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royboyfanpage · 2 months

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Okay a post by @mew-poo got me thinking about Titans (1999) #15-#16 again, and I think I noticed something. This may be absolute bs, I haven't slept in two days so I might be doing analysis that doesn't exist, but-

I think Roy is the only one of the fab five who doesn't hold grudges.

Essentially the comics, particularly #15, focus on the fab five being stranded on an island with Gargoyle, who is bringing their personal resentments and grudges to light, causing a lot of tensions between the team. But one thing I've noticed is that the different arguments Roy makes are rarely centred around anything that happened between him and the others off the island. The main issues for him are-

-the current situation, or-

-regarding Lian. Comparatively, the things that the others say to him, such as Garth bringing up his addiction arguably unnecessarily-

-Donna suggesting that Roy's stupid for thinking their relationship will last (and later insulting him for leaving after she said that)-

-and Dick questioning his commitment to the Titans (which I won't post a panel of due to Tumblr photo limit, so imagine it's here), it's clear to see a difference. Despite being on an island intended to highten negative emotions, Roy never actually brings up anything anyone's done in the past (at least not yet) unless he's actively prompted to by someone else, like his defending himself from Dick's criticism-

-and the only time he really brings anything up without a prompt (prior to the end) is STILL in reference to something that was said to him on the island as opposed to years ago.

I think that makes a lot of sense for Roy as a character. He's a very practical man, and so it makes sense that he wouldn't dwell on old grudges compared to current issues he's faced with. It could also, at least partially, explain why it takes Roy so long to recognise that Garth is mad at his teasing. Roy reacts strongly in the moment to issues in his life and relationships rather than letting them brew (at least this era of Roy does, his reactions were different in the Snowbirds era), which may make it harder for him to see that someone *is* harbouring a grudge against him that they haven't acted on- that's just not how his brain works.

And then, there's the moment where Roy does snap.

I don't think that Roy's dialogue here stems from a grudge, and it's not based in negativity. As mentioned earlier in the comic, Gargoyle thrives on negativity, that was what was keeping them in purgatory. However, Roy's rant and punch was what managed to free them. It's not based in bitterness but rather... I guess violently constructive criticism? Roy doesn't like seeing Dick stuck in Bruce's shadow, and his tirade is based in concern for Dick more than anything, a wake-up call. And anything similar to bitterness in this is rather based on the double standards towards Dick- everyone has to walk on eggshells around Dick's issues, whereas Roy's issues are constantly brought up (Roy's addiction is mentioned in almost every comic with him I've read). He's angry that his friends will step in and give *him* a wakeup call, but they let Dick spiral without stepping in.

Anyway I'm very tired and forgot my point halfway through writing this, so do with this as you will and reinterpretations are more than welcome.

#roy harper #arsenal #red arrow #speedy #dc comics #titans #fab five #garth of shayeris #donna troy #dick grayson

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waitmyturtles · 3 months

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Jumping into the Cooking Crush familial fray...

I've lately been a bit behind on all my dramas, but I did see percolating over the weekend a great conversation among drama friends and fiends about interpretations of Asian parenting tactics, family values, interfamily communication, and intergenerational trauma regarding Cooking Crush.

This past weekend's episode 11 seemed to bring up a lot. I feel like one of my Reasons for Being on Tumblr is to share thoughts on Asian family dynamics, structures, and tensions regarding our beloved Asian dramas, so I am simply going to add a few extra thoughts to @neuroticbookworm's absolutely FANTASTIC post here that meditates on the ongoing conflict between Ten and his father.

Before I jump into NBW's amazing post, I want to linky-poo some previous writing that I've done on Asian cultural touchpoints in other shows:

Poor Bad Buddy got the Asian analytical treatment here and here

Only Friends and Mew's lesbian moms being Asian moms first, here

A meditation specifically on BBS's Dissaya and saving face, here (which, in regards to her conflict with Ming, we should note, directly led to her literally sending her son physically away from her to continue the family feud)

When I watch our beloved Asian shows, as an Asian-American, I am clicking unconsciously into certain assumptions about how Asian parents and children WILL behave when parents are called for in a show (I emphasized this specifically in my OF piece about Mew's moms). I expect there to be either filial piety present, or struggles with it. I expect to see elder hierarchy and/or issues with elder respect. I expect to see issues regarding saving face. I expect to see issues regarding conditional love, and how a child should act so a parent may boast and/or save face with their external social circles. I expect to see issues regarding independence and parental control over... just about everything in a child's life, from their education to their partners. (Think of King's parents in Bed Friend, and how his parents were ready to arrange a marriage for him; Tian's parents sending him to America in A Tale of Thousand Stars, etc.)

Shows that DON'T deal with these issues -- shows that have wonderfully understanding parents, like Thun's mom in He's Coming To Me, and Pete's dad in Dark Blue Kiss, are also realistic, because of course, nothing is universal, and there are understanding and unconditionally loving parents in every culture.

But most of the Asian shows that we watch have themes like filial piety and elder respect/control present, and it's up to the show's writers to figure out how these elements play into the plots that they're writing.

Through @neuroticbookworm's post, I see that some in the Cooking Crush fandom are calling for Ten's dad to apologize for his hypocrisy in calling Ten out for hitting Chang Ma, while we have seen Ten's dad slapping Ten.

I want to get into how Ten engages with his father in a second, because it's pretty rare in Asian shows to see a child so directly combative, so consistently, with a parent figure. But before that, NBW makes an excellent point with the following:

But, I understand it when my friends, and Asian characters in TV shows, don’t want to force things out in the open if it can be swept under the rug for the time being, because peace of mind in Asian households is fleeting and you would be wise to take what you get.

This is a very important point that those of us in the social services are hammered with -- in other words, how do individuals, as they are growing up, adjust their behaviors to keep the stability of their family bonds either strong, or at least not weak enough to break? How does a child learn to adapt and/or cope for the sake of the other older individuals in their families who DEMAND compliance with their own emotional needs?

Ten has a combative relationship with his father -- but he's still done everything his father has asked for, save for staying away from Prem. As @respectthepetty previously noted, Fire becomes submissive around pressure and high-tension individuals and situations -- because that's how he's learn to cope vis à vis his mother and his upbringing.

This framing -- these specific, generational, tension-informed family dynamics that we see ad nauseam in Asian dramas -- do not lead to an automatic assumption among Asian audiences that apologies would emanate from the parental generation. Especially because the previous generational paradigm is that children have and should go along with the flow of parental control and demands -- as Ten and Fire have so far done.

In Asian collectivist societies and mentalities -- to combat against that flow of control would lead to a breaking of the peace among the family unit, in NBW's words.

I would even go so far as to say that an apology from a parent is as much of a fictional ending fantasy as a perfect romantic ending. And damn, what we have to go through to get an apology. NBW brought up Double Savage, which was so awfully messy -- we got a parental apology only after a not-at-fault child had to unnecessarily apologize first. The show made the children work beyond basic emotional ethics to get that parental apology. That's how rare it is for us Asians to expect a parent to apologize. (And NBW notes so beautifully that even showmakers themselves may not know how to write apologies -- because they themselves may have never received one in real life.)

Considering all these family dynamics and tensions, getting a 180-degree admission of wrongdoing from an Asian parent is rare. And part of the fabric of the lives of us Asians is in sharing stories with our communities about the tensions, the trauma, the misunderstandings that we've faced from our families to be perfect and obedient in all aspects of our lives, as NBW so eloquently says about her country's culture, which includes tremendous control over the sexual lives of children. That's why I go to Asian shows over Western media -- so that I can experience some of that communing over commonalities in fiction.

I want to make one final quick point about Ten's behavior towards his dad, which we see is abrupt and combative. Ten's got some gumption to talk to his father like that, which, me likey, but it's rare to see in Asian shows. Of utmost importance to note is that their history is marked by a severely traumatic event in the death of Ten's mom, which is guaranteed to have had a lifelong impact on the bond between Ten and his dad, and colors their relationship. I know that's obvious by way of the dialogue, but what we see in this outburst is a kind of marked ending to a journey map of his life's experience that got him to the point of the fight. (@neuroticbookworm, I'm stealing your screenshots, thank yew, friend!)

This fight had A LOT IN IT. It was about saving face, about the embarrassment that Ten's dad knows the slapping event will cause on Ten and Ten's friends (and, frankly, Ten's dad himself). It was about Ten's childhood trauma in losing his mother and his anger with his father for his father's actions. It was a revelation that Ten's dad had actually acted, in his own way, and failed at saving Ten's mom. It was about Ten's performance in school, and how Ten says that he has indeed been keeping up with his father's standards. And a whole lot more.

I'm betting money on at least some people -- maybe many people -- in Asian audiences watching this and being critical of Ten for being so combative to his father, his father being Ten's provider for education and money. THIS CRITICISM IS VERY COMMON.

While Western fandoms may celebrate performances of individualism and confrontation, many in Asian audiences will not agree with that. They will see Ten being disrespectful to a parental figure that, in our cultural mores, would arguably automatically demand respect from the start through our notions of elder respect and hierarchy.

This is, in part, because many Asians see going against the flow of familial peace as disruptive. And, anthropologically -- who are we in the West to judge that?

That's why this scene is SO FUCKING HUGE. As an American, I'm like, fuck yeah, read this fucking dad out for filth. As an Asian, I'm like, WHOAAAAAAAAAA. For real.

AND? THE ENDING of this fight -- with Ten's dad making one actually good point about how Ten's punch will affect his friends?

That's collectivism again. That's Ten's dad helping Ten to grow in that moment and recognize that Ten's actions affect other people. That shit is complicated, and I believe it's 100% intended to be complicated.

The dad is still clearly a hypocrite. I do not think that we get that entire fight scene without the show commenting on Ten's dad's hypocrisy that one's actions have impacts on others. Ten's dad is not clicked into his own collectivism, and I believe the show calls him out for it. If that scene only wanted to call out Ten -- we would have only seen that last part about Prem and Prem's friends. We would not have gotten all that other backstory, all the threads in this incredible fight scene.

It was a hell of a well-done scene. And I very much believe that scene is symbolic of this entire show -- marketed as a comedy, friends! -- being insidiously about very complicated family bonds, and depicting the struggles of these bonds just brilliantly.

This show is DIGGING THE HELL into the family backgrounds of characters experiencing tremendous life changes -- including MEDICAL STUDENTS! THE CREAM OF THE CROP FOR ASIAN PARENTS! -- and showing how these pressures can make young adults crumble or resilient.

I didn't mean to write so long, but alas -- y'all talk about Asian families, and I gotta yap. Thank you for letting me throw some coins in the pot, and to offer some thoughts about what us Asians are clicking into in our beloved Asian shows.

Tagging @lurkingshan, @bengiyo, @respectthepetty, @heretherebedork, and @williamrikers for enlightening convos this weekend, and many thanks to my dear Asian friendo @neuroticbookworm for one hell of a meditation that I enjoyed and related to deeply.

#cooking crush #cooking crush meta #cooking crush the series #cooking crush the series meta #offgun #off jumpol #gun atthaphan #tenprem #ten x prem #prem x ten #asian family dynamics #asian family structures #intergenerational trauma in asian families #intergenerational trauma #long post

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