing something first then saying “but I gave you X!/did X for you! I wouldn’t have if I knew you’d act like this”, often call us selfish if we tried to say no and maybe get aggressive or forceful after, and that is an easy lead-in to our view of interactions.

So a lot of us see it that if we want to be safe/know we can continue to get what we need, we HAVE to be giving them something. If you claim you like being around me “just to be around me” or worse that you’re willing to do something for me “just because I want to”, that’s not safe. You want something from me and I’ll give it to you - just tell me what it is. If you’re not telling me, that means it’s not good or you’re just gonna decide later that I’m selfish. You might hurt me to get what you want and justify it with this. Take something from my side so we’re even, because even means safe. Even means I get access to what I need and you get access to what you need - so now we’re both using this relationship/friendship/etc for something and you wouldn’t wanna mess that up by putting me in danger any more than I’d want to mess it up by putting you in danger.

Of course, not every prosocial sees it the first way and not every pwASPD had those experiences and/or sees it that way. But that’s what I’ve found to be common. If you see “they make me happy” as what your or their end of the transaction is, it’s definitely a prosocial response, maybe with the exception of thinking of it as “getting their brain to dopamine/oxytocin” vs caring how they’re actually feeling. If not, if you need it to be practical, that’s definitely transactional.

It’s important to note this is personal relationships with no practical consequences to ending the relationship - most people see relationships (platonic) with coworkers or managers as transactional and that’s a way I usually explain it to prosocials (“do you deal with your boss bc you like them or bc they sign your check - and would your boss keep you hired if you didn’t do your job because you make them happy just by being there?”). But with a romantic or sexual partner, a friend, etc. this is not a typical view of relationships.

That said - you can *absolutely* not have ASPD and have transactional view of relationships. It’s not a 1:1 thing there; not everyone with ASPD has it and not every prosocial doesn’t. It’s just a really common piece of the puzzle that is this personality disorder.

Edit: ack I’m so sorry I forgot to add the csa tw tags they’re there now.

Plain text below the cut:

So I find prosocials and pwASPD both tend to think “but doesn’t everybody” when we hear this - it’s a super undescriptive term - but we’re thinking different things define something as transactional. We also see the reason for that transaction to be different.

From a prosocial generally, they’ll mean “I only want to be around people that ‘don’t drain my energy’, that don’t just take take take, that we mutually enjoy the friendship/relationship and want to be around each other”. That’s kinda their definition of getting something out of it, and they want everyone to get something out of it. If they’re draining you, they want you to be free of it so you can be happy, and the transactions involved can be purely emotional/vibes. The reason they feel this way is a desire for positive and enjoyable social connection; the consequence for an uneven/bad/missing transaction is discomfort and wasting their time in negative experiences and generally feeling bad in association with that person.

PwASPD see those transactions very very literally. There’s no vibes nor emotions in the transactions, those are either a reaction to the transaction or a bonus. We mean that we are getting something tangible or practical out of it. Rides, help with things we can’t or don’t want to do alone, sex, maybe even the social relief from the annoyance of “why don’t you ever talk to anyone?” coming from all sides. We also don’t always care if it’s even on the other person’s end. If they’re ok driving me everywhere/if they do it and don’t say or show they’re uncomfortable, then I will assume they are fine with that piece of the transaction. If I’m taking more than I’m giving and they seem chill with that then I’ll accept it. However, I won’t give them *nothing* and that’s because of our reason for transactions - it’s dangerous otherwise. First off, I have shit I need I can’t get myself as much as it sucks, so I need to be around people. But if we need something from them, what we learned in our childhoods is that we don’t get that for free. There’s always something over your head. A lot of pwASPD had friends or caregivers that would hold favors or even *basic, legally-mandated caregiving* over our heads as though we didn’t deserve it. Often our value was determined as a child by what we provided, and since children can’t provide much, we were worthless and not deserving of good treatment.

This is part of the reason (TW non-descriptive CSA mention, skip to the next paragraph if you want) that people thought ASPD was directly correlated with CSA for a long time - many cases of long term CSA come from either “I’ll give you x/do x for you if you help me with this” or worse, doing something first then saying “but I gave you X!/did X for you! I wouldn’t have if I knew you’d act like this”, often call us selfish if we tried to say no and maybe get aggressive or forceful after, and that is an easy lead-in to our view of interactions.

So a lot of us see it that if we want to be safe/know we can continue to get what we need, we HAVE to be giving them something. If you claim you like being around me “just to be around me” or worse that you’re willing to do something for me “just because I want to”, that’s not safe. You want something from me and I’ll give it to you - just tell me what it is. If you’re not telling me, that means it’s not good or you’re just gonna decide later that I’m selfish. You might hurt me to get what you want and justify it with this. Take something from my side so we’re even, because even means safe. Even means I get access to what I need and you get access to what you need - so now we’re both using this relationship/friendship/etc for something and you wouldn’t wanna mess that up by putting me in danger any more than I’d want to mess it up by putting you in danger.

Of course, not every prosocial sees it the first way and not every pwASPD had those experiences and/or sees it that way. But that’s what I’ve found to be common. If you see “they make me happy” as what your or their end of the transaction is, it’s definitely a prosocial response, maybe with the exception of thinking of it as “getting their brain to dopamine/oxytocin” vs caring how they’re actually feeling. If not, if you need it to be practical, that’s definitely transactional.

It’s important to note this is personal relationships with no practical consequences to ending the relationship - most people see relationships (platonic) with coworkers or managers as transactional and that’s a way I usually explain it to prosocials (“do you deal with your boss bc you like them or bc they sign your check - and would your boss keep you hired if you didn’t do your job because you make them happy just by being there?”). But with a romantic or sexual partner, a friend, etc. this is not a typical view of relationships.

That said - you can *absolutely* not have ASPD and have transactional view of relationships. It’s not a 1:1 thing there; not everyone with ASPD has it and not every prosocial doesn’t. It’s just a really common piece of the puzzle that is this personality disorder.

Edit: ack I’m so sorry I forgot to add the csa tw tags they’re there now.

#tw mentions of sex #tw csa #tw csa mention #tw abuse mention #tw sa #tw sa mention #tw child abuse mention #tw child abuse #aspd-culture-is #aspd culture is #aspd culture #actually aspd #aspd #aspd awareness #actually antisocial #antisocial personality disorder #aspd traits #anons welcome

[worms-in-my-brain]

Just a reminder that ableism against personality disorders, especially cluster b personality disorder, is alive and well.

Not having empathy doesn’t make someone evil. It doesn’t make them an abuser. In fact, people without empathy are better in certain vital positions. We’re better at being first responders, 911 operators, and other tasks that would overwhelm empaths. We work better in critical situations than empaths do.

Thinking that any disorder makes someone evil is ableist. And when you take into account the sexist bias in diagnosing women with BPD and the racist and classist bias in diagnosing POC and prison inmates with ASPD and NPD? It’s not only ableist, it’s all kinds of -ists. Plus, it’s really rich for someone who claims that empathy is what makes someone good to have so little empathy for people with disorders that are literally trauma-based.

So yeah if you see someone being a dick to people with PDs? Say something. Because they’re definitely not going to listen to us.

#neurodivergent #cluster b #cluster b safe #personality disorders #personally disorder #ableism #ASPD #actually aspd #actually antisocial #npd #bpd #low empathy #no empathy

[moriphile]

People really need to learn that feeling empathy doesn't make you an inherently "good" person. It's just like any other cognitive process. Feeling happy doesn't make you an inherently "good" person. Feeling sad doesn't make you an inherently "good" person. Feeling angry doesn't make you an inherently "good" person. Hell, having too much empathy can be harmful for people. I know hyperempaths that hate it.

A feeling isn't good or bad. It's a feeling. It's the most morally neutral thing that can possibly exist.

Empathy is morally neutral. It is not good. It is not bad. Stop using it as such.

- Sincerely, the low empathy sociopathic narc that's probably a better person than the last "empath" that read this.

#low empathy #no empathy #antisocial personality disorder #actually antisocial #aspd #actually aspd #npd #actually npd #narcissistic personality disorder #actually narcissistic #npd safe #aspd safe #cluster b safe #m.beingpissyagain

[will-pilled]

It gets so... tiring hearing people speak about those of us with cluster B disorders like we're a completely different species who is incapable of reading and hearing the things they say. They speak like we're not even here.

Do they even feel love?

How to spot them.

They're so hard to manage.

I am a person. I am right here. I can hear you. You can just ask us instead of speaking like you're studying aliens. You can just... speak to us. You realize we're the same species right? Like, we have feelings, right?

You realize we're prisoners of our own mind, right? That we don't choose to suffer like this? We don't choose to need extra support? You know that, right?

You can just.. speak to us like people.. because it gets so tiring, and people can only withstand being treated like another species for so long before they get mad.

I'm just.. tired.

#Personal #Cluster B #Personality disorders #Bpd #NPD #Aspd #antisocial personality disorder #borderline personality disorder #narcissistic personality disorder #actually narcissistic #actually borderline #actually antisocial #Actually NPD #Actually BPD #Actually aspd #Actually cluster B #Cluster B safe #cluster b personality disorder #Ableism #Disorders #Mental health #narcissism #Looking back most of the splits I've had wouldn't have even happened if I had just been treated with kindness from the beginning #People are literally mad that we don't take shit from people like normal people do #Like why are you mad that your partner with a PD is finally snapping after you're mean to them?

[psychopathic-safe-space]

Shoutout to people who are struggling or have struggled with homicidal thoughts and/or urges. It’s hard. And there are very few people it feels safe to talk to.

#aspd #cluster b #actually cluster b #actually aspd #aspd safe #actually antisocial #actually low empathy #cluster b safe

[flashy-mf]

So just to be clear, I get irritated and lonely when isolated, feel irritated and lonely around others, rely on positive feedback for my self esteem but also reject everything that makes relationships function positively, require mountains of independence but get mad when people aren’t helping me, and can’t handle being unable to control everything despite having deep fantasies about creating out of control situations for a dose of satisfaction??? okaay well then,,, i don’t know what to tell me

#flashy ✨ thoughts #cluster b #actually cluster b #actually npd #npd #actually narcissistic #narcissistic personality disorder #aspd #actually aspd #actually antisocial #antisocial personality disorder #hpd #honestly hpd #honestly histrionic #histrionic personality disorder #cluster b safe

[necroticcadaver]

I love talking about myself.

You ask me questions about myself? I could spend literal hours happily talking about me.

#actually mentally ill #actually osdd #did osdd #mental illness #actually aspd #actually npd #npd #actuallynpd #narcissistic personality disorder #actually narcissistic #actually antisocial #narc abuse isn’t real #i am my own favourite topic #npd safe #npd culture is #npd things #cluster b #clusterb #cluster b personality disorder #npd posting #myself #mental health #i love talking about myself #talking about myself

[autopsyfreak]

my anhedonia is eating me alive so i’m making these mental illness memes to cope

#actually aspd #actually npd #aspd #npd #clusterb #actually mentally ill #actually bpd #actuallyaspd #actuallynpd #cluster b #bpd #actuallybpd #actually schizophrenic #actually delusional #actually borderline #actually obsessive #actually autistic #actually antisocial #actually narcissistic #schizophrenia #schizospec #psychotic spectrum #did #osdd #ocd #actually pocd #mental illness #cluster b personality disorder #cluster b memes #npd meme

[aspd-culture]

Hi, a bit of a weird question, but I noticed that a lot of people I follow, who have aspd have a strong connection (not really sure how to explain it) to wolfs/dogs and canines in general, and I just wanted to ask whether this is a general thing or is it just my circle lol

Yeah I mean that tracks. My abuser was super into wolves, so I don’t relate to those *anymore*, but I previously identified as a wolf and therian and still follow dog therian tags as a shape-shifting alter including dogs.

I think it’s sort of like how autistic people sometimes like cats: cats behave in a way that makes a lot of sense to autistic people and they can relate to.

The same kinda goes with dogs/wolves and pwASPD. Some breeds of dogs and all wolves are seen as aggressive, dangerous, uncontrollable, and are avoided and some people even think should not be bred or be put down - all for things that have nothing to do with the animal themselves and in fact are about how they were treated. If you mistreat a dog through its formative years, you’ll get a very *defensive* (not aggressive idc what people say) dog. They’ll be quick to attack and maybe not warn first the way other dogs will because they learned that’s what keeps them safe - me fuckin too dude - and they risk getting literally put down in a legal and community supported way for that behavior they never asked to be taught.

And this is just a personal thing, but I kind of romanticize the idea of being a dog - because there’s a large community of people who understand that it’s not the dog’s fault and will fight for them to be accepted and understood; who’ll meet that dog where they’re at and work with them with complete understanding and forgiveness for anything the dog does wrong. People who will *get bitten* and apologize for scaring the dog. And what really makes me envy dogs is that dogs are able to turn it around no matter how old they are - even senior dogs who were extremely reactive can usually be turned around and act like a normal dog or even be particularly caring and docile because dogs can be taught at any age that they are safe now and they don’t need to behave that way anymore. I wish my brain was capable of learning that and undoing all the neurological damage people did to me, and I wish people would look at me and see and understand the stress and anxiety in my eyes when I act out because I felt unsafe.

So uh yeah, anyways, I’d say it’s not uncommon.

Plain text below the cut:

Yeah I mean that tracks. My abuser was super into wolves, so I don’t relate to those *anymore*, but I previously identified as a wolf and therian and still follow dog therian tags as a shape-shifting alter including dogs.

I think it’s sort of like how autistic people sometimes like cats: cats behave in a way that makes a lot of sense to autistic people and they can relate to.

The same kinda goes with dogs/wolves and pwASPD. Some breeds of dogs and all wolves are seen as aggressive, dangerous, uncontrollable, and are avoided and some people even think should not be bred or be put down - all for things that have nothing to do with the animal themselves and in fact are about how they were treated. If you mistreat a dog through its formative years, you’ll get a very *defensive* (not aggressive idc what people say) dog. They’ll be quick to attack and maybe not warn first the way other dogs will because they learned that’s what keeps them safe - me fuckin too dude - and they risk getting literally put down in a legal and community supported way for that behavior they never asked to be taught.

And this is just a personal thing, but I kind of romanticize the idea of being a dog - because there’s a large community of people who understand that it’s not the dog’s fault and will fight for them to be accepted and understood; who’ll meet that dog where they’re at and work with them with complete understanding and forgiveness for anything the dog does wrong. People who will *get bitten* and apologize for scaring the dog. And what really makes me envy dogs is that dogs are able to turn it around no matter how old they are - even senior dogs who were extremely reactive can usually be turned around and act like a normal dog or even be particularly caring and docile because dogs can be taught at any age that they are safe now and they don’t need to behave that way anymore. I wish my brain was capable of learning that and undoing all the neurological damage people did to me, and I wish people would look at me and see and understand the stress and anxiety in my eyes when I act out because I felt unsafe.

So uh yeah, anyways, I’d say it’s not uncommon.

#a rare unmasked aspd culture #aspd-culture-is #aspd culture is #aspd culture #actually aspd #aspd #aspd awareness #actually antisocial #antisocial personality disorder #aspd traits #anons welcome

[npdvelvette]

aroacespec cluster b moment of not being able to tell if you are actually crushing on someone or if you’re just fixated on them bc they actually meet your ridiculous standards and/or give you attention

#actually npd #npd #actually bpd #cluster b #bpd problems #actually histrionic #hpd culture is #actually antisocial #aspd #bpd #aroace #actually narcissistic #actually cluster b

[worms-in-my-brain]

Shoutout to people with bad work histories due to disability.

People who can’t stay at one job.

People who can’t get a job or work.

People who can only work part-time or need a lot of sick days.

Our value is not determined by our ability to work.

#actually disabled #disability #disabled #mobility impaired #chronic pain #autism #actually autistic #actually adhd #actually antisocial #actually dissociative

[in-time-misplaced]

I wish people could understand that feeling no remorse and empathy isn't a choice. It's not something I can turn off and on. It's not something that will change if you're close to me. It's just how I am. The way that I don't understand your pain or feel bad is not personal. Not being able to bring myself to care about a lot of things doesn't mean I think you don't deserve care. It's not me trying to attack you or make you feel bad. It's just how I am.

#low empathy #no empathy #aspd #aspd safe #actually aspd #actually antisocial #actually cluster b #cluster b #cluster b safe

[sleepyherbs]

ASPD Resource Dump

feel free to reblog! here are some resources related to ASPD that i've collected since i've being diagnosed (roughly 5 years).

Sympathetic Articles

An Autistic Sociopath's Story, Cassy, through Special Books by Special Kids (video. an autistic pwASPD talks about her life and experiences with both.)

An Interview with a Sociopath, Dyshae, through Special Books by Special Kids (video. a pwASPD and bipolar disorder talks about his life and experiences with both.)

Life With Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD), Andrew, through mind.org.uk (a pwASPD's account of their life and experiences with it.)

The Hidden Suffering of the Psychopath, William H. J. Martens, MD, PhD (a sympathetic view of pwASPD, and some information on the neurobiology of ASPD.)

Factors for Development

Antisocial personality disorder in abused and neglected children grown up., B. K. Luntz, C. S. Widom (from 1994. provides evidence supporting the fact that child abuse/neglect is a predictor of antisocial behavior.)

Antisocial Personality Disorder with Childhood- vs Adolescence-Onset Conduct Disorder, Risë B. Goldstein et al. (from 2006. discusses how symptoms vary in pwASPD whose conduct disorder began in childhood vs in adolescence.)

Predictors of antisocial personality: Continuities from childhood to adult life, Emily Simonoff et al. (from 2018. draws connections between childhood behaviors, diagnoses, etc., and antisocial behavior in adulthood.)

Risk Factors in Childhood That Lead to the Development of Conduct Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder, Stacey E. Holmes, James R. Slaughter, Javad Kashani (from 2001. covers multiple categories that may lead to development of CD and/or ASPD, including environment, genetics, and individual differences.)

Miscellaneous Articles

Antisocial Personality Disorder: Neurophysiological Mechanisms and Distinct Subtypes, Sean J. McKinley (from 2018. proposes three diagnostic subtypes for ASPD: primarily detached, primarily disinhibited, and combined.)

Executive function, attention, and memory deficits in antisocial personality disorder and psychopathy, Michael Baliousis et al. (from 2019. discusses some neurobiology of ASPD, and how it effects executive function, attention, and memory.)

Self-mutilation in antisocial personality disorder, M. Virkkunen (from 1976. reports on self-injury behaviors in pwASPD, and details their motivations.)

#actually antisocial #actually aspd #cluster b #aspd tag #tea time !

[flashy-mf]

I’m actually pretty chill if you know me. I mean, sure I have some entitlement issues… a tendency towards irritability.. maybe a history of aggression and loss of impulse control… … I mean— I’m still very chill most of the time. So not an angry control freak. As long as you’re nice to me and stay out of my way and don’t do anything that bothers me, I have no problems with anyone.

Psychologist: 📝✍️👩‍💻 I see…

#flashy ✨ thoughts #npd #actually npd #actually narcissistic #narcissistic personality disorder #npd safe #aspd #actually aspd #actually antisocial #antisocial personality disorder #aspd safe #cluster b #actually cluster b #cluster b safe