I'm seeing everyone pointing out the possible issues with Epic the Musical's deviation from the original story of Circe and Odysseus, and as someone who's studied Ancient Greece/ancient Greek myths a bit, I wanted to say some stuff about it. This will be a bit of a long one, so apologies for my rambling!
Note that I'm not trying to shit on SA survivor's perspectives and (completely valid) arguments. I'm just trying to offer some context surrounding the original myth and how it fits (or rather, doesn't fit) with a modern audience. If I'm wrong with any of this, feel free to call me out! Criticize the shit out of me! I like learning about Greek culture and myths and would 100% love to hear other perspectives on this.
So, a few points about Ancient Greek myths to kind of explain the context around Circe and Odysseus:
Greek myths generally did not have good views/depictions of women. Women were almost always depicted as conniving, selfish, sexually insatiable creatures. To largely summarize the process within actual Greek society, women had three/four stages in their life: child, dangerous/wild virgin (after first menstruation), married woman (whose wildness was tamed by her husband), and then a "real" woman (a mother). There are a few deviations from the "evil" trope, the most prominent of which being Penelope herself—she's basically the ideal Greek wife, staying loyal to her husband for 20 years and all that.
Adultery only applied to women. Husbands cheating on their wives wasn't merely tolerated, but expected. Marital sex wasn't seen as enjoyable, rather something that had to be done for the sake of reproduction and continuing the bloodline/securing inheritance. Men cheated on their wives with various kinds of prostitutes, concubines, mistresses, etc, but sleeping with unmarried women (that weren't specifically prostitutes) or married women was looked down upon. Women didn't have this same standard. They could only sleep with their husbands, hell, their husbands were pretty much the only men they could even interact with (excluding family, obviously).
The original myth has Hermes very plainly lay out how Odysseus' confrontation with Circe will go: Odysseus will eat the moly, draw his sword at her, she'll proposition him, and Hermes directly tells Odysseus to accept. Basically a "sleep with her if you want your men to live" situation. (See this post for more specifics on this).
So, let's apply this to Epic: The Musical. Here's some reasons I think may explain the Circe myth being changed:
The Greek "women being evil" stereotype is... problematic. While I 100% understand that it's important to acknowledge male victims of SA, I don't think the original myth was focusing on Odysseus being a victim—I saw it more of an emphasis on Circe being a sexually selfish woman, as all Greek women were believed to be. Changing Circe to be less conniving and evil deviates from the concerning Greek stereotype.
The SA in the myth is not actually very clearly SA. Yes, with a modern perspective, it absolutely is sexual coercion, but for Greeks, not so much. It made sense to them that sex could be transactional. It's already been established that Epic, while still generally accurate to the original myth, does change things relating to morality/themes in order to better align with modern Western ideas (i.e. OG Odysseus not being as remorseful and merciful, as that was expected of a Greek hero, but Epic Odysseus having more empathy because that's more modernly heroic). If something from the original myth doesn't translate well into modern culture, then it's understandable to want to change or omit it.
In the case that the original Circe myth wasn't SA (I'm not saying one is more right than the other, I'm just covering all the bases), then it wouldn't even constitute as cheating. Like I described earlier, it was perfectly acceptable and expected for men to sleep with women that weren't their wives. Plus, being a goddess, she's already kinda exempt from being blamed if Odysseus slept with her—only women are ever really blamed for sleeping with (or being SAed by) gods, and even then, their husbands sometimes don't even give a shit. But modernly, we would not see it that way. To us, it's not societally acceptable for a married man to sleep with another woman (without his wife's consent, at least). While Ancient Greeks viewed Odysseus as a good (or at least okay) husband, a modern audience wouldn't. Making Odysseus loyal to Penelope and not sleeping with other women (assuming this wasn't SA, but again that's one interpretation) makes him the good, loyal, empathic, modernly heroic man that Epic is clearly aiming for. Repeating my last point: If something from the original myth doesn't translate well into modern culture, then it's understandable to want to change or omit it.
Applying modern perspectives on Ancient Greek society and mythology isn't worth it. Like, we all joke about Ancient Greece being super gay, but they didn't actually like gay men. Homosexuality was literally only acceptable when it was between a young man and a prepubescent boy (it was called pederasty if you want to know more) or between women (they only considered penetrative sex to be 'real' sex so they didn't really care what women did with other women). Y'know the Hades and Persephone story? Like, the original one with the kidnapping? Yeah, that was normal. The myth of Demeter and Persephone is tragic, yes, but it was so normal that wedding ceremonies often included references/recreations of it! Girls got married off ASAP after their first menstruation to men of at least 30 years old. We don't tolerate that shit today (for the most part, at least)! But it was normal in Ancient Greece. Applying modern rules and standards to ancient culture just does not work.
Anyways, I'll shut up now! I'm gonna go keep listening to The Circe Saga lmao
EDIT: there is good criticism in the reblogs of this post that adds more perspective and corrects some of my generalizations/insights!!
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its time for scp required reading... TWO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please for the love of god heed the fucking warnings im so serious . like as much as i want to keep the tone of this post jokey and funny you NEED to heed the warnings on these
ok with that out of the way. read about my blorbos boy
''incident 239-b clef-kondraki'' (general warning for violence and blood/gore) - this one fucks. thats all i have to say about it
''technical issues'' - this one's funny + im biased because i fucking love pat the tech guy
''routine psychological evaluations by doctor glass'' - again i have personal bias about this (<- simon glass enjoyer + host is a glass introj) + this ones funny + if you're more into the fanon versions of the foundation staff this is right up your alley
''tradition'' - halloween party fun :-)
''dr cimmerian hits reply all'' - this is exactly what it sounds like i don't now what to tell you
''stupid cupid / stupid cupid: stop picking on me!'' - my house my rules read about cimmerian and his boytoy
''hawaiian shirts'' - clef fucking Breaks. thats all i can say about this without exploding into viscera
''help me my (love for) my daughter was born too still'' (general warning for mentions of child death) - i have personal bias about this (<- #1 agatha rights enjoyer) but this tale is So Good in general and a super interesting look at how agatha perceives herself and her work/life balance
''so leave yourself alone.'' (warning for graphic depictions of vomit and attempted suicide) - REALLY really really good look at clef kind of dropping his cruel persona and iris' mental health struggles regarding the foundation
''yesterday'' (warning for violence and implied/reference suicide. kind of.) - :-( <- this is the only way i can express my emotions about this tale. anyway it's really good and an interesting way of showing clefs relationships with people
''an apple a day...'' - REALLY good look at how dr glass is as a person and how he acts with people + this entire tale fucks SEVERELY
''personal log of dr gears / personal log of █████ 'iceberg' ████'' - good example of how gears and iceberg both format their documents / how they speak + its vaguely gearsberg + this gives a look at how gears and iceberg met. read the gearsberg tale boy
''portraits of your father'' (warning for graphic alcoholism, suicide, survivors guilt, and blood/gore) - super good look at draven and his relationship with his father, and kondraki's alcoholism, and also talloran is there. also three cheers for dravoran
''life's cold'' - most normal day iceberg has at this fuckass foundation + this is a good look at how iceberg acts and thinks
''fond memories'' (warning for death and body horror) - draven proposes! Draven proposes.
''scp-3999'' (warning for bugs, paranoia, death, body horror, sexual assault/rape, unreality, self harm, and depictions of bodily mutilation) - unironically this one fucks me up so bad its so fucking good dude. go read about james talloran RIGHT NOW
''i stared into the face of everything and nothing and made it back alive'' - this one also fucks me up so bad like i dont even have anything to say. read about talloran and draven RIGHT NOW
''you are at the center of everything that happens to you'' - james talloran talks to himself. kind of.
''a suicide note'' (warning for mentions of rape, child murder, survivors guilt, and suicide) - interesting look at clefs thoughts on him and his work
''date night'' - objectum win! dr alto clef is objectoromantic AND objectosexual! <- that should tell you all you need to know about this one
''scp-4231 / montauk house'' (warnings for graphic depictions of sexual assault, rape, child abuse/neglect, murder, domestic violence, verbal/physical abuse and survivor's guilt) - absolutely gut-wrenching look at alto clef/francis wojciechoski and why he's so fucked up. uh genuinely do read the warnings on this one because when i say graphic i am not exaggerating. all of these things are explored in detail and are genuinely triggering so.
''okay, that's enough, let's get you home'' (warnings for some dubious make-out sessions, (mentioned) suicide, implications of rape/sexual assault, and vomit) - shameless moldhouse plug sorry not sorry. HIGHLY recommend reading this and it's other parts in their entirety because it genuinely drives me up the fucking wall it is So good. i will sing moldhouses praises until my throat goes out. read moldhouse Now
''duke 'till dawn'' - bpd king!!!!! anyway i dont have a lot of thoughts on this its just really good. also i didnt know dracula was an actual scp until i read this which is kind of funny to me
''rights' birthday party'' - my house my rules you're going to read about agatha rights whether you like it or not
''sex at a frigid temperature'' - again, my house my rules. read the depressing gearsberg tale, boy.
''7 things that new level 3 researchers should know'' - i dont have any thoughts on this i just think this one has really cool formatting
''home is where i want to be'' - no greater thoughts this is just really neat i think. also kiryu labs is in it and im biased as fuck
''gentle wings flutter quietly in the dark'' - read about zyn kiryu NOW
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Aang, Psychology, and the Concept of “Running Away” (A Breakdown Of Aang's Trauma Responses)
So, one thing that always kind of threw me off about atla was Aang's ignoration and dismissiveness of the things that have happened to him and continue to happen to him. He never seemed to have any kind of trauma response (besides nightmares).
Recently I've realized that the ignoration is Aang's trauma response, and it runs pretty fucking deep. Aang shows a lot of trauma responses but they are not as noticeable because Aang is also ridiculously good at emotional regulation, to a toxic point imo, and probably due to his upbringing by monks.
Aang, as is pretty well covered by the show, has a problem with trying to 'run away’ from his problems. This steadily stops happening as much throughout Book 2 (though he is learning in Book 1), but what's interesting is, while his tendency to physically run away from problems ends, his tendency to emotionally run away increases.
We go from Book 1 in which Aang confides in Katara about the separation from the monks, to Book 2 in which Aang literally actively rejects attempts at comfort in favor of an emotional shut down, to Book 3 where, after the failed invasion, Aang immediately tries just about anything he can to avoid talking about it.
He's not necessarily 'running away’. He still owns up to his duty and is right on the ball when Zuko shows up to teach firebending. It is not the work he shies from, it is specifically talking about the failure. This is Aang's main trauma response. Before I delve deeper into that though, I want to talk about Aang's other trauma responses that get bypassed thanks to his ability to ignore them.
Quoting ‘What is Child Traumatic Stress’, “Traumatic reactions can include a variety of responses, including intense and ongoing emotional upset, depressive symptoms, anxiety, behavioral changes, difficulties with attention, academic difficulties, nightmares, physical symptoms such as difficulty sleeping and eating, and aches and pains, among others.”
Aang shows almost all of these at one point or another, and typically they show themselves when he finds himself incapable of mentally 'running away.’
Intense and Ongoing Emotional Upset:
I'm mostly eyeing the avatar state episodes. His immediate reaction to traumatic events he is helpless to is explosive anger, but it fails to be ongoing because it is immediately followed by a shut down.
- Aang on Zuko's boat. In this episode, while fighting with Zuko, Aang shows some pretty intense fear and his first (technically second) experience with the Avatar state is for survival and driven by fear (also, notably, a repeat experience of the same thing that caused the actual first experience). Yet, as soon as Aang is off of Zuko's boat, he's melancholy for a hot second and then turns on a dime and starts talking about the adventures they can go on. Avatar State -> Shut Down/dismissing or ignoring the problem.
- Aang at the Southern Air Temple. He starts off in deep obvious denial, like this kid is so obviously blocking. Then he sees Gyatso's body, goes into a rage and grief induced Avatar state, gets pulled out, can no longer use denial as his mental defense, and so once again turns to shut down. He's expressionless as he comes down, and when he's fully out he's just kind of tired and speaks with a soft almost toneless quality. He's admitting to the trauma and yet there's a numb resignation to it. He's not emotionally connecting with it. We see him after with Momo and Appa smiling and just being like “we gotta stick together :)”. That's not the appropriate response to admitting there's only three survivors of your home. Avatar State -> Shut down/dismissal
- Aang and General Fong. Aang experiences an extremely distressing and helpless situation while he watches Katara, one of two whole people in his life, be buried. He goes into a rage induced Avatar state, again, and then literally 'nope's out of the situation with help from Roku. And when he comes back, he shuts down. He doesn't react emotionally, he once again speaks in that soft, even, almost dead tone, apologizes, and dismisses the event. I mean, the way he addresses General Fong, the person who just caused this whole thing, is extremely chill, almost uncharacteristic. Just a simple, “you're out of your mind” with a tone that could make you think he was having a casual conversation with someone who just suggested eating cereal out of a cup. And then he's good! Momo comes back and he smiles and everything is all good again. Avatar State -> Shut down/dismissal.
- Then we have the desert, one of the few times Aang does not shut down immediately, but then it culminates in the Avatar State and he stays like that for a bit but once he comes down, his faces changes again, to what is almost resignation, like he's given up on being mad, which really, he has as we see later. And then the next episode and he's playing in some water, but as soon as Sokka brings up Appa, we see the face and tone that's now kind of familiar: soft, dead, dismissive. He's once again refusing to emotionally connect and is downplaying it. Avatar State -> shut down/dismissal.
Depressive Symptoms/Anxiety:
He shows fits of both, though these aren't as evident because, again, most of the time he's in an emotional block and ignoring the problems. But when he cannot ignore the absence of his lifelong companion, he has a long period of anger followed by a numb depressive state, he literally talks about giving up hope. He is entirely hopeless at this point.
And then when he cannot ignore the Day of Black Sun coming in a few days, his anxiety goes through the fucking roof.
However, these don't last long and that'll connect to me talking about emotional regulation later.
Behavioral Changes:
Aang changes A Lot over the course of the series. Book 1 Aang is very distinct from Book 3 Aang (though we still see the core traits of him throughout). He becomes more hyper focused on doing his duty, tends to fall to the background when he can, generally takes on a much more somber demeanor.
Difficulties With Attention:
This one's not really huge. He has about the same amount of attention focus in Book 3 as he does Book 1, if not improvement.
Nightmares:
I don't think I have to explain this. Aang goes through multiple fits of nightmares.
Difficulties Sleeping or Eating:
Once again, I look to Nightmares and Daydreams, one of the few times Aang is unable to shut down or block. He cannot sleep for the life of him. I have plans to go back and pay attention to eating habits in Book 3 in order to potentially add onto this joke meta, but I would not be surprised if there were signs of a lowered appetite, even if the writers did not intend it.
Aches and Pains:
He doesn't ever complain about this but also like, would he? Even if he was experiencing them? Kid tried to fight people and fly through a storm while newly recovering from a lightning injury. Aang gives no shits.
Then the article also covers childhood PTSD diagnoses which I'd also like to go over real quick. “the child continues to re-experience the event through nightmares, flashbacks, or other symptoms for more than a month after the original experience; the child has what we call avoidance or numbing symptoms—he or she won’t think about the event, has memory lapses, or maybe feels numb in connection with the events—and the child has feelings of arousal, such as increased irritability, difficulty sleeping, or others.”
Most of these I just covered, but I think it's notable that numbness is also mentioned here, the exact symptoms I've been talking about. Avoidant, won't think about it, numb in connection.
And just to be sure that everyone is on board let me go through some other examples of Aang shutting down:
Katara brings up the 100 years and Aang immediately blocks that shit. It's literally too big for him to conceptualize, so he dismisses it as okay because he has a new friend now and moves on and doesn't think about it.
The Northern Air Temple. I think most people agree that the lesson in that episode was wrong. Aang had every right to be angry. There's nothing okay about taking over and destroying 100 year old artifacts of a nearly extinct culture. We see Aang react to this with a numbness. There's even a moment where he's just frozen and uncomprehending. “This place is unbelievable.” “Yeah. It's great isn't it?” “No, just unbelievable.” He reacts with anger later (notably when he feels like he can do something instead of being helpless), and then when he can no longer do anything, he once again just rejects any negative emotional turmoil in favor of that “it's fine” attitude and accepts what the people have done.
Then the desert, one of the few places we don't see him shut down immediately. Except, literally the next episode is all about Aang's hardest shut down yet.
There are other examples but I think you get the point. He does this A Lot.
Okay cool, so we've covered the denial and trauma responses part, but how does emotional regulation play into this?
I'm glad you asked.
So, when I was first considering Aang and this whole thing, I thought Aang exhibited emotional dysregulation, especially in regards to the Avatar State, but then I actually did some learning on emotional dysregulation and realized, actually, no, he doesn't. Emotional dysregulation is mostly characterized by emotional responses being out of proportion with the event, but I think we can all agree, pm every time he goes into the Avatar State, that emotional response is uh, rather warranted. Now, Aang does, in these moments, show the lack of control that can come with emotional dysregulation, but also like, who wouldn't.
Considering Aang's behavior outside of the Avatar State Outbursts, he's actually very good at emotional regulation. Scary good, in fact. Number One in the reasons I say this is everything I said above. The ability to shut down is often an active choice. Aang does not like who he is when he is upset and, outside the initial outburst, has a pretty firm grip on his emotions. He shows anger at times, but they are in appropriate places with more or less appropriate responses.
The Desert stands out so much because Aang loses the control he normally has. This is where we see him lose his grip on himself and he spirals.
He rarely shows grief. During his lessons with the Guru he passes all the chakras with amazing ease because he legitimately is that good at controlling and managing emotions which, like I said at the very beginning, I attribute a lot of that to him being raised by monks. I mean, he's a 12 yr old who is skilled in meditation. I don't think it's a stretch to think the monks taught him other such things.
He doesn't react to small things that would normally piss people off. Examples include The Headband when he gives absolutely zero shits about the bully, and The Southern Raiders where he accepts Katara trying to steal Appa and doesn't react to Zuko mocking him and his culture.
Aang also, paradoxically, can be pretty good at expressing emotions when he needs to. He's typically very emotionally intelligent, with the exception being pretty much any trauma. He will react to basic things in the moment and is unafraid to show frustration or anger or uncertainty, as long as it's Not connected to a thing he is distinctly Not thinking about.
And one of the most damning examples of his emotional regulation skill, that is actually the scene that started me thinking about all of this, is the scene with Koh the Face Stealer.
That scene threw me off so much because I felt like it was incredibly out of character for Aang, this incredibly expressive kid, to be able to show no emotional reaction. It didn't make sense and for a long time I dismissed it as just, the writers thought it'd be cool so he did it. But of course, I can't let things lay, so I never really stopped thinking about it until I realized, in context of everything I've talked about before, it actually makes perfect sense.
Aang is emotionally expressive by choice. He has the ability to control his emotions and responses to a ridiculous degree. He knows how to be emotionally intelligent with basic things, where to express emotion and how to do it.
(Of course, he's not perfect. There are plenty of times he acts out, the Bato episode being the first thing to come to mind, but even there, after just a few hours, he has wrestled with his jealousy and responds appropriately to guilt, he owns up to it. He does try to explain himself but when Sokka makes it clear he's not going to listen, Aang does not continue to press the point. He accepts Sokka's decision, does not lash out, and for once doesn't shut down or exhibit happiness soon after. He is sad and expresses it without shoving his emotions onto others. For a 12 yr old, this is fucking impressive.)
Aang was taught well by the monks, but the one thing they couldn't teach him was response to trauma, and that's where he falters, but that emotional regulation means he's not going to respond in a typical way. Instead, he turns to denial as his coping mechanism of choice and uses those skills he learned to achieve a workable state of being but through unhealthy use.
Where am I going with this? Idk. Nowhere really, I just wanted to talk about Aang and psychology tbqh.
Anyway, I will finish this up by a fun delve into Things He's Probably Going To End Up Suffering From:
Denial can lead to memory blocking, where it's more than just not thinking about it, the brain actively suppresses and alters memory to cope. Adult Aang's recollection of the Ozai year is probably not going to be super accurate. Would not be surprised if someone was like “hey remember that time you were almost executed by a town for your past live’s mistakes?” and Aang just went “No???” and legit has no recollection of any such thing.
Selective numbing will eventually turn into collective numbing. You can selectively numb for a temporary period of time (which is how people fall into the trap) but eventually your brain will start to numb everything, not just the bad things. At the very least teenage Aang absolutely goes through a period of dissociative complete numbness.
Speaking of dissociation, if you're not going to react to trauma the normal way, dissociation happens. It starts as a coping mechanism but like with numbing, it cannot remain controlled and will develop into something. Aang will have a dissociative disorder, I'm telling you. Which one? Idk, but I assure you, it'll be there. I'm leaning toward some basic depersonalization/derealization and/or OSDD type four where trauma and meditation accidentally mix for the worse.
So yeah, there you go, a breakdown of Aang, his trauma responses, his emotional intelligence, and the consequences of those two things put together.
I'm gonna be a nerd here and add shitty citations but this is mostly in case you're also a psych geek and want to read things.
“What Are the Dissociative Disorders”. International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation.
“Developmental trauma: Conceptual framework, associated risks and comorbidities, and evaluation and treatment”. National Library of Medicine.
“What is Child Traumatic Stress”. The National Child Traumatic Stress Network.
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