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rollercoasterwords · 1 year

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hey rae, i’m experiencing a bit of a moral dilemma (ish) bc like… i’ve always more or less had this view that its wrong on some level to like “police” people on the kind of media they are creating, even mainstream tbh and now… well… let’s just say a little bee flew in rather aggressively into my eardrums and it won’t stop buzzing about the moral implications and suddenly the pretty stable ground that i was standing on is slowing crumbling beneath my feet but like… that’s okay??? i’m accepting the fall bc i’m actually always thrilled to free fall. that is to say, i love the way things around me can make me question my own ideas of what i believe to be true sometimes like i love love love it. i love looking at smth ekth a new lens and more information and then yk, rebuilding thag ground with more stable material. anyways, sry i’m rambling, but you see, everything this bee was buzzing abt started to increasingly make more sense and like, i started to rly think about it in the way of like… evaluating the consequences right? like if a specific media trope has very real contributions to a stigma abt a certain group and manifests in the society in multiple ways, then rly, why can’t i condemn it? bc the way i used to look at it was like “well yes, the media is harmful, but like, i also don’t think we have the right to dictate other people’s liberties when it come to art”. but now… especially considering that this “art” is mainstream and like reaches millions of people, why tf not? bc when you rly put it on the scale, what has more weight, ppl being mad/annoyed that engaging with this is “bad” and they shouldn’t/ being limited in creating it or ppl suffering the real life implications of this. and to make myself a little clearer, the specific thing thag kinda made me realize this more was how media a lot of the times portrays certain mental illness in an overly negative and harmful way, and how in thrn, society discriminates against those individuals in part bc of the skewed perception thag media has portrayed about them. and i feel like this kinda of made me like… think more about this view that i used to defend strongly, and kinda of go, wait, hold up… and i’m still a little like… conflicted bc as much as like i say this, i don’t think there are any viable means of like combatting this issue bc at the end of the day, what creators for mainstream media want is money and these things get them money and so it’s never rly gonna stop, and i still am a little iffy on the idea thag it’s essentially like… an objective moral no no, but like i can see the other side more clearly and it’s just… man it’s so frustrating in a way. and like as much as some ppl may engage with their media critically and liek recognize these stereotypes and shit, a majority of ppl don’t and it’s so frustrating to see itttt. but yeah, idk im still like… gathering materials before fully building this floor, but like, what are your thoughts on this if any? (i’m literally going to everyone with this i an truly a menace, i need to talkkkk abt it like the way this brings me so much joy) (unfortunately i don’t have many ppl in my life that care or are willing to talk to me abt these things) (enter: rae)

hello!! interesting questions!! love that u are embracing the freefall of having a core belief challenged + opening urself to new ways of thinking rather than growing defensive + closing urself off!!

so, what i wanna start off by saying here is this: there is a very broad middle ground between "this art is bad and shouldn't exist/shouldn't be interacted with at all" versus "everyone should just create whatever they want with disregard for the consequences."

because different forms of art are going to be doing different things, reaching different audiences, and sending different messages. and there are plenty of ways that art/literature/media/etc can be harmful. for example, this recent open letter to the new york times is a great example of a critique on the way in which the nytimes' coverage of trans "issues" causes real-life harm to trans people. in this sort of instance, it's not okay for the nytimes to just continue writing as they have, however they want, because they have certain journalistic responsibilites which include not promoting/perpetuating harm against marginalized groups (not that they have an especially great track record in that regard, but i digress). part of critically evaluating media is evaluating whether that media has harmful real-life implications, and, if it does, figuring out whether/how to engage with that media in a way that does not perpetuate that harm.

so like--with the example you're talking about, portrayals of mental illness that contribute to stigma. part of evaluating those portrayals is going to start with asking what kind of media you're looking at, who it's reaching, and what it's trying to do. for example--a movie made by a large hollywood studio that's profiting off a stigmatizing portrayal of mental illness, reaching a broad audience, and contributing to widespread misconceptions is tangibly harmful, and it makes sense to vocally critique that portrayal or perhaps even encourage people not to engage with the movie at all, as it is profiting off something harmful. additionally, hollywood movies are invested in perpetuating a capitalist system such that they will often have an underlying goal of spreading messages/ideas that support that capitalist system, so there is much more to be wary of there in the intent of the media.

a fanfiction on the internet written by an individual that contains a stigmatizing portrayal of mental illness is something that is not accruing profit, not reaching a broad audience, and not harmful in the same way. an individual writing fanfiction on the internet is also not invested in perpetuating broader systems of capitalistic power in the same way a hollywood movie studio is, so the intent of their art is likely different. a better route here is probably to reach out to the individual, who probably wrote this portrayal out of ignorance and would most likely be open to educating themself and avoiding such portrayals in the future. this is a better response than trying to "cancel" the person completely, because it works to build community and has a much more direct impact in breaking the stigma around mental illness by educating an individual who previously internalized those stigmatized views.

when you're trying to critically evaluate a piece of media that contains something you view as potentially harmful, here are some important questions to ask:

who is making this? why are they making it? what is the stated goal of the creator(s) in creating this specific piece of media? are there any other goals that the creator is leaving unsaid?

who is the intended audience of this media? how large is that audience? in what ways is this media catered to appeal to that audience? what responsibilities does the creator hold towards that audience? will the audience response be monolithic, or is there room for varied impact amongst members of the same audience?

is this media a lecture or a conversation? is this media presenting a moral truth that i am expected to accept? or is it presenting moral questions and encouraging me to draw my own conclusions?

what role does profit play in the creation + distribution of this media? what systems of power is this media invested in upholding, if any? what institutions is this media invested in upholding, if any?

these are all questions which, depending on the answers, are going to change your evaluation on the media. this post kind of sums up what i mean, and i talk more here about when art becomes truly harmful. but also, i want to emphasize--engaging with media critically and coming to the conclusion that something is harmful is not the same thing as policing media, at least in my opinion. policing implies reinforcing set rules for how someone can or cannot create/engage with media, which doesn't allow for the necessary flexibility needed for actual critical thought. i think it's also important to note that policing typically says "if this media is Bad, you must destroy it/ignore it completely." but critically engaging with media means acknowledging harmful media when it exists, and analyzing why it exists + what it's trying to do. it also means acknowledging that not all media is going to fit cleanly into the harmful/harmless dichotomy. sometimes media will contain harmful stereotypes or stigmatizing portrayals in one sense, and really important representation or progressive ideas in another sense. other times, a portrayal that feels stigmatizing to one person will feel like representation to another. part of engaging critically with media means evaluating what it's doing as a whole and accounting for both the good and the bad. at the end of the day, we can't solve problems by refusing to engage with them at all, y'know?

#ask #ranting and raving

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lucysweatslove · 7 months

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Incoming med-Ed rant:

Okay to preface, I generally like my classmates. I think we are all trying and I know that racism is really hard to combat and some of the more “casual” or implicit biases are trickier to even see in yourself. The student I’ll be calling out is usually a very kind and supportive person to all races and I think she legitimately didn’t realize this was kinda racist.

My class does well on exams compared to other cohorts. We are usually the top of all 6 campuses and about 4-5% higher than the school-wide average. This only comes out (typically) to 2 questions more than the average. This isn’t great discriminatory power- but it’s a trend.

I’m all for celebrating success, but today it got to the point where it felt more like pushing down the other cohorts/campuses rather than recognizing the factors that help us succeed. One thing I feel strongly: my success ideally should never come at the expense of another’s. There are times where success is based on comparison, but I want to see us ALL reach goals and do our best and learn etc etc. It is one reason I hate applications (eg the process of applying) so much- I don’t see myself as any more (OR LESS) worthy than anybody else.

Anyway my class was talking about how well we do in comparison and why other cohorts don’t match us? And so I reminded them of two things: one, my cohort studies a lot and it’s p/f so other cohorts may have different priorities, and two, we have ESL students. I know one in in a large city campus, pretty sure another is in another smaller campus, but I don’t know them all nor do I expect to. I just know they’re there.

Anyway after I mentioned ESL students, somebody then said “maybe in the larger campuses but not like, [smaller campuses].”

So ofc I said no, actually, I think there is an ESL student in [smaller campus].

Here is why I’m so annoyed by this: the implication when you don’t know the other campuses is that a smaller more rural campus couldn’t have an ESL student. 10% of the population in the area this campus serves is Spanish-speaking, idk what percent of that is Spanish primary but it’s a good amount that speaks Spanish. It just seems a little racist to assume that these people wouldn’t be going to our med school at all.

I get not knowing and expecting, given demographics, that it’s more likely to have ESL students in the “big city” cohorts. But don’t assume. “Do you know if there are ESL students in the smaller cohorts?” Is a more appropriate way of asking. Because it an ask, not an assumption. I joke that my assumptions are “usually correct,” but that’s because I DONT MAKE THEM. Statistics may tell us who is more or less likely to have a given characteristic, but it doesn’t tell us anything definitive about any single person or even sample. You can make a hypothesis, but the key to a hypothesis is that you stay entirely open to other ideas if the evidence fits.

Honestly, it’s more than just the language assumption made here, too. It’s the association of the marginally higher test scores with intrinsic factors and this kinda refusal to acknowledge that it doesn’t make us somehow “better.” The point of p/f is to give us room to make mistakes and use mistakes as learning tools, reduce the stress of comparison, reduce the stress of medical school in general… and to remind us that’s it’s okay to not be perfect right now. But my cohort‘s success so far- which I love for them in principle- seems to be inflating their ego.

I’d also like to say: I like that we are thinking about WHY we do better, and I think that even if it’s a marginal “better,” it’s a good idea for faculty who design curriculum to ask, is there a reason for this? Because if there is and it’s actionable, we could implement it on other campuses. Eg, if the adjusted slides our block lead makes really are more effective, then the entire school should get them. If we consistently, even if subtly, outperform with certain subjects, maybe our lecturer who gives those talks could record their lecture and that could be the basis for others, or the main points and pedagogy could help us teach our faculty to better teach. If it’s just something like we study more, meh, that’s also doesn’t matter. But I HIGHLY doubt our class is just blanketly like, more intelligent. 🙃

#lucy goes to med school #rant

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booasaur · 2 years

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random ask which isn't even an ask but... i've just finished kevin can f himself s1 and there was something bothering me and i just had to talk about it with someone who has watched the show. anyways

first of all, i love allison/patty, their relationship is deliciously developed and i'm positive they are going to be endgame (i have to believe that bc otherwise it would be a freaking queerbaiting and we can't have that)

now talking about patty/tammy. for hours i've had a strange feeling about them but was having a hard time putting that into words. at first i immediately liked them as a couple for no reason (ok, i tend to like side couples even when i know they are not gonna make it to the end, maybe i like the drama, sue me). then tammy's attitude started to slightly bother me, like the way she was kinda pushy (trying to teach patty how to like vodka?) and straightforward idk. and i was like "great, now the fandom is going to hate her and nobody is shipping them and there will be 0 fanfiction about them". then i realized, that's not why people don't like her/the ship. the fans weren't going to like it no matter how, the show just gave them an excuse. tammy was destined to be disliked bc she is a black woman who got in the way of two white women who are strongly shipped. the same could be said about sam as an asian man.

and it reminded me a lot of dead to me s2 (the two shows are very similar btw). except that the character who got in the way of the "main couple" (both also white women) is a latina and also a very nice person. despite that, despite her being the healthiest relationship one of the main characters has ever had, most of the fandom hates her for no reason other than She Got In The Way Of Their Ship.

anyway, this is just a random rant about this trend of shows putting a poc between the fandom's favorite ship. and i hate that kcfh made tammy kinda annoying bc i find it 1) a lazy way of making her and patty break up in the future and 2) the perfect excuse for the fandom to dislike her as much as they want.

i guess i just wanted to verbalize that feeling and know someone's opinion on that.

(okay to make it public)

Heh, I'm not as sure about you on the endgame part, nor did I see the reaction toward Natalie Morales's character on Dead Like Me or even really Tammy outside of pointing out the ways in which her behavior hasn't been great, but yeah, in general I'd agree with you on how fandom treats POC and how media itself enables that.

I had the same reaction as you where initially I was like, oh, cool, that's gonna be romantic, and then kind of wincing every time Tammy was overbearing or pushy, because it really is convenient writing to make her unlikable. I'm not even sure for what purpose, unless they want Patty to stand on her own as well, or if the point is simply, people aren't perfect.

And yeah, they aren't, so some might say, well, why can't Tammy be a little imperfect, POC should get to be flawed and messy, but it's really quite different when they're not given much agency and interiority. Hell, POC who ARE given more space and time as leads and co-leads to establish their feelings aren't given much grace by audiences, so I do think that as nice and luxurious as it is to be like, I'm going to write this character as annoying and unlikable because they should be allowed to be, writers DO need to be aware of the reality in which their work is consumed.

Even white women, right, on a sliding scale compared to what white men get away with, can be disliked unfairly but WOC, I mean, a case study on their treatment on DCTV alone is proof that they can be everything that people think they should be, brave, noble, gracious, also flawed and imperfect, and people will just be terrible about them. In a TON of m/f ships (and probably more f/f ships, the more we get), it's so common to see the perfect but not perfect for them Black girlfriend obstacle to the "main" ship, the Disposable Black Girlfriend trope has a name.

Plus, this is IF these characters are written with good intentions, a lot of the time other biases do sneak in. It's not a coincidence most of the main cast is white, that the two rival love interests are POC. Yeah, Kevin is the worst character on the show and a white guy, but characters like Sam and Tammy don't get the luxury of five million portrayals as good guys and antiheroes and deconstructions the way Kevin does.

I'd like to say that Tammy third-wheeling what is now clearly the main love story of the show (mutually romantic or not) would always have placed her at a disadvantage, even if she'd been played by a white actress, but I dunno about that, lol. I've seen people really like these kinds of side ships (the beTRAYAL from the Lost Girl fandom...).

Ultimately, I know you're not really asking a question, just making an observation, and I definitely get what you're saying, even if this isn't the most egregious case of it. But hey, if you want to see Candice Coke not be treated like that, try to give Proven Innocent a chance if you haven't already.

#replies #femslash related stuff #sent on 20220913 #mariaaxescallop #5 #kevin can fuck himself #man I had so many plans for before tonight #was gonna clear out so many asks and gifsets for ncis but well here we are

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orowyrm · 2 years

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massive disclaimer this is not a fully thought out post im just firing this off from the bathroom at work and pretty much immediately after i hit post im putting my phone down and going back to the register so don’t throw me to the wolves on this but like. i genuinely don’t understand why so many people act like ai art is inherently ‘not real art’. i understand not liking it when people use it to try and emulate the styles of preexisting artists, that’s shitty and the people who do so are hacks but to act like their sheer existence is ‘robbing artists’ feels really like….. one dimensional. if i grabbed my good camera and took a photograph of a sunset while someone next to me painted that same sunset on a canvas, would my artistic interpretation somehow be ‘lesser’ because ‘all i had to do was push a button’?? the mindset that “the more a person suffers for their art, the better it is inherently” has always rubbed me the wrong way. art can and should be easy and fun, yknow? a while back i saw someone say basically word for word “these programs want our JOBS!!!” and it was weirdly funny to me bcs a. the ‘program’ doesn’t want anything. it’s code. it’s a tool. a human person still used the program to make that image. and also b. the people who would bypass commissioning a real human artist to just try and ai generate the pics they want to see are probably not the type of clients you’d wanna work with cuz if they want professional quality art at low/zero price i know personally i’d avoid them like the plague cuz they’d have no respect for the process. idk this isn’t a fully fledged thought it’s just something i feel kinda strongly about cuz it’s weird to see people go full on ‘fire bad technology scary thomas edison was a witch’ because they feel threatened by “good” ai art (what is and isn’t ‘good art’ is subjective anyway but whatever)

maybe it’s just a sore spot for me as someone who’s had people up my ass about digital art and photography and stylized art and simpler art styles and basically anything that isn’t ‘the norm’ for ‘good art’ being “not REAL art” all my life both in personal and academic circles so i’m conditioned to get defensive about this shit but it annoys me a lil. it’s such a weirdly hostile mindset to have to me i guess

#i know a lot do people feel strongly about this so i’m aware i might be kicking a hornets nest but like. cmon guys it’s just a fucking tool #i AM open to conversation on the topic too but i guess be civil about it. idk

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iloveumorethanlove · 2 years

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I don't think she meant any harm. I don't think she knows she caused harm to begin with. But I couldn't tell her anyways. I don't wanna get into it. Maybe I'm sensitive. But damn I'm tired of being this Happy, optimistic, reliable person. ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Sometimes, I'm fucking angry. Some days I'm sad as fuck. Some times I feel like the source of entertainment in the group cuz ya I'm a lil crazy and a lil eccentric. But fuck I need a break sometimes. Especially when I feel these emotions so strongly. Sometimes its just easier to shut the fuck up and isolate cuz I fear I might say some shit and start a fight. I know I am damn capable. But I don't want to. So I'm just gonna stay quiet and sort my feelings out myself.

I do appreciate her checking up on me. Its more than I can say for others. Sometimes I wonder if they even care. They can be so wrapped up in their own shit. And I get that they may be busy but fuck they only come out to either complain or brag. They never ask about anyone else. And that annoys me. I give one of them a break cuz I feel bad for her. I wonder if she feels like an outcast from us sometimes. I wanna check up on her more but I wonder if she would appreciate that. Other than that the others kinda annoy me sometimes. I mean I love them. But fuck. I'm tired of the whole "woe is me" routine. I'm tired of the "guess what" smugness. I'll still listen and chime in with a comment or piece of advice when I feel I should(even tho I may get labeled Judgey🙄) BUT Would it kill them to ask about someone else every now and then.

I guess that's why I hardly share things that happen to me. Whenever I do decide to share, I feel like it gets overlooked. Like they just skim over it. The other day, I brought up that I started talking to N. And no real response. Its like no one cares if it doesn't involve them. If they don't see their name in the sentence. They dont care. Only one really responds to things I share or ask advice on. I congratulate, hype them up, give advice when I can. But I don't really feel that reciprocation from them. I just want them to be happy for me. To ask. Maybe thats why I'm upset too. I just get tired. Tired of always being there for them. But not really feeling like anyone is there for me(except maybe ONE) but even then she didnt really ask me about N either sooo and maybe she was distracted but 😮‍💨 idk

I guess its just gonna take some more time. I think alot of this was repressed and maybe I was harboring this deep within me for a while. Maybe it's just finally bubbled up and I reached a limit of annoyance.

I do love them tho. No matter what. I just need time?

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heretherebedork · 2 years

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I need someone to scream about paint with love with!! Not a lot of people are watching it or giffing it, maybe cause it’s new and not very giffable moments happened, but it absolutely doesn’t feel like a BL to me, idk why it feels like a romcom for sure, like you know one of those hallmark movies about a girl moving to Christmas town and thinking her career is everything and she has a broken trail of relationships and meets a quirky local dude who’s there to show her the meaning of Christmas and life is, it feels like that but not annoying hahah. I get absolutely no romance right now and o think a lot of BL makes a mistake of having those uh-huh moments way too soon like give them a chance to fall in love properly, like they’re legit such an unlikely pair but also so many cliches already! Please share your thoughts on all the characters so far. Tanshimas character reminds me of Yihwa a lot o don’t want her to be typecasted as the same person every time and my fave Gun is so cute, I love openly gay actors playing gay characters (as it should be)

It does not feel like a BL at all! Which is probably why I'm not quite as obsessed with it as I could be, especially with the first episode where I find myself not really wanting the two main characters to get together. (I'm mostly cheering for Phap to just go off and get his own life far, far away from Maze so far!)

As @absolutebl pointed out on a post I made about differentiating BL from romcom, a lot of it is in the shooting and the score but I think, for me, it's likely mostly about the shooting.

But anyway, yeah, it's manic pixie dream guy and the uptight worker bee, which is also a romcom trope that even I know about.

The characters?

I don't like Maze. The level of manipulation he used to get Phap to work for him was actually painful to watch and took me from 'meh' on the uptight corporate character to actively disliking him. He literally phoned people who wanted to employee Phap and turned them down. That leaves Phap in a horrible position even after he finishes his work for Maze and I just can't stand that. He's basically ruined at least part of Phap's career just... forever. Not okay.

Phap is a manic pixie dream guy and he's cute. At least he's sweet and independent and I enjoy a character who's willing to go their own way as much as they can. I felt horrible for him when he realized he had to work for Maze against his own will in order to keep surviving. Plus, the moment when he gets kicked to protect the cockroach was really darling. I genuinely don't want him to end up with Maze at this point, though.

Nueng and Tharn are more to my taste but they're also have a much more traditional BL 'vibe' to them. They're young, they're playing as actors, they've already had the sweet little scene with the cold drink as the ice pack after the accidental punch... Now, I do know that they're absolutely not going to be that straightforward but that's okay.

I really do love that Nueng is Maze's ex and that definitely an interesting twist. And, again, openly gay characters! Yay!

Uh. Gun playing an openly gay character is great but the character feels too over the top for my taste as this point? I dunno, he feels like another Green and the last thing I need or want in this life is another Green, honestly. But, keep in mind, I am not a 2gether fan and barely made it through that show.

Basically, it's something I expect to watch but am not sure will actually be to my taste.

I greatly appreciate the sensibilities, tropes and energy of BL but romcoms typically aren't as strongly my jam. It's about the.... energy. The vibe. The way the characters interact. The tropes they use.

Paint with Love is something I'm willing to watch but don't expect to love. But I expect that a lot of people who are meh on BL are going to love Paint with Love in ways I won't and it's great to have a show for that!

I do wish I could gif it, but I don't know how to gif off Gaga or I would. So, you know, no gifs from me except for the videos that pops and Gaga post there.

#paint with love #paint with love the series #thai bl #thaibl #bl drama #bl series #asianlgbtqdramas #asian lgbtq dramas #thai series #thai drama #gay romcom #gay romance #seriously it's a romcom #with a bl subplot #which is unusual when both couples are gay #not my taste #but definitely good if it's yours!

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btssaysstudy · 4 years

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Rebound Pt. 1

Pairing: Jungkook x reader, Taehyung (V) x reader Genre: Angst Warning: Swearing, cheating mentioned Synopsis: After encouraging your best friend, Taehyung, (also crush) to tryout for the volleyball team, he had gained attention and you started getting closer to one of his teammates. When Taehyung gets himself into a relationship, you found yourself growing attached to Jungkook. However, when Taehyung’s relationship turns sour, he turns to you to fill the void - something Jungkook strongly opposed to. Word count: 6k+

Idk if people would be interested so request for a part 2 if you’d want one and if you want to be tagged?

PT. 2

“There’s no way I’ll get in.” Taehyung shook his head as he read the sign up form. You rolled eyes and shoved the laptop closer to his face. “You won’t know until you try! Plus, you said you wanted to try something new this year.”

It was the second week of the new academic year. It was your third year in college and Taehyung told you earlier on his new year’s resolution. So you were just doing your best friend duties, making sure he fulfils his resolution. “I don’t know y/n…” Taehyung frowned at the screen but you could see him slowly start to reconsider.

You and Taehyung had met during orientation week as freshmen and ever since, you were inseparable. Your first two years were spent being ‘lowkey’, avoiding the “It Clubs” and spending time within your own circles. Taehyung, on the other hand, had always wanted to try out a new sport however he was rejected when he first tried out track during freshmen year.

“You better do it or I’ll do it for you.” You threatened him, sitting up and giving him a pointed look. He chuckled and reached out for your laptop, beginning to key in his details. You smiled triumphantly, lying back on the bed as you watched your best friend fill up the sign up sheet.

You would never admit it to his face but he was cute. There was no lie in that. Even though he remained ‘lowkey’ with you, Taehyung would still get confessions time to time or even get girls sliding into his DMs. You were sure that if he ever joined any of the “It Clubs”, he would be popular.

“Why are you staring at me like that?” Taehyung gave you a questioning look. “Admiring my beauty?” He winked at you and you scoffed, throwing a pillow at his face. “Please, I was just thinking about how popular you’ll get once you get accepted.”

“If I get accepted.” “You didn’t even deny about the popular part.”

Taehyung grinned, shutting the laptop and lying in bed beside you. “If you’re worried about me ditching you, you don’t have to.”

“I’m not worried about that, idiot.” You laughed. Taehying shifted to lie on his left side, looking directly at you. You shifted on your right to look back at him. “Good. Because that won’t happen.”

_____

“Did you hear from them?” You asked, skimming through your lecture slides for the week. Taehyung was over at your dorm room after class, waiting for you to finish your ‘review’ so that you could go out to eat dinner. “I don’t know.”

You turned back to look at your phone lying on your bed, scrolling through his Instagram feed. “I don’t know? What do you mean?”

“I haven’t checked my email.”

“Why not?”

He just shrugged his shoulders, his eyes glued to his screen. You sighed, scooting your swivel chair next to the bed. You shoved him, nagging him to get up and check his email. “If you don’t get in, it’s fine! You survived college so far without it anyway.” After a few minutes of whining and delaying it, Taehyung gave in and signed into his email. You waited anxiously, watching his facial expressions for any signs of bad news or good news. His eyes shifted as he read through his emails. “So? Anything?” You pressed for an answer.

Taehyung locked his phone and tossed it on the bed. You frowned, reaching out to his pat his shoulders. “It’s okay, you did your best—“

“I got in!!” He exclaimed joyfully, pulling you in for a hug, wrapping both his arms and legs around you. You let out a short scream from the shock before wrapping your arms around your best friend to congratulate him, ignoring the fluttering feeling in your chest.

“I’m so proud of you Tae!” You squealed in excitement with him as he rambled on about how he couldn’t believe it and if he was dreaming. You laughed, “Why don’t you let me go and we can go out for dinner to celebrate?”

“Right.” Taehyung cleared his throat, promptly releasing his grasp on you. The two of you grabbed your belongings from your room and left to have a celebratory dinner.

_____

Practice took up a lot of his afternoon time but you saw it coming. Sports clubs are known for being time consuming but you were just glad that Taehyung seemed to be enjoying his time. Being ‘club-free’, you had a lot of spare time in the afternoon to join him at indoor sports hall to watch him train. You did this only because he asked you to be there and because he always promised for dinner after practice.

It didn’t take long for the team to be acquainted to you. “Back again to support your boyfriend, huh?” You looked up from your laptop to see one of Taehyung’s teammate grabbing his bottle of water and towel. You tried to not trail your eyes down to his sweat soaked shirt. “Once again, not my boyfriend.”

“And once again, always good news to me.” He winked at you, to which you laughed in response. “Go and train Kook.”

“Yes ma’am.” He laughed and jogged back to the court. Jungkook was in the same year as you and Taehyung. However, he was in the Volleyball team since freshmen year. There was no doubt about his popularity in college, especially amongst women. You never thought you’d become friends with Jungkook.

You looked around for Taehyung, catching him training his receiving with his seniors. A smile crept on your face as you watched in admiration, noticing how he face could be serious for one second and then flashing his boxy smile the next when his senior would compliment him.

You really had it bad. But it was fine as long as he didn’t know.

Their first volleyball match didn’t take too long to come, Taehyung was having his first game jitters. He had called you the night before the game, asking if he could come over to get his mind off things. You obviously agreed even though you were about to get ready for bed. You were annoyed at yourself at times for always being ready to drop anything for him. Though you reasoned out that it was because you were best friends. But you knew better.

“You’re going to do well Tae.” You placed your hand on top of his as a gesture of encouragement. “I’ve been to almost all your practices. You’re always training so hard and your seniors and coach trust you enough to put you in on the game. You gotta believe yourself sometimes man.”

Taehyung pressed his lips into a thin line, staring down at the floor. “I know you’re right but I’m scared I screw up this chance and they won’t put me in anymore.”

You shook your head, placing both your hands on his shoulders to shift him in a way that he faces you directly. “Stop thinking about the negative side Tae. Just focus on doing your best tomorrow and you will, okay?”

He finally gave you a more relaxed smile, “Yes ma’am.”

You laughed, punching his shoulder lightly. “That’s right. Now you should go rest.” You let out a yawn and he had a guilty look on your face. “Sorry I kept you up y/n.”

“No no, it’s fine. I’m just glad I helped you gather your thoughts before your game.”

“You’re going to be there right?”

“Wouldn’t miss it.” You grinned at him.

_____

Taehyung was truly a fast learner. His practices was displayed on the court, following the team’s plan easily and reacting to any changes in a split second. He had mad reflexes and it was truly an attractive thing to you. You cheered for him enthusiastically throughout the game. Your college easily took the first win, your whole area jumped up with joy as the team huddled together in celebration. “Come join the party, please?” Taehyung pleaded with his puppy dog eyes, knowing you couldn’t say no to that.

So there you were, in one of the volleyball senior’s house, trying to find a quiet corner to sit and use your phone. You didn’t want to hold Taehyung back and you could see he was enjoying his time with his seniors and newfound “friends”. A pang of jealousy hits you as you watched a batch mate approach him rather flirtatiously, offering him a drink. He was clearly enjoying this attention and you hated it. You admit that you could’ve prevented that by being by his side and party with him but you never liked these scenes.

“Careful, people might think you’re about to murder someone.”

You jumped in your spot, turning to see Jungkook chuckling at you. “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” You crossed your arms defensively. He shook his head, jutting out his lower lip as he mocked you, “Alright, my mistake. He’s not your boyfriend anyway.”

“Yes I told you Taehyung and I—“

“I didn’t even mention his name.” He raised an eyebrow at you, a smirk tugging on his lips. You glared at him, “Who else would you be talking about?”

Jungkook shrugged his shoulders, “I don’t know. I mean there are quite a few seniors over there, like Namjoon, he’s pretty hot too. Did you see his thighs—“

“Okay quit teasing me. I’m not in the mood.”

“Hey I’m sorry, I was just trying to lighten the mood—“

“I don’t need any of that.”

Jungkook nodded his head, following your gaze to see Taehyung with the seniors, being surrounded by a group of girls. He glanced back at you and sighed, “But I’m guessing you need some fresh air?”

You looked at him and grumbled, “Maybe I do.”

Jungkook led you to the backyard where there was a pool and barbecue pit. The two of your sat on the bench next to the pit since most were either in the pool or about to jump into the pool.

“Those girls are harmless you know. They’re always the same ones that come to the party just to flock to the team.”

“I’m not worried about that.”

“Then why are your eyebrows still furrowed like you’re ready to slap a bitch?” Jungkook’s tone was half concerned and half amused. You sighed and leaned back on the bench.

“I’m just not a party person.”

“So why are you still here?” Jungkook followed suit, leaning back into the bench.

“Tae.”

“You did your best friend duties already, y/n.” Jungkook shook his head, “You don’t have to sit through the night to watch him flirt with strangers.”

“Maybe I don’t. But I can’t ditch him. He’s my best friend.”

Jungkook sighed, “I get that, but you gotta remember you’re his best friend too. He shouldn’t be putting you through this.”

“Tae doesn’t know anyway.” You sat up abruptly, pointing a finger at Jungkook. “And it stays that way so you better not utter a single word to him.”

The boy smiled, doing the action of zipping his mouth shut and throwing the key into the pool. You laughed, Jungkook grinning at you. “There’s the laugh I love to hear.”

“Sure.” You scoffed.

“There’s a reason why I joke around with you during practice. It’s nice to hear your laugh.”

You were flustered from that genuine compliment, unsure of how to react. Jungkook laughed and patted your shoulders. “Don’t go falling for me now y/n. You have Taehyung to catch.”

Just from that all the flustered feelings were gone and you playfully nudged the volleyball player.

“You wish.”

_____

You arrived late for one of the volleyball trainings since you had a project meeting to attend to. Once it was over, you excitedly headed over to the indoor sports hall to support your best friend.

However, your mood immediately turned sour the moment you entered.

Who is she? You thought to yourself, stopping a scowl from forming on your face. “y/n!” Jungkook jogged up to you to greet you. “You’re late today.”

“Well at least you noticed that I arrived.” You grumbled, “I should just head home.” You spoke defeatedly while you still watched Taehyung joking around with an unfamiliar figure.

Jungkook sighed, “Yo, Taehyung!” He hollered at his teammate. Taehyung finally noticed you had arrived, happily approaching. “Y/N!” he pulled you into a hug. “H-Hey, sorry I’m late.”

“No no it’s fine! Anyway, I have updates to tell you.” He wriggled his eyebrows and you looked at him in confusion. “What updates?”

He grinned cheekily at you before tilting his head in the direction of the girl waiting behind. “We met at the party and exchanged numbers.”

“Oh!” You feigned excitement for your friend. You felt your heart ache from the news and you were ready to turn around and dash out. Taehyung was about to head back to court before he stopped, “Oh yea,” He looked back at you, “I can’t go out for dinner after practice. I’m taking her out somewhere. That’s cool with you right?”

“Y-Yea sure! We can always eat another time.” You smiled at him.

“Thanks y/n, you’re the best!” He flashed you two thumbs up before heading off.

“I’m guessing you’re leaving?” Jungkook came back to your side. “I have no reason to stay anyway.” You sounded defeated and you couldn’t be bothered to sound okay in front of Jungkook.

“Wait!” He grabbed the strap of your bag. “Why don’t we head out for dinner? Stay and watch.”

“Watch then flirt with each other? I’ll pass.” You scoffed.

The coach blew his whistle, signalling everyone to get back on court. “Just think about okay? We’ll go out for dinner afterwards.”

Jungkook gave you his classic charming smile but you could see it in his eyes that he was concerned about you. You gave in, nodding your head and made your way to the seats.

Throughout the practice, you were glued on your laptop, distracting yourself so that you won’t look at Taehyung and his new girl. You had to admit that you would catch yourself watching Taehyung being dead serious during practice. You would roll your eyes when you hear his ‘number one’ supporter cheering him on, while at the same time, hating your jealous side.

Once practice ended, Taehyung came up to you, slightly surprised. “Y/N! You’re still here! I thought you would’ve left.”

With a shrug, you opened your mouth to reply but Jungkook had beaten you to it. “She waited for me!” The sweaty player jogged up to your side, draping his arm over your shoulder.

“You’re sweaty.” You commented, trying to wriggle out from his grasp. “Yes I’m aware.”

“Waited for you?” Taehyung directed the question at his teammate who just nodded his head. You spoke up, “We’re going out for dinner.”

“O-Oh!” Taehyung’s eyes widened slightly before composing himself, “Well have fun you two! I’ll head off first! I’ll text you tonigh!” Taehyung ruffled your hair and headed off with his new companion.

“You’re stiff.” Jungkook shook your shoulders, trying to loosen you up. “Let’s just go for dinner.” You ignored his comment, grabbing your bag to head off with Jungkook.

Jungkook really took you by surprise. You couldn’t help but have a prejudice against members of these “It Clubs” in your college. You knew it was bad to assume but most of time, it was accurate. However, with Jungkook, he was actually shy at times. He could be really confident when he stood on court but you noticed outside the indoor sports hall, he was almost a different person.

“You know, never thought I’d be hanging out with Jeon Jungkook.”

He quirked his eyebrows, “Why do you say that?” You scoffed, “Because anyone on the volleyball team is usually popular.” He chuckled, ruffling his own hair. “I always hated that.”

“Oh sorry I didn’t mean to offend—“

“N-No no, you didn’t.” Jungkook shook his head. “I love my team members. They’re like one of the few real friends in college. I never knew how bad this popularity craze was until I joined the team. I just never got it. We’re all just college students.”

Nodding your head, you tried to think of a response. You never knew Jungkook had these thoughts. Then again, you never really sat down to get to know him better. Jungkook chuckled and you looked back up at him. “What’s so funny?”

“It’s nothing. Just feels nice to talk about it with someone.”

You gave him a comforting smile to which he returned one as well, for the first time, you both truly just enjoyed being in each other’s presence.

Ever since your dinner with Jungkook, you guys grew closer. You started to look forward to meeting Jungkook after training or after your own classes. Taehyung had also been busy with his own date and it seemed to be going well since his frequency of contacting you had decreased over the weeks. You had stopped going to watch their training since your midterms were drawing near, agreeing to meet Jungkook at a chosen eatery afterwards. “How’s Taehyung?” “What do you mean by how is he?” “Did he not tell you?” Jungkook looked hesitant to continue his sentence. You straightened your back, narrowing your eyes at Jungkook. “Tell me what?” Jungkook averted your gaze, slumping back in his seat. “They fought and the girl called it off. He skipped practice thrice in a row.”

“W-What?”

You started to wondering why Taehyung didn’t update you about it. Whenever you asked him about his relationship, he would say things were going well and it didn’t seem that it was going sour. “I didn’t know…” Your voice trailed off as you started to worry for Taehyung.

After a short moment of silence, you caught Jungkook raise his hand to get the bill. “Come on, I know you want to go check up on him. Let’s call it a night.”

“N-No, I can drop him a text later on.” Jungkook only smiled at you but you were taken aback by how forced it look. “Can’t fool me y/n.”

You frowned, feeling guilty about calling dinner early. “I’m sorry Jungkook. At least let me pay for dinner this time.”

“Not gonna happen. Also, there’s nothing to be sorry about. Let’s go check on your friend.”

After Jungkook insisted on paying for dinner, he accompanied you over to Taehyung’s dorm. “Text me when you’re back home later, yea?” Jungkook ruffled your hair goodbye before stuffing his hands back into his sweatshirts’ pockets and walked off. You watched Jungkook retreat away, wondering why he sounded dejected. Shaking your head, you looked at the door in front of you and knocked for Taehyung.

“Tae? It’s me.”

There was silence on the other side, you waited for a while before knocking once more. “Tae, I know you’re in there—“

“Y/N, why are you here?” Taehyung opened the door wide enough for you to come in. “I’m here to check on my best friend. And also to ask you why you didn’t tell me about what happened.” Taehyung sighed, plopping himself back onto his bed. “How did you find out?”

“Jungkook told me.”

“Jungkook? Since when were you guys so close?”

“Not the point here Tae. Why didn’t you tell me about it?” You asked him in a soft, comforting voice. Taehyung stared at the ceiling, avoiding eye contact. “It’s not a big deal anyway.”

“Really?” You scoffed, glancing around his room, “Your room tells me otherwise.” His volleyball outfit was hanging untouched on his door and polaroids of his newly ended relationship was thrown in the trash. Taehyung had been lounging in the dark before you came as well, his go-to “I’m sad go away” music playlist running softy in the background.

“It wasn’t going to last either. It got pretty rocky towards the end.”

“But I’m your best friend Tae. You shouldn’t be going through this alone.” You patted his knees, telling him to sit up and he did. Taehyung looked into your eyes, “Why can’t we just become a couple?”

“W-What?” You nearly choked on your saliva. Taehyung shrugged his shoulders, “We’re best friends. We know each other’s flaws and secrets. We’re close enough to get together. Why can’t we just get together?”

“Because you have to like each other romantically to get together—“

“We can try things out?”

“Tae, you just broke up with your girlfriend—“

“We’ll take things slow!” Taehyung grabbed your hands in his, ”We’re best friends! That’s like a couple already, all we just need is to go out on romantic dates!” As each second passed by, you knew Taehyung was becoming more attached to his idea and was starting to think that it was the perfect idea. You shook your head, pulling your hands away from him. “That’s a stupid idea Tae.”

Taehyung frowned, reaching for your hands once more. “Y/N, I care for you a lot. More than enough for us to try things out together. Tell me honestly, can’t you see something romantic between us?” You felt your heart pounding, your mind racing back and forth between the two sides. You knew he was just heart broken and he was going to treat you as a rebound. However, another part of you always wanted to try things out with Taehyung, you did like him after all.

“O-Okay fine.”

_____

After that day, Taehyung had been asking you to come back to watch his practices and he was serious about taking you out on dates. You started ignoring Jungkook’s texts. A part of you felt guilty to be talking to Jungkook. He had checked up on you that night to asked if you had gotten back safely. You felt butterflies reading such a simple text from Jungkook. That immediately made you feel guilty and you decided to ignore him.

That was why you had been hesitant to attend volleyball practices, but Taehyung was persistent.

You walked side by side with Taehyung, his arms over your shoulder as he kept you close. These moments made you forget that you were rebound as you allowed yourself to fully enjoy the moment. A big part of you felt that maybe Taehyung won’t see you as a rebound but things could really work out between the two of you. You felt happy being close with Taehyung again and you loved going out with him on dates.

“Y/N! It’s been awhile!” Namjoon hollered, waving wildly at you. You chuckled, greeting your senior hello. Jungkook’s posture perked up as he heard your name, he turned around eager to greet you, only to freeze when he saw you standing close to Taehyung. He composed himself before approaching you two, “What’s going on here?” He forced a teasing tone.

Taehyung grinned like a giddy nine year old boy, pulling you closer to him. “We’re just trying things out.”

Jungkook raised a questioning eyebrow at the sight before him, “Didn’t you just break up, Tae?”

“What does that have to do with me and y/n?” Taehyung frowned at his teammate. Jungkook raised his hands in defeat, shrugging his shoulders. “Nothing! I was just asking.” He casted a disappointed look in your way and you wished you could erase it from memory.

Halfway through practice, the coach whistled for a 15 minute break. You had gone out to buy a snack for yourself. “Y/N! Wait up!” You almost ran the moment you heard his voice. It was Jungkook. “What do you want?”

Jungkook just grinned at you, “A snack.”

The two of you walked to the vending machine to grab yourselves a light snack. “You know you’re his rebound right?”

“That may not be 100% true—“

“Y/N.” He called your name in a firmer tone, his friendly demeanour gone. Jungkook wrapped his hands gently around your wrist. “I don’t want you to hurt yourself.”

“Taehyung’s my best friend, Kook. He’s not going to hurt me.” You replied defensively, getting worked up by the thought of being a rebound. Jungkook sighed, “I know he’s your best friend—“

“And that’s enough for me to know he won’t hurt me. Can we drop it, please?”

Jungkook stayed silent, nodding his head. The walk back to the indoor sports hall was anything but comfortable. “Anyway, good luck for your upcoming game.”

“T-Thanks.” Jungkook pressed his lips into a small smile, opening the door for you.

_____

It was no surprise that the team won, you cheered from the stand as you proudly watched the team huddle together to celebrate. You caught Taehyung look back at the crowd, flashing you his boxy smile. In that moment, you felt that everything was right and finally coming together.

That night, it was their celebratory party. You should’ve learned your lesson about not liking parties. But you were there to support your date. “Thanks for coming Y/N.” Taehyung brought you out to the backyard, sitting by the pool. The guests were only starting to arrive so it was mostly the team at the house. The backyard was just for you and Taehyung to use.

“It’s not a big deal. I’m proud of you.” You smiled at him, patting his thighs encouragingly. Taehyung chuckled, “I’m also thankful you agreed to try things out between us. I hope you have no regrets.”

You looked up at him, shaking your head. “A-Actually, I always kinda liked you. For a long time, in fact.”

Taehyung frowned, “I’m sorry, I didn’t know.”

“No there’s nothing to be sorry about Tae. I didn’t tell you either.”

Silence ensued as you two continued to look into each other’s eyes. The cheering from indoors suddenly went silent and all you heard was the sound of water as you both swayed your feet in the pool. You watched Taehyung slowly lean in and you did the same, closing the gap to kiss your best friend. You dreamt of this moment so long and it had finally happened.

When you two pulled away, Taehyung had a cheeky smile on his face. “Can’t believe I just kissed my best friend.” “Shut up.” You shoved him, getting up from the ground. The two of you headed back inside, Taehyung sneakily intertwining is hands with yours.

The other college students started to arrive and it didn’t take long for the party to begin. You went to the kitchen to get food since you were starving. You talked to the other volleyball players who have grown to be acquainted with by the kitchen counter, near the food station. Taehyung went to the living room to mingle with the guests.

“By the way, have you seen Jungkook?” You asked Namjoon. “Oh, he’s playing beer pong outside.”

Once you finished your plate you excused yourself and headed out to find Jungkook. “Hey!” You shouted over the music. Jungkook glanced at you before easily shooting into the last cup successfully. “You guys go ahead.” He told the group and left with you. “Thought you said you’re not a party person.”

“Yea but Taehyung’s here. I’m just here to support.”

Jungkook nodded his head, stuffing his hands in his pocket. “Where is he anyway?”

“Probably drinking too much with the others.” You chuckled, glancing inside. Jungkook furrowed his eyebrows, “You know she was invited right? His ex?” You tried your best to shrug it off, “Oh really? Didn’t know that.”

He shook his head in response, stopping in his tracks. “You should stop being in denial y/n.”

“I’m not. We just had a heart to heart talk awhile ago and things are going great between us.”

“I’m just saying that because I care about you.”

You sighed, nodding your head, “I know Jungkook. I know that.” You guys suddenly heard a group of buys singing their hearts out through the microphones from inside. With a chuckle, Jungkook suggested that you guys head in to watch Namjoon singing Titanic.

“No way, Yoongi is belting it out too.” You laughed, watching the two passionately sing their hearts out. You glanced around the living room, noticing that Taehyung wasn’t there.

“I’ll go get a drink, want any?”

“Whatever you get. Thanks y/n.” Jungkook thanked, busy taking out his phone to film his seniors singing Titanic. “This is blackmail material.” He chuckled to himself. You squeezed through the sea of people, making your way to the kitchen to grab a drink.

However, a part of you wished you stayed to watch the Titanic performance in the living room.

You stood there frozen, not even knowing what to say. Taehyung was leaning against the kitchen counter, dangerously close to his ex as they talked and laughed about whatever their conversation was. You watched as she trailed her hands down his chest, Taehyung not declining the gesture at all. “I missed this.” He admitted out loud. “Maybe we can have another chance?” She asked Taehyung as she seductively grabbed the collar of his shirt to pull herself closer.

You took a deep breath in and walked inside to make your presence known. “I think you guys should get another chance together.” You bitterly interjected their conversation. The two immediately pulled away from each other. “Y/N, w-we were just talking—“

You scoffed, taking an empty cup and filling it up with whatever hard liquor you first touched. “I know you were. I heard everything - how you missed it. It’s okay Tae, I get it.” You shook your head, more disappointed that you have been fooling yourself the entire time. “I’m the fool here anyway. Enjoy your night together.”

Raising the cup, you tilted your head to their direction. “Cheers, to you guys getting back together!” You turned on your heels and started to walk away.

“W-Wait y/n we should talk—“

“Oh yea,” You looked back at him, “That also means I’m done dating you.”

You didn’t wait for a reply as you walked out of the kitchen and passed the living room. “Hey! Where’s my drink?” Jungkook stopped you. You looked at him and back to your cup before downing the whole large cup of liquor.

“Woah, slow down Flash.” Jungkook reached out to take the cup from you. Though, it was already empty. “I can get my own cup. You didn’t have to down—“

“Yea, why don’t you go inside the kitchen and see the couple getting back together. I’m sure it’s a sweet sight.”

“W-What?” Jungkook’s head jerked to the direction of the kitchen, watching Taehyung walk out of the area in panic with his ex trailing behind after him. You heard the plastic cup crunch in his grasp, and you nodded your head. “You’re right, I’ve been fooling myself the whole time. I even snapped at you. I’m sorry.”

Jungkook’s attention shifted back to you as he watched your eyes water and your attempts to blink them away. “Let’s leave this place.”

“No, it’s your celebratory party, I’ll go—“

“We’ll go.” Jungkook took your hand in his, leading you out through the main door.

“Y/N!” Taehyung’s voice called out for you as you two left. You turned around to see Taehyung catching up to you. “What are you doing with Jungkook?” “I’m going home.”

“With Jungkook? Y/N, please, we need to talk—“

“I don’t think she wants to talk—“

“You’re not part of this conversation, Jungkook.” Taehyung glared at him. “And why don’t you keep your hands off of her!” Taehyung reached out for your hand but you stepped back, tears brimming in your eyes. “Please, just leave me alone.”

Taehyung glanced between the both of your before laughing. “You’re upset with me with what happened in the kitchen yet you are leaving the party with another man? I should be upset too—“

“Shut up Taehyung! You know I would never do that to you, we are at the same fucking party and you still have the audacity to flirt with your ex! Under the same fucking roof! All Jungkook did was comfort me after seeing such an amazing sight! So no, you have no right to be upset! So can you just leave me the fuck alone?!” You snapped, yelling at the top of your lungs at Taehyung to just leave you.

“Y/N, it can’t just end like this… We’re best friends—“

“We should’ve just kept it there. That’s my fault.” You aggressively wiped your tears away, looking back at Jungkook. “I want to leave.” He nodded his head, “I’ll drive you home.” The two of you walked away, leaving Taehyung to stare at your retreating figure as he started to realise what he had done and what it had cost him. In the car, you stared outside the entire ride, letting tears fall silently as you started scolding yourself internally. You had both eyes wide open the entire time yet you still allowed it to happen to you.

Jungkook being the gentleman he was, gave you the silence you needed throughout the ride back to your dorm. The two of you made your way up to your room, collapsing onto your bed the moment you entered. “We can talk about it tomorrow after you rest.” Jungkook handed you a glass of water.

“I’m free the whole day—“

“Can you stay the night?” You meekly asked, sniffling in between words. Jungkook’s heart ached at the sight of you crying, gripping the cup as you tried to calm yourself down.

Nodding his head, he sat beside you, carefully taking the glass from your hands and placing it on the bedside table. He wrapped his arms around your as he pulled you in for a hug as you started weeping, scolding yourself at the same time.

“I hate myself. I hate that I agreed with his plan. I hate—“

“Stop hating yourself y/n, people make mistakes. Now you just have to learn from it.” Jungkook comforted you, gently rubbing your back to calm you down. Exhausted from crying and also from being tipsy, you managed to fall asleep in his embrace.

So yea, request if you’d like a part 2 and if you want to be tagged! I’d love to hear from you guys if you liked it!

PT. 2

417 notes · View notes

bilbao-song · 3 years

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heres an ask because i too am desperate to engage with people. i know u dont care about roxy music but you did say you would accept something as incoherent as a keysmash so here is an equivalent: admittedly i find the dynamics between ANY band and their fans very interesting, but roxy music in particular. there is a peculiar divide between those who are staunch bryan ferry fans (these people typically dont give half of a shit about anyone else in the band), those who are fans of the group as a whole and dont particularly care about individual members at all, and those who are most interested in phil manzanera and andy mackay and sometimes the other guys, who generally quite dislike bryan (i being the latter)- and often there is resentment between the groups. i think its so interesting that a group of people can be presented with the same exact material, love it and enjoy it for years, and yet latch onto different parts of it and make it such a part of their identity that should you confuse one with the other they become insulted, or if nothing else will tell you "no no, i like roxy music but i REALLY like bryan, i think hes the best", or "no no, i love roxy music and im a fan of andy and phil in particular but i dont care for byran much at all, dont get it twisted", etc. are there bands you're more familiar with who have this sort of divide amongst the fanbase? do tell me about them, if you like :>

first of all i absolutely love that u sent this ksdhgkshg this is like. exactly the kind of thing i wanted

sorry for taking 39485949 years to post this lmao. i wrote like FIVE entire paragraphs and then had to edit it but it was getting super late and anyway it’s still absurdly long (as in, i can say whatever i want in the below text bc no one is going to want to read it) and definitely devolved into a huge general rant about the annoying and creepy behaviors of some people within band fanbases (specifically ELO-related bc of course) as well as vagueing about my own controversial opinions but......nonetheless.

anyway!!! i find this kind of thing really interesting too!! and i know EXACTLY what you’re talking about. there are just sooo many facets to this, and i guess it’s different for every band. on the one hand i do think it’s kind of an interesting phenomenon bc if you think about it, they’re basically enjoying the same thing but taking wildly different/opposing stances on it. as a whole i would find it a lot more interesting/amusing and less frustrating if people could like...manage these kinds of differences without turning it into some kind of overly vitriolic/super hostile opposition that you would think is about politics or something and not a band we r supposed to be listening to for entertainment purposes. i mean, i 100% get that things don’t have to be Extremely Important to be worth discussing, but it just seems wild the way some people get SO intensely angry about these things, sometimes to the point of being kind of inappropriate. i have a lot of issues with the way some people within band fanbases tend to behave lol

.......anyway the Full Rant is below here (idk why i wrote this bc it’s long enough to be turned in for a grade and it’s only partially relevant. read at ur own risk):

so!! thankfully with most bands i enjoy i just kind of watch the fanbase from the sidelines and don't get too involved in or even aware of all the drama. like...i know about the band and enjoy the music but just manage to not get involved in whatever the community happens to be collectively freaking out about at any given moment. i feel like the kind of divide you mentioned is actually pretty common within band fanbases (i think there are things like this with like...styx and three dog night? among others? but i don't know all the details 👀) but like, FORTUNATELY with most of them i just would not know. that's very nice because i unfortunately do not always have that kind of luxury with the ELO fanbase...idk i have a lot of very strong ELO-related opinions that i usually don't like to discuss in great detail bc i get disproportionately frustrated but yeah basically what you described does kind of happen among ELO fans, although thankfully i'd say it's to a somewhat lesser extent? people are commonly at each other's throats about a variety of topics including (but not limited to) who they support or don't support, but there are still plenty of people who (thankfully) are not so aggressive lmao. there is sort of a divide within the fanbase but i feel like it's probably not so 50/50 as what you're talking about...maybe more like 85/15

THAT SAID, i have frequently commented on the fact that the ELO fanbase is largely a dumpster fire and there is a whole entire sector of the fanbase that is comprised of people who i absolutely cannot stand, and most of them do fight a lot lmao. this is only partially related to the subject at hand, but a good portion of the bickering is relevant to The Divide. like, i'm 100% okay with having a different opinion than someone else as long as they aren't acting like a complete freak about it, but idk, aside from the fact that most of these people are like?? needlessly aggressive?? there are certain opinions held by certain members of the Greater ELO Community that just give me that vibe of like...hmmmm this is a person i probably would not want to associate with at all, even in matters completely unrelated to this. Unsavory Person Vibes. i mean like, “opinions” that just boil down to "i am very very entitled and also incapable of seeing anyone else's perspective on literally anything ever BUT that isn't going to stop me from openly whining about this absolutely whenever possible." like!! it's one thing to have some kind of legitimate, reasonable criticism of an individual or band but some, if not most, of the things i've seen people losing their minds over within this fanbase have been so hilariously trivial that i just CANNOT understand how these people actually managed to get to be (presumably) functional adults who are probably like 50+ years old. i mean like, full-blown tantrums and calling someone all sorts of nasty things over something that shouldn't even be an issue because without exaggerating i cannot fathom how anyone could even be majorly upset about it in the first place. to give an example: someone once had a whole entire little strongly-worded, excessively presumptuous freakout because a guitar was no longer on loan to the rock and roll hall of fame. like...it was there for quite awhile and two out of four inductees loaned absolutely nothing but you're whining because one who DID loan something eventually took it back? do we not know what the word "loan" means? anyway the best part is that basically every time something like this happens, if someone tries to point out that the person is overreacting or perhaps just needs to look at a situation another way, they will then go off on that person bc god forbid we try to be level-headed about things. everything has to be Very Horrible All The Time or we’re doing something wrong or being stupid or something. idk i'm convinced that some people just want to be angry

also just...some of these people do some really shady things that i personally feel are morally questionable but there's nothing i can do about it so i try to just kind of avoid dwelling on it lmfao. like, it's not okay to violate people's privacy just because they're famous and you're overly entitled/nosy/desperate for clout/blatantly trying to profit off of them? i know in the Sane World that's a completely non-controversial idea but band fanbases apparently often aren't based on sanity skhglkshgks idk i could probably write a small novel on this and make a specific list of all the things they do that are just like...bafflingly tone deaf and kind of appalling but i digress. idk the worst part to me is the way they'll be like, saying/doing something that's just awful or like, maybe even totally factually wrong while acting like they're in the right. absolutely wild

to at least somewhat bring this back to what we were ATTEMPTING to talk about!!! personally i've reached a point where i pretty much no longer care about like 90% of anyone who has ever been in ELO (jeffrey/richard/roy/mike de albuquerque supremacy) but i'm not like, actively a Hater of the others lmao. i appreciate that they were there and enjoy the nostalgia(? i wasn’t alive) of it and i’m glad they’re out there existing but i just...don’t really care about anything they do at this point?? a good portion of it is a result of me taking issue with certain things some of them have done, which has impacted the way i feel about them, but MOST of it is really not that deep and it’s just that some of them just don't particularly interest me on that kind of level/i don't feel the need to get that invested in like 927509257 different people (fun fact: during the 1970s every third person in existence on earth was, at least briefly, a member of ELO). there's really only one ELO-adjacent person who i actually very strongly dislike and a) luckily i feel like they barely even count as a member b) the reasoning is kind of its own Thing and has very very very little to do with anything related to the band so it's kind of another subject entirely. anyway that’s as close as i’ll ever get to actually getting involved with any of the Drama sgsdgsdgfhdh. my primary beef is with the fanbase anyway because, as previously mentioned, there are too many insane people. i guess what i’m getting at here is that yeah there’s a divide and it does affect me BUT i also don’t really get why people allow this to make them act in a way that goes beyond just having a difference in opinion and is so overly hostile towards each other as well as the people they’re discussing. like...if anyone involved is a serial killer or something even remotely similar then yeah, being outraged on an extreme level and absolutely hating them even as an outsider makes sense. otherwise? calm down!!!!!

anyway. to wrap up this mostly incoherent rant that i hope no one read: i have always suspected that band fandoms kind of attract certain kinds of very distressingly weird people and i just think it's funny how there's always like, a little cluster of people within the fanbase who basically seem like they actually hate the band (those are almost always the Weird Ones bc i can’t tell you how many times i’ve witnessed a person who is like, into a band to a CREEPY extent and then one day they just flip and become a hater). at that point i'm just like, okay? so why are you still here lmfao. i guess that's the Main Idea of all of this lol. i just don't get why these people stick around when 98% of all they ever do is complain and act overly judgy? i just feel like if my so-called favorite band was making me that miserable i would try to find another band to like instead of becoming a menace to society. that’s just me tho

to bring all of this together i guess i just assume that some kind of phenomenon like this occurs within basically every band fanbase. idk it just seems pretty universal for some reason. certain kinds of people just love drama i guess and will turn any difference of opinion into some kind of shitshow

tl;dr: yes

#every time i talk about this sort of thing i think about how my mom joined some of the elo facebook groups #and after a few weeks she was like omg!!! you were right!!! they're crazy!!! they're FIGHTING with each other!!!#sadly the facebook ppl are actually pretty tame compared to what can be found lurking in other corners of the internet #anyway this mostly just turned into me vagueing about my beef with the elo fanbase again but it's hard not to go there sdhglkhsdgl #also i feel like with a lot of things that cause Controversy within band fandoms it's just like #people getting so angry over things that don't affect them and that the actual people involved aren't even that concerned about anymore #AND ppl assuming they have the whole story on a particular issue when oftentimes it's likely that they don't #whether it's bc the information just isn't out there or because certain sources are obviously going to slant things in their favor #which is not inherently a problem bc of course people have different perspectives but you just can't forget that that's a thing #idk i have.....so many very strong opinions but the idea of being specific about it in a conversation gives me hives #metaphorical hives #anyway thank you for sending this bc i am literally always waiting to rant about weird ppl within band fandoms #eddie-riff

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angelhummel · 3 years

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Idk if it's unpopular, probably is from what I have seen but I don't like most of Brittany's relationships and friendship and I want her far away from my favorites because they all feel incredibly one sided with them treating her nicely but get horrible treatment in return and somehow they end up the villain. :/

She is cheating on Artie? Who cares he called her stupid so bad Artie and let's ignore the fact that she was using you in the first place despite you being so sweet to her. She released a sex tape? Who cares it's Santana's fault for wanting fame and she should thank her. She hangs the posters without permission? Who cares Kurt is in the wrong for being upset that she crossed his boundaries and should apologize. She banned hairgel and makes fun of Blaine's hair? Well it's her prom. She should decide how others dress for it. Anyway sunshine twins are best friends!

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

:) I mean I really don’t have anything to add. You hit the nail on the head. But also I will add stuff cause I heart to bitch

I think Brittany has exactly two (2) good friendship moments, both when she’s talking to Santana. During Prom Queen, when she goes to console Santana but also tells her they need to be there for Kurt bc he needs them more right now. And then in New York when she says this year was about acceptance and family and friendship and she gets to spend another year with the people she loves, so that makes her happy.

But also the latter one is ruined bc she’s literally so bitchy to everyone all the time. Even when she’s “helping” like wanting to share her wedding with K&B she still finds a way to insult their appearances for literally no reason. And then her speech to Kurt in 6x03 is just weird to me. When she’s comparing the chocolate bar to Kurt’s problems with Blaine. Like “you have to eat the chocolate bar or it’ll melt and look like you have poop in your hands”. Are you 5 years old?? Why are you talking like this?? It’s not bRiTtAnY’s UnIqUe MiNd it’s just weird to me lol. But I mean most of what she says makes me uncomfortable so...

And she pisses me off sooo much in regards to Tina. Telling her acting is a pipe dream for her, constantly telling her to shut up. Tina is literally like “I love you both and I support this engagement and I will help however I can with your wedding” and Brittany is like “You’re so selfish and annoying pls shut up” but it’s like. humor. so funny

And making digs at Blaine’s appearances and literally just being like “I don’t like the way you look”. But if you say something mean about Brittany then it’s “bullying is wrong and I won’t stand for it!” I mean it’s the same as Santana. They can dish it out but they can’t take it :)

Like in s2 Brittany says she’s giving Rachel some tough love by telling her that she’s uncool and dresses like shit lol. And then Sue gives Brittany some tough love in s4 and Brittany’s like “tough love feels a lot like mean :(” like oh now you get it

And again with Brittany and Santana like they can get away with murder and the fandom will just praise whatever shitty things they do. But if you had a “friend” like this in real life?? It would be fucking exhausting and you would not wanna spend any time with them, guaranteed

send me your unpopular opinions!

#glee #asks #answered #unpopular opinions #my thoughts #anti brittany pierce #lol brittany pierce #luckycupcake2

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feckin-zicons · 3 years

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that's why i hate larries, i hate them with all my heart. besides being boring they are hypocrites 🙄

Hey nonnie, sorry its taken me so long to reply but if you’re following me you know I’ve been travelling lately and have been more scatterbrained than usual. Not that I’m ever not scatterbrained, but its been just a little crazier than usual!

Now I wouldn’t go as far to say I hate Larries. After all their delusions can be pretty funny sometimes!

Joking aside, I don’t hate Larries, I love Larries, I’m a Larry, so I really hesitate to tarry the whole group with the same brush. However I do strongly agree with you that there are those who are complete hypocrites. Nothing annoys more more than when Larries ™ treat the other boys, other celebrities, their friends and even family as one more side character to the Larry Show.

In particular when Larries ™ flood comment sections asking or in some cases, ordering people to confirm rumors/the couple being together. The absolute fucking disrespect. Not just because they’re flooding comment sections in videos streams, tweets, what have you, that sometimes have nothing to do with the couple in question, but because its presumptuous and rude as fuck to think they’re owed a coming out- just because they’re fans of the boys.

Stop it. Thats fucking ugly as hell.

While I have no doubt all the boys will one day be out (as referenced by their continued efforts in fighting the closet. I don’t get the sense the boys will just stop at being freed from their contractual obligations). It should and will be on their own terms. Provided they’re not forcibly outed some other way.

Coming out is a deeply personal experience and no one, no one ever, has the right to out someone else. I’ll never not be absolutely furious at the Larries ™ who posted about having ‘receipts’ that would out the boys. Which… tbh weren’t receipts at all but thats a whole other story. I’m also still angry at the reactions after Liams Attitude spread that wouldn’t have been as bad if not for the entitled fandom that peddled ridiculous claims beforehand about Liam confirming Larry to be real.

I mean… What the actual fuck. Setting aside the fandom experience of the time, and boy was it an experience. What right would Liam have confirming Louis and Harry’s relationship? I mean, get some perspective? It doesn’t help that a lot of fandom adults were the ones coming up with, and reblogging those theories and the younger fans ate it up. It would have made more sense for Louis and Harry to do it but idk maybe I’m still out of touch for thinking so. I mean, it felt like every other week someone was talking about Larry coming out. It was such a shit storm oh my god.

Biggest issue I still have with them is that the entitled behaviour hasn’t stopped. For some it seems like, Larry coming out is it for them. Like pack it up, goodbye, shows over, Louis and Harry are gay and in a relationship and everything is rainbows, we get to see cute pictures of them and everyone lives happily ever after.

Yeah, no. Coming out, for anyone, is just the beginning, can’t even begin to imagine what its like for them. They’re still going to need everyones support, and it irritates me that for some fans it seems so fucking conditional.

Time and time again, I’ve seen tweets, and posts, and videos, whatever, going on about Larry coming out and it reads like a fucking wattpad story. Not just that but its always on the assumption by the poster, on the off chance they consider the other 3/5ths of the band and Ziam being a possibility, that Larry will come out first?

What?

I’m sorry but, what?

Everything I’ve seen from the boys tells me they’re all in this together, they support each other and are working through the bullshit as a team. We have all seen the No Judgement music video yes? The merch, posts, double speak etc referencing each other, yes?

I mean, I suppose if you only look at Louis and Harry, like so many do, sure. Only Larry matters, everyone else is a side character in their life.

(Lemme just, scream for a second).

However, that kind of thinking leads them to the wrong conclusions. Like… assuming the SBB/RBB countdown was attributed to nothing, when it counted down to Liam finally being free of Sophia. In the years since, I’ve seen Larries ™ backtrack on claiming the bears had anything to do with the boys, that they weren’t behind it at all, or that they were just trolling the fandom.

You know, despite all the proof otherwise, and some really, really good posts breaking down clues about what the boys were trying to tell us. The moment something might not actually be about Louis and Harry its like all their thinking shuts off. Its frustrating. Really fucking frustrating.

Seriously, fans of the other boys as individulas, not just Ziams, have been talking about the stunts too and how they fit together. Its why we tend to be right, because we’re considering the entire group. They’re still a group. They’re not free until all of them are free.

Just for that Nialls coming out first. Lmao. I’ll call it now. Lets go Niall, whens the baby coming. We all wanna know. Its been years.

Imagine, imagine! Acting like coming out is some race to be won. The fucking audacity.

Go outside and touch fucking grass you absoulte ninny.

I get it, you want to be vindicated, you want to be rewarded for putting your faith in two celebrities being together.

Newsflash you dandelionfluff, its not a race, Louis and Harry coming out isn’t a fucking prize. Thats not what supporting a relationship looks like.

Its worse when someone admits they don’t know much about Ziam or the possibility of Niall being LGBT+, and claim they’re open to it, but then immediately tweet or reblog or sub tweet or tag comment a post or answer an ask from another Larry ™ talking about how Larries ™ are the most marginalized and persecuted group.

???

In what fucking world?

IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD?

If we wanna play that game, boohoo, the media claims Louis and Harry aren’t friends anymore because of crazy shippers. Meanwhile Zayn publicly isn’t friend with anyone and “left” the band… despite the Ziam fandom calling the stunt about either Louis or Zayn “leaving” and getting it down to the exact week (the second article coming out a week before about the Ziam kiss pretty much cemented it for Zayn leaving. Which did a lot to fan the flames of the already rabid fanbase when Ziam got two articles confirming a Ziam kiss over the years and Larry got nada. Like that actually means anything).

Not to mention Larries ™ using the hetties and management tactics against the other parts of the fandom to silence them.

Who cares what the media says anyway! TPTB, 1DHQ, The Sun, The Mirror, Simon and his minions and their unpaid interns have used the media to split the fandom apart and it worked.

Who the fuck cares if the media calls the 1D stans delusional, you know the truth! The truth it out there and you’ve seen it! The truth is coming! Who gives a damn about what some two bit “journo” who failed out of their creative writing course writes? They get worse by the year. If it wasn’t so pathetic and hilarious I might actually feel embarrassed for them. They can’t even come up with new stories and have just taken to copying old articles, but you’re upset with them??? Give it a rest. Honestly.

The sense of disconnect, entitlement and victimhood of some Larries ™ is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh my god they’re Karens. I’m not trying to be insulting, but thats exactly who they remind me of.

I’m not going to say its a surprise to me that so many in the Ziam fandom are POC, LGBT+, and Neurodivergent and any combination of those, but I am going to say I’ve read a lot of Larry fics that just have Het sex made gay. Those in the Ziam fandom just tend to look at facts in a different way than Larries do due to their life experiences. A interfaith, interracial, relationship where one or both partners fall under the Bi umbrella (not saying Louis or Harry can’t be or aren’t Bi+ but rumors, and the way the fandom markets them, puts them firmly in the gay category) looks very, very different than gay or straight relationship. Both looking from outside and being in one. There’s just different dynamics at play that aren’t often realized or understood by the gays and hets.

Its not a bad thing. All relationships are different. The issue is that theres a lot of biphobia/racism/religious prejudice etc that arises from people being unwilling to understand the inherent differences.

Taking myself for example, I’m bi, like, bi as hell, and I don’t understand how gays and hets only like one gender. I just don’t. Can’t wrap my head around it. If someone asks me to choose one gender over the others to prefer I can’t. Its so stressful. My brain goes into panic mode and it feels like I’m being torn apart. My sense of identity is shaken- its a shit feeling. I just can’t lie to myself like that. If other people feel the same well, its no wonder bi+ have such high rates of depression and suicide. Its not about choosing who to like, there is no choice, I just feel attraction to everyone. Aces, I get. Its similar to being the opposite of what I feel, or not feeling an attraction to someone I’m not interested in. Easy. Gays and hets? I’m completely lost on.

Completely, and I know I’m not the only one who feels that way. But that doesn’t mean I’m not willing to try and understand where they’re coming from. Its alien to me, personally, but I’m not going to shut down the fact, that theres a fuck ton of people who only like one gender or try and make up reasons as to why they’re actually bi+

I digress, none of the boys fall neatly into the gay stereotypes, its just that parts of the Larry fandom have boxed Louis and Harry into certain roles to fit preconceived notions (likely do to them initially fitting in better with the white, sassy, somewhat effeminate twink thats been plastered all over Hollywood as their “LGBT+ representation” for years. Gag), they can understand better, and only look for proof to back up their theories but don’t look at things objectively.

They really need to get out more and make some LGBT+ friends that aren’t on the internet and talk to some gay elders. They need educating that’s not the often sanitized and insulting Hollywood version, that’s all I’m saying.

They made Louis and Harry more palatable for themselves and its… really gross.

I don’t know, I don’t get it.

Some Larries ™ turned the boys into their fandom and fanfiction stereotypes when they’re so much more than that. The Sony leaks should have been enough to dissuade the fandom, and prove that the brand sold to the broader audience is just that- a brand, and yet… Niall only talks about food and golf and Ireland and is only allowed to be straight or ace. If he exists at all its just to be Capt Niall. Liams slow and dumb and depending on the day he’s either Capt Liam or a horrific abusive homophobe. Zayns just The Worst, a unstable drug addict, and the boys hate each other, and they should have kicked him out of the band sooner because he never wanted to be part of them anyway, etc.

It drives me absolutely around the bend some days. They’re real people who don’t owe anyone anything, especially not coming out.

Yes, I think they will. But they’re not obligated to. They can change their minds, I’ll support them regardless of an “official” coming out or not.

Look, a part of me gets it. They wanna be right, they wanna prove the haters wrong, they want to be able to say I called it all along! The vindication will be sweet.

But like, it takes a quick look at someone other than Louis and Harry to realize theres something hinky going on with Liam, Zayn and Niall. Please listen to their fans who have spent just as much time as you have looking into Louis and Harry compiling together evidence.

It might take a weekend to watch the ILYSM and pterodactyl bros videos and a few more hours looking into some Niall blogs, which isn’t much compared to the hours I know they’ve spent looking into Larry. At least then they’ll have enough information to form an opinion on things.

I wonder, for some, what would happen if Larry didn’t come out, or didn’t come out first, or one of the other boys was outed against their will. Because… I don’t know. It seems like some would rather just be proven right at this point.

I get it. We’re tired. Its been eleven long years. But this isn’t a television show were everything can come to a head with a s3 or s4 cliff hanger and fixed in the series finale. Its real life, and they started off as boys trusting industry veterans who never had their best interests at heart.

Iduno. I just want some Larries ™ to take a step out of the echo chamber, realize life isn’t The Larry Show & co. And especially. ESPECIALLY, that every instance were someone, friends, family, co-works, industry peeps etc support the boys they are SUPPORTING THE BOYS, NOT THE FANDOM. They are not “confirming Larry for the fans” they’re doing it to support the couple, not to cater to the fandom. Please stop confusing the two. There’s a huge fucking difference. Learn it.

#Honestly it should be the Liam Payne the three guys who’ve had a crush on him and the one who married him.#aka the hill I'll die on #lmao #sorry not sorry #IM SORRY IT LOOKS LIKE I HAD A LOT MORE TO SAY ABOUT THIS THAN I THOUGHT I WOULD #ASDFGHJKL;#also please don't think I'm calling anyone out specifically #these are a lot of generalizations and trends I've noticed after being in fandom for nearly 11 years they pop up all the damn time #circles we're just going in circles #I've been following Ziam in particular since the Nov 2011 interview #but suspected Liam had a crush sometime before when I saw a gifset of him talking about Zayns birthday presentsbc he as acting the exact sa #e way I was when I was crushing on a girl I knew #I saw myself in him and ignored it for another day #lmaooo #ziam #larry tunnel vision #larry vs ziam #Larry vs Niall #fandom bs #ask

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